The Bear | S1 E2 Part2 "Hands"

In an effort to streamline the uploading process, we tried to let AI summarize the episode for us.  AI, however, is stupid, and in attempting to encapsulate our show, it hears what it wants to hear and frames it in a saccharine, markety way that's pretty gross. Our show is about The Bear and how it relates to the world at large.  Before The Bear, we covered Ted Lasso on Apple TV+ and Wayne on YouTube.  Below is what AI came up with, which is idiotic.  Don't let the terrible summary deter you!  Jump in the pool with us! 

AI summary:

Ever wondered what it's like to juggle a late-night cooking frenzy in the sweltering heat of Chicago? Picture this: Carmy battling a high-stress kitchen environment while the city's notorious heatwave adds another layer of pressure. We'll share personal stories of weathering extreme conditions in Boston and Los Angeles, offering a humorous yet relatable contrast. Plus, we'll explore the quirks of the Chicago L system and laugh over Coach's Tesla versus Boss's vintage hatchback.

Meet Sydney, a young and motivated employee whose detailed report might go unnoticed at first glance but is packed with value. Generational differences in workplace expectations come to the forefront as we compare Sydney's initiative to our own experiences. Recall the time a no-cost departmental report outshone a million-dollar consultant's proposal? We'll also touch on the hopeful aspirations of LA's screenwriters and the grounded nature of Bostonians, all while celebrating Sydney's proactive spirit.

Join us as we decode the intense kitchen dynamics and "chef speak" that reveal deeper power struggles. Discover why presenting solutions is favored over merely pointing out problems in high-stress environments. Finally, we'll dissect the intricate power versus authority dynamic between Richie and Carmy, highlighting Richie's emotional leadership against Carmy's formal authority. It's a nuanced look at how different leadership styles impact the restaurant's overall atmosphere and operations.

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The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpieces that are Ted Lasso on Apple TV+, Wayne on YouTube, and The Bear on FX/Hulu.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on all things AFC Richmond, entertainment, and everything in between.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso Talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the Lasso Way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 3: 0:40

Okay, welcome back, beautiful people. Today we're discussing the Bear, season 1, episode 2, hands. This is Part 2 of our continuing conversation about the episode. I am your host, coach Castleton. With me, as always, is Coach Bishop. Yes, chef, thank you, sir. I like that Coach. Where we left off last time, we had just seen Carmi and Coach, just before we started recording, said oh yeah, is he, is he uh? Is he asleep, is he awake? And then you realize oh, he's both uh at the same time, which is uh, which is which is uh. Not great when you're, when you're cooking uh packaged goods late at night on your stove With us is our boss, emily Chambers.

Speaker 2: 1:27

It is hot as balls. It's so goddamn hot outside I thought I would have.

Speaker 3: 1:33

In Chicago.

Speaker 2: 1:35

I think everywhere, but yeah, definitely in Chicago. It's been 90 the past couple of days. It's going to continue doing that. I thought I'd have something more interesting to talk about. I fucking don't. It's so hot.

Speaker 3: 1:46

The heat is oppressive in the Windy City, boss is. For those of you joining us and learning about us for the first time, I am in the Boston area, coach is in Los Angeles and Boss is in Chicago, so we try to cover all the bases. And, yeah, the heat can just wear you right out If you're not used to it, especially in the northern climates, it can sort of chop your legs out from under you.

Speaker 4: 2:13

It's a real bastard and it's almost got a physical weight to it. Having spent some time in Chicago, I'm like God damn man, get off my back.

Speaker 2: 2:25

Yeah, back. Yeah, no, it's fucking bullshit, especially because last week it was like 60, so it's the drastic increase that kills you. Every time too. If you work me up, I can. I can get to being comfortable in 80. I will still be sitting and sweating and that's wrong on a like moral level. But it's the sudden heat that's really gonna get you yeah no, it's rough yeah, if you're not used to it.

