The Lattice of Love: Paul Zome's Transformation, Cultivating Kindness, and Sparking a Kindness Revolution through the Love Language Dice

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As we navigate the intricate tapestry of human connection, Paul Zome, a beacon of resilience and hope, joins us to share his story of transformation from a strife-filled childhood to becoming an international bestselling author. His book, "The Role of Love," isn't merely a collection of pages—it's a lifeline, offering innovative tools such as the love language dice to strengthen our bonds. This episode spotlights the undeniable impact that understanding and embracing the five love languages can have on our relationships, highlighted through Paul's anecdotal wisdom as he emerged from the shadows of being the tenth child in a family where love and respect were scarce.

Diving into the heart of our societal fabric, we explore the transformative power of personal accountability, not just in our lives but extending to our youth through journaling and the influence of social media. Paul's insights on nurturing kindness and responsibility inspire a vision of a more empathetic and connected community. Like the beauty of clouds parting at sunrise, we discuss embracing life's trials and finding the stunning beauty that lies beyond, illuminating the path toward personal growth and community betterment.

Our journey with Paul culminates in a call to revolution—a kindness revolution—where the simplicity of a dice game can set the stage for a wave of positivity within schools. The 'Roll of Love' isn't just a game; it's a catalyst for change in how teens understand themselves and interact with the world. We travel with Paul through the complexities of modern identity, relationships, and the importance of creating a supportive forum for teens to express themselves. For those yearning to be part of a conversation that's reshaping our approach to love and self-growth, Paul Zome's wisdom is a guiding light, offering practical resources to foster positivity in every facet of our lives.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

Good afternoon and welcome to another episode of A Contagious Smile, where every smile tells a story. This is unstoppable, and I'm so excited to have Paul Zome with us because he has the most resilient, inspirational story. I can't wait to share it. We've been talking, prior to coming on, about this beautiful picture behind him. I can't wait for him to talk about that for us as well. Paul, I can't thank you enough for finding time to come on with us today.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Thank you, victoria. It's a pleasure to be invited to your show. Pleasure to be with you, thank you.

Speaker 1: 0:32

Oh, thank you. Now you are an international bestselling author. You're just like a jack of all trades. You've got so many things going on. Tell us a little bit about your book first, before we dive into who Paul is.

Speaker 2: 0:46

Sure, I wrote a book called the Role of Love and it has to do with this dice that's right in the middle of the cover there and it's kind of a play on words that you roll the dice outside of you but the change that happens is within you. So R-O-L-E of love is how I explained it. The role of love is actually a dice that's about one inch by one inch that has the different love languages on it. You can see there, for those that can see it, those are two hands looking like they're ready to hold hands. That would represent touch. This one is the Taylor Swift heart that she sends to her family, or Caitlin Clark heart that she sends to her family after playing basketball. Only this one has a conversation fly out. So these would be the words from the heart, for the words also got a hand holding an hourglass representing time. Looks like a waiter holding a tray representing service. And then the last one would be, of course, the gifts. Five love languages, six sides on the cube. The last one is surprise me. Surprise me is just on that day. There's just two instructions.

Speaker 2: 1:56

Victoria, you roll the dice every day, whatever it lands on. That is the love language. You practice giving away all day that day, and by doing that over a 30-day period you'll learn all five love languages, backwards and forwards, so that now you can see it when it comes your way, really closes that communication gap that most people have. Most people can only see what they like, they can only see their primary love language. This gives you peripheral vision. Say, oh, they're loving on me, it's not my primary love language, but I still can respond to that. So it's kind of solving that communication problem. I had it when I was younger. I grew up in a dysfunctional family and this really helped me immensely.

Speaker 1: 2:37

I love your website. I'm going to make sure that we put the link in it to everyone for the show notes, because even on your website it's just so inviting, it's just welcoming, and it talks about all this as well, which is just fascinating to me. I'm so excited because there's so many things I want to talk to you about. But let's go back to your childhood. You didn't have an easy childhood.

