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Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
2024: Ranked #1 Law Podcast
Host: Tyler Owen and Clint McNear discussing topics, issues, and stories within the law enforcement community. TMPA is the voice of Texas Law Enforcement, focused on protecting those who serve. Since 1950, we have been defending the rights and interests of Texas Peace Officers by providing the best legal assistance in the country, effective lobbying at state and local levels, affordable training, and exemplary member support. As the largest law enforcement association in Texas, TMPA is proud to represent 33,000 local, county and state law enforcement officers.
Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
#046- "I Don't Want to Shoot You"
Get ready for an engaging episode of our podcast as we welcome patrol officer Zane Daniel, who shares a riveting tale that was once cut short due to technical glitches. Zane takes us on a journey, discussing a major incident that he faced on his first night back from the 2020 Thanksgiving holiday.
During our conversation, we tackle the much-debated topic of whether a college degree should be a prerequisite for police officers. We delve into the importance of life experience and street smarts in the field and how they can often be more valuable than a degree. We also share a chilling incident involving an armed suspect and highlight the key role played by a trusted partner in making the difference between a tragedy and a success story.
This episode is packed with first-hand accounts, personal stories, and insightful discussions, which will give you a better understanding of law enforcement. Don't miss out on this opportunity to gain valuable knowledge and insights from a seasoned officer like Zane Daniel. Tune in now!
Listen for of-the-moment insider insights, framed by the rapidly changing social and...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
I was okay, here we go. And he zeros in on me and I tell him man, I don't want to shoot you, I don't want to shoot you. And right after I said, that is when he lunches at me he makes just that last little effort. He's coming to me.
Speaker 2:Hey blue grit podcast listeners, we're back this week. Uh, your co-host Clint McNear, and.
Speaker 3:Tyler Owen. Welcome back, by the way, I missed you. I missed you. You weren't uh, you weren't able to make it. You had a meeting up in the Dallas for much place when we had, uh, the day from Bear County on him. Yeah, I felt, I felt, uh felt like my twin was gone, Felt abandoned. Kevin filled in I mean, if I'm gonna have anybody or we're gonna have anybody fill in, Kevin Lawrence to fill in to debate, anybody would be the best one also. But it's felt, uh felt, felt naked without you. Yeah, You're like my little security blanket. It does. Before we get teary eyed, before we jump into this, you guys hit that like button and uh subscribe button. But yeah, it's good to have you back like subscribe.
Speaker 2:Go to all the audio platforms. Give us a review. Give us a Google review or Amazon, whatever platform is your flavor of choice. Jump on there and give us a review, if you don't mind, or hit in the comments down below what episode with some cool feedback this morning from the last few episodes people text and share with their favorite episode has been so far shooting the comments down below. Which your favorite episode is? Um. And also, if you're watching one of our podcasts and there's some content that you want to take and share on your podcast, or make your own um, if you'll hashtag blue grit podcast, use our material away as you want to.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:We don't mind, we don't. Who do? We got onto today.
Speaker 3:That's a pretty special guest, john Bellini, our board of director of TNPA, and he brought on a friend that we recorded during conference and had some, uh, had some difficulty, uh, laptop crashed and uh, you know, just standard stuff that happens on the road. So, you guys, welcome the blue grit podcast and I'll let you intro your guests and, uh, man, welcome, this is your first time on it.
Speaker 4:Yes, sir, it is. Thank you. What do you think? It's pretty nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, what was your comment earlier.
Speaker 4:Yeah, we're not going to say that Cause.
Speaker 3:I know where those Be brought around later. And no, no, no, no, no exactly.
Speaker 4:Exactly so well, I brought brain Zane Daniel with me from San Angeles we're both from San Angelo police department, I'm a sergeant down there and Zane's a patrol officer and he had a story to tell back at conference and, like you said, there was a little bit of a technical issue and it was fun it was fun.
Speaker 3:We had a great time. Yeah, we had. We were, drinks were flowing and and, uh, you know it was great story.
Speaker 2:So anytime you can share an old fashioned and tell a story, it's not a bad day, and it was.
Speaker 3:it was actually we stayed. For those that know, uh, me and clan, on a personal level, we were, we were drinking, uh, and having a good time, as as every conference, and uh, it stayed professional, right, I mean, we were, we, uh, we have a good balance of doing that. I didn't have any angels in me.
Speaker 2:Um, I'll throw that out there for those that know that story, but and John's not a just a sergeant, san Angelo PD, you're also a regional director on team PA board.
Speaker 4:Yes, sir, this is my second year now. Nice, nice, nice.
Speaker 3:I thought I'd been longer than that.
Speaker 4:Well, I've been hanging around for a long time.
Speaker 2:But you're like the hanging around. He finally got patched in a couple years.
Speaker 4:I was. I went to every board meeting the year before I ran, um to kind of make sure that I was prepared for the position and um. So I went to all the board meetings on my own dime and then it was time to run.
Speaker 3:So and you, uh, you replaced James Gresham, uh, Captain Gresham with uh Stephenville police department and he just recently retired. Congratulations, captain Gresham, on your retirement. That's who you replaced on the board. Yes, sir, yeah, I could have sworn. You've been around or been on the board longer than that, and you're right. You were. You were also not just uh, you can dive off into that A viewer of the committee chair. Uh for the scholarships for many, many, many years.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so I attended my first conference in 2013. Um, and Kevin Lawrence thought I was somebody's kid, um, and from that conference, has lovingly called me, uh, 21 jump street, or just jump street every single club.
Speaker 3:Yes, you do age. Well, I will say that you do age quite well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um, like I said, it's it's been a while, but, yeah, my third first conference was in 2013. Um, and I kind of just wanted to see how I could get involved and I jumped on the scholarship committee 2014,. Uh, did that for a couple of years and I was asked to take that over as the chairman. Uh, and then I ran it until, uh, well, until I got on the board and handed it over to Bertha and uh, so, yeah, so I've been hanging around for a while and and been around the board, cause, of course, before all the technology changes in COVID, we did things a little bit of the older, the older way at the time and you know, so I was down at the office and, you know, involved in some stuff and uh, then then we finally were able to get to the 21st century and and got it, uh, on the computer and everything else.
Speaker 4:But yeah, no, it's, it's been a, it's been a fun ride and it was time to see if I could actually get out there and do a little bit more good, and that's how I ran for the board and and I got it and, uh, have been having fun ever since.
Speaker 3:That's what's so fascinating to me is, is our conference. There's so much really, uh discussed and, uh, you know, done at our conferences with the committees, the company, the, you know, the board of directors, just like your committee. I mean, we've got several committees that that that are selected there at the conference and and they're selected mainly because of the ones that attend and, and you had attended conference. Uh, I've often the kind of what it feels like to be on the committee, just as a member, cause I get asked all the time and I'm sure you do too, and Clint, about how you can get more involved with TNPA, and that's one great way, uh, that our members can feel more involved about the decision making process and who we are as an organization. Uh, and there's so many benefits, too, with being a member, and that's that's a huge part of it, I think.
