Live Your Extraordinary Life With Michelle Rios

Transform Your Life Through Writing Just 7 Minutes a Day with Celebrity Ghost Writer Michele Bender

• Michelle Rios

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Imagine finding joy and purpose in every moment of your life. In this episode, we welcome the extraordinary Michelle Bender, a renowned freelance writer and ghostwriter for high-profile celebrities, who shares her powerful insights into how writing and intentional living can transform your life. Michelle's philosophy of "being where your feet are" encourages us to be deeply present and passionate about the life we lead, and she thoughtfully explains how choosing projects that align with our values can bring joy and fulfillment. With her impressive career working alongside well-known personalities and contributing to esteemed publications, Michelle provides a fascinating glimpse into the world of a successful writer.

From a childhood love of storytelling to crafting impactful op-eds and books, Michelle reflects on her journey to writing success and the pivotal moments that opened doors along the way. She candidly shares both challenges and triumphs of navigating the ever-changing landscape of publishing, highlighting the dedication and grit required to thrive in this industry. Balancing her career with motherhood, Michelle offers a unique perspective on the profound satisfaction of helping others realize their dreams through writing, making this episode a must-listen for anyone passionate about storytelling.

Michelle also explores the healing power of writing, showcasing how it can foster emotional connections and offer profound therapeutic benefits. From bestsellers like the "Curly Girl" series to collaborations with diverse authors, she illustrates how writing can change lives and encourages everyone to engage in the practice—whether writing for publication or personal healing. We delve into the nuances of writing processes, the value of book proposals, and the evolving publishing industry, providing aspiring writers with valuable insights and practical advice for their own journeys.

WAYS TO CONNECT WITH ME:

Speaker 1:

I think the writing process is so healing. First of all, even writing seven minutes a day. If you set your alarm, preferably in the morning, but even at night, for seven minutes, and just write whether you write a letter to someone that you're not gonna send, or someone dead or alive, or you have a writing prompt, or you just write anything on your mind that seven minutes is gonna change you. So if you're having a bad day or there's times where I just feel off and I'm not sure what's upsetting me, I'll just do that. So in seven minutes, writing changes your life.

Speaker 2:

Hi, I'm Michelle Rios, host of the Live your Extraordinary Life podcast. Hi, I'm Michelle Rios, host of the Live your Extraordinary Life podcast. This podcast is built on the premise that life is meant to be joyful, but far too often we settle for less. So if you've ever thought that something is missing from your life, that you were meant for more, or you simply want to experience more joy in the everyday, then this podcast is for you. Each week, I'll bring you captivating personal stories, transformative life lessons and juicy conversations on living life to the fullest, with the hope to inspire you to create a life you love on your terms, with authenticity, purpose and connection. Together, we'll explore what it means to live an extraordinary life, the things that hold us back and the steps we all can take to start living our best lives. So come along for the journey. It's never too late to get started, and the world needs your light. Have you ever considered writing a book or wondered what exactly goes into writing a book these days? Well, my guest this week is the extraordinary Michelle Bender.

Speaker 2:

Michelle has been an award-winning freelance writer for more than 25 years and she co-authors and ghostwrites nonfiction books for high-profile celebrities and experts. Undoubtedly, you've seen some of her work over the years, which includes the bestseller One Day You'll Thank Me, essays on Dating, motherhood and Everything in Between by Cameron Eubanks Wimbley, from Bravo Network's hit show Southern Charm. Not one but two of Dr Phil McGraw's New York Times bestsellers, real Life Preparing for the Seven Most Challenging Days of your Life, and Love Smart, find the One you Want, fix the One you Got. Or perhaps Believe Me, my Battle with the Invisible Disability of Lyme Disease. By Yolanda Hadid, model and mother to supermodels Bella and Gigi Hadid. Editors from publishing house giants such as Simon Schuster and St Martin's Press sing Michelle's praises as a tenacious writer they love to work with. You can find Michelle's essays in the smash hit Chicken Soup for the Soul series, both the teenage and college editions. She has also written countless articles for a variety of national publications, including the New York Times, cosmopolitan, sports Illustrated, glamour House, beautiful, real, simple, insty style, just to name a few. You get the picture she's the real deal. Michelle has had an extraordinary career, one that most people dream of, and she has so much guidance and wisdom to share.

