Episode 18: Romans 10:8b-13

Translation: Common English Bible (CEB)

3 Questions:

What word, phrase or image strikes you in this text?

Toward what is God calling you in this text?

How do you confess that Jesus is Lord?

Additional texts:

Deuteronomy 26:1-11

Psalm 91:1-2, 9-16

Luke 4:1-13

Transcript

00:01.57
Kevin Shock
Nathan just told me we are ready to roll and we hope you are ready to roll too. When it comes to tending your faith.

00:07.20
Nathan Pile
Rolling, rolling,

00:09.01
Kevin Shock
Oh my gosh.

00:08.96
Nathan Pile
Keep those doggies rolling.

00:11.28
Kevin Shock
There was, there was no mention of Rawhide, uh, before then.

00:11.36
Nathan Pile
Oh, all right. Yeah, but now your dogs are going to go crazy.

00:18.26
Kevin Shock
They better not. They really better not. Um, uh, yeah. Welcome back to Tend. We are today looking at, um, a passage from Romans, the 10th chapter, verses 8b through 13. And the translation we're using is the Common English translation, the Common common English Bible, the CEB.

00:44.00
Kevin Shock
As always, you can find that on BibleGateway.com, the Bible Gateway app, or ah just follow along in whatever version you have handy. Three questions that we are working through today. What word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text?

00:59.70
Kevin Shock
toward what is God calling you in this text? And how do you confess that Jesus is Lord?

01:07.84
Kevin Shock
That's not a, there's not a right answer to that. That's, that's an open-ended question.

01:13.38
Nathan Pile
Yeah, yeah.

01:14.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

01:17.92
Nathan Pile
Well, um here's some information about your hosts. We are men married to women in financially stable households, white, now firmly, one of us is firmly in their middle age.

01:29.71
Kevin Shock
No, we're both firmly in middle age.

01:30.09
Nathan Pile
um

01:31.77
Kevin Shock
Not one of us.

01:33.38
Nathan Pile
Hey, the good news is ah firmly in the middle, like you get to, you have another 50 years. You can live to be a hundred. That's great news.

01:41.25
Kevin Shock
that's what That's what I just told someone.

01:42.19
Nathan Pile
Very exciting.

01:42.77
Kevin Shock
um

01:43.62
Nathan Pile
Very exciting.

01:43.77
Kevin Shock
I'm celebrating my first half century. so yeah

01:47.02
Nathan Pile
There you go. Yeah. um I think they call that out there in the, um in the antiquing world. You're a collectible.

01:57.22
Kevin Shock
Well, indeed I am.

01:59.16
Nathan Pile
After 50 years, you become a collectible. So.

02:02.04
Kevin Shock
Oh, gosh. Okay, anyway.

02:05.27
Nathan Pile
All right. Where was that? at oh firmly in our middle age, ah college and seminary educated. We work in the Lutheran Church and were born and raised in Western Pennsylvania. All of this have affects how we read and scripture and discuss it.

02:18.32
Nathan Pile
But none of this makes us better able to read and discuss scripture than anyone else. We believe that the wisdom of Scripture is the whole community's compiled interpretation for life with God and one another.

02:29.57
Nathan Pile
So we want to know what you hear and think from your life experience as you engage Scripture with us. yeah Our reading is from Romans, the 10th chapter, verses 8 through 13. The

02:48.87
Nathan Pile
the word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. That is the message of faith that we preach. Because if you confess that your mouth with your mouth Jesus is Lord, and in your heart you have faith that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

03:11.12
Nathan Pile
Trusting with the heart leads to righteousness, and confessing with the mouth leads to salvation. The scripture says all who have faith in him won't be put to shame.

03:23.91
Nathan Pile
There is no distinction between Jew and Greek because the same Lord is Lord of all, who gives richly to all who call on him. All who call on the Lord's name will be saved.

03:41.59
Nathan Pile
If you're meeting with a group, you can pause the podcast now and engage the questions on your own. Or you can listen here as Kevin shares his response to what word, phrase, or image strikes you in this text.

03:55.43
Kevin Shock
um all All who call.

03:59.55
Kevin Shock
ah I think that it's easy to read this text and and I don't know if it's particular to our <unk> modern slash contemporary context in the United States um that, you know, I think there's there's a big strain of Christianity in the United States and and elsewhere too, but here that, you know, that saying the words is,

04:26.81
Kevin Shock
Confessing the words is um is what, well, what Paul says here ah leads to salvation. Confessing with the mouth. um We come from a tradition where that's not a and that's not a one-time thing.

04:45.07
Kevin Shock
That that salvation ah salvation comes from God. and And so then a response to that salvation is a constant.

04:57.69
Kevin Shock
confessing of who is Lord and, and not, and not just with our mouths, but as we talked about in the, in the last episode with, with the way we live. Um, I think we talked quite a bit in the last episode about how just, just using our mouths is not, is not the healthiest thing to do.

05:17.12
Kevin Shock
It's the people who honors me with their lips, but not with their hearts.

05:18.16
Nathan Pile
Correct.

05:20.47
Kevin Shock
Um, uh, so I also think as like as I was listening to you read this, Nathan, that, um, you know, it, it's hard to take four or five verses of Paul and create a whole system of living faith out of them, because this is all part of a bigger structure, a bigger story, a bigger letter.

05:48.80
Kevin Shock
Um, so I, where was I going with that? Uh,

05:56.22
Kevin Shock
So I also think that this takes a little bit of extrapolation because the other thing I noticed about this text is that, um, it's what we in our, in our contemporary time would call ableist.