Speaker 4:Yeah, um and so, and that's exactly what I tell people too, and they say, hey, I want to be a little more involved in TNPA, I want to come to a meeting. Or, when you go to conference, sign up for something, uh, you know, start out in the scholarship committee. They're always looking for people on that one, because the amount of work that that one is, um, you know, used to, we it was, you would basically miss most of the conference. You were there but you weren't able to pay attention. Um and uh, we finally got to the point where we stopped making all the physical copies and, you know, walking around with a tote box of of scholarship uh applications, and then we uh even got to the point to where I was sending the flash drives out a couple of weeks beforehand so they could, you know, look at all this stuff and be prepared beforehand so we could at least attend some of the training and actually learn something from it.
Speaker 4:Um and so, that one was a lot of work and a lot of people were turned off and not wanting to participate in the scholarship committee because of how much you missed. Um, and I think we have a plan this year, or I'd say we. It's not my uh responsibility anymore, but I think a plan has been put in place this year where they're going to be able to make those selections, like the day before or the conference starts. That's good, um, and so they can actually not miss any of the conference and actually participate, um.
Speaker 4:But yeah, the other, the other committees as well, you know, legislative committee, um that was another thing that they really piqued my interest and so I was invited to come down to Austin. I dealt with this workers comp issue back in 2016. Um, and it wasn't as bad as it sounded, uh, but I was. I was screwed around by the doctor for a little bit in the beginning. Uh, really ended up not being the city's fault. It was really just the doctor was not wanting to order the certain tests that needed to be done and um, so I was asked to come up and we were. Of course, we've been pushing workers comp reform for how many years now? And uh, so I was asked to come up and I've testified it at the uh and like house or Senate and stuff like that. But coming up and seeing those things and getting to meet the local reps um, like drew Darby, which now I see them all around town Um, he's always around, moving around somewhere.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I might have yelled at him once, uh, not realizing who he was. But you know the building was on fire, hey man, you got to get out.
Speaker 4:Um and then, uh, charles Perry from Lubbock, the Senator for that area, and meeting them was really really cool and again it's kind of really like, okay, this is, there's really something that can go on here. They're doing really really good things and I want to be involved with this group and do something about it and the and the and the latest days that we were talking about me and Clint.
Speaker 3:I always enjoyed coming down. This was before I was a field rep. Uh, that's kind of. Clint got me introduced whenever he was my rep in East Texas and uh, man, what a good time it's it's. And we and there's been some discussion uh, internally and externally with TNPA about the benefits of TNPA doing, uh, the capital days and flooding the hallways with law enforcement and what the benefit and uh, what the non-benefit is that, you know, for us doing that. But man, it's, uh, it's crucially a part of that and so there's been some discussion about bringing it back. So, and it'll be up to you guys and the board of directors and our executive staff and whether that needs to happen or not and uh, but whenever I participated in it, I really enjoyed it. Uh, really enjoyed seeing the process, really enjoyed to get interacting with the field reps. Uh, you know that was when, again, clint was my field rep in and we got to hang out and um anyway, yeah so, and you always got to prepare the next generation.
Speaker 4:We try to tell these people to roll.
Speaker 3:You're right about that, yeah.
Speaker 4:You know we're not going to be here forever. Somebody has to be able to, or be willing to, step up.
Speaker 3:But you're still 19.
Speaker 4:So yeah, I mean, I guess.
Speaker 2:Well, you got jumped in. You got jumped in after being a hang around at new board member orientation. Did they tell you what? You get jumped in. But you to get out, you get. You get jumped out Bloody out. That's right. Yeah, yeah, that's good.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 4:At the local level. Like I said, I jumped in super early in my career and uh, you know, but eventually I've got to pass that on to somebody else. I tried to a couple of years ago like, okay, it's time for me to, you know, kind of give the local there some free rain and go do my own thing, and uh. And then I've got back into it recently and and it's a sink or swim yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it always is it always?
Speaker 4:is so cool? Who the?
Speaker 1:hell is Zane Zane? That is a loaded question.
Speaker 4:It depends on who you ask.
Speaker 1:It depends on who you ask. Uh no, I've been a cop in San Angelo for about five years now.
Speaker 2:Grew up, there Were we born. Tell us, tell us, tell us about the day of. We don't want to hear about conception, but tell us about where you grew up and yeah, so I'm grew up in San Angelo.
Speaker 1:My folks uh my mom is from out further west met my uh dad at Soul Ross State University out in Alpons, oh nice.
Speaker 3:God's country. Shout out Alpine PD chief Darrell Lo Lo Hoesta. I can I always pronounce his name?
Speaker 2:So you said, kind of sexy, hey, I'll work on that at at at Escosa.
Speaker 1:They were at Soul Ross got hitched. Uh, dad started with a Del Rio PD and they lived in Sanderson for a while thereafter and then it was actually at a conference. You know, we were just talking about conference and hooking up and getting it, Not that kind of hooking up Hold on Hold, on See that conference yeah A lot of TNPA babies out there.
Speaker 2:There are a lot of TNPA babies out there.
Speaker 1:Making connections with other cops, you know learning, you know getting involved and all these other things. They made a connection. All right, made a connection. Uh ended up. Dad went to uh Task Force, a drug interdiction task force, out in West Texas.
Speaker 3:He was a TFO.
Speaker 1:He was a field supervisor All right, throwing it out there.
Speaker 2:He may need a moment in a cigarette, now that you said TFOs.
Speaker 1:He was a canine TFO supervisor.
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 1:He was a super TFO. There you go, Um, and then that's when I come along a little while after and they decided they didn't want to raise me in Sanderson Texas. They wanted to raise me somewhere a little bit bigger, a little bit more access to things, and uh, moved us to San Angelo.
Speaker 2:There's some big deer in Sanderson Texas.
Speaker 1:I'm very aware they're still ranch with my name on it out there somewhere. We'll talk offline. We can I can get some deer hunting done.
Speaker 2:We need to cold call Sanderson. We do.
Speaker 1:And uh been to St Angelo ever since. Dad was the cop there for 26 years. Where did he work at what agency? St Angelo PD. Okay, yeah Same agency, then Same agency. Yeah, he was around from when John was coming up I was, you know. He bounced around within the department and ended up in training towards the end of his career with us. Um, when I was in the academy, he was one of the instructors while I was there?
Speaker 3:How was that? How was that being in the academy, with your dad being the instructor? How did that feel For me?
Speaker 1:it was like going back to school. Yeah, my mom just happens to be the assistant principal at the local high school that I also went through. Hi guys, so, uh, it was pretty par for the course. Yeah, uh, my folks were just kind of everywhere.
Speaker 3:You know, it's crazy is is St Angelo PD has so much history really with TNPA. Uh, we had the late big Brock that worked at St Angelo PD, our current deputy executive director, mitch Landry. Uh, and then, and then you and then who else?
Speaker 4:Uh, johnny Rodriguez, irma Rodriguez.
Speaker 1:Jay Rod.
Speaker 4:Um yeah, jay Rod is a past president for TNPA and Irma when and Johnny's name is actually in Irma's name is on this building. Oh, wow, um, it's on the plaque that's in the in the front that when he was president um, at the time, I believe, um, and then Irma was the region five director. Um, yeah, they used to have conferences in St Angelo.
