The Heart of Money

Building a Kingdom-Centered Marriage: An interview with Nia Davenport

• Courtney Markley • Season 2 • Episode 33

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Join me and Nia Davenport as we discuss how to create a kingdom-centered marriage. Nia and her husband, John, have been called into a life of outrageous generosity. They support Christian organizations all over the world. But, as Nia says, none of their ministry work would have been possible if she first hadn't learned God's design for money and marriage.

Early in her marriage, Nia began to realize that couples who were on the same page with money tended to thrive. She began seeking God's will and what he revealed to her was life-changing.

In our conversation, Nia shares her inspiring story of trusting God beyond finances, highlighting the incredible journey of surrendering to God's provision.

Learn how small acts of consideration and a focus on God's will can foster a loving, respectful marriage. Whether you're navigating different personality types or seeking to grow in faith together, this episode offers encouragement and practical steps for cultivating a marriage centered on God.


P.S. Nia and John's testimony was recently captured in Gospel Patron's upcoming film, "The Supply Line." The film debuts this fall, and we highly recommend it. Be sure to follow @GospelPatons to see more announcements! 

Speaker 1:

I'm Courtney Markley, and this is the Heart of Money. Talking about money can be really hard and uncomfortable, but it doesn't need to be. The problem is we're taught to think about money in terms that are too much like science, with rules and regulations, and not enough like psychology, with emotions and nuance. Join me on my mission to change the way we talk about money, one conversation at a time. Welcome everyone to the Heart of Money podcast. I'm your host, courtney Markley, and joining me today I have Naya Davenport. Welcome, naya.

Speaker 2:

Thank you, good to be here.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's such a pleasure to have you and I want to give the audience real quick, just a little snippet, a picture preview into your life, real quick, before you just drop a ton of wisdom and knowledge onto us today. So Naya and her husband, john are also friends of Gospel Patrons. If you guys have been following us long enough, you know that we are big, big friends of Gospel Patrons and the work that they're doing to encourage more business leaders to be active participants in the Great Commission and building God's kingdom. And not too long ago gospel patrons featured Naya and her husband John in a new film called the Supply Line. Now the film has not been released yet. It comes out in this fall. I've gotten to watch it a few times now. It's just a little sneak peek and I can tell you I've cried every single time. It's just beautiful to see Nian John's testimony.

Speaker 1:

We're not going to get too deep into the full film and all the details because I want you guys to go watch it when it debuts in the fall. So be sure you're following Gospel Patrons. But for today we're going to lean into Naya and hear a little bit more about her story. And just moments before we started recording. We were just sharing about how people can see the culmination of someone's testimony and we see you know 20 plus years of all these things that God has done and we start to compare that to maybe where we're at right now and say you know what? That could never be me, I could never get there. You know, they have all these awesome things going for them and that's just not where I'm at right now. And what we got to view and witness in Nigh and John's story is how, first of all, god aligned their hearts together as a married couple for His bigger picture, for their marriage and their money, and then he started just giving them small invitations to participate with Him and over the course of time now I mean, they've given away millions of dollars into the building of the kingdom and that's like not doing their story any justice at all. Again, you'll have to watch the film, but that just gives you a little sneak peek of what's going on. But before any of those good things could happen, they had to do some heart work, right, they had to do some work on their marriage and aligning their hearts together with God and talking more about money together, and aligning their hearts together with God's and talking more about money together, and I'm hearing more and more couples who are saying we want to be a part of what God is doing and building the kingdom together, but maybe we just don't see eye to eye on our money. So, naya, we're inviting you in now to speak into this for us.

Speaker 1:

So, again, I just gave quite the lead up. This is probably the most I've ever talked in an introduction ever but I wanted to paint the picture for our audiences who are joining us here at the table of who's with us today. It's such an honor to have you here, thank you. So take us back, if you don't mind. Take us back all those years ago and tell us a bit about what life was like, as you're early married and you're doing the normal married thing of trying to figure out okay, how do we start to work together with our money. And just tell us a bit about what that time was like for you.

Speaker 2:

When we first got married, we didn't have disposable income, so a lot of times people think if you don't have excess, then you're not going to have the challenges of what to agree on and what to not agree on. You agree on yes, we want the lights to stay on, so we're going to pay the electric bill. Yes, we want the water, so we're going to pay the water bill. So what we had early on on paper was correct. We were budgeting, we were living within our means, we were saving a little bit, we were tithing and we were investing through the 401ks that we had at our respective jobs. But as the money did become a little bit more extra there was a little bit more margin we began to have some minor differences. These didn't look like major blowouts at first.