Speaker 2:

Enjoy this week's episode with the one and only Michelle Bender. Hello, michelle, welcome to the show, thank you, it's so nice to be here. I'm so glad we were able to get the time to sit down and talk in more depth. So I'm going to start us off, michelle, with the question I pose to all of our guests, and which is what does it mean to you to live your extraordinary life To?

Speaker 1:

me, it means to be where my feet are, which sounds so much simpler than it is, but it's the title of a book that I worked on and it's such a great expression because, as working moms, you're often not where your feet are because you're at the kids play and then you're thinking about dinner, or you're thinking about a project, or you're in a meeting and you're thinking about the kids play you miss.

Speaker 1:

So for me, it means to be where my feet are and also love those things that I'm doing where my feet are. So if I am working on a project, it's really loving that project. As I've gotten further in my career, I'm really thinking more carefully about the projects I choose and knowing and being confident that if I'm not happy with one and don't want to take it, there'll be another one around the corner. It's really just being where my feet are, loving what I'm doing when I'm in those moments, which sounds so idealistic, but it's so freeing. Well, what you're talking about is intentional living. I sometimes say to myself am I being where my feet are or is my mind somewhere else? And it really works to ground you.

Speaker 2:

Well, that's it. I'm going to be checking in with friends and asking them if they are where their feet are or not. I love that. All right, michelle, you're many things. You're a book editor, you're a book writer. You help people write book proposals. This has really been your space for decades. Now Tell us a little bit about your backstory. How did you get into this profession and where has this career taken you?

Speaker 1:

So I always loved to write, from being a really little little girl. I would write stories. I would beg my parents this was back with typewriters to type them up. Then I'd cut them out, make books. So I always loved creative writing. I was the nerd at sports camp. There was like one summer that they offered creative writing under a tree and I think one person me signed up for it.

Speaker 1:

Then I went to college at Northwestern and I did go to graduate school at Medill School of Journalism at Northwestern but then got interviewed and recruited to an ad agency as an account executive not a creative position, but I took the job because everyone was saying to me wait, you got recruited, that's a great firm. So I worked there and I knew pretty soon on that it wasn't the job for me. But I was also in my 20s, needed the money, needed a job. So I kept working there. But to make myself feel better I started to take creative writing that night at NYU and the New School and so I would do my job and then go to those classes.

Speaker 1:

And then one day I was at one of the classes and the editor-in-chief of Madame Mazon magazine, which used to be a huge publication, elizabeth Rowe, came to speak and in that moment she said there was something as freelance writing, which made up the majority of their writing, and I can remember that moment so clearly. And then I said to myself okay, I know how to do my day job till five or six every day, and then I would stay and write for this class, and every week I would just show up with two to three pages, and in the end I wound up spending a couple months just sending my ideas and my essays out. Back then, a lot of the magazines had essay sections almost every single one and so I would send them out. I have mounds of rejections. And then one day, the New York Times. I dropped an op-ed idea off. I dropped it off at the New York Times on a Thursday.

Speaker 1:

Back when you could do that before we digitally sent everything Exactly and before they were suspicious of an envelope being dropped off and I got a phone call from the editor and he said it was Thursday. He said if you're willing to work with me from now till you know, sunday we will publish your story. And of course I said yes. And it was such a great moment because not only was it a huge op-ed, it was an illustration, but after that the magazine world was big in terms of so many publications. But the editors all knew me because I had been for months sending out essays. So the piece ran on a Sunday and that week I got calls from five or six of those editors saying you know that story you wrote about the ballet workout class. Now we want it. And so then I started writing for them. And so then I started writing for them.

Speaker 1:

I also got fired from my ad job because my boss saw my byline, said that I was a freelance writer and he realized I didn't really want to be there and it was sort of good timing. Finally I got a column in Shape magazine and from then on I always had a column, at least one. Then what happened was about 10 or 12 years into it, dr Phil wanted to write a dating book and he wanted an assistant or ghostwriter or editor who had been in the magazine business, as opposed to his typical editor who'd done psychology and a few people had given him my name and I'd written one or two chapters for people for books, but never a whole book with someone. And after that I just started getting book after book and it was a great moment because the magazine world has really shrunk to nothing. And through that book I did another one of his books and his agent has become someone over the last 18 years who has reached out to me from project after project.

