Notes on Resilience
Conversations about trauma, resilience, and compassion.
How do we genuinely support individuals who have experienced trauma and build inclusive and safe environments? Trauma significantly affects the mental and physical health of those who experience it, and personal resiliency is only part of the solution. The rest lies in addressing organizational, systemic, and social determinants of health and wellness, and making the effort to genuinely understand the impact of trauma.
Here, we ask and answer the tough questions about how wellness is framed in an organizational context, what supports are available and why, what the barriers are to supporting trauma survivors, and what best practices contribute to mental wellness. These conversations provide a framework to identify areas for change and actionable steps to reshape organizations to be truly trauma sensitive.
Notes on Resilience
72: Wellness at Work—Navigating Wellness in Corporate Culture with Amie Barsky
Imagine stepping into an office that hums with the vibrancy of a well-tuned symphony, each note representing the mental wellness of its employees. That's a reality that can be achieved through fostering inclusivity and encouraging curiosity.
In this episode, the first in our new series on Wellness at work: Nurturing Resilience, we talk with Amie Barsky about how the workplace can be a sanctuary for mental wellness, but it requires the nurturing hands of empathetic leadership to cultivate this environment. We discussed organizational culture, the unspoken language of non-verbal cues, and the necessity for leaders to lead by example in mental health matters. We also talked about how the recognition of trauma's impact on our nervous systems can lead us towards a healthier, more conscious way of living—both in our personal lives and within the corporate world.
Amie Barsky is a Trauma-informed Nervous System coach and Breathwork facilitator, supporting women in redefining what leading a full life can feel like, away from anxiety, overwhelm, and people-pleasing ways our culture has taught us. One that is actually sustainable without sacrificing their mental, physical and emotional health. This is done by resetting the nervous system to trust that it’s safe to slow down and safe to experience more joy and ease among all the “LIFING” that’s happening. Amie guides groups, individuals, and organizations on how to move through overwhelm, negative thoughts, anxiety, low self-esteem, and past trauma so they can feel confident, energized and committed to living from a place of joy & worthiness.
You can learn more about Amie and her work on her website or Instagram, and you can email her: amiebarsky@gmail.com.
Go to https://betterhelp.com/resilience or click Notes on Resilience during sign up for 10% off your first month of therapy with my sponsor BetterHelp.
Producer / Editor: Neel Panji
Invite Manya to inspire and empower your teams + position your organization as a forward-thinking leader in fostering resilience and trauma sensitivity.
#trauma #resilience #MentalHealth #leadership #survivor
So inclusivity is the secret sauce that makes everything come together Like. This is the juiciness, this is the luxury that we get to experience of so many types of humans in the world, and come from a place of curiosity versus judgment around. Oh well, you know why did you do that, or why are you like that? It's like oh, that's interesting. I wonder why. Like, get more curious. And it's the energy behind it, and so I feel like organizations can ensure inclusivity by seeking input from their employees of diverse backgrounds Ask questions, get curious.
Manya Chylinski:Hello and welcome to Notes on Resilience. Today we have an episode in our new series Wellness at Work Nurturing Resilience, and I had a chance to speak with Amie Barsky. She is a trauma-informed nervous system coach and a breathwork facilitator, and we had a fabulous conversation about the foundations of mental wellness in the workplace about the foundations of mental wellness in the workplace, why paying attention to mental wellness in the workplace actually matters, and we talked about trauma and how that shows up in our lives and in our workplaces. Thank you so much for listening. I think you're going to really enjoy this episode, Amie. I'm so excited to get to talk to you today.
Amie Barsky:This is a really good question and I would say Martin Luther King, yes, leader, advocate, incredible human being, big heart, working through societal differences, beliefs, and changed the world Like really a world changer, like seriously. And if I could meet him and sit and share and exchange a meal and conversation and heart space, sign me up.
Manya Chylinski:Absolutely. If you figure out how to work that out, sign me up too. I think that would be amazing. And now you and I are going to be talking about wellness at work and how to nurture resilience, and I guess I want to start with a general question. I guess why do we even care about mental wellness in the workplace?
