Wayne | S1 Ep10 Part2 "Buckle the F**k Up"

WAYNE ON YOUTUBE

The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpieces that are Ted Lasso on Apple TV+ and Wayne on YouTube.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on all things AFC Richmond.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the Lasso way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 4: 0:40

Okay, welcome back, beautiful people. Today we are discussing Wayne, episode 10. Buckle the fuck up. This is our part two of our discussion. I'm your host, coach Castleton, and with me, as always, is Coach Bishop.

Speaker 3: 0:55

We've got a cleanup on aisle five.

Speaker 4: 1:02

This one gets messy. This one gets messy, um uh, with us is our boss, emily chambers um.

Speaker 5: 1:07

So when he said aisle five, he did mean uh, aisle five of the bowling alley, lane five lane the reference is still fine, especially because, uh, it reminds me that in high school, one of my five, my bff from high school we had um two semesters of bowling in gym class because our teacher was retiring and he didn't give a shit anymore. So we spent one solid semester bowling and every single day she would somehow fall at some point during the bowling, every single time, like every single day for four months straight, or whatever it was.

Speaker 4: 1:47

The PE teacher no, no, no, my BFF, she would fall.

Speaker 5: 1:51

Every time we were bowling she would fall, and I said that to another friend of ours when we were all bowling one time Swim Quinn. And as we're bowling, mandy not fallen once. We're in the 10th frame and she is making me a liar. She has not yet fallen and I feel like an asshole because I promised at some point she was going to go ass up. Luckily for me, she saved it by in the last frame.

Speaker 5: 2:18

She was able to bowl, chucking the ball down the alley as hard as she could, somehow not fully letting go of the ball though alley as hard as she could, somehow not fully letting go of the ball though like not releasing it properly, and just completely spread out like all the way into the lane. Like bam, bam, bam down the lane. The ball sort of scurries off into the gutter. A little bit. We're laughing, obviously, because it's funny when your friends get hurt. So we're laughing really, really hard. And then the guy comes on the PA and he's like excuse me, bowlers, could you please not fling yourselves down the alley along with your balls?

Speaker 5: 2:55

And so then of course it was over Like we were never we were never bowling again, because it was the funniest shit that had ever happened. Mandy, just flat out, as much as you could fall, she fell In every way. It was the platonic ideal of falling. And then the bowling alley owner called it out in front of everyone.

Speaker 4: 3:18

That's like. You'll see Barney Rubble follow the ball down, it's like a. It's like a punchline. That's not really like no one, that couldn't happen.

Speaker 5: 3:28

It couldn't have. If I hadn't told Quinn that Mandy did fall, she would not have fallen. But because I set it up that way, I don't believe in the secret, but I did secret that into the universe.

Speaker 4: 3:42

I love it. I love it, you're, you're a powerful witch, that you're pronoun powerful witch.

Speaker 5: 3:45

Um that you're pronouncing it wrong, but thank you.

Speaker 4: 3:48

Um, we, uh, you may notice, uh, boss and coach, that I am, um, I'm not wearing the required uniform today. I did notice that is because, uh, I'm wearing the shield. I have a broken washing machine which, for a family of six, is apocalyptic. Yeah, and, and what, what? What normal people do, people who have you know resources, is what, what would, what would, what would they do? What? What would you do, coach, if? If you're washing Emergency?

Speaker 3: 4:25

repair person or sign for a new washing machine. We cannot hold up the works here and then.

Speaker 4: 4:35

what would that look like? Like, walk me through the steps. This one's done from what I saw.

Speaker 2: 4:43

So yeah, Ours is done.

Speaker 4: 4:45

It was great.

Speaker 3: 4:45

We bought it a while ago, or similar type where Sears applies Something fast where it's like look, we can fundamentally trust that they're not going to send something that's going to break next week and just go ahead and fire that bad boy up. We probably have an account with a couple places where we could do that. Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 4: 5:09

Yeah, and you're talking Day or two. Now there's a dryer, we have a stack, so we have a washer front-loading washer with the dryer above it, and so the dryer works so, but do you get rid of the do?

Speaker 2: 5:25

you get a whole new everything, a whole new everything or do you just replace the wash?

Speaker 4: 5:29

it's not. It's not a unit, they're individual I would replace the washer.

Speaker 3: 5:33

I would. I would sort of like if it's under the gun like this, I would not, because the more you try to include, the more you've got to figure out and learn and can get wrong, like if you know the dryer's good. I would just be looking to stop the family bleeding Because three days tops Family of six, oh my God, you're going to be buried in laundry.

Speaker 4: 5:57

For sure. Now the plot thickens because the last time I painted the bathroom we have one bathroom and there's also a washer dryer in it and the last time I painted I had to slide both units out. So imagine a front-loading washer, front-loading dryer on top of it and I slide them away so I can get behind it. And also, every time you have to clean the clear the, you know you have to clean the, the lint out of the, you know the dryer vent thing, and so whenever I do that, I have to slide it out. And whenever I slide the washer out, the dryer starts getting real ornery and sort of not working. It always comes back.

Speaker 4: 6:43

I know this is crazy and you say why it always comes back. I know this is crazy and you say why are we talking about this on a podcast devoted to television? But it is such a for me. You go because because for me, in like, in this day and age, okay, here's what I believe and I could be wrong, but I believe most people are, I don't know say most people, a tremendous amount of people who are not publicizing it, are hurting for money.

Speaker 4: 7:03

I just, I know way more people hurting for money than ever before, like just it's just because, for whatever reason, I you know, it's like everything. It feels like it's stretched a little tighter. I feel like consumer prices of you know like you need to talk about. You know cereal, you know it's $7.99 a box or something. You know things like that where you're like little tiny things that you just didn't notice, of sort of uh, cut away at everyone's um money and I have a hard time dropping several thousand dollars on a new washer dryer. Now, that's because that's what it costs, um, but there's a case to be made for it's like that's what you do. Drop it on.

Speaker 3: 7:43

Yes, that's where you go, okay, yes, that's that's where you draw the line I will toss in, and this is something that um daphne and I have really been on the same page about for years now. But it is often better to spend, like the number of let's say even power tools that I own now over all these years, the number of times I bought the goddamn Fisher Price. Oh, do I really need all of that version? Only to find out. Yeah, actually I do need all of that, and I just wasted half a fucking day using this toy when I could have had this job done in two hours. You know what I mean. So I will tell you.

Speaker 3: 8:29

As you know, our children are 19 years old, and when we bought the treadmill that I have now used twice extensively to train for a marathon, in addition to all the other use, it's gotten Daphne was pregnant. Gotten, um Daphne was pregnant. That's a 20 year old treadmill that I can go jump on this afternoon and run until I'm done running. Do we get service and stuff? You know what I mean. Like you know how many fucking bullshit. You know, hey, there's a Christmas sale $199 treadmills. We would have gone through by now and they would have, and we would have not exercised, because who the fuck wants to run on that thing. Sometimes I think, yeah, you go ahead, you got to, it hurts, it hurts, but you go ahead and do it and then you're good.

Speaker 4: 9:19

Yeah, I appreciate that I have gone in the other direction. Sometimes you're great and if I told you what I've done, you would Like what we're not going to get.

Speaker 3: 9:34

Negro spirituals in the background are we, we might Thank you boss. I wasn't sure about that one. I was like go for it.

Speaker 2: 9:44

It landed my.

Speaker 4: 9:47

God, I, I, I have made the. I don't even know if I want to say this out. You know, you know what. Let's just move on. I don't have to, I don't have to explain what I've done, because it's, it's not, it's um, it's not, it's not, it's not effective, what I've, what I've done, and and.

Speaker 4: 10:10

But I have tried to save some money and and I am very, and I'm very handy, and so I have tried to repair another washing machine that I had, and, um, which is the same size as the one I had, which I thought, okay, if I can swap it out, it's the exact same, oh, loading kind of thing. And I was like you know, all I needed was a belt and I was like I can, did you do it? Is it working? I did it turns on. It's like it's way, way nicer than the one that just broke. So so it's one. I don't even it's so hard, so, but anyway, it doesn't matter, but it's like far, far newer and far nicer than the current one that just died, and it's the exact same size. And I thought, okay, if that one ever dies, I have this one.

Speaker 4: 11:04

I stuck this one in my barn with the like, planning ahead to go like okay, I don't know, I know me, I'm not going to want to spend two grand on the washer or whatever. You know fifteen hundred dollars in the washer, um, so I'll have this one, and then if shit hits the fan, I can just repair this and throw it in. And so that shit hit the fan and I repaired it and everything. The water comes in fine. You know, I have a hose hooked up to it to test it. Everything works, the lights go on. It's so much nicer than the one we have. And it still doesn't work. So I'm like oh, because now I'm like all right, do I call? Like a, do I call and get this one fixed by a repair person? I mean because if it, works.

Speaker 4: 11:44

It's really nice, you are you know I, I don't know, I mean, I don't know enough about you. Know what I mean. I like, is it? I guess it's like for me I'm leaning toward. All right, I'm gonna have a professional look at it and go, oh no, no, this model, you know it's known to, whatever it doesn't work but you know I don't know, I don't, but like I don't have the the internet, I've run through every question in the internet with regard to this model.

Speaker 4: 12:10

It seems like I'm doing everything right. I usually can fix most things. It it's part of my ethos to not waste, not not just like toss out something that I can fix, um, and also like that's money I could put to. You know, camps and food and food, and you know it's like, not like I have a endless supply, so. But then I also feel like a schmuck cause I'm like God damn it. Now I'm going to throw good money after bad to get a repair person. What? Three $400 when it's all said and done.

Speaker 2: 12:37

They might say, oh, we'll come there for 150, but then they'll say oh, the part is going to be 400, and then labor will be 250.

Speaker 4: 12:44

You know what I mean. It's going to be that, and I'm like if I just bought a new washer it would already be done. So anyway, this is the coin. I know it's fascinating to talk about, but I think that people deal with these things all the time and it's that old trope about what is a better value the $5 work boot or the $100 work boot and then it ends up being very clearly the better one.

Speaker 3: 13:11

That's sort of my treadmill take yeah, but I'll say, and I don't pivot with quite your hostly elegance, but what you just laid out I do think belongs in a conversation and seriously in this scene with Wayne. And here's how, for real, one of the things I think doesn't get discussed, especially in a setup like we had in the open, where we're looking at the fathering and like, oh, he's called his kids stupid oh my god, it's his fault.

Speaker 4: 13:49

Toxic mess coach, let's, let's get, let's catch everybody up. When we left off, they were in a bowling alley. It was wayne and conan, the bar, conan, the barbarian and the. There was an abusive father and Wayne and Conan stepped in and slew him basically.

Speaker 3: 14:06

So so I think I think it's worth at the very least processing.