Speaker 2:

So it's been really great and I love it. All right, if we were to sum up your experience to date in terms of what it's taken to get you to where you are, what's the word that comes to mind? I have my own word right now A lot of hard work and going above and beyond.

Speaker 1:

That's always what I think of, because you can't do the bare minimum in this job. It just doesn't exist. Because you're trying to be creative, you're trying to be different, you have to get so much information from the people you work with.

Speaker 1:

Also, it's such a responsibility because this is their baby, and the people I work with typically have a day job and something that they've really dreamed about doing and maybe put off for years, and so I take everything so responsibly and carefully and seriously. So it's a lot of hard work. It's a lot, but on the other side it's so exciting because to help someone put their words on paper, sell that idea to a publisher, then have a book deal and then we work on the book and then the book comes out. And it's a long process. I always say it's not like in the movies where you see someone typing the end. They pull that last page out, they put it on the side and the book is over. You actually often don't even know when the book is over. So it's very gradual and vague, but it's a ton of work. But it's also really, really exciting. It's so great to have something concrete at the end, even before the book is published. I see such a transformation in the people I work with and there's no words for that Right, absolutely.

Speaker 2:

The words that come to mind to describe what you're talking about are perseverance and grit. You need incredible perseverance and grit. This is not a profession or a foray for the weak of heart.

Speaker 1:

No, it's not a nine to five. It's a great profession as a mom because you're making your own schedule, so I was able to be at most of my kids games and pickups and things like that but it's a lot of late nights and a lot of gone above and beyond. But it's also fascinating and that's why choosing the right project is so important, because you're researching it, and I've learned so much about such an array of topics, from autoimmune disease to celebrity memoir to all sorts of things that each one is so exciting and also so much mindset work with the guy I worked on Be when your Feet Are, scott O'Neill, kathy Heller's book. So I get the benefit of all of it because I'm the reader as I'm working on it and so I've learned so, so, so much. So I feel really lucky that that's the kind of job I have, where I'm constantly learning. I love that.

Speaker 2:

A lot of pressure but it's exciting. So you've worked on so many different projects in the course of your career and I'm just curious from celebrity memoirs to, I'm sure, how-to books, to more mindset oriented, does a favorite one or two projects kind of come to the surface for you?

Speaker 1:

Definitely the ones where I've learned things that help in my own life. So, working with Kathy Heller and her book, I learned so much because you have to when you do that kind of book you have to really read everything the person has written, watch everything they've recorded or attend classes, so I've gotten to learn so much mindset information that I wouldn't have otherwise and that's really fascinating, and so that stands out. The book when your Feet Are with Scott O'Neill was also a great story about. It started with his journey when his best friend died and he was trying to get over that and he was talking to different people about how they got over grief because he was so overtaken with it, much more than he expected. And so that book is just story after story from amazing people and then we had to weave them together so those two stand out. They're also the more recent ones, but just when I can learn things that change my own life and most of them do my through line for projects that I pick is will this help people, and so every single book I have done falls under that, and even books.

Speaker 1:

I've done three hair books, curly hair books, curly girl, with an amazing woman who created the whole world of the curly method and that might sound superficial, especially if you don't have curly hair, but that's our bestseller. It's changed lives because if you know how to do your hair and if you've grown up with curly hair, there's always been a self-esteem struggle, especially if you grew up prior to, say, 2000s, where there were products for your hair. So teaching people how to manage that is not just about their hair, it's their self-esteem. They feel better about themselves. It translates to other aspects of their lives. Then we did a curly kids book so that we could start now without having these kids ever knowing that having curly hair is different. So those two books actually also were really, really exciting to work on, because the letters after letters that my co-author who's really the genius and expert behind it gets about those books there's no words. People's lives have literally been changed, and mine too, because when I started working on that book I was chemically straightening my curly hair and just writing the book just as a writer. And it changed my life because through the process of writing it I realized, wow, I could love my hair and so even something like that, which sounds like it's not deep, is so deep.

