Reflections

In this episode, Portia, Tashana, and Ingrid reflect on their first HEARD interviews and discuss what stood out; the diversity, equity, and inclusion ground they have yet to cover; and set some intentions for 2023. This candid conversation covers the gamut of topics, including complicated first impressions, tea time vs. happy hours, and one very nerdy joke from Portia. 

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Hi Acro community. Welcome to another episode of her. I have a little bit of a public service announcement in this episode, Tashana Porsha and I are reflecting on our first round of interviews with Doctor David Graham, Dr Keith Mays and Miss Patricia Scott. You are more than welcome to Dig right in and start listening, but you may want to stop here and check out those before continuing. All right, let's get started. My name is Ingrid Nuttle. I'm Tashana Kiss and I'm Porsha Lamar and this is going to be us reflecting on our first four episodes that we've recorded for the podcast. Um So kind of returning to our first episode and what led us here? That should be fun.-- That-- should be, I can't believe it's four already either which with content. It's amazing of where it all just this being a thought. And then here we are saying four episodes later, like the Black caucus table at AC 0 2021. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And to hear all the feedback that we have gotten is amazing as well. Um I wonder just how many other topics that we'll talk about. I'm learning. So much because we never entered in this thinking that we knew it. All right. Our whole purpose was to learn as well. Like we're learning with our listeners, we're just finding people to talk about these topics and ask the questions that, that's on our minds. Um What's, what's a episode that stands out to you all? I have taken so much away, I think from all of them. But I think the one I definitely keep on coming back to pieces of the episode with Doctor Graham where he talked about when he's not in the room, the room speaks for him because of the relationships he has formed and thinking about how that shows up differently for different people based on the access that they have to people. So that's like something I've been thinking about a little bit. And then with Dr May's, um I've thought a lot about how the history of de I surrounds the work without necessarily being something that is talked about explicitly. So like, I, I don't know, I've, I've thought um I thought about those things agreed and I can say like with Dr Keith Mays, I like talking to him when he touched on the 1960 civil rights movement and how diversity and multiculturalism like the grassroots of the de I and for me to know like the history that he put into it, I didn't know, I can honestly say that I didn't know de I was a thing back in the sixties and actually, even in the 19 hundreds because when he touched on the Harriet Jacobs story, you know, it goes back far and for us in 2022 going into 23 we're just, it's like now it's just a hot top. I mean, where has it been for decades? Maybe my struggle wouldn't have been as hard. Yeah, I, I wonder, I mean, and, and maybe to your, uh credit Shana, it might have not just been those particular letters because you've always had the N A AC P, you've always had the Urban League, I mean, not always, but those were um places and I'm pretty sure there are way more than I'm not naming that helped with the cause. You know, it's just now it has a, a catchier catch your name, catchier letters, you know, we always like to has limited characters on stuff. So and I think that was part of his point was about the, I mean, he used specifically the word appropriation but turning de I that was about like revolution into multiculturalism and like the evolution there and then that then becomes diversity, equity inclusion as this umbrella, which again to tie it to some of the things Dr Graham said about even the room speaking for him. I just think about the power of um if of sharing that history and that context with people so that when you're not in the room, people can bring it back to those origins and like, teach and educate about the implications of, oh you think you're talking about this thing that we're just talking about here? But no, in fact, you're talking about something that has these deep roots and that people have been fighting for that. There's, there's, I don't know, connections between those interviews for me and you know, um Doctor Keith Mays, he also said something to me that's really been resonating in my head. He said, why diversity, why is diversity a smokescreen for education? Like what does that really mean? And that's really been in my head a lot. Wow. Wait. OK. Now say it again and then tell me what has been in your head. What is your thought? OK. So going back to what we said as far as you know, once you said the N A AC P and all of these other organizations fighting for the cause and with de I in education, just like a new trend. Why is diversity a smokescreen for education? What does that really mean? Well, I think part of what he was talking about and I would have to go back and listen to that part of the interview is that it's somewhat is that it has the danger of being performative. So if it has roots in revolution and