Speaker 2:

What happened was a sense of very subtle I want, what I want. And when you align yourself with the kingdom of self, that can open you up to a lot of things that end with self or start with self, and they don't end with us and they don't end with unity. And so that's a battle that can begin very subtly with just wanting what you want, keeping that desire between you yourself and you, and figuring out ways to satisfy it outside of seeking the Lord and outside of transparency with your spouse. And so I'm saying you, I really mean me, because that was what I became aware of. I became aware of a very subtle sense of not just I had some wants, but like feeling driven to serve those wants.

Speaker 1:

Very good, and if you could give us a more detailed example, what would this look like in a very day to day, practical way, because I know that this is going to relate to so many of our listeners?

Speaker 2:

I think because I want to make myself look good. I'm going to share a little bit about what happened the other day. That was such a beautiful testimony of the transforming power of God. I went to a store locally. It's a boutique. So anyone who lives in my area I'm not going to say my exact city, but if I say the name of this store, anyone who's from here knows what it is. It's called Gaia and it is a women's clothing boutique. And you don't go there on a budget. I just, you just don't. But I did because I saw a sign in the window that said they were having a linen sale and I actually had a store credit from something I had bought a year prior and I thought I would just take advantage of that, take the store credit. So I wasn't planning to spend any cash. So I went to Gaia and I found a lovely pair of linen pants. It's almost a hundred degrees here, so linen is necessary and I got the pants and I brought them home in the bag and I put the bag on my bed.

Speaker 2:

Anybody who struggles with financial infidelity right now is probably smacking their forehead because they're like no, you hide it, you put the clothes in your closet like they've always been there. You recycle the bag, you crumple up the receipt and I think about the fact that that's what I would have done before, because it was mine, and I wasn't really thinking about the fact that my husband may have some opinion about it. And that's another piece is because sometimes, when we're thinking so much about ourselves and what we want, we automatically vilify our spouse. We think there's no way they're going to understand, there's no way that they're going to accept this.

Speaker 2:

I know that they would rather spend this on blank, but what I learned is that he's actually for me as much as I'm for him. There are certain things that he likes to spend money on, and we agree on those things because we agree that we both have a common goal, we have common objectives and we serve the common good. And so that was a hard journey because it wasn't the case in the beginning. I was taught that you look out for yourself with your finances. When you get married, you still look out for yourself with your finances. We had joint bank accounts. We prayed over the money, but there was still this sense of something that wasn't completely surrendered to God.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's so good. You touched on so many really great things that we could sink into a bit, so thank you for just jumping us right in. Yeah, so I love, first of all, that you were able to recognize some of the healing work that you have done and that the Lord has done in you, to say, hey, I went shopping and I didn't even think to hide it, right. Or I didn't even think to, oh, maybe my spouse shouldn't be seeing this, maybe they shouldn't know about it, right. Or I didn't even think to, oh, maybe my spouse shouldn't be seeing this, maybe they shouldn't know about it, which is so true for so many people today. Unfortunately, even whether we recognize it or not, I sometimes catch my friends joking like all right, I pray to God today that the Amazon delivery driver would show up before my spouse got home.

Speaker 1:

I need that delivery driver to show up before my spouse gets home so I don't get in trouble, right, like that's kind of the attitude or like so I you know, I don't tick them off, that's kind of the attitude, so yeah, so we're touching on this subject of financial infidelity or intentionally hiding purchases or intentionally hiding what we're doing with money from our spouse, and there could be a lot of reasons why that's going on, right.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

But it sounds like in your particular story, something that you noticed was again this serving of self. Right, I look out for me, I look out for number one, and I imagine that that came from something that was taught to you, right? As you said, like this was taught potentially, I'm curious if you could lean into that piece a little bit more because, as you said, like this was taught potentially, I'm curious if you could lean into that piece a little bit more because, as a financial counselor, I have noticed that a lot of times when we conflict with our spouse about money, it's oftentimes conflicting money scripts or these unconscious beliefs that we carry about money, such as, just like you said, like you look out for you first, whether you're single or you're married. So, yeah, tell me a bit more about where would you say that came from if you had to pinpoint it.

