The Bear | S1 E1 "System"

What happens when a Michelin-starred chef returns to his family’s sandwich shop amidst a whirlwind of chaos and grief?   Coach Castleton, Coach Bishop, and Boss Emily Chambers lead us through our spirited discussion, punctuated by personal anecdotes and a deep dive into the show's intricate editing style and pacing. Through this lens, we compare "The Bear" to other series like "Ted Lasso" and "Wayne," highlighting its unique narrative choices.

What happens when familial tensions, professional accolades, and kitchen hierarchy collide? We unravel the complex dynamics between Carmy and his colleagues, especially as new sous chef Sydney navigates a minefield of seasoned staff and high expectations. From the prestigious James Beard Award to the personal and professional struggles of managing a kitchen, the emotional undertones are palpable. We delve into themes of grief and change, examining how the characters wrestle with Mikey’s legacy while embracing new ways of working. Listen in as we share heartfelt personal stories that parallel the show’s familial conflicts, making this conversation both relatable and profound.

We discuss the powerful line, “Why didn’t he leave it to you then?” that resonates through the narrative, reflecting on how honesty and love can shape relationships in professional settings.  This episode is a rich tapestry of emotions, personal growth, and the culinary world’s relentless pace.

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The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpieces that are Ted Lasso on Apple TV+ , Wayne on YouTube and The Bear on FX/Hulu.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on ...well, everything.  Both coaches have ADHD and Boss is just a straight-up nightmare.  If you can keep up, this show covers it all: sports, relationships, parenting, loss, conflict, friendship, joy, teamwork, cultures, families and more.  It's a catch all podcast for all things AFC Richmond and the world beyond.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 2: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso Talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the Lasso Way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 3: 0:40

Okay, welcome back, beautiful people. Today we are discussing. What are we discussing today? Well, we finished Ted Lasso and we finished Wayne and now we're picking up. It's too bad we don't have a drumroll, but today we are discussing the Bear on FX. We're discussing Season one, episode one. This episode is entitled System. I am your host, coach Castleton. With me, as always, is Coach Bishop.

Speaker 4: 1:13

What is going on, folks? You'll forgive me if I sound a little faint. I've been staring at Italian beef for a fucking half hour. These assholes didn't warn me, so I'm feeling a little low blood sugary. I'm not going to lie, so we'll see how this goes. But uh, no, so far, this is my first foray into the beer. I actually waited for this moment. We talked about possibly being in the show, so I am very excited.

Speaker 3: 1:44

Uh, with us is our boss, Emily Chambers.

Speaker 5: 1:48

And I would like to apologize. I've been staring at Jeremy Allen White for the past 30 minutes, so I'm also feeling a bit faint. These assholes didn't need to warn me I I have them as my desktop anyway, so you know. So yeah, thank desktop anyway.

Speaker 3: 2:05

So you know. So yeah, thank you, boss. So what we wanted to have is the dynamic Boss and I have seen all the way through the bear. It returns on June 27th with a complete season. They're going to drop the entire third season. We're going to make our way through. We're going to try to do it at a clip where we typically don't do. We'll see how that goes. Usually goes very poorly, but we are going to try our best.

Speaker 3: 2:32

And why the bear? There was something that Ted Lasso and Wayne both had, which is they are sort of iconic views of you know slice of life sort of things. And the bear is another in that sort of family of really great stories well told. And this one happens to take place in Chicago. Ted Lasso was in London and by way of Kansas City, and Wayne was in Massachusetts, brockton, mass and Ocala, florida and all parts in between. We intentionally didn't want Coach to watch it because we thought it would be good to have a fresh sort of set of eyes on this one, and I wanted to pick a show that I knew Boss wouldn't. Ted Lasso on Meaning that.

Speaker 5: 3:33

Well, not yet, not so far. Don't jinx season three.

Speaker 3: 3:36

No right, it was important to me. It's tough when one of the three of us sort of checks out on a show and maybe Coach will be that person this time of checks out on the show and I can't. Maybe maybe coach will be that person this time, maybe this is not the show for him. I, I, I was nervous in that. Uh, coach has well documented his, his struggles with anxiety, crippling anxiety, shutdown, anxiety. Um, he's so much better. I mean, coach actually is a real testament because actually, now that I say it out loud, it almost feels weird, because you're doing such a great job navigating that.

Speaker 4: 4:08

Um, a lot of work done, a lot of work a lot of work.

Speaker 3: 4:11

A lot of work. Um yeah, I don't know. Seriously, it's like it's, it's. You know. Just every day I see how much better and you, you know it's part of it is just being more. You're also more prepared, you're more self-aware, you know yourself better, you can see the pitfalls ahead of time. That's a whole new thing. I was nervous about the Bear for you, because we open up with the most frenetic pace. Five minutes, it literally does not stop. You cannot get a breath. The editing is crazy. The pace is insane. Editing is crazy. The the pace is insane. Hard cuts, fast cuts, um, like a music with a driving beat. Uh, you get one glimpse at a clock and you gotta go.

Speaker 4: 4:53

Uh, now let's, we're gonna take this yeah, go ahead, coach, go ahead pitching into that vibe. Because, yes, that was my experience at first and I was like, okay, um, is anybody gonna explain anything or are we just going to just barrel through this? Nope, but what I loved about it was we're super close, we're here, we're there. Like our angles on it. I really did feel like I was getting a peek into this place, like somehow, like at some point somebody was going to turn to me personally and be like what the fuck are you doing back here? You know what I mean, and so I thought that was a very interesting quality and clearly very much a choice. I mean, it wasn't like they backed into that.

Speaker 3: 5:35

So, yeah, I thought it was pretty cool um, we're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna break it down in pieces. Uh, I wanted to say with ted lasso it felt like a little bit like a manual, like it's like okay, here are the rules. You know there's a lot of Ted Lasso. If you go to some of the best quotes from Ted Lasso, they're sort of ideas on topics, rules to live by. You know, there's only thing worse than being sad is being sad alone. Like there's all these sort of. You know it's like a game plan for life. If you break it down and they're very vocal and out about it.

Speaker 3: 6:08

With Wayne, it is less that and more of a code driving the narrative and the relationship between civilization and chaos, no-transcript, tell the way that they operate. With the bear, all that is out the window. People tend to shift more. Uh, the codes are more pliable. So I feel like we've earned the bear by going through the manual and then the code application and it's not like a boss is thinking about this. She's looking up to say, hmm, but we're going to see. Because of the way it's done, I think what we'll find is that there are several different codes at work and sometimes more than one code inside the same person, based on situation and we're going to explore that a little bit. But when we start, we have a scene where, uh, carmy, uh, who's played by? Who's that actor? Boss, I can't remember, uh, his name.

Speaker 3: 7:32

He's a handsome all right let me look it up real quick. One second. It's jeremy. Oh, jeremy, allen, what? Yes?

Speaker 5: 7:40

it's uh. I said he was that bitch 10 years ago and it has been one of the most fulfilling things of my life watching it come true. Yeah he's faux real.

Speaker 3: 7:51

He's really great. He is the lead of the show, Absolutely stupendous in this role. This is like it's not like he wasn't amazing in Shame. It's not like he's not amazing in everything he does. He's one of those guys.

Speaker 5: 8:11

But this has the feel of like okay, like holy shit, like yeah it, just to be perfectly honest. Somebody watched him give the financial aid uh, monologue in shameless and was like well, he needs his own tv show. He, he can't be second or third fiddle to emmy and William H Macy anymore.

Speaker 3: 8:25

Yeah, this show is absolutely right. They were right about that. The show creator is Christopher Storer. I knew Chris back in the day. I fell out of touch with him a few years back but absolutely fantastic human being and one of those guys that loves his city. He's from Chicago. I knew him in Los Angeles. We used to go try to find cheap food together. Believe it or not, we were the poorest of our friend group and he's an absolutely wonderful human being and guys would want to go to fancy stuff. They'd be like oh, this new. I think it was like Moza open up. Coach. I'm trying to think Is that the restaurant? It was like a pizza place.

Speaker 4: 9:04

that opened up. Yeah, the one over there on like Melrose right.

Speaker 3: 9:08

Yeah, it's like that's right. I remember when that opened up and I was like why would it's like, oh, you have to wait, wait like eight months to get a?

Speaker 4: 9:14

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 9:27

So you like a thing? Yeah, I'm just like I don't, I don't. So, anyway, him and I would go search all of these dives, uh, in los angeles and get like, really stick to your ribs food for cheap, uh. So it did not surprise me that years later, he creates this, what I think is a masterpiece, and, um, I'll, I'll see if, uh, if coach uh jumps on board with me on that. Uh, when we open up, there is a literal sort of scene where Carmi, played by Jeremy Allen White, is facing a bear in a cage. The first thing Coach said was another man on a road, huh, right away when he saw us open on the bridge. What's that bridge, boss? That's the Chicago Bridge. What's that bridge boss? That's a Chicago bridge. I'm guessing right?

Speaker 5: 10:08

It's definitely one of them. It's one downtown. I can't remember if it is. I don't think it's Clark, I can look it up, but it's one of them, right on the river, right downtown. Okay, and I would also like to mention that in the few days after the bear came out, there were a lot of people making jokes on twitter and other social media sites about, uh, it's called the bear, but where's the bear? And I'm like that would only be funny if you hadn't watched the first 30 seconds. The first 30 seconds is car me letting a bear out of a cage. There is a literal bear in the bear. Your jokes did not work. I don't know if you need to do your research before joking.

Speaker 4: 10:46

I don't know if you heard. Well, you know the internet, where facts and logic go to die. I don't know that that admonition is going to get us far, but I appreciate you fighting the good fight. Yeah, seriously. But I said I don't know if y'all heard me there was a lot going on actually like what, um? But I I said, oh, a literal bear. And so it's funny to me that then we come out of that and we're in a dream sequence, um. But I definitely thought, okay, what, what, what's this guy unleashing? That? That's the dream we start with. Yes.

Speaker 4: 11:31

I was immediately curious and the turn to the clock added to my like what am I being told? Like definitely the film student in me was like hmm, I am missing things or I could miss things. I better really focus here, because it doesn't seem like they're not going to just tell you the straight story. It's not just guy walks in and says, hey, this happened yesterday and what are we going to do about it today? You got to pay attention. So I was, yeah, I was immediately curious, like quite literally, as he starts walking down the road before I saw the cage and realized, oh my god, it's a little bear. I was like, okay, I'm curious, where's he walking? What's happening right now?

Speaker 3: 12:20

coach. Uh, before we get into the nitty-gritty, your your your feelings about the whole episode um, first of all, curious, not judgmental, no, I'm kidding.

Speaker 4: 12:37

but curious, though, seriously, because because, well, it reminded me a lot of different things, and I'll try not to go too long because we're taking on a new way of being around here. But I do want to share this. I may have shared in the past that I have an older brother with whom I've had a kind of complicated relationship let's just phrase it that way and move forward so immediately. All this odd energy, and so you know the guy who went off to the fancy fan, the fancy pants place, and now has to come home and deal with his family I was like oh, you should have stayed in Napa, brother.

