Imagine if you could reframe your most challenging emotional experiences and finally achieve the healing you've been seeking. That's the promise of EMDR therapy, and in this episode, we take you on Greg's journey through its transformative process. Picking up where we left off on the previous episode, we start with a deep dive into the initial sessions, and uncover how guided imagery and bilateral stimulation work together to unlock hidden traumas and emotional triggers.
We also explore the broader impact of mastering emotional reactivity and enhancing self-awareness. Through personal stories and compelling examples, we reveal how techniques like visualizing and comforting your younger self can lead to significant improvements in emotional regulation, relationships, and overall well-being. Whether it's understanding the voices in our heads or making sense of seemingly minor triggers, we underscore the importance of professional guidance and ongoing emotional maintenance.
Join us to learn how EMDR therapy can be a cornerstone for personal growth.
Imagine if you could reframe your most challenging emotional experiences and finally achieve the healing you've been seeking. That's the promise of EMDR therapy, and in this episode, we take you on Greg's journey through its transformative process. Picking up where we left off on the previous episode, we start with a deep dive into the initial sessions, and uncover how guided imagery and bilateral stimulation work together to unlock hidden traumas and emotional triggers.
We also explore the broader impact of mastering emotional reactivity and enhancing self-awareness. Through personal stories and compelling examples, we reveal how techniques like visualizing and comforting your younger self can lead to significant improvements in emotional regulation, relationships, and overall well-being. Whether it's understanding the voices in our heads or making sense of seemingly minor triggers, we underscore the importance of professional guidance and ongoing emotional maintenance.
Join us to learn how EMDR therapy can be a cornerstone for personal growth.
So take me back to your first session and you don't have to like go into detail about what you talked about, but just more of like the overarching. So you went in and did you, were you like my wife suggested I get a Red Bull instead of a coffee, and it sent me over the edge, or how did it start? And like, how did she begin introducing the tools or the headphones and explain that process to you as you remember it?
Speaker 2:
I feel like it's the perfect blend of talk therapy and EMDR therapy because, like, the first part of the session is more of like talking about things, and then it's almost like she would get me to that state of being triggered, and then we would put the headphones on and then she would, you know, ask me about, like put yourself in this situation, okay, now, just close your eyes and see what comes up.
Speaker 2:
And then I would just close my eyes and whatever image would come up, I would bring it up. For example, I would say, like I'm just sitting in a field by myself, and then she would ask okay, then we just keep going deeper and deeper and deeper until something would come up. That would be like let's talk about it, you know, and then we would talk it through and make sense of it, you know. So it was just a lot of like talking through it but then also doing the whole left-right brain activity to to engage, because I feel like if you don't engage, both sides I mean that's the whole point of it is engaging both sides of your emotional body you know, otherwise you're just you store it away and then just keep on trucking with life and it never gets dealt with.
Speaker 2:
You know, and I and that it just basically things would come up, we would talk through them and then, as it would progress through towards the end, nothing would come up.
Speaker 1:
She would bring up triggering things that she knew all my buttons at the end she would bring them up and then it was like I feel nothing, I'm not sparked by that, you know so do you think it's fair to say, just from your experience and like what you know about the therapy again, not scientific or any type of expert on the actual therapy maybe we can have someone come on and talk about it who is an expert but just as it pertains to your experience, that like she would talk to you and then notice that you were getting emotionally sensitive about something, as you mentioned, or heightened, and then give you the bilateral stimulation Because otherwise you remember it, how you remember it, and then that's it, and there is no like exercising that other side of the brain.
Speaker 1:
That like brings a whole new vantage point. So you remember how you remember it, you feel it, how you feel it. That is what happens when you feel that triggering feeling. It takes you back to right here in this pocket, where that's what I feel, and that bilateral stimulation allowed you to go into a space that you hadn't been. That would deepen the conversation and that then allowed you to see it from a less in real time memory. Am I understanding that correctly?
Speaker 2:
A little bit. I mean, the feelings come up, the situations come up, whatever it was, just having the freedom and the space and the trust to to bring up whatever it is and then have a professional there as a almost like a spirit guide a guide that is like, well, maybe it's this or let's, let's go deeper, let's you know, and having someone kind of guide you through it.