Speaker 2:

Definitely business school. They taught us everything was designed to make sure that you set and reach your goals, and if that meant that you were the only one looking out for those goals, then you make sure that you hold on to them, however you needed to, and so it was part of my educational process and it was also something that was modeled for me. I definitely saw as a child, and I overheard you know, our children are listening I overheard people joking about things. I overheard women talking. I overheard men talking. I overheard the kinds of things that they said, and the way that they said it jokingly made me think oh, it's funny, which means it's light, which means it's okay. So that's probably, as far as culturally, where the exposure came from.

Speaker 2:

Now, if we look a little deeper, there was a bit of a sense of fear that would drive that, and that's a fear that it's not just I'm going to look out for myself. There's a fear that if I don't look out for myself, I'm going to be failed or I'm going to be rejected or I am going to be disappointed, and so those kinds of fears could run in my background because, say something that I value. Generally, when I'm spending something, it's because there's some kind of a something I value that I place financial value on, and so I am drawn to spend the money on that when your money is. Your heart also is I value looking nice and not having hot flashes during the summer.

Speaker 1:

And all the women said amen Right.

Speaker 2:

And so it's not just a sense of well, that's important to me and so I'm going to spend money on it and you can't stop me. It's more along the lines of of I'm not secure, that I trust that if I am vulnerable about something that I value, that maybe you don't, I'm not secure enough in our relationship that you're going to honor it, that you're not going to either mock it or reject it or kind of one up it Like well, I have a higher value that that money needed to be spent on. There is a fear because, you know, those kinds of things happen especially early in marriage, when we're in the becoming process of becoming one flesh. But when we become intentional and we become transparent and we become vulnerable which is the work of God we're able to verbalize those things. Honey, I'll be very honest. I know that the 5 am flight is going to save us $300 to get to this event. We're going to, but I value my health and if I have to get up at 2 am, that means I'm not going to sleep that night, which means I may make it through the next day on adrenaline, and then I'm going to spend the next week paying for that.

Speaker 2:

And, by the way, this is the unspoken part of that is, and so are you. But that takes vulnerability, because the easy thing is for me to be like okay, and then be seething, or for him to say, well, we're just not going to spend that money, which to me says, well, he doesn't value my health. Well, he didn't know, that was my value. He was just thinking about the checkbook, right? Or he might be thinking I was going to save that money for something else that was going to be a blessing to the family. You just you never know, right. So it's easier when we can get to a point where we are willing and able to be vulnerable and that is a journey, that's not just a you should. Oh, okay, I'm going to do it. That's a journey.

Speaker 1:

And, boy, I had a deep one. I would love to hear more about it and, listeners, you should also know that Nahe is a certified life coach and a financial advisor, so she is right in her sweet spot right now. Like telling us more about that. She's lived it out. So, yes, tell us more. You mentioned in the film that you had to do a lot of deep work, and I agree. It is deep work because, truly, you're uprooting some things that exist within us, right, and giving it over to God. Yeah, so tell me more. First, do you remember any sort of kind of triggering event? Or did it get to a point where you're saying, okay, yeah, this exists and I need to do some work to reconcile this?

Speaker 2:

Oh, definitely. And it was interesting because I wasn't looking for a change For me. I was looking for a change for the people that were coming to me as clients because they were struggling and I could see, and I could sense and I could discern that there were some deeper things than just agree on a budget, agree on the investments, agree on how much you're going to give. There were some deeper things going on and so, as I began to pray and surrender myself to God as his instrument, because it was clear this is the path that he was leading me down, he was like let's start at home, and I was thinking, okay, that leading me down. He was like let's start at home and I was thinking, okay, that'll be easy. Again, like I said, checklist, budget giving, tithing, saving all, check, check, check, check. Even as our income increased, we were still being faithful to those things. But what God showed me was that there were some heart issues that were blocking me from being a completely trustworthy vessel of His resources, and I was surprised by that. But as he led me through the Bible and showed me what His standards were, that opened my eyes and I also realized that I won't make too much of a broad brushed statement here, but I have observed that a lot of times the people that God calls to speak to a particular stronghold or struggle in the body of Christ are oftentimes the people who were struggling with it way more than anybody else.

Speaker 2:

It's almost like Harvard only accepts straight F students. I mean, he's going to pick the person who. You can't shock me. They may tell me something, that's a grander scale of a particular struggle, but there's nothing that they're going to tell me.