Speaker 2: 2:58

It was not easy. I'm number 10 of 11 children, victoria, I'm the tithing child, but I'm the youngest boy and what would happen is my father was a truck driver and he'd come home on the weekends and he always dated my mother. I don't know of a Friday night that he ever missed dating my mother. In fact the kids wouldn't. We wouldn't see him until after their date on Friday night. But the date kind of went like this in my imagination because what happened afterward was how night. But the date kind of went like this in my imagination because what happened afterward was how I perceived how the date went.

Speaker 2: 3:29

That my mother would disgorge, as when two people haven't seen each other for a while, they say well, how was your week, how was your week? My mother would say all the things that happened during the week and I can imagine my mother never was there, like I said, but I can imagine my mother starting at the top of the list of all the children and by the time they get down to number 10, me. My father has been annoyed, annoyed, annoyed, annoyed, stacking all these annoyances until he has this flash of anger and I felt like the target of all that anger, like a black sheep, not particularly a black sheep.

Speaker 2: 4:06

It's just that he was annoyed from all my brothers and all the older siblings just because it came down to that and I was the youngest and probably most vulnerable and just felt like I got the brunt of whatever he was mad about.

Speaker 1: 4:23

So what did that entail for you when he got to that point?

Speaker 2: 4:27

It was actually physical punishment, verbal abuse. He was never the perpetrator of sexual abuse, but in my family there was some sexual abuse that went on and there were just there's financial abuse. There were a lot of different types of abuse in the family, so it really was an angry culture. An angry culture meaning that there are no boundaries. You can talk over people and you know while they're talking, and just we didn't have all those manners that were taught. My father had an eighth grade education. My mother had a high school education. I think education really plays a big key in how you react to and interact with other people absolutely so.

Speaker 1: 5:08

It was also a respect issue as well correct.

Speaker 2: 5:12

Yeah, there was no. No, there was no risk. So it was like that. Is that tina turned out saying no, they got no respect, or who is that?

Speaker 1: 5:20

isn't it, aretha franklin?

Speaker 2: 5:21

aretha Franklin, that's it.

Speaker 1: 5:22

Yeah, yeah you know one of the other shows we have free and Paul, one of the shows that I actually did was with my husband last night and we were talking about this very subject and I'm so glad that you're here. I'm not going to tell you which one of us was standing on what side, but one of us is very much against any type of paddling, spanking, welting, whatever you want to call it, your adjective of choice, and that the other one says it's OK to paddle on the butt. How do you feel about that from the childhood you went through?

Speaker 2: 6:00

We, we went through a lot of things, and my father, father's favorite thing of choice was the belt, and so it was not even just the paddling, but just having a tool in his hand. In fact, I remember my older brothers in high school woodshop. One of the projects that the teacher presented for a choice was you could create a paddle that had the, the little welt marks in in the paddle, that that could be your project and you could gift it to your parents. For, for, yeah, that was the, that was the project, a wood woodworking project. I did. I did spank my children with, with the hand open hand and um and and hopefully I I don't think it was very often, but it was, uh, definitely often enough that I feel, I feel terrible about that. I feel that I should have been more diplomatic that way.

Speaker 1: 6:54

I wish I would have had the knowledge absolutely, and I guess my facial expression sold you which side I was on, but my husband has been a person that's like no, I think if they need it, they need to pop on the butt. You know and I'm like I don't agree because you're giving them just this action that after a minute or two the sting is gone. But sit down, have a conversation with them. Like our daughter, faith has never been popped never. And yet she's incredibly respectful. She has her own podcast. She will say I'm sorry, I did wrong. I taught her.

Speaker 1: 7:27

You know pencils have an eraser, and that's what life is about is learning from the mistakes. Nobody's perfect. And let's talk about something like if she didn't finish her schoolwork, I would say to her you know what? I love you, but I don't like the fact that you chose to do XYZ instead of finishing your schoolwork, so you chose to give up your phone for the evening. You chose to do that. I'm not taking your phone away. Your choice of not completing your schoolwork chose to give me your phone, and I think that is much more powerful than spanking again or like even teachers now and I had this discussion again is like teachers.

