Beyond Labels: Bob Peck's Journey from Child Comedian to Mystic Philosopher—Integration, Awakening, and the Importance of Spiritual Humor

In this insightful episode of the Can We Start Over podcast, hosts Brit and Lindsey engage in a captivating conversation with Bob Peck, the brilliant author of "Original Sin is a Lie."

Bob shares his unique perspective on spirituality and religion, discussing topics such as mystic philosophy, practical spirituality, and the teachings of various wisdom traditions. He emphasizes the importance of embracing a label-less approach and recognizing that all paths can lead to the same truth.

Bob Peck is a festival award-winning filmmaker, author, lawnmower, meditator, and a spiritual student of Christ, Krishna, the Buddha, and Yogananda.  He’s also a Kriya Yoga practitioner through KYI and a certified mindfulness & meditation teacher. 

Key Takeaways:

1. Holistic Spirituality: Bob's exploration spans mystic philosophy, practical spirituality, and teachings from various wisdom traditions, transcending traditional boundaries.
2. Humor as a Connector: Learn how Bob seamlessly integrates humor into his work.
3. Embrace All Aspects: Bob's diverse background informs his perspective. He emphasizes embracing every facet of ourselves, transcending single labels or belief systems.
4. Alternative Perspectives: Gain insights into different spiritual paths and challenge traditional views on religion. Bob's book, "Original Sin is a Lie," prompts listeners to question and reevaluate their beliefs beyond traditional dogma.

To delve deeper into Bob Peck's wisdom and humor, follow him on Instagram and TikTok and visit his website OriginalSinIsALie.com.

GIVEAWAY -- Psst... want to snag a copy of Bob Peck's book, "Original Sin is a Lie"? Head to our Apple Podcasts page, leave a quick review and shoot us an Instagram message or email saying "giveaway" to enter. We'll announce a winner on November 30th. 

CONNECT WITH US!
We'd love to hear from you! What do you want to hear more about? What do you love? Have a topic request or a guest suggestion? Please shoot us an email or DM on Instagram.

Britt's Photography
Somatic Healing with Lindsey

Instagram
@canwestartoverpod
@j.britt_robisheaux
@itslindseyakey

Transcript

Britt: 1:20

Hello and welcome to the Can We Start Over podcast. My name is Brit.

Lindsey: 1:24

And my name is Lindsay. And we

Britt: 1:25

are a couple of people with three children who sold everything, everything, one year ago to travel the world and figure out where we want to live. And along the way, we've been talking to other people who have started over in big ways as well. Would you say that's accurate, Lindsay?

Lindsey: 1:40

That's, I'll, I'll deem it accurate. Fantastic. And we bring it all to you, the listener. So we're glad you're here. Thanks for listening. If you haven't listened before, welcome. You're in for a treat. Maybe, maybe you're already running for the hills. What's new with you, Britt?

Britt: 1:58

Well, I'm just navigating the world of freelance work. Fun. Producing podcasts. And I like it. Each one is different. So it's a, an interesting dynamic to go from something really loose to something very professional. Having to learn how to write emails to doctors and, like, famous doctors, so they have to be, like, extra formal. So, yeah, I'm navigating that. Famous doctor, Doogie Howser. I'm going to go ahead and spill it. Doogie Howser is on one of these. Doogie Howger. You've never heard

Lindsey: 2:28

of him, but he's famous. But that's, like, the world of being a producer, right? You've got to know how to navigate.

Britt: 2:35

You have to navigate people's personalities. Yeah. That's a big part of being a producer in any production job. The job of producer is such a vague term because it can mean so many different things, but the one thing it is... Every time is navigating

Lindsey: 2:49

people's personalities. It's true, yeah, yeah, and making it hopefully end up in a cohesive product. True, true. A finished product. So, what's new with you, Lindsay? The one year, one year ago, we got to Mexico. On this day, one year ago, I didn't realize that we landed to live there for three months. So I'm feeling like a little nostalgic. I'm feeling really grateful. And I'm in this period where yeah, I'm feeling the stretch in a lot of ways. Not only like figuring out work, fun, home, life balance, all the things, but also what am I, Here to create and I'm so I'm like in this stretchy place and I think that it being the day that we went to Mexico, I, I guess I'm just noticing more that I'm, I don't, well, we've talked about this so much on this podcast, but like just tapping back into like trusting the flow of life and surrender. And if you're really committed to that, like it will fuck you up. It can rock you because. It doesn't always mean that it's easy, it means you're gonna have to like, expand into another version of you, and I've been hyper doing that for like, at least three years, so it's been like, ah, this feels scary, and then, ah, okay, like, iteration or whatever, and I'm like at this next threshold, so right now I'm like in the really uncomfortable phase, and what I'm really like working on, I'm like just trying to let the discomfort be fuel. And, and know that I wouldn't trade it for something else. That's where I'm like, okay, a year ago today I was, went to live in Mexico for three months at the beginning of like a really long journey. That was not even, that was like the tip of the iceberg of what we did in the last year. So, so then you, so then I know that I wouldn't trade it, like this discomfort, this like stretchiness, this like, uh, what's next? An unknown, like, I wouldn't trade it for some level of comfort that meant staying where I was. Mm, yeah. And that I've been doing that for a long time. I don't want, I guess I, I'm not the kind of person that wants to sit. Not that I never want to be comfortable, but I want to, like, explore, I want to, like, touch the edges, I want to get into the unknown, I want to, like, see what's out there, I want to, I want to see if I can do something. And those parts that, like, feel sticky. Or, you know, whatever the discomfort, it's exactly what Ramna says. It's grist for the mill. It all becomes grist for the mill of awakening and of, like, showing up more as you. So when, when I frame it that way, and then I'm, like, knowing, tapping into, like, that inner knowing... That wisdom in the body, then, then if it's grist for the mill, then it's like, whatever discomfort I'm feeling is gonna take me somewhere deeper, different, better, another level than even where I am now. And so that's what I'm feeling. And it's, yeah, I'm just, I'm just in a process for the last, I guess, forever, but I've been feeling it for the last week or five days.

Britt: 6:45

We have a fantastic guest today. His name is Bob Peck. He's the author of Original Sin is a Lie. It's his first book.

Lindsey: 6:52

Yeah, and I found Bob on Instagram, where you can follow him or original sin is a lie. And I just loved the way he was talking about spirituality and churchianity and like just a complete 180 from. What I, in Texas, grew up to know as religion. Where you're damned until you do. And all the things

Britt: 7:20

that pushed me away from religion my whole life. Yeah,

Lindsey: 7:22

yeah. And, so I just loved the way he was talking about it. Bought his book. Loved his book. Asked him if we could interview him. He was a great guest. And I'm sure he still is a great guest to this day. I doubt he's a bad guest now. But Bob is. Bob is an award winning filmmaker, an author, a meditation teacher, and a spiritual student. And a child comedian. And a child comedian. I forgot about that. Spoiler alert. He's a student of Christ, Krishna, the Buddha, Yogananda. So he has this beautiful, unique mixture of really all the wisdom traditions and shares how they're all a path to the one thing. And I'm just I'm here for it. I love it. I think we all need it. People that turn that don't feel spiritual at all. Maybe this is a good one for you to listen to to see that there's some really amazing nuggets in there. And then especially people, a lot of people we know since we're from Texas, that grew up with a really constrictive spiritual experience to know that there are people teaching something else that are like using Jesus's teachings from what the actual teachings were and and teaching it in a loving way. Bob's also a Texas native just like us and we really hit it off. The

Britt: 8:54

conversation really brought the two parts of me together. The one that Never wanted to believe in anything, and the one that wants to know what is there.

