Welcome to episode four in our series Unveiling Trauma's Impact: Navigating the Hidden Costs. In this episode, we uncover the hidden costs of unaddressed trauma in the education system.
With Ingrid Cockhren, the visionary CEO of PACEs Connection, we discuss the hidden costs that reach far beyond financial burdens, shedding light on the loss of human potential and the consequent threat to our global educational standing.
This conversation traverses the complex landscape of trauma, from the overt disruptions of aggression and ADHD-like symptoms to the silent battles with depression and anxiety that too many of our "good students" endure. We discuss how these struggles extend far into adulthood, detracting from both personal well-being and workforce integration, and stress the crucial role schools play in fostering secure, growth-oriented environments. The episode is a tribute to the educators who are the frontline warriors, equipped with more than textbooks, tasked with the mission to heal hearts and mold minds.
We also discuss the pressing need for a systemic overhaul, urging a shift toward early intervention to nurture our youth, the cornerstone of our future society.
Ingrid Cockhren, M.Ed is a child sexual abuse survivor and knows first-hand how impactful trauma and toxic stress can be for children and families. She has dedicated her professional life to investigating and educating the public about the link between early trauma, early adversity, Adverse Childhood experiences (ACEs) and possible negative outcomes across the lifespan. Her experience ranges from juvenile justice, family counseling, early childhood education, professional development, consulting, and community education. She is currently an adjunct professor specializing in Black psychology, developmental psychology, abnormal psychology & personality theory at Tennessee State University and the CEO of PACEs Connection, a social network dedicated to rising awareness of adverse childhood experiences.
Go to https://betterhelp.com/resilience or click Notes on Resilience during sign up for 10% off your first month of therapy with my sponsor BetterHelp.
Invite Manya to inspire and empower your teams + position your organization as a forward-thinking leader in fostering resilience and trauma sensitivity.
Welcome to episode four in our series Unveiling Trauma's Impact: Navigating the Hidden Costs. In this episode, we uncover the hidden costs of unaddressed trauma in the education system.
With Ingrid Cockhren, the visionary CEO of PACEs Connection, we discuss the hidden costs that reach far beyond financial burdens, shedding light on the loss of human potential and the consequent threat to our global educational standing.
This conversation traverses the complex landscape of trauma, from the overt disruptions of aggression and ADHD-like symptoms to the silent battles with depression and anxiety that too many of our "good students" endure. We discuss how these struggles extend far into adulthood, detracting from both personal well-being and workforce integration, and stress the crucial role schools play in fostering secure, growth-oriented environments. The episode is a tribute to the educators who are the frontline warriors, equipped with more than textbooks, tasked with the mission to heal hearts and mold minds.
We also discuss the pressing need for a systemic overhaul, urging a shift toward early intervention to nurture our youth, the cornerstone of our future society.
Ingrid Cockhren, M.Ed is a child sexual abuse survivor and knows first-hand how impactful trauma and toxic stress can be for children and families. She has dedicated her professional life to investigating and educating the public about the link between early trauma, early adversity, Adverse Childhood experiences (ACEs) and possible negative outcomes across the lifespan. Her experience ranges from juvenile justice, family counseling, early childhood education, professional development, consulting, and community education. She is currently an adjunct professor specializing in Black psychology, developmental psychology, abnormal psychology & personality theory at Tennessee State University and the CEO of PACEs Connection, a social network dedicated to rising awareness of adverse childhood experiences.
Go to https://betterhelp.com/resilience or click Notes on Resilience during sign up for 10% off your first month of therapy with my sponsor BetterHelp.
Invite Manya to inspire and empower your teams + position your organization as a forward-thinking leader in fostering resilience and trauma sensitivity.
We have societal issues that need to be addressed, that the school is taking too large of a role or too much responsibility in these societal issues. We need to create a space of safety for young parents, for young mothers, for very young children, even before they get into the school setting, and this would be a way to address our larger societal issues around trauma unresolved trauma, intergenerational, historical and collective trauma as opposed to attempting to make the schools the space where it happens.
