A Contagious Smile Podcast
Emerging from the Shadows: Jessie's Triumph Over Childhood Trauma and the Quest for Healing and Hope
Jessie's journey, a staggering narrative of survival against all odds, unfolds in our latest episode, where her voice resonates with the power of resilience. She bravely narrates a childhood under the shadow of a narcissistic mother and a predatory stepfather, experiences so intense they could belong in a harrowing film. Her story takes us from the discovery of an extraordinary intelligence to a life burdened prematurely with adult responsibilities. As a child who cared for siblings and faced the turmoil of a pet neglected amidst chaos, Jessie paints a vivid picture of a young life where trauma lurks at every turn.
Our conversation with Jessie moves through a labyrinth of family trauma and the fight to escape the clutches of abuse. It's a tale that speaks volumes about the strength of the human spirit, as she recounts the confusion and lasting scars of witnessing her mother's attempted abortion, and the upheaval of moving that heralded a life of constant change and challenge. Jessie's account doesn't just share her struggles; it serves as a beacon of hope, shining a light on the transformative effects of therapy, medication, and the pursuit of positive choices.
As Jessie corrects a name at the end of her chapter, a single act symbolizes the vital process of confronting and reconciling past pains to forge a path forward. This episode unveils Jessie's legal battles over custody, the disturbing dynamics of family linked to a cult, and the profound resilience required to break free from a cycle of abuse. Her testament, chronicled in her book "Girl Hidden," reveals the indomitable human spirit's ability to heal and love, proving that even from the darkest beginnings, it's possible to emerge into the light.
Jessie's journey, a staggering narrative of survival against all odds, unfolds in our latest episode, where her voice resonates with the power of resilience. She bravely narrates a childhood under the shadow of a narcissistic mother and a predatory stepfather, experiences so intense they could belong in a harrowing film. Her story takes us from the discovery of an extraordinary intelligence to a life burdened prematurely with adult responsibilities. As a child who cared for siblings and faced the turmoil of a pet neglected amidst chaos, Jessie paints a vivid picture of a young life where trauma lurks at every turn.
Our conversation with Jessie moves through a labyrinth of family trauma and the fight to escape the clutches of abuse. It's a tale that speaks volumes about the strength of the human spirit, as she recounts the confusion and lasting scars of witnessing her mother's attempted abortion, and the upheaval of moving that heralded a life of constant change and challenge. Jessie's account doesn't just share her struggles; it serves as a beacon of hope, shining a light on the transformative effects of therapy, medication, and the pursuit of positive choices.
As Jessie corrects a name at the end of her chapter, a single act symbolizes the vital process of confronting and reconciling past pains to forge a path forward. This episode unveils Jessie's legal battles over custody, the disturbing dynamics of family linked to a cult, and the profound resilience required to break free from a cycle of abuse. Her testament, chronicled in her book "Girl Hidden," reveals the indomitable human spirit's ability to heal and love, proving that even from the darkest beginnings, it's possible to emerge into the light.
Good afternoon and welcome to another episode of a contagious smile unstoppable. We're going to do an unstoppable because, I'm going to tell you ahead of time, there is a lot of triggers here, but it is a story of inspiration and healing and life and love, and I just met this woman, not even an hour ago, and I already adore her, like adore her, and you will too. Um, there is a lot of triggers that are going to come up here today, but this story has to be told and I'm sorry this story needs to be like a movie told. It is amazing. It is the inspiration that you will find that comes from this woman is it'll leave you speechless. It absolutely will leave you speechless.
Speaker 1:I started to learn all about her and to prepare for this and I couldn't wait. I was like a little kid at Christmas, waiting to talk with her, just to tell her how inspired by her I am and how I just wish I could give her this really big virtual hug right now, because what she's gone through and survived is just amazing. Jessie, thank you so much for finding the time to come on here with us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be on your podcast.
Speaker 1:This is going to be awesome, oh you are amazing, so I don't even want to go in and talk about or describe what you went through. I told her I even put on waterproof mascara because I don't cry, as everyone knows, on my shows, except once, and I think this might be another one. But I don't want to take away from you the opportunity to tell your story and what you endured. So could you like just kind of tell us an overview of what you went through? And before you do, everybody needs to grab some Kleenexes, because, I'm not kidding, it is so heart wrenching that you're going to go through a roller coaster of emotion.
Speaker 2:So I wrote a book called Girl Hidden and it took me 25 years to write, because I grew up with a mother who was a charismatic narcissist and a stepfather who literally treated me like his girlfriend from the time I was five. I was kidnapped twice. Before I was eight years old I was in hiding for several years from the sheriff, the local sheriff and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. I have delivered babies, I have been in hiding and I escaped and jumped right into an inner city religious commune and then I was there for 12 years and ran away from there and started my life for real in my 30s. So I guess like the best way to start this is yes, obviously trigger warnings. Oh my God. But like many things in my life, it starts with my mother. So my mom was 19 when she gave birth to me. I would have been her seventh abortion by the time she was 19.
Speaker 2:You were born in Spain. I was born in Rota, spain. She was in the Navy Right and big Navy family my grandpa's in the Navy, my uncle's in the Navy Cousins in the Navy, like big Navy family. And then my mother married a Marine so much drama. So mama was in Spain and found out that she could get out of the Navy if she had a baby, so she decided to put me up for adoption. Sweet little family in the Air Force decided they were going to adopt me. Three weeks before I was born, mama was told that she couldn't get out of the Navy unless she kept the baby, and so she told the sweet little family no, I'm keeping the baby. Three weeks later I was born and she spent the next three months trying to kill me, to the point where, when I I was three weeks old, I was actually smaller than I was when I was born because, she was starving me to death.
Speaker 2:Um, I have the letters from the doctor. It was pretty bad and of course this was obviously one thing. Overseas also, navy also, cps wasn't really a thing back then. This was way back in the day. So she got out of the Navy, moved home to Vashon Island, which is a tiny little island in the Puget Sound just off of Seattle, moved back home with her parents and proceeded to go back to her regular ways of partying, gentleman callers, whatever it was she was doing, trying to make a million dollars selling crystal vases, I don't know.
