The Vision Quest Podcast
A podcast about life, sports, and life in sports! Enjoy!
The Vision Quest Podcast
#98 Mike Dixon's Story: From Athletic Beginnings to Coaching Success
How does a lackluster baseball player turn into a dedicated wrestling coach? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Mike Dixon, the Associate Head Coach of the University of Indiana, as he shares his journey from the Indiana fields of soccer and baseball to the wrestling mats that defined his career. Mike starts by recounting his early experiences in sports, from the thrill of riding his bike to practice to the critical life lessons taught by his father, especially the importance of commitment and resilience.
Transitioning into his high school years, Mike reflects on the evolution of wrestling and the increasing importance of mental toughness in today's athletes. We delve into the pressures of social media, and how they contrast with the more straightforward challenges faced by past generations. Mike offers personal anecdotes from his Indiana upbringing, including the pivotal moment he realized the significance of wrestling legends like Dan Gable, shaping his coaching philosophy and approach to nurturing young talent.
The episode concludes with a deep dive into Mike's impactful work with Beat the Street Chicago and the critical role of hardworking coaches. Listen as Mike narrates his unexpected journey into college wrestling, the decision-making process that led him to Indiana University, and his transition from athlete to coach. From battling injuries and coaching high school teams to leading a youth organization during a pandemic, Mike's story is a powerful testament to passion, leadership, and dedication. Don't miss this heartfelt tribute to the unseen efforts of coaches who shape the future of young athletes.
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Thank you, thank you live.
Speaker 2:There we are. We are joined here on another episode of the vision quest podcast. Uh, just a late night, one kind of traffic got stuck, kind of got talking a little bit and um want to want to kind of uh, kind of get a feel for who you were. But we're able to finally get in-house. Uh, assistant, um, is it associate head coach? What's the title? Technically it's associate head coach. Associate head coach.
Speaker 2:Okay, so, associate head coach of the University of Indiana, mike Dixon. Thanks for having me. I appreciate you being here, man, especially at this time. It's crazy. So thank you very much. In-house, I don't get to get guys in that often, except for the local guys. So this is, I'm excited for this one right here. So, yeah, mike dixon, coach is at the university of indiana. Um, I, I know that right now is probably a busy time of season for you, right, gonna extremely getting around, getting around, um, so we want to make this uh, you know it is is informative as possible, but uh, I don't want to keep you up all night. So, with that being said, I want to make this uh, you know it is is informative as possible, but uh, I don't want to keep you up all night. So, with that being said, I want to start from the beginning. Where, where, where are you? Where are you from originally?
Speaker 3:I'm from, uh, indiana. I grew up in indiana. You did okay. I was born in a suburb outside of chicago okay, okay, okay, all right, where like?
Speaker 2:so what we talked about here typically is where it's sport started, for he doesn't have to necessarily be wrestling right sport. So what was the first sport you remember? Oh?
Speaker 3:gosh. Uh, I think everybody gets thrown in soccer right right probably soccer uh okay, I wasn't. I don't think I was very good at sports when I was little. No soccer, uh well, soccer, you just run around, you know so okay, we'll talk about that later I bet when you're five yes, correct the bumblebee effect.
Speaker 2:Yeah around honey, that's right.
Speaker 3:Yes, okay, uh, I'd probably say, baseball is actually my favorite sport was that like a love?
Speaker 2:when you first, when you started playing, was it like oh man, I love this so I wasn't good at baseball.
Speaker 3:But yeah, growing up um in in chicago back in the day the cubs were always on wgn yep. So correct school lets out, there's always a cups game on always. So that's kind of what I did and he played outside. So that that's kind of why I guess you could say I fell in love with baseball is because to me it was just always on nice okay.
Speaker 2:So with it, with being in Indiana, obviously we know it's kind of a basketball state, but either way, with with baseball, you had obviously someone was there to help you get you to practice. What was what was the? What was the dynamic like with, with the parents, where was it? Because I, I know you mentioned obviously that your, your dad, knew of sports, he, he knew the baseball, things like that. But what was? Was he the? Was he the ride? Was he the like the? Hey, I'm going to come and watch you and I want to, I want to learn as much as possible. Or were they just kind of off in the back? And this is your thing we trust. We trust what you're doing with, who you're doing that with.
Speaker 3:No, they were more of just the trust and make sure you're at um where you're supposed to be okay um, and I had a little little league right down the street so I was close enough where a lot of times I could just ride my bike to practice. Oh, that's tough, so okay, nice. A lot of times it was on me to get to practice. The the only real memory I have is one time in practice. Uh, like I said, I wasn't very good at baseball, I just liked it. A fly ball hits me in the nose and you're little. I start crying. I remember going home and then my dad comes home and kind of looks at me strange because whatever time he came home, I wasn't supposed to be at home. I was supposed to be at practice and you know I was like. You know I got hit in the nose and blah, blah, blah, and he looks at me, grabs me, puts me back in the car go back to practice.
Speaker 2:Oh man, all right, practice. Oh man, all right, that's a lesson supposed to be a practice. Yeah, okay, so did that? Was? I mean, did that leave an impression? And I on you? Then, as far as, like you know, further on down the road, like hey, like this is, this is important, I should be here, no matter what yeah, just hey.
Speaker 3:It doesn't matter what happens, you're supposed to be where you're supposed to be.
Speaker 2:So yeah, a thousand percent sets a, sets a precedent for you. So, as you're, you know, kind of, we, we're gonna, we're gonna kind of go all the way through and and figure out exactly what kind of drove you and got you to wrestling. So yeah, baseball, soccer we talked about that a little bit. Now, what grade school, what was that? Baseball and soccer?
Speaker 3:you hadn't touched wrestling yet in grade school no, um, uh, middle school, it's probably a challenge for everybody. Yeah, um, I my, my mom had never really wanted me to play football, okay, um, so I went out for seventh grade wasn't very good, yeah. Went out again for eighth grade still wasn't very good. Yeah. Went out again for eighth grade Still wasn't very good, okay, and I think I had tried that. This was the last year I tried baseball. Yeah, wasn't very good at that. The rule of thumb in my house was you have to be involved with something. Okay, we don't care what you're, you're gonna do something in addition to school.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, my whole times have changed yeah, it's not a lot of that around you know there's not a lot of you need to be doing something. That was with liam. I mean, I think we had the same thought. I mean I was in sports but we didn't know he was gonna be wrestling until when we found out that he'd like to punch kids in preschool and my wife suggested karate and I was like he doesn't have patience for that, he can't sit still that long.
Speaker 2:And we found wrestling. So what? How was it that? Was it just a? Your dad found a flyer we hear that story a lot and said hey, or had a buddy no it um.
Speaker 3:So I had a paper out because I sucked at sports in middle school. Okay, ended up having paper out and paper out in a lawn mowing business, um, and then, uh, freshman year, still trying football, yeah, and I think I think at this point I was trying to be like a running back or something and they were like, yeah, this, this isn't working. So they just stuck me on on line and yeah, like okay, whatever but when you get to high school, you know, they start to try and develop you to.
Speaker 3:You know there's freshmen, there was jv and varsity and um, so after my freshman year I think I just tried to lift and stuff. And then sophomore year, I start to get a little bit more playing time because I had lifted on the JV. So then after that I'm like, okay, well, this lifting thing it seems to be helping me. I'm playing, I'll just in the offseason. That's what football players do in the offseason. That's tell me what football players do.
