2e High Somatic Giftedness - Author Ethan R. Gibson

Trigger Warning: This episode contains brief references to attempted suicide.

In this episode of the Gifted Neurodivergent Podcast, I interview Ethan R. Gibson, author of 'Nonchalant Perfectionism'. You can find his book here: https://a.co/d/c9fnsTs.

At just 21, Ethan wrote this book reflecting on his journey from addiction and an attempted suicide to his experiences working in a group home for young sex offenders—a journey that offered insights into the therapeutic potential of fostering emotional resilience and self-awareness from a young age.

Despite having no prior writing experience or formal training, Ethan wrote, edited, and published his first book. We discuss how intense emotions fueled his creative process. It might be more accurate to say that his emotions galvanized his intellect to create this book. We also explore how somatic giftedness manifests and how Ethan did something our educational systems often claim is impossible: he created without being instructed. Being twice-exceptional with pronounced somatic giftedness is why this was possible. In other words, Ethan is a savant.

Ethan shares his personal struggle with perfectionism, the pressures of societal expectations, and his journey towards understanding and constructively using his emotions. He highlights the value of negative emotions as a catalyst for creativity and profound change.

00:00 Welcome to the Gifted Neurodivergent Podcast
00:04 Introducing Ethan Gibson: A Journey of Nonchalant Perfectionism
00:25 The Power of Somatic Intelligence in the Neurodivergent Community
01:44 Ethan's Personal Journey: From Perfectionism to Emotional Awareness
21:09 Understanding Emotional Resilience and Sensitivity
24:15 Navigating Personal Connections and Emotional Boundaries
24:47 Exploring Emotional Management Through Physical Activities
25:49 The Creative Process and Overcoming Personal Struggles
26:12 The Journey of Writing and Self-Discovery
30:57 Addressing Emotional Resilience and Recovery
36:28 Insights from Working in a Group Home for Young Offenders
46:29 Reflecting on Personal Growth and the Power of Negative Emotions
52:27 Concluding Thoughts on Creativity, Healing, and Emotional Value

Copyright 2024 Gifted ND
info@giftednd.com
www.giftednd.com

Transcript

2e High Somatically Gifted - Author Ethan R. Gibson

Lillian: [00:00:00] Hello, everyone. Welcome to the gifted neurodivergent podcast. My name is Lillian Skinner. Today I'm interviewing Ethan Gibson. He's the author of a book called Nonchalant Perfectionism. You can get it on amazon. I will put the link up there. 

Ethan's a young man he's in his twenties and he wrote this book because he went on a journey. 

I love Ethan. He was open and warm. I thought, oh, Ethan, you're so perfect. I'm gonna use you for my somatic example and we'll do your book. 

If you have created something and you are gifted, neurodivergent because we need to support each other. This community we're building is about how the twice exceptional move through the world. We are the future. Because we are the ones who mental model, everything we do.

We have forgotten the creative path, it is a blending of your emotions and intellect for those of us who are twice exceptional. We need to bring that back. We're given all this structure, but I have gone on this journey without any structure and still created and he did the same. 

 Those of us who are savant, which I think is many times more of us than we realize are somatic more than we are cognitive. The reason they have oppressed the [00:01:00] somatic in the systems is that the somatic intelligence don't necessarily need the system to learn. 

We learn by being and doing. We understand the theory and we will write it down because we take what we learned somatically, and then we process it cognitively .

I have not been able to get into the system with my science because they have told me this doesn't apply. This doesn't exist. They think somatic learning it's a separate thing. But for those of us who are twice exceptional, It is an integrated thing. We are both. I think that we need to go back to that both. As things change we have known and what we have been taught will no longer apply to the future we're facing. 

 We are walking into change ever increasing faster change. The somatic who are able to realize it, cognitively are the ones who are going to be the leaders. 

Ethan is one of those. 

Ethan: Good morning, Lillian. 

Lillian: Good morning. How are you?

Ethan: I'm doing good. Mondays are the days I don't work. I have a almost full time job. It's more than part time. It's not quite full time. Mondays are the days I'm like, 

Lillian: you're hanging out with me. 

Ethan: Exactly. Yes. [00:02:00] Not up to anything quite yet. We'll see what I get myself into the rest of the day.

Lillian: I get it. Mondays are my down day. Generally. My stuff's picking up with the community building. I have to build this community so that we all don't end up in slavery. Yeah, 

Ethan: There's a few other important things than that for sure. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. It's nice to have one day. That's a little bit relaxed than the other days. 

Lillian: Yeah. I have to have one every three days. 

Ethan: Yeah. Yeah. That's a pretty good ratio. 

Lillian: we have three types of people in the world. We have the NDs and the NTs, and 2Es. It's a mind sensitivity versus a body sensitivity. 

 Then the two E's are the people who are weak in both ways. 

We do things that make us feel whole. We rescue animals. we start group think tanks , educate children. We help them get past their learning, differences. 

 We have these really high sensing abilities and they resolve cognitively, so we know what the heck's going on and can say it. But we're so programmed that we can't open that up anymore. The reason I'm saying all of this is that [00:03:00] I think that you are one of those people. You're so young, you're just starting to crack it open by yourself. So it's fascinating to talk to you.

Ethan: Yeah. It's interesting because the body, in my experience at least, there's a book, I've read a little bit, but it's called The body Keeps the Score. 

The body I think, can really identify and tell us what is good and what things that we should avoid . I think of emotions as part of the body in the sense that you can physically feel when something doesn't feel right.

 It's hard to, talk about without sounding insane, which is fine. I'll do that. But you have to talk in vague terms . I think emotions are part of our body's way of pointing us in one direction or the other . So when I passed out in front of everybody, that was my body saying, Hey man, something's got to change. This isn't working. 

Ethan: Since then I started taking antidepressants and last month I started [00:04:00] tapering off and I'm still tapering off of them. But now I feel like I'm starting to get back that sensitivity to what I'm feeling.