06:10.09
Kevin Shock
Um, it, it excludes people who for one reason or another cannot speak.

06:18.16
Kevin Shock
Uh, but I don't think, I don't think that that's Paul's intention. I think that that's an interpretation of this text. And, um,

06:26.72
Kevin Shock
So what grabs my attention is that all who call, and I think a calling, a call can come, it can be, um, understandable words, language. It can be a, uh, a, a grunt or an utterance. Uh, it can be, um, well,

06:50.36
Kevin Shock
you know, this, a couple of chapters earlier in the same book, the sinner, the, the spirit intercedes for us with sighs too deep for words. Uh, so, so this is more about just saying the right formula, more about saying the right words, but, but the call can even come from, ah ah what we're feeling in our hearts.

07:13.03
Kevin Shock
Um, and, um, because God discerns the spirit that we have. So this, to me, this is not an exclusionary thing. Like you have to say these particular words in order to be saved.

07:28.52
Kevin Shock
This is a, even the person who only utters this or who only has this particular feeling ah is open to salvation because what ah what Jesus has done.

07:44.64
Kevin Shock
Does that make sense?

07:44.81
Nathan Pile
Yeah. yeah

07:46.87
Kevin Shock
Um, This isn't all who follow the law, all who pray the right prayers, all who eat the right foods, all who ah love their neighbor without fault, all who have been forgiven and never sin again.

08:01.07
Kevin Shock
This is simply all who call on him. All who desire Jesus to be with them, he is with them and he gives them salvation.

08:12.69
Kevin Shock
So that's that's how, again, that's. We also talked in the last episode about the Lutheran lens of theology, the Lutheran, what we call hermeneutic for reading the Bible, the lens through which we read the Bible.

08:26.13
Kevin Shock
um And I think that that's part of that, that this is a this is a Lutheran understanding of this text. ah But for me, it's this is a text that is welcoming and expansive in its view and not limiting.

08:44.20
Kevin Shock
And all who call is how I get to that point, yeah.

08:48.66
Nathan Pile
And it's

08:55.10
Nathan Pile
a very extravagant reading of this. your your Your reflection is showing the extravagant love of of of God and Christ.

09:11.88
Nathan Pile
um This is who God is. You know, I think that's ah the, Paul is always,

09:25.28
Nathan Pile
um He likes to be a little flamboyant. He likes to likes to push the edge.

09:32.15
Kevin Shock
I feel like you've said this before, Nathan.

09:32.33
Nathan Pile
um Yeah, it's just of who he is. um And it's part of the reason I like him sometimes. And sometimes, i but you know, I guess I can't say that he that he pushes it too much for me. But um

09:46.46
Nathan Pile
but that, so, you know, I'm saying this ah about you. You know, he he's saying that, you know,

09:55.08
Nathan Pile
if you're calling on God, God's there. Um, which again, in and some of our streams of Christianity

10:06.66
Nathan Pile
would be challenging for them to hear that this passage that way. Um, because there's no, there's no merit. They haven't earned it.

10:19.43
Nathan Pile
Um, it hasn't been, they haven't said the right words, um,

10:26.78
Nathan Pile
And here it is simply that action of reaching. We talk about it sometimes when we talk about kids and Holy Communion. Do we give we give little kids communion?

10:36.03
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

10:38.54
Nathan Pile
And um I had a pastor years ago that that that argued um that if you put your hand out, because everybody else is putting their hand out, you know they're getting something you want.

10:54.80
Nathan Pile
doesn't take it, you know, a third, a three-year-old or a four-year-old can see everybody else getting something. So if they see everybody else getting in, they put their hand out. Isn't, isn't, isn't that enough to say that God could, that they could have the, you know, as part of the argument of, do we commune people younger that don't understand how important communion is?

11:19.91
Nathan Pile
Well, you're right. They don't understand what a, what an adult might understand about communion, but,

11:20.78
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

11:24.85
Nathan Pile
neither does a 12 year old understand what an adult might understand about communion, uh,

11:29.38
Kevin Shock
and And no adult understands communion in its complexity.

11:33.11
Nathan Pile
fully.

11:33.57
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

11:33.63
Nathan Pile
Yeah, absolutely. And so, but there's that, so it's that same idea. yes If, if, if, if somebody calls again, in all the ways that you shared about what that looks like, what that could mean, God, God's showing up on the scene.

11:51.37
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

11:51.49
Nathan Pile
God's there. Um, thats That's a powerful statement. so um And ah the the words that caught mine were um just before yours, but it was that that language of Jew and Greek.

12:05.97
Nathan Pile
um

12:06.68
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

12:06.96
Nathan Pile
And for us today, that my might might mean something.

12:07.18
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

12:10.25
Nathan Pile
It might not mean something. But again, Paul is just as um um not not afraid to kind of push the bar here because he's pushing it against those who think that they might have a a claim on ownership of who God is for, um, God is for all. and And he's using the two extremes, those who have been faithful already in relationship, the Jew, and those who may not have had any, um,

12:46.92
Nathan Pile
connection that being the Greek um who might be beyond be beyond um

12:56.16
Nathan Pile
God um you know God's message before because well it was you know and the the God of the Jews was worshipped by by only those who were a part of the nation of Israel and so now God is being opened beyond um the boundaries of one um one group of people to include yeah essentially all groups of people. But Paul's statement here is to is to just move it one level, which would be those who are the Greek, which would be the people that are also surrounding...

