The Vision Quest Podcast
A podcast about life, sports, and life in sports! Enjoy!
The Vision Quest Podcast
#97 Mike VanBrill: Overcoming Challenges to Achieve Wrestling Glory
Mike VanBrill's journey from his family's roots in Indonesia to becoming a standout wrestler at Rutgers is nothing short of inspiring. Imagine growing up with a grandfather who survived a concentration camp, instilling discipline and athleticism in future generations. This episode offers an intimate look at Mike’s early life filled with a variety of sports including baseball, football, hockey, jiu-jitsu, and BMX biking, all of which fueled his competitive spirit and shaped his wrestling career. From sibling rivalries to navigating the balance between parental pressure and encouragement, Mike's story is a testament to resilience and determination.
What happens when a young wrestler faces disparaging comments from an opponent's father? For Mike, it became the fuel for a pivotal victory that set the tone for his career. This episode dives deep into Mike’s experiences with tough competition and the loyalty he maintained to his training environment amidst the ever-evolving collegiate wrestling landscape. Listen in as he recounts his transformative high school years, the grueling J Robinson Camp that reshaped his mindset, and the pressures of transitioning from high school to college wrestling.
As Mike's collegiate wrestling journey unfolds, facing weight struggles and the highs and lows of competitive sports, you’ll gain insights into the emotional and psychological challenges of an athlete’s life. From setting a world record in cliff diving to grappling with the abrupt end of his wrestling career due to the COVID-19 pandemic, Mike's story is one of perseverance. This episode also explores his venture into real estate, the importance of personal branding, and the broader lessons that sports teach us about life and resilience. Join us for a compelling conversation that transcends wrestling, offering valuable lessons for athletes and non-athletes alike.
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Thank you guitar solo.
Speaker 2:Thank you guitar solo we ain't going over again. We ain't doing that over again, we're starting now. All right, buddy, everybody, we are here, we are back for you, I think it's. I think we're at almost episode 100, um, but we are back for another episode of the Vision Quest podcast. We are joined by a very special guest. I kind of talked to you a little bit before because we've had Sri on and on. You're like hey man, I know that guy and I started looking at some of the stuff you've been doing in some of the video things. We're going to talk about that in a little bit further down the road, but you've done some pretty cool visual stuff and it turns out that's what you're doing. But I am joined by mr mike van brill uh, of what's the company name you have now?
Speaker 3:um well, honestly it's kind of a like a side thing, just like, okay, mike van brill, honestly okay, yeah, yeah all right.
Speaker 2:So of rutgers you wrestle. Uh, 140 was a 141 149.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all over the place, man.
Speaker 2:141, 149, 157, yeah what you got up to 157, holy cow, I did not see a match that I. I'll tell you this much right now. I don't do enough leading into what like, I guess, telling the story about you from before we get to you. So you're born in this little town called malika hills, right is it malika? Uh, malika hill? Yeah, malika hills. Okay, very small like I. I was kind of intrigued when I first found in 1701, but man, tiny, yeah. And what was the high school you went to?
Speaker 3:it's called cleary regional high school okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So with with the small town you're from, let's talk about your mom and dad. So they were that. Were they from there? Did they originate from that area in jersey?
Speaker 3:yeah, so I'll start from the very beginning, if you don't mind. Yeah, yeah, so I didn't choose wrestling, wrestling chose me. I was born into a family. We were an immigrant family. My grandpa, you know, basically started it all.
Speaker 3:He originated from Indonesia, way back in the day, indonesia, um, way back in the day, and, um, you know, long story short, he ended up in a? Um, a bad situation down in Indonesia where the Japanese war came in and took over and, uh, he was just a young kid that you know started off, um, you know, in a concentration camp, young in his age, where he was, you know, working and um, you know, he was actually young enough to not actually, um be like a worker, um, so he was actually like in the mountains and he would tell me stories about how he used to, you know, with the other, you know young, you know kids, they would get into these bamboo huts, make these bamboo huts and they would wrestle each other, um, and then, so that's where the Bambrill wrestling, uh genetics started way back in which is, yeah, so that's where it started, um, and he ended up actually fleeing um, you know, leaving uh Indonesia with just like a backpack and a hundred bucks and a kid, and and and my grandma. They went to Holland, um, raised four kids and then they didn't love the opportunity in Holland, so they actually moved to New Jersey, um, where they had, uh, my dad, who was the only brother of six boys to actually be born in um, america. So, yeah, and when they got to, you know, New Jersey it's funny my grandpa was sponsored by a church, um, so he was just a dude that came in as a janitor and, uh, you know, and eventually worked his way up and started his own business, own business, entrepreneurial business. But you know, when they first got in there, all of the brothers right were my. My grandpa was a disciplinarian guy, so he kept them relatively straight and they, basically, you know, we do hold all these weird events, tumbling events and all these things. So it was in my genetics that, you know, I had some sort of athletic background and all of them went into wrestling, uh, for Clearview regional high school and, um, you know, we actually had one state champion, uncle, um, he was my uncle and he actually won New Jersey States and, um, you know, went to like a Juco college and ended up wrestling for the U?
Speaker 3:S and, and you know a little bit, but not nothing crazy. Um, none of them actually went to college and went division one. Um, me and my brother were the only ones that, uh, you know, went to college and division one and stuff, but really that's kind of where the whole wrestling journey started. And then that's how I ended up in south jersey, um, where you know I was born, and then kind of had to, you know, start my career at clearview high school so were there other sports that came?
Speaker 2:I mean, just obviously you had the wrestling kind of background right, but were you trying other things as you were kind of going along like a any other usual kid? Would you know soccer one year or something, football, but was there any any other sport that you stuck with along with wrestling as you kind of grew up?
Speaker 3:yeah, it's funny. I actually love this conversation because you know, um, I I grew up playing all different sports. I played baseball, I played football pretty heavily, um, I played hockey, um, I did a little jujitsu and I played, um man, all the, all the sports. Honestly, you know I was a bike rider, bmx, or I was huge into biking, um, and all these different things, right, and and it sparked my interest in just like competitive sports and just being you know a kid, honestly. So, yeah, I played a bunch of different sports growing up.
Speaker 2:What were your parents like? As far as we always talk about a support system, what were your parents like coming up in athletics? I mean, we'll talk about it even more as we get further down, but like, just as a kid, was your dad as competitive you hear about, not like crazy dad, but he?
Speaker 3:knew what it took to kind of be able to push the limits a little bit. Where was dad at practice was, how was dad or mom when it came to your athletics? Yeah, so my parents were really present for my like athletics in general. Um, my dad ended up pursuing a division one, uh, college. He was soccer, he was, uh, so he was a soccer player. Um, you know, and, and that's what? Yeah, you said you were a soccer player. You know and and that's what? Yeah, oh, you said you were a soccer player. Cool, yeah, they were, they were super supportive. I wouldn't have been able to do it without them and my dad.
Speaker 3:So, you know, kind of like rewinding back, my dad started us in wrestling and you know he was more so adamant on wrestling or soccer. You know football, obviously it was fun and you know whatever. But you know I'm, I'm a, I'm a, you know, I'm like five, eight, like not that, no, um, so, yeah, so it was just kind of like from the start. But my dad started us in the basement of my house, me and my brother.
Speaker 3:We would, uh, he, you know, after school he'd bring us down into the basement and he would just have us drill, drill, drill. He would say finish these 20 singles, 20 doubles, 20 high crotches, all this stuff. And then he would always be like, hey, if you do these moves correctly and you do them perfect, we'll be able to go upstairs and we'll have dinner and we'll be done for the night. Turns out, every time we would do them perfectly and we'd get to that last rep. He would just repeat and do it all over again, so there was never an ending. And then by the time we were done me and John, me and my brother we wanted to wrestle each other because we were so competitive like unbelievably competitive that he would just have us go at it down in the basement.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, super supportive as I was growing up basement, um, but yeah, super supportive as I was growing up and um, yeah, they, they, really helped.
Speaker 3:What was the age difference between you and john me and my brother? Just about two years.
Speaker 2:One year and 11 months so you guys had a nice spread. You kind of had some good partners, practice partners that maybe maybe your brother didn't feel the same way like mine didn't when I practiced with him, but but it sounds like you were able to kind of compete and you had that drive and both you had it. So that makes really good partners. So, and you had that drive and both of you had it, so that makes really good partners. So when you guys would wrestle, would he go to certain tournaments and your dad would be like, oh no, you're not ready for that one kind of thing. Was there a balance like that? No, he's doing it, you can do it too. You're fine, you can compete in this. How was that?
Speaker 3:So my dad was not so and that we so you know, my dad was not like a guy that was going to baby. Any of us, like he had me go up in the upper, we would, you know, do like a larger age groups like I wouldn't go into my age group. Um, you know, I'd wrestle on, you know, higher age groups. My brother and me we would wrestle in the same tournaments. We would go compete. That's when we really started, you know. After, like you know, 8, 10, 12 years old, I wrestled for a Seagulls wrestling club. It was really well-known, I should say, but it's been around since the 1970s. I grew up in that club. We basically trained all the time We'd go to War at the Shore, all these different travel clubs let's read that about you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right, yep so, yeah, I mean, we would just compete and we, you know, try and find the best competition and like that's kind of how it all started. At a young age I started when I was four years old. Yeah, yeah, hard. So what.
Speaker 2:So when become it seems like you east coast guys, I tell you what man like it, and I've never heard a story yet where dad was insane, dad was crazy. I just watched a video of a dad shoving a ref today at a tournament, but you had a dad that pushed you right. It was the same thing I did with Liam, because I mean, with soccer, in athletics in general, like to be in the top of whatever you're doing. You have to be doing things that other guys aren't doing, right? Yeah, seven, eight years old, I didn't make him do workouts, but I made him come down to the basement at 5am to understand that he had to get up at 5am sometimes to make this stuff work. I said pushups.
Speaker 2:I don't care what it is, but it seems like your dad had that same kind of mentality and I wasn't down here hounding him. This was up to him. Like this was the time where I was able to leave him alone and do his thing. Before we go up to the practice room and start kind of needling with that type of of I don't even want to call pressure with that type of push. Did you ever find yourself kind of like, eh, maybe I don't want to wrestle, or did you guys feed off of that and you're in your? It was the thing you needed to keep going was how your dad kind of gave you that push. Did you ever find yourself want to quit?
Speaker 3:yeah. So I think this is actually probably one of my favorite conversations because it shows how, like, oh, you can be, you know you can have, you know, at the end, you see all this, you know success, but, like in the beginning, there were so many trials and tribulations that people just don't see, right, right, um. So, yeah, I remember, uh, specifically, you know, um, early on in my career. My, for me, like I love to bike ride, I love to be out with my friends, I love to just go in nature and, like, cliff jump and have fun and just be a kid, right.