 If I feel off about something or if I feel really good about something, it's like another tool that I can use to lead me. I feel better about this situation than I do about that situation. The body really keeps the score. 

Lillian: Yeah. Now we understand that it's not the body keeping the score of trauma. It's the body keeping the sensory understanding of the world.

Ethan: I like that. Yep. 

Lillian: is our sensing intelligence. . What we do to heal it and quiet the body. Is we allow the body to put the signal up to your brain. 

Ethan: Yeah. You have to accept what the body's doing. It's going to be really difficult to fight against what your body's telling you to do. 

Lillian: It makes you insane because you're having to battle your own body signals and the emotion just get higher and ramp up. They're like, no, no, you're going to get this message. This is where CPTSD come in because , Those are both messages saying you have been through this before. Let's not do it again. It really sucks. 

But we're captive, we're trapped. Then [00:05:00] we're trying to figure it out,. Because our captivity is covert it's mental captivity . All the schedules, the fact that we have to go to school, we're not allowed to leave . That's the captivity of the school, but it's , we're gonna let you go in the evening. So you're like, well, am I captive? We're all under Stockholm syndrome, essentially. 

Ethan: Yeah, that is wild to think about. I think it's true. There's an elementary school right behind my house.

 Right on the other side of the fences, the schoolyard. On Mondays I can hear the school bell go off and all the kids go in and it goes off and all the kids go out. It's almost like it's a jail. That's the same elementary school that I went to. 

 So it's weird one to just be on the outside of that, but even through middle school and high school, the whole idea of this is a schedule and the bell will tell you when to leave and when to go. It just seemed so low energy is the word I'm going to use.

Shouldn't we be able to do something better than what we have set up here? I definitely didn't care academically about any of it. Maybe I sh well, no, I shouldn't have. I don't even care now. 

I try to tell myself and no . 

Yeah. I was like, no. I think [00:06:00] college is better, but I dropped outta college twice.

 For me it just wasn't the way to go. But I think you're right. I think it does, really limits. It's like putting a governor on the capability and the room for potential on all the kids. especially with all the different, learning styles and all the different ways that people absorb information to try to , I don't want to say dumb it down, but it seems like it does dumb it down . I have a lot of friends who are my age, who are in their 20s . Like what you said with Stockholm syndrome, they have been in school longer than they haven't been in school, right?

So they have elementary school and then middle school here in Idaho. Some places don't have middle school. We have middle school and then high school, and then they have college and they've been in college for years and years. I want to sit back and say I know you don't know what to do after college, but I think they're just so Used to the schedule of college.

They're so used to the schedule of school. They're so used to having I have assignments to do this and it's almost like they're afraid [00:07:00] to just go out in the real world , and figure it out and get a job they hate. I don't know. It's hard for me to say this cause I wasn't in college for more than two weeks.

Lillian: you really figured it out quick. 

Ethan: Yeah, I guess. Yeah. 

Lillian: Procrastination and perfectionism in my brain is the exact same thing. It's me trying to figure out the perspective someone else wants me to take. So I please them.

Ethan: Why would we need to learn that? Why would I need to learn to think like other people so I could please them? You go to school and you learn that every day. You have a teacher who's comparing and what does she ever do back for you? She doesn't actually ever meet you where you're at. Not once. 

yeah, she just sends you to the principal's office. 

Lillian: Unless she's like extraordinarily exceptional and has 10 heads and 20 arms, we don't empower them to even try to be good teachers. 

then you get to your work and your boss is like , you're really lucky to have a job. You're like, actually for the price you're paying me, you're really lucky. I show up that's the real truth.

Ethan: Yeah. It's it's. Far too common. 

 , [00:08:00] it seems like the whole, system created now was done in a way to profit and to make as much money as you can. So it's founded on greed 

Ethan: and it's founded on dishonesty. When you have something that the foundation is. Greed and dishonesty. It's not gonna last. 

 Any relationship, romantic or otherwise that's founded on dishonesty is never going to work. 

Lillian: It only works if you subject the smartest, most brilliant people into an oppressive state. Everybody will follow them They're the most aware in an environment nobody's telling you the truth in an environment where you're having to figure it out as you go, the people with intellectual autonomy are going to be able to figure it out. No matter what that is. 

It's a little bit weighted, whether your body smarter or your intellectually smarter, you are body smarter. Your story about how your body was like, Nope, we're not doing this. And it knocked you out. 

Ethan: Yeah, yeah. It turned off the lights. 

Lillian: that story told me Ethan is body smart. He needs to just translate it up to the cognitive. 

The body is better to [00:09:00] be smart because you're not as easily indoctrinated 

Ethan: yeah. Yeah. I think it, and that makes sense. You have more of a sensitivity to what's being told to you, right? Or to the environment that you're in. Yeah. Yeah. Then you get an idea of what's going on. I think that resonates with me. I think I definitely am more body smart, which is fine. You know what I mean? Yeah. I liked it. Passing out man, I'll recount that story if you want me to , I like that story.

Lillian: It's perfect. Example.

Ethan: Yeah. I passed out in front of a crowd of about 300 people, right? That was when I was 18 and leading up to that, I. Definitely a perfectionist mentality. In school, even though I didn't care too much about academia, there definitely was a little bug in me. That was you're not going to care. That's fine. But you got to be perfect in the a little bit that you do care. It was very self critical and I would scrutinize myself, to do as well as I cared to do.

What really got me was when I started playing sports, when I was playing soccer, and when I was [00:10:00] running track, I would stress myself out to the point , of nausea, just to make sure that I was performing well and I was a good member of the team I was so self critical that it didn't matter what any coach would tell me, or it didn't matter what anybody would tell me.

Cause , there's nothing you can tell me that I don't know already that I need to improve on. That sort of mental stress It's like a pressure cooker, right? There's just so much pressure. It just builds up that carried its way into when I was a missionary and as a missionary, , it was the same kind of thing.

