Using Technology to Decrease Food Waste and Your Grocery Bill ft. Jonathan Defoy (FoodHero)

Jonathan Defoy is the Founder and CEO of FoodHero, an app that brings merchants and consumers together to sell surplus food that would otherwise end up in landfill. 

FoodHero bridges the gap between these two groups with its easy-to-use marketplace-based platform. Designed to reduce food waste, the app allows merchants and consumers to save money, while doing their part for the planet. FoodHero is an absolute success here in Quebec, with plans of aggressively expanding across Canada over the coming months. 

On this episode, Jonathan shares how FoodHero can help solve multiple challenges at once: food waste, increasing grocery bills, and slim margins for grocers. We also dive into the potential of technology in promoting sustainability, tips for entrepreneurs including considerations when it comes app development and being resilient in launching businesses, and taking care of your mental and physical self as a competitive advantage. 

Transcript

It is so exciting when we see entrepreneurs leverage technology to solve some of the world’s largest problems. What’s an example of the kinds of problems I am talking about? Food waste. To give you an understanding as to the scope, we are talking about $50 billion worth in Canada and $200 billion wasted in the US annually. On top of that, if food waste was a country, it would be the 3rd largest emitter after China and the US!

Statistics like these are what created an “aha moment” for our next guest: Jonathan Defoy. A seasoned tech entrepreneur, investor and mentor, Jonathan is on a mission to make this world a better place. Jonathan is the Founder and CEO of FoodHero, an app that brings merchants and consumers together to sell surplus food that would otherwise end up in landfill. 

FoodHero bridges the gap between these two groups with its easy-to-use marketplace-based platform. Designed to reduce food waste, the app (already leveraged regularly by more than 100,000 clients!) allows merchants and consumers to save money, while doing their part for the planet. FoodHero is an absolute success here in Quebec, with plans of aggressively expanding across Canada over the coming months. 

On this episode, Jonathan shares how FoodHero can help solve multiple challenges at once: food waste, increasing grocery bills, and slim margins for grocers. We also dive into the potential of technology in promoting sustainability, tips for entrepreneurs including considerations when it comes app development and being resilient in launching businesses and taking care of your mental and physical self as a competitive advantage. 

So, while food waste is such a huge issue in terms of social and environmental impact, Jonathan reminds us of one very important fact: this is a problem that can be addressed in the short term. 

With that, let’s welcome Jonathan to the show!

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[Host: Lauren Scott] Alright, well, I am really excited for today's episode, in part because I think when we think of environmental impact, often there are certain industries that come to mind. For example, the car industry and going electric, or even the fashion industry. But one area that, at least I've been noticing, has been picking up more and more in terms of coverage, and because of the huge scale of it, is certainly that of food waste. And today, we have an expert and a founder of FoodHero joining us to share a little bit more about this space.

Welcome to the show, Jonathan.

[Guest: Jonathan Defoy] Thank you, thank you for having me. 

You just touched on it, but I would love for you to share a little bit more about the scale of food waste. Can you help us wrap our brains around what we are really talking about, whether it's in Canada or North America? Can you just help us understand how big of a problem it really is?

Sure, sure, absolutely. A couple of big numbers. I want to say scary numbers, but it's actually what initiated me to start this business. We'll discuss that a little later, I guess. So, let's start with Canada. Canada's food waste is about $50 billion a year that is wasted. That's true. The whole, I'm going to call it ecosystem, meaning, you know, it starts at the farm. Then transportation is not a big issue, that's pretty much under control nowadays. But then the distributor level, then the grocery level, and then finally, at home because unfortunately, we all end up wasting food at one point or another. So, $50 billion in Canada is the big number. In the US, it's over $200 billion USD. So, it's an insanely big number. And worldwide, it's $1 trillion US dollars that is wasted every year. So huge numbers. Obviously, the other stat that is, I'd say, resonating to help people understand how big of a problem it is, is that if food waste was a country, it'd be the third emitter in the world after China and the US. So roughly 10% of CO2 emissions are due to food waste. That's responsible for it. So, it's huge. It's huge. And fortunately, this issue or this huge problem has had quite good coverage in the last couple of years. And that's because it can be addressed. I think that's one of the reasons. And fortunately, more and more is done every day. So, it's one of those big problems that I believe we can tackle down the road, and not in 20 years or 50 years, but potentially in the next 5 to 10 years. So that's quite motivating as well for us.