Speaker 3: 14:14

When we talk about the choices that are made and I don't think this means like well, sometimes kids got to get abused because life is rough but I do mean that that guy has made the kinds of choices you're laying out here and he has looked at his bank account and gone, holy shit, like I can't afford chapstick if I do this, like I am fucking done.

Speaker 3: 14:48

And what is the cumulative effect of that generally and then societally, what is the cumulative effect of that on people we almost seem determined not to give the tools to process that brand of of stress and and even shame could be related to it, like I do, like, actually, I think it's something for us to to look at Again, not to say, and until you feel better, call the kids stupid. That's not what I'm saying, but I am saying, even if we say we can't have you doing that and we're clear about that, I think understanding that, like figuring out how that fucking bill is going to get paid when you didn't expect to have to buy a washer, or when you have to figure like that is real shit and it will keep you up at night.

Speaker 4: 15:45

Yes, yes, yes, without a doubt, without a doubt, yeah, no, no, yeah, right, Also yeah, and I also don't. You know, whatever it doesn't. We can move on to Wayne and discuss, you know this guy's choices. I really don't. We talk about the differences between the generations. And god, how did they, how did they parent 12 kids, you know, in the 1940s or 50s? And when they put the kids outside, they say come home before dark. But they also bought one fridge, one vacuum cleaner.

Speaker 3: 16:17

You know, now we have planned us obsoles's listening to this is laughing because their grandmother still has the refrigerator their parents grew up using. That's a real thing, in addition to all the stuff that's out there about living wage and wages stagnating, and we could talk about that stuff globally. We could talk about that stuff domestically. But even beyond that, what it's just sort of like life for most of us and I get that first world problems, but when you know it's the streaming of this and then it's the cell phones for whatever and it's, there's a lot of shit like there are bills, like it's not just that the bills I have are higher than they used to be. I have bills my father never heard of. He died never hearing of it. He like right, I'd have to explain it if he came back. And I think we do have to consider that. You know you can't just have.

Speaker 4: 17:27

You know I'd have to explain it if he came back and I think we do have to consider that, you know you can't just have, you know, a kitchen phone you wouldn't believe how much I pay for data storage every month, like just for our family pictures or whatever, and it's like, yes, I can move them all to a hard drive or back them up, which I have, but I've had, I've lost hard drives before.

Speaker 3: 17:40

Yeah, me too.

Speaker 4: 17:46

I have shit that I'll never get back. Yeah, so, so, anyway, right, these are the questions. And and there's a thing in modern parenting with a lot of us where you know we, we drive cars that are mine's a 2006, juliana's is a 2011. You know we don't have payments on them. You know well, you don't have car payments. You end up having to fix them, so that's a whole other other thing. But you feel like you clip your coupons in order to like, okay, we'll just, you know, to be able to get I don't know, to have something, and then, at the end of the end of the day, you're like oh, but now I have to come up with three thousand dollars for a wash, like you're like, so so it just devalues all the clipping and you're like I'm never getting to the point where you know it's going to, we're going to have a breakout, so it's it's.

Speaker 4: 18:30

It just feels like it gets exhausting. You know we were promised jet packs. Yeah, is my point.

Speaker 3: 18:38

I keep coming back to that. I do think it could be better for a lot of us. There was this is a little bit of a jump, but I think it does play in on the we were promised jet packs front that it was pointed out that we all or not we all, but in America a lot of kids have played Monopoly and that means we all understand how universal basic income keeps the game going. Yep, yeah, and I was just like oh, for those of you who aren't familiar, right, every time you pass, go, you collect $200, essentially, there's rules and stuff around that.

Speaker 3: 19:19

But, essentially, every time you make it around the board you get another 200 bucks and that is basically growing the economy. That's giving everybody a chance to be able to make it back around the board again. If all else fails, at least you got these $200 to help you get back around the board again. Maybe you can buy some shit. We'll see.

Speaker 4: 19:40

Unless you land on the wrong property and a wealthy landowner absolutely fucking sticks it up your butt and takes all your money, true, and then, ultimately, that's what happens when someone wins. So it's like indoctrinating people, using this game to be like yeah, no, it's all about you got to build all the hotels and fuck as many people as you can, and then you win Monopoly. Well, it's called Monopoly. Yeah, no, no, it's awful, I know.

Speaker 3: 20:08

I know this is not the greatest Trojan horse ever built.

Speaker 2: 20:13

Wait, wait, wait.

Speaker 5: 20:15

Except that this is a bootstrap moment where the actual designer was a socialist, who came up with it in order to show how exploitative capitalism that is 100%. Is that true? That is absolutely true.

Speaker 3: 20:29

I fucking adore that. Here's why I love that. Oh my God, you made my fucking day because I feel and I will speak about America right now, the United States of America, because that is a place I feel like I know enough about to speak with some authority. We do that all the fucking time. We are presented with what is supposed to be a cautionary tale and we go. Gordon Gekko ends up going to fucking prison. Tony Montana ends up fucking dead in a in a in a fountain in his goddamn shot to pieces.

Speaker 3: 21:12

Yeah, we, but we choose it. And I've told you, you know, my theory on the, the, the antiheroes of the seventies. The idea of those antiheroes when they were created was to show like, hey, we're not living up to our ideals. And america, literally and now I would say up into our politics has said, well, yeah, fuck ideals, then those are hard. Hmm, ideals are hard, you know, it's not hard being a shit yeah yeah, yeah, and I feel like they're like oh okay.

Speaker 3: 21:53

I didn't realize that was the choice you were gonna make there, but yeah, it's a way to go. Yeah, it's totally a way to go be amoral so this is alright.

Speaker 5: 22:03

I'm gonna try to, as best as I can, tie together a lot of different things that we have been discussing, this episode and prior ones Also real quick. I do need to mention the woman who invented it, who created Monopoly. Her name was Lizzie Maggie and she originally called it the Lamb Lords game, which was intended as an educational tool to illustrate the negative aspects of concentrating land in private monopolies. Exactly so we really, we real, we real fucked that one up.

Speaker 3: 22:34

Yeah, talk about a rebrand. Hard to trust somebody with two first names.

Speaker 5: 22:38

Jesus Christ truck. They really mean it, sorry, I don't understand why every single truck in Chicago.

Speaker 4: 22:47

This is Donna. These are your corporate overlords Interrupt.

Speaker 2: 22:53

She's on to us.

Speaker 4: 22:54

Yeah, get her, get her Move in, move in.

Speaker 5: 22:57

This is a garbage truck backing up which is supposed to be a utility provided by the city. But yes, it is, of course, a private organization that the city leases that to.

Speaker 3: 23:09

Oh, I have thoughts on that topic, but you go ahead.

Speaker 5: 23:12

So what I was going to say partly about, you know, that treadmill feeling, that you're talking about, castleton, of never quite being able to get ahead, and also the lessons that people take from different things that are the opposite of what they were intending to be. And I think you mentioned the generational gap. There is a small part of this that, um, I think I have mentioned before as the very eldest of the elder millennials millennials are fucking out. We are fucking fucking done. There is, especially with slightly older generations, there's this idea that like, oh well, all I need to do it. They're going to give me my retirement money and then I'm going to invest it in the stock market because I can obviously do so much better individually If I learn about the stock market, then I can manage my own retirement. I don't need a pension. That fucked everybody. That fucked everybody. Real good, castleton.

Speaker 5: 24:10

You're saying that you're going to learn how to become sort of a mechanic in order to repair the washing machine, but you don't know, it would be much better if we had shit that lasted much longer or that was really good and still pretty cheap, or if everybody had enough money that they could buy a washer and dryer and it wasn't that big of a deal. This is anytime that you have heard me express a hesitance about the health economy, it is because of these things, because it cannot be on an individual level and I don't think that you're ever saying it should be on an individual level but it needs to be a radical deconstruction of a lot of the ideas that we have in society before we could start doing things in a way that actually impacts people and makes things better. I am in support of universal basic income and universal healthcare and universal housing and universal food and all these other things that you just need to do in order to stay alive. It's fucking wild that we don't have them, and the reason that this brings me back to Wayne is that Wayne has a code. This is him on an individual level, trying to impact the people around him as much as he can.

Speaker 5: 25:20

We talk about doing one thing, but we also need to acknowledge one individual can only do so much Like. There needs to be much larger scale changes that happen In the meantime. It's sort of like I know that I individually don't have that much of an impact on carbon emissions because they're mostly handled by the largest corporations in the world and me taking the train isn't actually going to impact that much. Do I recycle my coke cans? Yes, yes, I do, because even though I know that the idea of an individual carbon footprint was created by some huge polluter in order to move the responsibility off of corporations and onto individuals in order to save the entire fucking planet, even though I know that's true, I'm still going to recycle that fucking can't because I don't know how not to.

Speaker 5: 26:11

So, with that like Wayne, me too, but I don't know if recycling actually, I'm still trying to figure out if it doesn't actually, from what I know, I really want to believe that it is being recycled and it's hard to track Harder to track is is recycling a cardboard box more efficient and less use of resource than making a new one? Not always use of resource than making a new one Not always. There's a lot of stuff that the process of recycling the material is like more carbon taxing than making a new one. Aluminum seems to be pretty good. Seems to be a pretty good trade off there. The other ones no fucking idea.

Speaker 5: 26:58

Anyway, all of this rambling is to say Wayne was let down by a lot of people in a lot of different ways. He has his code, he has individuals that are trying to show up for him and it still doesn't work because the systems are still fucked and we're going to get to a scene I really want to get to Officer Geller's talk about his dad and how those things can that there can be an impact even when you can't change the larger system. I don't want to make people feel like it's all useless and you know, lay down and fucking die. That's not the answer either.

Speaker 5: 27:35

But yeah, I think the mentality of I individually can maximize all the things in my life in order to make sure that I am successful is unhealthy for most people. For most people, it isn't true. For the people for whom it's true, they usually already have resources, and so every time that people say I'm going to fix this, I'm going to do this, I'm going to make the difference, I'm like, yes, I love that you're thinking that also, we might need a lot more people to join it, like I also, we individually can't get this done. It needs to be a systemic change.

Speaker 4: 28:21

Yeah, no, that's I love every time you say anyone says system, you know the um andy sandberg, uh, I threw it on the ground sketch. Oh my god. Oh jesus, I don't think so. You don't know that. Okay, all right, I'm gonna put it on the where he goes. I'm not part of your system?

Speaker 5: 28:40

no, I am it's always either the uh the pirate song or it's the one where he pretended to be Rahm Emanuel. Because even though I fucking hate Rahm Emanuel, I do love so much when Andy Samberg says I'll say shit, that'll make your computer cry.

