Live Your Extraordinary Life With Michelle Rios

Navigating Grief and Mental Health with Dr. Monica Krishnan

• Michelle Rios • Episode 53

Share episode

Send us a text

Have you ever felt the weight of the world's expectations pressing down on you, whispering that who you are isn't enough? Join me, Michelle Rios, as I sit down with Dr. Monica Krishnan, who shares her transformative journey toward authenticity, peeling back the layers of societal and familial pressures to embrace the joy of being true to oneself. We delve into Monica's heartrending rebirth through the grief of losing her husband, and how she channeled her resilience into advocacy, lighting the way for others navigating their darkest hours.

Loss and healing often intertwine, leading us down paths to discover our core identity and life's purpose. This episode isn't just about facing life's relentless pressures; it's about finding hope and empowerment in them. Dr. Krishnan's experiences with Eastern spirituality and the profound silence of a Vipassana retreat illustrate the shifts that can occur when we are brave enough to sit with discomfort and listen to the whispers of our souls. The journey we embark on here is one of spirituality and self-discovery, a conversation that challenges us to consider our own spiritual awakenings and the universal connections that bind us.

As we wrap up this profound and moving episode, we reflect on how embracing our natural gifts and the lessons learned through adversity can guide us toward an extraordinary life. Stay connected and join our supportive community as we eagerly anticipate Dr. Krishnan's upcoming children's book, which promises to further inspire resilience and joy. Together, we are reminded that we are not just humans on a spiritual journey, but spiritual beings on a human journey—each with our own extraordinary story to tell.

Connect with Dr. Monica Krishnan
IG: https://www.instagram.com/drmonicapharmd/

Connect with Michelle Rios:
IG: https://www.instagram.com/michelle.rios.official/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/michelle.c.rios
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@michelleriosofficial
Website: https://michelleriosofficial.com

Speaker 1:

Use your voice to share your opinion, to stand up for yourself, to advocate for yourself, because no one else is coming to save you. You are the only person who can save yourself.

Speaker 2:

Hi, I'm Michelle Rios, host of the Live your Extraordinary Life podcast. This podcast is built on the premise that life is meant to be joyful, but far too often we settle for less. So if you've ever thought that something is missing from your life, that you were meant for more, or you simply want to experience more joy in the everyday, then this podcast is for you. Each week, I'll bring you captivating personal stories, transformative life lessons and juicy conversations on living life to the fullest, with the hope to inspire you to create a life you love on your terms, with authenticity, purpose and connection. Together, we'll explore what it means to live an extraordinary life, the things that hold us back and the steps we all can take to start living our best lives. So come along for the journey. It's never too late to get started, and the world needs your light. Hello everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of the Live your Extraordinary Life podcast.

Speaker 2:

I'm your host, michelle Rios, and I am thrilled to introduce to you my new friend, dr Monica Krishnan. Monica is a clinical pharmacist. She is a mental health and grief advocate. She's a medical writer. She's a mom to two beautiful teenage daughters. Medical writer. She's a mom to two beautiful teenage daughters, and she's a soon-to-be author. So without further ado, monica, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1:

Thank you, michelle. It's an absolute honor to be here with you and I'm so excited for this conversation.

Speaker 2:

I am too. We have known each other now I want to say a few months, but really through the wonderful technology that is social media and we both sort of found each other and I always love to say, not by accident. There's this deep gravitational pull and I've been hooked ever since. I'm a big fan and I really am excited to kind of dig in and talk more about your journey, because that's what we do on this show, right. We really want to dig into what does it mean to live an extraordinary life, and what is it through your story, through your journey, that you've learned that we can share with our audience. So with that background, I'm going to go ahead and ask you our very first question, which is what does it mean to you to live your extraordinary life?

Speaker 1:

Very powerful question. I was just reflecting on this question last week and to me, to live an extraordinary life is to live a life that's authentic to me, to choose me to be myself, me to be myself. And we live in a world where we spend most of our lives pleasing others, from family to societal expectations. And when you were, just remove all these labels that are on you, michelle, like sister, daughter, partner, mother, pharmacist, author, and you tap into the spirit within and you find your true essence. That, to me, is living a life that's extraordinary.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. And yet I think it's one of those things where it feels so daunting for some people who haven't yet gotten to this place of what does it mean to be your true self? It's a journey. It's not like we come out and we're unscathed. I think you go through this period of childhood for a brief amount of time where we're probably our truest selves, but slowly and surely we start to be molded and conditioned by family values, societal expectations, cultural expectations, and then we sort of lose ourselves in this process. That's often what happens. Tell us a little bit about your journey, just as a woman, kind of growing up in Indian culture. You grew up in the States, in Southern California, yes, so I grew up in Los Angeles.