Lindsey: 9:02

Yeah, so we get into it in this talk. We talk about mystic philosophy, we talk about practical spirituality, we talk about the gurus, we talk about the one guru living within all of us. And I think you're really going to like it. And

Britt: 9:20

after this, you're definitely going to want to follow Bob on Instagram. His handle is at OriginalSinIsALie.

Lindsey: 9:27

Same name on Tik Tok, Original Sin is a Lie, or head over to his website, OriginalSinIsALie. com. There's a theme running in there. And also, you can pick up his book, which is called Original Sin is a Lie. No shit.

Britt: 9:43

And we're going to give away one copy of Bob's book, Original Sin is a Lie. If you hadn't caught the name already, all you have to do to enter is go to the Apple Podcasts page for Can We Start Over podcast. Scroll to the bottom, rate and review us, then send us a message that says give away to let us know that you've done it. Then we're going to pick one person and give

Lindsey: 10:04

them that book. We're going to announce a winner on November 30th, so head over to Apple Podcasts and give us that review. And I know right now we're all feeling so much stress, or a lot of us are, stress seems to be permeating our human experience more and more. And I know for me, without a clear body centered way to release stress, it can cause long term effects on our health, on our relationships, on the way we live our lives. And we all have this emotional residue from our life experiences. That residue gets built up and when we don't integrate those experiences, it adds to the stress. It adds to the inability to relax. And it hurts those connections that we have with the people around us and the connection we have with ourself. You don't have to figure it out alone. You don't have to carry stress and worry and anxiety and actually moving through the stress in your life and releasing it is just so much easier when you work with someone. So if you are ready to let go of the stress and the anxiety and the questioning that might come with this time of year, maybe you're ready to be guided by your inner knowing. You're ready to know what your embodied yes actually feels like and stop questioning where to go next. You should consider an intuitive somatic one on one session. These sessions are an honest look inward, a chance to listen to your body and release the blocks and patterns that may have been holding you back. It's 90 minutes of deep attunement to your inner experience and a release of that emotional residue. You can return to a natural state of calm and centered. Somatic work is effective at reducing stress, alleviating anxiety, and giving us tools to regulate our nervous system so that we operate from a space of wholeness. When you tune in to your body somatically, meaning through the mind and body connected as one, you can separate thoughts and beliefs from your emotions. Even the self limiting ones that we can cling on to are really just thoughts that we unconsciously decided to believe. And the feelings or emotions are what arise separate from thought. But our minds... lump them together and create meaning out of feeling. My life completely changed when I began working with somatics, and that's why I love sharing it with other people. It's incredible how a perspective can shift when you use your emotional and feeling body as a superpower instead of something that you push aside. You start to feel better. You start to sense more joy, more presence, because that's when you're operating from that space of wholeness. And from that place, you can live in your authenticity. I'm offering these intuitive somatic release sessions at a reduced rate. for a limited time. So if you're ready to clean up that emotional residue, to come back into presence with your body, book a one on one session with me, and let's get you back to that place of wholeness. Hey, Can We Start Over listeners, are you signed up for our email list? We send out awesome newsletters every week with bonus juicy tidbits from each episode, information that we don't put on the podcast, and our Friday Five, which is just a list of the things that we love each week. This is stuff you won't hear on the podcast and you won't see on social. It's only available through the email list. That's also where we share all of our giveaways with our newsletter community first, even before the podcast episode drops. So if you want to join our community, sign up at canwestartoverpodcast. com slash newsletter. Or follow the link in the show notes. So there's one more thing. And that's just ask a specific question for people to DM us. It could be just like, what's the next place you're traveling? Or like, or that, or like, yeah, either that or like, what do you, what, what did you take away from this talk with Bob Peck? And then we'll just jump into it.

Britt: 14:53

And one last thing, when you're done listening to this, DM us and let us know what you took away from this episode. I'm very curious to know. I feel like there's something for everybody. And I really want to know what your something

Lindsey: 15:04

is. So do it one more time and say Bob Peck the interview with Bob Peck. Okay, just like tie it all back in

Britt: 15:11

one last thing One last thing. When you're done listening to this episode with Bob Peck, will you send us a DM on Instagram and let us know what your biggest takeaway was? I'm very curious. I feel like there's something for everybody in here and I want to know what your something is. And with that, now we get started. Let's do it.

Lindsey: 15:32

So Brit is sort of like a, a spiritual noob. Minecraft language like our eight year olds. It's funny. Yeah. And so it's interesting to like be from all these worlds of Texas, which you, you know, we know the vibe to like. fun, can be fundamental Christian Texas vibe, but can also be around a bunch of creative people that are like, fuck it all, we're atheists, like, and then to be in this like, not even push pull, but this dance of like, both. All of it, none of it. Anyway, so, so Brit is like, yeah. Label less ness. Yeah, exactly.

Britt: 16:14

That's been my biggest thing. Now being like super open to everything on this trip and just like shedding labels. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Like, I, I used to be an atheist, you know, my whole life. And now I don't like even want to. I don't even give that word any meaning now, you know,

Bob: 16:32

it's very declarative too early. No, let's come right in. Let's go. Right. Um, this guy said, uh, on one of my comments recently said the agnostics are atheists and agnostics believe in nothing. The mystics believe in nothing, but the mystics. Give it a capital N. I

Britt: 16:52

love

Lindsey: 16:53

that. I love that. We love to start with your starting over story, and that can be literally anything that feels like a starting over.

Bob: 17:04

Yeah, I shared this recently. It was not in my book, but this is a fun kind of description of where I am now in terms of what I'm kind of considering in Act 3. So, my Act 1, I was a child comedian. I did stand up comedy in middle school and high school and I killed as a child comedian. I like won awards and it was really, I would do jokes about like video games and Zelda and like little kid stuff and um, did really well with that, you know, in my school and area and whatever. I went to college, went for film here at UT Austin and started taking religious classes for electives. They were just interesting classes. I was into Indian Buddhism, shamanism, formative Christianity. And, um, at that same time, I just met all these guys that were way funnier than me. Um, you know, that were like effortlessly funny, some of which, some of whom were doing film and some of whom were doing improv stuff. And I was just like, I'm not, this isn't for me. Um. I'm really into this, this, this religious studies stuff. This is like what I'm like lights me up. And so in college, kind of like my thesis film was called the kingdom within, which is about yoga and Christianity, which I write about, um, interviewed a bunch of pastors and swamis. And, um, so yeah, in my twenties was act two was kind of like hardcore, serious religious films. And I didn't know at the time that nobody wanted to watch that. Um, whatsoever. So, um, but I'm still proud of them and I'm proud of that period of my life. It made me who I am and I learned so much. Um, and then just economically, I learned marketing and big tech came to Austin. And so I'm in marketing at Meta here nowadays. Um, but I started writing a few years ago and it just had a humorous aspects to it. And it would be like, you know, Yogananda's read on Easter or, you know, some kind of comparative religion, mystic philosophy thing, but it was typically funny or human or whatever. And so I'm kind of, I'm in this act three original sin is a lie. The book is. Um, you know, it's, it's got some laughs. It's definitely not a dry religious textbook. And so it's a fun kind of like integration of the realization. I think starting over for me was saying, wait a second, I'm I'm all of these, you know, I'm not just the hard edge or the, just the lighthearted thing. It's, it's a little bit of both. And so I'm really, and now I'm getting, you know, some, some responses from, from my work after, you know, 10, 12, 15 years of no one really giving a damn. Now, um, people are starting to this past year. So it's a funny, that's how it goes, right? Yeah. Embodiment. Yeah, exactly.