Speaker 3: 2:50

I remember uh attending a wedding in atlanta in august. Uh and I was like oh, sorry to hear that oh shit, yeah, I was like oh, oh, oh, oh yeah. All the talk about oh, northerners are so productive? Of course we are, because we're not being baked alive.

Speaker 2: 3:08

You're like oh, my God.

Speaker 3: 3:10

Like, how do you people live like this? It's unreal.

Speaker 2: 3:12

Yeah, you have to keep moving in order to stay warm.

Speaker 3: 3:16

But yeah, no, really I mean, but you just don't have that oppressive sort of, and the humidity man, oh my God, just the life ebbs from you.

Speaker 4: 3:27

It's funny too, because people always make that joke. It's not so much that he has a humidity, seriously, though. Seriously, though, I can be somewhere that's 100 degrees, and if it's not humid I can make it work.

Speaker 3: 3:41

Humid is sweet Jesus. It really does change everything. Now, that kind of heat, there's that kind of heat, and then there's the heat of uh, carmy, uh with open fires on his stove uh he puts. He puts them out with uh, with a, with a fire extinguisher, um, and then we move to the. The following day, uh, boss, we have a high finale by Serengeti, as the music overtop and walk us through what's happening here please.

Speaker 2: 4:10

So this is one of Chris Doerr's, the way that he works in the city you can do a shot of the owl and people will often be like, oh, I know that place right there. Blah, blah, blah. It is nice for Chicago that everybody else was like put your trains underground. We're like, fuck that, put them up in the sky and then you could see more. Yeah, and speaking of the humidity, it releases a lot of that and also the piece smell. So our L platforms not as bad as you might expect. Usually usually Okay.

Speaker 3: 4:41

After the L shot, though, wait wait, your l platforms compared to what uh give me.

Speaker 2: 4:48

I have been I have used public transportation in new york philly, boston, dc I think, other than dc chicago has the cleanest public transportation I haven't.

Speaker 1: 5:06

I haven't been on the sub in LA so I'm not sure about that.

Speaker 4: 5:11

I listen, I shouldn't speak too much about the LA subway, since I've been on it twice as a matter of personal protest, because I didn't work as hard as I did as a kid growing up in the 80s in new york to end up on public transportation. No really though. No, no, seriously, I, I hated it. I really was like I will have a car ever more. Like as a kid, I remember thinking like this, you know. So anyway, that's my trauma to work out, but but I will say that you're right about Chicago.

Speaker 3: 5:45

What kind of car do you have, coach? Oh, you're such a jerk, this is the opposite Yale this one he brings up every time. I know For different Boss has a hatchback from the 1970s.

Speaker 4: 5:58

I drive a Tesla, okay.

Speaker 3: 6:01

With a bumper sticker that says you bought it before me.

Speaker 2: 6:03

Are you like best friends with Elon Musk?

Speaker 3: 6:04

Yeah, I know Tesla Okay With the bumper sticker that says he bought it before he knew.

Speaker 4: 6:07

Yeah, I know, I need the bumper sticker. I really do need the bumper sticker because I am staunchly not a supporter of one Elon Musk. But here we are, I bought it before it was clear that he was quite what he's turned out to be. I mean, he was never my hero, but yeah, how would you know he's a Bond to be I mean he, he was never my hero.

Speaker 3: 6:26

But uh, yeah, no, no, how would you know? He's a bond villain. I mean like seriously, like he's like literal, how else can I ruin the world?

Speaker 4: 6:32

seems to be how he starts his days, but anyway, um, but yes, that is what I drive, but yeah. But to back to your point, boss, I have been impressed by, uh, chicago's mass transit, like runs, pretty much like, if not quote on schedule, like not my memory of, like new york where I was like I just waited an hour for a train and I know there's going to be another train three minutes behind this one, and I just don't understand yeah why this is happening.

Speaker 4: 7:04

So, anyway, but yes, but yeah, chicago, love the town, visited lots, brought up my lovely wife. So big fan, big fan, yeah, big fan of that.

