00:17 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
Everyone, I'm Ruth Havsepian, and this is the Out of the Darkness show. Have you ever caught yourself wondering and thinking what is the point of prayer? Well, I have a guest on today. Her name is Julie Sonny and we are talking about the power of prayer. There are many times we feel powerless in our lives, especially when we face difficult circumstances. On our own, we can do nothing, and the scripture confirms this. In John, chapter 15, verse 5, jesus says apart from me, you can do nothing, and we recognize the need of God's power. This is the same power by which God created the heavens and the earth. It's the same power that parted the sea for Moses and that Jesus used to heal the sick and cast out demons. It was that power that raised Christ from the dead and brought a baptism of fire on the first Christians. Welcome.
01:23 - Julie Sunne (Host)
Julie. Thank you, Ruth. It's so nice to be here with you and your listeners.
01:28 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
What's the point of prayer? What is prayer to you?
01:36 - Julie Sunne (Host)
I think, boiled down, prayer is essence, to me at least, is simply a conversation, is simply a conversation and, in a sense, a surrender. It's a conversation with the Lord, surrendering my knowledge, my understanding, my power to him, knowing that he knows it all and he is above it all, but yet he's also intimate with me and caring for me and wanting the best in my life, whatever that looks like.
02:14 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
I know that people have questioned me sometimes and say one of the questions I get is what is the point of praying? I don't understand it. There's. What is the relevance? Well, first of all, I really want to clarify what prayer is, and for me, the primary reason is to to really develop this relationship with God, and everything else will come into place, whether we are praying for a need, we're praying for a loved one, whatever we're praying, for.
02:49
But unless we have a relationship this is how I have come to understand prayer in my life If I'm developing a relationship with someone, I need to speak with them, I need to get to know them, they need to have to get to know me. Now I'm not saying that God doesn't know us, but we are humans and we need to build that relationship and that connection. And I believe that through prayer. That is when we understand and hear the Holy Spirit speak to us and direct us. And unless we have that, how can we question the power and the point of prayer?
03:33 - Julie Sunne (Host)
Yeah, we're really floating out there, I think, if we aren't communing with the Creator. If we're not, it's a way, like you said, it's a way to know Him and to reveal our hearts to Him. Now, you're right, he knows exactly what we think, but I think we need it because we need to be able to express that to Him. And it's so important for us to know that the Lord is approachable, he's attentive, he's caring, and if we want to know him more, just like you said, in a relationship, how can we get to know someone if we aren't communicating with them?
04:17
The communing is such an important aspect and it's so important for directing our hearts and positioning our hearts to receive what the Lord gives, because so much of this life as you well know, I'm sure Ruth isn't easy and there's a lot of tears and there's a lot of brokenness and there's a lot of questions and whys, and I've questioned the Lord so many times in my life life and I've had to come to a place where I turn to him first and know that he is above it all, but he's also with me and so, just like a friend, when they're there with me, I can sit there and chat with them, or now we can pick up the phone or text or whatever we need to With the Lord. He's there all the time, but we often don't sense him, and I think prayer is an essential part of a Christian's life in order to acknowledge in faith what we don't see in sight, to surrender that to him in faith. Just because I can't see you, lord, I know you're there.
05:27 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
And we need to take examples from Jesus and I think it says at the end of the day he spoke, and then he, he went away and he prayed.
05:37
Why did he pray? Why was he praying? He didn't have to pray. If we believe in the triune God, you know God the Father, god the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn't have to pray, but I believe that this was a way of setting an example for us as well. And he was in human form at that time and he was praying to his heavenly father. And I think that, if for nothing, if we are to take the examples that are set before us by Jesus, then that is where we see this. And he did that. Over and over it says he left, he went, he prayed, all night sometimes.
06:23
All night.
06:24 - Julie Sunne (Host)
Yes, yes.