13:40.29
Nathan Pile
um all of Jerusalem and the people of Israel, the traditional home of the Jewish people, um, is much bigger. You know, the, the God is reaching out to, to those beyond,

13:56.17
Nathan Pile
just the, the, the Hebrew people. And so this is that kind of a statement being, being added in here. um there's no favorites.

14:08.61
Nathan Pile
There's no, you know, though there's no distinct, there's no distinction here between Jew and Greek, um, because the same Lord is Lord of all. And so again, Paul, making sure that we understand this inclusive God who is calling us all into relationship, um, and what that looks like.

14:29.76
Nathan Pile
So, so Jew and Greek were, were, where I kind of landed there and, and, um, um,

14:31.05
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

14:39.12
Nathan Pile
there would be There would be faith boundaries being crossed, but there would also be political boundaries being crossed here by the by these by this name of Jew and Greek. so

14:53.53
Kevin Shock
Yeah. And I, um, I really appreciate that reflection because it, uh, for me in in what I said helps me to understand that I do not i do not see this test this text as a litmus test for human beings to discernate determine who's in and who's out.

15:15.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

15:16.13
Kevin Shock
Like all the people who have said Jesus is Lord, they're the insiders. and And those who don't say it are outside. No, this is not about that. This is about the nearness of God to us and and how how easily God, how quickly God comes to us if we only, ah that even that sounds like, I have trouble saying that. hu any Anyone who, like you said, anyone who just puts their hand out, God welcomes.

15:51.66
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

15:51.71
Kevin Shock
they they don't They don't have to pass a big test before God embraces them in love, ah before Jesus makes them his own.

15:56.84
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

15:59.92
Kevin Shock
ah And so, yeah, that's, it's not a litmus test for humans. It's, it's, it's a text about the nearness of God.

16:08.58
Nathan Pile
Yes. Yeah.

16:10.34
Kevin Shock
The, yeah the other thing, when you said, um talking about the kids who reach out at communion, um the, the Bible passage that this brings to mind for me is when the, the woman who has suffered from a hemorrhage for 12 years comes to Jesus and unbeknownst to him, just touches the hem of his cloak and is healed.

16:35.13
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

16:35.66
Kevin Shock
that That to me is an exemplary text of what exactly Paul is saying here. she

16:42.24
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

16:42.70
Kevin Shock
She trusted that if she only she only got near enough to just even touch the fringe of his clothing, that she would be healed. And that's that's what I hear in this text as well.

16:54.19
Nathan Pile
Yeah. Well, and, and um,

16:56.83
Kevin Shock
Okay.

16:58.78
Nathan Pile
And that's this is a trueness of about who God is, who Jesus is throughout his ministry. We just um read a couple of weeks ago um the blessings and woes of Luke.

17:12.47
Nathan Pile
And right before that, we hear that the crowds were coming to be healed, to be to be touched by. Like, there's a desire

17:23.21
Kevin Shock
who

17:24.92
Nathan Pile
for crowds of people. to come and associate, to connect, to reach out to God. um And again, it's it's that idea of this is describing who God is, not who we are, this passage.

17:45.17
Nathan Pile
Yeah, I love that.

17:45.43
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah.

17:48.89
Kevin Shock
Okay. Uh, second time.

17:51.42
Nathan Pile
Let's do it.

17:53.72
Kevin Shock
From Romans, the 10th chapter.

17:59.31
Kevin Shock
The word is near you in your mouth and in your heart. That is the message of faith that we preach. Because if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord. And in your heart, you have faith that God raised him from the dead. You will be saved.

18:13.16
Kevin Shock
Trusting with the heart leads to righteousness and confessing with the mouth leads to salvation. The scripture says all who have faith in him won't be put to shame. There is no distinction between Jew and Greek because the same Lord is Lord of all, who gives richly to all who call on him.

18:30.53
Kevin Shock
All who call on the Lord's name will be saved.

18:35.55
Kevin Shock
Nathan, toward what is God calling you in this text?

18:39.57
Nathan Pile
Well, one of the things I've been wrestling with over the last couple of weeks is the closeness of God. And so, again, this passage reminds me of that.

18:51.71
Nathan Pile
It reminds me of um of how close God is. Yeah.

19:01.89
Nathan Pile
You know, when we talk about the the first sentence, when we talk about the word is near you, it's already in your mouth and it's in your heart.

19:09.88
Kevin Shock
yeah. yeah

19:10.69
Nathan Pile
um Like, ah like i don't know how Paul could get it much closer to us. um That the word is already resting in our mouth and it's resting in our hearts.

19:24.36
Nathan Pile
um And and the the part of this that I've been wrestling with, when I said that I've been wrestling with this for a couple of weeks, we we had a um weekend retreat group here, or a led a weekend retreat group, and and we were talking about this in that um retreat of of that God lives in us.

19:45.97
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

19:46.07
Nathan Pile
you know And so here this word lives in us and um And all the ramifications of what that means. and and And though I, again, I know you and I have talked about that here in this podcast.

20:01.78
Nathan Pile
and um And when I was a parish pastor, talked about it in that setting every now and then, mostly probably in Bible study. Occasionally, maybe if the scripture passage we were reading talked about it in a sermon.