Speaker 3:Um, then I actually had a football coach. Uh, coach carrico was his name, okay, says he had kind of a deep, raspy voice. He was like, if you want to be good at football, you need to go wrestle. Okay, that's kind of how I ended up in the wrestling room. Wow, and I mean, just like any kid, yeah, you're just getting whipped, you know, yeah, um, but I could see I was getting better. Okay, in, in, in, uh, practice, um, and through competitions, you know, results started to happen. Yeah, I mean, um, my, my, um. The first memory I have of me being on varsity, this is during sophomore year the guy that was above the weight class, somebody gotten hurt, okay, so they moved me up. They said here, here you go. Yeah, we need you to step in, yeah, and a uh, a guy was eating a subway sandwich. This I remember vividly, eating a subway sandwich. I go out there, I get pinned in like 10 seconds, sits back down, unwraps the subway sandwich and eats it and I was like man, this is embarrassing. So embarrassing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so um, but after, after the regular season's over, the coach came in and like, okay, you know, you know varsity's trained for postseason and the freshman JV is like, okay, you know yeah you guys, thanks for the season and we'll see you. Yeah, by this time I don't know what it was probably with every other wrestler you kind of get hooked and you're like, I actually kind of like this. So you're, uh, I asked the coach. I said can I stay?
Speaker 1:like, do I have to?
Speaker 3:go, yeah, yeah, and he kind of was like I don't think anybody ever asked that before. You know, he's like sure, if you want, yeah. So, um, I just continued to practice, continue to get better, and you know, uh, I was very fortunate, um, and what helped me a lot is there were two guys the class above me. They were both at the time. They were, I think, one and two in the state. They were both highly ranked in the state of indiana.
Speaker 3:They both end up wrestling yeah uh, division one okay, and those ended up being a lot of times, uh, my workout partners and stuff, so that that that helps accelerate my progress in wrestling because I had two very, very good guys that yeah, I mean I got whooped every day but you know I I could see in competition.
Speaker 2:Well, this is actually getting me better once you got off. Yeah, once you get out of the practice room. Yeah, yeah. Okay, can't do anything in the practice. Could see in competition. Well, this is actually getting me better Once you got off.
Speaker 3:Yeah, once you get out of the practice room. Yeah, yeah, okay, can't do anything in the practice room. I think competition actually beats me Bring it out?
Speaker 2:Yeah for sure. Obviously, like I could sit and talk to you, know, van Bril, about Super 32s and stuff like that. We didn't have that. No, and I'm not going to ask your age, but I can tell that we're not far off and I don't remember Super 32 and stuff like that. I remember my brother, who was seven years older than I was. Those guys would take a trip down to Iowa every year. I don't even remember what the tournament was called. That could have been like the preseason nationals before it was preseason nationals, but it was freestyle, I believe. So those guys made one trip down there every single year. We're just some lonely wisconsin kids up in oshkosh, wisconsin, and they would drive down. I think my dad drove one year and then a couple other dads drive the next year. So those tournaments I remember. But when you guys in, especially in indiana, what? What was the besides state? Was there a coup de gras type tournament that you guys had that you went to?
Speaker 3:I mean, fargo was probably the only thing. That was the one. Yeah, that was the one. And I just remember after that sophomore year they said okay, now we got to start. I thought I was going to go back to the weight room and lift.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And they're like no, you got to start doing freestyle. And I'm like what, how do you do what? I mean probably every kid's journey when you're trying to figure out. Okay, you know, you spent all this time teaching me what a takedown was and how to get off bottom, and now you're telling me, if I get taken down, don't get off.
Speaker 2:And I can lock my hands.
Speaker 3:You know, yeah, like don't lock your hands Now you can lock my hands. You know, yeah, like don't lock your hands Now you can lock your hands.
Speaker 2:Now you're like wait, I'm so confused. So so that was the big one. So when you were coming up you you spoke about obviously at the practice partners you had what was probably the toughest, I guess the toughest obstacle you had as a youth wrestler, as a young wrestler, and then what was the toughest obstacle besides the practice room as you got into high school?
Speaker 3:oh gosh, uh, I'd say just persevering every day, you know, I mean learning how to uh in in practice.
Speaker 3:You just think more strength, more effort will get you x, y and z, because you're always taught you know give 110 and you know do everything you can. So you're like, okay, I just need to push more and I'll get said result. But you know that's not always the case. Um, in in wrestling and kind of learning how to figure things out, you know, I mean you're a lot of people talk about getting going in the lab and figuring stuff out and obviously you can see it with how wrestling is now. Just I mean the wrestling is unbelievable now.
Speaker 3:It's kids kind of getting into the lab and, you know, figuring things out and it's not like all this necessarily like effort and just I just got to push harder train harder, you know so, um, just being able to understand and do that at a, at a young age, and obviously you have people that are kind of coaching you, teaching you how to do things right, you kind of make it your own once, you kind of get a good feel for it I take man, I can totally understand that, because the the one thing that I see, especially now, um, is that the, the mental blocks.
Speaker 2:I mean because there's so much right. I mean they got social media now and things like that. I think we had our own uh, obstacles and just things that got in our way, but it wasn't quite as dramatic as it is now. Right, you had your parents back then and maybe you had some guys around you that make funny, whatever it was. But now it's the pressure of you know what did someone say on this page or what did someone say in this forum, and things like that. But when, when you got into those situations, like were you? It just sounds like from the stories you're telling like you were able to kind of just you have the mentality of just to overcome something and just to keep pushing and just to keep persevering. What did you have? A person that was kind of like, hey, don't worry, you know I see you're stressing out about this, don't worry about that, just keep going uh I had some pretty good uh coaches, okay, um, that you know, at least they knew how to get the most out of you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and and at the end of the day, um, I think probably what benefited me is me being a sport that my parents didn't really know a lot about. Yeah, there's not necessarily.
Speaker 3:You talked a lot about pressure, so there's not necessarily a bunch of pressure in terms of, oh, you got to do this, this and this because right, they didn't know, I didn't know, yeah yeah it's like oh okay, yeah he's active in something, he seems to enjoy it and he's trying hard okay, yeah right there you go you know so and then, um, you know, the coach is just getting the passion out of you, which that's probably the biggest thing I could take from my high school coaches is just drawing the passion out of you and you know, kind of again perfecting your craft and getting better at it. Yeah, where'd you go to high school? Lawrence central high school? Okay, yeah, in Indianapolis.
Speaker 2:In Indianapolis. Okay, so one of the assistant coaches here is from Indiana, zach Pearson. I don't know if you ever heard of him, what high school. Maybe Zach should chime in. I know he's watching. Okay, I want to say somewhere around the crown point area. Okay, around there I can't remember.
Speaker 2:He's a region rat yeah, yeah, either that or was indianapolis. I think he said that he grew up in indianapolis, but I can't remember what school. So he talks a lot about indiana. You don't hear about it a lot like even there are some kids that when we're traveling around doing dual teams, that were, you know, all those kids at indiana is blowing through people. I'm like indiana, like what's going on down?
Speaker 3:there, you know, so it's indiana is, um, I I could say it's hot and cold. It kind of goes in cycles. Yeah, you know, there there's some years where, in in terms of the quantity and depth, there's a lot, a lot of really talented kids, yeah, and there are other years it's a little bit thinner, sure you know so I mean I'm sure every state goes through it's, it's oh, yeah, it's cycles, hands down.
