What to do When the First Amendment Free Speech is on the Line? - with Rebecca Lavrenz

When the gavel fell on Rebecca Lavrenz's trial, the echo rang through the hearts of many who hold the Constitution dear. We peel back the layers of a courtroom that felt more like a political stage than a beacon of justice, as we recount the gripping trial of a praying grandmother and Constitution coach. Rebecca's conviction has sparked a national conversation, now fueled by figures like Donald Trump and Elon Musk, about the bedrock principles of our republic and the First Amendment. We take you inside the trial to dissect the troubling nuances and share the palpable frustration over a verdict that seems to stand at odds with the ideals we cherish.

With Rebecca's faith and fighting spirit as the undercurrent, this episode explores the potential for her conviction to reach the highest court in the land. We're not just commenting from the sidelines; we're in the thick of it, discussing how political leanings of judges may weigh upon the scales of justice and the constitutional arguments poised to form the bulwark of an appeal. As we draw parallels to historical figures who've faced the furnace for their convictions, we ponder the ironic possibility that Rebecca's case may amplify the very freedoms it sought to silence and stir public debate over the justice system's impartiality.

Our conversation shifts from outrage to action, as we hear her impassioned call for a cultural renaissance rooted in civic responsibility and godly values. Through tales of resilience and the rallying cry to 'Make America Godly Again,' Rebecca inspires listeners to become catalysts of change in their communities. This is more than a podcast—it's a clarion call. And for those seeking the full, unfiltered account, the entire exchange awaits at PatriotU on the Tavern show, a testament to the unwavering support for Rebecca and the restoration of the values we hold dear.

Chapters

• 0:07 Praying Grandma Convicted for Capitol Prayer
• 11:23 Discussing J6 Conviction Appeal Process
• 19:21 Inspiring Joy and Action in America
• 26:25 Supporting Rebecca

Transcript

Rick Green

Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's Wall Builders taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective. We're going to jump right into my interview with Rebecca Lavrenz. She is the praying grandma that has now been convicted on four counts from January 6th, of an absolute travesty, an absolute injustice, what they're doing to her. She literally is the praying grandma that went to Washington DC because she's a concerned citizen. She went through one of our Constitution classes several years ago, got excited about being a good citizen and having her voice heard. She's one of our Constitution coaches and she went to DC to simply stand with the president and to pray at the Capitol. She fasted for five days and then prays at the Capitol for 10 minutes and gets arrested for it and now facing one year in prison as a result of this out-of-control Department of Justice, out-of-control FBI harassing Americans for simply living out their First Amendment rights. She has now gone to trial. I went to Washington DC to testify on her behalf in that federal courthouse right downtown Washington DC, and she was convicted on all four counts.

There's some things we can't talk about because her sentencing has not happened yet and won't happen until August, and so we want to be careful about that in terms of our conversation with her. I am righteously furious about what has happened to our justice system. I am righteously angry about what they're doing, not only to her, but to thousands of others and to the system itself the complete undermining of our justice system, the complete destruction of our Constitution, our Bill of Rights, due process, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. They're doing everything they can to completely destroy it, and she is going to become actually already has become the poster child for this.

The left has gone too far. I think they know it, but they just can't help themselves. So now Donald Trump has tweeted out about her case, Elon Musk and many, many others, and it has thrust her to the forefront of this entire debate, and I truly believe it's going to change the debate. It's going to change the argument and people that are in the middle of the road that either haven't paid attention to this or really have just thought all along. These are people that broke into the Capitol, broke windows, attacked cops. Of course they should be prosecuted. Well, now they're going to find out. Yeah, there were some of those that are being prosecuted, but then thousands of others that are being persecuted, not prosecuted. Rebecca, welcome back.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Oh, Rick, I'm excited to be on your show.

