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Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
2024: Ranked #1 Law Podcast
Host: Tyler Owen and Clint McNear discussing topics, issues, and stories within the law enforcement community. TMPA is the voice of Texas Law Enforcement, focused on protecting those who serve. Since 1950, we have been defending the rights and interests of Texas Peace Officers by providing the best legal assistance in the country, effective lobbying at state and local levels, affordable training, and exemplary member support. As the largest law enforcement association in Texas, TMPA is proud to represent 33,000 local, county and state law enforcement officers.
Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
#054-"Kiss the Ring" with Brian Johns
This episode explores the topic of toxic leadership and its impact on mental well-being. Our guest, Brian Johns, sheds light on many officers' harsh reality, but few are willing to discuss it openly. As duty calls to report misconduct within the ranks, it affects their careers and mental health. The conversation is candid and emotional and promises to provide insights into the lesser-known side of law enforcement. As you listen to this episode, prepare to experience a roller coaster of emotions. So, pour yourself a glass and settle in for an episode that offers laughter, honesty, and a side of law enforcement you've likely never seen before.
Listen for of-the-moment insider insights, framed by the rapidly changing social and...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
Join us for the TNPA and FOP joint conference, dallas, texas, july 26th through July 28th. We hope to see you there.
Speaker 2:In February of 2019, whenever I saw a sheriff's office employee working on the sheriff's personal pullers and I knew the instant that I saw that I had to report it. I was fired on July 3rd of 2019. They didn't even just leave a determination, they gave me a dishonorable discharge.
Speaker 1:Welcome back blue grit listeners, watchers, voyeurs. Hope you all had a wonderful Christmas, new Year's, a good 2024 kickoff. I'm your host, tyler Owen.
Speaker 3:Clint McNeer.
Speaker 1:How the hell you been.
Speaker 3:I'm good man, I'm good. You only wear a ball cap. We just left the range doing some SIM training, which was good.
Speaker 1:We did Actually, let's talk about that real quick. We uh, okay, let's talk about that. Yeah, let's do that. We had we had some local Austin media outlets and Austin community members at the Williamson County firing range and we put them through some real life law enforcement scenario training exercises just to give them the perspective of law enforcement that the general public probably doesn't see every day, like we see in the streets, and so we want to put them through that and I think it was extremely productive.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's cool. We had some members of Austin justice coalition and some community members out there that got to get shot and got to shoot. Yeah, it was good.
Speaker 1:And, by the way, I am wearing my hat backwards for those that are zoomed in. I did not fart on my pillow and have pink eye. I think I caught some dust. I just want to throw that out there for the, for the watchers out there. I don't have pink, I just want this Let you know.
Speaker 3:I would suspect people don't zoom in on either one of them.
Speaker 1:I'm just telling you, I'm just being honest, being open. We love each other.
Speaker 3:Who do we got today?
Speaker 1:We've got Brian Johns, one of our board of directors, who now works at Leander PD. He's going to talk about some leadership issues that he's had in the past with some agency or an agency that he worked for. Me and Brian know each other for quite some time and he's been heavily involved with TNPA for a number of years. And welcome to the blue grid stage, brother.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, Absolutely. We generally start off by saying you know where'd you grow up? Who the hell's Brian, and let's dive off into that. So where'd you grow up at?
Speaker 2:I grew up in Waco, texas. I my dad is a or was a college professor at Baylor and my mom was a high school math teacher had no family and law enforcement whatsoever and I ended up having a Sunday school teacher that was a chief of police oh okay, woodway Yo Zachary and he kind of started me on that path to start to look towards a law enforcement to clarify something before we kicked this off today.
Speaker 3:Tyler said you were born and grew up inside the branch of the video compound, and I want to clear up today that you were not born in the branch of the video compound or part of that.
Speaker 2:I was, I was. I did not grow up in the branch of the video compound or born there.
Speaker 3:He wasn't born original video.
Speaker 1:I didn't say you were. I said you were born next to it. I said that you were, you were raised near it and that you were born next to it. I think he said you were conceived there too, oh wow. We've gotten. We're getting shit deep. I do want to bring up something about Waco. How are you? I'm 47. When you were born, did they start construction in Waco? Then and this now completed like two years ago, Because Clint claims that they just now completed it?
Speaker 2:It's been under construction my whole life.
Speaker 3:Literally, they just completed it after 50 years. Oh my God, but it's really not done.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the side streets are all under control.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's true. That's true, but you get through Waco finally. Yeah, waco is a cool town. Is that a good place to grow up?
Speaker 2:It was. It was a good place to grow up. 18 years is enough and I got out and moved to Huntsville, I went to Sam Houston and then went through the police academy, through Montgomery County Sheriff's Office.
