[INTERVIEW] What No One is Saying About Money with Lindsey Konchar, Financial Social Worker

In this episode, we cover: 

• What is financial therapy? 
• Steps to Master you Money Mindset
• Tips to take control of your money today
• How to Schedule for a FREE 15 minute money consult with Lindsey 

Want to connect with Lindsey Konchar?
Instagram Account: @copyingwithlindsey
Website: copingwithlindsey.com
Book - (signed copy)I Got 99 Coping Skills and Being a B*tch Ain't One
How to Negotiate Your Medical Bills Freebie - CLICK HERE
Schedule Your FREE 15 minute money consult with Lindsey - CLICK HERE

Remember that, you are worthy. You have value. You get to take up space in this world simply because you exist. Don’t let anyone, including yourself, convenience you otherwise. If that idea or vision for your life is in you, then it is for you.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:07

Can you believe they have the audacity? Welcome to the have the Audacity podcast. I'm your host, jacey Lawlin. I'm on a mission to empower women like you to live audaciously. What does it mean to live audaciously, you ask? Living audaciously means you're no longer available for living your life based on someone else's agenda, standards or boundaries. It's time to activate your power, use your voice and create the life you're meant to live. So the next time someone asks, can you believe she had the audacity, you can look at them and say, yeah, I did. Hey, audacious human I am.

Speaker 1: 0:45

I say this every time, but it's true I was so excited for today's episode. Like I love every one. It's like each episode is. You know, people say like art is like their baby. They create it, they birth it into the world and you get to see. I feel like a lot of musicians talk about this. You write a song, you produce it, you create it and they talk about how it's like their baby, and then they birth it into the world and you can't wait to see how the world takes it and, like, reacts to it and embraces it. And that's how I feel about every single episode. So when I come on and I say I'm so excited for today's episode. It's because I truly am. Each one of these is like their own little piece of art and I just love getting to put it out into the world. So thank you for being here, because it truly means the world to me. But I'm so excited. It is a returning guest and I'm so excited to have her on. Lindsay is back. So if you haven't listened to the episode before where Lindsay was on, she was on episode 53 and I've linked it in the show notes If you haven't listened to it. It's Ways to Cope with Stress.

Speaker 1: 1:55

At the beginning of the episode, we talked about how Lindsay wrote a book 99 Coping Strategies but being a bit chain one and we talked all about mental health and coping with stress and burnout and all of those things and it was such a beautiful conversation because, if you haven't met her before, lindsay is a licensed therapist and she wrote a book and she kind of talks about her pivots and her journeys. Well, she recently, after the recording of the episode and it came out the back half of 2023, lindsay did a pivot and she was certified to become a financial therapist and she talks about the journey and the pivot and how finding the place where you belong, how that feels, which is something we can take away, how you can just change your mind, but that's what she does now. She's a financial therapist, and we talk about what the heck even is a financial therapist, because that's not something really talked about. We know about accountants and CPAs and all those things, but nobody talks about a financial therapist. And so Lindsay is a self-proclaimed your favorite financial therapist, and she's here to help you feel excited about money. She talks about how money isn't just a math problem there's always so much more to the equation.

Speaker 1: 3:07

So by understanding your thoughts, feelings and behavior, plus making goal-getting action plans, lindsay helps you find the root cause of your money mismanagement, to make your dream life come true, and not even just like your money mismanagement, but just like how to manage it better, how to manage it in a way that's going to help you get closer to your goals quicker, and to really understand where your thoughts and your beliefs around money come from.

Speaker 1: 3:31

And you know we talk on this podcast a lot about growth right and how, each level you go, you're going to have new issues, or the same issue that you dealt with before is going to come back in a slightly different way.

Speaker 1: 3:44

Well, that's the same way you may be like. Well, jc, I dealt with my money issues and I'm in a good place, but you're going to come in, the more money you get, like stuff's going to resurface and you're going to need to work through it and that's where having support is and even having support financially in this way on your money mindset so important and, honestly, this conversation is packed full of tangible tips for you to walk away from this interview and start using right now. Like this conversation has so many things, you're going to want to listen to this more than once because each time you listen to it, something else is going to stick out to you. There's so much valuable tips and tricks in this episode all around money that I am so excited to get to bring this to you and, plus, honestly, it's time that we normalize the conversation around money. So, without further ado, let's dive into today's episode. All right, audacious humans. Lindsey is back on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 4:54

I'm so excited, lindsey, so glad to have you here again. Thank you, thank you. Super happy to be here.

Speaker 1: 4:57

We were chatting a little bit before we hopped on, about how you were talking, about how you've pivoted a lot in the last two years and how does that feel to be like? Okay, this is now the spot that I feel really good in.

Speaker 2: 5:12

Good. It feels so aligned and I knew like kind of my history for people didn't listen to the episode that I was on. Previously I wrote and published a book after I had my first daughter, or my first child I guess I have one daughter, one son but when she was nine months old, I was just like in the thick of postpartum depression, anxiety, rage I call it the trifecta. It was horrible and I knew I needed something more for myself and so I wrote and published a book and that came out in the middle of 2022. And then I would kind of like dip my toe into coaching for new moms, just helping them get out of postpartum everything. Because you know, again, that was like my pain at the time and I was well and I I'd kind of gotten over the hump and so I wanted to, like you know, reach back and help other people kind of out of that. But in my gut I knew like that was going to be something that I didn't want to be in forever, because it was so hard for me that I was pregnant with my second baby at the time and I was like I just don't know if I'm going to be in that like headspace to be able to help other women out of that. It's super important and I knew that and that was kind of like my dissonance there. It was like I want to be able to help and I'm not sure this is right. And so, you know, I kind of did that for a while and whatever. And then, as I was preparing to have my son and I was just really like I don't want to go through what I went through with my daughter. I will avoid that at all costs because it was so heavy.

Speaker 2: 6:53

I was reading or listening to the book called how Not to Hate your Husband After Kids so as you do and in that book she mentioned financial therapy and I literally hit stop. I was out running errands and I hit pause and I was like financial therapy. What in the heck is that? Because I'm a licensed therapist. So I'm like okay, that sounds right up my alley. And what I haven't shared with people on the podcast before is that my husband and I have been on our own financial wellness journey for almost eight years. I've loved learning about money. I've loved learning about the relationship that I have to money. Over these years I've kind of headed it. My husband is happy to engage when I really make him, but otherwise he's like no, this is totally your thing, you do it.

Speaker 2: 7:36

So as soon as I heard financial therapy, I was like, oh my God, sign me up. So I went home, googled the crap out of financial therapy and what does that mean? And it turns out as a licensed therapist, I am qualified to get the certifications. And so I did that. I got certified and then I entered a business course, because I've never taken a business class in my whole life. So I was like, okay, if I'm really going to do this, if I'm really going to take the bull by the horns and I'm going to do it. And so I invested in myself, I invested in this class and I got certified and I took this class and I started taking clients, um gosh, almost six months ago and it's gone super well and it's like I'm here, I'm in it, I love it, and it just feels so good to finally like have arrived at, like, my true purpose, my true calling, like, like. It's awesome.

Speaker 1: 8:26

I just appreciate you sharing the whole journey and like all the little moments like to get to this point, because I think it can be like so many people can see themselves in that story where it's like, oh, I'm going through this, okay, I'm going to create this from this, and it feels good in the moment you're like and none of those things that you did like were bad. But you're like, ah, this still isn't it. Like then you started having um doing postpartum coaching and you're like this is so important and I believe in this so much, but this also is just not it yet either. And just that moment when you find the right fit, like it's like holding on to it loosely to figure out where it's gonna fit and not making it mean anything if you pivot exactly yeah.

