00:00:19
Welcome. Welcome to all my listeners out there. Welcome to is your way in your way podcast. And I'm your host, Cassandra Crawley Mayo. And for my listeners out there, even my new listeners, let me share with you what this podcast is all about.
00:00:34
It's about individuals who are ready to move forward in their life, I mean really ready to do something different, overcome obstacles, mitigate those what I call limiting beliefs or better yet, self imposed barriers that's preventing you from living your best life on your terms. We talk about topics related to business and personal development and even self improvement. And our topic today, I think is just perfect, called from clutter to clarity. And who better to talk to us about that is our expert and I'm going to bring her on board and I'm going to not only welcome her, but share her bio with you. Well, hello, Kerry.
00:01:21
Welcome to is your way in your way podcast. Hi Cassandra. Thank you for having me. Yes, it's my pleasure to have you. I can't wait to dive into this one.
00:01:32
Now, my listeners, you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to read her bio just so you can learn a little bit about Carrie before we get deep into this clutter stuff. Okay? Kerry Thomas holds a bachelor's and master's degree in special education from the University of Florida. After eight years of teaching, she transitioned to professional organizing in 2007 as a certified productive environment specialist.
00:02:02
Since 2014, Carrie has specialized in aiding small business owners with attention deficit disorder, utilizing tailored systems for individual needs. She's passionate about optimizing environments for productivity and inner peace. She has spoken at notable events and workshops. Carrie's expertise extends to efficiently maintaining her own workspace and business. But she leaves time for family hiking, reading and cheering for the Florida gators.
00:02:38
Welcome again, Kerry. You're Florida Lover? I guess I am. I bleed orange and blue, I'll admit it. Okay.
00:02:48
University of Florida. Okay, I see. Right. Well, Carrie, we've read a little bit about your bio, but I'd like to know and my listeners, I want them to hear, tell us a little bit about yourself, a little bit about your backstory before we get started. Sure.
00:03:06
I, as you mentioned, taught. I loved teaching. I've always been organized. My favorite part of teaching, I think, was organizing my classroom and all the charts and graphs and things like that that went along with it. So that's always been a natural ability of mine.
00:03:24
I had the honor and privilege of staying home for years with my sons, raising them. Then, I was ready to go back into the work world. But we had moved, and so I wasn't certified where we were anymore. So I thought, well, what can I do? And a friend of mine had become a professional organizer.
00:03:42
And I remember I was like, I can do that. That's a job. And so I jumped right in. I loved it. And then I quickly found that I liked working with the business side of things and paper and time management and stuff like that.
00:03:58
And then I completely shifted again in 2017. I did my TED talk, and people started reaching out to me and wanting to be coached. And so I said, well, I'm not a coach. And I quickly figured that out, and I took some coaching courses. And now that is such a huge part of what I do.
00:04:18
And it enabled me to take the latest leap, which was to sell everything I own and move oceanfront into this tiny place you see here. And so I know what it's like to declutter. I know what it's like to make those hard decisions of letting go of even family heirlooms, that type of thing. But I'm passionate now about helping people get out of their way if they want to make a big change because of what it did in my life. And I'm very happy here.
00:04:53
Well, I'm going to ask this question. I guess it could be a no brainer, but maybe not. What was your TED talk about? So, it has the same title as what's on the screen, from clutter to clarity. And it was about how our clutter is not just our stuff.
00:05:11
It's not just what you can see when you walk in your house. And it's not just your car not fitting in your garage, that type of thing. It's mental clutter, emotional clutter, spiritual clutter. And then I talked about what to do about it. Okay.
00:05:29
How to move forward. Well, congratulations. Being a TEDx talker, that's honorable, I tell you. Yeah. I want you to be a little more specific, because my next question, which you just answered, is, what is clutter?
00:05:46
Because I believe that, for me, when I think of clutter, I think about my desk, my home clutter. I need to declutter, get my space in. So, for your definition, and as being the expert, what is clutter, really? So I define it as anything that keeps you from navigating your life with ease, to go a little further. It's anything that's clogging your life, anything that's keeping you from living your best life, living out your purpose.
