Episode 05: Hebrews 1:1-4

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:
What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?
Toward what is God calling you in this text?
What message is God speaking to you or through you in this season?

Additional texts:
Isaiah 9:2-7
Psalm 96
Titus 2:11-14
Luke 2:1-20
Isaiah 62:6-12
Psalm 97
Titus 3:4-7
Isaiah 52:7-10
Psalm 98
John 1:1-14

Transcript

00:02.81
Nathan Pile
Hello, hello, hello and um a Merry Christmas to you ah So this is the ah the bonus episode of Christmas Eve um Though this drops probably about a week before um we are

00:11.73
Kevin Shock
Merry Christmas, everybody. Merry Christmas.

00:26.81
Nathan Pile
um and We are already in the Christmas mood, Kevin and I. So um he's got he's he's wearing tinsel and um some Christmas lights.

00:30.92
Kevin Shock
We are, we are, and this is

00:36.24
Nathan Pile
I'm not sure if his if Lisa just decided she was decorating Kevin and not the tree since he doesn't seem to be moving with his bad hip. um But that's what's going on. and That's what I see. um

00:48.11
Kevin Shock
Uh, remember Nathan, if people are on TikTok, they can see these, uh, they can see video of us.

00:52.49
Nathan Pile
Oh, that's right. I just boldface lied, everybody.

00:53.97
Kevin Shock
So they'll, they'll know that I'm not wearing tinsel or lights.

00:55.42
Nathan Pile
I'm sorry. ah

01:01.27
Kevin Shock
ah

01:01.44
Nathan Pile
it Well, we are glad to be with you, though, and nonetheless, and celebrating our our Christmas spirit. ah Today we're going to look at a reading from Christmas Eve, the Christmas Eve series of readings. ah We're gonna look at Hebrews, the first chapter, um verses one through four. Kevin and I are gonna read from the common English translation, ah a common English Bible translation today. ah You can follow along with whatever translation you have handy or you can look it up on Bible Gateway um and follow along with the common English Bible.

01:38.96
Nathan Pile
Our three questions questions this week are what word phrase or image strikes you in this text toward what is God calling you in this text? And what message is God speaking to you or through you in this season?

01:56.52
Kevin Shock
This is some information about your hosts, Kevin and Nathan. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white in our late forties, college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran church and we're born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this affects how we read scripture and discuss it, but none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else.

02:21.53
Kevin Shock
We believe that the wisdom of Scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another. So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience. ah Nathan mentioned that this is from the um ah Christmas Eve ah cadre of readings, but actually this is one of the Christmas Day appointed readings.

02:45.61
Kevin Shock
ah that I chose this year. So if you're if you're using this podcast to get the juices flowing for sermon preparation, ah you might wanna look back at season one or season two, Christmas Eve episodes to help get you thinking about some things.

02:48.73
Nathan Pile
Oh.

03:03.91
Kevin Shock
But ah as you'll hear at the end of the at the end of this episode, there are like 11 additional texts because I included all of the texts.

03:12.36
Nathan Pile
Mmm.

03:15.15
Kevin Shock
there are There are three three possibilities for texts that we can use in our church tradition for Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. And ah this is just one of the many. So today we are discussing Hebrews, the first chapter, verses one through four from the Common English Bible.

03:36.23
Kevin Shock
In the past, God spoke through the prophets to our ancestors in many times and many ways. In these final days, though, he spoke to us through a sun. God made his sun the air of everything and created the world through him. The sun is the light of God's glory and the imprint of God's being. He maintains everything with his powerful message.

04:00.01
Kevin Shock
After he carried out the cleansing of people from their sins, he sat down at the right side of the highest majesty, and the sun became so much greater than the other messengers, such as angels, that he received a more important title than theirs. If you are meeting with a group or with another person, ah we encourage you to pause the podcast now and ah ask one another the questions on your own.

04:27.32
Kevin Shock
ah Nathan, what word phrase or image strikes you in this text?

04:33.42
Nathan Pile
Um, actually, um, but it's it's in here. It's in the verse, second verse, but, um, the thing that really caught my attention and had my mind racing as I listened to you read was there's a, uh, in this translation, there's a title for each must be for each chapter.

04:54.89
Nathan Pile
And for this section, the title is the son is God's ultimate messenger.

04:56.74
Kevin Shock
Oh.

05:00.97
Nathan Pile
And so I looked at that and then i I don't want to say that I was tainted by it, but I was like it influenced my listening in an extreme way because I was already um kind of provoked by that title.

05:01.12
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

05:15.50
Nathan Pile
And so that idea that he spoke through the sun um obviously stuck out to me, but I i love this idea that Jesus is is God's um ultimate um communicator. And so one of the things that I spend a lot of time with our staff here is thinking about how we communicate um our mission and vision of ministry through all of the different ways that we need to communicate at camp. you know It's ah like ah um like we have to spend time talking about how we market. um And you know that's that you know I don't like that term because ah of it of what it

06:01.60
Nathan Pile
what it says yet at the same time I understand it. um Like we have to communicate what we do here or people don't know about it. um There's too many other messages in the world that ah and that if we don't talk about what we're doing at camp, um people won't hear it, won't think about it, um kind of a thing.

