Queerly Beloved

35. How to Be An Affirming Vendor, Not Just a Friendly One

• Anna Treimer • Episode 35

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You might get the sense that I'm a little passionate about this topic... because I am!
This episode is all about how all of us can do the things that will truly make folks from the lgbtqia+ community feel truly affirmed and celebrated on their day and throughout their entire client journey with you.

The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic

Queerly Beloved, I'm so glad you joined!
Please keep the community going by checking me out on instagram @wildlyconnectedphoto and come say hi! I'd love to hear from you! :)

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone)-1:

Hey, everyone. This is your host on a popping on here. Actually with a little bit of just kind of a note before we dive into the official episode. This episode was actually edited and all ready to go. And. I just wanted to make a quick note before it goes live. You would never guess that recording a podcast can be a little bit scary. And it's actually quite funny because. You know, since having the podcast, I've had conversations with folks who are like, oh, I can never do that. I'm so shy. Or, you know, this, that the other. And I'm like, yeah, it's not, I would not necessarily consider myself like the world's best public speaker. Nora's is how I show up in my everyday life. However, it does feel like a really cool format for, you know, sharing this kind of information and educating and whatnot. And. That's all ultimately why I do this is because I'm really passionate about us all learning and growing together. It's definitely not because I think that, you know, I have the world's best podcast voice or that you know, meant to be. On NPR or something, but. All that is to say yes, I do get very anxious. When my episodes come out it's kind of quite scary to put your words out into the universe like that. And so yes, yes, I do. Overthink and get anxious about things. I don't, I don't know what would give you that impression, but all that is to say I've really been thinking a lot about these topics. Both from last week's episode, which you'll hear me say that. In this actual episode, but what highly recommend you go back and listen to the previous episode about the difference. And being an LGBTQ friendly vendor versus being an LGBTQ affirming or celebratory vendor. Because that will give a lot more context to this week's episode and what I'm about to say. But that concept is one that I've been thinking about for a long time and have been so afraid to talk about, which is crazy. But I think that there are a lot of stereotypes that I see. Online on Tik TOK and whatever about the LGBTQ community. You know, wanting to cancel people or people saying that things are never enough for us or this, that, and the other. And so in that aspect, I've been worried about it and I've also been worried. Like, I feel like this is a topic that has made me want to like. Walk on eggshells, like tiptoe around people's feelings because. This podcast is not intended to be a negative space or. You know, I bring things up that will end up. Being really harmful. That's not the point of this podcast. And the point of this podcast is also. Not to bash on religion. Like that's not my job. However it is my job to. Point things out that are harmful and that need to change. And. I think, I honestly just have to have like a moment of bravery and saying that like, There are things that. That the Christian faith does that is harmful. And. I don't want to get on a soap box here. And I also don't need to tell you my whole life story here, but I was in the Christian faith for over 23 years. I was. Also a pastor's kid slash am a pastor's kid. And. Like, I, I have been in that and. That means that I probably, at some point even perpetuated some of that harm, even though. I knew pretty early on that I was gay. And so all of this is to say that the things I'm about to bring up. Well, not intended to be negative. Like I do understand that. There's a wide variety of people who listened to this. And my intention is like not too, too. To bash on a religion or anything like that. But to point out the things that are harmful And it's also just crazy that. We have to, as people in the community, like defend. Why we feel the way we do about certain things. Like for example, You know, without getting too specific and wanting to keep things general. About a month ago or so there. Was a post in a Facebook group that I am a part of where someone posted anonymously, basically saying if someone has Jesus lover or something to that effect in their bio, Is that code for being anti LGBTQ? The comments were wild. As you might guess. Just like absolute insanity coming out in those comments. Things that you would not guess or hope to see in 2024, but are still very much being said. And I remember. Seeing that. And like, knowing that I had such a strong reaction to that and to the comments people were saying, But I was like, I feel like I can't even articulate fully, like where that comes from or why I feel that way. And it's also just wild that like, we have to defend ourselves like that. But. I've been really sitting with that and sitting with the concepts of last week's episode and this week's episode. And just thinking a lot about them. And of course. Like being part of this community, like we don't have to defend ourselves like that, but I think. For the purpose of this podcast, it is helpful to educate people and why we come from that. And so, like I mentioned in last week's episode, I do want to be mindful that I have my own feelings around the Christian faith. As someone who has been burned a time and time