Amie Barsky:workplace. I think the biggest reason why we care is just we spend so much time in our lives in work Like we spend how many hours a day? Some people more than eight, more than 10. And so if you're spending a majority of your time in your workspace, your mental health and emotional wellbeing gets to be a top priority.
Manya Chylinski:Okay, so what does it look like for someone to have mental wellness when they're in the workplace, and why is that important? Not only for the individual, but for the organization itself?
Amie Barsky:I love this question because I like to use analogies to put it out there now. So imagine a symphony, right and so. Mental health and wellness in a workspace is like a symphony, it's like an orchestra. You've got all these instruments and you want them to be in, tuned right, because each instrument has something different to contribute in their unique melody, if you will, and their unique gifts and talents, and in that creates the harmony of the entire workspace. Right. So it creates a beautiful song that you actually want to listen to, not something that you're like, oh my gosh, it's so out of tune, right. And so individuals it's important for individuals because they feel centered, they feel confident, they feel fulfilled in their roles that they're playing in the workspace, and while that's for them as an individual, is the organization. Well then, they have a well-oiled machine, right. They have their employees thriving, they have them innovated. They then, they have a well-oiled machine, right. They have their employees thriving, they have them innovated. They have them collaborating in a more, I would say, seamless way. Personally, yeah.
Amie Barsky:Thank you for that.
Manya Chylinski:I like the symphony analogy. That's a good one. Yeah, so you know, does organizational culture have a role in promoting mental wellness?
Amie Barsky:I believe so and, if you think about it, the culture is the I would say, the heart and soul of a workplace, right, it's the energy, it's, it's it's. Do you want to walk into the doors of your workspace, whether it's in person or online, and feel feel good, feel welcomed, feel understood, feel supported? And so that's how we set the vibe is in the culture, and leaders create the culture, if you think about it, because if they prioritize mental health and well-being and they prioritize that their employees are taken care of and they lead with empathy and they're promoting a harmonious workspace as well, offering resources or mental health support outside the system, or they're really like championing for the dialogue of you know what we can talk about mental health here? And it's all about nurturing the environment so that the employees feel valued and understood and fully supported.
Manya Chylinski:I think that's so important. Recently there was a study and there's been articles about that specific programs like offering employee resource groups or, you know, a mental health service hasn't actually been shown to change people's mental health within the workplace. And my thinking is that if you just have those tools but you haven't changed the culture, then I think that's where the disconnect is. Would you agree with that?
Amie Barsky:I would agree with that a thousand percent Cause if you think about it, if you practice something on your own, or maybe you read the books or you listen to the podcast or you go to the seminars, but you're not actually embodied in it, you're not actually practicing it, walking the walk, you're just kind of talking the talk and kind of going through it then there's definitely going to be a disconnect.
Manya Chylinski:Yeah, what can we just thinking about? Leaders here who have a lot on their plates and may want to be dealing with culture and may want to be thinking about mental wellness, for whatever reasons, but they have so many things on their plate. What can they be doing? Or what can employees be looking for? That show it's an organization that really does support mental health and mental wellness well, you, you're absolutely right.
Amie Barsky:Leaders do have a lot on their plates, right? They are keeping all the balls in the air, if you will, right, and I think most importantly, some of those balls are, we'll say, rubber balls and some of them are glass balls. So you don't want to drop the glass balls and so you get to decide as a leader, like that's part of your job, that's part of your responsibility is to make sure that you are advocating for yourself in your own mental health and wellness and taking care of yourself, because it has to ripple out. It's the law of reciprocity.
Amie Barsky:If I am being a certain way, I'm taking care of myself and my employees and my coworkers.