00:06:20
And one of my mentors defines it, and I agree, as clutter being postponed decisions. So we're not making decisions on whether it's a pile of paper or whether it's something deep in our heart that we need to decide. And the people that live the best lives, ultimately clutter free lives make decisions. They make more decisions, they make them faster, and they keep that clutter of all types from piling up. So, as you said, we have the physical stuff, the clutter in our environment.
00:06:57
We have digital clutter, which has become huge in the last few years because we have the email, the downloads, everything, and we can just close the computer and they disappear. Or so we think we have, as I mentioned, mental, emotional, spiritual. There's other little nuances to clutter, but those are the main types. But basically, it's anything that's keeping you from living your best life. Okay, how in the world, when you have your clients or your coaching, where do you start with all of this stuff?
00:07:36
I mean, what's the starting point? Yeah, that's a great question. In my mind, I'm like, oh, my gosh, where do you start? Yeah, I have a couple of answers to that. First of all, there are two schools of thought, and it really depends on your personality.
00:07:52
So some people like to start with the easy wins, gain momentum, gain confidence, things like that. So for those type of people, well, actually everyone, I encourage everyone to declare a clutter free zone in your home. Start there. So that might be your kitchen table if it makes you happy. When your kitchen table is clear, it might be your entryway, and you get all those shoes and purses and backpacks and things out of the entryway.
00:08:19
But whatever it is, pick a space that makes you happy when it's clear, and then stick to it. Tell the people you live with whatever you need to do, and that will sort of flex those decluttering muscles, so to speak, and it'll make you start to feel better in your space, which is huge. Okay? Other people like to tackle, like, the elephant in the room, so to speak, and they like to go after the biggest project first. The good news is, it doesn't really matter where you start, because if you think of the external clutter and the internal, like all those voices in our head, the negative self talk, as you mentioned, the limiting beliefs, all those things that all referred to as internal clutter.
00:09:09
So if you think of the external clutter and the internal clutter as being on a wheel, they each affect the other. So our environment affects how we feel and think internally. We've all experienced it on both ends of the spectrum. You walk in and you just, oh, God, again. Or conversely, you even just clean out a tiny drawer and it feels like you stand taller and you open the drawer and look and close it again.
00:09:40
So the external affects our internal, but then our internal also affects our external. As you see, when you. Sadly, so many people who've had a life event, such as an illness or a death in the family or divorce, or just a period of hardship, their physical environment starts to reflect that. And so it doesn't matter if you start with cleaning out a closet or if you start with working on your mental constructs. And maybe I teach my clients to develop a whole toolkit, everything from journaling to meditation to getting out in nature.
00:10:23
So if you start to work on one, the others will automatically start, get better. So it doesn't matter which type of clutter you start with, but I encourage people to start with what bothers them the most. Small space. And so what I'm hearing is really tackle the external first. Is that what I'm hearing?
00:10:48
The external first, rather than the internal? I think what I'm trying to express is that it doesn't matter, because if you feel that your external and the piles in your home and everything are too much, perhaps if you work on the internal clutter and you start to bolster up your self talk and do things to really care for yourself or work on strategies, whether it's by yourself or with a professional, you're going to automatically have the energy and have the desire and the drive to tackle the physical stuff in your environment. So most people, it's easier and it's less scary to tackle a pile of clothes on the floor than to dive deep into why you've been telling yourself the same negative thing for 32 years. But if you start there, you will see results in the external as well. Okay.
00:11:51
Now, the internal to me would be, of course, more difficult. So you talk to a client, I don't know how you start the process, because I'm sure they're coming to you from clutter to clarity. They want clarity, but if they're having internal. You talked about journaling, getting out in nature, what other things? Like, how would you, if I were your client and you were coaching me, and I say, Kerry, I think I want to start with, my thinking, my self imposed barriers, my limiting beliefs that I feel like I'm not qualified to do this or this, how would you handle or what methodology would you use for me as your client?
00:12:43
Well, if you were my client, we actually would do both side by side, simultaneously. Okay.