Speaker 1:

Actually, I'll go back track. I was born in London and moved to the US, california, when I was seven years old. I was raised by immigrant Indian parents who were born and raised in India but moved to London, then moved to California. My parents are probably the wisest people I know. I've had the blessing of a beautiful childhood, so much love, so much warmth, and today my parents are the most amazing grandparents to my children and probably the biggest support system when my biggest challenge in life came.

Speaker 2:

Well, let's talk a little bit about that, because I do think people who meet you who don't know your story are going to come to the conclusion. First of all, a little bit about that, because I do think people who meet you who don't know your story are going to come to the conclusion, first of all, for all our listeners. Hopefully you'll also go look at some of the reels online and you'll go to the YouTube channel, but Monica is absolutely stunning. So not only is she incredibly educated and professional and articulate, but she's absolutely beautiful educated and professional and articulate, but she's absolutely beautiful. So I'm sure when people meet you for the first time, not knowing your story, they're just like this woman has it all and then some, but, like everyone, there's a story there. Take us on that journey and tell us what has been your journey and sort of like the awakening that you've had to go through in your life.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So in 2011, my life basically turned upside down. I hit rock bottom. I lost my husband to cancer. Now I found myself in this world raising two babies alone. They were only three and five at that time, I found myself without a job. I had quit my job as a pharmacist for two years to be a full-time caretaker to my husband. So I, all of a sudden, at the age of 35, no job, no husband, trying to figure out how to pay bills, going to sell my house and I've got these two babies. How am I going to do this? And I found myself figuring out. I need help. So I sold my house where I was currently living, moved up to a town called Valencia where my parents live, bought a house 10 minutes away from them. And here I am trying to figure out like, okay, how do I build this new life and navigate this crazy journey and provide for these two children?

Speaker 2:

How did you do it? I mean, that's just a lot. First of all, 35, I was just starting to figure out a little bit about who I was. I still think everything before 40 is just research. Right, I think that's Carl Jung quote. Everything before 40 is just research. So here you are, at's Carl Jung quote. Everything before 40 is just research. So here you are at 35, no job, husband's passed away, you're dealing with the grief of the loss and uprooting your whole life, and you have two babies that you're raising. How do you walk through each day? Because I think for a lot of people just one of those things in and of themselves would be a lot, and you're dealing with the trifecta of grief and what it would be trying for anybody.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I also like to say that my grief was complicated, because not only was I dealing with the grief of losing my husband, I was also dealing with the grief of a very complicated marriage, a very complicated family that I had married into. There was a huge emotional component of it where I wasn't treated well. So all I knew at that point is that I needed my family. I needed help from my family where I felt safe my mom, my dad, my brother, friends that were family to me. I needed to seek something that was familiar, and so the first month was a blur. I literally just moved into my parents' home and I said you handle the kids for a month. And I remember like being on Xanax for a month because I was having panic attacks and anxiety attacks and insomnia, and that first month was a blur. And then I woke up one day and I was like, okay, I need to go find a job. And so I started looking for jobs, kept getting rejections. People would ask me well, how come you haven't worked in two years? And so I would have to share my story and I'd be crying at interviews.

Speaker 1:

And then a miracle happened. One day I was at a grocery store and next to this grocery store was this small independent pharmacy called Saga's Drugs, and I literally Michelle was in yoga clothes, I had my hair put up, I did not look professional and I walked into this pharmacy. Something guided me to go into this pharmacy, some higher divine power. I walked all the way back into the pharmacy and this gentleman comes up to me and he's like Hi, are you here to pick up a prescription? And I'm like no, actually I'm looking for a job. He's like wow, our weekend pharmacist just put in his notice we are hiring a pharmacist, we are looking for a pharmacist. And I said, oh my God, I am looking for a weekend job, I'll take anything. So this happened on a Friday and then on the following Monday I had an official interview and I got a job.

Speaker 1:

It's like divine intervention, this pharmacy till this day, probably one of my favorite jobs in the past 25 years that I've done. It's a small independent pharmacy close to my parents' home, very homey, small, and it was my home for the first five years while I was battling high functioning depression. So everyone that I worked with kind of held my hand during the first few years when I dove back into my career.

Speaker 2:

Amazing. So was it on this grief journey, and as a clinical pharmacist by profession, that you realized, through your own mental health diagnosis and going through the grief and what have you, that you wanted to become an advocate? Or was it sort of something that just evolved because the work you do?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I put on a lot of self-stigma. I said to myself oh, I'm not depressed. It's normal to cry this much Until a year later. So this is 2012,. I walked into my doctor's office and I said I need help. I need help with medication, and I remember starting to share this with patients at work because they're dealing with stigma, and here I am educating them on the benefits of if you need to use a medication it's part of the mental health toolbox use it. So it just started becoming like this beautiful, natural way of just sharing the science and wisdom of all tools mental health including medication.