Speaker 2:I mean we had dave schultz here in the 80s. Yeah, you know wisconsin was doing all right for a little bit, and then you know you got your down down cycles, which happens everywhere. Yep, so it's so. The high school you went to um and again we talked about tournaments being different. Recruiting was way different. Then too, you're sending VHS tapes and stuff. You weren't sending video files. You had to mail it out or you had to write something out or type it out or whatever. When you were in high school and I'll jump past your freshman year and we'll talk about maybe sophomore junior and we'll come back to freshman quick it shouldn't, shouldn't bother too much. But where, where were you in the thought process of once you got into sports in high school? Was it something? Sports was something you wanted to continue getting out of high school, it was just something I did it's literally just something I did.
Speaker 2:This is amazing, so I don't get this. So this is guy. My brain kind of works a little bit. Everybody was like, yes, I, this is exactly what I wanted to do. I was, I was so.
Speaker 3:So I always enjoyed watching sports. Yep, and I guess it. If a sport was on tv, I sat and watched it yeah you know, because I many, many moons ago, I thought I wanted to be a sports broadcaster.
Speaker 1:Oh, you know, lucas peters there you go yeah yeah, yeah, that's right, you know.
Speaker 3:But it was just something I did because I was always taught you're just gonna be involved with something, sure, okay, but I I really didn't. Um, this is probably bad and I don't know if I should say this, but um the door is wide open here. Man, like I didn't know who dan gable was until my junior year in high school. Blasphemy, understandable College wrestling that really wasn't. I didn't think about college wrestling until I got my first letter. Wow Okay, I was like oh okay, I guess I could do this at the next level.
Speaker 1:Now we're talking. I just got a letter.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But it never really. I didn't have a vision. Yeah, yeah, you know, but like it, never really, I, I didn't have a vision. Yeah, you know, it wasn't necessarily painted for me, it was just kind of like sure, you have a passion for this, let's just keep getting better, yeah, you know. And then, uh, the couple teammates I had, um, when I was junior, they were senior, they were getting recruited, okay, you know. And then, because they were getting recruited, that's probably why I got some interest, because, okay, I hadn't done anything at that point.
Speaker 2:So, you got caught in the wrestling net. Essentially is what happened. They caught you and you're like all right, I'm coming on the boat. Basically that's so it's for the younger viewers out there. We used to have things called newspapers and the newspapers didn't get clicks and likes, so they wrote about what they wanted to. So Indiana may not have heard too much about Dan Gable in those times. So that's why I can understand why I didn't hear about him, or or maybe even know, because hey, you just don't. You just don't hear about it all the time and if you won the Olympics in the seventies, you're definitely not going to hear about them. You know, in the in the early to mid-80s, after you're reading the local newspaper, so that's understandable. But then you just get a letter hey, we'd like you to come on over and wrestle at our college, and you're like, all right.
Speaker 3:What college was that?
Speaker 2:It was the first letter.
Speaker 3:I want to say it was like Wabash or something like that. I mean a bunch of you know smaller D3 schools.
Speaker 2:Yeah, okay, you know so and that sparked your interest a little bit more going into college.
Speaker 3:Yeah, because it's like oh okay, I can I could probably do this at the next level. Yes, yeah, you know yeah.
Speaker 2:So when, uh, when obviously you're going through, still going through high school, did you that going through like your freshman year school? Did you that going through like your freshman year? Where did you have goals like these kids do now or again? Was it just a hey, I'm just gonna show up and do my best?
Speaker 3:I'm just so every time yeah, so freshman year I didn't wrestle, it was just football. I didn't start, oh really, yeah, I didn't start wrestling in my sophomore year, oh yeah wow yeah, yeah, so it was, it was was. I didn't have that long-term thought in my head. Yeah, you know so it. I mean, I didn't know how to think long-term like that. You know, as a kid, you're just going day by day, Okay.
Speaker 2:Doing your thing Okay.
Speaker 3:Today's Wednesday I go to school, I go to practice.
Speaker 2:All right, man. So this is. This is actually something that I I'm completely interested in because, number one, when I played soccer and the sports that I was in, I was on my own. You know, I didn't, I didn't have, I didn't go to camps like liam gets to go to. I didn't, and that's why he goes, because I didn't. I wasn't afforded that camps were to. Yeah, it was non-existent to me. My brother went to a couple, but if we went to a campus because it was the olympic development camp down the road and it was another practice we could go to, didn't think about an olympic team. I was like, oh cool, it's an olympic development team. I would go and then I make the team. My parents like what next?
Speaker 2:I was like oh, you know, I got no idea. So I'm on the same path as what you were, that's right. I wasn't getting letters from colleges when I was at on the same path. I was just doing something that I really, really liked doing, which was playing sports. I found the one sport I didn't have the availability because I didn't like school. Don't pay attention to that. Kids Go to school, that's right, go to school. I just wasn't good at it. So when I got the choice to be like, well, I'm not going to be able to do this, I kind of gave up. I'll be honest, it was one of those things where I was like, all right, well, after senior year, this is done. So, you know, you kind of I I got kind of, I guess, kind of like a sports depression. Were you ever at a point when you were playing sports, whichever it was? Did you ever think that you would just, I'm good on sports, I'm going to go do this over over here. Did you ever want to stop doing sports?
Speaker 3:no, I always wanted to keep doing sports. You know that's. You know you gain confidence from it, you have fun. Uh, you end up learning how to become a leader. Yeah, you become team captain, all that stuff. So you know, kind of the young guys and the coaches kind of expect things out of you. You know you're modeling the behavior you want to see. So I always enjoyed that, you know. But it was always just, you know, after high school you just kind of figured, yeah, I'm done I'm done, yeah okay, right, so what?
Speaker 2:because now the story kind of turns more obviously as you get older and with the, with the letters coming in. What? Where were your parents when these letters started coming? What were the? What was their thought? You know as far as what were they? Oh, wow, okay, well, let's, let's explore this more. You know, like, were they maybe ones that kind of got you out there a little bit more than once? They saw that you had something? Or were they just like okay, we're, we'll come along, what do you, what do you need, my mom?
Speaker 3:always kept letters, okay, but the rule was always job, military school after high school. Damn, those were your three options, okay, and living at home is not one of them that's my option too yeah, my parents were old school, so okay. Okay, here are your three options.
Speaker 2:So we'll figure it out, but so did you? Did you explore the other two, I mean the other than school? Did you explore military? No, not at all.
Speaker 3:No, not at all, no no, I, I, my dad, was in the marines. Okay, I kind of felt like I was in the military yeah, I'm good on that.
Speaker 1:I'm like yeah good on that.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'm good, okay. So school was obviously the option. You're getting letters. Were you taking visits, were you? How did that go back then? Again, I missed the boat. Oh.
Speaker 3:I just thought it was cool that you know, when you're 16, 17,. Oh, there's a letter addressed to me Like normally all the mail's going to your parents and like, oh, there's something in here for me, yeah. But then my mom kind of kept all that stuff, so it really didn't get serious till senior year, Okay, when that was back, when you kind of could still be recruited your senior year. The recruiting has just changed so much now, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know yeah.
Speaker 3:But again I don't know if I necessarily had a long-term vision or plan and again, nobody in my family had really been down this path. So yeah, New to everybody.
