The Bear | S1 E2 Part1 "Hands"

What's the missing piece in boys' emotional well-being, and why does it matter? Join us as we challenge the New York Times article "Boys Get Everything Except the Thing that's Most Worth Having," critiqued by Emily Chambers for its perpetuation of patriarchal norms. We'll question whether prioritizing boys' emotional needs genuinely addresses systemic issues. Coach Bishop joins the conversation, offering a nuanced perspective on this topic, especially within the black community.

We then shift our focus to the captivating flashback scene from "The Bear," exploring the stark contrasts between high-end kitchens and everyday life at Mr. Beef. Coach shares his own experiences journeying from Flatbush to Yale, drawing compelling parallels to Carmy's character arc. We also discuss "Black Table," a documentary that strikes similar chords in navigating different worlds. Our analysis continues with the character Stringer Bell from "The Wire," delving into themes of identity, ADHD, and the power of perception in shaping reality.

In the latter part of our episode, we explore leadership, grief, and the cultural divides in culinary training. Drawing insights from "Ted Lasso" and Carmy's struggles in "The Bear," we emphasize the need for empathetic leadership and clear communication. We end on a spirited note, celebrating the richly detailed storytelling of shows that demand our full attention. From the pressures of upholding legacies to the intellectual engagement these narratives offer, we invite you to reflect on the broader societal challenges we face. Tune in for a blend of critical examination, personal anecdotes, and engaging media analysis.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso Talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the Lasso Way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 3: 0:39

Okay, welcome back, beautiful people. Today we are discussing the Bear, season 1, episode 2, hands. I am your host, coach Castleton. With me, as always, is Coach Bishop.

Speaker 4: 0:51

Who's motherfucking cigarettes at ease.

Speaker 3: 0:54

We're going to find that out. Coach, and with us is our boss, Emily Chambers.

Speaker 2: 0:58

I promised that this would be a quick dismantling of the patriarchy, but I need to revisit the New York Times article that Castleton mentioned two episodes ago, and I'm going to be gentle, I promise I'll be quick and nice. The article is called Boys Get Everything Except the Thing that's Most Worth Having. Now I did not care for the article. It is not for me and usually I would say it's not for me, but I understand it. I had problems with this one Partly.

Speaker 2: 1:30

I don't care for how she constructed her arguments. I don't think she has enough evidence. I think that she isn't doing research so much as she is talking to boys and then putting down her thoughts because she also is raising boys. It's an opinion piece, it's not a study. I had those issues with it.

Speaker 2: 1:48

The biggest issue I have with it is that at the end, what she says is we need to acknowledge boys' feelings, to talk with our sons the same way we do our daughters, to hear them and empathize, rather than dismiss and minimize, and engage with them as fully emotional beings. I don't have a problem with her saying that we should do that. I have her problem with her saying that we should do that for boys because they are suffering Because society changing itself to cater to boys' needs is the patriarchy she's saying. We need to change things to make things better for boys. That's what we've always done. We've always done that we have 100%, always catered to the needs of men, even while punishing them for expressing their needs, because patriarchy can allow us to do both.

Speaker 3: 2:38

So Well, thank you, boss. I think I know a little bit more about the patriarchy than you do.

Speaker 2: 2:43

Sure.

Speaker 4: 2:48

No no, no, no, no no because I really was going to be foolish, so go ahead no, please, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 3: 2:56

Yeah, go ahead, go ahead boss no, I totally we're listening I it.

Speaker 2: 3:01

Uh. We have, over the course of written history, ping-ponged back and forth from. Men are the only ones who have a deep enough understanding of their intellect and moral fortitude in order to understand emotions. That was ancient Greece and parts of the Middle Ages where only men could feel things. Only men could feel things like this is Achilles throwing a fucking tantrum and dragging Hector's body around the walls because only he could truly understand what loss was. And now we're to a point where men aren't controlled by their emotions. If we move what we think men in relation to their emotions are, that's not changing patriarchy. That is adjusting so that we could adapt to whatever we currently say it is. It is about changing the idea that everyone should be adjusting to men rather than men should be learning how to do this shit.

Speaker 4: 4:04

And so I'm gonna make a point that really takes us up to 10 000 feet, not so much because I'm smart, but because that is the only distance from which you can, uh, not tell that I don't have any earthly idea what's being discussed. So, no, no, so seriously, I did forget to read the article. I do apologize. Oh no, no, no. What I'm hearing from you and it's very interesting to me is that centering boys, slash men is in itself such a problem that working to find a solution to the current state of society that continues to center men can only lead us to more of the problem we've got Right. So that's like it wasn't Einstein who said the the, the level of thinking that caused the problem, will not produce a solution. I believe that it's something like that, and so I think that's what I'm hearing boss say is like whatever shall we do about the boys, boys, boys, boys, boys, right, like it's like the fucking marcia, marcia, marcia of human history, and it's so. I I I find that interest. I do need to read it. I know I fucked around in the beginning joking about not having done the reading.

Speaker 4: 5:36

Also very much true about my educational experience, but, um, I I do think that's an interesting thing to consider, and I remember when Obama was in office, there was a lot of critique, including by one leading voice in African American studies who happened to be my ex-girlfriend, which was sort of interesting to be. Like sounds a lot like shit. You used to say to me but anyway, but no, but she was like you know why are we creating this whole thing for black boys specifically? And there's definitely this vibe that happens in the black community where, specifically, where there's all this like ringing of hands of you know what they're doing to our black boys, and we have to take care of our black boys. And I think a lot of black girls and women over the years have said variations of what you're saying, which is like I don't think paying more attention to the boys is going to get us out of this mess.

Speaker 2: 6:42

Correct, correct and that is. And like, as castleton said, that is because patriarchy harms both men and boys and girls, and so if what we want to do is actually address the ways in which patriarchy harms men, we need to stop telling men that they should have everything given to them.

Speaker 3: 7:06

Okay, all right, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Hold on a sec, hold on a boss. I love this. This, this deserves its own entire conversation. So what we do is is we try to do it's a sort of a newer thing that we've started to do which is making our specialized recordings for our buttercups who are subscribers in our community, and I want to talk about this more. I really hear what you're saying.

Speaker 3: 7:35

My position will come at it to point out that the boys that are being affected are reporting that they know that they shouldn't be put in front and center because they know they still have it worse than girls do. And that is a. You're shaking your head, no, but that is something that that I have. I've seen with my own eyes. Um, and and and that in the patriarchy, what we're designing for men doesn't necessarily mean that we're designing it for boys.

Speaker 3: 8:13

Anyway, it's sort of an interesting conundrum and, let's say even I'm sure that there's a lot of sort of threads to pick apart from the particular opinion piece. It's not working in its current form and I don't think that sort of not being mindful of what might be happening to boys in the current time, like, let's say, we just punt and we say well, we got to work on the girls first. It hasn't worked to to help the the boys. Well, we got to work on the girls first. It hasn't worked to help the boys first. Let's just work on the girls first, and this generation of boys will just like sort of punt and we'll figure it out, you know once. Then, once we get the girls right, we'll go back to the boys. I don't think that's necessarily going to work either, so but but let's, let's.

Speaker 2: 9:05

Yeah, I want to. I want to discuss all of that in more detail. What I'll also say is what I would argue is not we help the girls first. What I would argue is we de-gender how we're helping both. We don't say we're doing this for girls or we're doing this for boys. We're doing this because it improves society.

