Laura Marshall: Personal Ambition And The Ticking Clock

Ever wondered what it's like to transform your teenage dream into a bestselling reality? Join me, Nadine Matheson, as I have an incredibly honest conversation with renowned psychological thriller author Laura Marshall. From the nostalgic pages of her teenage diaries to the intricate balance of a long career and personal ambitions, Laura’s journey is nothing short of inspiring. We delve into the nitty-gritty of her writing process, the debate between being a pantser versus a plotter, her new novel, "A Good Place to Hide a Body", and the critical importance of finding a supportive community in the literary world.

But it’s not all smooth sailing. We tackle the emotional highs and lows of the writing profession, including the daunting task of following up a successful debut and the reality checks of the publishing world. Whether you're an aspiring writer or a seasoned author, this episode offers a heartfelt and motivating look at what it truly takes to succeed in the ever-evolving world of writing and publishing.

A Good Place to Hide a Body
Can you come round?' Dad says tremulously.
'Of course. Are you OK? Is it Mum?'
'No!' He almost shouts it. 'Just come quickly. The garden...the...body... we needyou, Penny.'
For women of Penny's generation, being on hand for elderly parents is just part of life. But for Penny, things have become a little more serious...

When she receives a frantic phone call from her parents one night, with express instructions NOT to call the police, Penny rushes over at once. But they haven't had a fall. They haven't forgotten their computer passwords. They've killed someone. And his body is lying in the garden, right next to the rose bushes.
Everyone is capable of murder. They just need to meet the right person.

Follow Laura Marshall

30% off The Kill List
You can get 30% off my brand new book The Kill List on harpercollins.co.uk for a limited time.  Add code TKL30 at checkout.  

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

and really all I want is to be able to make a living from it. So I just really don't want to have to go back to my old job. That's, that's my, that's my only aim, like I don't think I'm kind of not expecting to have another huge, huge book, like time request was. I probably won't, and that's fine as long as I can continue to make a living from writing.

Speaker 2: 0:21

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the Conversation Podcast with your host, best-selling author, Nadine Matheson. As always, I hope that you're well and I hope that you had a good week. So last week I think it was last week last week I appeared on a panel and at the end of the panel there's always a Q&A, and one of the Q&As was about how do you start your novel, and I just thought I would repeat my well, I'm calling it advice for all the writers out there. There isn't really a perfect way to start your novel. There's not a one-size-fits-all approach to starting your novel. This may sound like a really lazy answer, but the best thing you can do, my best advice to you, is just to sit down and start. You don't need the perfect laptop, you don't need the perfect software program, you don't need the perfect notebook and pen. You just find whatever I say device works best for you and you just sit down and start and you tell the story that you want to tell and you kind of have to write that first draft without any fear, without thinking about bestsellers, lists and trends. You just need to write the story that you want to write and once you've completed that first draft. I mean, that's the first battle over with. You've completed that first draft. Now you're able to look back, look at what you've written, look at your characters, look at your plot, see what works, what doesn't work, and you just take it from there. You literally take it one step at a time and once you start the process of writing, that's when you'll start to learn about what your writing style is. That's when you'll discover whether or not you're a pantser or a plotter.

Speaker 2: 2:16

I discovered I was very much a plotter when, I think I probably attempted about three novels, got to about 20,000 words and I didn't have a plan and it was always at that 20,000 word mark that I got absolutely stuck. I've got a book that I started writing years ago and there's a character called Nick and I've never forgotten Nick because Nick is still hanging around the living room waiting for me to do something with him and the reason he's not moving is because I didn't have a plan for him. But it's only through practicing and stopping and starting novels that I was able to learn whether or not I was a pantser or a plotter. So yeah, that's my advice to you just start and just see, see where the wind takes you. And speaking of novels, you can still get 30% of my novel, the Kill List, which is the fourth book in the Inspector Henley series, if you buy it directly from harpercollinscouk. So if you go down to the show notes, you will see the code TKL30. You will get 30% of the Kill List, which is a really big discount.

Speaker 2: 3:21

Now let's get on with the show. This week I'm in conversation with author Laura Marshall and in our conversation we talk about seeing your writing aspirations in your teenage diaries, whether there's a right time to be published and the importance of finding your tribe as a writer. Now, as always, sit back. We'll go for a walk and enjoy the conversation. Laura Marshall, welcome to the conversation. Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2: 3:50

You are so welcome. But, laura, my first question for you is who was Laura Marshall before she became Laura Marshall?

Speaker 1: 4:03

psychological thriller author. Psychological thriller author. Well, I, my first book wasn't published till I was 40. I was like 42, so obviously I've been working for 20 plus years. Before that. I work in conferences in like business conferences, researching. I was a conference producer. It's like researching topics, getting speakers, organizing programs. Basically it's really boring and I hated it. I did it for a really long time, yeah. So I'd always, I had always wanted to write like forever, but I don't know, I just I had to make a living and I just didn't really know like how you would go about writing a book or you know, getting a book published. I just just felt like know like how you would go about writing a book or you know, getting a book published. I just just felt like something that was unachievable. So I didn't. I used to. You know I wrote. I used to write. You know I started books and abandoned, used to write terrible poetry when I was younger and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 5:01

But I just, yeah, I just thought it wasn't a thing that you could do, even though I really really wanted it. I didn't really do anything towards trying to get it until I was in my 40s, you know, apart from writing. But I never, I never showed anybody that writing or did anything with it.

Speaker 2: 5:15

Were you writing when you were young? You know like you're not teenagers, but when you're talking about writing really bad poetry I remember writing. I don't know, I don't know why. I considered myself a songwriter for about 10 minutes when I was 14 and they're really bad songs. Yeah, I think.

Speaker 1: 5:30

I wrote some songs actually, and definitely poetry, when yeah, when I was a teenager and I kept a diary as well, so I wrote copiously in my diary, which I still got yeah yeah, because actually I read it.

Speaker 1: 5:42

So my first book half frontish, half of it is set when the character is 16 in the 80s and half of it is in the present day. I mean, she's now 40 and I was kind of just trying to get back into that teenage mindset, so I read some of it when I was, when I was writing that, which is interesting what's it like going back to your teenage self.

Speaker 1: 6:05

I mean, you know, in some ways some of the stuff is kind of cringy, but actually I just thought, oh god, I mean, I was quite miserable a lot of the time and I just, you know, I just felt sorry for me really and kind of wish, but I could have been more confident. I think you know that's what I feel when I read it. I feel sad, but I was more confident when I was a teenager.