Speaker 2:Interesting, so no new road. New road in general yeah, new road in general. Yeah, new road in general right when you got to the point of okay, I have these letters here. How did you, was it making phone calls to those coaches? Did they come to your house?
Speaker 3:no, I was not good for people's good no, it was uh, you know the letters, and if there was a questionnaire then, uh, I think usually my mom would fill it out. I, I really don't even remember filling out paperwork at all so I think my mom did a lot of the heavy lifting there. Okay, so what?
Speaker 2:did you how? How did you pick? How did you go through the process of finding out where you wanted to go?
Speaker 3:that's kind of whoever called me the most interesting though see how times have changed folks.
Speaker 2:They've changed immensely, right. So what? What interested you then? What I mean? Obviously you had to like what you want, what you were going into your senior year.
Speaker 3:I mean whether yeah, so, so really again your selection process. I guess it was not a good selection process. But uh, going to my senior year, um the junior year in football, and again, football is probably still a little bit more my passion. Okay, and at least at that point I'm better at football than I am wrestling okay um, you know, if, if anything was going to happen, it was probably going to be on the football end, in the back of my mind. Okay, is you know what I'm thinking?
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 3:And my junior year in high school, our team in Indiana, the state series. It's sectionals, regional, semi-state and state and our high school had never won. It had been a long time since they'd won sectionals and we got to the. You had to win like three games to advance to sectionals and for the first time ever we advanced. I'm sorry, not the first time ever, but the first time in a long time we advanced to like the sectional uh championship game. Okay, um, and I think that year we played it was either cathedral warren central, a team that's pretty good. Yeah, we ended up, uh, losing um, you know it's kind of tough, but it was like, okay, we're again, we're getting better, let's. Yeah, keep, just keep getting better.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know you know, and then senior year, um, we played warren central in the sectional finals and they they're still pretty good in the state of india. They're kind of one of the powerhouses, okay, in indiana football. So we end up beating them um. And then we um, we um. Who did we play?
Speaker 3:no, I'm sorry, we beat muncie central oh, okay, okay, muncie central yeah, and then we ended up playing ben davis in the regional, yeah, which they're also another football powerhouse. Okay, uh, we ended up losing them and it was this rainy, muddy game and all that stuff, and you know like, okay, well, this is probably my last football game and so it is what it is, and then move on to wrestling.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And what finally kind of got people's attention. Not that I got a lot of coaches' attentions, but there was a kid in the state. His name was James Brim, he's from Evansville, he had actually wrestled my teammate the year before and he beat my teammate before my teammate ended up winning state that year. Okay, so the weight class was 189, and it was me and him and we had this tight match. I think he lost like 2-0 or 3-0 to him and all that stuff. But then all those letters started picking up from college and I noticed the schools were a little bit bigger and more well-known on the wrestling end than the football end. I'm like, oh, people must have watched this match, maybe a little bit. That's kind of where. Okay, maybe I can do this in college, the wrestling thing.
Speaker 2:Okay, what made you pick the school you went to? What was that? What was the school? You ultimately picked indiana. What made you pick indiana? Close to home? That kind of thing, no, I mean distance really wasn't a thing for me.
Speaker 3:No, yeah, um I well, growing up, I'd actually never really liked indiana, to be honest with you okay, interesting it was always indiana basketball was a thing and yeah, you know, I was just kind of like, don't really like that. But yeah, you visit a place and you kind of fall in love with it and okay, I knew several of the guys on the team and you know, just mingling with the guys on the team and all that stuff. Yeah, kind of, after that visit I was like, oh, maybe I can't see myself here it felt comfortable.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, so you, your, your choice is that is indiana. What was your, I guess, what was it like, as you're kind of were you? Were you excited about college? Were you nervous, was it? Uh, or was it just the next step?
Speaker 3:it was just kind of the next step, you know, and, and, and I didn't know what to expect in college. Yeah, you know, like I was just learning everything and you know, were you afraid I was probably too stupid to be not going there, not going there in my basement, nope, so it's.
Speaker 2:I'm just. It's intriguing because a lot of, again, a lot of what drove you was just kind of inside, like it was your dad, you know, said, hey, nope, you need to go to practice, right? You need to do this. It was just. It's just what needs to be done.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it seems to be the mentality it seems kind of going through yeah, I mean you kind of you don't know what you don't know, and it's just like you know, you keep putting one foot in front of the other and you just kind of keep coming along and you know, like, like I said, the only little um, I guess you say mandate.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Was again job, military school and after 18.
Speaker 2:You're out. Yeah, yeah, that was it. It's kind of our house rule, you know so, and I can I? Can appreciate that and in a fact of that, because, again, this kind of our mentality as well, it's not. It's not that we don't love him, but it's time, yeah you know it's time. It's time to do you, it's time for you to get your thing going, you know. So I can appreciate that, because it doesn't sound like it was a God get out of here you know, it sounds like it was a hey, this is life.
Speaker 3:And this is the real world.
Speaker 1:Spread your wings at 18.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you're your real world options. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2:so what did you? Did you encounter any type of any type of uh like, uh, like uh I don't want to say mental breakdown, but kind of like uh I miss how it was type depression, you know kind of thing. Did you ever run into that? Or were you so involved in whatever you were doing you didn't have time to think about that? No, I really cause.
Speaker 3:I mean where I ended up going to school. I'm not that far away from home, true. You know home true, you know, um and uh, I always felt like I was an independent type uh person and, like I said, wrestling was still new to me. You know, yeah, going in my freshman year it was sophomore junior that was my fourth year wrestling you know, I mean you're talking. Everybody else in the wrestling room probably has a good 10 years in.
Speaker 3:I got four years and you know like I said I didn't know who dan gable was and, like my college coach, duane goldman was nc champ. I had no clue I was like oh, that's kind of nice. It's neat. You know, like I'm just yeah, I'm so new and naive to everything what was so because of the?
Speaker 2:I mean, you were in football and wrestling, now going into a college room. Was that a culture shock?
Speaker 3:Probably the shock was just the amount of what I thought was hard work. Yeah, and what was shown to me to be hard work? Two different things, you know, like no, this is what working hard is. This, this is, you know, and you just got to learn everything. Yeah, you know, and I, I, you know, back then everybody had a red shirt and I, a thousand percent, I probably needed four red shirts, you know, just because it I'm just so new and naive to everything yeah, you know.
Speaker 3:So I really just kind of learning, taking things in and you know again.
Speaker 2:Just okay, I'm just trying to get better no, so you're just in the room, quiet learning, taking in and what you could um get my ass kicked right, yeah, for sure, for sure but it sounds almost like the model of what kind of like an underclassman is almost expected to do when they come in the room, like you just pay attention, listen, take it in and you'll get your. You know, get your wings as you go along, just like mom and dad wants you to get your wings, you know kind of thing. So as you're going in through the college process and you get into the room and you start wrestling, where did you wind up in a starting position as you kind of got through it?
Speaker 3:so I had a red shirt and yep, uh, I'm obviously looking back. I wish I would have taken that a lot more seriously. Um so, my red shirt, freshman year um, I could not. 197 that was my weight class. I couldn't beat the guy we had a fifth year senior. There was top 15 in the country. Okay, I could not beat him. So the coaches actually pulled me inside and said hey, why don't you just wrestle heavyweight? So you know there's an opportunity for me at heavyweight. So I end up wrestling and I didn't have a very good year, but but by the end of the year again keep getting better. Yeah, I ended up qualifying for nationals Nice.
