Wayne | S1 Ep9 Part2 "Thought We Was Friends"

WAYNE ON YOUTUBE

The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpieces that are Ted Lasso on Apple TV+ and Wayne on YouTube.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on all things AFC Richmond.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the Lasso way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 2: 0:39

Okay, because obviously we're not done talking about the bear yet and not the bear of the TV show I will talk about that all the time, but we're talking done talking about the bear yet, um, and not the bear the tv show I will talk about that all the time, but we're talking about man versus bear. I need to specifically mention that, uh, my older sister, maureen, after listening to our discussion about the bear, texted me that, uh, she wanted to, yes, and that, yes, I was correct when I said the thing about the statistics involving men. And also there's an instagram. I need to find it. I don't know the poor guy's name, but basically he took the current stats and extrapolated it and showed that actually, even if we had as many bears as we do men, and if we had as many bear encounters, men are still attacking women at higher rates than bears would like sweet jesus, when you do the math and also.

Speaker 2: 1:26

I'm sorry, go ahead, this is painful to hear.

Speaker 3: 1:29

Oh, my God.

Speaker 2: 1:30

But this is the fucking thing. My point was men were so sure of the objectivity of their own opinion that they felt for sure bears must be more dangerous.

Speaker 2: 1:40

For sure, and then we showed them the statistics and they're like those statistics are wrong. And then we extrapolated the statistics and they're like it still doesn't feel right. And they don't understand that when they say like, oh well, you're hysterical, you have no idea how dangerous men are, we're like no dude, you're hysterical, you have no idea how dangerous men actually are. So those things are true and also it's part of the men being objective whereas women are subjective, and that's a whole issue. But, as my sister pointed out, it is also about the physical realities of feeling afraid when you see strange men. As a woman, like, not just that, it is what you were thinking.

Speaker 2: 2:20

The question was which, who do you feel more comfortable with and the do you feel more comfortable with and the? Who you feel more comfortable with? Like the physical reaction, what your body says, because your body remembers the trauma. Your body says dudes aren't safe and um, because god and her terrible sense of humor. Uh, friday night I went over to a friend's place and because we're old, the the night was over by 10. So at 10 o'clock I was like I'm gonna go home and go to sleep. Time for bed.

Speaker 3: 2:50

Right right.

Speaker 2: 2:51

I get a lift. Sometimes, when you get into a lift or a cab or whatever, the driver is like, this person doesn't want to listen to this music. I'm going to put on some Taylor Swift and I don't want to hear Taylor Swift, but I appreciate that he's picking up the right vibe. This guy didn't put on Taylor Swift. Instead, he said where are you going? Are you going out? Are you going to go party? Going to go get some drinks, going to go dancing?

Speaker 2: 3:11

And I'm like no, I'm a 40 year old white woman wearing what somebody referred to as an Inspector Gadget trench coat, like I'm going home, my night is over. And he was like no. And he was like no, you got to go out, you got to have fun, you got to get some drinks, you got to do this and blah, blah, blah Got to go have fun. I think he was trying to be friendly, but I hate when people tell women what to do. Don't tell us. Even if you think it's smart, don't tell us what to do. And I was like no, no, no, no, I mean, you should smile more.

Speaker 2: 3:41

We should smile more.

Speaker 3: 3:42

I know, yeah, I mean seriously, that's just objectively true obviously.

Speaker 2: 3:47

Right.

Speaker 3: 3:48

Yeah, sorry, guys, sorry.

Speaker 2: 3:49

So he was saying like you got to do all these things and blah, blah, blah and everything else, and I was like no, I was like listen, it's my bedtime.

Speaker 2: 4:00

I was like I got to go home and go to sleep and at that point he gestured at his phone and he was like oh so, is that where you live? And I immediately got scared. Not that I was thinking about it, not that I was like, oh no, this is danger now, but just my body was like my heart rate elevated. I was like, oh, you are pointing out that you know where I live, what my address is. And before I could even think about it, I said, oh no, I live around there. That's the address of the store that they recommend as a pickup. So that's just what I put in because it's easier. I'm sure that he didn't mean anything by it. I'm sure that he didn't. I should also mention, as we continue talking, because at this point I was like, well, I'm not going to not talk, we have to keep talking in order to make this light and fun.

Speaker 2: 4:44

So, as we kept talking, he said he's originally from Mexico City. I would like to say I understand that Latin culture is very like yeah, come on, come over to the house, come like, hang out.

Speaker 3: 4:55

We're going to go yeah. Different energy, yeah.

Speaker 2: 4:58

But one of the things he said was, oh, you've got to visit Mexico City. And I was like, I'm sure I've heard it's lovely. He was like, yeah, you got to go, I'll take you. I was like, sir, you were driving me around in your car. You can't say that you're going to take me to a place that I was not planning on going. Like, again, I don't, it doesn't matter if he was dangerous.

Speaker 2: 5:19

I felt what I felt was ah, goddammit. Also, I didn't want to be hit on and like all these other things, sure, sure, sure. So at this point I had to start in with the oh well, my boyfriend and I went to cancun that's not real mexico, but like we've been there, blah blah and he was like, oh, so you're not married? And I was like no, but we've been together for a long time. You know, when you live together and you have a dog, all of these things are lies. But I'm telling him all these things to lay the, the groundwork of right please please don't come to my house later and do anything weird.

Speaker 2: 5:52

And then, when he dropped me off, I didn't go in through my front door, I walked around to the alley in the back so that he wouldn't know exactly which building I was going into, and I didn't turn on any lights until he drove away and I don't know. There is no way at this point of proving that he was dangerous.

Speaker 2: 6:11

I'm not saying that but, I also can't say for sure that he wasn't is there a possibility that me doing all those things made him decide he wasn't going to come back at three in the morning and see if he could figure out which apartment I lived in like this? And these are all things that weren't even. It's not that I was thinking about them. It was, as my sister said, like the trauma of everything else that's ever happened and also everything that we've been taught by society that said this doesn't feel right, so you need to keep your shit safe.

Speaker 3: 6:44

I also, and it's, I would assume, immeasurable, although maybe there's somebody out there brilliant enough to measure it. What is the cumulative effect?

Speaker 3: 6:57

yep of 24 hours, seven days a week, you having to manage that, if not even consciously, like you said. Oh, my heart rate went up. Well, that that has an effect over time like one of the things I'm learning and it's a totally different thing. I don't want to change subjects, but my in my own life, in terms of you know, my traumas and whatever is like you walk around with all that cortisol pumping through you all goddamn day.

Speaker 3: 7:27

Like that has an eventual effect, like that's not like part of my, you know so I think of you saying that and I go yes, thank God you were safe that night. But also there's the commute to work in the morning, where some guy says good morning, but it feels skeevy. So your heart went up a little bit and then you walked into the building and it's like what is that guy holding the door?

Speaker 3: 7:47

like whatever the things are like I'm, as a guy I don't even know him all, I'm sure you could just say to daphne some equivalent of like so I was walking in, this guy held the door for me and she'd get something I'm not that literally, but that she'd get the message of it and be like, oh my god, god, and I'd be sitting there like what happened next, like totally clueless. I probably would have fallen asleep in that lift or Uber or whatever you were in. I probably would have taken a nap, tired, had a couple of drinks Meanwhile, you're like come on that matters.

Speaker 2: 8:20

I'm just going to go ahead and straight quote my sister's text at this point where she says and I don't mean that facts are feelings or that women feel too much or anything like that, I mean that we have been taught the reality that we need to be aware of our surroundings and trust our instinct and be aware of danger all the time, because men are fucking dangerous and we need to know that in order to survive and not all men, men are dangerous. I know none of the people listening at this point in the podcast are going to say that, but like, that's, that's the shit. We are told. The world is dangerous here. Here's a rape whistle. Your first week of college, make sure you don't go to a party by yourself. Here's a list of all the things you need to do. And then we're gaslit into saying like well, why don't you trust? Oh, you're so mean to not trust men. Like the underlying issue here is not just that women feel unsafe all the time. It is that because, also, I don't feel unsafe all the time. Like Castleton you've said, why the fuck do you leave your back door open when you walk over to the store? I'm like it'll be fine, it's probably going to be fine. I have a blatant disregard for my own safety.

Speaker 2: 9:29

This was a different instance where, for whatever reason, I was like this is not great, I don't love this. But what I couldn't do in that cab and felt safe doing was saying hey, buddy, you're making me uncomfortable, like I could not have that conversation with him, because most women can't have that conversation with most of the men that they know, most of the men that I know, even the really good ones. If I said, hey, you did something, and it made me uncomfortable, it hurt my feelings, it made me feel diminished or ignored. If I said that, many of them would not say the right thing, which is oh shit, I'm really sorry. What could I do in the future to avoid that? They will say oh, I didn't mean to do that. No, no, no, you misunderstood, that's not what I did. No, no, no. What happened was I was just being nice when I said this thing.

Speaker 4: 10:17

Sorry you got it wrong and you took it wrong, yeah.

Speaker 2: 10:20

And that second part is one of the things that is going to be so difficult to dismantle, because you could say like well, I've never raped anybody and I'm like OK, but when a woman presented you with something that you did that hurt her feelings, how did you react to her? Did you validate what she was saying, did you accept that what she was saying was accurate and that you had in fact fucked something up, or did you say like, oh no, you just don't understand what I was doing?

Speaker 3: 10:46

Yeah, everything you said, obviously, and not just weighted input. Yes, and I think, if you don't know what it is to be afraid not afraid in a specific instance, oh, this person is heading out to harm me but like, as I step out of my front door, I am stepping into a dangerous, potentially hostile world I think there's just a lot of and this is also not something men are taught there's just a lot of need to just listen for a while and I feel like, even for guys who are trying and want to be getting it and I include myself in this a desire to come to a conclusion, and I think this shit is so deep that we need to like keep listening for a while. Like I'm not even sure I understand all the questions that need answering based on this conversation that has unfolded, it really made me stop and go like, oh my god, like the implications are huge, and even the part you're talking about, which is like the reaction to the reaction, like that.

Speaker 4: 12:08

That's what. That's the thing that comes that you know like how dare you be scared of me?

Speaker 3: 12:12

like what the fuck? Are you crazy?

Speaker 4: 12:14

how many men are butthurt over this concept? Yeah, instead of being like holy fuck, what a wake-up call is. Yeah, and some, some people are like that but, yeah, so many.

Speaker 4: 12:26

There's such a high preponderance of people disputing it or trying to shame women or whatever it's. It's my. My 18 year old daughter was on the phone with me this morning. She had her last day of her first year of college and she decided you know what I'm going to, I'm a.

Speaker 4: 12:42

She's flying home tonight and she said I'm going to go get my little brother and sister some little trinkets from the local store, you know, and she's on the phone with me, walking down like in a very sort of unlike, you know, a loturb, that's sort of in a city and um, but it's really nice, beautiful, like little cobblestone streets, it's beautiful, um. And still she's paused several times while on the phone with me to be like I gotta just hang on, gotta make sure there's no creepy dudes following me. This guy looks sketchy. I didn't like him.

Speaker 4: 13:21

Look at me from the other side of the street, you know walking and uh, and there was a great post on threads I don't have it in front of me, but it was like you know just really basically like yes, I understand some men are having a hard time accepting this, but how many times have you had to double back in your life? How many times have you had to stop in a store window. How many times have you get on your phone just in case? How many times like and it's like every woman you know has done this many?

Speaker 4: 13:49

many, many, many times women can't even get dressed in the morning. Um, without factoring in a hundred different things about what their appearance will give off, you can't like. I remember when somebody, uh woman, was saying, yeah well, I'll never wear a ponytail again, and I was like wait what? Absorbing that, what that meant.

Speaker 3: 14:07

I'm feeling like a real idiot right now, because I'm like what?

Speaker 4: 14:11

Yeah, but if you think about it, coach, it's a lot of the same reason why Boss and I think this is like so. This is why we do. Holy fuck, that's dark.

Speaker 1: 14:22

Yeah, listen, remember what Boss said about panties and how there's no right age to call it one thing or the other.

Speaker 4: 14:28

you're either, boss, what is it? One is one is um, infantilizing and the other one is over, overly sexualized. Right, is that what it is? So, so there are. There are things that women would prefer, like throw your hair up in a ponytail, whatever, but no, because it sends a certain message and the amount of thought, if you're a dude, you put on whatever the fuck is closest to you, and there is zero. So this is important, because I'm glad you brought this up, boss, and actually I hate hearing it. I hate hearing that you went through that and I couldn't be next to you like a fucking gruff barbarian just to just to shut this shit down and listen. He could have been just the nicest right, that's the thing, that's the thing there's a trauma response right there's a trauma response

Speaker 4: 15:14

yep, I have a trauma response listening to it in the past. Yep, and then thinking about oh my god, I wish, but. But I will say that I spent the vast majority of my life, like four-fifths of my life, being on the wrong side of every one of these equations. Not like I was an overt stalker or anything, but I had never thought about it, never. You know just so much of our upbringing. Um, even even the women of my life who raised me, raised me to be sort of machiavellian and you know you're the man like oh, it's her, I'll let her mother worry about that. You know, you're my son, you're not my daughter, all the different things that are cooked into this yeah, right, and um so, yes, um, just the response to the bear versus man thing.

Speaker 4: 16:06

You go, we have a long long, long road ahead, but it starts, you know, starts, with each one of us trying to do this and having daily sort of. It's funny. I posted something, I forwarded something where it was like, oh, here are things that men do. Oh god, I forget what it was, but it was like how, how men adjust to situations negatively. So it's like, oh, they, we avoid, we withdraw, we can, you know, hold our, hold our partners hostage like different little things or whatever, um, and I forwarded it like a good samaritan, like, yeah, yeah look at stupid men.

Speaker 4: 16:48

And juliana said something to me I didn't like and I was like oh, really like. And then I was like wait I just did number five. I didn't even yeah, real like, and it wasn't like I did it like over the thing.

Speaker 3: 16:58

But I like.

Speaker 4: 16:59

But you see, like, yeah, uh-huh, yeah, I was like I just, I'm like, oh my God, so it just requires, you know, sort of daily practice at, yes, you know, exercising these muscles, because so many of us were conditioned in a different a world that, thank God, you know, doesn't exist in the same way as it used to. And there are, you know, ways for us to improve.

Speaker 3: 17:26

So two things as you say. That one is, um, I, I, as this question has been asked, I was sharing, uh, I was sharing with the two of you, as you know, but is this? I want to change the answer, and so I've been conspiring and more on this soon, buttercups and other listeners, but no, seriously, actively, like making it a part. I want to be a part of it, but the very least helping a starter movement that makes it.

Speaker 3: 18:08

So at some point we societally could ask this question and have the answer be obvious in the opposite direction, like I actually think that is a goal. And so, anyway, I'm, I'm. I'm actually very excited about that in part, coach, because I think the work that guys like you and I can do, which is what you just did, which is to say not huh, ain't I a great guy? I haven't raped anybody in 78 days Like that's a fucking thing to be proud of.

Speaker 4: 18:35

It's like that horrible workplace accident Exactly. Hey look at me, pat me on the back.

Speaker 3: 18:40

Hey look at you know, look at us, is, is that yeah? Hey, look at us, yeah, like that's not. And we're constantly going oh my God, I just did number five, I need to work on that. And creating supportive systems amongst men. To one say, hey, I hate to break it to you, but you just did number five, so you know, tighten up. And then also, hey, man, I just did number five, can we talk about it for a second, because I got to figure out how to be better about that. Yeah, but that's the like we got to move to that stuff. Like this idea that like I didn't, you know, do this heinous crime against humanity, so I guess I deserve a fucking medal. Like we got to get that out of here.