Speaker 1: 8:04

Now some teachers in some states have the authority to paddle our kids, and I think that's absolutely not okay. Because how is it okay, hypothetically, if your child goes to school, your child gets paddled, but if your child comes to school being paddled, then sometimes they open a case against you for child abuse. But a teacher who you know not necessarily a stranger per se can pop your kid. I don't agree with that at all, like I don't think a teacher has the right to lay hands on your child. Do you think that? I mean, I think that's just a welcoming to more violence in the school.

Speaker 2: 8:45

I agree, and just think of the principle of just step back a minute to get that the 30,000 foot view of that. Victoria, you're trying to teach children not to hit. You're trying to teach children to stop the violence, but here you are hitting them, here you are spanking them, and it's just. You know, you have to have that congruency within your own personality because whatever you're sending out, actually it's coming right back to you and just have to be careful about that. And I found that you know another thing that happened in my childhood that we probably need to talk about, because it's part of part of what.

Speaker 2: 9:25

What was my problem is that I realized it was my problem is that I was critical of other people and my whole family was critical of other people, and what we would do is we would stack annoyance on top of annoyance until we had a flash of anger, go back down and start being annoyed again what other people were doing wrong, as if we had the ability to control their life or to make suggestions or do anything. And I realized that that's a boundary I didn't learn growing up and I had to learn it along the way. That just was an epiphany for me. I'm not in charge of them. I'm not in charge of the choices they make, and whatever they do is really I can't. I don't have the privilege or ability to be critical of them.

Speaker 2: 10:15

And I realized I was that people have faults. Nobody's perfect. But I was really realized that maybe that's 10, maybe that's 20% of their personality are the display of their weaknesses and faults, but I'm missing the whole 80 to 90% of what that. What was good about that person? And as I'm, as I'm rolling the dice, what happened for me is almost instantaneously, just within a 30 day period, so quickly that all that was erased and I'm now looking the other direction, saying what's right about that person, what can I love about that person, instead of what's wrong with that person. And you should listen to me so you can fix that problem that you have thinking I'm the authority and I wasn't.

Speaker 1: 11:01

Well, let me ask you you have a child who says, let's just say they're getting paddled or physically abused at home, and then they come to school and they act out because they want attention. And if the only way they know to act out at school is in a negative way and they get in trouble at school, where's their safe place? So if we implemented which I absolutely love your rules, what do you think that would happen in our school system?

Speaker 2: 11:25

your rules. What do you think that would happen into our school system? You know what? That's a great question, victoria, and I'm introducing this to the school system locally and it's just a test right now, but it's working very well. What happens is that, as a class, maybe one of the students, maybe the teacher they'll roll the dice first thing in the morning takes two seconds to do that. No time at all to take out of that teacher's day. It's already jam-packed anyway, so we really can't take a lot of time from them. But the teacher might take 30 or 40 seconds and say class, this is the type of behavior we're watching for that particular day. They go through the day At the end of the day. What I've created and given to the teachers around the world is a pdf of this that says what they rolled opportunities they saw to love in that way, what they did about the opportunities. Every child would have to fill out now and report what they did during that day.

Speaker 2: 12:18

So now I it took me until I was age 35 years old approximately, victoria, before I realized that, oh, I'm responsible for my own stuff. I was blaming my father. He said the way I am is because of him. You go talk to him. He's the one that needs to change, not me. And it was really my problem and I was blaming him. Even seven years after he had passed away, I was still blaming him until I woke up one day and said I really am responsible for my stuff and it really kind of that was the paradigm shift that started changing my life and moving in a different direction, and I think that if we can get children at age six I'm testing it in the elementary, the primary school right now, k through six we can get them to be responsible for their own actions. We're going to tamp down a lot of that bullying, a lot of the violence and a lot of the disciplinary problems that teachers and principals spend a lot of time on instead of teaching. That opens up more teaching time, more learning time.