Speaker 2:

And particularly the males who have come, you know, through my door, they've been very refreshed by that because they come in like, oh, you know, was she going to judge me? And then maybe I have them listen to a little piece of my testimony beforehand and they're like well, I wasn't as bad as you, so you know. So I didn't want it fun for me, but I'm so glad that my struggles can be a help for people but also can provide a sense of we can relate. I don't want to talk to them like I mean, if I'm helping you, we're client, you know it's not, we're not friends, but I love you, I'm praying for you. But at the same time there's a sense of they can feel safer and they feel like they can be more understood and transparent with someone they know has walked the journey, understands what it can be like and also believes wholeheartedly in transformation and victory.

Speaker 1:

Oh, that's so good, that's so good, okay. So yeah, let's keep going. So you were recognizing, just within your own clients, this tension, to which God put the mirror up and said okay, girl, like you first, which I completely agree. I always make the joke with my clients that God put me in this position because he knows I need to hear this every day.

Speaker 2:

Well said.

Speaker 1:

Yes, you need to hear this every day, you need to talk about it constantly, otherwise it's going to eat up your heart. So, yes, I can completely relate to that, and so tell us a bit more. So God's holding up the mirror. You're recognizing these things exist within your own heart, and then? What Then? What do you do with it?

Speaker 2:

Well, now there was a I guess the prequel is I am head over heels for God. So he had my heart and I trusted him that if he said something wasn't good for me, we need to go there. I want to know what he has to say about that. And so in that relationship, when he pointed something out that broke his heart, it broke mine too, and so he was leading me through. And this is a majority of this was in one morning. That was a long morning. I was in the prayer closet.

Speaker 2:

As I look back, I kind of wonder what was going on with the children, because they were all little. I don't know if the Lord made them sleep in or what happened, but when I got through this entire list and it was tearful because I didn't know I was doing those things I knew I was doing those things, I didn't have something to hold it up against. That said this is hurting the one you love the most and the one who loves you the most. And so I went through those things and I repented I don't want this anymore. Remove it, lord. I want this. I want what your word says.

Speaker 2:

I can't do it, but I couldn't see these things either. So clearly anything is possible, and so I trust you to make these transformations in my heart and my life. And then, after I got through all of that and I just knew that he had cleansed me and purified me in that moment, he said now I want you to go tell your husband about these things. Oh, okay. So I ran to my husband because you know, sometimes when the Lord tells you to do something, you do run to do it before you change your mind before your emotions get a chance to start talking yeah, like I got to do it now or logic before your logic starts talking.

Speaker 2:

And so I told my husband and of course he was stunned, but then he was very loving and very graceful and he accepted my apology. I told him things were going to be different and he gave me this space to grow. And it was a growth process, because brain pathways are a real thing and there were ways that I was used to relating to money and possessions and financial decisions that now had to do a 180 degree turn. And so I was praying a lot and I was pausing a lot and I was recognizing a lot that this was going to be an amazing result when God finished the journey and the journey took a couple of years, because what I discovered was that learning to trust God with money meant learning to trust God wholeheartedly.

Speaker 2:

And I had some reasons not to, because I had some things that had happened to me in life where I don't know where God was. He could have stopped those things and we had to work through that. I had journaling, I had quiet time, I had prayer. I even had Christian counseling. I did what I needed to do in order to draw near to God, so that I could trust Him to do the things and walk the walk that he was asking me to.

Speaker 2:

And the interesting thing is, because he's so loving and he is so intentional about us living a fruitful, victorious, abundant life, he doesn't tire of us.

Speaker 2:

The fact that it took me that long, not only was that just fine with him, he knew it before he created me. He knew that it was going to be a journey and he knew that in every part of that journey, every layer of the onion that he was going to peel and reveal and heal, that there was a purpose and that that purpose interestingly, purpose is the definition of my name. But that purpose was going to be way beyond just me being a sweeter wife. It was going to be something that was going to impact at least our generation. I didn't know how much it was going to impact people outside of just our family and outside of my clients. I didn't know. But the only reason I know now is because of visions that he's given me. But I had no idea that that simple act of repentance and obedience and self-reflection and renewal was going to be something that would completely change the trajectory of our finances.

