Episode 100: Liz Allan and Jonny Berry - Charging Solutions, Fleet Experience, and Electric Vehicle Community Building

Episode 100: Liz Allan and Jonny Berry - Charging Solutions, Fleet Experience, and Electric Vehicle Community Building.

Liz Allan speaks to Jonny Berry, the Head of Decarbonisation, Innovation and Strategy at Novuna Vehicle Solutions, on the 100th episode of the Electric Evolution Podcast.

Jonny shares his wealth of experience in the electric vehicle (EV) industry, from his early days with Nissan to his current work supporting the transition to EVs for some of the largest fleets in the UK. They discuss exciting developments at Novuna, like hosting open days for workplace charging installations and plans to launch a public DC charging site. With discussions on policy changes, fleet management, and engaging experiences at events like CarFest, they also touch on overcoming challenges and criticism in promoting EVs and the importance of building a positive community, as he and the team have with the EV Cafe. 

Jonny Berry Bio:
Jonny Berry is a distinguished leader in the electric vehicle (EV) and sustainability sectors, dedicated to decarbonising transport. As the Head of Decarbonisation at Novuna Vehicle Solutions and the founder of the renowned EV Cafe, Jonny brings a wealth of experience and passion for promoting electric mobility and innovative charging solutions. His efforts have been recognised with accolades such as the prestigious Nissan Global CEO Award. At Novuna, Jonny leads initiatives to support fleet electrification, expanding charging infrastructure at workplaces, depots, and public locations, and enhancing the overall EV experience. With a visionary approach and an unwavering commitment to sustainability, Jonny works tirelessly towards a greener and more sustainable future.

Jonny Berry Links:
Novuna Vehicle Solutions: https://www.novunavehiclesolutions.co.uk
EV Cafe: https://www.evcafe.org
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonnyberry

Episode Keywords:
Workplace charging installations, depot charging installations, Electric Vehicle Experience

Transcript

Liz Allan  [00:00:00]:
So this is a really, really special episode for me, and I've got a very special guest who I've been hounding for months to join me on this podcast. Months and months, probably since I started. This is episode 100. I can't I can't believe it. I have Jonny Berry on here, and he is. I've been hounding him for ages. And I'm gonna introduce him properly in a second, but I still can't believe that this the the episode 100, we're here, and it just blows my mind. And you are it's you I we wanted to have you on here, Jonnny, because of the fact that we've been hounding you so much. And I just thought, you know what? 100 episode.

Liz Allan  [00:00:49]:
It's gotta be you, really, hasn't it? So thank you. Thank you ever so much for joining me. Finally, thank you.

Jonny Berry [00:00:55]:
It's my pleasure. Because this has certainly paid off.

Liz Allan  [00:00:59]:
Actually, I've gotta say, I've gotta give it to Michele, my friend and coworker and number 2 at Full Circle, for going at this is in March, wasn't it? Yeah? She popped out from behind me while I was talking. She said, "We've wanted to get you on the podcast for ages. Do you wanna come in number 100?" So there we go. We're here. Okay. So absolutely. Absolutely. Hey.

Liz Allan  [00:01:28]:
I'm on why am I saying absolutely? I'm honoured to have you on. It's brilliant, honestly. So I'm just gonna give you a little introduction. For those of you that do not know Johnny Berry, right, he is the head of decarbonization, innovation, and strategy at the Novo Novuna Vehicle Solutions. He's the founder of the EV Cafe. We all love the EV Cafe. And this one is he's the only one who've he's the final one for me to interview on this podcast as well. So that's the other thing.

Liz Allan  [00:01:58]:
He's been a Greenfleet EV champion in 2020. You're, and this stuff just blows my mind. You were awarded Nissan's Global CEO Award while working at the group as the EV business development manager. You've gotta talk about that in a minute. You've worked in the automotive sector for 10 years now. And the final thing is, you're this is probably merely the first podcast you've been on, isn't it?

Jonny Berry [00:02:27]:
This kind of podcast, definitely. Many internal ones, but not many external ones.

Liz Allan  [00:02:33]:
So yeah. 

Jonny Berry [00:02:35]:
And I don't think anyone wants to listen to me, Liz. That's why.

Liz Allan  [00:02:37]:
Oh, stop it. Of course, we do. Goodness me. So listen. Thank you. It's just it's it's absolutely brilliant to have you on here. And, yeah, we had a little chat before we started recording. So, yeah, it's it's just wonderful.

Liz Allan  [00:02:53]:
And I want to know and I want to get you to give everybody a little bit of your backstory. I always talk about people's backstory. So so before you start you started working at Novuna. You've you've got this this award, this Nissan Global CEO award. What was your journey to get to where you are now?

Jonny Berry [00:03:13]:
Blimey. Go back way back.

Liz Allan  [00:03:16]:
It's a small question.

Jonny Berry [00:03:18]:
Yes. Yeah. So I guess it all started while I was at university. I've I've I've just start by saying I've always had a passion for mobility, particularly cars, fast cars at that.

Liz Allan  [00:03:30]:
Okay.

Jonny Berry [00:03:32]:
And, I'd always been quite creative. I'd studied art, I wanted to design, you know, more industrial stuff. So naturally I studied that at University in Kingston. What I found was that I was really interested in the full life cycle of a product, where the materials have come from, perhaps even the carbon embodied, what impact that's having on the environment and to us as humans

Liz Allan  [00:03:56]:
Yeah.

Jonny Berry [00:03:56]:
And so that love for, you know, all that sustainability stuff and my passion for cars resulted in me being in the decarbonisation of transport space, right? So I guess it all started from me writing a dissertation the viability of EV coming to the UK and that was back in 2010 or something like that. Yeah. And actually some people at Nissan head office had seen that I published this on Linkedin and wanted to talk because they were immediately about to launch their 1st generation of Nissan LEAF and they were looking at rolling out an innovation specialist program across their top performing Nissan dealerships. And motorline happened to be one of the largest franchises at the time, which is now owned by Marshall's Group. So and actually at that time, I was privileged enough to be offered a job at Tesla as well at their first site. I think it was Wes Drayton at a time when Elon Musk was rubber stamping everybody, so a long time ago. And, the the couple of things that I'm particularly proud of and and demonstrates that creativity side, is at university I also built a new method of construction and furniture. I designed a new method of slip casting which got told off for originally and then it worked.

Liz Allan  [00:05:14]:
You got told off?

Jonny Berry [00:05:16]:
Yeah. My other claim to fame when I was because I'm very proud of that history is that I also helped and designed and built the furniture for the Bilban Tower during the Olympic games. So Wow. Quite a highlight of my career, but, and then then, I got sucked into the auto manufacturers, you quite rightly say, 10 years or so ago, and once you're in the auto manufacturers, it's hard to get out.