Speaker 2: 6:27

Were your writer aspirations there in your like in your teenage diaries. Could you see it?

Speaker 1: 6:35

No, I don't think. I see it was more about, you know, boys and friends and stuff like that. Priorities, yeah, but I definitely had them because actually when I, when I did finally publish, lots of old friends, people that had known me back then, were like oh my god, you finally achieved your dream. And I'd almost not even realized that I, that it had been my dream for that long or that I'd vocalized it to anyone. But I must have done, because lots of people said to me, oh my god, why are they doing that?

Speaker 2: 7:08

yeah. It's not strange, though, when you think about you know, when you're looking back, you can't see yourself talking about it, or even, maybe, expressing it to people, but then you know fast forward. So let's just say god, 30 years, fast forward, 30 years. And people who are around you at that time are now saying to you no, but you spoke about these things, these are, this is what you want to talk about. Being a writer, yeah, yeah, no, I definitely must have done.

Speaker 1: 7:38

Yeah, yeah, but I just yeah, this took me a really long time to get there, but then I think that's quite common, isn't it? I've got lots of friends with you know, as you have, who are my sort of age, and lots of them weren't published until they were in their 40s or 50s or even later. Sometimes used to be quite a common thing, maybe especially for women, I don't know, because obviously I also had kids when I was in my early 30s. I would then feel like I could you know that there was time for writing at that time, or the opportunity to sort of do something a bit risky financially, because obviously I was also working so, yeah, do you think?

Speaker 2: 8:23

well, not even that. Do you think it's? I think that it's. It's so like part in, I say in the atmosphere that you need to achieve certain things. By the time you're 30, you know you'll pick up a magazine. Like the beginning of the year you'll pick up a magazine or newspaper and there'll be whether it's business, whether it's just that it's literary or music. It'll be like the top 30 under 30.

Speaker 2: 8:49

Yeah yeah and that's constantly being thrown at you. And then, as you're working your way through your 40s, you're like, hmm, maybe this might be a little bit too late for me?

Speaker 1: 9:01

yeah, definitely, but actually it's so not I don't know. I don't know any writers, I don't think any of my writer friends were successful or published in their 20s, even really so actually, that is one thing that the industry isn't. I think is is ageist. Actually, I think if you've written a good book that a publisher thinks is going to sell, they didn didn't care less how old you are. Really you know. That is actually one thing that they're not, they don't care about, I think.

Speaker 2: 9:31

Do you think if you'd had the success that you had with your first novel, with Friends, Request? If you do, you think you would have been ready for that if you'd had been in your 20s, like 25, 26?

Speaker 1: 9:44

Probably not, to be honest. I mean, in some ways I do wish I tried to do it earlier, because I really was not happy in my previous career. I really there was really nothing about it that I liked sorry, my former employer are listening unlikely. So in some ways I do wish I'd done it earlier because I kind of feel like I wasted a lot of time. You know, if I could have made a living out of it earlier, that would have been great. But yeah, I don't think. I think. Yeah, definitely in my 20s I think I would have been ready.

Speaker 1: 10:20

You know, I don't think I had the confidence that I've got now. I definitely didn't. In fact, I was quite shy when I was younger and I had the confidence that I've got now. I definitely didn't. In fact, I was quite shy when I was younger and I think the jobs that I did, although I didn't enjoy them, they did actually force me to become more confident because I would go into events and conferences and having to talk to people that I didn't know, and that was actually really, really good for me.

Speaker 2: 10:42

So, yeah, I probably I probably wasn't ready then, but yeah, maybe I wish I hadn't left quite so late, maybe yeah, but it's hard, I think, to say, you know, I shouldn't have left it so late, because it clearly wasn't late, it was like the right time for you, which was the story we tell ourselves.

Speaker 1: 11:04

Yeah, yeah, and I think it probably was really. And you know, there's my I wouldn't have been able to do it when my children were really small, but I know people do, but I think I would have struggled to do it when my children were small because that just having really small children just takes so much headspace. So they were a little bit older by the time my first book was published and they're teenagers now, one of them's nearly an adult, so it's totally different.

Speaker 2: 11:25

Who was the first person you showed your writing to my writing that's ended up being published, or any writing. First thought of any writing and then the first, like when you first wrote a book any writing would be.

Speaker 1: 11:43

I did. I did write a poem that won a competition, actually when I was 13. It was like a WH Smith young poet competition or something. So, so lots of people well, I'll say lots of people read that. Probably not many people did, but I think the first time I showed anyone, I think, the book I was writing I did. I did write quite a big chunk of a book when I was in my before just four heads I guess, when I was about 30, and I think I did show that to my husband at the time. I think I did, yeah, maybe not all of it, but a bit of it. And then this time, with the books that have been published, I hadn't showed it to anybody until I did the Curtis Brown Creative course.

Speaker 1: 12:28

I did a three-month novel writing course which is like an evening class once a week in London, and you had to, I hadn't. I've had this idea in my head. The friend of mine to the book. That would come from a question, the blind idea for it, literally a sentence. But I just didn't know how you would make that into a book like well, a book is like a hundred thousand words. This is just. This is like a sentence, it's just an idea. I had no idea how to go about it so I thought I'll look for a course.

Speaker 1: 12:56

I googled creative writing courses and loads came up. So I knew one person that had written a book. It was a girl I was at university with and had a couple of novels published. She was the only person I knew who'd written a book. So I really been in touch to her for a while. But I messaged her I mean emailed her and like, what course do I do? And she recommended Curtis Brown. I looked at him.

Speaker 1: 13:19

I thought, oh no, I can't do that, because you had to send in your writing for them to see if it was good enough for you to join the course. And I didn't have any writing because I hadn't written it, hadn't started it. And I said, oh no, I can't do that, I can't do that. And she's like no, well, you know, give it, it'd be a good discipline to write, write the chapter. You only have to send the chapter and it's a lot more. You write the chapter, send it in. So I so I did so. I wrote the first chapter justified for the course, sent it in and I've got accepted onto the course and then one of the first things we had to do in the course was, every week, two people would have to submit a thousand words or whatever it was for everybody to critique, and then you'd have to sit there for 15 minutes while people gave you the feedback.

Speaker 2: 14:03

So that was really the first time anyway, like when you're, I said isn't it the worst thing when you start these courses? Because you're not. You know you have to produce work and I think you're only just expecting, like your tutors, to see your work and reflect on your work. And even I remember the first time I sat in the room and you know your work had gone out maybe the week before. And then you're sitting there waiting for the feedback and you're like, oh my god, all eyes are on me and I don't think I like it and I was the first one as well.