Speaker 1:

That's incredible. One thing that I wrote down when I was watching the film and I can't remember if it's something that you said or just something that the Lord kind of impressed in my heart. So forgive me if I'm not giving the right person credit, but it didn't come from me but it essentially said you had to do the heart work before you could do the mission work. Right, yes, and it sounds like it took a few years, which to me it's all relative right. Some people it takes an entire lifetime. So for some we're like, oh, which is okay. Yeah, again, which is okay. The point is that you're doing it right and you're engaging with God in this way because he wants us to go to Him Right.

Speaker 1:

But it's just beautiful to hear you articulate how engaging in money conversations does bring up the harder things, because the money is normally just the surface level issue. That's really easy to point at, right, right, just the surface level thing. But it's a clear pain point that a lot of people have and it's easy to poke at it, but very few people do the deeper work to say, okay, what's actually going on, what's underneath it? And it sounds like for you, at the root of it, at least partially? Was this lack of trust? Yes, so by leaning in you got healing, not only for the finances, but so much more, so much more. Oh, yes, yes.

Speaker 2:

And I feel like it's so foundational. I don't even say you need to trust God. I say you get to trust God Like. You get to trust God Like fill in. You get to trust blank. You put anything else in that blank.

Speaker 2:

There's not a hundred percent guarantee. You put God in that blank. Not 100% guarantee. You put God in that blank. There is a 100% guarantee that His kingdom come, his will be done, his ways are perfect, that he is for you, that he is warring on your behalf, that he knows you intimately and he has a plan.

Speaker 2:

He has a plan and a purpose for whatever it is that you're going through every millisecond of your life and to know that the God that we're trusting is perfectly good. Everything about him is good, everything about him is pure, Everything about him is done in love. Absolutely everything that he does is in alignment with his promises. When we get a true, deep knowledge of that which comes from spending time with Him, spending time in the Word and spending time in Christian counseling because the world is a hard place you are going to need somebody to help you process through. And we have blind spots and we have attributes that we put onto God that are not actually Him and we have to sometimes take some time and let somebody hold our hand as those splinters are pulled out, so that those wounds can be clean and heal.

Speaker 1:

Amen, amen. We can't do it on our own, can we? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can't do it on our own, and I love how you shared that First that you ran to tell John all your lists of things. I can just like almost envision that you ran to tell John. You say he was surprised by the list. Yeah, was it a surprise of like, oh I'm surprised that you're admitting this. Or was it a oh I'm surprised? I had no idea that this was going on? Both, both yeah, both yeah, oh, wow, very good.

Speaker 2:

Because these were hard issues. He didn't know what was going on. Because there's the financial infidelity. It masks that, because you don't want it to be seen, you don't want it to be exposed, and that's another thing that is a common fear that can stand in the way of us being in unity with our spouses is the fear of being exposed. Well, guess what? I put the shopping bag from Gaia on the bed so he was going to see it as soon as he came in. I was exposing myself, and that's not the topic of this particular podcast. But there are other areas of marriage where we have to be willing to expose ourselves in order for there to be true intimacy. We have to be willing to expose ourselves with God. He knows it anyway, but we have to be willing to say yes, what you said about what you're seeing is true, lord, and I need you to make it beautiful, and He'll do that.

Speaker 1:

Oh, so good. So it sounds like John responded again graciously, he did, and he gave you room, right. Because again, it's not like you're going to change instantly. It takes time. Again, like you're going to change instantly, it takes time. Again, like you said, we are human beings. We can't just like flip a switch Right. I'm curious if you could again give us a very like practical. What did those money conversations then look like? As you are learning and as you're growing and you're figuring this piece out Just practically, what did that look like?

Speaker 2:

if you can think way back when, well, we had conversations where we were deciding on how money was going to be spent not just discretionary money, but like how much do we really want to allocate when we were getting ready to buy a house, or how much do we want to allocate to something related to one of our children and coming into agreement with those things Because, recognizing that if there was some disagreement, if there was some misalignment, first of all if it was tense, there was a spiritual warfare component that was immediately brought in. We would immediately, in the name of Jesus, we command the enemy to go. That takes away the static screen, that makes it where you can't hear each other, like you have a bad connection, okay, well, we've got to get a good connection, so we've got to remove the interference, and so that's, you know, we've got to find the five bars so we can four bars, so we can connect and of course there were no bars back then but anyway I was like a landline but anyway.

