Real Fun Wow Artist Daren Thomas Magee: Embracing Creativity and Surrendering to Synchronicity

In this Can We Start Over episode, Brit and Lindsey interview artist Daren Thomas Magee, also known as Real Fun Wow.

Daren is an independent artist who makes it all up as he goes. Having no formal education in the field he has found himself in, he isn't bound by many constraints.

This freedom allows him to explore many avenues where art and commerce meet. But most importantly, he just tries to have fun with it.

Magee discusses his journey to becoming an artist, which began with drawing tiny sketches on scraps of paper as a respite from his soul-sucking menial jobs.

He started posting his sketches on Instagram, and people started noticing and commissioning him for work. This was a turning point in his life, and he moved to Ojai, California, where he now lives and works as an artist.

The hosts also share their own synchronicity stories and the importance of surrendering to the universe's magic.

You can find Daren's work on his website, REAL FUN WOW, and follow him on Instagram @realfunwow for his unique blend of authentic humor and design.

If you want to learn how to embody JOY from within, Lindsey is hosting a live workshop on June 1st; space is limited, so grab your spot HERE today. 

Are you a podcaster who hates editing? Did you know that we offer full-service editing and production for podcasts? Britt has over 20 years of experience in audio engineering, has recorded thousands of bands, and mastered 100s of records. And now he implements all that knowledge to produce quality sound and engaging podcasts. Email Britt HERE for pricing and more information. 

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Transcript

Britt: 0:16

And welcome to another episode of Can We Start Over the podcast. My name is Brit, and I'm Lindsay. And we are, uh, two people who sold all our things and took our three kids on around the world trip to find a new home. That's great. And we're about halfway through that trip. As far as we know. It might keep going. Yeah. If you have a place for us to stay somewhere exotic, let me know and we'll extend our stay.

Lindsey: 0:40

Yeah. Pretty simply, less than a year ago, we were like, let's dip. We did. We knew we were done living in Texas and everything started happening really fast. And four months after we said, let's try this, let's dip. We were on a plane. Flying to a place. And then we've flown to lots of places. And now here we are,

Britt: 1:04

and I say konichiwa because that's how you say hello. Here in Japan, where we are now, which is where we are now, we are sitting cross-legged on a floor screens. Uh, it's, if you imagine a Japanese, uh, traditional room, that's exactly what it is. That's where, that's literally where we are. A sleeping room. Yeah. Yeah. There's a mat on the floor and that's about it. It's very simple. Yeah. Things are very, can be very simple here. It's nice. It is nice. Yeah. I think you were just saying that yesterday. Sometimes it kind of feels like people have a 1950s sensibility. A little

Lindsey: 1:39

bit. Yeah. There's a lot to explore there. Um, cuz there's probably s I mean, there's some emotional repression potentially. And also maybe not, I don't know. I don't know. But it does have this like, Simpler sensibility with also all this modern convenience mixed

Britt: 1:57

in. Yeah. In the fashion. Ooh. Yeah. Let me tell you, even the older people look so cool. So cool. And I say older. I mean older. There's like people in their eighties that are just walking up, dancing around saying, Hey, what's going on?

Lindsey: 2:11

Was he 86 or 81? I don't remember. 81. I think he just walked up to us. He looked so cool. We started talking to him and then he told us he was 81 and he seriously seemed like he was 65 or something. Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe 72. Don't get on an age calculator. I don't know. But he was cruising

Britt: 2:33

and I've been going to this cool reggae bar, hanging out with people. And then my last night there, they all started telling me their ages cuz it was my birthday. And they were like, well, I'm, I'm, you're only 41. I'm, I'm 60 and I'm 70. And like, what the fuck? How, like, these are just people you meet at the bar that you think are pretty close to your age, and they're like way older. They're, there's something in the, in the water here,

Lindsey: 2:59

for sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool. I'm still, I feel like I'm still jet lagged. We've been here a week and I'm still feeling a little tired. Also, I am feeling like I've been on a very long vacation after Hawaii with so amazing. And then also very vacation mode. And then we flew here and from Hawaii to Osaka where we are. It's 19 hours in the future. That we had no idea. Like we didn't look at the time difference. We didn't look at, we didn't know that it's tomorrow here. Wherever you're listening to this right now, I guarantee you I'm in tomorrow. That's wild. And I'm still wrapping my head around this. Unless

Britt: 3:44

you're randomly a Japanese person or someone in Japan listening

Lindsey: 3:48

to us or then you're in Australia or our existence Asia. Okay. That's very

Britt: 3:52

fair. I, I think we do have some Australian listeners. Yeah, for

Lindsey: 3:55

sure. So in that case, isn't tomorrow great? If you're listening from tomorrow, it's pretty rad. If you're listening from yesterday, welcome to Tomorrow Baby.

Britt: 4:09

And we learned that, uh, the hard way. We booked an extra day at our Airbnb cuz we didn't realize that we were traveling into the future.

Lindsey: 4:15

Yeah. So it gave us a lesson. Um, know where you're going, know the time, pay attention. Oh man, pay attention. It's just another lesson. That's what this whole trip is like stripping away all familiarity. Is that how you say that? And being like, all right, you gotta pay attention. Yeah, pay attention to everything cuz you don't know where things are and then you notice how quickly you can remember where things are. Like the 7-Eleven. Yeah. After a day you're like, oh there's the 7-Eleven. It's right there around the corner.

Britt: 4:52

Yeah. A few nights I went out to take pictures and tried to get lost as hard as I could and I just kept ending up back at our house in a a good way. It was fine cuz there's so much around here. You can literally walk out our front door and walk five minutes and within that five minutes, they're literally 200 restaurants. Yeah. I mean some of them can only fit four people. Most of them. Most of them can only fit. Yeah. Four people. It's amazing. Some of them are full sized restaurants, bars, all the bars have food here. They'll make, make food on a hot plate. Like it's, you can get anything anywhere here.

Lindsey: 5:26

Yeah, it's wild. It's really cool to just see all these tiny, tiny little carved out space with like two people working or one person that's the owner and they're just doing their thing. I think that's really special. Also, the 7-Eleven has full meals every, you can get a full meal out of convenience store, but also even out of a vending

Britt: 5:49

machine. Yeah. There's vending machines everywhere. Every corner there's vending machines. Some of'em have food. Most of'em have so many drinks. You have no, I mean, unless you speak Japanese, you have no clue what you're getting. Uh, and that's kind of nice too. Yeah. Try something new. Press that button. So, today is a special treat for all of you and for us, cuz we interviewed Darren Thomas McGee back when we were in Ojai, California, where he lives, uh, you may know him as real fun. Wow. On the internet, all the ways that you consume media. He's an artist. His art is badass. We've actually run into his art in different places on our trip. We saw it in Hawaii at a store. There was a bunch of really cool stuff and it's awesome. He talks about how he ended up in Ohio, how he became an artist once he got there, how he just kind of surrendered to how life was going and it turned out great for

Lindsey: 6:42

him. Yeah, it's a really cool, uh, reminder that you can just put it all on the line and start over and it can be really successful. It's also pretty

Britt: 6:53

wild how we ended up meeting him. We'll start the episode talking about that.

Lindsey: 6:57

I've been a big fan of real fun. Wow. And of Darren for several years, so it was. So exciting to get to sit down with him. And one of my only four shirts that I'm traveling with is a real fun well shirt and it brings me a lot of joy. You know how we can all have this tendency to find joy externally with things or relationships or experiences, and that's all fine and well, but true joy actually sparks from with it. And I've been on this joy journey for several years, but even traveling, it's becoming more and more. Knowing my self deeper and deeper helps me tap into the joy that's just there innately. So I am teaching a three hour live workshop on embodying joy using somatics, mindfulness and parts work. To find your own inner joy that is always there. The class is on June 1st. I'd love to see you there live. If you can't make it live, everyone gets a replay. And then also at the end, you'll get your own embodied Joy daily practice so you can cultivate it for yourself even after the workshop. Get the tickets at my website, sunnyland and co.com. You can find it in the link down below. I'd love to have you there.

Britt: 8:28

And also thank you so much for being here. It really means a lot that you're here listening to us talk. Go ahead and share this episode with your friends, with anyone you know who's an artist, or an inspiring artist, or anyone who wants to start over. Also, go over and give us a, like on Apple podcast, a rating or view like us on Instagram, on Facebook, like us in real life, if you'd like. All right, let's go ahead and do it. Let's go ahead and do it. All right, let's do it. Thanks for being here. You were actually on our, have been on our list too,

Lindsey: 9:04

really interview. So we have a story.

Daren: 9:06

I have a story to tell you. Did you not lead on to the fact that you knew me when we were at the playgrounds? Exactly. Oh my God. That's ridiculous. Just tell that story. No, please. I want to hear it.