Speaker 1:You know.
Speaker 3:so I was. I mean, I'm an undersized heavyweight and the heavyweights back then I'm trying to think. I think Michigan had Aaron Richardson. It was multi-time All-American Mm-hmm Shelton Benjamin.
Speaker 3:I remember that name. Yeah, I'm trying to think of some of the other guys, but there are a lot of. It's been a while, heavy weight has changed and back then, at least to me, it felt like, yeah, back then it felt like these guys were huge, right, you know they are, you know huge, right, you know they are, you know, huge, and you know. I just remember a lot of times I got kind of got my butt handed to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but heavyweight was fat. Back then though, too, like the games changed.
Speaker 3:Those guys weren't fat. No Well, Shelton Benjamin ended up, you know, in the WWE.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 3:Yep, yeparon richardson, who he's a actually a doctor now and and I've connected with him when I was at beat the streets, I actually reconnected with him. Okay, he's a successful doctor in chicago now you know, and he, oh, he remembered me no offense to those guys, I don't want to be caught in the street somewhere.
Speaker 3:No, no, but I mean, these guys, you know, were pretty ripped and jacked and, you know, was undersized and technique wasn't very good, you know? I mean, really the only thing I had was strength, and I'm trying to out-muscle guys that are bigger and stronger than me, so it doesn't work all the time, right?
Speaker 2:So Okay, so obviously you have work, you know work to do, but you already have this mindset of I just need to, I just need to keep working, it's going to pay off. Yeah, kind of thing, that mentality.
Speaker 3:So there's never really been, really at this point, a breakdown point no, no, um, because, like I said, I think I was just so new to to everything that it's like I didn't have time to. You know, I'm just too new to everything.
Speaker 2:Right, You're going, you're doing the thing and honestly, that's a coach's dream Trying to. Obviously you're new, but still you're willing. You're a sponge, You're willing to take it in.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Once you, okay, you get through your first couple of years of college, you know, made tournaments and what was your biggest challenge as far as an opponent back then, besides first starting, I mean, obviously we know, but once you kind of got in the room and you had some experience in ncaa wrestling, who was your biggest like challenging opponent?
Speaker 3:who, yeah, oh yeah, oh, gosh well, gosh well. I had a couple of matches against Brock Lesnar that.
Speaker 2:Wow.
Speaker 3:Okay, it did not end up on my side, you know so not a fat heavyweight not a fat heavyweight you
Speaker 3:know, I mean, I was always, more often than not, the smaller guy. Okay, you know, and obviously I I mean the big 10 has always always been good. So it's, yeah, super high level conference and and um, a lot of good guys, you know, coming through it so trying to figure out, um, how, how, how to beat people in in just the mental game and mental aspect of it, that post-college where you really start diving into it and where you're kind of like, oh man, I wish I would have done this.
Speaker 3:I wish I would have done this man. I really think I could have taken off had I done X, y and Z. So I mean I don't want to miss anybody, but I just in the Big Ten. They were all very challenging, okay.
Speaker 3:You know when I was, I think, either my junior or senior year, tommy Rollins was coming along. Aha, he's a two-time NCAA champion. Yep, he was smaller than the other guys, so I'm like, okay, this guy isn't as big as these guys. Well, roland's had a lot of good technique and he was quick. I was flat-footed and slow, so it's like, well, this is well, it's not working out very well for me you know, yeah, where did where did you wind up?
Speaker 2:I guess halfway, halfway like your junior year. Was there a progression in college for you as you were wrestling? Was there record-wise? Or you lost to this guy one year but you beat him the next year, kind of thing.
Speaker 3:So I had a lot of back and forth with a guy, matt Lamb, from Michigan State. Okay, as far as progression, I was getting better, but it wasn't necessarily always showing you know, um, and like freshman year qualified for nationals with sophomore year.
Speaker 3:I actually ended up breaking my leg two weeks before big tens, you know, and I was having a solid. You know again, yeah, the progression. So that was kind of tough. And then the guy they ended up putting in Big Tens for me how it works at Big Tens is you are the. He had to end up because he didn't have a record at the weight, so he's the last seed, so he draws the tops.
Speaker 3:I mean, his two draws that year at Big were west hand and, um, uh, brock lesnar so you know, and I was an undersized heavyweight and this guy he was like I think he was a 174 pounder, 174, 184 pounds, so he really undersized yeah so yeah, I'm sitting in crutches and in the stands and I'm like, oh man, I'm, I'm so sorry, so sorry, buddy, so sorry yeah.
Speaker 2:So you definitely had a progression. I'm more impressed, obviously, by the mentality of just. I mean, like you say, you just didn't know You're doing just what you thought you had to do, right to make things go. At what point, once you, I guess, got to, you know, like junior, senior year, what were your thoughts of what you wanted to do? Did you have future thoughts of things that you wanted to do from that point? Because you got a lot, man, I mean, looking at the background, the coaching that you did, and just from the length of it. You've been doing it a while. It's not just like five years, you've been doing it, you've been doing it for a while. Man. I tell everybody I'm the old man on staff. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that. But I also want to know more of like the. There must be a passion that obviously got put into you at some point because you've been doing it for this long now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's just, I think, what I've always liked wrestling and this is probably you know, a lot of wrestlers will tell you they're stubborn and sure you know, is Yep for sure. You know I've got that stubbornness in me, but I kind of like the independence of being able to figure stuff out and at the end of the day it's on you, yeah, right, so and obviously I enjoyed my time playing team sports and all that stuff but, you know you could do your part, but if somebody doesn't do x, then you know the play falls apart and all that stuff which there's value to that stuff too.
Speaker 3:But I kind of like just the work you put in and at the end of the day it it's you and somebody else and you know if you fall short, you got to look at you and figure out okay, what do I need to fix? You know, this book I'm reading Leading with Dignity. In there it talks about, it says something about failure only means that something needs to change. You know, and that you know. I read that passage to our team because I think that's impactful and just like you know, that's not a be all, end all or a hey, this is where you are. It's just like, okay, what do we need to fix? Yeah, and that's what we try to stress to our guys you know, couldn't agree more with that.
Speaker 2:So you get through, you're getting through college. Where do you start the coaching mindset when? Where do you start to grasp to that?
Speaker 3:So, probably, like everybody else, once you get a degree, okay, now what I've been told, get this degree. I got this degree. Now, what? You know, what was your degree? Uh, public affairs management, nice, yep, okay, yep, all right. Yep. So, um, I had an opportunity and dwayne was kind enough to kind of, uh, keep me around and help out with the guys for a year. Yeah, um, but basically I ended up probably working a lot more in coaching because I needed money, sure, so, no way, I ended up.
Speaker 3:As far as getting the passion for coaching, I ended up moving back to indianapolis and I was an assistant coach for one year at a inner city high school, arsenal technical high school in Indianapolis. Okay, nice, and that's kind of where I got, I guess, the niche for coaching, because the head coach at the time he was ready to pass this along and, hey, I'm done. And he basically, like, you run everything, I'll do all the paperwork and stuff, you know, make sure the bus is where they need to be. But here you go and, um, the team had had the best season that it had in 15, 20 years. Okay, so I was kind of like, okay, hey, I had an impact. Yeah, so I was like I kind of like this, but I didn't feel like the high school level was necessarily the level for me. Okay, so, and I also didn't have a teaching license.