Amie Barsky:They're watching, they're witnessing, they're seeing how I show up in the world. That has to ripple out and so, just by way of being, the employees will get that essence, that feeling, because we're energetic beings, we feel each other out right, we're primal, we're animals, we don't actually have to use words and language, we can just feel into it and get it. So I think that's important that the leader takes care of themselves, that they make sure that that glass ball doesn't get dropped, because there's too much at risk if it does, and I know that we live in a culture where go, go, go, do do more, more, more, and the reality is it's burning out the nervous system. And so how can I I think the leaders get to say I come first, and I know that can sound selfish, however it is essential. It's not selfish Because if I'm taking care of me, then I'm making sure that my cup is full and I'm giving from overflow. I'm not giving from resentment or regret or frustration, or I'm giving from, yes, abundance here.
Manya Chylinski:Yeah, I like that. You talked about having leaders embody the idea and taking care of themselves first, care of themselves first, but the embodying it and showing it in their actions. I was just talking with somebody and we were talking about what a small percentage of communication is actually the words that come out of your mouth, that so much of it is tone of voice and body language and behavior. I know it can be easy for me to forget that piece of it Absolutely.
Amie Barsky:I mean, think about it. If you say you're in I don't know the social area of the workspace maybe it's the kitchen where everyone gets their coffee and has lunch or what have you and somebody that's in leadership role is standing there, kind of collapsed in their body, head down, they won't feel very approachable, they wouldn't feel very open to to. If there was a question or something someone needed support. Right, that body language is showing they're not available, right?
Manya Chylinski:now.
Amie Barsky:So it's not to say put on a fake smile and be 24, seven, you know three, 65 happy, happy, happy Cause. That's false positivity, right, it's make cleaning up your side of the street and it's a constant. It's a practice. Yes, it's a. It's a practice like it's not to say I do this one workshop, I do this one thing and and then that's it. It's a practice. We are always evolving. I'm not the same person I was yesterday. You're not the same person you were yesterday. We're a different human being today and every single day we get to choose how do I show up for myself, how do I show up for my family, how do I show up for my coworkers? And it ripples out into the world. And so that's the game we get to play. Is it gets to be an inside out job.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, I like thinking of it that way. Yeah, now you know we've been talking generally about mental wellness, and that encompasses our humanness, whatever might be happening to me at work, outside of work. But something you and I both think about is the concept of trauma. So what is trauma and how might that show up an employee in a workplace?
Amie Barsky:Such a good question. So trauma, in a nutshell, is when an experience happens and your nervous system reacts to the experience, meaning it goes into too much, too fast, too soon, shut down, and there's four coping mechanisms fight, flight, freeze or fawn. They're strategies that we use to keep ourselves safe, and so when our body experiences something, it experiences it, it reacts to it and then it almost always it creates this armor. And within, on our side, my side of the armor, there is limiting beliefs that get plugged into the nervous system and the mind. Right, the mind makes a choice. What happened? Oh well, that was my fault. Oh my gosh, I feel so guilty, I feel ashamed, I feel broken, I feel unworthy, I feel unlovable, whatever the thing is, that thought becomes a belief because it gets planted and then it takes bloom, it takes root right, and then it grows, and then we are.
Amie Barsky:We are animals, and animals do what they scan. They scan for safety all the time, and so we're actually doing that unconsciously all the time, whether we know it or not. And so when we talk about trauma, we they've made these labels big T, little T, and they've made categories of trauma, just so we can understand it a little bit better in our mind, because that's how our brain functions. We want to oh, we want to logically make sense of things, which is great. However, the body doesn't give a shit. The body just has the experience and then it's stored right. Your body is a living library of every experience you've ever had. It can, it's, everything is living there. Our brain can delete, distort, rearrange thoughts to keep us safe. Our body's holding all of it.
Amie Barsky:So maybe you're a person who's like well, I don't really remember my childhood. I don't remember a lot X, y, z, whatever, and that's okay. Your body has a living library of all of it. We don't need to remember. We get to go, wow, okay, great, I don't remember that. And let me look at my life right now. What do I feel in my life right now? Do I feel overwhelmed? Do I feel anxious? Do I feel angry? Do I feel resentment? Do I feel regret? Do I find myself procrastinating? Do I find myself being a perfectionist or my inner critic running the show right? These signs, these daily overachieving, overthinking, overanalyzing, those are all signs that there's some type of trauma hanging out, taking up real estate in the body, and it's playing out in our present life, even though it's from the past.