Speaker 4: 13:22

It's going to be a rough ride. Not really.

Speaker 4: 13:28

I love my family and my brother and I get along great now. So I shouldn't say I love my brother and we tell each other we love each other whenever we speak, I'm fucking around. I immediately had that like when they say you can't go home again, brother, that is not just a physical uh, that's not just a physical thing. So I I felt immediately like uh-oh, um, beyond that, I thought they were all interesting. I liked that they were so rough with each other, even though there was obviously something keeping them there. I didn't get the sense that anybody was there to. You know, make sure they were vested in their shares. So, like, for some reason, you show up every fucking day. Well, so I was like, okay, I'm curious, tell me what, uh, tell me why, rather. And then the guy who makes the bread. And I'm sorry, I literally just watched my first episode. So, marcus, yeah.

Speaker 4: 14:32

I love that he starts like he bristles, Like everyone. There is bristling, which I hear and I'm sure the relationships add to it, of like don't come in here with your fucking bullshit telling us how to do things, and but then also I think they all in their hearts know that he knows. So it's a very touchy thing, like he actually doesn't have to say I know better than you, because on some level it is clear that he knows better how this place should run, like the kitchen. I don't know if he understands the business as well, but he definitely understands the kitchen better, and so I thought it. Probably my favorite moment of the episode was and kind of being like all right, maybe you're not just some. You know head up your ass, you know pinky up, motherfucker, Maybe you know what you're talking about.

Speaker 3: 15:37

Okay, so the premise is a chef who has gone off to the big city and won James Beard Awards and been the top chef, executive chef or coach, I'm going to, I'm going to do to you which you sometimes do to me what is a James Beard award?

Speaker 3: 15:53

Because I vaguely have some familiarity. Yeah, just, it's like, it's a, it's a, it's, it's, it's. Basically you're a made man Once you win a James Beard, like it's like, okay, you are the best of the best. I only know this because we have a friend who won one or two and he, like Karmie, has them like you get like a statue, and he doesn't know where his is. He's like, I think it's in. You know, it's like one of those, and you get the sense about the guys that are really in love with it. And you get the sense about the guys that are really in love with it.

Speaker 3: 16:26

This show is about Carmi, who comes back. I'm just giving a quick rundown because some people who are tuning in are in their car or out in a run and they go shit. I wish I had known I would have watched it. Coach, thanks for all the great communication, but that's not what I do. Well, I wanted it to be a surprise, um, and I wasn't sure I was going to go through with it until we actually rolled. So boss and coach have been behind the scenes making fun of me. I'm usually very decisive, uh, but I was hesitant, uh, to go for another three season show just based on how long ted lasso took us to go through. So that's why we're going to try to get through this in one, one in one. But anyway, carmi comes back, he's the main character and his brother has has passed away and left him an Italian beef restaurant boss. Jump in here If I'm mischaracterizing anything or any of those.

Speaker 5: 17:22

Nope, I would only say Italian beef or sandwich shop. Synonymous In Chicago, a sandwich shop is any place that has either Italian beef or burgers or hot dogs, fries, onion rings, pizza puff, a motherfucking pizza puff.

Speaker 3: 17:41

it changes in your entire life.

Speaker 5: 17:42

I don't know what that is so any sort of not fancy but really good sandwich place? You don't know what a pizza puff is.

Speaker 4: 17:47

never heard those two words, and I've been to chicago and I felt like I had figured chicago out pretty well. But I do not know what a pizza puff is at all like. I'm not like I'm like oh yeah, like I've. I don't know that I've ever heard that phrase before this is like a percolator moment.

Speaker 5: 18:05

It is sort of a calzone, except a much flakier buttery crust. So cheese sauce, sometimes some meat on the inside, and then not a croissant, but that sort of flakiness on the outside. And it's usually baked, but every once in a while you can get it deep fried. It's fucking amazing.

Speaker 4: 18:23

Yeah.

Speaker 5: 18:24

It's like an extremely high quality. Uh, what are the pizza rolls?

Speaker 4: 18:29

Ah, fucking delicious. My imagination just had a coronary so cool. Yeah, that sounds too good.

Speaker 3: 18:36

Too good. So, uh, so it's just to finish. Uh, carmen comes back. His brother has passed away mikey um, and left the, the italian beef family restaurant, to um sandwich shop, to carmy, who is like a, you know, like a. He's worked in the best restaurants on the planet and been under the most pressure and one of those people that sort of ran away from home to try to find some meaning on his own, away from this. And as we pick it up, he is back in it trying to make sense of it. Mikey hasn't paid bills. You know his meat, uh delivery is is one-tenth of what he was hoping for. He's got to sell personal items to uh make uh enough money to and empty like uh uh, vending machines and video game machines with coins just to afford enough meat to get through the day to feed people that day. So it's sort of a crazy thing that we're getting into and it's intentionally.

Speaker 3: 19:40

The Chris store and the and the writing staff drop you into this intentionally in the most chaotic way so that you are with Carmi in this experience. So that's generally the setup. There's a lot of friction, with Carmi coming in with his ideas about how a kitchen should be run, because this is your local sandwich place. They have a system which the episode is called system. Uh, they have. They have regulars, they have people that you know that come in all the time and expect a certain type of food.

Speaker 3: 20:18

And car me is starting to mess with that system, the system put in place by the deer departed Mikey, and so not only does it have sort of you know actual sort of practical implications for the staff learning on the go under the most pressure cooker environment, but it also is, in a way, perceived as a slight against Kami's brother, like okay, like it's sort of pissing on his grave in a way. Because as a slight against carmy's brother, like okay, like it's sort of pissing on his grave in a way. Because you're like what the like this is? Oh, it's good enough for mike, but all of a sudden you know his little brother comes in and it's not good enough for him, like, so there's that whole thing going on. Uh, plus, the restaurant has been run in general by their cousin richie, richie and Richie is played by Eben Moss. Bachrock and Bachrock I don't know how do you say it boss, I think it's Bachrock, but I can look that up.

Speaker 5: 21:19

I also wanted to quickly mention it is the LaSalle Street Bridge. I need to double check, but that is in fact it. And also when they say cousin you can't see the air quotes that I'm doing right now but it's cousin, it's um, the same way I'm aunt.

Speaker 4: 21:39

I'm really glad you said that, cause I mean I get it and I have I've had a ton of play cousins in my life, but um, I thought they were cousins like I. You know, just because I'm figuring everything out here and putting things together.

Speaker 4: 21:52

Um, by the way, even this uh, and we'll walk through, but you asked for my general uh reactions. I am also deeply already deeply invested in the relationship between him and his sister. I don't know what the fuck's going on there. I don't know why she's the person who has access to his shit, since it seems like they ain't exactly get together every Sunday for a Sunday dinner. Together every Sunday for a Sunday dinner. I don't know what's going on with these two, but there's a lot of love and a lot of unspoken shit that I'm like. I am here for that relationship. I want to know what the fuck's going on, so I skipped that.

Speaker 3: 22:39

That makes me very happy. Karmie's sister Sugar.

Speaker 4: 22:43

Her name is Natalie Sugar Bersatoato and the nicknames are a fantastic way, too, to tell us a lot about like who they are and how they grew up I, it's, it's really, it is so smart and so good.

Speaker 3: 22:57

Uh, if nothing else, I will say this um, this is a story. Uh, when I knew Chris uh store who, who created the show, um, he had taken a bunch of things on the chin in the industry and was always second fiddle to everyone else, had a lot of friends that were super successful, and so this is a the. The actual story of the bear is really about like, a really good person making it, and that is that is pretty fucking great, because it just doesn't happen all the time. Some really awful people uh make it in hollywood and uh, this is, this is a wonderful sort of story. Um, chris has a great eye for for actors and people, and so so it's funny. You mentioned sugar. She's played by Abby Elliott, who was a former cast member on SNL. She is, she can do it all, she's really good at dramatic acting, but she, she is really funny too, you know.

Speaker 4: 23:58

I didn't realize, and maybe that's what I you know I'm in and out with Saturday night live over the years but I I felt like I had seen her before. That would make sense that I could have seen some sketches or whatever Do you know the comedian Chris Elliott?

Speaker 3: 24:12

Coach? Yeah, that's his daughter.

Speaker 4: 24:19

Oh Okay, I'm in.

Speaker 3: 24:20

I think Boss was about to say that. Boss, were you about to say that? Were you about to tell him that? Yeah, All right that?

Speaker 5: 24:25

Yeah, obviously you're going to reference his biggest role as the driver in Groundhog's Day, chris Elliott.

Speaker 3: 24:32

Honest to God, that was an amazing role. I mean, yeah, we've got to hurry up, we're going to stay ahead of the weather. Hey, larry, I think Larry is his name. Yeah, and Chris Elliott in Groundhog's uh, hey, larry is, I think larry is his name. Uh, yeah, and chris elliot and groundhog day is seriously, it's brilliant. Um, but yes, abby elliot uh is, uh, plays the sister. We see her for all of it's. It's wonderful that you uh reference that coach, because what does she have six, eight lines in this whole thing? She gets a minute of screen time out of the 27. I I mean so much depth.

Speaker 4: 25:04

I felt like I was looking at the top of a of a placid Lake and just thinking, oh, now, why did you think?

Speaker 3: 25:12

did you notice that there was the driving music? There was the craziness, and then Carmi steps out and then he goes outside. We're away from it's the only time he actually doesn't step foot out, but he opens the back door, doesn't let Sugar in and there was no music behind it. It was quiet. Go ahead, boss.

Speaker 5: 25:34

I'm not sure if we're going scene by scene, but what I should say is I don't know if it's that he won't let her in or if he knows that she doesn't like to come into the restaurant Because in the scene before she shows up, oh shoot Okay. Yeah the scene before that Carmi's talking to Tina, who's amazing and we'll get into her. She says why doesn't your sister like to come here anymore? And he's like you'll have to ask her.

Speaker 3: 25:59

Right, there's like a thing Sorry, I didn't mean to mischaracterize that yes, the right. There is a question about whether she would have come in or wanted to come in, or whatever. Yeah, that's.

Speaker 4: 26:08

That's also the quality of the writing again, I mean just because I've had I mean we've all had complicated families are complicated, right. So you know, um, daphne shared, shared with me that somebody told her that, um, they call family the other word, which I think is a very funny line that I wish I had written. I'm so mad. Like.

Speaker 4: 26:29

Part of me is like if I steal it, will they know? Because that is a great fucking line, that's a great one, but at any rate, but even that line, you'll have to ask her. I remember when my brother and I weren't communicating and someone would say, like, how is he? And I would always say something vague, yet telling that there was something up. It would be in the vicinity of like I really couldn't tell you, you know. You know, you tell me when you know, like whatever it would be, you know, you tell me when you know, like whatever it would be, it would be not. I hate that fucking asshole, but it would be. I don't know. And if you ask me tomorrow, I'm still not going to.