social change, the way that it shows up in higher ed institutions can become more of like a nod or performative or a box to check where it's like, oh, we have to educate people, people about these ideas as opposed to actually affecting changes to structures that affect people's lives or their lives in the workplace. So it's, it's like a smokescreen for doing the revolution, right? I can definitely see that. I can definitely see that because I feel like um you know, just in my experience, a lot of the the the uh sessions that you go to, to learn about this and learn about that. But then the fight that you have to actually um show diverse hiring practices or getting your um demographics on your employees like that is, is to in my experience has been hard. So it's just like, yeah, we're, oh, that's deep because yes, we are, we're doing all the good things to show on the outside that we are learning de I practices, but we are absolutely not using them. And by we are not saying the institution not working at, I'm just saying overall, we're blowing smoke up the well, and at the same time, he also was not dismissing like the impact that those efforts can have. You know, like he wasn't saying like, oh, and we shouldn't have committees and we shouldn't have people working around de I he was saying, be honest about what is possible and about the change that you can affect and the importance. And this was the theme I would say through all of the interviews, right? Like two through um Miss Scott was, where are your allies? Like, find people, find one person, find two people. And that if that is in a structure of a committee that that's not an insignificant thing because you can through relationships and through a common vision and through shared practices, like actually affect change over time. It's just that it in and of itself is a committee that you create that, that doesn't check the box. That's insufficient. So, and you know, when you say like Miss Scott, I know when she was talking about when she made the change in the law school, she had a team and they went out and recruited all of these minority students to help the law school. So they actually, like you said, she put together a team and they just went out there and did what they had to do. Yeah, that allyship is a crucial piece to all of this work. Um And, and it's, it's the culture that you create as well as leadership. What, what type of culture is in your establishment in order to make these changes. If we just have a culture of just having these little sessions to learn and not implement anything, we're not there yet. But let's address why. And that and that to me sometimes I haven't seen it. Well, in my experience, I haven't seen get us, get over that hump of even addressing having those tough conversations of why are we like this? What do we need to do to change? I would be interested to know if any, like I, that's why Miss Scott's story was good because it was just like, oh, wow. You know, to see someone at the end of it, not that it's over or? Yeah, that was the only change we need and that's done. But you did something and now someone can reflect on that and, and move to another change that needs to be made. But why do you think if so if you have a committee of people around shared objectives and passion, right? Like even in things that we've seen in our own institution, why is it so hard to see sustainable change or why does it feel like it's so hard to see sustainable change even when you have a group of people that are committed to doing the work? Because we, you've seen that too, right? Or I'm assuming we all have, you know, a lot of times when you have that group of people that's doing the change. If one person retires leaves goes somewhere else, it kind of breaks the circle and then, and not all the time, but I have seen where this year we're doing great initiatives, but then a key player leaves and then the other key pills are still there. But oftentimes they're like, well, what do we do? And it's not consistent, it's not being moved forward. You know, that's like you have to pass the baton if you wanted to keep moving, pass the baton, don't take it with you, pass it to me so I can keep moving it on and then I'll pass it to somebody else when I'm ready to move the other direction. Um, and, you know, that's just my opinion. It's just a lot of people, when people leave, they take their knowledge with them, they take their energy, their passion. Um And that all held that group together sometimes, you know, more than often. Um But when they leave, it's a void and we see, but we see that even in just our everyday work, right? Like to me that, that is what um these offices do and, but there's a bright side to it too as well. Like the job never stops, the motivation still goes forward to continue your job, right? So how can we get that same energy when it comes to this work in, in Higher Ed? Um I don't, I don't know, but then it also made me what you were saying. Um Tashana made me think of the deeper levels of what allyship means. Um I guess I was just thinking of, you know, the people around you, they're your allies. But are those people on different levels, your allies? And that is an important thing because you can hang around the same people who have the same thoughts and beliefs as