Speaker 2: 9:14

And I, when we um, you were there right at at Keisha's first empower her live event yes, um, yeah. And so that was October 2022 and and so this was really like I was like real pregnant. Then I was, like, you know, kind of my last like hurrah before the baby was coming and all this stuff, and I was just really wanting to find clarity there, like that was really an in my gut. I remember sitting in the seat and in my gut I was like I want to do something with finances, but I didn't know what financial therapy was at the time and I didn't know that was an option for me and I kept having that like limiting belief, right, that like I'm not going to have like any ground to stand on there, like who's going to listen to me? I'm not a CPA, I'm not this, I'm not that. Who's going to listen to me? I'm not a CPA, I'm not this, I'm not that.

Speaker 2: 10:11

And then so it felt so nice to have that click six months later when I was listening to that book, I was like, oh my God, this is a thing that I'm totally qualified to do, and it's more in the realm of what I'm interested in the logistics of things and the investing and all that stuff. I love it, I do it, I teach it a bit, but my true love for it is really understanding your relationship to money and so finding that one like being able to pivot. Sure, lori Harder at that event said you have to be okay with looking stupid, and I've taken that to heart. I was like I don't care what other. If people want to look back at my Instagram or something and see like, oh, weird, she was writing a book and now she was doing this, and then she was doing motherhood stuff and then that or whatever, and now she's doing financial therapy, it's like, yeah, I did, but I wasn't afraid to pivot, because who cares? Because now my ideal people are going to find me and I'm going to reach out and serve them in a way that is going to be so strong.

Speaker 2: 11:02

And so I think to the listener, if you're like in that stage of like, oh, I want to pivot, or I'm like something else is on my heart, you can find a way to like find that alignment, but listen to your gut, like it doesn't mean stop what you're doing, like right now, but like keep, like, just keep your spidey senses going, you know, because it was like in that book I could have been like half half mindlessly listening or I could have been like totally engaged in it. It was lucky that like I really was engaged in listening at that point and and heard those words and like I said just kind of like had my, had my moment, but it was like in what an unlikely place to really like hear the words that have now created truly like my whole business. You know, it was just yeah.

Speaker 1: 11:47

And it's just staying open to the little nudges like how it's going to come to life. Like you, you know, in that moment at the conference, you had the nudge and you were like I would love to do something with finance. I have no idea. Like who am I to do this? And you just like didn't try to like figure it out or force something to happen. Like, right then in that moment, you just like let it sit and then it like gives it space. So then, six months later, it's like when you're ready for because in that moment you know you're like you're very pregnant and you're like you're ready to be like here's your, here's your new business idea, right before you have a kid.

Speaker 1: 12:22

Yeah, like that was not, that would not the time, like that was not the time for it. But it was like, okay, here's the nudge, here's the open your mind to this. And then, right at the divine moment, was like okay, you're ready here. Here it is, here's the rest, here's how this is going to work.

Speaker 2: 12:39

Yeah, no, I love that. That's such a good point you make, Cause, yeah, it was exactly that. It's like I kind of knew, I kind of knew and I let it build and I heard it and I but and again, it wasn't like I was suppressing it, it wasn't like I was pushing it away, but I was just kind of like what does this mean? What could it look like? Like? Meeting it with curiosity, I guess, more than anything.

Speaker 1: 12:58

No, that's so true. And then even you know well, I want to dive into all things your relationship with money, cause I think this is such a thing. But just to like share another experience, like in pivoting and things like I pivoted a lot in this last year and it was like I have this podcast, when this podcast grew a community and then I have, um, a master's degree in online instructional design and for courses, and I was like, well, I guess I should use that. And I really felt pulled to that and I started like I launched that part of my business and then I let like myself get in my own way of like who am I to do this? Like what am I doing? Like no, let's not do this.

Speaker 1: 13:36

So then I backed off from it for a while and then it just kept coming back and coming back and coming back until I was like, okay, I just have to go for it. And now this business is taking off. But it's like I look back and I'm like, ah, six months ago I wasn't ready. Yeah, I wasn't ready, I hadn't learned the things I needed to know. Now, so it makes sense Like the timing just wasn't right and just not making it mean anything. And so if you're, yeah, if you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I pivoted, but it didn't feel right at the time, but it's not going away, well, like, maybe revisit it, maybe now's the time for it.

Speaker 2: 14:13

Yeah, yeah, no, I like it. I totally agree and it's. It's super fun once you arrive, but it's frustrating when you're in the midst of it. Right, you're like, and if having those like self-deprecating thoughts or that imposter syndrome is like, it's really challenging. And even now it's like, sure, it might like surface here and there, but I have so much more like like, I can like roll my eyes a little bit more at my, you know, my, my little self on my shoulder or something, but it is really frustrating. So I mean, feel your feels on that totally. But yes, it feels like so good to like we're here, we did it.

Speaker 1: 14:46

We did so, switching gears and diving into this what is financial counseling Like? Let's just start there, Cause yes, let's start there.

Speaker 2: 15:02

That's so funny. Like literally every person that you know I've walked, I met a bunch of people now and they're like, oh, so what do you do? I'm like, oh, financial therapist, and they're like the face they give me is like what is that? So financial therapy is really understanding your thoughts, feelings and behaviors around money and then merging it with actionable steps to reach your unique goals, and so a lot of what we're doing is exploring your relationship to money, looking back at well, looking first at your current situation like where are we at, what's going on and then looking back to kind of your childhood, what you grew up with with your parents or guardians, what your experiences were with your friends, what you know those kinds of things where we call that your money story. And then your money story is still happening now, like it never no-transcript, and that's okay. But that's what we really need to like hold on to is like what is what is actually enough for us? What does it look like? What do we want to do? What do we want to accomplish? Who do we want to be? A buyer side, how do we want to feel? All of that, and I call those your North Stars, like really getting really, really clear on what your North Stars are, and that kind of is tied to then your why, why you're here, why you're doing the work, and then we come up with a really tight action steps on how exactly you're going to start reaching those goals. And we always set short-term, mid-term and long-term goals.

Speaker 2: 16:43

And I don't even like to call them financial goals, because for me and I genuinely think this is true in every decision, every single decision that you make in your life, there is a financial component to it. That is true only for your health. And if you have children, then you have to kind of figure out, like, are they coming, are they not? Are we getting a baby? Right, like something like that. But otherwise, like, the questions are am I healthy enough to do X, y or Z that I want to accomplish and so like.

Speaker 2: 17:10

And if you are healthy, you barely even think about that, right? The next is do I have enough money to do that? Like, what are the funds in which I'm going to be able to afford the thing that I want to do? Right, that can be little, it can be big, it can be going out to coffee with a girlfriend or it can be going back for your master's degree, right, like there's different levels of it, but no less. It is always something that we're thinking about and then, like I said, the kids think but so that's kind of what we do and I get really, really specific on how are we going to work together to reach those goals? What, like I said, what steps do we need to take? Where's your money going to be going? And so that's kind of like those logistical, actionable things where we're like looking at your numbers, looking at your spending habits, your saving habits, your investing habits, your giving habits, like all of that.

Speaker 1: 18:00

I love this. This is so interesting. I'm like I'm learning, along with the listener too. And I'm also like oh, that's like I've been in therapy and I'm a big encourager for people being in therapy and I was in therapy for two years, and I'm like this is a whole other level of vulnerability. Like oh, let me show you my bank account.