Speaker 2: 7:15

um, yeah, so love chicago, love the opening shots. Um, there's also some prep work. They're opening the diner, salting the meat, getting it onto. Brown Carmi is looking at a whiteboard with writing on there there's like labor and the cost and potatoes and the cost, and then a drawing of somebody bent over spreading their butt cheeks so that their entire asshole is exposed and it says fuck my life to death.

Speaker 3: 7:41

And it's pointed, they say, yeah, which is the guy that fixes the all the stuff?

Speaker 4: 7:47

and I think it's awesome that they held on to that from the French laundry yeah, that that one they felt okay with wow, yeah, fact.

Speaker 3: 8:03

there's a thing on the boards is fact fact 65 bucks, Please pay us back fact. And then there's another color of marker pointing to the fact name, which says what coach?

Speaker 4: 8:17

He sucks. So, yeah, this is. We're learning a bit about how folks communicate here in this kitchen.

Speaker 3: 8:26

Underneath it says La Triana is broken again, underscored, underlined twice, which I imagine has to really suck. You can't use the turlet, but you get the there also. There's also the. Something I really appreciated from a production design choice, set, set, decoration choice is this whiteboard sucks, it's, it has the look, uh, the, the, the amount of. I've talked many times about my sensory issues, uh, and I did not know what OCD was growing up Uh, but I knew that when uh teachers wouldn't erase the entire chalkboard, I I would have an impulse to go finish erasing it. Wow, make me fucking crazy, like interesting, great. Even thinking about it makes me tense up a little. Yeah, wow, because I'm like just so interesting why?

Speaker 3: 9:23

would. Why would you miss the top of the l or something like? That's not good enough what you did right. You know what?

Speaker 4: 9:31

I mean that's great, that's.

Speaker 3: 9:33

Oh, it gives me. And then this one has like that sort of whiteboard ghosting when things are not erased well enough so you can sort of make out the what was written there before and it's so it. It irks me so much, it drives me crazy but you're like, yeah, this is not, that's not what this whiteboard is. This whiteboard is, you know, it's like a working tool, uh, it's not like a. You know it's not. It's not the french laundry, it's not. Uh, noma, it's not pristine and clean. It's like this sort of active message board, it's like an analog message board for people who are not. When's the last time anyone saw a physical punch clock to punch in and out on your shift Right, that's old school, that's from a different century, truly so this is more of that Truly a different century.

Speaker 3: 10:24

Yeah, go ahead, boss, keep going.

Speaker 2: 10:29

So at this point Sydney comes in and said I just wanted to say thanks for last week. It's been a really great opportunity. She's talking to him about everything that she has been doing and says but I want to do more. And he's like, yeah, no, I want to do more. She's like, yeah, no, I want to do more. She's like I want to get paid. He's like you do get paid to stash. And she's like, no, I want to get paid to work here. Like being very forward about the fact that she came here to work for car me and is interested in working on this restaurant with him. Uh, she then hands him a report and says I've done some research.

Speaker 2: 11:06

I did some extra credit. A little, a little extra credit she basically went through all of the costs, what they were charging, where they were missing out, like it's an entire business slash marketing, slash operating plan that she put together while she was also staging at the work at the restaurant.

Speaker 4: 11:24

Well, one of the things I love. I love a bunch of stuff about it, so let me stop doing that, okay. So I love that she called it extra credit, because it's that energy when you're first out of school and you still view the dynamic as that. So you're at work but you kind of treat your boss like they're your teacher or professor. It's a different. So I love that. That was a great piece of writing to use that phrase there, and somebody 10 years older than her probably wouldn't use that phrase. Excuse me, but the other thing I love about this is if they could or would pay someone to do what she did, it probably would cost them more than a year of the salary she's now gonna ask for. Yep, like it would.

Speaker 4: 12:17

I mean for those who are not watching. I mean this thing is, I don't know, somewhere between a quarter and a half of an inch thick. It looks like 12 point single space. When he flips through it, I mean it is fucking dense. I'm like try a graphic from time to time, jesus Christ, and you know it's a lot. I mean that is a lot of work and thought. For someone who has not done that kind of thing. It could seem like, oh thanks, nerd, that is a lot of work and thought he is now holding in his hands. I just thought it was yeah, it was good. It was great because I got why this was not the way to present this at all in this moment and I got that she is like I can help.