00:12:52
First of all, I do have a framework. I call it the four f's. So the first thing we do is feel. That's the first thing. So it's basically creating your vision for where you want to be, whether it's next month, five years from now.
00:13:06
And the reason I use the word feel is because we need to tap into how you want to feel in your space, how you want to feel in your life. I want to feel calm. I want to feel empowered. I want to feel confident, whatever that is. Because those feelings, once we can tap into it, that's what we're going to use to drive our actions.
00:13:33
So I start with that whole feel process, the vision where you want to go. And a lot of the internal clutter spills out, so to speak, during that initial coaching and interview process. So that talking with the client and having them write that out for me gives me a really great picture of what's going on, why they're currently stuck, and where they want to go. So that's where we would start. Then my next step, I call it fact find.
00:14:02
So we look at your learning style, because it does matter. That's my teacher background coming into play. We look at just your organizational style, so to speak. Do you want everything nice and perfect, or do you just want to get rid of the big piles? And we do a whole fact finding mission, so to speak.
00:14:25
So we look at certain things, then we formulate the plan. So the third f is formulate after we look at where we want to go, how are you currently operating? Then we make the plan. And so with my clients, we make the plan for the physical space, and that's what they're working on. But then the other times that we meet, that's when we dive into what thoughts are you thinking?
00:14:52
What are you telling yourself? Where do these beliefs come from? That type of thing? And then in my group program, I bring in different experts to speak on all the different topics to put in what I call their toolkit. So we do fun stuff because you never know what's going to work for different people.
00:15:13
So I bring in someone to talk about meditation, we talk about tapping. I do a class on using art as stress relief. And we do it hands on, even though it's on Zoom people, even if it's just coloring. And so there's a lot that goes into it. But to answer your main question, my clients work on it simultaneously.
00:15:35
Their projects for their external world and their internal, their mindset. Okay. Is that part of your four step signature solution program? Yes. Okay.
00:15:50
And is it also part of your frustration to freedom framework. It is part of it, yes. The frustration to freedom framework is much longer, and I dive in. There's actually nine steps, and it can be used for small businesses, business owners, executives, things like that. I use that.
00:16:12
If you don't have. We're not even speaking about your home, so to speak. But everybody, no matter what, everybody starts with their vision. Everybody starts with, how do you want your space to feel? How do you want to feel?
00:16:25
Okay, what does a productive environment feel like, look like for you? Everybody starts there. Okay.
00:16:35
Why is it so hard to get rid of stuff? It's funny because at one time I wanted to clean out my closet, and then I would take this out and I was like, I may want to wear that. No, it seems to be difficult, just as it's difficult internally, because you just didn't start like that. I'm certain how you are internally was a process.
00:17:02
I get a little bit about the external part, but just getting rid of stuff, why is that so hard for people? A few reasons. One is not having a big enough why, so to speak, not having a vision. A lot of people think, well, I should declutter this, right? But maybe they don't really care.
00:17:27
I think of, like, the messy professor type of person that wants a pile of books in their closet. But the other reason is our things have memories, they have energy. They're very emotionally charged. And so if you do want to get rid of things, but you're finding that it's hard, I often suggest having a friend or someone else that can hold up grandma's sweater and say, what about this? And from across the room, you're like, well, no, I don't need that.
00:17:59
Nobody in my family wants that. I feel good about that, going to a donation center. But if you touch it and you feel it and you smell it, possibly all of a sudden it has to stay because of those memories. So the touch and the smell. So that's another reason.
00:18:19
The third reason is people don't practice just making those decisions. We spin in a lot of indecision in a lot of areas of our life, and we're driven many times by fear. And in this case, it would be the fear of, what if I need it again? What if it's more valuable than I realize? What if those type of things.
00:18:48
So I guide people through those questions, do you love it? Are you going to use it? Is it even practical? And I don't suggest that people just wholesale get rid of everything. I mean, if things are important and they're special, then, yes, keep them.
00:19:08
But what I do suggest is, like, let's say, greeting cards or artwork from kids. This is a huge question that I get a lot. I tell people, you can keep whatever you want, but decide on a container, whether it's a box, a trunk, a drawer in your nightstand. You decide where those things are going to live, and then you only keep what fits. And if you add things, you might have to get rid of something old, like magazines or catalogs.
