#86 Interview with Dave Stetzer, Co-Inventor of Stetzer Meter and Plug-In Filters

Dave is one of the original innovators in what is now known as 'dirty electricity' assessment and remediation.  We explore the origins of this space, effects on rats and people with specific information on most harmful frequencies, a little of what Dave learned from working with scientists in Russia, decreased use of asthma medicine and reduced insulin use, how to deploy in your own home, how to create your own whole-house DE filter, and my fantasy next gen DE filtration product.

Transcript

Keith Cutter: 0:00

Hey, I've got a great interview for you today with one of the founders of the dirty electricity space, really, dave Stetzer, who, in conjunction with Dr Martin Graham, developed the Graham Stetzer Microsurge Meter and the Graham Stetzer Dirty Electricity Filter. We're going to talk about what is this weird thing called dirty electricity? Why should I care about it if it just has to do with what's going on in the wires in my home? We're going to talk about how to most successfully deploy this kind of solution within the home. We're going to contrast it with whole house dirty electricity filters and tell you a way that these plug-in filters can be used as a whole house filter in addition to being deployed around the home closest to the offending items.

Keith Cutter: 0:57

We're going to talk about some of his experiences, including with asthmatic children in a school setting and with two different types of diabetics. One is the juvenile diabetic, the type 1 diabetic, insulin dependence and a decreased need for insulin. That's very interesting. Also something called a brittle diabetic and what all of this has to do with dirty electricity. We're going to talk about the biggest dirty electricity offenders in the house, my personal fantasy of a next generation dirty electricity filter and much more. Enjoy this interview with Dave Stetzer, here we go.

Gweneth: 1:58

EMF Remedy is dedicated to helping you understand which electromagnetic threats are present in your home and whether, in the context of your current home, one you're considering for purchase or building a new home with comprehensive protection designed in. Emf Remedy can help you reduce your family's exposure to harmful man-made electromagnetic radiation.

Keith Cutter: 2:20

My guest today is Dave Stetzer. Dave is an IEEE senior member with over 50 years of experience in electronics. He's co-inventor of the Gram-Stetzer filter and microsurge meter. Dave, welcome to the EMF Remedy podcast.

Dave Stetzer: 2:36

Thanks for having me.

Keith Cutter: 2:37

Yeah, this is going to be great. I'd really like to get into kind of an in-depth discussion about dirty electricity and I guess the first question I would ask is you know you are the co-inventor of the microsurge meter, which is an assessment tool to make an easy first discovery of what the levels of dirty electricity are in a home environment, and then also a filter that helps to address that. Why did you? What possessed you to develop those things?

Dave Stetzer: 3:14

Well, martin Graham, who was a professor emeritus from UC Berkeley, best friend I ever had in the world and he had over 40 patents to his name Him and I were tenants teamed up together and we both use an oscilloscope. We come from a technical background so we can actually see what the electricity and what we're seeing there, and so we would see these waveforms and we've seen all these high frequency transits and things like that. And so we thought, okay, it seems that they're affecting cows and, of course, the farmers. It did affect daily milk production in cows. We could count them and we could say, okay, here's your milk production. If we had a lot of them, milk production went down.

Dave Stetzer: 3:59

It was that day. It wasn't like a lag of two weeks or something. So then if we didn't have so many milk production, we'd go out. But the farmer said look, you know, this doesn't just affect the cows, it affects people. When my wife comes into the barn she passes out heart palpitations. They get her. We're in a rural area, so by the time the ambulance gets her and she gets to the hospital, you know she's on a rubber tire vehicle for an hour or more and they get her to the hospital there can't be anything wrong with her.

Dave Stetzer: 4:28

So then you think, well, it must be psychosomatic. Well, we've been around a dairy barn. Nobody would psychosomatically, or nobody would purposely fall down in the manure or something like that. But it's like, let's rule that out, let's see what's really there and we could measure this stuff. So then an oscilloscope costs like $5,000.

Dave Stetzer: 4:48

And so then we figure, okay, why don't we figure out a way of removing these frequencies from the? Because, where did they come from? They're on the ground. Well, they came from the power company. Well, the power company didn't generate them. So we looked at people's homes and office buildings, like that, it's from modern day electronic devices, okay. So we thought, well, what if we go ahead and figure out a way of removing them? Then people should get better. And they did okay. But then how do you know where to put these things? What you know? What are the levels? And not everybody's? Well, first of all, hardly anybody's going to go out and buy an oscilloscope, can't afford it. So then I thought, well, let's figure a way of building an inexpensive, poor man's oscilloscope. Okay, and we wanted to make it as simple as possible.

Dave Stetzer: 5:37

So we came up with the micro surge meter. We call it, you plug it into the wall. There's not even an on and off switch, you just just plug it in. You get a digital number. Now the number is looking at energy. It's saying okay, now there's a guy named Maxwell Planck who said energy is proportionate to frequency. So the higher the frequency, the more energy. Not only amplitude, where anybody else can only look at amplitude. Our meter, and we have the patent on it we look at difference in voltage over the difference in time. So we're looking at how many times did that change voltage in a given time period? And so you get a digital number. So it's, like I said, a poor man's oscilloscope. So you can have very low voltage, but if it's at a higher frequency then you got a lot more energy. So it gives you a higher number. So that's how we kind of came up with the meter.

Keith Cutter: 6:32

Got it, Got it. So with your, just a quick question here when you're using your scope, are you looking just in the voltage domain or are you looking in the frequency domain as well?

