EP71: How Jeff Eliminated Chronic Shoulder Pain

One of my favorite clients, Jeff, speaks truthfully about his experience with chronic shoulder pain and how he got rid of it in a matter of weeks with our help.

Jeff had tried almost everything you can think of, from physical therapy, massage, acupuncture, chiropractic care.

Yet for more than 30+ years, many of his pain remain unresolved.

Knowing Jeff for more than a couple years now, we’ve continued to build our relationship and Jeff has completely revolutionized his life, changed his lifestyle and habits to remain in control of his pain forever.

I really value lifelong friendships with my clients, and this podcast episode is a reflection of the relentlessness needed to achieve their pain relief goals along with what I feel is the most superior form of healthcare out there specifically for those in pain.

Transcript

0:02

All right. So welcome to the Won Body Won Life Podcast. Hi, I'm your host, Dr. Jason Won, Lifestyle Physical Therapist. As you guys know, I speak about everything in regards to helping people live a pain free life, but also helping them to get stronger, more mobile, more resilient, and also take the actions necessary to develop better habits and a better lifestyle. To serve them with all the activities and things that they want to do. And I'm just very blessed to be in this situation where I've been running, I've had this business and I've been helping clients for well over five years now. And I've worked with some very very knowledgeable, very intelligent, but just very empathetic and very good people. And today I have actually one of my clients that I've been working with for quite some time now. His name is Jeff Redman. And just very happy to have developed a. Strong friendship and to help you with a certain ailments in life. But Jeff, how are you doing, man? I'm doing great. Thanks. Yes. You definitely have helped me with ailments. Absolutely. Jeff, just to start off this conversation, tell people a little bit about yourself, what you do for a living. And I guess what kind of precipitated you to want to seek out help? Oh, gosh. So what I do, so I'm a forensic accounting expert. I, I have a desk job. Basically, I sit for very long periods of time and over the years that's caused some problems. I originally sought you out because I was having a rotator cuff problem or shoulder problem with my left arm. Over the years, when my son was in little league, I heard it years ago. And then I went through some rehab and it got better. Then it came back and then it's some rehab and it got better. And the third time around, It wasn't getting better. I'd done all the exercises that I'd learned from all the other physical therapists I'd seen over a decade and it just wasn't getting better. And it got so bad I couldn't even wash my hair, couldn't lift my arm, and it just, it wasn't usable. And that's when I found you and contacted you. Perfect. Yeah, I know that when you when people first start off, they either find me through Yelp or Google. I believe you found me through my Yelp page, saw a number of reviews. And you're like, I remember you saying something. You're like, Hey, these reviews seem almost Too good to be true. And I feel like I've heard that a lot and I don't know, and as a friend, as you and your job, you always approach things with a sense of skepticism. I'm just curious. Can you tell people about like your mindset going into the conversation prior to us prior to us working together? Yeah, definitely. As you said, I'm skeptical about everything. I don't believe anything until I see the data or the backup for it. Whether it's my client giving it to me or the other side giving it to me, I test everything. So when I saw your reviews, I thought, Oh, my God, this guy, this can't be true. And then I was looking on your website and there's a lot of, I thought maybe a little too salesy related stuff on the website for a healthcare practitioner. And, but then I just couldn't get past the dozens and dozens of comments from people. And I thought gosh, this guy's, got to know what he's doing. And I just took the leap of faith if you will. And I'm very happy I did. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And and it was great feedback. Currently kind of refining things and making sure that it's a balance between you got to make a living as a physical therapist and a coach. So you got to promote yourself to some degree from a sales perspective, but at the same time the reviews for my end and. The way that I coach my clients specifically it helps to deliver lifelong results. Yeah, as, as far as so fast forward, we took the next steps to working with each other. What was what did that kind of look like? I know that even you doing things even in person and you've tried PTs, I think it was. How many PTs or how many people did you end up seeing prior? Just for this one issue over the years, probably three or four different folks. I was at I'd call it chiropractors. I saw ortho guys. I saw physical therapists. I saw a bunch of different people and I got, pretty much the same exercises from all of them. And it, over time, they just stopped working and, it just wasn't wasn't strengthening enough of the shoulder, I think, to really solve the problem. Just the same old, outbound this way, inbound that way. I forget. There's a couple others that I can't