Episode 101: Liz Allan and Imogen Bhogal - Overcoming Fears and Doubts About EVs

Episode 101: Liz Allan and Imogen Bhogal - Overcoming Fears and Doubts About EVs.

Liz Allan speaks to Imogen Bhogal, Chief Content Officer for Fully Charged Show and Everything Electric. They discuss the importance of making EV-related information more accessible to the general public, as well as the common concerns and myths about electric vehicles, from charging anxiety to sensationalist misinformation, and emphasise the need for clarity and human-centric design in presenting these concepts. Imogen shares personal and humorous anecdotes, including her failed attempts at setting up a wind turbine for filming. Imogen also discusses her journey from engineering to presenting for Fully Charged, and both highlight the privilege of witnessing the clean energy transition around the world.

Imogen Bhogal Bio:
Imogen Bhogal is the Chief Content Officer at Fully Charged Show and Everything Electric, a leading media platform focused on electric vehicles and clean energy. With a background in engineering, Imogen brings a wealth of technical knowledge and a keen eye for content creation to her role. She is passionate about bridging the information gap surrounding electric vehicles and renewable energy, making complex topics accessible and engaging for the general public. Imogen also advocates for human-centric design in clean technology, emphasising the practical benefits and debunking myths and misinformation. Additionally, Imogen is a regular speaker and panel moderator at events, including the "Everything Electric" expos, where she helps educate and inspire audiences on the transition to a cleaner, more sustainable future.

Imogen Bhogal Links:
Website: https://fullycharged.show
YouTube Fully Charged: https://www.youtube.com/user/fullychargedshow
YouTube Everything Electric: https://www.youtube.com/@EverythingElectricShow
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/imogenbhogal

Episode Keywords:
FUD, electric ve

Transcript

Episode 101: Liz Allan and Imogen Bhogal - Overcoming Fears and Doubts About EVs

Liz Allan [00:00:00]:
Right, so on today's episode, I'm really pleased I have this fantastic woman with me. She's Imogen Bhogal, the chief content officer for Fully Charged. Imogen, thank you ever so much for joining me. And it should actually be Fully Charged and Everything Electric, really, isn't it?

Imogen Bhogal [00:00:14]:
It should be Fully Charged and Everything Electric. But no. Thank you so much for having me. It's a delight to be here this afternoon, honestly.

Liz Allan [00:00:22]:
And it was and we met last week, at, Everything Electric up in Harrogate. I remember you go standing next to me going, I think I know you, don't I? And I went, yes, I'm interviewing you next week.

Imogen Bhogal [00:00:33]:
That's always the funny thing. I feel like, you know, I I don't know what goes on in my brain, but you get so used to meeting people sort of via thumbnail or via kind of like little square on Zoom or what have you. And then when you see someone in real life, you're like, I feel convinced that we know each other. Of course, we do. We've been having extensive conversations. So, yes, I I needed a little time for my brain to catch up.

Liz Allan [00:00:56]:
But Don't worry. Don't worry. But, I mean, everybody knows you because of all the work that you're the fantastic work you're doing, you know, with Everything Electric. It's just amazing. And I was just saying before we started recording that thanks to your interview with Aira, I'm gonna be talking to the the CEO in the next few weeks. So because I'm I'm overwhelmed, their product is fantastic, and it was brilliant to see. So  thank you for that as well. But you've been doing so much so many other things as well, haven't you?

Imogen Bhogal [00:01:26]:
It has been a very, very busy I was gonna say start to the year, but I mean, goodness me, we're halfway through the year. It's been a busy half year. And sort of between our various live shows, I think the one in Harrogate, which we've just come back from, that was our 3rd this year. Yeah. And we're in Sydney, before that and London as well, and then Harrogate. And now we've got sort of all eyes focused towards Australia and Vancouver and all of the filming that we need to do there. So it's been amazing. I mean, the only sort of drawback is that the weeks just fly by.

Liz Allan [00:01:59]:
And you're like, oh my god. How are we in June? It was it was January, just a a second ago.

Liz Allan [00:02:04]:
I know. I actually said to my husband, and I don't know whether I've said this on the podcast before, but I said we were taking our Christmas tree down on 31st December because that's what I do, on 1st January. And I said maybe I should leave it up because it's gonna be Christmas again soon, isn't it? It just goes it just goes so quickly. It's just mad. I don't know whether it's an age thing. I've no idea.

Imogen Bhogal [00:02:26]:
Well, there is that theory that because oh my gosh, how am I even gonna explain this? That time does accelerate the older that you get Mhmm. As well. But I also think when you're you're just busy time also just vanishes as well. So

Liz Allan [00:02:39]:
Exactly. Yeah. So come on, let's let's have a little bit of a bit of your background. So you worked for the Electric Bus and Bank Company of our arrival, didn't you? Before that, you were at JLR, so Jaguar Land Rover as an aerodynamics engineer. I thought that was amazing. So so just can you give us give us some background about you and how you kind of what was your how did you get to where you are now? I always talk to everybody about this because I always find it really, really fascinating.

Imogen Bhogal [00:03:09]:
Yeah. It's a good question. And I think if someone was to look through my my LinkedIn or my CV or whatever, they'd be like, hang on a second. There are some weird things that don't necessarily tally up for how this path makes sense. But I think, when I started off, I I studied engineering at Oxford, and I I loved engineering. I absolutely loved it. And mainly because I am deeply curious about the world around us and how people design things and how these all these different people come together and make something physical. I also totally adored maths as well.

Imogen Bhogal [00:03:42]:
And I was really fortunate enough to do an internship at Jaguar Land Rover, and then had a full time job working in their aerodynamics department. And the aerodynamics department at that time, it was sat in a we were sat in a corner of the design studio. And, honestly, it was this sort of completely eye opening light bulb moment walking into that design studio because as much as I I thought I really liked engineering, I did still have that perception that I was gonna be destined to wear a high vis jacket and a hard hat for the rest of my life.

Liz Allan [00:04:14]:
Right.