Dave Stetzer: 6:42

No, I'm looking at the shape of that waveform and what changes the waveform? Okay, is the frequency. Now we invented two things, okay. One, we call the gram stetser filter, that removes this stuff from the line. But when we use an oscilloscope, we invented what we call a ubiquitous filter. It removes the 60 cycles from the meter or from the line. So what happens? So we use a two-channel scope when we look at the 60 cycle, and then we go through that little filter and it takes the 60 cycle out. So it's like I use an analogy of going to Mexico and drinking water.

Dave Stetzer: 7:23

Okay, we've invented a way of taking the water out of the glass, just the water. So what's left over is the bacteria, and that's what makes you sick. You can put in a piece of bread and get sick. So if you go ahead and you look at this high frequency after we take that out and that's what that little gram stature meter does too, that micro surge meter meter, it doesn't care. The front ends, that of the meter, the electronics part, takes out the 60 cycle. So only measuring what's left over the trash, how many parts per million, for example, of bacteria are in on the wire or in the glass. So that's what that works.

Keith Cutter: 8:04

Okay, and you know we're going to talk about things like you just mentioned people got better. So I'm just want to put a disclaimer in here. Neither one of us are doctors. We don't diagnose, we don't treat, we don't prescribe, and none of what we're talking about today is healthcare advice. If you have any questions in that realm, you should see your own healthcare provider. But tell me about some of the situations where you've seen people getting better, the environments where they get better. We were talking before oh, go ahead no good, well, it's fine.

Dave Stetzer: 8:33

Well, uh, one thing that comes to mind we, we, we put them in a school district one day a while, two days actually. The school district hired it. They had what they called sick building syndrome and the, the uh teachers teachers union, had a lawsuit against the school district for sick building syndrome and of course they did the mold radiation. They did all kinds of things, put new carpet in Thought maybe there was a female to hide in the carpet the same the stuff they always do, and of course it's always mold. Nobody wants to look at electricity because it's, and of course it's always mold.

Keith Cutter: 9:08

Nobody wants to look at electricity because it's sort of like a sacred cow Right Couldn't possibly be that.

Dave Stetzer: 9:12

Well, it's kind of like a sacred cow for utilities, things like that. So, okay. So one of the board members said, well, why don't we get, you know, stetser there and take some measurements and stuff? And of course the superintendent was very optimistic, or he he wasn't, he wasn't really for it. But anyway, we went there and we did kind of assessment and took some readings and he said, okay, look, if that's the case, okay, this one room where we have up here should be the worst, right, because people we got to. We can only go a couple of worst, right, because people we got it. We can only go a couple months there. And then we got to rotate to kids and teachers because they're getting sick. It's as sick as one. So those numbers should be the worst. Well, logically it should be and it was okay. But then I can use, I use a scope by seeing the problem. So we fixed that, but nonetheless, okay, we put filters in, so we put them in, um, I think in november and may. Okay, they paid for themselves because none of the teachers, or most of the teachers, weren't calling in sick and they didn't. They saved, they paid for themselves by may by not having to pay substantive teachers.

Dave Stetzer: 10:28

And then one mom was upset because there's three buildings. We put them in two buildings one day and another building another day. Well, one of the moms was upset because little johnny, uh, wasn't bringing his inhaler home to get, you know, it refilled. And so she called the school nurse and said hey, look, you know, I'll come here withholding my little Johnny's inhaler. She said, well, little Johnny hasn't come in to get a puff off of it, right, yeah. And then she's got to think you know, school nurse, right, she has to keep records of this. And then she said, come to think about it, nobody else has either. Well, the school nurses are, I mean the.

Dave Stetzer: 11:08

The mom was pretty upset because obviously, you know, schools are trying to mess with little johnny. So she wanted to have a meeting with the superintendent and the nurse. So she got her meeting. So the nurse thought, gee, I better kind of protect myself, I better do some research. And so she noticed that there's 37 kids that coming in and getting the puffs off the asthma or the inhaler. So none of the kids in the two buildings came in after a certain date. The next day none of the kids in the other building came in, so she was at a meeting in the teacher's lounge. She said what happened to those dates. They said that's the day we put the filters in. Okay, so now it's not a cure for asthma, okay. But when I was in russia I asked the guys about that, and so maybe they didn't have asthma anyway, because when you are exposed to these fields, your body will produce histamine.

Dave Stetzer: 11:57

Okay right and so you have a reaction to these fields and so you know you can take an antihistamine. And of course, they gave me this. I said, yeah, but you know how come this happened like this? Well, they said, look, there happened to be four of us there and he said, okay, if somebody brings a cat in here, we're all allergic to cats somebody might break down the rash, somebody starts wheezing, somebody's eyes start watering, you know they all these symptoms, but we could take an antihistamine to get rid of it, but a better plan would be to get rid of the cat, and so that's kind of where. Yeah, so that's, that's one thing.

Dave Stetzer: 12:33

Diabetes, um, there's people like professor magna hobbits who thought this was kind of it can't be true. So she did some research with ms. They've done research at schools, they've done research. Uh, she's done a lot of research with MS. They've done research at schools, they've done research. She's done a lot of research with diabetics and of course, the results were, you know, like, wait a minute, this is really, you know, can't turn out this way. Professor Sam Milham has done some research. It's all independent research. You know, neurotransmitters in the urine, uh, blood sugar, it's a number, uh, so it's a real thing and we're looking at very little low level voltages in higher frequencies and not high high frequencies either.

Dave Stetzer: 13:17

Because I went to russia and we said, okay, which are the most biologically active frequencies? The the World Health Organization, the Russian government, japanese government says they're between 4 kilohertz and 100 kilohertz. Okay, so now I think about this Well, where are we exposed to 4 to 100 kilohertz? Well, a lot of the stuff that we have in our environment. For example, I'm talking to.