Lindsey: 20:13

Right. Yeah. It makes so much sense. I think probably everyone experiences that to some extent, like, you're one thing and then you're like, oh, I'm not that anymore, so I must be the opposite. Totally. Or really, you're like somewhere in the middle, you're like a mix of all of them. It was

Bob: 20:29

particularly like a 22 year old's kind of energy, too, to just be like, no, I'm this. And now I'm 35, I'm like, no, I'm like, I'm all of these, and I'm more, you know. Isn't that

Britt: 20:44

crazy how long it takes to figure that out? Right. Right before high school. What was religion to you back

Bob: 20:52

then? Yeah, I'm really lucky My dad has always been in my life an open minded spiritual progressive person he his act three was interesting and and kind of Somewhat more common nowadays that I'm finding and maybe this describes you guys or people, you know But he was Catholic altar boy as a kid and then staunch militant atheist You know, in his twenties and thirties and, um, my parents got a divorce. They're still great friends. He met a woman who was a very mystical spiritual in the nineties and, you know, changed his life. He had all these synchronicities and just like learned how to meditate and Reiki and like. So he that was my dad growing up and so I always have I'm very grateful because so many people aren't meeting now Kind of in this space of like quote unquote deconstruction. You guys are familiar with that term and just like this kind of movement of existential Christian Period in America, which is great, which I highly support a lot of these guys and gals I grew up in just heavy indoctrination, guilt, shame, trauma, you know, a lot of people are still in it, which is a big motivator for me in my work, but I'm very grateful because my dad was kind of like, look, they're all valid and Check out which ones you like and don't like and I was reading like Thich Nhat Hanh when I was in 7th or 8th grade. I mean, I, you know, I've kind of always been into comparative religion, spirituality. Yogananda, who's joining us in the Zoom, is a big influence on me as well. And so, so yeah, I just, I've always kind of had an open minded view and even my mom's side are Easter Christmas Christians. It's in the Episcopal Church, so it was, and so I liked going, you know, it's like when you go twice a year, it's like, it's kind of fun. You get to dress up and, you know, light some candles and it's a cool thing and people are emotional and, and then, but you know, my wife who went six times a week, not thrilled about it. So, you know, I'm, I'm very lucky I think in, in retrospect, all these years later, I'm like, okay, wow, that was really great. That's how to do it. You know? A little bit of distance, some exposure, some reverence, and some seeing it all as a, as a buffet line, and that's kind of what I, how I've been categorizing all this is like, we got noodles, we got hamburgers, we got tiramisu, you know, that whatever you, whatever your appetite is, there's a tradition or a path for you. And so that's really, I think what That's what my work is. Yeah, it's such a

Britt: 23:38

spectrum. Yeah, I feel especially growing up in Texas,

Bob: 23:42

seeing that, like the extreme to one end, the

Britt: 23:45

extreme to the other, yeah. And I don't know, maybe it's like that in other places. I've only lived in Texas until now, so. But that's, that's so cool that you were able to hold it lightly. At a young age. And given the space to, you know, figure it out for

Bob: 23:59

yourself. Much

Lindsey: 24:00

gratitude. Yeah, yeah. Much gratitude for that. Yeah, and that you even were able to explore it, like, through school, through your artistic endeavors, it's like, there was all, obviously, it's, it was always a nugget, it seems like.

Bob: 24:14

It just really fires me up. I mean, even going to, um, UT, and I took about, you know, I have a bachelor's in religious studies, so not quite a PhD or a master's, but, you know, some academic study there, that was a limiting belief. At some point that has since gone away, but just leaving my, you know, a class on New Testament scholarship and seeing a poster for the church thing on the hallway, you know, it's like, this stuff is relevant. Not everybody is aware of it. Um, but it's like it's a big part of our lives and, um, and yeah, I think, you know, in some ways too, as a, as a mystic, and maybe we can talk about that term, but just as a kind of open minded spiritual person, you know, a lot of what I'm trying to do too, is to say, don't throw out the baby with the bath. You know, there's a lot of, to you guys's point, Britt said that earlier, you know, it's like people are either in it or out of it. And a lot of the people that are out of there are like, I don't want anything to do. You know, I've had comments where people say, I don't want to hear the word Bible again in my life, you know, and it's like, I totally respect that. And I get that because that, that means that it was shoved down your throat painfully. And I'm sorry that you experienced that. But that doesn't change the reality of the fact that these are powerful messages and they have transformative teachings in within them, you know, kind of gems among, you know, for me, it's kind of the bottom of the ocean. You got to dive, you really got to get get archaeological with the text. You got to have an intuitive, open heart. Um, you know, it's happy to go into more detail about the Bible and scriptural study, but there's some good stuff in there. You know, there's some real gems in there and that's, that's why they're still around.

Britt: 26:08

That's really good to hear because it's taken me 41 years to even open up. It's any of this stuff and then it all started rushing in and it first started with like Lindsay playing Ram Dass talks Mm hmm hearing and being like, oh this all makes so much sense And then realizing that all these religions whether I believe it or not There's so much like ancient wisdom there that that it's it stops mattering whether I believe it or not you know like the information is there and just like Undeniable wisdom if you can, you know

Bob: 26:41

dig through all the other things A friend said this recently, the truth doesn't need to be defended. Mm. Yeah. It doesn't. What you're defending... What are you defending? Right. It just is. It just exists. And if it's not for people or whatever, you know, that's fine, that's where they're at. But yeah, I see it that way too. There's a great parable that I'm guilty of probably referencing too much, but for you and your audience, it might be valuable. The blind man and the elephant. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that image of... Four blind men feeling different parts of an elephant and saying, you know, what the first blind man says this this animal is like a hose You know that they fill the trunk and the second blind man feels the leg and says no no No, this animal is like a pillar and then the third blind man feels, you know, the the ear and says oh It's like a tree leaf And they're all arguing and a person with sight comes and says you're right that the trunk is like a hose. You're right that the leg is like a column, but that's just one aspect, you know, and it's all of them. So you're all right. It's a being that encompasses all of these, but the, and there's also more characteristics. That you're missing out on that you haven't even none of you have felt, you know, and that's God That's the the unspeakable the ineffable, you know, you can have 99 adjectives and still not describe That means but you know, it's a good image The Hindus are very good at having these like very simple proverbs that explain just the most profound truths So I love that one. It's a it's a it's a universalists You know, as good as it gets, right?

Lindsey: 28:32

Literally the elephant in the room, let's go back to mysticism. I want to talk about it a little more and hear your perspective on like, you know, if there's someone that is curious, is new to this and kind of coming at it from a starting over, you know, how can someone dive in or even just like dip their toe in to get some clarity in this confusing life?