Speaker 1:There's no way in hell that we could have a conference in.
Speaker 4:St Angelo anymore, because we could try it.
Speaker 3:I guess yeah, no you're a lot of babies in your parents definition of of a bigger place than Sanderson.
Speaker 4:I mean, I mean, come on Like.
Speaker 1:I mean Sanderson's about the size of an ass. So yeah, yeah, it's the thriving metropolis of St Angelo will have to do, I suppose.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my dad was a cop growing up. Did you know most of your life you were probably going to be a cop growing up. Did I been a cop? Or was it one of those Cause for me? I was not headed towards being a cop. Um, I went in the Marines and that turned me around. Otherwise I would have been riding in police cars, not in the front seat. So I grew up around cops. They were in my house every day. My dad was a homicide detective. There was cops in my house hanging out drinking beer every day. I didn't really think that was my path, Until I really woke up one day and thought I better grow up and figure this crap out really quick.
Speaker 1:That's, yeah, that's that's about right, that's, I mean. Same story, different chapter. Um, no, I've grown up. I thought I was going to be, uh, an academic. I thought I was going to go to college and grad school. Actually, it was a religious studies major, of all things. Uh, yeah, I had the idea of going to seminary and being a. I wanted to do overseas mission work and stuff like that. Uh, turns out, they still expect you to go to class and learn things. Yeah, even if you're going to work for God. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a minor detail.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was a minor detail, and uh, I wasn't very good at that minor detail. That wasn't really my thing. I was a. I would rather have a good story than a make good grades, apparently so college-worthy. Uh was a struggle for me.
Speaker 2:How old were you when you got hired at San Angelo?
Speaker 1:25. So I, uh, I messed around a long time, you know, trying to go to college and trying to get that degree. Um it was. It wasn't until I moved back to San Angelo to go to continue trying to go to school. That, uh, I really kind of made the decision that every male influence in my life growing up was a cop or cop adjacent. So how do I, you know you're trying to figure out your way in the world and where are you going to go? Well, I've got this guy and this guy and this guy that I trust and they all work at the same place. Well, maybe I should do that. And then, you know, diving a little bit deeper and went straight to the police academy.
Speaker 2:She put herself through. Or San Angelo have Academy they put you through.
Speaker 1:San Angelo's got their own Academy.
Speaker 2:We have our own Academy.
Speaker 1:So that's, nice.
Speaker 2:Went to the Academy at 25.
Speaker 1:Mm hmm and uh, that was pretty part for the course from my Academy class. Uh, we had a couple. Well, I think we only had two or three, there were 21.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow, yeah.
Speaker 1:We had a. We had a kind of an older class. There were five or six of us that were in that 25 age, and then there was a couple that were a little bit older, but we didn't have that real old guy Did y'all require?
Speaker 2:college back then.
Speaker 4:No, we still don't. Uh, man, I'm a huge fan of that, and I'll tell you why.
Speaker 2:I was the last Academy at Garland that did not require college.
Speaker 4:Uh huh.
Speaker 2:And so there was 30 of us and we were all what's a polite way to say this street smart, street smart. We'd all had multiple jobs. We'd, all you know, been in fist fights before and we'd lived life, been in trouble and been fired from jobs and had jobs and worked labor jobs. And I was the last Academy class that didn't require it. Yeah, that's it. Made good cops. Yeah, in our academies.
Speaker 2:After that, we would sit on the review board and you're interviewing a 21 or 22 year old and you're asking them hey, there's not some job history here. Well, I live with my mom and dad. I've never had a job and I'm like all right, have you? You're been lied to, you're been punched in the face? Have you ever, you know, squatted? Have you ever done any labor? Have you? Oh, no, living my mom and dad like oh, my God, you're going to get eaten alive on the streets working the East end, yeah, and I I'm no disrespect to a college degree or college education at all, but I think there's some value in life experience, street experience, uh, that is missed. That is missed.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I agree. I mean, I didn't finish college. I, uh, I was going to college to be a teacher and a coach and I'm fortunate I count myself fortunate I was working for the school district at the time. I'm driving a school bus, which back then, $10 an hour was a lot of money, um, and it worked great with my college schedule.
Speaker 4:I, you know, when I did my classes and did all that and, uh, set them up, I was able to drive the route in the morning and go to class, then go drive the route in the afternoon and and go from there. And so I was like, well, great, I'm getting a jumpstart on some type of retirement system, right, and um, and then realized real fast, when they cause they asked me to step in and substitute for some classes. Uh, towards the end of the semester, once and um, we were done with college for the year and I had to actually, you know, pretty much, take over the class for the last three weeks of school. And um, I was like, yeah, this is not what I thought it was going to be and this is not what I want to do. Well then, I had a crisis of, well, crap, now what?
Speaker 4:you know, and do I just stay in college and finish and get a that piece of paper and it's not going to do me any good, or do I switch it? And what the hell do I switch it to? Or, and so I was a volunteer firefighter at the time and, uh, I dispatch, was always hiring, and so that's where, that's where I started off and jumped in a dispatch.
Speaker 3:And this is y'all's opinion. I'm asking uh, we had Rhonda Lord on several episodes ago, the Godfathers uh, check it out if you haven't watched that. One Fascinating episode, probably one of the best reviews we've gotten so far. But would you consider having a college education A standard? Rhonda Lord nailed it, and he was speaking of this about law enforcement.
Speaker 3:Uh is trying to lower our standards, to basically hit the recruitment crisis, and I and I got an argument the other day with somebody uh in in in the labor world that considered having a degree a standard, and I said I don't, I don't think, I don't consider that a standard.
Speaker 3:How many guests have we had on? And we've had discussions of this time and time and time again about the benefits of working in the jail, the benefits of working in dispatch, the benefits of having that law enforcement experience you can't put a prostag on that and again, military experience, military experience. There's not I'm not uh downgrading or belittling anybody that has a degree because you earned that piece of paper, but I will say this and I'll say it Tyler Owen says this on this date, at this time that that piece of paper does not train or does not make you a great employee compared to somebody else. That's just facts. I mean, it may have a requirement to go to other agencies, but I so I go back to my question. Circle back Is that a standard or is that a requirement?
Speaker 2:And that was the question that I posed to the guy the other day and the argument Thankfully it's not a state standard right now because I think you know if you're in east Texas with an agency paying $12.50 an hour and you're going to demand they have a four-year college degree.
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 2:So they have $85,000 in college debt. You're going to demand they have that college degree and then you're going to pay them $12 an hour to pay that back.
Speaker 3:What was the agency in northeast Texas? You just got through when we met me and you both Got to have the fight. What was it? 11.50 an hour? 11.75? 12.50 an hour? So for the listener out there, that's in the Metroplex or in Austin. You can't, you can't survive on that.
Speaker 2:And the judge told them they didn't really give a damn about them and so we told them they should all mass resign and go to work for Buckeys and get a $5 an hour raise.
Speaker 3:Right now, and I quote that's exactly what Clint said.