I have to be perfect and following the mission rules in how I'm speaking to other people studying that I'm doing so that I know what I'm talking about. 

It further, , increase the pressure of that pressure cooker. further scrutinized further self critical.

 The mental dialogue was constantly. You're stupid. You didn't do that. Right. What are you doing out here? You should just go home. There's no reason to do this. There's no reason to do that. It was as if instead of having [00:11:00] an angel on my shoulder and a devil on my shoulder, I just had two devils that's basically what it was.

It was constantly a barrage of, you're not good enough. You're incapable. You don't understand all the time. That one Sunday morning, I was asked to give a sermon essentially, and the congregation had about 300 people in it, which up until that point, I had done other sermons to about that size.

 It wasn't necessarily. A nerve wracking thing though. I was a little nervous the hours leading up to the time that I was supposed to speak was just normal. , I went through my regular speaking routine. Just a light breakfast and I drank enough water. All the things that you would do to make sure that you can function normally I did 

 Except for workout, which is fine. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This curls for Jesus., I get to the point that the meeting starts as a missionary, you have a missionary companion, someone that you live with and you work with . He also gave a [00:12:00] sermon. After he gave his, there was, , one of the youth, I don't remember how old he was young, maybe 13 or 14.

He gave a 30 second talk, said like six words. I was like, okay, 

Lillian: Thanks, I can follow that. 

Ethan: Yeah. Yeah. I wasn't too surprised. I'm pretty sure his seat was still warm by the time he sat down. It was amazing how fast he moved. After that, the whole congregation rose to sing a hymnal and while everyone was singing, I was just looking out of the crowd and still that running dialogue, make sure you say this, if you don't say this, you failed, I have to please everybody essentially Was part of the running dialogue . Okay, I have to do this. I have to do that. If I don't do this, then I failed them I'm incapable. I don't even know what I'm talking about. Just a storm a hurricane of negativity going on in my brain. I'm standing there and I'm looking at everybody almost like someone did just flip a switch immediately.

It sounded like everyone just started humming and no one was actually singing. It sounded like all the pipes in the organ were stuffed with foam. Is so [00:13:00] weird. The only thing I was thinking, I was , I have to deliver this message. I wasn't thinking about, maybe I should sit down. None of that. 

I was hit with a wave of nausea, like never before , and then everything was blurry too as if I took my glasses off. Which I didn't. But I know I have my glasses on so I should be able to see somewhat clearly. I wasn't seeing clearly and the last thing I remember is I turned over to my missionary companion I said, hey, I don't feel so good and that was it.

I then woke up and I was staring up with all these people around me They're like we got to get this guy taken care of the one thing that stands out While I wasn't able to move or to function well, physically, my mind was active as could be, and I was pissed off like none other.

I was so mad. I was laying there on my back and all these people were rushing around me and I was just swearing. Everybody was getting cursed out. I have never strung together even [00:14:00] since 

This is in your head, right? Not outside. 

This was all in my head. Yeah. They looked at me and I would just look like I had just woken up from a 30 hour nap or something.

But in my head, I was I try to swear less. So I'm not gonna say everything that I said in my mind, but in the book. , I have asterisks for all the swear words and there's sentences of just asterisks. They asked me questions like, do you know your name? in my head, I'm like, F you, screw you, you son of a, of course I know my GD name, like none other. The only thing that I could say was, yes, my name is E, Ethan, I, that just further enraged me, because I knew, What my name was, and I knew, I should be able to tell you this information.

 They had called the ambulance. The reason why I was told is I was unconscious for about 15 to 20 minutes. They told me was that is highly uncommon for someone who, passes out typically they'll pass out [00:15:00] maybe a minute, maybe three minutes, they're unconscious. Then they come back, they can stand up and they're good and, but I would my body , battery was ran out I just was done I can just remember 

Lillian: you pulled a 20 minute snow white. 

Ethan: Yeah. Yeah. It was Hey, we're done. We're going to take a breather. I can remember coming out of that and like that evening, sitting in my apartment there and just thinking there's no physical reason in a sense that even at the hospital, they said, we don't know why you passed out.

They're like, you're healthy. I might've been 19. Like you're young. That's not a typical thing to happen, which only made me more mad. Cause I was like, , this is, this has been useless. I could have just gone home and been fine. I didn't have to go the worst part was in the ambulance.

They put an IV right on my wrist. So I couldn't even bend my hand. So I was just, Enraged , with the whole thing. And I finally was sitting there and I was like, this must have been more of a mental [00:16:00] and emotional thing than a physical thing. And that's when I started to become more aware of my, the running dialogue in my head, because I didn't have a choice other than to figure out what happened and how do I make sure that doesn't happen again, because it's, for me.

I was okay. I was fine. I didn't hit my head too hard. I was okay, but that doesn't mean the next time I wasn't gonna, have more injuries from the actual falling over. I'm sure I terrified everybody in the congregation. Like I just, that's a situation that I don't want to repeat.

So I had to figure out. What's going on and how do I really take control and manage these emotions and process these feelings so that I can function, even function on a basic level. Obviously, I can't function at all. If I'm passed out 20 minutes every hour, that's not going to work. That was the I think part of [00:17:00] that was a huge turning point for me.

Was to pass out involuntarily and then realize and start to become aware of what is actually going on inside my head What am I saying to myself? Why do I feel so why do I feel such a need to? Yeah, please all these people that I don't even know . It would be a different story for my mom and my dad, for people that I love. obviously I want to please them in a sense that I want to make them proud. , but that's completely different than just trying to please random people all the time.