Liz Allan  [00:05:41]:
But,

Jonny Berry [00:05:41]:
I've only been in the EV space. So yeah and I I no surprise that I chose to work with Nissan. I felt that they had a little bit more to offer with their Nissan LEAF, a bit more of a an affordable product at the time.

Liz Allan  [00:05:55]:
Yes.

Jonny Berry [00:05:56]:
And it turned out to be the right decision really, Liz, because as you quite rightly say, I, picked up the Nissan prestigious Nissan Global CEO Award. Thank you.

Liz Allan  [00:06:06]:
I was clapping them for those of you listening.

Jonny Berry [00:06:09]:
I am so proud of my achievements quite rightly, and why I picked up that award was for the 3 years I consecutively worked in that position. I had actually sold more Nissan Leafs and Infu 200 than not only anybody but any sort of a country, you know, and I found it quite easy, to be honest. It was quite an easy sell to businesses when they had the right down allowance and Yeah. You know, their credentials but also to individuals that are coming in to buy cash guy. Well, actually, you know, they can save a ton of money and save the environment by driving a Nissan LEAF. So I find it I embraced it and, you know, ever since, just been in the mobility space when it comes to the automotive industry, and it's just gone from there. Should I carry on my career there, Liz?

Liz Allan  [00:06:57]:
God, yeah. Yeah. Come on.

Jonny Berry [00:07:00]:
After that I I realized that, you know, that was it was focused on retail and I I definitely felt like I needed a bit more fleet experience and I felt that fleets are the ones that are going to have the biggest impact because they're the ones that are doing more mileage,


Jonny Berry [00:07:14]:
You know, they represent quite a large portion of the vehicles on the road today. So, and Renault gave me that opportunity. So I was responsible for the southern region of the UK with EV fleet sales, and again hit some pretty big milestones, you know, big companies taking their first sort of, you know, dipping the toe on EV with Renault, you know, with big orders. So that was really, really good, and I really enjoyed my time at Renault, but I quickly came to the realisation that actually product is product, right, for fleets, but the one thing that they really needed help with was charging infrastructure. So And I think Renault recognized this. So Renault built, a subsidiary company called Alexent at the time, formerly known as Alexent, wholly owned subsidiary company of the Renault Group and now what is known as today as Mobilise Power Solutions. Okay. So I felt that I was gonna have a bigger impact by moving over to Mobilize and actually supporting fleets with their actual charging requirements.

Jonny Berry [00:08:25]:
And I felt that there's a long way there still is a long way to go with that for lots of different reasons, and I felt that it wasn't just what Mobilize were doing in terms of workplace and depot charging, it was more than that. So I needed a platform that was going to enable that for me and I felt that actually, at least in company like Novuna was absolutely perfect. Match made in heaven really because I was able, given the platform, to support every single type of vehicle, every type of driver, every type of operations with their charging requirements, not just sticking a charger at home. You know, so so and I've been there for years now with Navuna, and it's yeah, where the decarbonisation piece with Novuna is is very broad, and there's a lot of good stuff happening in the industry individually. We're bringing them all together. It's all about collaboration and providing just that one place for any types of charging, whether it's workplace, depot, home, public, sharing of networks, whether it's different delivery methods of electricity, whether it's different types of access, whether it's business criticality, you name it, list goes on.

Liz Allan  [00:09:35]:
Wow. Oh my god. So go on. Give us a little bit of, what is a day in the life of Jonny Berry? Or is it so different every single day

Jonny Berry [00:09:46]:
Yeah. That you

Liz Allan  [00:09:46]:
you know, there's so many but kinda on an average day then, what what what kind of stuff you getting involved in?

Jonny Berry [00:09:53]:
Yeah. So it's a good question. So if I take today for example, doing a podcast.

Liz Allan  [00:09:58]:
Yeah. 

Jonny Berry [00:10:00]:
For the very first. And, probably the rest of the day, I will be catching up with the team regarding how life is going with the currently existing network that we have today. I will be talking to the project teams about, how we're progressing with some of the projects we've got going on at the moment. So at the moment, we've got some projects around transport management systems, new ways of procuring charging, so that's leasing, stuff like that, charging infrastructure, monetisation of projects. So that that's that takes up large portion of my day. So I've got a little customer, I've got a bit of projects, a little bit of operations, a little bit of fun stuff like this with you, Liz. And it's unusual that I'm in the office actually because I do find myself all over the country during the week, the working week. Like, only last week I was speaking at the EV Summit, in Oxford.

Liz Allan  [00:10:55]:
Yeah. And I missed you. We were on I've got to say, sorry. We were on holiday last week. I was gutted. I was gutted that I missed so many people. I kinda saw how many people were there, and I was just like, oh, for god's sake. But I was in Brittany.

Liz Allan  [00:11:08]:
So I was actually enjoying this.

Jonny Berry [00:11:10]:
Was it?

Liz Allan  [00:11:10]:
Yeah. I was. FOMO whilst on holiday doesn't sound right, though, does it?

Jonny Berry [00:11:14]:
No. It sure doesn't. So

Liz Allan  [00:11:18]:
Okay. So you get involved in all of these things, which is and it's it's growing because so the and you opened the hub, like, you opened a charging hub last year. Did was it last year? Was it earlier on this year?

Jonny Berry [00:11:33]:
It was September last year.

Liz Allan  [00:11:35]:
Gosh. So it's been open quite a while. Yeah. Like, remind me where it was and tell me?

Jonny Berry [00:11:40]:
Head office in Trowbridge. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:11:42]:
Of course.

Jonny Berry [00:11:43]:
So we we call it travel hub EV charging showcase site. It's been different names throughout since September. The reality for that site is that a lot of our clients are on the start of their journey when it comes to electrification. Right?

Liz Allan  [00:12:01]:
Mhmm.

Jonny Berry [00:12:02]:
And so there are lots of pain points throughout, such as charging. There's a lot, you know, whether it's energy, suitability, matching architectures, whether it's the suitability of vehicles, you know, the list is quite vast, to be honest. And so, you know, and also there's an element of Novuna wanting to put their money where their mouth is. So if we're going to do that for our clients, we wanna try it and do it ourselves first. So we designed this, trophy showcase site a little over 2 years ago actually, but we can not only support our own demographic of vehicles, company cars and vans that we have on-site because we are specialists it's a specialist site as well. We have a vehicle preparation centre but we also demonstrate all these existing technologies that are available today for fleets that are suitable for industrial use. So, yeah, at the electric vehicle charging site, we have solar canopies. We have, battery storage.