Speaker 2:

So we had to get to the point where we could clearly hear each other and we're not hearing an extra narrative brought in by another kingdom. But we didn't exactly see eye to eye. Because of the purity of wanting to stay in alignment with God, I want my husband to be blessed. He wants me to be blessed. I maybe wanted the children to have a brand new pair of shoes for the first day of school. Well, if their shoes aren't worn out over the summer, why do you want them to have a brand new pair? Because it's important to me as a mom. It makes me feel very good and very proud to send my children to school on the first day of school with clothes and shoes that represent a new beginning.

Speaker 1:

Oh, I mean, I wasn't necessarily able to articulate it the way I did just now. I want you to write all of my. I'm just gonna send you my financial goals and then you can like type some stuff next to it.

Speaker 2:

Okay, but when you go through life coach training, you get deep about everything. Yes, but at the time he could see this is meaningful to her and she doesn't dig her heels in about everything. So I think this is something that we could probably come into agreement on, you know that's really good.

Speaker 2:

And in the past, you know, maybe again a journey. Maybe I might've painted it more along the lines of well, it's for their foot health. Well, that's true too. But the point is he could see that this is something that honored me, and even before I got to the point where I could articulate why it honored me, he wanted to honor me, and so our conversations. It was possible for us to come to an agreement. Now I will tell you we're both.

Speaker 1:

If any of you are familiar any of your listeners are familiar with the DISC personality type Sure.

Speaker 2:

My husband and I are both high Ds. Okay, I was going to guess. Yeah, so I'm a high ID and he's a high DI. The translation for that is neither one of us. Is you're not going to put one over on us, right?

Speaker 1:

right right.

Speaker 2:

We're both very fairly strong personality types. Yes and again. So if we could have peaceful, fruitful communications about money, anybody can. Anybody who is willing to yield to the Holy Spirit can.

Speaker 1:

That's so good. So I want to highlight a few things that I'm picking up on again and just reiterate it for our audience. A few things first and foremost again is are you and your spouse are you both going to God first, right? Are you both willing and hungry to just succumb to His will? Right, first? And then, are you willing to put your spouse's needs ahead of your own and being able to honor them and value them and maybe say you know, I might not get it, I might not get the whole like new shoes thing, but it's important to you so I'm going to honor it anyways, right, because I love you. So these are just a few things that I'm picking up on is, first and foremost, just making God center of everything and then, coming from a place where we want to just love and honor your spouse and keep yourself third in line, right, keep yourself third.

Speaker 1:

These are just some of the things that I'm picking up on as you're sharing, which is so good because you're right, Anyone can do this. Anyone can do this work. It doesn't matter what your personality type is. Yes, my husband and I are the exact opposite of you and your husband. I feel like you have to like, force us to say anything at all. We're both like the turtle. Okay, we're the turtle.

Speaker 1:

You know, when we talk, cause we're like I don't want to take anyone off, right, I'm the turtle. Now, when I'm talking to other people's spouses, I'm a great challenger and I can just say what I want to say. But for whatever reason, in front of my husband I'm like all right, we're turtling right now, and so the same thing, right, when we can come to a place where we are able again, it's that exposure piece, right, it's kind of that afraid to be seen. It's easier to remain hidden. You know, again, maybe I do communicate my value to you and you don't get it, and then I feel hurt or I feel let down, and you know I have to be the one to take care of my needs because no one else is going to do it. Right, like, all of these thoughts start to spiral. So if John and I can do it, if Courtney and Adam can do it, anyone can do it. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what your personalities are. You can do this work. Yeah, you can do this work.

Speaker 2:

That's right and you know that. Something you said also you mentioned about putting ourselves third. The reason we're able to do that is not because we're just nice people and we're just godly people, it's because we know that God is going to meet our needs. He's not only going to meet our needs, the collective husband and wife, our marriage, our family he's going to meet my needs and so if there's a need that I surrender, in deference to my husband, something that he needs or he wants, I can do that freely, knowing that, a because of where we are, he cares. I don't have to pout about it, be pouting for a week. I mean I might pout a little bit. I have no feelings, you know. But I also have a confidence that came out of that two-year journey that God sees me, he sees and knows what I need and he has a way to meet that need. And the way that he is going to meet that need if I believe that he is who he says he is the way that he's going to meet that need is going to be exceedingly abundantly above what I thought I needed, and so that may look like him really zeroing in on what the deeper desire is and then meeting that.