20:15.42
Nathan Pile
um But as I think about it at camp, I talk about it with our young adults a lot, probably not as often with our the campers themselves, but this idea that God lives in us,

20:29.89
Nathan Pile
um

20:32.65
Nathan Pile
I don't want to say is, um like, I think we ought to talk about it more.

20:40.28
Nathan Pile
Like, how do we how do we help ourselves understand this reality of who God is, of being that close? to us all of the time um um

20:56.23
Nathan Pile
and and how that and what that means for us in our lives. And so so both from the the this conversation I had at at this retreat, along with um some other studies that I've been doing and this passage today makes me feel like, boy, how do we how do we be more intentional about talking about how close God is?

21:19.31
Nathan Pile
Um, because it can feel like right now at times in my own life that it doesn't, God doesn't feel as close just because of everything that's going around the chaos, the fear that's going around in our world.

21:32.85
Nathan Pile
How can we, how, how, how can we be secure in knowing that God isn't that far away? Um, So me, you know, this passage, um that's what I feel called to be reminded of or or feeling called toward is recognizing that God is so very close um in the midst of everything that's happening.

21:58.27
Nathan Pile
um and And even so much so that, you know, God is is in my mouth and in my heart. um

22:07.01
Nathan Pile
But how do I stay in tune with that? How do I...

22:13.07
Nathan Pile
how do I prepare, how do I live in those ways? um Because there's ah there's a message of it. Yes, that it's there. um And, but, but all of the hope and reassurance that it brings me by hearing these words, how do, how does that hope also then live out in what we've talked about in past podcasts of, of, you know, our actions matching our words, matching what we believe.

22:40.36
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

22:42.35
Nathan Pile
So,

22:43.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

22:45.39
Kevin Shock
Well, I'm i'm just going to fold into your reflection there, if if I may.

22:48.22
Nathan Pile
Yeah, you may.

22:49.82
Kevin Shock
And um and the the image that this puts forth in my head, which I think is also an answer to the second question, is that anytime i think an uncharitable thought or have an uncharitable feeling towards someone else or um any any words of division

22:49.94
Nathan Pile
Go ahead.

23:14.32
Kevin Shock
or hatred or um even even even just something that's not nice comes out of my mouth, what what I am consciously doing is pushing the word of God out of its place.

23:34.45
Kevin Shock
Like if if the word if the word is in my mouth and in my heart, I have to push it aside in order to make room for those other thoughts and words that I am thinking and speaking.

23:44.93
Nathan Pile
hmm

23:46.96
Kevin Shock
And, um, and so I think that this is calling me to, um, give,

23:56.07
Kevin Shock
give, give the primary space in my heart and in my mouth to the one who already owns those things to, to the one who has made those things and the, and the one who has put,

24:05.40
Nathan Pile
hmm

24:08.35
Kevin Shock
put the word in my heart and in my mouth. Yeah, that's um just, just as you were talking that, that like, like i said, that was the image that came to mind. And for me personally, it's a, it's a powerful image that if, if Jesus, if Jesus exists there, if, if his space is there, then in order for me to say something unkind to somebody else or about somebody else,

24:35.76
Kevin Shock
I have to be consciously pushing his word out of the way to do that.

24:39.74
Nathan Pile
right.

24:40.27
Kevin Shock
And, and when I put it that way, it's pretty clear that that's not not something I want to do. ah

24:48.97
Nathan Pile
right

24:49.48
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. It becomes clear that that is not, um, that's not who I am. That's not who God made me to be. That's not, um, that's not, that's not the call I've been given.

25:02.34
Kevin Shock
And so, um, Yeah, I for for me giving primary space and in my heart and in my mouth ah to Jesus, to the word.

25:14.98
Kevin Shock
ah To the way of God is is what I'm feeling called toward.

25:20.31
Nathan Pile
Well, in the way that you articulate that, um it makes such beautiful sense for whatever our spiritual practices might be, whether it be centering prayer or reading scripture, yeah that we're creating we're creating space to be able to hear that word that lives inside of us.

25:47.57
Nathan Pile
Like the word is there already.

25:49.63
Kevin Shock
Right. Yeah. yeah

25:50.80
Nathan Pile
And so so a part of making time for personal devotions, prayer time, um you know, whatever Bible reading, whatever your script your your spiritual practices are, ah part of what that, the reason that we're doing that is to hear the eternal word that lives in us. yeah what's it What's it trying to say?

26:21.18
Nathan Pile
So I just appreciated the, you know, I kind of asked a question. i don't know if I asked a question at the end of mine, but like, what what are the ways that we we try to do this? One of those ways get lived out, just as you say, by providing us, we we need to provide some of that space to be able to hear that word that lives and dwells in us.

26:41.28
Nathan Pile
So powerful, powerful.

26:43.63
Kevin Shock
yeah

26:46.60
Nathan Pile
It was a good image. Thank you, my friend.

26:50.26
Kevin Shock
Well, you you were the one who put it in my head. so

26:53.34
Nathan Pile
Well, you know, let's, let's, we feed each other.

26:56.15
Kevin Shock
Yeah, right, right, right.

26:56.75
Nathan Pile
Uh, right.

26:57.40
Kevin Shock
And again, that's why we do this.

26:57.81
Nathan Pile
So that's right.

27:01.25
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

27:01.34
Nathan Pile
right. You want to do third time?

27:02.77
Kevin Shock
Sure.

27:04.15
Nathan Pile
All right.

27:10.00
Kevin Shock
Oh, is that me?