Jonny Berry [00:13:00]:
We have an integrated energy management system. We have what I call sort of very robust and secure AC charging in the name of AlfinKit, and we also have some innovative brands like Zaptec and Easee, doing things slightly differently but able to provide a more low-cost engineering approach. Then we also have on the other side, so we have AC there and then on the other side we have DC charging. So we have DC charging in the forms of portable where we can move them to vehicles and charge, on-site. We do that with Chem Power and Nortel, Eco Energetica and various other companies. then, we have a dedicated en route charging hub, which is a satellite system connected to a big power module. So it's very clever in that it disseminates power to satellite connections. And the purpose of that is for 200-kilowatt charging, of course, and that element for more heavier, more specialist vehicles, but also, for us to go down on a journey for a journey, which is about reg learning about regulations and compliance, about monetizing public charging, because now that's out, there's a lot to consider when you put charging infrastructure in the ground, and we need to learn so we can make sure we make the right decisions for when we implement infrastructure for our client sites. Because no doubt, especially if they're gonna be out for workplace charging, it's expensive.

Jonny Berry [00:14:29]:
The capex is high. They might wanna monetise certain ways or support their local community, whatever it might look like, or even share between corporates. So it's a big site, and I definitely invite you down, Liz, to take a look at anybody that's interested actually on your on the back of your podcast is always welcome to come and learn, crucially learn. That's what it's about.

Liz Allan  [00:14:47]:
So is it is it open is it open to the public then? Or do we have to kind of would we would I would people like myself and anybody listening who wanted to join, you know, come down, would we have talked to you and and sort of, like, actually have, like, a showcase day?

Jonny Berry [00:15:02]:
Yeah. So we do have we do hold a couple of open days throughout the year. So those that are looking to get workplace or depot charging in installations, and we'd be more than happy to host them down on-site. It's a good thing, you know, again, learning. I I like I I likened it to I don't know if you remember, but in Milton Keynes, they had the EVEC, the Electric Vehicle Experience Center.

Liz Allan  [00:15:25]:
Now do you know that's a little bit before I started getting involved in this, but I did hear a lot of good stuff about it, to be honest. Yeah. So yeah. And it would have been very close to me.

Jonny Berry [00:15:35]:
Yeah. It was it was a great opportunity very early on, Liz, for people to go and in an impartial environment, not gonna get sold to, to experience electric vehicles. Right? So I kinda likened it to that, but for businesses. So but we can't have anybody just turning up randomly.

Liz Allan  [00:15:52]:
No. No. However,

Jonny Berry [00:15:55]:
When I was mentioned about the DC charging site, the sort of super, the ultra-fast rapid charging, come September, October, that will be open to the public for anybody

Jonny Berry [00:16:05]:
To come and use. So again, we will do what we say we can do, test it, and support the local community as well.

Liz Allan  [00:16:13]:
Fantastic. So, right, if you aren't listening or watching this, when this goes live, which it it's gonna be fairly soon, why don't you either message Jonny, would that be alright? Yeah?

Jonny Berry [00:16:26]:
Yes, please.

Liz Allan  [00:16:27]:
Maybe through LinkedIn or email or actually message me, and maybe we can have, like, a group expedition.

Jonny Berry [00:16:34]:
That would be good.

Liz Allan  [00:16:35]:
Down to the site. That would be fantastic. Yeah, we'd love the Electric Evolution day out. I love that.

Jonny Berry [00:16:42]:
Perfect. That's the second part of the podcast.

Liz Allan  [00:16:45]:
Yeah. Oh, that'd be fantastic. So when you opened it last year, I think the reason I couldn't make it was that you probably know what was on the same day, don't you?

Jonny Berry [00:16:58]:
Yes. Yes.

Liz Allan  [00:16:59]:
There was an EV EV Cafe day, partners day, and yeah. So my apologies, but I know there was quite a lot of people who who came who came to it. But, yeah, I'd love I'd love to see I'd love to see the site. It sounds brilliant. So it obviously, you've got that as that's the showcase. Yeah. So you're showing that to businesses who are coming in. Have you got when you're thinking about moving this forward then, are you intending to kind of open other showcases around the country, Or is it just specifically implementing the fleet solutions including charging, you know, for your customers?

Jonny Berry [00:17:40]:
That's a good question. We have other offices. The vehicle solutions offices are based in Trowbridge and Newbridge. We have other offices like Staines, Telford, and Leeds. They, too, are going to get really good charging infrastructure, but it won't be for the purpose of a showcase site.

Liz Allan  [00:17:57]:
Right.

Jonny Berry [00:17:58]:
So, I think the showcase site will always remain in Trowbridge because we have had the opportunity to do that.

Liz Allan  [00:18:03]:
Mhmm.

Jonny Berry [00:18:04]:
But we're kind of moving on from there now. So we are looking to trial new products there on-site. We're also looking to trial, new product at some of our client sites as well. Fantastic. So yeah. Because it's it's fast paced. Market's so fast paced. 

Liz Allan  [00:18:20]:
Oh, it is. I've never known anything like it. I really haven't. I've we had this conversation about our ages, didn't we? Yes.

Jonny Berry [00:18:27]:
And and

Liz Allan  [00:18:27]:
I'm gonna share with everybody, I thought Jonnny was older than he is, which I'm so embarrassed about. 

Jonny Berry [00:18:39]:
No.

Liz Allan  [00:18:40]:
And yeah. I have never known a sector move in the way that this is. It is just amazing. Mhmm. So so kind of, you know, move seeing seeing it move forward the way it is is just fantastic. And speaking of people like you, like I say, episode 100, I've spoken to a 100 people on this podcast, including my husband. But I speak to him every day, funnily enough. 

Jonny Berry [00:19:10]:
I've had it for four days of continually talking to people. I don't accept this.

Liz Allan  [00:19:17]:
You can tell I like talking, you know. My first my first job I'm just gonna digress. I told you I digress. My very first job was because I'm from Halifax, it was at well, I call it my first proper job. It was at the Halifax Building Society because most people in Halifax weren't there at some point. And I didn't do that well there because I talked too much. That was, like, in their Deeds Admin, which was kinda not particularly exciting. But, yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:19:44]:
So this is perfect for me. But but let's let's come back to what you what we've been talking about with you. So so you're it really sounds like what you're doing is really innovative with the customers. Who who the what size customers are you working with at Novuna then?

Jonny Berry [00:20:06]:
So we're we're talking to and working with, and contracted with some of the largest fleets in the UK. So a number of them representing the top 50 fleets in the UK. And so, yeah, you the innovation piece is are so important. As I say, we have a team dedicated on the innovation piece and we're talking to about new ideas every week, new companies, new startups, new ways of working, new new products. And what we're looking to do is address all of the challenges, all of the pain points from all of the fleets. So what you tend to find is that a lot of the big fleets is that they first and foremost are going to look at what they can do in their own locations, so, in the depots. And within the depots, there's so many challenges, Just that alone. So you've obviously got your energy.