Speaker 3: 27:13

That's weird, cause he would say that about you. I'm sure he would. I'm sure that, at worst, believe me, yeah, no, no. And um, coach, there was a we talk about about I'm so happy that you're on good terms with them and say I love you and you seem to have repaired it. Um, you, we talk about breaking the chain and you recently had, like a thing where your son had a graduation and I asked you to hold it and not talk about it beforehand. But will you talk about how you've, you know, not done that in your, in the family that your nuclear family you created?

Speaker 4: 27:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm going to give a little, just a little bit of preamble, like two sentences, to give this some context. So you know, teenagers, parents, I mean it's normal stuff, and so we definitely, especially during the lockdown, my son and I didn't see everything exactly the same way. Let's just say that. So you know, it's been me. You know, I was kind of looking at my wounds about that, and one of the things I shared in my own therapy is that, and somewhere in my head I had pictured Cliff and Theo, we were going to be out in the backyard having hilarious games of one-on-one basketball and occasionally maybe go get his ear pierced, and we'd do some physical comedy. It was going to be awesome, it was going to be fantastic. No laugh track needed. It was going to be fantastic. And life doesn't quite work that way, as my therapist put it out to me, and that was a TV show which I was a documentary, so that I know such a shit was falling apart, but but really just sort of getting to like be real. So that's, that's the background, little more than two sentences. So we get high school graduations yesterday. They announce his name, and it's his full name is Alexander Orlando Bishop. And they get to him next and I'm ready and they say Alexander Bishop oh, he didn't want to say his middle name. It's blah, blah, blah. It was a rejection. And in real time I leaned into my work and was like you don't know any of that. All you know right now is what was just said. You don't know if a form was filled out. You know nothing, you're making stuff up. It's his graduation, be proud't start. Basically, I was like talking like almost like I was the annoying person in my own group where I was like don't start that shit today, right, so I don't start, just don't even fucking start with me, right? Um?

Speaker 4: 30:04

And then after the graduation, we walk and we meet up. You know where he's supposed to meet up with the, with the students and my son's taking these pictures. So I wait and, as he's done, taking a picture with his friend, I tap him and go to give each other a pound, right. So I give him a pound and I pull him in to hug him and we just like clamped into this unbelievably huge, tight, squeezing hug. That lasted long enough that Daphne started taking pictures and I'm choked up and apparently he's teary and his grandmother is over there almost in tears just watching this and it was amazing, and neither of us.

Speaker 4: 30:51

It was so perfect to how you deal with somebody in their way, because if I'm in his position, I maybe deliver a soliloquy, but that's not him right, and he said everything he had to say. That hug he could have stood there and talked through the night and he wouldn't have said as much as he did with that hug and it was just, it was a, really um, yeah, it was, it was a. It was a pretty amazing moment. So I texted, uh, a text thread that coach and I referenced that we all, a bunch of our buddies and I finished my message to them about it by saying Cliff and Theo ain't got nothing on us, yeah.

Speaker 5: 31:41

Aw, see, I hadn't heard that part. That was pretty amazing.

Speaker 4: 31:48

It was really. I will remember that moment for a very long time.

Speaker 3: 31:51

So okay, so that is beautiful and this is why that is. That is a person who is very, very self-aware, raising uh people, putting them in the world, and again, it's not all uh, roses and rainbows, like when you do this, there are, there are speed bumps. So one of the things that the bear does incredibly well, like just incredibly well, is the honesty of the writing. What you'll notice, and specifically in how families and relationships work. Okay, coach references the text that we're on. I remember the moment when we started saying, like, when the guys in this group started being more affectionate, like actually, yeah, affectionate we started saying, hey, man, I love you. Like I really because, because it was crazy during the pandemic and you know, but there's no like we weren't worried about being masculine or much. There was never.

Speaker 3: 32:50

It's not like that ever was a thing, but it was a conscious decision that we sort of we didn't, we, we didn't discuss it and take a vote, but it just started to happen when we realized you know what like this is fleeting and let's make sure everybody knows where we stand family relationships, like with carmine sugar and carmine mikey, and then you'll, you'll see, you'll see many more. You have the ancillary relationship, the cuz, you know, the cousins and that sort of thing. You have the relationship with, um, all the people in the, in the kitchen, the kitchen staff, and this is where you may have heard your friends. If you haven't watched the bear, you may have heard the terms like behind chef corner, um, you know all these things. Um, heard, chef? There's a hard, yeah, there's all these terms that that two years ago or three years ago, when this came out, uh, people started saying it in their kitchen with their family, joking around, and now it's sort of caught on and has a. It's all it means and things all to itself.

Speaker 3: 33:50

Um, there's also a relationship between the? Um, the beef and the community, and there's a relationship between the characters and city. So this whole thing is sort of a meet. Cute in the way that it's set up. Uh, and when you set up like a rom-com sort of meet cute coach, right, you don't have everybody get along to start with because there's nowhere to go. So one of the big things coach reacted to was, in the middle of all this chaos because again, this is where it works best A new chef comes in to apply for the. Is it the Sue position? I forget what it? What is it?

Speaker 3: 34:32

she said she said too right yeah so again, I am not an expert on kitchens or chefs or anything like that, so I'm probably gonna mess up um and um. Oh, coach, knock it off. Coach, did you see what he just put?

Speaker 5: 34:47

in. Oh, I did, I and I was gonna think I was going to make that joke. It's a meat cute m M-E-A-T cute joke. I love a pun Love that.

Speaker 4: 34:57

I thought that was fun.

Speaker 5: 35:00

So I will only say I didn't read this whatsoever as a rom-com. I think if Shameless and Ted Lasso had a baby, it would be the bear.

Speaker 3: 35:10

No, no, I'm not saying that. I'm saying the setup for every relationship. So I'll give you an example.

Speaker 5: 35:14

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But what I would say is that this is not. This is Ted walking into the locker room the first day and Keely coming in and everybody leaving. Nobody's paying attention to him. He is coming in as an outsider that nobody actually believes can do this work, even though he was successful in a different area, and trying to win them over, even though he's known some of them his entire life.

Speaker 3: 35:40

Yeah, no, it's a good point. It is a fish-out-of-water story, even though he's a fish that grew up in these waters, so it is very, very interesting. Coach is nodding. Yeah, Coach, people can't see you.

Speaker 4: 35:50

No well articulated. Yeah, thank you. No, I know. Well said, I like that. And what's it like to be a fish out of water, in the water you were raised in, you know what I mean. That's a whole thing.

Speaker 3: 36:04

I'm going to go through quickly. The sous chef that is hired in the middle of all this shit knows somehow who Karmie is and knows what he's all about. There's a great, great moment. He she hands her resume to car me and he looks and he goes jesus christ, she's got some. She's got some heat, she has some like real restaurants, he asked. He goes down the resume. He's like oh, what's ups? I haven't heard that that's you know what's that restaurant? She's like no, like united parcel service like I. He's like oh, what'd you do there? She's like no, like United Parcel Service Like I. And he's like, oh, what'd you do there? She's like I delivered shit, like I worked my way through school. Cia is the Culinary Institute of America.

Speaker 4: 36:41

Yeah, and that's not like a little thing, that's not no CIA is like Julia, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like CIA is. Yeah, juilliard is a great like. I was like when I have heard of this. This is not my world. That means you are at the absolute top. Yes. So these two Like.

Speaker 5: 37:01

CIA Culinary Art Institute and CIA Central Intelligence Agency, both like at the same sort of badass level, and then, just underneath that, you could become a certified internal auditor.

Speaker 4: 37:16

The least cool of the CIAs.

Speaker 5: 37:19

I will tell you from experience not that impressive.

Speaker 3: 37:23

Awful. I knew a person who attended CIA and she majored in French pastry and I thought wow, wow, wow, that's amazing. Wow, every day day in, day out in French pastry. And I thought, wow, wow, wow, that's amazing. Every day, day, in, day out, french pastry. This is Io Adebri, who plays Sydney, and she has won at least one award for this, multiple awards. I'm guessing. Yeah, didn't?

Speaker 4: 37:49

she win the Golden Globe or something Sorry.

Speaker 3: 37:52

No, I think she's really good. She's from Boston, of course. We just make great actors here, that's a joke, but she is really actually tremendous and just such God. The casting is unbelievable and she just kills every single scene. So she has to make what's called family, which is the meal that the sous chef or it depends, I guess, in different restaurants they do it differently, but in this place she's got to make family, which is a meal for the staff before doors open, so you get everybody fed and um, and so that's part of her job.

Speaker 3: 38:31

She goes to ask, hey, do we have like a shelf where the family stuff is? And she asked tina, who's like an old school sort of uh chef who's been there for a while, played by uh, liza colonza and uh marcus, played by lionel boyce. And uh, she asked them hey, uh, um, I know it's actually it wasn't marcus, it was uh, ibrahim, it was edwin lee gibson plays ibrahim. And she says, hey, does anyone have like, do we keep family meals? And then she thinks, oh, oh, um, you know, uh, lisa can't. Uh, I mean sorry, tina, uh, tina cannot understand me because she only speaks spanish. So she starts asking her in spanish and then she gets mocked by tina and tina just puts her fingers in her face and goes fuck you or fuck off.

Speaker 4: 39:18

Well, I forget which one but it was like fuck you oh, it was a fuck you okay.

Speaker 3: 39:22

So coach is like oh, and this is what I'm saying like when you have this sort of starting point, you know like where you can't, you have to go the other direction, or it's like complete disaster. So that's where she starts. And then Ibrahim's like oh, it's in the, in the cooler on the top right shelf. So that's the. There's all of these. I'll say one more quickly. I want to point out a character I love. This is Neil Fack, played by Maddie Matheson, who is boss. Do you have anything? Before I say anything about Matty Matheson, do you know him?

Speaker 5: 39:56

Do you know anything about him? Not, I didn't know him at all before the show. I do know that in real life he is a chef and that he, like he, cooks, and then he got on the show.

Speaker 3: 40:05

Yeah, I don't, I don't remember. I think he was friends with or they knew each other from the old days. I forget how, how it all worked out, but, um, he has his own youtube channel and I'm going to share with you this one moment he he has. He is so full of adhd. It is hysterical and one of my favorite things. Like my kids make fun of me because I went to his channel and he was making a meal.

Speaker 3: 40:27

He's like I don't have time to cook. He's like I have, uh, three or four kids I forget how many kids he's got but he's like I cook on the weekends and like I'm not, like I gotta get all this food out for all these people. I'm not. It's not like you know, I'm not. This is not a restaurant, I gotta just do it fast. So he does it all so fast and he talks about how, uh, he's like I don't make things fancy.

Speaker 3: 40:47

He makes some bacon and when it's done, he throws it on a paper towel on the counter, like it's not your typical chef show. But there's this moment where he goes to the oven to check on the hash browns that he's cooking and he closed the oven. He turns around and he glances and I'm going to put this video in the community site. He glances like it's like someone walked into the room while he was recording. It's just a quick, like the quickest glance, but you notice it and he's like, okay, um, and he just stops and he goes all right, what are we doing here? What are we doing here? Like he has to. Totally, you see his brain reset and they zoom in.