Manya Chylinski:Playing out in our present life, then that means it's playing out in all aspects of our present life, including, of course, because everything touches everything, life, including how we show up in the workplace.
Manya Chylinski:So my experience was bombing. One moment in time I can say to people this is my experience Other people have been car accident and a natural disaster and you can say, this moment in time, this is the thing that happened to me and this is why I'm feeling that way. But if you've got a different kind of trauma, if it's been ongoing or if it was a long time ago, you might not even know that. That's why you're showing up the way you're showing up, which I'm sure we could spend many hours talking about how to kind of dig that out.
Manya Chylinski:So if that's happening to me and I don't know that's happening to me, how am I showing up in the workplace, and is it possible that the way the workplace is structured could help or hinder me?
Amie Barsky:Absolutely Well, you get to create self-awareness. That's step one. When I'm aware of something, then I can make new choices. If I'm not aware of something and it's all unconscious, then I don't know. I only know what I know until I know something else. Once I know this other thing about myself, then I can go oh okay, well, I'm choosing something else because I know that that thing that I'm doing and I'll use an example emotional eating.
Amie Barsky:That was a thing for me, and I didn't even know it until I understood eating. That was a thing for me, and I didn't even know it until I understood my what like? I was on my healing journey and understanding why, what I was avoiding by eating, and I was like, holy shit, that makes so much sense. And so now that I knew I chose, I choose something else. Instead, I choose to go okay, I want to grab that snack that I don't know ice cream or whatever it is and I ask myself do I actually desire to have ice cream right now, or am I avoiding something? Am I eating to avoid something? Emotions, my procrastinating, you know what else is there that I'm not wanting to do or look at? And I'm filling the void with ice cream. So there's that.
Manya Chylinski:So awareness comes first.
Amie Barsky:And so, yes, the workplace does affect it, because if the workplace is attuned to supporting people because we're all human and we're all experiencing different levels anxiety or overwhelm, or stress like there's good stress, honestly, like I know it sounds kind of counterintuitive, but there is good stress, right, and so there's that. It's like okay, how can I support everybody as a community, as a collective, so that they feel safe to share? Hey, you know what Something's coming up for me right now. Do you have a second? We can have a conversation. You ask permission, always because you don't want to just project and dump on somebody. Yes, and then you go from there, and so that creating that safe place is the first step.
Manya Chylinski:Okay.
Amie Barsky:Yes absolutely.
Manya Chylinski:And what about stigma? I have read statistics that say, you know, as many as 70% of employees have said they felt stigma in talking about mental health issues in the workplace. So I think that's a very real challenge for people who are dealing with trauma or other mental health issues. So is that the case in your experience and how can we?
Amie Barsky:I was going to say fight, I'm not sure that's the right word, but fight against that Well, okay, so it does happen, and I feel that it's happening less and less because things are changing in the world. We have recognized right now that the suicide rate of men is so high because they are holding so much stress and so much pressure and so much is expected of them, and so it is coming to be more common, more available and more like just a casual conversation of how are you doing? And On the other side of how are you doing is not the word I'm fine, it's wow, you know what, thank you for asking, and some stuff's actually been coming up for me, and then hopefully there's an open space to have that conversation because we get to keep. I feel like the walls are dismantling, they are crumbling. When it comes to.
Amie Barsky:I remember the word therapy was like kept a secret, like oh my God, I'm going to therapy, you know what I mean it. Like oh my God, I'm going to therapy, you know what I mean. It was like you didn't talk about it, right? But now everyone's like I'm a therapist, I'm a coach, I'm doing this life coaching program, and that's exciting because that's what's needed. It just gets to become a bridge between the understanding of the human experience and the acceptance, instead of fighting and denying it and suppressing it.