That's such an important nuance because we've had guests from all different industries, and some are at the very beginning stages of, for example, sustainable aviation fuel. We know it's coming for airplanes, but it's X number of years away. And this is something we can all tackle right now. And so, you founded a business based on this very principle of keeping food waste out of landfills, and you did so by creating FoodHero. So, can you speak about how that came about, creating the company, and then what your business model is, just so everybody understands that a little bit more?

Sure. So, the story started already 8 years ago, in 2016. I remember it was March 2016, and it pretty much started because I'd been exposed to those big numbers that I just told you about. I remember I opened the TV on a Saturday or Sunday morning, and I stumbled upon that documentary about food waste. And they were discussing those huge numbers, and instantly I got like the urge. I was like, okay, this is it. I was, at the time, I already had my own company. I was involved in a tech business as a founder, and I was about to sell it. So, I was looking for my next adventure. It was very important for me at that moment that if I were to jump back in right away and start another company, I wanted to have a positive social impact. So just everything happened in a flash, and pretty much I remembered instantly, I saw the name, you know, the brand "FoodHero." I went online very quickly after that, and I bought it. It's quite expensive at the time because somebody had it. So step one: getting that URL for me. It's really structuring, getting the brand, because then it goes from an idea to a project, and then I get excited, and I start working on it for real, as opposed to just thinking about it. 

So, that's how it all started in terms of business model and what part of the overall big food waste issue we're tackling at FoodHero. So, I mentioned earlier, you know, think about it from where the food originates to where it ultimately ends, its life cycle. So it starts at the farm, then it's obviously moved from the farms (and when I say 'farms, I'm not just talking about fruits and veggies, but also meat and fish—it's the original source of where the food is produced), and then it's transported to distributors, and then from distributors to grocery stores, and then we end up buying it, online or in person in the store.

The part that FoodHero does is the grocery part. The reason why we went for that is because, in percentage, it's not necessarily a huge that's wasted, but in volume, it's very big. So, from the get-go, I was going for the volume because I really wanted to make a real difference, not be like a greenwashing solution. There are some, a lot of greenwashing solutions out there, unfortunately. So, in our case, FoodHero is a B2B to C marketplace and in the form of a mobile application. So, what it means is, on one end, we have the supply that's coming from grocery stores, and on the other end, the demand comes from consumers, mostly (and I mean some restaurants are buying, some small businesses, but it's mostly consumers). So, we're there in the middle that makes it possible to match this supply with this demand, and we're offering very important discounts to consumers for saving this food because it's literally what's happening there: it's surplus inventory, it's unsold, it's really food that will most probably, at that time, be lost. A part of it could be donated, but it's likely that it will be lost and that’s when we intervene.

It's such a smart business model and it really is a win-win-win, I guess, because oftentimes when we think we're bringing in a more sustainable model, sometimes we think it's at the detriment of the different stakeholders. But at the very heart of FoodHero is, yes, the environmental side, but you're also thinking about touched on the social impact and that, I think, has two key stakeholders: there's certainly merchants and also the consumers. So, I would love to start with the consumer side because we're seeing prices skyrocket right now for the price of food, and FoodeHero really has a different angle of helping how to make food more accessible. So can you speak to that piece because it sounds like the social impact was really at the core of what you wanted to accomplish here?"

Sure, absolutely! But before I even speak about the consumers, I want to say this: it's actually a win-win-win-win-win—five times. So, number one obviously is the consumer, number two is the merchants, number three is the planet (it's not necessarily in order, but of course, the planet), and then number four is the governments because we're generating money with, literally, I don't want to say out of thin air, but from merchandise that was lost. So, they're generating taxes on that. And number five is us, FoodHero. I mean, we're a Montreal company, we're growing fast, we're creating jobs. So yeah, it's really a win for a lot of stakeholders.

Now for the consumers, if they know that when they're buying food on FoodHero, they're doing their part for the environment, but also— and I would say it's very important especially in this inflation era that we're unfortunately living in and it's been like that for a good two years now— so we are offering steep discounts: 30%, 40%, 50% up to 60% off. And it's also on food that people want and love. So, we are not— our business model is really to replicate the best ordering food apps, like Uber Eats or Instacart or any other, even like the apps from the grocers themselves. So, we have a direct connection to their catalog, and it's not like a surprise bag or a mystery bag or, you know, buying something you don't know what you're going to get and unfortunately a good portion of it will probably be thrown away anyway. So, you know, we're pretty strong on meat, on fish, items that are very expensive and it's significant for consumers to save on those items, prepared meals, dairy. So, you can also almost make a complete grocery shopping on the app itself.

