Preserving Biodiversity: A Conversation with Vikram Krishna of Sacred Groves

In this episode, we embark on a compelling exploration of an innovative solution that stands at the forefront of biodiversity conservation. With organisations worldwide embracing carbon offsetting, we focus on an inspiring alternative — Sacred Groves. The co-founder, Vikram Krishna, takes us through this revolutionary initiative, showcasing how it intertwines technology, community engagement, and a fresh perspective on protecting natural habitats.

Key Takeaways:

1. Beyond Carbon Offsetting: Explore Sacred Groves as a transformative approach beyond traditional carbon offsetting. Learn how this initiative pioneers a unique model, leveraging technology and community involvement to safeguard our planet's biodiversity.
2. The Role of the Sports Industry: Dive into the intersection of biodiversity preservation and the sports industry. Discover the potential for influential change as Vikram Krishna unravels actionable steps for individuals, companies, and athletes to contribute to sustainability.
3. Conservation Commerce: Vikram shares insights into the concept of Conservation Commerce, urging businesses to integrate nature into their value propositions. Gain valuable perspectives on how companies like Pyaarnation and W.Salamoon lead the way in environmental impact.
4. Local Community Engagement: Understand the significance of involving local communities in conservation efforts. Vikram sheds light on the efforts made to raise awareness and ensure the well-being of ecosystems while avoiding conflicts.
5. Technology's Role: Explore the integration of technology in Sacred Groves, from cloud-native infrastructure to blockchain. Learn how these elements create transparency, traceability, and an engaging platform for individuals and companies to monitor their impact.
6. Individual and Industry Impact: Vikram inspires individuals and companies to lead by example. Discover how the sports industry, with its massive following, can drive positive change by incorporating sustainability into various aspects, from merchandise to event hosting.

Reflecting on these takeaways, it becomes evident that Sacred Groves provides a visionary path forward, inviting us all to contribute to a greener, more sustainable future. Subscribe, share, and leave a comment to join us on this impactful journey.

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Transcript

Sid: 0:05

Hello, and welcome back to season two of the Pre Zero Sports Talk podcast. I'm your host, Sid Bensalah, and I'm thrilled to kick off this season with a topic of immense significance for our environmental journey. Today's episode explores the impactful world of biodiversity preservation and ecological action, marking the beginning of an exciting season. Joining us is a remarkable guest, Vikram Krishna. Co founder of Sacred Groves.

Vikram: 0:33

You have organizations and people who would plant a few trees and take pictures and put it up on their sustainability reports claiming that they've done a fantastic job. That's not the case. We need to get a little bit more ambitious, as ambitious if we are about our revenues, cost, profitability, and, Shareholder value creation. We need to have the same level of ambition for nature as well.

Sid: 0:53

Sacred Groves is on a mission to protect our planet's biodiversity habitats, offering a unique and practical approach that we believe stands out as a powerful alternative to carbon offsetting. As we unravel the layers of this conversation, we'll also explore the connections between biodiversity preservation and the sports and events industry. How can these sectors collaborate to make a meaningful impact on our planet? Vikram, welcome to the show.

Vikram: 1:23

Hey, say hi delighted to be here today and thanks for inviting me.

Sid: 1:27

Great. What inspired

sid_1_01-19-2024_110855: 1:28

you?

Sid: 1:29

The creation of Sacred Groves and its unique value proposition, which I believe is the approach to environmental conservation.