again by people of that faith. Including my own family and people close to me. So I am trying to be mindful of that. However. In thinking about that, I was like, Hmm. Let me just go down a rabbit hole really quickly. And. Go visit. My old church's website, a K the place where. My dad is also a pastor at and just revisit their, their statement of faith and their policies. Just to see. What kind of words they use, because again, I believe that words matter. And looking at that. It was a rabbit hole indeed. And probably not the best for my mental health. To be revisiting what an evangelical church has to say about how I live my life. However they have this long three page document that was essentially you. Laying out how their congregations are supposed to respond to. Marriage between. You know, quote-unquote same-sex couples being legalized and how they were supposed to respond. If they ever got. If someone ever asked if they could get married. All of that good stuff. It's a whole long document. And at the very end of the document. Like the last sentence on this document is basically like a TLDR too long. Didn't read. They say. In some. The EFCA is welcoming, but not affirming. And I think when I read that, I was like, Yes. I think that is exactly why. I feel so strongly about this and why many people in the community feel so strongly about this kind of thing. And I think that it's like, it's. It's so hard to fight with people about. This concept, right? It's something that I do all of the time with people from my past who say that they quote unquote, love me, but don't accept me. Like. I'm rambling at this point, trying to stay on track here. But I think the point is. In that sentence, which if you're ever interested in seeing that document, feel free to let me know, happy to share it. I think they are saying exactly. What this conversation is about. Like, they are pretty much verbatim saying, yes, we will be friendly to you. We will welcome you because like I said, last week, I think those words can sometimes be. Interchangeable, unfortunately. They're quite literally saying like, yeah, come on. We'll be friendly to you. But at the end of the day, we do not support you. And we do want you to change your ways. And I think. Just like seeing that while it wasn't like fun to like re-experience that it did affirm me. Yes, it did affirm me in my feelings. Of like this whole topic, because. I think it really comes back to like trust and, and like knowing someone's intentions. So for me, like seeing the word friendly, I'm like, That just leaves so many questions for me in my brain. Like. Friendly. It doesn't actually mean anything. Like you could be nice to me and still be thinking so many things about my life and who I am and who I love. Whereas affirming, like you are taking a stance, like there is no gray area. It's very like cut and dry where you stand and like, That's that's why I am starting to feel so much more passionate about this conversation. Because for something so special, like a wedding day where you're literally being vulnerable all day long, like. Sharing your love having that intense experience with your partner and your people. Like you deserve to feel that there are no questions. Like people deserve to feel that on their wedding day, they don't deserve to have these ruminating questions and their brain as to. Yeah, they're being nice to me, but is there anything else? Is there anything else under the surface that may not be coming up in this exact moment, but like, I don't want to be questioning that or feeling that. On my wedding day or ever really, but. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Really trying to get off my soap box here, but. I just think this is so important and I do feel strongly about this and yes, I'm sure that I feel more strongly about this given my past and my own past personal experiences. And again, like, It is not my job to. Bash religions or any of that? It is my job though, to say that that kind of thinking is harmful. Like I have experienced that those direct. Like that direct sentence has had an impact on my life. And I know for a fact that it's had an impact on other people's lives where they think. That they aren't a safe space only to find out that that people want them to change and hope they change. So. That is also. I feel like I've just needed so many disclaimers. I'm sorry, but I just, I'm also not here to say that if you are a part of a particular faith group, That things are a blanket statement. That's not my job or my desire, but. Like that needs to change like that kind of language needs to go away. And again, why we'll never be like, oh, if someone has LGBTQ friendly their bio or on their website, like. I'm sure that they are great and lovely humans. But I know that there are so many of us that like want to go above and beyond. We want to make those safe spaces. And we want to make sure that people don't have any question in their mind about if they can show up as themselves. And so. That's why this conversation is so important. For those of you who truly like value being a safe space. Like. These words do matter. And. I'm just so thankful for everybody who is taking the time to listen to these and making those adjustments and. Yeah, hoping that the rest of this episode now serves its purpose and maybe giving a little bit more direction as to how you can truly show up as someone who wants to be affirming and not just friendly. So. This is a really, really, really long intro. And I am sorry, but. When I feel strongly about something and when I feel passionate and when I want things to change for the better. This is just what you get. So, Thank you for listening. The episode is not done. It's just beginning. So keep tuning in.