06:19.55
Nathan Pile
And so we we have to do that. And so here's this idea that God has this message too, that God wants to make sure it gets to the world. And that the end, like it when we don't know where else to look, when we don't know um what we can trust or what message we were you know we want to hear, a message from God, here it is.

06:34.40
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

06:43.18
Nathan Pile
Look to the sun um is kind of the the piece that this kind of jumps out at me as. And so this idea of of um

06:50.62
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

06:54.33
Nathan Pile
God speaks through Jesus the Son, ah Jesus the Christ, Jesus the Immanuel. um So you know for us as as as Lutheran Christians, for or at least I should say for me as a Lutheran Christian, when I'm not sure where where would God come down on this issue,

07:18.07
Nathan Pile
go to the Son.

07:20.96
Kevin Shock
Uh, yeah, yeah.

07:21.66
Nathan Pile
Go to Jesus the Christ. um here's the Here's the ultimate communicator, ah the ultimate marketer, the ultimate messenger of God is Jesus the Son. um And here is where he gets that title.

07:34.83
Nathan Pile
Hebrews decides to say Jesus is the one making is the is God's final messenger here to us.

07:39.58
Kevin Shock
who

07:41.51
Nathan Pile
And so um doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit isn't continuing to send us messages. But when we're when you're confused, when you're not sure where to look, go go to the go to God's ultimate messenger, um the one appointed to do so, and that is the Son.

07:56.10
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

07:58.90
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

07:59.29
Nathan Pile
So that's kind of what sticks out to me here.

08:00.06
Kevin Shock
Well. Yeah, and and just to just to comment briefly on what you just said there near the end, the the message of the Holy Spirit is the same message.

08:10.08
Nathan Pile
Absolutely is, yes.

08:10.47
Kevin Shock
It's it the the message of the God, the Father, Jesus, the Son, the Holy Spirit is the message that they're carrying. The message that they're giving is is a unified message.

08:22.11
Kevin Shock
it's It's all a message of the good news of salvation. Yeah.

08:25.36
Nathan Pile
No.

08:26.99
Kevin Shock
and And there's something else that, um I know you said you were shaped or you said tainted by but the yeah by the by the heading,

08:34.44
Nathan Pile
I did. Shaped is probably a better word. But yeah.

08:38.21
Kevin Shock
um but first verse three talks exactly what you were talking, says exactly what you were talking about there.

08:43.16
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

08:43.98
Kevin Shock
The sun is the light of God's glory and the imprint of God's being. That's an interesting ah turn of phrase, I think, but that's right, yeah. There's there's nothing, um There's nothing that is true about Jesus that isn't also true about the one who sent Jesus.

09:02.66
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

09:03.47
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

09:06.01
Nathan Pile
What about you, my friend? What word, phrase or image struck you?

09:09.68
Kevin Shock
um my Mine was also around message and maybe it's just because this is, ah this is that's what that's what these four verses are about. um but it is ah it's the second part of verse three. He maintains everything with his powerful message. um One reason that that captures my attention is that I don't think of God or Jesus. I think that he here is in reference to Jesus and don't think that Jesus. I don't think of Jesus as being a maintenance person. um I think of,

09:44.37
Kevin Shock
ah you know we We talk in the church about ah a maintenance versus a mission mentality or spirit.

09:50.19
Nathan Pile
Hmm.

09:51.19
Kevin Shock
um I don't think that Jesus maintains. I think that Jesus is about growth. Jesus is about um building. Jesus is about, ah yeah, ah growing and building.

10:04.78
Kevin Shock
those are Those are the two big things. one When I think about the spirit that Jesus brings into the world. um But, ah i don't know what I don't know what other translations say, but I wonder if that maintains everything isn't just about keeping the status quo, but it's about um undergirding everything.

10:28.30
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

10:28.60
Kevin Shock
That that that every everything is everything in the world is supported, every good thing in the world is supported with that powerful by that powerful message that Jesus brings, that message of salvation.

10:30.57
Nathan Pile
the

10:42.35
Kevin Shock
um

10:45.15
Kevin Shock
And it also,

10:49.35
Kevin Shock
as you as you were reading it, and as I was reading it, as one of us was reading it, I was reading it.

10:55.05
Nathan Pile
You read it.

10:55.72
Kevin Shock
I can never remember.

10:56.47
Nathan Pile
You read it.

10:57.01
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah. ah I, it It got me thinking that there's a difference between existing and living.

11:08.32
Nathan Pile
Mm.

11:08.86
Kevin Shock
And and that's what I hear, that's what this, this sentence in this in the middle of verse three brought to mind for me. um When we're talking about Jesus maintaining, we're not talking about Jesus just letting us all exist or letting creation exist. We're talking about Jesus giving us life. And that to me is different than just existing. um It's different both for individual human beings. And I think that

11:41.53
Kevin Shock
I don't know ah you know. Send us an email if you're if you're not sure what I mean about um the difference between existing and living. um Because I think that most of us intuitively know what that what I'm talking about there. you're not just You're not just a lump of breathing flesh. like there's There's more to your life than that. and And sometimes we live as though we are just a lump of breathing flesh.