Speaker 3:So, you know, my dad learned to kind of mold his just like ways of, you know, being a father. Right, he saw that when, I, you know, wanted to skip practice and do you know something else, you know, it got to a point where, like you know, he almost had to back off because I was losing a passion for the sport. So, yeah, there was a time cause I started when I was four years old right, there was a time, a long period of time, where I just like got so fed up with wrestling and I almost wanted to quit. There was a time in my middle school career where I almost gave it up. And then there was a time in high school actually it was after my freshman year of high school I almost quit.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So that's, that's that timeframe Like that's kind of curious, cause that's I mean, if you think about it just as as guys ourselves really start to kind of rebel a little bit. You know, you got that testosterone going now and you're like I got this, let's, let me do this kind of thing. And we had it with Liam too. We understand like we're kind of going through that right now and so I've had to.
Speaker 2:I've I've known that where I put in like you said, the club that you go, you went to, was around forever. So your dad probably knew that. You know the guys in the club and and and things like that. But Liam kind of grew up to the point to where I put him in front of people where I thank god I could finally just be like I'm done, I don't have to do anything anymore.
Speaker 2:I could step back because I didn't want to get to a point, because I could see myself I was doing that to him in middle school and I had to kind of visualize okay, would I want this? And it's hard, I heard I, I know it's hard, I know not everybody has a carry cola dad with cattle prods and things like that. But everybody gets pushed to a point and it's just kind of. It's kind of interesting to see where everybody has that perspective of like you know, I really could have, but I didn't because I had this and you had to drive. You really had to drive. So, with that being said, what was one of the tougher tournaments you were in when you were young, like really young?
Speaker 3:Probably war at the shore. I remember specifically it was kind of one of the turning points in like my youth career. It was war at the Shore. I remember specifically it was kind of one of the turning points in my youth career. It was War at the Shore. I was kind of floundering. I had success in wrestling but it wasn't really a point where I had nationwide success at all. Very beginning. Um, that got me to the semifinals match against this one kid I wish I could remember his name, but he was ranked number two in the country at the time, obviously as a youth youth you know what I mean like not high school or college, but still they're making a name.
Speaker 3:They're wrestling around the country. There's obviously, you know, some sort of um ranking around. He was a big name guy and you know I made it to the semifinals and I was walking hallway right with my dad to go look at the brackets because my dad was all excited. He was like, man, we're at the semifinals, we're doing good, you know. Finally, and we were at the bracket line and we were looking at the brackets and my dad was like, okay, here you go Looking at the next match on who I have right. And there was my opponent's dad was sitting right next to my dad, didn't know that they were both next to each other and my dad, or his dad, said something nasty about me.
Speaker 3:He was yeah it's like he was just saying, like you're gonna crush his kid, like yeah, he's nobody at all. And my dad heard that and it fired him up. He was like mikey, we're gonna go out on this mat and we're gonna crush this dude. Like I want you to just go all out. And I was like I don't know. I was just like fired up. I was just like I don't even know why. It was a bigger purpose versus just like oh, like winning a match. It was like no, like I'm going to, I'm going to prove to the world like you know the country.
Speaker 3:My dad, like whoever- that thing match, and I was a kid that was like really relied on like big, uh, fancy moves, like I wasn't the kid that went into practice and had really good basic technique. Looking back, should I have probably did that, maybe, but I just was the kid that would just throw quarters and throws and all these different things. Right, but it benefited. Next thing, you know, I found myself in the second period. I rip a quarter, nelson, I'm up like I don't know, like four, four or five points and I squeaked out a win against one of the top kids in the country as a youth kid.
Speaker 3:So um that like was a real big deal for me and like and that's what helped me, kind of like, um, continue to believe that I was going to be able to do something in the sport oh yeah, so that that does set someone up for you know just a, not only just a, you know success for the weekend.
Speaker 2:But I mean that really can turn like you said. That can turn your mind into what, what you think you're capable of. You know what you think your, your mission could possibly be. You're like holy man, if I could be this guy and then I keep working, I could, I could go and beat this guy, I could be this guy. That's awesome, that's. That's really good to hear, especially at such a young age. Because, again, we're in the midwest, I wouldn't know. We're starting have tough wrestling. We're starting to kind of climb back to where we were from in the 80s. But you guys have always had monsters out there and beasts as these little kids and these dual tournaments we go to. When you started, were you guys into the dual tournament scene? Did you guys? Did you guys? Oh, he's this many pounds, we'll wrestle up to this one for you guys. How was that kind of a dynamic where you guys gone every weekend?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So we would travel with Seagulls Wrestling Club all the time. We didn't have like the best team but we always tried to find the best competition. I don't know if you know some, some studs man that came out of Seagulls I just you'd never knew. One was Miles Martin. He was a national champion and he was a national champion no kidding.
Speaker 3:Yeah, he wrestled with us all the time. I'm trying to think of a couple other guys, but yeah, I mean they just so. We had a couple tough guys, but it wasn't a well-rounded team. And I just remember going to these tournaments against like PA Gold, pa Blue, like all these stacked teams, right, and it was just brutal because it was like, okay, I'm going to compete against some of the best kids in the country and you know, we were just like this, like little team at a little town, um, but it was one of the best things for me to start early at those tournaments because it just it, just like you get around, I remember just wrestling guys like Vincenzo, joseph, like all these guys. They would just be wrestling. I wrestled Vincenzo, I wrestled these guys, those guys. So when you get to a higher level, you're like oh, like I've been around this for a long time and it starts to build like confidence within yourself that you can actually be there.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Well, the other thing too is is you at such a young age, plus the competition that you're able to be around, Did you find yourself maybe thinking I need to, I need to get out of this room, I need to move, I need better competition, dad, I need better partners. I got to get this. Did you ever did you have to move on? Was there another club you had to go to to kind of expand the skills a little bit more?
Speaker 3:So here's the one thing about me and just like I don't know if it's, you know it's I stay very loyal and I keep a small circle and I've been that way. I can say that now because you know I was with Rutgers for six years when it was popular for NIL to come out and everyone to start changing up teams and like bouncing around because you know they may not have a starting spot or they're going to get money somewhere else. I wasn't that guy. I was the guy to just stay planted, you know, continue to build my relationships with the coaches, with the team, just like everyone around me and like I felt like loyalty was so strong to me that I wanted to be that.
Speaker 3:So, looking back, you know I was loyal to Seagulls. I wrestled there and I believe that, you know, as long as I train my hardest and continue to just like put my all into it, then I'll be able to just like do anything and and it turns out that it's right. You know there was, you know you look at, you know oh, like, oh, blair kids, all these tough like and not to knock all those teams were oh, yeah, yeah like looking into how I succeeded in the college level.
Speaker 3:Some of those guys like bo bartlett, some of these other guys that trained at blair. I turned out to be beating those guys. So it's not necessarily like you know. You look at conor mcgregor. He he's a guy that stayed at some of the the same training centers and you know he was able to succeed. So I don't necessarily think it's like oh, you got to bounce around and try and find all these different things right, there is a balance right. You've got to have good partners, you've got to have a good environment for you to continue to work up and succeed. But at the same time it's like dig your roots and like trust in yourself.
Speaker 2:Very true, very true. I think Ben Askren had said something about that at one point too is that you don't have to have you know world partners and things like that. You have to just got to be smart in how you wrestle and be smart how you practice, because I mean, it boils down to a lot. You don't realize it as a kid, especially even once you get into high school, because you think you know it all. But I mean nutrition, you know things like that and and just coming up and things that we don't teach our kids necessarily, you may try to, but in the, in the, I guess, in the smoke of it all, you kind of get lost, like you, just like you want your kid to do well, okay, here's some spaghetti, but you got to wrestle harder, jimmy, you know that kind of thing. So with, with the time that you came up in the competition cause you're naming some pretty big dudes and you beat one of the big, you beat Bo Bartlett. So I mean, when you're coming up and with the competition that you had, and knowing you know your loyalty in in the things that happened, you know whether it was good or great coming up and you had a few good matches.
Speaker 2:Where did you see yourself? Kind of middle school Were you? Were you waiting to get to the high school period? Where you're in, middle school Like, this is not, I need to bump up, I need to get to the further level, how? How was middle school for you Cause? I think that's kind of an awkward time I think a lot for a lot of guys when they're wrestling it was a super awkward time.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, I went to clear view. Um, there was a timeframe where our clear view program really was bad. I mean for for decades, I mean literally decades, all before it happens, man, yeah yeah. But my brother actually, uh, you know, graduated and went into high school and uh, there was a couple other like studs that you know trained at the Clearview youth team that was aware of like coming up. So what we did, my dad and some of his friends was they actually recruited a college coach, a guy who wrestled under Dan Gable for Iowa. He was a national finalist. His name is Keith Moreland. Oh yeah, yeah finalist.
Speaker 3:His name is Keith Moreland. Oh yeah, yeah, for Virginia tech, um, and he found himself in the little town of South Jersey one summer to do clinics at Seagulls, um, and at the time he had left Virginia tech and he was looking for other opportunities. There was a friend that he had in South Jersey that brought him out to make money and do camps and clinics and stuff.
Speaker 3:He actually recruited him to become the head coach of Clearview. So I knew that, like while I was in middle school, they were planning this bigger thing going on.
Speaker 3:They were trying to build a bigger team. You know, clearview didn't have any success, but they were trying. They were. They were trying to do something and I was. I remember I was the guy.
Speaker 3:Somehow I was either caught in between weight classes or just, you know, like looking for a competitive advantage, or maybe I was just. I was always the guy finding myself cutting weight. So even in middle school I was the guy that was just eating cliff bars, barely drinking water, didn't really know how to do any cutting weight either. So I was like, oh, let me weigh this piece of cookie on the scale. Oh, it's 0.1. Let me eat that because I'm going to be light after practice. Little did I know that all of that cookie would hold all the water weight and then I would gain a pound from a little cookie. Just I learned the power of whole foods and just like you know water contents and how different you know real food is from processed food. So that came later down the line. I'm kind of getting myself.
