Immigrants Wake America

In this episode, we are joined by Shruti Jain, PhD Candidate in the English Department, and Le Li, PhD Candidate in the Translation Research and Instruction Program, at Binghamton University. The two of them host the podcast “Immigrants Wake America,” and released the first season last year, which allowed storytellers to share stories about migration and the centrality of immigrant women in their lives. We will discuss how they first came up with the idea for the project, their collaboration with the Tenement Museum in New York City, the goals of the podcast such as combating the recent rise in xenophobia, and what listeners can expect in season 2. 

Shruti is also the former host of this Confluence podcast so it is a pleasure to have her back on the show.

Transcript

Joshua Kluever: 0:00

Welcome to Confluence humanities in the public sphere and is sponsored podcast where we discuss various public humanities projects on Binghamton University's campus and elsewhere. I'm your host, Josh cleaver. My guest today are shooty Jain, PhD candidate in the English department and La li PhD candidate in the translation research and instruction program here at Binghamton University. The two of them host the podcast immigrants wake America, and released the first season last year, which allowed storytellers to share stories about migration, and the centrality of immigrant women in their lives. We will discuss how they first came up with the idea for the project, their collaboration with the Tenement Museum in New York City, the goals of the podcast such as combating the recent rise in xenophobia, and what listeners can expect in season two Shruti is also the former host of this confluence podcast. So it is a pleasure to have her back on the show, shooting in LA, thank you for joining me.

Shruti Jain: 1:00

It's so nice to be here. Happy to be here.

Joshua Kluever: 1:03

So before we jump into this amazing project, and I should say I've binged all of the episodes in the past week, I want to start by having you guys just introduce yourselves and the work that you do here on campus. So Shruti, let's start with you.

Shruti Jain: 1:18

I'm sure Shruti Jain. I'm a PhD candidate in the English Department.

Le Li: 1:22

I'm Le Li, I am a PhD candidate in the Translational Research and Instruction program trip. Since

Joshua Kluever: 1:30

you both come from different programs, English and trip, what was the starting point for this project? And how did you come together to collaborate on it? So

Le Li: 1:40

first, we wanted to to share that our the project that we've been working on is a public humanities project called immigrants awake America, which is a podcast that features storytellers speaking about migration, family work, and often about the centrality of immigrant women in their lives. So the idea for this podcast came very like organically for both of us. Like early er graduate Korea, we took a graduate course, community curation and archiving offered by Dr. Lisa Yun. And the course is called Community Engagement theory and praxis. In that course, we studied storytelling, and its role in humanities and community engagement. And besides learning, like the theory and ethics of engaged the scholarship, we also explored the digital archive of immigrant stories called your story, our story, which is housed at the Tenement Museum in New York.

Shruti Jain: 2:54

So we were done with like a semester of this course, which was a part of coursework for both of us. But we were not satiated, we were hungry for more. So we kept reading, we did an informal independent study on archive theory with Professor Yun in the next semester. Sometime during the course of this, we came up with the idea of working with the Tenement Museum, to turn the stories in their digital archive into Sonic art pieces was learned. I spoke for hours on the phone about this before we even pitch this to anybody. Both of us believed that the podcast form offers archives, the possibility to be more dynamic, it allows one to pay attention to not only what's being said, but also how it's being said. The sound, the accent, the texture, the timbre of the voices of the storytellers was really important to us. Also, like the increase in hate crimes, we wanted to do something to fight against the anti immigrant rhetoric quite prevalent, then, as well as now, while we were studying the tenement museums, archives, the Atlanta shootings happen on March 16 2021. This really prompted us deeply to use the resources we had access to in order to facilitate some sort of an intervention. So with this in mind, we applied for the Humanities New York Public Humanities grant, and started the podcast.

Joshua Kluever: 4:28

Yes, and I think what you said about hearing the voices of the stories themselves and the you know, hearing, like how you said that the timbre of the voice really helps people to really feel that they're there and sitting in the room with people as they're telling these stories. And it's a very powerful way to express the stories that are that you guys were using in the Tenement Museum. Can we speak a little bit more about kind of the framework of the podcast itself, it seems that there's kind of a combination of kind of sit down interviews where you guys are in the room Asking questions. Or sometimes it's just a conversation between two people that aren't yourselves. And so can you kind of speak to that decision making process of how you wanted to have the episodes kind of either be a conversation, or more of like a sit down interview?