27:10.35
Nathan Pile
The word, no, no, it's me. I just had to get the, I had to get the, the scripture back up here in front of me and then adjust because I have the sun coming in in my eyeball.

27:12.50
Kevin Shock
Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.

27:21.08
Kevin Shock
You all can't see Nathan, but he is, he is just glow the, uh, the setting sun in Western Pennsylvania.

27:21.56
Nathan Pile
Uh,

27:25.00
Nathan Pile
I'm a natural, and natural light is a beautiful thing, but boy, it's hard.

27:30.07
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

27:31.57
Nathan Pile
Um, when it's coming right at you, uh, the word is near you in your mouth and in your heart. That is the message of faith that we preach.

27:43.34
Nathan Pile
Because if you confess with your mouth, Jesus is Lord. And in your heart, you have faith that God raised him from the dead. You will be saved. Trusting with the heart leads to righteousness, and confessing with the mouth leads to salvation.

28:00.09
Nathan Pile
The scripture says all who have faith in him won't be put to shame. There is no distinction between Jew and Greek, because the same Lord is Lord of all, who gives richly to all who call on him.

28:15.87
Nathan Pile
All who call on the Lord's name will be saved.

28:23.87
Nathan Pile
Kevin, how do you confess that Jesus is Lord?

28:30.35
Kevin Shock
Um,

28:34.70
Kevin Shock
well, I, uh, it's, it might sound like a cop out, but I really think this is very similar to, um my answer for the last question.

28:47.16
Kevin Shock
Um, and I, I think that that is, uh, not just in my mouth and my heart, but in my whole life, giving Jesus primary space.

28:59.83
Kevin Shock
Um, you know Lord lord is an antiquated word. ah and And Lord is also a word that I think for a lot of people is um not synonymous with, but it has echoes of oppression and forced labor and things like that. um

29:25.16
Kevin Shock
But the Lord... Well, you know, if you ever watch Downton Abbey, that's so that's a more modern ah a more modern scenario where we see Lord sometimes. that That there was intended to be, ah the Lord was intended to to take care of the people who were tending the land that the Lord owned.

29:46.74
Kevin Shock
and um And so is... the lord is When we talk about Jesus, the connotation that I think of when I think of Lord. And and i I think for a long time, i got away from addressing God with that word in my praying. but um But lately, I seem to have come back to it. And I'm not sure exactly why. Yeah,

30:11.82
Nathan Pile
God is Lord. That's I'm just clarifying.

30:13.91
Kevin Shock
yeah yeah, yeah. When I when i pray, um i i find myself more recently talking to the Lord.

30:22.41
Nathan Pile
The Lord.

30:23.78
Kevin Shock
Um, and, um, well, I don't want to read anything into it, but it might have to do something with my trust level in the government right now that I'm, I need a I need a Lord I can trust in.

30:37.02
Kevin Shock
Uh, but I, for me, that connotation is Lord is provider. Lord is caretaker. Lord is, um, at, at the most

30:47.92
Nathan Pile
Hmm. Hmm.

30:52.98
Kevin Shock
in the most basic human needs, Lord is life giver. ah and And certainly when we're talking about salvation, that's the that's the understanding of this text as well, that the Lord is the life giver.

31:06.37
Kevin Shock
um

31:09.02
Kevin Shock
So giving Jesus primary space in my life means that, for me, it means that I'm relying on him for all that I need and, and also, ah giving him credit for giving me all that I need.

31:30.97
Kevin Shock
Um, and, and that, that honestly, that can be a difficult thing to do. I think, um,

31:40.28
Kevin Shock
yeah, for I can think of specific ways that it's difficult for me to do. um and a lot of it, honestly, a lot of it comes up when, uh,

31:51.19
Kevin Shock
when I'm feeling anxious, like for some reason, I feel like it's hard for me to move from like telling, telling myself to quit thinking about this stuff, to just to, to focusing on God and, and looking for maybe some, some, someone else or something else to focus on rather than what's causing me anxiety.

32:18.84
Kevin Shock
Um, I don't know why that's hard for me to do. Although, you know, I'm not a but ah psychologist or a psychiatrist. So maybe if I were, I could answer that question. But I'm just kind of rambling here. ah that ah Yeah, giving Jesus primary space in my life.

32:37.35
Kevin Shock
and And for me, that's also the extension of that is that um that I also give Jesus as people.

32:47.76
Kevin Shock
Meaning... the whole human family right space in my life. um

32:58.09
Kevin Shock
So I think maybe this all comes down to a sense of humility that, that, um that there's not a lot I can control. And, and so living my life as though,

33:12.04
Kevin Shock
there is someone else in control and I'm confident of who that one is, is, is a way that I confess Jesus to be Lord. Um, yeah.

33:25.63
Kevin Shock
And I think for me personally, I'm just a person that, I mean, this is just what's in my, what's in my personality that, um, for me, words are words. I, you know, um, they could,

33:44.19
Kevin Shock
Words don't always reveal who we are. um They should, but they don't always. and And so I just feel like i've I have a particular gift for recognizing when someone's when someone's being sincere and when they're not being sincere.

34:06.93
Kevin Shock
I mean, I guess that's one way to put it. And so, you know, plenty of times someone can say, Someone can say Jesus is Lord, and but maybe they don't live any of that out.

34:19.77
Kevin Shock
So what does that really mean?

34:21.47
Nathan Pile
Right. Yeah. Well, and I, and the, the thing I appreciate that you've shared is that the, like, I'm in tune with just about everything you've said um and would say that, you know, my answer is going to be very similar to yours because of these pieces.