Speaker 3:But middle school was a time, a transition, where, like I wasn't really owning up to like all the success that everyone thought that I was going to have Right, so I was finding myself just like in tight matches with like weird people, I wasn't progressing. I was finding myself worried about making weight all the time. I wrestled for a travel team called Delta force and that was a big uh travel team that I would, you know, compete with. And, uh, shane Griffith was on my team actually a couple of miles team and that was the timeframe where I was still trying to like really see if I was any good. Um, I actually wanted to like, really like give it up a couple of times in middle school. I wanted to ride bikes and have fun and just like enjoy myself and that's, and that's kind of. I was in a weird transition period where I was just. I was in a weird transition period where I was good enough but I also was struggling to also have passion, because I've done it since I was four years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, right. So we get to see you guys as college wrestlers. We watch you as you're getting ready for a match and you see you guys doing your certain things that you do every day. Not every wrestler has superstitions, but you definitely have habits, right? Sure, were you starting to gather? We'll say gather. Were you starting to gather habits along the way of? I did this the last time, help me. Was it pacing, was it music? What were you starting to kind of gather as a young wrestler, as you're coming up, finding your groove, because there's certain little things that set you up mentally, right, I mean just for the positive direction of whatever a weekend brings, you try to. I need to have these socks along, I gotta have these shoes along, I need to have these headgear. What were you building?
Speaker 3:little things like that as you're going along so like that's kind of fast forwarding a little bit in middle school like not not really like I didn't I wasn't really personally developing.
Speaker 3:I wasn't like having like what I call like a champion mindset, like on and off the mat, on and off off the field, whatever you're doing, like you know, building that like character within yourself, like in middle school, like I was dabbling, I was having fun, I was figuring out who I was like really just kind of having. Um, I wasn't dedicating myself to the sport, that's for sure. That's kind of where, you know, I, I, I went into into freshman year of high school and I saw the downfall. I was having tight matches with kids that weren't really top level and then I was struggling to beat those guys that were in that state tournament. So I found myself going 0-2 at states. Actually, I'm sorry, I didn't even make it to states.
Speaker 3:My freshman year I beat the number one seed at Regents. His name is Johnny Gentile. He was a wrestler for Paulsboro and his brother went and wrestled for ruckers. But he was a really tough number one seed. I beat him, upset him the first round and then ended up losing my way out of regions. Didn't even make it to states. My freshman year, um, sophomore year, I, I didn't. I went oh and two. I made his estates but went 0-2. And that's when my dad and my people around me were like Mike, you're at the point where you're a sophomore in high school and you're not doing anything. So what's going on? Like where do we go from here? Like where do we go from here? And after my sophomore year of high school, I basically got coerced into flying across the country and attending a military boot camp. It was a wrestling boot camp, intensive boot camp, and I'm sure you know it. It's called.
Speaker 3:J Robinson Camp and my dad basically. Basically, he was like dude, you gotta go do this. And I was like like nah, like I'm good, whatever. And he and he bribed me with a little bit of money to to go to this camp and was like yo, if you get the I did it shirt at the end, then you'll get the money. So I was like you know what? All right, let's do it. So me and my brother.
Speaker 3:We went to, we flew to minnesota and like it's like 90 to 100 degree heat and we went 30 days at the jay robinson boot camp. Uh, it was like, um, you know, six days a week, um, you know, really just crazy workouts, um there was tons of training and you know, like I said, there was just a lot going on at that, at that camp. So a lot.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was, it was. It was pretty insane. They would, like you know, give you negatives If, like you, didn't have your shoes tied, you didn't show up at 6.00 AM with your shirt tucked in, or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Um so I guess Robinson didn't mess around too much back then. Huh Stories are true.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it was, it was a big deal. And, um, you know, so me and my Stories are true the young, um, the younger brother, that was like no, let's do it, let's go. Um, we stayed, we, we stayed for the 30 days, we ran the 15 miles at the end of the, at the end of the camp, and we developed some really, really good habits. Um, you know, we, we, we finally were like okay, this is what hard work is, this is what it's going to take at the next level. So we started to like actually, um, put in the work and feel like, okay, you know, we're putting in the work, we're feeling like, you know, this could be something. And, uh, I think it really propelled me to do something great. The next season I uh, junior year, I took fifth in the state and then, senior year, I took second. So, like you know, started, uh, started, a run for me.
Speaker 2:So that's that's interesting, that the in it's always kind of a different concept of of trying to figure out. You know, especially when you're a teenager trying to figure out exactly what you want to do. Right now we're in the recruiting process with Liam 17, 16, 17. These kids are as kids. I mean, you guys are putting some high pressure situations with just the sport itself. And now you're talking about trying to.
Speaker 2:You know, everybody's asking you what's your gig? What's your gig? You go to this camp and boom, kicks in the ass and you're ready to roll and obviously there's things going to work out. But you now have this, you know, have this vision in your head of what you want to do finally. So you see what it takes, you see how hard you can, you know, work and put yourself through things like that. Did that really? Did that really kind of turn everything around for you, just mentally, even as you got into college? Once you're starting to kind of get away from the high school scene and and with that being said, was the high school experience then, from that, that point on um, a little more focused for you?
Speaker 3:definitely yeah. My junior year is when I decided in my mind, um, that I wanted to be a division one college wrestler, right, and I think that's one of the biggest things that someone who's you know, a high schooler, an athlete, or someone that just wants to achieve like something great in their life is that you have to finally decide like, okay, this is what I'm going to do, and like, this is the goal that I want to chase after, right. So I think that's like the biggest thing. It's like, okay, what do you want to do, what do you want to be good at? And like, how am I going to do this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and then giving giving the background that you had and then, now that you've been given the tools, you know as far as just what you found yourself going through and being able to put yourself through, it's big. I mean I remember trying to train for soccer. I mean I walked into, walk on like tryouts, really not doing much and that was ridiculous, like I should have done more, but I still. I got through three days of tryouts and I got through three days of getting slammed up against the wall by you know 18 and 19 year olds and I'm 20, 21, just like still smoking and getting out of the bar, like that's what I was. But I still had a goal and I knew I was going to do it and I I literally I thought I was going to die at the end because I shouldn't have been doing what I was doing.
Speaker 2:But you almost died at a camp. Because I know that those J Rob camps are not fun and I know that they will. They will work you to death. It's in. There's a reason I don't think they do those anymore. I think they close those down now.
Speaker 3:They did thing that I did, right, it trained my mind to like, um, because when I started my junior year season right, I knew I wanted to try and be a division one wrestler and I was the guy that was cutting 20, 25, even like 30 pounds in high school, right, um, it was brutal. So what I had to do is I had to go uh, you know, I went through a full day of school barely, and you know, trying to do this thing, and then I would go to wrestle, wrestling practice and we would do like hour, hour and a half hard goes. We had a division one college coach, you know. So it was, it was a serious room, right, and after that what I would do is I would go home, I wouldn't even, I would kind of grow Sometimes I wouldn't even shower.
Speaker 3:I'd go home, I'd put on plastic sweats and I'd go and run six miles and that was just like to make weight every single day and like it was insane, like it probably wasn't good for, like you know, like health or longevity or whatever, like I knew that I wanted to, like I wanted to be great and like for me to like wrestle up a weight class or like just try and like half half ass, it really is like that's not going to get you to where you want to be. So I dedicated myself to go down a weight class where I knew that I could, you know, go ahead and be competitive in the state tournament. So, yeah, that's. That's kind of where the work ethic started. I was like six miles a day, practice run, lifts, like all that stuff, every single day, without barely eating. It taught me crazy, crazy mindset stuff that still, you know, helps me today and you were reminding yourself to do those things at that point.
Speaker 2:Right, it wasn't. It wasn't dad coming to your door, knocking on it and saying hey, it's 5 am time to go run. You're gonna run your own doing that.
Speaker 3:That reminds me of actually a story real quick yeah, no, yeah, hell yeah we won all those, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:So there was a funny. There was a funny point in my high school career where I had one of the biggest matches of my career coming up Right and you know he was, he was ranked like top in the state and you know we had a home match. It was dead winter time and I actually got sick. You know, I I got like like a strep throat. There was like white, like tonsils, like terrible. I I got like like a strep throat.
Speaker 3:There was like white, like tonsils like terrible, really blown up, could barely even swallow, um, but I had to wrestle, you know, and that was going to give me a ranking for States. So what I did was I toughened up and I the worst part is is that when you're sick and you have to cut weight, it makes the weight cut like extremely difficult, like because you can't drink water. How are you going to? You know what I mean. You're sick, you're supposed to be hydrated.
Speaker 2:Everything you need Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So I was dead on the couch and I was deciding if I wanted to wrestle. Um, you know, and just like there's that mindset thing, right, it's like it clicks in, it tells you to just get up and go. So I went downstairs and I ran six miles with trash bags on while my tonsils were fully swollen to the gills. I couldn't even swallow, mike, good lord, it was so bad and I went on and I went on and I won the match and I set the tone for that year. So it's just funny that you said that no one was pushing me. My parents were actually telling me Mikey, slow down, you're good. Maybe just take off for the week, just relax. Just you're good, you know.
Speaker 2:But it's amazing to see that transformation. Right Like you. Like you were talking about seventh, eighth grade You're like you're getting beat by guys, even your freshman year, that you probably shouldn't have been. Yeah, and you really starting to. And Liam's getting there too. I noticed the similarities here because he's really starting to do things that he didn't do before. And you're like, oh, there must be things starting to fire properly. And now you're starting to take care of things. So, with that, as you grew into that junior year, were you in the frame of mind where you're like I'm going to go to college and wrestle. This is what I want to do. I want to. I don't know where I want to go, but I'm definitely going to college and wrestling. What? Where did you start? Having that thought start to spin around your mind?
Speaker 3:um, really, it was after the j-rob camp when I was like you know what I put so much into this already. It's been my whole life competing like I gotta actually try and make something happen. I got two years left and this is the time for college you know, coaches to come and start recruiting and start to do things. So there's no other option but for me to, like, go full force in the sport. You know, um, and just and just try, try and take over and make something of myself, because time was ticking. You know, oh, and don't make it the state's freshman year. You're oh and two, and then, you know, you're set in this timeline where you're like, okay, it's either go or don't go. You know what I mean. And, um, I started just looking at colleges.
Speaker 3:My brother, um, you know, he was in that weird frame where he took fourth in the state.
Speaker 3:He lost to David McFadden in the semifinals.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, know, and just like you know, he had some tough matches and things and but, like you know, he didn't really go ahead and get like a crazy scholarship or anything and it put him in like a tight spot where, like he didn't necessarily know where to go. Um, and right at the right time. Ruckers came in at the very end and just offered him like a decent amount to try and get him there and uh, that's when he went and and actually, uh, you know, went to ruckers and like I saw that, and I'm, like you know, went to Rutgers and like I saw that and I'm like you know what, I'm going to try and get my competitive edge. I was like, dude, I got to get more money, I got to try and get a full ride, like you know what I mean. I got to go and like I want to like do that.
Speaker 3:So I had my eyes set on Rutgers pretty early on in my junior year season and at Seagulls, you know, like that would come in every Thursday, like Ryder, like you know Ohio state, like, so I met all of the coaches, um, you know, during my high school.