Dave Stetzer: 13:46

I have a MacBook Pro here. It's 12.5 kilohertz that it puts back on every wire in the house. I have a Dell over here to my right. That's putting 50 kilohertz. I have some laptops. They put between 25 kilohertz and 50 kilohertz back on Smart meters. Put 50 kilohertz back on the widers. Compact fluorescent lights okay, the ones that look like a snake. They put between 50 kilohertz and 100 kilohertz back on the lights. Led lights big thing now right, can't even buy incandescent. Incandescent puts nothing back, safe, right. Lights big thing. Now right, can't even buy incandescent. Incandescent puts nothing back, safe, right. Leds 62.5 and 31.25 kilohertz back in the wire. So you can see they're the most biologically active frequencies and we're surrounding our bodies with them on the wire right.

Keith Cutter: 14:39

Right, I think people could, and I think people who are trying to understand dirty electricity. I don't really love the term, um, I think conducted electromagnetic interference is a maybe it's too technical term, but it kind of kind of describes what's going on. And so you say, okay, we have this, um oscillation, if you will, going on on the power line that doesn't have anything to do with the electricity you're paying for powering your refrigerator. These are itinerant frequencies, you could say, without a job really in your home, and they're traveling around the wiring and people would say so what they're on the wires can't hurt me, but the problem is anything that travels across an unshielded wire gets liberated into the local environment. So, um, would you agree with that, that description of another way to look at dirty electricity?

Dave Stetzer: 15:36

yeah, actually, when we first found it okay. Uh, graham Graham wrote a white paper at the University in California, berkeley, and he called it a ubiquitous pollutant and electrical pollution. Okay, so of course ubiquitous is a kind of a word that is thrown around, but it means it's everywhere and it really is Okay. And so he called it electric pollution, and so we kind of had this formal, you know, university stamped term for it. Now I don't know where it morphed into dirty electricity, but if we write any papers or something like that, where we are usually referring it to it as electrical pollution or ubiquitous pollutant, because we do have the definition for it, but yes, it is dirty electricity, but I agree with you on your you know, and you got to remember, somebody made it that way and it really doesn't have to be, because for I'm talking about this macbook pro here, you know, and we put 12.5 kilohertz back on the wire.

Dave Stetzer: 16:53

Now, in the beginning we didn't want to have um a product to sell because we thought it took away from our credibility as experts. So we went to different manufacturers of different equipment and said, look, you know, you could put a tuned filter on this computer or this you know device. Right and it's going to be cheap because you know you're putting it right in the switchable power supply. They said, yeah, but it'd add $5 to the cost of the computer. Well, in those days laptop computers were about $3,000. So what's the difference between $29.95 or $3,000? You're all $3,000. So then, finally, we said, well, we'll make one ourselves, and to heck with you.

Keith Cutter: 17:40

So let's talk about some of the worst offenders with regard to dirty electricity, the worst thing that I have in my home is a mini split. It's a form of air conditioning and heating where the compressor unit is outside. And, by the way, on my unit there's not one but two variable speed motors on the compressor unit outside unit. There's not one, but two variable speed motors on the compressor unit inside outside one on the compressor itself and the other on the fan that goes across the coils. And then on the inside you have what's called an air handling unit and that takes the room air in and then either heats it or cools it, and and redistributes it and then on my unit, you know, that's a variable speed drive as well, so that's kind of the king in in my home.

Keith Cutter: 18:28

Other problems that I see with my clients in addition to that are like well pumps. You know people who live in a rural area. They have their own well and sometimes they'll want to not have a large pressure tank so you can do that with a variable speed drive on your well pump. But most people aren't aware that they're going to pay a big penalty in terms of dirty electricity and I feel like the harm of the dirty electricity is proportional to the current draws and you can comment on that in just a minute. But those are a couple of things.

Keith Cutter: 19:04

And we talked about LED lighting. I mean, we've had this safe incandescent lighting for many years and now we're being asked to replace that with LED lights, which you know it's like a little radio station built into the base of every one of these and whatever frequency that station is operating at does get communicated back to all the wiring in the house and, of course, smart meters and whatnot. But yeah, if we could just talk about what are some of the main sources. You mentioned computers as well and maybe your comment on the danger being in proportion to the current sometimes Well, first of all a little prelude to that the Russians did some research on rats, okay.

Keith Cutter: 19:54

Let's mention why we talk about the Russians. I mean, they were for the longest time the world leaders right in terms of understanding the synthetic radiation environment.

Dave Stetzer: 20:04

Yeah, and they actually made weapons of this. But they did some research on rats and they exposed them to a carrier wave. And a carrier wave is a repetitive wave, a high frequency wave, but it's repetitive, same all the time. Okay, if you take a crystal and the excited it puts out a certain frequency, but it's the same all the time. Then if we modulate it or change it, we can change it at an audio rate, for example, we can get you know, or fm station, for example.

Dave Stetzer: 20:31

But okay, so they did this research on these rats and nothing seemed to happen. They go well, gee, we know this stuff is bad, but it really didn't seem to bother them. So one guy said well, why don't we go ahead and modulate the signal? In other words, let's pulse that wave. And when they did, within three minutes all the rats were dead. They didn't even have time to make notes. Okay, so now we come along with variable speed frequency drives. First of all, in 1972 there was an oil embargo, so we had to get more energy efficient let me, let me just um jump in here for one second.

Keith Cutter: 21:09

So when we talk about pulsing it, you can still have the carrier wave. You're just turning that carrier wave on and off.