Lindsey: 9:16

And that's that. I, I'm, we're, I'm a big fan of you. Thank you. And I had sent an email to just the general, at your website, Uhhuh, to see if you wanted to do a podcast, really interview while we were here. Yeah. Probably just went to junk mail or something. Okay. Or you probably read it

9:31

and

Daren: 9:31

you were like, fuck these people. Well, I, I'll, I'll expose myself a little bit. I have, I have an assistant, a virtual assistant who gets all of the emails and then she sort of decides what Darren might like, but I, I gotta talk to her and say, I love all podcasts, so. Okay, cool. We'll, love to have a talk to her about that. Yeah. And then

Lindsey: 9:46

what. Happened. Well, you were there and we were there with Val. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that's Darren. But then when we started TA it was like, I didn't wanna just be like, I'm a fan. Cuz then I thought it might, at the beginning it might, like we not, we might not have a conversation. Sure. And then everyone was just playing and having a good time. Yeah. So then I thought, well, we're just

Daren: 10:08

talking. Yeah. Well actually I do appreciate that, that you actually didn't say anything. Yeah.

Lindsey: 10:12

Yeah. At the end I, when I talked to Brit, I was like, I had just met Darren McGee and we just talked and it was great. And he was like, did you tell him? Did you ask him to be on the podcast? And I said, no. I guess I got nervous. But there's something about, a similar thing happened when we first met Pete and Val Uhhuh, where I was just like, oh, I like them. I'm meeting them.

Daren: 10:34

Right. And you don't want it to turn into like a transaction right away. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm just like, Well, I'll be honest, when I heard that vow was on the podcast, I was like, oh, I wanna be on a podcast. So, I mean, all of this was supposed to happen. Exactly, exactly. Yeah.

Britt: 10:47

Awesome. That was like right off the heels of us talking about all the synchronicities that have like happened

Daren: 10:52

since we got here. Oh, beautiful. I mean, this is a valley of synchronicities, so Yes. It's so true. Shit happens here. It's a, I dunno if you know about the, the late lines and the vortex and all the, no, I don't know either. So I shouldn't have been brought it up. Someone mentioned it up night. There's something going on here. Yeah, it keeps, yeah, no, Matt

Britt: 11:07

mentioned it last night. Yeah. Uh, it keeps coming up. Yeah. And it feels real and I, I don't know if I've mentioned this on the podcast, but we're go, we're going to Japan soon. Awesome. Yes. And I was a little bit nervous about it. Right. And then we got here and I was walking out here in the middle of nowhere. And I found a Japanese coin just on the ground in the middle of nowhere, and I was like, crazy. Yes. And then the next day I found another one. So I was like, God, I guess maybe, yeah, I guess this has to mean something. I don't know. You know, I'm

Daren: 11:40

fighting it the whole time. Yes, yes. But yeah, I, I'm very reluctant to acknowledge when the universe is actually like telling you something and be like, and sometimes it has to give you a second coin for it to be like, all right, all right. Yeah. Yeah. That's amazing. Was coin number two? Yeah, for sure. I,

Lindsey: 11:54

yeah, so that's our, my story saying thanks for being

Daren: 11:57

here. Yeah, totally. Totally. Oh my gosh. Well, yeah, when you, when we met and not, not that I'm like, so have you guys heard the term micro celebrity. No. So I would be technically a micro celebrity and I didn't give myself that title. Somebody told bestowed that upon me. Um, and I wear it with pride, but when, when I'm in this kind of area, and I, and I, you know, it's obviously more common here because of California and the connections that I have through my art that people would potentially recognize me. So the fact that like, I can meet somebody like you where I was like, oh, cool, I'm not anything to this person. We can be parents and human beings and things. So that was nice. And even though it was all turns out it was all fake, it was all a lie. It

Lindsey: 12:36

wasn't fake. It was just like, that's

Daren: 12:39

fine. No, it was strategic. Different interaction for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's so fucking

Lindsey: 12:43

sham. Yeah. I followed you. The whole thing did happen on its own.

Daren: 12:51

Um, yeah. Well now I'm wondering if I talked about, Myself in a way where you were like, yeah, I know all this stuff already.

Lindsey: 12:57

Only a little bit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know all this stuff

Daren: 13:00

already. Amazing. Well, I'm glad this happened in this, in this weird, nondescript home that you guys are in. It's like your drug dealers or something. Exactly. Exactly. On a witness protection here. Exactly

Britt: 13:12

right. I've been nervous to invite people over cuz it's like, I'm gonna get something. Weird's gonna get happen. Uhhuh. Somebody's gonna pull out a Bible or

Daren: 13:19

Yeah, you gun a podcast.

Lindsey: 13:22

We did actually want to talk to you about your Lord and Savior

Daren: 13:25

tonight. Click the lock door gets locked.

Lindsey: 13:31

But what we actually want to talk about is, well, I wanna know if you wanna talk about. How you ended up in Ojai.

Daren: 13:39

Sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, well, I mean, I talk about like synchronicities and in the, in the past year or so, I've been leaning more into like kind of the mystical beliefs and cuz it's a lot more fun and it's a lot more, it feels a lot better to believe that there's magic and that the universe conspires in your favor. And like, I had a much more cynical viewpoint for many, many years in my life and it kind of kept me, you know, from not progressing in a lot of ways, mainly spiritually. But also you find once you kind of lean into the spiritual side of things, magic happens and then everything else opens. The universe decides that you're ready to receive the abundance. And, and if you stay in the gratitude, it's just like, it's a lot and, and it's, it takes also a level of like your own self-worth to get there as well. To say, I deserve this and that this is something that I sh I observe. So OHI was very much this kind of manifestation of that where, um, living up in the bay and before that, up in Washington and before that I lived in. New York and Texas and just kind of all manners of living, but by no means was it ever a feeling of like, this is the life I wanna live. Mm-hmm. It was just kind of like one shitty situation to the next and nothing fulfilling, nothing creatively based. When I've, when I've kind of. Been suppressing this creative element of my life for a long time. Finally, getting down to Ojai was really at the turning point of where I was finally completely fed up with doing just menial jobs for my entire adult life. I did, the last job I had was here in town, but that was more kind of intentional. I wanted to get a job at this bar and to meet people and to network. But before that, when I lived in San Francisco, I was doing, um, Instacart and Task Rabbit, which I mean, god bless people who can do that and make a living doing it, but it was the most soul sucking situation and, and needlessly stressful to be like at Whole Foods and like panicking because they don't have rido. And I'm trying to call the customer and be like, can I replace, like, can I get a replace? And just like some of the worst, just demeaning situations of like bringing groceries to somebody and them having like, no appreciation for that. And that led me from doing those jobs. I, I just was like, I can't, I, I have to do something else, but not, I need to do something else as a career. I just need to do something else outside of this. And so one day kind of just. Like any other, I came home and, and started to just draw these tiny like very tiny little drawings cuz I was at that point where I'm like, I'm not gonna buy a big cam. Like, I'm not like big canvas. I'm gonna do this big thing. It was like very humble and very still. I kept myself in this place where maybe I don't deserve this much space in this big of a canvas, right? So I was like literally drawing in these tiny little scrap pieces of paper. Just little weird things. Like I would draw like little campers and things that I, pictures I saw online, just kind of meaningless stuff and some really like goofy, funny shit. So I was like kind of expressing that kind of level of, of humor in it. But anyway, it was just basically became this respite from my job where I'd spent all day delivering groceries, or some days I was like putting together IKEA furniture just all day just crank, cranking an out wrench, just like, I hate this, I hate my life. So coming home and escaping to this little tiny piece of paper and drawing these little things was just like, it was the best. And then I just started posting those on Instagram. And this was like when I had. You know, friends and family following and, and I wasn't an artist on Instagram, I was between pictures of my dog. It was pictures of random little things I was drawing. But then it started getting people to see that and see, oh, Darren's drawing. Um, that's cool. Like I need a record cover. Maybe Darren will draw it in these kind of like, I felt like it was this, if you build it, they will come sort of situation where you let the universe know like, Hey, I'm doing this thing now. And, and fortunately like we have social media to be this like real beacon for like, here's the thing I'm doing in life, right? And we all kind of consume each other's lives and we see what we're up to, whatever we choose to share. And so that for me was just the, the platform and still is the platform that allowed me to share with the world, but also have this affirming situation where like, hey, look at Arta making, Hey, it's getting likes. And like I go back to these early posts where it's like 52 likes was like, holy shit. That's amazing. That's incredible. And so that was, that that sort of started to snowball and, and at the point, um, we were. Actually, like, just kind of all me and my, my ex-partner at the time were, were fed up with the Bay and we were really looking for something like Ojai without knowing Ojai existed. We were considering kind of northern California, not really like, where are we gonna go? And we just happened to have this happened stance synchronistic meeting with this beautiful, tall Australian couple in Joshua Tree who live in Ojai. And I'd like, what is Ojai? I lived in California for like 10 years at that point, on and off, and I'd never heard of Ojai. And they said, stop by on your way back up from Joshua Tree and visit. And we visited it. And I really like and know I'm it's joke, but I, I feel like Ojai just suddenly just materialized, like right when I needed. And we pulled in and it was like loading as we were coming and it was becoming a real thing. And it was just really a short amount of time between, uh, meeting those people, then letting us stay with them for a couple days and then going up to the bay like two weeks later and getting all of our stuff and like moving it down here. Wow. And like, this is it. And it was an immediate reduction of, of all the superfluous that existed living in the bay or just. Just fighting for resources, parking, and just all the things that are just like come with living in a big city to coming down here and like just pulling up to our apartment. And like we had a literal like white picket fence in front of our apartment. And I was just like, just that. Just like pulling up right in front and getting out and all the time and energy and mental, just caloric expenditure you take for parking that's been freed up. And then on top of that, all the many other things. And then at that point there was illustration, work was still coming in and it was just like real, like really another person wants a random thing, a commission and all these things. And it just kept happening and happening and I followed it. And the last job I said like I had here was, uh, Bartending and I was just to meet people. I was the worst bartender you've ever seen in your entire life. Just hated it. I just didn't care. Um, but I really just wanted to meet people and it worked. And so then that was it. And that was like giving away shifts slowly to the point where I no longer work there and just kind of like let, like un like let go of the hand that I was holding. That was a stable job. Mm-hmm. And then just like stepped into this kind of, who knows what's gonna happen next. And it's been six years now. That's amazing. I amazing. I've been a full-time artist that entire time. There's never been any questioning of like, shit, was this the right thing? Or any really even signs that like, I don't think this is gonna work out. It's just been the steady climb of success. So it's amazing. And I, I attribute so much of that to Ojai. Yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. Mm-hmm. It's a magical place. It really is. Yeah. Yeah,

