In this episode, we talk with Sherri Langburt, the founder and CEO of BabbleBoxx, about the recent news regarding a potential TikTok ban in the United States. We discuss the impact this may have on the creator economy, brands, and advertisers, as well as the broader implications for the social media landscape. Sherri shares her insights into how brands and creators are responding to the potential ban and explores strategies for the diversification of content.
What We Discuss:
TikTok Ban: We discuss the recent legislation that could lead to a ban on TikTok unless it is sold within the next nine months.
Creator Reactions: Creators are generally calm about the potential ban, but some are considering diversifying their content across other platforms like YouTube Shorts, blogs, and email lists.
Brand Perspectives: Despite the potential ban, brands should continue to activate on TikTok as long as it remains functional and retains consumer attention.
The Importance of Diversification: Sherri emphasizes the importance of not relying solely on one platform. She mentions that successful long-term creators have diversified across multiple platforms and built their own email lists.
Other Social Media Platforms: Discussion on platforms that might be overlooked, like Pinterest and Facebook Groups. Sherri notes the potential of these platforms for community building and marketing.
Retail Media Networks: Sherri highlights the emerging trend of retail media networks where large retailers offer advertising and marketing opportunities. This could be a significant opportunity for brands and influencers.
In this episode, we talk with Sherri Langburt, the founder and CEO of BabbleBoxx, about the recent news regarding a potential TikTok ban in the United States. We discuss the impact this may have on the creator economy, brands, and advertisers, as well as the broader implications for the social media landscape. Sherri shares her insights into how brands and creators are responding to the potential ban and explores strategies for the diversification of content.
What We Discuss:
TikTok Ban: We discuss the recent legislation that could lead to a ban on TikTok unless it is sold within the next nine months.
Creator Reactions: Creators are generally calm about the potential ban, but some are considering diversifying their content across other platforms like YouTube Shorts, blogs, and email lists.
Brand Perspectives: Despite the potential ban, brands should continue to activate on TikTok as long as it remains functional and retains consumer attention.
The Importance of Diversification: Sherri emphasizes the importance of not relying solely on one platform. She mentions that successful long-term creators have diversified across multiple platforms and built their own email lists.
Other Social Media Platforms: Discussion on platforms that might be overlooked, like Pinterest and Facebook Groups. Sherri notes the potential of these platforms for community building and marketing.
Retail Media Networks: Sherri highlights the emerging trend of retail media networks where large retailers offer advertising and marketing opportunities. This could be a significant opportunity for brands and influencers.
Welcome back to the show. So today we cover some breaking news, which is basically the TikTok ban that came out, that President Biden signed last week. It was approved by both the House and the Senate and basically what it does is it gives TikTok, which is owned by ByteDance, a Chinese-owned entity. It gives them nine months to basically divest from the US subsidiary, so basically to sell off from its parent company that is China-based to sell it or they risk being shut down. This comes basically because of concern that Congress and our government in the United States has about what information the Chinese government is getting access to for the 170 million reported users of TikTok in the United States. And it's not saying that they want the app to go away completely. What they're saying is they do not want it owned and driven by the Chinese government. So that's kind of where this is coming from.
Speaker 1:
I have a great guest on with me today. I have Sherry Lambert, who is the CEO of BabbleBox, and she's really been a pioneer in the influencer marketing space since 2007. She just has such a strong understanding of how the social platforms work, what this all means for. If there is a ban on TikTok, what does it mean? She and I talk about what are the implications for not just you know people like you and I, maybe, who use the app, but also what it means for people like influencers, who've spent a lot of time and energy investing to find a following. One of the other things that I just want to mention is that the CEO of TikTok has basically said that they would rather shut down the app than sell it, and I think that is definitely promoting this theory, or promotes the theory that you know that the reason for the app to function in the US is potentially to get this information, which is what Congress is worried about. So it is going to be very interesting to see how this plays out.
Speaker 1:
We talk about the fact that you know this wouldn't be the first app to shut down. What are the implications for everyday people who use the app, as well as creators and influencers? We also talk about what we think, which apps we think or which social platforms we think brands may and companies may be not paying attention to as much as they should. If you are a Pinterest enthusiast or a Facebook group user, you will be interested in this conversation. I really enjoyed having Sherry on as a guest, because she does understand this space so well. So with that, I'm going to let you hear my conversation with Sherry Langbert, ceo of BabbleBox. Here we go, sherry welcome to the show.