Speaker 4: 9:14

And that's what I want to talk about. I don't want to extend this, so I'm not going to, but I will say that I had a conversation that bumped into this very much. I think there is going to be an interesting ongoing conversation, and balance around is the very act of discussing solutions on a gender basis a problem, and I think that's a really. I think that's complicated. I don't think it's as simple as just like all right, no more acknowledgement of gender. Right, like I think it's got. I don't think this isn't as simple as just like, alright, no more acknowledgement of gender. I think it's got a lot going on there. So, anyway, I love it.

Speaker 3: 9:51

I can't wait for that episode, so that'll be next time, one of the things you'll find out people who are joining us to watch the Bear welcome, if this is your first time with us or second time with us. We do do this. We do do this, um, we do we. What we try to do is take things that we've seen inside of shows. We started with Ted Lasso. We moved on to a show called Wayne, which most people are not familiar with, or at least as not as familiar as Ted Lasso.

Speaker 3: 10:16

Um, and now we're on the bear and we try to glean social um cues or social phenomena from the texts of popular shows. And what can we pull out of that? What does it say about our society? What does it say about civilization? What does it say about being human? What does it say about all these things? And then we discuss them and sometimes, when we have more to talk about, then we can get to in a show.

Speaker 3: 10:45

We will make a special episode and and send it over to the buttercups. What is a buttercup? These are the people that surprise, that support us, not surprise us. They all surprise us with their, their, their infinite patience and wisdom, but they, they go to the the description of the show and they support the show and for that they get, um, you know, sort of a community site and uh, and, and you know this, this sort of new dynamic of of custom shows designed for them.

Speaker 3: 11:16

Uh, one thing I will say about this gendered quality in my exploration of the bear online, I have noticed that it is so easy to to find this dynamic in the bear subculture, which is to say, you go to a message board, you go to a thread and invariably you'll find people that don't like carnie and you'll find people don't like richie, you'll find people that don't like whatever, but you don't find it in the way that you find the people that don't like sydney, that you just don't find it that way. And coach is surprised. He's like wait what? And yeah, wait till you, wait till you read some of the mouth breathers.

Speaker 4: 11:55

You know it's funny, you know it's funny I I read so little of the ted lasso stuff I and I think I won't actually yeah, at least until, like the end of season one. I won't because I I'm experiencing it and I don't want to. Yeah, because I didn't read a lot of ted lasso stuff, as you well know yeah, no, for sure.

Speaker 3: 12:15

No, I think that's a good. I think that's a good choice. Um, and iowa debrie, who is lovely, plays sydney is also the same kind of thing People are out to and you know who they are. So you can, it's, you just go.

Speaker 4: 12:32

No, I'm kidding, I am actually a Caitlin Clark fan. So let me just say that out loud. I don't want to derail us, but I don't want to. That joke was for another reason. But anyway, there's a strand, there's a subset of Caitlin Clark fans who seem to be really ardent oddly ardent fans of a woman basketball player, given their allegiances up to this point. But anyway, we'll talk about that another day too.

Speaker 3: 12:59

The former Taylor Swift fans, yeah, but everybody on the show and every buttercup I can confidently say, is a caitlin clark fan. You know, like, like. You know, it's like what. What is there to not like about caitlin clark?

Speaker 3: 13:12

she's fantastic I love her, yeah, yeah, what are we talking about? Um? Yeah, sometimes that's when you know certain, certain members of society watch star Wars and they think they're the rebels, and you're like, but are you okay, let's jump into the like, listen, listen to any speech, okay, we, as we begin, the bear we started last time with Carmi was last. Last episode was was the very first one system. Uh, this one is called hands. It is written and directed by chris christopher store and, uh, we open on car me, who is um in a flashback and coach, you know, this flashback is a far cry. Give, give me your, uh, your, feeling about this scene, knowing what you've seen in the beef. What's it called? What's the name of the place? Boss, it's called.

Speaker 3: 14:16

Chicago Beef right, oh, mr Beef. Is it called Mr Beef? That's the name of the restaurant.

Speaker 2: 14:21

I think so. It's so funny. I'm like, why do I know the name? Yeah, it's so weird, but yes, don't I know the name.

Speaker 3: 14:24

Yeah, it's so weird, um, but yes, you know that's not where they are, coach. And then we get a chiron saying this is new york a year ago. And and what was your feeling about all of this, coach? How did this hit you? Oh, listen, oh wait, wait. Sorry for those people just joining us I'll tell you boss and I have seen the show, uh, several, several.

Speaker 3: 14:42

I don't know how many times you've seen it, boss, but I've been through like half a dozen times myself. Yeah, and Coach is just. We asked him to not watch it, just watch it along with us for the first time, so we could have sort of a fresh take that might highlight some of the feelings that newer watchers are getting. So, coach, walk us through how you felt seeing Carmi in this setting.

Speaker 4: 15:12

So okay. So this immediately set off this whole scene. So to set the scene a bit for those who haven't watched it, just to remind folks what we're talking about. We're in this obviously quite high-end kitchen. We see things being plated. We don't really plate things when we're having Italian beef as such and the sauce broke. Just a level of conversation. That ain't. Why ain't the spaghetti on the menu anymore? That ain't. Why ain't the spaghetti on the menu anymore. And so I immediately had a visceral response to it that in some ways is unique to my experience, because I, I, I, I I've been in that situation of traveling between a rather Italian beefish life and a high end restaurant life. Actually, I was just sharing with boss and coach that I'm in a documentary called Black Table. It just premiered at Tribeca. That in some ways highlights some of this of my experience. So it was all very front of mind And-.

Speaker 3: 16:29

Coach, hold on, Hold on, I'm going to jump in because you won't pat yourself on the back. So Coach is in a documentary called Black Table. We have talked about it. He's alluded to this phenomenon before, or this event in his life coming on before or this. This event in his life coach was um, came up, uh, on the mean streets of flat Bush Avenue, was one of those kids that just you know sort of good at good at, you know very, very bright, very, uh, he's athletic, he could do anything.

Speaker 3: 16:55

He was a leader, um and um. Then he uh, uh got into uh prep school. And so he got. He was sort of dealing with both sides of his existence there, working at the prep, you know, going to the prep school seeing a different sort of life than he had grown up with. And coach stopped me when I, when I get off line.

Speaker 4: 17:15

No, no, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 17:15

Meanwhile carrying around a box cutter at home, it's true In self-defense Then goes to Yale in New Haven, connecticut I don't know if people have heard of that, it's a. It's one of those Ivy league schools, uh and um. Then at Yale there was a uh, uh, this thing I have alluded to, uh. So forgive us if you're not a sports fan, because we started out with Ted Lasso, and coach and I are both huge sports fans boss a little bit bit, but not in the same way that we are.

Speaker 3: 17:44

And I always talk about the importance of a hockey locker room in my life, which is where there are no holds barred. It doesn't matter if you're a superstar on the ice. You get into the hockey locker room and it could be the third string, fourth string, it could be a checking line wing, it could be a defenseman that never plays and you get different dynamic. There's just no, um, no holds barred in a hockey locker room and humor is really important there. Humor plays a big role, so the funniest guys have more status. But it's not like in football. In football locker room, the quarterback still gets deferred to in a football locker room.

Speaker 3: 18:21

That's not how you could be the best player you can be, wayne gretzky, and if there's somebody that can tear wayne gretzky a new one in the locker room, they will, and wayne gretzky will eat it because he has to in the hockey locker room. Um, and coach coach said that this thing, this dynamic, this thing, this table, it was a literal table, right, coach? Was it like?