Britt: 19:57

yeah. It really is. So were you making art, were you making art before that? Just not seriously pursuing it? No. You just, that's

Daren: 20:04

just when you started mega, that was it. Yeah. I mean, like I drew as a kid and, and would always kind of find as a child, like respite and, and, and, Diving into a piece of paper, but never really like taking it seriously. I had a small background in high school in graphic design. I got lucky enough to go to this vocational school in 11th and 12th grade, so I learned like Illustrator and Photoshop, like the very basic kind of principles of it. And then throughout the years after that, I always had like hacked versions of those programs. Yeah. You know, and you'd be able to get those. And so I could be a guy who could like put together a flyer for you if you wanted, or like kind of always having that. Like, I love branding, I love logos, I love like having an idea and then, and then having to do all the elements in order to like, kind of make that a real thing. And so I always kind of had a pen for that, but never really followed it at all. And so it was just like denying my own creative impulse because I needed to make a living. Right. And also because it was a lot of years spent like drinking and just like fucking off and not, do not be taking anything seriously enough where you would get a, a, a creative career. So Yeah. I mean, right outta high school where I completely excelled, I crushed 11th and 12th grade coming out of like, Junior and, and sophomore or freshman and sophomore of like just an absolute failure, you know, academically. And then suddenly this world opens up where I go to visit this vocational school and they have like a whole bank of brand new McIntosh computers and like, just the way that we think kids just put in the general academic sense are gonna excel like through social studies and math and all these very basic things. And then to get a thing of like, hey, what about, you know, kind of a creative thing and you know, then just suddenly excelling in that. But after that it was like, college was never on offer. It wasn't never really, I think my parents probably didn't even want me to mention college cuz it just would've been too, you know, expensive. And so I just was like, all right, well college isn't a thing. And so right outta high school it was like, yeah, remember how awesome you were doing in high school? Well that's over here's, here's, here's a bottle of wine. Get get to it. So, yeah. Right. Yeah. So it was a long stretch from high school to now, which is my twenties and through probably like my mid thirties where I was just like nothing. Yeah. Just

Lindsey: 22:07

kind of. Yeah.

Daren: 22:09

Yeah. Living, living. Exactly. Like not well, not, I don't wanna say not. No. And it was like a lot of scarcity mentality. And it was like, um, feeling like, uh, I don't know. There was just never, there was never dreams. There was never really any aspirations. And, and to the credit of my, my ex-partner, uh, they were very, um, kind of insistent that we, that we that, that we kind of pull, get out of this. And I was always the one that just was like, kind of like, no, there's not just really reluctant to do that. And having, having a partner that was just really firm about it, but we both, neither of us knew what that was or how to do that or anything. We don't come from backgrounds of successful people. There's no blueprint. So when you're like, when you have a draw to it, but you don't know which way to go, it's not that simple. Right.

Britt: 22:54

I feel like you, we were in similar situations as well. Yeah.

Daren: 22:58

It's there, but you don't know how to do it. Right? Yeah,

Britt: 23:01

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then at some point it's just like, fuck it, let's figure this out. Yes,

Daren: 23:06

exactly right.

Britt: 23:07

Yeah. Um, so this is kind of jumping ahead, but you have a podcast mm-hmm. As well. Mm-hmm. Um, and I know that this is a, like a, a. To totally. Uh, I just wanna know this, you do the intro on your podcast, intro Music, Uhhuh. Were you a musician before that? No. That is just something cool you came up with.

Daren: 23:25

Yeah, I was like, I go running a lot and that'll be often when I have like, oh cool, I got that. Like, so I do the, you know, again, with that idea of like, I wa I have, have an idea for something, I kind of reverse engineer and go, okay, well we need a theme song. We need album, we need cover art. Like, and I love that shit. Like, I love the, like I could have done all of that and then never done the podcast and just been so happy with the cover art and the theme song and the intro. Cause I made an intro video for it. Yeah, that's on YouTube and like the whole thing that, like all the elements that you have to have the cohesion to make it look like it's one product and all these things. So I really, really love that. And then, yeah, the theme song I think was very much, uh, it was just like, Just, yeah, I don't know how that stuff happens. Yeah, because like, how does, yeah, how does music happen for people? Like how does, how would you say a song ever a song would come to you? You know? So. Yeah. Totally. Yeah. That's, uh, I spent

Britt: 24:11

a lot of time in the, uh, you know, working at a restaurant and then running to the bathroom and humming

Daren: 24:14

something into my phone. Yes, totally. And it, it's when you're in the, like, restaurant mode or like when I'm running or do, when you're, when you're occupying yourself with something that has nothing to do with the creativity, that's often when that stuff comes. Right. Cause I think maybe you're. You're like, oh, maybe I don't act like I, this is miserable in this restaurant right now. Or this is miserable, this run. And so your mind allows itself to kind of wander and Yeah,

Britt: 24:34

it's like that magic eye art to where like, you don't actually see it until you give up. I was

Daren: 24:38

never able to see that, by the way. Oh, really? Just really frustrated with that. Yeah. Maybe I could get another shot. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So that, um, I guess, well, I know I should, I should take that back a little bit back. So when I was, uh, in my early twenties, I was in a hip hop group with some friends, which, which does come as a surprise, uh, rightfully so. I don't look like I'd be in a hip hop group. Um, but yeah, that was, that actually was like, was really fun and, and was a short but, but pretty momentous time in my life where I was engaging myself creatively. Uh, Purely for the creativity, like, and it was never like we're gonna become hit, whatever, record makers, whatever, however people are successful in music anymore. But it was purely for the craft, purely for hanging out with friends and being like creative. And so that was maybe some inkling. I think I probably, if I had set myself to any one thing, I feel like I could have done really well. But it just was like, all right, we did the music thing, we're done with that. And like, there's often a lot of moving happening. So I'd get into something with somebody or any sort of project, and then I just, I was just kind of transient for a really long time. And so that never, you can never really set your roots, never have a studio or do anything where you're, and that's, again, ojas the longest place I've ever lived in my entire life. So like, wow. It's like, okay, settle in, unpack everything. Like we'd always be in these positions where it's like, let's. We're gonna be outta here in like three months. No point in getting too cozy or anything, you know? Sure. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So that I think is, is pretty vital to, at least for me is, is the groundedness and knowing like you're not halfway out the door at all times. Yeah.

Lindsey: 26:11

Right. Yeah. Right. That's like our opposite life right now is it's completely different. Well, at least we lived in the same house for 10 years and now we're every month

Daren: 26:21

moving somewhere else. Yeah. But I mean, what a, I mean, what a conscious decision that you guys are doing it with. Like, for me it was just such a, like, so, so it's so scarcity minded in that, in that like feeling like you're, you've ran out of options in this place, or it's not the thing, it's the, the place is wrong or as opposed to like, really what I've done over the past few years is like doing much more internal, like looking and seeing what is the, where is the thing that drives the, the need to, to, to whatever, to get the fuck outta here at any point. Like it's, it's a, comes with an inner stillness to be able to just like, be comfortable. Some sort of routine and yeah, predictability. And that's really like good for your nervous system as well. It's so good for

Lindsey: 27:00

your nervous system. Yes. Yeah. And you are ave a seeming like, it seems to me that you're a very self-aware person and someone who's really interested in. Yeah. Like your inner knowing. Yeah. It's d it's, it's like personal, you could call it personal development, but that sounds almost like Tony Robbins or something. Right, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But it's, it's like the inner knowing. So when did you start that journey? Was that