Speaker 1: 14:39

There was 15 people on our course, but I was in the first batch, the first week of people to get the feedback, so it's like not the first day but the second week, you know like once we've had the first lesson and I thought, said really, that was the first time anyone had read my work.

Speaker 1: 14:55

So that was kind of a revelation, to be honest, because it was like, and getting onto the course was a bit of a revelation because, because I hadn't shown anyone, I didn't know if I was any good. Obviously I had this idea oh yeah, right, but when you haven't shown anyone, when you haven't had any feedback, you don't know, I didn't, I genuinely didn't know. And in getting some good feedback, like from the tutor and from the other people on the course, it was like, oh my god, well, maybe I, maybe I could do, if I can do this. You know, that was the first time I thought, oh god, maybe I, maybe I'm good at this, maybe I maybe I can do it.

Speaker 2: 15:30

Can I be really cruel and take you back to that feedback moment that first time? Because I was just thinking about what did you tell yourself to get through that moment? Because it's so. It's not like doing anything else, not like you talk about your job and you need to know you didn't like your job, but you know your job and you become comfortable because you know what you're doing and even like me and my jobs like being in front of people is what I do, so it didn't bother me. But being in that different environment, doing something that's yours and it's identifiable as yours, how do you get yourself through that moment?

Speaker 1: 16:08

like I honestly can't remember. I think I was probably, I think it was probably a bit of a blur. I think you just have to kind of think okay, I'm just going to sort of sit here, I'm just going to get through this. I mean it was good. Obviously we were encouraged to give constructive, to give ease to things that were good and constructive feedback. So it wasn't like sitting there for 15 minutes where everybody flagged off your chapter, you know. So I think you know, and I think most of it was was good. Really, you know, there was a few things where kind of on the bad points, and you, when somebody, you and some you think something's good and somebody points it out, and you're like, oh god, I can can't be like this, that I can't remember anything specific, but yeah, but no, it was, it was brilliant. I mean I absolutely loved that course and it kind of changed everything for me.

Speaker 2: 16:57

Do you ever have any doubts, when you're doing that course, about yourself and what your? You know what the next step would be if you wanted to finish the course.

Speaker 1: 17:08

No, not really I. I was weirdly sort of like you know, because I knew that they would quite often say look, not this, don't think that this course is some kind of shortcut to being published. Obviously there is advantages to it.

Speaker 1: 17:26

And I was lucky that I was able to afford to do the course because they're not cheap. But they were like, don't think, oh, everyone on this course will get published. They won't, and that hasn't been the case. There are three people who've been published out of the 15 of us, so there was me, eleni Kiriakou, generally and alex hey, yeah, yeah, he was on my course, but the others haven't been. So they would seem to quite often say you know, don't think this is some kind of shortcut, not everyone's gonna get published.

Speaker 1: 17:58

But I would sort of think and I sometimes in my head, you're thinking, I am, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna go rubbish, which is weird because I wasn't that confident about it at all before, before I did it, I think what it also made me realize was that I'd had a really good idea and I think a lot of the reason that fem request did well was because it had a really distinct hook that was easily translatable into a title and a strap line and a cover and it was easy for the salespeople to sell it into the shops.

Speaker 1: 18:31

And I think everything that was special about that book came from purely from having this, which I'd come up with completely by accident. I didn't know a hook was a thing. I didn't know that I knew nothing about publishing. I didn't know it was a thing that you wanted to have a good hook that you could express in a sentence you'd like the holy grail. I didn't know that, but I'd accidentally come up with something that was that and that was something that really came through straight when I was doing the course, because I went down we had to go around the table on the first night and say what our book was about and I said, oh, my book's about a woman, a 40-year-old woman, who gets a friend request from a girl she bullied at school, but the girl's been dead for 25 years.

Speaker 2: 19:17

And everyone's like ooh, ooh.

Speaker 1: 19:20

And then when Erin Kelly was my tutor the novelist Erin Kelly, who's now a friend of mine, really and then she wrote in the feedback for the next week that little ooh, that is gold, you know. And I just didn't know that. So that was, yeah, so it definitely. I don't know, I don't know. I think I was quite determined once I knew that I'd had a good idea and I and I got good feedback on my writing. It made me really determined to try and finish, I mean when I started, because I only had two chapters, that's all I'd written by the end of the course. Three months later I nearly finished it.

Speaker 2: 20:02

So do you think you, you know you was that show of yourself because of where you were in your life, because I'm not, I'm not god. It's gonna sound terrible not saying you're like you're desperate for a change in your life, but you know this is now what you want and you're ready to that sounds really bad, yeah no, no, you're ready to that sounds really bad, you're ready to pursue it yeah, I think it was.

Speaker 1: 20:26

I think it was like not exactly now or never, but it felt like this is the best chance I'm ever gonna have of doing this. And I could just feel it. And like halfway through the course, we had a meeting with Anna Davies, who runs the courses, and so it was a meeting that was part of the course that you had with her to talk about the marketability of your book, really, and which agents you thought you should target when you finished it, etc. And in that meeting, she said to me I think some of the agents, I think lots of agents, will be interested in this book, but you need to finish it quickly because it's a psychological thriller. And I can't, because there was that over, you know, in 2016, and saying that, ever since, I don't think they are. You know, it's a, it's a saturated market, which it is. So she was like you, you know, I think you've got a good chance, but you need to finish it quickly.

Speaker 1: 21:17

And that somebody saying that to me, I just thought I cannot throw away this opportunity. Like if someone's just, you know, very influential person is saying that to me, I absolutely mustn't waste that and just go. Oh, I can't. You know, it's maybe like halfway through the book. You get to that point halfway, don't you? When you're like, oh god?

Speaker 2: 21:37

you know, when you're sitting there in that moment and the tutor's telling you, you know you need to finish this, but you can get an agent. And I was thinking about when I had that same moment. I was sitting doing my course and you'd have these, you'd have these regular sessions with your tutor to see how he's progressing with the novel. And I'm and my my tutor was Claire McGowan and I remember sitting there with her and she said I really think agents would be interested. This is the jigsaw man. She said I really think agents would be interested. This is the jigsaw man I was working with. I really think agents would be interested. And I was sitting there going yeah right, yeah right, whatever, I'm not sure. She's just telling me this stuff to make me feel good about myself.