Speaker 2: 13:24

The second thing about it is that at the end of the day, these kids are just tired of being in school. They're antsy. They've been there all day. They're really tired of learning. Their brains are mush. The last 10 to 15 minutes of the day is really non-productive time, according to many teachers that I've talked to around the world.

Speaker 2: 13:42

Let's take this activity of journal writing as a decompression activity. Tamp them down a little bit before they're actually sent home and just let them think. Let them think through the day. Just have that regrouping, think through the day, write about it. The teacher does a check mark, sends the paper home. Maybe there's some great stories there that the teacher might want to read in front of the class the next day as they're rolling the die, and just work on this behavior. If these children learn all five love languages, how to give it away and how to watch for it when it comes out their own way, and watching for the positive things about their classmates, it's going to be a different classroom, it's going to be a different school, it's going to be a different community and it's going to be for that child. It's going to be really a different life, lifestyle. They'll start off really with a foundation of a literacy of love that they would not have otherwise.

Speaker 1: 14:39

Yes, Now the page you just showed me is that in your book.

Speaker 2: 14:43

That's a journal, so that's a separate book all by itself. So Roll of Love book, and then the journal is separate.

Speaker 1: 14:50

Which we're going to have links to because these are fabulous. These are absolutely fabulous. You know we're reading that even in middle school, that there was just a story about a middle school young boy who had a 125-page manifesto of what he was going to do to his school. And to think about these kids that are going home and writing this, the parents say they have no idea. You know, it's mind blowing. You have a kindergartner who came to school and shot their teacher. These are things we didn't worry about when we were in school. Do you believe and this is just a way out in left field question do you believe electronics and the social media perception, because you can be whoever you want? I mean, there's these teenagers who are a totally different person on social media and the kids believe wholeheartedly that they would know if they have a pedophile looking at them, that they know all about cyberbullying, but it's still happening all the time. Do you believe that the social media footprint is damaging our youth?

Speaker 2: 15:52

I believe it is to a certain extent, but I believe the media of the past has also done the same kind of damage, that we're focused on the negative parts of life, in fact, instead of the beautiful parts of life. You know we talked about this picture a little bit earlier of this offline, but just this whole picture. This is a sunrise on a lake in central Utah, south central Utah, and I just happened to be there one day and this fisherman that's in the picture came up and asked permission if he could fish right beside me, and I said who has permission? I mean, he even owned a cabin, or his grandfather built a cabin on that lake in the 50s and I was a visitor and he was still asking me permission to fish right beside me and it was just a really very kind person. And then the sunrise, the sunrise happened and this is the picture that I got of that sunrise. But I was telling you, victoria, a little bit earlier that I had a driving route that I would get up before dawn and come back after sunset and I had a lot of windshield time there and I saw, I saw the sunrise, I saw the sunset.

Speaker 2: 17:04

After about six months of doing that I realized that that, oh, the very best sunrises and the very best sunsets all have clouds, just like it is in life. We all have our problems and as we work through our problems, then, and only then, is when we see the silver lining on the clouds. That's the only time that we're going to be able to see how beautiful that was, that we went through that trial to be able to gain that understanding that we wouldn't have had otherwise. And so people have asked me the question Victoria, do I regret having grown up in an abusive family? I wouldn't have had it any other way, because I'm where I am right now. You know, it would have been nice to learn, to learn love a lot sooner in my life, but, but through the trial I'm become who I am today, which is totally different than the way I grew up, and it's the try. Trying to make it a more loving world is really a mission that I've got right now. I'm very excited about love right now.

Speaker 1: 18:13

Yes, and you used the techniques, if you will, to be your footprints on what not to do. So the way you learned was how you learn not to be growing up. So, with this tumultuous childhood you went through, how did you become comfortable to start a healthy relationship? How did you feel like you'd be okay to go into one and and be secure? How did you transition into that from where you were?