Speaker 4: 28:56

It's really fucking good uh, huh, okay, all right um, I'm gonna uh put it in the community. I'm gonna put it in the community. And um and uh, yeah, I just opened it up so I can put it in the community. And uh, all right, let's jump into wayne. Um so, um, when we left, uh, they had, they had slain the the gentleman in the bowling alley, wayne, I want to touch on one thing and coach, because I do think it matters as we move on.

Speaker 3: 29:33

Yeah, there's the whole theory that everybody, that we are everyone in our dreams, there's that whole way of looking at it and I know I've shared that I've done. We didn't know it had a name. We started developing it but came to find out that internal family systems is a thing and in the way of like looking at the parts of yourself as an organizing principle, I think that matters in this open a lot. I think that he is the boy, I think he is potentially the father, I think he no-transcript. There we've got Conan, which is just like fuck it. You know what I mean. Let's slash votes and do whatever the fuck we want. I think Wayne's making a decision. I think each of those are there for a reason and I think it matters in the decisions that Wayne is ultimately making here about where his life is going to go from here, like who he's going to be right now between Conan and the father and that he represented for you.

Speaker 4: 30:51

You had the, you had the barbarian in Conan and then you had the, the, a certain take or certain picture of civilization in the family, sort of altercation. And he was in the middle, he was the blocking, put him between them and you were talking about how that was, you thought, an interesting choice and but much closer to conan, like physically.

Speaker 3: 31:30

They didn't put him right with so much symmetry in the shots. You easily could have seen him, you know, sort of halfway between he's right like he. Ultimately he's on conan side. He's just like. I'm not going to do this so I can have all the women and all the riches.

Speaker 4: 31:47

I often rail about the power and control of testosterone, and so I think this is a commentary where it's like and I mentioned this at the end of the last episode, but this is like the barbarism is like oh, I will just live, I don't get what boss said. You look around at all the foundational resources of our current society and you go, oh my God, everything's run by fools and nobody's in it to help anybody. There's no altruistic anything anymore if there ever was. But it is easy to feel let down and if testosterone is whispering in your mind, it is easy to come up with like fuck civilization, I'm outside of it, which is what a boy of 16 might say, and this is why I'm in favor of. I'm an advocate for guidance where I say like, yes, because if he has no one else giving him another way, of course, it's easier to come up with binary solutions like fuck it, I'm a barbarian.

Speaker 4: 32:57

So in the scene we see wayne. It's funny because you have this, this sort of obviously this. You know conan does not exist and I don't believe wayne. It's funny because you have this, this sort of obviously this. You know conan does not exist and I don't believe wayne is a stone cold murderer. But you have the scene which feels like a dream sequence or something, and then we get the splash screen of, and the title sequence and then we see um wayne is still in that mode and it's interesting and and I was like whoa, whoa, whoa, why are we back here? I thought we would snap to something new. But they show him raising his hand and that was the sort of bridge to get him into the real world, where he is in the Ocala Police Department and realizes that he is either sleeping or daydreaming. And what is on his right?

Speaker 5: 33:46

hand, boss, boss. Oh, he is handcuffed to the desk also, just very quickly. I had not heard the theory that everyone in your dream is you. Uh, that makes, uh, some of my sex dreams even weirder.

Speaker 4: 34:01

Okay, Only some of them, huh boss.

Speaker 5: 34:04

Well, yeah, some of them I mean some of them it doesn't make it any weirder. Some of them were already so weird to begin with. It doesn't matter.

Speaker 3: 34:14

I like the way I do that.

Speaker 5: 34:16

Exactly.

Speaker 4: 34:16

That is exactly right, Well you know who would know how to please you more than you boss.

Speaker 5: 34:24

I mean Pablo. Shriver, but I don't think that he's actually listening.

Speaker 4: 34:31

I never thought of that. So Wayne realizes he's in a very bustle and bustle of the Ocala PD and boss. Walk us through what's going on here.

Speaker 5: 34:42

Yeah. So he is at the desk, he's watching everybody move around. There's a guy up at the desk on a karaoke, like a home karaoke microphone type thing, and he is saying check one, check one, check one and come on down to the party tonight. And then the sergeant says I thought I told you to stop doing that. I would like to mention I need to look up his name but I know that he played Detective Art somebody or other Art Bell. He's from Orphan Black and I fucking love him and I need to look up who that is.

Speaker 4: 35:15

Oh, darren, that's Dan Bramavici, is that? Yeah, darren.

Speaker 5: 35:20

Yeah, I'll need to double check and make sure that I got his name right. But Is that, yeah, darren Edwards? Yeah, I'll need to double check and make sure that I got his name right. But Orphan Black is the show with Tatiana Maslany, who is oh, no, no, no, no no, is it?

Speaker 4: 35:31

It's the other guy.

Speaker 2: 35:31

It's not the guy on the mic.

Speaker 5: 35:33

It's the guy who yells at the sergeant. Yes.

Speaker 4: 35:37

Oh, okay, all right Okay.

Speaker 5: 35:44

So then that would be all right keep going yeah, I will look.

Speaker 4: 35:47

Yeah, so I can't keep going. You took the, the video down. Well, oh, why would I do that, boss?

Speaker 3: 35:49

that's, that's very, that's very dumb, that's that's just that's a grandpa level, I can tell you what while we're, oh god what?

Speaker 3: 35:59

while oh, I thought you could do that, okay, so what? While we're doing, while we're figuring this piece out, I'll point out that what's going on in the space is truly hilarious and some excellent writing. I'm going to point to some more as we go, but the fact that this guy is being annoying, actually like this, could have been a total throwaway ha-ha moving on, and instead I thought it was like some outstanding storytelling, as this was going.

Speaker 4: 36:38

So I just want to highlight it, it's inspired and it's like okay, how do you, with every single like okay, when we're at the hospital, it's a guy reacting to getting his girlfriend pregnant for the first time, when it's? You know, everywhere we go, you have these like ancillary. Yeah, you have a guy if we're in a diner, it's about an old couple where the guy takes the mushrooms off the thing and gives them to the and and then the other one talks about some vintage posse, it's, it's, it's all of these little beats. So, uh, they're never satisfied. On on wayne with just like a generic sort of thing, every, every, every um interaction, every scene has a carnival-like quality to it. You know, this is Wayne is sitting handcuffed to a desk, sort of in the back of this Ocala PD booking area kind of thing, and in walks Sergeant Geller in the middle of this rando Deputy Darren doing like a sound check, right, and he's yes, the Sarge is like you got to knock that shit off, yeah.

Speaker 5: 37:51

I also. I would like to mention um, I, I am not a professional writer. I have been paid to write things that have gone on the internet, but I'm in no way of writer. Uh, I do know that it is always really fucking annoying when anybody who does write whether screenplays or novels or whatever else, anytime they tell somebody that inevitably there's going to be one person maybe like one out of 10, who's like oh, I've got a great idea for a novel. Oh, I could do your job. Oh, I could very easily write that movie, I've got a great idea for a movie.

Speaker 5: 38:22

And then they tell you a one-line synopsis of what the movie is and you're like, okay, well, that's an idea for a story. That is not a story Because the story are these things Like. You come up with these characters and you add it to the rest of the shit that Wayne is doing. And now you have a show but saying, oh, a guy goes on a road trip with his girlfriend. That's not a show, that's not a movie. You have the start of what could become maybe an idea. That is nothing it's more difficult than you think

Speaker 2: 38:55

it's always harder.

Speaker 5: 38:57

Just write one scene and you'll fucking realize and it's only because I get someone, not on my behalf, but on the behalf of people who actually do this for a living. I'm like I want somebody to say like oh, you're a teacher. Oh, I could probably be a teacher. Absolutely fucking not. Everybody would know. We couldn't say that I couldn't be a dentist. I can barely brush my teeth.

Speaker 4: 39:21

I remember I moved to LA to be a screenwriter and was meeting up with a friend there who also wanted to be a screenwriter, and I had a friend from high school who just joined me on the trip. He had nothing going on, but he was a smart guy and Yale grad they're not that impressive in my opinion, coach and he came out with us and he was like a science guy and I remember him like a couple weeks into living together and he was like, yeah, I think I'm going to write a screenplay. It doesn't seem that hard. And it almost fractured our friendship indelibly Because I was like, really, I was like, cool, yeah, yeah, do it up, I'd love to read your screenplay. And he, he didn't get through, you know, 10 pages before he gave it. It's it's way, way, way more difficult than people think I want to I'm not.

Speaker 2: 40:13

We're not doing it justice we're not doing it justice.

Speaker 4: 40:16

So I've turned the volume up a tiny bit, just so you can hear how irritating this guy is.

Speaker 2: 40:21

Just for a second check, check checking one check, check, check, check, check one check, checking, one check check now geller walks in down I told you but but that there's also feedback, though.

Speaker 3: 40:36

Like you're doing that and being an absolute pain and turn the fucking speaker, like you're standing in front of the speaker with the. You're doing the one thing you absolutely cannot and should not do, which is to put the microphone directly in front of the speaker, like you're not just being annoying and doing a sound check. Clearly, no one wants, would want, but you're a fucking idiot. But again, I think, as we watch this episode, that we've established this guy is an annoying idiot Plays into the storytelling.

Speaker 4: 41:15

Yes, no, it really does Okay.

Speaker 5: 41:17

So Geller walks in and After he's yelled at by.

Speaker 5: 41:22

Kevin Hanchard is the Sarge who also played Detective Art Bell on Orphan Black. Love him. Yes, he tells him, I told you to stop that. So he finally puts it down and Deputy Darren, as Officer Geller's walking in, says come on down. And he says Sergeant Geller, brock and PD. He's like hey, I'm sorry, I'm just a little pumped. Uh, we're having a big party tonight. I bought uh balloons and uh some yummy candy and I got this sign rented a karaoke machine. Geller's looking over it. He doesn't give a shit, darren, still. So I'm pulling out all the stops. And finally, because he's uh officer geller and this is how he does things, he says well, I'm sure whoever's the party is for tonight will appreciate it. And he said oh, the party's for me. I'm Darren, I'm talking, of course.

Speaker 3: 42:10

Of course it's for you, of course you are, of course.

Speaker 4: 42:13

So then, what do you say If you're a kind person and you go, you know he tries to be. You know, we know, now that he has experienced, yes, uh, you know, we, we know now that he has experienced, yes, he has been through it and he has decided on some eastern philosophy and he has decided on, you know, trying to really help. And so what do you say, coach, in response to, uh, the guy saying I bought all these things for myself. What is the line you say?

Speaker 3: 42:41

oh well, if you don't treat yourself right, who will? Yeah, what can I salvage here and move on? I just want to move on and boss?

Speaker 4: 42:51

what does Darren say?

