EP 68 Sober or Soberish? Katie Nessel's Guide to Mindful Drinking

Struggling with the decision to cut back or cut out alcohol can feel like an isolating battle, but it's a road well-traveled in our community. My latest guest is Katie Nessel from Soberish Mom who joins me in a conversation about mindful drinking and moderation. We share laughter and sober truths as Katie unfolds her journey from the corporate grind to the demands of motherhood, and how it inadvertently deepened her relationship with alcohol. 

In our chat, we dive into the eye-opening experiences of detoxing, the health implications that come with a sip too many, and the non-judgmental tools that can guide us towards a healthier balance. We also explore the landscape of personal drinking philosophies, from total sobriety to cautious moderation, all while savoring the joy that life's occasions bring – minus the hangover.

Finally, Katie discusses her experience of managing a social media account and even shares some of her go-to non-alcoholic drink options – because who says a good time has to be spiked? Join us for an episode that's brimming with ideas for new rituals and the kind of warm, engaging conversation you'd enjoy over a freshly made mocktail. With Katie's infectious energy and an array of tips for the sober curious, this episode is your invitation to a different kind of happy hour!

Get in touch with Katie!
Website | Instagram | TikTok


Mentioned Resources
Sunnyside Mindful Drinking App

Thanks to Giesen 0% Wines for being our exclusive non-alcoholic wine sponsor!

Connect with Deb on Instagram: @Mocktail.Mom

• Grab a guide to help when dining out: Ordering Out Made Easy
• Join my wonderful membership community, Thriving Alcohol-Free: Mocktail Mom Membership
• Website: MocktailMom.com
• Celebrate your Authentic Freedom

You are loved. Big Time Cheers!

Transcript

Deb: 0:01

Buckle up, friends, and welcome to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I'm your host, deb, otherwise known as Mocktail Mom, a retired wine drinker that finally got sick and tired of spinning on life's broken record called Detox to Retox. Let this podcast be an encouragement to you. If alcohol is maybe a form of self-care for you, where you find yourself dragging through the day waiting to pour another glass, I am excited to share with you the fun of discovering new things to drink when you aren't drinking and the joy of waking up each day without a hangover. It is an honor to serve as your sober fun guide, so sit back and relax or keep doing whatever it is you're doing. This show is produced for you with love from the great state of Kentucky. Thanks so much for being here and big time cheers, okay, hey, friends, welcome back to the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. We have in the house with us today the most viral content creator that I know. Oh, my goodness, just a couple of ice cubes. That's it. Couple of ice cubes. And the world was set on fire by some ice cubes, literally.

Deb: 1:08

Katie of Soberish Mom is here today. If you guys are not following her, well, you should be. I hope you already are, but please go follow her on Instagram, soberish Mom. Her website is SoberishMomcom. Katie is the voice behind Soberish Mom, a blog and social media accounts dedicated to mindful drinking, which I really want to get into today, helping give people a judgment-free place to look at their drinking habits and become more mindful about their alcohol consumption. So, katie, I'm super excited to talk about this today. I mean, you talk about alcohol-free cocktails and non-alcoholic drinks and you do product reviews, and your Instagram is just so much fun. You were a guest, you were a presenter at the Mocktail Summit. It was so wonderful. You did. It was so wonderful, thank you, thank you, thank you for being a part of the inaugural event and I cannot wait to record with you again for 2025.

Katie: 1:54

That's going to be fun.

Deb: 1:55

I don't know what are we doing next year? I can't even imagine what you're going to be doing. We were doing. You did the best ice cube tips last year, so I don't know what we're doing to figure that out. Okay, thank you for being here, thank you, thank you, and it has just been so fun watching your account just sky rocket.

Katie: 2:11

Like it's just the.

Deb: 2:13

it just took off and it's been so much fun. I'm just over here in Kentucky cheering you on.

Katie: 2:16

Oh, you're so sweet Well you've been heartedly you were such an inspiration to me in from the very beginning and thank you so much. And Instagram is amazing. It's where I've built such an amazing community. I mean the messages I get from people about what is mindful drinking, or hey, I've started following your account. I've cut back my drinking in half. It's like that's what keeps me going. So I'm just yeah, I'm really grateful to be connected with so many amazing people like you and just strangers from all over the world. It's like if there's something really beautiful about the connection and community I've found through kind of mindful drinking and Instagram and everything's great.