 There's a difference there. I started to become aware of my emotions. I feel like before then, growing up, it was almost as if I wasn't even conscious. I don't know what life is. I don't know what's going on. It took passing out in front of hundreds of people and swearing in my head for 20 minutes, however long it was being unconscious to [00:18:00] finally realize there is power in processing emotions and , it can be a huge detriment to not learn how to manage the emotional side of things I would say now I am grateful that happened. It's a fun story to tell, luckily I didn't hit my head so hard or I didn't fall hard enough, hit anything, that there was any physical ailments that lasted from it. But , it was a turning point. It was a hinge point for me to get on a path of, I got to figure some stuff out so that this doesn't happen again.

I feel like that moment. I think everybody has a moment where they realize they have to make changes. Hopefully they don't pass out. If they do, they should call me because I would love to talk to somebody who had a similar experience. 

Lillian: I have this on a daily basis. Okay. Yes. , this is my pots and seizures. My pots, is physical body. My body's like, [00:19:00] no, we can't take this anymore and it makes me pass out. My seizures are , your brain has so much growth. We have to clean it up. It results in the same thing the POTS does. I go down, I'm out. I can be out a lot longer with the seizures. 

 Your body had so much anxiety, had so many messages. It was trying to cram all these messages into , this little tiny window you had to please everyone. And it was not possible. You're not doing it out.

Yeah. Yes. Yes. It shut the door. Shut the window. 

I played the glockenspiel. I played in the marching band. Every year I would come to a parade and pass out right before the parade, because they put us in these thick polyester outfits. I always got sick leading up to it, probably because we're practicing so much. I would pass out standing in line. So I never did a parade. They finally just said, maybe you should quit, honey. , I think you're having a thing that's keeping you back 

Ethan: You got so close.

Lillian: I used to get bloody noses and they would try to tip my head back, , please leave me alone. Same thing with you, for the love of God, I need space, . Yeah. That's inside, on [00:20:00] the outside you're like. Okay. . . 

Ethan: Yeah. On the, yeah, on the outside. I didn't know. In English, . Oh, wow. Dang. So that's crazy. You got so close to doing so many parades, huh?

Lillian: Yeah. My parents were performers, so I was put on stage to perform. It was emotional overload for me. I never enjoyed it. I would choke, especially if I got a solo. I would choke multiple times during my solos, I think of all these performers who are so gifted and they have to take all these drugs. , they're more like me than they're not. . I couldn't take drugs as a six year old. 

Ethan: Yeah. Not, and it wouldn't be worth it. 

Lillian: they weren't handing them out at the time . Now they're like, candy, here kids, more psychotic drugs. 

Ethan: Left to your own devices without a support system, 

Lillian: I was in attack systems. Everything was an attack system because I didn't fit, but they saw potential I could be harnessed. When I was harnessed, the potential to be great. as soon as they got me to that point where I was going to deliver and make them look good. I pass out or something. 

Ethan: It's like jokes on them. 

Lillian: The joke really was on them. 

Ethan: That's being sensitive to what [00:21:00] your body's telling you is incredibly important, right? Because I could have passed out and then been like, that was weird. And , not changed at all. Surely I would have passed out again or, there would have been another situation that was just as, Crazy, one of the first chapters of my book is called emotions are cool.

The idea about it is to just accept the fact that we're going to have emotions. We're going to have a far array of emotions all the time. I am under the belief that we can't really control When we feel certain emotions. I think they can come up and we can be in certain situations that we know aren't going to make us feel this way are going to make us feel that way.

But for me, sometimes I'll just be angry all day and I can't really pinpoint it, but that's okay. The idea is the foundation of developing emotional resilience. Is to accept that and be okay with the emotions that come and the emotions that [00:22:00] happened. I could have not accepted having passed out as a mental troubleshoot.

 I don't know what would have happened, but I know I wouldn't have improved in the ways that I have. That idea of being sensitive to what your body is telling you is under that same umbrella of accepting the things that maybe you can't Control. Maybe you can't manage, but that's okay.

 Like I said, sometimes I am just pissed off all day . I don't know why . What I do is I don't let it get in the way of me doing the things that I need to do. So I can feel a little bit better. I know I'm pissed off a day. I know I want to punch everybody I see. I need to go to the gym. So I'm going to go to the gym. 

My depression is far worse than it has been for a long time, but I still need to cold plunge with cold plunging when you're depressed and it's for whatever reason. It's March right now, but it's below freezing outside. That's the worst time. 

 I'm so sick of winter. Like Idaho has been an internal winter forever. 

Lillian: Yeah, I grew up in the Canadian border. I know eternal winter.

Ethan: Oh my [00:23:00] gosh. I love the cold. I love it. , I'm a big fan, but I'm so sick and tired of it. When I wake up and I'm way anxious and I don't know why I'm anxious or I don't know why I'm depressed or angry or some days you wake up and you're just happy . Take those moments as they come. Cause it's not going to happen tomorrow. It might, but it's going to leave. I think is the essence of being able to have a sense of emotional resilience and emotional intelligence to say, man, today I don't feel right. I feel off, but I still have some things I know I need to do and I got to get them done.

For me, when I cold plunge or when I work out or when I sit and talk to my mom or connect with anybody, I I feel better, but I might still be angry, but I feel angry good. To hear you talk about that does resonate with me because you have to listen to your body. I think there's power in sometimes accepting circumstances that you can't change. Obviously, I can't say except all your circumstances, because some people's circumstances, they one can change into are very detrimental, but I think there is [00:24:00] power in accepting but not surrendering to how we're feeling.

 It's very rare. I can really only speak about my personal experiences, but it has been very rare that I'm able to control how I'm feeling. I'll meet somebody and I'm like, I don't like this person at all. I'm not going to try . But I'm going to be cordial.

 This person bugs everything about them. Irritation. Yeah. Yeah, 100%. So I'm never going to hang out with them ever, but I'm going to be nice. I'm not going to try to force myself to like them. Because pushing my body to a certain extent, I'm probably going to end up on the floor.

So there's just power in. Accepting but not surrendering how we feel in our emotions and, in that regard.