remember what they are now, but it some of those exercises just weren't really cutting it. But yeah, I think over the years with all my different sports related injuries, I've probably seen 20, 25 different physical therapists. Yeah. And I think that every physical therapist that I can't speak for the other ones. Looks like you cut out. Am I still here? Oh, now I didn't hear anything after I can't speak for the other ones. Then you can. Oh yeah. So I was just saying that I can't speak for other physical therapists. Some are just doing it for a paycheck and they're not in a job that they enjoy. Some are actually really good. And they're just in a setting that they can't really perform at the level that they want to. I felt that when I was working at another large clinic I felt like I had a lot of. for it. I had a lot of passion for what I did, but I was just stuck in a situation that I couldn't give people the type of care that I wanted to. So that's what kind of brought me and you together. Can you share a little bit about what that kind of looked like from even an online perspective, something that also you're a little bit skeptical about. And it was just a thing where you're like, Hey, this is different, but I'm going to take a shot at it. Can you share people about that experience from from the virtual side of things? Sure. Yeah. I was very hesitant about the virtual side of things at first. I was like, how can help me fix my shoulder if you're not going, if you're not here to touch it, feel it, see it, feel the pops it was making and the crunches that happen every time I move my arm. But in the very first, I think one of the first calls. And I also had this skepticism about do I need surgery or not, right? Do I, I didn't want to spend the money to go see you and go through the program, whatever that was at the time, X weeks and then have to have surgery and then pay somebody else to do physical therapy all over again. And one of the things I was very impressed with. And talking to you about that was that you ran me through a series of fairly simple movements and exercises at a point where literally I couldn't raise my arm without feeling like somebody was stabbing me with a knife. And you, I think, can deduce that from what I could and couldn't do, that you didn't think I was, a candidate really for needing surgery that, Through strengthening and movement exercises that we could get the, my arm back to where it needed to be. One, I really liked hearing that because I've always been very anti doctor. No offense. But I, for years I've had, multiple issues. And, seeing multiple doctors, especially when I had a back injury way back when and just got a different answer. Every time I saw somebody, I just got a distrust for the medical profession, if you will. Finally, I met, it got my back fixed, and that was probably the best decision I ever made. Followed number two by you finding you on my shoulder. But yeah, it's the whole process is. Fraught with uncertainty, right? And somebody who just wants to see data, which is my, my my world view. It's a leap, if you will, to sign on with someone for sure. And so when we first started, and we started off with those simple movements, what did you start to notice after we started to? Even let's say like one to four weeks into the program. What sort of results did you start to notice? Oh, I was seeing results almost immediately. It was funny. I really, cause some of the exercises. All the exercises were different from what I used to do, but you could tell some of them were on the same plane, if you will, or the same kind of grouping or like style exercises. But following through on some of the stuff you were telling me, I was immediately, I started, I was able to wash my hair with two hands, able to pick things up. There were still things for, I think many weeks where I was still getting a nice little shock of pain every now and then, but Or a clunk or a crunching or whatever, but the pain was going away pretty quickly and going away fairly consistently week after week. Yeah there was also focus on just a couple of things. We started to really focus on spine mobility, how, I told you that spine mobility and how it inter interacts, the rib cage interacts with the shoulder blade. And and I explained a lot. And one thing that I really love and I pride myself on it is not just giving you the exercise, but explaining the, what the, how the, why behind it. So as far as from like a knowledge perspective, how do you feel overall now with Kind of the knowledge you've gained, but also some of the exercise that work pretty quickly. Yeah, it's night and day. It's it's so funny. I think the, you hit the nail on the head there. The mobility is so crucial anymore. I can tell now if I sit for any length of time and say, for example, I'm on a deadline, I got a report due or a trial or something like that. And I'm working, until 10 or 11 o'clock every night. I can tell my body can tell when I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing and I start doing some, especially spine upper back and lower back mobility things. And I can snap myself out of it pretty quickly. It's, I feel like I've learned more about how my body works and what it takes to keep it moving from you and, how it's supposed to move. Even the first, several months, let alone today that I learned from all my other