06:25 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
And so there is something powerful about it that you know at the after an exhausting day and I cannot imagine that those days were anything but exhausting. You know all of all of the emotions and I know this is just my interpretation of it. And but you know when, when I read the, the, the ministry that Jesus had on this earth, I can only imagine the end of the day, the exhaustion, the tiredness, walking from one place to another, people bombarding him with questions and wanting to be healed. And what did he do? He didn't go off and sleep, he didn't go off on a vacation. He re-energized and he drew strength by going and praying and and developing and I always liken prayer to muscle memory the the more we pray and the closer we get to our heavenly father. We do that instinctively, rather than going into our own thoughts and wondering how we you know I, ruth can solve an issue or do something. I will instinctively go to prayer, and this is what the power of prayer is to me.
08:02 - Julie Sunne (Host)
Yeah, it's like a faith workout. I like that. A faith workout? Yeah, yeah, we do need to, because we are, you know, god created us as such complex beings with so many emotions and thoughts and drives, you know, passions, and we tend to rely on ourselves, and that's partly because we're created in his image. You know, we have been given that in our beings to be able to have some power and have some strength, but it's no match for what we deal with in this broken world. And so we have to practice those faith muscles, that faith workout, to really um, to tap into the source of our strength, because, apart we, we can't do it, we can't. I've tried, trust me, I've tried, um, and it just doesn't work. And so I I love the imagery of Jesus going in prayer, as you said, exhausted, and I think my mind was going to the garden.
09:10
And that last, you know, those last hours of his freedom, I guess you would say he prayed so hard, he was under such distress that he was you know he was exuding, blood was coming out. You know he was, he was so stressed, but he didn't, he didn't, like you said, he didn't try to run away and go on a vacation and try to ease. But he prayed, he. He sought the last few hours he had. He sought the time with the Lord, with his father. He sought that connection to commune with him. And how critical that was. If that was important and critical to Jesus and his most trying times, how much more important is it for us to do that, to go to him in prayer, to seek the strength to do what we know we're supposed to be doing but can't seem to quite do it. Or to accept what we don't want to accept, but what's coming our way, what the Lord is allowing in our lives.
10:17
So many times I've pushed back on what the Lord was allowing in my life. I didn't want it. I didn't want to lose the babies I lost. I didn't want to have a child with disability. But that's the cross that I'm asked to bear. And in order for me to accept that, I need to surrender myself in prayer to the Lord and ask for his strength to do it. He's going to provide the grace. He's promised that he will be there and he will give us the grace for that next minute, not for next week. You know that's important for us to remember. But we have to continue to exercise that connection with him so that we can tap into his strength and his knowledge and his grace to accept those crosses and to carry them.
11:11 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
The other question that comes up quite often is why do I need to pray if God is all-knowing and he knows my needs? And you mentioned, you know, the loss of children and that that's that's a hard one. You know I I mentor a young woman and it's a difficult time to overcome the loss in in our, in my own family. My daughter gave birth to a stillborn days after her due date and that was hard. I cannot imagine my daughter's thoughts and emotions Because you know, I was the grandmother and I was praying for both my children, my son-in-law and my daughter, and this precious, precious little girl that never made it into our arms alive.
12:22
It was the power of our faith that I saw carry my children through that difficult time and as parents, his parents and I came together and prayed through the night, part of the early morning hours, as the two of them were in the hospital, and I cannot imagine dealing with something so hard is not the word good enough to describe it? Just ripping your heart apart to have dealt with it without prayer, without that fellowship that I had with my son-in-law's parents that morning praying. We all were feeling those emotions differently, but through prayer we were one and I saw that with my son-in-law, my daughter, as they have prayed and walked through that difficult time. And people have said to them, but how? And I had one young woman say I don't know how I would have dealt with that I do not have the faith that Alexis has.
13:49
And that made me so sad, because I don't know about you, julie. I want everyone to know this amazing, amazing gift that has been given to us, this relationship that we can build.