Vikram: 1:37

Actually, my participation in this area is deeply personal. I. Over the years we've been traveling to different parts of the planet and obviously nature for me was a big part of that. So what I saw, particularly in the last decade and a half is that whichever part of the world I was traveling to I saw a rampant destruction of nature. And unfortunately the past five to six years it was getting worse and worse. Yeah. My wife and I, and a friend of mine, we decided that we have a choice to make, which is to either accept it or do something about it. So we actually visited a sacred forest and in Meghalaya in India. And we were escorted in by a local who introduced us to what a sacred forest is. And that reverence with which he introduced that forest made us realize that, as urban folks. We've lost a bit of a connection with nature now over the years. So we said that what if we create a mechanism or a pathway where people like us, who in, London or Helsinki, or Chicago or Singapore, Dubai or Mumbai how can we get, involved more proactively with nature? Because I know about where you are, but where I'm at. The nearest forest is a few hundred miles away. So how can we bridge that connection? How can we make the participation in nature a lot more structured and transparent and interesting and engaging? So that was broadly the inspiration behind it. And actually, to be honest we started off by just wanting to buy our own forest and letting it be. So when we embarked on that journey, we realized that it is. Not that easy. And we were also delighted by the fact that in that journey, several people came across, what we're trying to do, and said we'd love to get involved. So therefore that led to the creation of Sacred Groves and its structure. And of course we'll talk more about that.

Sid: 3:31

Good. And how does your approach to biodiversity conservation differ from traditional methods?

Vikram: 3:37

When you look at nature and biodiversity I think we need to start with some facts. So if today's podcast is about 25 to 30 minutes. So in this 25 to 30 minutes, almost 300 acres of. Forests would be lost forever. So put it, to put it in the context of a sport industry, every 5.4 odd seconds, a soccer field equivalent of forests and natural habitats are getting destroyed. Yeah. So when you look at why is nature getting destroyed? And I belong to originally the world of capital, so I moved from financial capital to national capital. So my point of view always is oriented a little towards economics. So when you look at the economics of a forest the only way today where one can extract any form of a commercial value from a forest is by its destruction. So timber land for commercial use. Yeah. That or ecotourism. These are all activities which, one can argue impact nature negatively. Of course there are some good work happening to blend it in, but that's a separate topic. But, so what we are trying to establish is how can we create economic models that let nature be let the forest remain the way it is and the governments and local community and the region, how can we produce economic value so that they benefit from it and continue supporting forest in their pristine farm? So that's the genesis of what we are trying to do there are various approaches that we follow. The first approach is tokenization. Our platform is called Sacred Groves. Sacred Groves.earth is the website, and you can also download our apps on the app store. So what we essentially do is that we identify old growth forests in different parts of the world, which are up for sale at the moment. So they are up for sale for commercial exploitation, right? And so we've got two forests in the UK and you've got one forest in Canada. The forest in the UK are oak woodlands, and the forest in Canada is a part of UNESCO biosphere that connects a freshwater lake to the North Atlantic Ocean. So these were, treasured natural assets that were up for sale and whoever bought them had the ability to commercially exploit them the way they preferred. So when Sacred Groves bought this over, what we've done is we've created using technology or digital twin of the platform and tokenized the forest. Yeah. And each of these tokens, which are essentially conservation tokens. Are then placed on the blockchain for transparency and traceability purpose it costs$50 for a 10 year period to support. So imagine like a Lego brick structure you can support one or 10 of thousands if you're a, if you're a corporation. And in turn when you download the app, you're able to see exactly where the forest is. You can see how well it is doing. We put pictures of the forest. So we have third party organizations that visit our forest from time to time and put out reports of biodiversity and how nature is being preserved and what actions do we need to take. So all of those assets are then available to our guardians which is people who support us and, and then we built some really interesting features into it as well, so you can so we just finished the end of the year. So Sacred growth clusters have been gifted for Christmas and New Years. People gift us for birthdays, anniversaries companies are gifting us as a corporate gift, which is also quite interesting. Another company recently gave Sacred Groves clusters to its employees on their anniversary of the completion of their anniversary, and also linked it to learning and development program. These tokens called Sacred Groves Clusters are available. We are trying to make sure that, conservation in many ways has been democratized so that the participation is easier seamless and meaningful.

Sid: 7:39

And Vikram, for our listeners why is it important for. Organizations especially those in the sports sector to actively engage in biodiversity protection.