Speaker 4: 13:00

Yep exactly I can help.

Speaker 3: 13:04

I really appreciate the story. I was once working in IT and I got into this company. They had 200 people. When I first got the job it was out of college and two years later we went from 200 people to 2,600 people. So the company exploded, which meant I went, went from you know sort of fixing computers to running a big department. And what companies do? That drives me absolutely fucking crazy. Is they this company, which is a very, very good company, but they brought in an outside contractor to tell them how to properly run, basically, my department.

Speaker 3: 13:50

I knew I was leaving, I didn't want to be in the IT world. I was producing and writing on the side, and so I said I'm not long for this world. But I spent one night and I wrote exactly like this, like a Sydney doc. I was like this is how long everything should take. This is how you should break up the department. Here are the roles. It took me one night, just one night, went home, just did it.

Speaker 3: 14:18

They also got a report from Siemens and that report cost them $1 million, jesus. They had 22 on-site reps watching people making notes. And mine cost them nothing because I just gave it to them the next day. And three guesses which report they went with at the end of the day? The million dollar one, yeah, no, not the million dollar one, because they don't know what you're talking about. You're outside of it. You're not of the day. The million dollar one, yeah, no, not the million dollar one, because they don't know what you're talking about. You're outside of it, you're not in the trenches. And so one thing I can appreciate I just love.

Speaker 3: 14:55

One thing I loved about being in the film industry is when you move to LA for the first time, everyone's got a screenplay under their arm. It doesn't matter. Your taxi driver has one, well, now it's Uber or Lyft, whatever, but the waitress has one and your orthopedic surgeon has one. Everybody has something they want to get made, and I like the dream quality of that. I like the let's improve something.

Speaker 3: 15:25

I noticed when I moved back to Boston that people were more settled, and part of it is. You know we talked about how Boston has a lot of disgruntled people. It's sort of the ethos in New England, like to value your life or to weigh the quality of it by how much you've suffered. Um, but part of it is not having that screenplay tucked into your where you have like nothing better to look forward to. You know, even if those guys I mean zero percent point, oh, oh, one of those screenplays ever get made? No one. Your athletic trainer who's got a, a dollar and a dream and has has the, the next, uh, born supremacy that those are usually not all that great and they don't actually work. Uh, they don't get made, they don't even get read. But I do like the quality of, like hoping for something better.

Speaker 3: 16:15

And so sydney applying herself like this unasked, you know, sort of just being like I want to. I have value first of all, and you know, this is, this, is something that, um, I'm just giving. She didn't say hey, you gotta. She's like I'd like to get paid. I feel like I've been, uh, working here, the, the tone of how she says that is why the beginnings of some people uh, who watch it feel like sydney sometimes has a passive, aggressive tone because she she's not necessarily direct in some of the ways that she approached things. But how could she be? She literally doesn't have a job, like what she's supposed to do, demand anything. I'm like, I'm I'm definitely a Sydney apologist, because I'm like what is she supposed to do? She's like okay, like how, how, what's the right way to be? Like I, you have no money, I know you. She anticipates that there is no money for her other than the stage money, right, so she?

Speaker 4: 17:12

figures out what she is. She's watching what's going on. It's not like they're rolling in dough her out here no, yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker 3: 17:19

So she's like okay, I can't reasonably ask for you full-time wages unless I have a. And I love the if you're not part of the problem solution, you're part of the problem. She's like all right, I'm not going to be part of the problem. And she actively goes in and figures out a way to not only get her paid but get you know, to get other people paid, and I really love this, this element of it. Um, and I think you know, as they coach laughed when we were watching this together uh, what's the line that he says here, coach? Um, when he looks at the doc, the report it's um a lot of words a lot of words.

Speaker 3: 18:03

I was was like wow, that is an indicator.