Lillian: I hear what you're saying and I'm going to give you back a little bit of your emotions are cool thing. You said cold plunge that makes so much sense because you're basically giving yourself a shock of dopamine. Then you said exercise gets rid of your anger, which makes sense because dopamine is also the happy thing, you're getting it exercise through now. 

Both of these things are [00:25:00] interesting because what you're doing is you have a block at your body, emotional translation to your cognitive. 

Your body's pushing it through essentially with these shocks. Exercise heats up your body, gets it going. I know a million people that do a hot bath to reset their emotions so they can find peace. I'm adding that third thing. You got cold bath, hot bath and then exercise. 

 That hating people. I had a couple of physical therapists doing therapy on me. I was like, I hate this person. Why do I hate this person? 

 My mother like, , that person really dislikes you. I was like, what? Oh, I thought I was feeling that towards them. 

I actually was feeling their hate for me. Yeah. they were annoyed. I was a little snotty 13 year old in there. They were manhandling me and I wasn't being agreeable. That's how it is with those of us who are highly sensitive.

 Be quiet. And fly right. 

I really want to know your creative process because you're so young. You're able to put out a book. I have written four and I can't edit them because once I get the book done, [00:26:00] I'm so exhausted I never want to see this again for the rest of my life. 

Yeah, I get that. I get that. 

How did you get through the whole process at 20? You said you wrote this?

Lillian: 21 through 22. , my creative process, and that's a good question., I let things marinate a lot

for this book in particular, after having gone through the suicide attempt and climbed out of the hole, I had these principles that I thought were helpful that definitely helped me I basically would write a little bit like a paragraph, maybe two paragraphs and then it took, oh gosh, a couple of weeks.

 I was just marinate on it. It sounds so counterintuitive, but I would ponder and think about it and think about it and think about it over and over again. I would go through the reps of what this means, how does it help me? Then finally, when I would sit down and I just wrote it on a Google doc, [00:27:00] nothing crazy.

 When I would sit down, , I would just start typing as I was typing, I think all the time that I spent marinating on it, thinking about it, pondering about it . It gave me the space , it gave me the fuel, to actually then type it out. And have it make sense.

Because I felt what I wanted to say, and that was enough for me when I got the words on the page, then I was able to change the words around and see how it made sense. I've always been, intrigued by, poetry I used to listen to a lot of rap just because I liked to hear how they would put words together.

There's just so many lyricists out there that I like to listen to. Having that. Interest and then having a feeling that I wanted to convey on the page and letting it all sit and boil together for sometimes weeks, sometimes months. Like it really took a long time.

 I didn't start writing and I wouldn't get behind the page until I really felt like, okay, now's the time. It's a very intuitive [00:28:00] thing. It's really hard to articulate. I think I could probably write better about how I write, then I can talk about how I write. When I was behind the page, then I was like, okay.

This is what I want to say. As I would start writing, I would start thinking about, all these different words and a sentence would come together then I would look at the sentence and say, Oh, I could add some alliteration here, or sometimes I'll have a short sentence and , the first 4 words start with the letters like A, B, C, and D. Then the next words will start with C, B, A. So it mirrors each other with the center words. , it came out of me and it took a lot that is just marinating.

Right now there are two other books I want to write. One book I'm focusing on more than the other. I can tell I'm in that stage of it's not ready yet. I'm still putting it together. There's also a side of it where, It wasn't going to get written unless I wrote it.

So there was an aspect of, I had to force myself for lack of a better word, to get behind the page and start. I would delete a lot of stuff [00:29:00] in doing that. It all came together. I don't know if I've really understood it quite yet. At the very least, I'm getting an idea of how it all works for me 

all right, so ethan, let me break this down for you because you are savant. What you just described was the savant process. Not only did you not go to college for this you actually would have been taught out of this in school, but you still managed to produce it in your 20s by sheer will of your body.

It's the most savant story , because this is how it works for us. You are so somatically gifted that it comes out cognitively, whether or not you want it to, literally, that's what that sitting , is your body, putting it into the cognitive state. And it's so intense for our bodies because our systems don't teach us to create, they teach us not to create. 

So if you are a creator, what we need is space, freedom. You managed to make it so young it's phenomenal to me. Because you are so raw and pure in your talent . We've been [00:30:00] programmed out of seeing this, but everything you described, the emotions, the resistance, the percolating, all of that, totally the creative process in its natural way. I completely want you to come into my group and work with us because we're documenting the Savant method.

We are so filled with emotion and it is supposed to be creating something. It's supposed to make art. It's supposed to change the world. Yet we are never taught that we're taught to push it down, push it down. 

But when it comes up and you funnel it or you have the space to do what it wants you to do. Out of it comes beauty. You change the world and you're so young and it's already here. Most people can't find it back until they're in their middle age. 

 When you don't go into it, you are in anguish and despair. This is your body screaming at you. You have to do this. You get no choice. You never need to go to college. You'll be teaching colleges.

I like the sound of that, but I don't even know if I'll be doing that.

 I intend to make a savant college. Seriously. 

Ethan: Oh, that's cool. That's awesome. 

 I. Had [00:31:00] bottled up like you said bottled up any emotion for so long and I had these negative coping mechanisms That I would turn to so I didn't feel the fester I bottled it up and it boiled up at the same time . As a way to Get past that and not feel that . like I had these just negative coping mechanisms Which would numb me, right?

I didn't feel it, but it got to a point where the stress, I had a business at that time that was failing essentially. I went out and tried summer sales and that failed. On the tail end of these failures, Which, now looking back, I wouldn't call them failures, but at the time, when in the moment, it was very much, I failed, I failed, I failed.

 On the tail end of that, and feeling like I had no way out. Because like addiction, because I, I'm in recovery of an addiction to pornography that has just plagued my life for so long it numbed everything, but it gets to a point as all [00:32:00] addictions do where it, it stops numbing, it stops working and you can't numb out. Numbing out. 