Imogen Bhogal [00:04:14]:
And you walk in there, and there are these incredibly glamorous engineer sorry, incredibly glamorous engineers and designers. And you could spot the designers because in those days, they were the ones wearing trainers with, like, you know, really cool, like, leather skirt and, like, shirt. Oh, god. Looked fabulous. And then you have these full scale cars being sculpted out of clay. Mhmm. And then these conversations between engineers and designers sort of scrutinizing things within a millimeter detail, and it was such a privilege to get that window of insight into that into that world. And then I should say though, I was I think my secret ambition had always been to be a Blue Peter presenter.

Imogen Bhogal [00:05:02]:
I loved being in this world of engineering, but I was much more interested in talking about it and seeing how all these different bits and bobs came together than actually getting into the weeds and doing the maths. Unfortunately, I worked with some amazing people who I think kind of identified that in me a bit. So I had a job working in design where I sort of, you know, acting as a bit of a middleman between how do you take early concepts of car designs and ensure that they retain their design integrity as they go into that early engineering feasibility. And then I worked, in the technology and innovation, comms bit of the PR department. So really looking at what's happening in autonomous vehicles, connected vehicles, electric vehicles, shared vehicles, all of that, and taking that sort of technical information and trying to translate it into a much more consumer facing audience. And I think that's when I really, really fell in love with Electric Fix. And it felt very clear to me that that was the future. This is in around 2015 where we just had the, VW Dieselgate scandal.

Imogen Bhogal [00:06:05]:
So, you know, that was really, really adding, I guess, you know, it was serving as a real catalyst for driving that electric transition. And that's when I moved to Arrival, which at that time, felt hugely promising. They were focusing on electric vehicles and trying to do so in a way that was looking at commercial vehicles, ensuring they have cost parity with internal combustion engine equivalents. Very, very clear on that mission and vision. Sadly, it did not go to plan, as is the case with many EV startups. And I suppose that's probably what happens when you have a bit of scope creep and work on too many projects or perhaps grow a little bit too quickly. But it was a fantastic experience, like, really, really phenomenal. Worked with some incredible engineers.

Imogen Bhogal [00:06:52]:
And I think that's what ultimately gave me the platform to join Fully Charged full time as a presenter and producer. So, presenting my own episodes but also producing various other people's episodes as well. And finally, finally, I was able to kind of combine my love of engineering, love of actually just talking about it and sharing it and putting it in a greater context, and present full time, which is a total joy and definitely a dream come true. So not blue Peter, but maybe one better than that,

Liz Allan [00:07:22]:
I reckon. Oh, I think so. I think so. It's it's just I totally get you. The whole yeah. Blue Peter I grew up with Blue Peter. So I, you know, I and I'm I'm older than you. So there's probably presenters that you might not heard of.

Liz Allan [00:07:38]:
Kind of Peter Hang on. Peter Purves. And then there was John Noakes and people like that and just yeah. I'm old.

Imogen Bhogal [00:07:47]:
Then I was, I grew up with Katie Hill and Connie Huk and Matt Baker. They were like my generation of Blue Peter presenters. And, we did make Tracy Island or rather, I think my mum, if we're being honest, she made Tracy Island deep into sort of the early hours of the morning, and we probably took the credit. But

Liz Allan [00:08:08]:
Oh, fantastic. So you are there's a number of things that I wanted to talk to you about. So you've you've talked about kind of was was that was the engine, you know, kind of working with JLR and Arrival and everything. Was that did that kind of set up your love for automotive full stop?

Imogen Bhogal [00:08:30]:
Kind of, but I think it probably started a little bit before then. And I've definitely told this story before, but we we grew up in Southampton. And Southampton is pretty easy to cycle around. And my parents were very, very kind of fierce cyclists. You know, unfortunately, my mum, she did pass away, because she had cancer, but she cycled to every single one of her chemotherapy appointments.

Liz Allan [00:08:58]:
Did she?

Imogen Bhogal [00:08:58]:
I think kind of a protest. She's like Yeah.

Imogen Bhogal [00:09:02]:
That's right.

Imogen Bhogal [00:09:03]:
Yeah. And then they were also doctors. So, you know, you've got 2 things to contend with there. I actually had appendicitis. And they made me cycle to the hospital because parking was a bit of a nightmare. They did subsequently regret that. However, two things that have happened. The first was that in recovering from my appendicitis, I actually did get a lift home in a Range Rover from a family friend of ours who had a Range Rover.

Imogen Bhogal [00:09:31]:
And the reason being was that this car would cope with the potholes, you know, on the roads on the way home. And I was obviously feeling quite sensitive because I had appendicitis.

Liz Allan [00:09:41]:
Of course.

Imogen Bhogal [00:09:41]:
I remember being in this car and just thinking, oh my goodness. This is phenomenal. I have never been in anything like this in my whole life. And we would also go past this, Range Rover garage, this Jaguar Land Rover garage. And I was so fascinated that these cars existed, and there's this whole sort of ecosystem that existed around them. And then I think when I was working at Jaguar Land Rover, it sort of really cemented that feeling of, oh my god. How is it that thousands of people come together doing thousands upon thousands of different things and somehow a car comes out the rest at the end of it? And then the third bit of that is that you've got even if you're not a car person and you don't care about cars, you don't even care about the colour of the car, you still depend on transport in one form or another to get from a to b or to access jobs or your friends or health care or what have you. And so even if you don't think you care about transport, you do care about transport.

Imogen Bhogal [00:10:47]:
And I think how phenomenal to be involved in this industry that has such a profound impact on everyone's lives and actually is quite critical in how they access things that constitute just a good quality of life. So, yeah, I'm obsessed. Love the car industry.