Speaker 1: 22:18

No, but you see, they don't do that, they don't do that, no, no. I was like right, ok, gonna, I'm gonna finish this book then. So I fast back. I was working full-time then was freelance, but full-time so I started getting up at like five o'clock in the morning every day and writing before work and just wrote it really quickly by the not long, well, I think. So I started the course in November. I had like two chapters and I'd finished it by like April. I reckon I'd finished it well, I think.

Speaker 2: 22:52

I finished. It finished the first like the draft.

Speaker 1: 22:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. That obviously wasn't. That was not how the book was in the end.

Speaker 2: 22:59

But was there any time in those five o'clock in the morning starts, because that would just kill me. Five o'clock is not the time that I want to see in the morning, was there? Any time that you were sitting there thinking no like why?

Speaker 1: 23:14

well, weirdly, no, and I'm not a morning person I thought getting up at five now so it horrifies me. But I was like on a mission. I was like. I was just like I just thought this is it, this is not that it's definitely going to. Just like I just thought this is it? Not that it's definitely going to happen. But this is my chance and it might be my only chance, but I just cannot blow it. So I was no, I was pretty. Every day I would get up at five.

Speaker 2: 23:38

It just goes to show how so much of it is down to mindset, because we can talk ourselves out so many things, so many opportunities that are available for us, because you know it could be the age thing, because we're thinking, oh, we should have done this when we were 25, when we're 30, not when we're in the 40s, or you just tell yourself, actually it's not good enough. Or it could have been one person not saying it happened, but it could be one person doing those feedback sessions who could have just spoken negatively on one small aspect of your work which has set you into a cycle of no, I can't do this. This is a mistake.

Speaker 1: 24:15

Yeah, yeah, no, I think that easily could have happened. To be honest, yeah, when you think back, you're like, luckily, all the I don't know everything just came together at the right time and I just yeah, and I definitely took advantage of that.

Speaker 2: 24:30

How soon did you find an agent? So you finished your book.

Speaker 1: 24:34

Well, so I'd finished the first draft, and I knew it was only a first draft. I knew it needed a lot of work, definitely. But in the meantime, the other thing that I had done which again shows a sort of weird confidence which I almost can't believe that I had now I'd entered it for a couple of competitions, like unpublished novel competitions.

Speaker 1: 24:58

So, I'd entered the Lucy Cavendish Fiction Prize, which is for unpublished women, and the Bath Novel Award, which is again for unpubublished authors, unpublished people. So I dented it into both of those and around the same time that the quarter finished I found out I was sport limited in both of them, which, again with the Lucy Cavendish, was the first one I found out about and that to me was just huge. That was really like, oh my god, I just, I just I genuinely thought it was. Just I was entering it but I never, never really thought that it would get anywhere, that it would get longlisted or shortlisted. I really didn't. So when it did, that was a huge thing for me.

Speaker 1: 25:36

So the lucy cavendish prize was judged by nell andrew, who's an agent for the SD Part of being shortlisted. You've got a consultation with her, like a half-hour consultation with her. And the agent I really wanted from Kevin Brown, where I've done the course, was Felicity Blunt, who is my agent now. So when I knew I had shortlisted in the Lucy Cavendish and the Barth novel, I wrote to Anna and said look, I've got this meeting with Mel. Andrew, I really wanted Felicity.

Speaker 1: 26:09

Do you think I've got this first off? Do you think she would read it, given that I know if it wasn't ready I would never have sent it to an agent in the state it was literally as it had come out. I hadn't done any editing to it, so I knew it wasn't ready. But I thought, well, this is a kind of a chance and I so I said to Anna would would she read it and like on the understanding of it for the first time? I don't want her to think I was like, she was like. So she said, oh, I'll go and talk to her. And then five minutes later I got an email from Felicity, like her name popped up in my inbox and she was like oh yeah, I'd love to read it.

Speaker 1: 26:45

Like you know, I understand it's only a first draft and blah, blah, blah. So like I kind of used the facts in a way that a from a rival agency was going to be reading it and I was having a meeting with her. So I ended up and just sort of by chance, I had this meeting with now, when Felicity was like I'll come, I'll send it to me, send it to me. So I sent it to her. She read it like in a few days, and got back and was like yes, I'd love to meet, come in for a meeting. So I ended up having a meeting in the same day. So I was being now in the morning, this day in the afternoon. It's just like going on in my life. Like I was like literally like, oh my God, I was so scared that I was going to like break my leg or something like before the day and not be able to go. So I like barely moved out of my chair for about a week anyway.

Speaker 1: 27:39

So then I had the meeting with Nell and it was really good actually and she had some good feedback. She didn't offer to represent me, but she said if you can do some work on which obviously it did need you could do this work. You know I'd love to sit again when we're on the work kind of thing with a few to perhaps represent me. And then I went to see Felicity straight after and she had actually mostly the same feedback, to be honest, which is which is sort of reassuring in a way. Two people thought things were wrong with it. And then we sort of got to the end of the meeting and she still hadn't said whether she wanted to represent me, and I'm like I can't leave this meeting without not knowing whether she actually whether she wants me to go and do the work. So I kind of steeled myself and asked her. I was like what's?

Speaker 2: 28:22

wrong with you? What does that mean? You might be 14 again.

Speaker 1: 28:27

Yeah, oh God, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 28:29

Okay.

Speaker 1: 28:30

So I basically timed with her on that day so that all I mean that all happened quickly, the whole thing happened quickly. I know that's really lucky and not a lot of people's experience.

Speaker 2: 28:45

What was it like when you came out of that meeting? Because I keep saying I remember, I do. I remember coming out of my meetings with I saw three agents who got back to me and they said they wanted to see me when the book was. I sent the book out to various agents and I went for three of them so they wanted to sign me and every time I walked out I was like, oh my god, it felt otherworldly. When I left there and stepped out, exactly it like exactly what's going on these people are just going about their day and then aging.

Speaker 1: 29:21

This is what they want to represent. Oh my god, that's what it is.

Speaker 2: 29:25

that's how I felt in Holborn, walking out of Holborn, high Holborn, thinking what the hell's going on like? How can you just be walking going to St Brees I don't know local to get your lunch? And this has happened to me that's exactly what it was like.

Speaker 1: 29:40

Yep, yep, oh, so nostalgic for those kind of that early excitement.

Speaker 2: 29:49

You know what I mean so you know you had this sort of things. Like everything seems to be in alignment for you, Like you've been headstrong in determining this is what I want, I'm going to go and do it, that's it. You know there's only one route of travel for you. And then you know, you finish your book, you sign up your agent and then you have the success with friend requests. I don't think you can ever be prepared for success on that level. So how did you deal with it?