Speaker 2: 18:19

Like oh, it's scary, like every client, that I go through their their statements. One of my clients the other day was like oh my God, I would rather you put me on a stage naked than look through my bank account. She's such an avoider. We call that the ostrich effect, sticking your head in the sand and just avoiding money talks all the times. But she did it and you know. What's so funny is people often think that they're like oh, I get really anxious about money, or I don't really know, or I feel stupid or whatever, which is so, so normal. But actually what people don't realize all the time is you're not as anxious about the money part. You're anxious about the lack of clarity around your money and around what money can bring and do for you. And there's so much of this scarcity like I don't make enough or I can't do this, or there's feelings of deprivation or deprecation, all that when it's like, no, really it's about prioritizing the things that matter to you. And the example I always talk about and this is like a minor example, but it's still really important is like we get caught up in this thing called a mirror exposure effect M-E-R-E mirror exposure effect and what happens, especially now, is you're not comparing yourself to just the people that our parents were or whatever 30 years ago, where it's like, oh, I see my neighbors and the people that you know our parents were, whatever 30 years ago. Where it's like, oh, I see my neighbors and the things that they have and I see my co workers and the things that they have. That's kind of where it ended. Right Now, with social media being what it is, we see our neighbors less, our co workers less, but we see the whole world, literally the whole world, and so the mirror exposure effect will tell you that, as long as you are merely exposed to something one, two, three the more you are exposed to it, the more you're like I think I need that. I kind of want that. Yeah, I think I definitely should get that. And then it leads to online shopping, which is so easy, right, we have one click to buy shopping, which is so easy. Right, we have one click to buy options. It is quite literally harder for your brain to bypass that than it is for your finger just to press the button. It is easier to and the apps know it, right. These designers are really smart.

Speaker 2: 20:40

So for me, it's always the bucket hat thing I talk about this all the time. I freaking hate bucket hats and literally I don't know how, but every single person, oh, she has a bucket hat. There's a bucket hat. There's a bucket hat in Greece. I'm like get these bucket hats out of my face. I hate them, but that's me. I don't give a shit. If you like bucket hats, you get all the bucket hats you want.

Speaker 2: 21:01

Girl Like one of my best friends. She's like oh, I just got my coach bucket hat. I'm like I don't care, but like that's what she likes. I'm like cool, you do your thing Right. But it's like I've been exposed to bucket hats so much that it's amazing that I've actually like dodged the bullet there. But the point is right is like if you are seeing all this different stuff that people have and people are doing, it's like so easy to get caught up in that comparison game, and that's why it's really really important then to have your North stars so crystal clear in your head, because you can really easily look and say like oh, wow, that's kind of cute. Actually, that doesn't align with the goals that I have going on right now, and my North stars are telling me to like keep going forward rather than deviate and go West for a while you know.

Speaker 1: 21:45

So how do you and I can see that like needing your North stars, like that's so important because it is true and we are exposed to so much and compare ourselves to so much. I mean, I can even think, like, if you are an entrepreneur and have a business, like, are you doing something in your business because you want to do it? Are you doing something because you've seen a lot of people do it and have success? You're like, oh, this is what I should be doing, I want this. And then you get in it and you're like, oh, just kidding, I don't actually want this Totally.

Speaker 2: 22:13

Totally.

Speaker 1: 22:13

Yes, like these were not the problems that I wanted to have. Like no, thank you. Um, and so these North Stars are so important? How do you like, if you're like well, lindsay, I get it, I need a North Star with my finances and like to help me make decisions, but I don't know where the F to do that, like how the F to do that. So how does one go about figuring out, like what that North Star is?

Speaker 2: 22:38

Yeah, no great question. So I think your North Stars are different things. Like I said, there's like some short term, some some medium term and some longterm. It's really about figuring out, like, what matters most to you and and the people that you want to do with. So like, for example, one of our North stars right now and they're going to change. That's the other thing I should mention. They're not always going to be the same. Your longterm ones will probably be be pretty consistent, but our goal as a family is to travel to Portugal next year. That's what we want to do.

Speaker 2: 23:08

So it's really easy for me when I'm out Black Friday shopping and I'm looking around at all these deals or whatever and I can be like well, I can buy this sweater, for this literally happened. I can buy a sweater for $30. It was cute. I have probably three places right now that I could think that I would wear it, but I also want that $30 to go into my Portugal fund. For me, it's so much more important that my family get to do that and that I can envision me having a sangria in the middle of the plaza and my children running around playing and my husband sitting next to me at this little table, I have the exact vision of the sangria that I am drinking and exactly how I want that moment to play out. And I get to thank myself for not you know purchasing that sweater that truly I have 18 other sweaters that I could choose from, you know. So that's one example. So that's really easy North Star to point to, and that now is a short-term goal for us. It was kind of a long term, excuse me, a medium term, but we're talking 2024. So it's fast approaching. So there's that. There's also, like you can kind of think of it as your value-based pillars, your value-based spending. So what are the things that you really want, that you really value, and turn those into goals, which then kind of turn into those North stars. So for us, like I said, traveling is a big one. That's something that we would love to do and I really want to bring my kids along and and do all of that. But some people are homebodies. They're like traveling isn't for me and that's totally fine, that doesn't have to be it.

Speaker 2: 24:43

One of your North Stars can be the celebration you're going to have after you pay off debt, if you are suffocating under credit card debt, because that's truly when you have credit card debt. I know that's what it feels like. It's like you are drowning, you're suffocating under that. When we work together and you make that plan and we get everything figured out and you know the date, the exact date in which you are going to be out of that credit card debt, and you have a plan exactly as clear as my goal for Portugal is about how you're going to celebrate that moment, then that's your North Star. It's like that vision, that exact, clear moment of what you want, and it looks so different for everyone. So it's really just about noticing again, finding where you're at currently and following the map and figuring like, okay, this is what I want in the next two years, this is what I want, and this can be going on a date with your partner every month. That's one of our North Stars. We want to do this date. We want to go here, we want to try this place. Whatever Great, it can also be long-term. We're on track to retire my husband when he's 55 and I'll be 53. And that's one of our North Stars. That's our long-term plan. So I have us on track for investing how much we need to invest and reverse engineering the calculations of that.

Speaker 2: 26:07

So it can get a little convoluted. When you're like I don't even know how to do that, it sounds really intimidating. But when you're working with somebody or have an accountability partner or start consuming the knowledge that you need to consume, it becomes actually quite simple, because so much about money is actually really easily done when we automate it. Our paycheck is cut into this pie slice and it's all automated and we don't really think about it. To be honest with you, it's just doing its thing and that's that. I can make automatic transfers or one-time transfers if I want to. So that sweater, when I put it down, it's like nope, that's my Sangria sweater. Um, I could go in my car and make that one-time transfer super easy, um, but so much of our like long-term stuff especially is all automated.

Speaker 1: 26:56

I, I just love, like that's a very clear tactical, like what's important to you, what are the goals that you're really wanting? And having those short, midterm, long goal like long-term goals and really filtering all your decisions through that and even like I was thinking of an example, I've been doing this without even realizing that that is. What I've been doing is, um, I've been working on some house projects lately and I was like I don't really want to eat out because that's like $30 to go eat out and I could use that $30 to go towards the new light fixture that I want and like I'd much rather have that light fixture. So, yeah, I'm going to eat at home. And then you're like I don't even feel bad, there's no. Like oh, I can't go eat out because I want to get this.

Speaker 2: 27:44

It's like, no, I could, I'm choosing not to to eat that Chipotle, but I can't because I'm broke or I'm poor, whatever, like, whatever we say, right, it's not that, it's that you have the power of your own. Like empowered is such a word that's like thrown around, right, but really empowered is is giving other people power, and you don't need to be empowered, you need to have the power within yourself to find your priorities and then make those decisions, like you did with the light fixture. Like we're also we're in the middle of, you know, doing stuff in our basement and finishing things, and it's been so much easier to be like. Well, next is this, and this is what we want to do, and so, therefore, we're going to eat out as a family, less Great, that's perfect example that you come up with. And, yes, and you don't feel that deprivation, right.