12:08.74
Kevin Shock
um

12:09.12
Nathan Pile
Mmm.

12:10.02
Kevin Shock
but But living is about being in relationship, about um um having something having something to offer the world. and And when I say that, make no mistake, I don't mean that like you need to find your purpose or anything like that. And if you don't, like you're not living. What I mean by that is life, life in Jesus is everyone knowing what it is that they offer the world.

12:41.21
Kevin Shock
Everyone, because of Jesus, everyone does have something to offer the world. I can't tell you the number of times that I've had someone say to me, oh, I i don't know why I'm still here, especially when I was chaplainning in the retirement community.

12:55.08
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

12:59.44
Kevin Shock
um And I could easily say to them, I know why you're still here. look at look at the relation Look at the effect you have on people around here. Look at the relationships that you're building here. And i you know and and part of that is, like i understand that you're I understand that you're frustrated because of the way that life has changed for you and things have changed against your will. Things that are out of your control have changed. I understand being frustrated by that, but the amount of

13:32.64
Kevin Shock
The amount that I saw people in that situation being a beacon of good news for the people around them was phenomenal. um yeah know We just talked in our last episode about um God doing amazing things through, or God doing amazing work through small things, through insignificant things.

13:55.07
Kevin Shock
and and When people think that they're insignificant, I think that other people can often see what they have to offer the world. Even if the world is just the the little room where you eat lunch with your neighbors in the nursing home.

14:13.34
Nathan Pile
Hm.

14:13.47
Kevin Shock
Even if that's it, even if that's the entirety of the world, it makes a difference to those people. um So yeah, this isn't this isn't a message about finding your purpose and and doing something amazing.

14:27.69
Kevin Shock
This is that God has given us an amazing life and ah and and that life is brought about by the powerful message that Jesus brings us, the message of salvation and life and goodness and peace for all.

14:46.99
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

14:47.98
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

14:49.92
Nathan Pile
Well, and because you you were talking about a um ah piece of this, why I happened to um, um binge watch, Netflix just put out a, the the man or a man on the inside, which is a Ted Danson um thing and he he becomes a a private eye

15:12.21
Kevin Shock
oh Yeah.

15:16.51
Nathan Pile
in a nursing home, um but it's made up of all these little things. like it's a great like It's a great show. um ah really like um I binge watched it and um and ah in one day.

15:30.42
Nathan Pile
I watched all eight episodes. um Now they were only like a half hour long, but but you know it's Ted Danson in a different kind of a role, which I appreciated.

15:35.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

15:40.36
Nathan Pile
um um But he did, you know, it's all about those little things the of living as you as you kind of shared. And so it brought back that that TV show to me here that um different members of their their community did different things for each other and the impact that they had on each other's lives. And so um the beauty of this episode,

16:08.24
Nathan Pile
um theories is just that. it's It's very human. I think that's why I liked it so much um because there's sadness in it. There's um there's joy in it.

16:19.32
Kevin Shock
Hmm.

16:20.75
Nathan Pile
There's um the emotional ups and downs of of living life and and the way different people care for each other. So yeah, it it was just ah it was well done.

16:32.40
Nathan Pile
of well I really enjoyed it. There's not a lot of TV shows that I get into. I love the um the TED series that Apple TV did. um But this this was very, very good. um And so I do hope there's additional seasons. they you know They leave the opportunity for that at the end of it. But um but it would like how do we live life with those little things that we do for each other? um And and

17:08.39
Nathan Pile
And to me, that's part of the structure that maintains things in life. So when you you're earlier talking about the things that maintain life, um or that you know you you don't think about Jesus as a maintainer, but as a person who has to maintain a property so that we can have growth

17:19.17
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

17:33.30
Nathan Pile
ah in different other aspects of our life. If we don't maintain what is here, if there's not structures in place to provide support for people when they come and live life here in this space, um there won't there won't be those experiences. So there has to be some daily regular maintenance to the structures. And so there's these structures that you and I have as a part of our life. You know, as ah as an as a parent, I put structures in place for my daughter to be able to live her life. She needed, so she needs structure.

18:09.80
Nathan Pile
um

18:10.25
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

18:11.05
Nathan Pile
to be successful. And so um this piece that Jesus maintains everything, undergirds all of these little things that we do for each other in the midst of of living life with each other. um like i i I appreciate that that word maintains because it takes a lot of work to do it. like I get that too.

18:33.55
Nathan Pile
um to do those things and and and it takes work to care for each other. ah Just as you sat with those individuals that you were kind of like, it took energy and time out of your schedule to go and be there for them. But then your example then sparks in their life and God uses that interaction and and and inspires them to go and do a similar thing in that community where they live.