Fantastic! And then on that flip side for merchants, probably the main advantage is that they are now, as you mentioned, getting revenue off of what would have been waste for them. So that sounds like a whole different additional revenue stream.

Exactly! They're (in their jargon and their legal), they call it shrink - that's the term in the industry. It's basically merchandise that you obviously paid full price for, and for one reason or another, you're going to be losing completely your money on it. So absolutely, it's a way to monetize what would be completely lost otherwise. It's a very good revenue stream for them because it's an industry operating on thin margins. Sometimes people do forget that. So, they're not, you know, they're not artificially increasing prices because they want to do that. It's a competitive industry with very low margins. So, FoodHero for them becomes a very important partnership because it's basically, it's bottom line that we're giving them back. It's not sales, it's profit. So yes, our participating stores that are rigorous in the operation of the solution are very happy about the results.

And on the topic of merchants, certainly, 2020 was a wild time for grocers. So, did that timeframe impact FoodHero at all and do you still feel any of those impacts? 

The answer is yes and yes. Four years ago was an extremely difficult time for us, if we remember, you know, it was pretty much almost the end of the world when the pandemic started. And what happened specifically to us is that we launched in May 2019. So, we had launched our service a little less than a year prior to the start of the pandemic. So, really, we started to take off in the fall of 2019, where at that moment we had approximately 200 stores that were coming online, onboarding on our platform. So, we were just getting that hockey stick that all entrepreneurs are looking for, the Holy Grail of starting a company. So we were there, things were going very well, our stores were putting more and more inventory, and consumers were there, and we had a lot of media attention. And then, boom, the pandemic started. So we lost 75% of our revenues overnight, literally overnight, from March 12th to March 13th or something like that. So, and the main reason was that they had other super, obviously urgent, unforeseen, you know, unplanned issues to deal with. So, in the end, the 25% that we had basically were the grocery stores that had been with us for more than like two months or you know, five weeks. It was our best stores that had been online for, you know, I don't know, four, five, six, seven, eight months. So, they knew how to operate it, they knew it was very profitable for them. So, they just kept following the food routine to ensure that we had inventory. But yes, it's been extremely difficult for us.

And to some extent, we're still recuperating from that. Obviously, over the years, we've managed to overcome it, but I'd say we lost like two, three years because of that. Originally, the contracts that we had signed with Sobeys and Metro back in 2019 were for national deployment. By the beginning of 2020, we were planning for that. The business was already proven, so it completely stalled things for a good two years, I would say. Finally, three, four years later, we're just at the point where we're catching up with our original business plan. In the next two, three months, it's kind of big news, a big announcement. It's been in the media quite a lot recently. We're finally going to be deploying in the rest of Canada. Right now, we have close to 500 stores in Quebec. Those are IGA, Metros, Tradition, Rachelle Bery, and others, all the stores owned by Metro.

In the upcoming two, three months, we're going to have something like 500-600 stores in the rest of Canada. Coast to coast, it's obviously a big thing for us. We've been working extremely hard in the last year or so, I would say, because it requires a lot of preparation, a massive deployment like that in a short period of time. It's just something that we've been waiting for for like three, four years. So, you know, finally, finally, finally, we're very excited about it.

But yes, the pandemic has been very hard. We managed to survive. It's been very difficult, from March to September 2020. Then, we started to see a little bit more positivity coming back, adding more stores and so on. Of course, in all honesty, we're not absolutely happy about it, but for the last two years, with inflation, it's all been challenging because we're offering food at big discounts, and it's much needed. It's needed for almost everybody now. It might have been a bit more niche when we launched it, but now it's absolutely mainstream. That's where we are now.

It's certainly top of mind, and it's beautiful to see the resilience, I think, of your organization through that time. Part of it, I think, is the adoption through your app, which is very user-friendly and really positions FoodHero at the intersection of sustainability and technology. I would love your approach as someone who has been deep in the tech space over the years. What role do you think technology is going to play in our economy's overall transition towards more sustainable solutions?