Amie Barsky:Because if it's not accepted in the workspace, that means that person is at some degree suppressing Right and that's not good. So organizations can address the stigma by fostering open dialogue, by providing education and training and really honestly just creating a channel of support, just in a confidential place too, of course. And it's kind of like shining a light in the darkness and once again we're back to the creating a safe space. If I can create a safe place for my employees who can feel open to say what it is, without judgment or discrimination, then they're most likely to do that. They will share. There's any hesitancy of, oh, they're gonna judge me or I'm going to be shamed or I might not get that raise or that promotion or whatever it is, then they're not going to feel safe and they're going to suppress.
Manya Chylinski:Yes, I'm a very hard on my sleeve kind of person and I certainly can in certain instances not share what I'm feeling. I am able to do that. But I remember one time in a job long, long ago where I was crying and it was in a meeting with, like, the division director and I was just instantly feeling. So I was crying about something that didn't have anything to do with what was happening in the room and I was horrified when the division director saw me and commented on it. And then everyone in the room who didn't already know I was crying now turned to look at me to see that I was crying. And I just remember thinking, all right, need to have better control of my emotions, and this is not a safe space, because I felt shamed for having this emotion. Now again, it didn't have anything to do with what was actually happening. So I just share that because I just thought of that as we were talking that it didn't feel like a safe space.
Amie Barsky:Well, it wasn't. It didn't feel like it because it wasn't Correct, and I'm so sorry you had to experience that. That's not okay, because we're human.
Manya Chylinski:Yeah, it was many, many, many years ago. So I hope that that particular leader and that particular workplace have changed a little bit. But you know, you were talking about people saying oh, I have a therapist and I feel like it's no longer kind of a bad thing to say I'm taking a mental health day. I mean, I don't even think you need to say that, but people do. At least it's becoming more accepted. Yeah, I feel like that's legitimate.
Amie Barsky:I'm taking the day because Well, I think we're realizing now how important mental health is. Like I don't think it was so far on the back burner because you said there wasn't a safe place to do it. And and it comes from our families too. It comes from our childhood. You know, if you were ever dismissed as a child, you know when you had emotions or big emotions, and they're like stop being so dramatic or you're too much, you're too sensitive, things like that. That's where we learn to start to shut down and suppress. And so, of course, it ended up in the workplace, because everything touches everything, yes, and now it's starting to shift. If you notice how parents are now parenting, there's so many shifts happening that they are allowing their children to really vocalize in a safe place what's coming up for them, because they're understanding more and more how crucial emotional health and wellbeing is. Yes, absolutely.
Manya Chylinski:So how can an organization be thinking about mental wellness and resiliency in a way that is inclusive of all the different types of people that they have, whether it's trauma, whether it's stress in the workplace burnout? How can they kind of make sure that they're addressing the diverse needs of the workforce without having to bring in a whole bunch of new programs?
Amie Barsky:This is such a great question and I feel that if you think about it like a recipe, like diversity is the spice of life, right? If we were all the same and cookie cutter, like don't you get bored when you drive through a neighborhood that's the same house, maybe it's a different color, but I don't know. The builders like that's what they chose, for whatever reason. Like it's boring, right? So inclusivity is the secret sauce that makes everything come together Like this is the juiciness, this is the luxury that we get to experience of so many types of humans in the world, and come from a place of curiosity versus judgment around. Oh well, why did you do that? Or why are you like that? It's like, oh, that's interesting. I wonder why Get more curious? And it's the energy behind it.
Amie Barsky:And so I feel like organizations can ensure inclusivity by seeking input from their employees of diverse backgrounds, ask questions, get curious and see and go in with that open mind and offer a range of resources that have different support options for different people. And, honestly, it doesn't even matter you know what color my skin is or what culture I come from. We all have a heartbeat, right? We all bleed red. We're all still humans. We still experience emotions.
Amie Barsky:So having that diversity come together and go, wow, you're still a human being, we're just like each other. We're just wrapped in a different wrapping, different color wrapping paper, that's all. And creating an environment where everyone feels valued and respected and I think that's the big thing is the respect piece. You get to feel respected and so, coming back to bringing it in, it's like having potluck Everyone brings a different dish. So when we get curious about these different dishes and as all these dishes land on the table called the workspace, we're creating this feast and there's so much variety that it satisfies every palate. That's the fun part, because there's so many ways to support mental health and wellness and it's not a one size fits all. Some people might love breath work, some people might love silent meditation, some people might love walking in nature.