Speaker 2:And for two years she kind of went back and forth this guy, that guy and my grandmother basically became my full time caretaker, because anytime she would say Dolores, this is your kid, you need to take care of this baby. Mama would take me to her parties and leave me with whoever, for however long, and sometimes not with anyone. So grandma and an active protection would take care of me most of the time. At some point in my second year mama met a guy, immediately decided they were getting married, went off to Canada, took me with them. Some small abuses happened there, nothing that I particularly remember, just stories that I've heard. She came back home, dropped me off with grandma and said I have to go fix my marriage. It's six months and it's falling apart. And grandma was like, okay, I'll keep her, but you're signing her over to me, I'll pay for it.
Speaker 2:Best gift ever. My grandmother did not mess around, and so my mother was like okay, I'm free, it's all yours. And so we held a family meeting.
Speaker 2:This is her mom. This is her mom, my, my, my grandma. Prudence, um, tiny little redhead, she's five foot nothing. Little little Irish, irish gal, yeah. And they put me in the middle of the living room and had a big family meeting with both my aunties and my uncle and said who's going to take her? And my auntie Mabel was like I will, I want a baby, and Jesse and I have a great relationship. I'm going to be her new mom. So we started the adoption process and six months after I moved in, her husband at the time who I will not name but should be sat her down and said look, I don't want to pay for child support if we get divorced. And so my auntie was like grandma, you got to take her back. I don't know what to do.
Speaker 1:I would have opened the door and said don't let the door hit you with a good Lord, split you out.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying but you, you know you do you boo. So, um, and of course that marriage lasted like two whole minutes after that, because why would you know? Um. So I ended up with my grandmother and until I was five at some point, uh, my mother uh got divorced from the Canadian guy, moved back home to Vashon Island and as my grandmother was getting me ready for the day super early in the morning, getting me ready for the day, getting herself ready for work, getting ready to get on the ferry to go across to Seattle for work, ready for work, getting ready to get on the ferry to go across to Seattle for work, she goes to wake mama up and is like okay, I, you know, I need you to babysit, I have to go to work.
Speaker 2:And my mother came out of the bedroom and was like I had an abortion yesterday and I have to go to the emergency room right now. The baby's coming. And my grandmother was like I have no one to, okay, so she piles me into the car, piles mama into the backseat, mama's bleeding everywhere, she's a mess, she's crying, grandma's trying to figure out what to do. Of course it's like you know, 10 minutes to the ferry, 30 minute ferry ride and at some point during the ferry ride my mother gave birth to an unalive baby in the back seat of the car and I saw the whole thing at five.
Speaker 2:I was two. That was when I was two, do you? You don't remember that? That right, I don't remember it. I remember the after effects of it, sure? Um, so I was a.
Speaker 2:I was an extremely smart little girl, like when I was four. Grandma actually had me tested and in one of the boxes she sent me. I'm going through all these boxes and I see this test and I'm like, oh, what's this IQ test? 145. 145 at four. So the yay me. But also when you're, when you have a really high IQ, one of the challenges of that is you understand things faster than your brain actually has developed to comprehend it. So I became very I guess morose would be a good word Like I would have full fledged funerals for butterfly wings, like. But I don't remember the actual event except for my grandmother's journals. That's the only way I knew that happened.
Speaker 2:After that my mom packed up her stuff and said I've got to go, start my life and move to North Carolina. When I was five she sent a letter to grandpa which I have the letter as well that basically said because she had already reached out to grandma and said can I have my daughter back? And grandma was like when hell freezes over. And so she sent a letter to grandpa and said, daddy, I've got my life together about it. And said, daddy, I've got my life together. She was. She had joined a cult and met a man there and married him, robert, my stepfather. They had proceeded to pop out to Beautiful Baby Boys and they had a house, so her life was going exactly the way she wanted it to, finally, and she wanted her daughter back. Now Grandpa and I have talked about this since he had just retired from the Navy and was ready to start his life for real, and having an emotionally damaged, highly needy, extremely hyperactive child living in his house was not part of the plan. And so he said yes, and my grandmother, being the good Christian woman who believed in submitting to her husband, packed me up on a plane, flew me across the United States where I met my stepfather and my two siblings, and my mother, dropped me off at the airport and left, and before she left, she handed me my Timmy bear and I turned around and I gave it back to her because I knew if she had Timmy, she'd have to come back to give him to me. I knew I'd see her again.
Speaker 2:I was five and I went home to live with the Taylors and immediately became the house servant. It was my job to care for my siblings. I was changing diapers, I was cleaning the house. I was fixing meals. I was five and I was changing diapers. I was cleaning the house, I was fixing meals. I was five and I was fixing meals. I was taking care of the pets and we had a very hyperactive black lab. My parents were terrible with animals, absolutely terrible. This beautiful black Labrador literally lived in a six foot by six foot cage her entire life she got.
Speaker 2:Then Papa came home with a dalmatian and if anybody, if you know anything about dalmatians, they are very high needs dogs. They need a lot of attention and time and this one in particular, uh lady, needed medication on a regular basis because of the level of anxiety. She couldn't live in the firehouse anymore and it was my job to feed her. Now I am five years old, I am, all of you know, 40 pounds, 80 pounds maybe you know somewhere in that and, of course, this dog is 120. And um, papa put her in a shed with no windows and turned the lights off and said I'll build her a cage for outdoors. Next week, six months later, it hadn't happened.
Speaker 2:Now, looking at this from an adult perspective, like I wrote the story from an adult perspective and then I also rewrote it in the way that I experienced it as a small person. Right, it was my job to take care of the animals, taking care of the animals when you'd open the shed door and this dog would frantically try to get out to see sunlight, to experience life. Yeah, and she's bigger than me, and I forgot to feed her and I forgot to water her.
Speaker 1:You're five yeah.