Liz Allan [00:11:04]:
Yeah. And I suppose I suppose there are, you know, parents who are relying on transport, you know, on their cars to take their kids to school and take them to after school club or go various places, you know, like I said, she's so so my as we're talking, my nephew's on his on his way down from Skipton with his 5 year old, you know, and they're going they're coming down. Actually, yeah, I think he's in he's in a Range Rover at the moment and, and they're going to go to LEGOLAND tomorrow. So, you know, that's how it's it's over 200 miles from Skipton. It's probably around the same as it was to Harrogate for you last Yeah. Last week, you know? And, yeah, we do we do have to rely on these things. I mean, we're we're a one car family because my husband works in Reading, the university, so he kinda gets public transport, but, you know, I rely on the car so much.

Imogen Bhogal [00:11:59]:
Yeah. And and it's so interesting, And I think this is felt even more acutely in cities in the US, which are slightly newer and have been built in a slightly less organic way than cities, say, in the UK, they're a bit older. And that, actually, if if there are certain areas aren't supported adequately by public transport or, you know, people don't have access to cars, actually, that has a real impact on can people access healthy food, for example? Yeah. Or does it reduce the number of jobs that are viable? Or actually, does getting around become such a faff that it prevents you from voting or participating in, you know, democratic process or whatever. And Yeah. We all we all have a need to exist outside of a of a walking radius. So, yeah, so whether it's depends on cars or really, really good transportation net public transportation network, it's it's so vital, and so multifaceted. So

Liz Allan [00:12:56]:
I agree. Honestly, coming coming down from I I'm originally from Halifax in West Yorkshire. And when I lived up there, I my well, my very first job was at or second job was at the Halifax Billing Society as it was then, which is part of Lloyds Banking Group now. So that one was easy, but I didn't stay there too long. And I was working because I wanted to I was looking for something. At the time, I didn't know what I was looking for, you know, but I ended up traveling over to Leeds and our public transport then. This is kind of like in the sort of nineties, where it our public transport was rubbish, you know. So I had again, I I became very reliant on on a on a car and I was I was in a some people who've listened to this podcast before.

Liz Allan [00:13:43]:
I was in a car crash in the late eighties. I've just gone 18. So so I'm I say I'm a bit bionic and I've got 9 lives, but that's something different. But actually, it's it's I I can't, I can't get round as quickly as everybody else. Do you know what I mean? So so a car was even though I was in a car crash, I wasn't driving. I was a passenger. So I'm very I like to be a driver.

Imogen Bhogal [00:14:08]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:14:08]:
You know? And and I got I got used to getting to different places by car,

Liz Allan [00:14:14]:
you

Liz Allan [00:14:14]:
know, and it was it was something that, you know, I know we need to be driving less these days because of emissions and things like that. I feel like I've moved into a bit of a better place with an EV, but I still need to drive a lot because I do quite a lot of driving in the work that I do.

Imogen Bhogal [00:14:31]:
Yeah. And and we had, we did a bit of an experiment to see if we could go down to, to one car. And with working for the Everything Electra and Fully Charged Show, we travel a lot. We are going to all sorts of weird and wonderful places and very nobly tried to have to be, you know, just rely on one car. It caused too many logistical challenge and fraught conversation, unfortunately. But at least, yeah, going electric at film's a little bit, lighter. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:15:03]:
Exactly. So when you so how long is it since you've been working for Fully Charged?

Imogen Bhogal [00:15:10]:
3 years. 3 years now.

Liz Allan [00:15:13]:
Yeah. What has I mean, obviously, you've done lots and lots of different things. What has it given you the opportunity to do other than feel like you're at Blue Peter Presents a bit a lot better? What what are the big things that it's given you the opportunity to do?

Imogen Bhogal [00:15:28]:
Oh, what a great question. Okay. There's probably many, many aspects to this question. And I guess the easy or sort of, you know, an element of this question is that there is some wonderful travel opportunities. Of course, we've had a couple of moments where we've been in these fabulous locations and thought, oh my goodness me. We are so incredibly fortunate. So for example, we were in Menorca on a solar powered yacht. Oh, wow.

Imogen Bhogal [00:15:57]:
It's wonderful. Not Menorca. Sorry. New York because we whilst this yacht was extremely glamorous, we were staying in Magaluf and accompanied, by the soundtrack of various 18 year olds getting in at 4 AM after their a levels, which was

Imogen Bhogal [00:16:12]:
That's a kind of boom boom boom boom.

Imogen Bhogal [00:16:14]:
Yeah. We're like, well, I just thought about balance. Luxury yacht, 18 year olds, Magalove. Okay. Fine. Balance. We've also been super, super lucky to film some absolutely sensational things in in Vancouver and Australia. And what a privilege, obviously.

Imogen Bhogal [00:16:31]:
But I think the thing that I find more compelling and and much more rewarding than that is that we get this snapshot of where different bits of the globe are. Oh my gosh. You tell me it's Friday, and my words are oh, anyway. But where different bits of the globe are with respect to the clean energy transition, both in terms of from a technology standpoint, from a policy standpoint, from a general attitude standpoint. Mhmm. So we have these discussions in these different locations through our our live show, and they they all feel so different because every community, country, etcetera, is in a slightly different place. So Mhmm. That's, again, a real privilege to get that that snapshot of what's happening sort of more globally.

Imogen Bhogal [00:17:14]:
I'd say the other aspect is that my geography of the UK has dramatically improved. And whilst, of course, we've been to these really fabulous and very glamorous locations, we've also been to places, like Lancaster, Saint and Stithians in Cornwall. We've been to Hull many times. And it's amazing to see what's happening on our very own doorstep. So that's been a privilege. But I think the thing that is the best bit about it is our fabulous, fabulous, fabulous team. And, you know, I I came at this from a root of engineering and being able to talk about things from a a technical standpoint, but we have people who are deeply, deeply creative and come at this from a totally different direction. And it has become so evident that we need those different perspectives and skills in order to create the stuff that we create and for it to be valuable and helpful to people.

Imogen Bhogal [00:18:10]:
And, you know, if it was just me recording the stuff that I think is interesting, I'm sure only about 3 people would listen. So being part of that team is amazing, and I absolutely love them to pieces.