Daren: 27:26

here or, um, that was actually like, just before we moved down here, and I can point to like, pretty much a, an exact date was when we first did Ayahuasca. Okay. So that was like really substantial. We had done, my ex-partner and I were kind of like, we'd casually do psilocybin or LSD and have these like, beautiful, amazing trips and that really kind of was like kicking off my interest in like what the potential was there. And then I'd been hearing about Ayahuasca for a while and was really like desperate to get to it. And it's on offer. A lot in California, but especially in the Bay. And my partner in their knowing was just like kind of turning down opportunities. And I was like, what are you doing? This is our chance. And, and you know, to their credit was like, it was really, uh, an intuit intuition that led us ultimately to the group that we sat with for a year. We, we sat every month for a year, so we, we garnered like two dozen ayahuasca ceremonies within a year, which is like a substantial amount of work to do. Oh yeah. Uhhuh. Yeah. And so that was like really, I mean, that went from, from, you can even see it in my art when I was doing those little drawings at my table of little RVs and things like that to like total medicine art. Were much more ethereal and kind of inspired by the unknown and, and just all the things that, the themes that still kind of show up in my work, that that was just cracked open and it, and it was, it really turned me from. What was pretty much an agnostic but leaning more towards atheism, which is so wild to even think about like that I ever could be like, there's nothing, there's nothing. Right. To the first time I drank Ayahuasca, when it finally kicked in, I was like, oh, there's something, there's something. There's, there's something. And it's beautiful and it's amazing. Yeah. So, so that was really, that really felt like that was the start and then, um, yeah. Did a lot of that work. And in, in the past year, um, trying to find, cuz you know, as a parent you unfortunately can't do psychedelics as much as you want cuz it's like, it's a laborious process and it requires a lot. Um, so now having started a meditation practice at the end of last year, which I've committed to and haven't missed a day in, in five months, twice a day, I've meditated for five months. And that's been been substantial and that's actually helped with my psychedelic experiences because there's now a level of like groundedness and kind of already skirting that. Line that you're going into when you go into the, to the medicine space. And so it's nice to like be able to pull any of that, to pull any of those together where they're not just this like thing that happens only when you take drugs, so. Right, right. Yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, it's been amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And I never would've identified as spiritual. And now I'm like, I proudly proclaim that. Yeah. And it's nice to have an identity. I know that's like atheism is this like weird anti identity where you're like, what are you claiming here? You're claiming that there's nothing and you're like, there's like some kind of like, like real like vigilant like pride to say like I know there's nothing. Like what a weird knowing of not knowing like, right. Kind of. Yeah. It's kinda antithetical how, how can you know this? And there's also this kind of like surrender element for me in spiritualism where there's so much like, and it's weird cuz I used the atheism. Atheism came from, and the cynicism came from growing up where my mom was not like trying too hard to push religion, but very much like would've tried to include us as me and my brother. And it always felt like strange and it just didn't feel natural. And so there was this like, this kind of. Anarchy against that, rebellion against that. But now as I, as I get more into spiritualism and I talk to my mom, I'm like, man, there's so much commonality between spiritualism and religion. It's just, you know, religion has like, kind of, its mascots and its hierarchy and it's more structured. Where spiritualism to me feels like whatever you can figure out about yourself, you're not prescribed in any of these like things that you have to abide by or anything like that. But the idea of surrender for me is so much like letting Jesus take the wheel. You know, like, ah, it's up to Jesus. And which always will let be. Like, that sounds sounded so disempowering to me. And now I'm like, yeah, man, let Jesus take the wheel. Right? Because none of this, we have no control over any of this, and it's so liberating to feel that way. Yeah. Uh,

Lindsey: 31:24

yeah. I fully align with all of that. That's so true. When I read, like last year I read, um, the Surrender Experiment. Oh, I don't know that book. It's after

Daren: 31:33

Untethered. Have you ever read Untethered song? I'm reading Untethered Solar, so on my

Lindsey: 31:36

nightstand. Yeah. Yeah. So good. Well, the Surrender Experiment Uhhuh is, is like his. Life in practice. Oh, amazing. Okay, cool. Amazing. Awesome. And when I read that, I was like, I gotta get the fuck outta here. I mean, I was already like on this journey, but I was like, exactly. Let Jesus think. Just take the wheel or whatever it is. Yep. And let's just throw it all up and see what happens.

Daren: 31:57

And you guys are doing that in spades. It's amazing. Yes, yes. Yeah.

Lindsey: 32:01

So how does your work, your inner work, reflect in your creativity? You have like a very distinct creative style. Well, thank you. And also it like is not all the same. There's a lot of freedom in there, right? Right.

Daren: 32:20

So, Well, I think what it's, it, what it used to be like when I first got started and it was, it was like real fun. Wow. Was like the brand, which never was like the intention to be like, I'm gonna start a brand called real fun. Wow. It just became a handle and then it was like, oh, that's a, you know, good website and ultimately became a brand. But under that was, was the work and the, the illustrations and which was primarily what, it was just illustrations that I, that I found this kind of like, I don't know, I just, I was on this like, Prolific amount of creating for, for a couple of years where I created like over a thousand pieces that still, some of it gets like licensed from, like stuff I made years ago where I was just on this, like, I think it was when I was doing a lot of ayahuasca where just like it was pouring outta me and, and I had switched from drawing by hand from the start and then I switched to digital. And so I was able to even just like, the output was even greater and it just was pouring outta me and I was just collecting it all and, and posting it and then it, now it lives as this like kind of curated collection of, of it all. And that was like all I really cared about was just creating as much work as I could and it felt really good. And then at some point I think I really wanted to, uh, I was really firmly identifying as an illustrator. Like when people ask what I did, I'm like, I'm an illustrator. And I was like, cuz that sounds so cool. And people are like, well what does that mean? I'm like, I just draw stuff. Like, it was like, it's simple, you know? I just draw stuff for people, which felt really cool. And then I, and then I was doing kind of less of that and moving more towards just being creative in general. And so then I. Kind of had this moment where I was like, wait a second, I'm not just an illustrator, I'm an artist. Which always felt like such a pretentious label to to call yourself that. I mean, it's fine if somebody calls me an artist, but to now like proudly identify as an artist. And so within that I'm expressive and I do that in many forms. And, and a lot of it now is like, it's real fun. Wow. Is still very much there. But Darren Thomas McGee of real fun Wow. Is now like a very much a a, a presence in the, in the thing in the, in the, the thing. Yeah. And so now I'm like much more me forward and, and I. Feel really comfortable, just kind of expressing whatever's on the top of my mind. And I mean, very much the top podcast, which I think is ridiculous. I'm not gonna plug my podcast cause it's the most ridiculous thing. And I can see how it's Okay. I'm gonna plug it for you. Yeah, we're gonna talk about it. Don't worry. It's, it's a pure, it's purely that. And like I go in, oftentimes I'll, like, it'll be the end of the week and I'm like, shit, I haven't done an episode. I need to do it for tomorrow. And I'll go on and I'll turn the mic on and I'll start talking and I'll be like, oh, we're talking about this topic today. And so it's like, it's very, very improv. Um, and so really like getting comfortable with the intuitive level of like, I can talk and I think what I'm gonna say has some value and that really that trust and, and also like being humble about it too. Like I. Most of my fr I say all my friends, even, uh, like people very close in my life don't listen to my podcast. And I'm totally fine with that. I'm like, you consume enough of me that you don't need to listen to me talk for a half an hour. But then I do get reflections from people who write to me that are just the most kind, like saying that they, they really, you know, resonated with these things where I'm like, what did I even say last week? That you're resonating with? Yeah. Yeah. And so that keeps it going. For sure. And so to, I guess to answer your question, it's like, it is that, it's like me being, uh, a representation of it where it was weird cuz it was like, oh it's, hey, it's real fun. Wow. And I'm like, hi, I'm Darren. You know, cuz like there wasn't even the Darren of that. And I think strategically, which wasn't intentional, if I came outta the gate with, with my art as Darren Thomas McGee, I almost feel like it wouldn't, it wouldn't have. Been the same thing. Right? So like real fun. Wow. Being this thing is like it's a brand, it suddenly became a brand where really it's me and my, my employee Kevin, and my assistant Danielle, who I've never even met, she's my virtual assistant. She lives in New Mexico. It's like, it's a small team. Mm-hmm. And really at the core of it, it's like me doing all the creative and everything that. Gets outputted, but when people are new to my, to my brand, they assume it's a thing. You know, it's like a, you got a whole team and all this shit, right? And I'm like, no, I'm the like one answering when you message me on Shopify. Like, Hey, where's my order? That's Darren like on his phone writing to you and much just people so surprised sometimes. So I don't know. It's cool and I like it that way and I don't really feel like I need to like move out of it and be like to, to give away real fun. Wow. Or to whatever. It's just, it's at a manageable rate where I'm like kind of just making it up as I go. So. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well you

Lindsey: 36:25

can really see. At least in your content or whatever, you can see that it's extremely authentic. Okay, good. And there's like this real love that's very, it's personal. Yeah. Like you talk about personal

Daren: 36:39

things. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody started

Britt: 36:41

the first episode, by the way. I'm not talking. Oh, okay. Yeah. Sorry about the podcast. I wanna get real personal. Let's, uh,

Daren: 36:47

don't talk. Well, you know, that was like the most, that, that was actually the impetus to do the show where I was like, at a point where, so a spoiler alert. I, on the first episode I talk about having, Bought a male prostate stimulator and which great. Yeah. Yeah, exactly right. And it's a topic that I think that like, I like finding those areas of humanity where one person would be like, Ooh, that's a little uncomfortable. And another person would be like, holy shit, you're talking about this. And so like, anywhere you can find that kind of division of like making people squirm and making people like, thank God somebody finally said it. Cause I bought one too. You know? And so that, like, that level of, of candor is what I really try to, to, to bring out. And it's not inauthentic. It's like me being really, really real to the point where people are like, how can you even do that? And I'm like, I don't know how I couldn't buy a stim anal stimulator and not talk about it. Like it's almost, that's impossible. Like that would be, that would feel the, that would feel wrong to not talk about that. Right. Right, right. Yeah.