Speaker 1:

But in 2018, I was invited to do my very first public speaking engagement and I've never done up until then, I never did public speaking engagements. I was invited to do my very first public speaking engagement and I've never done up until then, I never did public speaking engagements. I was actually nervous. I didn't know how to speak in front of a camera. And so in 2018, I did my very first podcast episode, called Smashing the Stigma, and I did the entire episode in tears because I was sharing my vulnerability, my story, my grief, my mental health struggles. And after that, things just started to naturally evolve and I'm like huh, I think I need to continue to do this work, because so many people were starting to reach out and say, oh my God, your episode was fantastic, can you share more? So it just felt like I was just meant to do this.

Speaker 2:

You share a story about a young girl who, I think, went into a pharmacy one day and was talking to you about having suicidal thoughts. Can you share a little bit about that story, because I think it's such a beautiful expression and demonstration of how important it is for us to share our vulnerability and share our stories with others.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so this was actually during COVID and this mom and daughter came in. It was a time when the whole world was going through this huge mental health crisis and the impact that it had on teens and adolescents. I saw front hand as working at Walmart. So she comes in and she has a prescription for an antidepressant.

Speaker 1:

Her mom and her disclose in confidentiality that she's been cutting herself and it was just very hard for me to hear, especially as a mom of teenagers, and we just started talking about what's making her sad. Talking about what's making her sad like what is causing her to feel like she no longer should be on this earth. And she started opening up a little bit. And then I just paused and I said you know what? Can I share something with you? And I shared with her my dark struggles. I shared with her what happened to me. I shared with her the stigma that I faced, the stigma that society put on me, especially as a South Asian woman.

Speaker 1:

I too, at one point had a brief, maybe five-second, thought of suicide when I was going through my dark times, and I shared that with her and I said I found some light to hold on to, to kind of bring me back from that dark tunnel and I realized that I needed help. And so I, after a year, went into the doctor's office and said, hey, I think I need help. So I just reassured her that there's no shame in having these thoughts, there's no shame in feeling this vulnerable, and I just commended her for her bravery, for telling her mom that she needed help, and then her mom just teamed up and figured out what they needed to do getting into the right therapist's office, getting on that medication. And today, this patient it's three years later and she's thriving and she's happy and she is a mental health advocate for her college.

Speaker 2:

I think this is so important to share for all of our listeners out there. You know, sometimes the people who are the most put together are the ones struggling and you just don't know what others are going through, and I think oftentimes we get stuck in our pain and our grief, thinking it must just be us, and why us and it's only us? Everyone else seems to be functioning fine and you're struggling, you're in pain, and the reality is that's most often never the case. And so, please, if you're getting to that point where you're considering that you need help or it feels like too much of a struggle to reach out. We're both very open about our own stories and our own struggles, and I think it's been one of the most authentic experiences of my life of deconstructing my own facade, if you will.

Speaker 2:

Michelle, the professional always had it. So together had this moment in time where it was very dark and I didn't know my way out, and it took others helping to shine the light on a path forward. So, just everyone out there listening, I hope that you heard the story. Whether you're a young teen or you're a professional, whatever's going on in your life, reach out for help, please.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I often say asking for help is a sign of bravery. Oh yeah, it takes a lot of courage to be vulnerable. It does, and I think people feel ashamed to ask for help, but I always say, nope, it's the opposite Asking for help whoever it is if it's support system from your family, from your friends, from a teacher, from whoever it is, ask for help. Whoever it is, if it's support system from your family, from your friends, from a teacher, from whoever it is, ask for help.

Speaker 2:

There was a story I actually shared this on my Instagram stories and it's tangential, but I'm going to share it because I think it's worth it about a young woman Do you remember this?

Speaker 2:

Earlier in the week, and she said we're all sitting in a lecture hall, the professor's going on and on. No one has a clue what's going on, but nobody dares to say anything, except for one woman in the lecture hall who raises her hand very smart individual and says I don't know, maybe it's just me and I'm gonna annoy everybody, but I don't have a clue what you're talking about. And she was so willing to be vulnerable and to me that's such a sign of strength, like how confident do you have to be to be in a lecture hall of probably three or 400 people and say I don't have a clue what we just talked about. It went right over my head. Could you please clarify? And so I think it's sort of the same thing People who are willing to say I don't know what's going on with me, but I don't feel like myself, it's just not. I don't feel like I'm doing well, I need help, usually talking helps.