I'm going to say, not even extremely important, it's more than that, it's going to be critical. Of course, I might be a little biased because I've been a tech guy for the past 20-25 years, pretty much. I'm not a programmer myself, by the way, I'm a business guy with a marketing management background, but I did study a bit during my studies. So, bottom line is, I'm a tech guy who's pro-tech. Obviously, I'm not going as far as saying, 'Oh, tech will solve everything,' no. But I think, you know, of all the big problems that we have to deal with on this planet at this very moment and for probably unfortunately the foreseeable future, tech is going to be critical.

Especially for sustainability and all that, like AI has been all over the place for the last year and a half. I'm following that very closely, obviously. I don't want to talk about the risks because there are some risks, but if you take it purely as a business tool, as a very powerful optimization tool, it's going to be wonderful because you can do so much with it. This super brainpower can absolutely help us solve issues that human brains, even thousands of human brains, couldn't do. So, yeah, tech is critical for sure, being part of that solution.

And we do have a lot of our listeners of the Resilience Report who are entrepreneurs, and I'm wondering if you have any feedback or advice for those who are maybe starting a business and are thinking of including an app as part of that. Clearly, it was maybe the first step for creating FoodHero, that you knew you wanted to have an app to be that bridge. Any guidance you can give our listeners who are thinking about exploring that as part of their overall offering?

Sure, sure, absolutely. Yes, I love giving a little advice to entrepreneurs or future entrepreneurs. So, it really depends, it's like a case-by-case basis, literally. If you're looking at an existing business, for example, you need a business reason, like really a commercial reason, to decide to invest in an app. Don't do it because it's cool, don't do it because you imagine you need it. You will need to do your own work very seriously and totally, making sure that there's value there for your clients, your customers.

So, if there's a need, if there's value, if you're an established business (by established, I mean you're not starting up, your company already has something, you probably have some revenues, maybe you're not profitable yet, but you are a company, not just a project or an idea at this point), my recommendation is really make sure you're answering a need. Depending on if you're a tech company or not, but even if you are a tech company and you do determine that you need an app, then I would probably outsource it because it will be faster, cheaper, better.

There are firms out there that only build apps, so they know how to build apps that are good. It's not great to build an app internally unless you have a lot of technical expertise. If you're an established company or not, expect it to be more expensive, take longer, and more difficult because it's a product. It's a product, so it's different in terms of marketing, it's different strategies too. It's much more difficult to promote an app than it is to promote, let's say, a transactional website because you have fewer possibilities, but you have a more captive audience if you manage to do it.

Always remember as well that I saw a study a couple of years ago, a company that was already started, but I think the number was seven or eight. People have hundreds of apps on their phones, but they only use like seven, eight, maybe ten on a regular basis. Make sure that you're going to be one of those; otherwise, it might be difficult. Just expect, established business or not, expect it to be more expensive, take longer, more difficult because once it's built, you need iOS, you need Android anyway.

You're going to need a website, and anyway, you're going to need to market it. The key for marketing apps is number one, downloads, and you pretty much need to pay for every download one way or another. At the end of the day, it's not cheap, and then you need those downloads to convert into revenue, into customers. It's not an easy business; it's a wonderful business, but I just want to make it clear, it's not an easy business for sure.

Well, thank you for being so honest and transparent. I think that's what everybody needs as they're embarking on their respective journeys. I'm so glad that FoodHero was able to launch the app and build to where you are now. You maybe mentioned this being what you're most excited about right now, but correct me if I'm wrong, is it this expansion to the rest of Canada or are there other projects on the go that you want to share that you're really excited about right now?

Yes, but unfortunately, I can't talk about those secret projects yet. We will be launching very exciting stuff, besides the Canadian massive deployment in the next couple of months. But we're still in stealth mode as we say as entrepreneurs. So, we're working on very exciting stuff. But stay tuned.

Did you always know that you wanted to be an entrepreneur? Because you mentioned earlier on that when you were just on the cusp of creating FoodHero, you were getting ready to sell a previous business. Is this something that's always been in your DNA or did it evolve over the years?

The answer is yes, I probably knew I was going to be an entrepreneur, although I contemplated different options while in high school. Probably at the age of like 9 or 10, for our younger audience, there was a thing back in those days called being a paperboy. So, I basically was delivering newspapers, and I started that at like 9 years old, 8 or 10. I don't remember exactly, but I was pretty young. It was a very demanding job because you had to get out of bed at like 5:30 a.m., and the winters were pretty crazy back then. I was a first paper boy. We just got this year, and I'm not complaining, but it's a rainy, cold, huge snowstorm. Like, there's no excuse; you got to be up and go deliver those newspapers very early in the morning.