Speaker 2:So at the end of the day, when the job came open, you know, the ad was like well, we hired this guy because he has a teaching license, so he's in the building, you're, you're not in the building yeah but we want you to still stay on and I was like, nah, I'm good okay, okay, yeah, I'm not gonna be a teacher, okay, so that was kind of obvious, obviously a blocker, but that obviously you had something in your head. I can do this yeah, yeah yeah, where did you go? What? What road took you where after that?
Speaker 3:then my old high school coach was actually coaching at the university of indianapolis. Okay, so, and I can't remember how we got reconnected, but yeah, somehow, yeah, we got reconnected. And somebody put in my head that, well, you know, if you help coach there, they'll pay for classes and you can go get a master's or your teaching license and then you can do that.
Speaker 3:So I was like okay, well, maybe I'll do that. Yeah, you know, and this was the college level, so I'm pretty much fresh out of college. So at the university of Indianapolis at the time that year they'd had the best season that they'd ever had and we had a bunch of other guys. They were all in the room fresh out of college and actually we're working out with these guys. So it was probably a two-fold benefit. You know, I'm getting some of my classes paid for and, uh, these guys at the university of indianapolis are getting probably this infusion of workout partners they'd never had before. Oh, okay, yeah, you know. So, yeah, there was a, I was in the room. There's a one of my old high school teammates. He wrestled at michigan state. He was in the room. Um, there's another guy that, uh, wrestled at purdue. He was in the room, you know. So there was a bunch of guys just fresh out of college, you know, from division one level. Yeah, helping out this division two team. So spread some knowledge.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, you know, so obviously that program took a step up yeah, it's a little bit okay.
Speaker 2:So that was that was your first real, like college opportunity to be able to coach. Yep, was that scary, was that? Was that a any type of fear for you going through that? Was that so new to you too that you were just kind of like, okay, what do I gotta do? Just next step, next step yeah, it's just kind of you know damn it, mike, that's good. I mean, hey, that's the best mentality I was, yeah no, it, it.
Speaker 3:But that's kind of where I started kind of reflecting in terms of, okay, what changes could I've made during my college career? Where you start passing it along to other people, yeah, you know, in terms of giving guidance, yep, you know, okay, and stuff. So I, I think, and just seeing on on my end, seeing that kids are actually getting better, probably gives you more confidence as a coach too.
Speaker 3:It's like, okay, hey, this is working, I'm actually getting through to so and so because sometimes you think you're making it clear, you think you're getting through to people and nope, it's not happening.
Speaker 2:Giant wall, brick wall, yeah, it's not happening. I I can agree with that, because I remember just coaching little kids and there's a kid that was afraid of a soccer ball, right, just I mean, the ball went up in the air and he ducked like it was a bomb threat, right, and I in my head I said I'm gonna make sure that that kid, by the end of the season, is not afraid of a ball. I did a couple things maybe that I shouldn't have, but the kid understood and it wasn't hurt, it wasn't anything like real bad. But I put him in a goalie because the balls can come at you, yeah, and you can't run from it, because if you run from it it's not gonna be good. So I took him personally, I'd kick the ball while he's in the goal and just like just him, just stand there, I'm not gonna hit you promise, just trying to score a goal. Okay, so just kick it. And finally I, by the end of the season, the kid, that ball would be kicked out of his face. He didn't even care.
Speaker 3:I love that. Yeah, you know that's.
Speaker 2:That's that progression that I love, as, as far as coaching, I didn't care if the kid scored a goal, I didn't care if he passed the ball properly, I just wanted to look the ball in the eye If it was in the air, coming in and whatever. So I can totally agree with that when it comes to coaching, knowing that you of an impact you had a unique situation and a unique opportunity with beat the streets.
Speaker 3:Yes, how did that come about?
Speaker 3:oh uh, well, um, one of my uh good friends and teammates, uh, mike powell okay he um, had a very successful coaching career at Oak Park, river Forest High School and his new passion became Beat the Street Chicago and there's a bunch of different chapters and he was getting on the ground floor developing that. And during COVID, when everything had shut down, we just started Damn C-word. We just started having conversations and at this time I had been coaching for a decent amount of time and I'm like, okay, my goal is always, I want to be a head coach, I want to be a head coach. At this point it hadn't happened yet. So I'm like, okay, maybe, know, my goal is always, you know, I want to be a head coach, want to be a head coach. At this point it hadn't happened yet. So I'm like, okay, well, maybe this isn't in the cards for me. Sure so, and Beat the Street Chicago they were looking to expand and kind of look for somebody to take over the kind of wrestling aspect of it as well as the enrichment piece of it.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, kind of wrestling aspect of it, as well as the enrichment piece of it.
Speaker 3:Oh okay, yeah, you know so kind of, here's the business side of it that somebody's going to take over and in terms of the programming and the wrestling portion, we need somebody in charge of this. So after a bunch of conversations, I'm like you know, why not? Let's, let's try this, you know know, and it's, it's. It was still a way for me to be involved with wrestling. Um, it that was probably career wise in in terms of being able to shift, because coaching to me maybe it's kind of come naturally, I guess but, leading youth and young people versus leading adults two different things, you know.
Speaker 3:getting kids that are kind of already part of a team to kind of reach a shared and common goal.
Speaker 3:Mm hmm, that I found to be not as challenging as, okay, trying to get adults to kind of do the same thing, you know and there's a challenge to it and and, um, you know, pal mentored me a lot about um, you know, basically, kind of you you've got to lead people and it's not your job to necessarily do everything, but your job is to kind of help set this vision, you know, and there was always books he would recommend I read and, and you know, he'd connect me with different groups in terms of people and just learning how to lead.
Speaker 3:Because I had to learn how to lead, because I thought I knew how to lead. I had no no idea how to lead, sure, had zero idea how to do it sure, so it's, that was a challenge and it took me a while and that's that's probably the thing that you're always evolving and trying to grow in, and that's to this day, for the last couple years, a lot of the books I read are leadership focused and all that stuff, because I think it's just a challenge. It's a constant challenge For sure, for sure.
Speaker 2:So it obviously brought you some unique opportunities, unique challenges. You were able to open up more as a person sounds like, being able to you know, understand that I need to different things I need to do to lead. I'm not doing the right things. Were there ever, um, uh, the challenges that I guess maybe made you decide to not do it anymore? Was it too much or was it just the time was up? Like I, I got another opportunity that is more kind of geared towards what I really want to do. How did that? How did that all go?
Speaker 2:no, it it was uh, it's not like you only did it for a year, you know, no, I I I did beat the streets uh for two years there and we had started uh during covid.
Speaker 3:When I first got on board, there were eight kids on zoom wall and and that's uh, you know, during covid, depending on where you were kind of what the rules were and how everybody treated it and in in chicago and in the city it was treated.
Speaker 3:You know um a certain way where you know uh, the protocols were, I'd say followed probably to a t. Yeah, you know um, what helped grow our organization is obviously everybody, I think, learned a lot during covet and what a lot of the parents learned is my kid, my young teenage boy or girl or youth boy or girl, sitting at home and doing nothing is not good, correct?
Speaker 2:period correct I don't even think it's good for me as an adult, right you know?