Rick Green

I want to start by saying how thankful I am for you. You are a warrior for the Lord. You're an absolute example of what a biblical citizen is somebody willing to stand up for truth, willing to take your licks and not be afraid, not cower, not give in. They are putting you through and you know not be afraid, not cower, not give in. That they are putting you through, and your family is it's. It makes me righteously angry, as you know, but you encourage me and and so many other people.

This is injustice, not justice, and so the Lord, I think, is going to use you to be literally the turning point on this whole J6 thing. Reframe the whole thing. I was just on a show a couple of days ago with Lance Wallnau on his afternoon show and when I was telling him about you and the trial and just all the stuff, that's exactly what he said. Her case is going to reframe the whole thing in the minds of Americans who have thought something totally different about J6. It is now going to be the catalyst for helping them to see the truth. So I don't know if that makes you feel good or what, but that's the facts.

Rebecca Lavrenz

It makes me feel thankful. Amen. I haven't stopped being excited about this whole turn of events. I'm very competitive and I play sports. As a kid, my dad was a coach. My husband was a coach. Both my boys played college baseball. And you know, when you go into a game you always want to win right, even if you're the underdog, and that's why I went into this. To the very last minute. When I was called up for the verdict after four days of deliberation, I thought surely they're going to give me an acquittal, or at least for one count.

And then you know, and then I get called in after actually three, almost three full days and a part of another one on deliberation for misdemeanors.

Rick Green

What's crazy, though, is Rebecca. I mean, it is that much of a kangaroo court In my opinion. I know you're not, you shouldn't say anything about the court. You got a sentencing coming up, but it is. It is so different from what I learned in law school. It is so different from what people think of when they think justice system. You know, I think we have this complete misnomer now that when you go to trial, it's like okay, both sides throw everything in there and you know they make their arguments for why you're guilty, you make your arguments for why you're innocent, and then let the jury decide. And that is not how it works. Very little actually gets to the jury.

Objection after objection after objection, and I just comical you know comic relief here I almost laughed out loud and whenever they objected to my testimony during your trial, and they all pick up the phones and they put white noise over the speakers so that nobody can hear them. I've never seen that before, and it was the same white noise that I sleep to at night. So I play white noise when I'm in these hotels all over the country. So I don't know if you noticed, but I was kind of starting to nod off on the stand because I'm like Pavlov's dog you play that white noise, I'm asleep, so that was just weird. But you had to watch that happen the whole 10 days right, Objection after objection after objection.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Yeah, well, one of my daughters was sitting in the audience and she got a little upset too. So she almost got thrown in jail. Because she said well, if they can say objection, so could I. So she did that and she got reprimanded by the judge.

I think that the thing that bothers me so much is because they actually do. They have rules that. I've never been on trial for anything before, but I just thought, like you said, that everything you throw everything out there, you give your best shot, they get and the jury decides. But when they make the rules up, they just kind of change them to fit so they win every time.

Rick Green

Yeah, it's a stacked deck. It's manipulating the outcome by controlling what the jury actually hears and when you're on trial for exercising your First Amendment rights and you're not allowed to talk about the First Amendment. Something's not right. I mean that right. There should be glaring to everyone in the country about what a problem this is and just how bad this stacked deck actually is. And, of course, you talked about it last time you were on the program but 100 percent conviction rate.

I thought, though, that that was really because of the 99 percent Democrat area of DC. I think that's only a factor. I think it really is. I think there were people on that jury that wanted absolutely to exonerate you. I think there were people. I mean, they took three and a half days to deliberate. They asked multiple times about the First Amendment. I looked into their faces and it looked to me like there would be some people that would want to acquit you, and I think it's not just the 99 percent Democrat DC area where they're getting the jury pool from. It is the manipulation of justice, by the way, that they're not letting the jury hear both sides.

And I know you probably shouldn't comment on that.