you. But who can make differences in that group. So when you say levels, you mean, you mean levels within an institution or an organization, they don't necessarily have to be at the decision table of making these, these plans, these ideas. But when it's time to be presented, are you presenting to another ally that can make these decisions and changes, you know? Yeah, which then gets to, that gets to de i issues because of access to those people. So actually, Porsha, can you talk a little bit? Um Like I'd be interested to hear you talk a little bit about your access to Dr Graham and then to, to Shana, I know that you report to Miss Scott, like maybe it would be interesting to, since you guys have those established relationships that might be interested, interesting to talk about how you got that access to people um who are influential-- and can make change.-- That is a good question. That is a really good question. Um Because I feel like it was a journey with me. I didn't come to my university knowing Dr Graham. If I'm going to be completely honest, it was annoying to me. Um And this is the only reason why it was because of the location of my cubicle that was by a very popular um meeting room from all different floors, they would just come to this floor to meet. Um And one, I guess my feelings was hurt because I felt like he was saying hi to everybody but me, he didn't even know me to say hi to me, but still I was mad about it. Right. And he was just, he's just, he's a, he's a very robust guy, like he's very loud. Ok, he's loud. And again, so now one, I'm mad because you never said hi to me. You said hi to everybody else? Two you loud doing it too. Like I'm however, um had a, had maybe one or two meetings with him. Not a lot. Um and I, I if I'm again honest, I feel like maybe the peon in the room, you know, that type of you, you see all this leadership but you know, you're not there and you just hear just on a different type of level. Um and it wasn't until um Rosalind Perry, she who is an acro member, um shout out to her, she's a great person to, to uh to know and hopefully we can talk too soon. Um But she was leaving Tashana and she passed the baton, ok. She passed the baton onto the DE I committee that we had and said, put her in there and I was like, ok, because she was leaving as a, as a member, she was leaving the institution. So I go in there and then the president at the time or the chair was getting ready to leave as well and I just didn't want the work to stop and um II, I kind of volunteered as a Tribune to take that position. Um And, and because Dr Graham was the um executive chair, the leadership chair, sponsoring that group. Um So that's how we got connected. So, working together on a similar, you know, cause got that connection, got that leadership. So, so there was my past baton moment that, that I didn't even realize until I talked it through. So great question. And then I think for me with Miss Scott, like you said, yes, I do report to her. Um She's over two units. So I am on the registrar side and for me with Miss Scott, she is like the best mentor. I mean, I've had great mentors in the past, but she is the mentor. I know we talked about sponsorship in, you know, in our early podcast. She is that sponsorship. She is that person that will take her staff person. If she see the potential of she see that you're, you know, want to get it done. She'll take that and she'll help me like she's helping me grow. She's helping me know who, who are the key players on campus, who are the key stakeholders in the community. Um She's, and she introduced me to a lot of people. Um And of course, with my work, I have to know certain people, but she definitely is someone that an ally, a sponsor, a mentor. Um And I'm going to stick by her until she leaves. And I told her if she leaves, I'm leaving with her. But I've had other great mentors, especially when I first started out in higher Ed. Um shout out to John Mason, Doctor John Mason. And at the time-- I thought he was a jerk. I just thought he was a jerk because-- I was so I was an administrative assistant and he was the registrar and I, I'm gonna get to my point but I just thought he was a jerk. Um But I did not understand, but now that I am in leadership, he was a great boss. I have a better understanding of why he did things that he did. So I take back the jerk comment today, but back in the nineties, yes, he was a jerk. But I did learn so much from him and he is the one that instilled professional development in my life. Um He made sure that we went to conferences, he made sure that we read articles um from the higher educational chronicles, like he just instilled professional development in me. And I really appreciate that, you know, with those type of people, you just hang on. Absolutely. Like I'm like, I don't even because of my positioning right now at the university. I'm no longer on that side of the house to be part of the D I and also um uh also leadership had changed. So the DE I committee is not there, they're working on different efforts to, you know, incorporate all that. However, I still make sure I have a standing meeting with doctor Graham because I I need his, his his knowledge transferred, you know, like that, that is, that's, that's my dude and I erase that when you hear it like act