Speaker 3:correct, correct. So, uh, we were fortunate that, um, the in the process, before I jumped on board, they had already bought a facility. Okay, um, because they had already realized it beat the streets Because before they were just whatever high school or gym had space. Okay, this is where the practice is today, so it's on different days, it's at different places. Okay, of course that gets confusing to people. Sure, when you're dealing with a sport that you're trying to introduce to kids and you know kids have never wrestled before and all that stuff, that it just gets confusing. Everybody gets confused. They got to work all day and then, wait, you were here Tuesday and now we got to go where and do what. You know, they bought a building and they're like no, we're going to have a dedicated facility where this is where kids can come to.
Speaker 3:Okay, so, um, once we'd finally open that, um, you know we still had to follow kind of covid restrictions and they started easing back up and then, you know, things got worse and all that stuff. So, back and forth, um, at one point covid had gotten so bad again that at least in chicago, everybody had to have a VAX card, or these were adults, the adults had to have a VAX card, they wouldn't let you in the building. And the city of Chicago told every business you better enforce this, and we're sending people around to make sure you're enforcing this. If you don't, then we're going to fine your business and all that stuff. What, yikes? It was a thing.
Speaker 3:And Chicago, depending upon where you are, people react to those things. I guess you could say differently Sure, yep, but at the end of the day, we were a youth organization. Our goal was youth. So we ended up coming to the understanding and our policy became look, we're not trying to get political with this and, yep, we don't care about your stance on covid. Yep, we're here for the kids, yep, so no parents are in the building, whether you're vaccinated, not just you're dropping your kid off. Yep, you can stay in the parking lot if you want, but you can't come in because we're not going to be the covid police.
Speaker 3:We're like yeah we're not in that business. We're here to help get your kids better.
Speaker 2:As a parent, I can appreciate that. Yeah, yeah totally.
Speaker 3:Most of the parents were on board, yep, and they were fine with it. Yep, um, but what started happening? And then, obviously, the spring came, we started getting more and more people introduced to wrestling because, again, the parents are like my kid has to do something and they knew in this particular neighborhood in chicago, hey, this place just opened, it's a physical activity. Go do it, yeah right no kidding, go do it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I remember one parent came up to me um, she was picking her kid up and she said I don't know what it is you guys are doing here, but my kid comes home, he's tired, he goes to bed and he loves it thank you so she was like just keep doing whatever you're doing. Yeah, right, you know. So we grew the organization and by the time I'd left it was over 2000.
Speaker 3:Uh damn mike uh, wow and and uh. It was the largest wrestling organization in the united states. Wow, so well done. Since then they've expanded. I know they've opened up another facility like so they're they're doing a great job over at beat the street, chicago wow, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:That's I mean honestly to to hear that that's able to come out of that situation yeah the whole. Just I don't even every time, and almost everybody that I've had on here from college athletes coaches that covid shit comes up all the time and it's like I can't believe that kids had to like endure, endure the stuff that adults were. It was just crazy, and not even to politicize it, just thinking about it in general and what people had to go through. So that's awesome that you guys were able to pull that through.
Speaker 3:That's significant. I mean, there's a great team up there and there's a lot of great leadership up there and they got a vision and there's a plan and, like I said, I thoroughly enjoyed my time up there. Um so, and they got a vision and there's a plan and and, like I said I, I thoroughly enjoyed my time up there and it, it as far as it, although it was short as far as the two-year stretch. I probably learned more in those two years than I have in my entire time coaching did.
Speaker 2:Did you find yourself because you talked about having to learn how to lead? Did you find yourself embracing how to lead at that point?
Speaker 3:Probably not. In the beginning I thought I knew it. I'm good, Sure sure You're still learning a little bit more, and then no, I'm not good. You know. Yeah, it's just different. And then when you start talking to other people and other leaders and other organizations, you know some had similar mission statements. There was another organization that was pretty similar to Beat the Streets, but they did it with boxing.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay, yeah, okay the streets uh but they did it with boxing, you know, okay, yeah, okay. So we kind of had a group where we we would meet, uh, pretty regularly and kind of discuss, you know, challenges and all that stuff and a workshop a little bit. Yeah, yeah, um, but one of the things that this guy shared with me, that um kind of stuck with me and you know, ever, ever since he said it. Maybe it's just cause I've noticed more people saying it more, but you know, a lot of times where people fall short is because the end goal isn't clear or success isn't defined. Sure, so if me and you are trying to get to point B, but I'm not making it clear to you about what our mission is and what exactly we should be accomplishing, you might take it one way, I take it another, and then all of a sudden we're not on the same page and you know, on different ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know. So one of the things he stressed to me is you have to define what success is and make sure everybody understands that this is what success is. This is what it looks like. Okay, he said, if you start from there and ever since then I've been in different workshops and they've all pretty much said the same thing Define what success is, let people understand this is what it is and then from there kind of work backwards. And that's where you kind of give people the freedom and the autonomy to do it their way yeah.
Speaker 3:Because my way may not necessarily be the same as your way, right, to do it their way. Yeah, because my way may not necessarily be the same as your way, right, but if you know, this is our end goal. This is what we're trying to accomplish. Okay, I know I have a way to get there. That's fantastic. Perfect, we can learn together.
Speaker 2:Perfect oh yeah, so you beat the streets. Um what? What was indiana? Right after beat the streets?
Speaker 3:it was before and after.
Speaker 2:Before and after well, yeah, before, but then, right then, right after, was Indiana.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 2:Which is where you are now. Yep, what brought you to Indiana? Was it a phone call from someone? Or did you know of an opportunity that opened up? And you're like, hey, how'd that?
Speaker 3:happen. It was a phone call. An angel called me Mr Escobedo.
Speaker 3:We had actually had him up for a um a clinic oh okay, I think it was around the time we were doing the first ever beat the streets national duels. Okay, yeah, you know. And then called after and you know we just started talking and over the summer we just kind of kept talking and then, you know, talking to the ad and all that stuff, yeah, um, I think, having gone to school there, there's always a place in your heart for you know what, what you define as you know home and you you want to make sure that. I want to see this program be successful and I, I know it can be great, I know it can be elite and you know, making sure that it gets to that point yeah I, I think it's important, you know, and and that's what we've been trying to do the last couple years here yeah, I'd say I mean you a couple guys already.
Speaker 2:I mean a couple couple guys that I know of already that are on the roster, but now you picked up some. So I mean the vision has obviously changed from where it was right and angel angel takes over and things have come around. Now you're on board and things do seem to be on the climb right. When you talk about defining success, what is defining success right now at the university of indiana?
Speaker 3:well, the biggest thing that we teach our guys is number one. You got to give your best effort, um, but we have, uh, three core values that, um, when we are in the recruiting process with kids, we want to make sure that kids are aligned with those you know growth, giving and gratitude okay and three, okay, and Three G's, three G's, yeah, and there's a huge sign in the wrestling room those are the three G's and our guys know it.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm, when I came back we talked earlier about, you know, not necessarily everybody was on the same page, yeah, but we had a team meeting one time and this was before the sign was up, and I said do you know, do we have values and all that stuff? And you know, some of the guys said yeah, and I said, okay, where are they? And there's silence, crickets, and I'm like, oh, okay, this is part of the problem. I said the fact that we don't know this. I said this is an issue yeah, so you know that.
Speaker 3:Um, when I came back within the first couple weeks, we kind of had to have a uh, if you will come to jesus meeting, sure, um, yeah, you know, and no, it will to anybody that was, you know, in the team. But you know, sometimes you got to get everybody on the same page and get the right people on, as they say, get the right people on the bus, I'm bored the wrong people off the bus.