But, in the end, it was a very good thing, call it a job. It was very good. It was like the thing that when you were at that age, you were literally rich compared to your friends. And was it good? It was very demanding. So, it started there. And then, yeah, I mean, it's in my DNA for sure. But I could have done something else. I don't necessarily want to say that it's in that some people don't have it because I think everybody has the potential to have it. Maybe for some people it's a bit more natural or they get that inspiration or message or dream at a younger age. But it's not for everybody. It's definitely not for everybody. But I don't want to constrain it to all the lucky people that have it in their DNA.

It's essentially like the successful businesses out there. They start from a passion. So, maybe you can be passionate about being an entrepreneur, being in business. I do believe there might be something like that. But if you have a passion that you can make a commercial enterprise, then you have the potential to become an entrepreneur at pretty much any age. 

On the topic of passion and that interest, if we have listeners who are entrepreneurs, we also have a lot of business leaders who tune in, who are maybe mid-career and thinking about doing an important transition towards something that's more aligned with their values and more focused on social or environmental impact. Do you have any advice about making that transition?

Sure. I do encourage you to do it. But just be absolutely warned that it's very difficult, very stressful, and very rare that things will just naturally flow as you plan them. So, it's a tough journey. You can't be focused solely on the destination; you will need to enjoy the journey. It's a marathon; it's not a sprint. So, you need to love the run for a long period of time, that's for sure.

My advice would be, again, like FoodHero - it's my fifth company. I had like two really good successes. And, you know, just to illustrate how difficult it is, my first success was my first company. I started just right after I finished my university degree. So, I've enjoyed success in my first company. Then, I've had two failures, like two very, very, very big failures, then one thing that did okay just before I started FoodHero, and then I have FoodHero, which will be my biggest success in my career so far.

So, even when you're experienced, there's one thing that you cannot do is not do your own work. And when I say, 'own work,' I'm specifically referring to market studies. Like, you need to spend time understanding what you're trying to address as a need. You need to make sure it's a need. You need to make sure there's a market for it; you know, there are customers out there that are feeling that pain that you want to relieve them from.

So, and I said, passion is extremely important. It's extremely important. But don't fall in love with your project or your company. My two failures, it was mainly due to that—mainly due to the fact that I didn't do my own work and I did fall in love with my businesses. And if you do that, you're blind, and you're not going to see the signals that something is not working.

So, that is the answer to the—I'd say the first part of the question, which is about starting a company in general. Now, specifically, sustainability companies, please, please, please make sure you have a business model. Make sure the numbers work. It's part of your own work. The numbers must work in this world. You won't be able to make a dent or save the world if you don't have a viable business model. So that's extremely, extremely, extremely important.

Of course, depending on what you're launching. I mean, I'm talking here mostly for people that are contemplating, like, I want to make a huge thing and, you know, I will need capital and so on and so forth. But also, like, it's perfectly fine and great to just become a consultant and have your own consulting firm. You start like that, and you can add people. But still, I mean, what are you selling? What expertise are you selling? Do you have customers? Can you get them easily to get the wheels in motionSo, very, very important to have a business model. Otherwise, unfortunately, this world still runs on money and dreams won't do it alone, especially in the sustainability world where people are going really for the cause, the mission, and it's great. But you'll need to eat; you'll need to pay your employees, your whatever, all the expenses that you're going to be occurring as an organization.

Amazing advice. And I think it is so important; sometimes, we do get wrapped up on what we want to accomplish. But at the end of the day, you still need to build up the resources to accomplish that and to take care of yourself as a resource too. You're mentioning it's a marathon and not a sprint. Have you, over the years of those five companies, found ways to kind of replenish and recharge your own energy as a founder and entrepreneur so that you can continue to come back and recommit to the business?

Oh, sure, absolutely. Personally, I'm very—like, I'm living a very healthy lifestyle. It's been like that for at least 10, 12 years. So, I caught on to that trend back then. So, of course, I partied, like pretty much everybody, but I'm really big on exercise, sleep, eating well, making sure that my body—like, cleaning myself of poisons that are out there, and alcohol is one, so I still drink occasionally, but for example, I do count my drinks because I have a drink journal about that for a few years now.

Just because it's not good; it's fun, but it's not good. It's an example; I'm careful with caffeine as well; it disrupts sleep. So yes, I take a coffee or two in the morning, but then I stop there. So, you know, kind of classic stuff that a lot of people are talking about online, but it's so true. If you're not physically healthy, your mind won't be, and you won't be able to go through that journey and win the game that you are playing with your life.

