Experience Action

CX Pulse Check - November 2024

• Jeannie Walters, CCXP • Episode 94

Share episode

Tune in to this CX Pulse Check as we uncover the vital role of communication in driving customer experience transformation. Tamsen Webster, founder of the Message Design Institute, sits down with Jeannie Walters to reveal how communication missteps often hinder change, drawing insights from Tamsen’s latest book. Through examples across industries, they highlight proactive messaging strategies that build trust, even amid challenges like credit card fraud, and explore how acknowledging customers’ past interactions can lead to a more connected and resilient experience.

The discussion also covers balancing communication frequency to avoid alert fatigue and illustrates how vague communications, like hidden banking fees, can frustrate customers. Discover how aligning employee and customer experiences—starting with frontline involvement—can make change implementation smoother and align with organizational values. Wrapping up with the power of a customer-centered culture in crisis management, this episode promises actionable insights to elevate your communication strategy in customer experience.

About Tamsen Webster, MA, MBA, Founder at the Message Design Institute:
Part message designer, part English-to-English translator, part magpie, Tamsen Webster helps leaders craft their case for large-scale change. In addition to her work in and for major organizations such as Harvard Medical School, Fidelity Investments, and Klaviyo, she’s a judge and mentor for the Harvard Innovation Labs, a professional advisor at the Martin Trust Center for MIT Entrepreneurship, and has spent over 10 years as the Idea Strategist for one of only nine legacy-level TEDx events in the world. She was named to the Thinkers50 Radar in 2022 and is the author of two books, Find Your Red Thread: Make Your Big Ideas Irresistible and Say What They Can't Unhear: The 9 Principles of Lasting Change. She lives in Boston with her husband, two sons, and two brindle Greyhounds, Hazel and Walnut.

Follow Tamsen on...
LinkedIn
X/Twitter
Facebook
Instagram
YouTube

Articles Mentioned:

Want to ask a question? Visit askjeannie.vip to leave Jeannie a voicemail! (And don't forget to follow Jeannie on LinkedIn! www.linkedin.com/in/jeanniewalters/)

Jeannie Walters:

It's the Experience Action Podcast and I'm your host, Jeannie Walters. This is my favorite episode of the month because it's time for CX Pulse Check, where me and a special co-host talk about recent things in the news that impact customer experience and what you can learn from it. I am so excited about our co-host this month. It is the one and only Tamsen Webster! Tamsen hello.

Tamsen Webster:

Hello! How are you, Jeannie?

Jeannie Walters:

I am great. I'm so thrilled you're here and for those very few people who might not be aware of you and your work, I would love for you to share a little bit about what you do and who you are.

Tamsen Webster:

Sure, so I'm Tamsen Webster, literally the only one. That's kind of fun. I am a message designer by trade. I am the founder of the Message Design Institute and I have spent the bulk of my 25 plus year career trying to answer the question about how can we accelerate the understanding and adoption of new ideas.

Jeannie Walters:

Excellent. And for those of you who have not followed Tamsen forever, like yours truly, then I would recommend you follow on LinkedIn. You go and look up her work around the Red Thread and you have a new book.

Tamsen Webster:

I do there. It is right here. Look at that. Look, it's already flagged. Love that.

Jeannie Walters:

It is already flagged and I barely started it. But this is one of my favorites, "when two truths fight, only one wins that. I mean there there is a lot of power in this book because I think everybody right now is really trying to figure out communication in a different way, trying to figure out how do we make sure that we get our message across and how do we do it in a way that people can really not only hear it but act on it and remember it for a long, long time.

Jeannie Walters:

So, yeah, this is it's really really exciting so

Tamsen Webster:

Well thanks, yeah, I, I am excited to get it out into the world it.

Tamsen Webster:

It just really struck me in all the years that I've been doing this you know, branding, messaging, change communications, organizational communications how often just change broke at the at the communication part, and I've been ever curious about that and kept kind of working backwards up the line.

Tamsen Webster:

So I started in marketing. Maybe it's the brand, maybe it's this thing, maybe it's this thing, maybe it's this thing. And then fundamentally I got to the core of where I think a lot of it is, which is that fundamentally to use a quote that I quoted in my first book from Agatha Christie that words are only the outer clothing of ideas. And I think a lot of times, for good reasons, because of how our brains are wired, we kind of forget why we actually believe that a new initiative or a change or a practice that we're trying to put in place for our organizations, why it is that we really believe, like in our, in our core, why that it's the right decision. And the more I have found that people have been able to articulate that, the more successful all the other things, all the other forms of communication and the implementation as it shows up in experience and how your clients and customers experience that it can have a transformational effect on all of it.