Speaker 1: 28:44

Exactly and it just changes your whole, your whole thought process around it and just the energy behind it. Then you're going into this feeling like, no, I'm making this and I would rather do that. And then not eating out becomes easier. And it's not some shame place where you're eating at home thinking about like wow, I wish I had the money to eat out. And then you're making this negative money story about yourself and I was even thinking this is so applicable.

Speaker 1: 29:06

If you have some debt that you want to pay off and you're like I could not go buy, spend $50 on Starbucks a month and pay $50 extra and I'll pay my the deal off, like you know, know, whatever, it is like two months faster, yep. And you're like I'd rather have the two hundred dollars a month. You know, in four months extra every month that I'm not having to pay towards this because I sacrificed, or like that's just more of a priority than getting coffee, like I could make coffee at home, exactly yeah, and if there's one day here and there that you want coffee, great, do it.

Speaker 2: 29:45

if there's one day here and there that you want coffee, great, do it. If there's one day that you're like, no, I really do want to go eat out and I'll wait another week to get that light fixture, fine, do it. You know, but you're in control and that's what it's all about and that's what feels so good. When you get to a place where you're like I get, I get to choose, like I work hard for this money and now I get to choose where it's going to serve me, what it's going to do for me, how it's going to help me.

Speaker 1: 30:07

That is so like just this really is like I mean you said it like nobody needs to be empowered, like you have the power in you. It's just like tapping into it and owning it and really just making decisions from that place. And so I'm sure that you've probably have dealt with this before and, like you know links, and so I'm sure that you probably have dealt with this before and like you know, debt is like a big thing our generation deals with for like all different levels. Like I'm thinking like student loan payments are back on and everybody's having to deal to deal with that.

Speaker 1: 30:34

And you know, I recently just had a conversation yesterday with a guest on the podcast and they were talking about how kids don't want to go to college anymore because they're like well, we bought, like I did. Like go to four years, you're gonna have a jury. Like you're gonna be set, get your college degree, you're gonna have the career you're gonna be set like you're gonna be golden. I'm like I don't make that much and I have a job that you have to have a college degree for, and then I have 50K in student loan debt because college is expensive and you're like that's like my yearly salary. So we're this is not. You know, I have friends who didn't go to college at all, have no student loan debt and make three times as much as I do, and you're just like okay, this is cool.

Speaker 2: 31:22

And it has like a millennial, like I'm on like the young, younger side of the millennial, whatever. I don't even know where the cutoff is, but I'm thinking I'm like two years ahead of it or something. I don't know, but we were. It was like it almost wasn't even a question for so many of us. It was like you're going to college period, like they're like're like where are you going to college? It wasn't like, oh, are you going to college? You know, um, and because of that, the trades actually sacrificed a lot.

Speaker 2: 31:49

Like we are down, electricians and plumbers and carpentry or carpenters and, um, all these different professions that are so important, that were, you know, mostly a male-dominated, but actually have picked up so much speed for women and their salaries are quite incredible, very good, and going to trade school is far less expensive than a four-year degree. But it was like, oh, those quote, unquote blue collar jobs or whatever, they don't matter as much, you need a four-year degree, you need a four-year degree, they don't matter as much, you need a four-year degree, you need a four-year degree. And I think so many and we, like I was absolutely in this position. I, too, went to a four-year college, um, but my parents had no idea what they were doing like.

Speaker 2: 32:32

It wasn't like when we were filling up the FAFSA and all that. It was like such a guessing game for them and so, but it was just like assumed to take on these loans and and deal with with all of that, and so it is. It's a really interesting. It's gonna be really interesting to see kind of what, like, younger kids and really I mean even teenagers now are going to be choosing to do Because, also, online businesses have really taken off. You don't need a degree, right, you need special skills, but but certainly not a degree for it. So it it is.

Speaker 1: 33:03

It's going to be really interesting to see kind of how that all plays itself out and it's like you know, we looked at that and I know, like our parents did too, and that was the whole marketing scheme behind it, because, you're right, like I mean, it was the same thing. It wasn't. Are you going to college? It's where are you going? Like that's just a given and was like it was an investment. So you take on this debt because it's an investment in your future.

Speaker 1: 33:26

And and then even you know we talk about credit card debt, like can be very suffocating when you're trying to pay it off. And people get into that for a multitude of different reasons. I mean, it could be medical issues that are like you're not allowed to work and you're just trying to like survive, and you know it doesn't debt doesn't always equate to something bad, like that. You weren't like the negative connotation that, like, society can have around it.

Speaker 1: 33:55

There's a lot of different reasons why people end up in situations with debt, but they're like listening to this and they're like, okay, I know I have a North star, that I want to have my debt paid off and I want to have investment for retirement and all of these things, but they're like they have the shame around where they're at. And so what do you say to people who are feeling the shame for if they have a lot of debt and they're in this situation and they're like all my money goes to paying bills, and I'm like I don't even know what to do and I just like I can't believe I got myself into this point, because I know people are thinking those thoughts, listening to this, and so what do you say to that Somebody who has that shame narrative around their debt?

Speaker 2: 34:40

Every person has shame around money. It's really interesting. Whether it's debt related or not, people have shame around how much they're giving. People have shame around if they received an inheritance. People feel shame because it's embarrassing to have too much money or whatever. It's so odd when you're talking to people about money in general've researched this man. His name is Ted Klotz. He was actually a sex addiction therapist and he transformed into working into money, coaching and different things like that. But he was at a seminar about teaching about money and he said there is more shame in this room than I've ever worked with. And the other therapist next to him was like but you're a sex therapist, a sex addiction therapist, and he was like way more shame in money, way more shame in money.

Speaker 2: 35:34

So it's a really good question that you're asking, because it's true, if you have credit card debt, it is so common to go to the place of like I'm so stupid, how could I have gotten myself into this much debt? How did this happen? I should have known better, and I'll say a couple of things about it. One is I always say that money is a language that we were never taught. Your parents very unlikely taught you anything about money. And if it was, it was like little tidbits, like money doesn't grow on trees. Okay, thanks, dad. That dad, that's cool, like it was. Just it's a taboo topic, right. And so also, there's no formal education, or there hasn't been historically in education, so you were never required to take a personal finance class.

Speaker 2: 36:16

And then the third in that is like our government Like, if we're looking at, like what we're supposed to be like modeled is like what comes in and what goes out should be zero. Like our government is in trillions, trillions and trillions of dollars of debt. So it's definitely not like a hey, we can look to the macro level and be like do as I say, not as I do. Is that the government's motto here? Like I'm not sure, right, and this isn't like a political debate, like Republican or Democrat. This is like very like this took us decades and decades and decades to get us off into that debt. It's just, it's true across the board, right?

Speaker 2: 36:52

So the three pillars in which we learn from completely have not taught us anything about money, and yet we are so hard on ourselves that we can't speak the language of money. We're like, oh, this is ridiculous, because it's assumed that it should be innate that we just should know and we don't. It's like if you go to Paris and you don't speak French and you're not going to sit there and be like God, I'm such an idiot, I don't speak French. No, you don't do that. And yet with your money, nope, you've never been taught, you've never taken a class, you've never worked with any like nothing, and yet you're like so hard on yourself for it. And so if you're in that like debt cycle I see a lot where people are like I got myself out, but then I got myself right back in. That's really common or if you just have accumulated debt and this is your first time, you've never been able to climb your way out. One let me tell you how normal it is Like that's something that I really wish could be like totally understood is just how much each individual you know in America has so much debt, and whether it's consumer debt, which is that credit card debt we're talking about, or, you know, student loan debt, or mortgage or car payments, or whatever it is, truly we live in a debt trap, like that's what we have our country has designed us into. But it's really important to meet yourself where you're at, like we were saying earlier with, like, our entrepreneurial journeys and finding the right alignment. This is part of your money story. There's a reason that now you might feel inspired to like okay, now I'm ready to take control, now I'm ready to learn, I'm open to it, I'm curious about it, I'm going to show myself some compassion.