Bob: 28:57

Yeah, mysticism I think is often misunderstood in that a lot of people think, just in my experience, a lot of people think it means kind of like magical or something and um, mystic just means, it comes from the root word, the Greek word is mu, m u, meaning mute or silent in terms of that kind of unspeakable nature of the divine. The mystic doesn't. Need an institution, basically, the mystic can perceive the divine in our hearts and the hearts of every being there's a there's a line from Rumi who says, I looked for the divine in churches, temples and mosques, and I found it in my heart, you know, it's just that kind of embodiment of seeing seeing God and everything and everywhere, not necessarily pantheistic, but pantheistic, experiential. It's very heavy on the experiential and no mediator needed. And it's also called, I think it's kind of religious study. It's also called esoteric and exoteric. So there's kind of a mystical version of every religion you have. In Christianity, the institutions, the Catholic church, Protestant communities, et cetera. Um, but then you have gnostics of the, you know, contemplatives, uh, there's a variety of Christian mystics, but they exist, uh, and Judaism, typically it's the, the Kabbalah, the capitalists are mystical Jews. Um, the Sufis are the mystics from Islam. Um, and there's kind of Sufi versions of both Sunni and Shia. The East is a little different, but sometimes Zen has been considered mystic Buddhism in a sense. And then Hinduism is so diverse that there's really not a binary nature of Hindu. It's such a rich, as you guys know, for Ram Dass, it's, uh, it, you could spend your life studying the philosophies of that subcontinent. And I've been entranced by it for 20 years, and I still know. I feel like I don't know anything, um, but, um, but it tends to be Hinduism tends to be mystical kind of at large, but it's just, yeah, it's all about accessibility. And I, you know, there's, there's some great quotes from religious commentators and spiritual commentators saying like the Christianity of the 21st century has to be mystical, you know, it's, it's almost like we're kind of approaching the end of this, like wooden diluted, religious. Exoteric scene, you know, we're seeing church attendance. We're seeing, you know, this is all of this. This is just a big transformational moment. It's like, well, okay, great. Let's step into the mystic time period where it's in you. It's in your heart. It's a, you know, community is great. You know, I will say, I think it's just an asterisk on all this. I do get a lot of messages from people saying, is there groups of us, you know, and because, uh, for example, the Buddha, it's, The three jewels of Buddhism are the Dharma, the Sangha, and the Buddha. So the, the Dharma, the duty or the responsibility, the Sangha, or the group, the community of practitioners and the Buddha, the teacher, and, um, who's in you, but so, and fellowship and Christianity, I mean, that there, there is a real value in community. So that's, we're in an interesting time where mystics and spiritual folks, it's kind of like, let's. You know, find some other people doing it and I think there's a, there's a lot of great folks online too that are, that are in groups and, you know, even Ram Dass has kind of a community Zanka and things like that. Definitely. But yeah, it's an interesting. Evolving

Lindsey: 32:38

question. Yeah, yeah, that's something you said, like the importance of fellowship and, you know, that can also be a part that, like you mentioned, people that were in this more, um, indoctrinated experience with particularly Christianity or they were like, you know, that there's like real pain that came from that, that also came from fellowship. So then there can kind of be like this pulling away because there's like, Thank you. The well is poisoned by judgment.

Bob: 33:10

Yeah, absolutely. Time to just be in solitude for a while. Totally get that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But that can lead, too much of that can lead to despair.

Lindsey: 33:19

Totally, totally. So it's like we do, we know we need community. We know we need fellowship. Like that's why we love having friends. That's why we, you know, it feels good for us to sit and talk. And I guess I'm just one, I'm just curious about the like. A lot of what comes from the pain of particularly like being in a religious experience that wasn't great is this like underbelly that's like a lot of judgment or, you know, and that's really like be this one way.

Bob: 33:50

Correct. I think as an outsider that the rules and the guilt and shame for not having the rules or breaking the rules. Even just, I mean, the name of my book is called Original Sin is a Lie, this idea that is perpetuated in, you know, several denominations of Christianity, which Jesus never says. If anybody can find a line in the Bible where Jesus calls us dirty, shoot me an email, because I haven't found it yet. Um, it's, uh, it's from Augustine, there's a St. Augustine or Augustine was a fourth century monk. He became a saint in Catholicism, and he's the one who came up with this idea, but, um, So, a lot of my work is saying, well, actually, Jesus says the opposite. He says the kingdom of heaven is within you, Luke 17, 21. And the east, the eastern philosophies all kind of say you are, you are the infinite, you know, the mystics. You're the fractal of the one, you know, we're all this, the part of the whole. And so, exoteric kind of modern day Christianity, or churchianity, as Yogananda, Playfully refers to it. Um, you know, has that kind of, you are inherently dirty. The, I was on these, this other guy's podcast and he was saying, we were even told to question our intuition. Or our intuitive voice, you know, because that could be evil. That could be our inherent dirtiness and our inherent original sinfulness, etc. It's like, there's a lot of unraveling that's gotta happen when you've been told that your inner heart, that your inner voice is, is not to be trusted. That's pretty much the only thing worth trusting on this planet, to be honest. There's not much else in my view. Right, right. So, a lot of unwinding to our brothers and sisters, you

Britt: 35:44

know. Right, and finding your book has, has made me introspective. Wondering, you know, why I pushed away for so long. And that's been the

Bob: 35:52

biggest thing, is the shame. And, you know, everything you're covering in the book. Yeah.

Britt: 35:58

And I just wonder how many more people, like, that, that's it. It's like, I don't, shame is, why would I want to be a part of this God, you

Bob: 36:04

know? Right. I don't want to either. Right, right.

Lindsey: 36:11

Yeah. But I also think, or I feel that even in like, an atheist community or whatever, that there is this underlying shame. So it is still a separateness from, I am like, I am holy. Oh yeah, absolutely. You know, so it's like, Two sides of the same coin where basically they're believing they're believing in original sin, too But just like in like this is it fuck it Yeah, a scientific materialist,

Bob: 36:47

yeah Yeah, super interesting, I mean I definitely have seen there's a few categories of like Deconstructed people right? I think you know, the mystics are one of them And then you have, I think you also actually have Christians kind of still trying to stay in the community and the church, but they're like, still open minded and like, good luck, guys, you know, I think Christianity needs that it needs folks that are deconstructing but still willing to like stay in the community and kind of heal and rebuild from within. But then I'd say kind of that third group is exactly who y'all are talking about. It's like people that left, that like Molotov cocktail, the whole thing. And there is a lot of anger, typically. And there's a few creators in mind that I see and, you know, interact with in some capacity sometimes. Where, you know, they're, they're, they've gone the 180 degree thing. And they're still, like you said, they are still carrying that. Sending peace, you know. I think it's like, it's the, another Ram Dass thing is like, It's all happening perfectly, you know, Maharaji says, says that to him, um, it's all unfolding exactly as it should and so, you know, for me, sometimes I get caught up in that, like, where is everybody at, where is, you know, what the levels of consciousness and stuff and it's like, that's, I don't try to live in that too much, you know, directionally, it informs my work in some sense, but It's a very easy way you can tumble stumble into being overly concerned about the kind of egoic hypothetical hypothesizing about Where everybody is so yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think I think you guys are right and I will say it from the scientific materialism piece. I touch on it very briefly because I am not a scientist. I'm a fan of science, but there is a exciting new movement within science. Obviously around quantum mechanics and really it's kind of called the new science of consciousness. It's not woo woo stuff This is you know Some of the most respected academic journals and the nobel prize winners even from last year Talked a lot about how the universe is not local again Not my specialty and I and I let me also caveat this to say that some spiritual teachers mean well, but sometimes they'll say like Hey, um, quantum physics proves everything now, you know, spirituality is true and like that's not quite it You know, it's like I don't what I don't want to do is I don't want to appropriate physics As a not physicist, um, but, you know, so again, I'm walking the new ones there, but I do honor the fact that it seems like people who really, I'd say Donald Hoffman is probably one of the more respected scholars and professors in this field who talks a lot, he sounds a lot about, he sounds a lot like Sri Ramana Maharshi, for example, you know, in terms of this is an illusory world, this is, you know, there is an interesting paradigm as much as I could kind of disclaimer my, you know, My distance from it, it does seem to be really helpful for folks that are in that scientific materialist worldview. They're like, well, wait a second, if these scientists are saying this, then maybe I should pick up the Bhagavad Gita, you know, or whatever it, however people stumble into it.