Dave Stetzer: 21:16

Sometimes it's on, sometimes it's off so, yes, or varying the amplitude or changing it, okay, so, but that's exactly what a variable speed frequency drive motor does. Okay, it's chopping that sine wave up and the slower, you know, and we still got some amplitude there and we're changing it. But if we, we we still got the same voltage, but we're changing the frequency. So, uh, what happens is your mini split. See, like I said going back, you know we had to get more energy, so now we want to use current, in short, pulses, and get the same amount of work out of it. And so, like your mini splits, you know variable speed. And even farmers vacuum pumps, you know, on their, on their dairies, you know. Like, you know, if you've got a lot of cows in there, you need a lot of vacuum. You know, hooked to a milker, but then as they start dropping off, you don't need quite so much vacuum. So then there's a sensor and it slows down the vacuum pump. Well, people put those in, then the milk production goes to heck.

Gweneth: 22:18

Why.

Dave Stetzer: 22:19

You know. I mean, you could drop 12 pounds a day in milk production with a VFD. Now we know the manufacturers of this stuff. Okay, they know what frequencies they're putting back on, and so you can put some tuned filters in that particular uh drive. It isn't the motor that's causing it's the drive. So in your mini split and you're absolutely right you run into it all the time. At least once a week, somebody we're helping out with a mini split. Okay, we never used to have them. So you know, 20 years ago or even 10 years ago, we didn't see them, but now we're seeing it a lot.

Dave Stetzer: 22:57

Okay, so, and they are really bad, but you know, the problem's solvable. There's an engineering solution to an engineering problem. This is an engineering problem, but it shouldn't be you and it shouldn't be me but it. It shouldn't be me, but it certainly shouldn't be your clients or your listeners that have to fix this. This is the manufacturer's problem, they. You know Michael Dell when he made that computer. He knows it puts 50 kilohertz back on the line. He knows how to get rid of it. He should get rid of it.

Keith Cutter: 23:28

Should be illegal.

Dave Stetzer: 23:31

No, but it should be Really. I'm not kidding, yeah, I'm the first to say that and I'm selling a product that fixes it. And I'm going to be the first guy to be happy to say hey, I'm going out of business here because they put tune filters in these things now and you don't need my product.

Keith Cutter: 23:46

Yeah. So the best strategy I think you and I can both agree is to remove the source. I mean just like an RF radiation, rather than shielding it. Remove the source where you can. Now, if you've already invested in the mini split I don't know if you're going to take it out and replace it or not, and you know you certainly do have control of your lighting and that kind of thing but it is those things that can't be replaced that we can look to. You know how do we make it better? And so the analog in the RF world, where you're wanting to reduce exposure, would be increasing distance or shielding. And you can't increase distance on dirty electricity because it's you know continuity and the wiring in the whole place, because it's you know continuity and the wiring in the whole place. So then you're left with filtering, which I would say is an analog in the RF world to shielding. And what I mean by that is no form of shielding is perfect and no form of filtering is perfect, but we can make some pretty big dents in it.

Keith Cutter: 24:47

How best do people deploy your solution in a home? Because I think they many times they can do this all by themselves. It's great if people want to have, and you know we were talking before we hit record here about in the earlier days. Sometimes all you could do is address the dirty electricity and people would get better. And also when Wi-Fi first started coming out, sometimes all you had to do is tell them to turn off their router and they get better from that. Now it's a much more complex kind of environment. So maybe you want to have somebody who's local and somebody who's qualified come in and help you with that assessment and remediation. But I think the deployment of your filters can be done by just about anyone. How do you best do it in a home?

Dave Stetzer: 25:38

well, that's a good point. And we did try to do this because we said, okay, uh, we want to make these so that the average person can do it themselves. That's where we had the cheap $120 meter or whatever it is. We made that so you don't have to buy a $5,000 oscilloscope. And then you got to get these filters and we give you instructions and people call here and we got qualified people that walk you through it. If you can't do it yourself, we try to make it that way so you don't have to hire somebody to do that.

Dave Stetzer: 26:17

And we we don't I I've yet to charge for, you know, or anybody here for having people help out, and we can. If we got skype, we got zoom, we got all these modern day things where you can, we'll just set up a time and we'll go ahead and we can. It's like us being there and we I do. I just did it with some people in Nova Scotia here a couple weeks ago, where you know the husband, he wasn't too sure and they wanted to get it done right. So we set up a time, you know, and I spent a couple hours with them they did, you know, in their house and I said, okay, take this reading, tell me what it said. But yes, what you can do is, first of all, there's big polluters in your house. One is your tv. You already know that your entertainment center, computers are big problems, things like that. Okay, so go and you put a filter there first, because one thing about filtering I mean we'll say it's filtered so the cows come home, but we didn't do it to make money, we did it and you put a filter there first Because one thing about filtering I mean we'll say it's filtered until the cows come home, but we didn't do it to make money, we did it to help people. So we want to do it as effectively and efficiently as we can. So do your TV and your computers and your electronics first, because every time you plug one in somewhere, it lowers the numbers everywhere.

Dave Stetzer: 27:31

Now then you get a meter and you plug it into an outlet. You start somewhere bedroom, hallway, whatever. There's two parts of the outlet top half and the bottom half. You plug one in, it doesn't matter. Plug the meter into top half, for example. You'll get a number. Then you plug the filter in and you want to see a significant reduction, and I define significant as 20%. So if it's reading 300, comes down to 100, obviously you did something there. Leave the filter. Now, 100 is still too high. But you don't plug a second filter. Go to the next outlet. If it's 300 or comes down to 295 or 290, that's not a significant drop, it just means you're not that close to the source. So go to the next outlet, don't worry about it. You go around and eventually you'll see the numbers Now drop down.