Speaker 1:Well, that's going on all over the place. It's the same thing, but no, the vast majority of it, since we don't require a college degree. There's a lot of cops that I work with that don't have. We get a lot of the military guys. We've got the Air Force base in town so people come through for training or whatever and they like the town so they stick around. They come back when they're get out of the military. But you know, there's there's goods and bads. I'm the only person in my family that doesn't have a degree, other than my dad. My dad and I are the only two. Yeah, and it's. It's how. Yeah, I think it's part of how you go about getting a degree. If you go to college and you live off mom and dad and you know, and you don't have a job, you don't work and, yeah, there's a difference in responsibilities as far as the pathway.
Speaker 1:So the standard having a degree as a standard I would disagree with. I would. You know, I worked manual labor jobs while I was in college and then, when I was like you know what I'm really, I'm really actually done with this and now I'm going to go work four hours a week and try this cop thing one more time. Yeah, thank God you did. Yeah, it turns out. It turns out I'm pretty good at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah there's a lot of value in life experience that you can't measure.
Speaker 4:There is, I mean with a college degree. I mean now there are some very good cops that have college degrees or some very good cops that don't. Yeah, I mean it's just. I regret it now.
Speaker 1:You know, I regret it now.
Speaker 4:not finishing college At least would have had a little bit different life experience. Oh, you're in the club too, but yeah, yeah, I don't have, I don't have mine.
Speaker 2:You regret not finishing, I regret not starting.
Speaker 4:I would have. I would have liked to finish, but yeah, it just didn't, it just didn't happen.
Speaker 3:I had a chance to go and I got sucked into the vacuum of love with my wife and it's pretty powerful. Yeah, yeah it was, and you know I didn't. I didn't end up going. I had a full, full rise scholarship to Hawaii University to fight in rainbows, and she's benefited you better than a college degree.
Speaker 2:110%.
Speaker 3:I definitely married up. Free ride to Hawaii, though I mean the fight in rainbows, but I'll say this shout out to anybody that attended Irving High School or goes to Irving PD we were in Ulyss and this is a rabbit trail, but it's funny. Irving High School played Ulyss and, for those that don't know, ulyss has a huge uh, tongan.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly, I was thinking of the national. They have a huge Tongan population in in in Ulyss, and for those that, I want you to imagine being a 16 year old kid, I was a starting varsity on my sophomore year and they did that dance Tongan fight the hoca.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna tell you right now Awesome, it's intimidating as hell yeah, I wanted to cry and walk off the field and say, hi guys, this was fun, we got, we got danced and we got dressed up for nothing. But, uh, that was a horrible. We got our asses handed to us and I think it was the mental aspect of getting that Tongan dance beforehand and they were huge and fast and anyway, so I didn't end it going to Hawaii they should play hoca the hoca in a briefing.
Speaker 2:We should do it like before you get run a SWAT, call yeah we should do it for conference.
Speaker 3:Heck, yeah, get everybody pumped up like the board should do it. The board should do it. Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 4:Make it happen. Well, we'll see, make it happen. We'll see how that goes. All right, design graduates academy hits street.
Speaker 2:Yup hit the street.
Speaker 1:What was that like? What year was that? That was March of 2019.
Speaker 2:So yeah, Hit patrol deep nights, deep nights.
Speaker 1:Deep. I've been on deep nights. I did some training on our. We have like a power shift, a three to three shift, but other than that I've been on deep nights. That's where I like to be, that's where the fun stuff happens. You know, for a cop, things happen. Yup, hit the streets in March 2019. So, right, when the world is about to shit the bed, yeah, and COVID is about to hit. So March 2019, get through PTO.
Speaker 4:Barely, yeah, barely barely.
Speaker 1:It was a kind of a wild time even in San Angel. We had what? Four murders in three days right there.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I was like two weeks on the street. One of them was a double. It was crazy running around learning how to be a cop. I had good. I had good training officers though I was, I was quite fortunate they were tough on me but, you know, so were my supervisors at the time.
Speaker 4:I mean that's kind of the job.
Speaker 1:It is the job that's job in the world patrol sergeant but yeah, I've never been so tired than I was on PTO, it was just mentally and physically and what you're saying is PTO.
Speaker 3:Is that the?
Speaker 1:FTO, fto, pto, training.
Speaker 4:It's just a different version. It's the San Angelo way. No, no, it's. Pto is a. It's a. It's another training program. It's just that's what San Angelo uses. But so FTO. I think that one of the biggest differences that I've seen is, like FTO, you get an evaluation at the end of every day. Pto is once a week, it's the same thing. I mean it's kind of the.
Speaker 1:I got evaluated after every call which, which you should. I mean that's the way verbally you are Take a lap or no, you didn't screw up that bad, so I want to take half a lap.
Speaker 3:So so you're working deep nights. You're starting March. At what point? How soon thereafter did your major incident happen?
Speaker 1:So I I graduate March 2019. It's 18 weeks so I hit the street, get bumped to a shift that never worked with the people I've never worked with, and then I immediately come back in. In November of 2020 is when I had my critical incident. Okay was it on night shift or day shift. It was deep nights. It was the first night back. It was our first night back after the Thanksgiving holiday.
Speaker 4:Okay, and the fog was so thick you couldn't see five feet in front of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was it was one of those statewide fog nights.
Speaker 4:It was late November late November state.
Speaker 1:I mean it is from Brownsville to Amarillo, wow, from El Paso to Beaumont it is fog.
Speaker 3:Okay, walk us through kind of the call there before or there after and kind of walk us through what happened.
Speaker 1:So we were, honestly, what we were doing was me and my buddy were screwing off is what we were doing? We were. It was right before midnight, we had just got done with Thanksgiving with our families, and this particular guy that goes with me has been one of my closest friends since we were in the sixth grade together. Wow, and both ended up being cops. Somehow. I guess the public education didn't do us too well. We both ended up being cops and we're actually beating up at one of the little hidey holes where cops have.
Speaker 1:And you know, I take out a couple cigars and we're gonna we're gonna give it a shot, getting out of the car and then, as soon as, as soon as I as I, soon as I cut and I touch that cigar with a lighter, boom, noise goes off, tones drop, time to go and we're hauling ass. You know, 1016 in progress because St Angelou still uses 10co's domestic assault and progress. Okay. So license siren response hop in the car and go. And the way we were parked, I knew my partner was gonna have to do like a three-point turn to get his to use driving a Tahoe. So I knew I was gonna beat him because I had a charger and I'm pointed towards the exit. I'm just out the door said something about a knife. Stepdad was assaulting mom, the kids calling in, or a child is calling in, and I knew right where I was going. I didn't have to look at the call notes or I did all. Wasn't trying to read a lot of our call comments from the computer screen because it's.
Speaker 3:You've been there before.
Speaker 1:To that address I had never been there to that not to that specific address before. But I knew that. I knew where the street was and I know how the block numbers work, so I knew that it was gonna be right there on the corner. Boom, boom. I was like once I got go here, here and here, good to go.
Speaker 1:But I'm trying to drive responsibly with I don't know if anybody's ever driven in heavy fog with your light bar going. It's worse. Does the same damn thing you do with your head, with your high beams? It reflects back at you. It is terrifying because you can't see anything. But somebody needs help and we got to get there. So I showed up first and there's about a 13 or 14 year old kid at the front door and they're back there. It was kind of nonchalant. They're fighting back there and I can hear them like cool, sit here on the front porch and wait for my partner and it's like an L I mean. You walk in the front door, you're in the living room hallway, goes to the right and there's a door facing you.