Jonny Berry [00:20:56]:
You've obviously got business criticality. Whether that sucks, you can set up to have charge points. You've got capex barriers. You've got certainty of tenure. You know, they might not know if they're gonna be there in 5 years

Liz Allan  [00:21:07]:
Yeah.

Jonny Berry [00:21:08]:
Or they might or they share the sites or whatever it might look like. So that alone is what we really do work hard on as a foundation for some of our clients because that's what they're doing right here right now.

Jonny Berry [00:21:20]:
2nd piece of that is, well if we if we if we can't do it there or we've got some vehicles that return to home, how can we support charging at home? And just putting a charge point on isn't enough. They need to think about reimbursement. They need to think about if that charger goes wrong, are they gonna get visibility of it? Are they going to have SLAs attached to that? Because, you know, worst possible thing could happen is the charge stops charging or something goes wrong, and we've got no SLAs attached to it, we don't know anything about it, we can't do anything about it, and that vehicle's off the road not earning money. If the wheels aren't turning, they're not earning as they say. So

Jonny Berry [00:21:53]:
And the third piece of that is can't charge at a depot, can't charge at home, or what do we do? So public charging perhaps, but it's it's a much it's more expensive energy.

Liz Allan  [00:22:04]:
It is.

Jonny Berry [00:22:05]:
Quite rightly. Might not always they're not always set up to take on big vans. There's no real certainty that they're even gonna get to that charter when it's available, working, whatever it might be. And I know the legislation is a great thing. So we have to think about all these 3 key areas, really, not just workplace or depot charging, not just going, hello, mister customer. Here's a great company. Go talk to them. Or try to cover everything and say, you need to go to this company, this company, this company, this company, this company.

Jonny Berry [00:22:33]:
Trying to say make it easy for these clients to just transact with Naveona and we'll take care of the rest. Mhmm. Yeah. And it can be very difficult. There's so much going on.

Liz Allan  [00:22:43]:
I was gonna say because I suppose more you've got multiple customers. You are mapping the multiple customer journeys, aren't you? Depending on what types of fleets they have, whether they've got vans, whether they've got trucks, whether they've got cars, whatever. And then you're mapping probably where everything where everything is, how it's working, and and looking at the solutions for that.

Jonny Berry [00:23:04]:
Absolutely. Yeah. As you quite rightly say, that's the bit that matters the most is what you've just said. Trace and dwell data. So you we have to start with that. Where are the vehicles sit when they're not working, they're not in operation, where are they situated, and can we get charged that vehicle then Wherever it might be.

Liz Allan  [00:23:22]:
Do you know what? And as a business improvement person, that totally ticks my boxes, I've gotta say. That kind of analysis piece. Yeah. It's just, you know, it is is just brilliant. And, actually, if you're kind of to me, it's like looking at, a 1,000 piece jigsaw, isn't it?

Jonny Berry [00:23:39]:
Yes. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:23:40]:
Where you're kind of you've got little bits there and you've gotta fill that bit in there and then you've gotta fill that bit, you know. And it's just starting to kind of and then, obviously, because everything's moving forward so quickly, it's that the the puzzle's growing, isn't it? So it's going from a 1000 to.

Jonny Berry [00:23:54]:
It's funny you say that because, when we launched the, Trobridge showcase site in September, the way I described it, I know you weren't there, so and I know we didn't record it live, but the way I described it was the electrification puzzle.

Liz Allan  [00:24:11]:
We're on the same mindset. Yeah.

Jonny Berry [00:24:12]:
I feel the same mindset there. Yeah. That's a, good way of describing it for sure.

Liz Allan  [00:24:18]:
Definitely. That no. It's it's fantastic. All the stuff that you're doing, you know. The next question I wanna talk to you about is the EV Cafe because this is a whole conversation in itself, isn't it?

Jonny Berry [00:24:32]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:24:32]:
You know, you are you are the founder of of the EV Cafe. Why did it come about? What was it? From what I understand, it was it during lockdown that it happened? Tell tell me tell me what happened for you to actually think, oh, I need to I need to have something. I need to do something to talk to people. Yeah. What was it?

Jonny Berry [00:24:54]:
Yes. So, I'm very entrepreneurial, which really helps with what I do, and I just I  guess I saw a few things on the back of the first announcement of the first lockdown, which was essentially, we need to keep the conversations going because we still have to do this, and arguably, it's more important than COVID, you know, in terms of particularly around air quality and the premature deaths around air quality and, the longer term piece here. So the 1st week of the lockdown, I did a number of things to begin with if I'm being honest, Liz. I did it every day. I did a video about EVs.

Liz Allan  [00:25:41]:
Did you?

Jonny Berry [00:25:42]:
Every single day. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:25:44]:
I don't remember.

Jonny Berry [00:25:45]:
At the beginning, I was like, I'm gonna do for this month of this lockdown, every day, I'm going to give you one fact about EVs. I did it with my Renault Zoe out the front of my house every single day.

Liz Allan  [00:25:53]:
I love that.

Jonny Berry [00:25:56]:
And, safe to say that my camera roll on my iPhone had about a 1,000 videos because I just kept take retake retaking.

Liz Allan  [00:26:04]:
Perfectionism. There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Jonny Berry [00:26:12]:
So, yes. So I was with Renault at the time, EV Fleet Sales, and so predominantly, I wanted to still be in front of businesses talking to them about EVs and decarbonisation of transport and all that sort of lovely stuff, and they weren't willing to, have a conversation with me when they're trying to keep their business in operations quite rightly. So I wanted to create this, kind of safe place that anyone could tune in every single week between 12 and 2 on Adobe, and every single week, and we would talk about a number of topics related to EV. So no pressure, anyone can come on, we'll have some guests on, and we'll have a conversation almost like a drop in surgery. And give credit to a guy called Matthew Kiziak at the time. He also worked for Renault. He was responsible for the northern part. He was fundamental in supporting me with this project, thought it was a bit mad at times, but it was great. You know, we had, a fair few hundred people tune in every week, and it did much more than just keep the conversations going.

Jonny Berry [00:27:12]:
It brought people together, it created a community, it helped people that were struggling to be isolated from the world, had something to everybody to look forward to during the week. I was losing out because I felt that every Monday and Tuesday, I was stressing over Wednesday. I was like, Oh. Coming up to Wednesday, I'm thinking, is Adobe gonna work? Because it was so temperamental and

Liz Allan  [00:27:36]:
Tuesday. This is this is pre Zoom. This is pre-Zoom, is it?

