Facing Fears & Trusting God More

In this episode, Ruth Hovsepian and Healey Ikerd discuss how to face fears and trust God more. They explore common fears encountered in counseling, the purpose of fear, and the importance of distinguishing between healthy and unhealthy fears. They emphasize the need to identify the root causes of fears and anxieties and provide practical steps to cultivate trust in God. They also discuss the misconceptions about fear and faith and the importance of making decisions based on God's truth rather than emotions. Overall, the conversation encourages listeners to trust God and step out in faith.

Takeaways

• Fear is a natural emotion created by God to keep us safe, but it can become unhealthy when it paralyzes or controls us.
• Identifying the root causes of fears and anxieties is essential in overcoming them.
• Practical steps to cultivate trust in God include reminding ourselves of His promises, focusing on His truth, and making decisions based on wisdom rather than emotions.
• Fear should not be condemned or judged but rather acknowledged and used as an opportunity to grow in faith.
• Trusting in God and stepping out in faith can lead to personal growth, increased confidence, and a deeper relationship with God.

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Transcript

Ruth Hovsepian (00:06.063)
Welcome to another episode of Out of the Darkness, the podcast where we explore faith, transformation, and the journey to finding light in the darkest moments. I'm your host Ruth Hovsepian And today we are talking about a really important subject, I think, and that is how to face your fears and trust God more. And joining us to shed light on this topic is Healey Ikerd

Christian counselor who bridges the gap between biblical principles and psychology. She has a deep love for the Bible, following Jesus, and encouraging people with God's truth. Her insights and compassionate approach have helped many face their fears and grow in their trust in God. Healey, welcome to the

Healey Ikerd (00:59.006)
Thank you so much for having me, Ruth. I appreciate that.

Ruth Hovsepian (01:02.307)
I'm so glad you could join us today. So let's dive right in. What are some common fears you encounter in your counseling practice and how do you guide these people to trust God more in the midst of these fears?

Healey Ikerd (01:20.924)
Yeah, the fears range everything from the standard of, you know, being afraid of like flying in airplanes to I've had people afraid of driving elevators, escalators, mice. I want to share all mine, but you know,

Ruth Hovsepian (01:39.876)
What about mice?

Healey Ikerd (01:46.682)
Snakes and spiders are in there. But normally, fears of health concerns, of death concerns, all those people have come in for. I think anything that's really interfering with their life, those are the ones that they normally come in and see me about when they find like I'm having extreme fear about driving down the road or, you

Ruth Hovsepian (01:53.713)
Mm.

Healey Ikerd (02:13.646)
riding with someone else and I'm not driving or finding it. Yeah, so when it's affecting their life, that's normally when they come in and go, gosh, can't, this is hard to do. And if they're Christians, they feel in that sense, like, I don't want to feel this way. God says do not fear. why am I, why am I feeling that? And I normally share, you know,

Ruth Hovsepian (02:13.937)
Mmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (02:17.605)
Paralyzing fear, guess, yeah.

Healey Ikerd (02:42.162)
I mean, fear is an emotion created by God. It is meant to keep us safe. And sometimes that fear can go to an extreme. It also means in the Bible, reverence. And so I often think like how, because that seems like different than fear of airplanes, for example, or flying. But in a sense, if we can think about reverence is we're holding something

high up that has a lot of power. And so when we look at fear, we're basically holding up that that is power. This power to kill us, it's the power to harm us, it's the power to hurt us, and that's what we're afraid of. And God says not that he doesn't condemn us for having the motion of fear, he just says, do not fear in saying that we don't have a reason to fear because he is more powerful than all those things. Anything that we're afraid of, even

He's conquered that. We don't even need to be afraid of flying or riding.

Ruth Hovsepian (03:46.093)
It, yeah, it's, it's interesting because we live, think now in a time where fear is a huge issue. People are afraid of the future. People are afraid of the political, you know, in what's happening around us right now. And I find it sometimes it is paralyzing to these people to make decisions and,

to go through their day -to -day lives. And it's interesting because prior to my recovery, you know, as an addict and to my recovery, I had certain fears. We're not talking about the mouse, the mice situation, which I'm on chairs, crying like a little girl, but I'm talking

Healey Ikerd (04:41.192)
Thanks.