physical therapists and doctors put together over 40 years of 50 years of, no, wait, how old am I, call it 45 years of sports related injuries. I just feel like it's been an answer to prayer, if you will, that we. Came to work together and now I feel like I, I understand what has to happen when I wake up. If I wake up, which I'm not doing anymore. I used to wake up every now and then with a neck kink so bad. I couldn't turn my head for 3 days. And now if that happens, which it rarely does anymore. I know how to fix it. It's, it's just a totally different, it's like the user manual you never got for your body. Yeah, for sure. And the other piece that I think has really helped you and what I think you did extremely well in is making exercise a part of your life rather than exercise. as a means of, like, when down, then I decide to do a lot of people o to the pain, they get an And then they do something about it that ultimately was where we started. Your left shoulder was in pretty debilitating pain. You reacted. You sought out somebody to help you with it. Now we started to really push towards, as you can see with some of your routines that were in your program, the shoulder habits habits that it doesn't matter how you're feeling. You just do it, right? It's just a part of your life. How was that process of Did you feel like I pushed you too hard in that sense to where I was like, Hey, this is not just exercises. This is something that you innately make a part of your day. So how did that kind of affect you as far as like when we started talking about the habits? It was huge, right? Cause as you, you nailed it there that, I was in the, I just work a lot, right? I was in the, you work late all the time, sit at a desk all day. And then you do something when you have to, right? When my back's hurting or my shoulder's hurting, then I start exercising again. And then you asked me a really interesting question early on about my, why, what, why am I really here? And the answer I think was at the time that, I've got we've got one child he's now 29 years old. But I wanted to be able to do the things that he asked me to do with him. Whether it's mountain biking, on a double black diamond at North Star, or skiing a double black diamond mogul run and in Colorado, whatever it is, if he's asked me to do it, I'm going to do it, right? That's just how I want to spend my life. I want to spend time doing, doing the things my kid asked me to do. And I was finding that I wasn't really I was going the wrong direction, right? I was being able to do less and less instead of more and more. And I do feel like, there's incorporating movement into my lifestyle. Now, even on days where I can't get to the gym, I'm doing something right. One of the things we talked about is I do some balance work. I'll brush my teeth on one leg. Pretty much all the time, and I don't, I half the teeth on one leg, half the teeth on the other leg, or when I'm sitting at the microwave, waiting for something or waiting for something to come off the oven or whatever, I'll do some pushups against the Island, or I'll do some squats, or I'll do some lunges, or I'll do some rotational work. Pushing a cart in the grocery store, I'm stretching my ankles and my toes and my maybe some lunges of the cart. I'm just always doing something now and it's made a big difference. Before bed, I'll do, certain things now, which I never did, in the old days, but I'll do some spine mobility stuff before I go to bed. And you also taught me one of the things to put the foam roller in front of the TV. But I come downstairs if I want to watch the movie at night or whatever, I get the foam roller out or I get the kettlebell out and do, some swings or. So passes around the body or whatever while I'm watching and that's my, my payment, if you will, for the TV time. Even if I don't, like I said, get to the gym for an hour, workout that day, I'm doing something every day and it's made a huge difference. I'm thankful that you have literally incorporated things that I do in my own life. I always try to lead by example through, I told you, I'm like, I do things at Costco. I do things at Trader Joe's. I do things. When no other person in the building is doing those things. And, when it comes to us taking care of our bodies, I do think that you should be okay with being the peacocks in the room. We should be the ones that are like saying, Hey, if everybody else is on their computer, just chugging away for eight to 10 hours. You should be the one that's being willing to flail your arms around, do some shoulder work, do some upper body work. And you be the one that stays pain free. You're the one that stays mobile. While, while everyone else, you separate yourself from the grain of the group. I guess with that being said there's an analogy that I like to use around, all the work that you put in so far, Jeff. So you're looking at lunges at Costco and you're doing kettlebell passes. Watching, watching the playoffs and watch, watching sports events. It's like you investing a dollar into your brokerage account, right? It's Oh, a dollar really doesn't feel like much, right? You just did a few lunges, but you're looking at how that compound over time, we know that a dollar over a year. It doesn't do much, right? But then you're looking at 5, 10, 15, and you do that over a 8 to 10 year span, what does that end