Rebecca Lavrenz

I mean he couldn't say where he worked, he could not say that he lived in Washington DC, was brought up there, that he lived there. They couldn't even bring that up. And yeah, I thought that's what I thought. I thought I could go there for my First Amendment rights and then they actually did say this is on record though, so I can say this that I could not use my First Amendment right for my defense. And if I did, the judge instructed me that if I use the second, I could say the First Amendment in my testimony, which I did take the stand for about four to five hours on Monday, the sixth day of the trial, and he said I could say that, but if I did, then the jury would be instructed that that could not be used. He would give that in the jury's jury.

Rick Green

Yeah, unbelievable, the very thing that is really at the heart of this whole thing, and it was. I mean I am so glad that I got to come out there and at least see you in action and see the court in action and, honestly in my mind, just see the manipulation of the process, the number of prosecutors from the DOJ. I mean it was like a. I mean here they're spending all this money and have all the you know what was it? Four DOJ attorneys and the counterterrorism guy from the FBI and they're there for a week and a half for the praying grandma. Are you kidding me? I mean, how many cartel guys and drug.

I mean that part was appalling. But watching you in action was just a blessing. I mean both behind the scenes, outside of the courtroom, in the courtroom. I'm just thankful for you. You are being a great example of a biblical citizen and a child of God and a follower of Christ, and so I believe he is shining through you, despite the evil, your light in the darkness, and it is now going to be used, I believe, to wake up a lot of people out there. That night when I saw your you know, of course, I was only out there with you for the one day and my what three minutes of testimony. I think they argued for an hour right over whether or not I could keep testifying, I don't know. Five minutes, whatever it was, it was well worth it.

It was worth the travel out there and getting to see you in action and see the court in action.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Oh, I've got to mention this. This is on record. I got my Constitution out my little pocket, one that you gave me, the little blue one and I read the First Amendment. I did Fucking principles. Yes, I did wear my Patriot tip-in.

Rick Green

Oh, that is great. That is great. I love it. I'm so proud of you.

I just you know, and the attitude that you've had has been incredible, I think, only supernatural. Only through God's grace can he give you the peace to go through this kind of thing. And you know the idea that you literally have the weight of the entire federal government coming after you, the threats, the whole nine yards, everything about it and, you know, facing a year in prison. This is all designed to intimidate and to silence and to chill free speech. That's why the effect on the First Amendment is so important to be talked about and especially even as a person of faith, being able to live out what you believe and your rights of conscience, as the Founding Fathers would have talked about, and you are fighting to defend that and you're an example for all of us. Let's talk a little bit about your next steps. I know you've got a few months here before the actual sentencing that takes place. How does that work? Do you go back to DC for that? What are you expecting? It's August, something August 12th, I think.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Yeah, they said I have 110 days. They have to have 110 days probationary period and I guess that's to investigate my character during that time, that type of thing, I guess. And so my sentence is August 12th and, yes, I do have to appear in person for that.

And. I think that I don't know if they can. I guess I can have witnesses for a character you know for that. I don't think they have to appear in person. I don't know, I'm not 100% sure about that. I'm supposed to get some instruction on that in an email, some forms to fill out. But yeah, that's the next step.

Rick Green

Well, a lot of people have asked me about your case. And okay, what now? Can she appeal? And it'd be the DC Circuit court that would be appealed to. And I saw there was a similar case with the same four misdemeanors just denied on appeal and of course it was two Obama judges and a Biden judge. I just posted today about it. You know, I'm like shocking, absolutely shocking, that two Obama judges and a Biden judge, would you know, uphold a J6 conviction and not question these things. I don't know, and certainly I don't want to be a downer, but it seems to me like I mean, really, the appeal is the presidential race and a potential pardon in January. Is that what you and your legal team are feeling, or is that even anything you can address on television?

Rebecca Lavrenz

Well, I think some of you saw I mean you mentioned that I was tweeted by President Trump, you know, and put in the same category with him and then one of my attorneys did retweet that and he said what we are planning to do is we are going to appeal this. We cannot appeal it until after the sentencing, but because of some of the things that came out and how the prosecution and the attorney handled the First Amendment, they said that's pretty much gold.