Speaker 5: 42:52

I love that I'm going to use that. I'm taking that. Listen, I love Wayne and there's no reason to besmirch other shows on Wayne's behalf. But I would like to say I think that this is maybe one of the best examples of how to be Ted Lasso-like in real life. Yes, I don't think that you need to start saying hi-da-lee-ho, but I do think that this is a very like. That's's interesting. He had a great way of wrapping this up in a nice boat that that's.

Speaker 3: 43:29

That's very, very interesting it you know it's funny that you went there right then, because the observation I was gonna make like a minute ago but that's like seven thoughts ago, as you all know, um, but is it? But no, but a minute ago is that this show does what ted lasso the character and ted lasso the show do, which is to remember that everyone matters. They may not be central to our storytelling and we're not going to give them equal time on screen, but fundamentally, this guy exists. He exists in the world. He's fallen in love At some point. He ran around town and got a karaoke machine for a party. He's throwing himself on behalf of his co-workers so we'll see how that goes. Like he has a whole life that we are splashing down into and just acknowledging that is so powerful.

Speaker 4: 44:32

Um yes, it goes back to your first thing about ted lasso coach, our first episode. No, no snow. So ted would say what's a small interaction? So Geller is kind, he says I'm going to take that, I'm going to use that.

Speaker 5: 44:49

And then Geller goes, okay, so this is what I love so much about it is that he is like Ted Lasso going to be kind, but also like a real human being does not give a shit.

Speaker 2: 45:02

He's not going to be cruel.

Speaker 5: 45:02

Cruel, but also he's not gonna be like oh, I would love to come to your party then no, he's like fucking okay yeah, you know what?

Speaker 3: 45:10

that's great, that's, that's a good point. Ted would have said like, well, what time did it all get started?

Speaker 4: 45:16

yeah, for for sure, for sure. Yeah, sorry, I'm playing around with the audio coach. Yeah, but no, you're absolutely right, it's it. Yeah, right, if he's highly hodling through this, he'd be like, hey, I'll join, I'll go get the peanut brittle, you know, like it's not right. It's not that Geller is checking out here now. I do rivers and streams.

Speaker 5: 45:41

That's so accurate. It's painful, that's so accurate, it's painful.

Speaker 4: 45:47

So, uh, darren says everybody's here, geller is just trying to get to wayne, who he sees across the thing. And darren says everybody here's a little bit tense. Uh, on account that I shot my partner on accident and now he's in a coma and I guess nobody has ever made a mistake in their life but me no no, that's not how you get to do this you absolutely don't get to do this.

Speaker 5: 46:09

This is part of the like, part of telling everyone that we all should be a little more forgiving is also recognizing that you don't get to tell other people to be more forgiving of your shit. That's not how it works. This is, this is fucking bullshit. You don't get to say, oh well, everybody's mad at me just because I shot somebody. Like no motherfucker, be sad, be sorry, make it up to him there is a there's a dynamic, for sure, boss.

Speaker 4: 46:36

There's a dynamic where it's like you don't want to be on the wrong, wrong team out of the gate, like at this moment. I bet geller wished he had just talked to the sergeant behind the you know what I mean where he's like, oh God, you know, because this is just brutal.

Speaker 3: 46:51

Also this guy's desperation, like so we now understand why everybody's looking at him like he dropped a turd in a punch bowl. He shot his partner. I've never been to the police academy but I've got to think that is something they strongly discourage, and so the idea that you don't get it and you're so bad at what you do that you would discuss that as if you filled out the wrong form when you made an arrest.

Speaker 3: 47:25

Yes, like you shot your partner. That's not made a mistake. You're saying, yeah, no, we're not going to throw you a party after you shot your partner.

Speaker 5: 47:38

No, that's why he had to throw it himself.

Speaker 4: 47:41

Exactly, and it gets worse. But I want to call out the actor. Dan Abramovich plays Darren.

Speaker 3: 47:47

Very funny.

Speaker 4: 47:49

I mean, this is a tough pivot. And he pulls it off. You're like, oh, the way he inhabits this character. You're like, yeah, yeah, he shot his partner. He definitely is stupid enough to accidentally shot his partner and then think, oh, oopsie, and have this sort of entitlement what's the term? He is detached from reality in a way where it's not the magnitude of the offense. Yeah, it's delusional, it's lost on him.

Speaker 3: 48:20

It's like 90% delusional because and I just, I think some I think it's hard for people who maybe are hard on themselves when everyone else is legitimately bad, because it's like I thought this anyway, like I thought I was not shit anyway, and everyone confirmed me that I'm not shit, right, right. But I would point everyone to the 5 o'clock shadow.

Speaker 4: 48:47

Yeah right, he's got a little five o'clock.

Speaker 3: 48:50

This is a guy who's been like you know, whatever his version of it is. He may not be knee deep in bourbon, but maybe he was up playing whatever video game brings him solace. But he's not doing okay, right he is delusional. It's like the Adderall talking right now. Yeah, he's a little shaken up. I would not advise that he work on his 401k right now.

Speaker 4: 49:18

So he says how can I help you? And Geller says I called about the McCullough boy dropping off some of his personal effects. And he sets down something on the counter and we see that what is in this? What is here, boss?

Speaker 5: 49:35

The only thing you could really see is the hammer.

Speaker 4: 49:38

Yeah, right, and but it's an insert. We get an insert.

Speaker 5: 49:42

They want us to see the hammer is back and that also means that after he was hit in the head with it, officer Geller decided to pick it up and make sure to bring it to Wayne, just in case.

Speaker 4: 49:54

Right. Well, yeah, it's evidence in the crime of attacking a police, assaulting a police officer. Mind if I have a word with him. He says and Darren says, no, no, I'll be my guest, and if you want to stop by later and maybe hear me lay some pitbull on them?

Speaker 3: 50:12

No, I could not imagine what he was about to say because I knew it was going to be ridiculous. I think and I'll admit this probably would have been my direction was something more like a Barry Manilow-ish corny direction. But there is something so much more painful About it being pitiful, oh my God, I just sat here and just shook my head like oh my God, you are the worst dude. You're so pathetic.

Speaker 4: 50:47

Stop by later and maybe hear, hear me some pitbull on them.

Speaker 5: 50:50

It's really rough. Also, the thing that I like most about pitbull I don't know if I could tell you a single song that pitbull has done and I I am familiar with. I know that he is an artist. I don't know what he's done, I'm not familiar with his music.

Speaker 5: 51:02

I do know that he is an artist. I don't know what he's done, I'm not familiar with his music. I do know that one time a man appeared on the TV screen at Craig's house and I said who's this? And he said I don't know how, I know, but that's Pitbull. And then we looked him up and it was in fact Pitbull. I don't know. He was like I don't know who Pitbull is either, I couldn't point him out, but he was like I know that that guy, that guy is pitbull I know that he is pitbull.

Speaker 3: 51:28

Popular culture has seeped somehow like like in a way through osmosis.

Speaker 4: 51:32

I've somehow figured there, you go so this guy, the sergeant, again barks at him, darren, and he says, yes, sarge, and, and geller walks away, but we stay on. We see geller walk out of frame and we see darren approach the sarge behind the desk, and and what does he say here, boss?

Speaker 5: 51:52

yeah, I know he's your brother, but he's my friend I lost it.

Speaker 4: 51:58

Coach, coach did lose. A coach laughed so hard, I fucking.

Speaker 3: 52:05

Not only did he shoot his partner, he shot the sergeant's like oh my god, and he's up there talking about singing some pitbull later, like it's just, oh my god, like I really did fall out, like I'm glad I have witnesses because I know people go, oh, lol, like, no, no, no, I'm serious no, no, he was like fucking.

Speaker 4: 52:25

He was like that is. That was awful. So now we get a, a shot of the bullpen area here um, a lot of, a lot of, a lot of metal desks face to face, uh, beard and ted style, uh, to to maximize room, not to maximize camaraderie and we see Geller approach Wayne. There's nobody currently seated at the desk that Wayne is handcuffed, chained to, so to speak, and Geller walks.

Speaker 5: 53:05

We hear over the top the voice of Darren as Geller's walking's walking, saying at some point you're gonna have to forgive me which is also not a thing that you say, also not a thing that you can insist not immediately, not at all. No and also it kind of never. What you could say is I have done everything that I know how to do in order to repair this relationship and you still are unable to forgive me, so I'm giving up. You can say that that's totally fine, but you can't say like, well, I apologize once, so now you have to forgive me. No, no, I don't no, I don't.

Speaker 4: 53:30

Well, maybe if he sings pitbull, well enough, he will.

Speaker 3: 53:32

That is impossible, I think that okay I believe it was uh, lay some pitbull on them. I don't want to, you know, take away from what the man plans to do it's.

Speaker 5: 53:44

It's so bad I don't.

Speaker 4: 53:46

So that was 10 seconds or 12 seconds of screen time, 15 seconds, whatever, but we have a sense about this police force now. We have a sense about about the, the vibe in the room, the. You know there's some division, it's, but it's also kind of bustly and busy. Uh, it's really interesting. And then Geller sits down here and, coach, we get a shot over Wayne's shoulder with Geller sitting at the desk and he hikes up his trousers before he sits. And what does he say here? Coach, walk us through this.

Speaker 3: 54:17

So Florida police have agreed to transport you back to Brockton. If you'll cooperate, I'll be waiting on you, help you sort things. I know you didn't kidnap the girl and we get a shot of Wayne. There ain't nothing there for me, no more back home. That's what Wayne says.

Speaker 4: 54:37

Yeah, wayne says there ain't nothing back there for me, and Gellar says what, coach? What about Del?

Speaker 3: 54:43

She'll be there, won't she?

Speaker 3: 54:46

And Wayne sort of just takes a beat, exhales this side of a sigh and turns his head and looks down at the desk. But it doesn't look like that was the most promising moment of his day. And then you know, her life is also going to demand some restructuring. I love about geller. He says these things when he says these things in an official sounding way, but he communicates a lot. I think it's. It's really impressive. I've never seen anybody be this effective and it is a very specific compliment to the writers but I've never seen a character written so emotionally effective using bureaucratic language. Yes, does that make sense?

Speaker 5: 55:33

No, absolutely it does. It's the data effect almost when he says things you're like oh fuck that makes sense.

Speaker 3: 55:42

Yeah, that's right, it's a great comparison.

Speaker 4: 55:44

Well, yeah, and corporate speak is designed to take emotion out of it and humanity out of it. So her life is going to demand some restructuring, but somehow, coming out of Geller's mouth, there's a kindness to it. And what else did he say here, coach?

Speaker 3: 56:04

Might be nice to do it together. No, In other words, join civilization. Son, I know you might be sitting there thinking you're going to go the Conan route, but join civilization. Civilization is unnatural. We've heard that before.