Speaker 2:
Thank you so much. I'm so honored to be here.
Speaker 1:
Well, you and I have known each other for a bit not as long as we should have. We figured out we have all of these common connections. You've done BabbleBox, which is the company you founded, since 2007. Is that right?
Speaker 2:
Really, this division of it started in 2016. Okay, I've been an influencer in the space since 2007.
Speaker 1:
We've both been in the influencer space since 2007, which is like before it was called influencer Right. We have the same exact birth date, our towns are literally next door to each other and we never knew this. I had heard of Babblebox, I think you'd heard of she Speaks, but we had never met. And then we find out we have all of these common things. So it's so exciting to be able to do this show with you, because we've both been in this space so long. We know a thing or two about the creator economy and the influencer space. So thank you so much for joining me.
Speaker 1:
I want to start with something really timely, which is what happened this week, which is the TikTok ban.
Speaker 1:
So President Biden just signed a potential TikTok ban into law, and I say potential because TikTok has nine months, I believe, to sell and they get, I think, a possible three-month extension if they're in the middle of the sale, so they have a little bit longer, but if they don't sell, then they're going to be banned, and what that means is they're going to be banned from. You won't be able to find them on the App Store, you won't be able to find them in the US. So let's start with this because, of course, tiktok is like responding and they're using the platform to really rally the troops. They've got a lot of creators on the platform kind of jumping up and down about this. Their CEO said, after Biden signed the bill, that the China based ByteDance, which is the company that owns TikTok, which is the app we're talking about, he said that rest assured, we aren't going anywhere. The facts and the Constitution are on our side and we expect to prevail again. First of all, are you hearing about this from creators and your clients?
Speaker 2:
No, no one's talking. No, we had one or two clients write us about it. We've had a few creators. We've done a few sessions with creators talking about it, like what they should be doing, but it's not like everyone's frantic. I think people are just moving on, I think they're waiting and I think that they do feel that you know, if it goes through, it's going to have to be sold and if it's sold, they'll make it happen and it will still be there. I think we're seeing some people saying like, okay, like YouTube shorts, youtube shorts, or should I go back to focusing on my blog? Or I need to download all my emails to make sure? Like, start capturing people's emails, but no one's really like panicking. It's very common. No plans have been changed, nothing.
Speaker 1:
We're having a similar experience. If a brand does or somebody asks you should we still be investing in TikTok? Well, as long as the app is functional here in the US and you have consumer attention there, why wouldn't you still activate? Right, because it's all about where consumer attention is. The second, that there's no consumer attention in the US, let's say on TikTok, then you know, then you change your strategy. That's from the brand's perspective. But if you're a creator I think that's the question is do you just because poof, like your entire audience? Everything can be a big thing.
Speaker 2:
Well, that's a big thing because we've seen, you know, there was first the bloggers and then the, then it was Facebook and Twitter, now X and then Instagram and then some people dabble in YouTube. But TikTok is unique because you have all these people and they don't even know that they are creators. Suddenly they went viral and they've never even had a brand deal and they have all this attention on them and they don't even know what to do. So those are the people that don't even know what a blog even is. How do I even start that? They're not even on Instagram. A lot of them it's like this new found creative person that they could technically. A lot of them could just disappear. They just don't have the know-how or the interest or the.
Speaker 2:
It's much harder, I think, to do a long format video. I'm not taking anything away from TikTok. I think it has its merits. It's also a lot harder for a lot of people to figure out how to do a blog. So a lot of those other things I think are hard. The thing on the brand side I think to think about too is it's still really new and a lot of brands still didn't even get in there or they have other channels like oh well, we don't know. So I think that, yes, the obvious brands and the big brands, but even a lot of our big brand clients are like we haven't really scratched the surface with TikTok, I don't know, maybe they just stay that way.
Speaker 1:
You and I remember the days of Vine and, right, a lot of the creators, the influencers who started to be successful on Vine which was those, you remember those really short, for those who it was like a six or nine second video, like very, very short. So Vine went away, like they shut it down, right, it's like one day it was there and the next day it was gone. So a lot of the creators who built their following on Vine actually went over to Musically, which was the predecessor, which was the TikTok, before it was.
Speaker 2:
TikTok, but there was a blip in time because it didn't happen, right away.