Speaker 1:

Lorraine Massey invented the whole curly girl method, which obviously, since then, people have adopted and copied and there's been so many more products. But she's really started with the basics and it hasn't changed her message and we're actually working on an update of the book because it's still such a bestseller. But it was written in 2010 and the visuals need to be updated and some of them aren't. But it's really exciting too, because people always ask me how many books do you work on at once? They're always in various stages. I'm always doing more than one, but their topics are so different. There's no problem. So I'll be working on Curly Girl and a health book and a celebrity memoir and different stages. It's never the exact same stage, but it's so fun because the topics are so varied and you go on these different journeys with the authors Totally and it's such an intimate, close relationship and I feel so lucky that of all the projects I have to count Someone asked me how many I've done.

Speaker 1:

It's definitely over 20, 25 books and I can't. Probably 30 something proposals or more probably 40 something, because some people then decide not to do their book or things happen. But I've made such great friends and connections through this because it's such an intimate process.

Speaker 1:

The person is telling you everything, because all the books I work on are non-fictions and even though some are self-help or service, there's always a memoir aspect of it Like I worked on a book for Dr Phil's wife, robin McGraw, who's an amazing, amazing woman, and it was really came out of all the viewer questions about her life and her health and her fitness and her beauty, and so, even though it was a lot of self service, people wanted her story so we found a way to weave it together so it's really fascinating. So, no matter the technique or the book, there's always some memoir aspect. Even though we don't have that, that's in even the curly hair book. Lorraine talks about her childhood in London with her hair and being the youngest of her siblings and the only one with this crazy hair, and thinking she was adopted.

Speaker 2:

And so there's always that. So it really brings you close and connected to the person so really fun who was working on a memoir, who in the end said to you I don't care if this ever even gets published, Just the fact that we did this, I feel amazing.

Speaker 1:

We'll want to get their story on paper, no-transcript. They just don't know where to begin and I think the writing process is so healing. First of all, even writing seven minutes a day, if you set your alarm, preferably in the morning, but even at night, for seven minutes and just write whether you write a letter to someone that you're not going to send, or someone dead or alive, or you have a writing prompt or you just write anything on your mind that seven minutes is going to change you. So if you're having a bad day or there's times where I just feel off and I'm not sure what's upsetting me, I'll just do that. So in seven minutes, writing changes your life. So when you write a whole book, it changes your life and I've seen that with him. He decided not even to publish it and just to share it with his family. And then and I've had a few people that's some of the proposals that didn't turn into published books because those people decided I'm just going to write this for my family, which is great when you think about your grandparents and great-grandparents you wish they had done that but also people who in their memoir journey I worked with one woman who we wrote her memoir, and a lot of it was anger at her ex-husband.

Speaker 1:

But through the process of writing the book she was not even angry anymore. She had healed it just by getting it out on paper. So it might sound strange to people who don't write, but this is for anybody. You don't have to be a writer, because most people I work with are not writers and that's why I'm there. It's not that they're not brilliant and could write. They have a day job, they don't have time to write. But it's really healing and you just do it and you don't think about grammar, editing, anybody seeing it.

Speaker 2:

You write it as if nobody's going to see it and you just get it down on that blank page and you'll be shocked how much it changes your life what makes writing so transformative is it that, going through thinking about the details of your life or your experience and going through a healing process, can you unpack maybe a little bit more about that journey writing is thinking on paper.

Speaker 1:

But it's like I remember when my kids were little and I would say if you're ever upset about something, don't keep it to yourself, because when you keep it to yourself and this goes for grownups too it festers. You analyze it, it's just you, it's in your head. So telling someone is always a good idea because you can bounce it off. Well, I feel the same about writing. When you put it on paper, you're thinking on paper, it's almost like the paper and the writing process is another person and you analyze it. And it always makes, in my experience, more sense when you get it on paper, where you're just not feeling great, you can say what am I upset about? And set your timer for seven minutes and it just it's like having a conversation with another person on paper. So it's thinking on paper and I really think that's part of it. And then the bigger picture.