Speaker 3:They didn't know that either. That's where John Vance yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yep, yep and my old chief deputy, paul Revis, cool.
Speaker 3:So what grown up in Waco? Do you have family law enforcement?
Speaker 2:No, not at all.
Speaker 3:Were you inspired at Sam Houston in the law enforcement, because I know it's a big law enforcement school. What led you to Sam Houston and to that direction in Huntsville?
Speaker 2:So the my Sunday school teacher. He encouraged me and got me interested in it. I had a government teacher, my senior of high school. That got us right along with Waco Police Department. Oh cool and the first ride along. After that I was hooked, yeah, and then I was in East Waco and it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3:One adrenaline dump and I'm all in.
Speaker 2:For sure, and Sam Houston had one of the best criminal justice programs in the country, and so Still do?
Speaker 1:I think they still do yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that's how I ended up there. And then they had an academy that they did through the school with Montgomery County, and so I was able to go through the academy in the summer of 97.
Speaker 1:Oh nice, Did you work in the jail there?
Speaker 2:So I started out as a reserve at Montgomery County and then I worked in the jail while I finished up my degree and then I went to patrol on the east side of Montgomery County.
Speaker 1:So many times we've had guests in the podcast that have either been in the reserves explore program and worked in the jail talk about how important it was or the benefit that you saw across your law enforcement career. I'm working in the jail and how it developed. He was a law enforcement officer and just how how beneficial it was.
Speaker 2:Well, it coming from somewhat of a sheltered life, of grown up in Waco and the branch the video and the branch, the video thing. You know, living on that compound, I, you know, didn't have as much life experience and so working in the jail got me that. It helped me to be able to talk to people. All the crooks that dealt within the jail were the ones that we dealt with out on the street.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, they come in drunk and they come in pissed that they're in handcuffs and as a young person working in a jail, you learn very quickly how to communicate, how to effectively communicate, how to mitigate issues, because you're stuck with them. The officer gets to book them in and leave. You're stuck with them and I think it's a good starting ground Sometimes, oftentimes, for people to understand how to navigate and communicate with people that are not happy to be with you, right.
Speaker 3:What's weird is your career parallels John Vance. We had a retired Texas Ranger on recently went to Montgomery County, was going to college. He was working in the jail Montgomery County and then left to go DPS, go to DPS, but his career sounds that's a cool that it.
Speaker 1:It parallels it very, very similar yeah well, and I think it's a testament really of Sam Houston's legacy with Texas law enforcement. How many people go there and grab graduated and still serve today? Yeah, so so you're working in Montgomery County in the jail. You were reserved and now you're working in jail. Dive off and kind of worry what, where you went after that.
Speaker 2:So the sheriff had told me that I wasn't allowed to go to patrol until I had my degree, and so I got my degree and test for patrol, got number one on the list and they'd slaughtered me to go to the woodlands. And I did not want to go to the woodlands and so that was like a district with a yeah, it's a it's own little city.
Speaker 3:Okay, probably not a lot of, probably less opportunity for big action in the woodlands than some other areas.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, they have their. They have their fair share. But I wanted to get a lot of experience really quick and so I ended up trading with another guy and he went to the woodlands and I went to East Montgomery County over on Splendor and New Canaan Umbil Kingwood area, and the sheriff told me whenever I went out there, you're going to get 10 years worth of experience in two years. And he was right.
Speaker 3:It's a little sporty, Nice, so um Deputy Academy. Why are you in the jail going through the Academy, or why you were in school?
Speaker 2:Is that right? Yeah, so while I was in school, I went to the Academy and I didn't start working in the jail until after through Montgomery County's Academy.
Speaker 3:They were on their own, correct, in conjunction with San Houston. Yeah, oh nice.
Speaker 1:Cool. So how long did you work on patrol in?
Speaker 2:South East about two years. I was there from 99 until 2004. Okay, and then I promoted out, promoted to Corporal and went to the other side of the county over in Magnolia and worked that district.
Speaker 1:for Explain for those that don't know, they no longer make it past the Valley of H Fergus. A patrol deputy to a supervisor and sounds like you were young still, you're probably what 26, 27 yes so you've got five years experience. I guess one in the day after my 21st birthday yeah, so you're five years out I mean still very, that's fairly young and law enforcement experience?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah you are younger than me explain to what that was like to, kind of the first day you go to work as a 26 year old corporal in charge of a shift that's most likely probably either the same age or maybe, if not, a little bit older than you. Explain that aspect of what that felt like well it was.
Speaker 2:It was different because, yes, most of the people that I was supervising were older than I had. I was, and had been doing the job longer, and you just learned to learn to work with everybody and be a part of the team.