Speaker 3:And yeah, that was kind of one of those meetings where you know this is where this program's going. You're welcome to come along, but there are no options. Yeah, this is what we're doing, we're doing it this way. Yep, you know. So you defined it fairly well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and and I, I think, like I said, we have, we have a great staff and um, you know, making sure we are getting kids that align with those values, I think is extremely important because I mean, at the end of the day, there's a lot of people that could teach wrestling moves to people like, sure, yeah, you, you can find thousands and thousands of coaches to do that. You know, um, but making sure you're getting the right kid and coaches that are selfless and pouring into the kids to get the best out of them, you know, I mean, at the end of the day, angel always says, um, he, he wants somebody to kind of beat all his records in Indiana. Sure, you know, yeah, so you know we got a great staff. Where you know, you got Angel Escobedo. He's a four-time All-American. Yep, you got Riley Lefevre he's a four-time national champ. You know, trained over at the Nittany Lion Wrestling Club.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:You got.
Speaker 2:CJ Redd. Uh, you know, trained over at the nitty-gritty lion wrestling club.
Speaker 3:Yep, you got cj red, you know he was just joining the staff, I believe, right, yeah, he's the young buck and he, uh, he connects with young kids really well. I'm, I'm the old man on staff and he, he's the young buck.
Speaker 2:That's a it's a great dynamic. I mean, you have something to touch each kind of area of whatever an athlete, yeah, essentially, is kind of needing to be able to kind of grow. So I think that's. I think that's a path to success in my mind, as far as anything that you guys are trying to do. Obviously you can only do so much. The rest of the people have to follow along.
Speaker 2:So so that's where you're at now and you're making your trips right now and kind of doing the off season thing that I'm sure there's probably 30 other coaches driving around and doing other stuff like that right now too. So much luck to you guys, um, but uh, I guess at the end I don't want to keep it to it. We've been going for about an hour. I want to give you the opportunity for shout outs and to whoever if it's coaches, things like that and then I think I want you to give something to the kids. As far as what are you as a coach and it probably could apply to almost every coach that's out there when it comes the ncaa, what are you, as a coach, looking for in an athlete?
Speaker 2:we know the three g's talk about that that's right what are, what are the? What are the three, like some other things that you think that that you would want an athlete to present to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, um, as far as what athlete presents, obviously, um, one of the things we talked about earlier is, I like, when I'm recruiting, I like showing up to practice. Yeah, yeah, I think I just learned so much more about a kid, their environment, how they train, how they treat people, um, and that that helps with the evaluation process, cause, obviously, you, you can tell if a kid can wrestle like that. That takes two minutes. You're obviously watching them for a reason. Yeah, okay, this kid knows how to wrestle. You know, and I always try to tell people, once coaches and this is in any sport once coaches have identified okay, you have the physical tools and capability to compete at this level, a coach is really now trying to find reasons why shouldn't they be here? What you know? So they're peeling back the layers and you know, as a coach, you're trying to talk to as many people in the kids, uh, inner circle yeah um, to figure out.
Speaker 3:You know what, what makes this kid tick, you know? Is there anything I need to be aware of and yeah, you know, at the end of the day, we we want kids that love wrestling, you know, because they're gonna be hard. Everything's not gonna be this nice linear journey and you know it's gonna be ups and downs, yeah, and you gotta have a passion and a love and a drive that keeps you going. Yeah, because when it's not easy, you know mom and dad aren't there, you know. You know mom's not there to hug you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's tough you know, you know the coaches might be on you. You know, you know. So, like, yeah, you know the every eternal journey about you know, you know the coaches might be on you, you know, you know. So, like you know the the every eternal journey about you know, I just keep trying to get better, keep trying to get better. And you know, see how kids react when things are difficult. That's, that's probably the biggest thing that I want to know when things are hard.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:We. You don't necessarily get what you want. How do you respond? You know?
Speaker 2:I think I've heard that before. Yeah, I think it's so. Like I said it's, it seems like it's what every coach is looking for, like where are you at when the chips fall? Yes, you know what? Are you still crying before your third place match comes up, or whatever? Or have you gotten over, because now you have to focus? So, yeah, I think I'd say I think that's, I think it's beautiful inside. I think it's honestly the real thing.
Speaker 2:That kind of keeps coaches in tune with any of the kids, because, like you said, you can watch a kid wrestle at a tournament, but a kid in a wrestling room, in a practice room, that's where he might show the stuff, because he's under pressure. He's got to do certain things at a tournament In a practice room, he doesn't have pressure, he's normal Joe, everyday Joe. What's he look like when he's everyday joe? That that makes a lot of sense, because a lot of parents live off this fact that they think that, well, every college coach is watching this portion of your tournament and are they, though, like, are they watching every aspect of the tournament? They may watch a couple, sure, once they see that couple, then they're like okay, we got that now.
Speaker 3:What a a little secret about college coaches at tournament that's more just about face time to say, oh yeah, I was here, all that stuff. Okay, like, okay, they already know if you could wrestle or not. So, like I mean, they're there to say, hey, I was here and all that stuff.
Speaker 2:And then obviously you can rub elbows with parents and all that stuff, you want to do that, but right, right, okay, they already know you can wrestle, okay, so so that's, I guess, one more, one more question before we get to the shout outs here when you guys do your weights and scales of a guy that you're interested in I mean, obviously you're not going to travel are you looking up results at least? Then, okay, how did he do here and what was that like? Oh okay, this happened here. Let me check that one matchup, if there's a I'm coming from a coach's frame of mind on that. This isn't even like a parent, really.
Speaker 3:This is yeah, okay, if, if, if there's like a particular high level tournament where you know there's a a bunch of kids you know where you're like they competed against these similar type kids, that's fine Okay. But like I said, at the end of the day, you know, I mean you can take.
Speaker 3:I mean Fargo just happened right, I mean you know you run that tournament back 10 different times, you probably get in 10 different results. Sure, you know that particular week it turned out, however it turned out, is that much superior to the kid that took eighth and all that stuff. And you know I mean there are kids that didn't place, that are more than capable of placing, you know for sure. So results are. I mean, at the end of the day, yes, you have to have the skill level and the abilities to compete right at at the division one level and for us, the big 10. But once we identify that, which it's pretty quickly in the recruiting process, like I said, it's more all the other stuff that we're trying to dig and figure out and obviously making sure are you the right fit?
Speaker 2:Sure, yeah, cause you're like you said, you're trying to create an environment where it's a successful environment. So you want to have those kids that are going to come in and present that and put that through. So I can appreciate that. So shout outs. You got any?
Speaker 3:Shout out to the heart all the hardworking coaches out there. That's right.
Speaker 2:That's right, keep it, you're one of them. I'm going to say you're one of them, that's fine, perfect. Um, I, same thing from here. Um, I, I appreciate what you guys do. I appreciate the time you guys put in. So this is not easy. You're sitting in my basement right now. Does anybody understand that the time he's putting in?
Speaker 3:I was destined to be here so we appreciate that.
Speaker 2:We appreciate your time. We are going to end this because it's time to end it and, uh, we're gonna go. That it's been another episode of the vision quest podcast. It's been a pleasure, mike. Mike, I appreciate you, mr Dixon, for joining me on such a late night. I appreciate you making your way here. I wish you nothing but luck. Obviously, we'll talk a little bit once we're done here, but that's about it, folks.
Speaker 1:We're out, thank you.