Speaker 2: 19:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no, no for sure. Just real quick on that. I want to mention, um, the instagram video that I pointed out about statistics. That is, uh, dylan michael white on instagram. If anybody wants to go, follow him. Um, and then the second thing I want to say is somebody pointed out that having this conversation is extremely important and also having it in these ways where it's like, oh shit, I did, number, did number five, not not just like I've never committed a violent crime, but like really getting in there knowing that. To that end, I also want to specify, luckily, somebody on threads, a white lady said hey, white women. By the way, we, we sometimes are the man in that situation. Sometimes for especially black people, people color in general, we're, we're the man and they, they are more scared of us than the bear and we need to keep that in mind. We can't whoa right yeah, what was like?

Speaker 3: 20:16

what was the response to that? That is that's, that's. Whoever said that has a level of like insight and that is whoa yeah that was luckily.

Speaker 2: 20:28

Most of it was like either oh wow or fuck yes, you're right. Or I did see one, a black woman's account. I can't remember the name right now, but she was like this white lady gathering all of her people together. Thank, like this. This is phenomenal. Look at her gather up all the white women. And I was like, oh okay, good, like, and I, yeah, I I remember that feeling from like 2017 ish, where women of color were finally like hey, white ladies, 56 of you voted for trump.

Speaker 4: 20:57

Like get your shit together. That was that was my next joke was like if she can do that, let's get her.

Speaker 3: 21:02

Get white women to vote vote right, yeah, yeah but like I mean it's, it's yeah, and I and I felt it.

Speaker 2: 21:08

I was like no, no, no, but I'm, I'm a good one, but I, I voted, I did it right, I did, and so even I needed to like, deconstruct that shit and be like no, it's not about me, it is overall. We need to look at the larger systems here.

Speaker 3: 21:23

I know I've mentioned it before, but somebody who mentored me in terms of DEI his black man, probably about 10 years older than me, roughly and he really opened my eyes to how important it was to check yourself first Where's my privilege? Yep, where am I stepping in it? Because we are all just fucking experts in all the ways that everybody else sucks and we are oppressed. And until you start looking at the world through the eyes of's my privilege, how can I be creating equity? It's always like the oppression olympics. I don't want to take us. We've had this conversation, so I don't want to take us down this road.

Speaker 3: 22:11

But I will point out that I just and I'm sure I'm going to get flamed for it, but I was on a thread with some folks who point out that ucla apparently this happened and I I believe that it happened some pro-Palestinian protesters beat some women up. I don't know all the details of it, but that's the basics of it. Now I've also seen that some pro like the counter protesters, whatever you want to call that, but the counter protesters attacked some UCLA reporters, so like there have been physical attacks in both directions. But I am in enough conversations. I have observed enough that I am seeing that people who are on one side are only talking about this attack and people on the other side are only, and I'm like this is the problem.

Speaker 4: 23:07

Yeah, this right here is the fucking problem thousands of years with this very specific conflict. Yeah, I'm like are you?

Speaker 3: 23:13

what we all need to be saying is this cannot stand. Neither of these can stand right, and it doesn't matter which attack happened first, I don't. This can't stand until we can do that Right. So anyway, in terms of this conversation we are in with man versus beer, I just think it's like shouldn't the goal just be that we should all be able to come and go with a reasonable sense of safety, and certainly that nothing like about us sense of safety, and certainly that nothing like about us bad things are going to happen in the world, but it shouldn't be that be because of the color of my skin or what chromosomes I happen to be born with, that I am at some greater danger on a regular basis and I'd like I don't know, it feels pollyannish, but I also feel like it's the only real answer to all of this.

Speaker 2: 24:04

No, it's oddly enough the time when both sides actually would be beneficial. There are times where people can. You don't understand the context to death. Sometimes the context is extremely important and sometimes the context is you don't get to beat people at a peaceful protest, you just don't get to regardless.

Speaker 3: 24:24

Aw, right, seriously, though, right, though, right. I mean, you get the sense that from some people they're like but, but I'm right and I'm like, yeah, but I don't care, like you can't, I don't care that you think you're right, like, of course, you think you're right, that's why you're here. Yeah, like what the fuck?

Speaker 2: 24:40

uh, also, just because I want to make sure to call her out also on threads, the woman that said, hey, fellow white ladies, uh, ladies, is Gwen Michelle, michelle with one L and Gwen with a Y and two Ns, or I follow her and I reposted so you can find her through me.

Speaker 4: 24:57

Yeah, can you post that on the community site, boss? Yes, I will. Yeah, thank you, it's a work in progress. I remember when I started to realize that I do this thing as a writer, where I scan people and I just look at somebody and I go boop a quick up and down men and women but I realized, wait a second, the women can't tell the difference, they don't know I'm inputting their shoes't tell the they don't know.

Speaker 3: 25:25

I'm like oh, this guy's a writer shoes as, yeah, they don't know that, right.

Speaker 4: 25:28

So I had to train myself to like, if I'm walking and there's a woman, uh, especially with my look, because I look like, uh, like, um, uh, like I might be like the sergeant at arms of your local militia, it's just luckily, luckily, how the look. I was born into boy, it's great boy, howdy, um. But I always like, if I'm walking and and I'm like there's a woman coming towards me and I'm on the other way, I, I just don't, you know, like, make sure, like I, just I want to, I move out of the way. I, I avert my whatever, like she doesn't have to say hi to me, she's, I don't want her to be threatened. I drop my shoulders as much as possible. I'm just like, just, you know what I mean. Try to give her as much safety as possible, you know. I don't have to make eye contact and say, hey, how are you today? Like, no, she doesn't owe me that she owes, she doesn't owe me anything. She just wants to get from a to b, um, in a, in a, as much of a straight line as she can, without uh creeps on the way, and, however, I can make her day better, stranger woman. You know what I mean. That that, then I'm happy to do that.

Speaker 4: 26:31

So, um, yeah, it's the little things in any to be mindful of these, these moments. And you know I won't get into like an elevator with with you know, um, like a woman by herself, with things like that. I don't want any, I just don't want anyone to feel whatever and I can get the next goddamn elevator. You know it's not, I can take the stairs, it's not. There's just little choices you can make on a daily basis where you're like, okay, if I can make this a tiny bit better, like a tiny bit better. Especially, I am mindful of how I do look like it's not like I'm a walking threat level alpha but I have a beard and stocky. It's just like they don't know, people don't know.

Speaker 4: 27:15

No, seriously, you just have to be mindful of it.

Speaker 3: 27:18

I was laughing at one point. I was in a store, wherever I was, but I had Biggie with me and I could just see people light up Because he's little and he's cute and he's the friendliest thing ever. I'm like they don't know you, Would you stop it? But he loves everybody, right. But I see people relax. I've watched it happen and I joke about it like, oh, every black man should get one. I'm like every black man should get a Maltese.

Speaker 4: 27:46

Like that should be like a little adorable puppy you graduate junior high school.

Speaker 3: 27:49

They're like here you go.

Speaker 4: 27:51

Take that with you everywhere you go. Here's your diploma, here's your Maltese. His name is Fluffy.

Speaker 3: 27:59

But yeah, like it really does make me think, think about like how do I keep that feeling at a minimum, like you say, like just dropping your shoulders a little bit, which is totally, but it could help, it really could help. It makes me look like I'm not making myself big right, yeah All right.

Speaker 3: 28:18

Take it easy. So, anyway, I think it's deeply important. But that thing about looking reminded me. I won't keep us away from Wayne too long, but the thing about looking and how far I've personally come and also how far I feel we need to come. I still remember distinctly as a teenager being taught by a guy how to spot when a woman's coming towards you, if she's got a big old ass, and how, because you can see from you. And most def says it in a song. He says ass so fat you can see it from the front. And I remember hearing that lyric and being like so this is something that this is like taught, yeah. And then, of course so why are we spotting it? So that when she walks by we can turn and look at this woman's ass? Yeah, 14 or 13 or whatever.

Speaker 3: 29:17

The fuck I was like what am I being taught like, and who taught it to you? And why do we all know it? And I never knew most deaf. So like, apparently everybody's just been like passing this along, like what the fuck? That's the kind of stuff that I feel like we got to catch that stuff, because I think that's like that sort of sends you down a path of like that's the first thought you have when you see a woman. It's like, well, let me check out her body parts.

Speaker 4: 29:47

Like that's well. This is like. This is the or, this is the biological impulse, that is, that is fat. There is a biological program that is in, in, in, sort of embedded in the, in the, in the.

Speaker 4: 30:03

You know the male archetype, this is literally for procreation and has kept people reproducing for eons, but in a modern society it doesn't have a place in the same way. This is why, whenever we talk about this and I know I beat this drum I'm like people do not understand testosterone. So I, I, I just it is like no drug out there. It is. It is so powerful. And until we teach young men how to cope, how to manage, how to understand what is happening to them hormonally, how what biology would direct them to do, as what biology would direct them to do, as opposed to what society expects them to do, these are big issues that are not going to be easily solved because it requires caregivers and people who are in power to sort of validate the strength of this and people seem hesitant to do. Even even talking about like masturbation is still taboo right like what are we right like?

Speaker 3: 31:15

yeah, so instead, don't.

Speaker 4: 31:17

Don't do that, don't masturbate. Whatever you do, do not masturbate. Make sure. Instead, you know, become a jihadist, and then you'll get to a place where you can have whatever 72 virgins. Yeah, whatever you know so we've got it so wrong and it's abused by oppressive systems to, you know, radicalize people. And we see it in what we think of as advanced societies, advanced civilizations, advanced structures. We see it all the time used, improperly misused for corporate reasons and things like that.

Speaker 3: 31:55

Sorry, no, no, it's this biological impulse and we're in a society now and we have to, like, deal with the impulse and go in a new direction. Right now I know it's happening in New York or it's been happened. Yeah, it's happened recently and it may be happening other places. I kind of really hope not. And it may be happening other places. I kind of really hope not. There are apparently some subset of men who are just walking through America's cities and punching random women in the face and, in addition to that being fucking horrific and me wishing I could somehow just appear at that exact moment and have quite a conversation with said man. That is so much back to caveman, bonk over the head, drag you back to my cave that it's almost comical like if I would workshop like hey, ha ha ha.

Speaker 3: 32:59

I want to write a comedy that's like we're really cavemen. What's a way we could show that? A way I would show it would be to bump, to hit a woman randomly, right and we're, and it's happening right now in our world. It's not satirical, it's not anything. It is a choice certain men are making I hadn't.

Speaker 4: 33:19

This is all news to me oh really, I'll tell you that no no, no, I'll tell you that the impulse I had you want to talk about primal impulses, when you said that it like the violent impulse, oh, I have I directed at those men I know, and how badly I want to magically appear the second, he's about to step towards some unsuspecting woman. I can't even tell you that the rage this brings. And so, boss, this is when we talk about like, oh, I give them love, yeah, yeah, till I hear that now they will. They don't get an iota of attention or love. They only get my rage and my anger and my spite and my resentment.

Speaker 4: 34:00

And you thought that is danger. When you say, oh you, you can't be a nice danger, I didn't know that was happening. It makes sense, because we're, you know, the lowest 1% of any group is fucking mind-bogglingly stupid. That and every other thing you can think of is happening. Um, but my god, that it just makes me. It makes me, it makes it does something so unhealthy I can't tell you through my whole body like I I'm like coursing with, with anger right now, the at the fact that I never heard, I had never heard that oh no, it's a thing I mean you, you're aware of it, right?

Speaker 2: 34:40

okay, yeah, I was gonna say I I'm pretty sure it's a thing yes, yeah, and you know yeah so it just to speak on a couple of the things that were mentioned, and then, at some point, this is going to be a podcast, that it should be about wayne. Maybe we'll see. We'll see what we get to, but a couple of those things, um, the first of which is I don't want to diminish the effects of testosterone, especially because, uh, specifically trans people have said like moving from one to the other like uh um, I might have been a river butcher, I can't remember, but I remember a trans uh man saying I had no idea what this would be like like once that's actually what did it for me, boss

Speaker 3: 35:21

oh, that's seriously. That's where it put me over, yeah it was when, when people who were in transition were like holy fuck.

Speaker 4: 35:29

you have no idea, Because that reflected back to me what I had grown up feeling. So anyway, keep going.

Speaker 2: 35:37

So I don't want to diminish that. I do want to say that a couple of years ago, back on Twitter back when it was Twitter I tweeted information aimed at preparing women for their 40s needs to be a lot less quote how to prevent wrinkles and a lot more. You're basically a 13 year old boy now. Watch out for even the slightest breeze, because your whole day is Googling pictures of David Tennant and Good Omens. Now, because that was a thing like at that stage, like I don't think that there are.

Speaker 2: 36:09

I believe that there are plenty of women who, when they see somebody walking down the street, have similar thoughts to what men would see when they're walking down the street. I think that society doesn't encourage or allow for that, and so we are taught not to discuss those things or acknowledge them and also to tamp down those feelings, because we're supposed to be good women who don't fucking bullshit. Like, believe me, there is a female gaze and we have been staring at men and we just can't acknowledge it. So that's one part of it. The other thing is we have so many different situations where we will say, oh, oh well, men, like I'm not saying you said this, kassadin at all. I know that that isn't the fact.

Speaker 2: 36:49

Other people would say testosterone is so wild, it's such an animal impulse that this is why boys act this way. This is why men act this way. It's nature. There's something natural.

Speaker 2: 36:59

This is also why, when men get angry, oh well, they lost control and hit their wife, or lost control and hit some woman on the street they never lose control and hit their boss. That happens almost never. So they're not losing control. They're deciding where to direct the rage that they already had and didn't know what to do with, and maybe somehow society could help them figure out how to deal with that rage. But the answer is never.

Speaker 2: 37:40

Oh well, this is it's just their emotions. Like that's fucking not it. Like you said, like it doesn't matter what your emotions are. We live in a society, so we need to make sure that we are hammering home. Lots of people have those same impulses and thoughts, and most other people manage to keep their shit together and not throw a fucking tantrum like a lot of let's be honest men are doing so like. I think that it is partly acknowledging everybody's humanity when it comes to sex and violence and our worst impulses, and then also making sure that we don't give more people, give people more room than others based on societal constructs.

Speaker 3: 38:10

So we can't say, well, actually, no, it was that right. I don't want to correct you.

Speaker 4: 38:16

What did I get wrong?

Speaker 2: 38:17

I'm going to go off mic now. Yeah, how dare you.

Speaker 3: 38:21

How dare you? No, no, great, it's really. No, I mean, and I'm with you, I mean I think, sure, yeah, uh-huh, that you know what I mean. Like if daphne, you know, definitely stabbed me because she was like hot flash, like I'm not gonna be like well, you gotta understand.

Speaker 2: 38:34

Well, listen like, yeah, I mean even along with that though, the like the fact that nobody talked about postpartum depression and postpartum psychosis. Like, yes, no, obviously Daphne can't stab you. I can't stab people as much as I want to. But, and by that I mean even though I want to, not that I'm not doing it in the volume that I.

Speaker 2: 38:59

I'm doing some, but not enough. But we also don't address when it really is a problem. So, like there's a lot to work through, I'm not saying that there isn't. I think people have really good intentions. It's just. It is a matter for me of separating your own ego from these discussions. We are not saying you are a bad guy unless you are a bad guy, but we're not saying that you're a bad person for feeling these things.