Speaker 2: 38:35

I think so often we're telling ourselves these. We call them money scripts and we're saying things like I'm just bad with money, I've never been good with math, and now I'm bad with money. And I just I'm just so bad at it. And it's like okay, if you've been telling yourself for that for 30 years, it's not going to change overnight. You can't all of a sudden start saying like now I'm really good with money, but you can throw that yet on there. Or you can literally stop yourself in your tracks and say but you can throw that yet on there. Or you can literally stop yourself in your tracks and say no, no, no, I'm not bad with money, I'm learning about money and your brain is going to understand the difference.

Speaker 2: 39:13

Your brain is very smart and if you're trying to go, I always say throw it in neutral. It's like if you're in this negative space of like I'm so bad with money. I'm so bad with money and all of a sudden you try and throw a positive right at it, your brain's going to be like that's a lie, you're not going to believe it. But if you kick it into neutral instead and say I'm not bad with money, I'm learning about money. I haven't spoken this language, so I'm going to learn it, your brain can register that as the truth and you'll be a lot more likely to get a lot further, a lot faster. So, yeah, I think to sum that up right is like one you were never taught anything. Two you haven't started learning the language. Show yourself some compassion and make sure you're kicking it into neutral before we like get you into a positive space.

Speaker 1: 40:00

I love it and it's just like looking at money the same thing. I mean, it is a mindset, it's its own category of a mindset and how you would want to flip anything, it's the same thing. If somebody's listening to this and they're just like, okay, cool God, like I've never looked at finances, I want to start speaking. The money, would you say. Like a great place to just start is to gain awareness. If you're the one that puts the ostrich effect yeah, ostrich effect, yep, yeah, that puts their head in the sand and does not pay attention, they're like Lindsay, I do not open my bank account. I don't my bills get paid, but I don't. I can't tell you where stuff goes.

Speaker 2: 40:36

It's like a good step, like first baby step is like let's just open it up and let's just see if gain awareness where we're spending our money.

Speaker 2: 40:52

That's a good question. I would say, not yet that comes, but not yet what I would say like really cause we're going to break that baby step even to like way even tinier baby steps. If you have not started like learning about it at all, I would say like one of the best things to do is actually follow some financial people on social media. If you're on socials and you're already looking at it, have some of that just thread into your feed a little bit so you're like oh, didn't know that fact. That's the smallest thing you can do is quite literally follow some financial therapist or follow somebody that has positive money mindset, coaching, stuff like that. Where it's like, okay, that's interesting, I didn't really think about money that way, not like a Bitcoin, bro, or something like that. That's probably a little out of our league, we don't and frankly, just no. But something like that where you're like, oh, that's an interesting thing. Where you're just seeing it, it's kind of like in your realm. Then if you've, yes, done the steps of like I found kind of my North stars explored your money journey, like think back to like, oh, this is people never do. If you're like what is my earliest money memory? It's kind of hard to come up with. Like you need to like take a little time on it so that one's really important. Or you can, even if it's not maybe your earliest, just important money moments that you might have had, a lot of times these will happen in your adolescence, early adulthood even, where you're like, wow, that is really interesting, that's really impacted me.

Speaker 2: 42:17

I remember for me, when I was doing some of this exploration, it took me a long time to want to invest because I equated investing to gambling. I was like that's really scary, it's so unknown. And when I did some more exploration on it, I remember specifically standing in my dad's kitchen. He came home, he was just being an ass and I was like what is going on? My parents were divorced, whatever, and he was being a dick. And he finally opened the fridge, grabbed a beer and he was like I lost $80,000 today in the stock market.

Speaker 2: 42:49

And to me I was like 16, 17 maybe, and I just remember being like I had a job, so I understood money a little bit, I understood how much I was making and that kind of stuff, but I remember being like $80,000, that's so much effing money to lose in one day. And in that moment, I decided the stock market is gambling and I knew nothing. I knew nothing about his portfolio. I knew nothing about what that meant. That was as little context as what I just gave you. That's what I had, and so, for me, I was like I'm not going to do that, I'll just save my way to wealth, which is not possible, and I won't get into the logistics of that but but investing is truly like how you get there Right. And so I look back and actually after I was like exploring this memory a little bit more, I was like, oh my God, that was during the 2008, 2009 financial crisis.

Speaker 1: 43:43

That's what I was thinking, yeah.

Speaker 2: 43:45

Yes, and so, and it didn't even hit me in that moment and like it was like this memory like kept having to like resurface for me, for me to even like do the timeline and everything. And I was like, oh, of course, cause there was a huge dip in a matter of a day, like you know, whatever. And so, again, I knew nothing about what that meant. I like you know whatever. And so, again I I knew nothing about what that meant. I still haven't talked to him about it, but it took it really really, and at no fault of his own, he wasn't like deliberately trying to be like I'm going to really really not talk to my kid about investing. You know, it was just like that's how it happened, but it did.

Speaker 2: 44:17

It took me a really long time for me to understand, like, oh, it wasn't gambling, it just the market crashed. That's going to happen. We're bound to see a recession every at least decade or so. So and so that's a story that I came up with.

Speaker 2: 44:33

So when somebody is trying to figure out these steps, I would say first yeah, have some people in your level of awareness, start creating those North Stars, because that's the fun part, right, it's like to create those goals and really have those visualizations of what you saw from your parents and the people around you and the comparisons that you might've been making to yourself and your peers and things like that. That's really important. But then it's a matter of like doing those like logistical things where we want every single person, every single person on the planet, should have a high yield savings account, like that's one of the very best steps because we want to start creating, you know, these places for your money to go and do some work for you. So, yeah, I guess that would be my, my, my kind of steps that answer your question.

Speaker 1: 45:32

No, it does, and I actually, and like so many people, don't know about high yield savings account.

Speaker 2: 45:38

I know, I know.

Speaker 1: 45:39

And I learned about them two years ago and was like what, this is a thing, why does not? Like I mean, you're not taught this. So like why would everybody know? But I was thinking when you were talking about this I was like, oh, I bet this was 08, 09. Because I remember that. I was in high school then too, and I remember hearing stories. Obviously, I have no understanding of the financial world at all, but I remember hearing people talking about how people were losing their entire retirement. They lost everything.

Speaker 2: 46:17

And I remember in that thinking, retirement's not a guaranteed thing and so many of the stories that were created out of that were well, if they lost their entire savings, why should I save my money? Why should I invest my money? Money is meant to be spent and that is the core in which so many people had that belief. Because we saw how our parents, you know, were quote-unquote, like loyal to the stock market or whatever, if you know, if that was something that you witnessed but but that's where money, like you, can't take it to the grave. Money's meant to be spent. That comes out of that a lot, a lot and that it's just like connecting the pieces.

Speaker 1: 46:54

You're like, yeah, okay, that was. That was when it was like, oh, money's not safe, right, like it's not, there's not a way you can like save it and it'd be dependable. I know that's a lot of people.