Speaker 2:

So maybe the deeper desire can go back to the example of traveling. Maybe the deeper desire is not just well, I just want to sleep in, I don't want to get up and go that early. Maybe the deeper desire really is I want to feel my best so that I can feel like I am living the life that God has for me in the days after whatever this event is, and so what God may do is give me supernatural energy. What God may do is give me a time of rest that I wasn't expecting, that allows me to recharge. But God is aware of what the deeper need is, and when we walk in trust and intimacy with Him, he can go in those deep places, even without telling us, and just meet those needs. And so it's like living at a place where I can surrender my needs because I know that he's going to meet them, and we've grown as a couple where there are times where he's surrendering His needs, or there are times where we're both surrendering our needs or our wants for a greater good.

Speaker 2:

So there are some things that we have either tabled, deferred or may not ever happen, because there was a kingdom need that came to us and the Lord said you meet that need now. I will meet your needs at the time that you have them and we trust him. We get to trust him Like, oh, oh really. Like I mean, it doesn't always feel like oh really at the moment. It's like, okay, sure, you know, I believe you, I believe you. But sometimes we have the opportunity to see what he does and he makes that connection for us. He opens our eyes and goes remember, oh really, oh, my goodness. It's like a kid who gets the bike with the ribbons on the handlebars when they thought they were just going to get a rusty old something that pedaled, which is really all they thought they wanted. Because they waited and because they trusted that their father was going to give them what they needed when they needed it.

Speaker 1:

That's a beautiful analogy. That's so beautiful Something that I'm thinking, recalling in your story, there was a moment where John was in a meeting and he felt the Lord impress on him that he was supposed to give away a very large sum of money and John's response was like all right, lord, but you got to tell Taniah too, you got to get her on board. And he comes home, he tells you how much it is and you're like, yeah, okay, let's go. Like God wasn't just inviting John into it, god was calling both of you into it. And that piece, when you shared your heart of this wasn't just something God was calling my husband into, it's something that he was inviting us both into.

Speaker 1:

I want to just lean into that a little bit more Because, again, there's such a stirring in people's hearts right now and I'm feeling it and I'm hearing it almost every day of people saying I'm ready for more, I'm ready to trust God more, I'm ready to lean into these different things, but maybe my spouse just isn't quite there yet, or maybe they're not on the same page yet, and so hearing one spouse receive quite a strong word from the Lord and then the other spouse coming alongside and like, yeah, that wasn't just for you, that was for both of us. Let's do it, let's go together Really struck my heart and I'm just wondering if you could speak into that piece again just a little bit more and potentially offer some encouragement for spouses who want to be there, but they're still in that growing phase.

Speaker 2:

That's a really good question. The first thing I'm going to say is you can't pray too much. There is no such thing as praying too much, and there's a verse in James that talks about confessing our sins to the elders of the church and having them pray over us. If there is anything, if my husband and I are not in agreement about something major, that I feel like the Lord has spoken to me, first I want to make sure that there aren't any blockages coming from my end. I want to make sure that there aren't any blockages coming from my end. Guess what there are, because I'm not Jesus. I love Jesus, he lives in me, but there are blockages and there are unconfessed sins, or sins that he hasn't yet peeled down to, that are getting ready to be exposed. Because I'm willing, because I recognize that I want to go to the next level. I want to go to a deeper level here. I want to be a cleaner vessel for whatever it is.

Speaker 2:

Your will is, and so we have to be willing to acknowledge and allow the Lord to reveal to us any areas of sin in our lives it may not be related to money at all and to repent for those things and if we need to apologize to it. He may or may not tell you to apologize to your spouse, but the elders of the church, you're going to repent to them and they're going to pray over you and then also just praying, lord, not my will, but yours, be done, and I place my spouse in your hands and I know that you're able to change their heart. I know you're able to change their heart and I am going to just continue to ask you for that. I'm going to practice prayer and petition with thanksgiving, because I don't want to walk away from a prayer feeling defeated. I want to walk away from a prayer feeling grateful and peaceful, because that is what he promises me. And so I am going to pray and petition, and I may stay in that prayer and petition for a little while, and then thanksgiving.