Speaker 3: 41:26

He saw a thing, he saw a thing, it totally took him out of it and they and it's like 10 seconds of him going. All right, what are we doing? Like he didn't know what he had to go. All right, where am I? What is in front of me? What was my task? Again, like, who am I? Like it was so amazing how it clean wiped his brain. Just that one look and I'm like, oh my God.

Speaker 4: 41:56

I'm like this is like for people that don't know. It was the most amazing glimpse into that reset process. You know, yeah, yeah, that's when people talk about like, oh, when you're aging that, oh, you'll go into a room and not know. I was like. That started when I was five. So I don't know if my people gonna notice I'm gonna be two years into all time is like I don't really notice anything.

Speaker 3: 42:12

Doc, be honest with you seriously, um, so yeah, it's a great. It's a great character and there's a there's also relationship stuff between him and car, me and the neil fact character and richie and I, I, just I, I love so much. I love this so much. Talk about authenticity, talk about realism. If you're a business owner always trying to scrape by, you know a guy like Neil. You know a guy he comes in to fix like the air conditioner and your mixer and also clean the floors and you pay him in food by. It's just you know what I mean. There are these, uh, there are these people that can just kind of do it all and they're whatever, and because they're not married or because they're not, you know, whatever, it is that you can get away with.

Speaker 4: 43:00

Yeah, with certain things so paying them in part, also in relationship, right like not paying them, obviously, but like we are friends here and they want to see you succeed. You know, I mean like above anything, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 43:14

It's, it's, yeah, I love that dynamic he's like, as he's also part of the ancillary family, he's he's like old school friends, forever and sort of. You know, they wouldn't say cousin, but one of the guys that was at marcus and he's fixing the machine, uh, mixer, and uh, for the bread. Marcus is, uh, does, breaks the bread, and he says, hey, is richie always a asshole? And he says, yeah, he's been, he's always, always been like that, um, and he also and richie overhears him, which is the funny part, uh. But there's another moment where he says you know, uh, were you close with mikey, the brother that died? He's like, yeah, man, like we were like best friends and it got real dark at the end and whatever. But and you're like, oh, my god, I love this. I love this dialogue.

Speaker 3: 43:57

You could eat it with a fork. It is so good. Forget about the beef. The beef is amazing. You're gonna be hungry watching this show. Coach is dying. He's we stopped the show in the middle to be like. He's like what are y'all doing to me? Like? I don't understand this is, I don't care about the podcast anymore. I am starving so, so hungry.

Speaker 4: 44:16

I was not even kidding like my stomach growled. That's why I I just thought oh, that looks okay.

Speaker 3: 44:23

But yes, the dialogue is also delicious it is so good, it's so authentic, it's so real. You connect right to it because you can hear how honest it is. Richie uses he calls uh sydney sweetheart, like hey, nice to meet. You calls her abroad, he call. He uses gay slurs. He uses he calls people woke. He at a point, one point he has to calm down, like this mob that's outside and he uses a bunch of absolutely all you fucking incels or whatever he uses all this derogatory he is. His language is repellent to people who would want, would crave better language, but it is authentic. If you have that uncle that comes to Thanksgiving, that kind of brings the show to a halt. Those people are in every family and every sort of peer group and relationship. They exist. You can't make them go away because you want them to go away. They are real and sometimes they have legitimate skills and this is what all this stuff that's being established, boss.

Speaker 5: 45:32

I was going to mention a couple of things and of course we've moved a few points now, so I'm gonna try to keep track of them all. That's fine. It it's a wandering conversation, um number one. I really love that in the dialogue they don't like spoon feed you a lot of different things. They uh, like c in and she says I'm here to stodge. I didn't know what stodging meant before I watched the show. I had to look it up. Same thing when he says you've worked at Avaq and Alinea and UPS.

Speaker 5: 46:03

Like Avaq and Alinea are two of the best restaurants in the city, it doesn't make any sense that she would be there. He says what are you doing here? She gives him some story about how her dad loves the place. That's fine, whatever. What she says immediately after that is you are the most excellent CDC in the country. What are you doing here? And he's like oh, I'm making sandwiches. Didn't know what CDC was either. Cdc chef de cuisine. So like I love that the show does not. It allows you to try to figure out what it's talking about and put yourself into the world.

Speaker 3: 46:36

But it also forgives you, boss, so later on he says she's here to stage and Richie, goes. She's here to fucking what. And it's like oh no, you're not supposed to know. You're not supposed to know it either.

Speaker 5: 46:45

Yes, yeah, and actually so I don't want to get into every line of dialogue, even though all of it is perfect. I will say that there's a scene in the cooler, the walk-in cooler, where Richie is yelling at Carmi about how you're coming in, you're changing things, you're moving things too fast. The guys are texting me, they don't like what you're doing. You can't just come in here and make changes without telling me. And it needs like yelling at Carmi, yelling at him and saying don't forget, this is your brother's house. I was running it just fine before you got here. And Carmi says why didn't he leave it to you then?

Speaker 5: 47:24

And there are other scenes where people will talk about when Jeremy Ellen White won all of his awards. That is the line. For me it is the most perfectly delivered line I have heard, maybe in my entire life. Honorary shout out to Betty Gilpin and American Gods for saying I'm trying to get my dignity back here. But the emotional layering and complexity, that like needle that he needed to thread in order to make that work, where he wasn't being a little bitch and he wasn't like, hey, fuck you. He kind of was fuck you a little bit, but it was done in this way, that he was trying to put richie in his place. Tell him like hey, fucking, stop yelling at me, acknowledging that the situation isn't great and then also saying like I am here because Mikey is dead, so why didn't he leave it to you?

Speaker 5: 48:22

then I can't do the delivery I've heard the line and I know what the emotion is supposed to be and I can't do it in real life. It is phenomenal. It's the best thing I've ever seen ever.

Speaker 4: 48:34

One of the things I loved about it is it was a level, and I'm not, generally speaking, I'm not a fan of the phrase or the practice of brutal honesty, because I think often it's just people dressing up the fact that they're being an asshole. But I think, in an actual, emotional, real way, there are moments where brutal honesty is called for. There are moments where not just I'm going to tell you the unvarnished truth, but I'm going to say it to you in a way that punches you in the nose because you got to slow down. You got to slow the fuck down. Right now you're, you need to stop, and and I and for me, I don't know if you know, I like recoiled because I was like I saw, oh, I call, I called it out.

Speaker 3: 49:27

I was like look at coach's face. Yeah, because I was like whoa like?

Speaker 4: 49:31

because it didn't strike me people say nasty things to each other. It didn't strike me as like yeah, well, yes, you know you're not his brother and his brother. It struck me as like we both motherfucking know yes, yep, yes, why we?

Speaker 3: 49:46

know, we know the answer to that question no bullshit, and you know it as well as I do, so knock it off so you know, when you're, when you're a parent, uh, you're all you're a lot of your early days with, if you have more than one child, is navigating the relationship between the children, like having a day teaching them to sort of get along or figure it out, or that sort of thing. Um, and there's this sort of bubble space idea about like I'll stay out of people's bubble space, but it's also meet people where they are. And so, coach, I love the point you made. First of all, boss, thank you for calling out that line. It's tremendous, but, but more so than that, in addition to what you're saying and not but when what we see is we see Kami at a dead sprint From the second we meet him.

Speaker 3: 50:35

He's go, go, go, go go, and Richie forces him to stop. He forces it like, sort of traps him in this walk-in and is yelling at him and saying, you know, sort of like laying things on the line, and it's a little bit of a power trip. And it's also the way that you talk to people who are family. You can get away with it because you know you don't have to dress it up, you can be. You know what I would say, you know, brutally honest and that sort of thing. But the one of the reasons I thought that it hit so hard was it was like one little kid enforcing their will on another little kid, like forcing them to be like it's like. Oh, move at my speed right now.

Speaker 3: 51:15

You know what I mean, and it's like that's an insult to someone who sees the whole field like a CDC. You know what I mean. He's like I know. So, okay, there are these people and my, my love of my life happens to be one, who, who are. So this is a, not an affliction I have, because one of the uh, the things about ADHD is time. There's only two times now and not now. But um, juliana is so hyper aware of time. She's like feeling weekends, like right now. She's feeling weekends in November and October, cause she knows we actually don't have the time. You think we have to get these things done because this weekend's gone this way. She's already done the math and it's ticking at all times tick, tick, tick, tick, tick, tick. So Carmi seems to have that sort of ability where he's like I know what it takes to get, uh, the food done. He had to get bone-in beef, which takes two hours longer, and and Richie complains oh, you know, we've never done it in 25 years. We've never done it this way. Everybody, you can kind of see the position.

Speaker 3: 52:19

Some of the best writing uh that you ever see on shows or movies is when you can kind of see both sides of it. And it's not like carmy's right about every single thing. You know, when he misjudges the, the rowdiness of a crowd outside, and it requires richie to legitimately white knight his ass like he literally has to save him from being beaten up in the opening episode by a bunch of the nerdiest uh sort of dudes you've ever seen, like a dude in a carrot suit hits him. Um, so I know, and if you're hearing this the first time, you're like what, what is? What are they talking about? And I know this has been very non-linear and I apologize because this is even more adhd than we usually do it. Um, but I want people to who don't know the show to sort of hear all of the elements, uh, and be interested.

Speaker 3: 53:11

And when coach was talking about his the moment he took away where marcus had an appreciation for carme now I hope you understand that what happened was marcus was making rolls. Carme says no, these are too dry, you got to put a steam tray in the in the oven. Marcus, you know, poo-pooed it and was like don't tell me to do my fucking job. You know that whole thing. Then he does it and the rolls come out amazing and he's like oh, you, like you know, and marcus happens to also pick up his the folder richie dropped on the thing and he sees all of carmy's awards and things like that. So you know, that moment that hit coach really hard was a moment where it was like oh, okay, you actually know what you're talking about and you see, the first sort of you know the pin starts to fall where someone goes okay, wait a second, like everybody else is resistant, but marcus might be buying a tiny bit by the end of the first episode so.

Speaker 4: 54:05

So there are a couple of things in in that dynamic that you're describing and I think there's some value to us. You know, walking through some I, I know I jumped around even when I was giving my reaction. So there's a concept, there's a book called Built to Last so let me slow down by Jim Collins, and Built to Last is essentially a report. Essentially this book is reporting on. They've studied some of the you of the greatest, most long lasting companies, successful companies, however you want to frame it, and they've talked about what exactly makes it so a company is built to last, and so they compare sort of their flagship companies to like a similar company that isn't quite at that level at this point anymore, or at this point, or whatever you want to say. And one of the concepts was trying I was googling the wrong phrase, which is why it took so long, uh, but is preserve the core, stimulate progress, right. So there's a core to what you do as an organization and that should always stay the same, right. So, not quite, but just to be quick, nike, just do it. So n Nike can create a run club after all these years. Because, at the end of the day, what are we actually about? We're about the just do it of it all and all that that means, whether that means buy our t-shirt or come run in our club. That's what we're doing. That's very quick and not perfect. Anyway, you're seeing a classic argument here.