Ruth Hovsepian (04:44.901)
fears of where is the future? You know, what is the point of it? Where am I going? If I don't do this, I'm very goal oriented. if I'm an, and I always wanted people to think highly of me. So if I'm not doing this, then what are people going to think of me? That was a fear that I had, but the closer I've gotten to the Lord.

And the more I've dug into his word, I say this all the time. I have a peace, a peace that passes all understanding. And I don't want to sugar coat it. I don't want to make it sound like, you know, once you're a believer, it, it all is easy. It's not. It really has been for me a matter of focusing on the word of God.

and focusing less on me and less and more on others. That was my way of dealing with the fears of future.

Healey Ikerd (05:57.544)
Yes, I think that's such a common fear too. That's why the scripture in Jeremiah gives like so many people have that scripture. The one that says for I know the plans I have for you plans to give you hope in a future. That's why a lot of people have that as their favorite verse because it reminds them of God's truth that I don't need to fear the future or you know that the one that where Jesus reminds us that he takes care of the birds

there like that brings us a great comfort in knowing we don't need to fear that because God has that in his hands. So often I look at a lot of things on a spectrum and this fear I think you can look on the spectrum also of

God here and the things that we fear over here and like where are we going to land in that spectrum? How are we behaving that shows where we are on that spectrum? If we have a fear of the future or fear of man or what he thinks or fear of harm or death, what are we doing and where is that showing up on that spectrum? So if

acting frantic or thinking about that all the time or making decisions based on that fear. We're more at that end of the spectrum that we shouldn't be on. We're showing that these things are more powerful in our life than God. And when we make decisions of like, I am afraid, but I'm going to go ahead and do the thing that I know is good to do whatever that might be. now we don't do dangerous things, you know, and we have the wisdom to discern

Ruth Hovsepian (07:13.135)
Hmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (07:39.831)
Right, Yeah.

Healey Ikerd (07:40.85)
We don't have to pick up a mouse. mean, you know, God's not calling us to do that. So good, because again, he has given us this spirit of, or this emotion of fear, and it can be good for us, or it can be bad for us. And not for kids, say this fear can be a friend or a foe. And we have to discern whether it's a friend, a win.

fears a friend to us, it's telling us something is dangerous. So like if a tiger's loose and you see it in your front yard, like you should be afraid. You should do something that keeps you safe or, you know, looking both ways to cross the street. Fear of being hit by a car, that's real. And that's a fear that God's given us a good one to keep us safe. When it becomes

enemy or a foe is when it's telling us things are unsafe that are not. So for example, know, technically the mouse is not going to hurt you. mean, my bite, I don't know, but there's always, and I tell people like nothing's a hundred percent safe. So we have to go with what's most likely like flying on an airplane. Yes. I mean, something could happen, but technically thousands

Ruth Hovsepian (08:52.081)
like, Sealey.

Healey Ikerd (09:04.494)
fly every day and so that would be where it would be more irrational or fear of like my gosh I'm dying because I have a headache like those sorts of things that that's when it's a foe it's affecting us in a negative way it's not meant to keep us safe it's meant to keep us paralyzed or stuck

Ruth Hovsepian (09:23.035)
Yeah, it's interesting. Yeah. And it's interesting you mentioned children because, you know, I think there is healthy fear, as you mentioned, and the fear of what, how your parent will react to something you're doing, which is wrong. There is that healthy portion of it where it also regulates children's behavior. You know, for example, my, my, the funny story is one of my kids called me at work way back when they were tiny.

tiny when they were young and now they're in their 30s. So and she asked me, Mom, we've done our homework on a Friday night. We've done our homework. We've done our chores. Can we watch television? Because the rule was in the house, no TV on weeknights. And on a Friday afternoon, they called me to say, technically, it's a weeknight, but we've done all these things. They knew what they had to do.

can we watch television? Well, my coworker looked over and said, Ruth, what, how, why? Why would kids call you? You'd never know if they watched or not. And I had to think about that, but there was this fear of what the punishment was because when I punished my children, was a direct result for something they had been told not to do.

and what the outcome would be if they did it because I followed through with it. And that kind of fear, I think, is healthy. What do you say about that? Because I've never thought of it as a negative fear. And I've asked them as adults, know, were you really afraid of me? said, no, we just knew that if we did something wrong, we were gonna be punished.

