Sustainable Mattresses: A Much Needed Wake Up Call ft. Christian Schmidt (Black Sheep Mattress Co.)

Black Sheep Mattress Co. began with a belief that there was a more sustainable and beneficial way to make and sell mattresses. Developed from a growing awareness of the negative health and environmental impacts of conventional mattress manufacturing, the company has delivered an artisanal approach to the industry for over 10 years. Over this time, Black Sheep Mattress Co. has grown in their knowledge of quality, sustainability and craftsmanship, continuously expanding their products and services to better meet their customers’ sleep needs.

On this episode, we are joined by their Founder, Christian Schmidt. Together with host Lauren Scott, we explore how Black Sheep Mattress Co. is disrupting the standard mattress industry with non-toxic, natural, and organic products. We discuss how they work with local suppliers on key sustainability considerations, their innovative mattress recycling program, tips on how you can extend the life of your mattress, and some of their incredible upcycling work. As a bonus, Christian even shares some advice for our entrepreneur listeners thinking about expanding geographically. 

After this episode with Christian, we promise that you will be wide awake when it comes to sustainable mattresses!

Transcript

There are so many industries that are top of mind when it comes to sustainability: cars, clothes, energy storage, beauty products and more.

But there is one area that, despite spending ideally 8 hours per day on it, I had never really given much thought to: my mattress. Maybe it’s because we only get a new one (on average) every 7-10 years, but it had never really been top of mind for me!

I began digging in for both myself and of course you, our Resilience Reporters, and quickly found that the scale of waste from mattresses is a huge problem AND that most of our mattresses are actually filled with synthetic materials and chemicals. 

Which is why I am so excited to bring you this next episode with the Founder of Black Sheep Mattress Co., Christian Schmidt. 

The company itself began with a belief that there was a more sustainable and beneficial way to make and sell mattresses. Developed from a growing awareness of the negative health and environmental impacts of conventional mattress manufacturing, the company has delivered an artisanal approach to the industry for over 10 years. Over this time, Black Sheep Mattress Co. has grown in their knowledge of quality, sustainability and craftsmanship, continuously expanding their products and services to better meet their customers’ sleep needs.

On this week’s episode, we're going to explore how Black Sheep Mattress Co. is disrupting the standard mattress industry with non-toxic, natural, and organic products. We discuss how they work with local suppliers on key sustainability considerations, their innovative mattress recycling program, tips on how you can extend the life of your mattress, and some of their incredible upcycling work. As a bonus, Christian even shares some advice for our entrepreneur listeners thinking about expanding geographically. 

After this episode with Christian, I promise that you will be wide awake when it comes to sustainable mattresses!

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[Host: Lauren Scott] Welcome back to another episode of The Resilience Report. Today, we're going to be talking about something that literally hits close to home for many of us. Our listeners know I'm based in Quebec, Canada, and there's a very unusual tradition in this province where we actually have an official Moving Day on July 1st. While this might sound unrelated to environment and sustainability, this past July 1st, I was walking around and was struck by the number of mattresses on the street. 

When you're moving out, it might be an opportunity to change your mattress. I think there's probably a lot of people who just leave it behind. I was really struck by how much this was taking up space and being wasted that particular day. So, I reached out to a company that I saw was doing some really innovative things in the space. With that, we have the owner of Black Sheep Mattress Company, Christian Schmidt. So, welcome to the show, Christian.

[Guest: Christian Schmidt] Thanks for having us. You have a great podcast.

Thank you very much. I would love for you to expand a little more on the scale of waste for mattresses because my experience is very anecdotal. I was walking around and I saw a lot, but the more I thought about it, it’s probably a real issue in terms of scale. Could you speak to that a little more?

For sure. Your situation's unique. I don't think people see it all at once. Usually, it's subtle; you see one here or there and don't get a sense of the scope. The numbers change depending on where you look, but some of the numbers I've seen indicate about 20 million mattresses every year go to the garbage or are recycled in the US. But then you see numbers of the lifespan of a mattress being 7 to 10 years, which brings it up to about 30 or 40 million. In the Canadian context, assuming similar behavior and lifespan, that's about 2 to 4 million mattresses every year. If you think about that for a second, a mattress is a big object. Four million mattresses just for Canada is a huge amount of space. They're big and don't compress well, so in landfills, they're resistant to breaking down both the materials and due to their purpose. It’s really a major challenge taking up so much space, and the springs can get tangled up in machinery, which is another challenge. That's why some landfills don't want to touch them.

Really interesting. I know in Montreal, you have to go to a special eco center, which makes sense. Still within the environmental theme, we've had previous episodes talking about chemicals in our cleaning products or beauty products. I have never really thought of chemicals in my mattress, but the more I researched, I found out traditional mattresses actually have quite a bit of toxic chemicals. Can you speak to the history there and what the current landscape looks like?