00:19:37
Right. I don't care if you have those in your house, but pick a basket or two baskets, and once they're full, then you have to toss. So that really helps. Knowing that things are going to a good home really helps a lot of people. So just a tiny bit of research on maybe some women's shelters in your area or a church group or.
00:20:01
I have had clients and myself have really good experiences with either giving things away or selling for a very discounted amount and just the joy that comes. I love the stories of when things go to the new home that they're supposed to go to. Okay, let me talk about hoarders. Yes.
00:20:36
And I still believe this, but you're the expert.
00:20:43
When you go into somebody's bedroom and it's just chaotic, isn't it? Chaos internally. When people. It's like you take off your clothes, you throw your clothes on a chair, okay? The next day you throw those pants, then the next day you throw this on the chair.
00:21:11
Why don't people just, when they take it off, just hang it up? Or one day make a decision to decide, I'm going to declutter these clothes here and hang them up. What's going on with individuals like that? You think that's a loaded question. So, first of all, actual hoarders, there is a hoarding scale.
00:21:36
And so people might fall either high or low on the hoarding scale. Hoarding is different. It's an actual diagnosis. It's completely different than chronic disorganization. Many people have what can be labeled as chronic disorganization, where they just, like you mentioned, it never gets done.
00:22:00
It never improves, or it improves, and they quickly slide backwards. So there's a lot that goes into that question of, why don't they? Some people, it's situational, okay? As I mentioned, it's after a death, a divorce, a disease. They all start with D.
00:22:18
It's kind of sad, and you feel like you can't. You don't have the energy or the momentum. So some people, it's situational, and they do really benefit from either a professional helping them, a friend, a loved one, whatever it is, other people, it's simply never learning the skill and never seeing the benefit.
00:22:45
If you took someone who lived in the wilderness their whole life and they'd never brushed their teeth, they would probably fall asleep even once. You brought them into civilization every night without brushing their teeth, even though we think, oh my gosh, it feels so much better and clean and you have to brush your teeth, but you don't know what you don't know. So there are some people who just never learned it. There's a sliver of people that simply don't care. And then there are those people that do care, and they pretend they don't.
00:23:20
That really ties into your subject matter of getting in your way. And I think they're embarrassed. They're paralyzed by that indecision. They're paralyzed by not knowing what to do. And those are people that can really benefit from having an outsider that's non judgmental help them.
00:23:47
Okay, so in reference to this podcast, is your way, in your way. And I talk about people that want to overcome obstacles, mitigate limiting beliefs, self imposed barriers. Do you believe that if individuals, there are some individuals that say, I want to start a business, or I want to be promoted, or these are just things that they believe that will enable them to start living their best life? If they have parts in their house that's cluttered, do you recommend that they declutter and that may give them more clarification on what they need to do, or they just won't seem stuck? You think?
00:24:39
It always helps. Okay. It always helps. Nothing bad can come from decluttering your home or an area in your home. And as I mentioned early on, we've all felt it.
00:24:52
We've all felt that relief and that shift in the energy from clearing out a space or even moving the furniture around. Some of your listeners might be familiar with feng shui, and some of the feng shui principles are in everything, even us, this microphone; everything is made of atoms and energy, and it's all moving. And without going into a whole science lesson or just losing people, it matters. The things in your home matter, the piles that are clogging the areas, they're also clogging your brain, clogging your energetic space. And yeah, it always helps.
00:25:37
Always. Okay. Because I think about, like, when I get up in the morning, I make my bed. It's like if I don't make my bed, it's like I didn't accomplish anything. And it's just neat and it's organized.
00:25:50
Is there something to that? Rather than when you're growing up, your parents say, you better make that bed. What's that about? Well, it sets the tone for your whole day. Okay?