Healey Ikerd (11:13.744)
Mm -hmm. Yeah, so they hold you in that place of reverence that you were this powerful force in the sense of you could implement the punishment and

Ruth Hovsepian (11:26.469)
Mmm.

Healey Ikerd (11:27.014)
And I don't think like the bad fear of that would be if they're cowering down afraid to do anything that they were afraid to call to even ask like that would be the bad kind of fear. in the end, people do that with God too. They're they they want to be so on the straight and narrow because they're afraid God's gonna

Ruth Hovsepian (11:33.949)
yeah, no.

Ruth Hovsepian (11:44.342)
Mmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (11:52.069)
Right.

Healey Ikerd (11:52.75)
strike them down or if they do something wrong God hates them or whatever like that's not a healthy fear of God a healthy fear is just putting God in the place that he deserves that we trust him in this place more than we trust other things even our performance because sometimes that's why we do all these things because we're afraid God's going to be displeased and to me that's not a healthy kind of fear that's

Ruth Hovsepian (11:57.093)
Right?

Ruth Hovsepian (12:18.661)
Yeah. Yeah.

Healey Ikerd (12:22.024)
fear that again inhibits us paralyzes us Keeps us stuck and and that I don't think is pleasing to God because again God says do not Fear and so he doesn't want us to live in that he wants us to trust him so we can feel the emotion But our behavior still needs to be in line with trusting God so I can be afraid of writing

Ruth Hovsepian (12:35.078)
Mmm.

Healey Ikerd (12:51.76)
airplane. I can be afraid of flying, but I'm not going to let that fear guide me. So I'm going to drive, you know, to Europe, even if you could do that.

Ruth Hovsepian (13:02.307)
Right, right. Yeah, I remember back when I was really young being so fearful of God striking me down in my sleep if I didn't say my bedtime prayers. And, you know, as a child, I'd go to bed and forget and I'd be jolted awake in fear that I hadn't said my nighttime prayer. And if I died, I'd be going to hell.

Ruth Hovsepian (13:32.433)
That's not the God that we know. Yes, I encourage people to pray every day, but it's not a scheduled prayer. And I think that that is a fear that sometimes we bring into it. You're right. We bring into our adult life and you know, how do we begin to identify the root causes of some of

Healey Ikerd (13:38.622)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (13:59.579)
fears and, you know, anxieties from a biblical standpoint. How, how do we, how do we help maybe ourselves and how do we help others get to the root of the cause?

Healey Ikerd (14:15.081)
Sometimes it's just sitting back when we have the emotion of fear and saying, what specifically am I afraid of? And so like the fear of flying, for example, it's not just flying that makes them afraid, it's death. So if they can at least identify that and then what does God say about that? yeah, he's conquered death.

Ruth Hovsepian (14:29.701)
Right. Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (14:39.375)
Right?

Healey Ikerd (14:39.781)
Am I right in my relationship? I've accepted Jesus and I know I'm going to heaven then I don't need to fear that because best case the plane or I don't even know if that's best case but when one hand the plane lands safely the other hand I'm I get to be with the Lord and so either either of those are good so I think first identifying what we're afraid of and then we can

logic our way through God's Word of what does God say about that? I think if it's back -based, and I'm kind of weird on this in just the sense that sometimes I don't...

I don't think we always have to know why we're afraid of something to be able to overcome it. I think it can be helpful sometimes, but sometimes people know all the reasons like, this was from my childhood. My mom did this Monday and they don't do anything about it. It's so knowledge is not necessarily the thing that's going to pull us out. It is doing changing a behavior, changing a thought process.

Ruth Hovsepian (15:26.767)
Mmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (15:43.685)
Hmm, right.

Healey Ikerd (15:50.94)
Yeah, I'm kind of, even though I'm a counselor and I do dwell into a lot of those things and trying to help people like see what thing they were believing way back then and changing that. But it's the changing part that's important. If we can understand why it's okay, we can still make a change to be an act different. And God gives us that.