Speaker 4: 18:42

yeah, yeah, and they talked about it. Yeah, and it was big enough that sometimes we would move tables and it would become like one long tape, like apparent. I didn't know this, but the, the Yale employees, while they appreciated our need for racial unity, were like, oh God damn it.

Speaker 3: 18:59

They moved the tables again, which I thought was hilarious, but anyway go ahead and you and you called this, this table black, table black table.

Speaker 4: 19:05

Yeah, it's a black table.

Speaker 3: 19:06

Yeah, for sure somebody came up with, someone with a huge imagination came up with black table.

Speaker 4: 19:10

There's only exactly hey, uh, what do you guys think about the uh afro surface? Or we could just go black table yeah, how about black table?

Speaker 3: 19:21

well, so it's all the all. It's all the um. Uh, african american students at this one with the one. It's not like they weren't anywhere else, but but there were no white kids at this table right, or yeah, it was definitely the black table.

Speaker 4: 19:34

There were white kids who came and sat with us, but they were definitely white kids who were sitting at the black table, like it wasn't okay, you know, but yes

Speaker 3: 19:41

yeah, um, okay, and so, um, they made a documentary about it years later. And coach, uh, because he's coach and doesn't ever think he's as good as he is, uh, which is why that's how I got him on this podcast for what it's worth. So I don't want him to know, um, but he, he like kind of stole the show and there's a huge reaction to him at the film festival. He was not there to see it because he didn't think it was a big deal. He barely remembers giving the the interview and people apparently, you know, they were saying like hey, it's, you know, it's like nearly impossible to win over a 16 year old, but every time you're on the screen, my 16 year old went crazy and they love you. So, uh, so put this on your coach. You have to give us the details.

Speaker 4: 20:22

Yeah, I will. As I learn more, I'll share and I'll share dates. It just showed in DC this past weekend, tribeca last week. Apparently it's going to be in Martha's Vineyard. So as I get more info I'll definitely share.

Speaker 3: 20:38

There is no place on the planet. I will hazard a guess to say there is no place on the planet. Where will go? I will hazard a guess to say there is no place on the planet where the lessons of black table will become, uh, more obvious than martha's vineyard.

Speaker 4: 20:54

Just just the ideal candidates, yes, well, it's funny that you because yes and that, and that friction, you just like the joke, right? Jokes, humor is always contrast, right? And that friction you just introduced is exactly what I experienced when this came on the screen, like I was like damn, like he knows how this kitchen runs, right.

Speaker 3: 21:24

Yes, yes, yes he knows that. Okay so we're back to the bear and you're talking about Carmi in this New York kitchen. Yeah, and he's in this space.

Speaker 4: 21:33

And so, obviously, whoever's the Don, the big boss, the big chef of all chefs comes in and confronts the person who made a mistake. This person, the woman, had come over and shown him the sauce. He told her do it again. Something broke. You know, I don't, I don't know fine dining like this to to to really speak on what happened there. I know boss can make a mean. Is it Bernays? Was it Bernays sausage?

Speaker 4: 22:05

Right, Okay, that is correct yes, so if you want to get in and help me out on the intricacies of sauce making? Get right on in there.

Speaker 3: 22:14

The character coach of NYC, chef. Okay, this guy, they don't even give him a name.

Speaker 4: 22:20

I didn't know if he was coming back later Do you recognize that actor at all or no? There's no reason you would. Isn't he a science guy? Am I wrong about that? You're wrong about that Science guy. Okay, who is he then? I?

Speaker 3: 22:33

think psychology maybe Boss, who is that? Oh?

Speaker 2: 22:36

yeah, no, no, no. This is Joel McHale who was- yes, it is.

Speaker 4: 22:40

They snuck in by me and I was like I feel like I'm recognizing him and now I'm gonna go crazy trying to think of who is. There's a guy who does a thing with science and food oh, alton brown, that's why, and I was like he looks different, though, like I was, like I was. I was struggling, though, because I was like I know. I've seen this human being.

Speaker 2: 23:01

Okay, I apologize, go on yeah, no, this is Jeff Winger from Community wow. I don't want to speak ill of Joel McHale. I will say that some of his haircuts have given me pause. But Jeff Winger from Community, I love him, and so when I originally watched this scene, immediately had to tweet. Jeff Winger is screaming at Lip Gallagher. I've had this dream before. I love you so much. I'm serious, it's like what is happening.

Speaker 4: 23:34

Don't let your freak flag fly, boss. Don't let me slow you down.

Speaker 3: 23:40

Oh, go ahead, Go ahead, coach.

Speaker 4: 23:41

No, no, no. But the character comes in and is clearly I mean it's such clearly like a hazing moment, right, like whether or not this is being done expertly or needs to be better, or whatever the case might be NYC chef is in Carm's ear as he's preparing the food, telling him that he sucks, telling him that he's stupid, telling him that he hires stupid people, that he doesn't belong there. And what I wrote in the notes is bear, as in Carm, equals Stringer Bell, which I'll explain in a second equals Coach Bishop. Second equals coach Bishop. And the reason, the whole reason I brought up the black table is that when you travel between two worlds like this, especially two worlds that are so different, what happens is you don't belong to both, you belong to neither. And so there's a moment in the wire and without you know whatever, like going too far into that story. But there's a moment in the wire where it just Elvis character, who's kind of got a version of this, where he's, you know, goes to. He's literally in school, like taking college classes to learn, like official business. Meanwhile he's like the brains of, like a drug empire in in baltimore and at one point the, the, the full thug part of the partnership turns to him and says that's your problem. You're talking about being downtown with some businessmen and trying to do a real estate deal. That's a problem. You, a man with no nation. You don't fit in here. You don't fit in down there either.

Speaker 4: 25:38

I don't have the exact words, correct? Wood Harris delivered the shit out of the line backwards, correct? Wood Harris delivered the shit out of the line. And I still remember the experience I'm sure I've shared it before of hearing that line and feeling like Wood Harris had reached out of my television and slapped me across the face. It's like that's what it's like. Yes, but it was a result of being abused in the role. And now, knowing I have ADHD and blah, blah, blah and all the other shit, that now I'm like oh right, and so then I was like deeply unhappy and my brain said, yeah, I'm out of here before my body got the memo and so that was bad. But that, that feeling what he was saying in his ear. People like that know to say that about you. People like that know you have those tattoos for a reason.

Speaker 3: 26:51

You don't think that was just him remembering it that way, Because sometimes we change how a boss is pointing. Oh my God, Wait what?

Speaker 4: 26:57

Yeah, no, no no no, did I say something you agree with? Yeah, let's do it. Let's do it.

Speaker 3: 27:03

Here's the catch coming to take that away, right now Hold on, let's enjoy the cop sounds, because this is for those of you joining us. I used to get so mad about all the ancillary noise and now I've learned to live with it. But also, boss, can we just talk about that? Coach wrote in our notes bear equals stringer bell, parenthetical. Idris elba equals coach, bishop and I. My response to that is obviously, um, uh, you know, richie germavich equals george clooney, equals me, so I think we don't have to discuss it. I just have that george clooney thing, like you must have the idris elba thing, you motherfucker I, I, I.

Speaker 4: 27:48

I am not claiming the handsomeness, no, the debonairness. I'm not claiming any of that. I'm just a man with no nation. It was so cool to see.