19:00.90
Nathan Pile
um So just, you know, yes, it takes maintenance. It's terrible to think about it that way. Like, I don't want us to think about maintaining relationships, but that's but that's what it takes to have a relationship, right?

19:15.58
Nathan Pile
you You don't get to have a relationship without some kind of maintaining.

19:16.02
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

19:19.62
Nathan Pile
um And relationships are one of the important pieces that we see that.

19:21.71
Kevin Shock
yeah Yeah.

19:23.77
Nathan Pile
so

19:25.82
Kevin Shock
Well, and i think I think it does come down to a mentality. um you know i I don't want to like i want to flog a dead horse here, but you know the the place where I see it most often in my work is buildings. um The number of congregations that tell me, ah well, we want to keep our building open, but they can't tell me why they want to keep their building open.

19:52.00
Kevin Shock
They can't tell me anything about what their mission is. So yeah, maintain maintaining a building or like you said, maintaining a property is essential if you have a sense of what, how, how that building or that property is an asset to the growing that you're doing or, or the, or the, or the life that not even, not even grow.

20:09.29
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm. Yeah.

20:14.97
Kevin Shock
I don't want to say growing, not necessarily by numbers. but that there's that there's some kind of growth-focused work happening there, um or that you know that you're doing you're maintaining the building not as as a means to an end, not the end itself.

20:33.65
Nathan Pile
yeah

20:34.97
Kevin Shock
So yeah, i' yeah, yeah, right. Maintaining is one of those words that has 100 different connotations to it. But I appreciate what you say, that there is there is a necessity to maintaining certain things.

20:42.32
Nathan Pile
Sure.

20:46.58
Kevin Shock
But I think having that mentality of I just want to maintain is is something. Well, first of all, ah you know it is something that um I ah

21:02.54
Kevin Shock
Like I think it's a human thing. I think that's a human reality that we face that, um that you know, even, oh my gosh, the number of times I've said, you know, i'm I'm officially, as we record this, I'm officially in countdown mode to this hip surgery.

21:19.27
Kevin Shock
And ah like, i know I know the date.

21:19.31
Nathan Pile
the

21:21.81
Nathan Pile
It can't get here soon enough, everyone. Can't get here soon enough.

21:24.44
Kevin Shock
and And so I've been saying things like, I just need to get through these last three weeks. Like that is that is a maintenance mentality. And and and i'm and i'm I I I fully recognize that I'm not saying things like, I'm going to make the most out of these next three weeks. Nope, nope. Every day is about trying to get enough sleep so that I can have enough energy to to accomplish the bare minimum to keep me from getting fired and minimize pain in my leg.

21:57.85
Kevin Shock
Like that's where I am right now. I will fully recommend i will fully own up to that.

21:59.60
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

22:03.30
Kevin Shock
I also know that in three weeks time, that's gonna be the end of it. So I understand people getting to a point where they're like, I just need to get through this. I just need to, you know, like I and i think maintenance mentality is a normal human way to feel.

22:20.10
Kevin Shock
um The powerful message that Jesus sends is that I want more for you.

22:28.87
Kevin Shock
i don't want I don't want life to be something you just get through. I want it to be something that is that is healthy and well and good and wild and unpredictable and joyful and and and building up and encouraging and you know it's all about these great relationships that we've been given. That's that's the life that Jesus wants for us.

22:56.86
Kevin Shock
Or if you're an introvert, at the very least, Jesus wants you to have peace and to and to have joy. And if you don't like to spend a lot of time with people, that's okay too. But but even then, your presence is important and needed in the world and in the life that Jesus is creating.

23:20.28
Kevin Shock
So anyway, let's look at this a second time. I think it's your turn to read.

23:24.96
Nathan Pile
Second it time. It is my turn to read.

23:28.21
Kevin Shock
Okay, great.

23:29.06
Nathan Pile
Yeah. In the past, God spoke through the prophets to our ancestors in many times and many ways. In these final days, though, He spoke to us through a Son.

23:42.05
Nathan Pile
God made His Son the heir of everything and created the world through Him. The Son is the light of God's glory and the imprint of God's being.

23:53.30
Nathan Pile
He maintains everything with His powerful message. After He carried out the cleansing of people from their sins, He sat down at the right side of the highest majesty, and the Son became so much greater than the other messengers, such as angels, that He received a more important title than theirs.

24:17.82
Nathan Pile
Toward what is God calling you in this text, Kevin?

24:22.55
Kevin Shock
I, Maybe it's the season. I'm having trouble coming up with an answer different than the answer I gave for the last episode, Nathan. ah i i think i ah Again, i mean just where my mind goes, it's it's about um telling the powerful message. It's about shaping the narrative. um And I think that this is... ah Yeah. the um I don't know, there's something about this text, the the very beginning of Hebrews.

24:57.73
Kevin Shock
So just some so a little bit of background for people who might be less familiar with the the letter to the Hebrews is that, it um Nathan, who wrote this, we don't really know.