Dave Stetzer: 28:20

Now any energy. If you made the human body into an electrical model, it would look like three resistors and two capacitors called the UL five ul five component model. You can look up in the internet you want. A capacitor is short to high frequency, so we as humans are short to high frequency, but not until you get above 1.7 or 2 kilohertz. Okay, any energy above 2 kilohertz dissipates internal to the human body. So the filters are going to work at two kilohertz.

Dave Stetzer: 28:54

But our meter 50 not always, but we did some calibrations and things like that. Okay, in europe and kazakhstan and places 50 on the meter is usually below two kilohertz. Now, when people did this research like harvest and milliman, these people, when they did the research, when the number was just because you have, you're going to notice when you plug the filter and you have no control over what the number comes off at the schools where the kids got better grades, no asthma, all this stuff. Again, what happens is the number happened to be around 35 or less or whatever. Okay, okay, but the same thing from an engineering standpoint. What had happened if the number was below 50? Okay, because it's not going internally. So if the number is below 50, you need to check every outlet. You do not need a filter in every outlet, or you did something wrong, so. But when you get the number below 50, the effects should be immediate, and they are immediate. In fact, if you're diabetic within 20 minutes, you better take your blood sugar.

Keith Cutter: 29:59

Yeah, right, yeah, we were talking about that nursing home that you were present in Magdavis was, and I just talked to Sheena Simington and it was. It was dramatic. I didn't realize it was so quick it was. You were telling me what less than a half hour 20 minutes, 20 minutes to an hour, you will crash.

Dave Stetzer: 30:22

When Havas did research on the diabetic, okay, nobody. And this is type one okay, that's where they use the nobody had less than a 52% reduction in insulin usage.

Keith Cutter: 30:35

It's almost like dirty electricity has an effect on energy production in the body or something right.

Dave Stetzer: 30:43

Well, it affects the cells, that's for sure. Yeah, so nobody had, you know, between 52, 52 to 92% reduction in insulin usage. So can you mention does it make the drug companies happy?

Keith Cutter: 30:55

Right, right, and we were chatting a little bit before. One of my careers was on an ambulance and I can't tell you how many times we ran on what's called a diabetic emergency, and typically that would be hypoglycemia, which can actually be life-threatening hypoglycemia which can actually be life-threatening, and so we knew how to go in and use pharmaceuticals and get that person stabilized really quickly.

Dave Stetzer: 31:17

That's when it goes too low, right.

Keith Cutter: 31:18

Pardon me, that's when it goes too low right yeah, that's when the blood sugar goes, goes too low. So, um, and it's not like having too high blood pressure is not harmful, it's just not an wasn't considered a bias to be an acute event that needed to be saved their life. Treat them right there in the field, but we would get these individuals sometimes that are called brittle diabetic you want to talk about brittle diabetics and observations with that?

Dave Stetzer: 31:56

with that. I didn't say like I like diabetes because it's, but the reason I we like diabetes was it was a number. Okay, like I said before, maybe the dalai lama can change his blood sugar psychosomatically, but you and I can't right and so it's a number that we can plot.

Dave Stetzer: 32:07

Against the number, you know like we get this meter that gives you a number. So it you know if you have a headache and we put filters in, your headache goes away. Only you know you had the headache. I can't prove that you had a headache. But so diabetics we start doing little work with diabetics because it was a number. It's an easy number, easy to check, easy to do that. But the term I never heard the term brittle diabetic. But it's kind of like you're all over the board and nothing really makes sense. I mean, you can be too low and you give yourself just a little bit to bring it up and it takes it off the scale or something whatever. So what we noticed was is that whenever we cleaned up their electrical environment, they weren't this brutal diabetic anymore. They could get on a regular regimen. You know, they could look at so many carbs and give themselves so much insulin and they're the same as anybody else. You know that way.

Keith Cutter: 33:02

Yeah, and so earlier we were talking about, you know, deploying the devices within the home, and so your advice was to just pick a place, and what you're looking for is at least a 20% reduction from the filter, and if you don't get the 20% reduction, it's not. Another filter in that location is not necessary. Is that correct?

Dave Stetzer: 33:28

Right, if you don't get the 20% reduction, unplug the filter, go to another place.

Dave Stetzer: 33:34

Right, just because you're not that close to you know, just check the next outlet. You just work your way around the house. You're going to have to be like a little detective, but every time you plug one in somewhere, you know it lowers the numbers everywhere. So eventually you're going to get to the point where you know you're going to get numbers like 30 and maybe 35, because there's an A and a B phase coming into the house. So you're going to get two different numbers and you're going to plug it in. It's going to be 35 and plug it in it reads 34. Okay so, but in toward the end you're going to see that there's really no change and and or very little. And so there's really no change and and or very little, and so then you've done your job and you've done it right.

Dave Stetzer: 34:14

If you have any questions, you certainly call. Uh, we're not going to send you a bill for it. I know some places, when you call, they say, well, you're going to have to pay so much an hour or minute or whatever it is. That isn't us and we don't have machines here to answer the phone. We have real people. So you know it's ringing, we're.

Dave Stetzer: 34:29

So you know if it's ringing, we're busy. You know if nobody picks up, but you know we have several lines coming in. We have all kinds of qualified people here that know exactly what they're doing. That'll walk you through it. And again, if they're really impaired or something or really need help, you know, even if you don't know how to do it and you're kind of older or something, and you know. You know if you don't know how to do it and you're kind of older or something, and you know, if you get your grandson to come there and he doesn't know anything about it, that's fine, no problem. Let's make arrangements to Skype or do something like that. That's still free and we'll just. You know it's not an inconvenience for us. You know we did it so people could get better and you know, if we don't't like it, then we'll change occupations.