Speaker 2: 18:43

That's a really good question. I didn't have any problem talking to people and to be friendly with other people. There was a time that it got to the point that I felt like, well, I still could be critical of that person and I really learned to be able. I needed to put the brakes on. So it's just like taking your car in to get it fixed. Sometimes you need brakes and you've got to put the brakes on for your, for your mouth. You've got to put the brakes on for your thoughts and you've got to put the brakes on for for maybe the touch kind of touch that you're doing, you've just got to put the brakes on and know that those are. That's the boundary, that you can't go really go any any farther with that thought process, with that physical process. You can't go any farther and and and be able to know when those times are. And so, trial and error, I've.

Speaker 2: 19:39

I've on my third marriage right now. So it's taken, taken me through a lot of heartache to get to this point. But you know the first, through a lot of heartache to get to this point, but you know the first, first wife. We had 23 and a half years together and then I would imagine that part, part of my responsibility of that, the you know, the demise of that first marriage was the anger issues that I had, the stacking of those annoyances. But it's different now. I felt that there was an opportunity for me to do something different, and I tried to do something different. Try to improve myself. Rolling the dice has helped me quite a bit and qualified me to be a better person for the next person that I married, and so what I found now, victoria, is, instead of stacking annoyances, I stack kindness on top of kindness on top of kindness. And so what I found now, victoria is, instead of stacking annoyances, I stack kindness on top of kindness on top of kindness, and it gets me to the higher laws of love.

Speaker 2: 20:33

I look at these love languages that Dr Chapman had identified and I use the theory. I don't use his application at all. You'll notice there's nothing about romantic at all. This is decency of a human being that you're sending love out without any expectation of it coming back, and just trusting the laws of the universe, that it's the law of the harvest, or karma, or the law of attraction, whatever you want to call it. Whatever you send out is going to come back to you someday. So using that and stacking those kindnesses will springboard you to the higher laws of love like charity or compassion or forgiveness or mercy or trust. Those are higher laws of love, or even intimacy. Can you imagine insulting, insulting, insulting and then having that expectation at the end of the day? So there really is not going to happen.

Speaker 1: 21:29

Right, absolutely. And you know I I've taught our daughter from day one like it doesn't take but a minute to give somebody a compliment once a day. Do something nice for someone every single day. You know, I don't know how much you know about us, but my daughter just came out of another hospital stay where she had her 53rd surgery and we almost lost her twice.

Speaker 1: 21:47

So this child would get stuck and she'd say thank you, thank you for sticking me, or thank you for taking care of me and for her she'd always say, oh, I love this. And I said everybody is so quick to jump to negative, everybody's so quick to judge somebody. I'm the person that's going to call your supervisor and say they did such an amazing job and I just want to thank you, because nobody does that anymore and I think if more people just did that a little bit, then we'd have a much softer world. Because this is so just. Everybody's like let's do the bare minimum and get out of the way and not care, and everybody's just so negative. And it's just the ability that that will make somebody's day. I mean, it absolutely makes a me say and it doesn't cost a thing. And in return we feel really good too, because we're helping somebody else and you're helping brighten their day.

Speaker 1: 22:35

You don't know what's going on with them. Somebody takes your parking space and you're cursing them out left, right and center. What if their best friend just passed away? What if they just broke up with the love of their life? You don't know what's going on in their world. I mean, just move on. At the end of the day, is that really such a big deal? It's not really a big deal. If you had pulled in that parking lane a minute later, that space would have been gone anyway. So just find something else, don't let it just control you. You know, I mean, that makes such a big difference. So how did you start implementing these beautiful rules that you're you're living by? How did it just come to fruition for you?