 Suicide that's the ultimate numb out. , suicide started to look very attractive to me. , it wasn't all at once. Until it was all at once. If that makes sense. Like it took some time for me to actually to feel committed to it.

, in the moment I was going to, uh, shoot myself the overwhelming sense I got was that this is the wrong choice. I'm sure I talked about this in the book, but. There wasn't any, lightning, there wasn't, a huge miracle, God didn't come sit next to me, none of that happened.

, all I could feel was, this is the wrong choice. I wasn't even told what the right choice was. It was just like, this is the wrong choice. I think that was enough for me to say, well, if this is the wrong choice, then, by definition, there's gotta be a right choice. That was just like enough light for me to be like, okay, [00:33:00] I guess I should find the right choice if this is the wrong choice.

 That's my story and it involves me and I talk about it, sadly, I think it's so common for a lot of people and that's why I wrote this book and why I want to start talking about emotional resilience because . Without any sense of, , a sense of self awareness, and a sense of how you're feeling, and a sense of what your emotions can do for you, positive or negative, without any of that, , life is gonna do what life does, it'll tear people down, and I think that would be the ethos , of the book is just to help people understand emotional resilience because , for me, it's life and death.

 If I stop this constant, , obsession of, , Having to, , stay above my depression and stay above my addiction and stay above all of that. If I stop that endeavor for me, it becomes life and death. I think that's all too common. [00:34:00] I don't know why I don't know how to fix it, but I think I can at least help, you know?

 so from that attempt , came all of this I wouldn't have imagined it I think if I was in that moment and someone had told me this was going to happen, Immediately would have just told him to shut up. What are you talking about? 

Lillian: It would have hurt actually, when you're told positive things, when you feel like crap, you're like, no, no.

Ethan: Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't do any good. Yeah. It just makes me more mad. So yeah.

Lillian: I think that it's pretty common for the truly artistic. I think we are tortured in this world because it's captivity. We're not meant to be captive. We're supposed to be free. I wrote a post yesterday about how our journey, the hero's journey is essentially us leaving the village because it's too small for us.

Our brain needs more and we're seeking ourselves in the world. We're not in our small communities. , we're rare. So we have to go out into the world and we travel along. , today we can do this via, , My podcast but I did it with my children and for other people the first couple of times.

 This is my [00:35:00] third one. This is finally one for me. What I'm doing is going out into the world. I'm, trying to find others like me so I can get the mirroring that I needed because all I was told was how I , was wrong. I knew in my soul, it wasn't, I didn't get a choice. I have a singular path and I have to stay on it.

Or I'm literally falling down. It's, the most insane thing in the world because they take the people who have zero choice, but to create change that will move the world forward and , they try to break them. So they don't. 

Yeah. 

So of course we have addiction. Of course we have despair. Of course we want to destroy ourselves. , the thing that's most amazing is. We have two versions of it. We have the kind who destroy others, and we have the kind who self destroy. And I can't help those who destroy others, because the world validates that.

But I can help those who destroy themselves. Because I know that journey, and I know it comes from our heart and our empathy, and it's the total, complete, compassionate empathy that, makes you not destroy others but yourself. So, [00:36:00] thank you so much for being that open and honest, because Very few people will ever admit it.

It's such a hard and brave thing to do. Then you went and wrote a book on it and it was 22, which is so phenomenally brave. I can't even put words to it. It's amazing. 

Ethan: Thank you for saying that. It's very, very kind of you to say that. , , 

Lillian: Can you tell me about the time where you were at the home, how that was and the growth that you had there?

Ethan: I think the experience that I went through , of , being in recovery for addiction and then the suicide attempt and all of that, I think that helped me while I was living at the group home as a staff member. I wasn't admitted to a group home. 

It was a male group home for sex offenders and the age range is from age 12 to 17. these boys have, , Some sort of sexual misconduct. It's different for all of them. Essentially, they're all sex offenders [00:37:00] and they go to this group home and they're in there. They call it treatment, right? This is the home you're talking about, right? The group home. 

Okay. I wanted to make sure. Yeah. Well, no, okay. Yeah. So at this group home, they are there for their treatment? It's court ordered. So they're under state custody.

And they really determine how long they want to be there, depending on how, committed they are to, their healing . ,

Lillian: this is all under 18, right? 

Ethan: Yeah. Correct. Yeah. The oldest kid I think we had was 17 and the youngest was 13.

 all of them have victims, but all of them are victims as well. To go in there and to have sort of the experiences that I had, a lot of these kids wanted to result to self harm yet., It was never to [00:38:00] me that they actually wanted to go through with it. It was more of a cry for help.

So I would talk to a lot of these kids one on one and they would just say, an array of things. I feel so guilty. I don't feel like I should be here. I'm not good enough. Just so , self destructive what I really tried to do because they're so young, right? I tried to help them understand. Look, I tried to separate the adolescent from the adolescence.

 While also not minimizing whatever it is that they did to whoever it was. It was such an eye opening experience for me because it helped me understand justice versus mercy. Right? Like, for myself, in the relationship I have with myself, Yes, there are things that I need to do to, I can't just go around hurting people in any way.

Right?, that's not cool. I can't do that. But the same goes for myself. I can't just negative self [00:39:00] talk to me. I can't just be so hard on myself and so self critical that I can't do anything. But I also can't give myself an inch because I know that I'll take a mile. I guess what I'm getting at is to be in such an intense scenario and to deal with such, hurt kids , it helped me have compassion for myself and the little kid inside of me, if that makes sense,

I think we had 16 boys there and, 14 out of the 16 really and truly felt a lot of remorse for what they did.

The other two is a little bit more difficult to work with. , but to go to such a raw environment. To see the problems and the issues that these kids are going through at such a young age is just so eye opening. One, to help me see I had an amazing childhood regardless of any [00:40:00] trauma that I have for myself.