Shruti Jain: 5:17

You're right. All our episodes are really quite different so far, and even the second season we'll have a range of different episodes in terms of like the form and the approach to the episodes itself. Most of the episodes in the first season are conversations with two storytellers who speak about similar themes or topics for example, food, Grandma tradition, etc. Two episodes, featuring two separate episodes featuring Gujarati and Alison feature one storyteller in each episode. We also have an episode with recall and story where we not only have the storytellers we call on to share their grandmother's stories, but we've also added voice recordings of their grandmother into the podcast which they had stored and archived. So really, it has kind of dependent. It has been dependent on what the stories themselves bring to the podcast how the storytellers want to frame things. It's it's been a collaborative process, from there and as well. So

Le Li: 6:22

there was a lot of like back and forth, required on this front initially picked a lot of storytellers and the stories based on our initial ideas. And then we sat down with Katherine Lloyd, the vice president of programs and interpretation at the Tenement Museum, and with Dr. Lisa Ling. Both of them like have been our advisors and executive producers. They've helped us realize all our creative goals and ambitions. So together, we came to, like deeper ideas about who, like the storytellers we that we need, we wanted to narrow down and to reach out to, and then like the, pairing the storytellers by based on the themes or topics. And then we came to the conclusion that it will be best for us to act and not as a hosts or interviewers. But as an facilitators, because the story tellers, they own their stories, we offer cues and questions, and their storytellers go on to share whatever they choose to share. And we make it a point to get to know them and build a relationship. Before we actually even get to the recording stage stage. We set up like multiple meetings where we just chat and get to know each other, which is crucial to the like Ethel's of this project for us. And we also like imagine ourselves to be a part of the very community we are working with. As

Joshua Kluever: 8:05

I was listening to the episodes, I kept asking myself, Where are shooting in LA and these recordings, but as you just mentioned, you were there the whole time, getting to know the storytellers and making them feel comfortable enough to share their family history and their stories. I think that's a great lesson for anyone listening who wants to do similar projects concerning storytelling, memory or interviews, that building a comfortable and trustworthy relationship with the people you're trying to listen to is very important. Can we dive into how you decided who to talk to for this podcast? Were they other people that took the course with you originally? Did you look for storytellers that were already in the Binghamton area or on Binghamton's campus? So can you speak to that?

Shruti Jain: 8:54

This is such a crucial part of the process. Besides learn myself, I don't think we worked with anybody else who took that class. In fact, our relationship grew way beyond the scope of the classroom. You're right in thinking that we wanted to work within the New York State area at large and groom County. In particular, every storyteller has some other connection, or at least every episode has a connection to Broome County, if not every storyteller themselves. So that was definitely a factor. But I think ultimately, this was also a really collaborative process among learn myself, but also talk Lisa Yan and Catherine Lloyd. We went through hundreds and 1000s of stories in the your story, our story archive to shortlist a few that would probably work for the form of the podcast. Catherine Lloyd was really generous and instrumental and she put us in touch with the storytellers who shared their stories on the digital in the digital archive. Some of them responded Some didn't. We had to replace those who didn't respond with other storytellers and repeat this process. Eventually, we had all our storytellers. We then went on to pair the storytellers depending on how their stories and their personalities would sound together on the podcast itself. So after many rounds of many months of free thinking and meetings, we were finally able to get to the recordings. With the help of the staff at the museum, we've been able to trace and contact some of these storytellers and invite them to share their stories on the podcast. One of the first things we noticed in this process of meeting with the storytellers was that the depth and the breadth of their stories expanded way beyond what was archived in the museum. That was really rewarding in the end.

Joshua Kluever: 10:49

So can either of you give examples of some of the guests you had on Season One? And what really stuck out to you about their episodes? I'm

Le Li: 11:00

sure. So for example, we have this episode, called the box of her stories. The narrator is Alison Wong. In this episode, she talks about the box of letters, she found a while cleaning her closet.

Joshua Kluever: 11:19

Here's a snippet from that episode.

Allison Wang: 11:23

Yeah, so it was a summer day. And I think my family decided to just do some deep cleaning, and invite the new season. But after like each firm, we cleaned and in the closet that we were cleaning, stored away that box of letters, and it was actually in a suitcase. It was like it looked very ancient. And once we opened it, we were like, astonished.

Shruti Jain: 11:56

So you had no idea that you had such a box in your house. Now

Allison Wang: 12:00

I didn't I literally that was my first time seeing it in the house.

Shruti Jain: 12:06

And I think the thing is that when we contrast an episode like Alison Long's, which is so much about going back and figuring out your own family's story and so many little details about your family's journey. It's it's an great contrast with an episode like girl ratties, which is also about a journey

Joshua Kluever: 12:27

Goretti Mugambwa is an immigrant case manager at the American Civic Association in Binghamton. Here's a small portion of that larger conversation.