It actually is a gold thing that we can appeal and even if we have to, all the way to the Supreme Court because of the total violation of my first offense, 

Rick Green

oh, that's great, that is great to hear, because I was not sure what those next steps would be and, as you said, even if the DC Circuit Court, you know, is a lost cause and I don't remember how the rest of it's made up, you end up with three of.

I thought it was like 20 or something on there, and so it depends on which three you draw. But as long as your guys, your attorneys who I really like, by the way if they're thinking, okay, yeah, but we're looking beyond that, we're looking at a Supreme Court appeal potentially on these very important constitutional issues, I mean, this is not to be taken lightly by people. This is not one person that this affects.

We're literally talking about not allowing the First Amendment to be, discussed in a trial about the First Amendment and the chilling that that will have on the whole country or any kind of political speech or rally or ability to have your voice heard is just devastating to our system and our representative form of government.

Rebeccca Lavrenz 

I think that’s why to me when I got the guilty verdict I was shocked but at the same time, this is a good thing because and I think we discussed that after the trial. This is actually what God wanted because I had thousands of people praying for me. I don't know how many, I mean, I probably was in the hundreds of thousands.

I would not put a past that, and when you have that, many people that love God and know how to pray in faith and believe that then, however, it turned out, that was a God thing, because I have it on my desk here, Thomas Jefferson's quote when government fear the people, there's liberty, and when the people fear the government, that's tyranny. And I know I've raised my family, I have grandchildren, but my life is my own and that's the way I went into that and you said it before. All the people praying for me gave me the strength and encouragement but plus my foundation of knowing God and following after Him for 55 years. It's like I really don't care about the outcome. I was touched. I went to Lexington and saw some of those things and one of those Minutemen that crawled back to you could probably tell the story but crawled back to the house and died at his wife's feet. It's just like he gave his life. You know. Yeah, amen.

And then how I on the way back, I had no idea where Nathan Hale was. I had just finished reading the book and we're driving back from Lexington on the way back to DC an eight-hour drive. Got to get back there to see my attorneys on Sunday night and then all of a sudden, Jennifer, driving the car looks to the side and there's this little sign that says Hale birthplace. And so she said, mom, that's where Nathan Hale was born. So she goes a little further, finds the next exit, turns around. We get to go there, and that was probably the highlight of my trip, I think, was seeing his birthplace, the man who said 14 words. You know, whichever you want to say, I only regret that I have one life to lose or give for my country. I got to walk around there and you know our country needs to be saved, Rick, and if I get to be part of that to help turn it around, then that's my assignment.

So, whatever, it turns out, you know then, that's my assignment.

Rick Green

that night, you know, I looked at Kara and I said you know, I really thought she would be the first one acquitted. It was so egregious but the fact that you were convicted and of course I texted that to you either that night or the next day, I can't remember and then we got on the phone. You know that it's better. It's actually better because if you had been acquitted, people would be under the illusion that the system works. They would say, oh yeah, see, I mean, obviously that was egregious and so therefore she was acquitted, whereas the fact that you were convicted calls into question every one of those other thousand trials, all the other convictions. It makes people have to stop and think wait what you got? A great grandmother that was praying at the Capitol. She's been convicted. They want a year in jail. I mean it's making people stop and think about it and you know better than I do, you probably thought about it, prayed about it a million times in the last year.

If Joseph had not been put into prison by Potiphar, he would not have been raised up to the position of leadership that he was, and so you know, I pray that you don't have to do any actual time and that it will be probation that they sentence you to during this period until you get to the pardon. But regardless of what they do, your platform, your voice, the ability for you to speak truth and for people to hear it actually hear it, because I can shout it all day long they're going to listen to you. You are going to have a magnified voice that is so important for our country right now. So I believe God has put you here no question for such a time as this. I know I'm saying all the cliches and it sounds some people might say I'm being trite. It's real, it's happening right now and God is using you to help save our country. There's no doubt about it and I'm just thankful for you.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Well, thank you. I don't know if you saw this, because I sent it in my newsletter, but this is what is so powerful. I'm getting lots of requests from my website the Restoring Godly Culture and people will just go to my website and drop their email.