up with? It ends up with a pretty hefty nest egg, which, translating that to the human sense, that's a body that's still able to do the things you love into your 60s and 70s and 80s, right? So again, I'm just very proud of you for taking the willing or being willing to incorporate the craziness of the way I coach and to ultimately put that into your, to your life. With that being said there, there was an incident that you actually had, and if it's okay to bring this up, it was the incident where don't know how it happens, but you're You're literally saving someone's life at the skier. And do you mind sharing with people what that kind of look like and that, that time where you're grabbing onto a guy for dear life? Yeah. I had to think about it for a second. I wasn't sure what you were talking about. I just had a a weird situation recently. I went to Colorado to ski with my son for a week. And he had to end up go back for a work thing. He took off and I'm skiing on my own on kind of a, one of the lifts that serves some advanced terrain. But anyway, so everybody on this lift theoretically should be a pretty decent skier and I'm second from the left chair, I think as a four, four person chair and the guy to my left just lined up in a weird spot and he ended up getting hit. In the back or in the butt, if you will, with the arm of the chair, instead of, being able to sit down, it launched him forward. And then he almost really dove on my lap. And so now I'm he's laying on me holding on. So I grab hold of him. And next thing his skis, the lifts moving forward, the lifting, can't stop it very quickly. And his skis are dragging behind him or be under the chair, if you will. And he's laying on me, but then since the lift didn't stop, When the platform that you stand on falls away, right? That doesn't last forever. When it fell away, all his body weight now is on my knees. And it started to pull me off the lift and which he did, he pulled me off the lift and we're now, maybe call it three feet, four feet in the air, something like that. And I did a somersault chair, hits me in the back of the head. Luckily we're in a helmet and then we just end up in this sprawl in the dirt, if you will, off to the side of the lift and he's I think, panicking a little bit that other people are going to come behind us and run into us. So he's like trying to get up and he's hitting me with the skis and his poles. And anyway, it was a mess. And at the time, I didn't think anything was wrong, right? So finally the lift stops, the lifty comes over, helps get us up and asks if anybody's hurt. No, I'm not hurt, fine. But later that night, I'm going back to Denver to fly home, and I'm in my son's garage and I go to pick up just a lightweight carry on. And I get a sharp pain in my shoulder again, almost back to the old days. Just stabbing horrible pain. And I was like, Oh my God, after all this time that we've spent together, my injuries back and I did some things right off the bat, some movement, some light stretching, just trying not to over overstimulate it. And I think I got ahold of you the next day. Cause I, I then went straight to the airport and got on a plane. The next day it was still very painful. And through, some coaching. With you on some, especially some upper back mobility, some thoracic mobility exercises and a handful of other more kind of shoulder specific things within three days, maybe two and a half days, pain is gone and it was, I couldn't hardly lift my arm again. It was just bad. And it just, Popped away and it just went away as quickly as it came. And that's unusual for me, right? It used to be unusual for me, right? When I get something, it would last a long time and now it's feel, I feel like I've got the tools and when I don't have the tools, I've got you who can give me some insight into, some other things to try, I immediately went to shoulder stuff that you've given me. I didn't really think about the upper, thoracic, thoracic mobility. And I think that made a huge difference. Yeah, for sure. And it's just great to have that type of open communication between clients, and the coach. What I actually really value a lot is always being always being there, right? I have, we have a community, we have direct access to speaking with me. And that was something that I didn't have when I worked at my previous job, which was. 20 physical therapists, over a thousand patients at any point in time. And patients that I saw, if I saw you there, I would see you maybe one session. And then the next session, I can't see you for three, four weeks. And then you're really not checking your emails because you're really just moving on to the next one. And whenever you get a cancellation, I'm like, I was always just pushed to see another person. But I really appreciate the way that I've built things out, from the online perspective is, it's just giving people, unrelenting permission to message me at any time build more of a friendship, rather than just like a professional client to coach relationship. And I know that we still have that, but like I said I've considered a lot of my clients. Good long term friends now. And I guess, when it comes to your perspective as the client, Jeff how important is that to you to, build rapport build, long term trust build a relationship with a client rather than I guess you said you were You're anti doctor