Speaker 4: 18:06

So hard Because I've been in academic settings. I've written some long ass shit. So I know like when you also though I am now I know so ADHD and when I look at something and see the number of times in my life, I'll just share this little bit from my life the number of times in my life I have opened an email explaining a process that's about to happen and immediately close that tab, like reflectively, like I've just seen it and been like nope.

Speaker 3: 18:41

And then I ask people like hey, what are we supposed to be doing?

Speaker 4: 18:45

I just did that to somebody and I totally owned it, like hey, what are we supposed to be doing? I just did that to somebody and I totally owned it, like now I know. But so I would have opened this report and been like sweet Jesus, please just tell me what this says.

Speaker 3: 18:58

But then she does, she does the human version of TLDR Too long didn't read and she breaks it down. And boss, boss, what does she say? Walk us through Sydney's points here, please.

Speaker 2: 19:06

She says we're getting killed on labor. We're open from 11 to 9. That's dumb. We should be open from 11 to 2 for lunch and 5 to 9 for dinner. Not to mention you're spending money on pretty high-end stuff farmer's market produce. And he in the middle of it interrupts and says is my hair on fire? And she says no, not yet, but you need help. Which why does he say right? So what he means is like am I out of control with this? And also, am I unaware of that? Like I, this is not. He doesn't actually mean this is not a weird joaquin phoenix doing um the red carpet where he asked somebody if he has a frog on his head or whatever that was. This is like some sort of understood chef speak where he's saying like am I in the weeds? Is this really this bad? Like, is this so dire that you needed to come to me with this right now? And she's like yeah, actually.

Speaker 4: 20:07

Yeah, I didn't fully get that, so I'm glad you just explained it to me, because I just thought this guy is sleep deprived and cooking shit in the middle of the night and is really having a hard time with reality.

Speaker 3: 20:22

So you thought he was actively asking.

Speaker 4: 20:24

Yeah, kind of though Not like. Yeah, kind of though Like, not like really really, but kind of Like when um Remember when Ted asked um Is my tongue on fire, because? Remember when he was in the I thought it was like, in that vein, your version makes a lot more sense, boss. But that was kind of how I that's what kind of made me laugh and then I kept moving, but that yeah.

Speaker 2: 20:48

Well, and I should also say. I'm only assuming that that's sort of chef speak that they understood because of the way that she reacted to it and she had been like what? No, it's not, but the fact, that she immediately was like yeah, no, actually you need some help. It made me assume that this was in the same way, that it was like her corner chef.

Speaker 3: 21:11

Yeah, got it. She says these savings, 20% of them could cover my yearly salary, which Leaves 80%. I just think like, I like that. I like that solution finding. I like the agency of being like I'm not going to come to him and demand, I'm not going to be one more person reaching into his pocket without a viable way to cover that. I'm not spot to be in because there is an ask.

Speaker 3: 21:38

Anytime there's an ask, it makes the status and the power dynamic readily apparent. Right? One person is asking, one person is either granting or not granting and, as my mother will tell you, the most powerful word in the English language is no. It doesn't matter what you ask my mom, the answer is always no. Even if it's yes, she'll start with no, because yes has no power. It's just a thing. I don't. I don't get it. Wow, it's funny. Um, no, no, um, you can always. You can always uh, bargain away from no, but you can't bargain away from yes. So, uh, this, this is a beat here where she goes in and you know I would like to get paid. I feel like I've been working here and so you know this is, this is the. This is her methodology. Now, boss, keep going with here, with this scene, and tell us you know how it resolves and what comes out.

Speaker 2: 22:44

So I also really like her plan. She says it's not just the people, it's also we're sleeping on to-go orders. That's business, sitting right there. He's like yeah, yeah, yeah, we don't have the support system for food to-go business. We need to figure out how to pack. She's like packaging yeah, on page 27, randomly, she does have that answer. This is where the I and I don't want to say uh, it, you know that she's dreaming, especially with carme's dreaming. It's not that way. Um, I think that she's coming in with an idealized idea of we can make all of these changes, we can do all this stuff right now. We could update all of these things. And Parmi is like, okay, yes, we can, but in the meantime, like Tina is stealing my knives and putting them underneath the counters and nobody's listening and nobody's working together. Like I think that he is right now prepping for not a no, but a not yet and I think, sorry, sorry, did I cut you off?