like I never said that because people will get a big hit. Well, I think that, that I actually think that the comment like Porsha, your comment about your first impression of him being annoying and to Shana, your impression ties to something we talked about that you said Porsha, which is at what point? When do you give someone a chance? Right? And that's a two way street, right? So like there's this first impression that we have of people and depending on their identity and how comfortable you are with them and how much they feel like they're familiar to you or whatever the barriers that we put up in front of people are the hurdles that they have to jump over in order for us to change our mind about them. Like that is so varying. And so I definitely think that a takeaway or something that I will reflect on as an action item of like related to de I with this conversation is to be careful of first impressions. And that doesn't mean that like, I think Dr Graham said this, he's like when someone shows you who they are, like when someone shows you who they are, believe them. But I think, recognize that someone's not sure knowing you who they are necessarily within the 1st 10 minutes. But you got to like, it's not black and white. You gotta like it's a nuanced thing. So, and also what he said was and I, and I actually have put this in the forefront of my thought process. Is that word Grace. Yes. Yes, we are all, as we said at the beginning learning, we are all learning and yes, Ingrid, if you continue to show me what you like, then OK, now I can, I can make but I can lend grace at least the first couple of times. And that's, that's a big thing. That is a huge thing for us to move forward in this whole topic of, of having these conversations of having a, a show like this because I mean, it may not have happened yet but I'm sure somebody, we gonna say something that we just didn't know and you, if you don't know, that's why I don't know how I feel about Cancel Cancel Culture. It's some horrific things that have been said. I'm not going to uh deny that. But at the same time, if someone didn't know, how do they learn from it, if you can't learn, if everybody's like no, take everything, remove everything, you can't do anything. I don't know. So that's just, but yes, Grace. We, we, it, it, I don't know how I would be here if it wasn't for grace. So I think that's a big thing. What were our first impressions of each other? I think, I don't, I felt that Tashana was uh quiet. Um And I was like, oh, I'm about to be the motor mouth and she might be like, and she might have to tell me to, to be quiet. But here's the thing though, I think Grace and then I also, I, I feel as if, and I'm not big on talking about myself, but I feel like I have a gift of, of, of quickly understanding who a person is. So I felt like Tashana was like, I'm quiet and I'm OK with it though. Like I don't, I don't need to be around everybody and do everything I can go with the flow and I'm OK, you know, um and that, and that was wonderful to me. And then after I had heard Ingrid, I had heard from someone else that you wanted to talk and I was like, OK, but I was like, I don't know. And then um didn't realize it was you until I went to your session. So your session preceded me meeting you and that already set the standard of who you were because you weren't, to me, you weren't talking from um a screen bullet points. You were just talking, you know, and I, I can just hear, I, I heard the passion and the realness you were honest with, with, you know, the fact that you're a white woman, cis white woman who was just trying to figure it out. But then don't want to be uh um perceived as the, the woe is me, white woman too, you know, so that to me was just like that said a lot. So that was my first impressions. I didn't have anything bad. I would tell y'all too, but I didn't, I know you would. I think my first impression of Porsha, I think she was, I was like, ok, um very personable. Um When she came over and said, who wants to talk on the to the lot, you know, to the people on the other side of Porsha, like you're very personable. Um You're very outspoken. Um and just you light up a room, you definitely light up the room. So I like that. And then for Ingrid when I was talking to you and you were talking about your um your master's program and things like that. I was like, you know, this is a cool white girl. I even went home and I was like, I met this white girl with these tattoos. She was like, oh my God. Then when you said that you, you know Baltimore, New York, I was like, OK, this must be a sister from another mother like she is so cool. So it was just for me meeting the both of you, it was just like seamless. It was like, OK, this is meant to be, you know, so that's why I always say my sister's in higher education is meant to be. I um first of all, that's an amazing compliment. But this actually makes me think of the importance of places like Acro to create different kinds of first impressions for people. So, like you said, Porsha, because my first impression of you, of both of you was really in the context of acro for you, Porsha. It was the webinar that you hosted and which I just found so powerful how you were framing the conversation because it felt like so honest and vulnerable to me in a way