Speaker 3: 27:58

Like, oh, stringer bell equals me. I'm like, damn stringer bell, I would. I couldn't, even I could do seven000 degrees of Idris Elba and I wouldn't be able to connect myself via Legos to stringer bell in any way. So that was no. And you make a great point and, boss, talk about how you think this might be, might've played out in Karmie's mind.

Speaker 2: 28:22

So that's the thing I played out in carmy's mind. So that's the thing I I fully believe that that is how new york chef operated his kitchen. I don't know if that's what he explicitly said. Right, what carm could be?

Speaker 2: 28:37

hearing is your tattoos are fucking stupid. You're so slow, go faster, motherfucker. Like if it perspectives are reality, and so in that case, what he is feeling is, in fact, how new york chef was treating him. I just don't know if it was ever this explicit, maybe. I mean, I know that there are plenty of chefs who are real fucking assholes, so it's possible there are also a lot of bosses that are real fucking assholes in a bunch of different ways, thor, so I just I don't. I don't want to make it sound like it's it's. I think that, given the ways that the show sometimes plays with reality and perspective, I could imagine it being said literally, but I also got the like, dreamlike feel.

Speaker 3: 29:25

Yes, and it works both ways. Which is kind of, which is kind of fun and which goes oh man, this, this show can. Kind of. We're only in, we're like what? Two minutes into into episode two and I'm already like, oh man, this show can. It has set itself up in a way where it can you already. If you squint, you can see it either way and make a justification for it.

Speaker 4: 29:52

You can sort of defend either side and each side works. Also. I would put into the mix real quick here that and I don't want to go too far into it because there's an even more stark example of it in a moment but I was aware even here that this show consistently plays with reality and it is not to get too geeky with it. But and and do we have? Um, can we trust? Yeah, what we see can right like is this a reliable narration? In quotes there's not narration to the show, but like this, as we're being told the story, is this like what you're experiencing or is this what happened? And I think you know, for those who've watched enough shows, I think you can tell the difference. But this show feels very much like we go through people's experiences of moments more so than the event of the moment.

Speaker 3: 31:00

It's a profound statement also because, again, in both ways it has an impact on your psyche. So, coach, I promise, I promise, knowing you for how many years I've known you and knowing some of the jobs you've had to do, not knowing at the time that you had ADHD, not knowing how to contend with them, not knowing all the things that were not knowing how to contend with them, not knowing all the things that were giving you a inherent deficit, and also not to make excuses about it. We're not the type of people that I don't think either. One of us, coach, I got for those of you just joining us, I got diagnosed with adhd at uh, 44 years old. Coach got diagnosed at 48, yeah, and boss uh, has not been diagnosed because she does not have adhd. She has a laundry list of awful personality traits, but none of them, um, are um are adhd.

Speaker 4: 31:50

She's safe. She's safe harbor for the uh new the neurodivergent though I will, I will say that much is clear she, she does, she does.

Speaker 3: 31:59

Let us get away with murder, um, but not knowing that does present a challenge, and I know, especially when people suffer with crippling anxiety, that what you hear might not always be what they say. My children I have four kids they all have levels of anxiety. You're welcome. You're welcome you little brats. I'm sure those are my great genes, but no, they deal with. They deal with a like um, a tremendous amount of anxiety, and I will be in situations where I go. That's not what they said. I was right there. They did not say that and they have manufactured a new narrative which is influenced by their, uh, anxiety. So it's.

Speaker 3: 32:44

It's even more poignant when you see the level of sophistication and order in the New York city restaurant. To me it felt horrible. I would never want to work in a place like that. That felt awful, just awful. I was like, I was like I can admire this from a distance. You know, sometimes, like um, you see someone do something and you're like oh my god, like upholstery. I've seen someone take apart a very difficult chair and put it back together and I go oh my god, you have to take the old pieces off, trace them, measure them, factor in how they go back.

Speaker 4: 33:18

I know it is so detail-oriented and I go, did it once in my life and it was didn't go awesome, oh shit no, how could?

Speaker 3: 33:25

I'm like, I am not capable of that, but I, god damn, do I have respect for the people that are. That is, that's like that's magic to me. Um, and so I can, I can, I can look at that new york city restaurant and and be impressed, um, but it doesn't mean we would want to, you know nice place to visit, would want to live there. And then the show very, very clearly is juxtaposing what we know. Carmi has been through with the new and it comprises a series of insert shots of just some hellaciously messy shit at the beef restaurant. What is the? What is the official name?

Speaker 2: 34:04

it so. So on the show, it's the beef. In real life it's mister. Okay, that's what I thought. Okay, it's pretty clearly thinking the beef and I'm like why do?

Speaker 3: 34:11

I think, okay, um, and so it's based on a and a real place boss called mr beef, and this is called the beef, okay, and so you have shots of, you know, eggs uh, egg whites dripping on the floor, splotches of mustard, gross knives it's nasty and then we open with them doing what here, boss?

Speaker 2: 34:36

So they're cleaning, although just to quickly step back, it starts with Carmi wrapping a sandwich. Everything's mayhem and chaos. Nobody's listening to me shouting hands like he's trying to get people to help him out, and they're not doing it. So now it's another cut, another juxtaposition. Everybody is on the same page and doing the same thing and cleaning the kitchen with toothbrushes. Doing the same thing and cleaning the kitchen with toothbrushes, but it is still. None of these have been a model of a functional workplace, regardless of the output that they're giving they do a good job establishing.

Speaker 3: 35:09

like I didn't know what hands meant. I have no idea what the hell that is. I worked in restaurants. I never heard hands we never. I never heard anyone yell yes, chef, ever. Like I worked in I don't know 12 different restaurants growing up.

Speaker 3: 35:21

Yeah, worked in a bunch of restaurants. It's a good way to make money in the off season. When I was out of school I would work there and I did catering in college and was a bartender Coach and I both were bartenders. I'm wondering, if I don't know, what level the movie Cocktail had on you becoming a bartender, but it was integral to none.

Speaker 4: 35:43

Oh, was it Not really? I mean, after I was becoming a bartender, obviously there were the references, but yeah, it didn't have that like, oh, I want to be that when I grow up.

Speaker 3: 35:53

But yeah, it was definitely cool, but did you ever hear Boss? Did you ever work in a restaurant? I forget, I forget. If you ever, you never did.

Speaker 2: 35:59

No, catering, Catering yeah.

Speaker 3: 36:01

I never heard any of this hyper-stylized restaurant speak, but they do a good job and you know right away what he's looking for when he yells hands at the beef and you're like, okay, he has no help and it's just like a stranger in a strange land. You just say, like he, this is not what he's desperately trying to get them to have a system that isn't Mikey's old system but he's. It's falling on deaf ears, coach.

Speaker 4: 36:28

I'll say too there's something Okay when you're teach, when you're leading or teaching, and you don't understand what they don't understand. So I'll give two quick examples, because I think you know what are you? So I was tasked at one point with starting a girls basketball program and, of course, because of the way I, of course, would take on a challenge games start in like five weeks. We don't even know who's going to try out yet. Best of luck to you, coach. Oh thanks, okay, great, would take on a challenge. Games start in like five weeks. We don't even know who's going to try out yet. Best of luck to you, coach. Oh, thanks, okay, great, wow. So literally the first day I have the ball together, I'm like all right, we did this that we talked about a couple of things.