Manya Chylinski:
Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience. I'm your host, Manya Chylinski, and today is another episode in the series Unveiling Trauma's Impact Navigating the Hidden Costs, and today we're looking at the hidden costs of trauma and how they show up in the education system. My guest is Ingrid Cockhren. She is the CEO of PACE's Connection, which is a social network dedicated to raising the awareness of adverse childhood experiences and positive childhood experiences, and she's an adjunct professor at Tennessee State University. We had an amazing conversation and I think you're going to learn so much. I know that I did Enjoy the episode. Hey, ingrid, I'm so glad you and I are talking today. Thank you for being here.
Ingrid Cockhren:
Thank you for having me.
Manya Chylinski:
Now we're going to be talking about a pretty serious subject, but before we dive into that, a question I ask all my guests just to get us started and learn more about you. If you could have dinner with any historical figure, who would it be and why?
Ingrid Cockhren:
I believe it would be Zora Neale Hurston, who was a woman who was a writer during the Harlem Renaissance. She's from Alabama and her take on her experiences with intersectionality of racism and sexism was very refreshing for her time, so I would want to have dinner with her. She seemed like a good time.
Manya Chylinski:
That would be a good time and, I'm sure, just pretty amazing to be with her, and I feel like I say this to all my guests, but if you ever figure out a way to do that, I'd like to hear the results because I think it would be amazing. So, ingrid, thank you for sharing that. And today we're here to talk about the hidden costs of trauma in education, how it shows up in our educational system and in the context of this discussion. When we're saying hidden costs, that might be financial costs, but also lost opportunity, societal burdens or some other costs that I'm not even thinking of. So I'd love to just get your perspective on within education, which I know is a broad field, but within the context of education, what do you think are the most significant hidden costs associated with unaddressed trauma?
Ingrid Cockhren:
I think, obviously money is a significant cost, but there are several in our society. The loss of potential is huge, and so we have individuals who are within a system that is historically oppressive and, even at the individual level, is not allowing for the full human potential to be reached, as we do not address trauma within our society. And I don't want to put all the blame on schools, because I don't know that schools are the best place to address trauma, but definitely the impact is seen in the field of education, and so the loss of human potential, money, obviously, but then also the loss of our standing within on the world stage, and so we have taken a hit when it comes to innovation and also our educational standing across the globe, as we are unable to address those systemic issues that make trauma more likely for others.
Manya Chylinski:
Yeah, so when we're talking about the educational system, I'm thinking of elementary to high school versus college. How does trauma show up in a student? How would someone understand that? Maybe that's what's underlying a particular student's performance.
Ingrid Cockhren:
Sure, so I would also include early childhood education, okay, but yes, I think that when we think about how trauma shows up at the individual level, obviously that's going to be in the school setting for academic performance, right? One of the most prevalent kind of symptoms that we know of for unresolved trauma in youth is that they tend to display ADHD-like symptoms, so the inability to pay attention, sits still and things of that nature Obviously having some impact on academic performance. And then we tend to see trauma more readily in our externalizing students. So that's the ADHD-like symptoms, the inability to sit still, maybe even fighting aggression, talking a lot in class, being disruptive. We often overlook internalized behaviors, so children who isolate, keep to themselves, are dealing with more depressive type behaviors and anxiety, all of which have impact. But I just wanna make sure that we are having the full gamut of symptoms.
Manya Chylinski:
Right and I appreciate you making that distinction. When you were saying the ADHD-like symptoms and the acting out, I thought, yes, of course, but I hadn't even in my brain gone to those more internal symptoms that are less obvious and I would imagine, because they're less obvious, can be more difficult to address.
Ingrid Cockhren:
Right. So those less obvious symptoms may even equate to a child being considered a quote unquote good student, right. So they're quiet, they are sitting still, they're maybe even responsible, have decent grades, but they are internalizing behaviors and so they are isolated, more likely to have the depressive issues, more likely to have issues with suicidality and suicidal ideation, self-harm, and so that's still having an impact on the school setting, even though they may have decent academic performance.
