Episode 102: Liz Allan and Tom Hurst - Fastned's Quest for Seamless EV Charging and Sustainable Mobility Solutions

Episode 102: Liz Allan and Tom Hurst - Fastned's Quest for Seamless EV Charging and Sustainable Mobility Solutions.

Liz Allan speaks to Tom Hurst, Fastned's UK Country Manager. Tom shares his insights on the challenges and innovations in the EV charging landscape. They discuss site selection for EV charging hubs, the importance of local support, and stakeholder collaboration. Tom also sheds light on Fastned's ambitious plans, including a new 12-charger hub near Newcastle Airport and the company's unique "clean start" campaign to rejuvenate contaminated petrol stations in exchange for EV charging partnerships. Liz and Tom discuss the public's perception of EV infrastructure, Fastned's customer-centric approach, and the company's mission to accelerate the transition to sustainable mobility. 

Tom Hurst Bio:
Tom brings a blend of technical expertise and a passion for renewable energy solutions to his role. Before joining Fastned, he worked in energy and climate change consultancy at ARUP, providing strategic advisory services to governments and organisations. As the UK Country Manager, Tom oversees the development and implementation of Fastned's EV charging networks. He spearheaded the launch of the first ultra-rapid charging hub in the UK in 2019 and one of the first in Europe in 2017. He has pioneered the "clean start" campaign, which commits up to £250,000 for remediating contaminated land at independent petrol stations in exchange for partnerships in EV charging. 

Tom Hurst Links:
Website: https://www.fastnedcharging.com/en
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGtvYZ-Y6hJTy71jRzoZ69w
Twitter: https://x.com/fastned
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tom-hurst-b3030597

Episode Keywords:
EV charging, electric vehicle infrastructure, standalone drive-through hubs, Fastned clean start campaign, contaminated land remediation, EV charging partnership, customer service EV charging, location-specific E

Transcript

Liz Allan  [00:00:00]:
So on today's episode, I have got a really interesting person. We've just been having quite a long conversation before even recording this. Tom Hurst from Fastned, who is the UK country manager. Tom, thank you ever so much for for actually joining me on this. And I know that it's gonna be really, really interesting from our conversation before we started this.

Tom Hurst [00:00:20]:
Oh, no. Thank you so much for having me on. It's great to be here.

Liz Allan  [00:00:23]:
So I saw you speaking at, Linda Grave event up in Ipswich, EVEX, wasn't it? And and it and it's really, really interesting, you know, the the story of Fastned. But to start off with and I always say this to everybody, can you can we get to know you a little bit? Let's get a little bit of your background and find out, you know, you've been at Fastned for 6 no. Over 6 years, isn't it now?

Tom Hurst [00:00:48]:
Years now. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:00:49]:
Yeah. So so give us a little bit of of kind of, like, what you did before. There's a there's a job that you did prior to this that I said I was really interested in when you were at Arup. So if you can just kinda go through it.

Tom Hurst [00:01:01]:
Yeah. Well, I mean, I think not to go too far back in time, but, you know, my my my my father worked in the energy energy industry back in the day in the oil and gas industry. We traveled all around the world, for that and I don't know if it was that specifically or or what, but I've always had an interest in, think fundamentally energy, right, the the stuff that moves us, the stuff that powers our world, and took that through to university, studied mechanical engineering, took all the modules relating to environmental, aspects, even even I think as far back as my a levels, you know, I was my my my my physics sort of report was on on wind turbines because

Liz Allan  [00:01:39]:
Oh, wow.

Tom Hurst [00:01:41]:
Just this the concept of unlimited energy, right, was, yeah, always even even then was inspiring. And so that took me through mechanical engineering and then, followed in my father's footsteps and decided to work in oil and gas for a bit. Lasted all of 9 months. There are a few there are literally a few, oil and yeah. There are some oil they are oil wells in the in the desert in Saudi Arabia that I had a role in drilling. Physically, I was sat there outside the the the sort of drill, yeah, involved in in doing that.

Tom Hurst [00:02:09]:
So it gives me it gives me something of a perspective, right, on the the the amount of effort that goes into producing, you know, the the stuff that still powers the majority of our our world, certainly, when we talk about transport. And but equally that, you know, the the injustices are involved around that, the differences in, the way people were treated in the supply chain there as well, you know. And then so very quickly I, I I realised I need to sort of, actually follow-up my heart a bit more, I guess. And so I I got lucky enough to be accepted onto a sustainable sustainable energy degree at Imperial College. Excellent. Basically, I had to I had to sort of clean up my CV a bit, let's say. So it meant I got, you know, I I I got to study sort of every element of the, the yeah. Let's call it the the zero carbon, energy value chain, and which is, again, is the stuff that just really motivate motivated me that that resonates with me.

Tom Hurst [00:02:59]:
You know, I I I feel like I somehow kilowatt hours and and gigajoules, you know, they they they are instinctive, you know, yeah, units for me. And and so then, yeah, after that, I went to, after that degree, I moved into energy and climate change consultancy with a company called ARUP. So they're they're a big engineering, consultancy firm or an engineering firm basically, operating all around the world and I was involved in, yeah, advisory services for for, you know, local governments, cities, national governments, on everything from, you know, low carbon heat through to general, you know, o o overarching, emissions strategy and emissions reduction strategy. So, yeah, worked for worked for London, worked for the Scottish government, you know, worked for Siemens, some really, really interesting, yeah, actors in that space. But, so I think I did, oh, I should know this, from 2011 to 2017, I was there. It was great, but, like, I I think I just got I got frustrated with the fact that I was writing lots of lovely beautiful reports, doing lots of lovely analysis with our team, and and, you know, doing useful work that was useful, but, equally, you know, people say, oh, it's a lovely report, Tom. Thank you so much. Here it goes on the shelf.

Liz Allan  [00:04:11]:
Oh, yeah.

Tom Hurst [00:04:12]:
You just know it's, you know, if if you're lucky that, you know, one of your statistics was quoted by someone important. You know? I think, early on, we we had we had one number that was quoted by Bill Clinton and and Michael Bloomberg, and that was that was everything for us. But

Liz Allan  [00:04:25]:
I I

Tom Hurst [00:04:25]:
bet. At the same time, that side of it, the the sort of, you know, the support and the advocacy there, the it it just wasn't I didn't feel like I was really doing enough. And then so I just happened to see on LinkedIn that, this this company called Fastned was, hiring for for starting things up in the UK, and I sent my CV in a a simple covering letter in the next here I am, six and a half years later. Yeah. Yeah. Working at working at this company. So it's, yeah, it's been an adventure.