Speaker 1:And you know, have a team first mentality and try and bring that to the to the shift we get the kind of supervisor that would because we've all done it, we've all seen it, we've all witnessed it where a supervisor shows up first holds the scene and then lets the let's the other guy come in and do all the paperwork.
Speaker 2:And I'm assuming, just knowing you and knowing what kind of comp you are, you probably want that guy but explain what your leadership style was so my leadership style was, you know, lead by example yeah and you know I would go and make arrests and take reports and whatever I needed to do to to help out is what I did not, not a do as I say, not as I do.
Speaker 1:Type person right yeah, and that's that's crucial. We're gonna get into that. We're gonna dive off into why that's so important here, here a little bit with another agency that you went to work for, so how long in the Gummer County total.
Speaker 2:I was there for 10 years. 2007 ended up promoting disorient and I was the sergeant there, one of our left and what was your departure there?
Speaker 3:where'd you go?
Speaker 2:I went to Williamson County Sheriff's Office. What year is that? That was in 2007. Okay, what brought you to Wilco? So I went to a driving instructor school and I just happened to meet one of the instructors from from Wilco there and said tell me about it. And I was looking to getting closer to to Waco, because that's where my parents still live. Make sense and get out of the Houston area.
Speaker 3:Yeah, houston's Houston yeah, I get gotcha. Where'd you come in? Where'd you step in the door to Wilco as?
Speaker 2:patrol deputy, and what year was that?
Speaker 3:that was in 2007 2007 okay, how long did you do that?
Speaker 2:I did that for about a year and a half and that promoted detective and worked every kind of crime that there was, until I saw that there was a need for detective to work auto theft and I started working auto theft and I ended working auto theft at Montgomery County.
Speaker 3:Did you have any involvement in association?
Speaker 2:I did not. You know, I was thinking about that on my way up here today. Is that? You know, as a young officer, I didn't want to be involved in politics whatsoever. I didn't even want to vote for sheriff, you know, I just wanted to go to work and do my job.
Speaker 1:But as the years have gone on, you've seen that there's a necessary involvement in politics yep, yeah, that's probably the number one answer is that I don't want to be involved in politics, so I don't believe police or politics should be in police, but the reality is that it is, and it very much is within the department, outside the department. This likely event we did today. If we're not involved in politics, then who the hell is if nobody's speaking for us and we don't have anybody speaking for us?
Speaker 2:you know you're relying on the politicians exactly talking about exactly.
Speaker 3:Well, the best analogy I've heard is you can be involved and have a seat at the table yeah or get served up on the menu yeah and not have a choice yeah. I was Joe Gamaldi, if I'm correct yeah better to be sitting at the table dining than on the menu yeah, served yeah, so left Montgomery County, came to Wilco, started as a patrol deputy. How long were you here before you started some involvement with the local association?
Speaker 2:so I became president in 2014 part of that.
Speaker 3:Just a member, yeah.
Speaker 2:I was just, I was always a member. You know, even in Montgomery County I was a member of the local. They had gotten civil service at Montgomery County and in fact, because I want, wanted to be a member of the association, I had to join the other guys and so I was a member of the other guys for a period of probably five or six years before I came back to TNPA glad to have you back.
Speaker 3:Thank you, it's good to be back. So when you came to Wilco, you joined the local, hung out for several years and then the first time you ran was as president yes, so start big go big or go go big or go home.
Speaker 2:We actually, in 2013, there was a bunch of pay issues that had come up and the president ended up promoting the sergeant and we had a. One of our bylaws was that a sergeant couldn't hold a board position, so he stepped down and the vice president took over, and at that time, jason Walden and I decided that it was time for us to leave the association. Take it down a different path shout out to Jason.
Speaker 3:He's a Palestinian PD now, so you guys took over. Who was sheriff at that time?
Speaker 2:James Wilson sure things pretty smooth.
Speaker 3:You guys took over as new leadership or things fairly stable then, or you thought they were unstable and you just had no clue what was yet in store things were stable.
Speaker 2:Looking back on it, we thought that they weren't, we thought that everything was just going to be the same old, the same old thing, and we thought that, you know, we needed change, we needed to become, you know, a more progressive department, and so we were looking for new leadership at the top and when did that change? Well, that happened 2015, 2016, dad leave in the bad step.
Speaker 2:Dad moved 2015 2015, I think it's whenever everybody started putting their names in the hat and there were five people that were running on the Republican side for sheriff. One of them was one of my lie lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. And so after we, as the association, decided to endorse Chote, I had to sit down with him and have a conversation with him that you know our endorsement was going to Chote and he ended up, he ended up winning the.