Manya Chylinski:
Right and I'm just trying to play out in my mind a student, say, early childhood or early grade school, experiencing some of these difficulties, and how does that play out by the end of their school career? And I know, obviously we're talking great generalities here, where each child is their own individual. But I'm wondering, does it, is this something that leads to more students dropping out more, something like that?
Ingrid Cockhren:
Trauma is not one size fits all, so there's a whole gamut of symptoms and outcomes, and so we have and this is where kind of the cost can come into play Someone could be a great student and deal with unresolved trauma.
Ingrid Cockhren:
Unresolved trauma always has a physical component, and so there is the physical impact to, you know, the health of our populace based on trauma, regardless of whether or not to internalize or externalize.
Ingrid Cockhren:
And so there is that impact, the cost that go along with having a populace that's sick, you know, once they are out of school and in the workforce. Those mental health drivers of low productivity and not being able to integrate into the workplace, not be able to maintain a steady income and things of that nature all play a part. And so when we're thinking about what it means when they are, you know, no longer in school, yes, there's the implications that go along with, you know, dropping out early or having poor academic performance or not being able to integrate into the workforce. There's also the mental health cost of unresolved trauma that impacts all of our citizens, to include when they're in the workforce and being a productive citizen. And then there's the physical cost of higher rates of heart disease, higher rates of cancer, higher rates of you know all chronic stress-related diseases. This has a huge impact on us as a society, again when it comes to money, but then also, you know, just quality of life issues and the loss of human potential.
Manya Chylinski:
Yes, absolutely. And we're talking about kids, many of whom their trauma is not necessarily based in the educational system, it's not necessarily from the school, but they're going through this whole system and then our teachers and our teachers' aides and all of the folks at school are having to deal with just a wide number of different behaviors, from whatever cause the actual behavior is. I guess I'm wondering you know what's the cost to the whole class if you've got some kids who are really struggling in a particular class?
Ingrid Cockhren:
I think a different way to look at this is our schools are a microcosm of our society and we as a society tend to blame the victims and be very individual, focused on systemic problems, mm-hmm. And so our schools are punitive, our schools are racist, our schools are sexist because they are a reflection of our larger society. And the implications in the school setting, especially if we include early childhood education, is that children are inner facing with schools while they're in very distinct sensitive periods. So early childhood education is sensitive all the way up to age six to seven. We're within a sensitive period of brain development. And then you come back around to another sensitive period in adolescence, where it is also a sensitive period in brain development, but it is more social in nature.
Ingrid Cockhren:
So in early childhood there is a really strong emphasis on belonging, that's focused on caregivers. So do the individually adults in my space take care of me? Are they responsive? Do they facilitate my brain growth? Do they facilitate my social development? And then in the sensitive period of adolescence it is more of a sense of belonging with my peers. So can I easily become involved in relationships with my peers? Can I have a boyfriend or a girlfriend? Can I get along well with my teachers. Can I learn teamwork through sports and things of this nature?
Ingrid Cockhren:
Schools are kind of the backdrop to all of this development. They are just as impactful as parents because, when we think about the time spent in our day to day, children spend as much time at school as they do at home, and so it is very important that the adults of the school setting are just as responsive and facilitate that environment that allows children to feel safe and to grow and to create a sense of belonging with between caregivers and the student, but also between the student and the other students, right, right. So it's a very influential institution, but again, it's a reflection of the larger society. So within that institution there is oppressive systems, there's blaming the victim, there is racism, sexism, homophobia and other isms that we have in our larger society that are impacting those children.
Manya Chylinski:
Wow, I just keep thinking. It is really hard to be a teacher, isn't it?
Ingrid Cockhren:
Very hard.
Manya Chylinski:
Because you have the subject matter. You're teaching the social skills, the relationship skills, dealing with the hidden or not so hidden response to trauma in your students. I'm going to say it here we are not paying our teachers enough.