And it won't be fun; you will probably regret it. So, it's a serious thing. It's very, very important to take care; you know, be healthy as an entrepreneur. And in my case, I do push the envelope quite a bit, so I'm really big on biohacking and all the gadgets out there. Well, I mean, it's expensive, but in my case, I love those; you know, trying those things. So, yeah, I'm really, really, really, really big on living a healthy lifestyle.

The other thing that not a lot of people say but that I am experiencing myself, number one, I'm antisocial media. Like, big-time. And it's been the case for five, six years; the main reason is, as a tech guy very often in the Silicon Valley, and I was—I've been exposed to social media very early, you know, when it started, and I know it's like, it's mind manipulation. 

And that was my next point. Be very careful and, you know, especially now in the last couple of years, it's been—you know, tough years, let's put it this way. Don't expose yourself to negative news and negative stuff all the time, and, you know, you're going to end up in some rabbit holes, and it's just bad. So, me, and back to like reading books, like I said, I'm not on social media; okay, well, I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on YouTube, but not the rest. So, I try to control what kind of content I'm exposing myself to.

So, I think it's extremely important for entrepreneurs and future entrepreneurs; we're in a world; it wasn't like that 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago now, unfortunately, hopefully, it's just a tough patch and we'll pass through it, but a lot of negativity out there. And like, and do the test; like, you know, go a week without exposing yourself to social media and negativity, and you'll see a massive, massive difference in your life. So, I think that's something to be considering very, very seriously because, as an entrepreneur, you need all your resources; you need the best version of yourself to show up, you know, day after day after day after day after day, to have a chance. It's a very competitive world; it's not easy. It's doable, but it's not easy.

Yeah, well, thank you for sharing that about just us needing to take care of ourselves mentally and physically along the journey just to make sure you're operating at 100%; you're right. It is a competitive advantage if you can take care of yourself in that way because you're going to be able to show up that much better.

Well, I'm glad that you've been doing that because it's allowed you to show up so well with FoodHero. If our listeners want to learn more or download the app and especially, I guess, check out everything you're doing with these secret new launches or programs coming up, where would be the best place for them to follow along?

Well, our website; you know, kind of the old way to do things, so foodhero.com. Obviously, the app; you can download it on the App Store if you have an iPhone or Google Play Store if you have an Android. And then, yes, the company's on social media. Personally, I'm just posting on LinkedIn when it matters. So, if you want to follow me personally, it would be on LinkedIn. But yeah, on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, what else? All of them. 

For the announcements that we're going to make, we're going to make some noise because they're relatively big things that we're working on and that will be coming up with. So, we will most likely be in traditional media as well.

So exciting. Well, thank you so much for joining us today, sharing more information about food waste, and what you're doing. And we like to end every episode with the same question, which is what do you think it will take for businesses and leaders to be resilient going forward?

Yeah, that's a really, really good one. Really good one. So, I'm going to try to come up with original answers here because I already touched on staying healthy mentally, physically, and emotionally. So, my recommendation is to learn about human nature, study human nature. That's something I've been doing recently, and I wish I would have done that 20 years ago. So, I'm reading psychology books now, skimming through psychology books, using ChatGPT to ask questions on that topic because it refers also to social media that I mentioned.

It's ridiculous how human beings can be manipulated, but when you understand how it works first, you're going to be protecting yourself. Number two, you will be more successful in your adventures because at the end of the day, commercial enterprises are successful when they answer human needs and they understand all human brains are bringing. So, understanding human nature as a general topic is very important."

I'm referring to things about biases, you know, not like necessarily like the super heavy expert type of stuff, just the basic stuff. So, that's one. And two, I mentioned it earlier, be very careful to not expose yourself to negative stuff, like as much as you can. If you need to be like me, I still need to be aware of what's going on in the world, but I'm giving myself some sort of space where, you know, just allowing a couple of minutes a day or so because like right now, I think it's a big, big, big competitive advantage, a big differentiator if you stay in a positive mindset and you're exposing yourself to positive stuff as opposed to the contrary. You will be living a much better life, and you will be performing much more as well. Like, you'll be more resilient, for sure. 

Well, thank you for being part of that positive news out there. I think what you're doing and what you've created is so inspiring. So, thank you for joining us today, and thank you for everything that you're bringing to the world.

Thank you; thank you for having me.