Jeannie Walters:

Absolutely! And I think change management and customer experience go hand in hand, because a lot of what we're doing is trying to change behavior and outcomes within the organization in order to deliver that. So I highly recommend that my CX leaders out there go check out that book.

Tamsen Webster:

Thank you.

Jeannie Walters:

I also wanted to kind of dive into this idea of how connected communication is in general with customer experience and with you know I've done I don't know how many customer journey mapping sessions at this point, and every single one has a communication breakdown, every single one that we discover and that we have to do something about. And so it's so connected and I think sometimes we overlook that. We think that experience is this big idea or a big thing, but it's really about all these small moments and it's really about delivering what you promise and all of those things. So, speaking of delivering what they promise, yes, we are in an era with a lot of us receiving those letters in the mail or those phone calls telling us there's been fraud on the bank account or the credit card.

Jeannie Walters:

And this first article that we pulled up here is from Business Wire and it's really about I'm going to read it and it's not the it won't sound great on audio I'm just going to say that. IQC Inc and Pymnts, which is P-Y-M-N-T-S survey, reveals consumer expectations for how banks respond to credit card fraud, and what stood out to me about this is that, first of all, it's so prevalent 25% of customers deal with some sort of fraud on a regular basis, and the fact that we all know that experience and I think that part of what you know we want to do as customer experience leaders is be as proactive as we can be- but in some cases we have to react, and we have to react really quickly.

Jeannie Walters:

So I'm just curious, like this talked about, you know how important that proactive communication was and how, if we don't deliver on that we actually erode trust pretty quickly. So any thoughts on this? What did you see?

Tamsen Webster:

Oh gosh! So many. Well I think that, so yes, the proactivity is this idea I think it comes into play is where we have this expectation as humans that we're experts in our own stuff and other people are experts in theirs. And how I think that matters here is if I trust my bank to manage my credit then I'm, I'm essentially trusting that they know more about how to keep that money and how to keep those transactions transactions protected than I do. So that moment where, if I have to go and say I think there's fraud here and they haven't, they haven't adjusted for that it does, as you say, it's a, it's an extraordinary violation of that trust because it's like what am I even doing this? Like what are you even doing If you're not paying attention to this? You're supposed to be the expert, and I think where this can really go hand in hand and kind of broader thought that came up for me as I was reading this was, I think, a lot of times in customer experience and linking it back to that communication piece, I think sometimes we think so much about the experience that we want to create for our customers and clients that we forget to account for the experience they've had to date.

Tamsen Webster:

Meaning there is, you know, so you can say that you're proactive or whatever, but like what's actually going to count for them long-term is what their repeated experience, actual experience is there, and so I think that that's both where that desire for proactivity comes from, but also, I think, more of a where the practical diagnosis can come in from a from a company standpoint, to say, okay, well, how like? What are they bringing to the table? Like, because their their their experience with fraud, their experience with credit. And all of this doesn't start usually at the moment they open an account with us. Right, there's all this other stuff. So how can we account for that, validate it and create a different experience for them based on what they're walking in with?

Jeannie Walters:

And I think it's a really important point that often when I'm working with different organizations, we kind of act like our customers are waking up inside of our journey, right.

Tamsen Webster:

They're like oh, I didn't know you were here.

Jeannie Walters:

Yeah, oh great, I'm going to plan my whole day around going to the bank and of course, that's not reality. We have to remember like these are whole people who have had whole lives and they, you know, they're trying to accomplish something. And I think one of the things that this article got me thinking about was just how easy it is to kind of become complacent. And one of the things that they talked about was you know, how do we not create alert fatigue for customers where we're saying like everything is a crisis because we want to be, we want to communicate all the time with them and be transparent, but at the same time, not everything is the same level of crisis and not everything needs their attention in that same way.