Speaker 1:

Oh, my God, I think there's so much power in sharing your story. I think there's power in our vulnerability. I think there's so much power in our voice. And I know like, coming from a South Asian background. Women are expected to stay quiet, women are expected to not open their mouth, they're not allowed to share their opinion, they're not allowed to voice their thoughts or emotions, and it's a generation that just goes back hundreds and hundreds of years. My mom went through it in her marriage. I went through it in my marriage, but what I teach my daughters now is oh, no, no, you use your voice to share your opinion, to stand up for yourself, to advocate for yourself, because no one else is coming to save you. You are the only person who can save yourself.

Speaker 2:

That's right. That's a great segue into how is it that, when we are going through the darkest of times and it feels like we're not gonna see the other end of us, how is it, though, that, ultimately, pain is often the portal for finding our purpose in life? I know that's something that you've experienced, that your own grief has put you on this journey to become a mental health and grief advocate, and I often think people don't recognize that where they feel the most wounded, where they have experienced the most darkness, is probably where there is most opportunity to find their dharma, to find their purpose. Can you talk a little bit about that?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So it took me a while to figure out that I was in my dharma. I had to go through the first seven years of my journey getting the help that I needed. It was me battling high functioning depression, me getting Western treatment and then, when I started embracing Eastern medicine spirituality that is when I was like, oh, I think this is why I went through this, because I was starting to get people reaching out to me and say, hey, monica, this person's husband died, can you talk to this woman? And it started becoming often and I was like I'm actually having conversations with young women who I don't even know and I'm helping them navigate through their grief and mental health. And it's something that I still struggle with today because this journey of healing is forever. It's like an onion layer. There's always this like layer of like okay, this trauma and then this trauma and then this trauma.

Speaker 1:

But I feel like when I started doing my mental health advocacy work all these podcast interviews, my medical writing as a mental health advocate and then recently creating a children's book on mental health and grief that is when I came to stillness.

Speaker 1:

I realized like, okay, I would have never imagined 12 years ago, when I was sitting in a grief center with my children, that today I would be writing a children's book and I'm using the same grief center seen in my children's book. So that is when I was like I am in my dharma. This darkness that I went through, this pain that I went through, I went through it so I could be a voice to other women, other men, other families, to show that life is hard, life is not fair, it's a journey. But through spirituality I've learned that you will know when you're in your dharma and purpose is something. And I was reading this book called Practical Optimism by my friend, dr Sue Verma, and she talks about purpose. Purpose is not necessarily something you get paid for. Purpose is something that can be within you and if you are looking for it and you can't find it, you can create it because it's already instilled within you and you will know when you are in your dharma because life just flows.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely. I could not agree with you more. You know, I always talk about when someone's like I don't even know where to begin, how do I even know what my purpose is, and I often say, well, what brings you joy? But that's not connected to a profession. I'm like stop for a minute, what brings you joy? Because in your joy you often find what your natural gifts are. And if you can find your natural gifts, then you're going to be able to find a place to plug in, where it's going to feel like you're just in flow, where you're aligned to whatever. That is Not shocking. I'm here having a conversation with you, something I've always talked about. I want to have conversations, deep conversations, about the meaning of life, about what matters, about why we're here, about what it means to live an extraordinary life, Because to me, living an extraordinary life is getting into that place of flow.

Speaker 2:

Recognizing life isn't easy all the time that you're often going to feel sad, sadness, grief, anger, frustration, all of the things. But that's sort of the point, right? We're on this human journey and you're here to experience it all and how we navigate. It is the extraordinary part when you find that place inside you that's operating from love, despite the fact that you are wounded. We're reacting to situations not from a place of fear or a place of anger, but out of love.

Speaker 2:

Despite the fact that you've been hurt by others, you start to recognize. Wait, this is an extraordinary life. There's so much beauty, even in the dark places, If you allow yourself the time to heal and the space to reflect on what it's brought you through. You said something, and I know it's connected to your children's books I want to kind of stop there for a minute, and I think there's a quote out there that even talks about this like where the dark spots of you, the holes that are in you, is where the light pours through. Let's talk a little bit about your thoughts on that and how it connects to this book that you're working on.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I think that when you zoom out and you look at yourself as a whole, I think what spirituality has taught me? That our souls are here on earth to have experiences Simple, good, bad, neutral. That is it Every experience that we have gone through.