Speaker 1: 30:22

well, I mean, it was brilliant. Obviously I, I wish, I wish I'd sort of known how brilliant it was because, like none of my other books have been as successful as remember quest by a long, long talk. So I wish, I wish I did and I did appreciate it. It was brilliant, it was absolutely amazing. But when it's your first, I don't, you don't, I don't think I realized quite how amazing it was. So it's almost like oh okay, yeah, it's just a bestseller. Oh, it sold, you know, hundreds of thousands in Kindle, not that I thought that was normal, but I don't think I quite appreciated how extraordinary it was until I, you know, I have three other books which didn't do anything like that. So, yeah, it's a funny way round for it to happen. Really, I don't know which is better or worse.

Speaker 2: 31:21

Is it? I know I think it's difficult to say, does it feel? I mean, the second book's always hard. Then again, I just think every book is hard. Like I'm writing the fourth book now and I was talking to a friend before we started interviewing and I was saying to her I'm 35,000 words into this book and I just think it's crap. I don't, I don't, I don't know what's going on, I don't know who's, I don't know why the people are doing what they're doing, even though I know these people and it's just classic 35,000 words.

Speaker 1: 31:52

That's what happens. At 35,000 words, it will be okay. You just need someone to say it always happens at 35,000 words. Don will be okay. You just need some of the decisions. It always happens at 35,000 yeah, don't worry, it's gonna be fine it doesn't.

Speaker 2: 32:03

I don't know that because it happens with the kilnish of the third book that I wrote and I remember getting to that same stage thinking this is this crap, I, I, what's the point? Like they're gonna people gonna figure out I'm a fraud. I think that's what it is in the first book was a fruit yeah, yeah, oh.

Speaker 1: 32:22

Every time. I get that every time. No, it's gonna say, and it's genuine as well. It's not even like oh, kind of being false, modest or something. It's literally like I remember with my new, the new one that's coming out this year, when I got to that point about 30 000 words. I remember just thinking this is pointless, like nothing happens in this book. Who are these people like and genuinely thinking? I don't know, I might just have to abandon it and start again, which you know wasn't, wasn't the case at all but like oh, yeah, I don't know how you get. I mean, that's just part of the process. You have to accept it yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:02

So how do you? You know, when you said you had all that like really big success, because you know getting in Sunday times it's not easy you don't realize that until you're in this industry and you're building it for like a year, you're like, oh, this is how it works, this is how, yeah, you know, it's not easy to get these things. And then when you get that, with your first book, and if you see second book, two, three and four not having that same trajectory, how do you manage that? Does it this? Does imposter syndrome kick in? Or was it just, I don't know, like I don't know.

Speaker 1: 33:36

I think with the second book I was disappointed that it didn't sell best, because I'd kind of thought, oh, you just like a book and sells loads, and that's really easy. And then it didn't happen again, you know. But I think after that I'm just more, I'm more, but I think after that I'm just more cynical it's not really the right word. I'm just a bit more accepting that some books do well, some books don't. It's often not really that much to do with how good the book is. Obviously, I think a book has to be good to sell well.

Speaker 1: 34:16

But there's loads of brilliant, you know, that come out all the time. That aren't massive bestsellers. And it's not because they're not good, it's just because the publishers have to decide which they're really going to get behind, because they can't really get behind all the books that they publish because there's too many of them. So if that's not your book, then it's unlikely to sell brilliantly. So I understand that now and that's fine, because it kind of has to work like that. So I just think all you can really do is just keep writing the best books that you can and just hope that it's your turn again at some point. And really all I want is to be able to make a living from it, so I just really don't want to have to go back to my old job. That's, that's my, that's my only aim. Like I don't think I'm kind of not expecting to have another huge, huge, but like friend request was, I probably won't, and that's fine as long as I can continue to make a living from writing. That's the only thing that's really important to me.

Speaker 2: 35:18

The thing is, though, you're also expecting it the first time around, were you. I mean, with friend requests, it was. You know, you did. I'm not gonna say like. You had this dream and you, you set out to achieve something and you achieved it, and it exceeded it yeah, yeah, I know, I mean it was absolutely extraordinary.

Speaker 1: 35:35

When I look back on it now I think, oh my God, I kind of almost can't believe that happened. And you know I have made a career out of it. Yes, my other books haven't been as successful as that, but most books are not, you know. And I'm still making a living from writing, which is, you know, the absolute dream for me.

Speaker 2: 35:58

I think that's the thing about when you become part of this industry, when you are whether you're self-published or traditionally published as an author it does. I think it's the only job where you feel the next thing you do, the next project, the next book you put out, put out there. It literally feels like you're starting again, like you're being a first-time author yeah, yeah, I don't think there's.

Speaker 1: 36:17

I think in it's like, I think, particularly in the sort of you know I wrote, I write standalone psychological thrillers. I don't write a series. I think if you write a series, obviously you do carry your readers with you, but when you write standalone, I don't think there's that much loyalty to authors, particularly, I think, in that in that genre I think people just are just after a good story and a good hook and they're not that bothered about who has written it, obviously with the exception of, like, really big names people you know people like Lisa Jewell, people looking out for her next book. But unless you're at that really really stratospheric level, I don't think there's all that much sort of loyalty to authors, which is fair enough. People are just looking for for a good bit. So, yeah, I think you are starting again every time how do you keep yourself going through that?

Speaker 2: 37:03

especially, you know, like for you, when you said you built you, you know you wanted everything, you wanted all of this and you achieved it. And then the rest of it is god, I feel terrible. But the rest of it is like it's less of a, it's more of a bum down here. I'm trying not to stop. Now that I can see them doing all these hand actions, I'm like it's a roller coaster. But how do you, god, how do you get? How do you personally get through it? Like what do you have to tell? How do you get? How do you personally get through it? Like what?

Speaker 1: 37:41

do you have to tell yourself to get through those moments? That's a really good question, I don't know, I think. I think it's just, I just want to keep writing and for this to keep being my job. So in order for that to happen, I've got to keep writing. I can't just, if I stop, then I've given up. You know, and there's always the hope, the hope of the next book isn't there. You know, this is going to be another big one In a way. I don't even really mind. It's a huge, huge seller. I just like I say, I just want to be able to keep making enough money for this to be my job, basically Because it to be able to keep making enough money for this to be my job, basically because it is a brilliant job to have you know.