Speaker 3: 56:21

That's a Wayne's response Civilization is unnatural. What's that? It is sort of an odd response given context, given who Wayne is. So it's a little confused, perplexed. What's that? I don't need it, any of it, anybody. And he's out. That's his declaration. That's it. This game sucks. And I'm not playing Geller. You know, wayne, everyone I've met along the way on this little journey to find you, your principal, orlando, that nurse that looked after your father. For someone who considers himself a loner, you've affected a lot of people for the better, you know, and no matter how bad life treated you or betrayed you, from where I'm sitting, everything you do, it's done out of love. Pause it for a second man. You know me well enough to know that I was like.

Speaker 4: 57:23

God damn it go it but it's true, top of the of the coaching pyramid that's it.

Speaker 3: 57:30

Like I. I'm such a believer and and I think when we talk about wayne's code, that like he found a way of expressing it that works for me, because I just that's Wayne. Like he, like he could fuck up 95% of the people he comes across in a day, but he's not gonna. He's not going to rob you, he's not going to do any of that shit. But if he should see you bully somebody, well, this was a very bad day for you to have done that and there's just something really beautiful about it. There's just something absolutely gorgeous about it. Like I get it's bloody, it's gross, some of the seeds have had me peeking through my fingers, but it's, it's, it's cool. Like he's. It's funny. Maybe he's a revision on what I was saying earlier.

Speaker 3: 58:22

We've had all these anti-heroes and then he's like the anti-anti-hero. He is actually all of the values we claimed, we believed in. He is the Lone Ranger and actually, now that I say that, I started out by saying the whole thing felt like a Western in the first place, but he actually lives by that kind of thing. He's this. You know, it's like when you had the A-Team or whatever, but he's this very like real-world version of it, of like he's like no. What do you mean? You're taking advantage of these workers. Not on my motherfucking watch, you're not.

Speaker 5: 59:01

Yeah, I think. So number number one. Everything you just said, I loved the scene also. I do also love the way that um, it's not just that it's bureaucratic speak that geller is using. There is, uh, an emotional detachment, that it's set in a way that's very emotionally flat, but that is so that it could be emotionally effective. I think that there are a lot of times where, when you try to sell the emotion by showing it real big, it becomes melodramatic and it's not what you're going for. And what he is doing is saying like, yeah, you're going to need to figure out your fucking life. It's almost, not almost. It does contrast with the way that Tommy Cole and Orlando were both saying like, well, obviously he needs to come home, that's what he needs to do. And then Tommy Cole was like, oh, except he doesn't have a house and can't go to school and his dad's dead. Like what Geller is saying is, because you are going back, we can figure out how to fix your life. Moving forward Rather than this is, of course, what you have to do.

Speaker 5: 1:00:05

Um, I think the important thing about wayne is he is upholding a lot of societal norms in a way that is societally unaccepted but actually reflects what is happening. So we would say you can't hit a kid in the face with a trumpet. And he would say the kid who I hit with a trumpet was beating the shit out of somebody else. Why were you allowing him to beat the shit out of somebody else Like, why are we not getting upset about that? What are the ways in which we think of violence as being normalized and regular? And when we do it in a way where a father is yelling at his son in a bowling alley because he's being a wuss, we yelling at his son at a bowling alley because he's being a wuss, we think that's fine. But if you were to, you know, hit him in the face with a hammer because of that. Now, all of a sudden, I'm the asshole I'm the bad guy.

Speaker 3: 1:00:52

Oh, now I'm the bad guy that's what.

Speaker 4: 1:00:54

That's what he was saying. Yeah, yeah, no, no. And this is why, you know, we, we talk about how, how much we've all been let down by, uh, society, and I've alluded to this many times when we talk about hockey and how I like the social control on the ice, but you know what, humans always find ways to navigate the gray areas, but but somehow we don't, we don't standardize it. In a way, it's meant, it's, we're supposed to believe that the government or the law enforcement agencies, you know, will protect you. But but then you get these, these, these.

Speaker 4: 1:01:29

You know the moments where you're like, oh, never a cop, when you need one kind of thing, um, and, and then it's very subjective, like the family that I saw got in the accident the other day, and when I said the police are on their way, I, I don't know for sure, but I had the sense that that was not like that made them nervous, and so everybody has has sort of a different, differing experience. But we don't, you know, and something some you know, when you watch the Godfather or whatever, you're like okay, I have a problem. No, one's going to the law can't help me, so you go to the mafia, you go to the you know now you, and then there's an exchange of favors or whatever, and it's you know, I see it all the time and there are people who thrive in the gray areas. There's a guy in my town who they call him like the unofficial mayor of the town. We don't have a mayor, we have selectmen in my town and it's just the selectmen feel sometimes like it's like, oh, you know, they're just this, you know bunch of they don't understand whatever I don't know.

Speaker 4: 1:02:24

And this one guy it's like if you're gonna rent something in the town, you call him and he knows everybody. And he's like, hey, you know, do this kid a favor. He's you know, he's a good, he's like that guy if he's not connected, he's not a mafioso or anything, but he's been around so and it's just another way of him you know whatever, I guess for him he gets control out of it or some sort of knowledge of what's happening in the town. But it's like another form of this gray area where it's like, oh well, I'll just go to a realtor and do that.

Speaker 4: 1:02:54

It's like, well, you can't. You can, but you won't get. You know what you want if you use the prescribed methodology. You have to actually go into the step into the gray areas a little bit. So this is where wayne navigates, and he doesn't navigate it from a perspective of malice or or or indecency, or, you know, like personal vendetta. He, he is, he is a sheriff in these areas and, uh, for better, for worse, the justice porn of it makes his code appealing. And now Geller is noticing he's a kid.

Speaker 3: 1:03:31

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:03:32

Right yeah, he's still a kid and he has no one to guide him, Despite what he's telling. He says you know, everything you've done is done out of love, Despite what you're telling yourself right now. Last I checked, love is civilization. Coach, I was going to pause after that to give you the floor and just turn my mic off for half an hour.

Speaker 3: 1:03:53

But I believe and I may be messing this up I feel pretty confident. I believe Margaret Mead I may have mentioned it before was asked about the beginning of civilization and referenced finding a skeleton with a healed femur and saying that for a person to have a healed femur means that they were cared after by others. It just necessarily means that, and to her know that signaled the beginning of civilization and I think yes to that and I think we wander into.

Speaker 3: 1:04:35

I think last time we made the, the civilization being the ideal and society being sort of like how we all navigate, being around each other. I think we veer toward society in ways that are not just unkind and arguably immoral and things that we might describe, but also just fundamentally unwise. And I thought about the point you made last time, coach, about me saying like, hey, it's less efficient to be sexist, don't do it. And I get why you're saying no, we should be doing the right things because they're the right things, and I tend to agree with you but where I find myself tempted to pull out my hair. Obviously, anyone who's seen me knows I have never pulled out my hair. No, I'm kidding, but, um, I have, I have, I have locks literally down to my butt, for those of you who don't know what that joke was about. But anyway, um, but what makes me want to pull my hair out is when we do the in my opinion, selfish or evil or whatever word we're going to put on a thing and it works against us.

Speaker 3: 1:05:51

If you tell me you stole a pie because you were hungry, I wouldn't say it's right, but I get that and I can figure out like, okay, so what we need to do is satisfy your hunger. What I find amazing is the number of people I get the sense steal a pie to throw it in the gutter on their way across the street, to steal another pie and you go. Well, what the fuck are you doing? Love is civilization. I think that's different than society and I think, yes, love is civilization. Love is when love is. After nine 11, when store owners were running extension cords out of their places of business to just let people charge their phones so that they could figure out how they were going to get to fam. That's civilization and we can. We do that sometimes, but we don't always do that.

Speaker 4: 1:06:47

No, no, it is rare. So, yeah, we continue here and only 28 minutes.

Speaker 4: 1:06:57

In your face uh gillard leans in, taps the conan, the barbarian comic on the uh on the desk. He says you know, you're not the barbarian. You imagine yourself to be young man. Um, and it's interesting because no one's really taking the time to try to understand Wayne, to which Wayne, right right away, goes back to a line he and Dell are. You know, it's like, it's like the, it's like the, the edifying response of a mass hole. Which is what, boss? You don't know me? Yeah, you don't fucking know me, right, and and because that is, and nor do I want to be known by you especially. But you know, I don't know you and you're just guessing, fool, you know.

Speaker 1: 1:07:54

Well even if you're right, he's not going to let him know.

Speaker 3: 1:07:59

Yeah, he's not going to let him know and I'm glad you said that part about even if you're right him know. Yeah, he's not gonna let him know it. And and I'm glad you said that part there about even if you're right, because there are a couple of things at play in this scene that I think have to be called out to fully appreciate it. And one is for the boy slash man who chooses the conan role from where wayne is right, like reggie might be a different discussion. I'm talking about this kid and in some ways, coach, you've teased me and you're spot on right that like, really, at the end of the day, I was a sweet kid, I like to have fun, I didn't really want to fight, but it was clear like them's ain't the rules around here? Right, right and Right, right and so that.

Speaker 3: 1:08:44

But what Wayne says is I don't give a fuck about anybody, I don't love anybody. Fuck all of you. What I believe he's expressing is I am not loved by any of you and I'm pretty sure I'm unlovable, right. And so when he says you don't know me, it's you don't know me, you don't see me, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about, but it's also I don't want you to know me on some level, because you too, if you see me too clearly, will understand that I'm not lovable.

Speaker 2: 1:09:29

There's a lot of shame in here. That's interesting yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:09:33

Am I possibly projecting me? It feels right to me. His mother doesn't love him. Del left. His father died on him after the best description was complicated. You know what I mean? Who loves this dude? Even where they've stopped along the way, people may have fallen in love with Del a bit. Who the fuck fell in love with Wayne? They did, but not. You know what I'm saying. That sort of initial like oh, I hope that kid comes back through town. I can see several people saying that about Del. I think he feels unlovable. I think he feels unlovable. I think he feels like no one will ever care about me. So why don't we just stop this?

Speaker 4: 1:10:14

Yeah, the world has made it clear to him that he is not part of the world and he has no one. He's, he's isolated. Um, the boss, for what it's worth, this is a. This is like the first foray into. Like the, the.

Speaker 4: 1:10:27

This is like the first foray into like the character of Geller is like early days help economy to me, like that he is willing and able to try when other people wouldn't, and so is the principle, and so it's like.

Speaker 4: 1:10:48

All these people are like okay, we, we have a inner knowing about this kid, that some injustice is taking place and you know that that, whether you know, whether it's the, the, he deserves a second chance or whatever. Even sitting here today, geller is processing him, for lack of a better term, but he's not doing it like a bureaucratic stooge, he's not an apparatchik. There is care and understanding and patience, and even in the moment when Wayne throws him a curveball, he has the veteran wiles enough to sort of go okay, like, absorb it and not react in a negative way like oh, oh, you are a little shit. Okay, well, fuck, you, enjoy jail. Like he's not that and so that's it's like. For me, it's like the first sort of uh, step of of you know what I? What I like to think of is like people reaching out to guide people who have otherwise been unguided.