34:40.80
Nathan Pile
That word Lord is the thing for me that is not something I use very often. Right. um it's it's a word that that other than if I see it in a hymn or I'm proclaiming it as a part of our liturgy or I'm reading it as a part of scripture, um don't use that phrase Jesus is Lord very often. yeah i was the That was myself kind of um thinking about your question. like Like the language isn't something that I use very often um unless I'm doing my job as pastor

35:13.17
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

35:16.84
Nathan Pile
um And it's probably written in the bulletin in some way, you know, or I'm making an Easter proclamation in some way. And, you know, Jesus is Lord. You're, you know, getting people to chant and cheer a little bit.

35:31.47
Nathan Pile
Because, know, that's what we do as Lutherans, chant and cheer.

35:33.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah. right

35:35.88
Nathan Pile
ah

35:36.59
Kevin Shock
Right. Where are you preaching on Easter that your people are chanting and cheering?

35:37.61
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

35:39.59
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

35:40.44
Nathan Pile
preaching I preach at camp. It's easy to get them all well fired up.

35:42.97
Kevin Shock
Yeah, that's true.

35:43.47
Nathan Pile
Um, but, but so it's not, it isn't, it isn't something that I use honestly.

35:43.85
Kevin Shock
That's true.

35:49.78
Nathan Pile
And, and even as you were talking, I was like, yeah, Lord is not a word that I use, um, in my prayer life. It's, it's just not, um, and I don't know if it's because, but but like all of the ways that you describe what a Lord is, i do use life giver.

36:12.69
Nathan Pile
um protector, sustainer. You know, those are all ways that I view God and use in in language as I talk about God.

36:25.36
Nathan Pile
um But it was interesting when I looked at that phrase, just in, you know, how do you confess that Jesus is Lord? i don't use that word Lord very often. um And, and,

36:36.82
Nathan Pile
and you know, we live in a democracy. And so that idea of Lords and, and what they meant in government, you know, isn and isn't, it's not very real to me, um,

36:50.57
Nathan Pile
as a, as an understanding of what a Lord is and does. And so that there could be some, um, cultural reasons that Lord isn't at the top of, or, you know, isn't, isn't at the tip of my tongue.

37:05.09
Nathan Pile
um, you know, kind of a thing. And so, so, you know, I'm not chastising myself for not using it, but at the same time, it was an interesting confessional moment for myself to kind of say, it's not language that I use, um unless it's built into our liturgy in some form or fashion.

37:28.34
Nathan Pile
Kind of a piece. Though i though, though I know for myself, as again, as you were describing it, they, they

37:39.28
Nathan Pile
who God is in that role of Lord.

37:45.34
Nathan Pile
Um, those all take, um, that those are all parts and in pieces of that. I value about who God is, um, who Jesus is, um in our world. And so, um,

38:04.03
Nathan Pile
yeah Yeah, it was an interesting an interesting piece of of the realization that I don't really use that word Lord very often. It's not a confession that I make regularly.

38:13.31
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Mm-hmm.

38:17.28
Nathan Pile
And and like the whole whole piece of this answer in my head that... that

38:30.59
Nathan Pile
and maybe some of that's due to my own, my own understanding of what it means to be called to, to be a part of the church, to be a a rostered leader, uh, or, or a pastor in the church.

38:39.95
Kevin Shock
Ahem.

38:41.26
Nathan Pile
Um, I would say that most of the time that I'm making those, that, that confession of Jesus as life sustainer happen.

38:53.36
Nathan Pile
It's a part of my work. It's part of what I do. um

38:59.13
Nathan Pile
You know, there's a, my prayer life would be the thing that I would, though it's connected, yes, but ah to me it would be separate um because it's a part of my own personal devotional life. Even if I wasn't a pastor, I would still have this devotional life.

39:13.13
Nathan Pile
um

39:15.84
Nathan Pile
In that part of life, it's, an it is you know, it's it's not there. So to me, use of the word, or that idea of confessing Jesus as Lord is a professional term for me.

39:30.97
Nathan Pile
Um, yeah, I, I, it was, it was a, uh, an interesting aha in listening to you talk, but also as I, cause I read the question was like, well, not very frequently, um, was my initially, when I read the question, my first response was, uh, how do you not very often?

39:31.50
Kevin Shock
Hmm. Interesting.

39:49.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

39:52.65
Nathan Pile
Um,

39:56.13
Nathan Pile
and And if I do, like I said, it would feel to me that it was ah it was an official duty of the of of my my call to the church um as pastor or to the setting that I'm in, whatever that might be.

40:13.40
Kevin Shock
so So let me ask you this then. what um what If you could substitute another word for Lord, what would you substitute there?

40:21.74
Nathan Pile
I don't know. I was thinking about that. um

40:23.65
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

40:25.19
Nathan Pile
um

40:26.03
Kevin Shock
I mean, I agree with you that like Lord is Again, I think that I think that people in different traditions, in different seasons of life have different ways of referring to God.

40:36.80
Nathan Pile
Right.

40:36.87
Kevin Shock
um

40:37.61
Nathan Pile
Right.

40:37.96
Kevin Shock
So I don't think, and and I'm I'm pretty sure I said at the beginning this podcast, this is not about being formulaic. This is not about saying the right words. So I was just pulling that from the text.

40:45.94
Nathan Pile
Right.