Speaker 1:You're wonderful, I've got nowhere to go in this hallway except right there at that door. If that guy's got a gun, it's not gonna be that hard. And I'm radioing to my partner like, dude, where you at, get here, step it up, whatever your agency uses. I was trying to law Just get here. I already have my gun out. He comes in. He's like all right, let's do this. Am I cool? Because we've got a closed door and we're going in as soon as you say you're ready, we do.
Speaker 1:And so I kind of violated some policy and just kind of flying. And then you kick that front door, that interior door forward and jump into this room and he's sitting in a chair right there, just sitting there, staring at me like, like an it was almost like animalistic. You, just what? You just you could see you just fight, mad, just angry, pissed, and she's, they've got a mattress on the floor and the wife is sitting there. So I, in order for my me to give my partner any room to come in, I've got to move into the room. So I moved down that working wall and my partner's standing in the doorway Wow, we have nowhere else to go. So this is where we're at and they're just sitting there. He's staring at us where this like Something's, something bad is about to happen.
Speaker 1:So I tell the guys, like you, stand up, go to living room with my partner right now. And he kind of shifts and he had his hand down by his, his leg in a computer chair. When he shifts to kind of stand up, I see he's got a knife in his hand and my partner sees it too, excuse me. And so now it's drop the knife, drop the knife, drop the knife. And the only thing this guy says the entire time is shoot me, not screaming, he's not Cussing. You know, we we were pointing guns at this guy, drop the knife and he just Shoot me. How close, how far apart are you guys about the size of this room? We're about the size, I don't know, probably four or five feet.
Speaker 2:It's not a very big house, it's a if our viewers, this room's a lot smaller than it appears on TV. Clearly, yeah, we hear that every day.
Speaker 1:So you are close? Yeah, we're, it's, it's tight. If he decides to use that knife on me or my partner, Somebody's getting cut, no doubt.
Speaker 2:He's still sitting at that point.
Speaker 1:He's still sitting, and so he kind of backs away, I guess, kind of scoots in that chair and kind of backs himself up into a corner. So now we're about six feet Okay, six to eight feet away from him and he's still got that. And he's just sitting there with a knife in his hand shoot me how big is the knife?
Speaker 3:Is it big, large knife or?
Speaker 1:box no, not really. I mean a little bit bigger than box cutters, like a paring knife. Okay.
Speaker 3:I eat pears, so I know what a pairing knife is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, but that's like, that's like a second pocket knife size. Yeah, you're not fruit drinkers about like that. And so that was one of the benefits of Having who I had with me was my partner. You know, he's my buddy. We were kids together and now we're adults together, now we're cops together. We didn't have to discuss anything. I Could hear him holster his weapon and draw his taser. Okay, I've got lethal, he's got taser. And I see the dot on his chest. I'm like, okay, here we go. And Brad Dazed him and he just sat there.
Speaker 1:Oh, Both probes hit both probes hit lot of them up, lee Roy and he just sat there riding the light he just sat there riding the light and they actually started stabbing himself in the shoulder with that knife, trying to get us to shoot him. So you know, I hear the clicking stops, he holsters that and I hear him draw his weapon. Okay, well, now it's my turn. Maybe we can. Maybe he's got a bad lead or a bad probe or a bad battery, whatever, in his taser. So I try to taste him and I guess he didn't like that too much because old boy just kind of did some Wushu finger cold, I don't know whatever wax on, wax off and breaks the Line to the taser. It comes back and hits and wraps around my hand holding the taser. So I kind of jump like I don't, I don't like tasing myself, but I knew how to stop it. So now neither one of us have a taser, because we have the old X.
Speaker 1:X 26 26 p's or whatever. One cartridge. No working the working.
Speaker 3:Oh well, okay, so we go back up and he and just for those real quick, that are thinking well, you could still drive stone. Well, oh, following up with the drive stone, you would be placing yourselves in that.
Speaker 1:in that in that gap. Yeah, I wasn't getting maintained. Yeah, yeah, I wasn't gonna get close enough.
Speaker 3:We have a lot non law enforcement listeners. I just want to clarify that. Yeah what you're probably processing. We can't close that gap at that point because he's still armed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly, he never dropped the knife. He, when I, when I try to deploy my taser, is when he broke the lead, the wire that comes from the the taser to the probe, and he stands up. And now he's standing over, like standing over his wife. Yeah, and he's got that knife in his hand. Still. We're like here. You know that's that's worst case scenario.
Speaker 1:So you know, you start adding pressure to that trigger and your heart just keeps. It's stressful, you're processing a lot all at once, really quickly and Fine. So I just start screaming at the guy, just start absolutely Screaming, and he looks up at me and away from his wife. So I'm like, okay, well, there's one crisis. And then he Takes a step towards me. So I moved down the wall a little bit, but I feel my shoulder hit something. So now I'm like, well, great, now I'm in a corner, I've got nowhere to go, and I'm looking. You know I'm glancing over at my partner and I'm looking to where he's standing, where bad guy is, and then where the wife is, and I'm and Brad can't help cross, fire to cross fire he had.
Speaker 1:the wife was behind the bad guy, from where my partner was standing wife was his backdrop wife was his backdrop.
Speaker 1:So I knew that, okay, here we go and he zeros in on me and I I tell him man, I don't want to shoot you, I don't want to shoot you. And Right after I said that is when he lunches at me he makes just that last little effort that he's coming to me. So I fired my weapon and ended the threat and then Everything just fades out. Right after that, everything just kind of you just revert back to base function Holster weapon secure guy, grab her, put her on the couch, go back, everything's covered. Cool, come back out, make sure everything's covered, and I'm. And then you know, you just it's almost like it days, like you know that you're doing everything that you need to be doing, but you're doing it automatically would you say, completely unconscious.
Speaker 2:You're just doing whatever training you just completely reverted back to. Just training is kicked in and you're not even processing what you're doing. You're not even processing what you need to be doing.
Speaker 1:You're just reverting to training. You can actually see after I fire. We had just gotten by it. We hadn't had body camps for very long when this happened. You can actually see my body start to process my scans that they teach us in the academy to check for threats. You could. I'm in a room with three other people this size. You know it's a bedroom. It's an interior bedroom in an older house. It's not very big, and I you can see me start to do the twirling. I start to do the twist.
Speaker 1:Even knowing there's no other threats, training over training took over and I'm starting to scan the room. It's amazing really. Yeah, I mean I'm telling you you revert you in a hot, super high stress situation. You're gonna revert back to that training.
Speaker 2:Do you? Did you know at that time how many shots you fired? Not clue. How many did you fire?
Speaker 1:ended up shooting four.
Speaker 2:And you had no conscious effort of okay, I'm gonna pull it twice, or I pulled it twice, he's still standing. Need to pull it twice more. It's just for you fired forward, not thinking, and that's what ended the threat.