Speaker 1:

But I think that the difficult experiences that we've gone through create this Hindu word that we call mandala. Mandala is kind of like, if you look at this picture and it's got richness and color, those are your darkest life experiences and you are to have these experiences to evolve as a person, to grow as a person, to show you resilience. I think when you show up and you're like, oh, life is perfect and life is not hard, no, I think the courage and the resilience and the vulnerability and sharing your story that like, no, like, life is not easy, it is hard. That's where the true strength comes in and the true courage comes in. And, like you said, this is me, this is how I show up. I'm going to have good days, I'm going to have bad days, I'm going to have neutral days, but that's what it means to be a human, to feel it all.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, to feel it all and to know at the end of the day. I think it's one of those. When you figure out your set point and I think it's a decision you have to come to as an individual, whether it's through spirituality or some other way you get to this point where you decide either every negative experience is going to be something you try to shield yourself from and not go through and that makes life infinitely harder or you walk through it and you recognize that it's just another experience. It's tough, it's painful, but it's another part of the human experience. That's when you start to recognize oh, I can have a set point that actually is love. I can go and have a day that's awful, or a week that's awful, or a month, even a year, but guess what? My set point is still love. I can get back and see the beauty in life still.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, and I think it's important when you are having those bad days, it's important not to numb it, it's important to sit in that discomfort, because it's when you sit in that discomfort is when you can actually heal. You're feeling that vulnerability, that discomfort, that pain, that anger, that frustration, all the icky feelings, discomfort, that pain, that anger, that frustration, all the icky feelings. But it is through sitting in those uncomfortable feelings is when we can get to the actual onion layer of peeling whatever you're going through. And then you push through it and you get to the other side. And this is what builds resilience, this is what builds your power. I often use this word shakti. Shakti is a divine, feminine energy in Hinduism and it's a symbol of strength, resilience, empowerment, and I think that we all have that within us when we tap in, when we get still, and that sh Shakti is what carries us through the days when we're crying and we just don't know how do I get out of this dark tunnel that I'm in. That's beautiful.

Speaker 2:

And it really brings me to another point, because it's so interwoven this idea of we are spiritual beings having a human existence. I think the first time I heard that was probably somewhere around 25 or 26 years ago, when Wayne Dyer started talking about this and I just remember going whoa, that's different. And it really caught my attention at a point where I needed something to better understand and process what I was going through myself. And I'm curious for you when did you start to realize that? Oh wait, monica, the daughter, sister, aunt, mother, pharmacist, mental health advocate is not really Monica. That's not truly who you are. These are different roles that Monica plays in her human life. When did you start to realize that who you are is this infinite soul? When did that happen for you and how did it happen for you?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so I've been on this beautiful spiritual journey since 2021 with this incredible spiritual teacher, priya Jain, here in Temecula, california. But recently it was October of last year I did my very first Vipassana retreat, also known as a silent retreat. It was four days of pure silence, sitting alone with your thoughts, being alone in nature, doing everything in silence, from eating to journaling, to meditation, to chanting silently. That is when I got to really tap into my true essence. By day two of the Vipassana retreat, all the labels started to fall off and it allowed me to find my spirit within.

Speaker 1:

And what I saw was just a girl who is silly and likes to goof off and play with leaves. And I came back to my childlike essence. And we both know that as we evolve in life, we have these life experiences and it takes away from our childlike essence because things have happened to us in life, so it's like all this stuff is coming our way. But once you get to that beautiful stillness and you take off all these labels that you have, and these labels are what society puts on you, right? Wife, mother, daughter, whatever our occupation is. But that's not who we are at our core essence, who Michelle is at her core essence who Monica is at her core essence is not that.

Speaker 2:

It's pure light. I can see it. I'm looking at Monica now. I can see the little girl like the beaming smile, the light coming out of her eyes and it's like a kindred spirit. I'm like I know you. And it's so beautiful because, for those of you listening who may not yet have had this experience, take for a minute and remember a time from your childhood where you just felt light, because usually there is this moment where you can remember a happy moment, a moment of being free. You get back to that place, even though you're living in this complicated world and navigating traumas and everything else. You can get there if you're open to it, and it's really a freeing place.

Speaker 2:

I remember we have children around the same age and my teenage son said to me one day, maybe a year ago or so, he's like man for a mom. You often act more like a kid and I remember thinking, oh, thank you, I've really worked hard for this, because I always had to grow up really quickly as a young kid. So I have like a reclaimed childhood here in adulthood and it's a lot of fun. It's a great place to be when you don't take yourself too seriously and you can see the beauty even in the darkness.

Speaker 2:

Yes, absolutely, you got to go through the healing. No doubt I'm sure, like you, when others and I've gone through the same thing, when you are telling your story and it brings up so much emotion that you are brought to tears, you're still in the healing process, you're still processing all those deep feelings and it's once those stories that you're meant to tell, because you're meant to tell them, become easier to tell, because you're meant to tell them, become easier to tell, and you're really looking at the insights and the takeaways and how you can share it with others in digestible ways that they can latch on to. That you recognize, ah, there's healing here. There's been healing, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And, like I often say, michelle, healing is a lifelong journey. There's always going to be things that trigger you in life. Eckhart Tolle, one of my favorite wisdom teachers. He talks about pain, body, and it's this. Pain stays with you, but it's how you learn to coexist with it, and that's how grief is as well. It's something that you hold hands with for the rest of your life, but it does get easier, and it's basically you continue to keep working, and working, and working. But let me tell you all this inner healing work. It's hard, it is so hard, it takes up so much energy, it's exhausting, but that's when you know it's working.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and you wouldn't have it any other way now being on the other side, would you? No, I mean, it is hard and I think a lot of people the inclination is to numb it and to tune it out and to let themselves be even busy. You know, I always say like busyness is probably our generation's way of coping with a lot of difficult things and with trauma. We just get busy in our lives so we don't have to dwell on it, but then it starts to eat away at us in one way or another physically, emotionally, mentally until eventually you're brought to your knees and you're going to have to go through it. There's never going to be someone.

Speaker 2:

At some point in time you are going to be told physically or emotionally or mentally time to deal, yes, so okay, let's talk a little bit about just your journey raising the girls. I'm curious. They've come through this with a different perspective. They were young when they lost their dad. They've had your parents nearby. I'm sure that's been so incredibly inviting and warm and welcoming in terms of providing this stability of a good childhood. How have they coped with grief and with the trauma? Because they probably do have some memories of what was happening.

Speaker 1:

So they were only three and five when my husband passed away and he was ill for about a year and a half. So the girls were a year and a half and three when he became ill. So they actually have no memory of their father. My oldest has maybe a little bit here and there, but the little one has no memory. I put them in grief counseling. It was like this beautiful children's center that brought children together who have gone through a loss of a parent, and then it was through art therapy, through regular therapy. So I've been a huge advocate to keep the kids in therapy to basically process what it's like to lose a parent. Today they are strong and resilient. They've had their moments.

Speaker 1:

It's not easy growing up without a father and being surrounded by other families that have a mom and a dad. They always felt a slight lack, but my parents have been huge support. Today my girls say Mom, you're not the only one who raised us. Grandma and grandpa raised us too. So they consider themselves having three parents myself, me playing mom and dad role, and then my mom and dad.

Speaker 1:

It's a beautiful bond that they had and they've realized that this is part of life. This is unfortunately part of life. This is their path to grow up without a dad and I think we had strength among the three of us. We held on to each other. We called ourselves the three musketeers, and when they were having bad days, I was their strength. When I was having bad days, they were my strength. We found strength from each other and today it's cute, like now that they're older. Their friends are like oh my God, your mom looks like your sister, and they get a little annoyed. They're like oh true, but as they are becoming adults, now it's this fun relationship that I get to have with them.

Speaker 2:

Do you think at their age because you have an 18 year old and a 16 year old daughter do you think at their ages that they recognize that this was intended to be their path? Do you think they have that understanding we have now of that soul journey, or do you think that's something that is still yet to be discovered with? Do you think?

Speaker 1:

they have that understanding we have now of that soul journey or do you think that's something that is still yet to be discovered? With that in them, they have a little bit of inclination for that. But I think, as they get older, life experiences give us wisdom and I think that by the time they're a little bit older that they will really understand that. I mean, look at me, it took me a very long time to understand spirituality, that I had to go through this for a purpose, for my Dharma, and that was in my 40s. So I can't even imagine for today's teenagers to think spiritually. But they see, when I talk about spirituality they kind of get a little bit of gems of wisdom here and there. So I'm hoping that when they can tap into their own wisdom, their inner wisdom, they'll realize that this is all part of my journey, my path in life, my soul's experience.

Speaker 2:

You said something really beautiful and I'm just going to share it here and have you comment on it a little bit that you don't find spirituality on it a little bit, that you don't find spirituality but rather spirituality finds you. Talk more about that if you would.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So when my husband first died, my mom tried to introduce me to spirituality. Coming from a strong Hindu family, Spirituality is big in our families and I was like, what is this crap? No, like, I cannot understand, comprehend. I can't relate to any of this stuff that these people are saying. So when I say that spirituality had to find me, I had to be open to it, my heart had to be open to it, and the only way I could get to that point is I had to go through the traditional five stages of grief and get the Western treatment grief therapy, regular therapy, being on medication, using all the other tools for mental well-being and, honestly, it's not until one day.

Speaker 1:

I was listening to this beautiful spiritual podcast and I texted up my friend Simi and I was like, hey, I think I'm ready to talk to this beautiful spiritual podcast. And I texted up my friend Simit. I was like, hey, I think I'm ready to talk to this spiritual teacher that she had mentioned to me a couple of years back. I was ready. Something inside of me was like I'm ready, my heart's open. Let me explore this.