Speaker 4: 55:35

I was enjoying this and I guess I always go to organizational development stuff when I'm checking this stuff out Because I was like that's what you're watching. You're watching Carm say yo, shit's got to change around here, right, right. And he's right, clearly Right. And you're watching them all go yo, man, like we don't even know. You like that, for you to be coming in here Tell us how to make bread and the spaghetti that everybody buys that's a mistake. Like whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. So what they're not? They're not going to have a consultant come in and help them figure out what the core is.

Speaker 4: 56:12

I am assuming that part of what's going to happen in this show is they're going to discover together what the core actually was, and it's not the spaghetti, but it's also not. Oh, I know how to make bone-in braids. Blah, blah, blah. They'll find it, I'm assuming, since everybody loves the show. But I thought that was really interesting. The we've always done it this way versus the well, that's not the right way to do it, and and and I would, I would say neither and both are right, and that's what's most interesting to me about that dynamic here. Because he was right, he was like so you don't call these crazy motherfuckers down here. Congratulations, pt barnum. Now what the fuck we gonna do?

Speaker 3: 56:54

all right, so we're talking about really quickly, uh calming in an effort to to get some business. They they're, they are vendors, are shutting them off and anyone who's been in that situation? It is a very, very terror. It's a terrifying prospect. As a business owner, he says, all right, we're gonna have a tournament for one of his old school video games, where I'm guessing they have the only arcade console in town or something.

Speaker 4: 57:18

Yeah, I mean, it's got that vibe.

Speaker 5: 57:21

Yeah, they say Nerds will come in from Rockford. Rockford is 90 minutes west of the city, so yeah, people will come from a bit.

Speaker 3: 57:31

So Carmi says on social media posts hey, tournament for this, whatever it is today, I forget the name of it. And then outside is lined up all these cosplayers and psychos, and so he probably underestimates the severity of that. And so, yes, coach rightly points out yeah, that's a thing where Richie actually knows better and and knows how to. Richie has to shoot a gun in the air to get everyone's attention, and then he yells at them through a megaphone.

Speaker 4: 58:03

You know, carmy walked out there to try to calm them down that shit was magnificent, by the way, but go ahead, please describe the scene, because it's a very it's, it's. It's an excellent way to show off, like okay, cdc, relax, you are not in napa anymore um, before I'm gonna do just one thing real quick, because this is, uh, I want to.

Speaker 3: 58:25

I want to put this on the air here, hold on okay, don't be rude and start doing a million things like a smartass, right now to take your mom for six months.

Speaker 2: 58:31

No, don't you're have time to take you to your mom for six months. No, don't you fucking start. No, don't you fucking.

Speaker 1: 58:35

I got all kinds of receipts from my divorce lawyer backing up, because all the time I'm trying to put your family back together because you're too much of a cocksucker to come home. The guys are texting me. You tell them I'm going to do all sorts of weird shit backwards. That, carmen, don't go messing with our heads and ordering different mayonnaise and hiring new fucking bras without talking to me first. This is your brother's house, okay? Yeah, remember I was running it fine without you. Why didn't he leave it to you then?

Speaker 5: 59:09

I mean just fucking so good. And it doesn't hurt at all that Jeremy Ellen White himself has abnormally large, should-be-buggy eyes but for some reason work Like because he is a short king. He looks up at Ebon and when he delivers that line, it's perfect, fucking perfect.

Speaker 3: 59:30

Just a couple of things.

Speaker 5: 59:31

Ebon is, note perfect for Richie rich like yes so this is one of the things I was gonna say. Some people complain about the chicago accent. That's a little too much of, uh, the super fans, it's bordering, but I get it. Also. There are a segment of it should say, there is a segment of chicago born men who will lean into it at a certain point. So I buy this, I buy it entirely. That's number one. Number two I need to specify the book where the stuff falls out, and Marcus is the one that picks it up. That's the guidebook to Noah, the restaurant in Copenhagen that is world renowned and phenomenal and it which becomes a thing later. So I wanted to mention that. Down and phenomenal and, uh, it which becomes a thing later. So I wanted to mention that. Yeah, good, um, the other thing I want to say, mark, is saying oh, you could throw down is I'm not going to do a point by point comparison, but that is, caesar, you later. That is a little, a little crack in me.

Speaker 4: 1:00:28

The team is finally willing to sort of accept first First believer. I have the same.

Speaker 5: 1:00:36

It's just a touch. I think the other thing, the reason that I love this line so much, is that there is the frenetic pace the fish out of the water, fish out of water. This hoity-toity asshole's gonna come in and try to tell us how to run our place, even though we've been running it through this whole time, like there's all of those elements. The reason why I am so hugely forgiving of everybody in the beginning, it's not just because I believe that their, their characters, are going to be developing, that their paths are going to be, that they get better, but also it is that he points out why did he leave it to me then, like what is underlying all of the interactions and everything happening in the kitchen is a palpable grief because Mikey, who everybody loves, is dead.

Speaker 5: 1:01:28

And so having that become the focal point of their interaction. What Richie is complaining about isn't necessarily the system. What Richie is complaining about is my best friend is dead and I'm sad about that.

Speaker 3: 1:01:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. That's beautiful, boss. That's exactly right, and it's the underpinning of everything, so that you almost can't escape it when you're in this kitchen. So it doesn't matter what you're talking about, you're also a little bit talking about life at all times, yep, which clouds the entire thing. It puts a pallor over the entire kitchen.

Speaker 4: 1:02:02

Right, fascinating, because if you yeah, and I didn't think of it in those exact terms but yes, if you come in and change how we, you know, label the spices, you're saying the way mikey labeled the spices was wrong. Yeah, one and two, you're, you're killing him again. Yes, yep, right, yep, he like we. At least we had the spice rack still. At least we had that. I'm pretty sure I've shared this, but quickly. Yes, hold on, hold on hold on.

Speaker 3: 1:02:40

That's beautiful, I want to call that. That's what. You're killing him again because you're you're removing mikey. Mikey left it that way yes, and not only are? You are at. Yes, you're adding labels to the spice rack, which is not what Mikey did, but you are removing Mikey from Mikey's house. How dare you.

Speaker 4: 1:02:59

Yes, really, how dare you?

Speaker 3: 1:03:00

And I, get how you would experience that Like what the fuck.

Speaker 4: 1:03:04

So there's a story about a widow. I'll tell it quickly. I'm pretty sure I've told it at some point. But a friend went over to help this. You know, widow, you know, like clean up, it's months after you know the husband has died and they're dealing, you know, just trying to be a helping hand. And so they go to clean up the bedroom and as the person who's there to help starts to strip the bed, the widow throws herself across the bed and just bawls, crying Just as like don't, don't, don't, don't, don't. And what they discover is she hasn't changed a sheet since he died.

Speaker 3: 1:03:44

Oh yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:03:46

This is pretty common for people who lose children.

Speaker 3: 1:03:49

They leave the room exactly the way they left it, and it was just so right.

Speaker 4: 1:03:53

So again, like, imagine you leave your child's room like that, like you're describing, which I, you know, have known people who lost children in sweet jesus, um, the pain of that. But like, imagine someone comes in and is like, oh, I didn't like the color and I thought that I would just go ahead and paint it, blah, blah, you might try to kill them, like that is right. So I, I think I, I do love and it's similar to ted lasso and all our favorite things, and wayne and whatever, where I get, coming from the angle from which you are coming, living a life, from living life from your seat, I get where you feel like that, like I get, you know what I mean All of it. Just I, I, I get it. And for people who, I'm assuming, don't do a lot of healing circles, how else do you get it out?

Speaker 3: 1:04:49

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, great point yeah.

Speaker 5: 1:04:52

No, I love everything that you just said about that. I think part of what drew me to the show so much other than the fact that it is again Lip Gallagher and a dysfunctional family in Chicago and that's fucking catnip for me, like Jesus Christ show. What I loved so much about it was the juxtaposition of everyone wanting to feel like they wanted to honor mikey and honor mikey's memory and keep his house up against the fact that they are months behind in bills and can't afford to have beef anymore and we're making shitty pasta to stretch the menu like uh yeah, you want to make sure that you're not insulting mikey and, on the other hand, this shit is fucking broken and needs to be fixed. Like both of those are running into each other with the staff and with carmy and with natalie and how she feels about the place, and that is as much as the interpersonal interactions. That is driving the drama. How do you hang on to something that is important to you when it is also broken and damaging?

Speaker 3: 1:06:03

It's a very good point, and when your lead character is, we tease it. Several times throughout the episode he's got anxiety issues. He feels like he's always fighting off a panic attack at all times. The way they shoot him, they have, um, right, there's certain angles, like there's one, where he looks up, he finds his. You can't find his knife. He's pissed off about it. He actually is a little bit of a baby.

Speaker 3: 1:06:27

He cuts himself on a knife like you guys, all happy, whatever, and then oh yeah, right like and again, he's not perfect, which I like, which is like, yes, right, people that are real, they don't have to be perfect. We don't need a superman, we don't need a white savior. What we need is someone who's real, and carmi is real and he can be a baby and he can be petulant and, and he wants it the way he wants it he's very rigid in many ways. Um, there's a one of the uh was reading about narcissism the other day. There's like 32 different kinds of narcissists and one of them is, I give you guys everything, it's like one of the which is, which is uh, fascinating, um, and probably me, which is terrible, um, but, but, um, there's a reason.

Speaker 3: 1:07:08

I was reading about, um, no, no, I just reading this one book about narcissists, narcissists, and what I want to point out is that, like we say, the specter of Mikey's ghost hovering in the room, the arrival of Carmi, who has his own issues, who's always at risk of just you feel like a breakdown is coming. There's one line with Sugar where he goes I'm okay and it's not. I'm okay, it's like a I am medically okay or I am something. You know something you don't know. At this point, I am in working condition. Yeah right, I'm fun, I'm a functional robot, right exactly right, exactly right, I am right.

Speaker 4: 1:07:47

I, I am in working condition.

Speaker 3: 1:07:49

That's a great way to put that so you have that, you have the ghost, you have uh. You have uh mikey's ghost, you have the uh carmy's. You know whatever's going on with carmy and his anxiety, and then it's the it then then, across the board, it is straight tribalism. So it is us versus them in every sector. Not only it's us versus them when it comes to roles. No, no, we do roles a certain way. Don't come in and tell me how to do it. Every single chef is us versus them.

Speaker 3: 1:08:20

Do not touch my pot. Everybody knows that's my pot, ibrahim, that's her pot or whatever right Like. Even to the point where the items you use to cook in the kitchen are tribal. They are owned by one person or the other and never the twain shall meet. And so that is not. It's very difficult to sort of run an enterprise in Coach's language, when the organization is fighting amongst itself. The big thing is are we going to go Richie's way or are we going to go Carmi's way? At one point, richie says we going to go richie's way? Are we going to go carmy's way? At one point, richie says we're doing this, that's it, and he flicks his butterfly.