Liz Allan [00:18:24]:
Fantastic. You you all do seem to get on really well. And I've got to say so, Everything Electric. I didn't get to check catch all of the panel sessions, but the panel sessions are so interesting. You know, if if there if there are people listening and watching this and you've not been to Everything Electric or, you know, and you're or you're you're thinking about it, please do because the actually, the the panels if if you only went for the panel sessions, they are just so informative.

Imogen Bhogal [00:18:54]:
Yeah. And, you know, we've we've found, because I'm always surprised when people come for the full 3 days of the event. And I've asked people, you know, how do you divide your time? And they're like, well, day 1, back to back test drive. Day 2, look around the exhibitions, really get a sense of, you know, speak to the home energy advice zone, etcetera, etcetera. Day 3, back to back panels. So, you know, people have sussed out how to how to do it and how to get the best out of it. But, yeah, the panels are great. And not least because I've been doing this for 3 years.

Imogen Bhogal [00:19:29]:
My colleagues have been doing this for longer than that. And even in those 3 years, the nature of that conversation has changed so dramatically. And, you know, I compare, for example, Harrogate this year versus Harrogate last year. Last year, we're still talking about the sorts of technologies we need. This year, we're talking about, well, what are the policies that enable them? What are the different finance mechanisms that enable them? And you kind of get this shift of, you know, follow the transition really, really closely. So that's really cool. I feel very lucky.

Liz Allan [00:20:02]:
I like that. And going back to what you just said at test about test drives, and I told you this before we started recording. So today is the day that follow following on from having a test drive at Everything Electric in Harrogate, Michele my colleague, Michele, and friend is actually went for a test drive in an MG 4 X Power last week. And one week later to the day, she's actually buying an, an MG an MG 4 X Power. Her husband went for a test drive in it up in, Morpeth where near where they are. And, yeah, they loved it so much. And that is because of everything electric because the test it is so, yeah, I gave you short change on the fact that about the panels because it's not just that.

Liz Allan [00:20:48]:
It's about everything that that people can go and see there. And the number of vehicles that were there were just it was it's just fabulous. You give everybody that opportunity, you know. I was talking to Lorna McAtear from National Grid who's head of fleet for those that don't know her. Absolute superwoman. My god. Super superwoman. And we were talking she was talking about people were coming when the on the very first day and you opened the gates, there was a there was a load of people just pegging it down.

Liz Allan [00:21:20]:
And, you know, and somebody said, I think it maybe Lorna has said something to or somebody said to this guy who's, like, ahead of the pack. He's going, yes. I'm I'm I'm gonna be straight in for the test drives. No. He was there. He was gonna do it. That was his choice. And just running down there, it was just yeah.

Liz Allan [00:21:36]:
It was amazing.

Imogen Bhogal [00:21:37]:
And it really is. And you you speak to people who come to the show and they they've gone from, like, a Ford, a BYD, an MG, and back to back and back to back. And, you know, it's very rare that you get to try multiple different types of vehicles and to compare them side by side. And to do it with not having to invest that much time or effort to do so. Because, you know, going to a dealership is fundamentally, it's a few hours out of your Saturday. It's not necessarily a pleasant experience. But, yeah.

Liz Allan [00:22:07]:
Yeah. I am pulling a face for those for those who aren't watching. I was pulling a face then. I did when I was test-driving. And those who have gone all the way through with me on this podcast, this is kind of where we've gone and we went through test drives and things like that. And and I did have issues with various dealerships, partly because of the way that they treat women and other reasons as well. We can talk about the women and stuff later, but, but, yes, it the fact that you give everybody that ability to just test drive so many vehicles, and you should have seen my face. I sat in an ID buzz and I was so I just, I didn't, obviously, they weren't, they weren't going out for test drive, but I just loved them.

Liz Allan [00:22:49]:
I was like,have you seen this? Just look at this. Isn't it just lovely? I love it so much.

Imogen Bhogal [00:22:55]:
We had, so we had our Amsterdam show at the end of last year, and one of my school friends, she lives in Amsterdam. And she came with her husband, and they had a babysitter for their daughter who's 18 months. And I was like, oh, how did you enjoy the show? And they were like, it was wonderful. We sat in a car with massage seats in silence, and it was such a wonderful break. I was like, something for everyone. That's fantastic.

Liz Allan [00:23:20]:
Absolutely. And actually just and just think about taking the cars out for test drive. Michele's face who was was with with me, like I said, it was just a picture, Imogen. It was an absolute picture just seeing the you know, it's silent, but it's just got that it's the amazing feeling of, you know, kind of the acceleration and her I was actually filming and her face was just like such a such delight. Do you know what I mean? And this is somebody and she's somebody who doesn't particularly like driving. I went, you're gonna learn to like driving again or just for top of all the stuff because actually they're so nice to drive. Aren't they?

Imogen Bhogal [00:24:02]:
And I think the way I personally feel about electric vehicles is that when you had sort of toy cars as a child and you imagined what driving must have felt like, and then when you start driving in it, obviously, doesn't because you you think about gears and whatever. And then when you get an electric vehicle, you're like, ah, this is how I thought driving would be when I imagined what driving would feel like. And I think that's incredibly cool.

Liz Allan [00:24:27]:
It is. It's just it's just as the EV Cafe would say, it's just funner, you know. It's just it's just brilliant and, yeah. I've got I've currently got, a courtesy car. I'm not gonna go into detail on here, but, I've got I've got a Polestar 2 and, actually, the range on the Polestar 2 is amazing. And the sight is just it's just a lovely a lovely vehicle, you know, and just, yeah, got up to Birmingham and Wolverhampton and back yesterday, And I still had 90 miles left, which I wouldn't have normally with my Ioniq. But I was like, oh, this is so good.

Imogen Bhogal [00:25:35]:

Also, I think, technically, I'm not allowed to say how I personally felt about the Polkestar 3 and 4 because that's under embargo. But I can tell you, that we test drove the, filmed an episode on the Pulsar 3 and 4, both of which will be available in the UK later this year. And then this bit's no secret because it you know, you can Google this fact. But the range is insane. It's completely mad. I'd yeah. I've got to drive to Cornwall this evening. I have absolutely no problem going there and back with the 3 or 4. It's incredible.