Deb: 2:51

Isn't it amazing? It's so different, right, like cause you come, your background is corporate America, right? Yep, so this is very different than corporate America, where you're getting these people dropping in messages like how you're inspiring them, right? I mean, did you get that in corporate America? Was anybody emailing you like you've inspired me in that last Zoom call, I know?

Katie: 3:11

I know I tell my husband all the time I'm like I've never had a job where I felt like maybe it was inspiring people. Like you know, I hope Sober's Mom is inspiring some people out there and I've never had that feeling before and so a lot of the time I have imposter syndrome, just like who am I? What am I doing here? But I'm very vulnerable about sharing my journey and I think that allows other people to feel very vulnerable and share truly where they're at. So it's been, yeah, amazing, but my background is mostly in.

Katie: 3:40

I did do quite a bit of marketing but event planning, high-end restaurants, hospitality that's where I got a lot of like my wine training and things and so I was always around a lot of alcohol. During COVID, when I was having my second child, I decided to become a stay-at-home mom and I stayed home for two years, which was amazing. It was such a blessing. I loved it. But that's when my drinking really kicked up, which is kind of funny because I was already around alcohol so much and I was, you know, always kind of a heavy drinker. I thought of myself as a normal drinker and now I'm like that was pretty heavy drinking.

Katie: 4:14

But really a big change for me was when I became a stay-at-home mom and, as you know, being a mom it's like your day is long 14, 12, 14 hours days. We have very little family help where we are, and I was just with two kids all by myself all day and suddenly at five o'clock I was like reaching for the wine. This is like earmarking the end of my day. This is my reward. I've heard you talk about it a lot. It's like it's that reward system that you're kind of trained into and I was very ingrained in, like mommy wine culture on my Instagram account. That's like all I saw and stuff and yeah, it just kind of crept up. So that's kind of was the backstory to what got me to where I am now yeah, isn't it crazy, right, you think like being home, you know.

Deb: 4:57

But yeah, it is. It was for me the same thing. Like it was that defining. Like okay, I'm having my wine now and I'm kind of clocking out, even though, like okay, they're not in bed yet. Like okay, now I can relax, now I can like give them a bath or whatever. Now I'm like into the second stage of the day.

Katie: 5:11

You know, we've moved on to the evening with children, the evening stage, yet the evening shift, that second shift. Even if you're working full time, then you come home and you got kids full time. It's like you're, it's. There is no easy path. It's you're, you're always on and the beautiful, heavy load of motherhood is very wonderful, it's wonderful.

Katie: 5:30

It's my favorite part of my life, but it's also the most stressful part of my life. So it's yeah, it was certainly something I turned to Then last January I mean, I'm barely a year in I just, you know, I just felt like crap and I knew my drinking was sneaking up. It's a year in. I just, you know, I just felt like crap and I knew my drinking was sneaking up. It was right after the holidays and so I went on like a 10 day cleanse. I started on a Thursday, so it would span two weekends.

Katie: 5:50

I had a very strong association with drinking on the weekends and I immediately I know a lot of people don't feel great right away. It takes time to kind of detox and or they feel awful. For you know, I mean amazing. Really, my whole life changed within two weeks and during those two weeks I really educated myself for the first time ever about what alcohol does to your health.

Katie: 6:14

I listened to the podcast, I read articles and books and it was like the veil had been lifted. Wow, I never understood how horrible alcohol really was for your gut health, your brain health. I didn't know the links between cancer and alcohol. I didn't know. So that's always one of my first tips when people start now is like educate yourself, because you will be shocked, I guarantee it. I actually have a good friend and her husband he's a doctor and even he was like I've never heard some of these studies or stats, yeah really. And he's like, wow, we're gonna try and they're doing. They're in the middle of like a 40 day cleanse right now. So it's just great, I think, sharing information, just like accounts like ours. It's just important to get the information out there and people can choose what kind of lifestyle they want from there.

Deb: 7:02

Totally. I love that, yes, people can choose, like. For me, I feel like there's I have no judgment. Like I know you live a soberish lifestyle and I love that. Like there's room for moderating. Moderating didn't work for me. You know what I mean. Maybe it will one day, I don't know, don't think so. You know what I mean, like, but I am so thankful that, like there's a place for everyone in this community.

Deb: 7:21

There is everyone in this community, there is there is, there's no judgment, it's not all or nothing. You know, for some people it's like this, really, you really can moderate and I'm like, yay, I wish I could, I wish I could, cause there's days I'd really like a glass of wine, you know. But yeah, yeah, to be able to moderate and yeah, so, okay. So how do you decide when, when I know, like some people have asked you, like when do you drink, or like cause I know you drink a ton less, obviously, yeah, yeah.