Speaker 2:So it started to turn and started to be like okay, like yeah. So I want to. I want to give a little props to Seagulls man, because they sound like they knew what the hell they were doing. You know, having college guys coming in Cause they knew that high school guys were in the room, they wanted to get them the exposure and even being able just to have those contacts. That's amazing, right there to be able to have that a coach in the room that can bring guys in like that and they understand that this room is doing something. So that was kind of where I was.
Speaker 2:I was kind of curious, because you're from a town of like 4 000. Like how does, how does that shit happen? Like how do you know where to? Obviously you can, you can, you know, obviously shop yourself out and be like, hey, coach, I got this, you know, I don't know, it was a dvd at the time, or you can send them. You send them a video, you know and and get things out there.
Speaker 2:But being that you had such a great club that was involved, like that, and being able to have coaches involved like that, that that kind of answers the question for me, because I was like man. Man, how did you get noticed by you know Rutgers? Obviously, you were a finalist at the state tournament, took fifth year before, but at the same time, though, too, it's just the think of the talent pool that comes out of that, just that area, jersey, pennsylvania, and stuff like that to just be able to make that spark that's. That's another great story in itself. So, as you're, as you're going through, and you're kind of getting into your junior year, were you getting contacted uh, into your junior year, by colleges? By that time, even with because you've been going around the country and not just competing in high school but doing other things were you getting contacted by your junior year, by colleges?
Speaker 3:um, not necessarily. I had, like I had had prior relationships with Rutgers because of my brother competing and stuff, but not not so much Princeton. I remember Joe Dubuque is the head coach now for for Princeton but I remember him being in the room and I was like yo, I want to wrestle, you Like let's go. Like yo, I want to wrestle, you Like let's go. And you know, I hit him with an inside trip and took him down and he was like yo, come here. And he took me to the side of the mat and was like you want to wrestle at college, you want to wrestle division one? I was like, yeah, he's like all right, what's your grades like? And I was like they're pretty average. And he's like, all right, let's check it out.
Speaker 3:Cause he was like that was another you know college that came in and wanted you know to to recruit me but like, yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't a crazy amount of colleges and, like I said, I really didn't see crazy success until like my senior year, yep.
Speaker 2:Yep, and we're going to roll into that, that's for sure. We're going to be talking about that because knowing again just the mindset that where that change came, you know things happen a little bit later. Whether you peak your senior year or peak your freshman year in college, you know it's a everyone's different, everyone's made different, everyone develops differently. But as your senior year came around, did you? Was there a noticeable change like where was the biggest change in weight that you had as a, as a wrestler? Did that come like eighth grade to freshman year? When did what? Did a big weight change happen for you?
Speaker 3:what do you mean? Weight change?
Speaker 2:so, like as you're coming in, let's say you're an 80 pound for you know, eighth grader. Where did you start out then? Freshman year were 135 pounds. Like how did? How did your ascend up to the weight class you're at? Was it just kind of gradual?
Speaker 3:you didn't have any big leaps yeah, no, I was pretty gradual, I did. Uh, it was 112. Oh wait, I don't even know if I was 120, 126, 132, 138. That's how my college season went okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So then, as you're, as you're working through your senior year, obviously you're getting more contacts where. What was your mind frame as far as where you like liam right now is, there's a lot of colleges like you. Obviously, as a kid growing up, he had one favorite college or whatever it is. But yeah, as you're becoming more of a man, what are your thoughts in your head of, like, uh, I want to go to california and wrestle, you know did? Did you have thoughts of like other places, just to kind of spread your wings a little more? What were your thoughts as a senior and you're, and you're starting to kind of go through the, the deeper process of recruiting?
Speaker 3:yeah, so I really only have my eyes set on Rutgers or Princeton or somewhere along the Northeast Strip. If you want me to be honest with you, rutgers was really. I knew I wanted to go, like Russell, with my brother, and I knew it was an upcoming program and that's what I wanted.
Speaker 2:It's not a bad it. It's not a bad it at all. I mean, that's a good school. You know, there's nothing, anthony Ashnell. Uh, we'll talk about Nick.
Speaker 3:Siriano. Actually, they were coming in, like you know, as I was well, ashnell came in as I was ready to go.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:So, like you know what was it? Junior year, senior year, senior Um, basically, what happened was is I started going to like NHS CAs and flow wrestling. Oh yeah yeah, they had a countrywide tournament and they were back to back weeks. So I was like, oh my God, like what do I do? So my dad was like like, uh, let's do both. And I was like, okay, so I ended up going to nhsca's and I lost like my second match in and then wrestled all the way back to fifth and then I uh, that was like exciting for me.
Speaker 2:I'm like oh yeah, hell yeah oh my god, like that's crazy.
Speaker 3:And then uh flew right from that tournament to flow wrestling. Yep.
Speaker 3:And I lost an early round, wrestled all the way back to fifth again. Um, so that was like you know, like that's really what like brought in my reach is like for a college athlete like get out there, compete. Like don't even care if you lose, like that's. The scary part, obviously, is I didn't want to go to these nationwide tournaments and go and lose, like that's not the case, right, but at the same time, it's like nothing is ever going to happen if you don't go out and compete. Like lose now, like lose as a young kid. Like go and just lose and risk it because, like man, you got all the time in the world and if you're not going after something, you're not risking something like you're, you're just never going to go and like achieve something you know greater in your life.
Speaker 2:And that goes for like anything in life, I feel yeah yeah, I think it was a john, did julius just put something out he had. He was at a, he was at a camp and talking about how to kids, about embrace the loss, embrace the, the, the, I guess, the agony of it because it's it's all worth it right now and it's hard to tell a kid that right, it's hard to, it's hard to tell any kid that even even as a high schooler coming up and you're trying to get to some place, that you just didn't get to hard to say that and hard for them to get to realize it. And then now you know, and liam is starting to realize that at 16 and 17 and as you grow and you develop as a person and you're in, you're inviting that grind after a while, you're bringing it into your, into your world. Did you? Did you find any type of um struggles, which I'm sure just about everybody does?
Speaker 2:But going from that high school into college, um, I guess the the real question is what was the balance like for you between education and wrestling? How, how were you able to do that? So did you ever struggle school-wise when you left for? When you left for tournaments in high school and you know, obviously it's not easy. Liam left for estonia for two weeks. That kind of screwed him up grade-wise. It wasn't fun. But then transitioning into college, was your high school experience easier, education-wise, than it was then going into college? Obviously college is harder, but some guys are smart. I mean some. I mean some guys can carry that well, you know. And you're going to Rutgers, which is not a dumb school. So how was that? How was that balance for you between education and wrestling? Did one obviously take a little more of a of a precedence for you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a hundred percent, wrestling took a precedence. Athletics in general took a precedence in my life. And know I, I don't know, like school, to be honest with you, like I did enough to get by in high school, like I just like b's, c's, maybe one a and jim or something like that, but like you know, it wasn't I didn't like have too crazy of a focus on it. Um, and you know, maybe that's why I ended up not going to princeton. Who knows, maybe, maybe, maybe it was a good thing. But, um, yeah, like wrestling definitely took a precedence and I think it maybe worked out for me just in the sense that I ended up getting pretty much like a full ride through athletics.
Speaker 3:So it kind of worked out yeah, you know what I mean um yeah, it was just like, you know, going after school getting what I had to get done and and and doing the thing, and, you know, making sure that you graduate. That that's really what it takes Cause in school it's like even in school I look back at high school nowadays like what you learn, like like it's super important, like I'm not like anti-school, but at the same time, I know exactly where you're going.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like I'm, I'm learning things that aren't necessarily going to apply to my job or apply to these things. And sure, like the disciplines, like you know, after school going and getting your homework done, and like doing all these things like builds discipline and builds all these things. But really it's like man, like tell me what I learned in high school. I don't really know man, like you know. So, like do what you can. Like pass, pass the grades, get what you got done, and you know, focus on what's going to get you as an individual to the next level. Like, is it athlete, is it like a business? Is it you? You know, cause you know, obviously there's a lot of athletes that listen to this. But it's like you know, focus on, like, what your strengths are and double down on those and like figure a way to get through those things, cause I mean, really that's the key, obviously.
Speaker 2:Yeah, big time. And kid, you know, that's just what he is and and we're there's and, like you said, there's. No, it's not that people shouldn't be paying attention to education like that's his, he knows he has to get that even going into college, like that's the end goal, to have something, a piece of paper, to hold on to and be like look, I can do it, guys. That just makes you a little more you, you know, employable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:When you got into college, did you find it was? Because I'm hearing different stories. So some guys will say, well, when I went into college cause I mean, obviously it depends on what your major is and things like that but some guys are saying, man, I was a 4.0 student in high school, but college I was like 3.2, you know that kind of thing, I was just partying. There's a lot of different variables that now you kids are put in front of. Did you find the distractions going into college to be challenging once you got there, to be able to focus on practice school and things like that?
Speaker 3:So it's funny, I actually, you know, I got by in high school and then, when I got to college, I was so afraid to fail oh, yeah, I was so afraid that I wasn't going to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was so afraid to fail that I ended up getting a 4.0 GPA as a freshman and that, like you know, it set the standard. You know what I say. I say a first impression is like the most important thing. It lasts forever, right? So, you know, going into college as an athlete, you know having all these high end coaches looking at me, right, I wanted to go in there and prove to myself, to prove to them, prove to everyone, like how I'm coming in, how I'm setting the tone, right? So I came in, I was so afraid that, like, oh my God, like what if I don't get good grades? Oh, like what if I'm not able to compete or wrestle? Like all those things were going through my mind that I ended up getting a 4.0 GPA my freshman year.
Speaker 3:And then, to be honest with you, it went downhill after that. Like I just did enough to to, you know, get by and get my degree and all that stuff. But like, yeah, and to talk about distractions too, like in college, like there's so many distractions right, there's there's parties, there's there's drinking, there's uh, you know, wrestling in general, like away from school you could call it a distraction because of how much like you have to do, right, um, you have to be wrestling, you have to be training, you have to be doing all these things, right. So it's like, um, yeah, I would say it's probably harder right there, and then this education is harder.
Speaker 2:All that's harder, yeah, but it depends on how you want to come in, and, yeah, it's a mindset thing, right you? What you're going to apply, your apply yourself to and what you aren't going to apply yourself to, I think. I think there's a lot that can get lost in into what a kid's expectations of what college should be, and then they get there and get a little surprised, and I mean, we've seen guys that struggle, you know. We've seen guys that had a hard time just to be able to make that transition, which, I mean, it is what it is. At the same point, though, too, when, when you got into college and and you started wrestling for Rutgers, I mean, was what that? Here's, the here's, the question is, when you got there Olympic teams, world teams was that ever on your brain, or was NCAAs what you were thinking about?