Speaker 2: 38:21

So now you've been in it and your how many books. Your fifth book is coming out, isn't it fifth? Yeah, july, yeah, so now you're going to be, we will talk about the fifth book. But now that you're five books in is, what is your perception of the industry as a whole now?

Speaker 1: 38:41

I guess I'm just a lot more realistic about the fact that it's a business and about how it works and, as I said, I had absolutely no idea how it works. You know anything about publishing at all, like most people don't, I suppose. Do they? Yeah, and I think yeah. I think the thing that I understand now is I've already said this, but I was saying just now about, you know, it's not actually not about, like you know, when my subsequent books didn't sell as well, but you know, my friends were like oh, but I love this, what you know, my husband's killer I thought it was the old, best one yet and I'm like well, it might be, but that doesn't mean anything, doesn't mean that it's going to be more successful than a book, that it might be better than that's just not how it works. So I guess I'm just a bit clearer eyed and more realistic about how it works yeah, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing to be.

Speaker 2: 39:41

I think you should. I think all writers need to be realistic and clear about how it works and then but then for those who don't, I don't think that's any fault on them.

Speaker 1: 39:51

I think that's because the industry is not necessarily that transparent anyway, no, no, I don't think it is, because there is a lot of. Every time you go to a meeting or you have a meeting with your editor or you know, it's always very much like oh this is amazing, amazing, always so thrilled with this, thrilled with that, like, which is great. But yeah, I think debut authors can be quite ill prepared for the realities of publishing and I don't think there's a lot of informational help out there unless you can form your own networks and obviously there are some great like online groups and stuff where people do share their experiences. But if you're not part of any of those, I think it's quite difficult to get a realistic understanding of how it works and what it's actually going to be like.

Speaker 2: 40:39

I think one of the best things that's happened to me and not even just me, I know other authors who, like in my in my friend circle now, do all the same it's establishing and finding your tribe of writers very early on, especially when you know you've got if your debuts and you're coming out. There's a group of us like all our books came out in the same, yeah, and you just naturally just gravitate towards each other. And there's others who I met when I did the, I did um, my creative writing course, and we're still friends now and a couple of them, you know, their books came out yeah, patricia came out the same year I did. So you were all. We're all going through the same experience together, no matter how you, how it's turned out. I'm not in the end, it's not over, but you know, no matter how it's progressing, we're all there together in the beginning and that was so invaluable.

Speaker 1: 41:32

Yeah, no, absolutely that's been, that's probably been. My favourite thing about becoming an author is the author friends that I've made, and I've similarly got a really good group of friends who we all write crime mostly and we were all published around. Our first books all came out around sort of 2017, 2016, 2017 and those are still my kind of closest friends in publishing now and that is absolutely invaluable because, you know, if something happens, you know you can just get on the chat and be like, oh my god, you know the publishers said this blah blah, blah and then, oh, yeah, that happened to me and yeah, and just and just the kind of emotional support that you need as well when things going badly. So, yeah, that's, that's absolutely huge for me, yeah yeah, because you need.

Speaker 2: 42:17

You need someone to say not only that I hear you, but also I understand, because you can tell your friends and family who are outside of industry what's going on, but not in a horrible way. But you know, as far as they're concerned, they see your books in. If they walk into Tesco's and they see your book, they're like oh my god, you know yeah you must be rolling.

Speaker 2: 42:35

Yeah, exactly, they go rolling. All is good, everything's rosy in the world. Like what are you complaining about that? You don't know how many books waterstones have taken. Like what one does it matter? I just saw your booking test goes yeah, yeah, no, exactly yeah.

Speaker 1: 42:50

That's what you really really need people to understand. It's like when people that are not in publishing taking how's your book selling?

Speaker 1: 42:56

you're like I don't know, for about two weeks at the beginning and they're known for dispensaries. But I'm like, well, I'm assuming badly because I think if it's good with Femrequest, they did keep telling me every week for ages because that's the only bit that was selling well. So I always think, like you know, no news is bad news probably. But for people outside the industry, for you to not really have that much sense of how afforded, not to know how much your book has sold, is that seems extraordinary to people about annoying.

Speaker 2: 43:31

No, it's absolutely mad actually, because, as I said, I wouldn't if I was going back to my old job and someone asked me how my case was doing like how's your trial going? I would have an answer for them.

Speaker 1: 43:42

It's like somebody said to me how many people are coming to the conference.

Speaker 2: 43:46

I don't know it's incredible to me to say I you know, I ain't got a clue, I ain't got a clue.

Speaker 1: 43:55

I don't know what's happening.

Speaker 2: 43:56

I know what's going on next week. I don't know what the you know. I may not know what the final verdict is going to be, but I can tell you how well or how badly things have gone. But when it comes to your own book, I'm like I may after two weeks, I think I don't know could have sold two copies, could have sold 200, I I'd. I don't know what's bad when you think about it what piece of advice do you wish you'd been told earlier in your career?

Speaker 1: 44:27

oh gosh, oh, I don't know. I mean, I suppose, again, like what we've just been saying would be, it would have been good to have a bit more of an understanding about how it was going to be, but I don't really know how. I don't really know how you could get that. I mean, in a way, you can only only get that through experiencing it, don't you? Yeah, and I guess maybe I wish I tried a bit earlier. Not, you know, maybe not massively earlier, but I wished, maybe I'd showed my writing someone, someone who said, oh, this is quite good. A bit earlier on. I did. But yeah, other than that, other than that, I think you just have to, you just have to experience it, and that's how you learn the things, isn't it?

Speaker 2: 45:15

so your fifth novel, a good place to hide the body. Firstly, how does it feel to be on book number five?

Speaker 1: 45:23

it feels pretty good actually yeah, it kind of feels like oh, I feel like maybe this is what I do now. So I think for the first few books it was almost like oh, do I still do this? Is it going to come to an end? And I had two book deal and then another two book deal, whereas this and this, but I've gone to a new publisher. So I went out in submission to a new publisher, so I went out and commissioned a new publisher with this book. So it feels like, you know, it's exciting, a little bit of a kind of I'm gonna say, relaunch, but you know, it's a little bit of a genre change slightly as well. So it feels good. Yeah, feels like. I feel like, yeah, this is what I do now. What's?

Speaker 2: 46:02

it like Because you know, when you I don't know I can't get my questions out today, but you know you said you've gone out on submission with a new author. But what is that like? When you, I said it's like you're starting again After you've written four books and then you know you're sending your agents like OK, we're sending it out to editors and we're waiting to see if anyone's gonna buy it yeah, well, it was.