that I was like, oh, this isn't, I'm not like attending a session where someone's teaching me a best practice and coming from a place of being like this is I know all the answers and here's the thing which there's a place for that for sure in our professional development. But you were like laying bare a truth that I was like, oh, this is um this is a space that I am being that I have like a privilege of being invited to. And that just felt different to me, which is why I was like, I think I said to Adrian um ricker register at Ohio State, I was like, I want to know Porsha and then to Shana at the same thing like within the context of the acro conference at the Ferpa workshop. Um You were sitting behind me, I remember I was at that table and you were sitting behind me and you said you were from Baltimore and whenever anyone says they're from Baltimore, I just feel I like my, I my brain perks up because that's where my dad is from. Um Which was the thing that I brought up in the um Miss Scott's interview too, like that kind of connection. So instantly feeling like an opportunity for a connection with you because I was also wanted to meet some different people. It can be so easy to get in those spaces and just hang out with the same people all the time. And I think in particular at that conference because it was my first one after having left the profession for a while and to being there after my close friend and mentor had passed away, who was such a big believer in connection, I was like, I am going to do what Tina Faulkner would do and I'm going to talk to people. I don't know. And so that just stands out to me of those like the opportunity that a place like acro has to create spaces for people to bring their best selves forward so that people want to get to know them and move past and find solidarity. Even when maybe as you get to know them, you find out that there are things that you super don't agree on and that you need to challenge each other on. And that feels really powerful to me that, that is uh you know what that is really good. But do you have anything because I know we're not all there, we're not always trying to be the social butterfly, you know, what is it that people who go to those conferences, acros conference? Excellent conference. Um and feel like this is overwhelming. This is too much. Do you have, does anybody have any like, I mean, help for them to make a connection but not, you know, in the way that they feel comfortable in doing. So, you know, this came up at a conference I was just at because there was some feedback that was given that I think is relevant here related to people who are neurodivergent and how overwhelming it can be to be at a professional development conference where you don't have time to like, you don't have a place to go other than maybe your room where you can be quiet and where you can process and not necessarily having presentations given that are in the most accessible format um or having just like a variety of support structures for people that aren't like, I think we're all, you know, we're like extra we have extraversion tendencies, um even even quiet to Shana has some extra version tendencies of her own. And so like places like conferences kind of gravitate towards people who are willing to put themselves out there to make those connections like that becomes the norm. And so I think we have an opportunity maybe even in this conversation to be like, how is that super problematic for people who don't fit that, who aren't that way, who still need visibility, access sponsorship to participate all of those things? I don't, I, I would be, I would be very um open to hearing those. Um but people do in those situations. I do know even though I, I mean, I don't think that extroverts and introverts. Ok, so I don't know how far off topic we have gone, but I don't, I don't care at this point. Um It does not matter. It is just the how and the prac it, what the difference between the two is how long you can be around people and then what you do to recharge, you know, so even being that extrovert that I'm, I'm seeming to other people getting back to that hotel room was like, oh, you know, like it, it was a moment of my facial muscles can relax. Um I can just be in my own element and just breathe and I think that's, that's probably the key, just take some time, some moments for yourself. And then, you know, with that too, you know, we're all not, I love the conferences but I don't really want to do the after the socialization, the socializing part at the bar or I don't want to do that. I do wanna meet people but I don't, I think the environment will put people where they need to be like the party people. Y'all can go have your gathering over there. But what about all of the rest of us that don't drink, that don't party, that don't listen to the loud music. Why we can't have a tea, a tea chat over here. That way we can meet everyone like you said, Porsha at the different levels because we all don't party. We all don't want to hang over here. We want and we do want to network. We do want to meet people but on a lower key. And if you even think about it because I've always, and this was the way I was raised. You did not show your tail out. I don't care if it is after hours and you're not going to show your tail. And