Speaker 2:Anybody with kids knows if you get a dog or a cat or a gerbil for your kid, that's now your gerbil Right. Absolutely Occasionally the kid will be involved, but for the most part no.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And when I finally remembered to go and feed the dogs, I opened the door to the shed, flipped the light bulb on and lady was laying on the floor barely breathing. She had eaten through both of her dog bowls to get any sustenance off of them and I went running in the house in tears because I knew I had messed up and Papa came out, told me to go inside.
Speaker 2:No no no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2:I went inside and I put the boys to bed because it was close to bedtime and I waited until I couldn't wait anymore and I went to the back door and I opened it and Papa was sitting on the porch swing on the patio with Lady wrapped up in his coat and he was trying to force feed her some milk.
Speaker 2:And I opened the door and the door squeaked and he looked at me and I went back inside and the next morning at breakfast he said kids, you should know that Lady went to be with Jesus. And he looked at me again and that was the last time we ever talked about lady and let me tell you I lived with that guilt to date. I mean, even like as an adult, like you, you look back and you see these things from an adult perspective and you go now wait, just a cotton pick in second here, right? So at this point in time, um, I had been informed by both of my parents, not just in no uncertain terms but also verbally, on a regular basis, that as a good, godly christian young lady, that my job was to grow up and, as part of purity culture, that my job was to be a good wife and mother, to learn modesty and appropriateness and how to manage a family, and I was to practice that with my stepfather.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, in every way. I prayed for him every day. I made his lunches, I did his laundry, I picked up after him, I served his laundry, I picked up after him, I served him dinner. Where was your mom in all this, encouraging it so every night?
Speaker 1:What was our egg donor doing at this point?
Speaker 2:They would go into the boys room at night and sing them Jesus songs, and then they would pray with them and put them to bed. And then they would pray with them and put them to bed. And then they would come into my room and they would sing Jesus songs and they would pray with me, and then Mama would go back to her room and leave Robert with me.
Speaker 1:Did she know what he was doing? Oh yeah, and where is egg donor now?
Speaker 2:Technically we don't know. We think we know where she might be, but that's also a long story, not a part of my world, to say the least. Good, good for you. Oh yeah, she can sit on a stick and spin.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:But yeah, that's yeah. So I was supposed to stay in North Carolina for 90 days. The plan was that this was going to be a test to see how well Jessie fit in. How was she doing? Is this a good thing for her? My grandmother insisted that I continue my education. My grandmother insisted that I continue my education, and so she was paying for a private Christian school in this small town in North Carolina so that I would continue to actually get an education, because, as Mama loved to say, girls don't need to know any more math than you need to triple a batch of pancakes. Yeah, so education not really important. As a matter of fact, my mother was the first family in North Carolina to set up a home school as soon as it became legal. And, yeah, there's some connections there too. I'll get to um, so I'm going to this private Christian school until my next baby brother was born, um, which is actually one of my favorite stories, uh, of my entire life.
Speaker 2:I was, uh, six years old and we had driven up to Delaware. Um piled us all in the back of the pickup truck with camper shell on and a bunch of blankets, and in December, we drove all the way up to Delaware. I cannot believe you put small children in the back of a pickup truck. We actually had at one point in my life we actually had a car seat that we would put the baby in in the back of the pickup truck, not strapped to anything. I can't, it's too much anyway. Um, so we get up to Delaware. This is where Robert's uh mom lived. She lived in a little tiny trailer and you know it's. We were going to do Christmas on the 23rd, drive back home on the 24th and do our family christmas at home. Mama is pregnant. She is 98 months pregnant.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, this is oh like the most person.
Speaker 2:I'm the oldest of eight. My mother has had 18 pregnancies. With the last baby I mean, of course, you know the last baby she literally delivered her uterus. Her uterus was like I'm out, it comes out with the baby. And when I asked her about this of course at this time, an adult I'm like does this mean maybe, maybe, maybe, no more kids, is that? And she's like oh, no, I can still have kids. They tacked it back in. It's fine woman. Yeah, be done. You've spread your seed, let it go.
Speaker 2:But mama, um, uh, was connected to the quiverful movement. I don't know if you've heard of that um, where you know, there's one verse in the bible that says uh, children are the arrows in a man's quiver. Happy is the man whose quiver is full, and a full quiver arrows is 13. So that was my mother's goal and she would tell us that if each one of her children had 10, if she had 10 children and each of her children had 10 children and each of them had 10 children that all served God, she would have created her own army was the abuse still transpiring between you and Robert.
Speaker 2:That went on until I was six and a half, which really funny. When I started writing this book, I started writing it just to sort of get things down on paper, because my mother liked to take a different version of the story and try to recreate it in your head.
Speaker 1:Typical narcissism.
Speaker 2:Very, very typical. So I would write a chapter and then I would get a letter from my grandmother, or a box, because she saved everything. I ended up with almost 40 boxes of court documents and FBI files and psychiatrist notes and her journals, and just I have every letter that my mother wrote to her.
Speaker 1:It sounds just like me. Where's Robert?
Speaker 2:Robert is dead. He passed away two years ago. Two years, two years ago.
Speaker 1:And she stayed married to him all this time.
Speaker 2:Actually. So all of the kids are grown. They all left at different times with different reactions from the family, and the youngest, a girl, was mama's hope baby. I guess you would say this was she was going to stay and take care of mama is what mama thought. And when she left and got married and started cutting ties with my parents, my mother cut her off because how dare you break loyalty to me, right and Papa ended up in the emergency room with a stroke Now.
Speaker 1:did Robert assault any of the other kids?
Speaker 2:No, oh no, and thank God, god, for that not even this little girl no, I've asked. I've asked every one of them. Yeah, I was very concerned about one of my sisters, um, because of the way that she acted and dressed when she was younger just from, like the random pictures I'd get as the kids got older and reconnected with me.
Speaker 2:I would get little like snippets of information, and so I was kind of concerned because you know, she dressed like a boy, she liked to haircut short, she wanted to make herself not look attractive like a little girl.