Speaker 1:
Right, it did not happen right away. Musicalically, creators would tell us, or influencers would tell us, that it's so easy to create really cool content on the app. So it had this real potential, but it didn't really take off until it was renamed TikTok, and then the format changed. Going back to the point about Vine, you know that app was huge in the day, oh yeah, and then it went away and all of the influencers, creators who were on that app found another place to go At the time. You know, at the time they went to different platforms. A lot of those guys, though, eventually went to TikTok, musically, slash TikTok and built followings there. The probability is more likely that they'll just that. Eventually, tiktok will just divest and they'll have the app won't go away. So I guess, I guess the bottom line then is from from our perspective, no one's panicking.
Speaker 2:
Sorry, no one's panicking it. No one's panicking. It's like.
Speaker 1:
I think the creators are probably panicking a little bit, more so than the brands are at this point. But even the creators, I think, per our conversation, like they have lots of other opportunities. Maybe they don't see it yet, but they have lots of other opportunities. Obviously, the downside is they're gonna have to bring their, they're going to have to figure out how to build an audience now on the other platform that they switch over to.
Speaker 2:
And that's what we always tell people to not just be on one platform.
Speaker 1:
Right, diversify. Well, you know what it reminds me of a little bit, because you'll remember this from like this transition from everyone just having the long form blog with social to support the blog, but really all the social was driving to the blog posts. Right, that transition. Those people went from long form blog to having and having an email list, right, of everyone that was on their blog which technically they owned right, they can't just on their blog which technically they owned, right, they can't just shut down someone's blog because they own it. They all switched to Instagram, to the other platforms, and then what happens now? Like they started to see when Instagram started they are all still.
Speaker 2:
Those are the people that write us. Those are the people that are still like I'm still updating my blog every like, cause we've been doing it for so long. And there's a lot of people who say and think about like those people were on Twitter and Facebook. They were doing live streams on Facebook. Before. Live streams were like live shopping that existed like a hundred years ago with these, and they're like we don't want to do that again. I was on Facebook and they're like we don't want to do that again. I was on Facebook hawking products like 15 years ago. The only bloggers. They were doing it all. They were having virtual events, live streaming events, you name it.
Speaker 1:
A large influencer, somebody who had almost a million followers on TikTok the other day and they were talking about how they do live streaming and how a lot of people are doing live streaming and making a ton of money on TikTok selling and I was thinking to myself. The first thought I had was do you remember Facebook Lives, when people would go live to sell stuff on Facebook?
Speaker 2:
That Lula Roe brand. That was the documentary. They were all all the Stella and all those people, but all the influencers were. That's how they made a lot of money too.
Speaker 1:
Yes, that is exactly how they made like a lot of the money they were making. We're doing these lives and selling stuff and that's it's interesting now to see that on TikTok they're discovering lives and selling stuff on TikTok.
Speaker 2:
The original people don't want to do it. And like TikTok is pushing it. Like about a year and a half ago or two years ago, everyone was like live stream, live stream, and it never really hit. Like TikTok still is trying to push it but it hasn't hit and I don't know why it hasn't hit. But when we've pulled our influencers, you see a very interesting trend where the people who have blogs, who've been around for a long time, are like we're not going back to that. We did that back in the day. These people are late to the game.
Speaker 1:
You talk to creators today, and especially the younger creators like who have not been around for a while and they're going. Oh, I need to diversify to have other places, because they've not been through a cycle like this.
Speaker 2:
What is Silk Stack? What is Silk Stack? All these people sending an email. It's an email and they're monetizing it, and that's what we did how many years ago? So it's just. It comes back around and I think with social platforms, you never know what's going to happen. Yeah, if you own your email list. That's where it yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, well, and having a way to be in touch with people that is not contingent on your on the app, because that audience could be gone here today, gone tomorrow.
Speaker 1:
So it's so interesting to see, like, how a lot of this stuff is cyclical. Like how a lot of this stuff is cyclical. So let's talk a little bit about, if we can, the other platforms, because you and I have been around and seen some platforms come and go and we are seeing some of the other platforms that people are kind of sleeping on. Like Pinterest is a good example, and I know Pinterest is doing a lot of education now and a lot of activity to get advertisers to understand, like, how valuable the platform is, because people do go there with a mindset of buying, like a renovation to my kitchen, and I spent basically most of my time on Pinterest figuring out, okay, what do I like, what do I not like. When you're there, you're like, oh, I like the lights in that kitchen. I see there, oh, and they're shoppable, I can go buy them. Let's talk a little bit about some of the ones people are sleeping on, and which one do you think they're sleeping on?