Liz Allan  [00:04:54]:
I love it. I love it. So can you give me a little bit, and everybody a little bit of background? Because I did a bit of digging, a little bit of research into into Fastned and I was really I love being a bit of a geek like this and finding these things out. But can you give us a little bit of background about Fastned? When so it started in it was founded in twin 2012, was it?

Tom Hurst [00:05:15]:
Yep. Absolutely right. So, I mean, I I'll I'll try and tell the potted history, but, you know, our co founders are Michiel Langezau and Bart Liberst. Bart is, I mean, a a serial entrepreneur, but also the son of a former prime minister of the Netherlands. So had a particular attitude and a particular way of thinking about the world and was always interested. I mean, is is I think his father his father, the prime minister, had the country's first electric vehicle back in the, I wanna say, the nineties or the or the early thousands, for example, which is a retrofitted Volvo. Oh, my god. Which I think had a range of 20 miles or something.

Tom Hurst [00:05:45]:
Yes. Oh, okay. Cool. We used to have to stop at, you know, random farmers' houses and sort of park in and sit there, have a coffee with them for 3 hours or 4 hours or 5 hours, you know, trickle charging. Yeah. So, yeah, that that was, yeah, a certain aspect of it. And then our other co co founder, Michiel, who's currently our CEO, had been working at a company called Epione, manufacturing some of the world's first proper rapid charges, so 50 kilowatt charges. Epione, was invested in by Baart and his his his family fund so that the 2 got to know each other.

Tom Hurst [00:06:15]:
Epione was then sold on to ABB, the the, you know, the the global conglomerate with, with a, you know, a leading position in in charging amongst, you know, I think there's a there's a device made and sold by ABB in every single room in the in the world. I think it's there's a statistic like that. But, but what what it meant was our founders could then take that money that they'd sort of, you know, earned in the buyout process, and, they had to ask themselves what we do. And at Epione, they, you know, they really took a this was when there were, I think, that there there were 2 cars on the road basically that were electric. You had the Nissan LEAF with a best case range of 60 miles, and you had the Tesla, the model s. And, you know, the question was, how do we make this mainstream? What is our role in this? What steps can we take to, to to to drive the uptake in in clean mobility? And so, I think, yeah, that that again, not to not to use put words in their mouths, but it was a case of we wanna provide freedom for these drivers and how do you do that today? You put you put super fast charging in the right locations, that enable you to do that. So, I mean, in in summary, they secured, by petitioning the government, the rights to to to build proper well, to build charging infrastructure on all the Dutch motorways, and and on most of the Dutch service areas. And having had you know, having secured those rights, they really took the time then to think about, yeah, what what does the EV driver need? You know, how do we communicate that this is a viable option and a viable alternative to you, to to switch from your your cozy petrol and diesel life, you know, to to to the sustainable option? And how do we we deal with the chicken and egg problem, basically.

Tom Hurst [00:07:51]:
And a a core part of that, you know, since day 1 has been building, you know, just not just popping down a charger here or there behind the bins, that kind of thing, but really really just thinking, you know, the the the petrol station experience but for electric vehicles. So, our stations were all drive through. You drive in. You you park up alongside a charger. It doesn't matter where your, you know, where your charge port might be, for example. You can just plug it in comfortably and and easily. You're underneath the solar canopy. And since our very since the very first day, our stations have had these lovely, solar canopies in there with full, you know, sustainable timber, and and that's just a that's been our basic principle since then.

Tom Hurst [00:08:31]:
Mhmm. So even myself, like, I, you know, the the amazing thing with these canopies, which I clearly, I I like I've seen before, I should've had a picture hanging showing a canopy. I just got half of our logo, But, they they they do so many things. Right? They they communicate to existing EV drivers that we take them seriously. They keep you dry. They protect you from the sun. And, yeah, there there is solar generation from them, obviously, which is important. But, actually, that one of the main roles is also just providing visibility to non EV drivers that this this is a viable alternative.

Tom Hurst [00:09:01]:
Right? And that that's how I found out about Fastned. I'm I'm half Dutch. So I was I was, you know, driving down the Dutch motorways on holiday, seeing these gorgeous yellow futuristic things alongside petrol stations thinking what, you know, what what is this? And is it is it hydrogen or something else magical? Like, what what how how does this work? And so that later, I sort of joined the dots and I saw the the job advert and, again, even that was enough for me to to to sort of make that leap and to be aware of it. So we, as a business, we invest a lot of time and energy in in doing this right, in in getting those designs right, in each location, really considering how how the customer will access it, how they will drive, how they will, you know, see our station in the distance and navigate there visually, which is so important for safety. Right? You don't wanna be sort of on your phone looking through your app trying to work out where the charger is or Yeah. Totally. Like scanning the car park.

Liz Allan  [00:09:51]:
Yeah. Done that. And it Done that plenty of time. With the

Tom Hurst [00:09:54]:
EV driver in the next lane from you going, oh gosh. You know, are we gonna make it am I gonna be first? And then it's it's yeah. It's it's all I mean, it's, yeah. It's it's a challenge as well, worth noting. It's it's, you know, we like like I sort of said to you earlier, like, we really we we do the hard thing because the hard thing is worth doing. So some sites we've you you know, I I mentioned before, we've had in in planning stages in the planning commission stage for up to 2 years. But we hold on and we fight and we work with, we work with the local authorities to, you know, demonstrate the need for this kind of infrastructure here in the UK especially. Mhmm.

Tom Hurst [00:10:29]:
Anyway, I digress.

Liz Allan  [00:10:31]:
No. No. It's it's it's so interesting because and the fact that that is the way that you started as a business looking at it from a usability and a customer experience point of view, you know, and and and actually kind of looking at the sustainability side of it as well, you know, using the sustainable word and and and the solar canopies. I mean, if we took anything from what's left, you know, when I'm not I'm not saying what's left of the the oil and gas industry, you know, with a meaning petrol stations. But if we took from their infrastructure what a petrol station looks like, it's that it's it covers people, doesn't it? You I know you can't you know, most of them have canopies anyway unless they're kind of independent. Yeah. And and I know it's you can't it's diff it's different, isn't it, when we're talking about EV charging because the fact that they're in so many different places. But the idea is that it's it it's there.

Liz Allan  [00:11:32]:
It stands out. You can see it. People think that there are no not not many EV chargers in the UK because they don't see them. Yep. Whereas yours, we can see them.

Tom Hurst [00:11:44]:
Absolutely. I think that I think that's the simple point. Right? If you don't see it, it's not there.