Liz Allan [00:25:45]:
They just there's just so many for anybody who, you know, we've we've it would be good maybe to talk now because there's there's other other things we can we have lots of stuff I've got to talk to you about. But but about kind of the negative media stories.

Liz Allan [00:25:59]:
And I said to you, I talked I talked to Robert Llewellyn about this as well. But it's kind of what you're just saying there, you know, and I can if you can get 300 miles or more in a car, in an EV, why wouldn't you want to change to it? Do you know what I mean? It's but there's so much negativity out there, isn't there? We just need to counter it. What are your what are your thoughts on how how are we doing with this? What what do you think?

Imogen Bhogal [00:26:31]:
Oh, gosh. Where to start? It's so interesting because I do think there's a degree of empathy that we all need to have in this discussion because we have we've got the zed mandate. We have committed to going electric. And there are many people for whom they feel like that's something that's been imposed on them. And fundamentally, it's a bit of human being. Yes. We don't particularly like being told what to do. And especially when we've had this whole narrative of of, you know, describing driving and the open road and associating that with freedom, for something to be dictated to us as human beings can get some backs up.

Imogen Bhogal [00:27:07]:
I think, clearly, there's a more fundamental issue of who's driving some of this negative information, narrative, misinformation, disinformation, all the rest of it. And, of course, that needs to be addressed, and we are starting to see some of those shifts, not least through the amazing work that Quentin Wilson doing is doing, that organisations like Stop Burning Stuff is doing, and various other people who've been very, very vocal in the space as well. But at the same time, I think kind of coming back, what's frustrating about the sort of fierceness of that misinformation is that it forces the other side of the fence, people like you and I, who advocate for EVs, to become a bit more strident in how we advocate for them. And that makes the argument, I think, way more divisive when actually there is just sort of, I think, the need to kind of step back and be like, okay, well, what are your concerns around electric vehicles? Let's kind of unpack some of those, and see if we can understand them in a bit more detail. I also think that many people who have concerns about electric vehicles haven't ever driven 1 or haven't had the experience of 1. And so seeing, testing, believing is is so crucial to kind of, you know, addressing that uncertainty and fear that can can be attached to any kind of technology. I live in Oxford, and one of the things that I saw that the council done and I thought was amazing was they had a day where you can go and just see how you plug in a vehicle. And I think that sounds really simple to current EV drivers.

Imogen Bhogal [00:28:42]:
But nobody likes to feel like a lemon or a bit of a doofus when you're doing something new for the first time. So it's like Yeah. Fantastic. Like, how good do you know, the they're making you feel part of this journey and not stupid for having some of those concerns. So I guess that's a really long winded way of saying, I just believe we need to be kind, to be empathetic towards concerns, and address those concerns in the most pragmatic and positive way we possibly can. And I was recently speaking at the Feet Future of the Car event, and, of course, the question came up on the, like, how do we navigate the ICE to EV transition of, like, yeah. But what about the charging network? I was like, do you drive an EV? They're like No. No.

Imogen Bhogal [00:29:29]:
It's like, well, when you hear statistics, like, you know, currently with 60,000 public charging points or whatever in the UK, that's a big number. We do know that they're not evenly distributed. We do know that historically there have been some reliability challenges, etcetera. But everyone has very, very unique and specific ways that they move around. So you find out what what works for your sort of 80% of your journeys. And the other 20%, you plan ahead. And 99.9% of the time, you're absolutely fine. And it's only going to get better and better and better.

Imogen Bhogal [00:30:04]:
So it's challenging. And certainly, I think I've been on a bit of a journey where it's felt very negative and aggressive. And it you're like, oh, god. It's really taken the wind out my set sails a little bit. But I think if we can all remember to be kind, that hopefully helps.

Liz Allan [00:30:22]:
What do you think about the language that we use to describe various aspects of EV and charging and things like that? Be because, you know, they are the way that we talk about, you know, if it sorry. Even just things like FUD, the fear, uncertainty and doubt. People don't know what that means.

Imogen Bhogal [00:30:44]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:30:45]:
They don't know FUD. I didn't know FUD until probably over about 18 months ago, you know. I was what's this FUD thing? You know? But we have to think about the general population who don't know these words.

Imogen Bhogal [00:30:59]:
Well, that's exactly it. And I had a conversation with someone recently. And, and I think because of and I'm sure that you get this as well. Because people know that we talk about electric vehicles and clean energy, sometimes they come in with a bit of a combative, like, you know, attitude as if, like, prove me wrong kind of thing. Alright. Here we go. Fine. Right.

Imogen Bhogal [00:31:21]:
What have we got? He's like, convince me to go electric then. And I was like, okay. Well, what are your concerns? What are your concerns about going electric currently? And he spoke about charging. He spoke a little bit about that. And then he spoke about, well, of course, and electricity cables, they've been associated with cancer. I was like, oh, okay. I've not heard that one before.

Liz Allan [00:31:46]:
That's a new one.

Imogen Bhogal [00:31:48]:
Yeah. That is a new one. I was like, I'd really recommend you take a look at where, you know, a bit more of the information around that, how it's been referenced, how it's been sourced, how it's come you've come across it, etcetera, etcetera. But, yeah, I think some of the language prevents this from being really accessible such that when someone is confronted with quite a sensationalist sort of headline like that, that they don't know how to distinguish fact from fiction. And not all of us engaged with GCSE and a level physics where AC and DC and high voltage and whatever were, like, common terms. So I think we also need to take a step back and introduce the much more human-led design into some of these things, you know? And what's the information that you can see on a charger? And actually, can the average person on the street, does it mean anything to that person? Yeah. So, yeah, I think it's zooming out and what's what language what's the language we actually need to use to convey what we actually mean would be helpful.