Speaker 2:
And for me you know not to sound corny and hokey and all this, but for me I was able to heal childhood traumas because it was like I had a guide there to kind of pull me through and help me, and sometimes that guide was me.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
My blanket statement on therapy. If I'm talking to friends or anybody about it, it's really just giving yourself the space and time to deal with these things that you're always too busy to deal with.
Speaker 1:
So is it fair to say that in your experience you would experience this strong emotion from something that triggered you and that it would stop there. Prior to this therapy, where just any therapy, where a therapist or a counselor or professional asks you further questions to deepen that, that's the same right. The EMDR part was just a different way of stimulating, but it was having a guide say okay, well, that isn't like the end all be all of this situation. Let's go deeper and figure out like what is it that formed?
Speaker 2:
that emotion in the first place.
Speaker 1:
Otherwise, we experience something and we're like well, this is what I know, this is how I feel and this is what I remember, and that is that it isn't. Well, I wonder what about that is making me feel that way. When have I felt that way before in my past? And maybe it has nothing to do with you, maybe it has to do with being teased in middle school, like who knows, but like having a guide there, not just the bilateral stimulation, but having someone there, that combination of saying okay, well, let's talk about that further. To really get to the deep-rooted situation.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, because just because you think something, just because you believe something, does not mean it's real. It does not mean it really happened, it doesn't mean that it's factual. I mean we see that in all the nonsense of the world these days. Just because you believe it and you think it's real, it doesn't necessarily mean it's the facts.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And so you would feel these things that you thought were so real. But it's not. It's just what you've made up as a protective mechanism or whatever.
Speaker 1:
Can you tell me more about what you meant by sometimes? That guide was you.
Speaker 2:
Well, I mean just, sometimes it's just you have to be the one that helps your younger you through a problem, you know yeah.
Speaker 1:
I've seen that. I've kind of experienced that like myself or like seen other things that suggest you know, go back and write a letter to your younger self about like how it's all going to be okay and how you're sorry for the things that had happened to you, so kind of like that.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, she would say quite a bit like what's little Greg doing? Can you talk to little Greg? Can you help little you know? And it's just just powerful Cause you're like closing your eyes, envisioning your little kid version of yourself. That's maybe being bullied or whatever the trauma you know, and you and you. Now, as the adult can be like it's going to be okay, we're good.
Speaker 2:
Give little Greg a hug or say yeah, exactly, and again, it's just having the space and having someone there to help you through it. And, honestly, if I wouldn't have done that last summer, I would still be living in that state, I'd still be triggered by things. So to me it was just such a powerful thing to do and I'm so grateful that I did it.
Speaker 2:
I'm so grateful that someone recommended it gave me permission to look into it, and that's the whole point of this is like permission. You can do this too, and you're free. You'll be free from whatever the trauma that you have.
Speaker 1:
Yes, as your wife, business partner, causer of some of your trauma and stress and problems and agitation, I definitely notice a major difference in the way that you respond to things versus react, or in the amount of time it takes you to kind of process through something that does bother you. It doesn't make things go away, it doesn't make uncomfortable, triggering feelings that make you angry or resentful or whatever the negative emotion is. It doesn't make them go away. It's just now you have learned to kind of like isolate them for what they are and know how to work with them. And so I want to ask about Barry.
Speaker 1:
So, as part of like meditating, we have learned that sometimes it's easier to give a name to the voices inside of our head. Right, we all have those voices inside of our head that go nuts and worst case scenario and just constant chatter and telling you all the things you should be and should do and shouldn't do, and everybody knows what I'm talking about, right, just your brain, that never is quiet. That's the point of meditation is to quiet down those voices, and through that process we've learned that by giving those voices a name. Sharon Salzberg calls hers Lucy, I call mine China.