that was again, if we talk, we're here, we're talking about it. That was being a black woman at the workplace. So I was not afforded the opportunity to go. Oh my God. I got so wasted in front of my coworkers and I'm still able to work the next day. No, we looked at that as oh no, I'm not. You're not gonna catch me off guard. You just, you're not gonna do it. And here's why I have to do so much more to even stay here one slip this this won't be the slip, it won't be this. So, I like that idea of doing something else that might be something that we can. Um, I mean, I don't know, I'm pretty sure they're pretty planned for this one but something that we could put on, give to as a suggestion and put on the radar because you want to meet people where they're at, like you said, and we're not meeting everyone where they're at. If we're planning these certain events, that parties, I think that's the whole point of the conversation is that in so many areas of life, people aren't being met where they at and where they're at and with what they need and that the conversations we're having are surfacing all of the ways that, that shows up. And so when it comes to taking action, it's thinking about where, what is the thing? You can't do everything, what's the thing you're gonna focus on? So, have you all thought about where you might want to take different action based on some of the things you've learned through the four conversations we've had so far? I think that, uh gosh, what you said was, was real. And that's why I, and I've expressed this earlier, um, got into the committee work that I was doing because there's so many different aspects of de I and you can get overwhelmed trying to figure it out. Um, at this point right now, I feel like for me doing this podcast and just collecting all the nuggets I can, it is, is, is my work, my, my work at this point. Could it change? Absolutely. But at this point, I'm like, can we all just talk about it? Not just surface talk, not just Martin Luther King on the February or January. And then um all the three other uh black people that you talk about in February. Like, let's, it's a whole spectrum of a lot and it's not just African Americans, it's not just uh the Latinx like community. It, it is so many things. It's, it's, it's a lot, it's a lot. And I, and that's, this is why I'm doing this with you all because I'm loving this journey of le learning all of what it is to Shana. What about you? Repeat your question? I hope I-- headed out.-- I, I don't, Tashan have you, where do you think as you've reflected on what we've talked about? Where do you think you thought um you've had opportunities to take action or where do you want to take action? Good question. Um I need this part to be edited because I don't know.-- The answer can be, I don't know too.-- I 100% in which I feel like now this doesn't even need to be edited because it's OK to not know. Well, then, yeah, that's my answer. I mean, I don't think, I know, I didn't know like and again, I'm saying like, I didn't know as if like, I've been on this spiritual journey to figure out and this is where I've landed. No, it just so happened to fit me better. Like, ok, I mean, with the George Floyd murder and all the marches that were happening and stuff, I just, I felt some type of way not being there, you know, but then I was just like, uh uh that's not me and, and, and I feel like you don't know until you continue to do and try and this may be one of the avenues, what's another avenue to be determined to be determined? Yeah,-- I-- think that one of the things we're doing that is different with de I for me is my focus has previously been a lot on things that I can measure. So hiring or um like in, I would say probably particularly hiring when I worked in the office of Information Technology, that was like a big thing. We would get market availability information for um for bo and for like by gender to see like, OK, it is your applicant pool, represent the available market. And so like, those are all things you can measure, then you know, who you bring in for interviews and you know how you're tracking. And I think one of the things we're doing on this podcast and what I'm really interested in is more in the area of inclusion, which I'm sure there are things that you can measure. And I, and I know that there are, there's engagement surveys, there's cultural climate surveys, you know, campus climate and maybe, and I think that's something we're going to talk about maybe in a future episode. But I think the reason I say, I don't know is because where I'm finding myself gravitating towards is more in the feeling space and less of the stuff that I can point to a metric and be like we're here and I want to get to here and that's going to take us 10 points to get there. And this is these are the three things I'm going to do to get to those 10 points. But I do feel like talking about it and creating an environment where we cannot know and where people feel comfortable being vulnerable and also understand that their individual journey is not ubiquitous, which again, we've talked about like that is, that's the stuff that feels right to me to take action on. So how do you think you would go about taking action? Hm. I mean, like Porsha said, showing up and having these conversations with all of you. I think about all of the topics that we haven't covered yet, right? One 100%. I'm like, it's so many things and, and so even as when we're doing our planning for this and thinking about what we're gravitating towards us topics and who we're not talking to, right? Like the only people, we have talked to only people from our institutions which has to do with access that's available to us and what we think we can accomplish. Right. Well, that's all well and good, but that's not going to serve the acro community. So our next conversation is going to be with someone who's not here and we need to expand that. So I think that's how by constantly re evaluating.