Liz Allan [00:32:55]:
Exactly. So it's kinda like, you know, when you look at charging, you know, okay. So to me, it's kind of 50 kilowatts, a 100, 150, 350. Right. Okay. So that's slower than that one, but it's you know, and it's it's working. It's kind of to me that that's all about speed. So it's kind of well that's yeah.

Liz Allan
It's a 50 so it's still fast but, yeah, it it's just getting people to recognise, right, okay, your car might not be able to take that 350. But you can use these 2 and it will charge in this length of time.

Imogen Bhogal [00:33:31]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:33:32]:
It doesn't need to be called rapid, ultra rapid. Good god it's never been this fast rapid, you know, that kind of thing does it? We don't need to get that far really.

Imogen Bhogal [00:33:43]:
You're so right. Because I I I had this thought the other day. I was, like, you know, we're in, like, super fast, ultra rapid, whatever, and it will get faster. So what what adjectives are we going to use?

Liz Allan [00:33:53]:
My god. That's the speediest I've ever had you know.

Imogen Bhogal [00:34:01]:
And that's the thing then until you start driving an EV, you don't really know what any of those things mean. You don't know what they mean in with respect to your specific EV. But you very, very quickly become familiar with, okay, it's 50 kilowatts. Well, actually, I did wanna stop for half an hour. I'm gonna do a call here or whatever. Or ideally, I want to be on the road in 15 minutes. Let's go for 150 kilowatts or or whatever it might be. But those come through using and living with an EV.

Imogen Bhogal [00:34:30]:
And I it's a huge kind of information gap that we have to bridge before someone's made the commitment. But, yeah, it's challenging.

Liz Allan [00:34:38]:
I've got and this is very sad of me. I've got on my notes on my iPhone loads of e me EV myths and responses to them, and I've got, like, the Fair Charge little book of myths in a PDF format. So just in case, because I know what'll happen, I'll end I'll end up somebody last something and I'll go, I can't remember. So I kinda go through my notes, you know, and go,

Liz Allan [00:35:01]:
oh, this is the answer. I've got it here. I think that the little book of Evie Myths is so fabulous and not least because, Quentin and obviously he works very closely with Ben Kilby. They are so eloquent, so concise. And I yeah. I'm like, well, this is this is better than anything I could do. Fantastic.

Imogen Bhogal [00:35:21]:
And and this is what we need, isn't it? You know, actually something that people can read that's the truth.

Liz Allan [00:35:27]:
Mhmm. You know, you're always gonna have the sceptics out there, like the ones that still think that the fire over at Luton Airport was to do with an electric car when it wasn't. And if you actually take the number plate and put it into, you know, put it into Google, it'll tell you that it was a diesel, you know, but there are always people who were conspiracy theorists. It's we can't stop that. But if we can support the ones that kind of think, god, you know, really? Is this is this all true? Because there's gotta be there's gotta be people who think, surely, 150, you know, articles in the Daily Mail are negative you know, negatively sharing information about electric vehicles and the charging network. Surely? Is that right?

Imogen Bhogal [00:36:14]:
And, obviously, you know, I think we would need to take stock of what are the other kinds of clickbait-y things that The Daily Mail put out. And there's a really good podcast that I listened to, called Shameless Media. And the tagline is fabulous. This is mainly the reason I enjoy listening to it. It's like, the pop culture podcast for smart people who love dumb stuff. So it's great. It's like such a kind of, you know, break from talking about clean engine electric vehicles and all the rest of it. But they have this segment called, are you smarter than a clickbait headline? Oh my god.

Imogen Bhogal [00:36:49]:
And so they describe invariably, it's like a Daily Mail headline. And there's just an amount of just absolute nonsense. Like, one of them was like, football fans won't believe this shock detail. And it was the fact that there was this picture of a footballer wearing a £100 hoodie and his government was wearing a £1,000 hoodie or, like, vice versa. It doesn't even matter. So you're like, let's also calibrate some of this other clickbait that exists in the world and allow that to kind of, you know, make a sense check that some of this stuff is absolutely nonsense. But I also think, you know, as much as as we can sell the virtues of going electric, to really convince everyone, we've got to kind of double down on the fact that you will get a better driving experience, irrespective of whether the fact that it's electric, that it's probably got better technology than your Yes. 10 o'clock engine vehicle that you're currently driving.

Imogen Bhogal [00:37:46]:
And it will be more affordable to run and actually to make, you know, if people can't be won over on the environmental aspect, then hopefully they can. And especially as as vehicles prices start to come down on the financial one. But, yeah, keep keep fighting the good fight, I think.

Liz Allan [00:38:05]:
I know. I think you're right. And actually, I I've kind of said to other people sort of, you know, yes people do feel like or some people feel like they're being forced into it, but actually if we take it right back and think of air pollution.

Imogen Bhogal [00:38:20]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:38:20]:
And the fact that, you know, I've I've been past schools. I've actually been sat outside near my son's school and had people idling near with near me and actually one point my son said, mom, please don't go out and say anything. I was just like, yeah, but I want to because they're not supposed to be doing that, and, actually, kids are breathing it all in and people are, you know, breathing it in. And I don't know why you could see when you had chimneys. Like I say, in Yorkshire, you know, we when I was younger, we had lots of chimneys. You could see the dirty smoke spewing out. I know you can't necessarily see the PM 2.5 in the air, but people need to recognize that actually it is it is getting into your bloodstream and your brain and all sorts of stuff like that, isn't it? And it's just how do you get that across to people?

Imogen Bhogal [00:39:10]:
That is the challenging thing with these invisible things because, you know, often it's been compared to the smoking ban. But the smoking ban, things weren't as smelly anymore. There is that kind of very tangible connection. And I think that is where really celebrating the fact that electric vehicles are quieter. And all of, you know, both for the car vehicle occupants and pedestrians is is also a significant part of the puzzle as well. But, yeah, we we all tend to care about stuff that we can or tend to care more about stuff that we can see and have some sort of tangible connection to as well. So it's yeah, it's tricky,

Imogen Bhogal [00:39:53]:
For sure. We will get there. And at some point, because we've got a 1000000 EV drivers on the road at the moment, at some point, there will be there'll be people who know that it won't you know, it it will be so much more common that you will know somebody who's got an electric vehicle Mhmm.