Vikram: 7:49

I would say the sport industry needs to really introspect across several areas, right? I think the first is we need to recognize that the sport industry is now. A 550 to$600 billion industry. So it's an industry which is bigger than the EV industry. Yeah. So there is scale out there, which is quite significant from a commercial context. The second is that the sport industry has that ability unite people across the world. So when you look at different sporting events billions of people get involved. So if you look at soccer, for example. There are different numbers available but anywhere between 3.5 to 4 billion people on this planet get involved in the soccer game, or if you were to look at Olympics for that matter or cricket. Cricket is almost two to two and a half billion people getting involved. Tennis is about a billion people as well. So sport has that incredible opportunity to connect people inspire challenge and drive change. So I think that's a second reason. And the third reason is that the sport industry needs to also, in more ways than one needs to get its house in order. So if you look at the entire sport, sort of customer journey from, the act of play to attending a sporting event, to viewing an event, or, wearing something which is related to sport in each of these four places. There is nature which is getting compromised. So if you look at, say for example, play and pick any sport up. So if you look at tennis or you look at golf, you look at a golf course, for example, a golf course consumes about 2 billion gallons of water almost every day. Huh. That's tremendous and that's something that, the industry needs to really reflect on to see what can to do, what can they do better? Or if you look at attendance, right? I was reading the other day that FIFA, which of course, you know, all of us are fans of almost 3.5 million fans attended the different sporting event. So just imagine I. The amount of footprint, the demand footprint that it takes for someone to travel from different parts of the world. Take a flight stay in a hotel uh, transport to the venue consume resources in the venue come back to the hotel and then fly back. So just the process of attendance has an environmental footprint. And I can go on. If you look at viewership, for example. Some of the top sporting events get billions of views. So where are those views? The views are on your mobile phone or the views are on your laptop or on your television screen, and look at the energy footprint that goes behind that. So I think overall, and maybe last but not the least, if you look at, the wearable industry, so merchandise, for example, it's a$200 billion industry.

Sid: 10:38

Yes. Each time you're wearing a jersey there is, there are resources, there's water, there's material there's a full supply chain behind that. So I think the sport industry has this unique opportunity to create impact at scale inspire people and make a difference. And I think that's the biggest opportunity for the industry to consider. Earlier, Vikram, you spoke about, or you gave our listeners an idea of region and areas where you are involved, can you be more specific or share specific projects where you made significant impact on biodiversity?

Vikram: 11:10

Yeah. Currently we supported three forests, two in the UK and one in Canada. The one in Canada is a fairly unique one. It's called Ocean Century. It's in Nova Scotia. Which is beautiful part of Canada. We were delighted to receive a letter from the government in December inviting us to take part in what they call the Nature Legacy program

Sid: 11:32

Was it December last year?

Vikram: 11:33

December 20 year, which is 2023. And we were delighted because this land is in the UNESCO Biosphere and it was up for sale. For timber and hunting. Yeah, so it was up for sale for timber and hunting. And then Sacred Groves was able to identify this land, purchase this land, and protect it. And we protect using geospatial imaging, plus we have, people on the ground or visit the forest from time to make sure it's in a good, pristine condition. So for us to be a part of an independent audit by the government. Where they identified several species at risks and and they wrote to us saying that, we would like to consider you to be a part of a birth century in the area is a huge compliment to us as a conservation organization, that we are the right track our intentions on the right place, and more importantly, we're making the impact that we set out to achieve.

Sid: 12:31

Yeah. And how can individuals or companies actively contribute or get involved simply knowing that their contribution will impact the the protection of natural habitats?