Katie: 7:47

Yeah, so I have cut my drinking back by about 90%. I track my drinking on the sunny side app. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard of them. Yep, yes, the data has been really helpful for me to see. Like, hey, you saved your body 40 drinks this month. It's like what and how many calories you've saved yourself. How much?

Deb: 8:07

money Might be like 40 bottles.

Katie: 8:09

Yeah, I mean, when I first started I was like you just don't really realize until you see the numbers in front of you, and so that was incredibly helpful for me, and so I always tell people. I can't tell you when it's going to be a good time to drink or what relationship you should have with alcohol. It's a very personal, unique journey. I don't think that any amount of alcohol is healthy. I just like I don't think going to McDonald's is healthy.

Deb: 8:35

But I still go occasionally, exactly, exactly.

Katie: 8:38

I just believe in moderation and so and I think the truth is that like sobriety is going to be a non-starter for a lot of people when they're approaching cutting back. That's kind of how I always felt. I was like, oh my God, it has to be, I have to go to AA or something Like I don't know what to do. That's kind of what led me to starting the account was just hopefully opening that door to sober curiosity. Like I never intended to drink as little as I do now. I drink zero to two drinks a week is kind of my average, and so you'll be surprised, maybe, at how much my goal was like to cut back half, and so now you'll be surprised. But to your original question when do I decide it's okay to drink is? You know, I try I never use alcohol as like a crutch for stress and anxiety the way I used to. That's good.

Katie: 9:24

The truth is doing the exact opposite for you.

Katie: 9:26

Just again, something I learned where I started educating myself.

Katie: 9:29

So I try never to like lean on it or turn to it during times of sadness, depression, anxiety. You know it's just that's just going to make it so much worse, and I try, and you know kind of plan out if I'm going to be out at a dinner party and there's tons of really nice wine, I'm going to have a glass. Or if I'm on a date night with my husband, if I don't have my kids, if I don't have to get up early, you know, those are generally the times when I will, you know, kind of give myself permission to have a drink and people ask me like do you feel guilty? And I'm like I don't, I don't feel guilty the next morning, I don't feel shame, I feel like proud of myself that I have gotten to this place. So I think that, while I do think sobriety is absolutely the right option for many people and certainly the healthiest it's, you know, risk reduction is also an amazing way to find balance in your life and that's how I approach my relationship with alcohol.

Deb: 10:22

I love that, yeah, and I felt the same way, like I felt like like the word sober, like sober, when I was. I just wanted to moderate that was.

Deb: 10:28

My goal was like I just want to be able. I just want to be able to drink less. I just wanted to drink less, yeah, and then, as I took my little break and, you know, took a couple of weeks off, took a month off, I was like I just I love that Because, like even talking about like healthy eating or whatever, like I made a drink on for Instagram or whatever and it had Dr Pepper. You know it had garbage in the drink. I mean it was. You know it's disgusting. This was like pulling up to McDonald's.

Deb: 10:51

you know, but it's like every once in a while you have a cupcake, you know like it doesn't mean you're not on your healthy living journey or you're not drinking your protein shake.

Katie: 11:00

I can completely relate to yeah, you know, I was thinking about your podcast you did with Izzy and how she was saying she only drank on planes or in airports or something.

Deb: 11:08

Yeah.

Katie: 11:09

It's kind of this funny thing where you, for some reason for me, having the option to drink helped me drink less because I would do these dry cleanses, I would do dry drink, I would say I'm never going to drink again, and then I would fail, I would give up and I would feel like a failure, or I would make it and I go straight back to my old habits. So give me myself even the option to drink, and a lot of the times I'll have like a day like with my sunny side up, like okay, it's Saturday, I have two drinks planned and I just don't the freedom from thinking about alcohol all the time is really nice.

Deb: 11:42

It's so nice, isn't it? Do you feel? Yeah, it is, there's a freedom. There is an absolute freedom of not drinking.

Katie: 11:49

Yes, yes, and I think probably because, like we run these accounts, it probably seems like I'm thinking about it and planning a lot and I'm doing a lot of work around my gray area drinking and it's like I'm really not like I. It's really easy for me now. It was hard in the beginning and, um, that's something that I'm very honest about is like had setbacks. I had to put work into it. It wasn't like I just did a 10 day cleanse and there we go. Yeah, it felt great.