Jeannie Walters:

So I think your point about we trust you to know what you're doing, so reassurance, I think is really important and being proactive about that reassurance. But I think we also have to really think strategically about the what ifs. What if we have fraud? What if we have, you know, our phones are down? What if all of these things? And you have that plan so you can just kind of turn it on when you need it instead of scrambling.

Tamsen Webster:

Yes, I love that point that you're making, Jeannie, about we think that they've just woken up in our experience. And when you started to talk about the alerts, that that and my brain went to two places at once. Not unusual. Number one how the, the newspaper apps and the and the news apps violated that. Right? Like, I remember growing up, like watching broadcast TV, if there was an interruption of breaking news, it was something legit, big. Right? Like, and it was like I've got to train, like I had like it took me a long time to like lose the like trained in anxiety response of like a breaking news alert. And then, and then the news apps and they're, they all do it, so we're not going to say it's one or the other as just absolutely, I think, violated that experience of now everything is like breaking news. We've got paella and you're like dude, that is not breaking news, like these two things are not equivalent.

Tamsen Webster:

So the reason why I bring that up is because, again, thinking about the experience that your clients or customers bring to you, how does the experience you're creating? It's not as you say, it's not in a vacuum, it's in a it's in with everything else, which means if they're already getting too many silly alerts from from email, from social, from their news apps, and then you are just pinging with like, hey, act now, we've got a new APR rate and you're like y'all. The thing is, it's about this is one of those opportunities to be different and valuable, meaning we're only actually going to reach out to you when it's absolutely necessary, because that way you're actually training in a good way, you're conditioning your, your clients and customers to pay attention rather than to ignore you.

Jeannie Walters:

That's right, that's right.

Tamsen Webster:

And that, I think, is it's a product of really looking at, like what is the rest of the experience that they're bringing in in any given moment.

Jeannie Walters:

Yes, and I'm going to put this out to the universe just because it's a request from me to all the banks out there, because, as a small business owner with business banking, I can't tell you how many months I look at my statement and there's something that says something like statement fee and I have to call to say what is this? And they say, oh, that's because you, it's a wire fee, or it's this, or it's that perfectly logical explanation.

Tamsen Webster:

Could you just define it? Just put a glossary on the page.

Jeannie Walters:

Right! Why are you making me? Why are you making me call your people, who sometimes have to look it up, or whatever? It just like it drives me bananas, so I'm putting that out to the universe.

Tamsen Webster:

I love that. And that's a solvable problem, Jeannie. As far as I'm concerned, to either print it like you know, hey, useful terms, it goes right, like right, in the kind of like the grade back text, or, if you're getting an online statement, anything is like hyperlinked to an explanation, so you can like what is this.

Jeannie Walters:

Right! Exactly? Or just call it what it is.

Tamsen Webster:

That's right, because when we don't call things what they are, we can't help but doubt them. Right? Because, you know, one of the things I talk about in the book is that humans are wildly attuned to intent, and trust is a product of perceived capability. How good are you at this thing that you're saying that you can help me with, or that you have contracted with me to help me with, and what is your intent? And so the thing is. So when a company like a bank is proactive, it's like that builds that capability, like, oh my gosh, you caught this before I even did, and I think most of us would rather it be flagged as fraudulent and it isn't then the opposite happens right.

Tamsen Webster:

But then the second thing happens with. Intent is like when you withhold information, or it feels like you are withholding information. Well then, given again past experience to date with other companies, other corporations, et cetera, other experiences of people withholding information many of us have very negative associations with when we have to go find something out.

Jeannie Walters:

Right, that's right.

Tamsen Webster:

And so it's about getting ahead of those assumptions, those beliefs, those that past experiences may have created in your customers, even if they weren't with you. This is how you have an opportunity to really set yourself apart and to also live the values that you say that you're there for.

Jeannie Walters:

Amen, all right. Okay, we've solved banking.

Tamsen Webster:

Great! Done. Alright, next.

Jeannie Walters:

So now let's move into retail. So this is, this is just. It was really an example of a recent transformation around kind of that omni-channel experience that all organizations want and have challenges around. And this is from CX Dive and the headline is how the Vitamin Shop Builds Flexible Customer Experiences and it was really a story about the upgrade to their point of sale system and their kind of digital landscape. But what stood out to me about it was that when, one of the things that they're very proud of that they wanted to talk about was this idea that now if somebody is in the store and they go up to the point of sale system, their loyalty program can be recognized and they can really sign up for different things there. So, I think it's a great example of how so many organizations are still kindof living with legacy systems that are siloed that aren't really about the customer journey, that are about like marketing probably owns that loyalty program right, and then the point of sale system, that's probably operations or field operations or what have you.