Imogen Bhogal [00:40:09]:
Who will be able to counter that personally?

Liz Allan [00:40:12]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:40:13]:
You know? So the more when we get to kind of 2,000,000, 3,000,000, whatever, how it moves up, hopefully, that'll kind of reduce that negativity.

Imogen Bhogal [00:40:21]:
Yeah. And there have been some really interesting studies actually around not just looking at the number of EVs because obviously, we know that if you see that your neighbour has 1, you might get 1. And as such, it can become quite sort of concentrated in different pockets. But a more useful metric is how many people know someone with an EV

Imogen Bhogal [00:40:39]:
And for that number to really, really increase. And then you kind of yeah. You get that people advocating based on their own experiences. Because I think I think it's true that with any new technology, anecdote really, really matters above and beyond the, you know, well, here's let's quote a total cost of ownership stat in your face or give you the number of charge there on the UK. People are much more likely to respond to, well, my mate, Hannah, has one, and she found the x, y, zed, and she does similar things to I do. And, Yeah. I think that it's very important, that sort of storytelling and lived experience.

Liz Allan [00:41:16]:
Yeah. Exactly. So I was gonna move on to something that I mentioned to you before, before we started recording, which was I I was having a look at your Instagram feed yesterday. And there was something in there that made me smile actually. It was you and Robert. And was there somebody else there? Was it just the 2 of you? But you were putting up a wind turbine.

Imogen Bhogal [00:41:39]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:41:39]:
And I and I know that it didn't go quite to plan. Just give us a little bit, if you don't mind.

Liz Allan [00:41:45]:
Give us a little bit of the background.

Imogen Bhogal [00:41:47]:
So and this is the total joy of working for The Fully Charged Show and Everything Electric Show. On the one hand, we talk about very important topics like protectionist policies for, you know, stimulating a battery supply chain. On the other hand, we will do things like we did a couple of Thursdays ago, which was to take this portable wind turbine to go to the top of a hill and to try and set it up and to film an episode about this experience. And it went it went pretty well. This is amazing company where, you know, at the moment, they're still pretty small. They're kind of scaling up, and many of the components are 3D printed. Absolutely phenomenal. We had also chosen what happened to be the stillest day possible.

Imogen Bhogal [00:42:30]:
So we were already a bit worried that how compelling was this going to be when there wasn't even sort of a little bit of movement. Anyway, we got through, and we set up the whole thing, and we sort of plugged in the software. And the software is such that it can control the pitch of the blade such that even on very, very still days, they're still managing to find the wind and still rotate. And it was at that point that we realized, and we definitely should have read forward in the instructions, that you need an Android device of some description. And there were 5 of us there. There was, our producing director Katie. There was Robert. There was myself.

Imogen Bhogal [00:43:07]:
And there was 2 other videographers as well. Between the 5 of us, not one of us owned a non-Apple device. And we just we could not believe it that from a mechanical perspective, it was perfect. We'd set it up, and we were let down by the software. And Katie, who is is on our team, and she is absolutely phenomenal. She was desperately trying to figure out a solution, and she's she's pretty technically minded anyway. And then we had to call in support. We had to get a neighbour up.

Imogen Bhogal [00:43:35]:
Does he have an Android phone? Could he get it working? And we did eventually have to admit defeat and take it down. However, having spoken to

Imogen Bhogal [00:43:45]:
the company that developed it, they've done this sort of weird add on such that it should now work with an iPhone. So we'll be filming part 2, very shortly.

Imogen Bhogal [00:43:56]:
Take that one out.

Imogen Bhogal [00:43:57]:
It was such a glorious day. And not least because we accepted defeat. We went back to Robert's house. We had some macaroni cheese. It was still a great day.

Liz Allan [00:44:08]:
I love that. Oh, bless. Does he make good macaroni cheese then?

Imogen Bhogal [00:44:12]:
He does. He is a really, really excellent cook actually. And we film a number of episodes at his house because he has a a studio in his in his shed. So it's quite a helpful place for filming various bits and bobs. But we always have to factor probably 2 more hours into our schedule when we're doing a Robert base Robert's house space shoot. Need an hour for a cup of tea to catch up with Judy, his wonderful wife. And then we need an hour for a really nice lunch, but she invariably will have cooked something really delightful. So Bless him.

Liz Allan [00:44:44]:
That would be fun.

Liz Allan [00:44:44]:
You know what? I've got to say, besides your video, I'm actually addicted to watching the one of his house. And I said this to him, you know, where, I think it was it was Dan and I can't remember who else it was, but went round his house when, you know, looking at the solar panels and stuff like that. So, yeah, it's just I can I can imagine you just wanna stay there as as long as possible, wouldn't you?

Imogen Bhogal [00:45:09]:
Well, so we were talking about that episode the other day because, and I wonder what the thumb the thumbnail is for the episode currently. But certainly, the original thumbnail was a bit of a take on, the Architectural Digest house tours. I don't know if you've ever seen any of these.

Liz Allan [00:45:25]:
No. Oh, so No.

Imogen Bhogal [00:45:27]:
They're so amazing. Basically, it's Architectural Digest. They go and do a tour around various celebrities' homes, and the celebrity will open the door; invariably, they're in California or somewhere. They're like, hey, Adi. Welcome to my home. And then they're like, do this tour of the home, like, this is my green cushion. I love my green cushion. Anyway, so we'd, like, had that as our inspiration.

Imogen Bhogal [00:45:49]:
But, obviously, instead of talking about, soft furnishings, we were talking about solar panels and batteries and all the rest of it. But for anyone who does know what Architectural Digest is, you'll see a little nod and reference to it in the thumbnail for that.

Liz Allan [00:46:02]:
I'm gonna have to look into I'm gonna have to check that out now. I'm gonna have to check. Do you know what? There's so much more that I could talk to you about. And I know I know we've you've got a dash as well. My final question you're gonna love me asking this question. So I said to you that I'd read about you dreaming about being a stunt woman.