Liz Allan  [00:11:47]:
Yeah.

Tom Hurst [00:11:48]:
So I don't know,

Liz Allan  [00:11:49]:
do they? Anybody driving past a charge, you just think what the heck is that then?

Tom Hurst [00:11:52]:
Yeah. 62,000 charges around the UK. Right? More like, literally 1,000 being added every month. Over 6,000,000,000 being invested by the members of Charge UK, for example, up to 2030. We're all very active. And, yeah, on our side, you know, we're a we're a pure play charging company. Right? We have to do this right. We have to we have to think about the customer's needs.

Tom Hurst [00:12:12]:
We have to make sure that their experience is as good as it possibly can be. You know, if you have one bad experience with a charge point operator at a particular location, at the very least, you're not likely to go to that site again. Maybe you'll give them a try elsewhere, but we can't afford to to, you know, to to, you know, give a poor service to our customers. It's that simple.

Liz Allan  [00:12:30]:
Yeah. I like the fact that you you think you think that way. And what did you say to me earlier about you were the were you the 1st charging company to put RAPIDS?

Tom Hurst [00:12:40]:
We, so when we opened our site in Sunderland in 2019, we were probably by a few weeks. The the first we we opened the 1st ultra rapid charging hub in the UK. We opened I don't know if it was the first, but one of the first in Europe back in even 2017 in the Netherlands with ultrarapids. Before that, everything was rapid. But, yeah, all our sites have multiple charges as well, you know, which is just you know, it's great for availability. It's great for reliability. You know that as a driver, when you come to that site, it's gonna be, you know, the chances of you having to queue are are slim or or a waiting time is gonna be less than, you know, a couple of minutes basically because just of the sheer volume of of charges. And, yeah, we've we've just, you know, we've we've, I guess, since we started here in the UK in 2017, we've taken the time to to work out how the the the Dutch model, let's say, that what worked in the motorways in the Netherlands can be applied to the UK context.

Tom Hurst [00:13:27]:
I would say we're still learning. We're still learning how difficult it can be to get planning permission at some of these sites. Like, you know, questions like, you know, do do you really need a canopy? Well, why you wouldn't you wouldn't ask me that if I was a petrol station, you know, operator, for example. Do you need more than 1 charger? Could you could you stick it around by the you know, at the back of the car park? Does it have to be so visible? These are literally all the things that that, you know, customers are clamoring for and and and and just, yeah, need need need to be there at least for for what we do, which is, you know, it's on the go ultra rapid charging. We're there to communicate freedom to you as a driver. And, you know, again, there's there's a there's a perfectly valid and viable model for charges, again, in the back of a car park for long stays and all these sorts of things, by all means, but we mustn't conflate these 2. And and when when all you hear in the in the press is, oh, there's not enough charging infrastructure. Like, yes, there is.

Tom Hurst [00:14:16]:
I I I drive all around the UK continually on on all the different networks. It's totally doable, but, the proof is yeah. It's it's it's in it's in the, yeah, the the visibility of this stuff.

Liz Allan  [00:14:27]:
Yeah. Just in some ways, it feels like we need to have some kind of standardized model or standardized signage so people kind of know that this is what this is what EV charging looks like. No matter who you are, no matter no matter where you are, you know, and I know that that there's an extra cost to that signage. And I know sometimes in certain situations, some companies can't go with it. But I just think there's gotta be some way of standardizing all of it.

Tom Hurst [00:14:56]:
Totally agree. Like I say, 62,000 charges today, it'll be probably 65,000 next month. Just that a common a common signage. I mean, it it sounds like a really simple policy or, like, a marginal, but I think just pushing the visibility of this out there. So when you're driving along on a road and you see, oh, look. What's what's that? Yeah. There's there's a charging hub there. So even if you can't see it, suddenly the the this stuff becomes visible and it makes its way into the public mindset.

Tom Hurst [00:15:22]:
Mhmm. Certainly, for my side, you know, we'd be very happy to to pay for a a a sticker on a sign or to pay for another layer on a sign. And any operator like us, I I imagine, would be the same sort of thing. So it's not it's something that would be a taxpayer cost or a government cost, you know, you name it. I yeah. I would love to see that. I I don't yeah. We'll we'll see how these things go.

Liz Allan  [00:15:41]:
Because I was saying to you before we started recording that I've been so I have been to 2 2 of your sites. 1 was in Newcastle, where me my my my son were we've been we would got actually, no. We were just coming back from Durham or going to Durham University anyway for his checking checking around unis. And then but then I've also been to your Oxford site. Now that the Oxford Park and Ride is so impressive. And I didn't have an EV then. I said she didn't know before we started recording. I didn't have an EV then, but but when I'm when we're on the EV rally so I'm driver on the women drive electric team on the EV rally, and that's one of the stops we we stop at.

Liz Allan  [00:16:22]:
And just to see it, it's just so impressive. I love it. I love it. It just they're there's nothing quite like that site. I've not seen anything like it.

Tom Hurst [00:16:32]:
Well, there's gonna be a lot more, coming soon. Yeah. We'll be opening well, actually, not with the canopy, annoyingly, but we're opening a site, just off the a one at Newton Aycliffe, later this month. We're opening up in, just in Fife. And then towards the end of the year, yeah, the next big batch of canopy sites, starts to arrive. And then next year, we've got the big drive through sites with the full canopy. And that's that's a whole another level. I mean, an issue you have on the motorways right now is, you know, if you're driving a electric car with a caravan, you can't unhitch that caravan on the service area for insurance reasons.

Tom Hurst [00:17:04]:
You can't use the charging network. It's it's a real yeah. It's a it's a pain point. Our drive through stations are lit are designed so that you can just rock up in your car in whatever orientation works for you, and instantly, you know, it's it's another value add there and and another another element of freedom that we're providing to people. Yeah. So we finally had some, planning permissions come through on those kinds of sites. So it'll be up in, King's Lynn, the site, up on halfway up the a one, let's say, and some other very exciting sites coming in the pipeline, which I can't really share too much about. But, what you find is this this eagle eyed people who look into the the planning applications all across the UK.

Tom Hurst [00:17:41]:
The 2 the 2 I can mention are are are in Northern Ireland. So Banbridge, between, basically, bit on the a one between, Belfast and Dublin, we'll be opening a a 12 charger drive through hub right on the motorway. Excellent. Next to an existing petrol station. So you can sort of compare these things properly. And Antrim as well in Northern Ireland, we're very excited about them. They're the full the full Fastned story, basically. And I'm just very excited to, you know, to have, pardon me, to have UK customers see what it's all about.