Going back quite a few years, most mattresses would have been made from cotton and wool. But now, moving to synthetics, it's quite a bit easier and cheaper to make a mattress. That's part of the reason: economy of scale and consistency in terms of knowing what the manufacturer is working with. Versus natural products, it’s a little bit harder and faster. And also it’s just a lot faster; a lot of glues are used in new mattresses to glue the different layers together, so you don't need as much skill for the person who's doing the assembly. If you're racing towards quicker, faster, cheaper—you know, cheaper being a big piece too—you compromise on the build quality of the product at some point. It’s unfortunate. I'm a big fan of the precautionary principle, which is if we don't know, let's make sure we test everything. We can make a great mattress without having to use synthetics and chemicals, where we don't know the long-term effect necessarily.

And I was just thinking: is it worse with these mattresses that you see on social media, where people just unpack this small box and it explodes into a mattress? I can't imagine it's the most natural material in there.

No, definitely not. There might be one or two experimenting in that. When those came out probably about five or 10 years ago, it was attractive. These are a great way to ship a product that's normally unwieldy and difficult. Our suppliers were telling us not to think about it, because it can compromise the longevity. If you compress something down from a 12-inch mattress to half an inch, there can be aftereffects of that. Natural materials typically won't compress down like that. You're talking about some sort of foams that will spring back. Convenience versus what is probably the best thing to do.

I think awareness is the first part of that. Admittedly, I had not really thought of mattresses that much until getting ready for this episode. The more I researched Black Sheep Mattress Company, I found what you're doing is really disruptive in the space in terms of leveraging non-toxic, organic materials. Could you speak to why you started that process and the transition in materials used during this time?

About 15 years ago, I was shopping for a mattress. I don't always do this, but I have an interest in natural and sustainable options. I was looking for something in that area and couldn't find many options. That's what started the process for me. It seemed like it should be a reasonable option. I went down the rabbit hole of research, talking to different people, and here we are. We never really used non-sustainable materials. This has always been a major driver for us. That's what motivates me. The team itself is very motivated by what we do and that has been the really fun part for me over the past 5-10 years or so. They might not say it every day, but it's a major motivator and gets us out of bed in the morning, doing the right thing.

And I know that a lot of us, myself included, who care about lowering our environmental footprint also care about animal welfare. In shifting to natural products, you're leveraging wool as one of the products going into your mattresses. How do you select your suppliers to ensure that consideration is taken into account?

It's about relationships and trust. It's a lot of work upfront: vetting, having conversations, visiting, and making sure we're aligned in our values. Animal welfare is huge for us too. For wool, there are less than ideal practices still being done. We seek out those who align with what we want. Animal welfare is part of their mission. We keep the conversation going continually. Once you have those relationships, it's not too bad. Developing them initially is a bit of work, for sure.

I love that broader stakeholder engagement. The more you can work together, the better solutions we will find. When we think of natural and non-toxic, we often talk about things being local. This is something I hadn’t thought about until researching for this episode. I work in the tech space, and there are many conversations about things being produced in Asia and the impacts of shipping. But mattresses might be different. Are mattresses typically produced locally? I can't imagine them coming over by boat or plane.

I don't think most people think about where mattresses are made. From what I know, many are made fairly locally. If you're in Ontario, chances are your mattress was made in Ontario. If you're in Alberta, it was made in Alberta. That being said, a lot of the components that go into making the mattress, like springs or foam, are brought in from abroad. So those will have a larger footprint. 

With roll-pack technology, the ability to make mattresses smaller, you’re seeing more brought in from a distance. Again, not necessarily a bad thing, but the ecological footprint of transportation is growing.

In terms of the different initiatives with Black Sheep Mattress Company, what struck me was that you have a recycling partnership. This is unique because people don’t necessarily know what to do with their mattresses. Could you speak to the recycling program in Calgary and for listeners outside Calgary, what they could do when it’s the end of life for their mattress?

When we started, there was nothing in Calgary for recycling or anyone we could work with. We briefly looked into doing something ourselves, but it’s a whole industry. We work with Re-Matt in Calgary. There’s a great organization in Edmonton and a few in Vancouver. They break down the mattress into components: springs, metal, foam, wood from the box spring. These go on to a second life, like underpad for flooring or wood chips for landscaping. For those outside of Calgary, it’s tough. Smaller municipalities might not have the economy to set this up, so they partner with larger cities. It’s about doing the homework online and seeing what comes up locally. Our partnership with Re-Matt has been fantastic. It feels better knowing it’s not going to the landfill.

I think that is a great place to start. I admittedly will be looking into this myself! In terms of the lifespan of the product, the average is maybe seven to 10 years. When we think about Reduce, Reuse, Recycle, the first part is reduce, which is maybe not always the best for growing sales. But if we as consumers want to extend the life cycle of our product, what would you recommend?

If it's something you already have, a good foundation can help. A lot of times, that’s an issue. A good foundation can buy you more time. We recommend slats as they are solid and breathable. It depends on the quality of the mattress, which is hard for consumers to know despite marketing. Talk to whoever you’re buying from. Ideally, they’re building for 20 years – that is what we try to do. Normal firmness for a normal person is very reasonable. Seven to 10 years is a rough estimate, but it should last longer with a good foundation and mattress.