Speaker 1: 47:06

They're like I mean, why am I going to be miserable? And there was like the two sides to it, so it's like either I've heard, like people in our own age group talk about how that there's this belief that you know like, why am I going to sacrifice and be miserable now and I'm not even guaranteed it's going to be there? I watched a lot of people lose their retirement, so I'm going to be miserable now to like, lose it later. And you're just like I mean, there was a lot there like you're like you know 2020 put a lot of mental health trauma in a lot of places and you're like, ah, the 0809 trauma to a lot of people. We got a lot of money stories that are subconscious at this point that we haven't taken a step to pause and like, where did this even come from?

Speaker 2: 47:57

There's a way to look and I'm not even going to again, this is like a little more advanced but like there is a way to look at the market in the last hundred years, like you can quite literally see the graph of like the dips and the ebbs and the flows, and it's really interesting to see, like the date in which that happened is is very likely, the date in which my dad did that thing, right, um, same is true for, like when the pandemic happened, like March 2020, there's a huge dip in the market and and then it recovered. It actually recovered quite quickly, which is quite amazing. But, um, thank you, taylor Swift. But honestly, it's really interesting to see. And that's why we always say if you are interested in investing, do not time the market.

Speaker 2: 48:46

The best time to invest was yesterday and if you haven't started, the second best time is today, because it doesn't matter if we're in a boom, in a bust, whatever, if you are a long-term investor and that is what we are I'm assuming most of your listeners are not 50 plus, right no, you're long-term investors in it for the long haul.

Speaker 2: 49:06

And actually what we always say is those busts, those downturns, are actually such a good time to buy because the market can recover really quickly and that's a really good chance to be like oh my gosh, let's get some money going because it's working for you that way. Again, this is a little advanced, but the sooner you can get in and you can literally start investing with $1. It's not a complicated thing, but you can, and it's so important that if truly you want to build wealth, that's the way to do it. And we got here through high yield savings account, and high yield savings accounts are wonderful. They're awesome. It's a really great way to keep your money safe for that emergency fund of however much it is for you that you feel comfortable with, and there's a way to calculate all that out. But the next step, then, is to really making sure you want your money invested for long-term stuff. You just do.

Speaker 1: 50:04

Like you want it working for you.

Speaker 2: 50:06

Totally.

Speaker 1: 50:07

That's it. I love that. And so I feel like we were just kind of like there's so much here and it's so interesting, and you're just like people don't talk about it, like we need, we just need to normalize having money conversations and, you know, like share what we're learning, and that's the only way we're going to change this narrative and make it normal.

Speaker 2: 50:29

Yeah, absolutely. I always say like money dates. I have a group coaching program that I opened up because, literally since I started taking clients in July, I cannot keep. I've had a waitlist, a constant waitlist, which is awesome no complaints here, I love it.

Speaker 2: 50:43

But I was like I want to be able to reach more people and I don't have all the time in the world for the one-on-one stuff, and so I opened a group for that reason, because it's super inexpensive and I wanted people to have the opportunity to have that moment where it's like have it in their realm of like this is, you know, it comes up in their feed.

Speaker 2: 51:04

There's a way to like share your trials and tribulations, you know, like we want to hear your wins and we want you to share all of your wins and we want you to post in the group and you're like hey, I had this like financial conundrum and I need to talk it out and I need a safe place to do so, and that was one of the reasons I opened it up.

Speaker 2: 51:21

It's like I want women to have a spot where they can come and just learn about money from me. I'm in there constantly so I can answer the questions, but I don't claim to know everything. How could I? Nobody, no one person can, and so if you come and you're like I had this experience, does anybody else do that? Like awesome, yeah, you know you can have support and it's. I think a big piece that we've been missing is not having anywhere to turn to, like talk to about this kind of stuff, and so I do. I think it's really, really important to be having those conversations with yourself, with your partner and with other people you know around in your space. It's really good stuff.

Speaker 1: 51:59

I love that you created that and like saw a need for this like space and it is so true and you did, and so that is like such a great spot to like have it. I mean like just to have a safe space because some people don't in their interaction in their like world and they need that online space to be like. I can come here because you know if likely your parents tell their own like. I mean, everybody has their own money story and so if you're the one that in like is maybe like flipping the script on your money story generationally, you're not gonna be able to go to your family and talk about it. They're not gonna get it.

Speaker 2: 52:36

No, because they're not on the journey with you and they haven't probably done the work, like you're here ready, willing to do the work and understand, like, what this all means, and if somebody else hasn't quite gotten on that journey yet, it's a really hard place to pull somebody into if they're not already kind of like curious about it. You know it's like, and having those open, honest conversations, transparent conversations, you know, say with your mom or your aunt or whatever, like something like that is, is way harder than going to a community that is like a designated safe place and saying, like you know, cause it's it can. Those conversations can also become almost like accusatory, right, it's like, well, why did you not teach me? And there's, there can be some resentment there and that's a super normal feeling to feel. But we want to make sure that that's not how that conversation like it's fine to have that conversation, but we don't want it to go South, you know, and like be pointing fingers and a lot of people don't know.

Speaker 2: 53:31

But it's like women were not allowed to have their their like a credit card in their own name until 1974. Like our moms were not allowed to have a credit card in their own name right Until later in life and so, and so of course, they were not learning things from their mom Like this is something that I went through. I was like cause I did. I felt that resentment. I was like I don't understand. You know why? Why was I pushing all these student loans? Why was I? My dad was a realtor for 40 years and I had no fucking idea what. I'm sorry. I don't know if I can swear here.

Speaker 1: 54:01

I didn't know if I could.

Speaker 2: 54:03

I didn't know what a mortgage was. I was like how do people buy houses? He didn't ever teach us it was never taught, you know. And so it's such a normal. It's like almost like a grieving process a little bit. It's like where's all my money, um, but I think that's really important to know is like their money stories really matter too in what your money story has become. And so for me, like you know, once I realized that about credit cards, I was like, oh my god, of course, like it was, of course my mom had no education around it, and to that point, boys and girls are taught differently.

Speaker 2: 54:38

Like there's a lot of research to support that. Men or boys, excuse me are taught how to invest, are taught you know that kind of stuff. And women are taught save your money, spend it on, like you can't be frivolous with your money. But boys are never, ever told like, oh, you don't want to go to that basketball. Or you want to go to that basketball game, yeah, you should get tickets. Yeah, girls are constantly telling you don't need that purse, you don't need those shoes, you don't need those. You know stereotypical women things.

Speaker 1: 55:04

I mean it's just, yeah, I was like single-handedly well, we could say barbie helped too but women single-handedly like saved the economy, kept us afloat, yeah, kept us afloat in 2023 everybody is welcome. But you know, like you say that, like just you know men are never shamed about their money. Like don't spend it frivolously, whatever. Like do whatever it goes. The same thing about how taylor swift sells out these shows, sells out the stadium tour and people make fun of the fans for it. Fan base predominantly female. For one, what they're paying for it. Two, like that they're into it. And nobody says a damn word about football games.

Speaker 2: 55:49

Nope, and you're like no, they don't.

Speaker 1: 55:52

And you know I love that. You point out too that how our moms like weren't allowed to have credit cards. And you're like I remember when I bought my first house, it was like it wasn't even. It was around the same time that women were allowed to be the solo person on a mortgage, and like I bought my house alone and I was like I didn't learn that until I was going through that process like, oh, if I'd have been born 30 years earlier, this wouldn't have been allowed to be a thing. And so it's like, yes, of course we weren't taught this. So like the reminder to give yourself grace, but also knowing that we have to have these conversations and step into this uncomfortable land of sharing what we're learning about it and having this conversation with people, because we're flipping it and we're changing it. Like we're at the point where it's going to change, like hopefully not to get into the dicey political land that we're in right now with, but hopefully we're going to continue in that direction, you know.