Speaker 4: 23:52

oh, I was gonna say and in that answer I think there's a, there's an interesting rub that I'm sure they're gonna work with on the for the rest of the show or for a while here which is we gotta fix this. We can't fix this right now. Hell has broken loose. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know hell's broken loose. That's why we gotta fix it. No, no, we can't do that right now because right so, at some point something's gonna break that cycle. Either it's gonna be that the whole thing shuts down, or that they finally stop and fix it, or they start fixing at a time, but like they cannot continue the way they are going. That much is clear, right, like?

Speaker 2: 24:34

from both a business perspective and that they don't have any money because Mikey was sitting behind on the bills, like literally they can keep going that way, but also they can't stop right now in order to change things so that they're not going the same way.

Speaker 3: 24:46

So, yeah, exactly, but they are. So let's not lose sight of the fact that he did hire someone to stage.

Speaker 2: 24:55

Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3: 24:56

And that someone has real practical restaurant knowledge and some heavy-hitting restaurant. So he did whether he was mindful of this or not, he did bring in backup. Yeah, Of a kind Yep.

Speaker 2: 25:09

Yes, absolutely, and I think that we should get into this a little bit later, but I think that the show does a lot of really interesting things in what's happening in the culinary world right now. I'm sort of an expert. I watch a top chef, so I'm like, really up to date on all you stayed at a holiday exactly right, this is exactly what happened.

Speaker 2: 25:32

So I think that Harmi's character is supposed to be a person who would think like, yeah, actually somebody who worked at Alinea yes, I would like them in my kitchen making sandwiches because I would like to bring that level of expertise to a food that is this common and everyday. So I think he did that. I think he knew exactly what he was doing when he brought high-end chef who could be his sort of right-hand man to help work with the team that had all the sandwich knowledge. Sandwich knowledge is vastly underrated. I think more people should look into it. Look into sandwich knowledge, sandwich knowledge is vastly underrated.

Speaker 3: 26:06

I think more people should look into it. Look into sandwich knowledge.

Speaker 2: 26:08

Yeah, more people should be better at making sandwiches. There's some sad-ass sandwiches out there.

Speaker 3: 26:15

Oh Okay.

Speaker 4: 26:16

Yeah, actually, jokes aside, I am a big, a quality sandwich can be.

Speaker 2: 26:22

It can change your life.

Speaker 4: 26:23

Any the most amazing, expensive, crazy meals I've had. A great sandwich could crush them.

Speaker 2: 26:31

I swear to God.

Speaker 4: 26:32

It's unbelievable.

Speaker 2: 26:33

If I had to pick your last meal meal, it is a whole untoasted super cheese. No American from Cat and Nemo's no question. There's absolutely no way that that's noto's. No question I there's absolutely no way that that's not what I'm eating right before I die.

Speaker 3: 26:51

Yeah, no, it's. Uh, one of the best things about your children going to college is they start to appreciate your sandwiches. So, um, you know they're spoiled before that. And then they go and eat like cafeteria food and then they come back and they're like dad, can you, I had no idea. Like you make gourmet, like it's like unbelievable, like my. My secret is, I hated cooking and then got divorced and realized that I knew less than I wanted to about being the primary cooker. It wasn't like my ex was was into cooking either. It was mostly ordering out. But, but, but I noticed like, oh, no, I want to like actually be good at this, even though it's not something I I love. Um, and then you learn some tricks. Uh, there's a. There was an old doc, I think it was, uh, from dust till dawn. There was a behind the scenes by, uh, robert rodriguez is that his?