Speaker 1:

If you're writing a book or an essay, it's the healing process. First of all, you're writing your story. You become so proud of yourself for what you've been through. A lot of people were so busy not being where our feet are. We don't appreciate all that we've been through, all that we've done, all our successes. So when you're writing a book or even an essay, you're getting that on paper and then you feel so good about yourself because you've seen your journey and it also helps make sense of your life. So I feel as if writing really is transformational, no matter how old you are, I literally think it transforms you in minutes.

Speaker 2:

So I love that. So I have to ask you write for a profession. You're obviously working on a variety of number of projects in any given time. Do you still do your morning pages?

Speaker 1:

It's not always in the morning, but there's always a point during the day where I stop and try to do them. I'd say three to four times a week I do it.

Speaker 2:

The writer who's writing for everyone else still takes time to write for herself.

Speaker 1:

I love that, and I one day will write my own memoir, but I feel like the daily writing really helps sort. Life is complicated and we're all so busy and we all have a million things going on and my work is really busy and I have different projects, different stages, and so it really does help me to take a second and do seven minutes. So I'm not great about doing it seven days a week, but I really try, three to four at some point during the day, to stop and take the break and do that, because I am someone who, once I get locked in, I sometimes have trouble getting up from my desk. So I do try and do that.

Speaker 2:

I don't know if there's anything more inspiring than hearing a writer that says I have, any given day, three or four things going on in the writing arena and I still take time to do some writing as much as I can. So for all our listeners you heard it here get out your pen and paper and start writing. And I'm curious do you write long form or do you type? Do you have a?

Speaker 1:

preference. I feel like the seven minutes is best for me, done in a journal by hand. I don't always do that, because if I'm somewhere where I don't have paper, but for some reason there's some connection between the brain and the hand and something that I think it's more effective for me. The one thing though as a writer, I like to have everything saved. So I'm always in this torment between should I do it on my computer? Should I do it? Because if I do it by hand it's just and I recommend it's just right, don't worry about it being neat or perfect, and so sometimes that information gets lost in the ether because I'm not going to transcribe it. So sometimes it's better on the computer. But for the most part I try to do it by hand, and I think you really have to think about which one and try both. Which one's better for you.

Speaker 1:

If you're writing a book, I think if you can try and either write neatly in the journal or do it online on the computer, it's best because you're trying to save that information that's coming at these moments. But it really matters. The pen you use, the paper, you use your keyboard, all that stuff for me is relevant. Some people may say it's not, but I'm very particular. I like smooth paper, I like a certain pen, and so that helps me, and so whatever is going to help you is how you should do it and get it on paper, and there's plenty of ways to. If you write neat enough in your handwritten journal, you can read it out loud, transcribe it. Today there's so many options, it's a lot easier. There's actually even one app where you can take a photograph of a handwritten page that I've used and then it goes into a Word document, whatever is going to get you to get the words on paper. So I would test it out and see.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'm a big environment matters person, right, right big one, and I'm easily distracted, so I'm like the shh before everyone wakes up. This is bad time with my coffee. Yeah, my office usually.

Speaker 1:

I love that. That's one thing. What the things I learned from the books are not what you think. For example, one thing I learned from Kathy Heller was enjoy the first four sips of your coffee. Those are the best, and it's true. That's another. Be where your feet are moment. How many times do you have your coffee and you just race through it. So I've really learned to stop and enjoy the first four sips.

Speaker 2:

This is the same cup of coffee that's been reheated three times since I woke up with dogs at eight o'clock. That's so late Late for me. Okay, I'm a firm believer that everybody has a story, but they might not necessarily know how to tell the story Right. What do you advise people that feel like I think I have something to say? What's the starting point, feel like I think I have something to say what's the starting point?