Ruth Hovsepian (16:09.631)
Mmm.

Healey Ikerd (16:18.068)
I love that he does that to say, don't have to just because we were raised away, we've been doing it for 50 years or whatever. Like he can still change and transform us if we're willing. And if we're able to, make the choice to say, I trust you. And even if we're so fearful, we still do the thing that shows that we trust in him. So even if

Ruth Hovsepian (16:44.024)
All right.

Healey Ikerd (16:46.544)
like so overwhelmed with anxiety when we get on that plane or whatever it is that we still do it. God's created things that help us in our brain to that's good but that's also pleasing to the Lord because it shows that we trust him and and that's when if we go back to scripture what pleased him so much is when his servants trusted him.

I mean, to me that's like, wow, it's not doing all these, you know, praying a certain amount of time, reading the Word. All those things are good. But what pleases him is when we trust him, especially when we're afraid. That's powerful.

Ruth Hovsepian (17:29.391)
Yeah, I think that there are misconceptions that people have about fear and faith. And I've often heard, well, trust in God, you know, don't be afraid of stepping out in faith and doing it. And I think that that is...

Healey Ikerd (17:41.182)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (17:49.603)
easy enough to say to, but if you're the person with the fear or the hesitancy to do something, it doesn't help. It doesn't.

Healey Ikerd (17:51.208)
Mm -hmm.

Healey Ikerd (17:54.686)
Mm -hmm.

Healey Ikerd (18:00.882)
Well, that's not a practical step. mean, so you have to have practical steps when you're actually doing something. Yeah, so, yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (18:13.137)
What, what are some of those practical steps that we can take? For example, I'm, you know, if I'm afraid of, I don't know. I know that in 2023, I committed to doing full -time ministry. And that was, I don't know if it was a fear or it was a hesitancy. I was fearful of the future and what that looked like. There was no control over it.

but I really felt that that is where the Lord was leading me, where the Holy Spirit was guiding me to. And it meant letting go of certain securities I had in place because it was part of God's plan to do so. And I was told by someone, well, you know, just have faith that God will take care of you. Okay, I do. I know all the Bible verses.

Healey Ikerd (18:56.18)
Mm -hmm.

Healey Ikerd (19:08.796)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (19:10.251)
And I understand it, but I'm human. My brain says to me, Ruth, are you serious? You're doing that? How will you pay your bills at the end of the month? So yeah, these are, think we need to also use common sense in it. When I say, yeah, I'm afraid, I don't know. It's something I need to work through.

Healey Ikerd (19:20.718)
Mm hmm. Right.

Ruth Hovsepian (19:37.603)
It's not, it's not that I'm afraid that the Lord will not be there. I'm also afraid of my human weaknesses and, and, and. Right. Right. Yes. Yes. And, and, and I think that that is also added to and fueled.

Healey Ikerd (19:53.21)
mishearing God is a common one that did you really say that?

Ruth Hovsepian (20:06.415)
by people using the phrase, I prayed and God said to me, or I'm praying, you know, and I think that feeds into it. Am I really hearing the Holy Spirit speak to me? But yeah, I agree with you. I think that there are many misconceptions about things and we need to give practical.

practical tools to people to look at and to use and not just fanciful words as I say or else, yeah.

Healey Ikerd (20:46.364)
Yeah, so one thing that we hear as I've looked through the scriptures about fear in the Bible, I have not found any condemnation for fear, even though God says a lot, do not fear, there's never condemnation in it. From the very first we see, and I don't know that this was the first emotion in the Bible, but as the first one recorded in scripture was when Adam,

sinned and he was afraid and hid and God didn't say you know he just said who told you you were naked and address the situation specifically the relationship you know

Ruth Hovsepian (21:14.702)
Mmm.