Britt: 37:41

And that's what drew me to the podcast is just how relatable

Daren: 37:45

it all is. Oh, good, good. Yeah. You're just sitting there

Britt: 37:46

talking and I, and it reminds me of like, Me sitting there, sitting there thinking these thoughts like, oh, I could post this on Facebook and then be like, why would I do that? Yeah. Nobody's like lit, you know? No one's reading this and there's no like, context to it. Yes. But it is something I always wanted to do. Uhhuh, you know, Uhhuh, but then, then

Daren: 38:02

just never did Uhhuh. I mean, there's a big thing about this world that we're living in now. We're like, we're literally creating content right now. Like we're, we've become, like, where we used to be growing up, we were largely like consumers of things. And there were big, there was like a limited number of studios that produced the things and the record labels that we listened to. Like all these things that were, uh, very established systems that we got our content from and we happily consumed it. And now we're still consuming, but we're also creators. And that's like a wild flip on this. And, and I think part of it for me was that, It's really important that I still be enjoying the process. So like when Instagram switched to, uh, or started prioritizing reels because they were, you know, getting killed by TikTok and they're like, all right, we're switching to reels now. Everyone, everyone including me, was just like, this is fucking horrible. We love Instagram cuz it's photos and it's what it was. And, and still people, uh, are contentious about it. And then I was very much like, well, I'm not doing this. Like, how would I even do this? I'm a, I'm a like, I'm a 2D artist. Like all these things and, and then being really like kind of. Bemoaning it and, and curmudgeony about it. So then I took that energy of like, I don't like this. I hate that we have to do this. That's the energy I'm gonna put towards this. I'm gonna do this sardonic, sarcastic version of a reel, making fun of it, and being really tongue in cheek about it. And then that became like, whoa, this is really actually like what my brand voice is. And I've been saying it all along in the captions, but now I get to do video of it. And I really like doing video. I really like acting and I really like, and so suddenly, like the, the way that this platform Instagram has been so, uh, it's, it's driven, it's steered the, my artistic direction. I mean, the fact that all pretty much 95% of my art is square is because you only used to be able to post squares. And when you had to post the thing where you had to like crop it with the black things, I'm like, Ugh, I can't, aesthetically I can't do that. Like, I, like, I still curate my feed very consciously. Like, so if someone's new, I want them to like be able to look at my feed from a bird's eye view and get a, a, at least a color sense or you know, like all the cohesion around that. And so I'm very conscious about that. And so, All my art became square and, and it still kind of is cuz I'm just in that, and even when you, you can do like, you know, different format within Instagram, but then it still crops it into a square. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, I don't like the way it's cropped. And so if I do it, this is maybe not interesting to anybody, but if I do like an 11 by 14, I won't post the 11 by 14 in the feed. I'll take a picture of me holding the 11 by 14 Mm. So it still can be in the square so the image isn't cropped. Yeah. Like, so these are the little kind of the nuances of like how I really utilize the tool of Instagram to my advantage and, and stay within, like, what are we doing right now? Okay. Adapt to this and like utilize this. And, and I mean it's just, it's really like I can't, I, I'm not where I am. You guys aren't talking to me if Instagram doesn't exist, like Exactly. It's that's it. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.

Lindsey: 40:45

And so many people aren't talking to anybody. Yes. If Instagram doesn't exist. Right, exactly. And there is a space to criticize it or to whatever or to be like, yeah, it's taking over our lives. Yes, for sure. And we can use it as this like really fucking cool tool. Exactly. Something switched for me in the last year where I was like, oh, this is like, this is an amazing tool. Mm-hmm. That if I have an issue with something, it's really just some fear of showing up on a video or you know, like, oh, I don't wanna do a video. Well, okay, let me just do it. Yes, for sure. And get, get in the practice

41:23

of

Daren: 41:24

feeling awkward. There's Right. And, and I think it is interesting cuz it is forcing, which is maybe unfair, but it's forcing people who are small businesses and brands to suddenly have a skillset that they never trained for or had before. And so that is like, and I can say it's unfair because, you know, all right, well then figure out a way to, to, you know, get, get it, get your, your, um, message out there in another way. But it's fascinating to me that it's suddenly like, okay, now you are responsible for all of your marketing and everything where you used to be. Everything. Like I got in, in the good days when it was like you could organically garner a following through, through just chronological feed. It was like, I went back in my day, the feed was chronological and you got it. You know, like these things that are so antiquated now, but that I really feel like I, I got it in at the good time. Um, but now it's like, and I'm not, it's just insane how much content, like I'm, you know, I want people to stop and look at mine and be like, Darren, look at Darren did. But I also am one to just totally flip past someone who I'm like really close with and be like, Nope, that didn't get me. Like the micro, the microsecond that you have to get somebody's attention. And you just also, like, I've had to recognize like, it's no bearing on how good or bad your content is. Cuz when someone is just throwing a bucket of content at you, how can you, you know, discern all that? And, and I think that, that we're definitely in like a, we have a, um, a sub, um, Quantity over quality issue right now. Right. And we're fine with just kind of just like, just beaming it all into our faces. Like I, I need to go to, I haven't been to a museum in forever and just stood in front of like one painting. Yeah. And just been like, okay, this is one painting here. You know, like, I think, I don't know, without like taking a picture of it. Exactly. Yes. Selfie, Mona Lisa. Right.

Lindsey: 43:09

So in that, how do you feel like you stay creatively free? Within

Daren: 43:19

using these tools? Well, like the confines that are Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, I mean, like, again, so I feel like the fact that we have these avenues of, of a podcast or reels or like, other than maybe it is like it was actually better for me that we broke out of the square sta static photo, and then it allowed me to become creative in a way that I didn't even realize I had. Like I really love conceiving of, of ways to market my products in really clever quirky ways. And again, that kind of like that, that makes my brand more substantial because when you're, you know, if you're marketing is clever enough, people remember the brand and then come back to it and all that kind of stuff. And so I think it probably, for me it just allows, it actually allows for more creative expression than it is limiting because it was, um, now we can do everything, you can do whatever you want and there's no, uh, there's no real limitation on how you can. Express yourself. Um, I think that's the best way to put it. Yeah. I mean, and so like, but then there is this kind of double edged sword where I think about the potential demise of Instagram. Like let's say it leaves tomorrow, like right. I try and I don't do a good job, but you know, there's any good marketer will say like, get people's email. I have a good mar marketing thing, but, you know, it's funny and, and I could be just absolutely terrible at mailing lists, but I don't actually see that in a way that shows me that that's actually true. Cause I have, I have like 30,000 people on my mailing list, which, which is really substantial. It's like a good number. And then you check the percentage of people that actually open those emails. It's like 1% or something like that. Or, you know, maybe a little bit higher, but so, How often are you? I mean, people are on Instagram every day, like in it, in it, in it. And so, I mean, still does really seem like shit. This is the thing. But I guess, and I don't know, I don't know if things just like, like I don't think Instagram could just like turn off tomorrow. It becomes slowly more like passe and people leave and go to another platform and stuff. I don't know, like, so, right. So I do kind of, not that I worry about that, but I go, that's a very real possibility. And I also wonder if my brand could suddenly would, would be, you know, how it could hang on through word of mouth or whatever it is. So it's a lot of reliance. And I, and I know that a lot of small businesses, that's, they have all their chips in Instagram. Mm-hmm. What else are you gonna do? You know? Right, right, right. And if you're like, oh, go move your brand over to TikTok now, you gotta be good at making videos. At least with Instagram you can still put up like stories where static images, there's just other ways to engage. But TikTok, that's a whole beast of, of a different thing for me. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lindsey: 45:49

And. Uh, but I do think, but TikTok has this like really raw element. Yeah. And I don't really have much experience with TikTok other than just kind of looking at it, but it does kind of seem more like people are just like, let's just put whatever the hell on. That's