Microphone (Yeti Stereo Microphone):

I love it. Welcome back. I hope you all are having an amazing morning day evening whenever you're tuning in. It's Ana, your host and owner. Oh, while they connected photography. And I'm so excited to gather with you all here today with all my fellow gays amaze, and also with the amazing network of allies and vendors who tune in. You all are so amazing and I'm so grateful that you're here and choose to spend some of your day with me. So. Speaking of being amazing, it would be so amazing. If you could help me expand this podcast. Something I'd really love to do this year is to expand the reach of the podcast. Not to be famous or anything. Cause you know, I already am a little bit famous. Just kidding. I'm not, but. It's, it's not for that purpose. It's for the purpose of, I'd really love for this podcast to just find the right people, whether it's couples that are looking for. This kind of support and community, or whether it's to reach. Other vendors and allies who are looking to be better and to grow and just don't know quite how so. A couple of ways that you can do that. Is by one sharing this episode or another episode to your Instagram stories. Or sharing it with a friend that you think might like this show. And the other way is by leaving review, which is not just because I want to see the reviews, but because. Every platform will push any podcasts that has more positive rating reviews on there. And so. For a Spotify it's super easy. It'll literally take you like 10 seconds. Because it's just star, star reviews, not like words. So if you go to the show and then you click on the three little dots on like the upper right-hand corner, then there's something that says right. Show. And then you can just give it. Quick little five-star review. And then for apple podcasts. You can actually go on the app and then write up a little sentence or two. So. If you have like 30 seconds to do that right now, I would appreciate that so much so that we can keep connecting with other people. But. Enough of that. I will say that if you have not listened to. Last week's episode. I would definitely recommend doing that before listening to this one, just because I feel that. It will give a little bit more context to what we're discussing today. And. I was also just a fun episode, so highly recommend going and listening to episode 34. But the Joseph, it was, we essentially talked about the difference between being LGBTQ friendly versus someone who affirms and celebrates LGBTQ love. And so for this week's episode, I really just wanted to dive further into what it actually means to affirm LGBTQ love and some practical ways to do that and how to show up. And I also wanted to know that this will primarily operate under the assumption that if you're listening. You're likely not in the community or honestly, maybe you are. And maybe you're a little bit like me and either. Came out a little bit later or. You have to unlearn some things when it comes to your own queerness and the queer community, just based on how you were raised and if that's you welcome, I'm so happy that you're here. So let's just start with a little refresher here last week. I read the definition of what. Affirm is, which is to state as a fact. And to assert strongly and publicly. And it is also. To offer someone emotional support or encouragement. So that's the definition of affirm that we're working. With and. I think. That in itself. Is is very bold. And like, if you are, if you want to be one of those people that say that you affirm queer love, like it's a, it's a bold action. It's a bold statement. Especially if you say that you also. Celebrate queer love that. It's. That act of celebrating as an active rebellion almost. And. I think it just really shows where you're at. It shows like where, where and what, and who you stand for. And it's really like a mindset to be in. It's not really. Just being friendly. But it's, it's showing the world. Who you are and what you support. And it's also like letting people know that you're ready to stand up for the community and out for the couples you serve. So I feel like more or less. You know, what, when thinking about it, like saying that you affirm queer love is kind of really another way to say that you are showing active allyship. And I know everybody kind of has their own feelings about being an ally and all of that, but I think. But I think to saying like active allyship. Is kind of also that next step above, you're not just like, quote unquote being an ally. But you're, you're actively showing up. You're showing active allyship. I think. I think that's really. Kind of another way to say that you affirm queer love. And so what does that mean really? Like, what does it mean to be active? And what does it mean for you to say that you affirm queer love? And how, how will, you know, essentially that you are ready to put that on your website, put that on your portfolio, you feel mentally like you're in this place and like, you're ready to show up in this way. And so I wanted to kind of cover a few just like base level themes. First, the aren't necessarily wanting specific just because I felt that it was important. To know that. You have worked through some things before getting into the specifics of, of wedding stuff. And so first I just want to say. If you grew up learning. Bad things about LGBTQ folks and the queer community, which. I think many people have, even if you weren't in a hyper religious. Community growing up. I think there was still things in media and. You know, things tossed around at school and whatever that. And still is. In a lot of places. And so. Even if you grew up in a very liberal household or whatever it may be. I think that we all probably have things to work through. And I also don't think that it's like an overnight process, right. Where you. Read a book or watch a movie. And suddenly you feel that everything's, you worked through everything. I think that in a, in a lot of way, that in a lot of ways, this is a lifelong process. Because I think, you know, also the community is growing and changing all the time too. And. And asking for different things. So in that aspect, We should be lifelong learners. But just kind of generally speaking, like. Have you taken the time to work through any like negative biases that you may not even realize that you have. And I'd also really like to say. I know everyone listening here is super, super cool and amazing. But just to clarify, like, This learning and something that I would hope you would primarily do through like