Speaker 5: 1:11:51

So anyway, no, but that is why I dislike it.

Speaker 5: 1:12:02

What you just said is exactly what makes me helping others and the toll that it takes on the helper and the ways that that could then negatively impact the person being helped. What you just said the fact that it required that what we're seeing from him is a personal notice of Wayne that he took that he feels like he should be helping Wayne and that's why he does it. That is exactly what I want taken out of the system. I don't want it to be. You feel like you should help this kid because he deserves a chance, because you think that there's some reason that he it needs to be shown an additional amount of care or love or guidance or whatever else. When you set it up that the person doing the helping needs to be emotionally invested in it in order for it to succeed, it will eventually fail Because there is not a person alive who can give that much without it taking a toll on them.

Speaker 5: 1:13:02

What I need for it to be is bureaucratic. I need it to be. I don't care what you did to get yourself in this position. I don't care why, how much you fucked up in the past, that is unimportant to me. What matters is you need housing assistance, food assistance, straight up money, and my job pays me to give it to you. So I'm going to do it because that is in both of our best interests. That is in the interest for both of us. That is the best outcome.

Speaker 4: 1:13:30

I don't care, that's horrifying to me. But okay, yeah, I get it. You're right, you can't. I know you say those burnout or things like that associated with and it shouldn't be on a step by, you know, case by case basis, like a human decides who should get a second chance and who shouldn't. I'm not advocating for that. I'm just saying that this is a form of guidance in an unguided youth, and he makes himself available in that moment where he doesn't have to. And so in a better world, in an ideal health economy, it would be like, yes, everybody has access to that at all times. But this is like the first, this is like why it's notable to me, because it's a, it's a, it's a human choice that I really like. And you can say, oh, if we're going to standardize it and scale it, this is not sustainable.

Speaker 4: 1:14:19

But I'm not talking about that. I'm not talking about what it looks like as a, as a broad governmental entity. I'm talking about the net result on the, on the person who is feeling alone at the time and that there, that there is a Avenue, even if he, like I, have a really hard time believing that Wayne would view this with. He might view it with skepticism. He might've learned that like this guy's bullshit and he must have an agenda. I'm not I'm not disputing that he may feel all those things, but I doubt very much he'll come out of this interaction thinking, you know, like something negative happened in this interaction with Geller and we got to keep going on. What? Because I want to play the thing that Geller says but go ahead, yeah, go ahead Before you do, cause I think I find this interesting on two levels.

Speaker 3: 1:15:13

So two thoughts came to me and I'd love to get your reactions to it, both of you.

Speaker 3: 1:15:17

So when you were having the first exchange, the phrase that came to mind is coach wants us to be the kind of people who step into the gap and boss coach wants us to be the kind of people who step into the gap and boss doesn't want there to be a gap. Exactly that's boss's answer yes, there should be no gap. Now what I would say about that because I was like what's, and in an interesting way, on this particular point, boss, in my opinion, is presenting the more idealistic version, yeah, one element of where you usually land, that now it's your boss saying come on up out of that pit where people have to burn themselves out, helping people like fuck that we can build this more effectively, so we don't have to do that. And coach kind of going oh man, I can't even. I can't even fathom the stage from here. I can fathom like just this first step where we actually don't just like bludgeon each other in this pit, like let's just help one another, stay safe in the pit, like the pit exists, let's be good about.

Speaker 4: 1:16:38

I just I just talked about how the gray area it's, humans don't navigate well inside of it. So, yeah, like, but I always think there is one, and maybe, like with the advent of you know, you know, quantum computing and things like that, you could have a system where there is a you know sort of a AI version of the help economy that's available at all. You know, on that level, but I still think, even that there's always that weird gray area. But, but let's keep going.

Speaker 5: 1:17:05

I want to make a little progress Because I, just before we move on, because this is my career and very, very important to me, I very much understand what you're saying about wanting somebody to care and wanting somebody believing that Wayne would not come away with this from a negative, with a negative connotation of this experience. What I need everybody who might be listening to me for some strange reason to understand is that charity is one of the most corruptible industries in the country. It is so easy for it to become, and I'm not just talking about embezzlement and people stealing money from poor people.

Speaker 3: 1:17:46

I'm talking about how Well, that's what I'm talking about.

Speaker 5: 1:17:58

I am saying that if you do not have, if you go into it believing that I am doing what is right, because I am following these rules or whatever else, you are putting stipulations on the care that you were giving to other people. It is the same way that a lot of people won't go to charities because they say we'll give you a house but you need to attend church on Sunday. This is the corruption that I'm talking about. When you say you need to become a good person, by doing it the way that I am saying it, it becomes so fucked so quickly. When I say we need to take all emotion out of it, it isn't because I'm just an asshole. It's because it really is in the best interest of everybody who needs help and who gives help. Like we are right now in the nonprofit world having this entire conversation about centering our work on serving the people who need help, not having them say like oh, you guys are so fucking great.

Speaker 5: 1:18:45

Oh, you gave me this big block of cheese and now I'm gonna eat for a week, you're fucking not gonna eat that for a week, you need to be able to pick the food that you are going to eat and that you are going to make. So, like I, I absolutely understand where you're coming from. You want people to care about each other more, and I don't have a problem with that. I have a problem with anybody else's basic human necessities being met because somebody cares that it, it. I promise you I will talk all fucking day long about it.

Speaker 3: 1:19:14

It fucks everything up. It makes sense. What you're saying makes a lot of sense, I would. I would add to it, and part of why we talk about burnout and these things this way, I think, is, as long as we're where we are essentially with humans, there are those who make it their business to steal pies and throw them in the gutter, and so that means that those of us who are actually trying to feed the hungry also have to deal with their bullshit like part of why helping people can seem so endless, like bottomless. I was working with youth in New Haven when I finished up college and it became clear to me this work means a lot to me and I absolutely 100% cannot do this.

Speaker 3: 1:20:08

Yes yes, yes, like I was hurt, like I can tell you reports I heard or choices kids made, that like hurt, like they hurt, like oh my God, and I'm, like I'm supposed to do this for years and years and decades of my fucking life, like I'll be dead. I will literally. I remember deciding I cannot do this. I will try to be helpful for kids, I'll try to find another way, but this idea of like essentially working with at-risk youth, like no, I took it way too personally and um, I think. And then you have other people who are like hey, have lots of babies and fuck free lunch, and I feel like the fact that we're demand the demand is that we step into that gap I think lends itself to the burnout and lends itself to people like you looking around going there's a lot of fucking messes to be cleaned up. In part, they're there to be cleaned up because there are people who leverage I say this about the do-gooders of our society all the time your decency is leveraged against you. I tell Daphne that all the time.

Speaker 3: 1:21:21

Yes, I say your decency is leveraged against you, Because I know if we play a game of chicken and there's a hungry kid there, you will blink. I will watch that motherfucker die right there. I don't give a fuck. It's like what do you do with that?

Speaker 4: 1:21:44

Wait, you're not saying you would do that.

Speaker 3: 1:21:46

No, I'm saying the person who's on the other side of that discussion. I'm saying the other person who's on the on the other side of that discussion, I'm saying I realize, I think I see when my, my, my decency is being leveraged and I think I'm pretty good. Okay, I'm gonna go a little political and I'm gonna allow you to go into the second minute of the show. So so in the united states right now, for those of you who are unaware of the show. So in the United States right now, for those of you who are unaware of the political situation here. First of all, I'm so jealous of you I don't even have the words. Second of all, there's all this about abortion right now. Abortion rights where there'll be a national ban of abortion.

Speaker 3: 1:22:29

There's a lot around this issue and in some of the zeal to you know, life begins at conception and blah, blah, blah. It's played out in a way where now there are people who probably just tipped away, bible in hand, about abortion and supported all this anti-choice, anti-women's rights legislation, but who then realized but wait, I can't get my IVF. Yep, oh no, wait a minute. This was to deal with all the city whores who are out there having fun sex. This wasn't supposed to mess with my life. And so now people are like what are we going to do about ivf now? Here's why orlando bishop can't be a politics, because if I was in charge of the democrats, I'd be like because he, because he used the term city whores.

Speaker 3: 1:23:26

No, hey, I was in character for that, oh yeah, yeah yeah, but because my reaction to that on the left is we're not gonna do a god damn thing about IVF. That's what we're gonna do. Fuck you, brittany. No, if you wanna be like that, if you wanna be anti-science and life begins at conception well, guess what? All them fucking eggs you got in storage are going to stay the fuck in storage. We're not playing this game with you. Either we're going to do science or we're going to do bullshit. Which one do you want to do? But that's not what's going to happen, because people on the left are going to say well, we can't keep so-and-so from there, and they'll blink. They will blink, they'll have carve-outs for this and carve-outs for that, and Brittany will get to keep shaming and have her IVF baby Watch. Remember, I told you that's exactly how this is going to play out. Yep, I would say no fucking deal. Either this is going to be medicine or not. Let me know what y'all decide.

Speaker 4: 1:24:37

I lost the train there. I don't know where the thread was with this Coach, that's fine. I love everything you said and you may very well be right. Yeah, I, yeah, I don't know where, where, where, we left off with that, but Well, I'm saying the the, the decency being leveraged. I'm saying like yes and and and what you're describing.

Speaker 3: 1:25:03

I think it leaves too much room for the person who not only doesn't give a fuck about Wayne, but who sees in Wayne labor.

Speaker 4: 1:25:13

Oh, listen, yeah, Okay, a profit that's not even neutral.

Speaker 3: 1:25:19

That's not. I don't give a fuck about you. That is. I want you in prison. That is my. My life goes better for that.

Speaker 4: 1:25:26

What I'm reacting to is Geller saying I'll be there when you get there, yeah, and so for me that does not have the musk of abuse or strings attached.

Speaker 2: 1:25:34

Not at all. So what I like is the help economy.

Speaker 4: 1:25:37

The basis of the help economy is help is there if you want it. If Wayne chooses never, ever, ever to take anybody up on helping, then Wayne doesn't have to do shit. That's fine, that's his right. But if Wayne right, then wayne doesn't have to do. That's fine, that's his right. But if wayne is a kid from a broken home and it goes, you know what? I don't know how to fill out my tax form. I don't know how to. I would love to have an analysis of my genetic code to see if I am cellularly deficient and that it's all there for him if he wants it. That's that is the goal of the of of the help economy, that help is there for those that want it. Because that's what breaks my heart is people that are trying to better themselves. And you know, I, I, I, I am, I am. My life is screeching to a halt over um, a washing machine and I have resources, right, no, I get, yeah no, so what does everybody else?