Speaker 2:
Okay, so I'm going to say that I think I don't know how you market to this, but the most incredible thing that Facebook has is groups. No one else has groups. Yep, Well, again, as a marketer, it's very challenging because you can't have people posting groups right, Because then it looks they get kicked out by the admin. Yeah, but groups there's nowhere else Facebook.
Speaker 1:
Well, why couldn't you do, why couldn't you sponsor a group, this like get the approval of the admin? I mean, think about it as like sponsoring any other community, maybe, but has anyone done that? I've never seen that, I don't know, but I love the idea.
Speaker 2:
Let's do it. But I think, look, we look at our community and the groups of it. When you look, just let's forget our community Peloton group on Facebook. Now, yes, there's a lot of noise, but there's also you have a very dedicated affinity group to one thing. I'm in a kayaking groups. I'm in schnauzer groups. You know what I'm about. I'm a kayaker. You should be marketing to me. You know I'm a schnauzer, I was a schnauzer mom. I'm hoping to, you know, one day be another schnauzer mom. But those affinities are, you know, if you're a pet company that knows that schnauzer suffer from these types of things, how do you get in there? Yeah, I think Facebook's the only one that does groups. Yeah, interesting. And then the Pinterest is like I haven't turned on X cause it's just terrifying to me. And then I I kind of feel a little bit the same about some of the stuff I see on TikTok. So to me, pinterest is just sunshine.
Speaker 1:
Yes, it's much more positivity, right it's?
Speaker 2:
good Pinterest. We're just happy and it's happy and you, you're not seeing all this other seeing all this other negative stuff.
Speaker 1:
Yes, yeah, well, it's much more about showing your creativity in terms of, you know, whether it's recipe all of that stuff, if you're a brand and you're activating, trying to activate advertising marketing, however you're doing it, whether it's through paid or through influencers, or, however you're doing it, facebook groups definitely an interesting one to think about. Going to the admins of the groups and saying, hey, what about doing some sort of sponsorship and seeing if that's a possibility. We don't, you know, we'd have to kind of look into whether they would do it. And then, of course, we talked about Pinterest. So, two good ones. You know it's so interesting. I know you mentioned X slash Twitter, x, formerly known as Twitter. I remember too, back in the day, that was a big platform for brands in terms of activating influence.
Speaker 2:
Oh my God, we would go viral. You would get like 50 people from around the country tuning in to yes, a live stream before COVID in 2007. And you'd have, like I don't know, a hashtag. And then the hashtag would go viral because all these people started sharing it.
Speaker 1:
Yes, I mean, what were they called Twitter chats, twitter parties, and they would get such huge reach and it was like a back and forth conversation. So it was a live conversation, as you said. People could join in just using the hashtag, they could join into it, and but I agree with you that the platform has evolved so much that how people use it today, I don't think I've seen anything like that in a while and they're trying to do more of like spaces, like their own version of what Clubhouse I think the old, the app, the other app that was yeah, what happened to Clubhouse? I don't think I've heard anybody. I don't think I've heard anything about that. I don't even know if it still exists. I don't either, but it was huge. It's got like. I don't think I've heard anybody. I don't think I've heard anything about that?
Speaker 2:
I don't even know if it still exists?
Speaker 1:
I don't even know. But it was huge, it was the hugest thing for a while.
Speaker 2:
Maybe if TikTok gets banned, then Clubhouse will have a resurgence. Yeah, that's where we're going to all go. That's right. No, I don't know. I think you know, and I think it was a COVID thing. I think people were afraid of being furloughed, they wanted to hear other people, or they were furloughed, they were afraid of, like you know, not having jobs. Yep it was a good ground to speak and talk to other people.
Speaker 1:
I think the bottom line is, when you've been around the social media world, you realize that the apps are going to change. You know where people's attention is going to be, is going to change, and the question is just being able to stay on top of. If you're a brand, being able to make sure you know where consumer attention is and just going where there's consumer attention, integrating there. And if you're an influencer creator, it's a little bit more complicated because you feel like, okay, I've built up and brands too. Right, brands have built up a following on these platforms, but you know that's the other, that's the other.
Speaker 1:
Risk for a brand is like you've spent all this time and energy building, building up a following, and then the app could be here one day and not another, which is why you need that diversification. So let's kind of change, if we can, a little bit to. Since we've both been in this space a while, I would love to get your thoughts on the impact that social media has had on us as consumers. I know you and I were talking about how you know you went on a trip recently and you were basically being shown these spots that are like the Instagrammable spots that everyone goes to how do you think the social platforms are impacting something like how we travel?