Speaker 3: 1:08:59

You know, like right yeah like flicks his things or do bread stays the same, sauce stays the same. Make the fucking spaghetti, that's it. You know, fuck you, you. And so are we actually changing? You have a new sous chef who knows what staging is right. So Karmie has one person that speaks his actual language and she looks at him to say, like shit, like where are we? Like you know, it feels like you're on this seesaw and you never know where the fulcrum is. You never know who's sort of you know which way the winds are blowing and sometimes fulcrum is. You never know who's sort of you know which way the winds are blowing and sometimes it seems like richie lays down the law. You're gonna fucking do this. He's like the big brother, you know, or he, he, he feels like he has more say here, even though mikey left the thing to car me. He knows better, and he, he carries himself from that position right, so that he's like at one point he slams the spaghetti sauce. It's just San Marzano tomatoes in a can.

Speaker 3: 1:09:59

Yeah, I mean yeah, but he slams them, and Carmi's already said this your sauce is gluey. It's disgusting. What did he say? Overcooked and under-seasoned, or something you know like.

Speaker 5: 1:10:09

Over-seasoned. Under-seasoned.

Speaker 4: 1:10:10

Under so over-seasoned.

Speaker 5: 1:10:11

Under-seasoned.

Speaker 3: 1:10:11

Under-seasoned and over-sauced. Whatever it was right, carmi's like, we are not making this. This is a pivotal, key issue that they keep fighting about in the whole thing, and this is where the lines are drawn. Are we going to go Richie's way? Are we going to go Carmi's way? Go ahead, boss.

Speaker 5: 1:10:25

Well, they've been doing things Richie's way. Richie has been a part of the restaurant for 25 years.

Speaker 2: 1:10:41

He didn't think that his career would be ended by being coached by Ronald fucking McDonald's.

Speaker 3: 1:10:44

Bravo, exactly right. Yeah, he's Roy Kent. Oh, he's not anywhere near as charming as Roy Kent.

Speaker 5: 1:10:48

Well, you wait until he's got a couple of beers in him, he'll get there.

Speaker 3: 1:10:53

Listen, the staff likes him. It's not like they say he's an asshole and whatever, but he's always a couple of beers in him, he'll get there. Listen, the staff likes him. It's not like they say he's an asshole and and whatever, but you know he's. He's always holding court. They all go. You know they're kind of like he's their asshole maybe or something like that. It's like when you have a terrible guy on your team, but at least he's on our team, we don't have to.

Speaker 4: 1:11:07

Well, yes, there's that element to him and again, I am in real time. For all I know, in episode two he lops the head off of an old woman. I, right, like I don't know shit, but my sense of him is he's the kind of guy who would fall behind paying his divorce lawyer to help him, right? So even if on some level he's an asshole, he's also something else, right, like why is he here now? Like, all right, cool, he left it to you. Bye, like I'm gonna go get a job someplace where they have this thing called money and they can fucking pay me so I can pay my fucking lawyer, right, but he's not done that. He's here.

Speaker 4: 1:11:53

So that, to me, that makes me lean forward, that makes me ask questions. Why are you here? The? The quick answer but maybe it's my answer to too many questions is love, like. I'm like, if grief is sort of the price we pay for love is the way I've heard it said, which I think is a beautiful sentiment. Yeah, everybody here is expressing love, brought them into this kitchen, including our new sous chef, who is here. Why? Because it was my dad's favorite place.

Speaker 4: 1:12:25

Yes, good point so everybody's drawn to this place by love. Now how that plays out, how they behave, who's telling who to go fuck themselves. Blah, blah, blah. That's all real. But yeah, I thought that, um, that was what I found interesting about the rich characters. I was like, hmm, like you could wash your hands of it now, but you're clearly not, so why? And I just found that fascinating. Also, I think they can talk to each other this way because they both know that whatever ends up getting said in here, they're both going to go out of that cooler and do something that they think makes the place more likely to be a success. They may not agree with each other on what that thing is, but I don't think either one of them could say what they had to say that plainly if they thought the other one would walk out of that cooler, out of the front door, and never to be seen again.

Speaker 5: 1:13:25

Yeah, yeah. So I love that you said everything the way that you did. I especially like the part about how Richie's an asshole. But he's not only an asshole, because there's so many times when it happens a lot with female characters. But it can also happen with this character, where you are supposed to be the thing that is interrupting everybody else's plans and that's the only characterization you get. He is significantly more than that. I also like that you said that what is drawing them to the restaurant and keeping them in the restaurant is love, because love is not always fun or nice or good like oh god we have this idea.

Speaker 5: 1:14:09

Oh god, no, oh fucking absolutely not like.

Speaker 4: 1:14:12

Go on, but and I'm.

Speaker 5: 1:14:14

I am not even talking about like dysfunctional, abusive, toxic love, which I have a whole thing about how we shouldn't say that people who abuse others don't love them. That's not exactly true. It's weird. It's more complicated and difficult than that. Sometimes the fact that I am joined to them or anchored to them, sometimes in some cases, through this thing that we identify as love, isn't fun. I don't feel great about that. I don't love it. It can feel like an obligation. It usually doesn't. I do enjoy everybody that I love so much that usually it feels fine. But this is one of those instances where we are watching people who love each other and are having the worst period of their lives.

Speaker 4: 1:15:01

Yes.

Speaker 5: 1:15:02

And part of it is because they love each other that things are so bad Like. This is also part of the overall relationship that not enough songs and TV shows and rom-coms acknowledge. Sometimes being in love fucking sucks.

Speaker 4: 1:15:17

Yes. So, man, that was like yes to everything, and and I, and I love the maturity of what you just said, right, because we tend to go, oh, love, right, like even the way we say love oh, I'm in love, yeah but I'm like sometimes. I mean, I know for a fact there have been times that daphne has wished to god she didn't love me, I'm sure oh my god oh, this fucking guy already you know, like all of us have you know,

Speaker 4: 1:15:52

what I think we can all agree loving you is fucking excruciating um no, but you know, so I love it.

Speaker 4: 1:15:58

You, you point that out and the difficulty of it, because I think that's the richness of the best stories, right, like that.

Speaker 4: 1:16:09

We do do that. I'll bring a silly example and I I did have something I wanted to point out about um karm, but a silly example uh, my, my sister's in town and so it was last night, last night after graduation. So we come home and I mix up a couple drinks and I used to be a bartender, so I usually can, like, look at a bar and a kitchen and be like, well, if I take this and put it with that, like we didn't have a plan, so I'd make this like frozen drink, whatever. And I ask everyone, as I will almost always do you want to drink? You want to drink, you want to drink because I'll make it. You know, I'll make for everybody. And daphne says, no, I'm, you know, blah, blah, I'm good, whatever. As I'm now wrapping up blending it, she goes if you could just give me some in a little shot glass and this goes back to the earliest days of our relationship, where she'd be like can I have some of your french fries?

Speaker 4: 1:17:03

I'd be like, no, you cannot. Here's why. Because that lady who came over here with the notepad you tell her things you want to eat and then she goes back there and tells them to cook it, and then they bring it out here and you eat it, and I don't know why you told her you didn't want French fries, when now clearly you do. So this is like a long evolving. She has totally worn me down. I'm no good anymore.

Speaker 3: 1:17:30

She's a grazer coach, you got to know this by now. I have a daughter like this I just make extra because I know she won't want it until she sees it or smells it, and then she'll be like oh, actually She'll tell me no three times. I think you're hungry, no. I'm not hungry. She'll give me attitude. I just set up like what's the whatever? And I'm like, and then I'll make it. I put it on the table. She's like, actually, and I'm, this is coming.

Speaker 5: 1:17:54

This is the we can get you your own bag. Have I mentioned this before?

Speaker 4: 1:18:01

Yeah, do that. We can get you your own bag. Early dating days Craig and.

Speaker 5: 1:18:09

I were grocery shopping and I said can I eat some of your Cheetos? He's like we can get you your own. We have the money, they're right in front of us. I was like but I only want a few.

Speaker 4: 1:18:24

He's like we can just get you your own band. So, yeah, maybe it's, maybe it's a woman thing, I don't know. Yeah, sometimes, yeah, there's something about it with the but but that vibe, so like, where you just are, like, but we have done this routine so many times that I shook my head and then she's like no, don't worry about it. And I was like no, no, no, no, no, I got you, I'll pour, I'll pour you some, right, but we've done this dance. But that's love too. Like, does it drive me crazy? Kinda. But also she's the woman I love, like I'm not gonna. What am I gonna like? Actually be like, fuck you, you can't have two ounces of this drink, I just mixed, like it all. So I like that idea of being aware that sometimes it's not even that, it's not love when you don't feel the warm fuzzy. It's just that that when you really love somebody or in a real relationship with them, it's more complicated than that yeah, you have to get the root.

Speaker 3: 1:19:12

Listen. This is. This is all over this episode. It is the rules of engagement clash. So when I hear boss say you can get your own bag, my hackles go up. I don't like that. That to me seems selfish. But what I?

Speaker 3: 1:19:28

know about the boyfriend, because I like sharing. So I have this weird thing, and I don't know what it is my little sister and it was my little sister, now my daughter like to drink out of my drink more than they like to have their own drink, and I love it. It makes me feel that's so funny, I don't know what. It makes me feel close or something like where they'll they literally have a drink in front of them. It's not like they're, it's not the same thing, it's not like oh, we both have water, drink your water. It's not like that, like their water's done rather than get another water or whatever the crap. And I never mind, I I make, I like it. I'd like it Cause I like sharing. And if boss says so, one way to look at it is yeah, we have enough money to get your own Cheetos right. Another way to look at this I, oh, but I actually cyborg. So she's saying I actually want three Cheetos, I don't want the whole bag, I don't want. And so then you have to bend for that and some people can't and it's OK.

Speaker 3: 1:20:24

I'm not trying to insult Craig. I'm not saying that. I'm saying my natural inclination is oh, I prefer sharing. That's not Craig's natural inclination. So it's fascinating when these rules of engagement sort of clash and inside of a kitchen, I mean you see there's the tight quarters are crazy, like when I'm watching Sid make family right and you see her like giving looks to people because she's like where the hell am? I? Like what is happening, like you know, like with Tina, is so territorial and she's so mean spirited about certain things and the place is a mess and they're trying to suss out their sort of things. I wanted to say that there's a moment where Carmi tries the family for the first time. It's just off to the side, right.

Speaker 5: 1:21:17

And do you?

Speaker 3: 1:21:17

remember what he says boss, that's fire, yeah, that's fire chef. And I was like, okay, it was such an interesting beat for me because I'm like, okay, so this is the only, first of all, who cares. She could have given she's going to serve this to the entire group, so the whole staff is going to try this. But she knows he is legit and even though they've worked at whatever places, this is the first time he's seen her work like up close and personal and he doesn't say like pretty good, I would added more whatever he's like, that's fire chef. And he's out like and that is such approbation from a chef of his caliber.