Speaker 1:Republican nomination. But he had also what. We can edit this out if we need to. He was financially able to fund his own campaign because of a lottery hit. Yes, he was a former APD guy, so he was. It wouldn't like he. This was just a normal person either.
Speaker 2:No, and he was, so he was the elected constable at the time.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:And so he had already laid that, that groundwork, and you know he had started putting his name out there again and you know he funded his own campaign and so, and when you have a endless supply of funds for your campaign, you can do a whole lot yeah. You can. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So I've never worked in a sheriff's department. I've taken five bassoon calls from sheriff's departments in the last 13 years but I've never been a part of one. How fast Like we have two counties up in my area that every share of change, january 1st, our phone blows up because they don't get rehired. Um, and I know there's a lot of politics that goes on. But how long was the honeymoon phase before you guys began to realize? We thought things were bad before. This is a train wreck.
Speaker 2:Um, it lasted almost two years the honeymoon. Yeah, about a year and a half. Um, and you know I mean things were. You know they're chugging along good. Association and him getting you got along. We had meetings all the time Um. He called me. I called him um to discuss various issues. Um, and you know I said things are going good.
Speaker 1:The arrogance just got to him.
Speaker 2:So some people call it the case of the rabbit raccoon. And he came into work one day and a rabbit raccoon call had been holding for over 24 hours and he completely not only lost his shit I thought you were kidding. No, I'm serious, it's a heart attack.
Speaker 3:That was the call.
Speaker 2:That was the call that pretty much flipped the switch. And um to win, um, they just started hammering down on everybody.
Speaker 3:Nobody's doing their jobs Wow.
Speaker 1:And working at a sheriff's office to your point. It's not like working at a police department, where you and I both have have experienced and you do now too. It's a different environment. It's almost like working under a king. That's the best way I can describe working inside a sheriff's office. Is being under a king, kiss the ring or pay the price. Yeah, that's 100% the way it is. I shouldn't say every single sheriff's office, I should say a majority, a lot of sheriff's offices in Texas.
Speaker 3:No, because we have some damn good ones. Yes, yeah, like at a school. So where? Where? Say it one more time?
Speaker 1:At a scosa. I said it on record. I've been practicing day in and day out at a scosa sheriff's office, sure. So, uh, and several other sheriffs out there in Texas and not not. There's not every sheriff's bad. Uh, even the ones that I don't care for aren't horrible, but it's like they get this arrogance about them, but it's almost like he worked for a king and it's just like you said. It's like kiss the, kiss the ring Right. So like I understand where you're coming from, or that flip the switch, or uh, they just walk in one day, or they just get lazy when they don't show up to the office and everybody else is supposed to be working, but then they get upset when, when, when, they think that you're not but they're at the house, you know, partying and doing whatever they want to do, and it's just. It's just. It's just not a good mindset and not a good place. It's not a good workplace environment to work at Right, it's horrible.
Speaker 3:So I know we discussed earlier we're going to do an episode on this specific, but to talk peripheral about it before we we get Jason down here and dive into that as a whole, what do you know now that you wish you had known then, as far as association, leadership, guidance, what, what is there anything that you look back and think, man, I wish I had known. Or I would go back and press harder here, or not press harder, what. What do you in general? What? What did you learn or what do you think would be beneficial for others to know that may have a similar chief or sheriff like that?
Speaker 2:Well, so I started coming to TNPA conference I think 2014 was my first one and one of the things that is heart on is you need to build your relationships with your elected officials, you need to build your relationship with the community, and so we started off and we we were doing that. We were having meetings with our commissioners, court members and you know, a lot of times it was like ramming our heads into a, into a brick wall, you know. And whenever we took over the deputies association, we wanted to start a pack. Well then we started looking at bylaws and IRS status and found out that we were in default and we're not pretty much a non-existent organization. So we ended up having to do a lot of work behind the scenes in order to fix that, so that we could start up the political action committee, so that we could have that tool in our toolbox in order to be able to influence.
Speaker 3:And I'm glad you clarified- that for non-associated people that are involved in associations law. He said a pack, not a packed forming a packed like a pinky promise. Packed a pack is a political action, political action committee that gives an association or anybody that files to have a pack, a voice on the legislative side.
Speaker 1:And there's guidelines and so many strict outlines of what you've got to follow in order to have that pack, because it's needed and everybody's got to follow those.