Ingrid Cockhren:
Right, and then that's another issue in it within itself. Is that Especially an early childhood education? Because if we think about we're not paying our teachers enough, how much are we paying preschool teachers and early childcare workers and how influential that time period that they have with those children is compared to the amount of money that they make. It is a reflection of how much value we place on these children's development within our society. And and Again I'm always on the fence when I have conversations about schools around how much or what responsibilities schools play. When we're talking about these issues arts we have societal issues that need to be addressed, that the school is taking too large of a role or too much responsibility in these societal issues right. We need to create a space of safety for young parents, for young mothers, for very young children, even before they get into the school setting, and this would be a way to address our larger societal issues around trauma, unresolved trauma, intergenerational, historical and collective trauma, as opposed to Attempting to make the schools the space where it happens right.
Manya Chylinski:
We're putting just more on the shoulders of the educators when their job really is Education. So we're talking about the impact of trauma in education and educational system and, as you said, we're not. It's not necessarily the school's role. What are steps that Individuals or organizations can we take to be addressing this trauma so that it isn't putting it all on the shoulders of the teachers and the school administration?
Ingrid Cockhren:
Yeah, so becoming Trauma informed as an institution is the first step. So obviously that comes with training of teachers, training of administrators around Trauma and what it looks like in schools and how it can, how individuals can be a buffer against Trauma, how individuals can facilitate resilience in children. So that would be one step, that you take the First step of becoming a trauma informed school, and there's no destination with that. That's an ongoing process that will be Continuous in in nature, right? Other steps that schools can take would be, you know, to evaluate their own bias. DEI is very Buzzy, but what we're really saying is that we will not Engage in exclusionary practices in school setting. We won't treat students differently based on their skin color or their Social economic status or their gender expression. These are things that, even though difficult, are Possible, and this would be kind of the first steps in creating environments where children can thrive in in our society, where we can at least then become a safe haven for students, regardless of what type of trauma they may be experiencing outside of the school setting, right.
Manya Chylinski:
So you mentioned earlier Intersectionality and we're talking about whether it's race or gender, or sexual orientation or socioeconomic status. All of these things intersect to make us who we are and how do those factors kind of interconnect in this environment. And then I guess, how can we, how can we change that? How can we promote inclusivity and address these challenges?
Ingrid Cockhren:
Some of this issue. Like I said before, schools are a microcosm of our society. These are societal issues. Again, I don't know how much power schools have to address these societal issues, especially when so much of our society is built around race and gender, and what that means is Regardless of what goes on in the school. You know, teachers and administrators are coming into the school from our larger society. They come in with their own beliefs, values that play out in the way that they teach, in the way that they you know, the policies they create, the way that they enforce the rules. All of this they're bringing their own background with them and so we have to strive to be Antibias and culturally responsive. But then the question is kind of what is the incentive to do that in schools when our larger society is not built in that same way? The reason why we even need kind of this trauma-informed push in school settings is because we need the trauma-informed push in our larger society. We are a society that has been built to ensure the success of white, male individuals, things that everyone else is vulnerable within our society. As we push to be more inclusive and to make things better for all citizens or all people within our society, we get a very clear pushback on those efforts. This is a reflection of these are systemic issues that are longstanding within our society. I wanna be very clear that they've gotten much better, obviously, over time, but we will be continuing to push back on this narrative as we try to bring about a more inclusive environment. What schools can do, however, is focus on the real issues, the root causes, instead of focusing on individual children. They need to focus on the root cause of the issue, and so, for schools, I would suggest that there's always a sense of radical inquiry. So I'll give an example of that. Our schools are kind of ground zero for deficit-focused research narratives around people of color. All of our research shows different things, like lower IQ, lower scores around standardized testing, more behavioral issues and behavioral problems in classrooms. I mean, we have a landscape, a research landscape. That's very clear.