Speaker 3: 39:26

We just need to talk about the ways in which they need to be handled so that people are not injured when you don't need to if I could read the world of the concept of nice guy, good guy, white, good white, because it just I feel like it always muddles these conversations. It's not a matter of nice, it's not like. It's like choices you're making and if you, if you did number five, then address that and it's not like negating that. You did number five because you're in the nice guy category and we do it all the time and it's totally in the way.

Speaker 4: 40:10

Pretty sure what I heard was if I could read the world of white guys, if, we could only read. Oh, what a beautiful world. It would be Thank you coach. Thank you I know, it's not that far from the truth.

Speaker 3: 40:24

We're that simple Right, but yeah.

Speaker 4: 40:26

Oh well, let's just try to keep violence where it belongs, and that's only in the gray areas of playoff hockey. It was. It was funny because you guys, I, I, I texted these two the other night, uh, last week, um, on Friday night, the other night, uh, last week, um, on friday night, uh was friday, no, saturday night, saturday night, the boston bruins won in overtime. Uh, it was a game, a game seven of the opening series. I was sure they would lose. It was the only time in my life I ever yelled they won, because I was so shocked I am, I was in my living room, my family's around me, I'm like they won. They won Like, oh my God, like I was so surprised and thrilled and and, um, and the big joke, uh, was that, um, whoever, uh, between the Bruins and the Toronto Maple Leafs who the Bruins were able to defeat, um, uh, they. It was like sort of a, it was academic, because everybody knew that the Florida Panthers, an amazing team, were waiting on deck to destroy whichever team limped into the second round.

Speaker 4: 41:34

And then, on Monday night, I was coming back from driving my son home for college and watched the Bruins' first game against the Panthers in Florida and I had. I mentioned to him. You know, most people think that the Panthers are really really good team. They're favored to go, if not win the whole thing. But you know, this is there should be in the finals, based on seating and that sort of thing. And so they scored.

Speaker 4: 42:00

First it was one, nothing against the Bruins. And my son said to me he didn't know hockey at all. He's like, oh sorry, dad, like that's probably it, you know. And then the bruins came back and and uh, scored four unanswered goals and in florida took the wind out of the the hometown fans. Um, but the reason I bring this up was I said to him, if it was two to one, if it was three to one, it's fine. It's fine Because Panthers are a very sort of very, very highly regarded team. Now that it gets to be four to one against these like sort of scrappy upstarts, right when it's like you're not, you shouldn't be beating us by this much. You shouldn't be beating us at all. But by this much I't be being us at all, but by this much I was like someone's gonna get hit. I just told him I was like I promise you, the panthers have to now punch somebody on the card I know, I know this is what I'm just saying like it has.

Speaker 4: 42:57

There has to be some type of scrum. So the panthers pull their goalie, bruins score five to one and immediately after that, you know it's like a they didn't. Actually there was no fighting. It wasn't a fight, but it was like a thing where guys took whatever opportunity they could to mix it up and let them know like we're not going to take this and I was like that's, that's the but you can. You can see it coming and I don't mind channeling it into sports as a facsimile of sort of a more primal conflict instinct.

Speaker 3: 43:33

You know what I mean? Sort of with the idea that let's have this venue where this stuff is coursing, this testosterone stuff or whatever you want to, the equivalent in terms of women's sports, own stuff or whatever you want to you know, for you know the the equivalent in terms of women's sports. Let's have this venue where we can get all that out so that we can have a decent society outside of that venue. Is that kind of your?

Speaker 4: 43:51

that's the whole thing, and so, like everybody who follows this knows, I'm a huge, huge fan of women's sports and I promise you it gets chippy in women's sport. You know what I mean. I saw I saw two girls grab each other in soccer by the Jersey and like getting each other's face and I was like, see that's, it's not limited to to the world of men, um, but it doesn't. It's not endangering anybody in the way that like the violence in society endangers people so um, if people so um.

Speaker 4: 44:25

If we can channel it into other pursuits, I think it's. I think it's healthier for everybody.

Speaker 2: 44:29

Boss, you're gonna say something, and now I just want to make sure to agree and also to uh, oh god, just in case anybody thinks women's sports can't somehow get violent. There was almost a fistfight one time when I was on the swim team. It's a no-contact sport. How the fuck, did that happen. But somebody got pissed off about one of the results and then they were shouting and yelling and Kiguri Rubix almost punched a bitch in the face and we didn't let her, we stopped her.

Speaker 2: 44:57

But I was like we never even touched you guys Swiped.

Speaker 3: 45:03

The idea to me of like turning on the local news and seeing an absolute brawl break out at a swim meet In a fucking swimming pool.

Speaker 2: 45:12

I need you to think about how terrible the punches thrown would be in a pool.

Speaker 3: 45:18

And.

Speaker 2: 45:18

I have seen people play water polo before. I know that that shit happens, but still.

Speaker 4: 45:23

Water polo is like. For those that don't know water polo before, I know that that shit happens, but still, water polo is is like um. For those that don't know water polo is is like um, it's super, the devil's sport. I don't know if anybody knows it. Under what you don't see, you know they say oh, a duck paddling underneath the water. Their feet are going for you guys under the surface of the water are getting punched, yeah, kicked, pulled down like trying to half drown the other, like it is it.

Speaker 3: 45:45

You may have been the one who told me about this, oh no.

Speaker 4: 45:49

It is monstrous what happens under the surface of the water. It's craziness.

Speaker 2: 45:55

It's basically like synchronized drowning almost You're trying to get a ball around, but people are trying to kill you yeah.

Speaker 3: 46:09

Synchronized drowning. I just pictured like bob costas announcing like after this break we'll be going to synchronize drowning all right that's great no, it really is.

Speaker 4: 46:17

Um, all right. Well, let's move from from all of this emotional security over to the lovely world of wayne, uh, where it's nothing, nothing but safety and rosebuds and and and rainbows. Um, where we left off, uh last time with part one. Uh, we had discussed, uh, I'll finish up, I'll say what, what, um, uh, the, uh, we finished, we, we finished basically on a speech, uh, fromen, uh mcnulty, uh wayne's mom, where she says um, you don't got to treat someone like shit and make them feel bad like calvin, uh, the drug dealer in residence. Uh, we're inferring that he's a drug dealer because of all the video cameras, but they never mentioned it. I think that was.

Speaker 4: 47:02

Uh, we'll find out it certainly feels intentional, I mean yeah there's something going on, right, yeah like he could be like whatever, but he lets me be who I want to be, do what I want, just so long as my ass don't get too big. Um, she gives wayne a candle.

Speaker 3: 47:15

Keep in your room or something, maybe you'll sleep better by the way, I mean the candle thing we definitely want to get to, but I think as long as my ass don't get too big, ha ha ha. Like that felt to me like one of those jokes. That like that's not a joke. Yeah, they have they. They have an agreement, tacit or otherwise. That's like you keep looking like a thing I want to have sex with. Yeah, right, like there's a, there's that.

Speaker 2: 47:39

Yeah, that didn't seem like a whole joke to me no, and I also want to make sure she was saying that Wayne Sr had all these ideas about who she should be and how she should be. It almost feels like even more of an insult that Calvin's like I don't care what kind of person you are, If you're hot, that's all I care about. Now that wow.

Speaker 3: 48:03

This is me like oh, I'm not tall enough for this ride. That went completely over my. You're right, though.

Speaker 2: 48:09

And I understand also that there is a little bit of like in my relationships. I'm like, bitch, don't try to change me. Like if the boyfriend was like, oh, you should really check into finishing your CPA, I'd be like you need to fuck right off with that. Your cpa I'd be like you need to fuck right off with that. But this is a different level of I don't. He doesn't care what I do or who I am, as long as I, my ass is good that's really very reductive.

Speaker 3: 48:34

Yeah, I, I, um, I like that you have been hitting this, you know point consistently of not telling women what to do and I think again, like in a violating number, what? If you're smarter than them, though, yeah, right, exactly, but then who's gonna guide them? But, what if?

Speaker 4: 48:55

you're full of good advice that no one listens to what if you're what?

Speaker 3: 48:58

if that's the case but that is funny daphne will and it's like an ongoing and it's very much a joke because I duck after I say it but like Daphne will say whatever, like oh, I'm gonna go for a hike now, and I'll be like I think you mean may I go for a hike now? And she just and she turns to me- you're a brave man, and then?

Speaker 3: 49:20

like yeah, believe me, it is very clear that she does not mean that and I that she does not mean that and I know she does not mean it. But yeah, like that is a theme we should probably be looking at. Like where are we, where is that going on? And, whether explicit or not, you know, anyway, all right.

Speaker 4: 49:36

We cut to. We cut to butthole Tommy Cole in the car with Orlando Zellwood. I didn't see any signs for Zellwood. Yes, you did. They're talking about passing a sign for Zellwood.

Speaker 3: 49:47

You pass it up. Doesn't that mean they were playing a name game, though I took that as like they were playing some sort of road trip game together. Is that not what was happening?

Speaker 4: 49:58

They found a Z or something. I thought it was directions. I thought they were just trying to figure out where they were, but that that that would be fun If it was a road trip game. We play a version of that when we're driving. We call it car game. It's very it's a very inventive game where we just try to see. Like that, whoever gets the farthest license plate wins.

Speaker 2: 50:18

Car game is the Dave Matthews band of naming games, that is yours.

Speaker 3: 50:24

Well, what is it? Oh, it's Car.

Speaker 2: 50:26

Game.

Speaker 4: 50:26

Yeah, it's Car Game. Whose band is it? Oh, it's.

Speaker 2: 50:28

Dave Matthews Band.

Speaker 4: 50:29

It's Dave Matthews Band.

Speaker 3: 50:31

Yeah, it's all, it is Stayed up all night and we came up with. Dave Matthews Band and Car Game.

Speaker 2: 50:38

Thinking real hard.

Speaker 4: 50:40

Oh yeah, it's white people stuff. So, yes, I didn't see any signs and I love this. If there's a sign, the GPS lady would have said it and she didn't. And Orlando says you didn't hear it because there's no service, which I was like, oh, that's such a great generational thing when it's like you know Tommy Cole wouldn't have been like sort of tuned into the service area as much as like somebody younger would have been it was growing up with like, oh no, my bars are how like?

Speaker 4: 51:10

my existence depends on how many bars I have. What's the plan anyway? We get to Ocala, he sighs, and you know how that'll be. Fine, wayne, I'm sure there'll be a trail of blood.

Speaker 3: 51:21

I laughed out loud at that line, like it's so hardened and sarcastic. But meanwhile he's going to find the kid, so he obviously cares. You know what I mean, but yeah, it's funny.

Speaker 4: 51:31

It's not that far from the truth, right? He says you know you got to stay positive. And Tommy Cole says you know, I knew Wayne's mom back in the day. She kept her name when she married Wayne's dad. She kept her name when she married Wayne's dad. What was it? What was it? He's trying to remember she was off. I mean, she was really kind of scattered Great legs though. And Orlando says what here, boss?

Speaker 2: 51:56

Please don't tell me you're trying to hit Wayne's mom.

Speaker 4: 52:00

Oh, it's, yeah, I mean I love that it's the high school student. To the principal Like oh, oh, oh, no, you're not. Like that's not what this is right. Like we're not that dude, right, yeah, it's like. No, no, no. Is this really?

Speaker 2: 52:13

something that is just occurring to you right now as we're getting closer, or was this the plan, the whole? Time was right was this way he's saying he was going for the car and actually going for his mom?

Speaker 3: 52:22

a hundred percent percent, actually, yeah.

Speaker 4: 52:24

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah. But he says no, no, it's not, she's not my type. What type is your type? Orlando asked him. And what does he say here, coach?

Speaker 3: 52:35

I only date, or better, want to date, which I thought was funny Black women, black women. I did not see that line coming. I was like, oh, I'm listening.

Speaker 4: 52:48

I was like oh.

Speaker 3: 52:50

Yeah, See, it's funny because I hadn't thought about it in a while. But when Orlando says for real, he kind of smiles over. He's not like what do you mean? It's just sort of like oh well, this is intriguing. It's like finding out he's from Finland, or something is intriguing. It's like finding out he's from you know, finland, or something.

Speaker 4: 53:06

Yeah, it's like you speak dutch exactly it's like, yeah, so I was like okay, cool. Yeah, it's beard. Beard speaking dutch. Yeah, don't tell. Don't tell jan mas um. So orlando says what here?

Speaker 3: 53:18

coach, you never dated a white woman before never did a white which sonico says oh no, thank you. I was like what is happening in this car right now? And then he asked is that racist? And then it's funny because I found myself going I don't know. And then, and then orlando said I think it's a great piece of dialogue. Like I'm all, I am all over the place in this seat, like I'm like I don't know, is that offensive? I don't think it's offensive. Maybe it's offensive what?

Speaker 4: 53:43

What Is that right Right Because it is taking race into into into consideration when dating. But he goes. But it's a good racist right which?

Speaker 3: 53:55

is awesome.

Speaker 4: 53:57

Is there a good I'm like right. I mean you kind of?

Speaker 3: 54:01

go, but I know what you mean. Yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah, I know what you mean by that.

Speaker 2: 54:04

And also in the idea that race is a social construct. It doesn't have any biological basis, like if there were a white woman who culturally fit in with the black community would he be attracted to her. Is it actually a skin tone thing, or is it more like? I don't like Karen's so I stay away from white women, so I kind of get that. I do understand.

Speaker 3: 54:25

That's kind of interesting. I like't like Karen's so I stay away from white women, so I kind of get that. I do understand. That's kind of interesting. I like where you're taking that though. That's an interesting like if your vibe were of a certain culture with that. Yes, Right.

Speaker 2: 54:32

That's interesting. There's all sorts of ways when this can get completely fucked and there's fetishization, jesus, of different cultures and all that other stuff, and also absolutely like weird things, where I have heard weird dudes on the internet say like oh well, asian women are so much more submissive and like that's all kinds of fucks that is so fucked in so many fucking ways that I just, yeah, that's dark, that's not cool, gross, that's dark that is not tommy cole's vibe.

Speaker 2: 55:01

Tommy cole's vibe is like no, no, no, no, no. I prefer black women to whatever Maureen McNulty is.

Speaker 4: 55:12

Yeah Well, the people that aren't dating Karens are really missing out, because they're great to date. I'll just say that. I'll just say that I'll put in one vote for the Karens and dating them, because it's a lot of fun.

Speaker 2: 55:26

Sometimes you can use your Karen-ness for good. Sometimes you can channel your white woman Into reporting Asshole accounts on Twitter For six weeks straight. When you can direct it In the right way, it's not always terrible.

Speaker 4: 55:42

I just want to point out the talk about being racist. I'll be the. I'll be the last. Uh, I'll. I'll go down the last acceptable racial.

Speaker 2: 55:52

What the white man what? Racism is acceptable. No, no, no, no no.

Speaker 4: 55:56

Remember when we said, uh, at the only uh, really racist, you can legitimate, quote, unquote, legitimately still make fun of our Irish and Italians. Yes, so Juliana is half Irish, half Italian, so I get to make fun of everybody, but we have this love for what she calls the Irish blockhead. And I look at Michael O'Malley in this scene, yes, and I'm like look at the size of this dude's melon and the cat it looks like a child, yeah.

Speaker 4: 56:25

It's like a. So for those not watching, I remember he made fun of the dude at the at the uh strip club. He's like oh, let me know when you, when you kill jason born because he had a fucking right. You know, delta force jacket on this is like a ranger operator ball cap. It's like a unmarked there's no, there's no're right, it's no insignia.

Speaker 3: 56:45

That's it, it is cap.