25:09.39
Kevin Shock
it it's it's It's given in the in the tradition of Paul, but but also we it it's probably, yeah, it's most likely not Paul that actually sat down and wrote it.

25:09.49
Nathan Pile
We don't.

25:14.68
Nathan Pile
but probably most likely not him.

25:20.91
Kevin Shock
um But it is it is a letter that uses a lot of um Hebrew scriptural text to point to why Jesus is the one who has come to fulfill all the things that God promised to fulfill.

25:41.49
Nathan Pile
Yep.

25:42.09
Kevin Shock
Is that a good way to say it, Nathan?

25:44.34
Nathan Pile
yep, yeah.

25:45.11
Kevin Shock
Okay. ah So so there's there's just there's something about this opening where um that puts me in a mind of ah for generations upon generations, people struggle to figure out who God was and what God wanted and how God was acting in our lives. And now we have been sent somebody that shows it all clearly.

26:17.75
Kevin Shock
um That's not to say that we still don't struggle with all of those same things. um who God is and what God wants and and the life that God is shaping, we still struggle with it. um And that's also not to say that ah that um our our siblings in the faith and and our ancestors in faith of the Jewish tradition did not offer at a ton and continue to offer a ton in the way of

26:53.12
Kevin Shock
ah Figuring out who God is and and and the work that God is doing to repair the world um This is I don't intend that to be a statement that you know Well, Jesus just usurps everything and fixes everything so that that's not my intention with that statement um But but this this text at least points to Jesus makes it all clear and I do think that Is true. I also think that um clarity clarity of knowing that Jesus shows us who God is does not lead to unity of vision and um and complete understanding about how it is that we live into the life that Jesus has given us.

27:40.47
Kevin Shock
So I still think that we we still need to speak promises to one another. We still need to proclaim good news to one another. ah Even though we believe that we in the Christian faith believe that Jesus is the fulfillment of the prophecy from Jeremiah that says that um The days are surely coming when God will raise up one ah who will save us and make an unbreakable covenant, and the law will be written in our hearts, even though we believe that Jesus fulfilled that.

28:13.90
Kevin Shock
Just because the law is written in our hearts does not mean that we live it out the way that we're intended to each and every day.

28:20.04
Nathan Pile
Mmm.

28:21.11
Kevin Shock
So I think that that message, I'm saying all of this, all this rambling is to say, the message still needs to be proclaimed.

28:31.06
Kevin Shock
Every, every time that I step into a pulpit and I usually do it in different places from week to week, um, I'm going in with the assumption that there are going to be people who are sitting there in my presence who need to hear good news. And so I think it's important that we continue to proclaim it, not just in the words that we say, but in how we live with one another too.

29:00.49
Kevin Shock
That was a long roundabout way to get to that short answer. So what about you, Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

29:06.71
Nathan Pile
Well, and I don't have to spend a lot of time because it mine's close to yours, which is, for me, it's it's about that. you're You're sharing the idea of that we have to proclaim it. Mine would be just the time right before it is that we need to listen for it.

29:20.12
Nathan Pile
um

29:20.70
Kevin Shock
Ah, there you go, yep.

29:21.91
Nathan Pile
And so um that peace, and not just listen, be looking also, because after all, the Christ is the light. And so where do we see light in the world?

29:34.36
Nathan Pile
Where where are we hearing about light in the world? And how are we, and then you know it takes its takes us one more step, which is then, and then how are we telling others about it?

29:38.10
Kevin Shock
Mm.

29:44.11
Nathan Pile
So we need to be looking and listening um for that, um for that messenger who has come into the world, ah first in the Christ and now in the Holy Spirit. um and then And then all of the things that you said about proclamation has to be the next pieces. And so um how do we keep ourselves seeking, looking, um listening for God's message? i you know

30:19.15
Nathan Pile
I forget exactly how you just said it. the 'cause My mind is blanking, but the this idea that that um we can be easily distracted by other things, and so it needs to be brought back to our attention.

30:34.60
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

30:35.99
Nathan Pile
um but So we need to be listening for it. We need to be um because at our core, as as you hear you said, it was written on our hearts. um But that doesn't mean that we that when it's written on our hearts that we're doing what our heart's desire is. Sometimes we're doing what what is not our heart's desire. Sometimes we're just doing so things that that that you know we claim that it's our heart's desire. but it might be about what I want because it makes me feel less awkward or it makes me um not be embarrassed or it gives me power or control over the situation.

31:10.26
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

31:15.50
Nathan Pile
So sometimes there's there's things that that aren't really about love. When we talk about it being written on our heart, we think about love. Sometimes it's not really about love. Sometimes it's about what just what my sinful self wants, when my me-focused Nathan attitude, the typical way that I look at the world, um it's what I want. And so the reason we need to be listening, the reason and we need to be looking is because we do have the ultimate messenger who gives us a different way of living life.

31:47.91
Nathan Pile
um to who is setting an example of God's way.

31:49.12
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm.

31:51.67
Nathan Pile
And so we need to be we need to be seeking that out. And so as I listen toward what am I to be doing, that I need to be listening and and searching. I need to be watching for light.