Keith Cutter: 35:11

I guess so let's um, let's compare and contrast the solution that you have with another solution that is available on the market and that is a like a centralized whole house dirty electricity filter that's installed at the main electric panel, and there are a couple of manufacturers that build devices like that. So how would you compare and contrast that kind of a solution versus the solution that you guys are offering?

Dave Stetzer: 35:41

It's sort of like being an Amish versus us. Okay, being a what Like Amish, Amish, you know, oh, okay okay, the buggy versus ours.

Dave Stetzer: 35:52

And I don't want to pick on these guys, they're like graham stetser wannabes. Okay, graham and stetser found it. Graham and stetser have electrical backgrounds. That's all we've ever done. We're members of the ieee, all that stuff, right. So we found it, we figured out a solution. But the first thing we did, okay, was we made a whole house filter, Okay, and we did some research with the University of Wisconsin-Madison and we took 20 people who had fibromyalgia you know chronic fatigue, I think it was chronic fatigue and so 10 people knew when it was on, and, and, and you know night and day.

Dave Stetzer: 36:32

We left them on for two weeks off, for two weeks on, for two weeks off for two weeks. There was a switch inside. Nobody could know. So anyway, um, all right. So 10 people knew 100 better. Then they went back, went and reverted, and so seven people kind of knew when it was on, when it wasn't, and three people said, well, they couldn't tell the difference, although the statistics showed. They went to bed two hours later at night and got up an hour early in the morning.

Dave Stetzer: 37:00

Graham and I look at things from an engineering standpoint. So if you come into a room and you flip the light switch on. We want it coming on 100% of the time, not 70% or anything like that. So the question is, why didn't we get 20 out of 20? So then when we put the part that we were involved with was taking the measurements, we didn't do anything about turning it on and turning it off and the doctors took all that. That was independent research.

Dave Stetzer: 37:29

But we collected the waveforms, okay, in the people's homes and we noticed that when we turned it on and we turned it off, the whole house filtered. Okay, on the ones that the people didn't get so good, the waveform didn't change that much. Okay, the waveform that's inside the house. Now the question is, why? So we go back and we look at it and say, okay, but the people didn't get so good, these are sick people. So they got to occupy their time during the day, so they'd have big screen TVs and they would have, you know, stereo equipment. They had a lot more electronic devices, right, like dimmer switches, things like that, right, and the ones that got better didn't have all that dimmer switches, things like that, right, and the ones that got better didn't have all that.

Dave Stetzer: 38:16

So then we thought, okay, what if we go ahead and make an individual filter that goes out and about the room, okay, get it close to the source. You know, if your TV is causing the problem, it doesn't get shorted out until it gets way over to the box or the panel, right. So if it's coming off the grid, that's great because it stops it before it gets in the house. But what about stuff that's in the house? So then we thought we could get it better at the source. That's one of the things.

Dave Stetzer: 38:41

The other thing we looked at the frequencies. Remember we were using oscilloscopes. We can tell the frequencies. The whole house filters. There's a frequency, there's a bandwidth of filters okay. The whole house filters. There's a frequency, there's a bandwidth of filters, okay. And so it captures a certain amount. You get above 25 kilohertz. Those whole house filters start dropping fast, okay. So the most biologically active frequencies are between 4 and 100. Well, if you've got this Mac computer, it's 12.5, that's okay. So we went back and we made the individual filter, okay. Then we repeated the study and we had 100%. But we had to make placebos and dummies and things like that to look like it. But yeah, so that's the whole house filter. Again, it's like driving down the road with an Amish buggy when you can be sitting in a nice GMC Denali driving down the road.

Keith Cutter: 39:36

I tell you I don't want a brand new car because of the RF implications, but right now I'm with you. I understand what you're saying, so let's talk about, maybe, a possible way to use your filters other than what we've talked about, in order to address appliances like a mini-split or a variable speed pump that you just can't live without. Can your the idea of wiring in a couple of dedicated outlets right at the main electric panel? Is that something, or would you do?

Dave Stetzer: 40:17

that? No, that's a good idea.

Keith Cutter: 40:20

To clean up what's coming from the grid.

Dave Stetzer: 40:22

Yeah, where I, where I like, I like, okay. Usually you don't have to, okay, but if you can't get those numbers down to where we want them, then we need to. You know, because it's either coming from in the house or from the grid. And a lot of times from the grid, you know, and you can't help it, because if you're living kind of by a factory or something, or here's the worst thing, if you don't have it, but you're, you know because at least if you have, it's under your control.

Dave Stetzer: 40:50

But if your neighbor has solar, right then you, you got 20 kilohertz, and remember, 25 kilohertz is non-Ochkins lymphoma, so 20 kilohertz being on the line, right. So you got to get rid of that and you can't go to the source because the inverter is putting it on. So then you got to put some. You don't want to come into your house at all. So then I usually have an electric income? Oh, I don't.

Keith Cutter: 41:15

But you know like the people if we have for the client?

Dave Stetzer: 41:20

yeah, people who are not electricians and it's about a $100 worth of material. You need four receptacles, right, duplex receptacles, and you need this cover in the boxes, two four-inch boxes, and we put, like a fourplex, what we call a fourplex because there's actually four places to plug in, but two of them fit from A phase and two of them fit from B phase. Okay, so that's say a phase and tool that's fed from b phase. Okay, so that's say 100 bucks. If you don't have it, the electrician has to put it in and then you're out. You know probably what 40 bucks or something for so 80. So you're out less than 200, you know, to put this on, but it's still a long ways from a whole house filter. And now you whole-house filter and you have a better one because you're working at 1.7 kilohertz and you're stretching way out like a meg that's going to clean up that line.