40:48.28
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

40:48.35
Kevin Shock
But but if there were another word, yeah, can you think of one that you would use?

40:53.22
Nathan Pile
Um, in today's world. Oh,

40:57.39
Kevin Shock
Well, in your own prayer life or your own, yeah.

40:58.84
Nathan Pile
yeah, yeah. Well, like I would absolutely I have no prayer like in my own prayer life, um you know, giver of life, life giver. Those those are phrases that I would use life sustainer.

41:12.15
Nathan Pile
um Those would absolutely be phrases that I would use. Um. you know, creator, sustainer, is, is, you know, are all things that kind of pop out to me ah again in the context that I live here. I live surrounded by, um, wilderness, which is beautiful.

41:31.84
Nathan Pile
And so, and it's one of the ways that I encounter and and I'm reminded that, um, that God is present and brings life out of death is is this natural world that I get to um work and play in.

41:47.63
Nathan Pile
um And so those kinds of language, that that kind of language um about naming of who God is um would absolutely be things that would roll off my tongue very easily.

42:00.15
Nathan Pile
um um But I was trying to think if there was, if there's a, a um

42:13.65
Nathan Pile
ah structure of of our world today that would fit that title of Lord.

42:19.48
Kevin Shock
Oh, yeah, I see what you mean.

42:20.88
Nathan Pile
um And so, um because like that that doesn't seem to be as easy to to kind of come up with. um

42:28.95
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Well, I'm I I don't think that there I don't think that it has to necessarily fit into a structure.

42:30.99
Nathan Pile
But,

42:34.38
Kevin Shock
I mean, I think i think your answer, ah you know, I myself said, when I think of Lord, I think of one who's a life giver in the most basic terms.

42:41.11
Nathan Pile
yeah.

42:42.11
Kevin Shock
So, yeah, what you say makes sense there. Yeah, no, yeah I appreciate it.

42:45.99
Nathan Pile
Sure. But other things like Jesus's teacher, you know, those would be, that would be acclimation that I would make. um You know, ah but yeah, what, what, how I would finish that phrase um

43:05.07
Nathan Pile
um is an interesting, would be an interesting kind of thought piece to kind of piece together.

43:10.19
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

43:11.51
Nathan Pile
Yeah.

43:14.78
Nathan Pile
of what it is that we confess. And and that and I think part of my, my ah all of this piece is that I'm, um in who I am, I'm happy to talk about God with anybody. i'm what Who I understand God to be, what I believe in God.

43:35.24
Nathan Pile
um But I find that I'm not,

43:41.51
Nathan Pile
I'm not the one that brings that that topic up. And I think some of that could be my own fear of being a pastor rostered leader that I'm forcing it upon people. And so if you want to talk about it, you bring it up. Hey, I'm, I'm, I'm all in, let's talk about it.

43:54.51
Nathan Pile
But I don't try to be the person that brings it up, um, in conversation.

43:57.94
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

43:59.74
Nathan Pile
Uh, uh, because ah it is what I do. Um, I don't want people to feel like they have to have that conversation with me if they don't want to have that conversation with me.

44:12.92
Nathan Pile
So, um,

44:13.34
Kevin Shock
Sure. Yeah.

44:14.63
Nathan Pile
So I think that part of it is, is also, uh, um, a piece of this, that, that, that part of, as I read this question, what I also hear in this question is, um, I also have a feeling of like, that I don't, that I don't go out and talk about or confess that Jesus is Lord in all of my day-to-day interactions in the world.

44:37.88
Nathan Pile
And I, and I don't know if I feel guilty or not about that. I guess I have to process that a little bit. Um,

44:43.51
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

44:45.30
Nathan Pile
But the question makes me think about that. And, and, and that isn't, and some of that's my Lutheran German heritage too, probably. Um, i I'm not, uh, that's, you know, that's not the way I understand being a Christian.

45:02.99
Nathan Pile
Um, it was, isn't a part of our, at least the tradition that I've been trained, uh, or taught, um, as I grew up in it, that we were out there in people's faces saying, Jesus is Lord, uh,

45:16.19
Kevin Shock
Yeah, yeah.

45:16.26
Nathan Pile
Just you know it is not a part of being at least a German Lutheran Christian. um I can't say that I've met a lot of Lutheran Christians that that I feel are particularly in-your-face kind of Christians.

45:31.55
Nathan Pile
um We do have a tendency to have good news, and and and sometimes it feels like it might be a holy secret because we're not really telling anybody about it. ah Our evangelism isn't...

45:42.06
Kevin Shock
uh-huh.

45:43.26
Nathan Pile
isn't ah okay as passionate as Paul might ah call us to be here in Romans. um But ah I'm not, and again, there's no judgment to that one way or the other. it's it's I think it's just a fact of who we are um and and how we think about making that proclamation.

46:07.69
Nathan Pile
um I think a lot of times when I think about how I confess in public that Jesus is lord

46:17.22
Nathan Pile
it more comes to the way that I treat you than it does by the words that I share with you about who Jesus is.

46:23.95
Kevin Shock
Well, yeah. Okay.

46:25.94
Nathan Pile
that makes sense.

46:26.03
Kevin Shock
Yep. Yeah, absolutely.