32:04.12
Nathan Pile
um I need to be listening for hope. um um And when I see those things, then I too need to to find my voice and then and and and point and and proclaim and jump up and down and try to get people's attentions and say, here, here's God. So so that others also see it. um

32:29.92
Nathan Pile
So I would say that's that's the piece of this, that that here we have this messenger um who comes into the world, but um I need to be, I need to say I don't need to say, but I should be engaging, seeking to listen and into and to see what God is doing so that I might be inspired in the ways God's intending me to live.

33:02.20
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah, that's helpful to think about. um

33:11.06
Kevin Shock
Yeah, and I yeah, there there are so many ways to give and receive hope in this world. And again, I think that our our mind automatically goes to these grand gestures, but that's not.

33:28.42
Kevin Shock
That's not what changes things. The grand gestures judge don't change things. The the small ah small, seemingly and again insignificant things are the ones that proclaim good news best.

33:39.78
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

33:41.23
Kevin Shock
So yeah. All right. um I'll read it a third time.

33:44.81
Nathan Pile
You're going to read it a third time.

33:46.20
Kevin Shock
I am going to read it a third time.

33:46.61
Nathan Pile
You're you're reading it. Yeah, you're reading it.

33:48.38
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Okay. From Hebrews chapter one. In the past, God spoke through the prophets to our ancestors in many times and many ways. In these final days, though, he spoke to us through a son. God made his son the heir of everything and created the world through him. The son is the light of God's glory and the imprint of God's being. He maintains everything with his powerful message. After he carried out the cleansing of people from their sins, he sat down at the right side of the highest majesty.

34:22.28
Kevin Shock
and the sun became so so much greater than the other messengers such as angels that he received a more important title than theirs.

34:32.90
Kevin Shock
Nathan, what message is God speaking to you or through you in this season?

34:41.73
Nathan Pile
um I think for for me as I think about this whole season, the different readings that we've kind of um engaged over the course of Advent um and now this message here,

35:00.74
Nathan Pile
um

35:04.48
Nathan Pile
the the the thing that sticks out to me is um It doesn't have to be a big thing. it the That the thing that God's message for our world is that the things that I do as Nathan Pyle, my daily interactions, my by day-to-day um living,

35:29.51
Nathan Pile
making the choices that that reflect the light of God, um that's enough.

35:39.04
Nathan Pile
that's and That's enough in this season of Christmas where um where we yeah' we're in a culture where things are are big and... um grand. And so this idea of Christmas, um the idea of Christmas keeps getting bigger, the the the celebration of Christmas and what is, I think the the piece that I've been left with through these readings um for this season is that the little things of life

36:13.63
Nathan Pile
the things that are really that that matter the that have mattered the most to me, and that um because they matter the most to me, most likely matter the most to other people, all revolve around those little things of of love, of of finding ways to share light and love, to be the imprint of God,

36:34.13
Nathan Pile
in my life. And so you you talked about that proclamation piece. so um And I think that's just as important. i Again, as I just shared, I think the important piece is being able to to here hear that this is who God is sending into the world.

36:51.03
Nathan Pile
So that when I have questions about

36:52.09
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

36:54.69
Nathan Pile
How do I do this? How do I live my day-to-day life doing the little things, loving others, loving my neighbor, um loving my family? ah How do I share the good news? When I'm not sure what to do, that I recall these passages that say, Jesus is the ultimate communicator, go and find out. If you if you need examples, if you need a witness, if you need um some way of making sense of what are my next steps? Well, Scripture is here to do that. And and and Jesus is the is the place where I should mirror my i should be the mirror that reflects Christ's love out into the world. And so if I'm not sure how to do that, then I need to go back to Christ.

37:48.36
Nathan Pile
um

37:50.52
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Hmm.

37:51.42
Nathan Pile
But the my simple piece, my my piece of this, so the way that I do that, um doesn't have to be big, doesn't have to be um reaching thousands of people or or even hundreds of people. If it reaches the five people that are closest to me, that's enough.

38:14.76
Nathan Pile
um

38:18.42
Nathan Pile
And so that a message, because I do think our our world needs a message of hope right now. Our world needs a message of love right now. um And so the little things that helped me to do that, to share that message um in my day-to-day action. So being a little bit more thoughtful. The word that has rattled around in my head um for the last three weeks has been intentional.

38:49.48
Nathan Pile
um How am I intentional about living out hope and love today? How am I intentional? ah And so I think about that for camp because that means we have to plan like we're in the season of planning getting ready for the next summer and so how are we intentional?

39:08.67
Nathan Pile
um about helping our parents help their kids grow in faith. um That's one of the big questions we're answering right now in our offices. And so that piece of that that part of intention and intentionality. And so like i I strongly believe God's message is one of love and hope ah for the world.

39:32.78
Nathan Pile
That's the message that I feel God calling me to. However, I don't feel like I have to wow people by that message.

39:42.33
Kevin Shock
Mm.