And two, , these kids are so resilient at a young age and they kind of have to be. Like, so much terrible things happened to them that they acted out in the only way that they knew. And yet, They're there and they're facing their problems every day, and they don't want to be there. Obviously, they're scared to be there.

. It's way more comfortable than juvie, of course, but it's not comfortable by any means. They're just there confronting their issues, confronting their problems, and it was just a testament to me, this is how you improve, is you have to confront your issues, you have to give yourself mercy, and for me, like I said, I will work so hard to not do anything, , I know that I have a ravenous wolf inside of me that is it's carnal, and it just is lustful, and it just wants all these things, and I know that there's, There's pot that I can learn from it, but I know that I can, if I give it just a little bit, it'll take a mile.

I don't know if any of [00:41:00] that really adds up. 

Lillian: Can I ask a question about the kids 

Ethan: Yeah

Lillian: one thing that always makes me sad is , when you're going through your physical changes, it's intense. It's a lot going on there.

If you were molested or , anything happened to you, that boundary is removed. So you're not aware that it's not okay. These are children. 

These are children who are repeating a process when in a culture where we are taught to do what adults say and never question. They were repeating a process that, that was put on them, that They weren't able to question and they weren't able to know it's appropriateness or not.

 I feel like we condemn people when they're children for things without understanding that this is a part of our culture. We don't allow questions. We don't allow people to progress as they naturally are. We cut that off. when you do that, the ramifications are ,that spreads.

 It's a ripple effect for the trauma that we pass on. One of the things that I'm trying to do is reverse that , 

that ripple effect went through my [00:42:00] family and I suffered for it and I was doing as much as I possibly could to keep the damn up so that I wasn't passing it on. But , I was put into a parental role and I wasn't a good parent as a 10 or 11 year old, I was losing my mind and screaming and throwing things. That's not what you wanted to see. I was actually damning that back. Because my parents would actually lash out worse.

, it's a horrible thing because you're so flawed when you grow up in environments like that. You think that you're irredeemable. You're trying to be, the best product you can have that environment, but it's still the worst environment.

So what did they expect? It's heartbreaking.

Ethan: It definitely is heartbreaking. I was only there for about 3 months. , but really quickly. I caught on to this sort of topic of, I worked a lot to help these kids feel. Like they can change because a lot of them are just so hopeless, rightfully so, , to have gone through what they went through to do what they did to [00:43:00] then be in a group home. , they're going to be there for an indefinite amount of time unless they age out, which is I think down there it's till 20 something.

 They have so much pressure. The weight of the world is on their shoulders and I really tried to help them develop their own emotional resilience and their own love for themselves while also helping them see that there was a mistake made. That was perpetrated against them and that they perpetrated against others, but that doesn't mean that they can't change and at that age, all that they know is. The terrible thing that happened and the terrible thing that they did. , they're just ripped from all their comforts. The kids that, changed and grew the most or the ones that had their families visit them once a week, their families were always calling them.

They can make calls and they were always getting letters. They have such support. Because their families knew and understood that kid had gone [00:44:00] through hell, took someone to hell. Now they're in hell, but if they're loved and if they're supported, they can change and get out of it.

 It's a very hard thing to help them realize because in the moment, all that they see is 10 feet down the road. They don't see like that, that there's change, that there's positive things ahead., for me, it's just a reminder that's the way it is for everybody. , we can change, we can, it's not going to be easy by any means.

, I don't think it's supposed to be easy. If it were easy, . We wouldn't grow stronger, but if we do want to improve certain aspects in our lives. We definitely can. And I have a lot of respect. I think about these kids a lot because I just learned so much about myself so much about, , like I said, justice versus mercy.

Like it's like you said, it is heartbreaking for them to be so young and be in that environment. And they, what's was the most heartbreaking was the kid that was 13, like he had to [00:45:00] grow up. He didn't have a chance to really be a kid anymore. 

He had to go to court. He had an attorney. He had a case manager. , he had things that kid really shouldn't have. They shouldn't have to go through that. It's heartbreaking , I'm like, sorry, man, but you don't have a choice to be a kid anymore. You got to grow up. And that was very heartbreaking to see that.

 At the same time, , he's still a kid. You know what I mean? Like everything about him screams kid, except for the fact that now he has to handle his problems like an adult.

He doesn't have another chance. 

For him and for the other kids I tried, and most of the staff there was under the same thought process that I was.

 You'll have a few staff who really don't care at all. But we, did. We tried to do what we could to help them see that they can grow out of this, [00:46:00] yet. But I also felt like if I was that young and didn't have a choice, but to face my emotions at that age as best as I can and realize the consequences to become self aware.

I think that can be a good thing. If it's done the right way, I think they, were introduced to it the wrong way, I guess is how I would say it's just unfortunate. 

Lillian: , 

everybody has their stories. I got married at 18 to a guy who was in his later 20s and he was abused as a kid. , that goes forward because at 18 years old, you should not be getting married. And a guy who's in his later 20s should not be dating a 17 year old, but I didn't have anybody to protect me. My parents were actually fine with him which should have been a red flag. Instead they were like, no, have her.

 Obviously these children were lacking some protection and, it was a failure on many levels when these things occur, it's a failure fundamentally because our culture does not teach [00:47:00] us to have comfortable version of intimacy with each other from like an infant's level. We don't know what comfortable version of that is. 

with my children I went out of my way to establish early. This is healthy and we can talk about the other part. You will hopefully never witness it. But when it feels wrong, that is not healthy, 

right?

We need healthy in order to know what unhealthy is. I feel that we've really lost healthy. now we're supposed to read the tea leaves for unhealthy, right? That's not possible.

 I know that you grew up in a healthy home, so you have that foundation. You're also incredibly high sensing. That part was the part that you got denied that repression of the somatic giftedness, it is a negative thing.