46:27.26
Nathan Pile
um

46:28.22
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

46:28.67
Nathan Pile
So yeah know I value for who you are when we're engaged in conversation or we're and not just you, Kevin, my friend, but whoever, you know, it'd be Bob Smith, a stranger who walked up to me and we're having now a conversation, um you know, and so in those ways, there's a confession you

46:30.68
Kevin Shock
Right,

46:36.79
Kevin Shock
right. right

46:47.88
Nathan Pile
my willingness to engage anyone and everyone in a way that to me, as best as I can be, is loving. um Or ah camp, we use the phrase radical hospitality.

47:02.38
Kevin Shock
Mm-hmm.

47:02.34
Nathan Pile
How do we help people

47:07.40
Nathan Pile
know that they belong and are accepted in this space and place? And so being able to to create that kind of a feel for people um

47:19.32
Nathan Pile
It isn't saying that Jesus is Lord, but it is it is recognizing that they, as a child of God, have value in this space and place. And I want to make sure that they know that that's true.

47:32.30
Nathan Pile
um But again, it's not I don't articulate that. I just try to create this that kind of space. so So there's different ways, I guess, of confessing.

47:45.36
Nathan Pile
who Jesus is or who I believe Jesus is and who Jesus calls us to be, but not using words sometimes.

47:49.74
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. And I, and again, I appreciate that answer because that's, I think that was, Partially what was in my mind when I asked that question was, you know, there are, this isn't just about what we say with our mouths.

48:07.26
Kevin Shock
This is about how we live our lives.

48:07.57
Nathan Pile
What? kevin Kevin's questions have more than one meaning? What?

48:13.97
Nathan Pile
Why did you wait till the third season to tell me that?

48:16.81
Kevin Shock
Stop it. ah Oh my goodness. Yeah. Anyway.

48:23.17
Nathan Pile
No, but I think that that is, it is a part of us wrestling with as, as you know, the, sometimes I hear us as Lutheran Christians make jokes about being the frozen chosen, you know, like just frozen in place.

48:35.35
Kevin Shock
yeah

48:35.88
Nathan Pile
We don't like, and ha ha, we laugh about it, but there's probably other ways that we could be more loving in the world. Not that the ways that we aren't trying to be witnesses of that aren't powerful. there's There's some great ways that we as Lutheran Christians are working in the world um individually and collectively, but how can we also hear some of Paul's passion of

49:04.32
Nathan Pile
make this make make these claims, make this make this confession.

49:08.91
Kevin Shock
Yeah.

49:10.90
Nathan Pile
So,

49:11.68
Kevin Shock
Yep.

49:14.36
Kevin Shock
All right. Well, anything else to add, Nathan?

49:17.32
Nathan Pile
I don't think so.

49:18.52
Kevin Shock
Okay. Let's look at some additional text then. ah Deuteronomy 26, 1 through 11. The Lord brought us out of Egypt with a mighty hand. ah Psalm 91 verses 1 and 2 and then 9 through 16.

49:33.80
Kevin Shock
God will give the angels charge over you to guard you in all your ways. um Is that the eagle's wings psalm? I'm not sure. um Anyway, that just those words were in my head.

49:46.22
Nathan Pile
you

49:48.06
Kevin Shock
ah Yeah, I feel like that's in one of the verses. But anyway, ah Luke four verses one through 13, the temptation of Jesus in the wilderness for 40 days.

49:59.78
Kevin Shock
That's a. A an essential text for the Lenten season. Yeah.

50:05.76
Nathan Pile
Tis. to

50:07.70
Kevin Shock
A couple of shout outs we always like to hear when ah people are listening to the podcast. And so I heard from ah Deacon Marsha and Vicker Wendy that they enjoy listening to the podcast this past week.

50:22.97
Kevin Shock
um

50:23.36
Nathan Pile
whoo

50:23.90
Kevin Shock
So i ah we appreciate that. And um for our listeners, both longtime and new, remember that you can go on to Spotify or Apple Podcasts and rate and review us.

50:37.89
Kevin Shock
Uh, you can always, uh, yeah, yeah, it all.

50:39.13
Nathan Pile
That would help. there's always I don't understand it, but it helps. I've been told that.

50:43.09
Kevin Shock
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know why it helps either, but it does apparently.

50:45.11
Nathan Pile
but

50:46.94
Kevin Shock
Um, it, well, it helps, it helps things. It helps things to show up in searches more often. I think the more rate rating and reviewing you have, um, uh, so if you think this is a valuable resource, just take a moment, even if you just click on the, uh, five stars button and don't say anything, don't type anything.

50:52.19
Nathan Pile
It does. It does.

51:04.69
Kevin Shock
That'd be great too.

51:05.59
Nathan Pile
Yep.

51:06.30
Kevin Shock
Um,

51:06.49
Nathan Pile
Yep, yep,

51:07.63
Kevin Shock
You can always interact with us via email and social media. Although I will tell you, if you, uh, interact with us on Tik TOK, you're going to, um, Hannah, our marketing person is going to be the one who interacts with you probably, and not us because Nathan and I have no idea of what Tik TOK is.

51:21.65
Kevin Shock
Um,

51:22.53
Nathan Pile
Yeah, the talkie the ticky talkie, not not our thing.

51:25.34
Kevin Shock
yeah, yeah. Um, but we appreciate all you who listen and all you, uh, especially who are, uh, engaging in this work of, um,

51:37.71
Kevin Shock
of talking about scripture with one another and even just considering it for yourselves in your own lives. So we um look forward to tending our faith with you again soon.

51:43.45
Nathan Pile
No.

51:48.75
Kevin Shock
Grace to you.

51:50.01
Nathan Pile
And peace.