Speaker 2:Kind of what I thought turns out she's lesbian right, that's not what you would think in the beginning absolutely not, not from my experience so yeah, but I've, I've definitely had like full conversations with all of my, my sisters, to you know, kind of make sure, um, oh, but anyway, so let me. Let me go back to the Christmas story. So we're all up at grandma's in Delaware and it's Christmas morning, christmas the 23rd, and I wake up and I'm like and I go running out and my stepfather's sister is in the living room but nobody else. The rest of the house is quiet and I was like it's Christmas morning and she goes no back to bed. So I go back to bed, fell back asleep, wake up an hour later, wake my brothers up, because if they're up it's Christmas morning. And so we go stomping out into the living room and mom is there and pop is there and the coffee's brewing and grandma's up and okay.
Speaker 2:And I was the only child who knew how to read at this point. So I got to play Santa Claus and so I'm passing out presents and I'm like here's this present to this person and this present to this brother, and I reach underneath the Christmas tree and there's a sheepskin behind the presents and on the sheepskin is the world's tiniest baby. And I reached in ever so carefully and I picked up my new baby brother and I looked at my mom and I was like what's happening? And she's like that's your new little brother. I had the baby this morning and she put him under a tree For me to find him. I mean, yes, but also, you know, we'll take it as a way, yeah, but also under a life, okay, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're on the same page, right. Yeah, there's so many other ways to yeah, okay, sure.
Speaker 2:So, anyway, fast forward, and I'm six and a half years old and at this point we have crossed the 90 days line by a lot. Yeah, turns out I find out later that my mother had turned off the phone. She was, uh, sending letters that my aunties and my grandmother would send to me. Um, she would write return to sender and send them back. I was informed that my grandmother had abandoned me, that both my aunties didn't love me anymore because I was bad, all of the wonderful things that narcissists like to tell children.
Speaker 2:Meanwhile, my grandmother is like I have custody of this kid. What the no? So she finally said I think it was a telegram to my mom and was like I'm showing up next week With or without the police is your choice. And mama was like I'm showing up next week With or without the police is your choice. And mama was like, oh, I don't understand. I just haven't gotten any of those letters. That's so weird. Well, yeah, we turned the phone off because you know, sure? So my grandmother shows up for five days, and at this point I have been informed in no uncertain terms that I'm not to talk about what is going on for Robert by both of my parents that grandma wouldn't understand that papa could go to jail and if he did it would ruin the family and it would be my fault that my siblings would go into foster care and I'd never see them again.
Speaker 1:So you have the weight of the world.
Speaker 2:Weight of the world.
Speaker 1:And everything else possible on you.
Speaker 2:So at that point Grandma was there for five days. I was never left alone with her.
Speaker 1:I knew that was coming.
Speaker 2:Absolutely not. Mama was right up my ass the entire freaking time. And finally Grandma, who now understand. My mother is 5'10" and a big girl. My grandmother is 100 pounds on nothing at five feet tall, and she stands up to her daughter and it's like I have custody of jesse. We are going out to lunch do not argue with me about this and we go to mcdonald's because chicken nuggets, and so we're sitting in the car in the parking lot and she goes okay, kid, what the hell is going on? And I'm like nothing, everything's good, something, something jesus. And she's like okay, but it's just, it's me what's happening. And I told her I was like this is what robert's doing and it makes me uncomfortable and I don't know what to do. So we made a plan right there in the parking lot because you told her. You actually confessed Absolutely Good for you, everything Good for you, which, knowing what I know now as an adult most children that's an oddity that I would speak up about this.
Speaker 2:It is that kind of abuse doesn't come out until you're an adult.
Speaker 1:That's correct.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. So we made a plan because my stepfather is six foot two and a Marine, my mother is five, 10 and dangerous, and so we decided that I was going to say goodbye in the morning, just like every day, and go to my little private Christian school, and grandma was going to drop me off at the school and we were going to go to the airport. So we went to the school, I said goodbye and we went to the school and my grandmother had all this paperwork and was like I'm paying for the school. I have legal rights to Jesse. Do not call the Taylors and tell her she is not at school. We are escaping.
Speaker 1:This is when you got lost in the Atlanta airport.
Speaker 2:That was the second time I was kidnapped, yeah, so I went back and lived with grandma and grandpa. Now, at this point I'm in therapy, I'm in special classes. My life starts going back to some essence of normal. Now, at this point, grandma and grandpa had moved to a small town just outside of Seattle called Kent, so they were on the mainland and every night it was a retirement trailer park, and so every night they would leave their trailer after dinner and they would take a five minute walk and they would walk to the end of the lane where the mailboxes were, and they would get their mail and they would come back, and the whole time all they had to do is turn around to see the trailer. Like that line of sight was right there, but it gave them a whole five minutes of peace without a small hyperactive, high needs individual in their face.
Speaker 2:Fine, so I am in my dress up clothes, I am barefoot. It is December, I'm listening to Bing Crosby's Christmas album, like you do, and I was allowed to listen to music even if the TV was on, because grandpa had these big old Navy clamshell headphones that he had in the navy that were like the size of my tiny little head until I had this on this record on. And I'm dancing around with my giant headphones and grandma and grandpa are like going for a walk, we'll be back in five minutes. And I'm like whatever I'm doing stuff, and off they go, they leave. No less than two minutes later there's a knock on the door.
Speaker 2:I, being a small person at this point I'm seven walk over, throw the door open, hello, and there was a stranger there, somebody that I've never met before, a young lady with brown hair. And she says come quickly, your mommy's in the car. And I went. I knew this one. Hang on, stranger danger. What am I supposed to say? What am I supposed to say? No, ma'am, I don't talk to strangers. And she goes oh, oh, you're a very good girl.
Speaker 2:And she left and I was gobsmacked yeah, my gobs were smacked Right. And I shut the door and I went. I should call one of the aunties, because both my aunties lived like within a half mile of where I was and this was obviously before the day of cell phone. So I walk over to our little rotary phone. I pick up the phone, I start dialing the number, all of a sudden the door bursts open and all 510 of my mother storms into the room, grabs me by the arm, kicking and screaming, tore me down the steps. Understand I am barefoot. It is cold. In December I had splinters up and down my arms from trying to grab.