Speaker 1:Fire until the threat ended and that's just kind of how I was trained and you know, growing up shooting guns and all this other. You know my dad being a firearm instructor for many years before he was a regular instructor. You kind of you revert back to that training In the threat. It's what I did. Secure the secure, the person. Okay, now tend to that person.
Speaker 2:So from the time you got to that bedroom door, reach the bedroom door To shots fired trying to secure her. In reality, about how long was that?
Speaker 1:about six minutes 23 seconds, if I remember right.
Speaker 2:Total total from the call drop To shots fired no, no, no, from the time you entered the bedroom.
Speaker 1:Oh, then I guess probably Three or four minutes maybe.
Speaker 2:So the kind of the standoff in the bedroom is three minutes or so not very long at all.
Speaker 2:It's it's. It's fascinating and for our listeners and people that have been through this and people that may be involved in one in the future. I hear two versions. Either that whole thing seemed like it was everything was slow motion and Lasted forever, or it seemed like it was just a flash and it was just a small blip that occurred and it happened just like that was, or that it was, neither. But like a lot of times I've worked police shootings and guys will say, yeah, I could see my casing Flying out of or I could see the round hitting. Did time slow for you During that incident and the stress? Was time, normal appearance? Or did it seem like the whole thing happened in one second?
Speaker 1:No, so during up until firing my weapon, everything was moving at a normal pace. I Once I fired my weapon, and after is when everything slowed down a little bit the noise drops a little bit. You know, I just almost like if you were underwater and you're trying to listen to music. Like you can hear that it's there, but you can't understand it.
Speaker 2:So your auditory exclusion was kicked in pretty good, absolutely Tunnel vision, everything.
Speaker 1:I knew what I was doing and you know when I go back and watch my camera later I was repeating myself three times Everything I said. I said three times, I don't know why, but it was come with me, come with me, come with me, sit here, sit here, sit here, go to him, go to him, go to him when I'm talking to different people.
Speaker 2:But there's some value in that, because when people are under stress the wife would have been under stress, anybody else there would have been under stress. They probably had some stress and auditory exclusion also. So ensuring they're getting that command three times is probably beneficial, yeah.
Speaker 2:And whether that was trained into you guys in the academy or whether it was just an Oodle Loop that was hung open and you were doing it three times, but making sure they hear it. It's kind of like giving a death notice you tell that person several times so that they can grasp it and process it. Probably wasn't a bad thing that you were, whether it was conscious or so.
Speaker 1:It was definitely not conscious, it was. I knew we got this guy in handcuffs. Okay, my partner's got him, cool, she doesn't need to be in this room right now, because this dude's probably going to die.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or she may flip out now that she shot him and she may flip out.
Speaker 1:She may be having a total come apart. She was not.
Speaker 3:She was very just okay, which says a lot yeah.
Speaker 1:I don't. I don't think that may have been the happiest of marriages is what I'm kind of saying.
Speaker 3:At what point, and I've always wondered this. I watched the video the other day I think it was in Chicago, maybe, uh, where the officer had to use justified deadly force and he immediately is apologetic. He says I'm sorry. Well, to the general public and the court of public opinion, they're immediately thinking why the hell did he say I'm sorry. Because he's admitting fault. The reality is, we're human, absolutely. And at what point did you, did you start processing? Oh shit, I have, I have fired my duty weapon. I'm now in a critical incident.
Speaker 1:I actually called TMP. I was a. I've been a TMP member since I started, since the academy. It was actually a John and Dick Brock that came out and gave that presentation and kind of convinced me to go that to come over this way. Um, tmp, the lady that answered the phone got a bluster. I can't remember her name. She couldn't have been nicer, more professional. Uh, okay, well, is this the number? Yes, I'm gonna make sure I got your name spelled right. Okay, and you're in where? San Angelo, texas. Okay, well, hang up the phone but keep it on. You. You're getting a call in about five minutes, in the next five minutes, and I get a call and a laugh about it now, but it wasn't funny. Then I got a call. It was a Washington DC phone number. Um, turns out the the attorney, the TMP attorney, for whatever reason, has a Washington DC phone number.
Speaker 4:That's where. That's that's where John Wolf was from, isn't it? He he was a federal attorney in DC.
Speaker 3:No, he was. He was, well, I don't know about a federal attorney, but most actually don't know. And John's going to come on His background is a DEA SWAT member. Ah, okay, I mean. So now he's an attorney. So what better bad ass attorney? I mean bad ass attorney. So what better person to have represent our members? And he's a regional contract attorney, and we can talk about that on several podcasts why our legal defense is better than others, but anyway, so how, how? How soon thereafter did the, the John, show up to the scene?
Speaker 1:So he calls me and he's like hey, I'm coming from Midland and that fog has not lifted, cause you can't see anything. I'm standing in this front yard of this house and I can't see the street. I'm like whatever man, this guy's coming from Midland. He goes where are you going? I was like to this address. He goes can you text it to me? I'm already in the car. Yeah, yeah, I can do that.
Speaker 1:Um, and we go when we get placed in the conference room at our detective ad X just to sit and wait, sit and wait, sit and wait. Um, my family has always gone to our ranch out there near Sanderson for Thanksgiving and I came back early to work because I had to work that Saturday. Um, I didn't know if my family was in town or not. I had no idea. And if they didn't, if they weren't in town, they didn't have cell service. It wasn't until I don't know probably 45 minutes that dad came walking through the door and I was like, holy shit, you came, you came home, thank God. So I got to use my dad as my liaison officer, with his wealth of experience, to kind of help me through the process. He never he never was in a critical incident over his career, like most cops, but he was a detective for a while and works the other side of it, so he kind of knew and it's, you know, it's kind of nice to have your dad around, not going to lie.
Speaker 3:So, uh, how are you doing now? What are you doing with a San Angelo police department? How have you, uh, you know, bounced back from from that critical incident and what do you do? Back up a little bit.
Speaker 1:There, yes, and we got. We got to talk about Mr Wolf for a second there, cause, uh, I don't know, from San Angelo to Midlands what 160 miles.
Speaker 4:It's right at two hours two hour drive on a normal day.
Speaker 1:I don't know how he made it in an hour ish, wow, in statewide fog, and he kind of he sits down and goes as the rangers got here, I'm like no, who are you? Cause all your attorneys. You know, my name's John Wolf, I go cool.
Speaker 2:That's awesome he goes.
Speaker 1:You know what happens when a trooper pulls you over when you're on your way to something like this. I said, no, he goes, he had to do anything. It's great the boy got pulled over flying on the Midland highways in a big fog by DPS DPS. Of course we were like what are you doing? Tnpa lawyer going to San Angelo to an officer involved shooting the trooper. I think just turned on his heels and say a word. So shout out to Mr Wolf. He was absolutely awesome.
Speaker 2:He's a pleasure to work with because you can call him at 12 noon or 12 midnight and he's like text me the address I'm rolling right now, Yep.
Speaker 1:He did a fantastic job for me. See everybody with TNPA. They had a few different people reach out to me and just check on me and it bothered me, it took me. It took me a minute to get to get right with it.
Speaker 2:How long were you off work initially?