Speaker 1: 46:28

It was. It was scary. I mean, to be honest, at the time when it went out on submission, I was going through quite a lot of small, but basically I was. I had breast cancer last year, so I I was going through. So when my book went out on submission, I was having chemotherapy, so in a war. It was kind of a good distraction Because, yeah, I didn't really care that much because I just felt so shit from the chemo, yeah, but it was just like so I'd already, I'd written the book and everything before I started the treatment.

Speaker 1: 47:00

But yeah, by the time it went out, I was going through that. So, to be honest, I didn't think about it that much because I'd had so much else going on. It's like, whatever happens happens. Of course you're glad. Yeah, I couldn't really give it that much. It didn't seem that important, which was great. Not great for a great reason, but in a way it was good because I really wasn't stressing about it, because I was just like, okay, well, that's going on. And it was nice when I did get some good news because it was like a description and like something good that wasn't to do with, you know, cancer treatment. Yeah, but yeah. So in a way it kind of put it into perspective.

Speaker 2: 47:41

It's interesting. You know everyone's different response to being out there again and waiting to hear whether it's going to be a yes or a no, but because you know you'd rather it was something else to distract you Other than that's cancer, but in a sense you had that going on. So it's like whatever happens happens. If it's good, it's good, if it's not, then we'll just move on to the next one yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean yeah definitely puts a lot of things in perspective you know, I mean I'm, I'm fine now.

Speaker 1: 48:19

Hopefully I'm well at the end of that chapter. You know touch wood, so. But yeah, that was basically last year. It was mostly just my head was all taken out of that. I was diagnosed at the beginning of the year and I finished my treatment until September last year. So the whole year was about that really and and about writing. I mean, I wrote the book when after mostly after I had my diagnosis actually. So again, I think it was a distraction and a kind of yeah, I don't know kind of like a not therapy exactly, but I have written through, you know, quite a lot of traumatic things. I've still managed to keep writing. So I think it's a yeah, I do think I can use it as a kind of distraction.

Speaker 2: 49:08

So A Good Place to Hide a Body out in July. So if you could tell the conversation listeners what is A Good Place to Hide a Body, which is a great title.

Speaker 1: 49:19

I love it. It is about a woman of my age, so she's 50, and she's got elderly parents who are starting to kind of rely on her for more things you know, like falling over and taking their pills. There's a lot of people we recognise, you know, people of our age, and she's also got a teenage son who's got a few issues.

Speaker 1: 49:47

And she gets a phone call from her parents late one night, she's thinking oh god, what is it now? You know they've fallen over or blah, blah, blah. But what has actually happened is they have killed our tenant. So they've taken in a tenant to help pay the bills, kind of thing into their base. They've got like a basement annex, so have this tenant in there and he's turned into a complete nightmare. He's like dealing drugs in their house. He won't, he's not paying the rent, he won't leave and yeah. So her parents kill them, kill him, sorry. And then she has to try and help them cover it up. The first half of the book kind of leads back to the event and then the second half is about whether they're going to get away with it. And you kind of want them to get away with it because he's awful and they're great. So it's kind of it's got a bit of dark humor in it, which is the sort of slight genre it's still a little in the vein of my others, but it's a little bit funny, yeah.

Speaker 2: 50:38

I wish the listeners could have seen my face when you said her only parents have killed the blood, killed the killed someone, and I was like my mouth was open, like what? That was not what I was expecting to hear, but you want those moments. You want those moments when you're reading. Whatever you're telling about the book is like oh my god, it's like age of 50, that's what we're aiming for like yeah, yeah, all right. So, laura, I have some questions for you. Are you an introvert or extrovert, or a hybrid of the two?

Speaker 1: 51:12

I think I'm like a really extreme hybrid of the two. Like I'm like I love going, you know, to festivals and meet people and going out and doing stuff. I love having parties here at my house and hosting people and stuff. I really, really love all that. I also really really need time by myself.

Speaker 1: 51:32

If I haven't had enough time by myself, I get a little bit like during the pandemic, my kids were here all the time, so me and them for six months, the day they went back to school, and then we went down to lockdown in like the march, didn't we? And they were back at home every day until september and I'll find they finally went back to school and that's, oh my god, why you can't have hostage. They were annoying Because actually they were fine and they're not little little they, you know, and we got on well and it was actually fine, but it was just I just needed to be by myself. I was like, oh God, so I do really really need that as well. So, yeah, I'd say definitely a quite extreme hybrid of the two.

Speaker 2: 52:19

I remember a friend of mine they remain nameless. They thought he suddenly turned up at my house. You know he had to stand outside the gate because he couldn't come in, because it was early days of lockdown. I'm like, why are you here? And he was like, oh no, I just fancied, just like, just come out to do my. You know, I call it. My government authorized war. And I was like no, it's not. It's because your wife's home and he just wasn't used to having at home all the time when she went to work and he worked, he was working from home and he just wasn't used to having at home. It's not like you literally run out the house to escape you're not used to having her there yeah, you know I love

Speaker 1: 53:00

sorry, go on no, I'm just gonna say I love the fact that I work at home by myself like my son is really super sociable and he's like god I could never work from home. I actually love it, love not having to go into an office and or with people and I'm very, very happy just talking about by myself at home. But then I say I do enjoy socializing and stuff when it's when I like being at home.

Speaker 2: 53:26

Yeah, I like being at home, but then I get cabin fever. It might be it might take a couple of months, but I'll then at some point I'll get cabin fever. I'm like I need to go somewhere. Also, I might end up teaching. I'm gonna go teach a course for three days just so I can get out. Well, I was going to ask. You know you mentioned, you know, going out to festivals. No one prepares you for the fact that at some point you may have to be on a panel talking about your book appearing at all these festivals. Were you at all did anything in your previous life you know doing organising conferences and things? Did that prepare you in any point in any way for being a panelist of the state?

Speaker 1: 54:05

no, not really. I mean, I used to have to get up at the beginning and say, oh hi, I know I'm Laura, welcome to conference and you know what it's about, blah, blah, blah. But that was literally you know two minutes, and then get down again. So, no, not really. No, I was quite nervous first time I did it, but I didn't drop it now. Actually, I quite like it now.

Speaker 2: 54:26

Okay, so what challenge or experience in your life shaped you the most?