Speaker 2: 23:11

well, it started actually it started with with the block of wood. I this is like two and a half inches by two and a half inches huge block of wood. You can see how the, how sharp, sharp the edges are there. And I I found that that if, if I was trying to roll this, this cube, that it was go thunk, thunk, thunk, maybe three thunks, maybe four thunks. So I could almost program and say, okay, I want to do whatever and make it a weighted dice and roll it, and yep, came up. That's what I wanted to do today, and so really wasn't the randomness that that had, and you'll notice these sharp edges too. That was really me. I had these sharp edges of my personality that I wanted rounded up. So the next one I made, I did it.

Speaker 1: 23:58

I love that. I love that.

Speaker 2: 24:03

Did the rounded edges and now it would roll normally. So it took two years, victoria, to get the artwork done, to make the dice. Now it's about one inch by one inch cube that we've got right now, but it just took so long. There was some progression that way. But along the way, while I'm rolling that huge dice, I'm realizing that if I'm looking toward positive, I absolutely can't look at negative at the same time.

Speaker 2: 24:31

So I really tried and really was working on looking at what's right with people instead of focusing on someone. Just took my parking space, but it really didn't even have my name on it. That's the one I wanted, but but maybe there's another one around the corner or something you know. It's just just quit getting upset about that, quit being annoyed at that. It's out of your control. They took it, they were there first. It's out of your control. Find another one.

Speaker 2: 24:59

And I realized that love's like that too. I can't bid love to come my way, but I do have control over sending it out and responding when it does come my way. Those are the only two things in regards to love that I have control over. So choosing to send it out all day long is something that is very easy to do. I put these pictures on the dice for that very reason. I put these pictures on the dice for that very reason. They will burn into your mind as an icon, rather than, if I said the word elephant, you're not seeing E-L-E-P-H-N-T in your mind. You're seeing the picture of the elephant. And for that reason I have the pictures on the dice, so that it'll burn into you. You'll remember what you rolled that day and practice it all day long.

Speaker 1: 25:49

I love it. I love the square and how you rounded the edges. It made me think about, like when you have kids and you have a sharp corners, you want to protect your kids, so you baby proof them, you put things on it so they don't get hurt, and then what do you do? You make your next cube with the rounded corners, and that is. I love that. That is just so amazing that you have done that. What is next for you? What's on your plate next? That?

Speaker 2: 26:14

you have done that, what is next for you? What's on your plate next? I'm still trying to work with the schools right now, victoria, I really think that if we can start this new generation of children with kindness, it may take 30 years, it may take 50 years to get to that point, but let's start there and let's get this kindness revolution going. Let's start there and let's get this kindness revolution going, really get it going strong. We really need them to focus on what's right about each other and stop the focusing on what's wrong.

Speaker 2: 26:42

That's the media, that's they've trained us to do that. That's the all the newspapers, the newscasts, nightly newscast. You know 90 to 90 to 95 percent of that. That newscast is just bad news. Even the weather could be bad news, but the weather is probably the best news on the newscast. And that's really kind of a sad scenario that we've come to that point that the weather is the only good news and that's still something that we don't have control over. So why complain? Why complain about it? It's going to be what it's going to be. How are we going to respond to that? And just learn how what we have control over work in the realm of what we have control over, versus what we don't have control over. Let it go. It's going to relieve a whole lot of stress in all of our lives if we just stay in our lane.

Speaker 1: 27:34

I have a request question and I'm going to put you on the spot because we're on air.

Speaker 1: 27:38

So, we have the show that Faith does. It's called the Contagious Small Teen Talk and it is an unconditionally safe place where kids come on, they talk, they're heard, they are listened to. We try to make a difference for these kids. We have a co-host who is an amazing child. He was a Make-A-Wish recipient and he wanted to be on a podcast and after having him on, he now co-hosts with Faith and these teen talks are actually aired in certain schools and I would love to see not that I'm putting you on the spot I would love to see if I could get you to come on to teen talk with the kids at teens.