Tom Hurst [00:18:09]:
Obviously, you'll see it if you drive to the Netherlands, which is a lovely experience, and you can do that if you stop off at Colchester Northern Gateway where we just opened an 8 charger hub with a canopy. But, yeah, there there's still there's still a lot of learning to be had from from customers and drivers here in the UK about what they deserve, right, what what they should expect, you know. You should expect to be at least as dry as a as a petrol driver, for example. You should expect it to work. You should expect customer service if it's not working for some reason. Fair and transparent pricing, all these sorts of things really matter to the overall, customer experience.

Liz Allan  [00:18:40]:
Exactly. Totally get you. Just going back a second to what you'd said about the ones that that don't have canopies, That is not down to you, is it? It's down to like you were saying about, you know, the questions from the local authorities saying, do you have to have 1?

Tom Hurst [00:18:56]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:18:56]:
So so any of the canopy sites that sorry. Any of the sites that don't have canopies, that'll be down to that whoever that landowner

Tom Hurst [00:19:03]:
It's not always gonna be down to local authority. It might be down to the landowner. It might be down to the businesses that are our neighbors, for example. It really depends. But what what what that's meant is, you know, we we've to an extent anyway, we're not focusing on sites where we're co located on a car park, for example. There's too there's too many stakeholders involved, and, obviously, there's not enough space, for what we really look at. So now the the next sort of way for us here in the UK is stand alone drive through hubs, with, you know, for example, either either a coffee unit alongside us, to provide for customers. So, actually, yeah, we should be starting breaking ground soon on, our site near Newcastle Airport, which will be, again, a big 12 charger hub with with a with a with a coffee unit and, you know, that's that's gonna be very exciting.

Tom Hurst [00:19:46]:
We're working with with the airport themselves. And, again, it's it's a nice one because it starts to it reinforces the, or I wouldn't say rewards, but it thanks the people of the northeast for putting their faith in us back in the day, you know, when we we opened our first site in Sunderland. Then the the people of Sunderland City Council, for example, who who who granted us permission first time for that site. And it the whole thing, you know, I think since signing the contract there to opening it was in 12 months. We've never opened anything as quickly, in the UK, because there was so much goodwill. There was so much collaboration going towards it. And if we could see this at every location that we off operate in, right, if we could really have planning officers who understood the market, understood the need for this infrastructure, and and weren't as as skeptical, I guess, as they are today. I mean, it would be, you know, it'd be a huge impact.

Tom Hurst [00:20:34]:
And it's obviously not it's not just us. Right? But there's there's there's an a very active charging industry that's all trying to, you know, take things to the next level to roll this infrastructure out, because it's it's a self reinforcing, virtuous cycle. Right? You know, more provision of charging, more visibility of charging, people are then more, you know, confident to get into an EV in the first place equals more business, equals more investment anyway. Then then these chickens start laying eggs all the time, and it's, it's great.

Liz Allan  [00:20:59]:
And it's and it's about I wrote, a newsletter on LinkedIn. I've shared it on LinkedIn fairly recently about the tipping point for for electric vehicles themselves. And at some point, we're gonna get to a we're gonna get to a place where there will, there will be people who you know of gen the general public will oh, or know somebody, whether it's a a friend, a colleague, auntie, uncle, you know, kind of mom, dad, you know, whoever it is who has an EV who can speak up for the positive side of it. But it's not perfect. It it you know, nothing's perfect. And the infrastructure isn't perfect yet, but nothing ever is, is it? Do you know what I mean? And over time, this stuff will improve, increase in numbers. And, again, I think it just feels like we need to get to that point. Once we get to that point, all of the negative media that's been out, that's been and and this is this is probably even local authorities and private landowners, and they'll be all reading all this rubbish as well.

Tom Hurst [00:22:02]:
Absolutely.

Liz Allan  [00:22:02]:
It's about educating. And and maybe I'm not trying to say educating in the patronizing way. I just mean educating them in what the truth is because they don't always a lot of the time, they don't get to hear the truth.

Tom Hurst [00:22:16]:
Yep. Totally agree. I totally agree.

Liz Allan  [00:22:18]:
You know? So but look. I I tell you what I wanna talk about as well. You were you put a post out on LinkedIn fairly recently, and we were talking about this beforehand. And I think this is a fantastic idea about the fact that you were looking for independent petrol stations who want to move forward and actually start using their sites for EV charging. How much response did you get from that, and how easy do you think it's going to be? Because to me, it's a fantastic idea.

Tom Hurst [00:22:47]:
Yeah. So it's it's an area that's seeing growing interest. We've I mean, probably for the last 3 or 4 years or so, we've spoken to, various sort of scales of independent forecourt operators. So, you know, the the local family businesses, the small entrepreneurs, the independents with a, you know, a bigger footprint, And they they've always got this, you know, this question of, like, how how do I make that leap and what do I do with the contamination in the land? Yes. That is an investment alone eve even because because, you know, our businesses, we will invest in the charging. Right? We'll invest in the infrastructure upgrades. We'll invest in, the grid connection, for example. But they're still worried about the the the fact that the land underneath their petrol station is without without fail really contaminated with, you know, hydrocarbons and waste.

Tom Hurst [00:23:27]:
Yes. And and it can be an expensive, process to remediate it. So, the the simple message of our clean start campaign is we'll we'll take care of that remediation for you, in exchange for for working in partnership with us. So we'll invest up to well, invest we'll we'll we'll spend up to £250,000 in for instant remediation of of the soil there at that site. Wow. And depending on the the actual sort of the the the existing, petrol station itself, we'll either retain the existing canopy and rebrand it with only charging, obviously, or we might have to replace it with something that that's actually fit for the, you know, modern EVs, in terms of spaces and clearances and accessibility and all those sorts of things. But, yeah, it's it's a great offer. Right? At the moment, we're you know, until the next survey where the the, we we have the best customer service of, any any on route charging company according to the users of ZapMap.

Tom Hurst [00:24:16]:
You you get to work with a with a with a market leader. You get to to work people who've been doing this since the advent of, rapid charging. And people like us who really care and invest our, you know, like I say, our time and energy into every individual location. You know, it's not a cookie cutter approach despite the fact that our our canopies are modular. You know, every little, you know, nuance of a location in terms of traffic access and egress and on-site maneuverability and swept path analysis and all these sorts of things we we do in house. And because because we just gotta get it right and and every small decisions that you make can impact, yeah, overall user experience. So you get us doing that. If for some reason after, you know, our our lease is up, you don't, you know, you don't wanna work with Fastned anymore, which I I hope won't be the case because I think we're actually nice people to work with.