Daren: 46:03

true there. That's true. That's true for sure. But also at the same time, you are still just like comp, like, I mean the flick of a finger can decide whether or not anybody gives a shit about what you're doing. You could produce cuz people are producing like, not like intense. You know, intensely high produced things, but they'll put, you could tell they've put effort in with lighting and like, you know, and then I'm like, whoop, nope, sorry. Slip right fast. And I'm like, sorry, bud. Yeah. So I don't know. I mean, it's also like comes back to like, what are we trying to do here? Like, and that's been a big question for me. Like, what am I trying to do? And a big part of it is I'm trying to make money. I'm trying to, I wanna buy a house. I wanna have a house for my child. Like I want to have stability, I want to build wealth. I wanna like have that level of, of like, I worked really hard. I want to, I, for the first time this year, at the end of last year, I finally, for the first time, funded my retirement. I put the first amount of money into retirement where I was like, damn, I just gave that to like old Darren. Like, you know, like that, that was huge for me. Like, that felt like, holy shit, I just kind of, I just kind of changed my, my future right there. And never, I didn't come from any of that or weren't anybody prioritizing like, you should get an IRA or like whatever. All that shit that I still don't understand. And so I fortunately got a new accountant who was like, Hey, we need to do this like right away. And so that felt amazing. And so really to me, I'm at this point where, I'm still, I'm in this kind of like groove of like creativity where I feel like, I'm like, yeah, I kind of, I'm good at what I do and I can do it consistently. And I could probably keep doing it forever. But I am sort of seeing like, all right, what's the, what's gonna be the next thing? Cause I'm gonna be 40 in a couple weeks. And, and I really see that as like, I mean, it literally is the start of a new decade. So like, all right, what is 40 gonna look like? And there's a, um, I dunno if I was talking to you about it, but it's the, in your twenties, in your twenties you're doing, in your thirties, you're, oh, fucking shit. Looked it up anyway, what the forties is, is you're enjoying it. So it's basically like getting to a point where you've sort of hopefully set some level of stability and at your forties you're getting, not coast, but like enjoy some of the fruits of your labors, of your twenties learning and ways of making mistakes and all that stuff. So I don't know what that looks like. I really don't. I do have a, this thing called Project 45 that I thought of a long time ago, or not that long ago, but in this past year where by 45 I want to be off social media. Like, okay, I want to. Have left it behind and five years isn't a super long time, but it's also enough to like, have, make some sort of change where, you know, I don't wanna like delete my social medias, but I want it to be potentially managed by somebody. I can, I'm happily still creating content, but just passing it off and like not actually interfacing it with it. Cuz I'm, I have like a really unhealthy relationship of just like that kind of like feedback loop of like, Hey, look at that thing I just posted 10 minutes ago. Let's see how well it's doing. And still getting validation from that that I noticed is like, not entirely, um, like I don't need that. But I love it. I love it. I'm not gonna deny that, you know, it makes me feel good, the thing I did and also the fact that my work, my work and my art. Are intrinsically tied to my livelihood. Like I don't make art on the side and then go to this stable job where I can guarantee a paycheck. Like if my shit isn't good, I don't eat. So it's right. It's a lot of pressure as an artist to get to a full-time artist cuz you're like, this is my soul expression and no one's buying it. Nobody likes me. You know? You're like, no, it's not true. It's the economy's bad right now. Like all these things that you try to have to remember, like it's got nothing to do with you. It's a lot of other factors that play into it, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Lindsey: 49:17

That takes us, like, it feels like it takes us all the way back to surrender. Mm-hmm. And how do you feel like you can surrender to just be like, all right, what's next

Daren: 49:28

if, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and it has to be that cuz cuz to try to know what's next, that's not possible. I mean, you can set up a plan or try to like work towards something, but that's never been me. I've been very much like, like a theme song will pop in my head. It's not like I spent months laboring. I need this theme song. I'm like, oh, oh there it is. You know? And I get it. So it's been kind of, it's pretty, been pretty easy for me I would say. And so that I think, I can continue on that. I think there's a certain level of intuition that I continued to refine and, and taking care of myself physically and mentally will allow for more continued clarity and this kind of channeling sort of situation in these ways that you just become a channel for these muses that are up in the, I dunno if you guys have read the Rick Rubin book, the Creative Way. Not yet. It's great. It's really, really approachable and it's just like short chapters, like 75 of'em and just kind of in that, I mean, Rick Rubin very much is, he's the channel for all this kind of, he's totally speaks about not being in, like having no credentials, no skills, nothing. He's just a vessel that just allows for, for this stuff to come through. And so I think that there's something really beautiful about that in the surrender idea of. Um, I'm not gonna try and I'm not gonna really try here. You know what I mean? Like without trying to the point where you can fail or just staying open to whatever the possibilities are. Yeah. It's a tough concept to kind of grasp. Yeah, yeah,

Lindsey: 50:45

yeah, yeah. Say like, I'm not gonna do anything. Keeping the channel clear. Mm-hmm. I mean, that's why you have to have like all the practices. Yes. Or yes. Yeah. And some kind of spiritual connection in some

Daren: 50:57

way, you know? Yeah. And I think you, when you pour all of it into one thing, it's not as pure. And I think in this past year or so, I've been really, like I said, with meditation and I've been running to, to like a, to the degree that it's like medicine for me and vital. And I recognize like how much time of my day that actually eats up of. Like I don't usually get to work, quote unquote, it's not ever really getting to work, but going to my studio by like, until like 11 o'clock, cuz in that morning I'm doing all these things that are setting me up for, for clarity and for, for a good head space. And then, you know, it's not getting to work till 11. And I know that that's not really possible for a lot of people. And I kind of like, it's unfortunate that we can't carve out more time for like, hold on, let's take care of the human side before we get to this kind of capitalistic, you know, worker be sort of situation. Yeah.

Lindsey: 51:43

Right, right. Yeah, it's hard to hold that like, Knowing that, yeah. Just holding space for other people. Mm-hmm. That there it is just is the truth. A lot of people. Don't have time for that. They're getting up, they're like, they have to be at work at five or something. Yes. They're like picking up

Daren: 51:59

our trash. Yeah, I know. Thank God. You know? Exactly. Yeah. I mean, so that, I mean that if anything makes me just carry just an immense amount of gratitude. Mm-hmm. Like anytime I see anybody doing something that looks like a shitty job, I'm just like, thank you. Like thank you. Yeah. There's gratitude comes with it, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Lindsey: 52:16

So I wanna talk about the, there was on, on one episode of your podcast, you talked a lot about. Friends and community. Mm-hmm. And where are you with

Daren: 52:27

that friendless? Do you know? Any of you guys know anybody? Yeah. You can be your friends for a few more days. Well, so the Yeah, I know. So you guys are outta here. It's, it is largely like, I think what I spoke about in that episode, I, um, I lose track of what I talk about and, and then I'm like, yes. Like couple or last episode I was like, I'm pretty sure I said this exact thing already on an episode. I'm like, I'm so worry about it. Yeah, same. Everyone wants to hear it. I talked about the dog that I want to get named Joey and Yeah. And I'm like, I think I was like, I woke up in like a cold sweat. Like I'm pretty sure I mentioned that already. Um, but uh, yeah, so I think a big part of it for me is that I'm in this kind of, we live in this valley where. A huge amount of people. The large percentage of people are married with children and I'm divorced with a child. And so I have a whole half of my life that I don't have my kid, and I don't really have people that I spend time with because they're tired and busy and all these ways. And so like, yeah, what I was kind of harkening back to in that episode, I think was with what it, what it was like to grow up in your twenties when it was, you didn't have a family or job or kids or anything like that, and it was all hanging out with your friends. And it was all that level of just like not a care in the world where like the littlest thing could be the most exciting thing as long as you're hanging out with your friends and things. And so that's been a big, big thing that's been missing. And I don't think I'll ever really recapture that. Exactly. And I know that there's, like, I talked to my therapist about it or other people like my mom who are just like, you know, hey, you gotta get into like things and like clubs and things and I don't know what that is. Like, I don't know. Yeah, it's like, uh, I'm also a total introvert, so that doesn't help. Like I really love being, or I say I love it. I don't know if I love it or not, but I, I err towards me being alone a lot more. And, and, and I have, I think a big part of it's that I have this creative impulse where I'm never, I never, I'm never bored. Like, I'm never like, fuck where it drives me to the point where I'm like, I gotta go to the bar and like, hang out with people. Like, I'm like, I'm gonna grab my iPad and I'll just draw. And like, I'm not necessarily like happier fulfilled socially, but I'm occupied and I feel like I'm being creative. And then I'm like, oh, I can sell this print. Oh wait, that's gonna ring. And, uh, you know, accolades and money and like, so it's like a little bit of like, oh, this is kind of tainted in a way where I've become obsessed with the creativity because it is so easy and free that I get to do it and also be rewarded by many means. And so it kind of supplements friendship, but man, yeah, I would, I, I want the old school friendship for sure. Yeah. Um, and that's just not gonna happen.