Keith Cutter: 42:17

Can you connect between the two phases?

Dave Stetzer: 42:19

Go phase-to-phase. You don't have to, okay. No, you don't have to, you can, okay. But then then we got to change the the filter like in, like a two, because you'd have 240 volts there then we got okay, you'd have 240.

Dave Stetzer: 42:37

Uh, in europe we have, we have filters for europe and we do have it for 240. But then ul there, there you all prove. But ul and of course Canadian Standards Association, for you know, but CE has to be for Europe and the rules are that when you unplug that filter, because it is a capacity okay, capacitors can hold the charge. So when you unplug it you have to, within, within one second, be discharged. Okay, well, at 120 volts we've got to have a certain time value there. So we have to use one size resistor and of course, for Europe then we've got to use double that, because you've got double the voltage, okay, so you don't want to hook it at 230, or you'll hear it popping and sizzling and that's a resistor burning up inside.

Keith Cutter: 43:20

Yeah, once you let the blue smoke out of those things, they don't work so well, right? Oh, yeah, right, so, and on that note, sometimes when you plug in this kind of device it'll make a sound, and that's not something to be alarmed about it.

Dave Stetzer: 43:36

No, it's a capacitor. The basic component is a capacitor. Okay, a capacitor charges at peak voltages, okay, so when you plug it into the wall, you have 335 volts there. And now for the people saying, oh, you're crazy, it's 120. No, it's not, it's really 335. Voltage is measured peak to peak. Okay, and that's what people feel and that's what's there.

Dave Stetzer: 44:00

Now, the RMS root mean square value. In other words, if you had a dc heater, for example, how much heat would that come on? How much voltage would you need? If you had 120 volt battery, okay, you're going to get a certain amount of btu heat off of it. How much ac do we need to produce the same amount of heat? Well, well, the answer is 335. So we actually have 335 volts there. But now we just kind of say everybody uses RMS as a term, but it's 120 volts RMS, but the capacitor is charging at 335 volts. So when you do put it in there, you've got a 335-volt arc. If it's on the top maximum positive or maximum negative, if it's going across zero, zero, you don't get a pop. But it's just a one-time, you know, pop and that's the end of it right and and just just that people would know that's not it's not something don't be alarmed, it's not something to be concerned about.

Keith Cutter: 44:56

It's, it's um, it's fairly normal. When you plug these things in, you might get a snap or crack or whatever, right?

Dave Stetzer: 45:03

Yeah, yeah, exactly yeah. I've been asked that question probably a thousand times.

Keith Cutter: 45:09

I'll bet yeah, yeah so. And your product is or is not UL listed?

Dave Stetzer: 45:16

Oh yeah, it's UL approved Yep, ul, csa, canadian standards yeah, absolutely.

Keith Cutter: 45:23

Okay, so I want to talk about my ideal product for the future. Are you guys thinking of? What I would really love to have is something the size of a circuit break uh, you know circuit breaker that would fit in a main, your main electric panel and I know this is probably not a realistic dream where I could tune both inductance and capacitance at the same time. Such a thing I'm sure doesn't exist. But there is a magnetic field component of dirty electricity and I want to get your thoughts on this.

Keith Cutter: 46:04

Because the wavelength is so long and because you don't have coherence in electromagnetic fields until you're in the far field, we need to examine both the electric and the magnetic fields separately, and so if you have troublesome voltage transients or residue from switch mode power supplies of whatever type, or something that comes in dirty on the electric grid, there's going to be a current-related magnetic field aspect of that as well. So can you talk about that a little bit, and is that an opportunity for something in the future? Is it something we don't need to worry about? Is it something that can or can't be addressed in a capacitance device? I'd just like to have a little discussion about that.

Dave Stetzer: 47:03

Well, again, I'm not a doctor, I don't know a can of medical advice, but what we've found, okay, and what I've seen and I've been doing this for a long time and I actually got to the point where I quit doing it because I was pretty much right all the time. I could look at that waveform and I could tell you what you were suffering from. Okay, like a doctor reads EKG. I guess I was look at that waveform and I could tell you what you were suffering from. Okay, like a doctor reads ekg. I guess I was looking at that and say, well, look, you get this. But a few times I said you got cancer and people got mad at me because they didn't, but then when they went to the doctor they had cancer so then, it's like no, you know, so I didn't like doing it and I predict

Dave Stetzer: 47:41

you know, but I could look at the amplitude and wave form. So what I found and noticed and I'm not sure we do all this research on the 60 hertz, okay, but after being in Russia and stuff like that, they didn't seem to bother people too bad. The 60 part, or they have 50. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt you because it can, it can't and it does and plenty of research that says it does. But what we notice that if it's dirty it does bother you. So the filters take out the dirt, okay for sure. Okay, and I was in russia and there were some scientists that were arguing. They said, okay, they were arguing with each other and they said we did good research. And the other guy said no, you didn't, because our research shows that this doesn't hurt you. And they're talking about the fundamental frequency of 50 hertz. Okay, and so I was there as a guest and I said well, guys, did you save the waveforms? Yes, so what they found was is that if it was dirty it caused cancer. And the ones that said it didn't cause cancer, that the results were inconclusive, it wasn't dirty. So does 50 hertz hurt you or not? And both of them were saying one says it didn't. One says it does. But now they both agree, both sides it was the high frequency that causes it. If you're living in New York and you say, well, I get sick from the water, and you're drinking water in Veracruz, mexico, and you're getting sick, right, so the guy in New York says no, water does not make you sick and the guy in Veracruz says it does too. Let's look at the water. That's whatham and I did. We looked at the water, we looked at the waveform and when the water, we figured all the way draining the glass of water what was left over was the bacteria in vera cruz. So both of them are right. Okay, the water didn't make the guy sick in new york and it really wasn't the water that made him sick in their cruise, it was the bacteria. So it's a high frequency, it's on so.