Tom Hurst [00:25:01]:
We we practice what we preach. We're just literally motivated, mission driven individuals here at Fastned as a team. But then so you've got this lovely grid connection, which enables you to, by all means, do your own thing with charging in the future. You've got land that's then decontaminated. So if you wanna do some housing redevelopment, for example, as some people do, if you wanna do other commercial redevelopment, you can do that as well. So we where the aim is to just take away this this risk and leave, like, a a direct benefit. On top of that then, you have the opportunity to still and and with what this is something that we want from our from our retail partners is they can, yeah, develop or or further invest in what they do best, which is selling, you know, other other services to their customers. So, you know, nicer coffee, long things that have a slightly longer dwell time, for example, better snacks, other other services.

Tom Hurst [00:25:51]:
Interesting. They won't they won't sell any oil anymore because that's basically not needed for EVs, but they'll sell a lot of wiper fluid, and the the the vacuum bays and the, the the air, will be well used. But, yeah, it's it's it's a new retail opportunity, and we're just looking for entrepreneurs and like minded individuals that are willing to to take a risk and and get involved in this next stage of the the transition. Right? Because unlike liquid fuels, which you can just deliver to any location, any petrol station anywhere, It's not quite the same with grids. They're, you know, you've gotta you've gotta be in it to win it, and I would be definitely here quite a lot. So when you speak to forecourt operators, they do hear they they EV is on their mind. It's absolutely on the mind of, you know, a a a very, very high percentage of individuals. They but what they also seem to think or they believe, is that, oh, well, they can just wait a bit, and then maybe 10 years from now, they'll just, oh, yeah.

Tom Hurst [00:26:42]:
We'll just convert to electric. Yeah. And knowing how hard it is to convert or even build electric from scratch today, with what is actually still a, you know, relatively, accessible grid with with a good amount of sort of localized, you know, power availability, for example. I yeah. I I think that that that's gonna be a rude awakening for people who do choose to wait that long. So, yeah, inherently we're keen to work with like minded people who are willing to to, yeah, make make that move.

Liz Allan  [00:27:07]:
So I was gonna say so if we look back at what they had to do when they were setting up as independent petrol stations then, that can't be an overnight, surely, because you've actually got all the I don't know what happens underground with, you know, because, obviously, it's built in, isn't it? Yeah.

Tom Hurst [00:27:23]:
But there are tanks in there. Yep. Absolutely.

Liz Allan  [00:27:25]:
So I suppose that that must take that must take a lot of putting in, but probably a heck of a lot taking out as well.

Tom Hurst [00:27:33]:
Yep. That that that's that's why the the the we're putting this money forward to it to allow that.

Liz Allan  [00:27:37]:
Them. So on

Tom Hurst [00:27:39]:
the ground.

Liz Allan  [00:27:39]:
So how long does it I don't know whether you know. How long does it actually take to decontaminate a petrol site then?

Tom Hurst [00:27:46]:
So there are other experts on these on these, these topics who maybe I I can recommend that you speak to as as part of a future podcast. I'm definitely not a sector expert, but, yeah, in short, you know, you can choose to basically dig up all that dirt and decontaminate it off-site, or we can try and do something more on-site using, clever bacteria and other microbes, which is super exciting. So I look forward to the the the first sort of sites going live that we can start talking about or in into that process, but it's it's it's really cool science. It's, yeah, really cool.

Liz Allan  [00:28:16]:
I love it. I love the fact that you're actually doing this because because for those who you can open their eyes to the fact that, you know, we're moving forward here. This is what the future looks like and this is what your site's going to look like. Then if they start, you know, it's about believing in this, isn't it? Getting them to believe in what you're doing.

Tom Hurst [00:28:38]:
Yeah. And I think it's definitely true that the, the, yeah, that that that industry, right, the sort of independent forecourt operators, they once they see, you know, one of their, colleagues, one of their, you know, similar businesses, you know, making this jump, they'll they'll they'll trust it. And and it's it's it's, you know, funny that the right few to help us tell that story, it will be you know, whether it's with people like Fastned or with other operators, there'll be a real sea change. So right now, what we're doing is we're building alongside existing petrol stations. We've got quite a few exciting sites coming, where we're either working with with with, independent retailers to to build alongside them. But what I'm really looking forward to is the sites where we can, just effectively what you know, every every 5 years, it's quite common for a for a for an independent to to rebadge with a different, you know, petrol provider. Yeah. This time, fasten it.

Tom Hurst [00:29:30]:
Just charging. But, yeah. We'll we'll see. Watch watch this space, I would say. We'll, when we can share more, we will.

Liz Allan  [00:29:36]:
Brilliant. I love it. Honestly, like I say, definitely definitely the way forward. I want to see a lot of this happening. So we were talking again before we were we were recording about, the the kind of the customer experience and your apps. And the thing that I didn't even I think I might have realized, but it just hadn't permeated my brain about auto charge. Can you just give a little bit of background to the how the Fastned sites work, how they worked originally, and what they've kind of grown into, and just build auto charge into that.

Tom Hurst [00:30:13]:
Yeah. Okay. I will do my best. So when we started in the Netherlands back in 20 well, 2013, the first stations opened, payment was via either an RFID card or very soon after that we developed our first app, which was must have been one of the first, you know, sort of app payment methods, for for for on the go charging at the time. We also again, because we were, you know, reliant on selling electricity, we were very, active in in in pushing forward the concept of roaming. So working with other charge point operators, working with mobility services providers to enable people with RFID cards or their own apps, for example, to to charge our stations. Because again, we're a pure play charging company. We don't want any barrier for you to to be able to use our sites.

Tom Hurst [00:30:57]:
Any any sort of, you know, any anything that makes it more difficult basically. Moving on then, the the app itself got better and better and we've now got contactless payment terminals at our sites again because, yes, we we love you to use our app, but you don't need to. Right? We just wanna sell you kilowatt hours. So for the same price, you can you can, you know, use use your your bank card. But what happened in 2017 was, I mean, I I again, this is before I joined, but, I think we, us and the ABB team, ABB, the the manufacturer of our chargers at the time, they saw what what Tesla drivers were doing, what they were experiencing. You know, just plug into this this unit and and it starts charging. You just don't have to worry about it. They said, well, hey, why why can't we do this? Why don't we do this? In in in typical sort of Dutch, you know, logical fashion, wouldn't it be logical if we just did this as well? And, yeah, after not too much time, they developed a system to, you know, take the information from the vehicle, link that via the app for the first time, and then after that, every single charger in the Fastned network, for example, will recognize your car and start you charging within a few seconds.