Vikram: 12:42

Yeah, so I've spoken about individuals, which is you can download the apps and the app store. And start, purchasing sacred growth clusters and engaging with the platform, gifting it, and so on. But I think the real opportunity is for companies. So there are several programs that you're running for organizations. The first one is called Conservation Commerce. Our, the mission is that if you include nature in your value proposition to clients then it'll result in a growth in revenues and potentially your valuation as well. The reason being that customers all over the world are now becoming increasingly sensitive to the fact that, organizations and the products that they buy have a negative footprint and they are clearly expressing a clear preference for organizations that are claiming to make a difference in a clear, transparent and traceable way. Yeah. So the examples that I'd like to give here, there are two examples. Two of my favorite examples. So the first company that came on board is a company called Pyaarnation it's a Instagram based digital dig, digitally enabled art seller. So they've made a claim that for every square feet of art we sell a square feet of forests will be protected with sacred growths. So it is a really nice story. They have expanded to multiple markets including Europe now, and customers retailers and commercial establishments are liking their story because it's not just that they're good at what they do but they're also trying to make sure that they are making a difference to the world around that. So that's the first example. The second example that we've just signed up recently is a European jewelry farm. So they have showrooms in, in the UK and Paris. It's called. It's called W.Salamoon. They're coming up with a range of jewelry called forest splendors and these are nature inspired designs. So each time you buy a pendant or necklace or a banger and, beautifully designed pieces as well nature's gonna get protected. With Sacred Groves. So the module you buy that's inspired by nature the more nature gets protected. There are so many ways that, that companies can get involved. So our work really is in sitting across the table with chief executives and chief marketing officers and chief sustainability officers. Understanding what their business is and saying, Hey, let me add that element of nature into your value proposition that can help you make a meaningful difference, win new clients, and also cater to the regulations. Coming up all over the world where legislation is demanding that industry has a far more transparent, traceable, and improved environmental footprint.

Sid: 15:26

And what tool or mechanism are in place for individuals or companies to track their impact and contribution?

Vikram: 15:32

Yeah. So we've made a lot of effort to make sure that we are traceable and transparent. When you download the applications, you'll be able to see exactly where your Sacred Groves cluster is using geospatial imaging. So there's a pin drop which is basically your blockchain contract. Yeah. So you can see that on the platform you're also able to get all the essential climate indicators, so weather patterns then you're able to see carbon sequestration, biodiversity protected images views, and reviews from naturalists who've been to those areas. So we try to pack in as much information as we can. Which makes the entire interaction experience a lot more meaningful. So there's a lot that one can consume when you log into our platform.

Sid: 16:20

Yeah. And what challenges do you face on your mission to achieve your mission, and how do you navigate them?

Vikram: 16:28

My God. So challenges are many. I have such a long list of challenges. It's not funny. I think. A lot of us are waiting for someone else to solve this problem. Very often I hear this refrain that, oh, this isn't this something that government should do? Or, I'm a very small company and, I just have a one city footprint. And this is a very large problem. And, I'm too small to make a difference. So I think the first point I'm gonna try to make everyone is that everyone, no matter how big or small you are, everybody can make a difference. So don't wait for or anything. Start looking at, things you're bringing into your house. Start looking at, your own consumption pattern. Start looking at your own. Commercial choices start looking at the way you vote. Yeah. So look within, ask yourself what can I do to make things better? And the reason why you need to do that is because we are entering into the warmest phase that our planet has experienced ever in its history. So the last year, 2023 was the warmest year in human history. 2024 is gonna be warmer than that. So we had 1.2 degrees above the baseline. I figure last five years, last year, we touched two degrees above the baseline on one of those days, a and this year you're looking at 1.4 to 1.5 degree world with a few days more than two degrees. Yeah. So as the planet warms it'll have implications for everybody. It have implications on water, it'll have implications on, our planetary conditions, our weather conditions. So somebody recently flew to a ski slope in Europe and didn't find any ice to, to ski on, right? So there are different ways that it affects us. I was in British Columbia in August, September, and I got caught in a wildfire and I just gone there, for leisure. So each of us is getting affected. So for heaven's sake, challenge number one is get involved. Do whatever you can participate. That's one. Second challenge that I have is on on, on this whole aspect of nature protection. It's not easy because there's a lot of pressure from, the local authorities. People, companies. So there's a lot of work that we do to make sure that we remain relevant for the local ecosystem where we are providing those as that level of assistance as we can. Third is is is cost. So it's costly. Yeah. So to buy a forest and to tokenize it and make that available, to individuals and companies to support is a lot of money and. Ours is a very sunrise kind of an industry. A lot of people who are working in this space today are really struggling on capital. So capital is just not flowing into the sector. So you see these big announcements coming away, billions and hundreds of millions, et cetera, et cetera. I don't see that. I don't see that at all, and a lot of my the environmentalist community echoes the sentiment too. That the money is just now flowing in. And you have organizations and people who would plant a few trees and take pictures and put it up on their sustainability reports claiming that they've done a fantastic job. That's not the case. We need to get a little bit more ambitious, as ambitious if we are about our revenues, cost, profitability, and, Shareholder value creation. We need to have the same level of ambition for nature as well.

vikram_1_01-19-2024_140855: 20:00

I, I,

Vikram: 20:00

I'll stop. I can just go on. I have a long, I have a very long list.