Deb: 12:13

And then I never thought about it again, and then I never thought about it again.

Katie: 12:16

It's just so easy, easy breezy lemon squeezy.

Deb: 12:21

Yeah, it was soberish mom. And then I made an ice cube and that's the rest of it. And then I made an ice cube and I became famous.

Katie: 12:30

Yeah, it was not that easy, but yeah and so I think it's the journey. Something I'm honest about in the beginning is like it's going to be hard. You're going to have setbacks and try not to come at it from a place of shame or judgment and being harsh on yourself. It's like just be curious. Why did I drink more than I said I was going to last night? Why did I drink when I said I wasn't going to at all? And learn from that. Continue to be curious and just continue working at it. No-transcript, just kind of work through it.

Deb: 13:29

Change is hard.

Katie: 13:30

It just is so.

Deb: 13:31

That's true. No, that's very true. That's very true. Yeah, it's funny. You say, like you know that you give yourself the freedom right to drink or whatever. Like that you drink less, right, because you're like, okay, if I want to have two drinks, you know, this Saturday night I can, or whatever. And I kind of feel the same in the sense. I'm like you know, the alcohol is always going to be there, like it's not, like total wine is closing up because I'm not drinking right now the non-alcoholic stuff. But do you know what I mean? Like I I kind of feel that same thing, you know, in the sense of like the alcohol is always there if I want to go back to it, that's a great don't want to.

Katie: 14:04

Even if you're sober, it's like the choice is there every single day.

Deb: 14:07

The choice is there. Yeah, like, but yeah, I, I have such respect for that. Okay, as you guys know, I love Giesen zero percent wines. Their Sauvignon Blanc is my go-to on a regular basis, but they recently launched a delicious sparkling fruit 0%, which is quickly becoming a fan favorite. I am so proud to have Giesen as the exclusive non-alcoholic wine sponsor of the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast.

Deb: 14:29

Giesen's 0% wines are created through the magic of advanced spinning cone technology to remove the alcohol from their full-leaded wines. The award-winning winemaker Duncan Shuler and his team have done wonders in Marlborough, new Zealand, by creating an entire family of 0% wines with all the flavor and deliciousness you expect from traditional quote full-leaded wine. Their non-alcoholic wines maintain the aroma and the body to create a low-calorie wine that never contains more than 0.5 ABV. Globally available, look for Giesen 0% wines wherever you shop for your non-alcoholic options. Their family of alcohol-free wines include the most effervescent member of the family, the Sparkling Brut 0%, which is absolutely delicious for any celebration.

Deb: 15:06

My personal favorite, although I do love them all, is the Sauvignon Blanc, coming in at only 100 calories for the entire bottle. And, not to be missed, the other members, members of their 0% family the Riesling, the Premium Red Blend, the Rosé, the Pinot Gris. With Giesen's 0% wines, there's a de-alcoholized wine for everyone and every occasion. Give Giesen a try and let me know how much you love it, and if you want to meet their winemaker, go back to episode 33 of the podcast, where Duncan Shuler joined me to share about the Giesen story. So what advice maybe would you give to somebody who's like just you know, maybe like somebody who's just starting?

Katie: 15:40

Yeah, yeah. So, okay, a couple of my first few things are you know, I did start with a dry cleanse like give your body the chance to experience what it's like to feel dry, whether that's for 15 days, 30 days. Have it span a couple weekends, because I think in society it's very ingrained in our culture to drink on the weekends. So give yourself a break and then set a goal. Have a plan. If you're not sober, you can't count days because you're always going to be starting over. So make a plan. Whether you're using a little calendar or a journal, you're using an app like Sunnyside, say, okay, I want to cut back 50%, or I want to cut back 75% or whatever that number is. Make a plan and just keep working towards it.

Katie: 16:27

And tracking you know that's. So I didn't know, like, what habit tracking was, but it's habit tracking, tracking your habits. And when I did that, I started tracking other habits too, like silly stuff, like making my bed in the morning, like I terrible about that, and so I would do that. And I was starting this new like a medication like face, like tretinoin or something like retinol. I was really vulnerable about tracking when I was using it and look your skin is glowing.

Katie: 16:46

Oh, thank you. Well that you know less drinking is nice, um, and so I, I, I tracked all these things and I got in the habit of everyday habit tracking and then part of that, of course, was drinking. So that's, yeah, make a plan. It's kind of my number two cleanse, plan Three, of course, nightly replacement, like the ritual of drinking, so important that five o'clock happy hour. Your recipes are amazing. That's why I do the recipes, recommendations of products, because the first product I tried not alcohol, wine from the grocery store was very disappointing.