Jonny Berry [00:27:40]:
It was a nightmare. It was an absolute nightmare. Yeah. We crashed Adobe numerous times until we got onto Zoom. It was like it could zoom could handle it, you know. But as soon as 200 people entered the room, it was crashing. It was buggy. It was crazy, and I remember I had John Curtis on, and it was only me and John because no one else could get in, and there was Oh no.

Jonny Berry [00:28:01]:
People were on the call were just me and John chatting rubbish mostly for 2 hours, but people still stayed on. People still listened. People still asked questions. People people got into the conversation. So it showed how important that that was, as a platform, not just as a business, but as a community and supporting those that are isolated. And I never in my wildest dreams thought it was going to be what it is today for sure. I did not expect that. And naturally, I knew that people can get fed up just listening to my point of view.

Jonny Berry [00:28:33]:
I needed somebody who would represent fans, sustainable travel, charging fleets, and good voice. And so, over time, over six months, I brought the team together, what makes the Evie Cafe team together. That was the right decision. I will say this, though: Sam Clarke was the last one to join.

Liz Allan  [00:28:52]:
I heard. I heard. Is there a reason for that?

Jonny Berry [00:28:57]:
He came on initially as a guest, and he loved it so much. I think he messaged me pretty much every single week to say, can I be part of the team? Can I be part of the team? And don't think in the back of my mind, yeah, I quite like it to be that part of the team, but I wanna make him sweat. I'm gonna keep him asking for weeks.

Liz Allan  [00:29:14]:
That is hilarious. I love that. I love that. Oh my god. They are such a brilliant team you've brought together. I think do you know what? I've got to admit that I found lockdown very, very difficult. You know? I'm married to, as you know, I'm married to a professor of climate science. He's quite happy on his own, and my son was he was quite happy as long as he had the Xbox and he could do schoolwork.

Liz Allan  [00:29:45]:
I hated it. I hated every single minute of it. I'd not been able to talk to people, just did me in. You know? So so yeah. Actually yeah. I can imagine that it would have brought so much, joy to people, you know, just just doing that.

Jonny Berry [00:30:03]:
Fortunately, during lockdown, 2 weeks before lockdown, I had my first child Sienna.

Liz Allan  [00:30:11]:
Oh, blimey.

Jonny Berry [00:30:13]:
All week. Yeah. So again, one of the other stresses of Wednesdays is that, babies don't stop crying in the background. It's often the case.

Jonny Berry [00:30:25]:
But I feel I feel a little bit guilty about my, my 1 year old, she turned 1 on Saturday because she didn't get the time that Sienna got obviously, because of the homework the whole time. But yeah, So for that reason it was a good thing appreciating that for most it wasn't a good thing, but I never worked so hard as well, Liz to be honest. You know, we have the EV Cafe, we have videos, we're trying to keep things going , and the rest of the employees are furloughed. I thought I couldn't think of anything worse than being furloughed. That's, yeah, different experience for different people, I guess.

Liz Allan  [00:31:00]:
Yeah. Exactly. I mean, I did a lot of things online, so being self-employed at that time, I was running lots of online exams for apprenticeships because they were business improvement apprenticeships. So actually, I was talking to people like we are now, but it's just not it's just it wasn't the same, you know. 

Jonny Berry [00:31:22]:
So it'sjust not the same. It's still not the same. You know, I'd much rather be having this conversation with you, Liz, over a coffee in hand.

Liz Allan  [00:31:29]:
I know. Exact exactly. It's that personal, that face-to-face level of communication makes such a difference. But talking about making such a difference, you and the team have done that, you know. All of the stuff that you've been doing with kind of like the EV Cafe Village at various different locations and the partners and things like that. You're it's funny. I shared a friend of mine who doesn't know this sector whatsoever, and I shared something that made me chuckle. I think JC had put it on, and she didn't know him. And it seemed really weird that she didn't know him.

Liz Allan  [00:32:08]:
Do you know what to mean? It was kinda like she went, is that is that funny then? I was like, yeah. It's really funny. She's like, oh, okay. You know? But it go on. Sorry.

Jonny Berry [00:32:20]:
I was just gonna say it's it's it's, you know, we have our we have our ways of going about our webinars and our podcast don't we? And it probably isn't for everybody but, yeah. I mean we're not your traditional webinar are we? That's that's the thing about the EV Cafe.

Liz Allan  [00:32:39]:
I love I love Sam's face when you all go "runner". And even you're a bit like that, aren't you as well? It just makes me laugh so much because, like, that kind of tortured look in Pam's eyes of, like, really? Do I have to do that again?

Jonny Berry [00:32:56]:
I think we're so serious in our day to day professional lives. It gives us that outlet to be a bit silly and we're all friends really.

Liz Allan  [00:33:04]:
Are you sure all the time because sometimes there's a little bit of friction isn't there?

Jonny Berry [00:33:08]:
Yeah. Particularly between Sam and Paul, they have their disagreements. I do find that particularly enjoyable to watch, though, if I'm being honest.

Liz Allan  [00:33:17]:
It is. It is. Oh my goodness. No. As as a team, it's, you know, all the stuff that you're you're doing and getting the message out about electric vehicles and everything around decarbonisation just is making, such a difference. What would you say because I know I think am I right? Have you are you gonna be having, a a place at CarFest? Is that happening?

Jonny Berry [00:33:46]:
Yes. Yes. We are. Yeah. So we are exhibiting at Car Fest. So we'll have our own ED cafe area, and we'll be there for the whole weekend. 

Jonny Berry [00:33:55]:
All of us will be conducting some panel sessions as well, but I think we're a nice fit for that environment because we are quite relaxed. We're happy to take those people who are interested in cars but not quite sold on electrification just yet to come and chat to us about all the different things around it. We're quite, I'd say we're quite qualified to do that.

Liz Allan  [00:34:17]:
Absolutely. But do you but you because I mean, obviously, with a kind of, a thing like Car Fest, you're also looking at lots of massive petrol heads as well, aren't you?

Jonny Berry [00:34:32]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:34:33]:
No. How do you guys feel that you can cope with and cope isn't the right word. Manage and handle that kind of level of negativity and I always talk about this on the podcast and it's been going for so long. You know, we've seen that media hype and all that negativity come out. Mhmm. What's how are you gonna be able to counter that?

Jonny Berry [00:34:58]:
Yeah. So so we actually fry the flat, to be honest.