Speaker 1:

So I think the starting point is wherever you are. So if you, if today you're thinking I have this thing to say well, what in that moment is making you think that? Did you see a woman walking down the street who looked like your grandmother? Then in that moment, take the seven minutes and write about your grandmother, whatever, wherever you are. And people often ask me when they're interviewing me to write their book or their book proposal what's the process? Where do we start? And I always start where they are. My job is to organize it. My job is to pull it all together, but I need to start with what they're thinking about today, because that's going to be where, if I bring up something that they're not really thinking about in that moment, it's not going to be as rich as if we start with the story they're thinking about today. Other writers may do it differently and start in order, and it might make their job easier, but I feel like to get the best details. Start where you are. So whatever in this moment is making you think I have a story to tell what made you think that and then write that. Tell what made you think that and then write that. And I think so many people have a story to tell, which is why I'm starting this class on how helping people write their book proposal.

Speaker 1:

So, even if you're going to publish your own book, a book proposal traditionally is used to get a publishing deal right First get an agent, then get a publishing deal. But it's also a roadman. So it's even if you're writing your own self-publishing. You don't need to sell. It's still your roadmap and it has an overview which is like seven to 10 pages. It has an expanded table of content, so each chapter has its own page. What you're telling the publisher, the agent or yourself, what am I going to write about on these 10 chapters? And then there's a sample chapter, and then there's an about the author, and then there's a marketing plan.

Speaker 1:

And so where to begin is? The overview always starts with a scene that just grabs you, something that pulls you in, and so start there. What's the reason? The overview is why you're writing the book, so start with that. Why are you writing this book? And again, it goes back to writing prompts. If it's hard to think that way, do it in a letter. You're not going to send the letter. It could be to someone dead alive, it's just. The letter narrows your focus so that you can see where you're going, and sometimes it's easier to do that when you're talking to someone else.

Speaker 2:

For our listeners. The information on Michelle's class will be available in the show notes, and I'm very excited to be able to work with her in the very near future myself.

Speaker 1:

It's the kickoff. So, even though we're calling it a book proposal, it's the kickoff to writing your book, because I've done this privately with people who aren't a celebrity or an expert or someone who hires me in that way. I've done sort of this smaller coaching, one-on-one, and people say to me I can't believe I didn't start this sooner. I've had this idea and we just kicked it off and all I did was coach them to get it down and use this framework and they just go. And so that's what's really cool about the process and this class and the other thing it does is I've had people use it for their podcast. So they wanna write a book, but often a podcast is a good way to get a platform before you sell a book. So a lot of people have taken the framework and this becomes their first.

Speaker 1:

10 episodes are those chapters that we've outlined. And then also in the class I'm having a lot of experts come. I have an amazing literary agent coming and she's going to talk to people and get some pitches from some of the people in the class. I have someone in self-publishing coming, someone from a publishing house, just to get even that side of it is so fascinating, and then it just takes you to the next level. But what I've really loved is when I've done this with people one-on-one. It's the way this just lights the spark and they go and it seems so overwhelming and daunting to get your book idea on paper, but it's really not. Once you start you kind of can't stop and then it's like everything. Then you start talking about it, then this person says oh, I know somebody or this person wants to interview you, and it just puts it out there, not only on paper, but out in the world.

Speaker 2:

I think there's something when you finally decide and have the intention to do something and you're fully aligned with it, then the universe sort of just opens up to you. It opens up, right.

Speaker 1:

But I will say it's never a good time to start. It's like it's never a good time to get pregnant, you know in your phase of life.

Speaker 1:

You never established enough, right, right? And it's the same with the book. I feel like no one needs to know. You're doing it. You don't have to make a big announcement, you can just do this. And there's never going to be a perfect time. You're never going to have three hours a day to sit in the woods with your coffee and write a book. But if you do this process little by little, it starts it and then the time somehow opens up. It's like people say about meditation you take those five, 10 minutes and time opens up in your day. It's the same thing. So there's never going to be a good time to do it. And the good thing about it no one needs to know, you can just do it. It's like training for a marathon.

Speaker 1:

No one needs to know you're doing your three miles a day or whatever. But once you start, the internal changes are amazing. And even if you just started and then you use writing as your daily practice to just clear your mind, it works. But what I've seen is I start this with people who are somewhat resistant or think who cares about this story? Who cares about my life? But if you think about so many books, that are small moments. I think we've already talked about the book the Glass Castle is just it's not. She's not a celebrity and a memoir, is just a piece of your life. It's not your whole life. And people do care and people do relate, and people the way that they connect is by hearing other people's stories and struggles and it makes you feel so much better.