Deb: 17:19

So you know, the first product I tried, non-alcoholic wine from the grocery store, was very disappointing. So the grape juice in the wine bottle, that was disappointing.

Katie: 17:23

I was like, oh there's, there has to be something better. Of course there is, but that took time. The non-alcoholic beers are amazing, you know. They're just so close to the real thing. So find that nightly replacement fancy glass for a fancy ice, that's, you know a lot of what I talk about.

Deb: 17:47

So have your night replacement and then get busy.

Katie: 17:48

I could not believe how much free time I had when I started drinking less. Isn't that a shock? Shock. You don't understand how much time it's taking from you. It's stealing so much time from you and your evenings, your hangovers. The next morning, your brain fog, like I, became a highly highly productive person when I started drinking a lot less. I mean, it was just incredible.

Katie: 18:07

But boredom is kind of the enemy of moderation and sobriety. I find like when I'm in social settings, that's like the easiest time for me to not drink. It's when I'm bored at home, you know, and I'm kind of like, or we're on vacation, I'm kind of bored and you know, we're just kind of hanging out. It's like get busy. So making finding plans during those times you're most likely to drink from 430 to 630. That was my time is like book a class, go read a book, take a walk, find a friend, you know, talk to your friends about it and stay busy. It's like now's a great time to start a new hobby. That's part of why I started writing, started doing the blog. It gave me an outlet you know, talk about.

Deb: 18:45

Okay, I was going to ask you. So what do you do in that time? Now you're busy running an Instagram account.

Katie: 18:50

Yes, yes, yeah, yeah. Now we're just crazy busy and I think that was part of it too is I was with my kids and it was like I was with them all day and I love them. It's wonderful. So it's like can be a little boring playing Candyland for the 15th time, like let's have a glass of wine.

Deb: 19:05

You're like, I'd like this ladder to go right to the bar. You know the little. What's the little ladder? What's that ladder called?

Katie: 19:11

Yeah, so that was the real struggle for me was being at home from 4.30 to 6.30 with my kids and being like, how am I going to fill this time when I was like kind of drinking, you know, la, la, la, that was my activity. So in the beginning that was really hard. We did a lot of outings, we did a lot of going places, just going getting out of the house, go for a walk, you know things like that. Because it is no-transcript, it's a lot easier.

Deb: 19:49

Yeah, yeah.

Katie: 19:50

Yeah, how old are your kids? Three and five? Oh, they're little, they're really young. They're little. Yeah, they're babies. Yeah, they're babies, so yeah.

Deb: 19:59

Okay, so is your five-year-old. Is he in kindergarten? He starts in the fall.

Katie: 20:05

Oh, so they're both. They're home. Yeah, they're home, yeah, well, so now I went back to work, like last summer, so kind of right when I was starting this journey, I started this amazing job. I work in PR and social media, so that's part of it. The social media stuff is there, which is great, and then I started working full time, got crazy busy. That also, I felt like I was able to handle more, not drinking. So they're in, they're in preschool, and then they're all start. Okay he'll start yeah.

Deb: 20:27

Okay, oh my gosh, I remember those days. My girls are yeah, my girls are 16 and 22.

Katie: 20:33

So I was like I know her 20s, yeah, okay, yeah, she's getting married yes she's getting married in like six weeks or five weeks. I cannot believe it's so soon. Oh my gosh. Congratulations, it's crazy. That's a lot. Thank you.

Deb: 20:45

I don't even know what is happening, because just yesterday I was taking her to preschool and I know everybody says that like it goes so fast, everybody says that, but like I can't, even, like I'm gonna start crying because it just goes, it does, it really does, yeah. And lily, my younger one, just got her driver's license and now she's like, um, she's like I'm like a little birdie, mom, I'm gonna fly out of the nest soon. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, she keeps saying it over and over now when she goes driving that's hilarious yeah, my little birdie, you're birdie.

Deb: 21:17

oh, oh, my gosh Ready to go.

Katie: 21:18

No, you're like, no, you're going to clip your wings.

Deb: 21:20

You're never leaving. You're never leaving. No, how can I figure? The other day she tried to leave and I took both the sets of keys. I'm like you're not going anywhere, you're not leaving, you're not drinking, okay. So I mean, you have such experience, obviously, in restaurants and hospitality. So when you go out, if there's nothing on the menu, is there something in particular that you will ask them to make for you, or how do you handle that?