Speaker 4: 37:13

We went over a couple of things. I go all right, so let's, girl catches the ball and bless her heart which is not a phrase I use often but belongs here just starts running with the ball, no dribbling, and it's, and I'm just struck actually I stopped with this one because the other one's really a safe story in another and it just struck me that like oh, I never taught you, yeah, and you need me to teach, like that is we are not starting at. Let's figure out who are the best basketball players we are starting at. I need to teach you what basketball is. Oh, and I think that's part of what Carm's going to learn here, right, or is learning here?

Speaker 4: 38:01

Like hands, hands, hands, like it doesn't even have a fucking meaning. You know what I mean? It wasn't like she was like I don't like dribbling, she didn't know she had to do that, and so that's some of what I'm seeing. Here too. There is resistance, but there's also I don't know what that means. One game I was coaching, I kept yelling go through Cheyenne, go through Cheyenne, go through. And finally she turned back to the bench and said I don't know what that means, and I felt really bad.

Speaker 3: 38:35

I called the timeout. Good job coach. Good job, excellent coach yeah, that's good. Good job coach. Good job, excellent coach yeah, that's good. Um, I uh. This is. This is natural because after watching ted lasso and then watching wayne and seeing the clear clarity of a code, you want to, you want to buck up, car me. And you want to say, like, car me, like, if you give them a little like beep, uh, I was watching.

Speaker 3: 38:57

I always, always allude to women's soccer. I was watching. I always, always allude to women's soccer. I was watching the latest Behind the Crest, which is like a little behind-the-scenes thing they do for the United States women's national team, and I have waxed poetic so far about how one of my favorite coaches in any sport is now the women's national team coach.

Speaker 3: 39:16

Her name is Emma Hayes and she gave this speech, coach, that you would love. She says listen, I've overwhelmed you with information. We're about to go into our first game. You're going to want to try to. You know, really step up.

Speaker 3: 39:29

Everyone here has been unbelievable in getting their knowledge. You play. You will find that you will fall into old habits that are not the things I've prescribed, not the things I've laid out, that you know direction we want the team to go. And I want you to know and there's a pause and I'm like, oh, I want you to know what you know, because, like, what is she? And she's like, that's okay, of course, that's okay, that's human, like of course. You've been doing that for a long time and I've just hit you with all these new things and that's okay, it's going to take a, it's going to take some time. And I was like, oh yeah, I was like I gotta tell coach this, because you want a little bit of that from car me here. You know, he's so put upon, he's so exhausted, he's he is not remotely vibrating at his highest level right now and every imperfection feels like a personal slight and so right, it's like he cannot get past zero Boss what were you going to say?

Speaker 3: 40:28

Were you going to say something?

Speaker 2: 40:30

Well, the only thing you had mentioned the code on Ted Lasso and on Wayne and I think a drastic difference on this show is that everything is soaked in grief. So this is not the same sort of this is a team building show. In the same way, this is not about a group of people trying to figure out how they are going to fuse and work together as one. This is. Every person in the kitchen has experienced a significant loss recently and they are trying to power through with the restaurant through the grief, like I think it's slightly different oh no, you're right it is.

Speaker 3: 41:13

It is categorically different. So so.

Speaker 2: 41:16

So there is that in that. It isn't that you. I am looking at Carmi as a. He hasn't figured out how to reach his highest level of leadership or even his highest level of performance. I'm thinking, honey, you need to go to a therapist. Like sweetheart, my love, I need you to deal with the fact that you are actively mourning your brother and everyone in the. No one in the kitchen is going to be able to move past on a work level and a performance level until that is addressed that's spoken like someone who just does not get the patriarchy that's really funny um it's not how we do it, or bury it down deep, don't talk about it and then ruin everything.

Speaker 4: 41:58

I'm sure it'll be fine if I don't talk about it and then ruin everything. That's the right way. I'm sure it'll be fine. Yes, to everything there, and I like that you said soaked in grief, because one of the things that struck me about, or has struck me over the years when I've had my turns to grief as everybody has their turn to to grieve, rather, everybody gets their turn is how much is the the, the real sort of shock of the rest of the world continuing on as if an atomic bomb didn't just land?

Speaker 4: 42:38

yes I'm like everybody's to go to work tomorrow because my father's dead and what? The fuck.

Speaker 4: 42:45

And I think it's. I love that you said that, because life, you know, people might give you a day or two, you know, to go to a funeral and travel back. Now don't try to take two days after you get back from the funeral. Right, you get a day to travel back and then we expect you back at work and I think, yeah, then things are soaked in grief and they are in the place Like this isn't just like going back to work, like that person used to be here. One thing I'll throw actually comes up later what, why, how Mikey's gone, and I think that that even adds another level of specific grief. We're good, how Mikey's gone and I think that that even adds another level of specific grief. But go ahead.

Speaker 3: 43:22

So they're all cleaning officer and a gentleman style with with toothbrushes and, and you know Carmen's trying to explain. You know it's about attention to detail. You know, back at the French laundry, he references one of these things and Richie is just profoundly unimpressed by all of this. Um, coach, real quick.

Speaker 4: 43:43

You point out like he could give them a little something to me, the coach in me, like if I were coaching him on how to coach this team, because he is the de facto coach, whether he likes it or not. You got to go around the kitchen. Now go, that's what I'm talking about. Come on now. You're right, like I mean, this place looks better than it did last episode At some point you got to work around the kitchen.

Speaker 3: 44:05

You're looking for the buy-in. You got to see it. Later you got to start eating.

Speaker 4: 44:09

But you got to get you know what I'm saying, like you got to you know. Also, encourage the behavior you want to see. It can't all be you. This sucks and it's not the French laundry at its absolute apex. This place ain't going to be the French laundry, so let's create a new thing that we're going for.

Speaker 3: 44:32

And let's congratulate people on their progress. There's a conversation to be had we're not going to have it now, but there's a conversation to be had at how the nomenclature of perceived evolved society automatically, uh, alienates non-members. So it's like a gatekeeping thing, like to say like oh, we have a restaurant called the french laundry. That is the most, that's the easiest thing in the world for a guy like richie to be like fuck you that's. That's a stupid fucking. You're going to name it after a laundromat.

Speaker 4: 45:01

You know, what I'm saying.

Speaker 3: 45:02

But like the perception is yes.

Speaker 3: 45:04

Yes, but anyway, I just think it's. I laughed. He mentions Noma as well and he's like fuck Noma too, like there's just not. You know, it feels like outside of his worldview or outside of his. It's not a sphere of influence, it's, it's his, the perceptive radius of his existence, where he just goes I don't know what the fuck that is. It has no bearing on whether I put food on the table or, you know, put gas in my car. It sounds like made up and stupid and it's just uninteresting to him and for whatever reason, it can reflect on people in different ways, to sort of highlight who they actually are as people, how it sort of how they perceive these things that are outside of themselves. But with Richie it just seems easy for him to do it and it sets up the dynamic and wisely, from a writing standpoint, this show sets up stakes. This show sets up stakes Like this particular episode keeps stacking stakes, one on top of the other.

Speaker 2: 46:05

That's not how you serve steak.

Speaker 4: 46:06

Yeah, I was sitting right there. I was waiting to see.

Speaker 3: 46:13

Just awful, awful, awful, and that sets up that or continues to dive in walk right up to the pun hand in hand.

Speaker 4: 46:30

We'll walk right up to the pun we won't land.

Speaker 3: 46:35

I would be mad, but I beg Coach to sing every time, and he rarely does so, even if it's at my expense. It is beautific. Richie talks about how everything he ever learned he learned at DeVry, which is just a great. Yes, go ahead, boss.