Tom Hurst [00:31:58]:
So it's worth noting that's an open source system. Right? It's called AutoCharge, the it's it's somewhere on GitHub if you're, you know, if you if you use these things and and it's a it's a very simple protocol. I think it's being used by maybe 1 or 2 Scandinavians charge point operators, someone in America as well. And it it again, call it, at least our contribution in the mean to making it easy to charge your vehicle and to to to the transition. So you can still use that with us. It works like a charm unless you have a a there are now 1 of 1 of 2 OEMs or vehicle manufacturers who who don't like, well, strangely would prefer that they control the charging experience, Right. And perhaps make some, margins off the process. It would be my cynical, understanding of it.

Tom Hurst [00:32:42]:
But, yeah, in the meantime, I think, yeah, call it 80% of the vehicles on the road can charge with us on auto charge. But, yeah, the the mission is just to make it simple, make it easy, make you not to worry about it.

Liz Allan  [00:32:54]:
So so right. Okay. Just going back to what you're just saying about so would originally were all cars were all a EV should have been able to take or so charge?

Tom Hurst [00:33:05]:
It comes down to the communication protocols with the CCS system. So the, for example, the ShadowMode, system wouldn't allow it. So Nissan LEAF couldn't and still can't use it. Okay. But again, that that's just a difference in protocol. I think, as as, you know, you got the Nissan Ariya, for example, it uses CCS. It's, as far as I'm aware, able to use, auto charge, And everything is obviously I'd say, obviously, everything is now CCS for for passenger cars, which is the common plug that people will now recognize for for for DC charging, for rapid and ultra rapid charging.

Liz Allan  [00:33:36]:
I was gonna say because there are there are probably probably at some point I'm I'm hoping at some point, there'll be people who are, you know, who are new to this. So it's it's it's good that you're explaining all this. Right. Yes. So so for the Chaddamore users, I'm assuming they can still use the app then to charge.

Tom Hurst [00:33:56]:
Absolutely. Yes. Yes. Yes. They can use the app. They can use their bank card or an RFID card. So we do at this point, I think we've run with about 70 different mobility services providers across Europe. So I think I I the numbers, you know, grow every day, but I think about somewhere between 35,000,000 EV drivers can use our stations here in the UK, across Europe, which, yeah, again, is a very logical way of going about things.

Tom Hurst [00:34:20]:
You know, we we didn't set out to build a a sort of a walled garden. For us it's always been about just bringing in as many people as possible, getting them to use our stuff, and finding actually the added value that we offer, and the the the trust and the experience that we bring, and that's what keeps you coming back.

Liz Allan  [00:34:35]:
Absolutely. And I think that you, you know, the the things that you think of and the way that you think of things as fast as yourself is is is it's really forward thinking in the way that, I wouldn't say everybody thinks the same way as you about the customer experience. It's it's great that you are look you're thinking customer first.

Tom Hurst [00:35:02]:
Yeah. It sounds cheesy, but I don't think there are many decisions made in Fastned that are not made from the perspective of of customer experience. For for our business, you know, the mission is to to to grow to, you know, to profitability, but we don't do so by trying to maximize, I don't know, margins off of, you know, charging, you know, too high or whatever it might be. That's a really simplistic description. But, no. We want people to use our sites and that drives volume and we operate efficiently. We don't, you know, for example, we don't install install 20 charges from day 1 at a site because actually that'll be, you know, 15 charges just sat there not doing anything, depreciating with warranty costs, pushing down on our, profit loss kind of thing, when actually, we just make sure that the charges that we do have work. We also make sure that our sites are expandable, so we might have pre ducting in place that enables us to install more charges as time goes on.

Tom Hurst [00:35:56]:
And what you see then is our our sort of growth curve is still perfectly in line or in advance of the EV uptake curve, but our expenditure is is is is much more closely managed at that point. So it's about future proofing for us. Yes.

Liz Allan  [00:36:09]:
Yeah. Absolutely. And kind of there were we talked before, didn't we, about the fact that there some of your sites don't have contactless, but you're you're kind of going around retrofitting the ones that aren't contactless. Do you think there will be once I suppose this is a generic question. When all sites have to be contactless by in November due to the charging regs, Would do you think you'll see an increased utilization?

Tom Hurst [00:36:38]:
Increased utilization? I mean, I I I would say it would make sense. We definitely get the feedback from drivers, you know, who've on those older sites, they don't have, the contactless readers yet. They do say, yeah. It was nice, but I would like to pay with my bank card, so it would make sense that, yeah, it's possible with the certainly shedding some some potential customers. But, yeah, I it's it's a bad choice. Right? If this is what drives us in the UK one, then this is what we're gonna provide.

Liz Allan  [00:37:03]:
But like you say, with regards to auto charge, if you're only having to use that your app once and then it recognizes, as long as your bank details, I'm assuming, is set up correctly Exactly. And you've not got an expired card on it or anything like that, then then literally so so next time I go to a charge point that's so fastened, it'll it'll automatically recognize.

Tom Hurst [00:37:26]:
Yep. Yep. Your IONIQ is compatible with it, this much I know. So

Liz Allan  [00:37:31]:
That's fantastic. Like I say, it's it's good to it's good to know that that that sort of that plug and charge experience or auto charger experience, you know, is available in in so many so many vehicles. Just going back as well Esteej. So and I don't know whether we've mentioned the number of sites and the number of countries you're in. I know we kind of talked a little bit about it. You've got 1700 is it 70 yeah. So 1700 charges across 302 locations in 7 countries.

Tom Hurst [00:38:07]:
Yep. That's

Liz Allan  [00:38:08]:
that's pretty good going, isn't it? I know, you know, you said to me earlier that you oh, we've only got 23 sites. Actually, that's still not bad. No. And and look We're

Tom Hurst [00:38:18]:
very happy with what we've done, and we're very happy with the pipeline that we've got coming down the line. I mean it sounds cheesy, you know, to say that for us it's quality not quantity, but again

Liz Allan  [00:38:27]:
Well, cheesy.