Speaker 1:
We've talked about this before. Like China, is the bully that lives in my head that tells me because it was an old China, stop. Not because of that, but because of this big, you know, muscular female wrestler from when I was teased in middle school for being muscular. This is not about me, but that giving a name to the voices that pop up is powerful, because then you can kind of see it outside of yourself and disassociate with whatever that voice is telling you that it isn't actually you, it isn't actually what's happening. And so tell me about Barry.
Speaker 2:
Well, so me in a normal state is laid back, chill, easy going. That's when I'm normal, right right. But when I get triggered I become a kind of a caveman. And you remember that cartoon like Bugs Bunny cartoon guy he had the club, he's like a leopard skirt thing or whatever. That was my guy cloth, his Boing cloth, and his name was Barry and he was just like a caveman. Because Greg's hurt, I got to step up and protect. So I'm this four foot tall, you know.
Speaker 1:
Wily ass. Caveman Wily ass caveman guy.
Speaker 2:
So that was my protective mechanism. So through my process of going through the therapy was learning to be able to talk to him and be like it's all going to be okay, I'm safe. So when Barry would jump in to protect you because you felt hurt.
Speaker 1:
He would come in with his club Like nobody's going to hurt Greg, yeah, yeah. And you had to learn how to say that's Barry coming in to protect me. And how to say to Barry hey, buddy, I got this, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
I mean and you probably notice that, when we do have arguments because we're real people and you have disagreements In the past, instead of me getting like dirty and like low blow and like you know, just like really letting you have it about everything. But the thing Right, yeah, because I got to throw everything at you about everything. But the thing Right, yeah, because I got to throw everything at you here to win the battle.
Speaker 1:
That was Barry.
Speaker 2:
That was Barry. Yeah, that was Barry, and Barry was raging after the Red Bull coffee incident in Costa Rica.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
He was like this is bullshit, we're not going to deal with this anymore, this disrespect.
Speaker 1:
Yeah.
Speaker 2:
And wouldn't let it go for days. And then Mary don't come around much anymore. You know so and you have to see that.
Speaker 1:
No, I do, and I think it's so powerful, both through giving a name to the voices, like we learned in meditation and then giving a name and a persona to essentially what is your ego right.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I mean, it's the part of your ego that's like.
Speaker 1:
Gets charged up. Yeah, and protective.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, and honestly I don't want to sound again crazy, hokey, whatever, but after doing it if we're thinking about therapy and all these things and the residual effect of it I would just say it feels a lot quieter.
Speaker 2:
I feel, a lot more at peace and a lot more quiet. There's just a lot more knowing that you're okay, that things are okay. If you think about the state of the world and all the things. The news media, they know that they want us to be in this constant state of frazzled, on edge-ness. That, like I just don't feel that way.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, so it's helped you in other areas of your life too right.
Speaker 1:
Because the fear mongering that happens in the world you now are able to kind of like disassociate from that, knowing that, like, some of that may be valid, some of it may not. And instead of letting my ego jump in to protect me and reactivity to being scared, I'm like way more in control. I mean, I noticed that about you. I noticed that that has like a ripple effect into every area of your life and also an influence on like me and in every area of our life. We're like we have an 18 year old daughter.
Speaker 1:
She and I are the same person, so naturally mother, daughter, teenager you have conflict and when we have conflict we do this because neither of us are backing down and I am the adult and I should try to get rid of what I should and shouldn't be doing. But I should be able to have more control over my emotional reactivity, right, and I've learned the tools, I have the experience, more so than her. Like it's normal for a teenager to maybe be a little bit more out of control than like mom should, right, but you going through what you've gone through and learning the tools that you have and learning how to process through your own emotions and your own berry, when you see my berry come out, whatever my berry is called, you're able to help me. You intervene and say like, hey, hold on a second. And that's been helpful because I respect you in that way, knowing that you have done that work on your own and that what you're saying to me is valid.