14:09 - Julie Sunne (Host)
Yeah, you know, that brings up a really interesting point about the Lord and about prayer and about our individual crosses we bear. If you think you are really suffering, go to a trauma hospital or go to a university that does the educational medicine. My daughter, we used to have to take her down to the University of Iowa for follow-up checkups for a cleft palate that she had, which ended up being incredibly minor. It was big to us but it was minor when you see the people and the suffering that goes on there. The Lord either allows or ordains certain things in our lives based on stuff that we don't know. You know the mysteries of the Lord. We don't understand why he allows certain things for certain people. But the really interesting thing is, if we continue to go to the Lord in prayer, if we continue to exercise our faith and grow in our ability to trust him, it's interesting how he will uniquely give or allow these things in our lives in a unique basis. He knows what I need and can handle and what you need and can handle and what you need and can handle. And, as we, I think a lot about praying in accordance with his will. The more we pray, the more I think we, our thoughts, our desires become in accordance with his will because we're more in tuned, just like a relationship with another person. We start to know that person so well that we kind of think like them or know what they need before they need it. And I think prayer works a little bit like that in a way as well with us, with the Lord, because we start to know him on a much deeper level and a much greater level. Now he already knows us to. I mean, he formed us, you know, in the womb. He knows our thoughts, he knows everything. So prayer is more for us than it is for the Lord, not that it isn't an important thing. You know he commands that we pray, he tells us we need to be praying, he gives us a format to pray in the Lord's Prayer. So it's incredibly important from his standpoint too. It blesses him and glorifies him when we do pray.
16:46
And it also it's such a mystery that you know I know there's a lot of debate out there Does it change what the Lord might do? You know there's a lot of debate out there. Does does it change what the lord might do? You know there's a lot of debate about that and I am not gonna stand here and tell you one way or the other. That's not. That's not what I'm here to do.
17:04
But but when you think about abraham and the dialogue abraham had with the lord when it came to destroying um the, was it sodom and gomorrah, and he was the lord was gonna destroy them, and heorrah, and he was the Lord, was going to destroy them, and he's like, but there's yeah, he bartered with God, yeah, and and that that I always found that interesting. It's like I don't know so much that the Lord changed his mind as that um Abraham was beginning to conform his will to the Lord's will and to see that the Lord is righteous in what he was doing, because there wasn't even that many people and the Lord knew it all along. You know and I think that's such an important part of prayer that we often miss is we begin to reflect the Lord more. That's one of the ways we begin to reflect the Lord more, and that's what the Christian life is about is becoming more and more like Christ-like. And as we dialogue with the Lord in our prayers, we do become more like that, more like him, and the whys become maybe less important in our lives as we start to understand who God is and that and start to just think a little bit more like him, the whys become less important they have in my life.
18:28
At first, it was essential. I wanted to know the whys and I wanted a roadmap. Honestly, when my daughter, when things started to roll out with our daughter's disability and it was a slow process to understand what her disability was going to end up being, whether it was a lifelong or whatever it was and I wanted a roadmap and I still want a roadmap we still don't have one. She's going to be 26 here soon and we still don't know what she has, for that matter, what the syndrome is or what that might mean for 30 years down the line 20 years down the road.
19:03
We don't know. And that was so important to me, Ruth. It was like I wanted the why. Why did this happen in my life? Why are you allowing? Why did you take five babies home before I could see them? Why am I having a child with disabilities who will never be able to live alone?
19:21
And it started with my oldest son. Why does he have an arm that is not fully functioning? He could be doing so much and he loves you so much, and he could do so much with an arm that works like everybody else's, you know, and is as strong as everybody else's. But those whys would they really satisfy me? I've had to think hard about that. Is a why going to make a difference when you know I'm tucking my daughter in at night or changing her pull-up again, or, you know, is the why really going to matter? Am I going to do anything different? Matter? Am I going to do anything different? Instead, it's become more important that I know who is in charge and who is going to be there in the future when I can't be. Those have become the essential things to me, and, as I pray, the Lord continues to assure me that he's the one he opens my mind to see him in that capacity that I can't fulfill because I can't be here forever.
20:21 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
I think that as we mature in our faith and we mature in our prayer life and in our relationship with God, the wise should be short lived. I think we're human. We will say why, lord, why this why? But if we are in that, that relationship, if we are having a prayer life, the why will be short lived.