Lindsey: 40:19

Yeah, it's like there's this crack in the, it's like, Oh, I can see the light coming out. Totally. Whatever it is. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I kind of, I want to go back to you mentioning like spiritual ego. Cause actually I, I remember a portion of your book where you're kind of talking about like how much a shaman costs and there is this level of, of. Where we can get, I mean, I know I get caught in it, I'm like, there's, I'll be like, they're selling something while selling some, while I am also selling something, you know? Yeah, totally. Um, but I just kind of want to hear your thoughts on that and like, how you balance it, how you hold it. I don't

Bob: 40:57

do a good job of it. Um, No. Well, you're aware, so you're doing well. Yeah, awareness is number one, for sure. Yeah. Yeah,

Britt: 41:05

I, you know.

Bob: 41:07

Also, though, like, shamans that charge 30k, like, there are rich people that are blinded by greed and, you know, have the 30k sitting around and, you know, are probably going to get corrected by that person, you know, so it's, it's very, as long as I'm not judging of it, that's really seems to be the theme, you know, it's like, if, if I'm free of the judgment of the situation, I'm liberated of it. You know, it's, it, there's a distinction in a course, of course, miracles, which is a big, um, document that I love on my altar, um, in terms of kind of distinct, distinguishing judgment from discernment, it's fairly common in mystic philosophy, kind of judgment is like heavier, you know, kind of has egoic accusation. But discernment is a, is a, is more objective, as objective as you can possibly be. Now that's, this is imperfect, because it's conceptual, and it's words are like finger painting, you know, compared to the actual reality. But, um, it does seem like there's a way to kind of be objective about these kinds of things, while not getting caught up in it. I mean, even the people... There's a great, um, book called Disappearance of the Universe, which I'm happy to point people to. I love, you guys are nodding. It's good. Um, it's terrific, and they, they mention Gary, who's the author, is talking to these deep spiritual teachers, and he says, um, you know, Christianity is so wrong, and the church leaders are so hypocritical, and you know, and it's like, it's all true. They said, but do you see what you just did? You're judging the judgers. So you fell into the trap of judgment. The ego perfectly created this little, you know, bear trap for you to stumble into and you did. You took the bait of, and that's what kind of back to like deconstruction talk. It's like, that's what a lot of people. I was like, well, but now, now you're, look what you're holding kind of thing. So, right. And, but I, but look, see, now I'm calling them out. So it's, it's such a, you can

Lindsey: 43:19

really go round and round and it's just like another way. We like. Make ourselves separate, separate, separate, where it's like, oh, no, we're all in like we get it. But like them. Yeah Yeah, we

Britt: 43:31

get

Bob: 43:31

it guys. The three of us. That's hilarious. Like I don't get shit.

Britt: 43:36

Yeah, yeah,

Bob: 43:37

yeah. I refuse to

Lindsey: 43:38

accept that. Yeah, and then we can, that's like, that's how I see my like, um, spiritual ego or whatever you want to call it. That's how I see it show up where it's like, oh, this is, this is not separate. But, like, the other thing doesn't fit in, and then... It's bullshit. Sorry. Sorry that part of me, but it just

Bob: 44:00

doesn't work. You're so right. Yeah, the, the, the last chapter of my book, spoiler alert, I think the title is, uh, Liberation is True Forgiveness, which is something that, of course, Miracles talks about, something that Byron Katie talks about, with her. Um, she's a enlightened queen. Yeah. She's a California

Lindsey: 44:19

at the health food store. I had, I had a fangirl moment. I was like, Oh my God, it's Byron

Bob: 44:24

Katie. She was in the grocery store by herself.

Lindsey: 44:28

She was with, um, what's her partner's name? Steven. Steven. Steven. You saw the power couple of. Yes, I was like, Oh my gosh, they're getting something from the hot

Bob: 44:36

bar. Oh my gosh, that's so funny. You wouldn't

Britt: 44:38

believe all the people. We'll talk about that on

Bob: 44:40

air. Oh, the O Hi, the O Hi. Uh,

Lindsey: 44:43

Spire and Katie. Celebrity sightings. The work, one of the things that changed my life of the millions of things. She says,

Bob: 44:49

if, if you look at someone building a bomb that is so ready to blow up other people for what they believe. If you believed what they believe. Wouldn't you be building a bomb too? You know, it's like just this level of like everyone is Just we're all just walking around doing what we think is the best, you know We're doing our best and so like having this radical acceptance is the way out It seems like of just you know, that's the veil breaker Recipe is just saying, okay, cool. Everybody is doing exactly what they think is best for them in this moment. And the first reactive thing I would say to that is, this is why it's the last chapter of the book. There's a lot of buildup. I don't open with that because there's some foundational stuff you got to understand about spirituality and ethics. And. And also service, you know, I think one of the biggest misconceptions, I mean, maybe this is something you heard Britain you're in those days in terms of your issues of spirituality is that it's apathetic, you know, or that it's kind of into an individualistic that it's just like, oh, you're just sitting on a cushion, man, and the world is burning. And, you know, all of my teachers kind of living and passed on, um, have been very clear. The scriptures are very clear that it's you, we act to relieve suffering. And when you get further along the spiritual path, it, it, it, it becomes more natural. You generate compassion through your spiritual work, whether it's meditation, yoga, you know, creative work, service work, whatever it may be, uh, psychedelic work, you, you self inquiry. You generate compassion and you kind of become this engine that has this limitless energy. I'm not there yet My mirror has plenty of dust on it that I'm polishing off. But you know, the real masters are tend to be very active They're very serviceful. They're very healthy bodhisattva is a term in Buddhism, which means compassion for all beings Acting out of that. So it's a funny paradox, you know, it's like You're accepting everyone for where they are and at the same time you're working for the benefit of every person and you're It doesn't mean that you just let you know Well people say like oh, so you just let them come into your house and take your stuff And it's just like no you can still believe in jail and you'll have compassion and love for the people in jail and They, you know, you're preventing innocent people from being hurt, but at the same time, the people who caused that harm, they're suffering. That's why they caused the

Lindsey: 47:39

harm. Oh, yeah. That, I mean, that's like, that's what mindfulness is. You can't just be aware without compassion. It's the two wings that work together and you can't just have compassion without awareness. Or then maybe you will be like, all right, just come in. And that's a Ram Dass story, too, where he's like. The woman says to him, Oh, I would, I realized that I would let this homeless person just like come live with me if I didn't have like some awareness around it.