Speaker 3:And so you guys got a pack, started building political capital and for our listeners, political capital and for association leaders out there that are new in the arena. What he's talking about is you know if you're going to affect change but you don't know who's on your city council. You don't know who your county commissioners are, you don't know who's out there. It's hard to affect change when the leaders don't even know who you are. And you build your friendships and your relationships, your political capital, during peace. So when nothing's going on, that's when you build your relationships with community activists, with business owners, your county commissioners, and then you have a friendship and a relationship that, if something does go sideways, you've built a relationship of trust where then you can try and attempt to tackle. But you build that political capital and you store it in the bank and then, if you need to cash out a little bit, you've got it in store and there's a lot of times people don't want to put in the sweat equity to build those relationships and when you're bankrupt you don't have anything to spend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, Did you have a strong involved board or was it kind of you and Jason trying to? And I'm not setting you up for a bad answer A lot of associations because of apathy. A lot of times it's one or two people trying to run a three or 400 man association, or 300 or 300, 300 or 400 men and women in this, but they all have families and part-time jobs and so it's usually one or two people trying to keep the thing float. Or did you have a pretty engaged board? Was there?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we had at least our board. They were dedicated. They came to the board meetings that they call the association meetings that we had, you know, whenever we didn't be responsive, they were. But it's just like any association board, you know, unless there's an issue at hand that usually has to do with pay, then you're only going to have a handful of people from the board that are that are heavily involved in that.
Speaker 3:And you guys had a good turnout. When needed, I MC'd a candidate forum there at the end, working to get the new sheriff, sheriff Gleason, in, and you guys threw together a really professional candidate forum. Had a good turnout of community and candidates.
Speaker 2:Well, that wasn't me, but I was going by that time.
Speaker 3:Well, we can talk about that too if you'd like but the organization, the association in general, went through some damn rocky times but it survived, came out the other end and even with Chody weaponizing another association as a front to try and counter what you guys were doing, it still remained cohesive and was still a viable organization, which sometimes doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:Right. It's surprising that they they stuck it out stuck together even after Chody kept firing association presidents.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it got Western. I mean, it got it got really Western there for a while.
Speaker 1:Let's dive in, because that's really where I think you and I know each other from, like some legislation days. For those that don't know, tnpa is considering I've heard hosting some more legislative days. I think that's where you and I had met maybe the first time. But I'm often to really how your TNPA involvement kicked off really heavily whenever you were terminated from Wilco and then what that, what that road looked like and what TNPA involvement was after the fact Right.
Speaker 2:You know I've I had open communication with TNPA the entire time that I was on the association board, just like you had said. I came to legislative days, I came to conference, I built relationships with people over that time and you know so I was able. Any issues that came up, I was able to address them. I was able to come to board meetings and address the board about issues that came up, and the time that I needed TNPA most, you know they were. They were in my corner, they had my back, and that was in February of 2019, whenever I saw a sheriff's office employee working on the sheriff's personal Polaris and I knew, the instant that I saw that, that I had to report it, but I also needed legal representation to guide me down the down the path of that.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, and there was so much going on at the end that all you guys weren't just association members. Y'all were quickly kind of becoming whistleblowers because of the criminal conduct that was a lot of. It was being blatant in front of everybody and so it wasn't just a commitment that I'm an association, I represent the masses, I'm a freaking whistleblower. I'm watching criminal activity that I have a duty to report. That's a hell of a predicament for people to be placed in reporting your boss right and especially the the king, yeah, yeah and talk about the situation, because some people don't know because it's been so many years from now.
Speaker 1:Talk about the climate with the introduction, because we can continue this with part two. But the live PD introduction and really that was the demise of, of of Chote. In my opinion, that's really when Chote began to the downhill spiral was he became his ego got in the way. So if you want to kind of talk about the live PD intro, how it affected your apartment, how it affected Williamson County as a whole and the safety of the citizens and what all went into that, well, chote decided that he wanted live PD to come in because he thought that it was going to be good for the department.
Speaker 2:You know, he wanted people to participate. He wanted, you know, to have just like it is on TV. But what he found was is that no one wanted to participate from the department because we weren't, we weren't built like that. We wanted to come to work, we wanted to do our jobs and we wanted to go home. So ultimately, he ended up finding people that would do it, and some people were hired that had some questionable backgrounds that they came in. They were on live PD, you know, and they, they made it.
Speaker 3:They made it work for them right up until it didn't well, and when you say you guys weren't built for it, you wanted to come in, do your job and go home, you're not saying you guys weren't coming in to protect citizens and put criminals in jail. You guys didn't want to come in and be prostitutes or be puppets to go pervert justice for entertainment purposes. That's exactly right. And ultimately, you know, unfortunately sometimes you watch those police shows and you can tell guys are hamming it up for the camera or, yeah, doing stupid stuff on camera and that's the downfall of some of those shows.