Speaker 3: 1:21:59

If you cook something as a chef and then a James Beard award-winning chef says the word fire in relation to it, that is like a career-defining moment and we gloss past it because we don't have any time.

Speaker 3: 1:22:12

We have no time to do that.

Speaker 3: 1:22:14

But now it's like this okay, it's like she has learned a certain way of operating, a certain way of being a chef that he can appreciate because they sort of have the same rules of engagement around the kitchen, but then still they're strangers in a strange land because the you know, the prevailing thought is like a sandwich shop, and you can't fault the people for being territorial or being resistant, because when you say, hey, we gotta, we gotta shake things up a little bit, what you're saying is, uh, without, without intention, intending to say it is hey, you guys got to step your game up a little bit, you know. And so then it reflects your idea. If you see yourself as hey, I've been coming here, I'm making no money, you know, I don't even know if mikey missed two paychecks last month, whatever, and I gotta put up with this. And all of a sudden, I'm not a good enough fucking chef for a goddamn sandwich place, you know, I mean, like I didn't sign up for this, I thought I was making italian beef and pasta. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3: 1:23:11

And now we got whatever and I, I um again. Uh, at some point I hope I get to bump into chris and and talk to him about this, but it has this anthony bourdain sort of chef. I think so much of our, of our culture in the, in the cooking world, has been, has been shaded by bourdain because of his honesty and he was like a bad boy of the kitchen, you know, and it's like the way that they've chosen to portray the, the chefs like the language is very contemporary, it's very modern language and it's it's up to date and it's not like it's not your grandma's cooking show. You know what I mean. It's like super fast, you're expected to keep up. I'm very sorry if you don't like quick cuts.

Speaker 3: 1:23:56

This is what it's like when you, when you watch this, it gives people the false impression that they are a chef. You know what I mean. Everyone comes out of they watch the bear and all of a sudden they're like well, I'm gonna make, I'm gonna, and you're like whoa, whoa slow down, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I stayed at holiday and whatever they were expressed last night.

Speaker 3: 1:24:13

So you know I you know it's that.

Speaker 3: 1:24:16

It's that thing where you think you're a chef because it you get so immersed in the show that you feel like you're. You're picking up on tips and again, the, the dynamic um of, of clashing cultures, of clashing ways of operating, are where great, you know, drama comes from and they milk every little, they. There's this prevailing thought sometimes when you deliver a script where they'll say, okay, great, carmy's got some anxiety where. But does richie have to be like actively getting divorced, like that's a lot, that's a lot. And does sugar have to be like not going to come into the like why is everybody fucked up? That's a lot for an audience to try to wrap their head around. And even coach said coach, who is a student, the masters in film studies and right Master of fine arts and and a Yale grad, says you know, I'm going to watch this again because they expect an audience who is willing to go, go to the lengths.

Speaker 3: 1:25:19

Right, it's, it's like a it's almost like a in the in the American president. There's this line where it says Americans, being an American, is advanced citizenship. You got to want it, bad, you know, and so it's like oh, it's, that's the type of viewership that it demands for the bear. And one of the things coach said before he started watching was like I've heard people say've never heard. He's like or maybe it was boss, I forget which one. He said this but said uh, I've. There are two types of people when, with regard to the bear, there are people who have seen the bear, no, people who love the bear, and then there are people who haven't seen the bear yet. So we don't often hear oh, oh I didn't like the bear right.

Speaker 4: 1:25:59

Absolutely. But it's not something you're going to watch while you're folding laundry, right? You know what I mean. Like some shows and I don't say it as an insult some shows, you know, they're kind of relaxed, whatever, you can pretty much follow it. All right, this person came in, they need to go. There's a whole misunderstanding, got it. But no, there's a lot going on here. Sometimes you're hearing one thing, but you need to be really truly looking at and seeing what else is going on when that's being said or when you're hearing that thing.

Speaker 4: 1:26:43

Fascinating in terms of the richness here, especially in the context of us talking about Ted Lasso and even Wayne, behind that, the different kinds of leaders we've seen, and there's the whole, which is much more of the Ted Lasso let's call it branch of the coaching tree. That's like they won't care. They won't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Right, that it's you. Coach people, not the game, not the sport. That's advice that I was given by one of my coaching mentors coach the kids, not the sport, all that kind of stuff. And though we know that the truth of the matter is you can do that, ted, because on the flight over and before that flight and for the rest of our time here.

Speaker 4: 1:27:19

Beard is doing the other part, and part of what I think we're seeing here in terms of karm and his relationship to he is like listen, I know what a false nine is you motherfuckers don't. So shut up and do what I say. And they're all like who are you again? Like, I know they know who he actually is, but you know what I mean like yeah, they're like you don't know me, like that to be telling me that my pasta is bad.

Speaker 3: 1:27:46

What the fuck you know, carmen, he's saying carmen, shades of nate he has well, you know it's funny you say that.

Speaker 4: 1:27:53

But yeah, I think in terms of like, say that. But yeah, I think in terms of like a plus on the, the, the, the, the thing, right. A plus on the strategy, on the game, in this case, the cooking, right. And yeah, not quite there with the people, I mean even the conversation with his sister which I, I'm telling I just found like I am so invent, like I'm gonna be pissed if I have to wait a while because I want to know what the fuck is going on with him and his sister.

Speaker 4: 1:28:23

I am very curious and very invested. You smell like this place. I was like there's a lot going on here. But I say all that because even his communication with her you can see her like when he says thank you and disappears inside and she says you're welcome or kind of mouths it or whatever, talking to the door because he's gone yeah you can see that she's like man loving you is a lot of fucking work yeah, you can relate to that, coach.

Speaker 4: 1:29:00

You just literally just said that and boss said love, love is not easy you know, you can see she's like it's not that I'm going to stop doing it, I'm not gonna stop loving you and I'm not gonna stop trying. But god damn, there's a lot of work. And I thought, oh yeah, that's fascinating. Or even that he couldn't read that crowd. Like if I saw that crowd outside acting like that, I would not go barreling out the door like where are you going?

Speaker 5: 1:29:28

yeah, they are clearly crazy uh since we are at sort of back at this scene where, um, this is where every the video game is called ball breaker. It's not real. It is what they refer to it as, uh, some sort of knockoff of mortal combat that's a fighter and a scroller, which it doesn't make that much sense. It doesn't matter, it's hilarious, uh. So yeah, the things that I wanted to say. Number one everything that we're talking about, the anxiety, the love being difficult, the grief, the just people yelling at each other and, uh, using slurs, I should mention I find the show fucking hysterical.

Speaker 1: 1:30:09

Like people, were upset that it was qualified as a comedy.

Speaker 3: 1:30:12

It is fucking funny like we just watched the scene where it's dark humor. But it's funny, it's, it's humor, but it's funny.

Speaker 5: 1:30:20

It's dark humor, but it's funny. Just as we're talking now. The scene that is playing is when Neil Fack was talking about what an asshole Richie is. It's just because he's sad on the inside and when Richie comes back in, you're going to laugh at that. That's fucking funny. Yeah.

Speaker 5: 1:30:37

I do need to small bone of contention point out uh, richie goes outside and shoots a pistol in the middle of the day in river north. That is the neighborhood that they're in. That is where the b, the original beef, the restaurant that is in chicago that is sort of based on, actually exists. Later in the episode and later episodes they talk about being in river north. You aren't. Whatever shit you've heard about chicago and how dangerous it is and the fucking uh open war, whatever you think happens, number one, it doesn't. Number two you are not pulling that shit in river north in the middle of the fucking week, like absolutely not there, absolutely not. There are cops showing up. There are cops showing up immediately when you shoot. Richie is not going back inside and eating family.

Speaker 4: 1:31:23

That's funny. He is being arrested for illegally discharging his weapon.

Speaker 5: 1:31:26

That's funny.

Speaker 4: 1:31:27

So I just have to mention that Along those lines, though.

Speaker 5: 1:31:33

Chris Storer does an incredible job of incorporating aspects of the city into a lot of episodes, like Chicago is very much present, and he also does so in a way that is slightly more not art filmy, but a little more theatrical or a little more. They do montages of random people's childhood photos to establish the feeling of it. Um, the first scene after carmy has this dream about the letting the bear off, letting the bear out of the box on lasalle bridge. Um, they cut to the clock and then to him sitting up as the lights come up behind him. Like it it's straight out of a play, like that is how you would start a play.

Speaker 5: 1:32:19

You would have somebody being introduced and that is a play move. That is not a TV show. And so a lot of the things that they do, where they have long shots on the knife on the floor, where they have Marcus in the middle of this looking through a book, like I love this story so much and I also am wildly obsessed with the way that it's told, in that they will take long quiet breaks in the middle of a scene for no reason, just because it works so well, like I'm really excited to get into all that stuff and I want to make sure that we address that right now because especially later it's going to build on it so much and I think it adds a lot to the story.

Speaker 4: 1:32:57

I'm really excited by that prospect. Excuse me, so I will admit that, left to my own devices and with all resources in the world, I would probably make like five hour films that people would be like oh my God, what just happened, right. So I I admit that sometimes limits are helpful. That said, I think often when I watch shows that I find to even be a b plus instead of an, a part of my issue is oh, I get it, you had to do it like, you had to follow the rules, so you, like you knew you needed this scene, but then the whoever the editor or the producer or the studio or the network or whatever said to you well, the episode's 31 minutes and we need it to be right. And then so you now have like a truncated version of the scene that kind of does what you wanted to do, but kind of doesn't, because you needed more room and I do.

Speaker 4: 1:34:03

It's funny. I didn't think about that in terms of the shot of the knife, but I could 100 percent hear the conversation of someone going why are we sitting on that knife for so long? It's a knife. We saw the knife moving on, but it was right here emotionally, like I didn't think about that specifically, but when you said it, when you described it, I was like yeah, absolutely I felt myself with him and processing and like what's going on here and like that's a bit of a chaotic thing that his knife is like under. You know, all those things work, but I don't think you would be quote allowed to do them in certain settings.

Speaker 3: 1:34:46

Yeah, no, no, you're absolutely right coach. Oh, go ahead, boss.

Speaker 5: 1:34:51

Sorry, just to tie together all of my interests, the fact that you said that sometimes that you want to do a five hour movie that nobody would watch, the fact that you said that sometimes that you want to do a five hour movie that nobody would watch. The national did an art exhibition in an installation, maybe whatever you want to call it. They played a song, one of their songs, that is called sorrow. They played it on repeat for six straight hours and this was, I swear to God, six hours of a song called Sorrow and the movie that is called A Lot of Sorrow, and I'm trying to find the artist's name. He actually came up with this idea and where it was to be played. Oh, collaboration with Icelandic performance artist Ragnar Kjarkitsson. Sorry if I'm obviously butchering that, but yeah, no, so that's. This is what my life is. You would make five hour movies of just shots of knives and my favorite band just plays their song Sorrow over and over again.