Speaker 4: 56:47

Right, yeah, it is a cover, or they would say in the Marines. Right, it is a. But he cannot. Typically, when you wear one of these, you get it down sort of near the ears. This dude's got like this thing may well have a propeller on the top of it. He cannot get it on his beautiful Irish cranium on this board.

Speaker 3: 57:10

That's really funny. I've never thought about that in my life and now I feel like I'm going to meet some Irish person and be like I am not laughing at you, sir, I'm sorry, no, no, no, it's really funny, but again when they're visibly Irish.

Speaker 2: 57:23

Conan O'Brien can be mocked for his Irishness.

Speaker 3: 57:27

It is fine he's so Irish and no one mocks him for it more mercilessly than Conan. O'brien I mean he's merciless and it's so goddamn funny, it's great he's got a big dome on him too.

Speaker 2: 57:44

Yeah, it's actually good I have a head, it's a thing I'm like oh, that's a, thing, yeah. I get it. I'm gonna have to go measure my brother's heads the next time I see him just check out seriously.

Speaker 4: 57:56

It's how the Irish save civilization is just having like an impenetrable skull you can't crack it, they've tried a lot my biking. Ancestors tried for, for, for uh, centuries and just nothing. Nothing works on it. Um, but it's a good racist right, uh, and he goes again. Great editing. It's a good racist right. They cut to orlando. Just him in frame, thinking about it doesn't say anything. He's like uh.

Speaker 3: 58:27

But you can see his wheels turning, like his mouth is a little bit open, like he's really like I don't know, Like I do not, I'm not sure to the yes of that question, Right.

Speaker 4: 58:37

Love it. What was her name? What was her name? I was trying to think Last name was something Irish McGinnis Whoa Orlando. Last name was something Irish McGinnis Whoa Orlando says watch out for the dog. I did a little preview of. I love this so much. So this is a personal thing I will call out and see if there's any kindred spirits out there. When I played Dungeon Crawler Carl, I did the opening chapter for a very special episode. One of the things I love most about the audiobook version of that is they do exactly this, which is Michael Malli playing Butthole. Tommy Cole is like thinking what's her name? What's her name? Just like we all do when we drive.

Speaker 4: 59:19

We have a thought or whatever and our attention may waver just a little bit and then you get someone go, orlando goes watch out for the dog, like we didn't see the dog but it's the audio cue. So in Dungeon Crawler Carl, what they always do is like uh, the main character, carl, was kind of got like uh, um, kind of a deeper voice and he's always like I decided to walk down and see if I could scounge some forage, some holy fuck like. And he just yells holy fuck in the middle and I'm like oh, it's so much fun to me, so right here, watch out for that. We don't see a dog. For those not watching the show there's no dog. All we see is orlando's face. And we get the audio cue.

Speaker 4: 1:00:02

And then we get the next shot is cuts back to Mike O'Malley, right, screaming and starting to swerve, and then three frames later we get a shot of a Ford heading for just the dumbest sweetheart in the world sitting on the double yellow line. So we're behind the dog looking at the car approach and we see, uh, uh, the car heading for it. Dumb dog barks right and we get a single. It's weird because we get the back side of the dog looking at the car approaching. Then we move to the subjective camera from the car's pov and you get us only in frame as the dog and he goes woof just like uh on you know the dumbest sweetheart in the world. And then we get a overhead shot of of the car losing control and going into the side of the road, into the high grass.

Speaker 4: 1:01:00

Um, so we don't. We we're not a hundred percent sure what's happened, but he might go Mally, uh, by the whole time he called he feels like shit, did I kill another dog and if you remember earlier in the show, this is something that's been plaguing him and he gets out of the car. He goes no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Where's the dog Right? Where's the dog? And he's looking? No, no, no. He walks back onto the little single lane road. Orlando says what here, coach you?

Speaker 3: 1:01:34

don't have to worry about me, I'm good Like hello.

Speaker 4: 1:01:39

Thanks bud. Yeah, the human is fine. Thanks for asking, right?

Speaker 3: 1:01:46

I know we've touched on it in different ways but I think it's really solidifying for me here and it's the talk at the conference. Tommy Cole is on some level just clinging to the idea that there might be some good somewhere on Earth. Yeah Right, and so the dog thing is such a a fascinating way to capture that, because dogs are the simplicity of a dog like even compared to when people do the cat comparison like dogs. I just visited a friend of ours and and who has a a two-year-old dog humongous dog, as gentle as gentle could be, and I was like it's just pure love. Like came to the door and I thought was like hey, who's the intruder? And just trotted right past me to my friend's wife, just because he was like mommy's home. I was like, yeah, so there's something about the purity of that dog just sitting there and sort of barking almost like hi, how are you car?

Speaker 4: 1:02:47

Yeah dummy Like what Woof? What is happening? You guys don't realize, but 25 years ago he couldn't have walked into that house that he just mentioned. Oh yeah, no, meanwhile I'm like hanging out with the dog.

Speaker 3: 1:03:04

Yeah, I was like kicking it with this dog now I never. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I was like kicking it with this dog, now I never, I wouldn't.

Speaker 4: 1:03:08

You could have stolen all my money.

Speaker 3: 1:03:09

It would have been unthinkable, Truly Like you talk about. We talked about heart rate going up earlier.

Speaker 4: 1:03:14

Oh yeah, Like and it could be a chihuahua. You would see him shake His body would shake yeah no-transcript satisfactory ding to get to the next level.

Speaker 4: 1:03:59

It doesn't feel that way in real life. When you're on a, when you're trying to level up. In real life it's much more vague, it's much more uncertain. You don't know when you've actually hit the level and the dog is a mechanism to show us where he is on that journey. And it's amazing. We see now Tommy Cole, pained and frustrated, and then he gets down and screams. He squats down in the middle of the road, right where the dog was just as dumb as squats down in the middle of the road, right where the dog was just as dumb as the dog in the middle of the road. Yeah, yeah, it's, it's so nuts. Um, it's funny because there was a. You don't have time for continuity with a budget like this. They probably had. Their budget was probably 11 potatoes, uh and uh. You know whatever dirt that Sean Simmons had on Mike O'Malley to get him to do this role. And there was a shot right before this where there was a car behind them in the rearview mirror. They weren't the only ones on the road.

Speaker 3: 1:04:57

Really. Yeah, that's funny.

Speaker 4: 1:05:01

I mentioned it as like there's only so much you can do. But right now he's the only one on the road, this road in the middle, I mean middle of nowhere. At least there are telephone poles, so there's like some civilization, but they're out in what they used to call EBF in my neck of the woods. I think we talked about different. What did you call out in the middle of nowhere? Ebf was East Bumfuck in my. Oh sorry.

Speaker 2: 1:05:24

Oh, it was.

Speaker 4: 1:05:24

Ebf was East Bumfuck in my I heard it said it was East, but what was yours Was yours something.

Speaker 3: 1:05:28

No, my mother used to say that a thing was oh my god, Thor lives out behind God's back. It was like a thing everybody said. But my mother used to say that was like one thing she said that always made me laugh. Never miss with that one. Oh blah, blah, blah. Oh, stop behind God's back.

Speaker 4: 1:05:50

That's great. Yes, some of my friends have a different East Bums. What are they? Something else, but it was like similar to what I did.

Speaker 2: 1:05:56

Bumfuck is definitely a thing around here. I will say that this is not for everybody in the Western suburbs of Chicago, Everybody in the Western suburbs of Chicago, but specifically my friend Mandy and I from high school we used to call it Plainfield. Whenever?

Speaker 2: 1:06:11

any place was out in the middle of fucking nowhere. We'd call it Plainfield because one time we'd gone out with a friend of ours. Her name was actually Mary Ellen, but we called her Melon because that's cute. Melon is on the phone with a friend of ours saying like yeah, so where's the party? Where are we going? What are we doing? Blah, blah, blah. And then says to us all right, well, he knows about a party, but it's in Plainfield. Like do you guys know how to get there? And Mandy and I at the same time are like Plainfield.

Speaker 2: 1:06:36

Plainfield's so fucking far away, fucking Plainfield.

Speaker 4: 1:06:51

And she was like go, we're like no, we don't fucking know where plainfield is we? Know it's fucking far away, it's fucking plainfield. We're not going to plainfield. No, no, I don't have a banjo and so therefore, yeah, I'm not going. Yeah, I know it's everybody, everybody has some version of this. Um, but tommy cole goes right in the middle of the road. Uh, uh, orlando says I guess, guess, your airbags don't work. Huh, like that's the last little button. We don't see him, we just see the wide shot of Tommy Cole.

Speaker 3: 1:07:12

But when you first saw them in the car he was touching his forehead Like you know. That thing you do where you're like. Am I bleeding Right? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I thought that was a good button on that.

Speaker 4: 1:07:24

Yeah, it was good. Now we cut to. We're back at the meth ranch down in Ocala. Calvin is in frame and we hear some random sounds of something. We're not sure we only have Calvin in frame. And we see Calvin go. What the fuck are you doing? Right, what the fuck are you doing? And now we get a reverse shot of what Calvin is looking at. And what is it here, boss?

Speaker 2: 1:07:56

That is, wayne putting up the shelves in Calvin's man cave, which I am saying with as much disdain as humanly possible.

Speaker 4: 1:08:05

Well, you look at the shitty, filthy sheetrock. I mean I just love when they get it right. You know what I mean? It's just yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:08:17

This feels like I don't know, not a sunroom. A sunroom means a very specific thing, especially in Chicago, where it's like the front room of the apartment with the windows. This is like an out room. It's not inside the house Exactly, it's like halfway in between.

Speaker 4: 1:08:36

Yeah, and it's like the spider webs have been there so long that the spider webs have stained the. The Xerox is so gross. Oh, I don't know if that's possible, but it looks like it. So yeah, it's one of those shitty racked shelving systems where you put the two sort of the riser pieces on the wall and then you clamp in a couple of supports and you put the board on top of it. Really basic stuff. And Wayne is screwing this into the wall and he turns around and looks at Calvin and Calvin says anyone ask you to do that? And Wayne says no, but she asked you to and you know you didn't.

Speaker 3: 1:09:25

I definitely cringed when he said that. Like I was like oh boy, oh dear, oh dear. Right now I don't like. It just felt like this is not like the. Any idea that this was going to end without the final confrontation between these characters sort of went away from me at that moment, like I was like this is a collision course and the collision really is going to have to happen one way or another.

Speaker 4: 1:09:49

I was a little surprised that Calvin didn't step into the room. So I was like, oh, this is interesting, this is an interesting character beat where he's like, he walks away, and then we cut to an extreme close-up of a toe being painted and we rightly guess off the cuff, the, uh, off the cuff that it's maureen. And so we really realize, okay quickly, that calvin is heading to talk this out somehow and I'm like, oh, okay, let's actually moderately civilized. Like you know, with calvin you'd expect him to like just pull out a serrated knife and stick it into the kid. You know, you're just like I don't have any faith that this guy is, uh, living in the modern era.

Speaker 4: 1:10:30

Um, but uh, we get this shot of maureen's foot and calvin walks in and, um, yeah, like where he comes? He comes in the, in the door to the house, the trailer area. So you're like, okay, yeah, the outbuilding is the trailer area. So you're like, okay, yeah, the outbuilding is the or out room, whatever. You're like, okay, it's not really in the house. And he says you see what that fucking kid did. And Maureen thinks he's talking about what fucking kid here, boss?

Speaker 2: 1:10:58

Talking about how Reggie's alligator shit on the neighbor's lawn again.

Speaker 4: 1:11:01

Yeah, right, the assumption is we're talking about a kid with calvin. We're referring to reggie. Uh, the alligator shit on the on the neighbor's lawn again. And, um, no, the other fucking kid. It's like oh, there's another right yeah, there's another kid.

Speaker 2: 1:11:20

So one of the things I need to just double check. I don't even know. There are stairs behind morning shoulder. Does this mean this is still a trailer or are we going to have to re-envision what their house is like because we're seeing more parts of it now? Is there? Is there a two-story? Is this underground?

Speaker 4: 1:11:38

I thought it was like a double wide with a.

Speaker 3: 1:11:41

Oh really, I didn't I thought they were in a structure in the and the other side was trailer, but maybe, maybe, this. Yeah, I may have just not processed it correctly.

Speaker 4: 1:11:51

That's a good question. Now, boss, I want to direct your attention to the key holder behind Maureen's head, where there's a little Palm Sunday, a little cross sort of tucked in there, because this is a God-fearing house.

Speaker 2: 1:12:05

They're good Christians. Good Christians doesn't mean anything, but they are that right not in this day and age anyway.

Speaker 4: 1:12:17

So she says, no, what? And he goes. He hung up some shelves for your fucking candle crap in my fucking TV room. Oh yeah, that's kind of sweet, huh, in my fucking tv room, maureen, oh, you want me to ask him to hang your tv? She laughs. And then what does he do?

Speaker 2: 1:12:38

oh, that he's being unsafe pushes all the shit off the table. It looks like sort of, uh, not pushing at her foot but not avoiding her foot pushing all of the the bottles and everything else that's a great call out.

Speaker 3: 1:12:52

Yeah, she definitely has to move to make sure she isn't harmed by this move, but he didn't go to hit her.

Speaker 4: 1:13:00

You're right.

Speaker 2: 1:13:00

I mean, in the same way that he wasn't going to step into the room to confront Wayne right now, he isn't going to physically attack maureen directly. Uh, this was actually just a thing on threads the other night, that last night maybe that I was reading the ways in which abusive men will exhibit anger or violence towards things as a warning to the people around them.

Speaker 4: 1:13:29

Well, how are we supposed to warn you?

Speaker 2: 1:13:31

Yeah exactly. I mean I won't care.

Speaker 4: 1:13:34

Well, who will think of the violent men Right and I don't want to get into the specifics, because some of them are just like oh, that sucks.

Speaker 2: 1:13:41

But people in general will say, well, he threw something against the wall, but that's not violent. Oh no, that's violent. When Johnny Depp trashed a hotel room 30 years ago, he was being violent and abusive. It wasn't until many, many years later that we understood the full picture of that, but that's what he was already doing. That was already the MO.

Speaker 4: 1:14:02

Yeah, whenever something gets bumped, we always go to the big lebowski. So, like my, my natural reaction when he did that she was like jesus, fucking christ. Like you know what I mean, I was just joking, you know. It was like uh, but my, my, my natural reaction is always like whoa, there's a beverage here. Man, yes, like why would you hit the thing?

Speaker 3: 1:14:21

like so sorry, go ahead, coach no, no, no, I, because I I feel like I'm gonna be the bummer now, but it was really and my sister helped me to see it because I, I can't, could have. I've done a lot of work on it in the last few years but I could truly explosive like rage, like just freaking rage, and it took me a long time to fully get and respect that. Just being in the presence of that kind of rage even if it's not directed at you, like what you're describing, boss, I get which is like if I'm looking at you and I take a glass and throw it at you, I get how that's a threat. I get. It is like if I'm looking at you and I take a glass and throw it at you, I get how that's a threat, I get it. I do actually get that. But I didn't get that. Me just being in a room and being that fucking pissed off about whatever was in itself scary. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 1:15:22

And a thing I needed to moderate because of that. You know what I mean. I a thing I needed to moderate because of that, like you know what I mean, like I was like I wasn't even fucking talking to you was kind of my reaction and it took me years to get that like, yeah, but it's just scary to be around. So anyway, a hundred percent.

Speaker 4: 1:15:39

I love that you brought that up.

Speaker 3: 1:15:41

And so I say that because I think, yeah, did he just hit her? No, but do we understand the power dynamic in this house and how it's enforced by this moment? Absolutely, he didn't knock his shit over.