Speaker 3:Is not everybody's built to be able to not not juice it up, and the downfall of some of those shows are is, and there's a bunch of examples we'll get into when we do part two of this. But, lady, justice isn't something that was meant to be prostituted out and unfortunately that's where that led right and people with character and the duty to serve honorably to their community didn't want to be a part of it. And there's a whole lot of you guys and and and he started taking you out one at a time. I mean one and two at a time.
Speaker 2:If you didn't want to kiss the ring any longer or play prostitute for the TV show, that you can leave right um, yeah, he, I mean, and he pretty much started with, uh, with the canine unit and, um, you know, found about a group, found out about a group text that had some questionable texts in it I forgot about that and, uh, you know, he ended up firing two of the canine handlers and taking dogs away from others.
Speaker 1:Um, what's the questionable text? Just uh, maybe not personal tax against the king, or was it?
Speaker 3:oh yeah, we're tired of this. This is stupid, this stupid crap we're having to do for him. So he gave a direct order that he see all their text. Because, because the, the minions, weren't impressed with the king any longer. Essentially, wouldn't it right?
Speaker 2:um, yeah, and there were memes that were created that were making fun of um the king, the no, not the king a commander, um, but uh, you know. And then, yeah, there were a bunch of comments about you know it and lot PD and um, uh, yeah, and so uh, yeah they weren't very happy about that, and so they uh, they killed off the two of them and reassigned others how many total man, because it seemed like in about nine months.
Speaker 3:How many get? How many got booted or fled prior? Ran out just ahead of the posse.
Speaker 2:I I don't even know the number of what ended up being terminated um.
Speaker 3:I had more than a dozen, wasn't?
Speaker 2:it. Oh, at least um, I think that number I'd heard was like 17 or terminated um, you know, and some of the good cops I mean good, good freaking cops, the count.
Speaker 3:If you were a chief you'd want them to come to work for you, but they weren't going to play the game and, and you know, be a puppet and and kiss the ring and and go chase video, a video camera, live camera, yeah, you know, and a lot of good people's careers were damaged absolutely, um, and so, yeah, that is pretty much the canine thing is what started.
Speaker 2:I think that was in March of 2019 I'd forgotten that, um, it's whenever he fired the the canine officers, um, or canine deputies, um.
Speaker 3:And then, uh, yeah, I reported the, the theft and they found out about it and I was fired on July 3rd of 2019 being terminated, losing your paycheck, losing your career is devastating in law enforcement because it you know, if you're a banker and you get fired, you can go to the bank down the street and get hired again. Um, in law enforcement, it's devastating. How long did it take you to get back on your feet again?
Speaker 2:well, um, the major issue that I had was that, you know, they, they didn't even just leave it at termination. Um, they gave me a dishonorable discharge on my f5 um that they initially said that they were going to uh be sure and fight in court, and um, so we had to go through the process of discovery, um, and then they ended up not complying with discovery and because they had no intent of ever going to the solo hearing, uh, to begin with, and so that my dishonorable was changed to honorable in february of 2020 damn so.
Speaker 2:From march to february, from july, july till february um so luckily, um, you know, uh, I reached out, uh, to a friend of mine at leander pd and you know, I saw that they had a posting and I wanted to go to work for leander and asked him if the chief would even let me test. And so, uh, he'd said, yeah, tell him to come test and to get changed to honorable. And you know, everything is as he says, it is. Um then, and yeah, he's got a shot, and so, luckily they, uh they decided to take that chance on me, good, and gave me, gave me a shot, and uh, that that chief's got a lot of heart and a lot of will to do that, because leander is is in will, is in wiliamson, county right, it's half in wiliamson and half in travis.
Speaker 1:So for him to do that says a lot and it's a big risk for him professionally and politically, because now you're kind of going against the grain by hiring, you know, a has been from the sheriff's office. Well what's?
Speaker 3:cool is and it's not cool, but what was what I liked watching was as the public began to learn what Chote really was. Yeah, the officers getting shown the door began to have an easier time getting in other places because they realized the officer wasn't there, the deputy wasn't an issue, sheriff's issue, so there wasn't this cloud hanging over them as bad Once the truth about Chote came out, that and this is a train wreck going on over there and it seemed like folks and I'm not saying it was easy for you, but it seemed like, as that drug on people began to, that cloud wouldn't as big over their head when they tried to get out of there.
Speaker 2:You know, what was funny is is that you know, we lived in our Williamson County bubble and, you know we thought that we didn't know that the world was paying attention to Williamson County Sheriff's office. And I got hired at Leander and you know, I quickly found, as I started interacting and becoming friends with the people that were there, that they've been following my story from the beginning on social media. And in fact, one day I was sitting in the break room eating lunch and the chief was in there and some other people in there and somebody accused me of being the social media personality of Buddy Falcon and I said, well, I'm not Buddy Falcon and I don't know who is Buddy Falcon and I don't want to know who Buddy Falcon is. And the chief looked over at me and he said I'm Buddy Falcon, we're all Buddy Falcon. Oh, and so that was whenever I started finding that you know Leander, cedar Park, round Rock, williamson County, travis County, apd everybody was following the shit show.