Bob: 48:07

Totally. Yeah, you can give and give and give. I mean, Karma Yoga is, um, talked about in the Gita, which is one of the oldest documents in civilization, guys. It comes from the Mahabharata, which is 10 times. The Homeric Epics. It's got some decent amounts of words and letters and characters in there. I have not read it. Um, I've read the Cliff Notes, um, but within the Mahabharata, this epic Homeric tale of Um, wars and families and loves and there is a brief moment between two characters. I'm sure you guys know this, but just context for anybody in the audience. Um, it's between Krishna and Arjuna, uh, at the, at the battlefront, uh, before this big war is to take place. And, um, the yogi masters interpret the war. to be a symbolic war, uh, in ourselves. Um, there's pretty decent historical evidence that, um, it's called the Kurukshetra War, um, actually took place. But it's both, you know, it's historical. It's like the Bible, like it's historical, um, archive chronicling, but it's also symbolic allegory and to ourselves and, um, anyway, it's eighteen chapters. You can read the Bhagavad Gita in a few days. Uh, and you'll take a lifetime to understand it, but, uh, it's very good. And, um, karma yoga is something that Krishna tells Arjuna about karma means action and yoga means, uh, union, kind of the, the union of action, the divine union of, um, soulful action and, um. What he says is that there's really two things to avoid, um, in terms of karma. One is identification with being the doer. So, I'm not the role. I'm, I'm behind the role. I'm actually just doing the action. Um, I think this is sometimes called out or, you know, poked fun at. For example, when Mike Missionaries or whatever go to, you know, Haiti and, you know, pick up a tree off the ground and then take a picture and they, you know, kind of get the egoic gratification for doing something that they're not really, you know, doing or whatever. That's a kind of an example of that person saying, I'm do, I'm this do gooder, um, which Krishna says. That's pretty empty. You're just doing the work. Don't focus on being the doer. He's the doer, right? And then secondarily, don't be attached to the outcome. That one is very tough because we are all attached to all outcomes all the time. But, you know, I think what I say in the book is you could feed a thousand people every day for a hundred years and the minute you stop, there's going to be hungry bellies. You still feed people. You still do the work. You still serve from this place of devotion, but your happiness or your satisfaction should be detached from the outcome. You know, again, I find that very useful. I think there's a lot of kind of, there's a lot of activism right now, which is inspiring. I think the last few years, it's been really beautiful to see all these people becoming passionate about changing things for the better and also be. careful and aware of that kind of activist anger that can burn us up. Ram Dass talks a lot about that, about people being at a peace rally and being so angry. You know, the kind of irony of that. So,

Lindsey: 52:02

yeah. Well, that Maharaji. And, you know, you've said it several times, like his whole teaching is, how do you get enlightened, feed people? Serve people, love everyone, all that. And, and he would like do the, he would like have these little teachings with people that he could sense were kind of caught up in it. And the teaching would be so behind the scenes. Subtle. It's not like sitting them down. Personalized. It's not, you're not coming into the principal's office. Yeah. But it's just like this way of like, oh, okay, now I see why. I, now I see, I see like the bigger picture.

Bob: 52:42

Exactly. And that's, you know, I think in my studies of spiritual teachers and saints and things like that, the, the, the guruist of the gurus don't typically write or speak that much. Maharaj is a great example. He wrote this many books. He really doesn't have. A lot to say, usually. He didn't even make a

Lindsey: 53:04

course. He

Britt: 53:05

didn't

Bob: 53:06

make a workshop. That's funny. He apparently did write the diary. Have y'all heard that story? Tell me about it. He would write a diary and it just said Ram, Ram, Ram. Ram, Ram,

Lindsey: 53:17

Ram. I think it's in the back of Whispers in the Heart. It's just a copy of

Bob: 53:24

his diary. Oh, it's so good. His pages. It's beautiful. Yeah, so then he wasn't too prolific. You know, it's like the second gen is who carries the story. It's the Plato and Socrates. It's Jesus's gospel writers. You know, it's like the, the master doesn't, the master is just embodying this place of unity consciousness, unconditional love, you know, complete transcendence of separation land. And, you know, the people kind of. around that person are so transformed by that presence, by that energy. It seems pretty challenging to not want to chronicle it and share it with as many people as possible. Right.

Britt: 54:10

So we've been hanging out with Raghu Marcus and... He's always, he'll always tell a story about Maharaji, but it'll always be like, he didn't really say much. That's just like, common. He didn't say much. All of the teachings were very profound, but he wasn't lecturing anyone. Everything was just through like, real life.

Bob: 54:32

Couple little practical moments. Apple falling off the table, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's totally trans. Rago Marcus has been telling those stories for 50 years or 60

Lindsey: 54:46

years. So he's like, it wasn't

Bob: 54:47

a big deal. Yeah, yeah, it wasn't a big deal. It is a completely altered his entire incarnation. Irrevocably. Miracle of Love is really great, but it's also kind of like, it's subtle. You know, it's like little subtle moments. It's a thousand stories. It's all these different stories and Those guys put together about Maharaji. It's great, but it's it's Yeah, it's kind of like, you got to be into it, you know, that's not a book that's going to like, take somebody, you know, off of Christopher Hitchens YouTube or whatever, you know, it's like, it's you got to be somebody who's already a fan.

Lindsey: 55:27

Yeah. Well, and it's so interesting of like, who becomes a fan, because it doesn't really make sense. You know what I mean? So you do it like it does feel true that like You don't know about Maharaji until, like, he decides. Right, right, right. Until he decides. And I know that, like, someone's going to hear that and be like, Ugh, kind of going back to, like, the magical or whatever. But that's the thing about Maharaji is, like, and Jesus. It's a little bit crazy. These people that, that, like, performed miracles, and whether that is allegory or real or it's somewhere in between, and yet, really, that didn't even matter. Doesn't matter. That's kind of like the ad totally for you to be like, come on, come here, come inside. That's like the, that's like the, um, smoke bomb for the magic show. It's like the real thing is how did you make that card disappeared? Not the, not if it really poofed into thin air or not. What's that?

Bob: 56:27

That's so true. What's that? Shirty side. Baba. I think he said that Ramdas closely says, um, miracles are, I give them what I, what they want. So they want what I give. So, you know, like, he's, he was totally aware of that. It's like the miracles are just parlor tricks. It's even called, they're called Siddhis. Um, you know, to kind of continue that, uh, S I D D H I, which the ancient Hindu literature talks about. And, um, like, yeah, all the masters. Ramakrishna, in particular, was, uh, is a very high being. Highly recommend studying him. Um, this ecstatic. Some devotees consider him an avatar. He might as well be, to me, honestly. And he warns against cities. I mean, basically, they're a distraction. They're kind of a, you know, you can get caught up in their, in their power in the world. But, you know, it's a kind of ego judgment trap, again. It's like, oh, no, that's, what you want is the divine connection. What you want is unity, because That's the, that's the real gold, you know, that's the real, that's really the only thing worth thirsting for, everything else is just sand through the fingers.

Britt: 57:37

Right. I could, I, so I could get caught, I could talk for the rest of this episode about Eastern stuff. But I have a question for you. So as someone who has, um, kind of pushed away religion for most of my life, I'm curious how, how people like me could find out more about Jesus in,

Bob: 57:59

in a way that I guess they can sift through all the BS.