Speaker 4: 1:15:59

Right, no, no for sure I'm in the same mission here, because I have that explosive temper and it never. It's never directed at people, it's always directed at like you know a thing or something like that. I remember I had a friend who uses the same deodorant as me, which is like a soft, solid deodorant which works really well, but you cannot get it on your clothes, it just does not come off. And so this is my friend getting ready for um, like a very important thing. He was invited to, like it might have been an award ceremony or something, and he got a tiny bit of the deodorant on his shirt which meant he couldn't wear the outfit he was wearing and they were late, and he took the deodorant and and slammed it on the floor and broke the deodorant, you know, and it went flying and splattered deodorant and his girlfriend at the time was like I don't like to be around, I don't like that. He has that gear and I have the same gear.

Speaker 4: 1:16:57

A lot of most, I think not say most men, but a lot of men do and so I've had to be mindful in my own home about, like getting frustrated with batteries or something like you know something stupid, right, and it's to the point where. So the other night I said, when I was rooting for the Bruins and I knew it was going to end, it was overtime, so someone's going to score. So I have a 10 year old daughter and she is just like she does not like the, the, the, the instant explosion of unwarranted or uninvited emotion. And so I, I before uh, you know, I did anything. I pulled her side. I was like, hey, I was like, come over here a sec. I'm watching this thing. I'm gonna yell one of two. I will yell. I don't mean to scare you. I'm gonna yell yes or no, and this is what's coming. Where do you want to be while that happens? Because I, I'm just I'm owning the fact that it's.

Speaker 4: 1:17:50

You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna say something and I want you to know, it's not about you, it's not about anybody, it's just excitement, um. And she's like, okay, I'm gonna go sit on the stairs because I won't, I won't hear it, great, okay, good, um, but I've had to become mindful of that exactly. It's not something you know, you don't, it doesn't occur to you, especially if you're in in that thing where you're like smash something, right, you're like, what do I do? I'm not hurting anybody, I'm just like expending energy I'm letting it out.

Speaker 4: 1:18:16

It's like yeah yeah, no it's yeah, that's easy for you to say. You're not one of the people who has to be now on guard, right? You know it has to modulate your mood, or see, or start to uh study your body language to see if, if a fucking blow up is imminent, you know. So, yes, it's very, I'm so happy you brought that up, coach.

Speaker 2: 1:18:35

Thank you, yeah I, I love that you did that. I know that. Um, especially when I I swear loudly, I will just the exc. It's usually fuck, it's my favorite Fuck Whenever something happens when I cook, especially at the boyfriend's house.

Speaker 2: 1:18:53

He, luckily, at this point has gotten to the point where I will shout ah fuck. And he goes are you okay? And I said, yeah, I did put too much salt in, it's fine, it's nothing. But there was a period where he used to say what happened, what's wrong? And I'm like you've known me for so long, how do you not know that you don't need to be that alarmed yet? But I needed to take it down and he needs to come up a little bit where he felt okay with it. He is an adult, he is my partner. I expected that from him. There's a difference with parents and children. It did remind me a little bit on the Simpsons Marge drags Homer out to the car so that they could have a fight, because she says I always hated it when I was a kid and I could hear my parents fighting. I remember that.

Speaker 2: 1:19:34

And then the kids at the window are looking and Bart says, oh, they're fighting in the car again, and Lisa said that music sends a chill down my spine. So I feel like there are a lot of ways that this can like it needs to be addressed always, but also there are a lot of ways that it can sort of move the fact that you're like, hey, I'm gonna scream and she's like cool, I'm gonna bounce to the other room for a second.

Speaker 3: 1:19:55

I feel like that is weirdly an ideal situation yeah, I was actually sitting here going, you know, like, all right back to what we were talking about earlier, about like, oh, we've got this testosterone and so do we, you know, get more people playing hockey, or you know, do we whatever? Or you know, maybe you know, boss takes the swim teams and we see who ends up floating, yeah, but but I love the idea.

Speaker 4: 1:20:21

Grease them all up and have a slap fight. No one will no one take any damage just just everyone missing like crazy.

Speaker 3: 1:20:27

But I love the idea, though, of your awareness, but also built into that is you get you. You don't have to abandon your love of hockey and you don't have to abandon that level of excitement that goes through you. You know what I mean. Like, one of the things I like most about having this office is I watch sports in here and I am a lunatic, and it's okay because no one can hear me, and when I, when some dunk happens and I'm like, oh, like it's fine, like no one, no other human being, is impacted by it.

Speaker 3: 1:21:04

but you're sort of embracing you in that situation, because I think a lot of things we're saying is no, men need to stop these things and we do, but I think there are ways that maybe we could understand them and manage them more effectively, and I feel like your story tells that story.

Speaker 4: 1:21:21

Yes, but hold on a second. I have casually omitted how I got to that, which is by being a fucking idiot 10 or 12 times before that and looking in my daughter's eyes and seeing that I scared her or that she's shaking because I, you know whatever, because I bumped my knee on a ladder or because I dropped something. You know what I'm saying. And then you go, wait, I don't want her to feel it. Something you know what I'm saying like. And then you go, wait, I don't want her to feel. This is why, this is why you get men, at a certain age, going as a father of daughters. It's like, oh, now you understand women.

Speaker 3: 1:21:54

But yes, in some, some cases, it really is the thing that is the pivot point, and it's not good and I'm not, I'm it.

Speaker 4: 1:22:03

But when people do that, I don't automatically lash out because I go okay, well, at least you have this opportunity for perspective taking, and it's like I don't want my little girl to feel she shouldn't be scared ever when I'm watching sports, like that's not, why would I ever? But it only is from having cheered at a touchdown one too many times and look over and she's backing away and you go oh my God. So it's not that I'm whatever. I've arrived at a solution that seems to work, but it's because of screwing up many, many times. Now Calvin says don't you fuck with me. And she says I was just playing with you, calvin Christ, that seems to work in there. Like I was like oh, is he gonna now get aggressive with her? But he didn't. He was like oh, okay, it somehow mollified him in some way, um. And he says uh, what does he say here, boss? Um, once she says I was just fucking with you, what does he say?

Speaker 3: 1:23:06

he needs to go yeah, and that's all right. We knew at some point somebody was gonna have to address right, how's this gonna play out like? So I mean, I don't, you know, I'm not a fan of calvin, but part of me does feel like I mean, probably he really does need to go. I mean, this is just not. This is not a sustainable.

Speaker 4: 1:23:26

Well, why? Because Calvin says it no.

Speaker 3: 1:23:29

No, I'm just saying like okay, there's no way Wayne, Reggie and Calvin are going to coexist in a space indefinitely without something horrible, slash violent, happening. That's all. That's all I mean by it. Not that, oh, he's the king of the castle, I just mean like the present arrangement of these four human beings sharing a roof. You just can't have this like.

Speaker 4: 1:23:57

It's just not gonna end well so once, once it's a declarative statement, like he needs to go, I was like, oh fuck, because now it's like shit. Now we have to see what maureen's first of all. Does she have enough control of calvin to have him walk that back like, does she have enough? How much? How much control of this relationship does she have how much? How much? Say, um, you know, and so she's like, come on, cal. Like come on, he just got here, you know. And he's like then what Are you, are you going to? You know he sits down. I like this, he sits down. He doesn't. As bad as their relationship is, it is awful, he's not. He's not in her face, he's not with a finger in her, in her eye, you know, like it's like he sits down.

Speaker 3: 1:24:52

It's oddly a conversation, like the tenor of it, but actually you're right, there is a. There is a level of I hate to say it because I'm I don't mean, he's not that he is clearly disrespectful, like he just slapped his shit off the table. So I don't want to go crazy, but I am picking up what you're putting down, that he is asking a question here and he's going to hear what she says, like he's not just like ranting, like there's an odd brand of respect. Maybe we could.

Speaker 4: 1:25:05

I don't know there's another word that's not respect, but he's gonna voice the question. Yeah right, no, like which I'm like wrong, am I no boss?

Speaker 2: 1:25:13

no no, let's. Let's hear it straight me out, boss. This is a different form of coercion through belittling rather than intimidation. Because what he says is what are you going to do, maureen? You're going to take care of the kid. Oh, you're capable of taking care of a child. And she says I was young, then Things could be different now.

Speaker 3: 1:25:34

And he says Ooh you're right, that's exactly what he means by that.

Speaker 2: 1:25:38

He says you're going to be a good little fucking mommy now.

Speaker 4: 1:25:47

And what he is saying to her is you can't mother him, you are not equipped to do it, and he doesn't mean that in a way where he is meeting her at her level where he's saying like no, yeah oh, no, no, no, no, but I was like I guess I, I guess, yes, that I was like in him sitting he has removed the threat of imminent physical violence and at least like, okay, if he's going to belittle her, yes, like whatever. But I thought, oh, I hadn't even given him that much credit. I okay if he's going to belittle her, yes, like whatever. But I thought, oh, I hadn't even given him that much credit. I was like, oh no, he's such a barbarian, he's such an oaf, he's such a troglodyte that like he only knows force. But now, but he also has this other gear of manipulation. And coercion.

Speaker 4: 1:26:20

He's going to be a good little Tommy right now is so destructive and cruel. Yeah, move him into my fucking TV room. Yeah, it's not that you've highlighted it too.

Speaker 3: 1:26:30

There's a there's, and few things are as damaging as shame and to have been the, the, the conspirator in the crime that he is now fucking hurling at her. Yeah, thanks for opening me up a little there. I was thinking of right where we were. But you're right, that is what this is.

Speaker 2: 1:26:59

This is any guy who has ever made out with somebody else's girlfriend and then, if they start dating, he will every time say, oh, are you going to cheat on me like you cheated on him? That's what this is yeah, good, call um.

Speaker 4: 1:27:16

So now the ultimatum is there and she, and he has shamed her, he has belittled her, he has um mocked her. And she said uh, regardless of how inconvenient this might be for you, he's still my fucking kid, which is I was like, wow, hmm, I did not know that Maureen had that sort of like she. She dug her heels in a little bit and she pushed back and I was like like, okay, all right, well, how's this gonna go? Uh, calvin says I pay the bills. Okay, your part-time candlewick fucking bullshit ain't enough to support you or him. Uh, so you got two fucking choices get him the fuck out of here or you get the fuck out of here with it In the spirit of what was just highlighted.

Speaker 3: 1:28:10

As we talk about some things that are happening, particularly in the United States of America these days, and people have been referencing, like you know, in the not too distant past, women couldn't even have bank accounts or credit cards in this fucking country. This is definitely like a third level of coercion. So now, I hadn't seen the scene this way. But if, in terms of um, all right, or quickly, when you direct, a lot of times what you'll talk to actors about is is intention, right, so like, what are you trying to do in this scene? Right, and then things get in the. So he comes in and first it's I'm going to break all this shit, and then that isn't quite getting what I want. Hmm, ok, what will I try? Ok.

Speaker 3: 1:28:57

I'm going to sit down now and act calm, but I'm going to shame you. Hmm, that's not quite working either. All right, I'm going to try another thing. Hmm, that's not quite working either. All right, I'm gonna try another thing. I'm going to threaten your ability to survive if you choose this kid over me right now. I am how you eat, I am how there's a roof over your head, I am how you survive. So it's actually the entire scene. Is him coercing her to get rid of her own child again?

Speaker 2: 1:29:29

yep, by the way and also I love that you broke it down in terms of he wasn't getting the reaction that he wanted. She, he was physically violent. She said, jesus, I was joking, she didn't seem. I mean, she seemed unsettled, but she wasn't cowering right, she was like oh oh my god, I'll just tell him to go. And when he says you can't take care of her, she says well, no, actually I can. And so then he uses this tactic instead to see what he could get.

Speaker 4: 1:29:55

He threatens her life, her existence, her safety. So it's him or you, so decide which one you want, which is really great. And we get a shot of her hearing that and considering it. And we cut back to Tommy Cole. Now he is sitting on the road on the dividing line. There's a double yellow. Oh, this one's a single yellow. Actually, it's one of those ones where one of the yellows is painted out and he says I'm goddamn cursed Before you move on from there.

Speaker 3: 1:30:36

The cut, I think, is worth looking at just visually. What's done? Maureen sort of rolls her eyes, has smiles like now this is a problem, and a little bit of the bubble over her head is like to me. Men, right, but Tommy Cole is extremely small in the next frame. We were all the way up in Maureen's face and he's all the way deep in that space and he's in what would have been the negative space in her frame. So it's interesting. I don't know what we're doing, connecting them exactly, but there's definitely something visually going on about the experiences they're having.

Speaker 3: 1:31:16

And I'm imagining in some ways Tommy Cole. I'm just as I'm walking through this, Tommy Cole is expressing her thought bubble I'm goddamn. I gave up my kid because I was married to the kind of guy who just goes to pick up hockey games and ends up coming home with teeth missing. And then my kid finds me and now I have to choose between giving up my kid again or becoming homeless in the next hour. So I'm goddamn cursed between giving up my kid again or becoming homeless in the next hour, Right? So I'm goddamn cursed. You know, it's kind of the end of that scene as well as the beginning of the next scene as I walk through it.

Speaker 4: 1:31:55

Well said, well said. Uh, tommy Cole says I'm on a mission to save Wayne. Uh, somebody should be saving him from me. Uh, remember that scene from terminated too, when all the innocent kids are on the playground and then this nuclear bomb detonates into a wave of hellfire and just scorches everyone and everything into ash and skeletons. He says that you know, I'm the nuclear bomb in terminator 2 what meanwhile orlando was like looking through yeah for sure, right.

Speaker 4: 1:32:28

Orlando's like looking through the, the glove compartment, looking orlando's like actually looking to figure out this situation. And he is law. Tommy cole is lost in a shame cycle. Um, just considering their situation and his role in it, it does a good job. Michael Balli is always good. He says I got nothing left. He's like close to a panic attack. You know the way he's doing, like really heavy breathing, he's got his brows furrowed. He's really sort of overly stressed in this scene and I got nothing left. And orlando in the background. It's just a great shot. Like uh, cinematographer's looking for depth over uh, tommy cole's shoulder. We see orlando stand up in the like on the seat of his car in the passenger side and he goes hey, you got triple a and oh, there's a glimmer of hope. Triple a right and I loved this so much, just as a as a reveal, as a character insight.

Speaker 3: 1:33:32

Tommy cole says no, they expired a long time ago it doesn't feel like we're talking about triple a, does it? I mean? I really I mean some really good writing going on here yeah, it's amazing, it's amazing also really great characterization because orlando knows how to handle a crisis.

Speaker 2: 1:33:53

Because yes tommy cole is. I'm not saying he's wrong too, but he's sitting in the middle of the road catastrophizing because not everything is going to. We can figure this shit out, tommy, but you need to get out of the middle of the road, and that's exactly what orlando's doing, because he knows how to take care of his grandma because he's had to do that with his grandma right, so he is going to problem solve even while tommy is spiraling out in the middle of the road absolutely.

Speaker 3: 1:34:20

I also think that the the tommy cole side of this conversation. I'm sure most people do, but there are these moments in life where you feel like you've got you know whether you call it. Oh uh, actually that came up between may and um keely, right like what? What's the opposite of midas touch? I remember hearing it called the bird is my touch or whatever, like people say different ways.

Speaker 3: 1:34:43

But when you feel like that, like there's no point in looking for the triple a card, like you're convinced that, like if I even had triple a, the phones would be down today or someone would have blown up the office, like I am just doomed, the universe hates me, and when you feel like it's very you know so you feel like it looks for him to be sitting in the middle of this road.