Healey Ikerd (21:27.186)
did not condemn. And I think that's really important for us to remember of like, we don't have to feel like we're a bad Christian because we're afraid. Like, of course things make us afraid. And again, God has done that so that we do think about things or that we are cautious when we need to be. But we still, if we are feeling led to do something that makes us very much afraid,

that we have to still go back.

and do the same things that you did is remind ourself of his promises. And we're praying about things and, and then stepping out and doing it, even though we are, I have the same thing. I, when I first started my private practice, I told God, I'm like, okay, you're in charge. Cause I don't know how this can work. I'm stepping out in faith over here. And I was fearful and I made a decision based on fear. And it turned out not to be so great.

I thought, I need to have this other job to help while I start my practice. And I had felt after the interview that God said, don't take the job.

but out of fear, I took it anyway and turned out to be, mean, God uses all things for good. So he did use it. And that's always one thing I tell people like, even if you step out, like God's not gonna go, well, you're on your own. Like he will still be with you in it. He will still use it for good. But through that experience, when I left that, I said, okay, I'm just gonna.

Ruth Hovsepian (22:49.711)
Right, right.

Healey Ikerd (23:08.136)
do this thing. I don't know how I'm gonna pay the bills, but I'd committed the practice to you before. So, and I, and I did that. And then it was like, I mean, like maybe a week or two later, I had someone approach me about a position at a university to work and it was like perfect. It perfect. and took that and that did help while I was, so God did have a place for me,

it's almost like the waters don't part until you step into the Jordan, you know, like the Israelites when they're going to the promised land, though they had to step in before the waters parted. And I, and I think that was essential for them because it showed not only their faith to God, but like they showed their own faith to themselves too. And

Ruth Hovsepian (23:41.861)
Mmm.

Healey Ikerd (24:04.1)
And as I have journeyed through my practice, like if times are low and I'm like, my gosh, I'm gonna pay my bills. Like that's the first thought that comes up. and then I go, yeah, God, I forgot. Like you have always been faithful. You've done this and you've done that. And sometimes maybe I just need a mental break. And that's what you're doing. Like when I can, when I can be reminded of what he's done in the past, I'm reminded of who he is and I've reminded of his promises. And

Ruth Hovsepian (24:23.022)
Right.

Healey Ikerd (24:33.832)
that sink into my heart and I make decisions anyway. I don't have to run out and go, my gosh, I need to get clients. I just rest in right in that, in that place that he says, trust me. And it's always with my practice that he's saying, trust me. And I do, and it's always worked out because I tell people in sessions all the time, we are not to make our decisions based on emotion.

Ruth Hovsepian (24:49.039)
Yeah.

Healey Ikerd (25:03.048)
Those are never good decisions. If we can make our decisions based on God's truth, God's promises, and not out of fear, out of sadness, out of any negative emotion, not out of anxiety, any of those, but especially fear, we will do a lot better in showing that we trust the Lord using

Ruth Hovsepian (25:04.516)
Mmm.

Healey Ikerd (25:31.518)
brain that he's given us to make wise decisions. And those are never emotional decisions. They may have this much emotion, but we need more wisdom than emotion. And you can kind of see that in our society, how, what society becomes when we make all of our decisions based on emotion. It, it just gathers us. We have no foundation at

Ruth Hovsepian (25:39.621)
Yeah.

Healey Ikerd (25:58.632)
And as Christians, we always want to have our feet firmly planted on who God says he is and what he says that we are.

Ruth Hovsepian (26:09.329)
I'm I'm in agreement with you and it's so interesting you said I have learned over the last year when I have these moments of fear of what do I do? I you know, I don't have enough to pay the bills this month, right? The Lord takes care of it. And

And it has humbled me over and over. And I always say, why am I so surprised? You know me, you know, it is, it is. And intellectually, I know it, right? You know, he takes care of everything. If he takes the care of the birds and the fields, will he not take care of me? I know that. And intellectually, I know that. And I see it

Healey Ikerd (26:48.316)
I mean, that is a promise in the word, That we so, yeah, yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (27:08.569)
It's a very sobering moment when I say it and then I stop and think, but Ruth, you knew that he would take care of you because you are doing what he's asked you to do. And I see it over and over again, the month where I haven't had enough, you know, clients. Then what do I do? I don't know. Okay, Lord, I'm going to look for