Speaker 1:I was given initially three days. We worked 12 hour shifts, so three working days turns into seven full days. And then, when that was up I was. I didn't think I was ready to go back, so I was like I don't know, I want to go talk to the department, shrink one more time before I go back, cause my thought process is you know, I don't want to have some sort of deep seated trauma get sent to another domestic and just freeze up and get my partner hurt.
Speaker 2:Good on you for having the intestinal fortitude to do that, rather than being like well, if I tell him I'm not ready yet, somebody may think I'm a sissy or it may not look cool. Good on you for saying I've had plenty of time off, but I'm still not certain that I'm a hundred percent certain. And I need to. I need to self check myself.
Speaker 1:What it?
Speaker 2:was because if you don't go back which I did before and you go back and you're a loose cannon or you've got some unattended issue, you're way more frequent dangerous than a suspect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so what it was is I thought I was doing too well with it. I never lost my appetite, I never lost any sleep, I didn't you know. I was more annoyed because my cell phone just kept going off. It's a really good problem to have. I got a really good department with a lot of people who actually give a shit. So your phone calls, text messages, all those guys I was talking about that convinced me to be a police officer by their actions. They're calling me, inviting me to dinner, doing this, doing that, Just checking on me, coming by and just swinging by my apartment and just hanging out for a minute or two.
Speaker 2:Did that help realizing you had a big circle, that you had a tight family? Was that helpful?
Speaker 1:It did, and San Angelo's always been pretty good about that. We get on each other's nerves pretty regularly, but we're we're, we're a pretty tight knit department. Excuse me, excuse me, but we so having all that, but I never, I never had that like when you watching the movies is you know the guy breaking down in the shower or just staring it, a you know a TV with nothing on it? I never had that moment. I was just like this happened. I did my job, like I I should. I should feel bad, but I should feel bad about this, but I didn't.
Speaker 1:And having my, you know my best buddy with me, and now we can't like hang out until we go talk to the Rangers, because we can't corrupt the investigation, we can check on each other and finally, what it pulled down to, I was like man, I'm just worried about you. You know how are you doing, cause he felt like he left me hanging out to dry because he, he had the background. So, yeah, I don't feel that way he goes. Well, I'm worried about you because you know you've actually had to shoot this guy and watch the lights start now. It's like no, what it boiled down to is, if we quit worrying about each other. Then we were both good. So, um, so I went back and talked to the shrink again and he, there was some other, there's some older officers in the department that I really didn't know that will that had been through the go is thing, and I went and talked to them and some of those guys really helped me out. Yeah, um, and get me through that.
Speaker 1:I went back to work and they said like hey, why don't you ride with somebody for a week? Why don't you sit with it? You know, getting this person's car and just smart on them. Yeah, it's, it's pretty standard. Now I don't know if it's actually on paper as far as protocol go, but I'm pretty sure that's how it's going to happen from now on. Yeah, so it's just to just to be sure you know, just in case you hit that one nerve and it hits the wrong switch in your head and you just, and you end up standing there and staring, which none of us want. So after that, I've just still back on the streets, still working deep nights, still working the same part of town. Good for you, man.
Speaker 2:Is that a house?
Speaker 3:or an apartment.
Speaker 2:It's a house. Have you been back to a call on that street?
Speaker 1:Uh, been to many calls on that street.
Speaker 2:I was that.
Speaker 1:I don't go to that, that corner. I don't go to either turn it, either turn East or West before, cause it's on one of the main drags of my area.
Speaker 2:So you just don't drive by that specific corner, I don't drive by that street.
Speaker 1:I don't drive by, I don't drive down that, I don't hit that intersection right there. Yeah, they're sustainable. If I don't, if I can avoid it something, if something happened on the other side of the street and in that corner, well so be it. Yeah, it's, it's. It's a little weary, Um, they just. I did drive near it and I saw that they have a construction crew, so I think they're painting it, which I think will do better.
Speaker 2:Yeah, how old are you now, zane?
Speaker 1:I am 30 years old.
Speaker 2:What would 30 year old Zane tell 20 year old Zane?
Speaker 1:Uh, 20 year old Zane would be quick, just quick, on the college. What was the money? Um, he would say go get you a job or go join the military, go do something, but colleges is not going to be your thing.
Speaker 2:What would you tell a young man or woman, 20 year old right now that's watching this, that's really thinks they want to get into law enforcement and your stories interested or inspired on. What would you share with them about what you've learned in the last five or six years?
Speaker 1:Be prepared, um, sometimes it is our job to show up to the worst days of people's lives. Be prepared to be the rock in that, in that position for somebody you don't even know. Um, and don't expect to be paid well for it.
Speaker 3:It's good of us, yep.
Speaker 1:But you can't take a thankless job and then get mad when nobody says thank you.
Speaker 3:I need to be on a t-shirt.
Speaker 4:Or is there a slider?
Speaker 2:What would you tell which? You told Young man or woman?
Speaker 4:today To, I mean just to. I mean, if they want to do it, they need to, they need to pull the trigger and go do it, they need to you know, maybe a bad.
Speaker 4:You know, don't, don't do along it forever because, like so, I had that little crisis where I was like, what do I do? What do I do, you know, do I stay in college or do you know? And I mean in hindsight, yeah, probably you should have finished. I had a full ride. I mean I should have taken advantage of the money that was given to me Through that scholarship and and finished up and at least got a piece of paper some departments pay for it, some don't and you know it would have given me a little bit of a different perspective. I mean, I was halfway through, you know, I had two years in and so, no, you have to follow what your heart tells you to do, and so if your heart's telling you to get into public service and to and to become a cop or a firefighter or whatever the case may be, do it, or prepare yourself to do it, or get a job that prepares you to do it. I started in dispatch and with the intent of.
Speaker 4:Going to the fire department. You know I was volunteer firefighter.
Speaker 2:I was like yeah, you're one of the sleepers.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he's just smarter than the rest of us, well.
Speaker 4:You know, and of course I made the wrong decision, or no, the right decision, honestly. But, um, you know, that was exactly what it was. Though, as, being in dispatch, I realized I'm like these guys don't do anything half the time and have a. We have a great relationship with the fire department in San Angelo His brother is actually one of them, and so you know. But I just realized I'm like, yeah, I can't sit at the station. I'm not well, I cannot sit. Still, it's hard to Be in a place like I was never.
Speaker 4:One of those guys was not a parking lot cop. I could not just sit there all night. I had to be out there at least trying to do something, yeah, and so, yeah, I mean it's. If that's what you want to do, then either prepare yourself for it by getting a job to get you Ready for it when you're able to get into it because I was 19 when I started dispatch you couldn't, you can't be a cop. It younger than 21 at the time or, you know, go to the jail, do something to get ready for it and then, when it's time, come on over.
Speaker 3:There was a post that's all on Lamar adopt a cop, lamar County Sheriff's Office, texas Ranger, a local Lamar County child of a sick and just his first day back. It's third grade after months and months of rehab and now it's a medical situation. Well, they provided this kid a police escort to School. He'd been out for like six months and the entire school that this is gonna be up to your point. Entire school made a big poster and the slogan that the school came up with was shoot high and dream big, and it was to that child.