Jeannie Walters:

But, the part about this that they mentioned at the very end of this article was really about how oh this took a lot of cross-functional communication and building on the actual experience within and this is something I see over and over again is that we are sometimes so focused on this ideal project of we're going to roll out this omni-channel thing we literally forget to include the people who are on the front lines, who will be the ones delivering it. So I think that when we think about big projects like this, you know we've talked about change management and we've talked about these things.

Jeannie Walters:

It's really about also including these groups and these people early enough in the process so that they can have a say in. Well, that doesn't make sense, right? Like we might not be able to do that. So, you know, with your kind of perspective, I'm just curious, like what are those cross-functional communication gotchas?

Tamsen Webster:

Yes, I mean, oh Lordy, this is a huge topic, Jeannie you know.

Jeannie Walters:

I know. Sorry.

Tamsen Webster:

So I mean that that is. That is a thing that I have seen from my own work and even though it's not focused so much on customer experience per se like that's, I mean, I see that all the time, when it comes to just even the core messaging of a company, right, where, you know, leadership says one thing, the, you know the, the frontline experience is something else and the customer's experience yet a third thing. And so, and I, and, and I think that you know, counterintuitively, there is a quote, unquote good reason for it, or at least there's an understandable reason I don't think it's necessarily a positive reason and that is that we, we so operate from what we wish were true, that we kind of forget that what we're, that what anybody experiences, is what is actually true, and it's that perception of that experience. That is what's what's there. And I think, if you just ask people to stop for a moment and think about those assumptions and I know that sounds like kind of a weird thing to ask people to stop, but but in you know, before brand, before strategy, and I know it gets based on what we were talking about before we started recording you know, part of like how I think about mindset is what is the actual operating philosophy of this company. Meaning, all right, is it okay with us if the thing that we're putting in place to make our lives easier for our customers, it actually makes lives for our team members that have to deliver it harder? Does that make sense to us? Are we comfortable with that?

Tamsen Webster:

Because oftentimes, like that's actually where, once we can establish some, really, I mean it doesn't take a lot of work, frankly, nor does it take a lot of time to say let's reverse engineer, because whatever's in place is actually representative of kind of what, what those values are that are actually used, not the ones that are set. So I think to your point of bringing those people in, not just on the conversation about, like, how do we implement this, but all the way back from why do we think this change makes sense in the first place? Why do we believe that? Like, why does, I mean it's going to start with management, I am sure, fine. And then have a conversation, kind of a tiering conversation, as we go down in those levels of the organization, assuming a traditional hierarchical structure, where we're saying, okay, this is why we believe it makes sense, if we do this, we're going to get this outcome. And now let's explain, based on our beliefs, principles, values that we actually hold and you can see us holding in practice. Here's why we think this approach will deliver on that.

Tamsen Webster:

Not here's all the extra benefits and all the features it has. Why do we think this foundational approach to this question will solve that? And you test it that level, because ultimately it's that level of acceptance that precedes everything else. Does everybody agree in principle that this should work right? And you can. Humans are actually really good at assessing on that level whether or not that argument checks out.

Tamsen Webster:

And so you save everybody not only a lot of time but a huge amount of money, because sometimes the things that stop an initiative like this in its tracks are a very basic assumption that somebody points out way too late, and that's the thing you're trying to surface as early as possible.

Jeannie Walters:

And I think the other part of that is, you know, we not only make assumptions, but we also we, we think if it works on paper, it's going to work. Right, and then you actually test it and see how things are working, and that actually can guide some of your broader communications about it. Because that's when you start thinking about, wow, we didn't, we didn't give instructions here, that's why this isn't working, or we didn't actually think about the next step of okay, now people are signed up for the loyalty program, are we emailing them about it? Are they? You know, do we have a pamphlet? What are we doing? And so I think really it's kind of this mix of thinking about the actual activities, behaviors, all of those things, and how can communication and cross-functional leadership really support that.

Jeannie Walters:

Because I've heard so many horror stories about especially technology rollouts.

Tamsen Webster:

Oh, I can only imagine.