Jonny Berry [00:35:02]:
We do. Myths and people challenging us with pretty much the same questions, dressed up in different ways, but, and I personally do. So I could focus better on panels and conversations when somebody asks me a specific question, but then they catch fire, then they just get thrown away. I haven't got enough range to go down to South France at once a year or whatever it might look like, and you know, business have different different questions, you know, more so related to their operations or their sites and stuff like that. Mhmm. So actually for us to be in car fest environment, it's quite good for us because it is outside, as you can't rightly say, it is quite outside the church walls. We don't want people to talk to us them that already love EV's really. We do. We want to create that community for sure, because we can all help each other around, get a positive message out and challenge, that negative rhetoric.

Jonny Berry [00:35:56]:
But, where we wanna do our webinars and our shows, personally, I wanna be talking to the somebody that comes along, you'll never get me into an EV, mate. Oh. Oh, okay. Let's have a chat on, you know, challenge accepted.

Liz Allan  [00:36:08]:
Absolutely. And that in itself is amazing, isn't it? Do you know, weirdly enough. So it's not it wasn't particularly a good story to start off with, but our car stopped charging. We've we've got a used Hyundai Ioniq Hyundai, whatever you wanna call it. And it stopped charging, so we had to have it in it was it was in for repair for about 6 weeks. Luckily, we got a Polestar 2. Amazing. I've just loved it.

Liz Allan  [00:36:32]:
But anyway, that's just me getting excited. And my neighbour who's in his seventies, who's a real petrol head even at that age, is like, I quite like the look of this car. I like this. And I went, do you want to go for a do you wanna go for a little ride with me? We'll just kinda go around Reading and he said yes that'd be great. And he looked at the boot and said Oh, he's got the right size for my golf clubs, stuff like that. And he said, well, I do really like this. It kind of ticks the ticks the boxes. But then I got the but, But I'm not there just yet. But I just stopped but you know what? Actually, Jonnny, the thing was he was he was further forwards.

Jonny Berry [00:37:13]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:37:14]:
That that's to me, that's the main thing. He was further forwards. To him, that Polestar 2 kinda ticked his boxes. It was the right size. It really I should've seen his little face. In I couldn't go fast because, the M4 was, because you're you're you go to Newbury sometimes and it's not far from Reading. And there was a 50 mile an hour speed limit on it, and I couldn't really do much really, really with it. But just that and it hopefully, it'll be the same with you guys at CarFest even if you move people a little bit forwards in their thinking.

Jonny Berry [00:37:47]:
Mhmm. Yeah. Absolutely. It does remind me of the Nissan days, what you just said there. It was because when we were, sending Nissan LEAF or the NV 200 for that matter, we would offer anybody an extended test drive 7 days. Anybody can come and do it. And those that did buy Nissan LEAF, we would offer a friends and family deal, so they could, offer it to their friends or we'd offer, like, a quite good generous referral because they talk about it like you have. They'll take their neighbour out in it.

Jonny Berry [00:38:16]:
They'll do this, they'll do that. But the Polestar is definitely more desirable than the 1st generation Nissan and Ford Spirit was like the G-whiz that came before that.

Liz Allan  [00:38:25]:
Yeah. But it's just, again, it's just and like I say, looking at the technology that's coming through in all the cars, You know, even our little I was I call it an old Ioniq. It's not it's 2021, so it's 3 years. You know? To me, it feels old when you see it like something like a Polestar. But, you know, I can defrost the demist the windows from inside when it's cold and things like that. And just that kind of evolving and emerging technology and just little things, you know.

Jonny Berry [00:38:56]:
All those all those benefits you get from driving it and, electric vehicle. Not just that it's a smooth drive and that you're gonna save a ton of money, but there's so many other benefits. And I think, like, for consumers for in the retail market, so who was it with Nissan or another brand in a retail environment, in a dealership right now, I would I think, I think they'd all the sales guys, they would need to embrace it because I saw a thing and it was I think it was Stellantis Group. They published their finance PCP figures for all of their vehicles and the electric variants, and they were the same price. So, essentially, you're saying that you there's no extra to get into an EV or that variant, yet you're gonna save tons of money, you know, and you're gonna get the benefit of it, all of it, as long as you, you know, it suits your needs, you have ability to charge a home. So, yeah, I mean, like, so that the what you're saying is really important because it's easy to get into them now, Easier. Exactly.

Liz Allan  [00:40:03]:
Just talk about when you said about dealerships though, I've just seen something, in the last few days on I I don't tend to go on Facebook too much, to be honest. It's there's 2 sites I look at. Well, one one main site, one of them is Wind Drive Electric. Yeah. Because I'm kind of I'm really interested in they they've got 3,000 members on on the Facebook group right now, which is amazing. And then there was another, vehicle, EV vehicle Owners Club, I think, UK. Yep. Yep.

Liz Allan  [00:40:31]:
And and there was a woman on there, and she'd had major problems with dealerships. And one of the I think she's in actually, she's in Skipton where my nephew lives. And the different dealership she went to where she's she was saying she's quite small, so I need to make sure that, you know, that it the seat is adjustable so that I can actually drive. But I need an I need a small SUV, blah blah blah. And she went through about, probably, about 4 or 5 dealerships that she'd spoken to. And some of them were saying, no. Just get a get a nice vehicle. Get a car, bush bust an engine.

Liz Allan  [00:41:07]:
That's gonna be better for you. And it's it's still and I've talked about this quite a lot. It's still that mentality in in kinda, like, you know, in the regular dealerships Mhmm. With regards to combustion engines. Mhmm. Yeah. You know? I don't know what where do we go? How do we make that change?

Jonny Berry [00:41:27]:
Yeah. So the only way we're gonna make that change is, we're gonna have to have the influence of the manufacturer or, senior level within that particular franchise because the sales guys, there was a phrase years ago that sales guys sell what they can see, not see what they can sell. Yes. So if they had a vehicle that they know they could sell and get it within this month and get commission, that meant more than getting that vehicle and getting that person to the right vehicle. Dare I say it. Now I'm not generalizing here, but so I think the bit that we can support the sales guys on is, is that, education first for sure. Get them allow them to get into the EVs so they get to experience it firsthand as well. And, also, the sales guys at the end, they're based on commission.

Jonny Berry [00:42:18]:
So make it sensible for them because they no doubt will need to spend a lot more time talking about EV than Yeah. An ICE vehicle. The ICE vehicle is easy. That's that's what it is. You know, you you've been driving that for 20 years. You know what that's like. But with EV, you've got to spend a lot more time. So they should be compensated for that.

Jonny Berry [00:42:37]:
So I think the owners should be on, the manufacturers and the wider group, to support the sales guys is what I would say in that respect. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:42:46]:
If we're talking about that then, do you feel that maybe the commission oh, god. I mean, this is another the whole whole conversation, but to me, it feels like the commission structure needs to change.

Jonny Berry [00:42:58]:
Yeah. Yes.