reading books and Googling and learning things online. Doing those kinds of things. And maybe you do have a really close, trusted friend or family member that is a part of the community. That you can approach, and it really makes sure that. It's something that they have mental capacity for before. Like, Just bombarding them with questions. And yeah, I guess I just don't want you to like start talking to. A random person from the community or a random. Online chat or something and put the burden on others. I would guess that most of you here wouldn't do that, but you know, Couldn't publish this episode without just checking in on that. And Yeah, I think we all have things to work through. So I just encourage you. If you want to be an affirming vendor. To just check in with yourself and see if there are any of those things that you still need to unlearn and work through. And on the second thing is. Have you actually spent time with people in the community, right? Like for me personally, I think I would not only would I feel a little bit odd if I was like hiring someone that. Was pretty much like, yeah, I've never really met a gay person. But I think that will also show up in their vibes and how they carry themselves too. Right. If they've never spent time with people from the community, And the first time is when they're working with you for your engagement photos of your wedding or. And whatever it might be like, I think you're going to feel that unfortunately, And yeah. I don't think. The point here is like, you need to go out and like make a bunch of new gay best friends. It's just like. You know, have you talked to one at your local coffee shop? Have you gone to your local pride as an ally? Have you gone to other like. Queer organized events or, you know, things like that. I think it's just really good to. Be in those spaces to see what things like bring joy to the community and, and what those community spaces are like. Of course in like, Good and healthy ways, not ways that feel like you're intruding on their space or anything like that. But. Basically, I'm just saying like, Your first time really interacting with, with a queer person. If you want to be like a truly affirming bender probably should not be like on their wedding day. And on that note, it's something I've said many times on the podcast and we'll continue to say, but. If you need to practice with a couple, like. Again, please do that. And do it in safe and healthy ways, making sure that. You're approaching this with couples in a respectful manner. And. And being honest and letting them know that. You really want to learn and you want to learn from them. And you know, also not trying to make them like a token gay couple, but that you're just. Excited to learn and want to do so. So. I really think that is a big thing of being an affirming vendor is just like making sure that it's something that you can actually reflect a couples. And so doing whatever I need to do to make that happen is going to be huge. And I would say like, with all of these things, Both these base level things and the things that apply to weddings and specific. Just make sure that these things are applying to all areas of your life. Right? I think. It could be easy to say that you do these things and anything that is public facing and things that people can see in your business. And then to not necessarily apply the same mentality to think in other things in your life. And so I just really want to encourage you to make sure that it does apply to all areas of your life. Even the things that are behind the scenes. So, for example, you know, are you supporting queer on businesses? Are you voting in a way that supports the community? Are you watching and supporting queer owned content and you know, sharing those kinds of content, things like that. Is, I think that's really important for your mindset too, right? But this doesn't just apply to wedding days and it doesn't just apply. To the parts of your business that are public facing. Like it applies to your everyday life. And I think that's just like a really important. Mentality to be in. And I think that's something that people can see and can feel, and we'll make them feel a lot of trust towards you as well. So now that we've talked about kind of some base level things that I think it's important for everybody to do. I want to talk about some wedding day things in. Particular. I think part of being affirming means. Asking the right questions. Which means that on top of like using gender neutral language and pronouns and some of those green flags on your website, I think it's really important to. Ask the right kinds of questions. And here's what I mean by that. Do you feel supported on your wedding day? Which I know. Can be a tough thing. Like it's tough for me to ask couples that at times, But like asking those tough questions will be really, really insightful to know more of the couple's story and more of their journey. And it also opens up the question for you to be like, Hey, is there something that I can do? As a vendor to make you feel more supported on your wedding day. So I think that asking if there's ways that you can support. And just like in general, asking what they would like from you on their wedding day is going to be so helpful. And so insightful. And not only will it make the couple feel really, really comfortable around you and that they can trust you, but I think it will. Also enhance your experience going into the wedding because you feel prepared to support them. Like, you know what they want. And your have had time to like, get ready for that and be ready to show up. And yeah, I just really encourage you to like, continue to ask that and continue to leave space for the couple. To answer because. Leaving space, you know, it might even open up a conversation like. The couple might be like, Hey, you know, we know this XYZ poses, like really common on wedding days, but like, we don't want to do that because it doesn't feel authentic or. It doesn't. Feel like a good representation of my gender expression or whatever it might be like. That's really, really important, like leaving space for that and knowing that couples can share that with you is going to be huge. So you are asking questions. And then ask lots of questions about the couple and their story. I think that's a really, really great way to make couples feel seen. To know, like it will make them feel that, that you really care and that you want to get to know them. But I also just encourage you to make sure that those questions are like, Good and