Tom Hurst [00:38:28]:
It is. We just you know these sites have to work and again we will work hard to make sure that the right thing gets consented and gets built and we will yeah we'll we like we like doing it our way I guess. But, yeah, we've got a target for a 1000 sites across Europe by 2030. So that's that's what occupies us as a UK team, as a as a European team. And, yeah, it's it's there because, you know, that's that's the interim goal, really. But, yeah, one of the great things about working at Fastned is it's is it's such a collaborative business. So, yeah, I mean, you know, we've we've always been this this this big team that is able to work together and have fun together. And and the the culture is such that, you know, when when my colleagues in France have a success or win a big tender or open a nice new site or sign whatever it might be, us and the rest of our colleagues in Amsterdam are busy getting super excited about it.

Tom Hurst [00:39:16]:
It's just so because we're just, yeah, so intrinsically motivated, to to build the business and to to basically keep being in a position to show, yeah, the competition, the incumbents, how it can be done. And it's just great knowing that I can pick up the phone to a colleague in in Germany, in Cologne, for example, or colleague in in, in Copenhagen, go, hey, you know, can you help me with this problem? I've got this problem. And likewise, they know that they can do that with me or anyone in the team. And that's, you know, it's it's something pretty unique and it's, definitely a little part of our secret sauce, I guess. And that's been that's been instilled in the business since, you know, before I came. Right? Our our our our co founders, had, you know, other than the sort of broad goal of helping drive the the acceleration, accelerate the transition, they were really about doing this right and doing it and having fun at the same time and working as a team. And, Yeah. It's it's a yeah.

Tom Hurst [00:40:05]:
Like, it's worth me worth worth noting, we're recruiting for a number of roles roles across Europe, and I would heartily recommend people keep on checking our our recruitment pages and our LinkedIn, and and by all means, read our, the the section in our in our website that really describes Fastned culture because it's it's something special. And what you hear time and time again when people join us, they're they're so surprised that it is like we said. You know? Like, it actually is a big collegiate team, that is welcoming. It's open. It's inclusive. And it just makes you know, it still makes me very proud that we've, you know when I joined, I was employee 25. We're over 300 people. We're approaching 300 people now.

Tom Hurst [00:40:46]:
It still feels like the same company. It's it's we're we're dealing with all kinds of challenges around scaling up a business and being internationalizing in this way and it still feels like the same business. So it's a testament to the the the the strength of the culture that's been, yeah, built and developed over these years and that we kept going through COVID when all of a sudden we were used to seeing each other on all you know, on a regular basis. All of a sudden the the the walls came down obviously. And, yeah, it's been a great ride.

Liz Allan  [00:41:12]:
Yeah. And and and COVID was quite a difficult time for quite, you know, a lot a lot of people, but you've just have to you've kept going and going. And I tell you, I was gonna actually mention about the number of people that you've got employed. And what I really liked about what we were talking about before is and people who know me know I'm a real continuous improvement geek, but you are you the way that you talk and the way that you you were talking about before you, to me, you were talking about brainstorming and the fact that you like to look at how to continuously improve the stuff that you do internally, that you look at little things and little detail and you take that feedback. It's brilliant.

Tom Hurst [00:41:51]:
Yep. I I think I think that's it. So from from our side, what we really focus on and making sure is making sure we get the, let's say, the MVP right from day 1. So it's the fundamental station architecture and layouts. But then but then we learn how our customers use it. We learn what their feedback is and what their pain points might be on that site. We learn what our operations team feel about operating that site, right, as well. It's very important that it's safe, for them to to to do maintenance and to to work on the electrics.

Tom Hurst [00:42:18]:
And then that that, you know, that means we can we can fix things on-site. We can fix things inside stations that are still in construction or about to be designed, for example. And all that learning sort of iterates and, just, yeah, feeds through that way. And, yeah, it's it's just, you know, part of how we work.

Liz Allan  [00:42:36]:
So just as an aside then, what's the most surprising feedback, whether it was good or bad that you had from a customer?

Tom Hurst [00:42:47]:
Let me see. Let me get my phone out and have a look at it

Liz Allan  [00:42:49]:
for you.

Tom Hurst [00:42:50]:
I didn't wanna put you on the spot. I wasn't trying to. I just thought I think a general thing that still surprises me, and I've I get these numbers right. Like, our customer team spent 40% spend about 40% of their time receiving compliments.

Liz Allan  [00:43:05]:
And that's good.

Tom Hurst [00:43:06]:
It it boggles the mind. Right? Like, how many companies like, how often do you go out of your way to call up a customer support line and compliment someone?

Liz Allan  [00:43:13]:
And go, you're really good. No. We don't.

Tom Hurst [00:43:16]:
I never have, never will, and but but people do and it's just amazing. So at the very least, for me, that's, you know, an absolute testament to the, yeah, the the the whole the whole story. Right? Because, you know, the the customer experience starts at the design phase, you know, even the site finding phase, and it ends with how these stations are operated. The customer support, the app, the screens, the interfaces, the website, and all of that comes together, at that point that you, you know, arrive when you first sort of see the canopies or the wings in the distance. And then to the moment that that you you sort of unplug the charger at the end of your session, that's and it and it it works and and that that kind of still boggles me that, you know, what I what I've, you know, when I'm when I'm talking to new or prospective landlords, for example, then I it's still everything I say is true, you know, that and and and we still get the feedback. They're still positive, and we're still as good as we say we are. And that's just yeah. It's a real product of teamwork.

Tom Hurst [00:44:08]:
It's a product of sticking to what we we know we're good at. We're not getting distracted. Really just focusing on on getting the charging side of things right and that end of the customer experience. Once you've absolutely you're sure you've nailed that, then you can add all these additional elements to it. So we've just upgraded 2 of our sites with with further amenities beyond them. So there's more seating. There's now an infotainment screen that tells you about, you know, the the concept of charge curves, for example, that helps you understand That's good. You know, not all cars charge the same.

Tom Hurst [00:44:37]:
Not all cars charge the same at same point in their charging. Right. For example, and, yeah, we've got some lovely planting there. All these little things that we can do, but, yeah, again, it's just, it's it's a particular way of doing things, and I think we're in quite a unique position with that with the way that we're structured as a business. It is worth noting that Fastned is a it's basically set up as a foundation. So our our, you know, our chief executive, the rest of our executives, the rest of our business is held to account by our supervisory board, which has to make sure that we are we act in line with the the the FAST mission basically, which is to build, you know, ultra rapid in in sort of translated form, ultra rapid charging on high traffic locations with energy from the sun and the wind, and that's it. And every decision that we make is is in line with that that basic mission to accelerate the transition to sustainable mobility. And that makes decision making really quite easy.