Liz Allan  [00:42:59]:
Now if if we're talking about something that's so new, if you've got peep it maybe they need to be in like you say, maybe they need to be incentivized to do that, to to learn, to sell EVs. And, actually, if they explain it in a and not just not just jump in a car and they go, Celia. You know, none of that. If they did more, then

Jonny Berry [00:43:27]:
Yeah. I

Liz Allan  [00:43:27]:
don't know if you can answer that question or not. I don't know.

Jonny Berry [00:43:30]:
Yeah. It's it's, every single manufacturer, every single dealership, even down to the actual dealership itself have their own sort of structure, but I think we definitely saw a change when we implemented these kind of things. All of the sales guys need to be in EVs, probably the right thing to do on benefit kind and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. They all need to undergo training. They also get properly compensated for it, and we did see a change in that, but it it still might not be enough. It might just be that we just need to win their hearts and minds and think about things differently, but that certainly helps.

Jonny Berry [00:44:08]:
Like, we've seen the company car world. Right? So company car world, you do things like the benefit in kind. You reduce it down to 0. People that didn't like EVs, they're gonna go and love EVs for that reason. So, yeah, but we want it to be the other way.

Liz Allan  [00:44:25]:
I get you. And also, like you said, we've you've talked about your own charging infrastructure that you're supporting, you know, you the your customers with. It's it's about it's about that kind of joined up approach, isn't it? Absolutely.

Jonny Berry [00:44:40]:
Yeah. Yeah. You said about your charger failing, whether that's the vehicle or the charger, and you've had to change the vehicle. For a fleet, that would be a nightmare. You think about the impacts on the operations. Oh, the shocking If we swap a vehicle out, absolutely fine. But if we just put a charge on, we haven't thought about that, then then it's the onus is on us, you know, and there's lots of good companies accounting for reimbursement or accounting for the services and doing their own thing, but we have to bring it all together and really consider the the operational impact if anything goes wrong. So

Liz Allan  [00:45:14]:
I mean, for for us, the the hardest the hardest thing because, you know, I'm self employed. I'm really the only one that uses the car because I'm, you know, I'm out and about consulting and and what have you. So so when I found out it was gonna be potentially 3 weeks to even get the car in for a diagnostic, I was just absolutely gobsmacked. And I've done some research since, and and apparently, the thing that seems to be lacking this is another conversation as well, but seems to be that there's, the level of technicians that there are generally and it's I'm not just talking about EVs. I'm talking about petrol and diesel. You know, the the dealerships don't haven't really invested in in that kind of, the technicians. Not I'm not saying Renault, you know, or wherever. I'm just saying across some of the networks.

Liz Allan  [00:46:03]:
So it's about it's about making sure they've got those people in place so that we shouldn't have to wait that length of time because that's 3 weeks of work. That's 3 weeks of salary in well, you know, paid work for me.

Jonny Berry [00:46:18]:
Yeah. I mean, we as, Navuna if I speak on Navoon's behalf, we have, like, a quite extensive pull through. So we you know, if anything goes wrong, we're quite we're able to react very very quickly, but we have to be in that position because one of our strengths is offering business critical services. But, you're quite right. Technicians, it could just be parts, you know. Some of the brands businesses love the brands, you know. I'm not gonna mention any names. They're fantastic brands, But if they their their downtime when something goes wrong or they have an incident and we're waiting on parts is is huge.

Jonny Berry [00:46:51]:
Huge. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:46:52]:
But time is money.

Jonny Berry [00:46:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. And something is to say, you know what, we can I think we're gonna see some big fleets go when you know what, we've had enough, we're not gonna do it anymore, we're not gonna put those vehicles on the road anymore because we just can't afford the downtime? And I guess that's the bit the challenge around the new entrants to the market. So whether they be Chinese OEMs or anything like that, to give some confidence to fleets and you, if something goes wrong I've got someone to take it and you can fix it. Yeah. That legacy OEMs have enjoyed for a long time, you know, if I went and got I know I'm focusing on Nissan and Stellantis, but if I went and got one of their products, I can drive 2 miles at the road if I have a problem and they will they will tend they will look after me.

Liz Allan  [00:47:34]:
Yeah. So lots of people Yeah. Hope hope hopefully, over time, it's I suppose it's a bit like, you know, it's such a massive change, isn't it? And it's not just the UK. It's it's across all the continents. You know? It's such a it's such a big change, like you say. You know, we've we've we've been driving combustion engine vehicles for over a 100 years now. It seems a bit weird, doesn't it? The fact that actually at the same time that they were introducing combustion engine vehicles, there were electric vehicles at the time really, really, really, really a long time ago. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:48:07]:
But but actually the change is so kind of massive. Yeah. It's a bit like and I've kinda likened it. I don't know whether you, know much about Henry Ford. So Henry Ford's kinda like the granddaddy or the great granddaddy of kind of improve improvement stuff. And he'd he'd said, when he was talking about introducing the model t, you know, or just the, you know, all of this, he was basically saying if people had asked me that they probably wanted a faster horse.

Jonny Berry [00:48:38]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:48:39]:
Yeah. You know, or they that's what they would have wanted. And actually, I think that's kind of where people are just wanting something like like the plug in hybrids and things like that. They they want they think that actually, well, that's must be okay.

Jonny Berry [00:48:54]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:48:55]:
Because it's because it's not it's not full combustion engine, well, but it's still polluting. Do you know what I mean? So it's it's it's that kind of stuff, isn't it? Yeah. But again, going back to the dealerships, it's it's up to them to actually be explaining this and explain it for the right reasons.

Jonny Berry [00:49:14]:
Yeah. It's, it's like what Jack Welch was quoted saying back, when he was, I think, his CEO of General Electric when the EV 1 was announced 20 or 20, 30 years ago now, he was like change before you have to. And I think that, you know, we're having to now, I think, because of the ZEV mandate, because of the, the ban that's pending and all that kind of stuff. But, yeah, it's, we've had 100 of years to get to where we are with refined diesel and where we are with the networks, and we're having to do things well, we've got 6 years and to get ourselves, you know, a little bit better. So it's a tall ask, so we've just all got to work on it now.

Liz Allan  [00:50:00]:
But you're kind of for what you're doing at NeVuna, yours is very much seems very much like best practice.

Jonny Berry [00:50:07]:
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like we just we've just realised, you know, not realized. But I think arguably one of the top sort of leasing companies that, yeah, realise that, you know, let's really listen to our customers, the voice of the customer, and let's understand their pain points. You know, we know they've got to go through this journey. Just passing it and you know, have building a team internally that knows this stuff, not just from the fleet side, but actually charging stuff. So we've got people in in our business that are just their whole experience has come from charging and energy and stuff like that. Never had an e fully.