Speaker 4: 1:35:50

See, and I find shit like that interesting. I think I've shared, like you know, when I was first introduced, like to Abrramovich, who's a famous performance artist who I knew nothing about, but then, like as I will, headed down a little rabbit hole on that one. But I, I, just I I get why most people are like I don't care to sit and watch. You know, there was an installation I saw at the broad here in los angeles museum here in los angeles and it was these people. They walk into a house, this old house, their cameras set up in the different rooms, they play instruments and they're each in their own. One person's in the fucking tub strumming a guitar, I think they play this song. They wrap it up and they all go walking across a goddamn field and there's screens all over this room. You're in and you can watch from different angles and you can take different and I can see where the average person you know is like Orlando Bishop needs to be medicated far more heavily. Like why, what is that? Like what the fuck is happening?

Speaker 5: 1:36:55

More than he currently is.

Speaker 4: 1:36:57

Obviously we're not there yet on the meds, but what like? I found it fascinating. So anyway, I, I do think. But I could see myself, not even being a fan of the national you saying to me hey, um, this is happening and me being like I'll go just because I've never sat somewhere and had somebody play a song for six hours before. And that's interesting. Like what the fuck's that like?

Speaker 5: 1:37:25

So anyway, You'll need to be medicated in other ways, I'm guessing. Oh yeah, I thought that was a given, I still haven't watched it because it's six hours.

Speaker 4: 1:37:35

That is a long goddamn time to do anything Six hours man. I could watch two football games and they'd still be playing Sorrow.

Speaker 5: 1:37:43

Yeah, I sleep for six hours and that is it. There is nothing else I do for six hours straight. Jesus.

Speaker 3: 1:37:51

Well, to wrap everything up, we put it in Ted Lasso terms. When we first meet Ted, he is more evolved than wayne or carmy, in the way that he's like more aware of his limitations or he's learning about them, and he has. He has partnered up. He knows that he needs beard. He knows that no man is an island. Um, as we watch wayne, uh, we see that wayne is looking, you know, thinks he's an island, until he meets dell and then realizes shit like you know what I mean. And then when he sees his mom, he, he is, he gravitates to her, looking for, you know, some, some sense of security and what his team might look like there. Ted knows he's got to build a team.

Speaker 3: 1:38:36

Carmi, you know, he is an island of his own making, except that it's like if Ted Lasso was in the Star Wars trash compactor. He is literally. What a win looks like for Ted Lasso is maybe not getting relegated his first season. What a win looks like for Carmi is they will be able to buy meat tomorrow, right? So he is the. He is in a pressure cooker and has to navigate all of the interpersonal stuff, has to build a team for lack of a better term um, with the most like high pressure situation imaginable, uh, where where there's no natural. It's not like. It would be like if everyone was Roy Kent in AFC Richmond and they're all like. You know we don't buy this clap and I know on some level. You know people were skeptical about Ted as well. But Karmie comes in and it just seems like everything he does is nails on a chalkboard to everybody else and he still has to figure out a way to open the doors tomorrow. Go ahead, boss.

Speaker 5: 1:39:44

I'll only say that close to the end, one of the last scenes when they are sitting down to eat the family meal, are rituals that they say what they're grateful for and they all mention something. A ritual is that they say what they're grateful for and they all mentioned something. And even in the middle of the abrasive, it turns out that Chicagoans value a level of honesty that other places don't appreciate. So we will tell you exactly what we think about you because we care about you. So even Tina, who is very much that, says I'm grateful for all of you assholes. Like I'm grateful for everybody here, even in. Like I'm grateful for everybody here.

Speaker 4: 1:40:18

Even in the middle of it. I loved that. She said that I get Tina's character. I mean, I get that character who is, like fuck, you Come get something to eat with me. Like what are you? Yes, but I get it. I get, yes, I know that person, I have been friends with that person and they are amazing. They will give you the shirt off their back as they call you every fucking word and you're like what's happening right now? But they, so I get Tina, I am thankful for you motherfuckers, like okay, okay. I want to toss this in because I know time is a construct, but still we have to respect it. So where was it? Like many alphabets? Anyway, I shifted over to Zava.

Speaker 4: 1:41:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I've bumped into an idea that I'm going to want to come back to. You know, I'm obsessed with this whole idea of the new manhood and these questions that have been asked, and we've dealt with Wayne and we've dealt with Ted and all the other characters in these shows, and I think what just started forming for me is something that right now, rough draft, I'm calling the barbarian gentleman continuum. I'm serious, actually, and I think that what men are navigating and women are commenting on the navigation is sure, men need to be three-dimensional, but there's a two-dimensional component that I see here and it's where will you land on that continuum that you're navigating?

Speaker 4: 1:42:06

When he landed, it was too much gentleman and we had to see him get far enough to say hey, mom, I got something I gotta say to you. Right, we got right. So he's still, but he's still far enough that he's like I can't believe. I said that Sit down, I'll serve the food, right, he's like I haven't gone all the way over there, but I've traveled a little and we've seen wayne say you know what? I'm gonna go over to that end because fuck all this. And then we have geller going. No, you don't belong all the way over on that end. I get that. You're, you know, got a lot of that to you. But come, come closer, come, come. Come a little closer down the gentleman end where I am.

Speaker 4: 1:42:58

I think that there is a thing here about a balance and I don't suggest, and actually I would say emphatically, it is not a fixed balance, point. If you're a man, we have decided that for the next decade the optimal balance is 57% barbarian and no, I actually think even for an individual person, this situation may call for 90% barbarian. This situation calls for like 98% gentleman, you're taking care of a baby. You can probably give the barbarian. Taking care of a baby, you know, you can probably give the barbarian a bit of a fucking rest. I'm gonna work on this some more Until those bastards start teething.

Speaker 4: 1:43:47

Then you gotta you know, Then they're on their own. That's what I always say.

Speaker 3: 1:43:53

When we finish episode one, we see after Richie literally saves Carmi from a beatdown, he now has the upper hand, status-wise, uses it to demand that Carmi makes the sauce, grabs him behind the head hey, like a paisan, and smashes the cans into Carmi's chest Make the fucking spaghetti. We see Carmi thinking about that. We get the beat with Marcus where he says what does he say? You can throw down, or what does he say?

Speaker 5: 1:44:35

Wow, that was white, you can throw down.

Speaker 3: 1:44:43

I believe he says throw down, which is a vernacular of the streets uh per se, and uh, no, it's, uh, yeah, he's like you can throw down and and that was uh. And that's when, car me, we get a full beat, they take their time with it. He looks back and goes huh, and then we see him, you know, start to saute a little some onions and get the sauce going and as he's cranking hand, cranking one of the cans of San Marzano tomatoes open, he just thinks better of it and absolutely slams, dunk, slam, dunks the can into the trash and we smashed a black and we're out and that is the end of the Bear Season 1, episode 1 system. We will be back next time with the Bear Season 1, episode 2.

Speaker 3: 1:45:32

Listen, I said it was going to happen. I said it, coach, we're going to get through it. Now, listen, it's going to be easier because this time we had to do all this setup and I know we did it in a very roundabout way, but at least we can sort of um, we can cook at this level. Uh, hopefully, get get through enough of the bear that uh, people are inspired to watch it. It is absolutely stunning. It's a magnificent series full of good people. Um and and it's one of those very, very rare series where you get through season one, you're like, god damn, I hope they don't fuck it up in season two and then they don't and they have bosses shaking their head?

Speaker 3: 1:46:11

no, like they don't. I think season two is the one where they started winning all the awards, so now it's on every. No no no, well, I feel like season two even got better. There are moments in season two that I like took my breath away. I was like, oh my God, certain characters too. Anyway, you just go Holy.

Speaker 5: 1:46:30

We'll get into that. I do know that Jeremy Allen White has won Emmys and Golden Globes the past two years, so, like for both seasons. Also, I would like to say that we are so insidious in our wordplay that you said this is a show you could cook with, and I didn't even need to call you out on it.

Speaker 4: 1:46:48

But Coach and I were both just like yeah, no we caught, boss looked up and I and I just nodded like yep, you got it, you got it. He did say we can cook with you. Nodded like yep, you got it, you got it. He did say we can cook with you, you got it. It absolutely happened. I'm so glad you reported the communication because I was just sitting here going yep, just wait for Coach to finish so you can go ahead and do that.

Speaker 3: 1:47:10

Didn't even know. I said it, coach, where do people find you if they want to find you?

Speaker 4: 1:47:14

Come to the community and check us out, support the show. I know coach. You know coach doesn't like to present it in a way that seems like he's asking for money. But uh, his only fans is a horrific, horrific site it doesn't do well it doesn't, doesn't do very well save him people.

Speaker 4: 1:47:32

So no, if whatever you can do, if it's the three3, if it's the, just become a Buttercup. Support this. We are truly giving you our all. You'd be shocked to know how much work goes into making it. So I get to blather about the Barbarian Gentleman Continuum, which is not a thing which I just completely just made up seven minutes ago. So just support in any way.

Speaker 3: 1:47:59

We're going to explore that. We're going to explore that, Coach. Thank you, Boss. What about you?

Speaker 5: 1:48:06

You can find me jumping into the community site more and more trying to stir up shit, also on threads stirring up shit Also. There it is emilychambers.31 and on BlueSky, brand new Buttercup Jesse, I believe. Julia, julia, julia, shit, sorry, sorry, julia, we have talked. I need to dip back in there and see if you've sent me anything new. I am not ignoring you.

Speaker 3: 1:48:31

She's in the community site now you can jump right in.

Speaker 5: 1:48:34

Then fuck that Blue Sky nonsense, but on Blue Sky if you want to follow me sometimes there.

Speaker 3: 1:48:42

That is Demily underscore Chambers. You're a delight boss, you are an absolute delight. Thank you everybody. Thank you for joining us for season one, episode One of the Bear System. We'll be back.

Speaker 3: 1:48:51

Hands is one of those things that was also a chef Hands, chef. Like hands, hands. Again. Even the vernacular is something tribal that they'd be like why? Tina thinks he's saying Jeff. She's like Jeff. She calls him Jeff instead of chef. It's Jeff. It's like. What are you? Why are you yelling things? There's like four people here. Richie said Like what is happening? Even the fucking language is different. Like how it's so beautiful. What is happening. Even the fucking language is different, how it's so beautiful. It is so beautiful. And it's the beginning of a long journey. We hope that you'll stay with us for the entire thing. Please support your local libraries and the written word. Raise better boys so they don't grow up and turn into Richie, or at least they have the capacity to be more than we see Richie in the first episode. And uh, and and you'll know what I mean more as we get into the story. Uh, but uh. Thank you for joining us and until next time we are.

Speaker 4: 1:49:51

Richmond till. We get an Italian beef. Cause. This is some bullshit.

Speaker 3: 1:50:00

Coach is hungry. All right, we'll see you next time.