Jeannie Walters:

And they can go to the field and then one of the examples that I've talked about before we were part of was this group that had, you know, guys in trucks and they would go out and they had their clipboard and then they started using the handheld technology, yep, and what they realized was they couldn't do, they couldn't really get the results they wanted with adoption without really getting some leadership within the field of peers. Like it was, peer communication worked much more effectively because they were able to say I know what happens, right? Like I know you're sitting in the in the driveway and you're filling out all this stuff, this is going to make that faster for you, this is what. So they really understood the benefits for those team members, and I think that's something that we sometimes forget when we're at that higher level too.

Tamsen Webster:

And that's an important point, because it isn't just the benefits. They understood the rationale, right, of that and and you know I use that term hesitantly, hesitatingly, because it's I mean, it sounds we think, when we talk about benefits, that we're actually talking about rationale and we're not like that's actually not the same thing.

Tamsen Webster:

I mean, the way I look at it, the benefits are really just another way to articulate what is the outcome that we're trying to get. We're trying to get this thing and guess what? You're going to get all these other things. And then when we try to say, okay, well, what are we doing? And we're like, but it's got all these features, that's just another way of saying like it's just a more micro way of saying we're going to make this change.

Tamsen Webster:

But we leave out why these features would produce those benefits in theory, right, based on our own experience. And because I don't care if you're in the field or leadership, whose experience do you trust the most? Your own! So when something comes down without something that checks that intuitive experiential box, you are running uphill with any implementation effort. And I'm not even talking about change, it's just because it's like we have to use communication in order to get that rationale out there.

Tamsen Webster:

But it really does start to say what have we done to make sure this is going to check that intuitive experiential box? That that is what any piece of evidence or explanation or feature and benefit is going to have to run through. We use it as a filter for the information that we're going to listen to after that. And so it's just. You know, anyway, I could. I could go on and on. I'm going to hold back, I'm going to hold back, but I think that's the major point is just that we don't, we, we think our intuitive belief about something is enough, but in the reverse situation, we wouldn't take it from somebody else, right, right. And so it's basically saying well, given the people that you're trying to implement, whose experience, whose intuition are they going to trust?

Tamsen Webster:

Yes, their own. So we need to figure out a way to make this intuitively make sense to them, Right? Which is going to be what sounds like a logical explanation, but it still needs to be from their point of view the things that are going to align with what they see day to day, day in and day out.

Jeannie Walters:

Yes, totally agree, totally agree. And I think that, like intuition is not something we always talk about in business and it's so important. It's so important in really understanding how people are receiving information, how they are perceiving the trust level I think of hey, is this good for me or not? And that all gets woven into this. So now I'm going to bring it all together. Ready?

Jeannie Walters:

So this last article is from socPub, because of course it is. How businesses can cultivate a customer-centric culture during natural disasters. And what I found kind of interesting about this was we are I'm experiencing this a little bit real time because one of our clients right now is the City of Tampa.

Jeannie Walters:

And they have been through it right in the last few weeks and witnessing what they have to do to get things stood up very quickly to respond. It's been I mean, it's really heroic. It really is the people who stay overnight and do the things that they need to do to take care of their citizens. It's really. It's just been kind of amazing to witness, and one of the things that I found very interesting about this article was really thinking through like we are going to have to deal with this. This is just part of our world now. We have more natural disasters, they're more severe, they're expanding in kind of their geography, and so a lot of times we have to think about things like well, our office might be fine, but what if we have a server farm somewhere else? What if we have a supply chain disruption?

Jeannie Walters:

What if we have all of these different things that can really impact the customer experience. And so I think when we talked about you know with the first article, about you have to be proactive and really have a plan in place and then also think about how do we actually make sure that any way that people are reaching out to us, that we are available to them. Thinking through that omni channel experience as well, it really comes together in something like this and serving people in natural disasters. So this is a little bit of crisis communications as well. So I'm just curious like what if you had that magic wand of you know, if we did this perfectly, what are some of the ways that you would recommend?

Tamsen Webster:

Okay. Well, one thing that stood out to me about that thing was how do we cultivate this culture during a natural disaster? I'm like step one, too late.