More clients as you said and as you were saying that I see myself doing the same thing and then I'm like, no that's not what I've been tasked to do in this season and and think and Sometimes it's dollar to dollar penny to penny sometimes and I'm so grateful for it because every time It God has shown me Ruth. Just keep keep going

Healey Ikerd (27:47.454)
Mm -hmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (28:05.873)
This is your path. It's not necessarily an easy one, but this is where I want you to be. And I look at it as maybe, you know, God is teaching me something, you know, not to trust on myself, which I've always, that has been sort of my MO. This is how I've done things. I've always trusted on my own abilities. And this is a first in my, you know, almost 59 years where I am saying,

I am not in control as I thought I was in the past, which I wasn't, right? Because Satan was in control of my life, but I'm saying I'm fully trusting in the Lord, fully committing my life to him. And I think that that is, those are tools that we need to help others get for themselves. And I think it's part of our discipling.

Healey Ikerd (28:38.76)
Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Ruth Hovsepian (29:03.803)
heart of life as well, whether in the church or in the home, to give people practical steps and tools to say, how do I cultivate a deeper trust in God? So when I am overwhelmed with fear, this is what I need to do.

Healey Ikerd (29:23.494)
Mm -hmm, right and and that first thing will always be don't condemn yourself or make judgments about yourself or your faith because you have the emotion of fear So sometimes people just get right there like my gosh, I'm afraid I don't trust God. I'm a terrible Christian and all that and That we could just take fear is is what it is. It's an emotion. It's fine

Ruth Hovsepian (29:39.546)
Mmm.

Healey Ikerd (29:46.812)
What are we going to do after that though? And then that's where we go into reminding ourselves of God's promises and doing the thing, the very scary thing that he's calling us to do. Because often he calls us to do scary things, often out of our comfort zone. But he's created this thing in us as we step out and do the things, our brain starts to adjust to go,

I can trust the Lord. I thought that was an unsafe thing, but it turns out it is safe. And that's the same way, like if we do fly on a plane, our brain starts to adjust like, I made it through. That's good. That wasn't a life or death situation, which is when our, you know, good fear should kick in when it's the tiger out in the yard, like.

Ruth Hovsepian (30:36.965)
Mm.

Ruth Hovsepian (30:42.586)
Right.

Healey Ikerd (30:44.272)
Instead then our brain starts to adjust and can better assess. No, this is not a dangerous situation. This is an okay one, although it may require some caution. Also, the more that we not listen to our fear and trust God, the healthier we become mentally because then we're able to have a better emotional intelligence that we are able to think through logically and not.

emotion -based and we all have to practice at that as we step out and do the things that aren't fear -based but we know that God's called us to do. It also helps us build confidence in ourselves that we can do things that seem hard and seem scary but also increases our confidence in God and

those are some real practical things that happen when we actually do the things that we're fearful of. And we'll find as we do them, it, will have a lot less fear because our body will adjust as we teach it that it's okay. We can do these things. So if it's stepping out on stage for a first time or doing a podcast or like whatever it is that God's calling you to do, or maybe an author signing like

Ruth Hovsepian (32:11.675)
Mm.

Healey Ikerd (32:12.142)
ever those things are that God calls you to the more that you do them our body and our brain it adjusts and our heart grows stronger in the Lord and knowing we can trust him even if things don't go well we still made it through maybe learn some things so fear although we try to avoid it is not necessarily a bad thing it's it could be so helpful in helping us grow in our faith

taking what we think is reverent, whether it's ourselves or whatever that fear is and putting it over here and putting our reverence in God. God's the most powerful thing. Not me, not everybody else, not what they think or all this, but it's God. And we always want to be more on this side of the spectrum that we trust God. We have more reverence in him than we do in anything else.

Ruth Hovsepian (32:44.142)
Yeah.

Ruth Hovsepian (33:08.207)
Healey thank you so much for being with us today. It's been really inspiring to hear about how we can face our fears and deepen our trust in God. And for our listeners who want to connect with Healey and learn more about her work and her books, be sure to visit her website and follow her on social media. All that information is in the description box.

And don't forget to subscribe to Out of the D for more insightful conversations and uplifting stories until next time. Keep seeking the light and sharing it with others. I bless