39:43.52
Nathan Pile
um My simple interaction with them, if I can be faithful to what I believe, the things that I value, the things that that um I'm trying to make a part of my life as a disciple of Christ, if I do those things,

40:03.20
Nathan Pile
That's enough um in this season and and and all of the year.

40:08.13
Kevin Shock
Mm.

40:09.73
Nathan Pile
It's not just this Christmas season, but in all of the year um and finding ways to to do that.

40:19.88
Nathan Pile
And so um when someone needs a listening ear, then make time to be the listening ear. um Again, it doesn't have to be something It doesn't have to be something huge. I don't have to fix ah problem listening to the Listening to the person who's struggling with a problem is is enough. So so I think you know to me that idea, the message of love and hope is is the message. How we do that, I think it is, ah is

41:00.36
Nathan Pile
It feels like a back to basics. That's what coming through this Advent season and into Christmas feels like. Like it's a back to basics folks. We have to get back to the things that make us human and and we're taught to us by our are a Rabbi Jesus.

41:17.61
Nathan Pile
um of Make people feel welcome. Feed people.

41:25.90
Nathan Pile
You know, we talked about the last time that help people to feel secure. Um, like all of those that, that, that, that, but they don't have to be, they don't have to be that I've built the house for the person. Cause I don't, I don't have that ability. Um,

41:45.17
Nathan Pile
but what are the ways that I can walk with that person? So in the midst of their need.

41:53.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

41:53.29
Nathan Pile
So that's where.

41:57.89
Kevin Shock
yeah

41:57.94
Nathan Pile
How do I make, how do I personify love and hope? Maybe that's the easiest way to say it.

42:02.67
Kevin Shock
OK, all right. Well, OK, that that kind of that gets to the question I was going to ask. I actually had a couple of questions for you. um

42:12.49
Kevin Shock
One. it and But you've already done this, just ah thinking about when when we say things like ah we need to get back to the basics of being human, I think we then we also have to name what those basics what would we mean by that, because different people can

42:27.71
Nathan Pile
Well, and and as a Lutheran Christian for me, that's love and and and hope.

42:31.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

42:32.62
Nathan Pile
you know Those are the basic.

42:32.87
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

42:33.34
Nathan Pile
that those are the basic like And when I say love, it's not just, ooh, it's not the Walt Disney love.

42:34.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

42:40.20
Kevin Shock
It it's, it's the active.

42:42.98
Nathan Pile
it's It's the Jesus love. it's It's the being in the hard spots, being in places where people are are the last, the least, the lonely and the lost, the lame, being in those spaces with them so they're not there alone.

42:45.75
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

42:56.72
Kevin Shock
Mm hmm. Yeah.

42:59.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

43:01.35
Kevin Shock
Yeah, not even, right, not even to rescue them from the those places, but to be with them in those places.

43:06.41
Nathan Pile
Just just to be there.

43:06.67
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

43:08.19
Nathan Pile
Yeah, the rescuing might to me when I was talking about wrestling trying to you know when you're talking you're trying to figure out what rescuing might be the really big thing that I can't do. But that doesn't mean that I just turn my back on the person and walk away from I can't rescue from this situation.

43:17.94
Kevin Shock
Right, right. Yeah, right.

43:22.42
Nathan Pile
No, but I can I can be here.

43:22.76
Kevin Shock
Right.

43:25.27
Nathan Pile
In the midst of whatever is going on.

43:27.27
Kevin Shock
Yep, yep.

43:28.14
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

43:29.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, so the the the other question, the other thing I was thinking about is, and I think that you answered it there right at the end because you said about personifying, how do you personify love and hope? um you had talked You had said something about being the being the being yourself being the imprint of God. How how do I become the imprint of God?

43:51.36
Kevin Shock
um in the way that I live. ah And that's something that, I mean, that's language that in this Hebrews text is given specifically to Jesus. um ah So i'm i'm I was curious to hear you unpack a little bit. How how would you expand upon that idea of of you or each of us being an imprint of the living God?

44:16.12
Nathan Pile
For me, that falls to baptism. And so that idea at um ah baptism, somebody made a cross of the of Christ on my forehead. And that imprint is always there.

44:27.47
Nathan Pile
I am always and forever a child of God.

44:27.73
Kevin Shock
Okay.

44:30.49
Nathan Pile
i'm always And so there's a part of God in me. um That means I could choose to share that message that that that part of of who I am or I can bury it down deep and not You know, uh, but I'm always a part of God's family. I'm always, um,

44:54.35
Nathan Pile
I'm all, you know, I'm in, um, and that imprint has been given to me. I get dusted for fingerprints every Ash Wednesday and it's there. I am reminded that I'm, I've been, that imprint has been given to me. Um, and so that imprint of God, um,

45:11.92
Nathan Pile
goes with me, it goes out into the world. and And so a part of my struggle as a human being is to figure out how to live more fully as a child of God in the world. um I'm not the Christ, um but I am a reflection of the Christ in the world. um So that would be, does that help clarify that a little bit?