Katie: 21:43

Yeah, I will say I'm very lucky in Seattle because the non-alcoholic scene is incredible here. That's awesome. Amazing spirits, multiple lines of spirits at most restaurants we go to at least almost always a non-alcoholic beer, you know, or whatever. We have a couple local breweries in Washington that are making non-alcoholic beer now. So that's great. So we'll say I'm very fortunate. But I actually was just at a restaurant and they didn't, and they most are really nice. You know there's a couple this one was an Indian restaurant. They have coconut water. So like coconut water, lime, soda, lemon whatever, you know, it's like easy.

Katie: 22:19

But at lime soda, lemon, perfect, whatever you know. It's like easy. But at most restaurants you can get one of the favorite things I get is like I like a kind of bitter, salty kind of will make, you know, emulate the layers of a cocktail. So grapefruit juice soda and I always put salt in it and it's oh yeah. And so I tell people to put salt or like use a salt rim for even like a orange juice soda, or like use a salt rim for even like a orange juice soda, salt and lime and juices and sodas. You're going to go far with that.

Deb: 22:42

Can't go wrong. Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yes, or even like the tahini seasoning. Is that how you?

Katie: 22:47

say it. I've been saying tagine. Is it tahini? Okay, oh my God, am I wrong? You're the one who taught me how to say geese. I was saying Geissen forever.

Deb: 22:55

Okay, can we just have a? Let's talk here about all the things we've said wrong, okay, yes, I used to say Tajin, it's Tajin, tajin. I used to say Geissen, it's Geissen, Right. I used to say free, it's no. I used to say fray, it's free, it is free. I've wondered. It is free Shirley. I used to call Surly, oh, okay, okay, yes, surely, okay. Knutson, the wonderful juice. I used to call Knutson. All of them, I've said every single. I thought it was Knutson too. It's a hard K, it's a hard K. So, yeah, tethos, wine. I was saying them wrong. Yes, I've said them all Like literally. Yes, I've said them all Literally. I feel like, well, we're just going to say them all wrong and then we're going to learn.

Katie: 23:39

We're just learning as we go. Yeah, I listened to one of your podcasts where you're pronouncing geese and I was like oh, Well, because I said it wrong so many times, probably on Instagram, that I got a DM.

Deb: 23:51

This was way back when I got a DM saying it's geese and like the geese at the park you know kind of thing, oh my. God, I was like okay, uh, duly noted, yeah, got it. It is very fun. It's very fun. Yes, it's so fun because there's so many different brands. But yeah, I can't keep up with how to say anything. Yeah, nothing, I say nothing, right All right.

Deb: 24:21

So, yeah, drink what do you love? I am so boring. That is what's so funny is I am the most boring person ever. Like I will. I mean, like I'm not making fancy mocktails at night, I'm not. I just like I'm so boring. Um, last night I made something. I don't know if it's super boring, it was, it was very good. I used um, I almost made like a, uh, like a mint julep, but I used some shrub, some elderberry shrub in it Some non-alcoholic whiskey from a liar's.

Deb: 24:42

This is not boring so to water, that was normally, yeah, but like on a normal night I'm usually I love the wines. I love to drink non-alcoholic wines. You know that's probably my like go-to is like to pour a glass of non-alcoholic wine and maybe I'll add all the bitter you know, add that. Or, you know, to like to bring it up a level, even ones that are good, it's nice to add something to it. Or, like I'll do, the non-alcoholic red and fresca.

Katie: 25:06

Oh yeah, I need to try that. I saw that on your page. I was like I need to try that. I love fresca.

Deb: 25:10

It's just like the easiest sangria tasting drink. You know it's not, it doesn Anyway, yeah, fresca, yeah, back from the. Probably before you were born, we were all drinking Fresca.

Katie: 25:27

Oh no, god, I love Fresca so much. Oh yeah, no, I have a case in the ground. So I'm like, oh, I gotta try that. Yeah, I the wines do, and I think it's that ritual of like that's what I used to drink.

Deb: 25:35

That's what I drank. I wasn't a cocktail girl, yeah.

Katie: 25:39

Yeah, and I do a lot of RTD line. I have some non-alcoholic gins I like, but yeah, I'm simple too.

Deb: 25:44

Yeah, are you surprised? I didn't come from a hospitality background, I was surprised how much sugar is in tonic.

Katie: 25:56

I didn't realize.