Speaker 2: 46:53

Real quick. Christopher Storer does a great job of representing Chicago. I love it so much. There's a scene in season two that I'm going to talk about a lot, so I will call him out when he makes slight mistakes. He does not mean West Lawrence, he means North Campbell, because the DeVry on Lawrence only opened up a couple of years ago. So Richie did not attend any campus on West Lawrence Nice.

Speaker 4: 47:20

Nice.

Speaker 2: 47:23

Although I should also mention my dad did in fact graduate from DeVry, so I like that he did graduate. He graduated from DeVry.

Speaker 3: 47:32

We get a great Richie talks about DeVry and puts it up on a pedestal and tells him he can do all these things about auto mechanic stuff and maintenance. And there's this little throwaway line when he walks out and somebody says to him did you graduate and do you hear what he says, boss?

Speaker 2: 47:49

Fuck no.

Speaker 4: 47:50

That was brilliant After all that fucking going on and on about it. Fuck. No, I just want to highlight there's a thing about the academic versus the practical, and they do it in just a hundred different ways and I think it's again. My personal history may make it that much more interesting to me of, like, how people talk about things in academia and how, you know, people talk about things when they're just shooting shit and playing with those two things, and I love that you know he's like. Well, let me tell you about the pinnacle of practical shit. You know what you learn when you go to the fry how to fix some shit.

Speaker 4: 48:34

They don't teach you how to talk about it. They don't teach you how to draw a picture of that motherfucker. They don't teach you any of that. They don't teach you how to draw a picture of that motherfucker. They don't teach you any of that. They don't teach you the history of it. They teach you how to fix it. I think that's really. It's clear to me that is going to matter in this story.

Speaker 3: 48:51

That's being told because they've been hammering on that Well said, coach, and I think you're absolutely right. We do get an extended shot of Car me on the floor trying to scrub out what looks like a screw hole to me. I'm like okay, like yeah, I don't know you're gonna clean that, bro, but by himself.

Speaker 2: 49:09

Yeah, he is, he's laboring yes, yeah, after everybody else is clocked out, I also, very quickly. I don't want to go through every beat of the show, but I need to point out that after richie is giving car me, all this shit about fuck you, fuck the french laundry devries better blah, blah. The next shot is them outside having a cigarette together, because that is, that is another one of these things where he car me is the de facto leader.

Speaker 2: 49:35

He is trying to put this team together. He is trying to improve everybody. But also they have known him since he was a child. Yeah, like the reason, I think, that he can't go around and be like oh tina, great job with that toothbrush. It's because tina probably changed her fucking diapers, like she's been around forever. It is a different relationship when you are trying to coach your aunt that is really that.

Speaker 4: 49:59

I love that insight and the dynamic here Because, even if Tina didn't literally right, that's the relationship.

Speaker 2: 50:08

Right, yep, your Mikey's little brother or whatever. She's been around a while. The restaurant itself, I think, has only been around 25-ish years on the show, but I can sort of imagine her being there from day one, that's so interesting.

Speaker 3: 50:23

I did not get that read so I'm going to look for. Yeah, I got like that. He didn't want that, richie didn't want to take lessons from, but the rest were Johnny come lately's and yeah, that's interesting, that's an interesting. Okay, I'm going to be mindful of that Now.

Speaker 4: 50:39

I'm, you know, an episode and 10 minutes in. So my impression, you know, whatever green salt, but I I thought it was more of the previous. I thought like you could pull tina aside and she'd be like oh jesus, are you kidding me? Then, then, for his fucking prom, I, I'm the one who had to run across town to get this kid a fucking tie. That was the vibe I got. I'll learn more.

Speaker 3: 51:05

Yeah, we'll learn together, because I didn't have that read. Carmi ends up going home and, in a scene that I love, he cooks himself beef bourguignon. No, oh, sorry, no, no, he does not do that. What does he do, boss?

Speaker 2: 51:22

He has a PBb and j with a coke and some doritos. Yeah, it doesn't specifically say doritos, but it's doritos but.

Speaker 4: 51:27

But what I? This is again that practical and academic, because the way and I shouldn't use academic, I'm not using quite the right word, but it's sort of the highly stylized. They shoot the making of the PB&J in the way you would shoot the making of a beef bourguignon, right, and so again, I think they're like hammering that point. It's this you know, chicago, italian beef rubbing up against Michelin star shit, you know. Anyway, I really noticed and liked that.

Speaker 3: 52:02

I will point out Good, I'm glad, coach. I will point out that that, more than any other thing, is what one professional chef's over to the show, because they were like yep, that's it. We don't make any money, we have no time, I'm not going to go home and cook, I'm going to eat shit and pass out and wake up and do it all over again. I don't have a life and I don't have any money and I don't have any food at home. And you know, it's like it was like amazing to see like the outpouring of support, like that was something everybody seemed to identify with. Uh, in the kitchen, in the kitchen world, that's exactly right. No way am I going home to make a steak.

Speaker 4: 52:43

Also I'll toss in, and I felt like this in my own life and I don't say it like boo-hoo me, but just the emotional reality. If food can be a stand-in for love or certainly for care, there's something deep to me about the person who makes sure everyone is fed and doesn't eat, and I think probably in a lot of families we can think of somebody who has done that or does that. And I think it's significant that here's this guy figuring out how we're going to turn out this food and he is surrounded by food. Like at some point could he not have set aside a fucking sandwich for himself? But he won't and he hasn't, and he's not going to do it tomorrow either. And I think you know, just like the shoemaker's children go barefoot kind of idea, I think that, um, you can't pour from an empty cup. At some point he's going to have to eat. I thought it here and I think it holds up through the story.

Speaker 3: 53:49

I think that cuts both ways. Coach, it's a great point, but it cuts both ways. Some people could see that, as the priest from Les Miserables giving Jean Valjean, I don't have any candlesticks, as I gave them away. I need them less than this person.

Speaker 3: 54:04

There's certainly that take on it, but there's also a uh, god complex, slash martyrdom quality that I think is crazy, unhealthy and that I grew up with in my family, like uh, when I grew up, uh, where we had certain members who were like, no, I'll eat last or I won't eat at all, and I remember having dinners where we'd all sit there except for one person who would stand Plenty of chairs. Going to touch on that very specific point, uh, later on in this particular episode, um, it is becoming clear to me uh, I'm going to be transparent and say that, uh, I was hoping we'd do this in one and there's no. I'm looking at our numbers, uh, and there's no way we're gonna do it one. There's no, there is no prayer unless, uh, I mute boss and coach and just drone through all of the rest of the show.

Speaker 2: 55:06

You think that's going to get it done. If I could have muted boss by now.

Speaker 3: 55:09

You know this would have been a different podcast. I do not have that power, sadly.

Speaker 4: 55:16

I just want to jump in and let coach a little bit off the hook and say that he specifically told me, and I'll say me, he said it to us, but he was talking to me. He's like dial it back. And I was like, by dial it back, do you want me to tell you an in-depth story about a high school girls basketball game that happened once that nobody gives a shit about and nobody was at? Yeah, okay, great, uh.

Speaker 3: 55:39

So I apologize I apologize to him and to the listeners no, no, no, god, god, uh, there's so many other things. You should be apologizing to me that I, I totally do not accept that whatsoever.