Speaker 4: 1:26:30

do you know like so anyway, um, uh, geller listens to to, uh, you know, uh, you know sort of what, where wayne is coming from, you don't know me and he takes a long sigh and he thinks and he pats his legs and there's just this beat of the two of them sitting there and then we get, um, you know, there's this, there's this, this, um, like it seems like geller to me is making a decision how did you guys get that thing? Like he doesn't start talking yet. But we pull back and we get a two shot of them it was one and one and one, you know, in frame and now we sort of pull back and we notice that like there's a little bit job, sort of putting them in a little corner by themselves, somehow, right, so it's like just the two of them in this moment and Geller's patting his, his thighs and and what happens next is coaching, coaching, boss, have come to know me so well. I deeply resent it and they will often call me on my shortcomings, of which I have many big things. That's a driving, motivating force for me is trying to get all of the friends we've made out there, all of the relationships, all of the buttercups, uh, all of the uh, people who have come into our lives. Uh, thanks to this podcast.

Speaker 4: 1:28:22

I I have a core value of wanting to share beautiful art, and so one of the big moments for Ted Lasso was me going. We've got to talk about this. This needs to be a conversation. It can't just be a show. It also has to be people who are affected by this talking about it, and Coach and Boss have both, off-air, rightly pointed out that I love turning people on to beautiful moments or beautiful shows or things they may have missed.

Speaker 4: 1:28:54

How many people listening to this right now had ever heard of Wayne, much less watched it? And and now you have what I think, whether you listen to it through this podcast or whether you actually went and watched it yourself, you now have another sort of point of view, another artistic perspective in your life. What I sort of get frustrated by sometimes is that a lot of the mainstream awards things that happen I don't put a lot of stock in, but unfortunately, a lot of other people do happened I don't put a lot of stock in, but unfortunately a lot of other people do miss out on actors like steven karen, who plays sergeant geller and you know it wasn't like he was in the emmy running for for this character and he should be um. He should have been um it. It is unbelievable what he does throughout this show, but also in this moment, coach.

Speaker 3: 1:29:54

Yeah, and look, I think sometimes a lot of things can be this way. You can be, so those who are great at things can make them seem incredibly easy, right? So if you've ever, you know, watched a basketball game and game and thought, oh my god, how could he miss that shot? Like, I mean very easily, like most of us will miss that fucking shot, like all the time, right, and the acting here is so effective and so subtle, I think it's easy to miss all the work that's being done. He matches, he's trying to connect, and wayne is saying, no, I will not connect with you. Hey, let's connect, man. Yeah, I'll help you. When you get back, we're gonna connect, right. Yeah, when you come back, I'll be there waiting for you so we can connect. Yeah, no, yeah, nobody loves me, you don't know me. Fuck off, sir, basically. And then he matches to a large degree. He matches wayne's posture and he faces away at the exact same angle. They're like at corners, if you think of it, almost like if that's a square or, at least you know, quadrilateral.

Speaker 3: 1:31:01

Yeah oh, yeah, rectilinear baby, come on, uh, but, but that you know he's like all right, I'll match you down, I'll stop trying to connect with you, but let me tell you something. Ok, are we good? All right, I'm not. I'm not going to help you and I'm not going to show that I care. I just want to tell you a story. Yeah, and so when we talk about intentions and and scenes, his intention is to save this kid from becoming the barbarian and he, at this moment, he'll try anything at his disposal to prevent that. And if it means backing off, looking away, not trying to look you in your eyes and telling you a story, then I'll try that next. And it's really, it's a really beautiful acting. I mean, it's really very subtle and nuanced.

Speaker 4: 1:31:59

It really. This is a, this is a, this is a pro's pro. And you know you don't get many, many soliloquies like this. You don't get many speeches, you don't get many chances as a professional actor to choose scenery like this.

Speaker 4: 1:32:14

And I say that in like that's the negative terminology for it, but like he is how many? When you become an actor whether or not there's a question about whether you're born an actor or you become an actor or whatever you know you become an actor or whatever but he. But when this is a passion for you and you get to sink your teeth into a entrance like this, into a set of dialogue like this, it is glorious and, um, you know, it's like this is just. This, is just him paying homage to eons of of bards, you know, going town to town and doing the same thing and being able to move people and in inside of the role. This is exactly what coach is alluding to is.

Speaker 4: 1:33:00

He has tried a couple of different things and they have fallen flat. So he's like hey, the other day, when we were talking and I was, I was kind of raw and I didn't want to jump in Coach kept saying tool bag. When we were talking and I was kind of raw and I didn't want to jump in, coach kept saying tool bag and I was like do you have a bag, like a bag for tools? I was like oh, is that? I thought it was toolbox, but I was like.

Speaker 4: 1:33:19

It was really funny when he kept saying tool bag, because that was something people used to call people when I was growing up. Anyway, have you ever heard that Mm-mm?

Speaker 3: 1:33:31

It makes sense not to say it like you're not.

Speaker 4: 1:33:32

You're not just a tool, you're the entire bag of tool, yeah, tool, um, but this is a. This is a beautiful thing, and running the risk of of, uh, cease and desist, I'm going to just play it so people can hear it, because us reading it will not do it any, any justice at all whatsoever. So this is Geller's last hurrah pitch to Wayne.

Speaker 1: 1:33:56

You know, when I was 11 years old, my oldest sister ran away from home. I remember it was summer, hot as hell too, which made my parents fight a little louder and meaner than normal One Sunday morning, I guess to beat the heat. My old man turns to us and says we're going to Skate Barn, which I knew to be a family roller skating establishment out near Randolph. So while my remaining sister and myself taught each other how to skate, my parents sat back at the half wall, not speaking a word to each other, drinking lemonade and smoking cigarettes and faking a weak smile and a thumbs up every time we would roll by. And when we got tired we wobbled in, came off the floor onto the carpet and we found that my father had laced up a pair of skates. He looks at my mother and says I'm going to take a turn.

Speaker 1: 1:35:06

My father was a hard man, wayne. He's nobody you would ever describe as graceful. My sister and I stood at that half wall. We watched as he just sort of drifted slowly back on the hardwood. He gave us a nod like that. He put his head over his right shoulder, got into a crouch, just enough to push off, like it was in some sort of goddamn dream. We watched our father just explode with pure speed out into the current of all those other skaters, just weaving effortlessly in and out of everybody. And then we watched him accelerate into the far corner. He dropped his shoulder and his legs, just crossing over and through each other like a racehorse like that, seemed to know where everybody was, and his hands were so beautiful, just brushing the air like that. Here's this man who tore through life like a wrecking ball. My pop Turned Fred Astaire, just in tune with everything, and then my father turned around and doubled his speed and came up to that gap in the wall and stepped up onto the carpet, breathing hard, but I swear to God, not that hard.

Speaker 1: 1:37:03

That night our mother took us into the bathroom and she turned on both sinks to make a wall of sound and she told us the marriage was over. And years later I found out that before and between the wars, my old man was a competitive skate dancer, a different man, a different man, a man who one day stopped lacing up those skates and succumbed to a world and a family and a life he may have never wanted to begin with. What did your dad do after? What did she die to? After the last I heard he was selling incense on the beach somewhere. I guess what I'm trying to tell you, wayne, is you haven't laced your skates up yet. Maybe this madness will continue, and maybe not. And who knows this sweet Delilah, maybe she's your pair of skates, huh?

Speaker 3: 1:38:32

That's a hell of a speech, man. That's a hell of a speech, it's really good.

Speaker 3: 1:38:38

The first time through I was legit choked up, oh for sure it made me think of like a number of things my own life, my father, my I mean just and and and God. So many things here. I think sometimes it's said in a way that men in general, maybe some men in a very specific way, can't hear. But I've heard so many women point out the negative impact of the patriarchy on boys and men and I think sometimes it can feel, I don't know, it comes out in moments of conflict. So I think that it's like not the time to be able to sort of do this kind of quiet processing of it. But I remember when malls were a thing and I'd go to the mall with Daphne and I remember watching these men and I had a whole bit I did about the mall being the hall of broken men and you just see these guys walking around, maybe carrying somebody's purse or whatever, and he's had this glazed over, look in their eyes.

Speaker 3: 1:39:44

I remember thinking I never want to be him. I don't want this thing, this life thing, to take that out of me like that. Now there are choices I've made that have kept the light on and threatening not keep the lights on. So I'll be honest about that. But somewhere this guy didn't just put down his skates, as Gellar's pointing out, like his father put down himself. Like he, he stopped being who he was and eventually that's going to come out. And how you treat your wife and how you treat your kids and how you smoke cigarettes and drink lemonade and pretend to be kind of half happy to watch them go around the rink, um, yeah, so I think in the context of that speech or you know the conversation earlier we, when we were talking about the opening scene with that dad yelling at his kid it's a lot of washing machines. I'm sure gala's dad grabbed many a belt and tried to fix many a washing machine.

Speaker 5: 1:41:02

Yeah, yeah. I love that you immediately knew to go into the patriarchal effects of this. Basically, usually a woman will pose something to the effect of. Dudes will say you need to be a six foot tall, muscle bound Chad with a great head of hair in order to get women and women are like we are all about Jack Black, we are all about Stanley Tucci, we are all about, like, all these men that don't fit that very traditional patriarchal idea of masculinity.

Speaker 5: 1:41:32

And then inevitably in the comments a dude will say oh well, if jack black weren't famous and rich, you wouldn't think he's hot. What would he have if he weren't rich and famous? And I was like, oh, do you mean that he would be extremely funny and a talented musician and, uh, actor who seems like he genuinely cares about people? If you're willing to believe internet stories like that's who you've got, then Then you've got this very funny, cool guy to hang out with. And then they're like, oh, what if he didn't have? It always comes down to like it used to be that the thing that men had was the method by which women survive.

Speaker 5: 1:42:07

We will give you the money by which you will stay alive, and that's the thing that we're able to offer you. And now women are saying, actually, we do want more than that. And there are a lot of dudes that are like oh, so I'm supposed to be smart or funny or kind or interesting or interested in you, or driven or ambitious or talented. Oh, I have to be the. Yes, you have to be one of those things. You have to be one. You don't.

Speaker 5: 1:42:30

It'd be better if you were a combination of them. You don't need to be super attractive, which, by the way, women are allowed to like. We're allowed to be into guys that we consider hot. Sorry, if that hurts your feelings, damn it, damn it. It would be better if you were more than one of those things.