Speaker 1: 54:33

I don't know, probably luckily, though, sorry. More depressing news I lost my husband five years ago cancer. So, to be honest, in recent years, probably that. But just because I think it not made me resilient but showing me that I actually am really resilient and and also, like with my own cancer diagnosis kind of it does put stuff into perspective. So I don't get. I think I don't get really really hung up about the good stuff because you know, it's not the most important thing. There's bigger things in life. Yeah, yeah. So I think it has given me a very much kind of, you know, enjoy each day, because that's literally all you've got. All you've got is this day, this moment. Yes, it's nice to look forward to things or look back on things, but really you've got to, you know, live in the moment.

Speaker 2: 55:42

No, I agree. I think that my family and friends, whenever my brother gone after me, there's only this I say a year, he'll. He'll say it's not a year, it's like 11 months and 28, whether it's any number of days between us. So we're always the same age for two days, but whenever it's his birthday, oh my god, I can't believe I'm this age. Oh my god, I can't believe it. And I'm always like enjoy the fact that you've made it here.

Speaker 1: 56:08

Yeah, because the alternative is being dead.

Speaker 2: 56:11

Basically every year it's the same, I'm like, and I'm also. You're moaning about the age that I'm currently at for just two more days so yeah, yeah, I know I'm, I'm big on that.

Speaker 1: 56:23

Like if people moan about getting older, it's like it's a privilege to get older and I, you know, I really feel like I really know that. You know, having lost my husband, I've also lost a really good friend when she was like 47, and I just think, don't moan about getting older. You know, obviously things can get harder as you get older. You know more aches and pains and things, but you know good to be alive.

Speaker 2: 56:49

I said this on another podcast episode. I was talking to my friend, I think we got out for my birthday and it was just ridiculous. Like if it had been 10 years ago, the next question would have been oh, where are we going next? But we were talking about, okay, you need to take this vitamins for your knees, it's really, really good for your joints. It should have been where we're going next. But no, you need to take glucosamine. Yeah, but it helps with your joints. So I think, laura, if you could go back to when you're 25 years old and give yourself one piece of advice, what would it be?

Speaker 1: 57:27

I think I'd like to be able to say to have more confidence and have more confidence in myself, because I really don't think I did. And, like I said earlier, I think I was really shy when I was younger and I was like scared of talking to people you know, people I didn't know, yeah. So I think I'd really like to say have more, but that wouldn't have really helped with it, because you can't tell somebody to have more confidence. That doesn't help, does it someone just be more confident.

Speaker 1: 57:55

Oh, go ahead, please. That's what I had to do, you know. So, in a way, that's not really advice. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, just go for what you actually want, a bit more maybe, which I did do eventually, but that took me a long time.

Speaker 2: 58:12

Yeah, it's like you say you can't teach people to be confident. It's like any advice you hear it will be some variation of act as if and fake it until you make it. Yeah, that's, that's all. That's all you'll get, but there's no tried and tested method for appearing more confident no, I think it's just getting older.

Speaker 1: 58:31

Getting older is mainly what's done it for me, I think, and you know different experiences I think I've said I think experience.

Speaker 2: 58:39

Experience is what teaches you above anything else. Yeah, yeah. So finally, laura Marshall, author of A Good Play for a Harder Body. Where can listeners of the conversation podcast find you online?

Speaker 1: 58:54

they can find me on my author facebook page, which is Laura Marshall author. I'm also Laura Marshall author on Instagram although I'm not very good at posting on there and Twitter, but they're really terrible. Author handle, laura JM8, which was like a Twitter account I set up years before, before I was a writer, and just used a sort of silly I don't know even what it was. That was like the name of just a kind of handle that I used online. I should have changed it. I just didn't. Didn't know I was going to be an author until I already was one, and then it's too late before we go like.

Speaker 2: 59:30

I'll ask you did you, did you find the transition from becoming a private person to effectively becoming public? Did you find that hard? You know talking about author hand like, yeah, twitter handles and like my instagram handle is not my name and I just can't be bothered to change it. It's queen mad because it wasn't for it, wasn't for the public.

Speaker 1: 59:50

No, when I originally signed up, no, when I signed up for twitter, I didn't know. I just it's like years before I, before I like 2009 or something, not that I really used twitter. So, yeah, I wish I, I wish I'd just changed it straight away when I was, when I, you know, my book was published, but I feel like it's too late now. But, yeah, and I don't really feel like a public person. I'm not, I'm not. I don't feel like I'm someone that anyone would know who I am or anything.

Speaker 2: 1:00:21

Hey, it's a nice way to be. Anyway, I don't think I mean I'm on. I say I'm on there, but I said, if you look, if you look at it very carefully, like my Instagram stuff, I don't really you don't know what I'm having for breakfast. You don't know. I'm like in this darkest thoughts sir you know, no, no, I don't.

Speaker 1: 1:00:37

I definitely don't like to feel too much personal stuff on that. Well, actually I say that I have written loads of personal articles. I've written like blog pieces and done some like newspaper articles and things about my husband dying and about my. I wrote one about my cancer diagnosis as well the papers actually I've spilled quite a lot of personal stuff online. Thinking about it, that's nice because you get really nice feedback from people and, if they've been through similar things, that you kind of feel like you've done a little bit a good thing while vocalizing something that other people can sort of relate to, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:01:13

I'm gonna. I'm gonna let you go, if I just have like more questions. Do you ever read your reviews? Because I know some people read that they purposely seek out the one and two star reviews, which I will just never do, because that just mortified me.

Speaker 1: 1:01:28

I do read, though I don't read them like obsessively, but I just don't really care about the is that the? Bad ones or the good ones, particularly like. It just doesn't really like. Some people get really, you know, kind of stressed out, but don't they? I think maybe that's part of my like life's too short thing. It's just like well, not everyone's going to like my book. You know I don't like every book and that's fine.

Speaker 1: 1:01:51

Like you know, it's just not possible for everyone to like my book. The people won't, and that's okay. I don't mind, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:02:00

I think that's, I think that's the best way to be, laura. So, laura, on that note, what I am going to say is thank you so much, laura Marshall, for being part of the conversation.

Speaker 1: 1:02:10

Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2: 1:02:12

Thank you for joining me for this week's episode of the Conversation with Nadine Matheson podcast. I really hope that you enjoyed it. I'll be back next week with a new guest, so make sure that you subscribe and you'll never miss the next episode. And also don't forget to like, share and leave a review. It really means a lot and it also helps the podcast. And you can also support the podcast on Patreon, where every new member will receive exclusive merchandise. Just head down to the show notes and click on the link, and if you'd like to be a guest on a future episode of the Conversation, all you have to do is email theconversation at nadinemaffersoncom. Thank you and I'll see you next week.