Speaker 2:Well, and I think you made another really good point, john If you're passionate about it or you have a heart to do it, do it. If you don't have a passion to protect people, you got to be selfless because you got to protect the millionaire dude, just like you're gonna have to protect the crackhead that's, you know, getting beat up or car jack If you don't end to Zane's point. We only see people on their worst day. If you don't have a passion to do this job, do yourself in the community as favor and don't get into it. Yeah, exactly because you you, if you're getting this job because you think, well, the pace, pretty good and I'll have it, you know I'll have retirement and I'll have medical benefits, if that's your desire to get into this Life, this is not the life for you. You were a doing a disservice to the community, to a police department. You're doing yourself a disservice In towards into my career.
Speaker 2:I sat on some boards and guys are like, well, the tech industry slowed down, so I figured, screw it, I'd get some good medical. And I'm like you need to go somewhere else. You don't, you need to leave right now. Yeah, you gotta have a passion. That's something everybody comes on this episode on this podcast. There's a freaking passion for people and that's a sad part. I guess really the sappy side of client is the misnomer about Public servants and cops or stormtroopers and blah, blah, blah and. And the cops have the biggest hearts to go care and go see how people on their worst day and defend the Defenseless. Yeah, that's super important.
Speaker 3:Well, man, you got anything else? Rapid fire, rapid fire time. Okay, you want to do it, cause I always mess it up and I got a good feeling about Balini.
Speaker 2:The error in your thinking Is they weren't alive when.
Speaker 3:No, no, no, I promise you there were some. I promise, no, you'll understand.
Speaker 2:Here we go. Best cop movie or line from a cop movie how about a TV show? Any cop show cop TV.
Speaker 1:Because the greatest cop TV show of all time is Walker Texas Ranger, yeah that's not bad. Yeah, that's a good one that's every single day, every.
Speaker 4:I liked the end of watch. That was one of my favorites. Die Hard was a good one. Yeah, I like those.
Speaker 3:Die Hard is probably the number, almost number two, I think.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you'll get the other guys a lot and honestly, the first time I watched it I was like I lost brain cells and I was really upset that I watched that movie. And then I watched it again later, like a year or so, and I'm like, ok, now I can. It's funny.
Speaker 2:Second, third time. It's freaking hilarious.
Speaker 4:The first time I was like wow.
Speaker 2:If people want to see, if, if non law enforcement, want to see the behind the curtain of what law enforcement is, the funny sense of humor, the camaraderie we have, the weird sense of humor we have to survive in this in this job how one call can be nothing in the other call can be a complete train wreck. End of watch. And I'm not saying it's 100 percent accurate. The camaraderie behind the scenes. Like the curtains pulled back, two guys cutting up in a police car, the raw, the real, the bond, the families get together, the kinsignettas, and that's a great movie for someone kind of like full metal jacket If they want to see what bootcamp was like. It's not 100 percent accurate. The bootcamp is pretty close. End of watch. Is a freaking fantastic movie. We don't get that one on here a lot. Oh, that's a great, freaking movie.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we've had it on here a couple of times, I guess All right.
Speaker 2:Best police car Chevy Caprice best police car.
Speaker 1:Chevy Caprice, man Dude, I've only been here, I'm only going to come for five years. Man, that's what I think. When I think about police car, I think of the Blues Brothers jumping, jumping that's the old school, yeah.
Speaker 4:That's the big LTV mall chasing after the Blues Brothers yeah.
Speaker 2:That's the best. What's the best one you've driven?
Speaker 1:Between the charger, the Tahoe and the Explorer. I'm quite fond of my Explorer.
Speaker 4:actually I've had good luck with the current generation is pretty good yeah the older generation not so much, but the current generation is actually pretty solid car I'm a favorite. Well, let's just list them. So I've I've only driven a Tahoe for a couple of shifts, I've never actually had one assigned to me, and by the time we started buying them, I was, I had a take home car, which was don't play with me Blaney. Now just hold on. No, no, no we got to learn here.
Speaker 3:He is so this is the let down. Yeah, so it's like a four play. You're cute, but you're not that Just so my first take home was an F 250.
Speaker 4:That thing was a tank. Hey, I was Lake Division.
Speaker 1:I forgot they had a two fifty.
Speaker 3:I was the last.
Speaker 4:I was the first, last one that got the two fifty.
Speaker 4:Anticipation is killing me we're getting there, we're getting it. Then I got down to one fifty, which that was a little bit better, and honestly, you know, I drove that thing for four and a half years. Okay, got a brand new one promoted, went to Sergeant and drove a charger Okay, hey, that thing was a piece of junk, you know. Brand new pickup to old ass charger and it was terrible. And then I got my current Explorer, which isn't bad, but when I was a rookie we had three crown vicks left on the fleet, hey, and there was two bubble tops, yeah, and one that had an LED light bar, and there was only three of us that wanted to drive those cars and that was the choice.
Speaker 3:I mean, I knew it Absolutely, my heart was there, we were in sync.
Speaker 1:We still have one.
Speaker 4:We have one. It's a black crown Vic. That was the old gang unit. I got to drive that a couple of times, yeah.
Speaker 1:They brought it out for our drive training too. So I actually went in the Academy our drive training. I got to drive a crown.
Speaker 2:Vic, it's got 300,000 miles on it. No, probably I was less than a hundred.
Speaker 4:Are you serious?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 4:Like I said, it was the gang car and then for a couple of years we didn't have a gang unit, so it kind of sat, um, I drove it, but they just kind of let the patrol sergeants borrow it as needed for a little bit. So I got to drive it a couple of times when my piece of junk was in the shop, which is probably often was a dodge it was terrible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a bad one.
Speaker 4:It was so bad. They took it away from me at 75,000 miles, which is about typical, or maybe a little bit more than normal for a take home car, and they didn't even put it on the fleet, they just deadlined it.
Speaker 2:It had, so it honestly, was probably a limit. Send it to the crush. Oh, it was bad, all right. Third question Off duty drink of choice when relaxing.
Speaker 1:And I'm an old fashioned guy.
Speaker 2:Any certain bourbon.
Speaker 1:Buffalo Trace is, unless I'm feeling froggy, feeling fancy.
Speaker 3:Feeling froggy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'll pick something on that next shelf and the next couple shelves up.
Speaker 3:I already know what Blaney's going to be Well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I mean, the official drink of the TMPA board is the old fashioned yeah.
Speaker 3:I will challenge everyone to this. I told him I had to call him immediately after next morning. I think it wasn't like a sauce morning, but like 630. A breakfast shot. Have you ever heard of that before? Yeah, OK well, I guess it just now made it to Wembley and I got to try it so for y'all out there listening breakfast shot is the way to go. It is legit.
Speaker 2:You got anything else, big dog? Nope Like, subscribe, follow, share with your friends, give us a review. If you don't mind, hit Google and give us a Google review. We would forever love you a long time.
Speaker 3:California just released the fact that they have, I guess, dissolved or they banned excited delirium for their autopsy reports. Can't use those words. Oh, that's right, sorry. Well, we're going to in Texas and we are trying to ED. We're going to try to get a doctor on the next couple of episodes to discuss and give their thoughts on ED, ed, so look forward to those episodes too. You guys stay safe out there. God bless you and, as always, may God bless Texas. We're out.