Sid: 20:04

Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the process itself, the permits all the paperwork is not straightforward, task. Okay. And how do you how do you get the local community involved in your conservation efforts? Let's say in Canada, for example.

Vikram: 20:21

We make a lot of effort to make the local community, be aware of the ecosystem services that we provide in the area. We are trying to make sure that we are building awareness in, local publications. We speak to people from time to time. We've traveled to those areas as well. But what we've done at the moment is that we've taken we've identified only those forests which don't have an immediate and obvious conflict with the local community. So the risk that we have avoided so far is commercial risk. So our work so far has been related to commercial risk as such. But when we are talking to governments for different programs that we are choosing to run for them that we are proposing to run for them there, a large part would be local community involvement, engagement participation and making sure that they also get rewarded for being able to support nature and taking care of it.

Sid: 21:18

Yeah. Vikram, you spoke earlier about, or briefly about the sports industry as such from its valuation from its importance within the society and communities Now considering. the sport industry, rapid growth what potential environmental impacts does it have and how can Sacred Groves help mitigate them? Yes, I think um, the space that we can, um. collaborate and partner is really inspiration. Yeah. And I think sports has that ability to, inspire people and take action. It's not just with Sacred Groves anyone associated with this 600 billion industry. The first thing we need to do is to think about how can nature be a part of the decision that we are making. Yeah. So it's almost like. Playing for the planet. Yeah, you're playing for the planet, you're playing to make sure that all of us humanity and the planet is in a better place tomorrow. We all get richer by that experience, right? So, uh, For the industry think about how nature can get involved in every decision that you're making for the industry Right? look at the journey. If you look at, say, merchandise, right? So we are seeing some work happening on merchandise. We are seeing. Some use of sustainable materials. We are seeing some recycling efforts. Sporadic though many of them one can claim our campaigns. Yeah. But how can the industry push harder, especially these t-shirts that we are wearing and, how do we make sure that a, they're built to last? Second, people are encouraged to keep these, for a longer duration of time. And three, they're produced with. Some level of attention to detail, which allows nature to get protected as well. So one of the companies that we're speaking to on the merchandising side is looking at committing to each time their merchandise is sold a few square feet of forests are protected with Sacred Grove. So that's one second area that the industry can think about is is these, hosting of these large events. These big stadia full of people, 80,000, a hundred thousand people. Within the stadia itself. So then think about what can you do in that stadia. So ranging from the availability of public transport. So I know a lot of countries have done that well but also the use of lighting the availability of F&B. So it's not uncommon that you enter a stadium and you see a whole bunch of plastic bottles and all those plastic glasses of beverages. Yeah. It's so common, right? That's a trail of trash. It'll be important for a team to take a stand that look when we are playing the game that we, that you love and you take, make the effort to come and enjoy. Let's make sure that a few things and that's something that all the teams can come together and, think about, which are very dear to them. Yeah. Like plastic bottle beverages. How can those get a little more efficient? One of the of the ideas I gave to a organization recently is that each time a commercial sport is played in the stadium. And this was a soccer related team, right? So how about supporting a soccer field like world into forest each time a, a commercial game is played right? So if you play a hundred games and you've supported and protected a hundred square feet of a hundred core soccer fields of forest, it's a very big deal. Yeah. And then use that to create engaging experiences digitally led, memento experiential programs loyalty benefits team memorabilia, which is given digitally, which has, square feet of forest backed by it. There, there's, sky is the limit. When we sit together and we brainstorm, there's just so many things that we can do together. And they are good ideas. Vikram. And what's the response, what's the feedback you get from this organization