Speaker 4: 1:35:10

Absolutely right. Well said, coach. It's always darkest before the dawn, and he is. He is absolutely miserable. And then low hark, but light from yonder window breaks. What do we hear but a dog bark and love their.

Speaker 3: 1:35:27

They're all. Here's the thing. The whole time here, because I'm not always ahead of this show, because it's very well written, but I went like where's the dog? I said it out loud, I was like yeah, where's the? Dog he's like I must have killed it. I'm like, but if you did, where's the dog?

Speaker 4: 1:35:46

so I was glad I wouldn't know the dog barked dog barks, tommy cole's head turns and, uh, I I'm instructed by by um, several of my, uh, close friends never to compare, compare a black man to a, um to an animal. But I will say that the character of, or did have a mere cat quality to him, of popping up, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:36:07

It was like it was so good, it was so effective. Because he pops up into frame and he's like looking left and right, like, and Tommy's like was that you? Yeah, yeah, I was barking. He's like no man. He's like that wasn't you. And he's like no man, he's like that wasn't you. And so now Tommy's up looking around, they're trying to hear, and he goes, hey, doggy, doggy, doggy, doggy. And tries to find the dog.

Speaker 4: 1:36:32

And then we cut Hope, hope, right, so hope that kills you, coach, oh my goodness. So now we cut to Del, um, dell waking up at the at the community pool, and we remember that she, uh, that the nice security guard had at least given her some kickboards and towels and things to sleep behind a shelving unit. Um, and now we see Dell, uh, we see her high tops in frame as she gets up and there's a little mommy and me sort of swim class where a lot of, a lot of newborns in the water, literally no, it's like 18 months and younger kind of size of the babies, and they're in the water with the moms and Dell walks out to this and sort of sits and watches as the kids are uh, sort of kicking around and dell sits on some some like plastic chair, like a stand of plastic chairs. Um, and right away she, she's not there for more than a second before the lifeguard points this, uh, pulls the security guard in, the same security guard from the night before, and points to Dell. And Dell is just sort of wistfully watching the moms and the children because I mean, it couldn't be more on the nose Right. But she, she does not have this type of security and and maybe hasn't ever had this type of security. It's funny, yeah, it's, it's. It's just it's hard.

Speaker 4: 1:38:08

When you know people who don't have good moms or have moms that whatever, um, they um, you can break your heart when they say like, uh, there's a thing one of my close friends does where she's like she was talking about oh, I want her to be my mom, because I know she's got a like a brutal mom and you know, and um, she'll say like, she'll see, like a singer she likes, or she'll see, she'll see someone on the subway and she's like, oh god, I wish that was my mom. It's like a, it's like a through line for her whole life, like the search for that type of love you know um. So the security guard comes up to her and she says it's time for you to go. And Dell, this is, this is interesting because up till this point I think I've always agreed with most.

Speaker 4: 1:38:52

I mean not necessarily, uh, penciling all the blood bags, but, um, I've understood where Adele is coming from. Uh, so she kind of gets right up to Adele and says you have to go, it's time for you to go, and Adele. Instead of reacting to that, adele just leans back in the chair and looks at her.

Speaker 3: 1:39:19

She, it's like the look up is almost like gonna make me huh, like it feels like we've all seen versions of a scene. Okay, the equivalent to this for of this for me is like the guy and I wish I could think of a good example in a movie but the guy who's hit whatever rock bottom moment and heads to a bar and intentionally like bumps the shit out of the guy next to him and you're like, oh, this happened in six feet under, for sure. And I just you know, like you just get the sense. Like, oh, this is like basically suicide by proxy. Like you're, you're, oh, I see. And it felt like that's because I'm like you. This lady's got to get you to fuck out of there. Certainly you don't think you can whoop her ass. She is significantly fucking bigger than you. So what are we doing right now? And it just felt like she was like this is my mood and I don't give a fuck about anything, and so all right.

Speaker 4: 1:40:18

So here's how yes for sure, coach. Here's how I read it. First of all I thought if this isn't Bobby Lucetti's daughter, I don't know who it is. Oh for sure. Right, like, right away, as soon as the security guard took that posture, it made the like demand, like now it's time for you to go. I was like, okay, first of all, I think this is ODD oppositional defiant disorder disorder. So she has established what she wants to be done, which gives Dell the avenue to immediately know exactly what not to do.

Speaker 4: 1:40:50

Oppositional defiant disorder is a type of behavior disorder mostly diagnosed in childhood. Children with ODD show a pattern of uncooperative, defiant and hostile behavior toward peers, parents, teachers and other authority figures. They're more troubling to others than they are to themselves, which I chuckled when I read that. Um, so sorry for everyone who's had to deal with me over the years. I'm sure I got a, got a little smattering of the odd um I know my mom has it, I've mentioned this before and say like, oh yeah, you know she'll, she'll do something a bit great. Just please don't cut that string there. And as soon as you turn it back, the first thing that's going to get done. And you're like how it's psychotic.

Speaker 4: 1:41:29

You can set your watch to it. So you should make sure never to tell her that what's the thing to trigger you, what's the one thing she can do, and just don't ever mention that to her. And I've taught my kids that like don't ever say the one thing because she'll do it. Um, so dell sits back and then we get the episode title. She says to the security guard what boss thought we was friends. Yeah, I thought we was. Thought we was friends. And security guard says you're skeeving out the moms.

Speaker 3: 1:41:57

The only thing worse than an angry white woman is an angry white woman with a baby I I like this part too, because she's like look, as far as I'm concerned, you can live in this motherfucker. You can't fuck up my situation. You are officially fucking up my situation now, so sorry.

Speaker 4: 1:42:14

She's got her good chinos on.

Speaker 2: 1:42:15

She says I ain't losing my job over this.

Speaker 2: 1:42:18

I will say not that I find it unbelievable, but I didn't immediately think, oh, of course the white woman in the pool would hate Del. I sort of imagined if there were moms in the pool and they saw a 16 year old girl staring wistfully at them playing with their babies. I I didn't get the immediate. There might be one Karen in that pool that complained. I can't imagine that every single one of them was like oh no, that teenager, that teenager is going to steal our babies Like I would be more inclined to think she's here trying to get babysitting jobs than anything else.

Speaker 3: 1:42:51

Not that she's a. Well, it's interesting though, because I thought the complaint I thought had a frame it timeline wise, I thought complaint complaint dell awakes security guard comes in like I didn't think, right, you know what I'm saying, so I think there's a girl asleep over there.

Speaker 4: 1:43:12

It's freaking me which is yeah, so I but.

Speaker 3: 1:43:15

But. But I hear you though that, yeah, yeah, that's the most threatening person to handle that runaway?

Speaker 4: 1:43:21

um, the security guard says come on, now, be cool. Dell just like slowly gets up. I don't want to escort you from the premises, she says. And then she reaches toward dell and again bobby luchetti to a t.

Speaker 3: 1:43:34

Dell throws her hand off and goes don't fucking touch me which, when you're filled with this kind of, this kind of I'll call it energy, I mean there is a rage, for in this moment, I think there's a lot of emotions going on inside of Dell, for good reason. Frankly, that don't touch me. Don't fucking touch me.

Speaker 4: 1:44:00

Don't fucking touch me.

Speaker 3: 1:44:00

In front of all the moms, Right, but it's like she knows in her heart right now, like whatever truth serum we could provide at the moment, she knows this woman is not against her. She knows this woman isn't reaching out because she's going to try to like, put her in some chicken wing and toss her off. Right, Like she knows that. But where do I put all of this Is what I get from this scene In part. The defiance and the behavior is like I am to the fucking brim with all this fucked up emotion and you're standing here and that's it. That's all you did to get it. Because it's clear, this woman is like please don't make me do anything. You or I don't want, but she's going to force it Because she needs to get some of this out.

Speaker 4: 1:44:58

And sometimes, when you're in this sort of fugue state, negative attention is better than no attention. So she's oh, you need to go now. Like she's like, all right, fine, you're gonna pull that shit, you gotta go. So dell walks past her and sort of heads like like she's gonna go out, and then walks with all her sneakers on everything right into the pool, right towards the moms. They all back away.

Speaker 3: 1:45:28

Del turns by the way, I know they referred to as karen's earlier, or potential karen's. In fairness, in fairness, oh yeah if somebody did this shit, I would be grabbing my kid oh 100 away what? Yes I would in what? Yes, in fairness.

Speaker 2: 1:45:45

I would say like, personally, I would not feel concerned when I saw the teenage girl Once she got into the. Not even that she is a danger, but there's some shit happening. People don't get into pools fully closed when everything is normal, like at this point. Yes, yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:46:00

So, boss, what does she do? She walks up close, she walks up, she does the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen in my entire goddamn life.

Speaker 2: 1:46:06

I left so fucking hard. She walks into the pool fully clothed, she turns around and then she squats like so that her shoulders are fully under the water all the way down and the security guard goes did you just piss in my motherfucking pool?

Speaker 4: 1:46:21

Yes, yes, she did. She makes eye contact with her, while she doesn't it is such a fucking power move.

Speaker 2: 1:46:27

It was so goddamn funny. I think I've mentioned on here before about um helping my uh, one of the younger now she's 10, my sister's younger daughter when she was potty trained she still needed some help. She was three or whatever, and I'm I'm an aunt. I've been around babies. I don't mind poop, but when I was in there with her one time it wasn't just that she was making eye contact, that she was making eye contact and narrating, and I was like audrey, sweetheart, love of my life, I need you to not do that. It's so weird. Please don't do that to me. Oh, my god, ah, jesus, she's the fucking best I love her.

Speaker 3: 1:47:09

But no, and, by the way, I think you thought of that moment for, yes, the obvious, but also beyond that, this is toddler-esque. Yes, yeah, there's so little a toddler controls that that becomes a way to like say fuck you people. Yeah, like I am gonna put shit in my hand and put it on the wall like I'm just like it's all I control and this is the end of like dell's road.

Speaker 4: 1:47:39

Yeah, yeah, also again in the in the uh, in the interest of saying like, like, oh. What are the triggers? This is Del being like I know you've got your good chinos on and I am going to make you, I'm going to make you ruin them. So how can I do that? And she squats in the pool, she pees staring at her and the security guard says what here, coach?

Speaker 3: 1:48:02

I'll fuck you for this. Oh, man Did she say I'll, or is it? I'll, I'll, I'll fuck you for this. I'll fuck you for this.

Speaker 4: 1:48:11

Her job is on the line. I mean this is bad.

Speaker 3: 1:48:15

What's she going to do? Leave her in there. There's clearly an unwell person on the premise that you've got to do it, and she knows that Del did this to make her ruin. It's like what you said about your mom, right, like, oh, I fucked up and told you about machinos.

Speaker 4: 1:48:33

Yes, that's it you know, I know now, I know exactly what the trigger is now I'm gonna make like usually I feel like my off ramps are you.

Speaker 3: 1:48:43

They may take us off course, but they're at least in the vicinity I'm doing. This is a hard turn here. This is like Bruckheimer car chase kind of turn. But this past weekend there was an epic and I'm not kidding when I say this historic in the in the context of rap music and hip-hop music battle between no wait, hold on one sec, hold on, hold on.

Speaker 4: 1:49:12

Actually, coach, I want to stop you quickly, okay, because I was kind of hoping you would host a very special episode.

Speaker 3: 1:49:19

Seriously, yeah, seriously, because I will, because I it like I serious, yeah, when I use the word historic, like I'm not being like ha ha ha. Like I'm like I am turning 52 this year, rap is turning 51 this year, so like I need people to understand. Like this is my music, this is like my life on in sound and I have been around for all the major rap beefs and it's a thing and I remember them all and I remember taking sides of them and it this was amazing like a friend of mine said to me on saturday morning because I hadn't heard everything yet, but I knew something was happening and I was like I gotta go listen.

Speaker 3: 1:50:03

And he said to me unironically and I now agree with him, that was the greatest night in the history of hip-hop. And I was like, wow, it wasn't meant to be. Like, oh, it was the greatest night ever. He was like, no, no, seriously, that was amazing, what the fuck just happened. So I would be happy to do that episode.

Speaker 4: 1:50:26

Yeah, no, that deserves its own episode and I would like to know more. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Because we're the same age, but my hip hop is called Barry Manilow. That's really funny, and so I was raised. It was different music.

Speaker 2: 1:50:42

I mean you couldn't even go for like Nelly Coolio.

Speaker 4: 1:50:47

I can't even.

Speaker 3: 1:50:50

I love boss trying to negotiate it. She's like alright, I get it. What about like?

Speaker 4: 1:50:54

Nancy, regulators mount up. No, nothing, I mean. Nope, it's all Neil Diamond, sorry, okay so.

Speaker 2: 1:51:04

Just real quick. What about how, when Elizabeth Warren was running for president, her fans refer to themselves as Warren's regulators.

Speaker 3: 1:51:15

Yeah. Yes, I didn't remember that, but that's funny Because you want so much more regulation.

Speaker 2: 1:51:20

And yes, yes, we do.

Speaker 3: 1:51:22

I think they might have even said no, it works.

Speaker 4: 1:51:29

Warren E's regulators. It was a little bit off, but I loved it. It's, it's funny, I like it.

Speaker 3: 1:51:32

She's, she's, I love her so much, but she's been president. Do you know how different the entire world would be right?

Speaker 4: 1:51:35

now, god, my god, we're so stupid as a people anyway. Okay, uh, so we cut to wayne. Um, coach, we got to do that for, for real, we're going to do that. Um, uh. So, uh, wayne, uh, wayne is now um loading up the candles onto the shelves that he's installed and um, like a good boy, he's trying to kind of do something nice, uh, and in comes, uh, maureen and boss. I want you to walk us through this, please.

Speaker 2: 1:52:07

I guess. So that's going to be so much rage. So she comes in. She says Reggie locked himself in the bathroom again.

Speaker 4: 1:52:17

She said I heard all this pounding, oh yeah yeah, yeah, reggie locked himself in the bathroom again.

Speaker 2: 1:52:21

Not what happened, but that's fine. She says glad to see somebody's actually doing some work in here. What I'm so impressed. And he says I'm just trying to do my part. Says come on, this looks really good. And he is beaming at her, super excited, very happy that he, that she is pleased with it. Wow, wow, wow, she says. And then she walks over to the shelves to look at the candles. Yeah, and then it starts becoming obvious that there's something else that needs to be talked about. She says so tomorrow's the third day of the month and that's when I take everything down to the big swap meet in Tampa and I got to get ready for that. And he says I could help you with it, super eager. And she says oh, no, no, no, it's okay, you've done enough. He starts like grabbing some of the candles you've done so much around here and as he's helping her, says uh, I just gotta separate. I just gotta separate the erotic from the non-erotic for the candles and he says what does nipple smell like? She says it smells like peach.

Speaker 4: 1:53:25

Throw back to the they're just different, they're all the same they're all just peach they're all just peach, every one, every single one, except the tree one, the woodsy one.

Speaker 2: 1:53:34

She says, yeah, I just um, I gotta find my ribbons, you know, I gotta, I gotta start, uh, loading up the car, so you know. And he says are you mad? Yeah, he realizes that that moment, yeah, like things are going a different way well, when people say things like oh, like, I'm sorry, I just I'm so busy I have to find my ribbons, like that's no, you don't.

Speaker 4: 1:53:57

Well that's valid no that is valid. I think there's there I think I told you when, when my dad used to say he has to tie up the milk. Do you remember that it was? I don't know. I've told you when my dad used to say he has to tie up the milk. Do you?

Speaker 1: 1:54:05

remember that I don't know. He has to tie up the milk.

Speaker 4: 1:54:07

I've told you this definitely on the podcast before.