Speaker 1:

I remember growing up when my parents got divorced. I didn't tell anybody and meanwhile several of my friends did the same thing and it's like, once you share, it's not such a big deal, and so people do care and your story will connect and you never know. It's like movies that come out. There was just a small movie I watched, lean on Pete. I think it was just about a small moment, but people connect to it, so you'd be surprised.

Speaker 1:

So that's a lot of the resistance is people think who cares about it? No one's going to want to read my story, but they do. And also, your story might not be a memoir, it might be a service-y self-help book. It's just the memoir part is what attracts people and brings them in. It's a scene, it's a story, but then you can turn it into self-help or a more service-y book and that's what we work on. All the books I work on are nonfiction, but it's hard when you're in it to think of it. It's much better to have someone on the outside kind of guiding you. And so that's the whole point, because a lot of times where people start with a book, when we do this book coaching is so different and so exciting and so much easier than they thought like anything Once you finally get into it.

Speaker 2:

give me a sense for those folks who haven't gone through the process of actually writing a book proposal, creating that roadmap, which I think is a phenomenal way to recommend people if they're interested in writing a book or a memoir or a how-to to start there. How long should they anticipate something like that taking? Yeah?

Speaker 1:

It could. It's really varies because but it could be a month, two months, it depends how much extra time you have. But what so many people see is once they get started, they can't stop and it falls out of them and that's been really exciting when I've had that, as people were the story that they've kept inside or thought about for 10, 15 years, once they get started. I worked with someone about a year ago on this in a coaching way and it came out in two weeks. Everything was out because it was all there, it just needed to be unleashed, coached out of her yeah.

Speaker 1:

And so the idea that's been sitting and sitting and sitting. You don't realize how much you've been thinking about it. Whatever it is, whether it's a cocktail recipe book or a cookbook, or it's a memoir or it's self-help, you don't realize how long you've been thinking. You've kind of already done so much of the work inside. Once you start on paper, you won't believe and you won't believe the way it shifts and changes, which is really exciting.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely Okay. One last juicy question, which is and I just would love your thoughts on this the difference between getting a publishing house to publish your book versus the very common and, I think, very new way of going about it, which is the self-published route. It feels like there are so many avenues that weren't open to writers even a decade ago. What are your thoughts on all the different avenues?

Speaker 1:

Interesting because now you're right, it used to be publishing houses or self-published. Now there's hybrid, because a lot of times people went to the publishing house because you need the distribution. Now there's a lot of hybrid situations where you don't need that. There's also times where people self-publish a book and a publisher then sees how well it's doing and options it and you tweak it a little bit, so it's endless. I think the most important thing is to get it down on paper and start the book proposal process and then you can send that proposal out to agents and publishers, even if you're not sure, even if you're thinking of self-publishing, and then you know, simultaneously explore both options and then see what happens. But they're really even the self-publishing route which, like you said, even a decade ago was so obvious when someone self-published. Now it's almost a menu with some of these companies and you can pay more and get more services. And I have a friend who self-published a book and when he showed it to me I couldn't believe it. It was so professional and beautiful. Compared to he had done a first book 10 years ago that was, or maybe a little longer, that just was clearly self-published. This one you would never know. So I really feel like the first thing is get your idea on paper, get it out, do this book proposal roadmap and then you can go from there and then you can talk to people. But you do need a document in hand before you can get started.

Speaker 1:

So, even if this book proposal isn't going to be the big proposal that sells your book, you just need something on paper to talk to an agent or a publisher because you can describe your idea, but that's not. They need to see the voice, they need to see what it looks like, they need to see the thought on paper. So you need to have something, some sort of document, to kickstart this process before you do any of that. And I would focus on the writing first. That's the fun part, that's the right, you know sending it out.