Vikram: 25:04

It's encouraging. It's encouraging because obviously everyone's concerned, everyone's thinking about what they can potentially do. Just one feedback that I have for many of these organizations I'm dealing with is that they're looking at that one big thing to do. So I, a game is a million things that you do correctly. Yeah. So don't wait for that one big thing. Get started, look at a few things. Make it like a journey. It's a practice. It's a practice match, right? So if you're in Premier League, you've probably done whatever, hundred thousand hours of practice to get to that Premier League slot, right? So think about those hundreds and thousands of little things that you're doing on an everyday basis as a team, as a fan, or as a company that's supplying, any products into the sport industry, and think of simple, easy ways where you can start making an impact and then agree that there are some things that you can solve. There are some that are not, easily solvable yet except that move on. Because technology is evolving very quickly. Consumer preferences are evolving very quickly. So in today, what can be done? The next match, which is gonna be held two weeks from now. If you know that 80,000 people are gonna come into that stadium what can we do? How can we if 80,000 people are coming in that stadium, that means probably 150,000 plastic cups. Yeah. Can we do something about that? Yeah. If 80,000 people are coming in a stadium, there are 80,000 tickets sold. Can those 80,000 tickets support a million square feet of forests? If yes, let's make it happen.

Sid: 26:46

Yeah. You said that when it comes to ideas that the sky is the limit. I do understand that, most of the time to get the decision makers within the sports organization sports team It might take time. It might take a little bit of lobbying as well But maybe one of the effective way is to reach directly athletes and the sports professionals, which is the stars because they have a huge audience. So in that regard, Vikram, what advice do you have for athletes and sports professional who wants to make a positive impact on the environment?

Vikram: 27:18

One of the I'll take an example from outside the industry because then it's then it can be probably more relatable. Look at Coldplay. Yeah. In the music business. Yeah. They have sustainability reports that they've been publishing. They have worked hard over the last couple of years to make sure that the music that they produce and the music experiences that they deliver to their fans, is as environmentally what do I say sensitive as possible. They recognize the fact that they can still do more. But they're open and transparent about it. Saying that, there are hundreds of things that we can do, but we identified a few areas immediately that we can make a difference. So what sports stars celebrities and teams should do is that, lead by example. Yeah. And do things that make a difference to you. I was with a celebrity the other day and I said that next time when you're going for your award show, wear the same gown that you wore last year. Why do you have to wear the, why do you have to wear a different gown? Oh, wow. What are you talking about? I said, listen, look at the statement that you're making, that you are reusing fashion repurposing it so you can use the same thing, but, twist it down a little bit. Yeah. So that it creates that buzz and look at the inspiration effect that you have then. Yeah. So every star, all of them have these huge followings on social media. Yeah. So if you have this huge following on social media make sure you are putting a point of view on recycling. Make sure you are putting a point of view on repurposing your transportation choices. The clothes that you wear. If a if a big celebrity goes in and says, I'm wearing this T-shirt because I've had this for the past 12 years, and I love it, and I take care of it, and I hope that I continue wearing it for the next couple of years. Or here's the shirt that I'm wearing, which is made out of recycled plastic, and I'm absolutely delighted to wear it. Yeah. Or I'm a football fan as a, and, may be a tennis player, but I've I've gone for a, a football match and I carried my own mug. Yeah. And all the water, all the hydration alcohol, non-alcoholic related. Yeah. I did not use anything which had plastic in it. So the so the point is that look, everybody, every individual, every personality has a certain fan base. Which is deeply influenced by the choices that they make. All that every star needs to do is to pick on a few things that they're passionate about and talk about them introduce them to their fans, and it's incredible how much difference it can make.

Sid: 29:58

Great. And Vikram how is technology integrated into Sacred Groves?