Speaker 3: 55:54

Um, no, no, listen, coach. One of the great things about about uh, uh you and about what I like about this podcast and what I like about these shows, is that the tendrils of how it affects real humans in their real life. It's palpable. And so there's a reason why the Bear was a hit, was a breakaway, overnight success, overnight success. And I think it's sneakily it's funny because we talk about Ted Lasso. Ted Lasso was another breakaway hit. Wayne was not. Nobody knew about Wayne. They still don't know about Wayne.

Speaker 3: 56:33

I'm always going to find those gems and try to share them with everyone because I think it's important and I hate when people miss great stuff. But Ted Lasso and the bear were both huge hits. But in the way that Ted Lasso was instructive, I think uh at at a certain point that you know boss would would tend to agree with me on this that at a certain point it was so aware of itself that it ended up changing a little bit of the of itself, that it ended up changing a little bit of the of the authenticity of it, whereas uh, the bear is is so brutally authentic that it demands a level of um, uh sort of focus and commitment from the audience that you rarely see in shows. I think it's one of the most flattering shows ever made.

Speaker 3: 57:22

It's right up there right Based on how much it expects from its audience it is. It does not baby you at all and I really appreciate that as a viewer. It doesn't spell things out, it doesn't explain them, it expects you to know some level of human information so that you can put two and two together, um, on your own. And it doesn't spoon feed you. And that, among an absolute laundry list of other phenomenal qualities of the show, is why this is our next show and why we're talking about it.

Speaker 4: 57:55

I often avoid this brand of comparison because I think it gets into making some art somehow loftier, more important than other, and I don't agree with that. Anyway, I don't fundamentally agree with that, but I do think, in terms of like texts and what we're accustomed to encountering, this feels like a good novel on the front of what you just described. That a lot of times, like I said, remember, when I, you know, in the first episode, of course you'd remember that I said this because I'm just so deeply memorable. I don't know why I started it by saying that, but anyway, oh it was only last episode.

Speaker 4: 58:34

What a fucking weird, foolish thing to say.

Speaker 3: 58:36

But anyway, listen, you're like the head of Blacktable, obviously.

Speaker 4: 58:46

Exactly, exactly, exactly exactly as as as orlando bishop uh star of black table.

Speaker 3: 58:49

So I think it was the great orlando bishop of black table success who said on our last episode what?

Speaker 4: 58:55

the fuck. All right, so but it, it. You can't fold your laundry and watch this show. Even watching it now and trying to react, I was keeping running notes they can tell you in the chat because I was like there's a lot going on here. This feels like a book. Feels like a book when I read books and the reason why physical books are dangerous for me, because I can tear a book apart and they'll be writing everywhere and there'll be notes and fucking arrows and then like pick you know, and, and that's what this feels like to me I was constantly noticing something and being afraid that even typing, I was to look away at the wrong second and miss something I really ought not miss. So it's just got a certain density and I love that. You said it's flattering. I feel like this is quote unquote TV. We know TV as such is not on TV anymore, but I feel like this is TV for smart people.

Speaker 3: 59:57

Yeah, it has that feel to it, even if it's not. It demands that you give your best and I appreciate that. And as we follow Carmen to his, his, his dream state, he, we see him doze off in front of the TV watching a baking show and we get like a real high intensity um montage of uh, of cooking, you know sort of uh imagery. And then boss, what happens here.

Speaker 2: 1:00:28

Uh. So they're cutting back and forth, him cooking Um also the ticket machine printing out orders and eventually the orders become killed. Michael, he didn't love you. You should be dead. You're a piece of shit. All of a sudden, the uh stove catches fire and we realize that what isn't a dream state is that he has gotten tv dinners and all sorts of pre-packaged food from the freezer and set them on fire by trying to cook them in the middle of a drink.

Speaker 4: 1:00:58

I don't remember if either of you specifically have shared doing that like a version of that. I know I've been told stories by a couple of friends, of them having like waking up in the morning and realizing like they'd cooked overnight or wake. I've. I've been in a group of people when there might've been you know reasons why we all would have been in this state at the same time. But, you know, woke up to like a house full of smoke because somebody was like, Hmm, you know what sounds good Cookies. You know what else sounds good A nap and then we almost died. Jesus, that's a true story. The fuck you mean, you made cookies. What's the matter with you? It seems like a good idea, Anyway.

Speaker 3: 1:01:50

You don't like cookies. No, I like them. When I'm alive, I do like them quite a bit.

Speaker 4: 1:01:58

That's a true story.

Speaker 3: 1:02:00

That is so funny. This is not about the cookies, exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:02:04

We stopped talking about cookies? Goddammit, no. But there's something haunting about the idea of doing things and acting out when you're unaware. When you're, you know what I mean. Like, because that's not just a dream state, that's not like just sleepwalking like you used to see in like old comedies, where it's like, oh, like to take stuff out and to turn on the fire, like there was some processing of information, like what is that state? Like? We know sleep and we know wake of information. What is that state? We know sleep and we know wake. What the fuck's that? I found that as horrifying as anything that has happened so far. That that's how he.

Speaker 3: 1:02:51

Coach's face when he watched that. He was like, oh God. But it also gives you an insight into his psyche. You're not okay bro you are not motherfucking.

Speaker 4: 1:03:01

Okay, that's what that said to me. Pause everything, this shit can't go on. Yeah, and I didn't realize because I thought it was a dream dream. So I was waiting to see was his brother's face going to be in the fire or some shit? Like I was like what's going to happen. And then when he grabbed the fire extinguisher, that's when I went into like real shock, like oh my God, like this is happening, this is happening. So, yeah, it was pretty horrifying. It's been like finding out in Wayne that the barbarian was like the barbarian just comes like trotting up to the police department later and you're like, whoa, like that was a real person, wait, what so?

Speaker 3: 1:03:46

so, coach, you make a great point where you say you know, hey, bro, you got to stop. Like you got, this has to stop. But he, he can't. How can he stop that? Like everything stacked against him? The practicality of it, it's, it's, it's almost as profound as the academic versus realistic or practical application. It's like, yes, academically, I need, I need to take a break. Practically, I, if I do this thing, goes under and I ruin my brother's legacy. Um, so there's not a lot there. Um, there's not a lot there to work with. Yeah, the frustration is evident. This show, it's funny because we're only how many minutes in. Are we here, boss, 40 total, yeah, 40.

Speaker 4: 1:04:34

So we're oh the episode. Yeah, time of this episode we're in what Eight minutes or so about 10 minutes, yeah, time of this episode.

Speaker 3: 1:04:36

We're in what? Eight minutes or so, 10 minutes um, and and it just feels like boy. I hope more things don't get stacked against oh, no, yeah, no, no, no.

Speaker 4: 1:04:46

And you know, even as you hope, that I'm sitting here going yeah, I've been, I've lived this year. Good luck, right. Yeah, wait till you forget to pay that parking ticket, buddy, all right.

Speaker 3: 1:05:01

It reminds me of people who go oh, it'll get worse before it gets better. And I'm like God, that is so awesome that you think things will get better, like that's amazing.

Speaker 4: 1:05:09

Right, it's not the worst part that's throwing me off right now.

Speaker 3: 1:05:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm like, oh, it's going to get you, Sure, it's going to get better. Huh, it's not like it's going to get worse and then everything's going to be sunk, but that's the type of environment it feels like, and so this is where we're going to leave it today. Go ahead, coach, no ahead coach. No, no, no, no.