Britt: 58:03

You know, like, more, more realistic

Bob: 58:05

versions of what Jesus was. Yeah, great questions. Um, I mean, this is so shameful, but my book is a good start. Um, Oh, no, absolutely. I do, I do spend about 80 pages on trying to do that. Yeah. Cause I, you know, step one is basically Bible is not infallible. That's what Christians and recovering Christian, you know, that group needs to understand is that's just, that's just silly. You know, Bible scholarship of the last 150 years. Um, it's, it's really impressive. I mean, these, these men and women since about the middle 1800s have really studied, studied, kind of started with this guy, Alfred Schweitzer. who's, you know, one of the early fathers of modern Bible scholarship. He was a Nobel Peace Prize winner, a fascinating guy. Um, but it's called the quest for the historical Jesus is kind of how it's described sometimes to your point. And, and even the Jefferson Bible, you know, Thomas Jefferson and kind of a lot of the enlightenment era thinkers, Jefferson took out all the miracles. From the New Testament. So he just his Bible was like this thick It's just what Surma the mountain kind of the teachings and so there's that that's this isn't new you know, it's it's been a couple hundred years a very diligent scholarship and so So yeah, we you know, these guys really study it I'll say I'll say briefly kind of one thing I talked about in the book that is in line with modern day Bible scholarship Which is when you're in church and you read the Bible you do what's called a horizontal reading You start with the beginning of Matthew, read the end of Matthew, and you start with the beginning of Mark, read the end of Mark. You go, even though Mark was historically earlier, they put Matthew first because of the birth narrative. Anyway, you know, you're going A to Z on these Gospels because that's how you read a story. But what scholarship does, and it all sounds similar, you know, it's like Jesus, he's baptized, he's teaches, he's crucified, etc. When you do what Bible scholars do, which is called vertical reading, you take the same event in multiple Gospels. There's four Gospels. Three are pretty close to each other in terms of plot points, events. Um, although the Jesus character themselves are very different, and that's a fun aspect in Bible scholarship too. John is... So different than, than the three synoptics is what they're called, the synoptic gospel. But yeah, what, what Byron's Fellowship has done is they'll say, here's this event in Mark. Here's this event in Matthew. Here's this event in Luke. Let's compare them. Uh, we'll compare them from a kind of plot point standpoint. We'll compare them from a descriptions and kind of how it's framed. You know, one of the, uh, you know, for example, in Mark, he's Kind of this misunderstood desert preacher. Nobody can really make sense of him in some capacity. People don't really get him as much. Well, Mark's the first one in John, he's the king of the universe. I mean, it's, it's a fascinating kind of evolution of the Jesus character. And when I say Jesus character, to be clear, I'm not. Suggesting that Jesus of Nazareth, uh, didn't walk the earth, I firmly believe he did, and I, we have, there's a lot of historic, good historical scholars, Christian and non Christian, who assert his reality as a, as a man, but, um, in the Gospels, there's different characters, um, and so, one Bible scholar says that the Jesus of Mark wouldn't recognize the Jesus of John, um, they're so, they're so different as, as terms of how they kind of Walk around and talk about themselves and so on and so I you know, I'm kind of my book is like a 101 of this I think there's a there's a really great Bible scholar. I really like Bart Ehrman professor Ehrman at UNC Chapel Hill. He's written a lot of but he's done what a lot of scholars do Uh, don't do, which is write successful kind of public books. So he's a great start. If you really want to dig in, um, misquoting Jesus, I love. And then I, one of my, uh, old professors, uh, L. Michael White, I reference, he wrote, um, scripting Jesus and from Jesus to Christianity, I'm happy to point people to, you know, folks that spend their lives kind of in these texts. And then I'd say secondarily to answer your question, Brett, the Eastern guys. Um, you know, Tek n Hanh wrote Living Buddha, living Christ. Yogananda wrote The Yoga of Jesus. Uh, Swami Prove. Nanda wrote the Sermon on the Mount according to Vedante. Which is amazing that nobody talks about. And so, those are, that was super helpful for me. And I, I'm just condensing. I'm condensing the masters and the scholars in a hopefully accessible way. Cause he's great. You know, again, back to your question. It's like, that guy's cool. All of this later, distorted, bizarro stuff. Some of which has some validity, some of which doesn't. Um, really distorts the guy and so it's a, it's a real honor for me to help to try to uncover some of that. Awesome. So,

Britt: 1:03:23

let me take a sharp turn here and Yeah. When did you discover plant medicine and how did that

Bob: 1:03:29

inform, uh, I guess your spiritual life? I am tripping so hard right now. No, um. Laughter. You're just really good at it now. Yeah, can you tell? Um, Um, big fan, you know, I, um, college, I, Definitely did it at a party first, which is wrong. Um, I do, you know, the Terrence McKenna and the Tim Leary stuff, like set and setting, I think is like number one in terms of this is a sacred thing, and you should, Americans take psychedelics at either a party or a festival. Which are like the two worst literal environments to take this stuff and they're like, Oh, what, you know, and people are scared of it. I mean, I have friends even that like super hesitant about it now and it's because they've tripped really hard and had bad trips of bad environments and that's. You know, it's what happens when you miss mistreat her, but yeah, no indigenous plants, uh, you know, they've been used as tools and they, they, what they do is they break down boundaries for a brief period, which is, can be very valuable. Um, it's not, they're not for everybody and they're not the end all be all either. You know, I think that's a big theme of Ram Dass's work is to say, Hey, you know, a lot of people from hippie days. And I think even a lot of people now guys, and kind of the psychedelic renaissance are very into them. And, um, they're mostly just there. They can be a very powerful tool in awakening. Um, but yeah, done responsibly. And I feel like I'm like a, giving a PSA here, but, uh, uh, but I'm a fan. I like my, these days I'm more of a microdose guy to just enjoy a sunset or the sound of the. Wind on the leaves. And I'll get inspired and write something. But, yeah, yeah. I'm a fan. I've had a handful of trips. Nothing too crazy.

Lindsey: 1:05:34

Yeah, yeah, I think it is. I'm glad you said that like there's I mean, it's so true. It's just it's not the only thing. And it's flashy. So it can be like, this is the thing like, and then it just like another one of those. It's not the miracle. It's not the magic trick. It's like the thing behind

Britt: 1:05:54

it. Right. That's come up a lot on the podcast is how important integration is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With doing it. And I will say like First few times I took it, it wouldn't, wasn't at a festival or anything, but it definitely wasn't in a way that I was trying to, like a party setting or something? Yeah, a party. I wasn't trying to find some deeper meaning, but that opened me up to like, oh shit, there's something deeper

Lindsey: 1:06:16

here. Yeah, man, this is so random and like completely off topic, but like what? When I did acid when I was like 17, it in the weirdest way, like opened up a doorway. That suddenly Christianity didn't make sense, but like it turned something else on in me that just made me kind of like believe in something that I'd actually didn't even realize for a long time. Anyway, so it can't it is it is super relevant and it's just and it's just like not the only thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To me, it gets a little like It's a

Bob: 1:06:49

gateway drug, if you will. Yeah,

Lindsey: 1:06:53

exactly, exactly. Yeah, and then there's, you know, people that have done like a thousand sits or whatever. That's what they're doing, and that's great. And I'm looking for the other, the other thing. The gateway drug, exactly.