Speaker 5: 1:42:45

But, yes, you need to offer the world something. You need to be one of the things that I mentioned. You need to have a reason that other people want to hang out with and be around you, and they get pissed off at feminists about that, because if feminists hadn't taken away that one thing that you had to do, which was be the breadwinner, if you hadn't taken that away, that's all I would need to offer. Actually, it was patriarchy that said you shouldn't be interested in figure skating, that you shouldn't be a competitive dancer, that those things that you might have wanted to do are no longer acceptable, because that's not what men do. Men don't do that shit. Also, I love that he mentioned in the front of stare because at some point not so long ago, like one of the most attractive men in the country, the guy that was like everybody went to the movies to see was a fucking dancer, was was like tap dancing.

Speaker 1: 1:43:38

That was a thing that we decided a masculine dude, a heartthrob would be doing.

Speaker 5: 1:43:43

so this breakdown like the, the men who are lonely, this epidemic of male loneliness which we never paid attention to when it was women, that's fucking fine. That isn't because feminism said men are unimportant. It is because patriarchy said men have to be this very specific thing and you are not allowed to want to experience anything outside that. So again, this is-.

Speaker 4: 1:44:09

No, it's very true, man. We've talked about this for so many years we. I remember, coach, talking about how people gave him stink eye. Other guys gave him stink I would. He tried to order a blue hawaiian yes because that's not a man's drink.

Speaker 4: 1:44:20

So it's all of that. Um, before I forget because I will I just want to say this is 100% factual. And if there's any question about Jack Black, I don't want to go into too many details, but have I mentioned this before on this podcast, I think I know what you're talking about, but I don't know if it's been mentioned on the podcast. Coach, and I have a dear friend whose whose child was uh got cancer and it was really bad, really bad.

Speaker 3: 1:44:58

Yeah, this I know the story. I don't think you've told on here. You may have, I don't think so I.

Speaker 4: 1:45:02

I just want to say like, in case you know, this is the type of story that should be told and I don't want to make it, I don't. I don't want to say names or people or whatever, but I'm telling you, this child was in dire straits and my friend was losing his mind and I remember this. One night they didn't know whether yeah, they didn't know whether this little, this, the, the child, was going to make it Through this. One night the chemo was tearing the little one apart and it so happened that the child's favorite actor was Jack Black and my friend I didn't know the severity of, we knew it was bad, we didn't know how bad and he reached out to me and he said I need a favor, can you get in touch with Jack Black? And I have a friend who knows Jack Black and I immediately called my friend and my friend immediately called Jack Black and in 25 minutes or 30 minutes, jack Black himself had stopped whatever the fuck he was doing on this planet Earth and made a personal video for this child.

Speaker 4: 1:46:20

God damn, this is back to back episodes of this show where I cannot fucking hold it together. This is horrifying, but this is a truth and Jack Black made the most beautiful, heartfelt this show where I cannot fucking hold it together. This is horrifying, but this is a truth. And and jack black made the most beautiful heartfelt video, one-on-one. Yeah, like for that, for for this child, and the child made it through that night and the child is now cancer free.

Speaker 4: 1:46:43

Yeah living his happy kid life yeah, but our friend credits that moment, and so I don't know what else is out. I don't know what's on the internet about Jack Black. I don't know what's out there, but I will tell you he did this, he did this and I was part of it. So it's not hearsay, it's not whatever. This is a fact and it's a big deal. So I just don't want to, you know, just whistle past the graveyard. That's a terrible term for that. Jesus christ, I don't want to, I don't want to. I, that's terrible, I I don't want, I don't want to, you know, not mention that if there's any doubt about the quality of this individual.

Speaker 4: 1:47:24

So, um, so that that's. That's a big deal. And to the point of Geller sort of having any strings attached, there's this beautiful moment when he finishes that speech, I cut it off, but there's actually you know what. I'm going to just play it because I think it matters. Hold on, I'm just going to finish it up. He talks about maybe Delilah is your pair of skates. And then there's one more line.

Speaker 1: 1:47:51

I hope to see you back home at Brockton Wayne. I really do.

Speaker 4: 1:48:06

And then, and then he gets up and he walks out and we just stay on Wayne and we pull back, uh, wayne in frame, and that doesn't seem like manipulation to me, that seems like genuine. Like if you choose this path, I will be there.

Speaker 5: 1:48:21

No, no, no I just can't be yeah. To be very clear. I am not saying that he has ulterior motives or that every person who engages in this sort of care is corrupt. I am saying part of my faith in humanity is an understanding that every single person is fallible, not in the abstract. Every single person will fuck up. Every person will make wrong decisions and do bad things. I don't trust humans to do everything right. I trust systems to work most of the time, and so I need to put my faith in that idea, not in the people fuck up so bad, the process doesn't.

Speaker 4: 1:49:03

No, no, of course, as soon as humans get involved in anything, it gets messed up. It's just one of my defining characteristics, like it's my core belief that humans are messy. Um, but this is this. Is that that thing where, if wayne wants the help, geller will be there for him? Uh, if you, if he wants it, go ahead.

Speaker 3: 1:49:20

Coach I'm gonna toss this in, because you know folks and I get into my obsessions. So when you were talking about the health economy and the way you thought of it, I was like this is reminding me of something. There's an imperative. I was trying to remember what this was, and it's seriously. It's Kant's categorical imperative, which is it is our duty to act in such a manner that we would want everyone else to act in a similar manner, in similar circumstances, towards all other people. So, at the core of it, I feel like that's what you're drawing on, coach.

Speaker 3: 1:49:59

That if you don't say it to this extreme but if everyone walked around being Geller when they had the opportunity, that might also eliminate a lot of gaps, although I hear you acknowledging the importance of systems and the role they can play, so I agree with you there. I agree that if, generally speaking, we looked around and thought, if what you need me to do right now is run around this car and tell everybody they're okay and that helps on the way I'll do it, and if everybody made that choice, the world would be a better place, I agree with you. You live by that and I think it's important to acknowledge that part, because I think we can do both.

Speaker 4: 1:50:48

Yeah, no, for sure, it's not a suspenders thing we could do both.

Speaker 4: 1:50:50

yeah, I mean no, you know it's not, it's not about suspenders thing we could do boss is 100 right, and and it comes down to sort of, you know, we sort of have to wrap up here, uh, because I have to go pick up my child, but it comes down to perspective taking. It comes down to, uh, you know, okay, ted lasso frames it beautifully with Kintsugi and all the relationships about things breaking and then being repaired. Meanwhile, littlefinger says chaos is a ladder, so he would see a fracture as a way for him to gain advantage. Leonard Cohen sings about there's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in. There's a crack in everything, that's how the light gets in. So he would see the crack as the defining thing rather than the system as the defining thing. He would think the crack is how the beauty gets in the system. So again, it's all about where you're looking and how you're looking at it. And Boss is absolutely right.

Speaker 4: 1:51:46

And my thoughts on it are not meant to fly in the face of that, right, and I don't my, my, my thoughts on it are not meant to uh, fly in the face of that. Um, it is, it is sort of um, uh, it's, it's a it's. This is something we could talk. We can have several whole episodes and we have over the years. We've discussed this in many ways from various positions. Um, I just want to call out that, uh, I thought this was an absolute tour de force performance yes, that that no one never talked about by steven karen, and, um, and this is his goodbye, uh, we do not see him again. Um, but wait, no, do we wait?

Speaker 1: 1:52:22

no, we do, oh we do.

Speaker 4: 1:52:23

Yes, sorry, we do one more scene with him. Um, but this is it for him saying goodbye to uh, to wayne, here and um and yeah. And this is uh for him saying goodbye to Wayne, here and yeah, and this is Also in the way the scene is constructed.

Speaker 3: 1:52:36

Geller, yes, the actor brought it to life for us, but speaking about the character for a moment, Geller's humanity in that moment made room for Wayne, right, Like Wayne was like oh, this isn't bullshit.

Speaker 3: 1:52:54

Yeah, Wayne was choked up when he's describing his father moving like that and, I think, realizing whoa, who's this guy? I thought I knew who this man was and what is this? And Wayne, you see Wayne start to look over during the speech a couple times and they make a point of showing us that and then he asks where's the dad now?

Speaker 4: 1:53:17

right, right I was frustrated because I'm like wayne, you've seen this guy take his shirt off. You've seen he's not your average, like fucking mount canadian mountie. You know, like this dude has seen some shit and kind of you know but he's still on their body crazy.

Speaker 4: 1:53:33

Yeah, I mean, of course, of course. And and on top of it it's a dr sharon moment where it's like, okay, I'm gonna extend myself to you, yeah, so that you might extend yourself. There's no artifice, is a authentic, belie, 100% truthful retelling of his childhood moment that affected him. He didn't have to share that with Wayne, but in doing so it builds that trust and hopefully gets Wayne to reciprocate in the future. Okay, we could talk forever, but we got to go. Boss, where do people find you if they want to find you? I started with boss today how about that?

Speaker 5: 1:54:15

most likely you can find me on threads, which is emilychambers.31, although I'm also on blue sky. That is, emily, underscore chambers and reading everyday, although still not writing, at the antagonist, which is antagonistblogcom.

Speaker 4: 1:54:35

Oh, I just missed my mic and Coach. What about you? So?

Speaker 3: 1:54:40

a special request for those of you who have heard me talk about we Align. We are launching the podcast More Afraid of the Bear, as Coach has pointed out and it is a bit crazy and I am moving some things around in my life, but I'm very excited about this conversation. We'll be doing a lot of conversation around the kinds of things that we get into here, looking at it a lot more through current events, things like the Diddy story and the Drake beef and national politics and all the things. So, uh, more afraid of the bear. It will be available quite soon. Wherever you get your podcasts and if you come through we align, you'll be able to see the video, uh version of it, the premiere being this week, this Friday on the Cypher. So there we go 8 o'clock Eastern, 5 o'clock Pacific.

Speaker 4: 1:55:34

That's when this episode drops. So yeah, it'll be today, so look out for that. Thank you everyone for joining us for this episode of Wayne, episode 10, buckle the Fuck Up. We'll be back with Part 3 next time. Please support your local libraries and the written word and raise better boys so that they don't have to get speeches from sergeants in Ocala, florida, who belong in Boston, brockton, massachusetts. Thank you everybody. Thank you for joining for another episode and until next time we are.

Speaker 3: 1:56:11

Rich Richman, till, till, we Die. I got nothing. Damn it Roller skate.

Speaker 4: 1:56:18

Oh, I thought it was going to be a roller skate.

Speaker 3: 1:56:20

Oh, I'm disappointed in myself. Just cross over.

Speaker 4: 1:56:26

His hands are so beautiful. His hands are so beautiful. He remembers his dad's hands. Oh beautiful, kills me. His hands are so beautiful, his hands are so beautiful. Remembers his dad's hands? Oh beautiful, kills me, kills me. Alright, thanks everybody, we'll see you next time.