Speaker 2:They can see this. They had their backs to us. They can see this. They had their backs to us. Threw me in the back of the car next to my little brother, who had been born the previous Christmas, who immediately starts freaking out because I'm in hysterics and we peel out with the strange lady driving my mother in the passenger seat, flips around and starts screaming at me to shut the hell up, you're upsetting your brother. Look what you're doing to the baby. By the time my grandparents got back to the trailer, there were six police cars in the front of their house Because a neighbor had seen the whole thing and it called the police. We drove three hours across state lines into.
Speaker 2:Oregon which alerted, or connected the FBI to the situation and we my mother at that point was involved with a religious group called Women Exploited by Abortion, or WIVA for short, and Mary Sue, the lady who was driving her, was her bestie, and I believed all of the stories that Mama had said about all the abuse that I was suffering at the hands of my grandparents, and so they had flown out to Washington State and tracked me for three days, waited for my grandparents to leave for the walk and kidnapped me.
Speaker 2:We get to another lady who was involved with Weeva, lived down in a little house just outside of Portland and we got there at night. We got there at night at one point during the drive, right after we had crossed state lines, we pulled over to a gas station and my mother turns around and says do you want to talk to your grandma? And I said yes, please. And she's like okay, we're gonna call her, but if you cry I'm taking the phone away, okay. So I sucked it up. Mama carried me because it was freezing cold gravel. I'm barefoot, in dress-up clothes and I don't know if you remember, but remember pay phones with like.
Speaker 1:I remember.
Speaker 2:I remember the rotary phone the the glass doors that like fold open and you sort of tucked yourself in. So she tucked, we tuck into this little like phone booth.
Speaker 1:It's a phone booth. People who are still Googling what a rotary phone is.
Speaker 2:There you go and she sets me down on the cold cement and she puts a quarter in and she dials my grandmother. And my grandmother, you have to understand, is one of the most stoic women I have ever met. She is unflappable, absolutely unflappable. I've never heard her this mad. I could hear her through the phone screaming you bring my granddaughter back this minute. And my mother, cool as a cucumber, do you want to talk to Jessie? And she hands me the phone and I said grandma, and she goes, jesse, and I lost it. I started sobbing she took the phone away.
Speaker 2:She took the phone away, grabbed me by the arm, opened the door, threw me onto the gravel and shut the door again. And mary sue got out of the car, came around and picked me up, put me into the back seat and I immediately fell asleep. My brain was done, I was broken. So that night I'm sleeping on the floor on a pile of blankets at this lady's house and Mary Sue has fallen asleep. Mama's nurse is a baby. The baby's asleep and it's just the two of us and it's quiet. And she very quietly, very coldly, lights into me. How dare you betray the family? What would make you want to go with your grandmother? How, how dare you? And I told her what Robert was doing and she was quiet and she listened and she said, oh God, I hope you didn't tell your grandmother. That Rolled over and went to sleep. It was the only time we talked about it.
Speaker 1:The next morning.
Speaker 2:I was dressed as a little boy, with my hair tucked up inside a cap, I went under the name Jeremy that's what my ticket said and I flew with Mary Sue back to North Carolina. Ticket said and I flew with Mary Sue back to North Carolina. My mother my mother wore a wig and sunglasses and carried a baby. From my understanding, there were two FBI agents on the plane. They saw me, but they were after mama, so they waited. They lost us in the Atlanta airport when I changed into a little girl and mama changed out of her wig. Two days later I think it was two days three police cars drove up beside our house at the driveway and papa walked into my bedroom, didn't say a word I was playing with my, my ponies and put me in a coat, dropped me outside the window to a neighbor who hid me in her closet for three hours was this a one-story home house?
Speaker 2:it was a one. It was a two-story house. We lived on the first floor okay, so it wasn't like better.
Speaker 2:Not that that makes it any better, no, but at least I wasn't like flung like here, right, and that was the last time I I didn't see my siblings on any kind of a regular basis or my parents on any kind of a regular basis. For over two years I was passed around from family to family that were attached to either the cult that mama was in or the Weeva program. Yeah, and there was a massive legal battle going on behind the scenes, which I have all the court documents for. Thank you, grandma. It clarified a lot of things in my life as I. She slowly sent me box after box, my life as I. She slowly sent me box after box.
Speaker 2:Um, and at the end of it so there was a judge in Washington, in Washington state, that said not only should my parents not have custody of me, that there should be question on whether they should have custody of the other children in the home. Yeah, he also said if this case does not get settled, I'm putting a note in this file that it comes back to me. So if this comes back to North Carolina court, you're going through me again. They took it to Washington, to Washington state, same situation. The judge was like yeah, hell, no, hell, no. Then I went back to North Carolina and I have, I have the court documents and the judge said in the transcript I see here a note from Judge so-and-so that he wanted custody of this case. I'm denying that. Make a note. I'm denying that, may not make a note. So I think that Jesse has been passed around back and forth between you two for long enough and mothers have rights. Dolores gets custody of Jesse how old are you?
Speaker 1:as nine didn't he even take you in chambers and ask you what you wanted oh no, I was.
Speaker 2:I wasn't hiding. They didn't know where I was. Oh okay, this was okay.
Speaker 1:Okay, the police were still looking for me, okay I didn't think that was in that two year okay yeah okay now I do.
Speaker 2:It's at one point during this situation, and I'm not sure exactly, when I was interviewed over the phone by a social service worker. They brought in an older male social service worker to talk to me about where did your father touch you and couldn't for the life of them figure out why I didn't want to talk about it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, so yeah. Want to talk about it, right, oh right, so yeah. And after the judge said that, my grandfather stood up. My grandfather stood up, pointed his whole hand at the judge and called him a son of a bitch. And the judge said that'll be 500 contempt of court. And my grandfather looked at my grandmother and said Prudence, how much money we got in the bank Because I got some more shit to say. Good for him, he's kind of a badass. So the Taylors got custody of me and all of the abuse that followed Shortly after they got custody of me and all of the abuse that followed Shortly after they got custody of me. We moved to the Lyle Down estate, which was an absolutely breathtaking southern mansion Three stories. It was the first home in the state of North Carolina to have a working elevator what did they do to have that kind of money, to have that home?