Speaker 3:For sure it was on my mind. I was a very good freestyle wrestler. I loved throws, I loved exposure.
Speaker 2:You do love throws? Yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Love all the weird stuff, Right. So I got in like I was. I was one of the few that were very high on freestyle, on competitive like trying to compete um in the off tournaments, and that's actually one of the, you know, like I had a lot of success. I beat like Kevin Jack he was NCAA finalist beat Ashnell. I ended up upsetting him. My freshman year of it was like redshirt freshman year. Into the summer season. I ended up, you know, taking him out at a tournament and like that was like okay, that was big. That was like I just took out an all-american, like like you know what I mean, like that was a big deal. So, yeah, freestyle was huge for me. I always wanted to like try and compete on the world level, the senior level, all that stuff. So I was heavy into the freestyle tournaments in college okay, I just a question on it where what was?
Speaker 2:probably? Because I looked through I didn't see a whole lot. They didn't list a lot of freestyle, but I didn't see a ton of freestyle listed with you what were some of the bigger? What were some of the bigger tournaments that you went to in college for freestyle? Us Opens, things like that?
Speaker 3:yeah, it was really just was the US Open, it was, um, it was that tournament, uh, for the qualifier to.
Speaker 2:To try, if you want it, you would oh, yeah, yeah, yep, like puts you on top yeah, I would.
Speaker 3:I would. I would try and compete there all the time. It's funny, I'd always get to the semis and then lose. And it was just the pressure right, you put on yourself, you put on it is yourself to win and and all that stuff. So it all plays a factor. Um had some success, but obviously didn't wasn't winning the tournaments and and really competing on that national level like I really wanted to.
Speaker 2:But so you never took. You never took the Greco huh, even with your cause. You, I think you really liked that underhook, don't you?
Speaker 3:Oh the overhook, yeah the overhook.
Speaker 2:The overhook. Yeah, not the underhook. Yeah the overhook. So why Greco? Never really translated for you.
Speaker 3:Well, cause I knew that I always wanted to compete on the freestyle circuit. I just thought that if I doubled down on freestyle then it would pay off. It's weird I never, ever, wrestled like Greco. I've never practiced Greco. I don't even know the rule set to Greco. Oh shit, I mean I know you can't like, that's still cool. I'm amazed you can't touch their leg and you have to only throw an exposure and stuff. I'm pretty coolest when it comes to greco. So I just thought I doubled down on freestyle and and tried to make it happen.
Speaker 2:I wanted to you know, that's what I wanted to do your upper body did include a lot of legs I mean, I'm not gonna lie about that, let you know trips and things like that, or even just a leg lock to get a guy thrown, so it. It was just kind of odd. I was like man, he really likes the upper body stuff. I was so surprised he never really took a greco that much, but there's not a lot of greco guys coming out of jersey anytime soon, if you know what I'm saying. So as as you, as you got into college, you're wrestling your freshman and sophomore year. I mean you did, you were doing some pretty, pretty decent uh, pretty decent your your redshirt freshman year. What was that like for you? That getting that exposure to those guys now and being able to just kind of bang with college guys and being able to really compete, was that, was that red shirt season, detrimental to you?
Speaker 2:detrimental yeah uh. Yeah, bad word was that was that, was that uh season, I guess uh beneficial to you yeah.
Speaker 3:So my red shirt freshman year was was huge, huge. Um, I came in blazing, I came in hot and the reason why I think it was beneficial was because I didn't come in pressured to feel like I had to be the starter. Anthony Ashnault was the one, 41 pounder, um, there was, you know, some studs all up and down the weight, uh, weight class and um, so I didn't really have the pressure to come in and, like you know, try and be the starter. So it really took the pressure off me to come in and learn and be better and just like compete with all the guys that were starters. There was no pressure to me to try and compete, so I came in red hot. I was wrestling national toe to toe. Remember we had like one match where it was like four, three in the whole team like all wowed, like he probably got nervous.
Speaker 3:He was like like oh, you know what I mean some freshman kid coming in and wrestling a you know all-american, you know four to three, like that's a big deal, you know. Um, I remember after the practice, goody, uh, coach goodell was like you see this guy, he's like a dog on a bone, you know what I mean? Just like continually going right. I ended up also in tons of tournaments.
Speaker 3:Uh, my redshirt freshman year had had a lot of matches ended up yeah, ended up placing a couple times and wrestling like some really good guys.
Speaker 2:Um third place at the shorty hitchcock memorial classic yeah got uh, lock haven classic title at 141.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um finished his runner up at the jonathan callos bearcat open. Yeah, yep. And then the East Stroudsburg University Open in your first career tournament. That's pretty decent, man. When you're winning tournaments like that, that's pretty good as a redshirt. I mean you're no sludge. And plus, the other thing too is you're wrestling in your Big Ten. I mean hey, so to be doing that? That was to me. I guess that's another kind of question of confidence. Was that helping you then build on? As you got further in? I mean, you took, what was that third at Big Tens? I mean, dude, you were doing. It seemed like you were just kind of climbing and climbing and just kind of doing the thing that you do. So what were your thoughts as you kind of got deeper into college? Were you thinking about I'm going to try and make a couple of runs after the? You know my college career is done. Or were you like, once college is done, I'm probably just going to, I'm good? When did you kind of find in your head that you weren't going to wrestle anymore?
Speaker 3:That's a that's a big question. I kind of want to maybe like revert back a little bit onto like my experiences in college and like climbing that ladder you were talking about, you know. So it's like, you know, after my freshman year I had, you know, success and all that stuff, but that's after. That's really when I started to struggle. Um, if you look back, uh, my sophomore year and my or my redshirt sophomore and redshirt junior year were, were pretty tough.
Speaker 3:Um, my sophomore year, I found myself in the middle of a weight class. I was 170 something in the off season and Ashnell decided to go 149. It was his last year where he won the NCAA title and I, you know, I had thoughts of going and trying and competing against him. And then I had other thoughts where, oh, maybe I'll just cut down to 141 and just like I'll be bigger, I'll be stronger, I'll go ahead and do it. My brother was 157. So I was caught in this weird weight class, right. So I decided to cut from like 170, 175, maybe down to 141. It started way back into summer into, uh, to summer.
Speaker 3:What happened was after my, my regular freshman year, my real truth, my real freshman year, yeah, I had actually had a good year starting of my freshman year. I I went and competed. I made it to big tens. Um, I lost through big tens and I didn't make it to nationals, but I was competitive against those high level people. Um. So after that is when I started to struggle because I had to go back down to 141 again, I went from.
Speaker 3:So after my 141 college career that's my favorite story I wrestled at big tens, didn't make it to nationals. My mindset was all messed up. I was like dang, I just like competed. I lost my chance to go to nationals. So what I did was is I went on a food bender is what some of these wrestlers would call it. I just went and ate everything possible. I was eating cookies and cream, milkshakes, I was consuming hoagies and pizzas and ice cream and candies all day. I was just like low on life. So I would just play fortnight all day and I would just eat crap and I wasn't getting sun, I wasn't doing anything. And next thing, you know, two weeks later, I hit 180 and my body looked super inflamed, holy shit, super inflamed. I went from 141 to 180. Oh my God. And my body just was in total total shock, and that's when I started to actually have some health problems. I went to the doctor and I like felt like my heart beating pretty hard. I just like I was out of breath. I had headaches.
Speaker 3:I was like just was out of breath, I had headaches, like just like not feeling good, um, so they ended up. I went to go get a physical and they were just like ah, I don't know, I'm going to, I'm going to send you to the, to the, to the hospital, just to make sure everything's good. And I was like what, like freaking out. I was like you, serious, so I was scared to death. Um, you know, I I went to the hospital. They had all these EKGs on my heart and on my chest and everything, and like they were like, oh, like you're good, but like I would definitely start trying to, like you know, live like healthier, like maybe you got to drop weight because my I went from one 41 to one 80, like my blood pressure, everything was probably out of control.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean. So that, uh, it took me about a week until I found out about this whole holistic health thing. I started researching and diving deep into like health, um, and I found out upon like this weird diet called the alkaline vegan diet and overnight I went vegan and I was like total vegan. Total, like not even half and half in my coffee, like that's how vegan I was. I was like I was like you know, meat and milk is bad. All of these you know foods are just terrible. Cause of how bad I felt, I was convinced. I was like okay, this is, all of this is crap. So I went vegan overnight and I stayed, uh, stayed vegan all throughout the summer. That's when I knew I was like dude, I got to get my weight down because I'm going 141 next year again, and all summer I was totally vegan. I actually went raw vegan. There was a point where I was only eating fruit all day until dinner and then I'd have like a raw salad with avocados and nuts and some dressing, but that's it.
Speaker 3:I was competing in training and like I was fully, fully vegan. And I made it to about the fall season right, where I got my weight under control, I found out actually how to lose weight. I was like, wow, I just went from 180 to 141. And I found like the ultimate hack and I swear like that diet and all these little hacks that I found were like some of the things that athletes, all athletes, should know is like all of these things that I started to learn. I started to dive down into like the body and like supplements and holistic health and teas and herbal tinctures and like you know why? Why would fruit weigh so much more but make you lose so much weight? Well, one, it's super high in water contents, so it just cleans out everything in your body and starts to refresh your body. So all of these little things that started to play into my mind. Right, I was like I thought that I was fully on the right path, right? So fall season comes around and I get to.
Speaker 3:You know I'm down to weight. I hit like one 50,. You know, fully vegan and I'm like, oh my God, I have like nine pounds to go. I thought this was going to be easy. Yeah, so I started to struggle. You know I was making weight every week. September, october, I think, like November timeframe was when I started to compete at tournaments, um, and there was someone in my weight class named Pete LaPari. He was a guy that, um, you know, I beat him every single time. I never lost to him. But there was a point where I, like, he was started to compete really hard cause he saw me struggling to make weight, so he was like, oh, like, like they're gonna be a chance for me to start, you know we're gonna edge yeah yeah.
Speaker 3:So I got to the midlands tournament and I got totally, totally destroyed. Dude, like there's a full comparison where my I won the first match. Second match I wrestled michael blockus. Right, he was in college and I was a little bit, I was one year older or whatever. This was back in my career. I ended up wrestling him in the Big Ten bronze medal match to play third in the country. Rewind back to the Midlands sophomore redshirt, sophomore year I got my ass handed to.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you had three wins at the Mid, at the Midlands, or something like that.
Speaker 3:Maybe that year, but I, I lost, I didn't even place and um, I ended up that tournament. That's when I gave him my spot, I was like. I was like, um, not right away.