Speaker 2:

For those who aren't familiar. I want to go back for a minute, because you talked about the five stages of grief and I think it's just important for us to let people know what those are. If you could comment on that. And then I want to come back to this moment of spirituality, because it is not what we associate religion to be at all and I want to make sure we spend a little bit of time exploring there. But let's go back for a minute to those five stages of grief. What are they?

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So the five stages of grief are denial, bargaining, anger and depression. And then you get to acceptance Accepting what has happened has happened. And I think for me I was in depression for the longest time almost seven years and then, when I finally got to acceptance, that's when things started to make sense, like okay. And when I often talk about the five stages of grief and your journey, I always tell people there's no timetable. You could be in anger or bargaining or acceptance at a faster speed or it might take you longer. There's no specific prescription of how to get through your five stages of grief. Everyone goes through it on their own, everyone's individual pace. What took me seven years could take someone three years or 10 years or 20 years. The most important thing is recognizing that you're doing the best you can.

Speaker 2:

And allow yourself to feel what you feel. I'm curious because I think that first stage of denial is something that most people spend time asking a very profound question, which is why me, why us? Why is this happening to me? And I'm sure that's something you experience, right. Why is this happening to me? Why us? Why is this happening to me? And I'm sure that's something you experience, right. Why is this happening to me? When did you get to the point of saying, oh wait, this is actually happening for me, not to me.

Speaker 1:

It took me close to eight years that I realized God was actually protecting me.

Speaker 1:

It's really hard to say that when you're losing a spouse, but now, when I fast forward 13 years later, god was actually protecting me.

Speaker 1:

There was this higher being who was removing me from this difficult family situation. I mean, I can't tell you for sure if my husband was alive, if I would still be married to him, because our marriage was complicated. The thing that I held on to for the longest was it just wasn't fair for my daughters losing a father and I think when I look now I'm like wow, there was this higher being who was holding my hand, wiping my tears, carrying me, lifting me at a time when I felt so alone, when I felt like I had no one supporting me, because for a while I was ashamed to even share with my mom and dad what was happening. It was something that I just kind of went through on my own during his illness. My kids were very little, so I focused a lot of my time on just finding joy through doing stuff with the kids, like coloring books or painting and going for nature walks. But, like you asked, it took a really long time to realize that this was actually happening for me.

Speaker 2:

It's something we talk a lot about in our house and I'm very proud of my son.

Speaker 2:

We had some difficult stuff unfold nothing to the severity of losing a parent, but some stuff that was tough to handle and he's been doing it like a champ, saying I got that this is actually happening for me, even though it's really difficult and I feel like I don't belong.

Speaker 2:

And it's been really interesting to see him process as a young person, because he's seen his parents be vulnerable in working through difficult situations, being willing to be open to a certain degree right Certain things we don't want children to have to be exposed to, but to a degree of watching us process difficult situations and trying to find the lesson in the difficult thing that's unfolding. So I'm sure your daughters probably have more resilience than most kids and that's something they'll be able to share with their friends as they grow. But let's go back to the spiritual awakening and let's talk more specifically about your embracing of really what we call Eastern tradition. Spirituality really does emanate from the East and it is very distinct from religion. Tell me a little bit about what you know to this and how we can clarify that for our audience.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, so when I talk about spirituality and everyone has their beliefs on what their higher being is is it God, is it divine power? Is it some higher being? And when I talk about spirituality, I separate it from my religion, which is Hinduism, even though I pray to specific gods. I am very embracing to learning about other cultures, other religions, but I know now in hindsight, that there's something way beyond our control that's controlling our heartbeat. There's controlling us waking up in the morning. That's giving us breath, that's giving us voice, that's giving us this opportunity to me writing a children's book.

Speaker 1:

There is something that's way beyond our comprehension that's guiding us this opportunity to me writing a children's book. There is something that's way beyond our comprehension that's guiding our every move, like, if you really sit and think about it, like we wake up every morning and our heart is beating, we are breathing properly, we are using our hands and, being a pharmacist, I'm around sick people all the time. I'm seeing people who are becoming blind, I have people who are having lung transplants, I am seeing patients who are dealing with cardiovascular disease. And when you sit and think about it, like there is something that's so powerful, controlling every one of our lives, your life, my life, our children's lives, our partner's lives, our parents' lives, and we are all having a different experience in life. There's something way beyond our comprehension that's controlling it, but it took me a very long time to grasp that.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, no, I appreciate that, and it's interesting. I think I came to a lot of early awakenings because of some difficulties in my 20s, and I always say it was probably the darkest part of my time of my life. A lot of people were young and carefree and 20s are supposed to be the best time of your life and I was suffering from high functioning depression, and masking it with productivity. I was the energizer bunny, I had a full scholarship to graduate school, I was excelling and climbing the corporate ladder, and I was the it girl in town. I was doing all the things and traveling, and on the inside, I didn't even recognize high functioning depression. I thought I just needed to maybe catch up with a little bit of sleep or work a little harder or work out in the gym a little bit more. Just a lack of really understanding what my limits were, until my limits were shown to me and that idea, though, of when I found myself in that really dark place and everything was stripped away.