Speaker 2:Oh, it was gifted to them what. My mother's an amazing salesman, and so she contacted the church that owned this property and said so this would make a great home for unwed mothers. Now you have to understand something the whole time that I was growing up, from five years old, there was always always someone living in our house about to pop a baby out. Now what my mother would do is she would bring some poor, unsuspecting younger woman into our home with a pregnancy that was unwanted and convince them that abortion was evil, that they would go to hell for it, that they could not raise the baby. There's no way that you would make a good parent.
Speaker 1:Even if she had eight abortions herself.
Speaker 2:Yep, mama was even on the 700 Club. Oh, stop it Twice. I have the DVD Blew my mind to the point where Pat Robertson may he burn in hell. Pat Robertson literally looked at my mom and went no, they're not using fetus parts for makeup. And she's like, oh yes, they are absolutely. I'm sorry, but if you can blow Pat Robertson's mind, say it. Oh yeah, she got her own video montage. I don't. So yeah, and this is actually when she was pregnant with the baby that I found under the christmas tree was the first time she was on. She actually traveled the country doing speaking engagements for weva, talking about, um, how tragic all of the abortions were and how evil it was of her, and how, what. Oh yeah, how are you sane? Therapy, medication, good choices? I don't know.
Speaker 1:You broke the cycle.
Speaker 2:I'm working my ass off to break that cycle too. Yeah, so we moved into the Laudana State and I don't know how much you want me to go into with some of the traumas, some of the abuses that happened there were pretty awful. The Lyle Down estate was an awful experience worse than with what happened with Robert yeah, ish different.
Speaker 2:After I titled on robert, he never touched me again. He never touched me again. He was scared for that. However, he did still treat me like his girlfriend, absolutely to the point where when we started college together when I was 17, people would come up and go um so how long have you guys been together? When I was 16, mama accused him of having an affair with me, which he told me about. He would take me to because I worked with him. Mama graduated me when I was 15, because at that point I was home educated.
Speaker 2:Mama graduated me when I was 15, and he would literally take me to work with him, show me off to all of his buddies, to the point where at one point I vividly remember we were at a friend of his who was a mechanic, nasty man, man who was literally ogling me, openly ogling me, talking about me like I was a piece of meat, to the point that I was so uncomfortable at him and Papa's giggling. I left and went and sat in the truck and when Papa finally came out and I just I couldn't even look at him. I was so freaking angry. And he looks at me and he goes. You know time. Just take your shirt off, maybe he'll leave you alone. Good talk, dad, that's yep, yeah, yeah. So I never talked again about what Michael did to me, but my mother.
Speaker 2:Who is Michael? Oh, sorry, you're going to have to edit that. Sorry, okay, I never talked again about what Robert did to me. Got it Until I was getting ready to get married when I lived at the inner city commune. Until I was getting ready to get married, when I lived at the inner city commune, I wanted to confess, to make sure that I wasn't crazy, because mama liked to say things like oh yeah, jesse, when you lived with your grandparents, you made up all sorts of stories about papa, to the point that I was questioning my own memory. And the other side of that was during the time that I was in hiding.
Speaker 1:I lost my memory Trauma response Trauma response.
Speaker 2:My brain was protecting me. Yes, I didn't remember my grandparents. I didn't remember my aunties. I knew they existed, but that was the extent of my relationship with that information.
Speaker 1:Absolutely correct.
Speaker 2:I did remember the kidnapping and I remembered that Papa was dangerous. Those are the only two things I didn't lose and I didn't start getting my memory back until I was well into my teen years, and then I would have these violent flashbacks that I would have to carry and figure out what to do with all on my own, living in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2:And because we, the Laudan estate was a failed experience. My mother did about $100,000 worth of damage to the property, to the point where the church could no longer hold services there. This house was breathtaking Velvet carpets. In the formal living room and dining room, instead of a silver-backed mirror, there was an eight-foot by eight-foot gold mirror hanging over a grand piano Like this is the level of beauty that was in this house and we trashed it, absolutely trashed it, um, and so we were evicted.
Speaker 2:The other side was I found out later when I was doing my research for this because I would write this, write the chapter and go okay, here's my memory of the abuses, the vicious beatings and, um, the mental terrors that went on in this house. Wait a minute. We were evicted. We came home and the doors were all locked. I wonder if that pastor's still alive.
Speaker 2:So I call pastor's dead, talk to the wife, and wife's like super cautious, talking to me like, oh, you're related to dolores taylor, I don't want to say anything to you. And I was like look, here's the deal. I'm away from my mom, I'm writing a book. Do you mind if I interview you? Yada, yada, yada, go, go, go. And she's like let me tell you what really happened. Dolores moved in informing us that they were going to make all the payments on the property. They were going to pay for the electricity, they were going to pay for the water, the trash, all of the things and the fixing up of this property, and we lost the property because of that. Because we were in the we, we had the information that she was paying all the bills and she wasn't paying anything. She did a hundred thousand dollars worth of damage, trust the property and left.
Speaker 1:I'm trying so hard to hold back tears of anger and sadness. It's so overwhelming. It's such a narcissist. I have to have you come back for a part two, because there's the narcissist. Are always spin it towards the victim, which will be me, the narcissist. I'm going to be the narcissist victim and you're just this horrible person because you're this child and I didn't ask you. Well, you didn't ask to be born and you know Right, and I get it. I was the black sheep. I totally understand this 1000%. Just to give you, because this is your episode, this is your interview. But my bio parents put my abusive ex-husband in my life and they knew who he was and what he would do. So that's not even my Ew, yeah, husband in my life and they knew who he was and what he would do. So that's not even my you. Yeah, so anyway, um, yes, so I totally get it. So I'm sitting here going, oh my god, because you're you can't call her mom, you, she's your egg donor.