Speaker 3:I ended up for the first time after over a year. Um, I ate meat, I ate meat and next thing, you know, know, my body goes up to like 158, 160 and I'm like dude, I'm not making 141, like dude, this is, this is done, like this is done. So, um, I ended up basically giving up my spot that year and, uh, packing it in for the year which was man so that's got to be rough.
Speaker 2:So when you we talk about the, you know cause you had your, you had your down right, your, your your food binging on whatever found your way. You're getting a couple things figured out here and there and then, with that, did that, did that feel deflating? No, was that, was that just something where it set you back a little bit? But obviously you have a mindset. You're there at Rutgers, you have a good, good support system. It's not like it was just a I'll give up kind of thing. But like man, what the fuck am I gonna do here? Because, like, this is getting, it's getting out of hand.
Speaker 2:Where did you really find yourself? Just kind of having to kind of buckle up again and get back to that mental mind state of like, hey look, I can do this, because I mean there's no, there's no real lows at the end here for you to me, I mean you're talking about losses and stuff, but again, they all led to something, right, they all, they all got you to something. So how did your, how did you feel like you ended up like when you wrap up your college career? How do you feel about it?
Speaker 3:Wrapping up my college career. I mean it was a perfect story. I mean like being from you know some kid who wasn't a blue chip recruit. You know, I wasn't the most talented, I didn't come in with all the all the wins I I struggled, I had I had some minor successes and I just stayed the course. And then at the very, very, very end of my career, when I had my career on the line um and that's the story that we can get into Um I pulled out the biggest one of my life and then rattled off like six wins in my in my career and like placed third in the country.
Speaker 3:But you know it was funny, like after that sophomore year, yeah, it was deflating and I and I didn't know what was next. I was, like you know, trying to figure it all out and after that year I went from 141 to 157. I bumped up two weight classes and had an average career average. I had a pretty good year. I beat a ranked guy in my first match. I had a pretty decent career at 157. What happened at 157 was I had an average year. I didn't qualify for nationals. So I went into the Big Ten tournament which was at Rutgers that year it and um, you know, I actually defeated, I actually beat and uh, revenged all my losses at the big 10 tournament from that year at 157 these guys were bigger than me, man, I, I was, I was not a true 157 pounder um, and you know, I ended up placing I think it was like uh, fifth um, I think seventh um, I'm not too sure?
Speaker 2:no, I'm looking at it's. There's just a lot of. I'm probably gonna mess it up when I read here, but I think it was something like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was 57, I ended up taking uh seventh at the big ten tournament, which then got me an automatic bid to nationals yes and guess what, how crazy is this? This is the craziest time of my life 157. I spend 20 years of my life trying to make the ncaa tournament right, finally make it out of weight class. You know, like that I probably shouldn't have been at, but I make it to the NCAA tournament. Covid cancels the NCAA tournament three days before I get there.
Speaker 2:Every guy I interviewed, this COVID shit. I tell you what smacks everybody in the face, man. So let's talk about that, because that was so obviously what. How did that hit you? I mean, we had I'm talking to guys that especially doing interviews that they're talking about. You know, teammates are out in the gym crying. You know, like I mean this is you guys work your lives for this stuff and boom, not done. You guys are done, not, not going to wrestle, not going to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, none, I mean COVID, covid, that's what you guys get. So what was, what was the? What was the temperature in the room when that all went down with you guys?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember specifically when it happened. There was a time we were training, we were getting ready to go for the, for the big tens. We were, you know, basically the, the, the bags were out ready to be packed and you know, goody and all the, you know, donnie Pritzoff, all of our coaches were just like you know, yeah, like you know, we're going to train, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to have the NCAA tournament. There was a lot of, you know, political and but we were just locked in, we were training, we were trying to, you know, make it. And remember they all gathered us in like very monotone and Goody was like hey, guys, I just want to inform you that they canceled the NCAA tournament. And like I was just like what? Like how is that even like? How is that even like real?
Speaker 3:I qualified for the thing about that. I spent 18 years of my life training for a goal to try and get to college and make it to nationals. Right, I spent three years just grinding my whole college career trying to make it. Trying to make it didn't get. It didn't get, it was close, didn't get it. And then I make it and the NCAA tournament gets canceled.
Speaker 2:I was like what, yeah, it was such a great lead up to it. I mean, just kind of looking at, you beat Bo Bartlett right. Well, no, that was my 157 year, yeah, yeah. So that wasn't Bo.
Speaker 3:Bartlett. But yeah that was the year prior, 157. Your redshirt senior year. Yeah. Yeah, you beat Bo Bartlett. Yeah, so that wasn't beau bartlett, but yeah, that was. That was the year prior.
Speaker 2:150, your red shirts junior year yeah, yeah, you be beau bart. I mean. So you hit you like you're talking about you had all these wins, like at a weight class. You're talking about that shouldn't really, you know, shouldn't have been there, kind of thing, but like you had. So it's kind of like that's that I, as a person and as an athlete, thinking right now I didn't.
Speaker 3:I've never wrestled beau, yet that was my redshirt. Junior year was 157.
Speaker 2:If you say what the heck is that? So I'm just, I'm literally reading the Rutgers page, I'm reading what they had down for it. Sometimes these guys don't get everything right, so I'm going to stop reading that, anyways, but what up? Yeah, god what a letdown, right? I mean, just like you said, it was a weight class that you weren't at, it was just something it was. It sounded like it was going to be great, and then they gave me a bid.
Speaker 3:I barely made it. I made it to the national tournament and, boop, they cancel it so what do you do after that?
Speaker 2:you guys just, you guys just crazy, no, I did grass, did you so? Were you punching stuff like that kind of?
Speaker 3:crazy. No, this is where the this is where the story got real crazy. So I, you know, was at that point where, you know, covid canceled the ncaa tournament and I was at a turning point. My four-year contract with ruckers was was up and, long story short, I found out that they weren't going to give me a scholarship to come back for my next year. So I was like yo, are you serious?
Speaker 3:like I made it to nationals and you're not going to give me any money to come back yeah I was pissed, I was like and I love ruckers, so like, still to this yeah, yeah, yeah for sure I was like, I was like lost.
Speaker 3:I was like going through all these crazy things, I'm like, do I come back? I'm gonna have to pay like 25 grand to come back for a master's or more. Like this isn't even gonna work, dude, like how am I, what am I going to do in my life? And then, like you know, my parents were like, hey, do you just want to come back to the business? Do you want to? You want to? You know, start working. Like you could just pack it in, like you know, that's it oh good dude.
Speaker 3:Oh my god, oh my god. So I went back home, I started working in the pool company. I started doing construction. I was just doing labor, I was was. You know, I don't love that. So I was like you know, in my mind I was working five months just like grinding and it got to the point where I was like, dude, I don't want to do this anymore, like, and I don't even know what I'm going to do right now with, like college. I got to go figure something out. So what I did? I packed my bags and I flew all around the country and I picked up a new hobby. One of the Rutgers wrestlers who's a little crazy. He picked up this hobby and he introduced me to this community of cliff jumpers. Oh boy, listen, listen, I'm not proud of everything that I did. Do I recommend this to all these different like places where beautiful landscapes, where I started just steadily jumping cliffs, cliff diving, and I started to like, take it competitively, like really competitively. I started to go from 20 feet, 30 feet, 40 feet, 60 feet, 80 feet, 100 feet, 110 feet, like interesting, I went, I went full, like competitive. I was jumping 30 feet higher than Red Bull competitions.
Speaker 3:Not many people know this story just because I don't really talk about it. It's like daredevil adrenaline type guy. I'm not that guy. I've got big things coming in my life and all that stuff At the same time there was something in my mindset that clicked Right and I'll go, I'll go, I'll talk to you about this.
Speaker 3:But so there was a point where it was August and there was a point where I had to make a decision Am I going to go back on my own dollar or am I not? Okay? So I was, you know, playing with my life, whatever. I started jumping, I I set a world record. I jumped off 110 foot cliff with my friend. I backflipped it and I was like this is crazy, like this is insane, like I have the videos, everything, yeah. So I, uh, I was like, wow, that was insane, I'm never doing that again.
Speaker 3:Um, and then a week later, good, he calls me and he goes hey, like, do you want to come back? And I'm like, yeah, I want to come back. And he was like he's like, all right, well, you know, come back on Friday and we'll see what happens. And let alone I was coming, still coming back on my own dollar. He didn't like offer me a scholarship or anything, but he just offered me to come back and train. So I go back on Friday. I knew it was match day and long story short, friday I come in and it was wrestle-offs. Literally, they put me up against my partner to wrestle-off right away. First day back in training, I was cliff jumping, traveling the country, doing this crazy stuff, not even wrestling or training, and they throw me into my wrestle off for one 49 pound wrestle off, um, and I was like that was the year after COVID. That was, that was 2021.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I come in and I win. I win my wrestle off and like and I'll tell you one thing that I got from the cliff, jumping from the mindset. It was like I, I, I like literally had my life on the line and I was like, just like, I saw a bunch of things, I saw people get hurt, I saved this kid's life. I had all these crazy things happen to me and I'm like, dude, I got to go back to wrestling and I got to fully dedicate myself to this. So when I went back I was free of any baggage. I thought that I wasn't ever going to wrestle again. I had all these things going through my mind that, oh, I could lose this sport. So I went back with a free mind, like totally free and clear, went back, won the wrestle off, and that's when I went.
Speaker 3:We had a tri-meet, first one of the year. We started our year in January. Because of COVID, they had a year lapse. First dual meet I have Kanan Storr. He's ranked number six in the country for Michigan. Then I had Griffin Parriot, ranked number four after that, and then my third match was Minnesota, all in one day. Michael Blockus he's ranked number I don't even know 15?.
Speaker 3:Holy cow, yeah. So I go in. I wrestle Kane and Stewart barn burner of a match. I lose by one point. I go to Griffin, so I lose. I go wrestle Griffin Parriott. I lose on a locking hands call.
Speaker 3:Okay to the number eight, whatever his ranking was. So now, 0-2, the guy that I beat for the wrestle office is like staring over the mat like, okay, he's oh and two for the season. Is it my time to come up and be ready? No, that second chance against michael block as top 15 kid in the country. I pull out the huge win. I pull out the fifth, uh the 15 ranking win, which gives me a ranking and then sets me up for the big 10 tournament. Okay, this is where my whole career like changes. Okay, in a day. So I, I'm, I'm seated number 11 at the big 10 tournament. I come in, I lose to my first round, I lose. I get caught in a headlock to Michigan state uh, peyton O'Mania, who was ranked like 12 or 13, and I'm like, okay, like this is really it, like this is really. If I lose this match, I actually have. I, uh, covid, granted us another year of eligibility yes so I could come back for another year.