healthy and normal questions and not, you know, Not that I think anyone here would do this, but like, I'm, I'm just thinking questions along the line of like, oh, when did you decide to be gay or. Are either of you, the man in the relationship, you know, things like that, which again, I would guess a lot of us are much past that, but. Just for the sake of an example. Please don't be asking those kinds of questions, right? Like just, just try to get to know the couple. And I think in asking those kinds of. Maybe more general questions. They will reveal a lot more about their own unique love story and their own. Maybe even their own unique. Gender expressions or whatever it may be. So. Ask questions. But make sure they're not weird, basically is the moral of the story. This one I think is so important. But I think again, if you are someone that wants to go above and beyond. To truly say that you have. To truly say that you affirm queer love. I think. Part of that is being ready to really stand up for your couples. Right? I think that's another differentiating factor in being friendly versus affirming. Because. If you say you're affirming, like you're saying, this is what I stand for and I will stand up. With you and for you. And so I think that look back. Really look. Different, depending on what your role is. And. What the couple's situation is, but something that comes to mind is even just like. Being ready. And offering to do vendor research for them, or even to reach out to vendors on their behalf so that they are not constantly having to put themselves on their love on the line. That is super helpful. And another thing. That comes to mind. Is even things like if you're taking a couple out in the world to do engagement photos one. Like, are you aware of where you're headed and have you done any research just in terms of the queer friendliness of the area? And two. Just like keeping an eye on, you know, what's happening, what your surroundings are. Are people staring or are they saying weird things? And, and, and all of this, I'm not really ever picturing something. Super violent happening, although that could happen. But. Seeing people who give you weird and growth slopes and staring at you and making comments like. That's just as hurtful. And I think that it's your role as an affirming vendor to just like, keep an eye on that. And be ready to have a backup plan. If you all need to like, remove yourself from the area or. You ready to ask someone else to leave? Those kinds of things. So I think like being that person and letting your couple know that like you're writing to do what needs to be done, if that happens. Is huge and amazing. And maybe just ask yourself that question too. Like, are you prepared to do those things? I think that can apply to like the wedding days too. Right? Like if you are hearing comments being made like. Are there ways that you can divert that or. If it's coming from another vendor, can you speak to that vendor and ask them to not do that? You know, there's just, there's so many ways that you can stand up for your couple that I think are so important and you can really, really make an impact on how. Couple's experience is with their photos with third day. Yeah. I think something else too is letting your couple know. That if, especially if you're actually there on during their wedding day, like just saying something like, Hey, like if you need me to kind of be a middle person or to come ask you for. Your opinion on the tables or, Hey, I need you for a quick photo, like coming up with some kind of code so that the couple can have space. If it's starting to be. A little bit overwhelming or they're starting to feel. You know, I'm just overwhelmed by like, maybe this is a lot of people's first queer wedding and it's just so lot or whatever the case might be. I think just letting them know that you can be that. Create that safe space. If need be. And I think too. This is always such an interesting one for me to talk about. But I think it's important for you to find that really unique balance between like, Showing the couple, how hyped and excited you are for them. And. Like how ready you are for them to celebrate and how stoked you are. Without making them feel other, right? Like you want them to know that you're so excited. You're so excited to support. They're kind of love and how far they've come and what they've had to go through, but also. Just like, don't take it to a point that will start to make them feel like they are othered or. Weird almost, you know, I think, I think you can pretty easily find that balance, but I just want to point it out, like hype them up, make them feel like that. Like. You're just so excited for them, but just be mindful that it's in a way that still feels good and normal. So, those are just a few ideas because really at the end of the day, I'm like so many things on my podcast. And within the queer community. Those are guidelines, but it's so unique to every couple, because I think. What is going to feel affirming and safe for one couple might be totally different for the next couple over. And I think the biggest thing is, is just making sure that you are doing your job of expressing that you want them to feel safe and seen. And then asking questions and continuing to leave space for them to let you know how, how you can do that. I think. I think all of the guidelines I mentioned earlier. Can generally be applied to most couples. But it's also going to change so much from wanting to wedding and couple to couple. And so I really encourage you. To do your job. I'm stepping up, letting them know, like you want to affirm them. You want to support them. You want to stand up for them. And then step back and let them, let them express what their needs are as well. And I think that's going to work. So well, On both sides so that they can feel supported and you know exactly what your role is in that. So, Thank you so, so much for tuning in and thank you for all of you who are sharing this podcast and sharing reviews. Means the absolute world to me. And. Even just thinking about those of you who are listening to this and taking time to figure out how you can do this in your own business. Like. I don't know, it just gives me like butterflies on the inside to know that we are all working to make the wedding industry a better place. So. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I am so grateful for all of you and please be sure to tune into the next episode, which will be another one of our amazing queer love stories. Clearly beloved have an amazing day.