-- But-- I also think too as we learn throughout our journey, that will help us as far as who we need the contact. Because for example, Pha and I was just on and acro um the Black caucus and I learned some things just talking to the 12 members that was in there, which also I gave, I sent Porsha a chat saying, hey, we need to talk to such and such because again, as we're in these meetings, as we go to these webinars, as we learn these different things that will give us more content to talk about because we're still learning when it comes to de I, there are so many different levels um that encompasses so many different types of people. Um It's a lot, it's a lot. We're still, we're learning and we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna get through them. I like how you said it. Uh Ingrid, it's our access and it's also, I mean, if we're honest, it's our, it's our comfort as well. We are, I'm going to be always very comfortable talking about, um, African American issues. You know what I'm saying? Because that's, that's me and I'm trying to, but I, I need to get out of that. I need to, I need to, um, look at, at other things that I may not, um, I might not be part of that community and that's ok. I can still learn though. And, and yes, I, it has 100% sit, not sit well with me that we have not done better. Now again, I feel as if we are putting a lot of pressure on ourselves. What we just said, it's only been four episodes. But I just, but I still feel and I think this is just overall, overall in this work of di I, I've got to do better.-- I've got to do better.-- Well, we talk about what we relate to, you know, you, you talk about your experiences, what I, what I relate to. So yes, there are other conversations but my experience, I'm a black single parent woman in higher education, you know, like it is, again, we talk about our experiences and what we can relate to. I can't relate to being a white woman, single parent. I can't. So there's nothing for me to talk about on that topic. I can maybe, you know, have empathy because yes, we are women, but I can't really elaborate on the challenges or the obstacles that a white woman, single parent goes through. Yeah. And that's why it is crucial that our listeners understand that this is for all of us. So if you have an idea, if we are missing something suggested, that does not mean that you have to be on the show that just gives us something to work with because we may not have known. And if you give us a topic, then we can do our, our, our homework, we can do our research. We can, we can find someone. But yeah, this is, this is an an US and definitely an US thing instead of just a three of us thing. Like this is the whole entire acro community. And to Shana, you said you can't relate to it. But what you are doing, the action you're taking is providing a space for people to come and talk about that and to expose other people to it. And our next episode is going to is the result of someone sending us feedback. So I'm excited to record that um in a couple of weeks. So let's set a goal for you to set a goal for 2023. What's your goal? What's your goal for this space for 2023?-- OK. I I liked it but I didn't like it when you turned it on me.-- I got it. You want me to start. So I'm going to bring it back to doctor David Graham and I don't want you to tell him because I don't want him to get a big head. But I think that my goal for 2023 is to get uncomfortable like it. Yeah, I like it. I I can, I can, I can get uncomfortable with you and I can add to that vulnerability just be more vulnerable and it, and it's ok. This is because this is what this space is supposed to be designed for. And I will add to both of those and I will say allow grace, good, allow grace for myself and for others, secure your own mask before helping others.-- I can't wait for 2023 ladies.-- I'm for it. I'm glad I'm going to the New Year with you all, but that will never really make it to midnight. I'd be as sleep. But yeah, me too. Who needs to see the ball drop anyway? Oh, I guess Tashana can just see it out of her window. Let's be honest. Let's be honest. Being in this side of the universities,-- how far advanced are we? We were already in 2023.-- It's true. We have been planning for 2023 8 years across multiple years. At the same time.-- We are living in the future.-- Exactly. Happy New Year is like uh oh, you finally got here. Catch up. Must, thanks for listening to HD. A podcast sponsored by Acro. We'd love to hear from you, share your episode ideas or feedback for us at HD at acro.org episodes are produced by May Oa Inna. Thanks. May oa, we'll see you next time.