Tom Hurst [00:45:30]:
It enables you to to decentralize decision making really quite easy. Right? To operate with a relatively small team, because you know, right, is is what I'm doing gonna make it easier to charge? Is it gonna make it, more pleasant? Is it gonna drive more traffic to this site? And that that that is then, you know, a very efficient way of of keeping people in, yeah, low, I guess, a low overhead, or low management overhead. Right? Yeah. That's

Liz Allan  [00:45:57]:
yeah. What? So those 3 so what's that's that's your mission and vision or mission or this just the ethics

Tom Hurst [00:46:04]:
It's a it's a similar mission A whole

Liz Allan  [00:46:05]:
lot, isn't it?

Tom Hurst [00:46:07]:
Which is to accelerate the transition to sustainable mobility by providing freedom for electric drivers. So that that wraps it up. But really, yeah, practically speaking, what what the board has held to is is that is is is doing this, you know, we're not we're not in the coffee business, we're not in, you know, other sorts of ancillary services to maximize, you know, revenue generation potential from a location. All lovely stuff, but, it it it it's it's a challenge just doing the charging right. And if you get distracted, yeah your customers start to notice.

Liz Allan  [00:46:36]:
Yes. So concentrate on what you're good at.

Tom Hurst [00:46:38]:
That's that's for us. So we we work with people who are really good at coffee, You know? We we locate in places where, there are other other services for our customers and then the the greenfield sites that we're building as well. Again, we work with partners that we will develop the the, you know, the coffee, the the the toilets, all these other sort of necessities basically. Obviously, you can't open a greenfield site without without without, basic facilities. But, again, that's not the actual the fastened focus. We have opened our first shop, it's worth noting, in in Belgium off the highway there. Okay. Very, very, very, very cool experience, and we'll be opening a few more in in Belgium as well, soon, which, you know, is a is a combination of the the requirements of that particular concession, but it's proving a very useful, learning experience to see how this, you know, how this augments the charging experience, how how, you know, this can be synergistic is maybe a wrong word, but, yeah, how how what the feed the customer feedback loop looks like there.

Liz Allan  [00:47:36]:
I'm really looking forward to see how this evolves over the over the next few years for you. In in fact, I suppose one of my final questions could be, what how do you you talked about the sites that you've got in planning. What would you like the future to look like? We've got, at the moment, the the data recording wherein a few weeks not very far away from a general election, are we, in the UK specifically? And it doesn't necessarily have to be UK related, but what what would you like to happen over the next over the next weeks, months, years?

Tom Hurst [00:48:13]:
The the EVs and, I mean, it's Yeah. Because My desires, yeah, stretch, to all all governments everywhere, acting in the interest of avoiding an absolute climate catastrophe. And, I mean, you know, I I support any political party that, puts a priority on that and does, you know, takes takes the sort of the bold action necessary, to to do this, to stick with a long term industrial strategy, to stick to their guns, not to pull policies away at the you know, at short notice and and kill whole industries that were forming, for example, in his long term thinking ambition. And, again, this is not that's not particularly political. Right? These are qualities that can apply to any political party. And, yeah, we'll see where we go. But, my my personal mission is to to to build a network. That means I can travel around the UK for free, basically.

Tom Hurst [00:49:08]:
We're getting there actually. We might get there sooner than than I intended, but, that's that's just that's a the the a midterm goal for myself.

Liz Allan  [00:49:16]:
That's good. That's good. And, actually, what you've just said about I think it's about removing short termism from political parties, which isn't and I'm do you know what? And I've said this on some LinkedIn posts. I never ever saw myself as a political person, but some of the things that have been happening have made me want, you know, kind of just wanna tear my hair out.

Tom Hurst [00:49:40]:
Well, this, yeah, this stuff shouldn't be political. Right? It it it doesn't, you know, it doesn't the the climate crisis doesn't care which way you lean politically.

Liz Allan  [00:49:48]:
Of course. It doesn't. Absolutely.

Tom Hurst [00:49:49]:
And it's, yeah. It it it's, I what I would yeah. What I'd like to see is it for it to be for it to be thoroughly deep depoliticized, to be bipartisan, so that we can focus on the bigger social issues that we we have alongside this.

Liz Allan  [00:50:03]:
Yeah. Do you know, that's a really good place to end, you know. Actually, I I think, yeah. I I I'm I'm kinda it's not that I'm lost for words. I just don't want to add anything else onto that because I think that that is a that is a point that for those who are watching and listening, I'm sure you'll you'll be agreeing, hopefully. And by the time this is out, we will know who's gonna be in in in, you know, there'll be a new government. So so, yes, we shall we shall see. I don't think it's I don't think we're gonna get any changes overnight no matter where we are.

Liz Allan  [00:50:39]:
But, hopefully hopefully, over time, they'd start accelerating it. Start putting the foot down a little bit, you know, accelerating it.

Tom Hurst [00:50:46]:
A good choice of words. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:50:48]:
Yeah. I do try. So I tell you what, where's the finally, where's the best place for people to find you? I mean, obviously, you get on stage quite a lot. I don't mean in kind of like a in a kind of jazz hands type of way, but you you are asked and invited to be a speaker quite regularly. Is there anything up and coming that you're gonna be speaking at?

Tom Hurst [00:51:13]:
Not myself, but the team will be at the Move Electric, event in London next week, I think it is. Oh, I guess that will be in the past by the time it goes down. If if you saw us there, great. Love it. We'll obviously be at the transport and energy, event, in I think is that September, November? November? Mhmm. There's a few more, localized events, that will be at, but, yeah, we'll be around.

Liz Allan  [00:51:40]:
So, you're quite you you post quite regularly on LinkedIn, so I suppose people can see what you're saying, read what you're saying on on on LinkedIn?

Tom Hurst [00:51:50]:
Yep. And check just check out the website, you know, and we've, yeah, there's all there's always news. That we're very busy. Every day is a new day, like, there's no boring day, for Fastned. So, yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:52:02]:
Thank you. Well, I'll make sure that all of those links are in the show notes when this goes live anyway. So, Tom, it's been I knew it was gonna be a fascinating discussion. Thank you ever so much for joining me. It's just been brilliant and and lovely to learn about how positive and how customer focused you guys are. So so thank you to you and your team for doing a brilliant job.

Tom Hurst [00:52:26]:
Thanks so much. Yeah. No. No. Our job is not done. Our job is not done, but we will continue.

Liz Allan  [00:52:30]:
Thank you. And to everybody else, thank you ever so much for watching and listening, and I shall see you next time. Bye bye.

Tom Hurst [00:52:37]:
Thanks so much, Liz. Bye bye. Bye bye.