Speaker 2:

And then I say and this is something a new practice that I've had is I say and now I receive your peace, I receive your peace. I might not feel his peace right then, but I speak that I receive your peace. So, in every way, coming into agreement and into alignment with his ways and believing and Lord, help me overcome my own belief, because it's been 12 months now and that person's heart has not changed, and I have been praying. Now you know, if you're praying to the point where it's draining your faith, maybe turn it over to some intercessors and ask the Lord to give you peace and release, but don't give up until you have prayed through to the point where God invites you to. And then also, you know, believe that you might have not heard it right.

Speaker 1:

I mean, it's possible, she's giving a very gentle face right now. Yeah, I know you can't see it, but she's giving a very sympathetic, gentle face.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I mean you know, you may not have heard it correctly.

Speaker 2:

It may have been an emotion and it may have been an impulse, and God's not upset with that, but be willing to say you know what, lord, maybe that wasn't you, maybe that wasn't what you actually said, maybe you didn't say we need to, you know, sell everything we own and give it to this, and maybe you did say something a little bit more reasonable, closer to what my spouse said. So we have to be willing, we have to yield, we have to pray, and we get to pray, we get to trust God, because he is nothing if not trustworthy and he loves to show us that.

Speaker 1:

Amen. Oh man, all right, I'm taking pen and pencil, I'm taking a lot of notes. I'm glad this is recorded so I can go back and listen to it later. It's certainly helping me a ton.

Speaker 1:

Just one of the things that is just completely shining through you and I is just this daily. The things that is just completely shining through you and I is just this daily, hourly practice of walking with God and constantly seeking Him and putting Him first and living out your faith through actions. So what I'm not hearing you say is like, oh man, I wish me and my spouse could have gone and done this thing, but they said no, so we're moving on right. There's not a lot of like wishing involved or like, oh you know, just like nice thinking, but it is a very proactive. I'm seeking out the Lord, I'm praying, I'm studying scripture, I'm confessing sins, I'm talking to the elders at the church, like I'm inviting community in to these very, you know, vulnerable places, I'm asking for my spouse's forgiveness, like you're doing all of these things, and it's a very active faith. So that's something that I just want to speak out and highlight again for our listeners is this is a very active faith. This isn't a passive life with Jesus. That's not what we're after. That's not what we're after, and he wants so much more.

Speaker 1:

And I just love now how you highlighted so many times of like we get to. Not you should or you have to, but we get to. And so even that, if you get absolutely nothing else from this conversation, but that very gentle heart posture between have to and get to can just make such a difference in someone's walk with the Lord. I get to trust God. Who else could I trust more than that? No one, right Like who's going to be more faithful? No, I get to do this, I get to pray, and so I just appreciate all of these things that you're highlighting and speaking. We've already extracted so much from you and I appreciate you so much. Thank you.

Speaker 1:

If you wanted someone to listen to your story here and I know we're just showing like a tiny, tiny, tiny piece of it there's so much more to each of our stories. Right, we're very complex people and God does so much in us. But if you wanted someone to walk away with one thing from today's conversation or one piece of encouragement or advice, you want to give them no pressure. I'm totally putting you on the spot right now. But what would that one thing be?

Speaker 2:

It would be just a simple prayer Lord, invade the finances in our marriage, invade it. You have now opened up the floodgates of heaven for healing, for purpose, for alignment, for impact, for unity, for peace, for all of the fruit of the Spirit You've surrendered, you've yielded, you have invited Him Come and invade it, and he will, and it will be good. We have to remember that God wars. He is the God of war. He's warring on our behalf.

Speaker 1:

Amen, that's right. It doesn't necessarily always like feel good right away, right Like it is hard work that we get to do Again. It's that cleansing period. It's that cleansing. I love that Lord invade our finances, invade our marriage. That's beautiful. Thank you so much, naya. Thank you for just your generous spirit with your time and sharing a piece of your story. Y'all you need to watch the Supply Line film by Gospel Patrons when it comes out this fall. Go follow them on social media, sign up for their newsletter to make sure that you see this. You gotta see their story. It will truly bless you and your spouse. Thank you again, nye. Thank you everyone for listening. Thank you.

Speaker 2:

Thank you.

Speaker 1:

Courtney. Thank you everyone. God bless you. It was such a pleasure. Thank you for listening. If today's conversation has blessed you, share our podcast with a friend and if you have a money question, email me at Courtney at markleycoachinggroupcom. I'm Courtney Markley and this has been the Heart of Money.