Lindsey: 54:54

So. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and at least in my experience, That's probably true for you too. Like as we're developing or if we're in some like self-awareness path, some friendships are just gonna fall off or they're not. Yeah. It there has to be some fulfillment there. Yeah. That And it's different than when you're 20 and you're just having fun. Yeah. Maybe we need to have a little bit more of that, but without the recklessness of like, okay, we're gonna get wasted or whatever. Yep. That doesn't feel good anymore. So that takes Yes. That like takes friendships out of it. Absolutely. I'm not gonna see you

Daren: 55:30

at the bar. Right. Well that's a huge part of it is like the element that I, that was largely what my friend group consisted of was drinking cuz it's a social activity. Mm-hmm. And everyone can get around it and it's just like naturally kind of feeds on itself and becomes this really exciting thing. And so, yeah. I mean, to be, to be sober from alcohol, that just, I couldn't even bear the thought of like going into a bar right now. Like that sounds like the most miserable space. I was at a bar not too long ago. Uh, At a birth friend's birthday party, and I was hanging out with people that I, you know, friends of my child that I'm like, they're, they're friends, but I would only see'em at this sit situation. And, and I hadn't been around drunk people in a long time, and I was like, wow, this is some, like, dense energy. And everybody was like, behaving themselves. But it, it's different. It's like, ugh. It's a little bit like, eh, a little sloppy, you know, like, it's not there. We're not dropping into like really deep, you know, philosophical conversations. It's like, it's inebriated. Right, right, right. Yeah. You're right. Yeah. And so, yeah, no, and I think about like adults, like this is a big cycling town. I see like on a Saturday morning, like a big group of men going out for a ride and like, yeah, I guess that's, yeah, it's activities and things and I go running with some friends, but when the run is over, we all go our separate ways and that's it. So we only really, like, we have really deep conversations, which is amazing, and we're doing that while like our endorphins are flowing and everything like that. But I don't know. I don't, I don't really have the answer. I do think it is just getting a dog and being like, that's it. That's funny. That's

Lindsey: 56:50

the dog. I'll tell the dog my

Daren: 56:51

story.

Britt: 56:53

You're gonna get really into dog training or

Daren: 56:54

some shit. Oh, for sure. Sure. Find the dog training. You'll find community. That's Oh, dog parks. I mean, when you go to the dog park, there you go. Yes, exactly. That's kind of like

Lindsey: 57:03

a kid. Yes. People like their dogs more. Yes, that's right. You know,

Britt: 57:06

it's like the bar for 40 year olds. This is

Daren: 57:08

like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was thinking about when we were at the playground and how we do this, these things as parents where like you and I and Val were there, but we're not climbing on the things and getting into, or like leaning against the fence and like, Tired and, and all overwhelmed. And it's just a funny place to be as parents where you get to the point where you're like, so much of your life isn't about you. And so much is like, what are we doing for the kids? What, how are they gonna stay occupied? And I, I love that, but I'm also recognizing like, wow, there's a big portion of my life that is kind of just like idly standing by while my kid enjoys themselves and I'm not free enough to get down into the sand and like drop into that. And the moments where I can do that, I'm like, this is pure presence right now. And this is where the kids are in pure presence all the time. They're not, cuz we're just thinking about all the other shit we'd rather do or don't want to do or all these ways that we're escaping the moment, which is. Like, my kids are always like, pops, come play with me. And I'm like, I'm playing with you all day. Like, like, oh my God. Which is like not true. At least my Exactly right. Well, yeah. No, but it's, it's like there's not enough like there Yeah. There's not gonna be like tanks already. You're excused pops. You can go to have your tea now. Like Yeah, it's like, or like we're getting ready for bed and, and literally like it's a Saturday and we've been playing from six o'clock in the morning till bedtime at seven and it's like, oh, whoa, we can't play. And I'm like, oh yeah, you just are ins sat insatiable. Like you're not gonna feel like you've had enough. And that's beautiful and I wish that I could get some of that, but I don't know. We're just old, old people. Yeah, right, right. Old. It's cruel. It's like a cruel thing to like have this kind of paradox of like getting you we're done with our childhood and now we're the guys who stand around and you know, like just be grumpy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. While also I think we're, you know, one of the most, uh, Progressive empowered, um, just kind parental generations of humankind. Right. I'd like to think that

Lindsey: 59:00

we, right. Yeah. Like we're tuning back in. Yeah. But we're for sure still also dealing with, you know, like the confines of whatever the structure is. Yeah. Maybe

Britt: 59:10

our kids will be the parents we

Daren: 59:12

structure and so on until everyone just like disappears from just being like these elevated entities where we all just dissolve. Yeah. We just, our human forms dissolve. Well, I was thinking about when, how we, how. Potentially, this is generally speaking, but like our parents kids would go to bed and maybe like the bottles of wine come out or something a little bit stronger. And then we're sitting here drinking tea, doing a podcast, talking about our, our feelings and our, how we wish we were better parents and stuff. So like you can already see that there's, yeah, we're doing fine. Yeah, absolutely. Yep.

Lindsey: 59:43

Yep. Our kids are watching TV in there, but yeah, whatever. It's probably a cartoon. It's fun. That's

Britt: 59:48

funny that, that's like our guilt as like, oh, for sure. If our kids

Daren: 59:51

are watching TV right now. I know. I'm like, I, I'm, sometimes I'm like counting. I'm like, okay, that we just watched three episodes of that show in a row. Okay. Like, we need to like break away and do some Legos or something like that. And like, just even that, even that considering even if it was like, no, you go into a fourth episode. But the fact that I thought that that was an issue instead of like, go in the other room and just, you know, get away from me so I can drink like this kind of like situation that even just our thought, and again, it's like you said, our kids will be the ones who stop it at the third episode without being, yeah. Is this all right? I don't know. Like, yeah. Yeah, we're doing

Lindsey: 1:00:22

good. Yeah. Yeah, we're doing good. You're doing good. Thanks for sure. We we're doing good. Is there some way that you wanna start over that you haven't done yet, or something new that you feel like is brewing?

Daren: 1:00:34

Um, do you guys know, uh, Presumably Donald Glover. The yes, the just the guy who's just done everything and every genre and has just crushed it. He lives in Ohio. He was the president, right? He was the president. Oh, different

Lindsey: 1:00:48

Donald. I'm just kidding.

Daren: 1:00:51

Different one. Quite different. Yeah. Um, do you, do you know who Donald Glover is? Yeah, we, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Uh, so he bought a place in Ohio. He saw him break his ankle at one of his shows. Yeah. Oh, really? In Dallas? Yeah. Oh

Lindsey: 1:01:01

gosh. And we had amazing seats. It was a great show. Sorry about your ankle. I could hear it.

Daren: 1:01:06

Snap. I could hear it. Wow. Got my money's worth. You know. He's amazing, man. That's intense. He lives here. Yeah, he has a place, um, down the. Down Street. Street, I dunno that way. Uh, and he now is like, he just gq, he's on the cover of gq. And like I just read the article and all these photos are like quite literally taken in these like orange orchards, these amazing photos of him. I saw those photos.

Lindsey: 1:01:28

I didn't know that he lived here though. Yeah, yeah,

Daren: 1:01:29

yeah. So he bought this place called Honeymoon Gardens that was, uh, owned by these, this couple who were like deeply spiritual at associations with the Rom Dawson. Yeah. All that. And so Donald Glover bought this place and tried to, I think is retaining some level of the spiritual element and also trying to like turn it into something. And in the article they kind of mentioned it, but he's starting a, uh, a branding studio, which is kind of, I think, Broader. He's like a creative studio. But anyway, he's like hiring for that right now. There's like job, literal job postings for it. And they're very strange and, and and kind of broad. And I thought like, man, it would be awesome to apply. I feel like way just out of my element. But even just that like desire to, to, to get in to, to get involved with someone that's doing something. Like I, I'm such a solo. Like I'm not a, I've never been on a team, a creative team or otherwise. And so I would love to like be a part of something where I'm working with other people. I think that like, and that would be helpful. Cause then they have like friends in there and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. What are you guys doing that for work? You know? So I think that, that, that feels like even just this, like the way things appear, you know, this like happening, happening upon the fact that Donald Glover. Is starting a creative studio and just that, I dunno, even if it's obviously not with that very kind of, um, probably rare opportunity, but that would feel like, would be a whole new thing because even like my company consists of like one dude who, who I see every now and then, and then a person who I've never met. But there's not, there's not like a team. There's not like kicking ideas off and like col it's, there's no collaboration to it. So I think that would feel really, that would feel completely new. And that's not anything that you can really plan for. So like, Someone will walk down the street one day and I'll be like, there it is. That's my, my teammate. Yeah. Right,

Lindsey: 1:03:10

right. I love

Daren: 1:03:11

that. So, yeah. That's so cool. Keep an eye out for that. Yeah. You to soon to be announced. Right. Okay. So, and you can start

Britt: 1:03:16

that rap career back

Daren: 1:03:17

up too. That's true. We could get back together. Age. Yeah. 40 year old men on stage, white guys doing rap. That'll look real good. Yeah. I mean, Eminem does it. That's true. He does. Donny g can

Britt: 1:03:26

get you hooked

Daren: 1:03:26

up. Yeah. Hey, Donald, do you mind if I spit some wraps for you? Nothing would love that. I'm really

Lindsey: 1:03:31

good. I promise.

Daren: 1:03:33

Everyone told me. Um, but yeah, so I think it is really like the, the, again, the not knowing the surrender of like, I don't feel like I'm, I'm ready to kick off this decade in my forties and be like, what's, what is the universe gonna serve to me? Like very kind of like goalless and just letting it happen. Yeah. Amazing.