Goretti: 12:36

Previously, I was a refugee case manager. That's when we're resettling so many refugees from different parts of the of the world. But currently, that program stopped. But when the Afghanistan there was problems in Afghanistan, we tried to help the churches that were resettling them because the churches could do it directly. So currently, we have some there are some families from Afghanistan, coming through the churches who sponsored them that we are being part of and helping, though they haven't come yet we have, I think we received only one family so far right now we are still waiting for for the clearance from the Immigration Department.

Shruti Jain: 13:17

Just these two episodes give us a good sense of how diverse the kinds of stories and experiences shared on the podcast are. There's a lot of celebratory narratives such as bond with our immigrant mothers, where we have our storytellers share the stories of their grandmothers and the cooking and you know, the memories that that gives rise to. And then we also have episodes like the gift and burden of tradition with Max and Cole Joe, there, who are who both students at Binghamton University, again, share the kinds of complicated relationship one tends to have with one's immigrant history. It's both a gift and burden at one sometimes.

Joshua Kluever: 14:07

And either of us speak to the importance of collaboration to this project, not just the the work that the two of you do together, but the collaboration with other individuals, organizations or groups in the community.

Le Li: 14:20

Sure. So we were lucky that we have had like multiple parties who helped us in this process, but the credit for helping us establishing establish ties with the local community goes to Professor Lisa Ling. She has been working with the Tenement Museum and the ACA, American Civic Association for many years. So she helped us reach out to to them and like truly supported our project from the start from the very beginning. From from that we we were able to have connect Action to build our relationship was like both the Tenement Museum and the American Civic Association. Then, now Now for our second season, we are collaborating with the ACA, the American Civic Association in Binghamton. So this is like, like I just mentioned, another organization that professor has been working with for several years. In the process of awesome working on the project, we have built a relationship with both organizations and the and the staff in both organizations, and we've become a community like part of the community there. We on top of that, we also have had help from Professor Barry Brenton at the Center for Civic Engagement at BMT University who like helped promote our project in wedding like local community. Because I

Joshua Kluever: 15:57

listened to the entire first season in quick succession, I picked up on some repeated themes throughout the episodes. And the thing that stuck out the most was the theme of food. Every storyteller had a memory of either their grandmother, or their mother cooking food for everybody else in the community. So I wanted to hear your thoughts on why Food plays such a vital role in our own memories. You're

Shruti Jain: 16:20

right, you're absolutely right. It's it's a crucial part of the podcast. It's a crucial part of all of our lives. Also, I think learner and physician and all of us are really passionate about cooking and eating and sharing food with each other and stuff like that. In fact, for me, a lot of the inspiration to work on this project came from this rice cooker that I had got from India when I moved here in 2020. And for really stupid reasons, my partner and I ended up breaking that rice cooker. And that was probably the most tragic part of coming here and working as an international student and everything associated with the rice cooker and memories and whatnot. It just felt like a disaster and something that you could not get in the US in Amazon, which is not true, you can get it here. But there's just something about bringing that thing from India. And I think this works at so many levels. Food is such a part of our everyday lives as well as our sense of self. Right? It's not limited to the act of eating alone. associations with associations of food with belongingness care and a sense of security begin at the very level of ingredients, right? Certain foods are from certain areas because of what traditionally grows there. So you already have a part of the ecological makeup of home embodied in the ingredients itself. The process of using the spices, the aroma, the memory of how it's done back home, Asher's in familiarity and fondness. And I think ultimately, what's most important is how food has the power to assemble and gather people. Whether I mean, I guess the Thanksgiving table is a big part of the American consciousness for similar reasons, that be it a kitchen full of family and friends, or a dining table with a lot of chatter, or clanking of utensils, food really brings us together. And I think this is why one cannot overstate the place that food holds when examining feelings of belongingness.

Le Li: 18:35

Exactly, just to like, add a little bit to what should he just mentioned about food and a part of ourselves, ourselves? Like me, personally, I so I'm like Chinese. And I, like I eat Chinese food every day. And one time a friend of mine mentioned that looks like you eat Chinese food. Like too much. I'm like, I'm Chinese. And then the like, this is what I'm girl that I grew up with. And this is like part of me, I cannot say, Oh, I don't like Chinese food just to be, quote unquote, American. No, I'm Chinese. I'm like, I'm always going to be like eating Chinese food. And I love Chinese food. I love the culture and the love. What that like part of the culture.