Vikram: 30:03

So technology has a big role to play in our overall experience. We are a cloud native company supported by Microsoft. We are on Azure as an organization that allows us to maintain a certain level of security and scalability for the platform. Second, we are on the blockchain. So we use IBM Hyperledger Fabric, which is a private blockchain, so that enables our tokens to be traceable and transparent and, every interaction in that token is recorded. Three, our apps are on the app stores we use flutter and a whole bunch of technologies to make sure that our platforms are engaging. And they're built in a manner where people wanna come again and again, experience different aspects of it. We use geospatial imaging to track how the forests are doing, and that allows us to then give indicators and information feed to our guardians. So that they know exactly the forest that they're supporting how's it doing? So there's a whole bunch of tech that goes behind it. Which I call wild tech.

Sid: 31:01

And from a policy point of view, do you see your organization influencing, regions or areas policy makers in terms of implementing policies to protect and contribute to conservation?

Vikram: 31:14

Yeah, so I think policy has a very big role to play in the area that we are in because that guides public choices. So there are a few examples that we've come across in recent years that have caught our attention in particular. First is the right to repair movement which is now gaining strength in Europe and some other parts of the world as well. So the context to it is that when I was growing up and I could repair my cycle myself and my dad could repair his car himself. Yeah. Now try to repair your car or your mobile phone. If you open the mobile phone, the warranty goes right.

Sid: 31:49

No.

Vikram: 31:50

The right to repair movement is all about the fact that the manufacturer has a responsibility to make sure that they've created capacity in the society to be able to repair and extend the use of the products that they're selling, which includes parts, which includes availability of tutorials online and over, over a period of time. So I think that's, I find really fascinating and in particular because electronic waste to give you an example, they're more mobile phones. In a landfill today, the new moon's on the planet and there are 14 billion mobile phones that will go into a landfill in the next couple of years. And technically, the world does not need to mine because there's enough that we mined already. So all that we have to do is to recycle and repurpose and reuse what we mine already. And that my vested interest in that is that protects the risk essentially. Yeah. So that's one topic which is right to repair, which I find really interesting. The second is, the side nature as a legal person. So some countries uh, eeg, Ecuador I think to an extent New Zealand as well, they have recognized the fact that when nature gets plundered today, it's a a matter. So if you cut down a forest, then it's a civil issue. It's not a criminal issue. So by defining nature as a person, they've been able to include nature into the liabilities on the criminal side of, the legal structure. Therefore giving a lot more teeth to activists and lawyers who are able to then go after organizations or individuals or interest groups who are indiscriminately destroying our forests and bringing in a lot more accountability and perhaps barriers as well. So two I thought would be of interest. And the last one is that we are trying to make sure that we learn by doing so. Like for example, the company structure that we have is a community interest company structure based out of the uk. And the reason why we particularly like that structure is because the forest that we have purchased as Sacred Groves we've declared that as a conservation asset. So for the life of our company, we cannot change the end use of that asset. It. So our commercial forests have become conservation forests legally and we every year have to file with the regulator evidence that our forests remain conservation assets. So these are some many interesting topics and principles. Of course, I can talk about it a lot more. But yes eventually we wanna make sure that, we participate a lot more in policy making. My co-founder, Monisha and I are often invited in various public forums to speak our mind and share the about nature and give some suggestions in terms of, what can we do better?

Sid: 34:34

Good. Now it's time for our lightning round. If you could choose a major conservation project anywhere where would it be and why?

Vikram: 34:43

Have been very uh, um, in the last one year uh, interested in doing some work in India. so that's the country that I belong to. So we are, we've been, working with the the government of ASAM on looking at ways where uh, Kaziranga which is one of the world's success stories from the perspective of conserving the Rhino population. So what we, one of my dream projects is that can we extend uh, Kaziranga and make sure that the rhinos that are now obviously flourishing the population is, it requires more space. So I would love to get involved in something like that. Second my aspiration on Canada actually came true in December. So it was like our Christmas present. We wanted to make sure that ocean Sanctuary in Canada the conservation asset that we are delighted to protect there are bird sanctuaries in that area. Our aspiration is that, this becomes a part of the. That bird sanctuary ecosystem, so that nature is allowed to flourish there as well.

Sid: 35:49

What is the most inspiring figure in the environmental conservation space for you?