Speaker 2:It was on national news, it was, it was literally on national news, all following it and every true blue-blooded cop was pissed off as to what he was doing to that agency in our profession.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you look at him now.
Speaker 2:How long?
Speaker 3:How long from your termination date were you hired at Leander? It was right at eight months. Golly man, did you work side hustles? Did you cut hay? What's that? How do you make ends meet for eight months? Because it would devastate we're all. All cops are freaking almost paycheck to paycheck. What do you do for eight months, brother, right?
Speaker 2:So luckily I had gotten into a custom hay baling and so I had that to do through the summer and I have set myself up financially to where I'm not living, paycheck to paycheck, and so I was able to make it through. And you know, with unemployment and paycheck insurance I was able to make it through through that Good.
Speaker 3:And a little selling grass and selling a little bit of hay.
Speaker 1:Well, what I think is cool is the fact that now that you're sitting on the board of directors and now you kind of oversee and play, put policies and guidelines in place for our members across the state, you being a victim of piss, poor leadership. I think it's cool to kind of see this rotation of of of how the life, of how life works.
Speaker 1:The full circle full circle, man, and now that you're sitting on the board of an organization that essentially unseated with, with other, with help of others, an individual that caused wreak and havoc with so many lives, that's that's a cool testament. That's a cool thing to be, to sit here and see where you're at today. You see how happy you are, uh, cause there was a point where I didn't. I saw you and you weren't happy and you didn't have a smile on your face, cause you were, you were going through some pretty bad shit, um. So kudos to you, man.
Speaker 1:I, I, I know I appreciate it, clint appreciates it, but our, our members damn sure appreciate it. And I think it's a scar that our members can kind of resonate with, because so many times, just like I told you, working for a sheriff's office, I understand where you're coming from and I understand where other members come from that do work at poor leadership. Sheriff's offices that are ran that way Kiss the ring is a real thing and it's not the way it should be and it's not the way it it needs to be, and I think it's us to up it's. It's us, it's up to us, uh, to change that culture and I don't know how long it's going to take, but uh, you know, time will tell.
Speaker 2:Right. And you know, and I think that, because I was, my health was suffering. Um, because, whenever you go to work every single day, uh, wondering, is today the day that I'm I'm going to get fired? You know it, it takes its toll on you. And uh, you know, Williams County had mandatory health screening, screening, and so I'd gone to that mandatory health screening so that we could get the discount on our insurance and found that I had high blood pressure. And uh, the doctor's like, oh, I think that it's energy drinks that you drink, or you know, coffee. I was like, well, it's probably the stress in my life, but you know what I'll, I'll give anything a shot. And uh, so I quit drinking energy drinks and found that my stress level was still up, my blood pressure was still up, and a week after I was terminated, my blood pressure went back, went back to normal.
Speaker 2:Wow, One thing that people don't think of this. They're like oh, if you're so miserable, if you're so unhappy, you know, once you just go find another job. Well, the secret of within law enforcement, where we know the deal is, is that you know, if I'm a IT and I've been doing IT for 20 years I can go get a job, work in IT, down the street and they're going to pay me as a 20 year IT guy, but law enforcement isn't like that and so I can't go over, you know, to round rock or to Lander or to anywhere, and you know be paid what my experience is worth, and that's something that's been failing in while officers are stuck.
Speaker 1:Well, not even that I mean it. Other other professions typically had that same schedule, eight to five, monday through Friday, and you had been there for quite some time and built up a tenure where you were probably Monday through Friday. You were in CID. So I give that. I mean, why give that up and then and then have the risk? So I understand where you're coming from and I understand what the point you're trying to make, and I think others others will too Right, the beautiful thing about karma I'm.
Speaker 3:I love me some karma, and the beautiful thing about karma is life's full circle. Because he he kicked a bunch of you guys. He kicked you. He thought he destroyed your careers permanently. Here you sit, on the board for the largest police association in the state of Texas and one of the largest in the country. Here you sit today on the board for that gainfully employed, with a professional police department, still have your custom hay bale and business Family is doing well. You said you had a great holidays In. The tyrant that kicked all you guys is a is a twice indicted felon. That's a nobody in the community and he's the laughing stock of law enforcement. I love karma. Sometimes it takes days, sometimes it takes years, but she always, she always arrives when she always arrives, absolutely, yeah, you're 46, 47, 47. Just turn 47. How many years total in LA?