45:34.12
Kevin Shock
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I just wanted to hear you. ah one to hear you i wanted yeah I just wanted to hear you unpack that a little bit more because I think that that's a that that's something that we talk a lot about in in the life of the church, you know being it or or the language we most often use for it is being more Christ-like.

45:39.29
Nathan Pile
Say it.

45:56.57
Kevin Shock
And I think it's it's helpful to unpack what that means exactly. Yeah.

46:02.80
Kevin Shock
ye

46:02.86
Nathan Pile
he What about you, my friend? what What message is God speaking to you and through you in this season?

46:10.21
Kevin Shock
Um, I, the message that came to me ah almost instantly when that, when that question came out of my mouth was the, uh, the, the words of the, what century was she 14th? I think 14th century Saint, uh, mother Julian or Julian of Norwich who said, who wrote all shall be well and all shall be well and all manner of things shall be well.

46:41.11
Kevin Shock
that's That's the message that i um I need to hear and I think I am hearing. um and ah And it's also then, I think, um i want to today's not the day for it, but I wanna be able then to embody that message for other people. So that um just just in the just in my presence,

47:11.13
Kevin Shock
Uh, people come to receive that same message as I've received it. Yeah, that's yeah. I don't know if I have anything more to add to it. Uh, because I think that message is pretty, I like how Juliana Julian, she's a, she's a ah ah ah yeah, Julian, but yeah, but she went undetected as a as a woman for years, or or her her womanhood was suppressed so that her writings could get out.

47:33.80
Nathan Pile
Julian. Julian of Norwich, yeah.

47:45.17
Kevin Shock
And I i like to honor the fact that um she's a woman, she's a woman, ah a saint of the church in the 14th century who also is a woman.

47:49.93
Nathan Pile
Wow.

47:54.72
Kevin Shock
um So, yeah, it like people go back and forth. Julian, Julian, Julianna, anyway.

48:00.95
Nathan Pile
Uh, I, now I understand what you were, I was like, surely you've known her name, but I see what your, the, the challenge is more around that.

48:05.56
Kevin Shock
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Yeah.

48:09.59
Nathan Pile
How do you help, um, others understand that it was a woman writing and not, yeah, she hit her identity to write, others hit her identity as she wrote.

48:14.35
Kevin Shock
Her identity, right, that her identity is clear.

48:19.16
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

48:20.27
Nathan Pile
Um, and so, yeah.

48:20.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, um i like that I like that Mother Julian ah ah wrote that the way that she did ah with that repetitive nature because um I don't think it's the kind of message that sticks the first time you hear it.

48:40.38
Nathan Pile
Sure.

48:41.17
Kevin Shock
ah So but that she wrote it three times.

48:41.72
Nathan Pile
Well, and and knowing you the way that I know you, my friend, like being well right now, is ah you've struggled with that for some time, feeling well.

48:53.40
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah

48:54.83
Nathan Pile
and so that message of of ah the promise of wellness in the future. We know that there's a date coming um that hopefully medically they will bring relief that allows you to be more yourself than you have been.

49:13.42
Nathan Pile
But then also then to be able to share that message with others because I think we all need to hear a message of ah we are well um right now.

49:16.46
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

49:24.42
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah.

49:28.50
Nathan Pile
Powerful.

49:28.84
Kevin Shock
That's, you're right. That's just, that's where I am right now.

49:34.12
Nathan Pile
All right. um Well, as Kevin said, there is a huge list of additional texts. ah um And so you can um check the the um podcast um notes and see all of those things.

49:51.14
Nathan Pile
um But here here they are quickly. Isaiah nine, two through seven, light shines and a child is born. Psalm 96, let the heavens rejoice and the earth be glad. Titus chapter two, verses 11 through 14, the grace of God has appeared. And Luke chapter two, verses one through 20, God with us. The name Emmanuel. um Isaiah,

50:20.66
Nathan Pile
62 verses 6 through 12 God comes to restore the people. Psalm 97 light dawns for the righteous and joy for the honest of heart.

50:33.25
Nathan Pile
Titus chapter 3 verses 4 through 7 saved through the water and the spirit. Isaiah 52 verses 7 through 10 heralds announce God's salvation.

50:45.44
Kevin Shock
Thank you.

50:45.51
Nathan Pile
Psalm 98 all the ends of the earth have seen the victory of our God and John chapter one, verses one to 14, the word became flesh. So Kevin, my friend, thank you for your reflections. Merry Christmas to you.

51:04.01
Kevin Shock
Merry Christmas.

51:05.90
Nathan Pile
And Merry Christmas to all of you here. it's We hope that during this season um of of proclaiming and hearing the message of the good news, ah maybe we wait maybe we need to reverse those, hearing the message of the good news and then proclaiming to others. um We hope this season also tends tend your faith and and your love and your peace um so that you and hope so that you may go out into the world and share those messages in your words and actions. um so Kevin, thanks for your reflections today. um and We hope to tend our faith with you again soon. Grace to you.

51:51.16
Kevin Shock
and peace.