Speaker 2: 56:50

Yes, that's the goal, right, yes and so, and so if you're and it does, it can get it can feel really heavy. Like, not all of us can be Taylor Swift, we, just. You know it's not an option. So you know, fine, not all of us can be producers of a Barbie movie. Fine, but from an individual level, and to like, bring it back down to earth is like you have.

Speaker 2: 57:14

You are only in control of you, right? You're the person you live with every single day, and that is true for and I do a lot of couples work and it's interesting to see the dynamic between couples. And remember that if you are the person that's like I want to take control of our finances, but I don't know what they're making, or we split things differently, or we don't talk about it, or whatever, you have to be the one that takes control of what you have control over and start making better decisions, and I guarantee the people around you will start following suit. And a good way to do that is lead with vulnerability, Like, hey, I just realized I really don't know much about money, or I really feel like I've made some poor money decisions have you ever felt that way? And then that can be a really good opening instead of it doesn't feel so accusatory.

Speaker 2: 57:58

Again, it doesn't feel, and you can have that conversation with your best friend, with your partner, anybody in your life that you feel safe and comfortable with, is a really good spot to feel like, hey, I'm interested in learning about this. What do you know? Do you know anything about it? Because that's the other thing. You never know other people's journeys. You never know what they say. Your very best friend in the world will most likely tell you all about her sex life, but she is not going to tell you about her money, at least not until you directly try and have that conversation. It's not like we walk through the door like, oh God, I just spent X or my Z on this and I just my credit card debt is over my head and like we don't.

Speaker 1: 58:41

that just doesn't happen, it doesn't come up right. It's just like let's go grab a glass of wine, like let's talk about this a little bit. No, I love that. And just you know, I've been thinking too, as you're saying, that um move, big movements that have ever happened were from small conversations that people had right over time. It's those small things and I'm like time is just flying by. I looked down and was like I do have one more question. Do we have time for one more question, because you did mention it, like circling back to you know, starting to follow people on Instagram just to kind of get that threaded into your feed.

Speaker 1: 59:11

If it's something this space is new for you. I do kind of want curious your thoughts, because this is like in the money landscape, because I do follow like several different like finance accounts and people are always different on their priorities. Of the first step, you have the camp that's like you're not allowed to live, breathe, do anything until you pay off all of your debt. Pay off your debt, then save money and then you can invest and then you can have a life. You know if that works out for you. And then you have the other camp who's like I mean, save emergency fund, pay off your debt and you can invest the whole time. And you're like you start getting conflicting messages and they're like Lindsay, everybody is saying something different and I feel like it can, and that makes the trying to step into this space very overwhelming for people who are trying to do it alone, because you get so many mixed messages and so like do you have any tips there how to navigate that water?

Speaker 2: 1:00:17

Yeah, it's funny. I was thinking about this literally yesterday and I was trying to understand, because I think what you're talking about is so many people hear of Dave Ramsey like he's like the money guy, like whatever. Right, that's a place that it's really common for people to start is Dave Ramsey and now his daughter and their team, and whatever start is Dave Ramsey and now his daughter and their team and whatever. And his advice isn't necessarily bad, but he uses really shameful language To your point. It's very much like you should never get a latte. I think he has a quote, something like if you have debt, like consumer debt especially and I'm getting the actual quote wrong, but you'll get the gist is, if you have consumer debt, the only reason you should be stepping foot into a restaurant is to be there to wash dishes, like that's the type of shit he says. Or I'm like that's people don't need to hear that, you know, like that's just, that's rough.

Speaker 2: 1:01:05

But then you have people like Tori Dunlap, who is the author of the financial. Feminist is her book and she's her first hundred K, I think, on Instagram. Feminist is her book and she's, um, her first 100k, I think, yes, on instagram. I love tori in a lot of ways I think she's awesome, but one of like the, the legs that she stands on is like down with dave ramsey. He's terrible. Blah, blah, blah. And at the end of the day, if you look at kind of like their like programs of like how to go through the, the motions of all this Really really similar stuff, and I think what's happening is people love polarization. We say we don't like it, but if you are on social media, you are following people that have really strong opinions on one side of the pendulum or the other and that can come across anything we were talking about, but especially true for personal finance. So she posted something about how Dave Ramsey was making a terrible statement or whatever, and it ended up that she got a lot of likes and she got a lot of views and she got a lot of the vanity metrics like shut up, like oh, we like this girl down with Dave Ramsey, we want that. And in reality it's like we don't need to be that polarized. We need to to stand on common ground and really the end goal for both of them is to get people in good financial positions, and these are just two right Like.

Speaker 2: 1:02:23

This is true for a lot of people, and so, basically, I'm making your point of like yes, there's a lot of that, and what isn't being said on on some of these platforms is like your journey is unique to you. It is absolutely a hundred percent unique to you. Yes, you can like I even call it like the money map, right Is like save that thousand dollars, get some emergency money like kind of under your belt and then, you know, move into debt payoff and you can choose different plans to how you do that. Right, like that's kind, do that. That's really how Dave Ramsey came up with his. He calls them the seven baby steps or whatever, and it's not a bad place to start. But you have to also know that your unique journey is just that it's yours and you have to decide.

Speaker 2: 1:03:15

Your age matters a lot in that. Again, if you're 30, you should be investing now because the market is going to work for you. That's huge. But if you're 50 or if you're 15, that's going to be a different narrative. We're going to tell you where your money should be going. It might be a different spot. The allocation is going to be different. If your interest rates are kind of all over the place, right. High interest debt and low interest debt makes a big, big difference on how if you should be saving and investing and throwing money at debt, or if you should just be throwing money at debt or like that. All matters.

Speaker 2: 1:03:51

The mathematics do matter, and so it can get really convoluted, but the broader sense and as you kind of have more people in your realm is simply that long-term investing is boring, it's unsexy. You'll hear that all the time and that's the route to go right. Historically, you can't guarantee returns blah, blah, blah, but historically, like we. Historically like can't guarantee returns, blah, blah, blah, but like historically, that is true.

Speaker 2: 1:04:17

Whether you're like, yeah, I have debt, but I actually don't feel too suffocated by it, okay, fine, then like that's a different than the person that's coming in. Like I can't breathe, I can't think clearly because this debt is like a barricade for me, like it's just blocking everything I want to do. That's different, and this is why money is so emotional is because your goals, your dreams, everything is different from other people. The way you feel about your purchasing choices are different from other people. So there's not just like a one size fits all. His is right, hers is right, theirs is right, it doesn't matter, fits all. His is right, hers is right, theirs is right, doesn't matter. Um, so it's hard because it doesn't. It's not like a great like. This is what you should do instead, but knowing, having that knowledge of like people get a reaction with polarization. People get a reaction on social media with having a really firm stance, with their foot held in one camp, even if it's like you know. Do you know what I?

Speaker 1: 1:05:14

mean so I get it. That's hard. Yeah, it's the perfect answer, though. I mean really because it's coming back to your journey, is unique to you and ultimately, these people have the two end goals and and it's really arming people, because do a lot of people do forget, or not aware that social media, like people bank on polarization? Um, they don't like it was. Also social media blew up so quickly. It's another area that not a lot of people are really educated on, on how to navigate, and so you know like it's just really empowering them to be like hey, look look at it this way, they're very polarized. Take what you want that fits your unique situation, leave what doesn't work and don't get so trapped in. This is the only way to do it.

Speaker 2: 1:06:08

Or only one person is right. Lattes is like a buzzword in the finance world. As you start doing more exploration on this same thing, some people are like you can never have a latte. Avocado toast is ruining us. And then other people are like have all the lattes you want.