Rick Green

By the way, I want to make sure we give out the website multiple times tonight, listen. First of all, it costs money to go through everything that she's already gone through, plus now the appeals. The money does not stop being needed right now. In fact, it's needed more than ever. So give the website again, and I'm telling you people, this is a great investment in freedom. You're not just helping Rebecca, you're helping defend the First Amendment, you're helping all of us that care about restoring the country. Now, I don't know what you were going to say, but first give the website and then say, whatever it was you were going to say Go ahead, sorry.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Restoringgodlyculture.com.

Rick Green

Good Restoringgodlyculture.com.

Rebecca Lavrenz

And there's a tab on there that you can click to donate but drop your email in there, and I'm sending right now anyway daily updates on what's going on or what I'm thinking about what's on my heart.

Rick Green

All right, quick break folks, We'll be right back. You're listening to the WallBuilders Show

Tim Barton

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Rick Green

We're back here on the WallBuilder Show, jumping right back in with our interview with Rebecca Lavrenz. I've been so encouraged by your emails I don't know how much you get. I'm thinking she is going through the fire right now and she's taking time to send these emails and it's lighting up my morning, it's making me feel better about the fight and encouraging me. So, again, God's using you. I'm sorry, go ahead.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Okay. Well, yeah, I mean I get all these people putting their names in there to get added to my list and I get that a lot, but that's what it's about encouraging, inspiring others to be strong. Well, yesterday I got this email- Because people can you can comment in your email and this guy gave me a donation. I know this guy it's anonymous, so I don't really know if it's a man or a woman but they gave me a $10 donation.

And you know what he said. He said I was a Democrat and I saw what they're doing to you and it made me sick when they do that to a praying grandma. And he gave me 10 bucks and I thought, if that's what it's about, it's about if we can turn, if I could turn one Democrat who is going the other direction and start and believe in our country again.

You know, that's worth it.

And so that's why you need to go to my website.

Rick Green

Yes, go and get on the email list and then share it. Be a force multiplier. Share her website. Don't just go there and make a donation. Share it with everybody you can. I think people are realizing how poisonous and corrupt that whole machine is. Unfortunately, it's not just the party machine that's corrupt. It's the agencies that are corrupt as well, and that's why we're seeing the abuse of people like you by the system and why we have to have to absolutely change this thing. How can people pray for you? What would you want them to be praying for you right now?

Rebecca Lavrenz

That I become a force multiplier. Well, I guess the main thing that I want is that I can get my voice out to as many people as they can, but that my voice would be used to inspire people to stand up and do whatever they can, just for an example. I mean, there are some things that God's put in my heart that I might do to make that happen a little bit more and get more voices out there. But to me, I think we've come through a period of Christianity and a culture where it's been more about the platform than the purpose. That came to me this morning and I think a lot of Christians think well, oh, Rick Green is so powerful up there at the top, let him do all the talking. But Rick doesn't do that. He has 28,000 coaches and I'm one, and that's what I want to encourage people to do something.

I have a niece that gets my newsletters and she feels kind of the same way and she has four children that she's homeschooling and every day she gets it and she reads it to her kids. She reads the email to her kids and she gets them to stand up and take it. So they're building that inside them who our country is and what we stand for and things like that and our civic duties. And I know people say we run for Congress, be on the school board and do other things, but a lot of people that's not exactly their bent or their calling. But there's something everybody can do If you can share my message with four or five people, or just like one of my sisters I talked to, had a good long talk.

A couple of my sisters and one of them sends it out to all of her family and some of her family were thinking the other way and now they're starting to see that. Hey, I know, Rebecca, that's not what she's like. Why are they doing that to her? And then another sister said all my friends in my town are more, they're very much liberal. And she says I want to connect with those other people that I met last summer when I met President Trump with you, and she wants to get more involved. So every time that happens it's just multiplied One times five. If you take.