Imogen Bhogal [00:46:24]:
Yes.

Liz Allan [00:46:26]:
Tell me what if you had an opportunity to be a stunt woman, what program would you want to be on? What kind of what jet, you know, kind of, what would it be? Would it would it be from an era now or would it be from somewhere previous? Is it kind of like a Marvel stunt woman? What do you what would you fancy?

Imogen Bhogal [00:46:47]:
Oh, my goodness. Where did it get? So many aspects to this. So for context, when I was growing up, I did a lot of gymnastics. So I've got a little bit of ability to backflip. I I feel like with each year, I get slightly less confident in doing so, but there we go. So there's always been that kind of, like, I like that sort of thing. I'd like jumping off things that I probably shouldn't jump off and all the rest of it. And we've also worked with Andy Tarbert in the past, and he was actually Daniel Craig stunt double for his diving scenes in in several of the Bond films.

Imogen Bhogal [00:47:26]:
So I've had many catch ups with him around, well, what would I need to do? And he was like, well, you need to typically have 3 quite key skills. So he was like, well, you've got kind of running going for you. You've got, gymnastics kind of stuff. He's like, but, ideally, you'd need to be able to ride a horse. That's out of the question at the moment. So I need to desperately fill in that gap. But I suppose the other aspect is I so Rey from Star Wars, I thought it would be that should be quite a good one to be a stunt double 4. She's 5 foot 4.

Imogen Bhogal [00:48:02]:
I'm 5 foot 4. We don't look overly dissimilar. Mhmm. Or any of, like, although less of the murdering, I wouldn't want to do that, but killing Eve, her stunt scenes would be quite fun.

Liz Allan [00:48:16]:
Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I'd imagine that'd be fantastic. They actually did some filming in Reading the at the prison, and it was supposed to be a Russian prison, but there's this, yeah, there's a disused prison in in Reading at the moment. Not at the moment. It's been there a long time, you know, to meet. So

Imogen Bhogal [00:48:32]:
Well, if Jodie Comer wants a stunt double, I will ring her up and say, "I'm your girl."

Liz Allan [00:48:39]:
Have you actually you need to say, do you know who I am?

Imogen Bhogal [00:48:43]:
Like, if you want to be my sun devil for talking about a wind turbine, then we can discuss it.

Liz Allan [00:48:49]:
There you go. There you go. That's gotta be the next thing. So what would you want it so so kind of a Killing Eve type thing?

Imogen Bhogal [00:48:56]:
Yeah. I reckon. I think I'm also just very fiercely competitive about sort of various activities. And so I think being a stunt woman just sounds really fun. I don't think I'd be very good at it, and not at least because I so I did my CBT license to ride a moped. And it was extraordinary because I've subsequently been on electric mopeds, and they are a total joy to ride. Mhmm. I remember, like, going around the Cotswolds on this bike and thinking, god, this is, like, the closest you could get to flying.

Imogen Bhogal [00:49:29]:
This is you, just the wind. This is incredible. I feel like there's so little between myself and the road, and this is a transformative experience. And then I looked at my speedometer, and I was going 24 miles, and I necessarily took a box on a yeah. Most likely. Responded.

Liz Allan [00:49:53]:
Don't worry. I took a 20-ton truck out for a test drive at Linda Grave from EV Driver. She had done an EVEX in Ipswich. I took this 20-tonner out. I was really scared. I didn't get it above 17 miles an hour. I'm really sorry. I've got I'm lower than you.

Imogen Bhogal [00:50:14]:
Oh, but I know. So I do similarly, we we drove some lorries the other day, some electric lorries. There are some Mercedes E-Atros 3, 100, and 400. I yeah. Similar. Could not go more than 17, 20 miles an hour.

Liz Allan [00:50:31]:
They're too big. I just I'm just too scared. Yeah.

Imogen Bhogal [00:50:35]:
And I just felt I felt so enormous. I yeah. Don't I would be even worse if they were non electric. I'm sure I would have wouldn't have got above 5 miles an hour.

Liz Allan [00:50:48]:
I imagine. Do you know I would love to talk to you for longer, and it would be lovely to have you back on here again because you're doing so many fantastic things. And, you know, obviously, there's the live shows kinda going on across the world, like you said. You're back in Farnborough in October?

Imogen Bhogal [00:51:05]:
Yes. 11th to 12 30th, I think.

Liz Allan 00:51:08]:
Yeah. So get everybody onto Google, look for Everything Electric in Farnborough, and get some tickets down there. Like I said, if you've not been, it's really, really so it's so I I don't know what it is. I think maybe because it was the first, show live show that I went to in Farnborough. I've got it's quite close to my heart in a way because I quite like it. And it's not too far for me to get to either.

Imogen Bhogal [00:51:33]:
Oh, no. They are just and it's lovely continuing to sort of foster the EV and clean energy community and seeing familiar faces there and welcoming new faces to that as well.

Liz Allan [00:51:44]:
So yeah. Listen, thank you ever so much for your time. It's been fantastic talking to you. You're such a lovely person to talk to. And like I said to you, you could wear a bin bag, you know, and you'd look gorgeous. Every time she's on stage, she looks amazing, everybody, honestly. So, yeah, your pink outfit was fabulous.

Imogen Bhogal [00:52:06]:
That is being very kind. I have definitely worn some things that in retrospect, when I've seen them in an edit, been like, I'm going to mentally take that off the list of future shoot outfits, but glad that we tried.

Liz Allan [00:52:20]:
Oh, bless you. Oh, well, listen. Thank you. Thank you ever so much for your time. It's been brilliant.

Imogen Bhogal [00:52:25]:
Oh, no. Thank you. This has been a total delight. So thank you.

Liz Allan [00:52:28]:
I'm glad. I'm glad you've enjoyed it. And to everybody else watching and listening, I'm gonna say goodbye for now, and I'll see you next time. Bye bye.