Bob: 1:07:06

That's funny. The Alan Watts quote is the best, where it's like, you take, the biologist takes his eye off the microscope and takes notes. You know, it's like, you can't just be staring at the molecules for a thousand hours of your life, like, just, you know, or get the message, hang up the phone, you know, it's like, this is to teach you something and, you know, whenever I'm like in a rut, and I think that's why, again, microdosing, it's If I'm like in a funk, it will help me get out of it, you know, I, I almost kind of consider very mild doses of psilocybin to be like an anxiety medicine almost, I mean, it's, there's, there's multiple uses here, it's like, that's on the low end, the high end is if you want to break the veil of separation land and see the true reality for a minute, great, in a safe space, not operating heavy machinery, and then the low doses, can just be a mild, you know, energy shift, uh, tone, tone shift. So highly, highly, uh, support. I think from a legal standpoint, it's incredibly frustrating that. We're still, you know, it's just so stupid in America, but the taboo going away is good, you know The fact that the taboo is going away culturally. Thank you artists and musicians and philosophers and spiritual people for the last 50 years for hacking away at this BS In America because it should be legal. It should be regulated all these things. Everyone should have access to it. That is a Sound mind and legal age, etc. But, um, but yeah, it's just, yeah, it's not, you still have to walk through the door.

Lindsey: 1:08:54

Yeah. And then keep, keep it churning, you know, totally. I just want to talk about reincarnation. Oh, sure. A little bit. Just, just one more little thing.

Bob: 1:09:04

Yeah, no, let's do it. It's funny. I just Just one quick little thing. Just the endless wheel of Samsara and the cycling of

Lindsey: 1:09:13

lifetimes. You know how, like, this goes on, yeah, forever? Let's

Britt: 1:09:16

set a timer. Let's set a one minute

Bob: 1:09:18

timer. Reincarnation, 60 seconds, go. That's funny. Hey Siri, set a one minute time. I, I, okay, I have maybe some interesting ideas about this and maybe, maybe we do a part two? Yeah. To talk, go to the deeper episode, like we haven't been deep enough. Reincarnation. is legitimate in terms of the souls, the consciousness traveling through the incarnations. However, from the non dualist standpoint, it's also unreal. So, in non duality, there's only one. And there ever was, is, and will be this oneness of all, actually transcendent of creation. This... Dream like separation between you guys are Lindsay and Brit and those bodies over there. I'm Bob and this one, you know, this is separation land where we dream the thought of, of, of being separate. And so reincarnation, you know, I, I write about Dr. Ian Stevenson in my book, who, uh, University of Virginia, let's see 40 years, it's some crazy amount of decades of study of children who speak other languages, you know, unexplainably, or he did a lot of work to it like birthmarks that have some corresponding wound from a previous, you know, or however you were killed that carries over, you know, the The, the studies are there, you know, it's, it's, it's not, these are pioneers. It's still frowned upon, I think, by the mainstream, but mainstream science is political. And what they tend to do is, um, make people who are on the front lines of the new discovery ostracized and be called crazy. You know, a few decades later, that's the prevailing thought. So we're really in this exciting time of like quantum mechanics, you know, science of consciousness, incarnation studies, NDEs, there's like tens of thousands of NDEs, people talking about this kind of stuff, right? So there is a lot of legitimacy to, you know, having multiple incarnations in your soul's journey. And at the same time, it's also a part of the illusion. So that's my fun little asterisk. I love that. Yeah,

Lindsey: 1:11:36

yeah, because you can't like, then you're like stretching time out on a timeline. And that's not what it

Bob: 1:11:42

is, right? And if linear time is part of the dream. Yeah, exactly. Um, you know, again, Disappearance of the Universe. The title is Disappearance of the Universe because what they say is when the last being awakens to the true realization of unity, you know, the dream's over and the universe disappears. And so this entire phenomenal universe of material form is just this, you know, snap of a dream that we've already woken up from even, I mean, it gets really heady and it's tough even for me sometimes, but, um, it's a, it's a helpful framework. There's a, the last thing I'll say is in Manual for Teachers, which is the third volume of A Course in Miracles, it has text. Workbook, manual for teachers for your academic self study, style, and um, it says, you know, reincarnation, like is it true or whatever, it says reincarnation is, the only question about reincarnation that you should be concerned about is, is it useful?

Lindsey: 1:12:44

Right. Right.

Bob: 1:12:46

Which is pretty good. That's a good take. If it's useful in your understanding of breaking the thing, great. If it's not useful in that you get too concerned about your past life trauma when you were Leonardo da Vinci and da da da or whatever, like then you're lost in that. Cleopatra. Yeah, Cleopatra. Everyone's Cleopatra. Yeah. And uh, then it's not useful and just be here in this moment.

Lindsey: 1:13:12

Uh, right. What a way to end that. Yeah. And is it useful? Feels like it could be another title for your book. Like, is all, was all that shit useful? Is this useful? Like, okay, let's take the useful things and plan them. Yeah. And what's not useful? Toss it out. Toss it out. Yeah. We have, we end with. Three things. One is, is there another, is there like a new starting over for you? Is there something percolating that's Totally random, weird, that is something you want to do.

Bob: 1:13:48

Uh, yeah, I'm working on an entrepreneurial project, um, with education curriculum in mind, which I'm excited about. I'm happy to keep you guys posted. It's kind of a separate project now, but it's probably eventually going to line up with like, spiritual author stuff. It's tied to kind of comparative religion in the education world. So that's kind of what I'm focusing on now. The book is really from like, 27 to 32 for me. I'm 35 now. So kind of, yeah, I'm working on the next chapter of like, what the heck is this? How is this incarnation useful for anybody else?

Britt: 1:14:27

Nice. Amazing. Amazing. Alright, next question. What music are you loving right

Bob: 1:14:32

now? Ooh, I'm, um, Sam Evian's Time to Melt is I think 21. And, um, I don't know how to stop playing it. King Gizzard. is like a fave for me. Yeah, I really like like psych stuff. We just got back from Australia. I didn't find them though. They're playing in the US in the next month or so. They're amazing.

Lindsey: 1:14:55

Awesome. And we end with a question from each of our 8 year old twins. First one from Eli. No, this one's from Jack. What do you think is going to happen in Frozen 3?

Bob: 1:15:11

That's a really good question. I'm caught up on Frozen 1, but not Frozen 2. Um, so... And I love when you make stuff up. I think, um, Elsa becoming queen, ice queen of the world is gonna happen. Um, not just... The little town where she is.

Britt: 1:15:32

Perfect.

Bob: 1:15:35

Take over. Elsa take over.

Lindsey: 1:15:37

Yeah, Elsa takes over. Eli question, how are solar panels made? Remember, you can make

Bob: 1:15:43

this up. That's the great mystery. Um, you take a bunch of sugar and pour it on your driveway and then hose it down and put a rope around it and leave it overnight.

Lindsey: 1:15:56

I do know that that's actually real. That's true. Yeah. I'm looking it up on Wikipedia right now. Confirmed. This has been amazing. Yeah. How can people find you?

Bob: 1:16:05

Yeah. I'm Original Sin is a Lie on Instagram and TikTok. Um, I'm Original Sin is a Lie dot com, uh, first time author. Um. human on planet earth with the rest of you guys.

Lindsey: 1:16:17

Love it. This has been so good. Thank you. Thanks so much. Let's do a part two for sure. That'd be fun. Let's

Britt: 1:16:21

hang out. Let's hang out in real life sometime. Sure. Come on down to Austin.

Lindsey: 1:16:26

Yeah, we'll be there. Awesome. Thanks guys. Okay. Take care, Bob. Thank you.