Speaker 3: 27:41

right name, robert rodriguez. Am I getting that right? Yeah, and I remember him saying as a filmmaker of all things, and he was like everyone should be able to cook four meals, like really, really well, like, so, like, if you can cook four meals like without a menu, without sorry, without like a recipe, without you know, you can just whip up and they're always good. Like you got these on lock and I was like I really like that concept and I probably had one at the time or two and now I have a like a truckload. But one of the things I always do is when I'm making sandwiches, I do a lot of pan frying of bread to like a real pan fry, so it's like a real crispy outer, and that's the thing that my daughter noticed when she went off to school.

Speaker 3: 28:26

They're like oh my God, like, oh my God, like it's such a, it's such a game changer, dad they eat raw sandwiches there.

Speaker 3: 28:33

Yeah, toast the bread. Yeah, heathens. One thing I liked about Sydney with her presentation. She's like, oh yeah, oh yeah, she sort of thought ahead and she's like, oh yeah, the to-go stuff is on page 27. There's a pretty good layout there and then she goes yeah, it's mostly graphics. We push in on her camera-wise and she says it's mostly graphics Because in response to it it's a lot of words Like okay, yes, I'm getting that. You're probably not going to have time to read this. But if you flip to 27, there's some pictures I storyboarded to go operation out. Coach is laughing but he's on mute. But there is that element to it. It has that I don't want to compare Trump to car me, but that you heard about in the White House, where Trump wouldn't read them unless his name was in the whatever. So they would figure out creative ways to to put his name in.

Speaker 4: 29:34

You know ancillary roles and it's like getting a kid to eat their vegetables. It's so sad. Anyway, let's not.

Speaker 2: 29:40

Let's never say, car me and Trump, the same sentence ever again.

Speaker 3: 29:44

Right, yeah, no for sure. And then that's the last thing before Carmi gets pulled away by Richie and you know Sid doesn't get her answer there. There was no. Like most things on the bear, it's left open-ended, which is, which is uh, true to form, um, and and what is happening here, boss, when carmy gets called away?

Speaker 2: 30:10

uh. So richie's up at the front with a stern looking lady and he says, yeah, I can handle myself, cousin, so you're not ron. And she says no, ron's gone, gone, gone. And she says ron's dead. He said my partner ron, he's passed away. I'm running his routes now and carmy is uh sorry, richie, obviously upset about that. He had a deal with ron, he knows ron. Finally, uh, carmen leans over and says uh hi, I'm carmen berzato, I'm the owner. And richie says actually, he's the brother's owner. He says the owner is dead and she says he doesn't look dead.

Speaker 2: 30:45

It's just back and forth like sort of uh yeah, abedin costello quality where it's like I know, obviously this guy isn't dead and obviously, if the owner is dead and the owner's brother is owning, and that, well, now he's the owner, like everything about it. This is even though the show has some really really tough hard moments and is soaked in grief. The shit like this is so fucking funny. To me it hits exactly right. It is absurd, while also having this fundamental understanding of how people in these situations would be acting.

Speaker 2: 31:20

Richie would want to not piss off Ron's new partner, new Ron but also he's fucking pissed and he doesn't want to deal with her, even to the point where he says can I see some identification? Like Richie, you only work there. What the fuck are you doing? It's not even your restaurant.

Speaker 3: 31:42

But wait, Richie doesn't see it that way.

Speaker 2: 31:43

Of course not. It is Richie. This is your brother's house. He is the shepherd.

Speaker 3: 31:47

Yeah, yeah, but I think he thinks he's in charge. Yeah, well, he's been running things.

Speaker 4: 31:53

Yeah, he doesn't know her, but Carm didn't even know what's his name, ron.

Speaker 2: 31:57

Ron yeah.

Speaker 4: 31:58

Do you know what I mean? Yeah, so I get what you're saying. Listen, I get what you're saying.