Speaker 2:

I felt timeless, like that part of me that was the true essence of me, of Michelle felt the same as the seven-year-old did, as the 17-year-old did, as the 26 or 27-year-old did at that time, and I started to become very aware of that part of me that, despite my body changing and growing and aging as we evolved, there's that part of me that, despite my body changing and growing and aging as we evolve, there's that part of me that just felt ageless and timeless, that soul part of you. So it's the same part that here I am in my early 50s. It still is very recognizable as the same part of me that was there and always has been, even in my early 20s, at probably the first awakening moment. Have you had that experience of realizing there's that part of you that's just timeless? That's your soul, that's your spirit.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I think I tapped into that magical feeling when I was at my silent retreat. We had this moment where, from 5. To 730 in the morning, we would do some chanting, some meditation, and we did this beautiful welcoming of the sun ceremony. And I remember sitting there in stillness, the sun is shining on me, it's just me and the sun, and I was moved to tears because I felt like, oh my god, I just tapped into my soul and I just tapped into the divine shining its light on me to remind me that, monica, you are filled with life. You are more than just your story. You, at your essence, are here to take that light and shine it to people and help people who are grieving with loss, mental health, whatever it is. So that is when I felt like I want more of this. And then I come back to like the matrix of the real world and throw it into Walmart and I'm like, oh my.

Speaker 2:

God, I want to go back.

Speaker 1:

So I'm actually going back in November to the same place and doing another silent retreat.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that's wonderful. Okay. So for those who aren't familiar with this four-day silent retreat oh, that's wonderful. Okay. So for those who aren't familiar with this four-day silent retreat, can you say it again what the name is?

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's called Vipassana, so Vipassana is the Sanskrit or Hindu terminology. That just basically means stillness or silence.

Speaker 2:

We'll actually create some links for people to learn a little bit more about that, along with some information on Monica, and I'm sure she's going to be bringing a little bit more information as time goes by about how you can get her book. So, with that, monica, why don't you do this? I would love for you to tell people how best they can reach you. We, of course, will have links to all of your socials in the show notes, but how can people reach out to you if they want to follow you and to learn more about the work you're doing?

Speaker 1:

Thank you, michelle. So my main social media platform is Instagram, so it's at DrMonicaFarmD and I'll soon be putting up a website there and links there on my upcoming children's book, which will be launching towards end of November Diwali time. My children's book is called Finding Pockets of Sunshine and it will take you on a journey of an eight-year-old who will navigate loss, grief, mental health and comes out the other side and finds pockets of sunshine mental health and comes out the other side and finds pockets of sunshine.

Speaker 2:

Oh, that sounds beautiful. I'm so excited for you and I know that so many people are going to benefit from. First of all, your story, which I'm so grateful that you came on the show today and you showed great vulnerability and just took us on this journey with you. So thank you for that and just for all your wisdom. First, as being on the front line during COVID and every day that you go to work as a pharmacist and you're out there helping the public and you're helping people also navigate not only their medical needs but understanding mental health, awareness and grief and loss. So thank you so much for the work you do. I have so much admiration for you. I'm so grateful that we connected and I cannot wait to see what happens next. The book's gonna come out. I don't know. I might find myself going on a four day silent retreat with you, yeah, and we have so much more to talk about. But for now, any last words you wanna share with our audiences before we wrap for the day.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I'm just so grateful. Like this is the power of social media, where like-minded friends can connect, and I'm just so thankful that I met you and had this beautiful, vulnerable conversation and I look forward to meeting you in real life one day Absolutely.

Speaker 2:

Well, everyone, I just want to thank you all for listening today and, if you have enjoyed this episode, I'm gonna ask you to do two things One, go find Monica Her links are gonna be in the show notes and give her a follow so that you can keep tabs on what she's doing. She is just a bright light in this world. And also go, please, to either Apple Podcasts and Spotify and give the show a five-star review, rating and review, because as you rate and review the show, it becomes more visible for others to be able to learn about it and get the message and find hope. So thank you so much for helping us raise awareness and bringing this show to more people. So, monica, thank you again for your time, for your story, for all that you're doing. It's been wonderful.

Speaker 1:

Oh, thank you, Michelle, it's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2:

All right, everyone. Until next time, go and live your extraordinary life. Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please take a moment to rate and review. If you have recommendations for future topics, please reach out to me at michelleriosofficialcom. Lastly, please consider supporting this podcast by sharing it. Together, we can reach, inspire and positively impact more people. Thank you.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Michelle Rios

Host