Deb: 25:57

So yeah, when you're saying a diet tonic. I didn't realize. Yeah, because I'm now reading labels. I had Dr Brooke on the podcast. Oh, I love her I love her. Yeah, I love her. Yes, and like she really helped me, like I don't know why. It was like a light bulb moment of like, okay, you need to really read your labels, Deb.

Katie: 26:14

That's my problem with a lot of the RTD. The ready to drink can is there's like 20 grams of sugar. I'm like dude, two of these is like 50 grams of sugar. So yeah, so I'm careful about that too. I've done a lot of reviews of like less than 10 grams a glass. Even 10 is kind of a lot.

Deb: 26:31

So like Right right.

Katie: 26:33

You're like yeah, yeah, you know they all have a lot of sugar in them. So yeah, I try and do really low sugar. I've experimented a lot with monk fruit sweeteners Same, Yep, Same. I use Swoon. I love it. Doesn't have that chemical taste that Stevia has, I think. Personally, I just like it better like an aspartame. It's very clean and sweet, so I've been using a lot of those. I do a jalapeno or a Thai chili sweetener. I just keep it in the fridge and it kind of crystallizes a little bit and that in a soda all week and I'm like it tastes like a treat and it's zero calories, zero sugar, just mixed with soda. So so I do a lot of that too yeah.

Katie: 27:10

Yeah, throw in some amethyst. I love amethyst I saw your recent post, and I just did a post with them too. Oh my gosh, I'm obsessed with their stuff.

Deb: 27:19

It's so good, it's so delicious.

Katie: 27:21

Yeah, it's really delicious.

Deb: 27:23

And I love that. It has like that little bite to it. You know, it just has that little, a little. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I, that's what I missed. Yeah, it was the kick. Yes, yes, okay. So do you want to share? What has it been like to go viral, to be completely like? Your account has just gone completely crazy. What is that like? What is happening? You've had so much. Not on the same level, no, not on the same level.

Katie: 27:50

Well, I think what's been the most rewarding for me is one of the Ice Cube videos that went viral. That had, like I don't know, 10 or 12 million views. The voiceover was about mindful drinking and it was about why I do fancy ice and how having the ritual of an evening drink without the alcohol like celebrating your drink whether or not there's alcohol in it, like that to get that message out there just meant so much to me. It was like, oh my gosh, this is like reaching so many people and then getting hundreds of messages of like this really resonated with me. Or like, oh, I'm so excited to find tips for cutting back because that's what I'm looking for. So that's the most you know impactful thing for going viral. The hard part is it can bring the crazies out too. Get a lot of crazy DMs, a lot of requests for feet pics which I'm considering, but no, seriously, oh my God. So yeah, creepy, creepy creepy.

Deb: 28:43

Yeah, there's creeps. Yeah.

Katie: 28:44

Yeah, I try to be really, yeah, I try to be really careful going viral. Also, like now, I'm really careful about how much I put my kids on the account, like I only now kind of shoot them from the side or the back and try and be really mindful about how much they're on it because they're so young and so I try to be careful about that. There's some weird weirdos out there, so yeah, but you know, you do part of running an Instagram account. It's like you get a lot of positive and you get a lot of negative too, and that that mental toll has been kind of a lot for me. It's been something that I've had to learn to kind of cope with and to kind of try and ignore some of the really ugly things I get.

Katie: 29:22

But it's definitely the positive, beautiful messages I get are like tenfold, which is I'm so grateful for. I always I always try and put in posts and stories and things like if you DM me like I personally would be the one reading it. I see them all. I love it. It means so much to me. So thank you and so. But I also have to see all the all the negative stuff too. So you know there's a lot of trolls out there, but overall, it's just been so impactful to be able to, you know, receive the positive for sure, and I try to really focus on that too.

Deb: 29:49

Yeah, yeah, no, that's so good and I love that. That was the message of your video that went so viral. To think that that I mean really Katie. That's so amazing that that was the overarching message of those ice cubes.

Katie: 30:02

Yes, I know people love this ice cube but also my voicing was on it because I had another one, another video traveling with toddlers and I had like a skincare routine that got a few million and it was like, but that's not about really what my count's about, it's like I try and keep a lot of variety and just authentic of what's going on in my life. But for that one I was like this is cool. This is really cool that so many people were able to hear that message.

Deb: 30:28

And to be of encouragement to people who are yeah, who are, who just found you or just found this idea of like wow, maybe I don't have to drink as much as I've been drinking, you know, yes, because it's like, it's a light bulb moment, like maybe I don't have to drink every time it's offered or, you know, all the time, or when I have something that really appealed to me about your account.