Speaker 3:In my back of my mind I'm like dude, I just went. Oh, I wanted the big 10 tournament. If I lose again, I'm never coming back. This is it like? This? Is it for me, like I'm done? Yeah, michigan, state of pain, no mania. I dropped to the wrestlebacks lowest point in my career. My coaches aren't really even listen. I love the coaches, but at that point they've put so much dedication and time into you and you're just not performing. They're just like all right, this is it, dude, like you know what I mean. So, long story short, I dropped to the wrestlebacks. The number two seed, max murin, drops to ridge.
Speaker 3:Love it okay okay number two seed drops in the wrestlebacks to an auto to like a one in four kid I remember yeah, like career on the line.
Speaker 3:I go back to my hotel. I'm, I'm just so down, so out. You know, I almost slept through the session, almost slept through the session. I get on the bus, I'm running, I'm running to the venue. Right, I get to the venue and I don't know, I had this weird moment of like gratitude. I was like, wow, I'm just, you know, I'm like this is my last match my college career, literally last match of my, my college career. I have no pressure on the line. This kid's number two, I'm like number 11, like this could be it for me. I had this weird like moment of just like gratitude for the sport. I had no pressure on me, all the pressure that I felt of like needing to win, needing to do this, totally erased, total, total, total and utter freedom. I was like, okay, this is it. Yeah, drop into the Russell backs and I pull out the biggest one in my life against the number two seed, against Iowa and um.
Speaker 2:That's so that that is a uh man, a transformation. You know just the moment of clarity the, the, the, it's not base jumping but the cliff jumping. In, just the, just the, the moment of clarity, the, the, the, it's not base jumping but the cliff jumping, and just the, just the kind of man, what a journey. Just to kind of put yourself through the rank the, the, the ringer, in doing the, the cliff jumping, like that is wow. I don't want to call it reckless, you know, I mean that's. You found something that that called you right and it was something that you felt appropriate to go do and you did. Well, you know, you were it's not like you were, you were, you weren't going without fear. I think when you do things like that, you have to respect the fear but at the same time that you plowed through, you think some of that helped you come through that.
Speaker 3:Oh, my God, you, yes, you, you. You realize what fear really is and you realize how to like overcome the fear and like how to perform within the fear, right, I think that's one of the biggest things is like putting your mind, your body against the limits and seeing what it can do, and like you have to be so locked in to every single millisecond because your life's on the line, right and wrestling. It wasn't like that, your life wasn't on the line, you were just going out and you're doing a sport, right. But that changed, it changed within me. To go ahead and you know, like, become like comfortable within that fear. You know, become like one with the fear, like I think you know, as a mental thing. It's like, you know, one of the biggest things is to look at you.
Speaker 3:I did a lot of mental training, a lot of mindset training. I've hired performance coaches, psychology coaches we had one at the Rutgers wrestling team every single week, right. One of the biggest things that I learned was how to like actually look at your mind as like a highway. So you're driving on a highway, right, there's so many turns that your body, your mind, can veer off and think fear, think this, think that right. Oh, weird thoughts come in the mind. Oh, like you know, you're not worthy. Oh, no-transcript, trusting the path and you did.
Speaker 2:You followed a path, the man you made it your way out. You know that that was. That was a big win, as much as as much. So I mean, I grew up as an iowa fan, coming up as like five years old, so that's a big win, you know that's that's. That's a big win. No, no matter what I think, even if he's not ranked, that's a big win for a guy right Like but talk about, talk about mindset.
Speaker 3:You win one of those matches, you win one. I won that match, right? Yes? Then I go and win five straight against all the top rank kids in the country. So I talk about mindset, right, what? What is going through? I think it's fascinating what went through someone's mind to go from. You know what went through my mind, from going from guy who cannot beat the top rank guys to beating all of the top rank guys in one day.
Speaker 2:Lipping that switch, yep.
Speaker 3:It's getting out of. It's getting out of fear, it's getting out of and letting go of all of the negative pressures that you're putting on yourself. You can totally 100 percent ruin your, ruin your success in your life, in your sport and whatever. By just letting all of these negative thoughts control your mindset, control all of these, these things. It can veer you off the path. So quickly is what I learned yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:and again, it was just kind of watching some of those matches from the last, that last season and and and seeing just the you got the first takedown against Bo Bartlett. I remember watching that and I didn't remember the match because I know I watched a lot of it.
Speaker 3:Before you get to there, because I want to get to there. Guess what happened? Yeah, yeah. So I went through the Big Ten tournament. I placed third in the country and I went on to the Nationals. I didn't even compete the way I wanted to. However, guess what? Third at the Big Ten got me a full ride for my master's degree. Goody. Guess what he did? Goody paid. He paid for my year prior that I went on my own dollar and then paid for the master's degree.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice. That's commitment to an athlete right there.
Speaker 1:That's showing, hey, we know you can do it. Yeah, stay an athlete right there, that's uh showing a we know you can do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, stay the course.
Speaker 2:So that pushed me to my senior year season, when I went 49 and more success, that's and watching that just kind of how you wrestled and I didn't try to compare you to like past, you know seasons or anything like that but just watching you wrestle those guys, just watching the confidence level, you know, just uh, just watching how you approached I like a takedown, cause you're, I mean it's, it's hard getting, you're in the big tens, right, you're in the division one wrestling, getting in and a takedown is great. Are you going to finish it? And you did like you were just sneaky finishes too Like, but it didn't look like you were thinking about it. It all seemed like a natural flow, right, and that's kind of where everybody would like to get to before they get to a certain you know, a certain age or whatever. But you had a really natural flow about your wrestling. And again that overhook and coming into you know upper body stuff and being able to utilize it and the confidence that we, that I saw, justin, even some of the losses that you had, the confidence was still there. I I mean you were bummed and don't get me wrong, every guy gets bummed but then watching the week after, it was almost like it just didn't, it didn't matter, you were there, you were there, you're in the moment, not in the season. You're in the moment, not in the season. I kind of like to point that out to liam. Two more be in the moment, don't worry about this. Long term right now is what matters.
Speaker 2:That's hard to realize, and just watching you as you grew through that and kind of got to the process of of the no fear and and just kind of letting go in the moments of clarity, I think a lot of people can take away from that that, just because your path isn't necessarily a set one, you can make your path. You can make it how you want it and champion your own way without having to bend to what everybody else because, like you said, you were a seagull man. You know you weren't jumping all over, going and doing everything else and and you stayed that course and I think that laid the foundation for a lot of what you're we're talking about now, just even after the. The cliff diving, cliff diving, dude, holy shit, man. That's, that's impressive. That's impressive.
Speaker 2:So once you get done with college, what's, uh, what were your goals? When you see your the end of the wrestling thing? What? What was your brain? Was it? Did you maybe think I want to start a club, or maybe I'll do this. What were your thoughts when you're kind of coming to the end?
Speaker 3:I think this is a topic of conversation that's not talked about enough, because I think it's the hardest thing in the world for someone to go dedicate their life to something and then one day it just fully over, it doesn't even matter, like it's just. You know, I remember, you know, at the NCAAs I didn't compete the way I wanted to and I just I was like lost. And, to be honest with you, in one of the biggest ruts of my life, I think you know they say they say an athlete dies twice, and I think that's true. I I died after my wrestling college athletics.
Speaker 3:You know, it was you're, you're the star of the show. You're competing in thousands of, in front of thousands of people. You have one set, clear, definite goal of you know becoming an all American, becoming a national champ. Everything is set in stone. You know what you're working towards, right and and when that's over, like what happens? Well, you need to reset your goal and like continue into something else and like that takes time. Like how can you expect someone to just like do something their whole entire life and then have a set goal afterwards? Man, I was, I was, I was broken and it took me. Uh, you know I was in. I was in a hole for over a year. I would say yeah.
Speaker 2:Do you just kind of take a break?
Speaker 3:You're just doing your own thing. What's that? Yeah, go ahead, you can go.
Speaker 2:Did you go into food? Do we back into food again? Are you doing that?
Speaker 3:So, honestly, after that sophomore year and everything, like I stayed on the whole food and holistic thing the whole way through, I'm still doing today. But but yeah, like going back to, you know, getting out of college like it was, you know, I went straight into business. I would start to work for a family company and I just, you know, did that and got into sales and I got actually, I'm sorry I got my real estate license. You know, I graduated, I wrestled NCAA tournament and then went straight into real estate school, got my real estate license, just trying to figure out what I wanted to do, man, and you know, I sold a couple homes. I sold like four or five homes right out of college and I started selling some pools too. I sold some residential pools as well. Man, I tell you that that was like the minor successes.
Speaker 3:But all throughout that it was like trying to figure out what I want to do, man, freaking out just like dude, like I'm not in the right path, I'm not doing this right thing. And one thing I will say is like looking back on wrestling, it's like, man, there were so many times where I thought that I wasn't on the right path, like I had all this darkness, I was like, you know, like, am I doing the right thing and is all this commitment to the sport worth it in the end? Like man, is it going to pan out for me? You know, there's so many times where I thought in my career that it wasn't going to pan out Right and at the very end, a little sliver, a little sliver of my career turned into my whole career being so worth it, right, and that's.
Speaker 3:That's a. That's a thing in business that I can. I can take the tactics that I learned from wrestling, the vision that I turned from wrestling, and apply it to business Right, like I can be, like, oh, like I'm in business, I feel lost, I feel like I'm not in the right path, like I feel like I'm just like not doing the right thing. Well, I felt that in wrestling too, but I was doing the right thing and that's and that's the key. It's like, in those times where you don't have faith, you don't feel like you're doing the right thing, is the times where you're on the right path, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I agree, I agree. Well, I mean, your, your journey has been it's not done. Obviously you're doing some great stuff you're. You're getting your own thing going and getting your feet wet, and that you know in the, in the I don't even want to say in the real world you know it's with the, the connections that you've made in wrestling will always carry through, I mean, and obviously you had great coaches, you had great support system, your parents are great, they have a business, you know. So it seems like you're gonna try and find your own way no matter what, but at least you have those foundations now with the family and family, business and school and just the connections you've made. Do you see yourself maybe trying to possibly take up a coaching position at some point at all, ever?
Speaker 3:So I was the assistant coach at Clearview for a year. I competed. I was, like you know, coaching them, and then, actually not too long ago, I tried to make the Olympic circuit. I competed at the Olympic trials, the last chance, okay, you know I won and then lost and, you know, didn't make it. I didn't make it really.