Speaker 1:

But you need the idea on paper because just talking it through you'll see if you meet an agent you say, oh, I have this great book idea and they're just nodding along, but they want to see something on paper. Nodding along, but they want to see something on paper. So I think what's really exciting is that you have all those options today and so you can definitely get your book published, which is really exciting. That wasn't the case 10, 15 years ago, and you can get a beautifully done book If you're going the self-publishing route. It may become something that's discovered by a publisher, or you may go to a publisher and be surprised, but you need something on paper to show them first.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, you know I always, having grown up in related fields and communications and being very book nerdy, I always have a stack of actual books on my desk and on the floor by my bed and on the bed stand and everywhere else in my house that I'm in various stages of reading.

Speaker 2:

I always thought the New York Times bestseller list was the place to tell what was happening, and I still think. Obviously it's incredibly important. But now there's so many other lists it's like Amazon bestseller lists and Barnes and Noble's book of the month or what have you and definitely, definitely it's incredible.

Speaker 1:

There's so much more in the New York Times. Bestseller list is a formula and it's a certain amount sold within a certain amount of time. So sometimes a book that has a steady growth versus that first week, it's actually it's. Sometimes it's just numbers. I mean, obviously it's amazing to be on the New York Times bestsellers. It's so exciting when I've worked on a book that has become that. But I've learned that's not the end, all be all. And also, again, if you're really trying to help people, a slow, steady growth like Curly Girl never made the New York Times bestseller but it's helped hundreds of thousands of people. So I feel like for me that's more important. Obviously it's great to have the little New York Times bestseller thing, but there are many more lists. There's USA Today and you're right, amazon does a great job and they divide it by category which is it's just great.

Speaker 1:

There's just so many new avenues for aspiring writers, which is just really, I think, gives people own marketing machine if you want, and even small grassroots marketing campaigns have just taken off and books do really well and if you really want to help other people, you're going to get to that audience that you're trying to help.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely All right. One last question for you, and that is, besides sit down and get going, any last advice for aspiring writers out there.

Speaker 1:

I would read a lot of what you would like to write, because it will inspire you and give you ideas. It also may make you realize, oh wait, I don't want to do a memoir, I kind of want to do a self-help, and that's a tweak in terms of, for example, a memoir. You tell your story, you can tweak them to self-help book with seven lessons for X, y, z, and you take your memoir and you make it into what are the, you pull out the lessons. So I think reading what you think you want to write even one or two books I know everyone's busy can really help. You see, is this what I want to do? To watch someone else's structure is so exciting. And then it may make you think, oh, I don't want to do it this way. So then read the next kind of book.

Speaker 1:

But I think reading a lot and just writing, I would just write. And the most important thing with the writing is don't edit yourself. Pretend you're writing it for nobody but yourself and don't edit, don't worry about spelling, grammar, and if you're stuck in those seven minutes or whatever, just say why am I writing this? Question mark and answer. Just keep asking yourself that question why do I want to write this book and just keep going, because when you do it uncensored, without all those sort of editors on your shoulder, it comes out in such a different way. So I think that's the key. The fun part is editing and taking out, but getting the juicy nuggets and the details and the thoughts down right now, when you're having them, is the most important part.

Speaker 2:

Great advice. Thank you so much, Michelle.

Speaker 1:

You're welcome. This was so, so fun and I'm so excited to just help more people work on their stories and get them out of their heads, which is why for so long I struggled with. I can really help some people with when I do these big proposals, but how can I help more people? So that's why I'm excited to do this class and small coaching, because so many people I talked to the idea came to me because everyone says to me oh, I have this great book idea and then I've had it for 10 years, 20 years, and so I'm excited to just help people with that because it's life changing.

Speaker 2:

So we are going to make sure that all the information on how, if you're interested, you can work with Michelle so that you can easily find her and follow up. Thank you again. I hope you'll come back, of course.

Speaker 1:

Wonderful. I look forward to working on your book with you. I'm holding.

Speaker 2:

I love it. I love it even better. All right, my friend, great to talk to you. We'll do it again soon. Yes, take care Bye-bye. Thank you for listening to today's episode. If you enjoyed this podcast episode, please take a moment to rate and review. If you have recommendations for future topics, please reach out to me at michelleriosofficialcom. Lastly, please consider supporting this podcast by sharing it. Together, we can reach, inspire and positively impact more people. Thank you.

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Michelle Rios

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