Dave Stetzer: 49:50

But I don't know the jury's kind of you know out on that. All I can go by is experience. And I know that when we cleaned it up the symptoms went away. We know we went to uh Milham, who was a professor emeritus from Washington State, former head of the health department out there, wrote a dirty book, electricity, wrote several books and papers on it. He collected urine from people for 12 weeks at the Olympia Washington Library.

Dave Stetzer: 50:22

Nobody had less than 300 neurotransmitters in their urine. Okay so, neurotransmitters like the electrical grid of your immune system. So you get a cancer cell in your ovary, it sends a signal up to your brain, says, hey, something here doesn't belong. Brain goes back down. Okay, I'll set something down to kill it. Okay, so you don't want to have any neurotransmitters coming out of your urine because they're leaving your body going through your kidneys. And oh right, so we I flew out there just to make sure that they did it right, so nobody could argue about you know, we put filters in and they didn't do anything. If they only put two in, they could say they put filters in, okay, so so the number would have to be around 30 or something like that, 35. I don't know, I can't remember the paper, but anyway, within eight hours because there's two shifts within eight hours they collected the urine again for 12 weeks. Nobody had less, nobody had more than three neurotransmitters in their urine. So the effects are pretty much the same.

Dave Stetzer: 51:23

Now. We didn't change anything, just the high frequency transits. That's all we removed. Okay, I know Wi-Fi was still there. I find people with Wi-Fi can't sleep, they get headaches, all kinds of stuff. So I'm not saying Wi-Fi is good for you, but the most biologically active frequencies are what's on those buildings, wires, and that's the ones you'll get the biggest bang for your buck by removing them.

Dave Stetzer: 51:49

Okay, now you still got to tweak it, there's no arguing about it. I can't. I go to hotel. They got wi-fi. I can plug filters in my room, but I can't turn off their wi-fi and I can't sleep. I'll toss and turn most of the night and if I go to somebody's house, my son has his Wi-Fi on. I got to go down to the basement and turn it off. Or I can't sleep and I wouldn't say I'm sensitive.

Dave Stetzer: 52:15

And the thing with it is well, sensitive people say, well, I'm sensitive and somebody isn't sensitive.

Dave Stetzer: 52:21

That's not true.

Dave Stetzer: 52:22

We all react. We're all humans. Okay, all the cows reacted to these transients, some more than others, but nonetheless, it's just that the people say, well, they're sensitive or they noticed this. They've made the connection, like you made the connection of what was causing your problems. But unless you made the connection, you can go to the doctor and say I got a headache, he'll give you a pill. You're hitting.

Dave Stetzer: 52:48

But once you make the connection and nobody's superman, everybody's affected by it it's just you're affected differently or you don't notice it as much, or you become more sensitive, and if you have one radiation, okay, the resistance of your internal organs goes down. That's right out of the book by dr carl mara. He did a lot of research on this in prague. He was the head of the research center there and so what happened is the lower your resistance, the more current is allowed to go through you. Then the more current that goes on through you, the lower your resistance. The more current is allowed to go through you. The more current that goes through you, the lower your resistance. So it's a spiral going downhill and you're just going to get worse and worse and worse.

Keith Cutter: 53:35

So that, if we can stop, that your body will recover All right. Well, that sounds like a good place to end our discussion. Sounds like a good place to end our discussion, and I just want to thank you for the work that you're doing in bringing this product to market and your tireless activities in helping people day to day to deploy these, and I just want to thank you for spending some time with us today and answering all these questions. And how can people get in touch with you?

Dave Stetzer: 54:13

Well, we got StetzerElectriccom. There's a website and if you want just me I mean there's a you can send, I think, help or something. I'm not the guy that takes care of that, but you can send it, Dave, at StetzerElectriccom, and I'll answer your email. Or you can call me and I'll answer your phone call, or they'll get it to me and I might not be able to take it at that particular time, but I will return your call. There's nobody that can say I didn't return their call or something like that, and I'll talk to you as long as you need. That's like I said you're not bothering us. If we start to think it's a bother, then we'll get a different occupation. I mean, that's our calling in life or something here. But yeah, we're here to help you and you know, David, sets are electriccom, Easy to remember.

Keith Cutter: 55:04

Yeah, what a concept. Returning people's calls and no machines really.

Dave Stetzer: 55:12

I hate those things, so I don't want anybody else to have to go through that stuff. You're going to get a real person. No AI here.

Keith Cutter: 55:20

Fantastic Dave. Thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it.

Dave Stetzer: 55:23

Thanks for having me Fantastic. Dave, thank you so much for your time today. I appreciate it. Thanks for having me Sure.

Gweneth: 55:35

The EMF Remedy Podcast is a project of EMF Remedy LLC. We'd like to be your trusted guide for achieving a better EMF environment in your home. The contents on this podcast are provided for informational purposes only and are not intended to substitute for the advice provided by your doctor or other healthcare professional. It is not intended to be, nor does it constitute, healthcare or medical advice. Opinions of guests on this podcast do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the EMF Remedy Podcast.