Speaker 1:Your egg donor knows what's going on, there you go she is, and I'm literally feeling like this tightness in my chest because I so get it. And I know that so many of our listeners either have taken on this journey of healing and you know, every one step is a step in the right direction and I tell everybody they feel like their light has come off. But you know what? Even the tiniest little flicker can start a wildfire and it can bring back that light. And you know, I have people say to me Victoria, how is it that you pray for your ex every night? And I was like, because if you have one heart, and in that heart you have the ability to fill it with love and life and laughter and hope, and you know what you want to do with life, or you can fill it with misery and hate and you know sadness, and then you're filling it with what they want and they win. And you know what? Those assholes do not have that kind of power. Yep, they don't.
Speaker 2:they think they do they think, they do, they tell you that they do Right.
Speaker 1:And you know what I get it because, while you're saying all this, I'm literally like biting the bottom of my lip because you have all of this proof and you keep saying I have the court documents, I have the court, I have text messages and I have documents out the wazoo, just like you. And I'm sitting here going, oh my God, because at one point you do, you think this is my biological parents and you know they tell them this horrible person. Nothing I do is good enough. Nothing I have made my life into is good. I didn't ask to come here. You know. I didn't ask to be born. I definitely didn't ask to come to you.
Speaker 1:The only thing you have taught me is how I don't want to be as a person growing up, how I don't want society to know me, how you know. And for you to go through all this and hold your head high is such an absolute godsend inspiration, because so many people don't have that strength. And you know I look like for me. I look at all my scars and I look at all of the ones that I've had to have surgery on my injuries and things, and I look like for me. I look at all my scars and I look at all of the ones that I've had to have surgery on my injuries and things.
Speaker 1:And I look and I go, you know what? And I didn't do this at first because at first I thought I was told that I look like Freddy Krueger and the elephant man had a baby. And yeah right. And I was told, hey, take a sharpie marker on a Saturday night and connect the dots to all your scars. You'll be busy for hours and right and so like if I celebrated, say, for instance, it was three years since I was, you know, in the abusive marriage, my bio dad would say why don't you go slam your hand in the door so you don't forget what it felt like? And I have the text messages of that.
Speaker 2:And you sit there and you start, my head is going to fall off and roll onto the floor.
Speaker 1:What Right? This is why I'm saying for you, like for you, I get it. And you know something? So many people are going through so many different types of healing but still, you know they say that you marry at some point the male role model in your life, that through all that, because that's who primes you, it is their responsibility to protect you.
Speaker 1:Giving birth is not a form of birth control. You know there's so many people out there who would love to have kids, who aren't able to for one reason or another. If you can't handle being a mom, there are plenty of people out there who can. You know there are so many people out there who would give you the best life possible and for people to say, hey, you just turn your back is, is mind blowing to me. And then you know this is a person that carried you in their room, that you know you there's that carried you in their room, that you know there's that connection in there and you just don't understand it. And then you look at them and go why me? Why is it me that you hate with such a vengeance? That if I was on fire, you wouldn't even pee on me? Right, my sibling walks the moon. Why is that that they walk the moon and I'm the horrible person.
Speaker 2:What am I doing? Narcissists feed off of drama.
Speaker 1:There's drama.
Speaker 2:And if there is no drama, they will create that drama they create it all day long, but I'm just saying.
Speaker 1:I know you think, why is it that I'm the bad one? Why is it that I'm the person that she hates so much and turns a blind eye to? But my brother can do no wrong, and you know, like if your brother did something you would get blamed for it, and that makes no sense. Why can I? This is what I can't wrap my head around. How can a mother love one child so much and despise another child so much? I mean, as a mom myself, I can't wrap my head around. How is that possible? How can you despise somebody that you gave life to and yet worship the ground you walk on with another child you gave life to?
Speaker 2:because I didn't do that deeply broken inside and realizing so. I have to say, though, when you recognize that your parental unit, or your spouse, or whoever it is that you're in some form of relationship with, is a narcissist, you recognize that they are sick. Yes, this is just as bad as having a malignant cancer exactly.
Speaker 2:even if this is the like, my mother believes down to her core that what she did was right, that beating my little brother until he was unconscious was right because God told her to break his spirit. You know what? Fuck you, first of all. Second of all, whether or not they're sick doesn't give them the right to abuse.
Speaker 1:See, that's what I hear all the time, jessie, I hear all the time. You know, well, my husband was sick, or my husband, you know, was beaten as a child, so that's why he beats me and that makes it okay. No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. And you're the perfect person for me to say this to you. And I have absolutely, hands down, earned the right to have a breakdown from hell. And you know what. We haven't done it. We aren't going out and beating people. We're not going out there and causing physical anguish on other people. But you know, other people can say, well, my husband got beat when he was a kid, so it's okay he beats me. No, it's not Break the cycle.
Speaker 1:If you are a man quote, unquote and you feel the urge to put your hands on somebody, that doesn't make you a man, it makes you a freaking coward. You know, absolutely. You want to be a man, turn around and walk out. You know, if you want to go and put your hands on somebody, hit yourself, don't, you know. But then you want to act like a little bitch baby and say, oh, no, no, no, no, don't, or my favorite.
Speaker 2:Look what you made me do.
Speaker 1:Oh, I heard really, I heard that every day, every day. It doesn't matter, because then I tell people this all the time. People say why'd you stay? You know the whole smear.
Speaker 1:Here's the thing. You can do everything right. You can have the dinner on the table, you can have the house, you can have the laundry done, the bed made, whatever it is. If somebody cuts him off on the table, you could have the house, you could have the laundry done, the bed made, whatever it is. If somebody cuts him off on the way home, if somebody gives him crap at the office, if his mistress doesn't want to see him that night, whatever the case is, and something negative happens, he maybe missed the red light and and turned on red. Whatever the case is, he's going to come home and he's going to take it out on you regardless.