Speaker 2:
Yes, and you become aware of it in other people too, some people that are always ready for battle. You know what I mean. It's like you don't have to yell at the person in the McDonald's drive-thru. It's nothing personal, they just forgot the tartar sauce on your fish sandwich. Which amazing story. We were in the freaking McDonald's drive-thru and all of a sudden this lady throws her car in reverse. We were the next ones in line and she was pulling, throws her car in reverse, almost crushes into us Kind of, goes beside us, gets out of the car, walks up to the drive-thru window Barefoot, yeah, and is like I need to get tartar sauce for my fish sandwich. I'm not waiting till I get home to eat it. And I was like what the hell this is happening?
Speaker 1:
this is an adult yeah and like what was it that made her feel so reactive to her berry?
Speaker 2:
yeah, like she had been disrespected at work. Maybe her kids mouthed off to her, maybe there was some you know other trauma and she was in the freaking red zone, or or deeper than that, and the tartar sauce just sent her over the edge deeper than that, though, like it could be so much deeper than that who? Knows.
Speaker 1:
Forgetting the tartar sauce made her feel this feeling of always being overlooked. The whole point is to go as deep as possible and even when it doesn't seem like it's related, that tartar sauce would set her over the edge, it could be something that lives so deeply inside of her, by being overlooked and forgotten and abandoned, that someone forgetting the tartar sauce how could they?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and it's not from a place of judgment. I mean, that story was funny because it was like I can't believe this is happening, but just, you'd never know the inner turmoil and the inner trauma that people are dealing with and why they're experiencing it in the first place. And so if we would all, or could all, have an experience of having someone guide us through, we would all be so much more at peace. We aren't taught how to deal with our emotions in this way, or how to explore our emotions in this way, sometimes because we're men and we're supposed to be macho and not deal with these things for whatever reason. We aren't. And so if we had more access.
Speaker 2:
I know the reason it's a sign of weakness.
Speaker 1:
It's admitting that I don't know how to deal with life on my own.
Speaker 2:
So that automatically makes me feel like less of a man. But again, if you just equate it to, if you don't lift weights, you don't work out, you're not going to be physically fit. So you have to go lift heavy things, you have to go run, you have to eat good food or you're going to feel like shit. Life's going to life. So you got to understand how to deal with your emotional self too, or just you get stuck. So it's just the work, it's the maintenance of being a human being. If you want to experience life in its fullest range of happiness and not live in a state of red zone, I think it's super important to deal with stuff and then also be aware that the people around you just assume that they're not in a good space, and be more compassionate with people Like why is this person so crazy and on edge? Just understand that it might be a hurt 12 year old, even though they're 50.
Speaker 1:
That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2:
The tartar sauce just sends them over the edge.
Speaker 1:
Well, I'm so happy that you completed this type of therapy. I noticed a major difference in who you are and how you show up for yourself and for the people around you, including, and most probably importantly, me and our kids, but also your business, your friends, your relationship to yourself, and thank you for being brave and sharing your experience with it with our listeners, in an effort to encourage people to seek that out on their own and I would also add to that I haven't really completed it.
Speaker 2:
I have started that journey and a chapter has been closed, but I'm definitely open to going back and it's just part of the process of living. It might not be EMDR, it might just be talk therapy, but always just knowing that you can always talk to someone.
Speaker 1:
That's right.
Speaker 2:
You're not alone. We're like 99.9999% the same, but we're all so different in our experiences and our traumas and our, our upbringings and our whatever petri dish you were, you were grown in, you know we're all just so different with those things. So that's what makes us so unique in our stories and we are just knowing that humans are very emotional. We make make decisions emotionally. You know and just know that you're dealing with highly emotional creatures every day when you're dealing with people.
Speaker 1:
you know that's right, everyone's details are different, but everyone's going through something or has gone through something that has formed and framed.
Speaker 2:
And that includes the way you talk to yourself. Yeah, because all day long we're talking to ourselves. The way you talk to yourself yeah, because all day long we're talking to ourselves, whether we-. And when China comes in, yeah, and now you can tell China have a seat. I got this when Barry's ready to go to war. We're good bro.
Speaker 1:
Put your club down.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, we're good.