and I get that because sometimes it's impersonal. Sometimes it's just like quick check ins. They're not even like looking at you, but I guess tell people a little bit about maybe the relationship that we've built over the past many months. Yeah I think it's amazingly helpful to answer your kind of really simple question. It's gosh, I run into a lot of issues. I still, I'm very active water skiing, snow skiing, biking, and just all kinds of stuff. And it's amazing how many things can go, can, hurt the bod when it should get, 60 something. But it's It's very helpful to have somebody that you trust that you can call or text or, get it, get on a the zoom meetings, the coaching meetings and get some insight, right? It's just, there's so many different things that I never would have thought that upper back and thoracic mobility would have been a shoulder issue. It would have, cause some of my shoulder problems, but the more I work on that, the better my shoulders feel. It's really. I never would have gotten there without having somebody like you to really direct me there, if you will. Yeah, for sure. I guess to start, looking and wrapping things up, I appreciate your time here. What are, I'm going to put you on the spot what are maybe like one or two of the absolute biggest principles that you've taken from me during our time working together that you can share with the audience that can help somebody with either severe pain, some sort of chronic pain, some sort of injury that they can't overcome. Take your time, maybe you can give one or two insights that I think will give value. That'd be greatly appreciated because I feel like I've taught you a lot of things. Okay. Yeah. There's all kinds of stuff, but the thing that popped into my head when you first asked that was You had a little saying for me early on because, I was like, Hey, I work all the time. I don't have time for the gym, a lot of excuses, right? And you said something along the lines of you either makes, make time for your health today, or you'll make time for your disease or injury tomorrow. And it really stuck with me that yeah, you really do have to put in the time and, I'm very good at excuses because I do have a that requires me, To work at some crazy hours. But if you don't take the time you're going to pay for that. And I read a book years ago that said, it basically said you're either decaying or you're growing every day. There's no middle ground. And that kind of fit along with everything you were teaching me. And you did you, you pushed me in areas like that, gently, but still firmly to get out of my excuse realm and focus on doing something every day. And it's not just one time during the day, right? Every time you have a few minutes, like when I go get water, I have a thing. Now I do squats. When I get back into my office and I do 20, 20, just body weight squats. When I get it, when I come back to my office, that's just something I do to, get my body moving a little bit and counteract the sitting all day let alone with other things that I might do throughout the day, but. That's probably the biggest thing was make time now, stop making excuses and then the the constant do something, some kind of movement all the time, right? You're never. You don't have to restrict your kind of exercise to the gym. I put together a small, home gym, just with some dumbbells and a bench and stuff. So I could do some things here, but also just, movement related things. It doesn't have to be weightlifting. Any kind of movement stuff is good. Oh, and that's something else you said a second ago, which I wanted to comment on was. Within the app, I love the fact that it tells you, for example, like I did, I did my upper body, my lower body workout yesterday and it gave me the, this kind of personal best for the day and it said through this range of exercise, you lifted, 3000 pounds or whatever it was. I was like, wow. That sounds really impressive, right? I didn't feel three sets of 12 or 15, whatever it was for that one, but it adds up to real weight. And even though you don't feel like you're, killing yourself, think about how, just for that one exercise, they lifted 3000 pounds yesterday. Yeah. And, we did it with, there's probably 15 exercises in my routine, but it just was shocking to me. I never really paid much attention to the little badges, but it really is interesting and motivating that you're doing something for your body that you wouldn't be doing otherwise. Yeah, for sure. And I guess I can bring you into a second point. One, I agree with that. I remember when I said that, like enough with your excuses yeah, you just got to get in it. You are, you're prioritizing your work over your health and you just got to carve out the time. So if you're not doing things today, you're you're I think I said, if you're not making a date with the gym or with your exercise today, you're making a date with the hospital or you're making a date with like future disease later on. But yeah, the last thing that you said was just in regards to that app tracking your workouts, right? Logging your workouts because it's like you signing a contract yourself. You're seeing the growth over time. You see that. Okay. But the first time I did this exercise, I only lifted, a couple thousand pounds. This time lifting over 3000, you're hitting personal best, you're getting stronger. And I