Ingrid Cockhren:
Then the question should then be why? Why is it that black and brown children tend to be struggling? The first answer that people generally give is culture. There are cultural differences between these groups, and that's why these individuals are struggling. That is not true, because we have a landscape in our society that has shifted the culture of these different groups. So, for example, children who come from historically traumatic backgrounds, children who come from socioeconomically low-study, sds backgrounds, have kind of this culture. This is not exactly just because it is because of the stress and trauma that goes along with that culture that has pushed those groups to adjust for survival. Yes, so it's hard to say that that's a cultural issue when it is in fact the adjustments that come along with racism and poverty, and so that's a root cause. These are root cause issues as opposed to oh, there's a different culture based on skin color.
Ingrid Cockhren:
Also, our education system is right with scientific racism and scientific colonialism, which is the belief that these different groups are fundamentally different because of their skin color, and the research is obviously flawed. There's no real genetic differences between us. It is more so the environmental factors that we are subjected to presently but have been subjected to throughout generations, and so this means that schools need to do their due diligence in reverse engineering how this came about. This came about through prioritizing specific groups for privilege and economic advantage, and so equity is how we kind of reverse engineer that. This is extremely controversial, because equity is not the same as equality, and so if I'm going to be equitable, then that means I'm going to prioritize children of color. I'm going to give them more funding, more assistance, more care, better quality than I would their white counterparts. And this is when we get parents at the school board meeting throwing tantrums on the floor, and we also would have to in the school setting. One of the best ways that schools can bring about the change that they would like to see in the space is if they tell accurate history. Yes, and this again will be the kind of thing that would bring parents to the school board meeting throwing tantrums on the floor, but at the end of the day, it is also an equity issue.
Ingrid Cockhren:
If we have children of color who are being subjected to racism, then we must have white children being subjected to the history of our nation so that we can first actually address racism.
Ingrid Cockhren:
We believe the narrative is that Black children and Latino children, indigenous children, are doing better in school settings over time and having better gains educationally because there's been improvements within their communities, and that's the wrong narrative.
Ingrid Cockhren:
They're doing better because white people and white institutions are treating them better, and that's the only reason why they're doing better. And so if we change this narrative and we begin to kind of shift, the way that we look at our society and where we should be examining and what we should be looking for and what research we should be engaging in. It makes no sense to research Black and Brown communities around their deficits when we know the root source. Instead, we should be researching the mechanisms of racism and how they've played out and how to avoid them, and that means that we need to have an intergenerational focus on white children and white communities to avoid racist policies, racist beliefs and values being transferred, and that could be a way that schools could make that happen. That's one solution, but we tend to really focus on the narrative around deficit research for communities of color and what intervention we should use to address those kinds of things.
Manya Chylinski:
Absolutely. What you're saying is that that is not the approach that we need, and I so appreciate you talking about how this is a societal issue but how it's showing up in education, and that we're putting a lot of responsibility on educators and some of it needs to be in that environment because there do need to be some changes. Some of it isn't, and I guess, in your opinion, what is that ethical and moral obligation of maybe an educational institution or us as a society, to really understand the impact of trauma on schools, on the educational life of a student, and make it better.
Ingrid Cockhren:
I think the moral obligation is to have a systems approach. I think that's kind of the first step. I remember when I first started kind of work in this mental health social work space, I was doing a lot of case management and crisis counseling with families and I remember, you know, I'm just really running. I'm going from family to family. I'm telling them this is how you adjust, this is the things you need to do in your home and ultimately, what I'm telling that family is this is how you change the way that you operate to survive in this system.
Ingrid Cockhren:
But it's so much pressure on individual and families to deal with societal and systemic issues that can be solved through policy. And what? Where do we want to put this pressure? We don't put the pressure on the policymakers and the decision makers. We put, instead we put the pressure on the individual child, the individual mother, the individual teacher. Right, yeah, to say you need to do better, you need to work harder, you need to adjust to this system.