Katie: 30:45

When I first found you was like I hadn't even started. So, rich Mom, I was my personal account. I had messaged you months later but I couldn't remember your name. I was on TikTok and so it's like you know how you're just scrolling, scrolling and I was like, but I remember this woman in her parka walking and you were like I'm just a mom who broke up with Chardonnay. And I was like, oh my God, for some reason, that just like spoke to me and and I remember thinking about that video and thinking about like you didn't call yourself sober, which is like not a bad thing, but it was like, for some reason, it was it just the way you talked about, it was very approachable and that really appealed to me. Um, and that was like in January, I started my cleanse, like a couple of weeks later. So you were big.

Deb: 31:31

That's crazy.

Katie: 31:31

I'm kind of this crazy full circle thing that I'm on this podcast with you now.

Deb: 31:35

Cause I was like.

Katie: 31:36

I was like, who is it? And then, finally, months later, I found you on Instagram. You saw me in my parka and I was like oh, I was like it's the parka woman, the park, it's a vodka mom, and it was so funny because it was like Vodka mom. How could I not remember that name? But it was like, oh my God, I was like that's her.

Deb: 31:52

And so that was yeah, that's when I reached out. That is so funny.

Katie: 31:54

I'm your biggest fan.

Deb: 31:57

I don't know for what fan. I'm your biggest fan. I am so happy for you, katie, and I just encourage you. You know like I just encourage you. You know like it's like we have to keep our blinders on, you know, just to keep having fun, yes, and to almost keep our fingers in our ears Like I'm not listening. We can't listen too much to the bad stuff people are saying too much. It's like you're just doing your thing and I'm so happy for you. Thank you, you're inspiring so many people, thank you Right back at you.

Deb: 32:28

How do you do you get some of that negativity stuff? Yeah, nobody's ever asked me for feet pictures, but maybe it's the gray hair, maybe that's it. They're like her feet can't be that great at this stage in life. But no, yes, there's crazy people. I mean for me more on TikTok. I don't know why. I don't know why, for whatever reason I feel like there's more.

Deb: 32:47

People are. So isn't it interesting? The culture, the comment culture is so incredibly different on Instagram than TikTok. Night and day, you can post the same exact video night and day response, night and day comments, everything.

Katie: 33:03

There's a lot more. I feel there's a lot more negativity on TikTok. Instagram is where I have this beautiful community and people I've met. People are nice and then TikTok, they're like your voice is annoying. You know I don't like you. You're an alcoholic.

Deb: 33:18

You should shut up. Scroll on yeah, Scroll on people Like yeah, just like, scroll on, I don't care Like why.

Katie: 33:28

Did anyone ask you? Is anyone asking you? No, I know, I know they're like I would divorce you.

Deb: 33:31

I'm like, okay, okay, I'll tell my husband, let me tell him.

Katie: 33:36

Yeah, how long have you been married? Oh my gosh, seven years Seven years, two kids.

Deb: 33:43

You guys have pets.

Katie: 33:44

Any dogs, no pets. But we did just buy a house two days ago. No, oh, congratulations. We just put in our earnest money yesterday, so it's like fresh off that.

Deb: 33:53

You're like okay, yeah.

Katie: 33:54

We're moving. Good yeah, okay.

Deb: 33:57

So exciting. When are you moving? Mid-may, yeah, mid-may, okay, okay, oh, very, that's very exciting. Yeah, in time for your son to be in kindergarten.

Katie: 34:06

Yes, we wanted to get settled before we started. Yep have the summer, that's perfect, that's perfect.

Deb: 34:11

Katie, I'm so happy for you. Oh my gosh, I just love you and thank you for being on the podcast. Thank you for being a part of the Mocktail Summit. Yeah, just for everything that you're doing on Instagram and in the social media space Really in the social media space Really really wonderful, so many people.

Katie: 34:26

Thank you, you too, right back at you. Thanks so much, deb. Thanks for having me.

Deb: 34:31

Yes, yes, yes, yes. Big time. Cheers to you for tuning into the Thriving Alcohol-Free Podcast. I hope you will take something from today's episode and make one small change that will help you to thrive and have fun in life without alcohol. If you enjoyed this episode and you'd like to help support the podcast, please share it with others, post about it on social, send up a flare or leave a rating and a review. I am cheering for you as you discover the world of non-alcoholic drinks and as you journey towards authentic freedom. See you in the next episode.