00:26:02
So I can't think of that saying or who said it, but, like, how you do one thing is how you do everything. So having that morning routine and having even a nighttime routine, it just sets the tone for how you're going to do things and how you're going to carry out all the parts of your life. Like, if you imagine two executives and one has a neat or reasonably piled up desk, and the other things fall over and you can't even open the door, and we automatically make an assumption of who is more productive, who is more professional, who's accomplishing more in their life, whether that's right or wrong. But there is a correlation. There's a lot to be said for taking care of the little details.
00:27:01
Okay? I also believe that people need to do what works for them. I truly, truly believe that. I don't believe there's ever a one size fits all, okay? But I do encourage everyone to at least try.
00:27:17
Clean out a closet, see how you feel. See how you feel. Delete 10,000 emails. See how you feel, whatever it is. Okay.
00:27:26
Yeah. Because I think about. I see a lot of, since the pandemic, people have been using Zoom. And you look at their background and you're like, and you shouldn't judge. But if I look at somebody's bookcase and the books aren't straight, they're just all over the place.
00:27:43
They piled on top of each other, then I'm like, wow, I wonder where their head is. And that's being judgmental. Only because I'm a neat freak. I like everything in order. I want this, like this, like that.
00:27:58
So shame on me that I'm like that. But I'm glad you said it just depends on what works for them. If they want the books all over the place rather than straight up and down, then I guess that works for them. Yeah. You have to find that perfect balance to where you're accomplishing your work.
00:28:17
You're not spinning your wheels, you're not losing things. You're not missing meetings or appointments, but you're also enjoying your life. You're able to relax in your home, whether you want to watch tv or read a book or play a game. That's what makes me sad. And that's why I said that clutter is keeping you from navigating your life with ease.
00:28:36
Because the people that can't even get their work done or can't relax in their space. That's why I do what I do, because I don't think anyone should live like that. So those are the questions to ask yourself. And that's why I start with that vision and that feel, well, why is it? So it's kind of like you've worked on a project and you've done just a great work, let me put it like this.
00:29:05
You produced a record and it's a big seller. Things are going well. It's like, wow, I love that song. But yet you've set the bar. So when you set the bar, then the next time you got to make it higher, and you have to make it higher.
00:29:22
So in other words, you sustain it. What you've done or exceed what you've done. And to sustain something sometimes can be hard. So when you want to declutter and you see the clutter piece, how can you sustain that? It's funny, I'm laughing because you led perfectly into my fourth f, which you didn't even realize.
00:29:47
And I was thinking, oh, no, I need to talk about this. So the fourth f is follow through. And there are two components to, and I actually call it that, sustaining your success. There's two things that you need. Need maintenance and accountability.
00:30:03
So I talk to my clients from the very beginning about maintenance. So, for instance, let's use a closet as an example because it's the easiest for everyone to understand. If you do a decluttering of your closet, maybe you just want to make it safe to walk in. Maybe you want to make it beautiful. Whatever it is, right from day one of dedicating the time and effort to do that, you need to ask yourself, what is my maintenance plan?
00:30:30
Am I going to do a deep clean once a month? Am I going to swap out the clothes seasonally? What is your maintenance plan? So whatever you put in place, whether it's for your office, for your home, you need to think from the very beginning, when am I going to come back and revisit this? What's my maintenance plan?
00:30:53
Some businesses, they take two days a year and they make it a fun thing and they do their big decluttering. Then whether it's digital, paper, whatever it is, but they have a plan. Okay, that's part one. Maintenance will help you to sustain. Okay.
00:31:09
Part two is you need accountability. There's study after study that shows the success rate soaring for people who have accountability. It's 67% more likely to keep your goal if you have accountability. So that can be an online friend. It can be an in-person friend.
00:31:29
It can be a professional. If you worked with a professional to get things in place. I have many clients right now that I only talk to, let's say, quarterly or monthly, and I function as their accountability partner. Okay. But you need some form of accountability.
00:31:47
So in order to sustain, because, yeah, we don't want to put in the effort and then come back in six months and everything's worse or the same and think, why did I bother? So you need a maintenance plan and you need accountability. Okay. Yeah. Are you a coach and accountability partner for some of your clients?