Speaker 3: 1:54:09

Really it's a big thing in our family.

Speaker 4: 1:54:10

He'd say, oh yeah, I got to go. I would say like he'd say, oh, come on, help me work on the car. And I'd be like, no, I got to. And and I'd be like what? And he'd say, when you don't want to do something, one excuse is as good as another.

Speaker 2: 1:54:23

Yeah, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 4: 1:54:24

Oh. I got to wash. It's like ribbons.

Speaker 2: 1:54:26

I can't go out with you. I have to wash my hair, that's.

Speaker 4: 1:54:29

Right, Mm-hmm Right. So he says are you mad?

Speaker 2: 1:54:32

She says what no she's not mad that I unpack? No, no, no, I'm not mad, it's just I gotta, you know, I just gotta get moving, is all she. She doesn't want to address it exactly uh, he says what are you coming? Back, yeah, and she says, after sort of avoiding him, yeah, um, so that's the thing when I go, you gotta go too. And she's still packing up the candles. And then she says did you? Did you think you were like gonna stay here?

Speaker 4: 1:55:14

stay here you thought yeah, you thought you was gonna stay here, stay here yep, thank you for making it, coach.

Speaker 3: 1:55:23

That's the exact. That is the entire sound for me and this scene, like the whole time I was like, this is about as painful like this, is on a short list of the most painful scenes I've ever watched, even to the point of he keeps crossing to her and she keeps moving away it's just like, oh, this is so painful, this is so hard, and I did feel for her here.

Speaker 3: 1:55:48

Ultimately, I think there's a bit of judgment. I do give her love in this scene, but I did feel like you're protecting, you're still protecting Calvin, or if it's not protecting him you're, she's choosing him. And I think in a way, like, look, I can't leave you here. Calvin is you know, and the bottom line is it's you know, like why, allow Wayne to believe you want him to go. I get why. But also I'm like don't make this kid relive the trauma of you tossing him aside. But I knew it was gonna happen.

Speaker 4: 1:56:34

It was so painful it's if anyone who took psych 101 uh read about the harry harlow experiment, which was the rhesus monkeys that one had cuddly.

Speaker 4: 1:56:44

It's about attachment in children and one had a, uh yeah soft cuddly, uh mother figure to attach to, and the other one had just like a wire frame, um, and I was like watching that in in this she's like, oh my god, he was hoping he had, yeah, you know, found some. He's being abandoned in front of our very eyes. She says, okay, yeah, I mean, if it was my house, of course, sure, but it's Calvin, so I don't really have that kind of say Go ahead, boss. What else does she say?

Speaker 2: 1:57:20

She says plus, I don't think you really want to stay here, right? Which means it's everybody's fault except for hers. Calvin doesn't want you to stay. I can't say that you get to stay. You probably don't want to. She in fact says you know, I don't make the decisions, honey.

Speaker 3: 1:57:38

But she yes, she is absolving herself. So I'm glad you pointed that out. It also strikes me in this scene that her life consists of figuring out how to navigate men. No-transcript. But look, even now. Look at the way she smiles and she comes in with a joke.

Speaker 4: 1:58:14

Yeah well, she says like you don't want to stay here, you know, come on, it's not like you want to stay, like rent. You want to live in the same house? Come on, we all know that's like. I want to live in the same. Come on, like, we all know that's like. Uh, I want to point out um, I always I one of the hills I'll always die on is that comedy is harder than drama. Um, and this is why michaela watkins, who plays maureen mcnalty, gets a lot of credit for how funny she is. But this is, this is great act. I mean, this is so brutal, this is so brutal, it is so brutal to to do this. I mean, like, you watch this scene and you feel something die inside of you. I can only imagine like acting in this scene. I don't make the decisions, honey, like. And then wayne said this is coach. What does wayne say to that? This, this is really, really brutal. She's okay, sweetie, I don't make those decisions. And then wayne says what.

Speaker 3: 1:59:04

You shouldn't call me that, no more. And I was like oh dear what he said I was. I didn't know where the scene was going after that line, but I did like kind of wince, like yeah, and he's. I mean, the pain on his face is just, oh, he's not facing her.

Speaker 4: 1:59:22

He's's looking away, but you see a huge I mean just a tremendous amount of respect for Mark McKenna, who plays Wayne, To be able to go from that childlike, innocent face you can convey a lot.

Speaker 3: 1:59:35

Did you like the shows, Mommy? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:59:37

All is bought. His whole demeanor changes, his facial expression changes, his physicality changes uh, he shouldn't call me that no more. She's um in the background, but she's out of focus and we watch him process this. He's starting to breathe heavy, he's fighting back tears and then she walks the door and she says I could not believe that they wrote this. Was was so like. If you're writing this, you're like the most wicked person ever, boss. What does she say on the way she turns, go to the door and then looks back at him and then what does she say Boss?

Speaker 2: 2:00:13

Maybe you should have gone after that girl. Huh, yeah, you mean the girl.

Speaker 3: 2:00:19

I am separated from because I chose you, that girl. Is that the girl I should have gone after? Holy shit.

Speaker 2: 2:00:27

So there's so much that's happening in this scene, the way that she is absolving herself of it, the way that she is making him equal to her in this decision, and it's like, oh well, you don't want to stay here, you want to be someplace else. Where the fuck else he's going to be, because he's a 16 year old kid with no money and no mode of transportation, who the fuck knows? But she's saying, oh, I don't want you here, but you don't want to be here. So we're basically the same and there's um god, there's this absolutely blisteringly hilarious line in it's always sunny in ph Philadelphia, where Mac is like trying to say something to the group and Dennis, out of nowhere, maniacally shouts look at me when you're talking to me Like so pissed off that Mac won't have the fucking decency, the goddamn spine, to address him directly when he's talking this shit.

Speaker 2: 2:01:21

And it's what I kept thinking the whole time that she was doing this. Like, fucking, look at him. When you're talking to him, what you are. You are so slimy right now in the way that you're trying to get away with this and then to make that joke at the end to be oh well, you probably should have gone after her like what the fuck are you talking about?

Speaker 3: 2:01:40

it's, but what is she talking about? Because we know that she wants Wayne Sr to come after her, or did she? You know what I mean? There's a lot going on, as you said, in this scene he says what do you care?

Speaker 4: 2:01:56

and then he says you don't even like her. She'll be best friends, though, seeing as how you both like taking off on everybody. And she says I've thought a lot about what would have happened, okay, if things had been different, which at least she is looking him in the eye right now. But she says what here boss?

Speaker 2: 2:02:16

But your dad never came after me and he says maybe because he didn't have a car.

Speaker 3: 2:02:25

I mean, we're here now.

Speaker 2: 2:02:29

And it's oh my God, there's, there's, this is. I knew that it was going to break bad. I knew that it wasn't going to turn out well.

Speaker 4: 2:02:38

I thought that he was going to be perfect.

Speaker 2: 2:02:42

I was really banking on. He would eventually realize that she was not going to ever be the mom that he wanted and he was going to leave. I was hoping that would have been. That would have been best case scenario. This is fucking brutal in a million different ways. The act of choosing your partner over your child is so wildly destructive. I know it happens all the fucking time. I understand how much it happens. It is still like there is very little you could do to your kid. That's worse than that and I think we're going to see in the next couple of scenes and we'll talk about and compare. But even at times, beating the ever-loving shit out of them isn't as painful as saying I am not choosing you like. What she said was he makes the decisions, I can't do anything about it. You don't want to stay here. And also, if your dad had done things differently, then maybe I wouldn't have left you. Well, you're, you left.

Speaker 3: 2:03:42

You did leave it doesn't matter what wayne's dad did also. I think it, it, it and I don't want to re-litigate this part. Um, I think we think we discussed it pretty thoroughly, but in terms of like well, she left, what was the story with wayne senior? Was there all of that? Right, it was undone for me a bit with your dad didn't come after me, like it was almost like she took off with the car and the dude to make him come after, like it was a part of some bizarre dance that then he didn't pass.

Speaker 3: 2:04:16

So then she ended up stuck with calvin in the car in Ocala. I don't know, it's dark, it's dark.

Speaker 2: 2:04:27

It's super dark. I think also you know we talk a lot about how hurt people hurt people and you want to understand where Maureen was coming from, that she was in a marriage where she wasn't happy, that she felt like she couldn't be content and comfortable in her home because Wayne Sr was always trying to make her be something that she wasn't. I'm not saying that that was a good situation, but the fact that somebody has abused you, it never means that you can't abuse other people, nor does it mean that you're actually that good at being a good person, Like there might be a reason why you can't do something well, but also you might just be a shitty mom. Maybe it's that Wayne abused her, Maybe she was just always a shitty mom.

Speaker 4: 2:05:22

I doubt it. I mean she looks like a pretty great mom here I mean?

Speaker 3: 2:05:25

I mean, let's ask what the hammer and the uh, the shiner?

Speaker 2: 2:05:31

the fucking shiner.

Speaker 3: 2:05:32

Yeah, I mean we definitely have some questions to ask the line from this scene that stands out.

Speaker 2: 2:05:38

she says oh come, wayne, by the way, after uh saying he didn't have a, starts tearing down the shelves and breaking the candles and destroying everything. Don't say it. I can't blame him. I know that we just talked about controlling your emotions and keeping those in check and everything else, but this is understandable to me.

Speaker 4: 2:05:56

Who's ever modeled that for him anyway?

Speaker 3: 2:05:58

Exactly yes, he just does what he sort of knows to do.

Speaker 2: 2:06:03

And she's saying oh, come on, wayne, what are you doing? Stop, please. It doesn't have to be like this, and you know what. It does have to be like this because this is how it is. It does have to be like this because this is what is happening. He is reacting to her physically with the same level of emotional violence that she was just reacting towards him.

Speaker 3: 2:06:23

Yeah, first of all violence, that she was just reacting towards him. Yeah, first of all, that is incredibly insightful. I didn't see that and I love that it's such a boss statement.

Speaker 4: 2:06:32

It's such a yeah like hey, let me break this down for you. It may look like you were smiling, but it wasn't, that was violent, you're right.

Speaker 3: 2:06:42

Interesting, anyway, both things can be true, so I'll share this. What I saw in this scene was a woman whose life is in many ways shaped by the out of control, rage and violence of the men around her. Yes, like she. Like she had Wayne and she's got Calvin, who we just watched do pretty much what Wayne's doing now, just with smaller bottles, right, yeah. And then Wayne, like, and then obviously, she lives in a house with Reggie who has chamomile over here. You know what I mean. Like she's just surrounded by that and so she goes. She's just surrounded by that and so she goes. Ah, here we go, like the. The glimmer of not that the glimmer of my shelves went up, the glimmer of my bottle you know, somebody cared about my candles is out now, like back to. This is what life is, is it this?

Speaker 4: 2:07:39

is what men do, her candles it's so interesting. He would just set this up and he's breaking the shelves. That he did. And you're right, coach. She says she's like oh, god damn it. And then she says something you know what? You're all the fucking same.

Speaker 3: 2:07:52

And I wanted to say, before we got to that line, because I thought it, I thought like he's a man, like in this scene, as far as, like her experience of the world. It's like, oh right, you're my son, but you're a man, but you're still a yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:08:08

Although the only thing I need to say about that and I have spent all week online arguing with people, even though I swore to God I was going to stop doing that about the ways in which women are victimized and conditioned to put up with abusive men and all these other things Not every man is abusive, obviously that's true, but not every man is abusive.

Speaker 4: 2:08:31

We try to be, we try to be as part of it. In the manual it does say, sure, absolutely, you know, but yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:08:37

But you know from justified if you meet an asshole in the morning. He was an asshole. If you meet an all day every day. You're the, and so there's a little bit here that maureen is drawn to men who are like this. That is what she picks, and I'm not saying that this is her fault. I'm saying that she is giving off responsibility for that, and that means that she's putting it on to everybody else.

Speaker 4: 2:09:03

It's, it's not that she is making poor decisions. She's going to land a really great dude with her. Her personal foibles.

Speaker 2: 2:09:10

So, listen, I know you talk about the health, health economy, and I feel like there could be ways where, societally, we should have a better safety net so that she could be I. I still can't Thank you, boss. Oh, better safety net so that she could be I.

Speaker 4: 2:09:24

I still can't. Thank you, boss. Oh my God, Hold on. No, that's my thing. I work at a fucking nonprofit.

Speaker 2: 2:09:27

I'm not saying people just help each other, I'm saying there should be so.

Speaker 4: 2:09:32

now you stole, I stole my idea from you.

Speaker 2: 2:09:32

Okay, I mean we'll talk about it offline, but yeah. But the saddest part about this for me, other than fucking Wayne's little face that made me sob so, so much Right now he is 16, and she is technically Wayne Sr's widow. Between the two of them they would have enough in survivor benefits through Social Security that, along with whatever she could make on the candles and whatever he could get in a part-time, even full-time job at 16, they might be able to do make it by. They theoretically could eke out a living and get away from Calvin and Reggie, and the two of them together could have figured their shit out.

Speaker 3: 2:10:17

You're not wrong.

Speaker 2: 2:10:19

But she-.

Speaker 3: 2:10:21

You're a little wrong.

Speaker 2: 2:10:22

I don't think so. Man, those fucking Okay you're a little wrong.

Speaker 4: 2:10:24

I don't think so man, those fucking.

Speaker 1: 2:10:25

let me tell you something about social security but no, this.

Speaker 2: 2:10:28

This was the chance where, if he, when Calvin, said either he goes or you go with him, and she was like fucking fine, I'm taking my car, my fucking car, and my son and I are leaving. This was the one chance where she sort of had to turn it around, but she couldn't do it.

Speaker 4: 2:10:45

I just want to point out, just because the way you framed that boss, the greatest exit line in the history of humanity. You know Oscar Wilde's final line before he died you're going to die. He said either that wallpaper goes or I do. Okay.

Speaker 2: 2:11:02

Listen, I'm not saying that I do Okay.

Speaker 3: 2:11:05

Listen, I'm not saying I pray that I can toss one of those off my radar. No one will ever be bad Wow.

Speaker 4: 2:11:13

That is I just. Anyway, I was thinking about ultimatums. You're right. She says you're all the same. I got nothing to say to this. And Glass is crashing Hands in the air. Hey, I'm out like she's like this. Yeah, washing my hand, this is not, this is not me. Um, wayne throws a candle at not at her, but like across the room in her direction. Now we see she's gone, she has vamus and there are a couple uh sort of terrible portraits on the wall. We get close closeups of them and then we see Wayne walk slow motion up to them, smash punches. These are glass encased photos. One, bam fist breaks the glass on the Calvin portrait. Fist brace the glass on the mom portrait, on the Maureen portrait. I never understand people that punch glass, but okay. And we see him slow motion walk out and he goes right for the car. At least he'll get the the, the consolation prize of he'll get his fucking dad's car back and lo and behold, as he walks through it, we get a shot of him walking towards it, music over top.

Speaker 3: 2:12:25

Um, and you'll never believe it, the keys are sitting on the goddamn passenger seat, to which coach had a visible, like audio, reaction, like oh, be careful oh, okay, I'm glad you caught that, because I was, because it's I don't know, it's my life to this point, I don't know what to tell you, but I was like you are not looking around enough, you are not, like it's not going to be easy, like there's a part of me that was, like you, about to get clocked.

Speaker 3: 2:12:56

I don't understand, I don't know how, yet I don't know, but like you're not just going to walk out of here, you, it's not going to be like that, you're not going to waltz out.