Joshua Kluever: 19:26

Yeah, it's just food to you. It's not just China. That is the food that you kind of, you know, you grow up with it's part of your culture. And I think surely the way that you described you know, just even the noises involved in cooking. Yeah, all of that I think really comes across and the passion that you're the people that you interviewed, you know, talk about cooking in their family. Is there a petition to change it to immigrants bake America because food is such a central part of this podcast? No,

Shruti Jain: 19:55

we will have a third season with you as one of our producers and QA immigrants make America Josh's addition.

Joshua Kluever: 20:04

Perfect. I'll hold you to that. Another thing I want to touch on is you both mentioned how you're both international students here at Binghamton. And I was curious, perhaps how this project has made you think about your own family stories and your own histories. They're a little bit different because you are experiencing kind of the immigrant experience coming you know, leaving your family behind and coming here to study at Binghamton. But how has producing this podcast really made you think about your family stories.

Le Li: 20:35

So this project like itself is very close to both of us. Like it's also very close to our like other team members like Professor Lisa Ewing and new member, maman, Rodriguez. We are all in some way or another immigrants or descendants of immigrants, like myself, I, I did my second master's in Australia and then came here to America. The whole process I feel like a lot of times I'm trying to unconsciously seeking a sense of belonging. And like this project that definitely has given me the sense of belonging, like, like working with a Shuddhi Professor being a Maman and all other people involved in this project. It feels like home like to me home away from home. Yeah. So like, we have like complicated relationship with the idea of the US to say the least, right? The project help us helps us I'll share what immigrants but immigrants or refugees or international students will look like, like in their glories, flaws and strengths. And it also help us like see ourselves and makes us feel seen.

Joshua Kluever: 22:05

So what are the plans for season two? What can people what should listeners kind of expect and look forward to in the season and perhaps you can also, one of you can speak to the hopes that you have that people when they listen to this amazing podcast, and I hope all of our listeners are really going to go out if they haven't listened to it already, are going to go and listen to it. What do you hope the big takeaways from this project are

Le Li: 22:30

the second season season two is called hidden heroes in a small town is a season of stories about caseworkers at the American Civic Association in Brampton, which is upstate New York, who assisted refugees and immigrants. And this season will be like accompanied by a community resource guide that will be made available to the public on the website for teaching, research and the community programs. As a part of this project, we like have already organized a cross organized organizational workshop at the ACA, where we invited Katherine Lloyd, from the tema museum to share her knowledge about community archiving and curation. At your story, our story in the Tenement Museum, we will be furthering ties between the ACA and the Tenement Museum with a field trip that we organized for the ACA staff in the coming months.

Shruti Jain: 23:35

I think for both the season as well as the second season, one of the main goals has been to have the audience to start reconsidering the definition of immigrants and to think about their own families. migration history is after listening to our episodes, and that, in turn may hopefully combat a lot of the anti immigrant rhetoric. Most of the times when we hear or talk about the word immigrant, people are associated with new immigrants and with a sense of a negative connotation. But in fact, most Americans are more or less related to immigrants. We believe that storytelling in the form of podcasting allows us to find similarities and differences between ourselves and others, and offers a humanizing counterpart to these demonizing narratives. All in all. We are, of course, really proud of the first season and we believe that what we have coming up in the second season is really unique and we could not be more excited. listeners can expect to hear caseworkers the staff at the ACA talk not just about their work with immigrants and refugees in the Broome County area, but also talk about their personal journeys in the second season. We really believe that seeing first and second gen immigrants in positions of influence like the ACA can be truly empowering. We hope that people are left inspired by these stories of resilience, joy, and empowerment. And lastly, our listeners can also expect more episodes hosted by Dr. Yan as well as Mormon Rodriguez with our newest member. Like I said, we're excited to be expanding our team expanding our project. And hopefully we'll have a third, fourth and fifth season as well.

Joshua Kluever: 25:23

Awesome. Well, Trudy in law, thank you so much for being here and agreeing, and I should say Shruti Welcome back to the podcast. And it's great to see you as a former host i It's kind of podcast inception. It's a podcast about a podcast. And sooner or later, we can just continue this. This entire atmosphere of podcasts interviewing each other in the future. So thank you so much, both of you for being here.

Shruti Jain: 25:50

Thank you so much, Josh. Thank you. This is surreal for me due to from being on that side of confluence to this side. It's actually Surya thank you all

Joshua Kluever: 26:00

for listening. If you'd like to know more about Shruti and laws amazing project, you can listen to immigrants wake America, wherever podcasts are found. Links will be in the episode description. Season two will focus on hidden heroes in a small town. Once again, Confluence is sponsored by the Institute for Advanced Studies in the humanities. If you like what you hear, please leave us a review on your podcast app of choice and share it with family and friends. We'll be back soon with more amazing public humanities projects.