20:46
Yes, and I think that is what we are missing out that when I started my journey to sobriety, there was a lot of whys, why and why this, why that? And then you know, as I got to the other side of sobriety again, oh Lord, why did I do this? And there was that. But as my prayer life developed and as my relationship developed, the whys were insignificant, they became not so important. It was what now, lord? What can I do? Well, I'm here now and this is what I'm doing. I took all my whys and I turned them to what can I do for you, lord? How can I serve you with what I did in the past? Is there a way that I can pull other people out of that darkness and bring them into this amazing life that we experience? And when I say amazing, I don't want people to think that we have no worries, no stresses that everything is hunky dory, by no means.
22:15
But as you said, we know, our relationship with our Heavenly Father is where we find that comfort.
22:25 - Julie Sunne (Host)
Yeah, yeah, and it really it's sort of like looking, I think as we mature in our faith, we look back on those things and we see that the Lord was working in those as well. So the whole why's we ask about the past? They start as we continue to commune with the Lord and we grow in our faith and he reveals more of himself to us. We start to look at those things as not a bump in the road or a detour, but as the story that allows us to be the people we are and to have the faith that we are. I would not be here talking to you, ruth, if it was not for my daughter and her disabilities. I would not my faith, I would have been such a selfish person. I look back on who I was back then and I'm so grateful, not for the sorrow and the hardships, although that's what created the faith in me.
23:28 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
You know, that's what he really used.
23:30 - Julie Sunne (Host)
So I wouldn't want to relive that. I don't want other people to have to go through those things, although we know we will. I don't want other people to have to go through those things, although we know we will, but it's such a beautiful tapestry that comes together and you can just see how the Lord has woven. My journey started with a miscarriage that was just devastating to me, that really put into question everything I thought about God and really had me wrestle with who he was. And it was a long, long journey and I think it took all he allowed in my life all of the miscarriages and the disabilities within different family members, and then, of course, my daughter, who continues to need the care. It took all of that in order to really form me into the vessel he wants me to be and the person he wants me to be.
24:24
It's like the Bible says you know about the potter, he is the potter and he knows what vessel he wants each of us to look like and how he wants to use each of us, and he'll use the things he allows the things in our lives to be, that pressure and the hands that form us. It's almost like when you think of the sovereignty of God incorporated in all of his other attributes. It's like he is that you could just see his hands on there on the vessel that we are, the vase or the pot or whatever we're forming, the cup, and he's all of those things in our lives, all those stresses. He's just pushing those. Those are the hands that are just molding us into the useful vessel, pot, whatever that we are to him now and it's just a beautiful picture and he's not doing it to hurt us. I love Johnny Erickson. Tata, I'm not sure you're familiar with her but I love her quote.
25:34
I keep going back and back to this one. You know the Lord allows what he hates to accomplish what he loves. The Lord, you know you can't tell me the father wanted Jesus, his son, to have to suffer what he went through. He did it for us, he did it to accomplish our salvation because he loved us so much. He's not allowing us to go through these hard things because he wants to hurt us. He's using he hates them too. He's using those things to make us into a more clear picture of him, because he loves us so much and he knows what we need and we need to have that faith.
26:16 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
And it's interesting because we either believe that we have the freedom to make our choices in life or we don't. Because my questioning when I say but why, lord, why am I going through this? I'm questioning why isn't he stepping in, step in, do?
26:36
what you need to do so. That means that I don't have the freedom to choose whether I will obey him or not, right? Because when I disobey him, the chances are that things will not go the way that they should be going, and I know that in my own life. I want to mature as a believer. I don't want to be drinking, you know, the milk for the rest of my life. I want to be strong. I want to be able to help others, but unless I use the energy to do that, rather than the energy to constantly say why is this happening to me? Why did this happen to so and so? Why is the world in such a mess? Well, we know why the world is in a mess, because it's a world filled with sin.
27:34
It's from the moment of the first sin that was committed to now. That is the result of it. We, as a believer and you know we're talking to you know these are answers more for believers than unbelievers, because an unbeliever, when they question, it's because they haven't experienced the transformative power of walking to the foot of the cross and being washed in that blood. So I don't ever say but why are you questioning Christ? Because they don't know.