Speaker 1:
One last thing Is it fair to say that now, when something triggering comes up, you're able to not just tell Barry to put his club down, but you're able to go hey, this isn't happening right now. This feeling that I have is isolated to what's happening in this moment, but when you start to go down that dark path, you're able to quickly discern that, like, hey, those things are not actually relevant to the situation anymore? Because I feel like that's the goal of EMDR therapy is to make sure that you stay in the moment, in the issue that you're dealing with, and not let that past experience cloud what's happening in the moment. Is that accurate?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I would say just, my practice is to live each day, so it's not a year or decade. It's like just focus on each day and, like at the end of each day, be grateful and then, when you wake up, just do your best and know that like I might have to deal with some some trauma today, knowing that your side of the street's clean, that you're in a good head space, you're taking care of the things that you can control, and then when someone does act out of pocket or someone is pissed off because they're tartar sauce or whatever, if you're shooting daggers through your eyes at me, I can easily look at you and be like I wonder what's wrong with her, like I wonder why she's.
Speaker 1:
What they're going through. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:
It's just. It's a lot more clarity and less feeling attacked.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, okay, good.
Speaker 2:
So there's like this armor that you have of, like like some people are walking around agitating people, like I'm not trying to agitate you yeah, I'm trying to do the unless I am but like you're, you're operating out of good intentions and you're just like I'm trying to kick ass and do the best, be the best dad I I can be, be the best husband, take care of myself the best I can, right, doing all the right things. And then if something is like a little heat and hot, you know, like whatever, you're just able to look at it with a little bit more clarity and it's not personal, like I know, I know this has nothing to do with me being able to see it for what it is, versus an emotional overlay.
Speaker 2:
Trying not to be emotional about everything.
Speaker 1:
EMDR therapy is obviously a form of therapy talk therapy we're big advocates of that and meditation, as I mentioned. Anything else that you would suggest to someone who might reach out to you and say, hey, I'm going through this shit, I can't go to therapy, or I've tried meditating. What would you say to them as an alternative or as encouragement, because we've heard that before and it's important to provide other alternatives if you have any suggestions from your experience.
Speaker 2:
I feel like hope and belief are the big things that people need to have. So like having someone to talk to, even if they're not a therapist, but just someone that you know will listen to you, and that's such a relief to be able to just kind of like connect and talk to people. And as men we don't. It's not just normal for us to sit around and unload our drama, you know, but like having a friend that you can talk to and A sounding board.
Speaker 1:
Like someone who's going to look objectively with you and just listen.
Speaker 2:
The worst thing is sitting and ruminating in your own thoughts and being stuck and feeling hopeless and feeling like I can't get out of this thing. You know taking action and feeling like I got this, even if it's just 1% better every day, or or you know baby steps or whatever you want to do, but talking about it and then you realize like, oh shit, it's not just me, you're messed up too. We're all messed up. We're all just hurt little kids trying to do the best we can and don't keep it bottled up, because you tell yourself stories and lie to yourself and it makes it worse.
Speaker 1:
I feel like Isolated and keep to yourself. Yeah, like. Another thing that I thought of is that there are organizations and free resources that are available and there are podcasts and there are different things, but you know that's all subject to where you're getting your information and then also, it's just more consumption versus getting it out, like you mentioned, which I think is a great, a great recommendation of being able to connect with someone and, to that point, if there isn't someone that you know or trust to talk to, there are actual organizations and resources and phone numbers and chats that you can get on to talk to someone you are never alone and trained professionals that are free resources. If paying to go see a therapist isn't an option for you, so you have permission to do that. It isn't weak, it isn't. There's nothing wrong with you. It is the best thing that you could do for yourself and for the people around you that you love.
Speaker 1:
So, thank you again. I feel like that was very brave and very open and very important to have conversations like that, specifically again, not to stereotype, but specifically as a man. So, thank you. You can find previous episodes where we've had conversations about things like this. You can find all of this information on my website, cameoelisebrauncom. You can sign up for my weekly reset newsletter where I kind of share what I'm going through from time to time on a weekly basis and the steps that I'm taking to get through them. In a way, that's kind of therapeutic for me to share, but also helpful to provide an extra perspective to the readers and the community. There so many ways to connect with us as well and we appreciate that you're here and thank you for listening.