Speaker 3:But, at the end of the day, I kind of made a decision as of recently to move out of my little small hometown and I made a really great connection and this is why I'm here in the studio right now. I use my video skills and branding skills to take up an opportunity with another really, really successful high-level entrepreneur who built a really successful software company, a hundred million dollar company and he was a wrestler for Boise State, nice, nice, oh yeah. So, man, like I said, use anything you can right, like as an athlete if you're graduating out of college, or anything right. Um, and I would give every single person, especially nowadays in the social media world, if you're an athlete, use your personal brand to your, to your advantage. Start posting your journey as a wrestler, regardless if you're a top athlete or not. This is what I'm going to say.
Speaker 3:I started my brand as a guy who was struggling, athlete or not. This is what I'm going to say. I started my brand as a guy who was struggling. I made my first real film when I was before I had success at the Big Ten tournament before I did that stuff. So start documenting your journey, start documenting your failures and everything and make it visible for everyone on the internet, right? Because people will start to follow you, people will start to tune in and, over time, it will build connections. It'll build, you know, a whole audience for you to actually start to build connections with, and that's what I did. You know, this personal brand has now led me to connect with multiple, multiple nine figure entrepreneurs.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not one of them, I'm not that guy, but I'm glad you're here.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Glad you're here. That's that's like I said it's. It's the yeah, yeah, glad you're here. That's that's like I said it's. It's that we may be in a small community but that now, talking about technology and social media, that reaches it's huge. It's huge. So it's impressive to see and seeing some of the videos that you had put out. Those are awesome. So you had you already had a vision kind of coming up and what you're doing and now being able to apply that and putting it. It's something it seems like it's a passion you have. Right, it's not just a. I was just trying. I was putting some videos together, slop some stuff together. It's a passion you have and that's awesome and that and, yes, that is going to follow through, it's going to. I would say that wrestlers are probably the most employable people on the planet, you know, right, right next to any other olympic person that's been, you know, to the o, things like that. But wrestlers just have a work ethic.
Speaker 3:If you're a wrestler, you have something right, you have a work ethic, you have drive, you have something that's going to last you forever If you can get through the sport of wrestling.
Speaker 3:Like Dan Gable said, everything else in life is easy and, to be honest with you, there is a coercion to that quote because even out of college, even out of into business world now I'll tell you what I am still struggling I'm struggling to find what I want to do with the rest of my life. I'm struggling to find out what my passion is and really what's going to drive me and what's going to make me have that energy for life, like wrestling did. It's actually harder as someone who's competed and dedicated yourself to something, because you've got to pick up and leave, you've got to give up something, you've got to look away and look past and you've got to look in the rearview mirror, which is sometimes one of the hardest things in the world. But, like I said, if you're a wrestler, if you're an athlete, if you're Division I, if you're a high performer, you have something.
Speaker 2:You're correct. You're correct, you're highly correct. So what we're going to, we've been going for about an hour and a half. What I want to do, I always do this with everybody. Are there any shout outs you want to give at the end here? I don't care who, I give me a company. I'm not, I'm, I'm free man. You put it out there.
Speaker 3:Right now, like I'd say, like you know, as I'm kind of, you know, starting my next venture, right, like you know, I have some. I have some plans of, you know, keeping athletics in my life, regardless you know whether it's competing in the senior level again, probably not. You know, probably. You know all this promotional boxing stuff. You know, jake Paul, you want to run it, bro, let's do it now. But, seriously, all that stuff is super interesting entertainer. You know someone who's just continually, you know someone, building a brand. Like that is. You know something that I'm shooting for and you know I, at the same time, can look back on my you know myself who was, you know 10 years beforehand, and I feel like I could give so much value to the person. On the other end, whether you're an athlete, whether you're, you know someone trying to build a brand, whether you're someone who's just trying to be a high performer in life, you know whether it's. You know the nutrition, the brand building, the technical video editing stuff, the all the stuff that I'm learning from all these high level entrepreneurs, people who are building huge, huge, massive companies. Right, you know, I want to, I want to bring all this knowledge, all this stuff that I'm learning and and and all of this stuff that I've learned throughout my career, and I want to bundle, bundle it up into, you know, a training to give back to people who you know have or going through the same struggles that I've gone through, and give it to them as a blueprint right, the, the champion blueprint, right. So that's a little that's an inside look on what I'm looking to build. Long-term is the champion blueprint something that I have in the works right now and you know that's kind of what's going on back here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, nothing really set in stone but, like I said, I want to. I want to develop people. I want to develop athletes and entrepreneurs and business owners and people who are just trying to perform at a high level. You know, people who are trying to get nutrition right, who are trying to get their mindset right, you know, and you know business and branding, all that stuff. I want to, you know, teach people and just give back, and you know that's a passion project for me.
Speaker 3:Like, long term, you know, right now I'm just in the midst of, you know, trying to get my feet on the ground as someone who is an athlete to someone trying to get into the business world. You know it's tough, it's not easy and I still have, you know, many the right move every single day. But, like I said, this is the path of the champion, someone who can take the negatives in their life and, like I said, just get back on that mental highway, get on that path of just continual personal development and just continually to try and better themselves. Um, but, yeah, shout out to you know, uh, shout out to Seagulls wrestling club, who you know grew me and uh, you know, into the wrestler I am. Shout out to my parents, my dad, my mom, uh, people who've been along there for the journey, shout out to Rutgers wrestling.
Speaker 3:Um, like I said, they gave me an opportunity to, uh, you know, showcase my skills. You know, most people you know who are not blue chip recruits can't get the chance to wrestle in front of huge crowds. Rutgers, in New Jersey, gave that to me, gave me a fire under my belt, it gave me an audience, it gave me a platform to showcase all the skills and the mindset and everything that I learned, and I would have not been able to do it without Rutgers. I wouldn't have been able to have that platform without them and, man, they were just the best thing to happen in my life. Have that platform without them and, man, they were just the best thing to happen in my life and I'm so happy that I stayed loyal throughout those years because, man, they they are. They gave me, you know, some of the best times in my life.
Speaker 2:True Jersey kid. True Jersey kid man.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 2:That's right. So what? What's the message you got for the kids? A lot of kids watch us. What do you the things you want to pass out to the kids as far as some advice here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the biggest thing for the younger, the athletes or someone who, the younger people who just want to perform high in life, right, I think the biggest thing that you're going to have to figure out is right here. Now there's humans, right, all of us are given a body, all of us are given skills, all of us are given, you know, talents and all these things, right, but you know, and actually, people, you know these, you know young or young, you know athlete or you know, if you're younger, in general, you're going to be, you're going to look around and there's going to be people that go through the same program as you, people who you know have similar support systems as you, but there's going to be very few people who actually go and succeed and like, actually become high performers in life. And the answer is going to be right here, because there's so many distractions in this world. Right, there's people that have so talents or they're, you know, gorgeous people. They have athletics out the you know crazy athletics. They have talents, right, but half of them, I'd say 80% of people, never get to the point where they actually can, you know, step into their calling.
Speaker 3:Is a young athlete? Right, you have, you know, chasing girls chasing, you know bar scenes, you know drinking, doing all these different distractions. Right Like lock in right now, because life and these opportunities that you're going to get are going to fly by like that you can think, oh, I have college four years, I've you know all these. All this time you don't right Like it's going to come down to the wire for a lot of people to actually go and achieve something. So make sure that you have your mindset right. Take away the distractions. If you're spending seven hours a day on your phone, dude, get rid of it. Like, unless it's like personal development, youtube content on like how to grow your mindset, how to like become a better athlete, you know workouts to do, like all these things like dive in and lean into people like who have the apple on the tree that you want. Pick a pick, a mentor, pick someone that has something that you want and latch onto them. Continue to like produce their content, like listen to their content and like consume yourself with positive, positive thinking and the people around you. I'm going to say one more thing your life is the culmination of the five people you spend the most time with. So if your friend group and all the people around you are spending time, wasting their time just playing video games, like going out, just like doing things that are not going to benefit a long-term goal.
Speaker 3:Dude, you got to separate yourself and you got to just like, think of yourself as something bigger. Because, like because, like I said, like another thing is, nobody in this world is going to think of you higher than yourself. If you think of yourself highly, if you think that you can achieve big dreams, if you think that you can chase these big goals and aspirations, you'll be able to do it. People around you will start to think that you could actually do it too. You will, you'll, you'll be able to do it. People around you will start to think that you could actually do it too.
Speaker 3:But if you can't think it, if you can't see it or, you know, believe it yourself, it's never going to happen. It's not going to be up to your coaches, it's not going to be up to your parents to succeed. It's not going to be up to them. Right, In the end, it's going to be you putting in the hours, putting in the time and actually cultivating that self-belief in your mind that you could actually achieve these dreams. Those are the biggest things that I got to say to a young athlete is now is the time to just take away the distractions, put away all the nonsense stuff this generation is. It's harder now. You guys are born in like literally the time with most, like the most distractions. You guys have the phone. You got all these just like negative influences in your life right. It's time to actually put it down and and try and find a way out and and find the good people in your life that are going to lead you to the, to the goal that you want.
Speaker 2:Well said, well said. So it's been a great conversation. I want to talk to you for a minute once we're done I mean, honestly there's more to talk about we're definitely going to have you back on. You know we always want to touch back in with, see what guys are doing and see what kind of progress they got going on and see the new things they got going on. It's all part of the journey, it's all part of the story.
Speaker 2:So, take note, kids, build your mental brand. You know, once you, once you believe in yourself and believe in what you can, man, you can, you can do anything. And that's kind of what we're starting to see with a lot of these guys, with the bo, bassets and the and all the other guys are starting to come up. I mean, look at the branding. I mean it's, it's everywhere. You can't avoid it. So put yourself out there, guys, but put yourself out there in a positive way. Put yourself out there in a way that's going to show people that you're trying to do good things, that you're trying to move in the right direction or forward direction. So social media can be a tricky place. Social media can be a dirty place. Social media can also bring you. I mean, look at Jake Paul bring you, bring you a lot of money, man.
Speaker 3:And if you do it the right way, if you guys, if you guys need help on anything, just reach out to me through DMS. Like literally I'll answer, like I'll help you guys, like I'll help you create videos and branding and just like all these things like help help you get recruited, like all these little things I'd love to help, um, help my younger self, you know.
Speaker 2:So he's, he's. He's everywhere. He's on Instagram, he's on Twitter, you're on Facebook, right, you're on Facebook. So he's. He's here to help um check out this episode for sure. You know, down the line, take some notes. If you got questions for anything, you said, reach out to him. But, uh, we're gonna wrap it up. I'm gonna talk to you for a minute once we're done here, but it's been a great episode of the vision quest podcast with mike van brill. Man, it's been awesome. I appreciate it. So we're gonna hit that final music and we're going to cut everybody out. Peace, let's go.