Jonny Berry [00:50:44]:
That doesn't matter, you know. We need that experience, you know, we to to bring into this. Otherwise, you know, these fleets are gonna have a really tough time, you know, to to electrify. So I welcome all companies to try and do it the way that we're doing it, you know, because it's better for everybody.

Liz Allan  [00:51:03]:
So on that on that point, I'm gonna ask you my final question then. If you're look what would you like to happen in the run up to 2030? You know, we we so theoretically theoretically, we we might have 2 things happen. This well, one one thing besides the dev mandate, we might have a rollback of the 2035. The you know, obviously, the previous government has pushed the date for the ban on new brand new, combustion engine vehicles over up to 2030. With the new government, we might have it brought back to 2030, and that's when the ZEV mandate kind of takes it right up to, Is it a 100% by 2030 or is it 80%? 

Jonny Berry [00:51:49]:
It's 80% for cars. Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:51:52]:
So so where where what would you like to see in the run up to that? Do you want do you want the 2035 to come back to 2030? What are your thoughts?

Jonny Berry [00:52:01]:
I think I do want it to come back to 2030 so it's consistent messaging. I feel like manufacturers are being told one thing, which is LED mandate. The general public are being told something else.

Liz Allan  [00:52:11]:
Yeah.

Jonny Berry [00:52:12]:
So I don't think that's necessarily fair. So I I would welcome that. In terms of what I want by 2030, have you got a few hours?

Liz Allan  [00:52:22]:
I have love. We'll just have to meet for that cup of tea after all though.

Jonny Berry [00:52:27]:
It's it's quite a tall arc. I would say that, the support on vans has to be recognized a little bit more. I think it's quite clear there, you know, whether it's fiscal support, whether it's accessibility and charging, whether it's bringing that into the consideration of, regulation, whether it's the derogation of the weight limits of 4 and a quarter ton and what that means. So, yeah, I think there needs to be a bit more consideration not only on that bit on the vehicle side, but also the charging side for van fleets.

Liz Allan  [00:53:00]:
Yes.

Jonny Berry [00:53:01]:
And the support there for sure. That's the bit that I would definitely welcome to see.

Liz Allan  [00:53:07]:
Let's keep our fingers crossed. Hopefully hopefully the new government's sort of starting to move in the right direction. Before we started recording, we were talking about the onshore wind, you know, kind of lift lifting of that Yeah. Ban, you know, it's little by little.

Jonny Berry [00:53:24]:
Yeah. Like the appointment of Chris Stark, the the sort of climate expert to lead on the energy stuff is, is a real plus point. I mean, you know, I think, you know, we've only heard it's a great start by the sounds of it from them coming into to office, but I, by no means am I political, but for the noise that I respect from the likes of Greg Jackson, the CEO of Octopus, saying this is all a very good thing, means that we've got the right government in place to potentially make some changes there, but it's also up to us as an industry, to bring it to their attention, isn't it? You know, with the with so called experts, we should let them know. We need to let them know, and that's why, the British British Vehicle Leasing and Rental Association, BBRLA, have joined forces with the EV Cafe, Logistics UK, and various other part partners to create this van plan and and bring it to the attention of the government. So yeah. So yeah. It's it's a lot of work that they need to do, but it's a lot of work we need to do as well.

Liz Allan  [00:54:25]:
Yeah. I think it's it's it's about this is all about, like you said, collaboration.

Jonny Berry [00:54:30]:
Mhmm.

Liz Allan  [00:54:31]:
No. And and that that for everything that the EV Cafe stands for is about a collaboration, isn't it? Yeah.

Jonny Berry [00:54:39]:
Yeah. I'd I'd hate for anyone to think otherwise, really. I'd hate for any supplier not to be able to knock on my door and want to collaborate with us or thinking that Evie Cafe is one company. We yes. We have sponsors and partners to help us keep going, but they're just associated, you know. We're not you know? So that's a bit about the industry, because we have suffered in the past about not people not collaborating. Some legacy big oil brands are what will remain nameless, that have called a closed network and weren't willing to collaborate, weren't willing to open up their network, and they're suffering the consequences actually for doing so. So there's a commercial reason to collaborate too.

Jonny Berry [00:55:19]:
So Absolutely.

Liz Allan  [00:55:20]:
Absolutely. Well, listen. I just wanna say thank you. It's been it's it's been such a wonderful conversation. There are so many sub conversations that we could just carry on having, aren't there there? I said there'd be lots of these, but it's been it's been so lovely to actually finally get you on here. Thank you for being episode 100. I really, really, really yeah. I can't tell you.

Liz Allan  [00:55:48]:
Michelle's gonna be over the moon. Michelle Liddell is gonna be absolutely over the moon.

Jonny Berry [00:55:52]:
So 200 as well. Every 100.

Liz Allan  [00:55:55]:
You could be we could do that, couldn't we? Well, maybe next time I'll get all of you on, but that god. Imagine getting all the Eevee Cafe on that. I that'd be like Yeah.

Jonny Berry [00:56:03]:
In each ways.

Liz Allan  [00:56:04]:
That'd be like bum fight the Okay Corral, wouldn't it?

Jonny Berry [00:56:08]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:56:09]:
Well, listen. Thank you. Thank you to everything that you've been doing with Evie Cafe. Thank you for everything that you're doing with Novuna. Just keep keep doing it. That's all I'd say. We've talked about how people can get hold of you. I will share all of your contact details, not home telephone number or anything like that.

Liz Allan  [00:56:27]:
But I'll I'll share all I'll share all of the details in the show notes when this goes live. But thank you, Johnny. It's been really lovely, and I hope I get to get a proper hug when I see you at the next the next event.

Jonny Berry [00:56:43]:
And I definitely, let's put that in the diary for you to come and visit, and let's do a live session because

Liz Allan  [00:56:49]:
I'd love that.

Jonny Berry [00:56:50]:
That there. Let's get that in the diary, and thank you again for having me on your podcast, let alone it being the 100th one. It's amazing. But also keep up the great work that you're doing with electrical evolution. I've been an avid listener for the last 6 6 months now. So really good. It's been really helpful for me, to keep up the good work there.

Liz Allan  [00:57:09]:
Oh, you're an absolute star. Thank you ever so much. So everybody, thank you for listening to the 100th episode or watching it, whichever way you're watching it. Please, if you've enjoyed this podcast, no matter when you've listened to it, please, if you can put a little review on or something like that and try and spread the word in the same way, you know, we would do for Evie Cafe and everybody, then that would be fantastic. But, again, I'm gonna say thank you, and I will speak to you all. And, well, you'll hear me. You'll see me at some point very soon. Thank you, Johnny.

Liz Allan  [00:57:42]:
I'll see you all later. Bye. Bye.