00:32:06
And you said, you are one of my favorite things. I like it a lot. Okay. In the next three years, I'd say, what is it that you would like to accomplish and succeed? Like, what's your desired destination with your conquer the chaos?
00:32:26
Wow, that's a good question. Turn the tables on me saying what I do with my clients. Right. So actually, I have been thinking about that. I want to bring on another person more fully into my business.
00:32:43
I've had different assistants and different people. I am starting to now think about how to gently exit out a little bit eventually. So one thing I want to do is bring on someone. Okay. I also want to start working with older people.
00:33:05
And the reason some of my favorite clients have been in their very special people to me. And then this summer, well, my mother passed away, and I stayed at her house all summer and cleaned it out. But one of the things that came up was I found some of her journals. And my mom can be what you call an organized hoarder. Things looked good.
00:33:35
She was a collector. She had a lot of stuff, but every closet, every drawer, under the beds, stuff everywhere. And when I found some of her journals, I didn't realize the extent that it was bothering her, even with what I do. And my sisters and I had spent time over the years going down helping her clean out things, but it was weighing heavily, and she was not living her best life because of the weight and the burden of this clutter that we didn't even realize. And so on the heels of that, I've had just several people come into my world, or I've heard things or heard it on tv where people talk about, well, it's too late.
00:34:22
I'll never get organized. I'm hopeless. Forget it. I can't do it. And I don't want anyone to say that or feel that, okay.
00:34:34
No matter your age, even if you're in the second half of your life. Do the math, whatever that is, over 50, over. It's not too late. And so I have, in the last few months, really developed a passion for working with older people just so that. Just have fun, enjoy your life.
00:34:53
Like, get rid of the junk that's weighing on you. That's, that's, that's. I like that a lot. That's great, Kerry. As we wrap up, you have shared your wisdom and a lot of nuggets, but anything else you'd like to share with the listeners that we've not discussed already that would enable them to start living their best life and enable them to get out of their way.
00:35:26
Because when I looked at the title, and thought about it, how can from clutter to clarity relevant to living your best life? Is your way, in your way.
00:35:43
So I'm just curious, is there something else that you want to share that you have not already in regards to conquering the chaos? Yeah. The first thing that popped in my mind is something that I tell people, and that is when you are decluttering any type, whether it's physical, digital, whatever. Don't just make your piles, keep, donate, toss. Don't just bring in the big garbage bags and start getting rid of stuff that's going to have an immediate result, but it might not be lasting.
00:36:22
So when you declutter, do it with the mindset of, I'm making lasting change. I'm forming new habits, I'm bringing in new energy and new thoughts into my life to make it the way I want. Like intention, being intentional is one of my favorite words. My clients get sick of it. But don't just think of it as, it's not cleaning.
00:36:48
It's not just getting rid of stuff. You're developing new habits and putting those new patterns in place. That's good, developing new habits and use that as a pattern. Like if they continue to do that, what they say for 21 days, they say if you make that a routine, then you're going places because you've been intentional about doing it, and it'll be automatic what you do. Okay, well, Kerry, you have provided so much great information.
00:37:23
You've given me just a different perspective on clutter, even though I say I'm a really neat person, but I am. But I want to be more intentional as I'm working on that. And I do realize when I am decluttered, like my office or my desk, I think better. And I guess that's where the energy comes. It's like, okay, it's like, I have a clean slate and can work on one thing at a time, because if you have it all over the place and you're working on multiple things.
00:37:59
And I don't believe in multitasking. A lot of people believe in multitasking, and I don't. I don't think you will get a lot done, and there may be some people that do, but I don't do a good job with that. I just want to thank you listeners if, in fact, you believe that from clutter to clarity will be a blessing for somebody that, you know, please share this, because this was good stuff here. And I appreciate Kerry's time and, you know, everyone, that on every Wednesday at 01:00 p.m.
00:38:46
Is your way, in your way live. Okay? So I want to thank you again, Kerry. I want to thank my listeners for listening, and I know they got a lot of tidbits and gold nuggets as a result of it. So thank you and God bless you, and bye for now.
00:39:03
I never say bye. I just say bye for now. Yes. Thank you so much. Yes.