Speaker 2:26.
Speaker 3:What is Brian's what's? What's been your best day you've ever had? What's your worst?
Speaker 2:I'd say the the worst is a combination of about the last six months at Williamson County. The best day was the day I got sworn in the first time. I was so excited and, you know, so ready to you know, go forth and serve the community and, you know, do great things and you know, and there's been a lot, of, a lot of good things that have that have come throughout this career. It took going back back to what I knew of patrol and going back to Lander and going to work for an agency that cared about their people and to help me see that again, where it actually made the job fun again. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome Going back to fundamentals Right.
Speaker 3:What would 47 year old Brian Johns say if 17 year old Brian Johns walked in the door right now? Anything, whatever. What would 47 year old Brian Johns say to 17 year old Brian. Johns go to law school. That's mine too. My boys asked me the other day what would you do all over again. So I kind of thought I would go to law school.
Speaker 2:I mean I would have to done better in college so my undergrad to be able to go to law school.
Speaker 3:That's mine too, but I like that. That's a good answer. I like that one.
Speaker 1:Well, you got anything else, but it looks like we're going to continue this with part two.
Speaker 3:What do we miss other than what we're going to talk about part two? What do we miss? You want to hit on?
Speaker 1:I don't think how attractive Tyler is.
Speaker 3:I know you're wondering. Oh my God, shut up. Tyler is right, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, we're going to go ahead and end and continue with the three rapid fire questions that we end each podcast with, unless you have anything else to say.
Speaker 3:No sir.
Speaker 1:You're full of shit and vinegar today, all right, so listen your favorite cop car, favorite cop movie or line from a cop movie and favorite drink of choice.
Speaker 2:So you're going to hate me for this, but the 94 Caprice.
Speaker 3:Oh my God, I knew, I freaking love this man.
Speaker 1:Thank y'all so much for tuning in. No, let's go a little longer. Let's go for a while longer.
Speaker 2:But as far as functionality, to me you can't beat the Tahoe right now. As far as what's wrong with that, I agree with that.
Speaker 1:I agree with that right now, right, yeah, not all the time. I wrote in the backseat of one of the day I did legitimately for a camera angle, but it sounded bad. I'll have to continue that. Next.
Speaker 2:Next episode, right, favorite cop movie, or line from the best Christmas movie of all time Die hard.
Speaker 1:There you go.
Speaker 2:There you go, and then a bullet ride.
Speaker 3:That specific man. I like it Neat or on the rock.
Speaker 2:On the rock.
Speaker 3:On the rock. That's my man, yeah.
Speaker 2:I did finally try Angel Senty oh a couple of weeks ago and it was good, Did?
Speaker 1:it. Didn't tear you down. No.
Speaker 2:I didn't have the negative experience.
Speaker 3:You're not sleeping. To pull up.
Speaker 1:Oh, that was shitty. Wow, I'm not to explain that one later on. Okay, here it is. Guys, I made a drink a little bit too much Angel Zimmy one night and I made a wet the bed. I'm calling it out there, it happens. And you know, sorry, it depends. It depends you like that punchline depends. If you guys want to be a sponsor for this podcast show, you can give us a call at 1-800-848-2088. We'd love to have your money.
Speaker 2:Big boy, pull ups, yeah, lane you got anything else I'll take, so be looking forward to episode two.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely yeah, that'll be good. We'll get Jason down here from Palestine, yeah, and we can kick it around. That'll be a good one. That'll be a good one. And I think a lot of members can dive in and relate to not going through a specific incident, but going through hard times working for a bad leadership. And yeah, man, what hit home with me when you said your best and worst days, because sometimes it's like, oh, my worst day was, you know, my death or whatever. And when things are toxic, bad toxic at work under a toxic leader, there's not much more worse on your body, like ulcers. And I mean this stress is freaking real and I know that it's going to resonate when we talk about that in part two with a bunch of people. Is the stress is real? When they call us they're in a crisis? When it's your paycheck, your career, feeding your families on the line, that's a crisis.
Speaker 1:Well, because you have to put this face on when you walk through the door. Your kids don't deserve to be treated like shit. You know what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:Or the shit is on the call yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, it's just a domino effect. Really, it's what it is. You got to put this fake face on at work and everything's fine, and you got to come home and put this fake face on that you're this great husband and great dad and it's just a just a bad situation. So, anyway, part two, stay to part two, All right. Well, hey, you guys stay safe out there. God bless you. You got anything else, nothing else.
Speaker 3:Nothing else going to once in. God bless Texas.
Speaker 1:I guess we're out, we're out, bye.