Tamsen Webster:

Honestly, and I know that's bad news, but the thing to understand is that I mean I was quickly trying to see if I could find the source for it and I can't, but we'll try to figure out later which is that there is an author who recently wrote a book, within the last, I think, two or three years, who made a distinction between skills and traits, and that's not a new distinction, but what this person was pointing out was the traits are the things that show up under stress, and so that, if for no other reason, is the reason why cultivating a customer-centric culture during the crisis is not the time to do it, because that's when a whole different set of of traits kind of comes out, because we don't have the same, frankly, capacity to process things at the same level when we're dealing, when we're in crisis mode.

Tamsen Webster:

I mean, that's that gets just to something again we were talking about before. We started hit record. Like you know, dual process theory, like when you're under anxiety, when you're in stress, when you are in those kind of high arousal states, you you really cannot make rational decisions, and so this is why it is so important to do this beforehand or, if you hadn't done it beforehand, to take the lessons of what happened during crisis and then start to figure out what A what does that reveal about? Like, what did our behavior as an organization reveal about the actual traits that are driving how we go about things?

Tamsen Webster:

Right and as you said, this has been for your client. This has been heroic. You've actually seen this like incredible community-minded mindset. That now is part of the experience that people have. So you know I hope I don't sound like you know somebody with a hammer and everything looks like a nail here, but it really does come back to saying you know fundamentally, what is our, what is our organization here to do? What is the big question that it answers? And I far prefer that framing than what's the problem that we solve? That also has to do with a kind of a funny cognitive loop here is that by simply by framing it as a question that you answer, you not only include the problem that you solve, but you actually open up people's the way people think about possible solutions to be much, much broader.

Tamsen Webster:

And everybody says they want innovation, so let's not like shut down the channels for that before it starts. So really answering that question, like what is your client's purpose in all of this, like what is the question they're trying to answer, and that can change, you know, kind of situation by situation. But stepping back, you can say, well, globally, when we're not in crisis, what is the thing that we're here to do and what do we as an organization, based on our behaviors, can we reverse, engineer, can we excavate and say that these are actually the operating principles of the business, not the aspirational ones, not the ones that we say, but the ones that we're actually governing what we do. So Jim Duterte out of the University of Virginia calls these the deep rules of organizations and he's using them in a slightly different context. But I think that's a nice kind of understandable, plain English way to get some of these complicated concepts. But I think that is what it's about, right. And even if you haven't done that work and find yourself in the middle of a crisis, I think it's worth taking an hour, and I this is what I have seen with the work that I do with clients you really can get extraordinary clarity in an hour.

Tamsen Webster:

What is our kind of guiding principle here? What is the kind of what's the purpose mission? Like, what are we trying to do? I know the army used to call it commander's intent, but one of my classmates in my doctoral program, like two of them, are actual army Rangers and they they haven't told me what the updated thing is yet, but it's that idea of like what's the big question we're trying to answer and give us like two pillars. Honestly, yeah, anymore, and they can't remember it. And so this, I think, is part of the problem with so many organizational strategies, implementation plans, brand things, like kind of your core brand documents as well, is that they are so flipping, complicated and they're so detailed because we're trying to be comprehensive that they're not actually comprehensible. Right, you know the analogy I like to use. I'm still trying to find a bigger one, but it's basically like we're serving everybody like a spaghetti and meatball dinner, fully cooked all at once, with no bowl, and we're like eat it in one bite and that's not possible. Right?

Jeannie Walters:

Right.

Tamsen Webster:

It's basically about saying like, ok, how can we give you the end of the noodle. Right? And then we're going to build on that and, like I said, at any moment is never too late to step back and say what are we going to stand for in this moment and then use that and keep it tight. Right? Again, don't turn it into 16 levels and visions and value statements and like start there, start there, and then use that to build and contextualize all the things that you do from, do afterward.

Jeannie Walters:

Yeah, yeah, and we do something with our clients called a CX Mission Statement, and part of it is because they would show like, look at all of our values and vision and all that. And number one, sometimes they never mention the customer. They they never think about the customer. And number two, like to your point, there was no way to to really access what was most important for the customer experience. And the hardest part about it is keeping it concise. They always want to add 17 bullets and all of that, and you know we try to keep it a sentence or two. And and part of that is because there are also trade-offs when you're talking about values and you're talking about your promise and you can't always be the fastest and the most accurate, right.