And then beyond the recycling, you also have interesting upcycling initiatives. Could you explain the difference between recycling and upcycling and the programs you have in place for upcycling?

For us, upcycling would be, for example, wool batting. If it’s not the correct size for a mattress, we take a strip off the sides. That’s perfectly good wool, but what do we do with it? We don’t want to throw it out because it increases costs, and it’s a shame. We try to find ways to reuse it, like making dryer balls or turning it into duvets with another company. We use scrap fabric to make bags for duvets or pillows. Upcycling is fun and helps make something new and desirable while looking good.

It’s got to be fun to be creative and have partners who can help transform materials.

Yes, it's win-win for everybody.

One of your partners is Bullfrog Power. Could you share who they are, what they do, and how that partnership came to be?

We’ve been working with them for quite a while. They ensure that new clean energy sources like wind, solar, and low-impact hydro projects are put on the grid in the amount we’re using. They ensure renewable energy coming online on our behalf. We’ve been working with them for 10 or 12 years now. It’s that full life cycle analysis to ensure everything is sustainable and renewable. They’ve been great to work with. There are other options now, but I highly recommend them.

Are you working on any specific projects right now that you're excited about and can share with our listeners?

I think we're always working on something. We're a small team of 10 people, so as soon as we get somewhere, it’s exciting. Poofs are in development, which are little cushions. We’ve done a few, and they look good. Again trying to – if it works – use materials that don’t already have a home.

We've also been talking about pet beds, which our customers would like. It's challenging to do just the way we're set up because we make every mattress to order. Smaller items like that almost have to be done in batches. We're getting there, experimenting more and more. It's fun, and ideas often come from customers.

As a dog owner, I love that idea. Was there a specific moment that made you want to take sustainability into consideration for your career?

There were two points. One was when I was a kid and I must have been watching some nature show, because I got my head wrapped around the idea of extinction, which blew my mind. The second was after my first degree, when I was reading a lot and came across climate change and finite resources. I applied and was accepted to do a Master's in sustainability science in Sweden. That’s how the whole thing unfolded. With Black Sheep, the idea was to build a business with sustainability as a core tenant in normal society. So far, so good.

You did your studies in Sweden, and we're seeing certain regulations advancing faster in Europe than in Canada. Are you seeing the same thing from consumer interest in more sustainable products?

Definitely. People don’t think about everything on their own – which is so reasonable. When they do, the light bulb comes on, and they’re interested. People are busy, and it's hard to be on top of everything. Opening the store in Toronto about a year ago, we noticed a different reaction from people. In Calgary, we’re in an industrial part of town, while in Toronto, people walk by more. It’s fun seeing the different reactions. Both cities have great customer bases, but Toronto is building.

I love that you talked about that expansion, because I think it is an important part of your journey. For our entrepreneurial listeners, what would you recommend as the first steps before taking that leap?

I recommend something we didn't do: a pop-up. For us, it’s a long life cycle to find customers (6-12 months). The thought of a three-month pop-up might not give us enough time to test a new location. Instead, we went all in, found a space, renovated it, and here we are. It was crazy and a ton of work. I love talking to small business owners, so if anyone wants to talk, I’m game. But I would be hesitant. It strains resources. We've been okay, but a lot of that is due to having a strong team. Without that, this would have turned out differently. We didn't hire anyone during this expansion, and it brought complexity and differences between cities. It’s almost like starting over. It's been motivating and exciting, but not easy. Better be ready.

Are you thinking of possibly leveraging that pop-up format for other cities?

Yes, I think we would try a pop-up. If we do another city, we would try a pop-up, though I wonder if it tells us enough. It could work if done correctly. Yeah, we will see!

If our listeners want to keep an eye on where you are popping up, where should they check out to learn more?

Our social media and website. We try to communicate things like that. We have a newsletter. Toronto was a bit of a surprise because we moved quickly and kept it under wraps until it was ready. That’s the easiest way to find out what we're doing.

Thank you so much for sharing today. It made me explore a whole new world, which is crazy considering I spend ideally eight hours on my mattress every single day and have never really thought about it. Thank you for giving us a lot to consider. We like to end every episode with the same question: What do you think it will take for businesses and leaders to be resilient going forward?

Tough question. There’s so much to do in the sustainability space and making our systems resilient. There’s a lot of change coming. Lately, I keep coming back to doing the right thing. We all know what that is, and sometimes it means self-sacrifice or changing the business model. It’s hard on the ego, but it's a North Star for a lot of people. I wouldn’t do it for money or other reasons – I don’t think that is sustainable (in both senses of the word). There's a lot of opportunity. It’s exciting because there's so much to be done, whether you're an existing business or starting new.

Thank you so much, Christian. This has been a great conversation. I appreciate you answering the call when I frantically messaged you on July 1st with the state of mattresses. Thank you for sharing today!

Thank you, Lauren. Thanks for having us.