Okay, if I reach a thousand people, that's 5,000, you know we can wake up the sleeping giant and that's what I want you to pray that I, that my voices rises up. Other voices.

Rick Green

Oh, I love it. I love it. That is you are so right on. That's the whole thing is that you know, we have to all say it. Every single one of us has something to do here. This is not you can't say, you know, Rick will do it, or Gene Bailey will do it, or David Barton will do it, or President Trump will take care of everything. It’s what can I do. I have to stand up, and that's one thing I love about your emails is that not only are you encouraging people and you're getting them to take action, you're educational in them as well. You've always got some little history, a quote or somewhere you just went, like the monument of the forefathers or Lexington or like you're talking about. It's a great journey for people to go along with you and it's going to help educate their family on these things. It's going to help show them that they can make a difference. So I highly recommend it. Encourage people to get on your email list, make a donation, get involved to all of our constitution coaches out there that are watching, to anybody that watches the tavern or listens to WallBuilders or Flashpoint or any of these programs. This is a great way to be a force multiplier. I promise you'll be encouraging. So, restoringgodlyculture.com. Restoringgodlyculture.com we're going to make America godly again.

Rebecca Lavrenz

That's the most important thing that we can do. Yeah, that's my new tagline. Remember Make America Godly Again. The new MAGA movement.

Rick Green

Make America Godly again. That'd be awesome. Well, you are such a blessing and such an inspiration. We're with you all the way and anything we can do to help that our listeners can do to help. Can't wait for you and your family to come visit the campus at Fredericksburg, just excited about what the Lord has for you and the fact that you have joy in the fight. I keep telling everybody you know you have to be a believer to understand this, but you can be righteously angry and joyful at the same time. Rebecca is a perfect example of that. So thank you for being so good at this.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Well, you know what I got to say that on the witness stand. I actually said this. I said I've lived a long life and every time you have a choice, I have a choice to either have joy or hate. I said I don't, I have no animosity, or I love everyone to be in the court and I could choose joy and I choose. I chose joy. That's why I wore the little squiggly things on my head.

Rick Green

Literally these patriotic, what were they? Stars, or I can't remember the red, white and blue and yeah, yeah, and they made such a as if you antennas talking to some foreign entities that inv- I mean it’s just so silly the way they made such a big deal out of it.  

Rebecca Lavrenz

 I could have made something about that, but I thought if I do that they really might think I they'll commit me to the nut house or something. You know she's way out, there she goes. That's how I communicate to God, to those little antennas on my head.

Oh, it's so funny, yeah, anyway

Rick Green 

 only only with joy can you, can you face that fight the way that you do? Yeah.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Exactly

Rick Green 

I love it. I don't know if I've ever told you this or not, but even our family motto literally the Green family motto is with joy the Green family will. And then we've got this whole thing about what we do, but it starts with joy and you represent that so well. I think that's why we get along so well and we love locking shields together.

Rebecca Lavrenz

No wonder, now I know the real reason. It's one of your values, that's right. I should have known that. Yeah, that's mine too 

Rick Green

God bless you. Please tell your whole family thank you for standing with you and I know this has been tough on them as well your daughter's being there with you the whole time and driving you around the country and so you don't have to deal with the TSA nightmare that they put you through every time you fly, which is another travesty of this whole thing.

But, like I said, we're with you all the way, looking forward to how God uses you in this next chapter and look forward to getting you back in a few weeks and get an update.

Rebecca Lavrenz

Sounds great Thanks.

Rick Green

That was Rebecca Lavrenz. We're out of time for today, folks. Thank you so much for listening. You can get that entire interview on my show, the Tavern, over at Patriot U. But thank you very much for listening to Wall Builders and for supporting Rebecca and supporting those who are being persecuted by the legal system right now. You've been listening to the Wall Builder Show, thank you.