Tamsen Webster:

And those are table stakes, right, because? If you're not fast and if you're not accurate right. Like then what are you even doing, right?

Jeannie Walters:

Yeah.

Tamsen Webster:

I, you know, mission statements. That's a whole other topic for us, Jeannie. Because my, the first 15 years of my career were in, were in nonprofits, and so I have thoughts.

Tamsen Webster:

I mean the mission statements are wonderful because they do. They do capture the aspiration. Right and and you're right, we, because they're aspirational. I think is part of why we start to put all the stuff in. And so, yeah, the work that I do with clients is like I'm ruthless and I'm like y'all better write it with like cut, because this is what we're talking about. And really like it does come down to that, because what I really want an organization to be able to say is you know, we believe that you know, accountability. I'm using a client example here, with permission. We believe that accountability is the ownership of outcomes and we believe success requires execution at scale. That's why, in order to ensure that we are ready for this big strategic shift that we're about to make our job, job number one is to scale accountability through the organization.

Tamsen Webster:

Everybody on board, great. Then you go to the next layer. It's almost like I think it was like Google earth, right? Like this is the big, like overview map that says we're going from point A to point B. Destination check. Everybody agree where we are. Where we are, Everybody agree about where we're going, Great. Now, once we've got the kind of general route mapped out, let's get more specific, more specific, more specific, so that it's only after you've checked that understanding and agreement at each of those levels can you start to do the equivalent of what we usually do right away, which is the equivalent of the turn by turn directions and in 500 feet, turn left.

Tamsen Webster:

But if I don't even know what continent I'm on, and I don't even know where I'm going.

Tamsen Webster:

Why would I? And so that's what this is all about. It's really about finding the simplest, strongest articulation of what is guiding your behaviors and thoughts right now. If you don't like it, we'll worry about that later, but it's like you have to start in order to build that trust we were talking about from that point of view of what people are actually experiencing, because anything else, any gap between their actual experience and that aspirational statement, is going to erode trust. Full stop.

Jeannie Walters:

And I think the thing that I see a lot in customer experience is that it's very tempting to just start with tactics right, to just start with like let's check this box and check this box, and then after a while everybody looks around and says why are we doing this? What is happening, what is this all connected to? And so I love the Google Earth example, because that's really what it's about. It's about figuring out who are we. What's most important?

Tamsen Webster:

Where are we, where are we going, yeah?

Jeannie Walters:

And then we can figure out the turn by turn so well. We have had so much fun and I hope that all of you listening out there have appreciated all the wisdom that Tamsen has brought to our discussion today. So thank you so much, Tamsen, for being here.

Tamsen Webster:

Oh my gosh, this was super fun.

Tamsen Webster:

I don't I don't often get to, like you know, go back to my, to my master's degree in like crisis communications and and so this is like super fun. I'm like, yay, this is super. But again, like it's so much of a background in marketing is, you know it's, it's, it's customer experience adjacent, and that's you know and I think so many of the things that you're talking about when you're talking about go straight to implementation. check all the boxes. You know I could see that, you know, back in the early parts of my career with the very same thing. People are like well, do we have a website? Can we make it green? Like, let's make it spin. And it's just like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Like, does it matter if it's green or spinning if the people we are trying to talk to would never understand or agree with it in the first place?

Jeannie Walters:

Right.

Tamsen Webster:

N o. So really to me, like that, it is like that is the, the, that is like my kind of called arms right, like um, to say, listen, we've just we need to start there. We need to start with what we're doing, why we're doing it that way and what we can stand a hundred percent behind as our justification for that. And it's not data, it's not data. It's a logical explanation of our beliefs.

Jeannie Walters:

Yes, well, I think you and I are going to lead the charge there. We've got, we're on the horse, we're, we're riding out. So well, thank you for being here and you know, I know we'll talk again very soon.

Tamsen Webster:

Sure we will will. I'm looking forward to it. All right, thanks so much, thank you.

Jeannie Walters:

And thank you for being here, for listening and for watching with us, and thank you for all the work you do as customer experience leaders. Now, for those of you who don't know, this is an unusual episode once a month that we do, but overall, I'm here to answer your questions, so please leave me a voicemail at askjeannievip and I will answer your question on the podcast. Keep learning, keep leading, and I will see you next time.

People on this episode

Head Shot

Jeannie Walters, CCXP

Host