Speaker 2:
I'm not even going to start with how we travel, because the thing that drives me crazy is everyone says TikTok made me buy it, and I don't think it's TikTok, it's influencers made you buy it. You're seeing someone. If influencers didn't exist, and whether an influencer has two followers or 200,000 or 2 million, right, if you didn't see that person posting a picture of you know page Arizona and horseshoe bend, you would never know that existed. Because TikTok, the platform, is not posting pictures of horseshoe bend, it's travel influencers who went there, discovered it, said look at how beautiful. No one went there five years ago and now, all of a sudden, it's like a hotspot.
Speaker 1:
You are just like raising such an important point, sherry. I think we tend to think about how the platform is the thing, but you're right, the platforms are nothing without the creators or the people on it. And the creators may not be like what they consider to be influencers, but they're people, the people on the app, who are putting out the content.
Speaker 2:
That's the value of the app, and so it. I think and yes, I agree with you, I don't think it's just creators, I think it could be anyone who just went to that location and said this pink wall in LA is beautiful and it's perfect because it pops out and so when you stand in front of it, it's a very good backdrop. That happened to us recently. It's that person. It's not Instagram or TikTok. It's the person who visually sought it out, and then other people said oh my God, where is that? I have to go take a picture there. Same thing, Like I ended up in some random part of Greece that no one goes to because I saw an influencer and I was like I need to go there.
Speaker 1:
Well, if you were to say, look in your crystal ball, what do you think is going to change and I don't think we could even say more than a year out, like I think we have to look at the next six to 12 months, because this industry changes so much so and so quickly. How do you think things like what do you think people should be on the lookout for in the next six?
Speaker 2:
to 12 months Retail media networks.
Speaker 1:
Oh interesting. Can you tell people what that is, if they're listening and they don't know?
Speaker 2:
All the big retailers are just killing it. So instead of going away, like we think they're all going away, they all have these online properties and a lot of the manufacturers and the vendors and suppliers are all in there, and I think that is super, super interesting to me is these retail media networks.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, let's. For those who are not familiar with this idea, let's give an example. So Walmart Walmart services 90% of US households every year, which blew me away when I read that and they obviously have stores that most people know and they have a website which most people probably know. But they built this thing probably about they took it in-house, I think about five years ago, and it's a basically an ability for all of the people who sell, all the companies that sell products at Walmart, whether it's in the stores or online.
Speaker 1:
They can buy media, basically by advertising and media through their this retail media network that they develop.
Speaker 2:
Probably like similar to programmatic networks, but the beauty is they're hitting their consumer anywhere. I think that these retailers are now entertainment houses. They've turned themselves without anyone thinking about it or looking at it. They're entertainment companies, yeah. They're digital media companies, yeah, and they're all doing it, I feel like every single retailer has it now.
Speaker 1:
Yep, Right, I mean, it's unbelievable and so okay. So you feel like that's where there's a lot of opportunity. Moving forward is on the retail media network side.
Speaker 2:
I also think with influencers, like what happens in retail, right, Like you think about, I think there's an opportunity to go backwards or the reverse way, like the influencers start online, but how do you leverage influencers to go real world? And I think that no one's really done a great job at that yet.
Speaker 1:
Having influencers do things in person.
Speaker 2:
So there's a discussion around a mall and the mall is empty and everyone's like what's going to happen to this mall? What's going to happen now, when you go to towns in the summer and there's pop-up shops or sometimes in New York there's pop-up shops Couldn't they host pop-up shops in these malls with influencers, like brand collabs, that, if it's limited, like a shop drop and you decorate it and it's in and out, you're not, you're not focused on rent and I don't want to say you have to have an influencer, but I think the the trend of going that way Interesting, so, in real life, basically taking these.
Speaker 1:
So being able to take opportunity like the fact that there's inventory, real estate in these malls, inventory available and bringing people into some in-person in real life experience yeah, I love that. Sherry, thank you so much for spending this time with me. I am so grateful. If people want to follow you and see all that you're doing, what is the best way for them to do that?
Speaker 2:
Babblebox. So it's Babblebox with two X's at the end and on a lot of the channels it's Babblebox official, Some it's just Babblebox, but yeah, that's the best way.