Honestly, most of the neurodivergent negatives are the suppression of our somatic giftedness. It comes up and looks like disability, but that is just giftedness suppressed. How sad that that looks like disability when really if you just turn the switch the other way, [00:48:00] it would be expressed in the most beautiful manner.

 Essentially you did. You turned it the other way and all of a sudden it's a book you created something to help people grow. I think the most amazing thing is not only did you go through this journey, but then you produced something beautiful out of it and you're so young and , yet so profound.

Can you tell me what's your favorite part of your book? I want to know what parts of you the most enjoyed writing and what part you feel the most proud of. 

 That's a good question. , I've been thinking about that. , My favorite, the first principle, emotions are cool for me, the one I think about most often because I constantly need a reminder that I can't control really when my emotions come up or what emotions come up or how often or anything like that.

But I can decide how I'm going to respond. I have the power of [00:49:00] choice. , so that one probably comes up the most. I think that has got to be my favorite. For me, it's the foundation of all emotional resilience, , any discussion about mental health is you have to come to terms with your emotions.

If you don't, they'll run you over. My favorite thing that I wrote is I had this idea and I thought it'd be so funny and I don't know if it's that funny, but most books have, a quote at the beginning, right off the preface, they have a quote and then it starts and the quote supposed to tie the whole book together.

 This is the quote that I came up with. It just says, pretty sure I'll think of a good quote to put here. Yeah. I'll think of something. 

So I, it's not even anything about what the book is about, but I just thought that was really funny. Um emotions are cool is probably the one I think the most about. However, I think I enjoyed writing the section called enjoy your happiness the most because it was a difficult thing for me to articulate and I don't know that I did as good as I could have [00:50:00] of what I was trying to get across.

. In that section, what I'm trying to say is happiness is just another emotion that will come and it'll go. If we obsess over wanting to always to be happy, I found that the less happy we are. Really, we just have to let it wash over us, and then let it go, and it'll happen. If we try to hold on to something that's not there, and if we try to, it's almost like, we are suppressing any other emotion so that we can feel a little bit of happiness But that's not quite how it works I think enjoy your happiness was the most difficult to write and convey emotions are cool my favorite section and then my little quote at the front is the thing that I Find the funniest.

Barbara Frederickson, I think is her name or Frederickson, something like that. She has a theory called broaden and build, and she talks about positive emotions and how we broaden and build on them. They keep your thinking expanding. She's wrong though.

It's the negative ones for us. For the most creative, it's the [00:51:00] negative that broadened and build and produce. incredible, immense, huge thinking and art, essentially. , the good ones produce, things that are pleasant, but it's the negative ones that produce like the holy cow, I got it, 

 I think we need to realize that Those of us who are outliers, we have those negative ones, but they have a purpose. They're supposed to bring great things up. I find it fascinating that our whole culture, our mental health systems have decided to only focus on the positive.

Like that's where you create. When in reality we all know artists are going insane because they create in the negative. But the negative when used to create resolve into brilliance. They resolve into trauma healed and trauma healed is the most extreme version of learning. So those of us who are forced into our negative emotions, we've learned to stay in them.

We learned to get through them. We learned to find the gem that is trying to reveal to us. We are profoundly gifted for it. I mean that literally, I mean, it is part of profound giftedness and we are [00:52:00] not told how to use it. When you do this process naturally, I know that means you're a savant because your somatic intelligence is so great that it will connect with your cognitive come hell or high water.

 It's what's going to happen. This is what I'm trying to show people is that They're trying to connect, they're forcing it to connect. Those of us who are most gifted, it connects in the negative, not the positive first, because they're so powerful. I'm really excited to work with you on this.

Lillian: I'm really excited to go through this process so that you can build this and you can show other people with extreme clarity, how they do it. Then you can help other people go on this path that not only educates, but also heals so that they can be a creator because our system's way of making you do art.

, I didn't bother going into it for writing because I took a couple of writing classes and there were people with four degrees in writing got a hundred grand in debt for those degrees and none of you are published. Like, what is the purpose?

, artists don't need the [00:53:00] system. That's why we're shut out the truest artists actually are broiling in their emotions and intellect and nobody tells them how to create it and connect it. , we go through that journey and then when you find it, oh my gosh, it was worth it.

It was worth to go through the hell to come to the other side. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. , without having gone through the dark tunnel, you wouldn't have hit the light at the end. You can't really appreciate that until after you leave the tunnel, , yeah, it's a beautiful thing.

, it's so beautiful. That's the whole thing that I also want to try to help people understand is to appreciate all negativity. . Oh, well, all negative emotions, maybe value it not. Appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I like that word of much better. Yeah. Yeah. To value it. Yeah. Because it can really teach you.

You can learn from it. If you can learn from it, then you can let it go. That's awesome. That's really cool.

[00:54:00] ethan Gibson It was a delight to talk with you. 

I'm Ethan R. Gibson. I add the R when I write, cause it's like a little bit more formal, but, I'm Ethan Gibson. 

Ethan's not a really popular name Gibson's not really popular, but they're both not unpopular. So you need the R. Keep it. Yeah

 everybody run out and get Ethan's book. He's going to keep growing. He's amazing. Awesome. Thank you. Take care.

All right. That's the podcast for this week. I think Ethan is a delight and I'm looking forward to working with him. We're going to find many more savant together. If you are interested in working with us, we are building mastermind groups right now for people who have really high emotions, they are empathic and they're looking for what their savant gift is or how to cultivate it. 

 Talent savants tend to show up in middle age I was just reading an article on Robert Frost how he basically spring out of the woodwork and middle-age as a poet. All these people who have amazing talent and they've always been told, no, you have to make money. You can't pursue this, but right now, they're [00:55:00] letting go the creatives and the sensitive. This is an opportunity for those of us who are not being valued by the system. To find an exit. 

If you're interested in joining, please contact me@infoatgiftednd.com. Thanks so much. 

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