am a person that tracks everything. Tracks my workouts. Tracks. So if you track things what can't be measured can't be managed. So tracking it will allow you to make measurable growth in your life. And lastly, I can end it with yeah, motion is emotion. And when you put motion into your body, when you Excel and you make it a habit emotionally, you're just. You're just way more satiated. You're happier. You're more fulfilled when you're not moving. You're generally, you're stagnant, your lymphatic system, stagnant, you're sadder, you're more anxious. You're just more stressed out when you curl up into a ball and you just sit there. So nonetheless, can't stress it to you enough that if there's one person that I can think of, that's a Testament to somebody that just sat still, sat long hours, just prioritize their work over anything, that's a testament. But then became a person, a creature of habit that just loves to move all the time. Look no further than Jeff. You're definitely a person that's Completely revolutionized the way that you think about your health, the way that you move. And I really hope that again, that you're sharing this message with other people and, just hopefully, yeah. Whatever I teach to you, don't hold it to yourself. Definitely share it with others as well. With that being said, Jeff, I don't know if there's anything else that you want to add value to or anything else that you want to leave the audience with. I think that ought to be it. I guess I'd say from an extreme skeptic. I am very happy that I made the decision to, to sign on with you. Like I said, I think I've learned more from you than I've learned from all the other doctors and physical therapists that have seen my whole life for, 20 different other injuries. I understand so much more about the body now and about, habits just ways to keep the body healthy. It's it's been huge for me. Thank you. Yeah, no problem. I guess for other people that may be skeptics of I, I guess programs that are seemingly, I guess they're far fetched or maybe they're very different from your traditional. Physical therapy. What? What would you say to that person that has like similar thoughts going into this as well? Same thing as you? Yeah, I think it's easy to be skeptical, right? Especially like I said, if you've had experiences with doctors in the past that hasn't solved your problem, it's easy to become skeptical. For me, though, I think the fact that there were so many reviews for you and your team and they were all just glowing. I was like how can that many reviews not have some validity? And now I'm just one of them. So it's I would say take the leap. But you got to do the work. It's not going to, there's times where I get really busy and don't do things and I end up paying for that later. Like I've noticed even my concentration, because a lot of the work that I do is I liken it to, a 10, 000 piece puzzle where you're missing 200 pieces or 2000 pieces and you don't have the box to even know what it's supposed to look like. I'll just get a ton of data from clients and I've got a, Sift through it and figure it out and figure out what it tells us. And I'm finding if I'm not exercising, but that creativity side, that, that focus is not there as well. And sometimes I'll notice that on my wheels are spinning a little bit at work and I'm like, you know what, I haven't exercised in two days and I started exercising and I'll get back to the gym and makes a huge difference to just my mental clarity is massively different when I'm exercising than when I'm not. And that, that, that's been a huge. Benefit for me that I never counted on, I counted on being able to fix the pain and, get some movement back in my body, but the mental side of it was not expected. Yeah. I think you opened up another conversation for just the benefits of strength training and mobility and any movement in general for your brain secreting a specific compound called myokinase that allows Greater neurotransmission of different thoughts across your head. So when you're not moving, yeah you're getting overall less blood flow to your brain and therefore you feel more stagnant. But yeah I think that, that is why I'm a big proponent of strength training because I know the benefits, not just cardiovascular, but to your brain health, to literally every aspect of what makes you human from your longevity to you wanting to stay active with your son for as long as possible but just in general, just to enjoy life and not have. Not have to say no to any activities. I think that's definitely what you achieve, Jeff. I guess with that being said just want to end this year and for anybody here that, may be interested in working with us or maybe is skeptical or maybe wants to know what we're about. Definitely. You can always just go to my website, flexwithdoctorjay. com. Check us out on Yelp as well. Or you text me but we have a number 415 965 6580. Feel free to text and ask us questions on anything that you want, or if you feel like you want to work with us, definitely jump on a conversation with our team and see how we can help you. With that being said, I just want to end you guys with a quote that I always use. We only have one body, one life, make every action you take be one that makes you a better version of you. Take care. And thank you, Jeff, so much for your time. Appreciate you. Thanks. Take care.