Vikram: 35:56

So I am inspired by the indigenous tribes and communities and, What I find fascinating about the individuals in those communities is that, nature is an integral part of their every day. So they live, work, and play flourish with nature as a part of their ecosystem. So nature is involved in their religion, in their customs in their songs in the way they dress, in the way they communicate. I find that really fascinating because I feel that over the years as we've got modernized, that distance has been established. Wherever I go, I try to interact more and more with the local culture and I, and I get frankly, very inspired.

Sid: 36:36

Can you share the worst career advice you've received and how it influenced your professional journey?

Vikram: 36:42

So I had a boss used to keep on telling me, be comfortable. He probably knew me because I would, each time he would say, be comfortable, that would trigger me because I I have done incredibly uncomfortable things in my life. As an example, a career banker becoming a conservationist that's incredibly uncomfortable. So I feel that if you're not doing things that uh, worry, you challenge you and you feel that you are. Completely inadequately prepared to deal with it. You're not in a good shape.

Sid: 37:18

What is the one thing you wish everyone knew about sustainability?

Vikram: 37:22

What is that one thing? I think yeah. Okay, so this is an interesting one. We are living in what is called the Anthropocene Age, where. Humanity has a disproportionate impact on planetary systems. So that's what Anthropocene age essentially means. There's a very interesting study that was done by university to put a figure to it, to quantify what does it mean? Yeah. So the output of their study was that they they estimated that the weight of all human stuff, which is from the context of the sport industry, the stadiums, the, the merchandise, the roads the infrastructure buildings, et cetera around us. That weight is 1200 gigatons. Yeah. 11 to 1200 gigatons. So let's take that as number and the weight of nature. Yeah. Which is plants, animals fishes in the ocean is 900 megatons, so there's already a gap. Between nature and us, which is a 200, gigaton plus kind of a gap. Yeah. So that is one important fact that all of us need to understand that the way we live today the way we work and the way we play is impacting the planet negatively. The biggest opportunity of our generation. Is to strike that balance, which is really what the whole Net Zero conversation is, right? So strike that balance. Make sure that in whatever we are doing we carry nature along.

Sid: 38:58

What book, movie or documentary would you recommend? Anyone? In sustainability?

Vikram: 39:04

There's a very interesting film called Don't Look Up on I encourage everyone to see that what I like about Don't Look up is is the metaphoric representation that they're making, that society is unwilling to accept scientific facts and is carrying along doing what it's doing right? So the science behind climate action is available for everyone to consume it. Understand it, understand that we are on a warming planet. Understand the fact that, our current lifestyles are unsustainable. Understand the fact that there are certain choices if you are to make differently it'll create a better world for everybody. Yeah. So it metaphorically represents that. And it also then in a very star way shares the consequences of not listening to science.

Sid: 39:55

Good. One piece of advice for listeners inspiring to lead a greener lifestyle.

Vikram: 40:01

Start today.

Sid: 40:04

Vikram, thank you so much for joining us today and shedding the light on the impactful work of Sacred Groves. Thanks a lot.

Vikram: 40:11

Thank you. Thank you for having me over.

Sid: 40:13

In today's captivating conversation with Vikram Krishna, co founder of Sacred Groves, we've navigated the crucial intersection of biodiversity preservation and the rapidly expanding sports industry. From the inception of Sacred Groves to practical steps for individuals and businesses, we've covered the spectrum of insights. Throughout our discussion, we've unveiled a groundbreaking approach that safeguards our planet's biodiversity habitats and is a compelling alternative to traditional carbon offsetting. Join us as we explore the transformative potential of this innovative solution and its positive impact on the environment. A heartfelt thank you to Vikram for sharing the impactful work of Sacred Groves with us today. As we continue our journey to champion sustainability in sports, let's remain conscious of our role in preserving our planet's biodiversity. If our podcast has brought value to your understanding and sparked resonance, we'd be immensely grateful for your support in spreading our message. Take a moment to download, subscribe, and share your thoughts by leaving a comment on your preferred podcast platform. Your input matters and we eagerly welcome suggestions for topics you want us to cover in upcoming episodes.