Speaker 4: 2:13:02

Yeah, like no way it's God free, Right, no way. So we get an insert shot of the keys. Wayne goes in, throws his bag on the seat, closes the door, grabs the keys I'll be damned. The thing starts right up. It's a monster. He revs it, puts it in drive and then hits the gas and nothing happens. And then hits the gas and nothing happens. And he looks out the window and what has happened here, boss?

Speaker 2: 2:13:28

Oh, the back tires are up on a jack, so he can't leave.

Speaker 4: 2:13:33

It's literally a trap. It's a rear-wheel drive car and they have left it with the wheels off the ground. They've jacked it up. The wheels are just off the ground, not going to go. Front wheels are just fucking hot wheels, don't do anything.

Speaker 2: 2:13:47

And before we move on too much from the smashing of the room and the pictures and everything else, I absolutely want to reiterate that when people break things near or at you in those ways, if somebody throws a glass at your head across the room, that is still 100 violent him punching the pictures. I don't, it's fucking fine, great. Like there has been a lot of talk recently about the property damage done at campuses and that human destruction is not equivalent to property destruction. Like when people were talking about um during the black lives matters protests. They were like oh, the writing that happened. Well, number one, that wasn't actually most protesters. That's a different thing. But also I I don't give a shit about looting. If you have insurance and if it could be replaced, it will be fine. Like I am not going to say that somebody, Wayne, in this situation, when he is this heartbroken and this upset punching a picture when nobody is around, I'm fine with that, Fucking fine.

Speaker 4: 2:14:52

I wish I could agree with you. I totally disagree.

Speaker 3: 2:14:55

It's the conversation worth having.

Speaker 4: 2:14:58

We've talked about this before, because I grew up in a family where we had a little shop. We had no money People used to steal from us. You can say insurance, but insurance is the great talk about the great satan. Oh for sure you're not going to get all your shit back. You're not going to get the right money for. They're going to hold out. They're going to find some clause that means they only have to pay for 35 cents on the dollar. I mean, it's just.

Speaker 2: 2:15:17

It's just a nightmare it's a total nightmare, but it can ruin your family over nothing.

Speaker 4: 2:15:22

Like you know, you didn't do anything, you just weren't there when things got looted. So yeah, it's whatever but. I get where you're coming from in the discrepancy between humans and violence and property.

Speaker 2: 2:15:33

And also that what you're referring to is capitalism taking advantage of people and not people taking advantage of people. Like the insurance companies suck because they're going to try to screw you out of your money. Like the insurance companies suck because they're going to try to screw you out of your money. And so I'm not saying that it's great, but I'm saying when people like, oh, can you believe that they tore down a CVS, I'm like well, fucking CVS will be fine. Like are people dying? Do we need to worry about that more?

Speaker 3: 2:15:58

That is a larger concern. It's totally interesting to me that you picked that CVS, because that's exactly that is specifically what was talked about in one of these times the CVS and I actually did a storytelling piece I will share in the community. But I did a storytelling piece where I compared being Black in America and being a passenger on Spirit Airlines, and they line up a lot more than you would think.

Speaker 4: 2:16:28

I'm just connecting the dots in my head. That's fucking great.

Speaker 3: 2:16:32

People have contacted me over years about this piece. One of the things I said during it when I was talking about police brutality and whatever I was like fuck your fucking CVS. I don't give a fuck about that cvs, burn it down I don't give a fuck.

Speaker 4: 2:16:50

Anybody care about the feelings of a multinational corporation. No, no, but I'm hearing, but, but, but, but.

Speaker 3: 2:16:55

Even if it's not a no, no, no I know, I know you're kidding, but I'm saying like I hear what you're saying and I also find myself going like there's, yeah, I hear, but I do hear you, and I hear you saying like hold on a second, like I'm a store owner who like has nothing to do Right. It was like oh my God, like would I'm the powers that be now.

Speaker 2: 2:17:18

Like.

Speaker 3: 2:17:18

I don't know what the fuck to do.

Speaker 2: 2:17:19

So anyway, it's an interesting thing. I mean again the grocery store just around the corner from me. I will never, ever, ever steal. I accidentally they forgot to ring up something and I went back the next time I was in. I was like you guys had to charge me for two avocados and not just one. And they were like, please, please, get the fuck out of here with that shit. I'm not going to waste my time to charge you a dollar twenty five.

Speaker 3: 2:17:38

I was like, ok, well, that's fine, I guess but you know, I'm gonna say this to you, boss you have such integrity and I'm serious, you have put together.

Speaker 4: 2:17:51

No, no, no, no.

Speaker 3: 2:17:52

You have what to know, right now to have integrity, oh my god, is to live by your values I gotta put that on something now.

Speaker 2: 2:18:00

No, I am dead serious.

Speaker 3: 2:18:03

You have your code and you're, and you are true to them, because you have told us about things you do take.

Speaker 1: 2:18:09

Oh, yeah, but that also has its rules, yeah, you have.

Speaker 3: 2:18:12

You are clear. You're not just like, oh, there are things in the world and indiscriminately, they all can just end up in my purse. You're like this is why this works here. But when it comes to this, that is not, and I no, I really mean it. I know coach is gonna like totally give you a hard time now, but I'm dead serious if you go back to a store.

Speaker 3: 2:18:32

I probably I can promise you I shouldn't promise you. Maybe I would have done it if you caught me in the right mood, but 99 times out of 100 I'm like well you know, I'm sure you fucked me on the price of the rice anyway, so whatever I.

Speaker 2: 2:18:43

I should mention I'm at that store literally twice a week, so it was the next time I was in I was like hey, you missed this thing. Can I give you a dollar? And they're like we don't want to waste the time to figure out how to key that in, so then you could have thrown it in the tip jar. They don't have a.

Speaker 4: 2:18:58

If they did, I would have, you could be like oh, I, accidentally, am going to leave this here, wink, wink.

Speaker 2: 2:19:04

If the tip jar were, I was going to make a rude comment about the hot assistant manager. But I won't.

Speaker 4: 2:19:11

But I would throw dollars at him if that were an acceptable thing to do, jesus Christ, I would If he spelled the alphabet on a pole.

Speaker 2: 2:19:22

He looks just like a cross between John Carter from ER and Jeremy Allen White, and I don't know how, but he's really attractive and I try not to stare at him.

Speaker 4: 2:19:32

I thought you don't usually go in for really attractive people. I thought that wasn't really your thing.

Speaker 2: 2:19:36

Well, attractive to me?

Speaker 4: 2:19:38

I don't know if other people looked at him A guana-looking motherfucker, yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:19:42

A guana looking motherfucker is so accurate, oh shit, oh. This conversation is revealing way too much to me about me, ah shit.

Speaker 4: 2:19:52

Okay, well, we get this. Uh, we get this. This moment here where Wayne looks out and we get a shot from behind. We see now the Jack stands behind the wheels.

Speaker 3: 2:20:05

That sucker's not going anywhere. This, this, uh, and the way it's done, it is truly like you can see that it was done to just be in just high enough, like they didn't say like you're going nowhere, buddy, this was intended to be, this was, this is a mousetrap, those keys were cheese.

Speaker 4: 2:20:26

That was the cheese cue the Tom Hardy.

Speaker 3: 2:20:29

That's bait meme at this point it's like, oh no, go ahead coach, cause it gets interesting we get a shot from inside the car.

Speaker 4: 2:20:41

We're in passenger seat as Wayne turns back in and bam, reggie flies from the back seat and the back seat's good for fucking. Yeah, that's right. Uh, um and um. Now Reggie has a I mean, it's a screwdriver which I was like. That is so fucked up. It's actually like.

Speaker 3: 2:21:03

I find it more menacing than if he had a knife, because to me anyone would think a knife. But if you have a screwdriver in your hand, you're a violent motherfucker who has done violent things before. If that's your reaction, I'll get me a screwdriver and straighten this motherfucker out Like you have done some violence. You know what you're doing.

Speaker 2: 2:21:22

You'll use a spoon to rip out his heart. You know what you're doing. You'll use a spoon to rip out his heart. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 2:21:27

Just as good there is a blade on that.

Speaker 4: 2:21:30

There's a little tiny. It's a standard screwdriver, not a Phillips head, so the drive on it is sharp enough to do whatever damage you need it to do. No, it has like prison weapon vibes yeah right, anything can be a weapon in the hands of someone who knows how to use it. Go ahead, boss.

Speaker 2: 2:21:47

In order to make sure that none of the listeners get upset. Yes, that was a reference to Robin Hood, prince of Thieves, when he shouts about how I'll tear your heart out with a spoon. Why a spoon? It's dull, it'll hurt more.

Speaker 4: 2:22:02

Ah, Alan Rickman.

Speaker 2: 2:22:02

Ah, fucking Alan Rickman, oh fucking Alan.

Speaker 4: 2:22:05

Rickman, I got to love it. I I'm not God, I could just talk. I could talk for another hour about watching that film and just being how everybody who watched that film was blown away Like you never thought. Oh, the best part of it is going to be the sheriff. It's like like uh, anyway, the best part of it is going to be the sheriff of nottingham. It's like like uh, anyway.

Speaker 4: 2:22:27

I mean absolutely phenomenal, no small actors. Um, I meant to. I meant to mention that when we talked about the security guard, uh, who, like you, got an insight into her life at the pool with dell, you know you just. But again, the writing is so good, it really reveals character for all these people. Um, now, uh, wayne is stuck because reggie man, reggie has him, he has his head locked, he's got his arm around him, he's got the screwdriver to his throat and then I knew he was a fucking red hander. He says and then calvin walks up slowly and whistles and as soon as wayne looks over out the window, it's a full knockout punch from the window and absolutely, and wayne and reggie barely gets the screwdriver off his neck before the punch comes sailing through and and cold talks wayne um, you get the sense.

Speaker 3: 2:23:20

this isn't the first time they set somebody up. There was not a lot of discussion. Everybody knew their parts. Everybody knew what to do Now, on the technical side, if we're not going to keep going, are we going to go into?

Speaker 4: 2:23:33

the next scene. We're done.

Speaker 3: 2:23:35

But let me point this out because we will lose this in between episodes. We'll go into the actual next scene in a moment. But the punch is going from our right to our left and it's violent and it's sudden and it's jarring. And the next shot has a car coming through frame left to right and I would argue that it makes the violence of that first movement feel even more intense. It's like a relative velocity thing.

Speaker 4: 2:24:05

Like a freight train-y kind of continuity, continuity vibe. You know what I'm saying. Like it's doubly.

Speaker 3: 2:24:09

It's like doubly fast from right to left, because immediately we don't go to stillness, we go to left to right, so it just like oh yeah, that's really good yeah, that much harder I hadn't thought of that, because that's not how my brain does things.

Speaker 2: 2:24:23

But but yeah, no, that's absolutely true. That is what happened to me.

Speaker 3: 2:24:28

Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's, it's intentional. I'm going to do a quick last, quick share. I'm going to get out of your way, coach.

Speaker 4: 2:24:36

But because I thought about fucking time relative velocity.

Speaker 3: 2:24:38

I actually there's a theory. I'm I'm dubbing myself philosopher and I thought about this. With life, I'm actually serious. You know, people say life comes at you fast and I am of the. You know, we, we I think most people we've been taught like, all right, life's coming at me and I'm going to go at life and I'm going to, and I, and actually I'm coming. I've started thinking about life in terms of the idea of relative velocity. I'm like no, no, no, if life's coming at you fast and you charge into it, every collision is all the more violent in your life. We got to find stillness.

Speaker 2: 2:25:17

Oh.

Speaker 3: 2:25:18

And actually we really actually will be slowing our experience of life down because we're not charging into something that is coming at us anyway. So just something to think about.

Speaker 4: 2:25:30

I love that. We've had a lot of revelations on this particular episode. We've had stillness, we've had iguana looking motherfuckers, we've had integrity shockingly integrity.

Speaker 3: 2:25:45

Didn't see integrity coming.

Speaker 4: 2:25:49

Did not have integrity on the bingo card. We're going to stop there. We'll pick it up. We'll finish this episode next time.

Speaker 3: 2:25:58

Coach, where do people find you? If they want to find you, come by alignpcom Check out what we do. I want to start really pushing to get out into the world and help people do this thing. So come by AlignPcom and check it out. Speaker page. I'll come through where you are and let's have a good time. Make the world a better place.

Speaker 4: 2:26:16

Coach spends a lot of time making the world a better place. Just this past weekend he did a diversity and inclusion session where, at the end of it, people clapped and cheered. That doesn't happen in a diversity and inclusion session. What they do is they feel shamed and chastised and they grumble and go. I can't wait for this fucker to get out of here. They really did clap. It was very funny. Instead, they clap for Coach, because that's who he is. He's a wonder of the modern world and thank you, coach. Everyone, please visit the IP. Contrarily, on the other side we have Boss.

Speaker 2: 2:26:54

Nobody's ever clapped for me ever.

Speaker 4: 2:26:55

No one's ever, nor should they, Nope. Where do people find you if they want to find you?

Speaker 2: 2:27:02

So mostly you can find me on threads which is emilychambers.31. Also, as I mentioned before, I'm an accountant. We finally filed our corporate tax return and I get to have a life again. It's official. So, I will be on the community site. I would highly recommend you come through. I will be posting stuff and catching up, so be prepared for, like I don't know, 14 to 280 messages of me responding to stuff from the past two or three months. But do that. Become a member, join the Buttercups, it'll be great.

Speaker 4: 2:27:40

Awesome. Thank you, boss. And also, on the side of being booed, not clapped uh, you can, you can. Um, uh, please, uh. On my side of the equation uh, please, support your local libraries and the written word. And I'll say it again raise better boys. It'll just help everybody. Um and uh. This is this is going to be airing on fr. So I remind you that tomorrow is the final of Eurovision, the grand final. Boss is making a face, but it's okay. I watched the semifinals on Tuesday night. It was so much fun. It went too fast. There's another final.

Speaker 4: 2:28:20

If you're hearing this, on Friday, you missed a semifinal on Thursday, but Saturday is the big event, and there was one of the songs I played for. I don't know if Boss was still on the recording when I played it, but there was a song called Rim Tim, tuggy Dim that I've never seen everyone. It was a semifinal last night. I've never seen everyone dance, and so the crowd was singing the refrain for the for the guy and I was like huh, like, this is a new. They usually sing along for the songs that they like, but not to the point where he could count on them actually filling in properly. I was like oh, this is a. This is a wrinkle. So there's a lot of great contenders and it remains to be seen who's going to win, but if you're hearing this and you have an inkling to tune in, that will be on Saturday and that is it for us.

Speaker 4: 2:29:12

Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Wayne. Episode 9, thought we Was Friends and we'll be back to finish it up. Actually, we might do the very special episode for Coach next time if coach can get his ducks in a row. Um, the, the, the backstory of this. I don't even know how you're gonna do it, coach, because I was listening to one guy talk about it and the amount of beef and the amount of rivalry it goes back over a decade there are all kinds of people, of all.

Speaker 3: 2:29:38

It's insane everybody.

Speaker 4: 2:29:40

It's like mentors of mentors of mentors and which mentor screwed a mentor out of a check for a certain? And you go oh my God, it is like it is something, so I will. I cannot wait to sit back and just learn and we'll go from there. So it'll either be in the way next time or it'll be depending on coaches availability. We'll do that very special episode and that's it. And then we'll pick up the final episode of Wayne and then, what you know, boy, boy, howdy, we will have a two, two, two shows in the can, as they say. Thank you, everybody, and until next time we are Richmond.

Speaker 3: 2:30:27

Till we squat in your pool and make you come fuck up your tummy, those poor chinos.

Speaker 4: 2:30:35

Alright, thanks everybody. We'll see you next time.