Speaker 1:And it is not, and it is not your fault. It is not your fault. It is not your fault. I will say that until I'm blue in the face. It is not your fault. And to turn around and say, oh well, you know, he had a shitty childhood. We should not have to spend our adulthood recovering from our childhood Preach. We shouldn't. We absolutely should not. You know, my daughter could come in here right now and she'll tell you mommy's never screamed at me, mommy's never yelled at me, mommy's never spanked me. But my daughter will come in here and tell you that she has the. She's the best manner. She'll say thank you and you're welcome. And may I and please. Her thing is just like I've said from day one try to make somebody smile once a day and watch how that affects the world because it makes a huge difference.
Speaker 1:I mean, my daughter is still my mini me and she will hold her own. She will rip you down one side of the other. She won't start it but she'll finish it, and that's a girl. She has a voice and I've told her from day one. You use that voice and you let it be heard and I will back you 1 million percent. But there are ways, and I tell people this all the time. I tell people, you know, if anybody has the reason to like I've been on a couch for a therapist for more decades than I care to count to you know, if my daughter say, for instance, she didn't do her book report, I would say you know what Faith I love you and I'm so proud of you you are. My greatest honor is being your mom. I don't, however, like how you chose not to finish your book report so because you chose not to complete your book report.
Speaker 1:You chose to give me your phone for the night. I'm not taking the phone from you. You're choosing to give it to me because your priorities are not accurate right now. We can talk about it. I love you. I don't raise my voice, but you know what you chose to give me your phone. So, thank you, so you can have it back tomorrow. And if the book report's not done, you choose to keep letting me have it. So, and I have done that with her, that's so empowering.
Speaker 2:That's so empowering because the first thing and I've just you know this, but the first thing an abuser does is take your voice away, absolutely, gaslight you to the point where you start thinking, well, okay, so let me see, I didn't do the dishes, and and then you beat me and and that was, but that was my fault, okay, all right. Well, I'm embarrassed. Now I'm not going to talk about it, I'm sorry. What? Yeah, and it gets it so, and especially with a child, to do something like that to a child. They don't even have the ability to have a voice yet.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I can't, it's right and that's why you know now I've been no contact with my bio parents for years. But my, my daughter has met them and she knew them and you know they were around at a point. But if they open their mouth in a derogatory manner, immediately she would come get me and immediately I'm like oh, away, I'll handle this. She's like I'm not going anywhere. I want to hear this and you know I would instantly be like you are not going to talk to my daughter that way, you're not going to address that way. They have no respect for boundaries, as narcissists do not care about your boundaries. You know like my bio dad used to use us as an excuse for his extramarital affairs and he would say if you tell your grandma about it, then I will, you know, ruin you and you can't do this. And my daughter would say my mom taught me not to lie.
Speaker 1:And he was a girl and she said you know, you know he goes. Well, I'll bribe you, you know. And he would bribe her. And she's still a kid.
Speaker 1:And so at one point I went to my bio mom, for whatever reason, because she hated me. She told my kid if I passed away she wouldn't care and that she didn't love me. And so I went to her and the last time I physically have seen her I said I'm not trying to be ill will or malice, I'm not trying to come in here and make you feel horrible, but you don't know this man. And I said, and I and this again is your show, but just, I had proof out the wazoo, like you, and I showed her everything, but she doesn't want to give up her mansion, she doesn't want to give up her stuff because, you know, money buys comfort but it doesn't buy love. And that's why it's a cold, clammy place.
Speaker 1:And you know what I would love? I would much rather have my home versus that house, because there's a huge difference. And I would rather have my, my family, which is unconditional, loving family, than to be like you just touched that wall. It'll cost me 10 grand to repaint it. You know, live life. You can't take this shit with you when you die, you can't, and stop turning shit around to play the victim when you've done nothing good for yourself nothing. But you make us to be the bad person every chance you get, like we are just this horrible person and it just is not right and for everybody to say, well, they should be forgiven for whatever reason. They shouldn't. They're a grown ass human being. Get your shit straight, get it right. It took me a long time to come out of my shell, believe me, and I still walk on eggshells, but that doesn't give me the right to go in and raise my hand to anybody Absolutely not. It's not okay, it is not acceptable and that's what we need to be doing to make it stop.
Speaker 2:I defended my stepfather and his actions until I was well into my 30s.
Speaker 1:Excuse me, jess, you got to tell everybody where to get this book.
Speaker 2:So Girl Hidden is the name of the book. It's girlhiddencom. It's available on Amazon and anywhere. Any of your local bookstores can order it for you. If you want to support your local bookstores, go for it. Obviously, barnes and Noble's that kind of place also has it. We did an audio book because I am ADHD and have to have something going on with my hands at the same time that I'm reading, something going on with my hands at the same time that I'm reading. So I listen to audiobooks and the lady who did the audiobook is incredible, made me cry, made me cry. She even did the little like southern accents oh my god, so cute. And the part where I talk about Papa singing my brothers to sleep. I had to stop listening. I was so grossed out. She actually emailed me multiple times during the course of the recordings going did this really happen? No, really, no, really, really. Are you? Ew?
Speaker 1:I'm like, yeah, that's yeah, yeah, will you promise me that you will come back on again?
Speaker 1:I absolutely will yes, I'm gonna hold you to that. Okay, I'm going to have every place possible. I'm going to have her email me. So I know exactly and put it down verbatim everywhere you guys can go and find her and find her book and support her, just send her love, because she needs it. And she is a warrior and a fighter and a force to be reckoned with, because I mean, good night night. What she has gone through is such an inspiration to all of us. It's not a competition, it is a thriver who is here to support, just like we all are. I cannot thank you enough for being here and I am going to hold you to coming back.
Speaker 2:I would love to. That would be awesome and I will say um, the book does have a lot of trigger warnings in it, but it does have a happy ending oh, we love happy endings.
Speaker 1:That's the best you're looking at it, baby. Thank you so much for being with us today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I appreciate it of course.