Speaker 1: 28:15

I get so much ridicule for calling kids to have you come on to teen talk with the kids at teens. I get so much ridicule for calling kids to have you come on and do this with them and it gets played in the schools because we need to get this out. I think this is fantastic because our kids, like Logan, who you meet, says I go to school to learn and instead I'm being ridiculed because I'm not identifying the kid next to me as a dog Cause today he's a dog, tomorrow he's a cat, Tomorrow he's whatever. And then there's catnip in the cat litter in the bathroom for them to go to the bathroom and I'm like, are you kidding? And he's like no, and he goes.

Speaker 1: 28:43

You know you get insulted and you get in trouble if you mispronounce their pronouns and I'm like we've got to do something. This is crazy, because they're not teaching cursive anymore. They really don't teach math anymore. They everything is done electronically. They can bring phones to school, they can bring soft drinks to school and these aren't things we did. I mean, you know our biggest fear was not getting home before the streetlights went on, Like that was our. You know, I would love to invite you to come on with the teenagers and talk to them about this and let them do like a little view of your game and get it out there and let the schools hear it.

Speaker 2: 29:18

I'd love to do that, victoria. It's interesting that I think that rolling the die and focusing on sending love out all day long doesn't look at black, it doesn't look at white, it doesn't look at brown, it doesn't look at gender, it doesn't look at sexual orientation, it doesn't look at anything. It doesn't look at brown, it doesn't look at gender, it doesn't look at sexual orientation, it doesn't look at anything, except it looks at that person as a person, and a person that's deserving of respect and kindness. That's it.

Speaker 2: 29:45

That's it, it erases everything, and I think that we really need to teach that that if it's a person, I'm not sure about the animals. We should be kind to animals too.

Speaker 1: 29:58

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 29:58

I agree so but treat them as as an individual, treat them with that higher intelligence, treat them and just focus on what's right about them. If we just just do that, just focus on what's right about that person or that dog or that cat or whatever, if we focus on what's right about that, then we're going to be in a lot better shape than trying to be critical about that person and I've lived a life of criticism. It's a whole lot better life, living a life of love. I can tell you from my own experience.

Speaker 1: 30:33

Yes, Paul, I think that every school should teach this. I mean seriously, because nothing's getting done to help our kids not feel safe, not feel secure. They are able to stop the steam, and it's not about that. These kids should not spend their adulthood recovering from their childhood.

Speaker 2: 30:49

It doesn't work with indulgence, Victoria. It absolutely does not work with catering to just individual needs. It works with catering to the real, real desires and who they are and what they represent by the actions that they take. We're all responsible for our own actions. Who is that person and how can I love that person? That should be the mindset and we've got to get away from the critical mindset which would make them think that I've got to stand up for myself because I'm being criticized. I've got to stand up for my dog rights or my cat rights or my gender rights or whatever. You've got to stand up for that because you're being criticized in one way or another. Forget the criticism. Forget the remedy for that criticism that we just cater to what they want. Focus on them as a person, what's good about them, and it just solves, solves a lot of problems.

Speaker 1: 31:47

Oh, you have been such an amazing guest. Tell everybody where they can find your books. Again, I'm going to get all of your links and I'll post them in the show notes. But where can everybody find you find your books?

Speaker 2: 31:57

You can find my book and the journal and the dice on my website, rolloflovecom and again, it's rolloflovecom. The play on words R-O-L-L is outside of you, r-o-l-l-e is the change that happens within you. So rolloflovecom is where you'll find that If you are listening to this podcast and like the Audible version, you need to go on Amazon. But don't type in Roll of Love, because you're going to get love, this love, that love, a million things on Amazon. Type in my name, paul Zolman, and the Audible version of the book will come up and you can listen to that.

Speaker 1: 32:31

That is fantastic. I can't thank you enough for being here. I'm going to get you on the Teen Talk Show. I thank you so much for being with us today and I look forward to having you back with us soon.

Speaker 2: 32:41

Thank you, victoria, it's been my pleasure. Thank you Fun show, thank you.