Speaker 2: 1:06:17

And again I fall smack dab in the middle of that because I'm like if you are having lattes, I literally one day ran the numbers because I was like I hear this all the time, but what does that mean? So I literally calculated out how much my lattes would be and, frankly, if I was having a latte every single day, it would stifle me from doing things that I really, really want. But if I want a latte out and I'm out and about running errands, I want to grab a coffee. I do because it's fine, but I certainly don't do it every single day and I do it when it feels good and when I'm like yeah, I can spare five bucks today, I don't care, fine. So it's not like Again, it's just like it's one of those reaction things where it's like oh, it's that clickbait, never have a latte.

Speaker 2: 1:07:00

People are like what the hell is this guy talking about? And then other people are like drink all the lattes ever and it's confirmation bias. You're like, oh, I want a latte out every single day, so I'm going to click on this one and see what they're saying. And so just remembering that kind of stuff is like. Just remembering that kind of stuff is like there's not personal finance, is a sea of gray, like there is no black, there's no white. It is a sea of gray. And you really just have to decide for yourself what feels good for you. And that's why I would say, like, so heavily focused on those North stars, so heavily focused on really understanding yourself, what you want to feel, and be, and do and and stay in your lane with that Like that's how you're going to like move that needle. It's not by like getting really firm and really like, oh, I have to do this, cause we know restriction never, never takes you very far.

Speaker 1: 1:07:52

Well, Lindsay, I just want to say thank you so much for this whole conversation. It has been so informative and empowering and just all the things. Thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:08:01

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:08:03

So if the listener is like I need to get in Lindsay's world, I need to work on things. I want to talk to her about finance. Where can they connect with you?

Speaker 2: 1:08:11

Yes, thank you for asking. So I'm coping with Lindsay on Instagram. That's mostly where I am. I am still not in like the whole automation thing. I'm just like I like having personal contact with people, so it's always me responding. I try and respond to my DMs as fairly frequently, same with my email, so it's just me, I'm a solo gal doing all that. So come find me at Coping with Lindsay. That's my website also, copingwithlindsaycom. I have a free investing guide and it's pretty good.

Speaker 2: 1:08:42

If I do say so myself, I've gotten really really good feedback on it. Just for people that are like I really want to learn about this stuff and have it broken down into language that's really comprehensible Is that a word? Comprehensive, but just being able to understand it, and so, yes, so I wrote that up and that's on my website, copingwithlindsaycom. And then, if people are interested in joining the group, it's currently on sale. I don't know when this episode is coming out, but even so, if it's not on sale, come find me and I'll put it on sale for you, because that's all I care about is, like, I just want people in so they can start this.

Speaker 2: 1:09:18

If you're hoping to do the group thing, which can be intimidating because you're like again that like vulnerable, you're naked, whatever kind of thing. It's not like I'm asking you to put salary transparency out there. It's just like we're going to start working on these things slowly but surely. It's $39 a month. It's really, really affordable. It's like one dinner out to make this choice instead and get it choosing. But if you're interested working one-on-one with me, I do have some openings coming up relatively soon, and so you can always find me and inquire more about that. But again, instagram is the easiest. I post really randomly when it feels fun for me. I post on there about things and how I feel, and you can learn all about lattes and wealth because I made a post about it, because I was like I'm so over this?

Speaker 1: 1:10:03

Yes, and I will link everything in the show notes. So while I'll be there, I'll link to your free guide and everything will be there, so easy to access. But thank you so much again. This was great time, so thank you good, good, thank you.

Speaker 1: 1:10:26

I cannot wait to hear your takeaways from today's episode. I would love it and I know Lindsay would love it too if you screenshot this, this episode, share it on Instagram, tag both of us with your takeaways. If you're listening to this and you're like wow, I know, like somebody who needs to hear this, send a link to this episode right now, like before you go do anything else, stop what you're doing. Send them a link to this episode and be like you have to listen to this because it is time we change the conversation around money. And you know, I'm going to ask you, if you haven't, please leave a review, a five-star rating. That's just a huge way to say thank you to me and show your support for this podcast. And it's free. Just takes 30 seconds to do it. So I truly appreciate that so much that you would do that for me and that you're sharing this with women you know need to hear this conversation, and I'm just going to be fully transparent with you. We talked a lot in this conversation about how we need to normalize conversations around money, and money is not taboo and I'm so excited for all the things that Lindsay's offering. Like we mentioned in there, I met her in 2022. So we've known each other for a while now the time of this recording it's 2024, known her for a couple of years and I am so excited, Like she was talking, and I was like you know what there's always room to grow.

Speaker 1: 1:11:44

I talk about on here all the time, about how I invested in therapy and I was in therapy for two years. I've invested in a mastermind. I've invested in various courses, masterclasses, workshops, you name it. I'm always trying to learn. I buy books all the time. I'm always trying to learn and grow as a human. And so when she was talking about this, I was like you know what? I firmly believe that there's always room to grow. And so we recorded this at the end in december of 2023 when this is coming out it's a little while later like at this point in time, I am already working with lindsey and like I'm just being transparent here, like I hired her to help me with my finances, not because I'm like, oh my gosh, I have a lot of shame around.

Speaker 1: 1:12:30

It's like no, like I know I'm doing good, but I want to be better and there's room to grow and I know I have things to learn. I'm not an expert in this space and I know she knows more than me and she's somebody that I trust. So I'm like, yes, I'm going to hire somebody that I trust to help me speed up the process of accomplishing the goals that I have for my life, and so I just want to share that with you. If you're like on the fence, like, reach out to her, join her community the $39 a month, like that membership is amazing and like that price is amazing to have access to that and just a community of women who you can come, talk to, who get it and have the same goals as you. And if you're like, oh, I don't want to talk about it, but like I want to work with her, like, trust me, if there's a little nudge in you, that's like I want to reach out, I need to reach out to her, do it. And even if it's just to say thank you so much for coming on and talking about this that I needed to hear this conversation, even that. But I really hope you found so much value in this. And if you're loving these money conversations, let me know, dm me on Instagram, let me know that you are loving these conversations and we'll have more of them. It's having these conversations with you how I help discern who to have on and what conversations to have and what topics to talk about on the show, and if this is something you're like let's lean into this, then, like, we'll lean in. I just need to hear it from you, some feedback. So thank you so much again for listening to today's episode. I can't wait to hear your takeaways because, lord knows, I have so many, and I want to encourage you to take the next step in whatever that looks like, whatever you feel like, one thing that Lindsay shared on this call on this, on this call on this episode. Take one thing that stood out to you and implement that one thing for the next 30 days and just see how it goes. I'm rooting for you and I can't wait to talk to you soon.

Speaker 1: 1:14:32

First, I want to say thank you so much for listening to today's episode. It truly means so much to me that you are here and that I got to be a small part of your day. I have three things to tell you before you go, though. First, please rate and review this podcast. It truly helps this podcast grow and get the message out and is such a simple thing that you could do to support the show. Thank you for doing that.

Speaker 1: 1:14:56

Second, share this episode with somebody right now that you know needs to hear it, or take a screenshot, tag me on social media and let me know what you loved about this episode. I love getting to connect with you. And the third last thing I have is I cannot let you go without sending you off into the rest of your day with the reminder that I want you to always remember you are worthy, you have value, you get to take up space in this world simply because you exist. Don't let anyone, including yourself, convince you otherwise, and if that idea or vision for your life is in you, it is for you. Living with this phrase in mind in today's world is such a truly audacious thing for you to do so. Until the next time I talk to you, remember, have the audacity.