28:10
But on the other hand, as a believer who confesses their faith, we need to grow. We need to spend that energy, that questioning energy, on doing more for the kingdom of Christ, of our Lord and Savior. I think that's where that prayer life comes in and is so, so important. I started to pray for others and not just for about my me, what I want. Things changed. I found that a peace came on me, a different type of a peace. I was spending more time bringing to the Lord the needs of others. Again, someone might say but Ruth, doesn't he already know? Yes, he does. But don't we ask our parents for something we need? Don't they already know? I used to say that to my kids I know, I know what you need, just let me give it to you. But it doesn't work that way. As children, we want to ask. So the more I focused on others and took the focus off of my whatever, I saw that shift in the peace that passes all understanding.
29:43
It's the only way I can explain it.
29:46 - Julie Sunne (Host)
Yeah, yeah and it's. We are inherently selfish beings and when we keep the focus on us, things aren't getting. They don't get better because we keep the focus on all of our issues. Because we keep the focus on all of our issues, I wish this would happen. I want that to happen. This hurts and that's bad.
30:07
And sure, we might have a little something that's good in there that makes us happy, but we don't experience the joy of the Lord, which is something much more lasting than just the happiness of what might happen to me today, and that prayer is essential to take our eyes off of ourselves and to put them on someone else, to put them on the Lord and to put them on others that we're praying for. And again, we can look at the examples of Jesus. Sure, in the garden, he did ask the Lord to spare him, to take the cup from him, so to speak but most of his prayers you know how many times did he pray for his disciples, for their strength, and you know so many of his prayers were about others, and that's a beautiful example for us. And the Lord's prayer that he gave us, you know so much of it was focused on his father and praying to to the Lord, to the almighty, and acknowledging him as worthy and and majestic and um capable and um able to to take. Keep us from the temptations that we fall into when we think we can handle things on our own. Uh, and I think one of the one of just the the best, the most important things in my opinion, with prayer is just that that very thing, that that we just we are acknowledging that we aren't capable, and I think that it's so important to me because I think I fall into that over and over. And I want to point out for sure, ruth, and just reiterate what you said it's so important for us not to beat ourselves up because we will continue to question, we will and bad things will continue to happen.
31:54
My life is not rosy, because I love the Lord and I'm growing in my faith and learning to trust him all the more. I have so many doubts and questions and sadness that still seeps in. But sadness and joy, you know, sorrow and joy, they can coexist with the Lord. They do coexist and he readily acknowledges. You know, this world is not our home, this world is not where we're going to have perfection. It's not going to happen here in this world until he comes back and remakes the whole world. That's when we don't have to have any more tears, and my daughter gets so excited every time we talk about no more tears. She doesn't have very many words, but she always. And my daughter gets so excited every time we talk about no more tears. She doesn't have very many words, but she always, you know. And she just gets so excited that we won't have any more of that. But now the Lord can handle our concerns and those moments when I give in to panic about my daughter's future. He's okay with that. He's okay with that and he doesn't want us to stay there. And that's where prayer serves the purpose. It doesn't keep me there.
33:08
I have a book coming. My book just came out in May and it's all about remembering who the Lord is, because that's the thing that's going to carry us through, and every chapter of that it has prayer. It starts off acknowledging where I fall short. Sometimes I forget, lord, that you are sovereign. I do. I forget all the time. I forget all the time that he's loving. I forget all the time that he is the one that knows everything. So why do I think I can figure it out? And that's so important that we acknowledge that. And he knows he's not upset at us, but he doesn't want us to stay in the stuck part. He wants so much more for us and that's the peace and joy that he can bring us when we're in communion with him.
34:05 - Ruth Hovsepian (Host)
It's been a pleasure, julie. I really appreciate your time and your sharing with us your own experiences and to my friends who are listening. If you would like more information and to get Julie's book, everything will be in the description below. Please take a look and share this episode with someone who may be struggling with prayer and why they need to pray, or they're questioning things that are happening in their lives. They are not alone, so please share this and I. If you could take a second and subscribe or like it, really helps us. It's not monetary, but it does get the message out to others that are searching as well. I thank you, my friends, thank you.