Ingrid Cockhren:
When we have examples of other places and this is kind of what I said before this educational standing on a global scale, this is where we really see that in some places, policies and interventions and things are put in place that are working, that we won't put in place because we again have this very clear issue around the notionality who prosperity in this society, and then if it doesn't benefit this one group, then we won't engage in it, right? And then if we try to get outside of that, then we're you know, we're socialists, we're communists, we're you know. There's these other labels that come up, all of which are nonsense, because in my mind, especially as a scientist, you know, the question is how do you solve a?
Manya Chylinski:
problem. Wow, this is such a great conversation and I so appreciate you digging in depth in this with me. What is giving you hope right now in this space when we look at trauma and education?
Ingrid Cockhren:
That's a good question. I don't know sounds so horrible to say, ella, I don't know that. I have hope that things will change. I know that we've changed a great deal, but I also see, as we get closer to getting to root cause saying the thing and naming the thing that we need to address we get a lot of pushback. There's a great deal of pushback to the point again where it's kind of nonsensical, like we can't say words that have meaning. Yes, you know, like we get into this weird space where we have to engage in words salad, we can't solve a problem because of and I don't want to say PC, but it's definitely a war of words that doesn't need to any action. We're kind of at a stalemate. We can't, you know, call slavery slavery. We can't call. You know, there's so many different ways that we play around in this space and it's ultimately led by policymakers whose job is to play with words, and so this prevents things from being done in a real way, and it's intentional, it's not a chance. People are intentionally stalling to get these things done because, again, there's benefit to certain groups.
Ingrid Cockhren:
What I'm hopeful about is, as we've brought in the information age and now we have so much information at our fingertips and people individuals are able to construct meaning for themselves, as opposed to education being the only way that you can get to information. This allows for you to go to school and learn certain things, but still be able to interact with information in a way where you can construct your own meaning. Hopefully and hopefully an adult that can help me with that. That makes me feel hopeful. I also feel like a lot of people are kind of becoming more aware of the systems around them and how they seem to not benefit them in a real way.
Ingrid Cockhren:
This has always been the case for people of color. This has always been the case. We've been very clear, but I feel now we have more white people in white communities being very vocal about how this impacts them and what that looks like for them, and they're less likely to say, okay, this system should be embraced as opposed to. This is also oppressive to me. Maybe there is some truth to this is not working anymore. As we get to those spaces in education, it's because we've gotten to those spaces in other places, like climate and politics, like people are getting to the point where like, oh, this is not working, we're not able to solve problems anymore, and that's always been the case for people of color. But now it's more of a wider scope.
Manya Chylinski:
Ingrid, this has been such an amazing conversation. Thank you so much for sharing, and I appreciate the insight into education and its role and into trauma overall in our society, and I wish we could talk more Today. We're not going to, but before I let you go, how can our listeners reach you if they wanna get in touch or learn more about your work?
Ingrid Cockhren:
Yes, so I am Chief Visionary Officer at Paces Connection. So that's pacesconnection. com, and it is a resource and social network that is really dedicated to raising awareness of Paces science, so the science of positive childhood experiences and adverse childhood experiences. I have my own consulting company called Cockhren Consulting, and I can be found on most social, especially LinkedIn, those AcesIngrid, on LinkedIn, and on Twitter, well formerly known as Twitter, and yeah and so, and then they can reach me through PacesConnection at ICockhren@PacesConnection. com. Oh, that's great.
Manya Chylinski:
Thank you so much, and I'm gonna put links to those in the show notes so to make it easier for listeners to reach out and connect with you and Ingrid. Thank you so much. This was such an amazing conversation. I really appreciate your time, thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for listening. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I did. So if you'd like to learn more about me, Manya Chylinski, I work with organizations to help understand how to create environments where people can thrive after difficult life experiences, and I do this through talks and consulting. I'm a survivor of mass violence and I use my experience to help leaders learn about resiliency, compassion and trauma-sensitive leadership To build strategies to enable teams to thrive and be engaged amidst difficulty and turmoil. If this is something you wanna learn more about, visit my website, www. manyachylinski. com, or email me at manya@manyachylinski. com or stop by my social media on LinkedIn and Twitter. Thanks so much.