Lindsey: 1:03:48

Yes. I love it. Thanks for asking. Yeah. Is there, you already mentioned untethered. Si we've already talked about music. Is there a book and or music that you. Love and will always love or that's something that you just really

Daren: 1:04:04

love right now. Hmm. Yeah, so there's been a book that I've been reading for a year now cuz that's how slowly I read. And this one's like, you kind of can read a little bit of it and let it sink in, but it's called Letting Go and it's. It's called The Pathway to Surrender is the subtitle to it. And it is very much just that kind of very simplistic concept of letting go and, and just allowing things to just kind of wash over you and not hold on to any of it. And it's, it's simple in theory, but in practice it's, I have, uh, a friend who I, who lives up in Washington and we talk, this is so funny cause this is like the level of like friendships I have. Like he's my, I would consider my best friend. We talk every single day, but we talk using Marco Polo. Do you know that app? Yeah. So we don't ever actually have conversations. We, I watch videos of him and then I res I take notes while I'm listening to it and then I send back a video response. And we've been doing this for a long time now, and it's could be a couple times a day where we quote unquote talk and we have these kind of one-sided conversations. And so that's been a book that him and I have been like, we, we discuss as, you know, these kind of monologues we send back and forth to each other. But it's this idea, um, that again is like really simple, but. If you can kind of, if you can even feel the slightest bit of it, or even just like holding it in your mind as an overall concept of letting go to me is, was a new sort of thing. So that one for sure. Anyone out there who's looking to let go. Yeah. That's who, who wrote it. Oh God. I haven't read it long enough to know. Yeah. I'm, I'm also terrible with names, like retaining, uh, like, uh, song titles or like things mm-hmm. Like, I just, I like things, but I never really like, know them very well, especially since we stopped holding CDs. Like when we used to like, look through all the liner notes and read everything and absorb it all. You you knew what

Britt: 1:05:41

studio Totally. Everything was recorded. We got,

Daren: 1:05:44

got, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean, that's like, now that everything's just as kind of like ephemeral digital, like you put on Spotify and like I, you don't even know, like, I love a song. I'll listen to a song 10 times a day. Mm-hmm. And I'm like, who is that again? I don't even know exactly. Yeah. I'm pretty

Lindsey: 1:05:58

bad with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what? Good on Spotify, they know me.

Daren: 1:06:05

Exactly. I know. We don't even to know ourselves anymore. Thank you. Algorithms are, yes, exactly. Yes, yes. Yeah, I do. I do really like welcome and value the onset of further AI integration into our lives, and I don't say that with any sarcasm. I think that it's really helpful. It'll alleviate a lot of things that are superfluous, like superfluous that we don't need to deal with. It makes lives more streamlined and And I just feel like if you, again, it's a tool and if you utilize it to it's potential. Exactly. It's beautiful. Exactly. I get

Britt: 1:06:33

ads for the shit I want and I love it. Yeah. Yep. It does not bother me. Yeah, right.

Daren: 1:06:37

Yeah. Well, but even because you still have the choice to say it. I don't wanna buy this. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah.

Britt: 1:06:42

Maybe that's why some people don't like it is they feel like they're not having a choice, or maybe they're not comfortable in their

Lindsey: 1:06:47

choices. Exactly. Well, there's this like, there's like a fear around specifically AI that it's gonna like take creativity away. Mm-hmm. No one will be able to write a book, no one will be able to write a screenplay, and that's just not true. Right. Just. Someone who writes a book now can do it a little easier or Yeah, because it still has to have the element of a

Daren: 1:07:07

soul. I agree. I agree. And I think if anything, those will actually anybody go. That'll be more valuable when things get diluted, where studios are making fast and the Furious 27 with all ai, digital cgi, that's great. That's garbage. People love that shit. But then the person who makes the independent a 24 film on film and like, you know, all this like dead stock, like all these like creative elements, that's still valuable. And it's a niche, more of a niche value, but that's valuable to me. Right,

Lindsey: 1:07:33

right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ai. Go ai. Go ai. Yeah. Make a shirt. Um, okay. We always end with a question from Eli and a question from Jack.

Daren: 1:07:44

Oh, amazing. Do they, are they coming out?

Lindsey: 1:07:46

They're, they would come out, um, but not tonight.

Daren: 1:07:52

Is this, is this tailored to me or is this a generic question?

Lindsey: 1:07:55

Uh, I ask them sometimes. They're all Jack's had the same question for a little while. Okay. Cause he hasn't really felt like he's got an answer. Eli's questions a lot. Pressure is new. Jack's question is, is your head an appendage?

Daren: 1:08:10

Total jack question? Uh, oh my God. No. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Because in the way that your hands are appendages and your feet are appendages, they're both, they're both tools. Your head is also a tool. I'm gonna go with that. Okay. Yeah.

Britt: 1:08:27

That's the best answer we've got. I asked. Oh, amazing. I asked a doctor yesterday and he couldn't, he couldn't tell me

Daren: 1:08:33

Were you like, get out your doctor book. Gotta say he is a hot Yeah, he is a hot dog. A sandwich. That would've been, yeah, that's definite, right? I've, that's a question that people kind of get torn on. Um,

Lindsey: 1:08:44

and we're gonna go with Yes. Okay. Yeah. Yes. On all fronts. Next question. If you were a robot, would you still have feelings?

Daren: 1:08:53

Forgot that your son asked this for a question for a second, and I'm like, that's kinda a strange question for him. This

Lindsey: 1:08:59

is a question for me, Eli. He's about to be

Daren: 1:09:01

eight. Okay. Sorry, say it again. If the, if you were a robot, would

Lindsey: 1:09:04

you, if you were a robot, would you still have human

Daren: 1:09:07

emotions and feelings? Well, I mean that's, we're getting into the AI territory here, right? Um, uh, Yeah, it really depends on the, the programmer, which is interesting because that there's, are we talking about like now genesis of like artificial intelligence, birthing its own artificial intelligence? And then, but it's still the genesis of that. We as human beings created it and decided whatever we wanted to put in it. Um, that's a tough one. That's not a yes or no answer for sure. Yeah, we could, we could philosophize a whole podcast on that one. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. It's, we'll have to wait

Lindsey: 1:09:36

and

Daren: 1:09:36

see. Yes.

Britt: 1:09:37

Well we answered the hard one and now we have another

Daren: 1:09:38

hanger we can ask people. So that's, yeah, that's good. Oh,

Lindsey: 1:09:42

amazing. Cool. So fun. How? Yeah. You're so fun. Thank you so much for doing this. Yeah, of course. How can people find you? What do you want them to buy? I

Daren: 1:09:51

assume they all know me already anyway, so we don't have to plug. Right. Um, what do you, uh, so real fun. wow.com Instagram. Real fun. Wow. Um. Uh, yeah, that's like, the thing is I have so much shit. Like I have so much stuff. Uh, it's like that's been a big thing for me is, is it's fun to create things. Mm-hmm. And to, again, to conceive of something and then see it through and, and then having the capital to produce it and then it's like, oh, there it is. And then getting to make a funny reel about it. Like the whole process from like, as they say from soup to nuts. Like, I get to, I'm like, I can't wait for this mug to come cause I have a really funny idea of this way I'm gonna like market it. And so it's like the whole process is really, really fun to me. But to answer your question, nothing specific. You can buy whatever you like. I have new patches that I really like that I think I really cool that, um, you can sew onto your denim jacket. Yeah. So I haven't quite figured out how to do yet.

Lindsey: 1:10:41

Well, I have. A real fun wow. Shirt that I've had for a few years. And one is, it's one, it's the piece to you, Uhhuh. Yeah. And wait, did you put the real Yeah. Or a story. Or a story? That was you. Yeah.

Daren: 1:10:52

Yeah. Oh my God. Um, what the fuck? And

Lindsey: 1:10:55

then we met the next day. Yeah. Well, and someone, okay. It's funny, this is the end of the podcast, but what a good friend that has a store in Fort Worth. It's called Morgan Mercantile. Okay. And they have some of your, they have some of your amazing stuff in there. Amazing. And they're fans of yours also. They saw that and they were like, oh, Darren lives in Ojai Uhhuh and he's having this popup. And then we started talking about about it and then the next day I was like, I just met him.

Daren: 1:11:19

Yes. Oh, it's so cool. Yeah. I love the beautiful synchronicity.

Lindsey: 1:11:22

So I just wanted to say about the shirt that if you only have four shirts as I now do, Uhhuh, you can keep a real fun wow shirt. Yes. So that can be an ad for everyone. That's

Daren: 1:11:31

huge honor. For sure. Yes. It will take, take

Lindsey: 1:11:33

it all around the world. Yes. Or a print or a mug. Yeah.

Daren: 1:11:38

Or it's a, you don't have to. Children's clothes. My products. Yeah. Yeah. We got kids clothes now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm at the point where I'm saying we, even though it's so just me, let's just, then

Lindsey: 1:11:46

your, your va. I

Daren: 1:11:47

see something coming here. That's exactly, I'm manifesting at the we. Yes. Yes. It's gonna be you and Donnie G. Donny G. It's your old I'm blushing rap group. Donny t. Everyone's coming back together, so that's fun. Oh, amazing. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah. Yay. Thank

Lindsey: 1:12:04

you.