Speaker 4: 1:05:36

I I, I guess, as you were saying, that there's something about, um, there's, there's something in this story is really impacting me and I think it is that piece I said before about like when you've worked at the French Laundry and you understand this place and you're trying to figure out who you are in either place. Really that part is really speaking to me and there's this whole idea of alienation and we'll get into that some other time because it made me think of that. But I guess that's like I, I, some, I just found myself wanting to, to, to flag that and and and and think about as I'm watching some of the rest of it, really want to highlight, like everybody here seems to be trying to figure out who fits in where and how. Right, like Sydney, fuck, is you doing here? Oh, my dad liked this place, all right, well, shit. My dad liked fucking Popeye's I'm not working there.

Speaker 4: 1:06:46

Like what the fuck? Like my dad didn't like Popeye's, that just came to mind. But like you know what I mean. Like there's like just this thing of like everybody, like what is everybody doing, you know? Like richie too is like, oh, you know, I'm up to here with my fucking lawyer and whatever. So like why don't you didn't go to fuck home? Like go get another job. Like something's making everyone as much as everything's drenched in grief. Something's drawing them and I think part of it is oddly as much as everybody's bumping into each other here.

Speaker 3: 1:07:20

this is where they fit in yeah, although that is a different, yeah that looks strange at this point right you see what I'm saying, though.

Speaker 4: 1:07:30

Yeah, in air, air quotes fit in right right like it's a very land of misfit toys of vibe, but it does kind of feel like where the fuck else are you gonna go, sidney? Where you gonna go? Now you coming through here with motherfuckers? This man is so tired and worn and thin that he is dreaming his way into setting his fucking house on fire. You think he get ready to read your 175-page motherfucker report on how this restaurant we're all figuring it out.

Speaker 3: 1:07:59

We're all figuring it out, but anyway boss, when you originally saw this show, I know you came to it. Come for the Jeremy Allen White, stay for the rest of everything. How did you feel by to be clear.

Speaker 4: 1:08:16

That's C-O-m-e. Boss.

Speaker 3: 1:08:19

I didn't want you to get thrown off by the question it's a low light of this episode is some of the wordplay stuff. My apologies to anybody with taste who might have joined us. Um, boss, at this point, how are you feeling?

Speaker 2: 1:08:38

Oh, when I first watched it, I immediately loved it, Like from the jump. I can't remember my experience watching it the first time. I do know for a fact. When the second season came out, I tried my hardest to not finish it in a day. I am pretty sure that I watched the first season in one day and I was like let's just do this, let's just go wow yeah, I hear that I really had to pace myself with the second season.

Speaker 2: 1:09:11

Uh, I kind of remember and this will be later on uh, specifically in one of the later episodes, having to like take a break when I was first watching it, having to be like I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go sit down, I'm gonna go give myself a minute with this there's a couple episodes that demand it, but we're gonna get to those fucking wild, um, and also I remember being so goddamn relieved that lip gallagher did a good show.

Speaker 2: 1:09:45

I was so fucking thrilled like, oh okay, I, I, I can enjoy this. This is great. So, yeah, that um, and I feel like a lot of what is resonating with you, coach, is this is a place where he doesn't quite fit in. He didn't exactly fit in in the French restaurant either. I think what is compelling for that is that he doesn't know who he is yet and he's trying to figure out that portion more than anything else. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:10:18

Part of being a human is is is recognizing, and this is this is great when you have kids. A lot of my kids are on the spectrum or adjacent.

Speaker 4: 1:10:27

All of them are adjacent or I love that you have enough kids to say a lot of my kids.

Speaker 3: 1:10:31

Yeah, a lot of my kids, a lot of my kids, yeah, a lot of them.

Speaker 3: 1:10:42

Great, a lot of my kids, a lot of them, a lot of my kids antonio cromarty and nick cannon, yeah, that's it right. Um and so, uh, you know, talking about socialization and talking about, like, hey, humans are social animals and things like that, and you see, you know, in this world, when you guys say, oh, this is where they belong and this is like how they're fitting in and that sort of thing, you know, it's, it's part of the identity of the show, is this island of Misfit Toys thing that coach, you know, sort of reflected on and and boss, what you're, what you're alluding to, all the things we're going to get to is very exciting. But it is nice when somebody that you admire comes out with something good. It's, it's, it's so, it's a. It's a huge relief Because you just don't want them to, you know. You know how good they are and it's your. There's an identity thing wrapped up in it where you're like, no, I know they're really good and it's nice when that gets validated and then people go.

Speaker 3: 1:11:30

You're like oh you see, like he always has his own show in him, you know.

Speaker 2: 1:11:34

Yeah, but he turned out to be that bitch I knew he was.

Speaker 3: 1:11:38

It's pretty exciting 17 years ago.

Speaker 2: 1:11:40

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:11:40

Right, I love being ahead of the curve on things like that. It's nice, and it doesn't happen all the time, so it's nice when you're right.

Speaker 2: 1:11:51

Boss, where do people find you? If they want to find you, you can find me at Blue Sky, which is Emily underscore Chambers. Also at Threads, which is Emily dot Chambers, dot 31. If anybody wants me to send them a copy of the article I referenced at the beginning of the episode, along with my own 28 notes and corrections that I added to the margins, hit me up either place, I will happily send it to you.

Speaker 4: 1:12:15

Oh, I have to have that for posterity, if nothing else.

Speaker 2: 1:12:18

That's what I sent you, that is your reading. It has notes. Oh, this is so awesome. This is why I didn't have friends in high school. Oh, I'm so excited right now, or now.

Speaker 4: 1:12:29

Or now Since high school, sorry.

Speaker 2: 1:12:37

It's not five by my volition Coach.

Speaker 3: 1:12:41

where do people find you if they want to find you?

Speaker 4: 1:12:44

Come through, we align. We have been putting up new content I'm really excited about. I'm particularly excited and for those of you who just have a few minutes and I know you're like that guy a few minutes and I know you're like that guy a few minutes, but I promise you, it's true, we're creating a line full. This is going to be a series of meditations. They're five-ish minutes. Some are a couple more, a little less, but in that range you can listen to it as you go. There's video too, too. So if you want to watch video, but it's uh, it's a, it's a, it's a more, it's a, it's a real approach to uh, to, to meditation. I think some of you'll appreciate our tagline is real meditation for real motherfuckers. So if that gives you a sense of what we're going for, check it out that sounds awesome.

Speaker 3: 1:13:32

Okay, thank you, coach. Yeah, people check that out. That sounds great. Um, that's it for us today. Thank you for joining us for uh the bear, season one, episode two hands. Uh, we'll be back with season one, episode three next time. That's a joke, I'm waiting for coaching but like, yeah, right, yeah, we will. No, we'll be back with more of hands, chef, hands, hands, anybody, can you hear me? We, I don't know, we're eight minutes in. I'm guessing this will be 27 different parts for this episode.

Speaker 1: 1:14:06

So at some point I'm going to talk about somebody that's going to need a like a like a valium.

Speaker 3: 1:14:14

But yeah, thank you. Thank you for everyone joining us. Thanks for being part of this. We'll be back next time. Until then, please support your local libraries and the written word. Raise the best possible voice that you can In this crazy, colonized, messed up world.

Speaker 4: 1:14:30

And until then, we are Richmond Till we die and leave you a dying restaurant that you have no chance of ever fixing.

Speaker 3: 1:14:40

Okay, and break. Okay, Go get them. Wait what? What was the middle part? No, no, no Go on.

Speaker 4: 1:14:49

No, no, don't worry about that. Go, go, go, go, Run, run, run run.

Speaker 3: 1:14:52

Yeah, don't think about it too much All.