Manya Chylinski:It's just not a one-size-fits-all, yeah and it's and I know that in in businesses or you know you want to find the program the one thing that you can kind of add in because it's measurable and it's it's smart goals and and it is that like I like the, I the analogy of the feast and there's a little bit there. Everybody can have something. They're not all going to have the same things. So we're getting close to the end of our time and I definitely could be on the call with you for many, many more hours talking about this topic because it's so close to my heart. But is there anything I didn't ask you that you want to make sure our listeners know?
Amie Barsky:I feel that healing and experiencing this human life that we have gets to be more fun, there gets to be more play, there gets to be more pleasure and bliss, because I feel, once we start adulting, right, we get into that adult life of like right we get into that adult.
Amie Barsky:You know, life of like, do-do, responsibility, go-go we lose that fire of playfulness and fun and silliness and joy, and so if we could spark that back in. I think that's a big, big piece of the puzzle, because sometimes we put in life it can feel intense, it can feel heavy. So how do we infuse a little more fun, a little more joy, a little more play, a little more bliss to our daily lives, even if it's something, a task that you absolutely can't stand and I'll take it to the household for a second, I don't know about you, but doing dishes is not my most favorite thing to do in the world.
Amie Barsky:How can I bring joy to doing the dishes? Sometimes I'll play a little music. I have a window right by my sink. I'll just look outside and watch the birds while I'm doing the dishes. I infuse joy in the small tasks of life because that's already starting to plant seeds in how I can show up in other areas of my life with more joy.
Manya Chylinski:Right, oh, I love that. All right, so there's a pile of dishes in the kitchen right now, so I'm now I know how to approach thatm Amie. Thank you so much. Tell, before we go, tell our listeners a little bit about what you do and how they can reach you.
Amie Barsky:Absolutely Well, as if you didn't get it from this conversation. I am a trauma and nervous system master coach and I absolutely love serving individuals who are feeling stuck in life, feeling that sense of overthinking, overanalyzing or procrastinating, and overwhelmed because they've been on the track of do, do, go, go. People please push, improve themselves, and they're noticing I'm exhausted, right, and that's how I help people get back in touch with their nervous systems, with their bodies, and now we get to really go wow, what does my body need? How can I work in a place that's more harmonious between my masculine and my feminine? Because we all have it. So how do I dance between these two places, being efficient and the epic leader that I am of my life and having that intuitive flow, flow that play like that creative side as well. So that's one thing I absolutely love to serve my clients with, and you can find me on Instagram or my website, amiebarskicom.
Manya Chylinski:Excellent. Well, amie, I'm going to put links in the show notes in case any of our listeners need your services. I think it sounds wonderful what you're doing. It's such an important as, as a trauma survivor, I know how important it is to help people with this particular aspect of their life, so thank you for that.
Amie Barsky:Absolutely, and anyone's listening and they desire to try or experience breathwork. I would love to offer you a complimentary pass into my monthly breathwork. Come on in and play and breathe and release as my gift from my heart to yours. I want to support every human being the best I can, so that's something I would love to gift.
Manya Chylinski:Oh, thank you so much. That's such a great gift and I hope some of our listeners take advantage of it. I've done breathwork and I know how important it really is. So thank you everybody, and we will talk to you soon. Thank you for listening. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I did. So if you'd like to learn more about me, manya Chylinski, I work with organizations to help understand how to create environments where people can thrive after difficult life experiences, and I do this through talks and consulting. I'm a survivor of mass violence and I use my experience to help leaders learn of resiliency, compassion and trauma-sensitive leadership to build strategies to enable teams to thrive and be engaged amidst difficulty and turmoil. If this is something you want to learn more about, visit my website, www. manyachylinski. com, or email me at manya at manyachylinski. com, or stop by my social media on LinkedIn and Twitter. Thanks so much.