Speaker 3: 32:01

Listen, this is a very explain both sides on Reddit moment, where you look from Richie's perspective. Well, let's look at Kami's perspective. Kami's like I'm in charge. The buck stops with me. I've dealt with restaurant inspectors before. It's part of the job. You say you defer to them in every possible way because nothing good can come out of anything outside of that. Okay, now the other side is Richie's side, which is you'd be a fool to not have an inherent mistrust of the government. Only a sucker doesn't rig the game as much as they can. We used to give Ron free ice cream. We used to give Ron free sandwiches, and Ron would look the other way. He never even did. We used to give Ron free sandwiches and Ron would look the other way. He never even did. For 15 years, ron Mikey had Ron coming and going and all it did was cost us a couple of Italian beef, say whatever. That's Richie's perspective. Now there's something.

Speaker 3: 32:55

How do you contend with this new thing? So he also, he's not going to roll over. He's like no, no, I want to see some identification. I'm not. He's like, no, no, I want to see some identification. He wants her to know she is being. There's some pushback here, like they're not helpless in the way that he expects a member of the government to view him. Like, oh, we're not victims of the government. Like we want to see identification. You better follow all the rules of this. You know what I'm saying. Like he's not this, he's not acted upon, he still has an active role in whatever this evaluation is. Because he's not he's, he's not used to just sitting there and accepting whatever the ruling of the uh of the health, the board of health, is.

Speaker 2: 33:41

Well, what I was actually thinking was more from the perspective of who is in charge of the restaurant and richie is not and richie wasn't when mikey was around. Richie says that uh, I was running it fine without you, was he? Because, like as soon as carmy stepped in, there were all sorts of money problems.

Speaker 2: 34:02

I think think that the issue is Mikey could get away with acting the way that Richie is. Mikey would be able to say like oh, come on, let's get you a sandwich and an ice cream, and then you could do it. You don't want to work on an empty stomach. I think Mikey would be able to have that sort of like pull with the health inspector, and Carmi wants to do it on the up and up because he doesn't.

Speaker 2: 34:22

Richie wants to do the mikey thing. I don't think he has the mikey pizzazz to get it done I'm sure that's interesting.

Speaker 3: 34:29

You got to imagine that mikey would go, especially towards the end when it got dark, according to fact that that mikey would be like richie just handle that, I don't want.

Speaker 2: 34:38

Yes, absolutely best friend.

Speaker 3: 34:40

I'm sure there's all kinds of these uncomfortable situations that he pawned on to richie that richie, you know, has had to handle over the years and I I think richie thinks he's in charge oh, I definitely he doesn't.

Speaker 2: 34:52

I just think that he's wrong about that right, okay, um, yeah, boy, that's interesting.

Speaker 3: 35:01

So he's wrong about his perception that he's in charge, even though in many ways he is in charge.

Speaker 4: 35:07

But what I think?

Speaker 2: 35:08

Sorry, no, but in what ways is he in charge?

Speaker 3: 35:13

He's the emotional leader of the staff. He is the, he is the long term. He's paid his dues in a way that Kami hasn't in this industry. He's known to the customer base. He understands the danger of nerds on the sidewalk. He has physical authority via the gun or a intimidating physical presence might makes right quality. He has a closeness with the staff where they listen to him to spot check, like they will text him when they don't like something about Carmi and then he will give them a nod to follow Carmi's thing. So in all of those ways he has a semblance of control, whether or not he's like. This was gifted to him as a, as an entity.

Speaker 2: 36:03

Yeah, you know, what I didn't hear was legally or financially. Like, I'm not saying that you're wrong about anything that you just said. I'm saying that that is a group dynamic, that he thinks he could be in charge of this business when he isn't responsible for paying the bills or for any of the legal fallout of what might happen from the restaurant I, so I would.

Speaker 4: 36:27

So what I hear, and I'm trying to find the exact right words. I don't have them, but I hear the distance between authority and power yes, yep and so he has lots of power, but he has no authority. He couldn't sell this place if he wanted to. He's really not the one who should be fully taken on this health inspector, but he has power in the dynamic.

Speaker 3: 36:52

He also has authority. He has the authority Before Kami showed up. Before Kami showed up, it was Richie sitting at that desk, not Mikey. It might have been Mikey sometimes, but you know he's been. You know Richie's made deals. He was like, hey, we got to get the. The fight in episode one over spaghetti is a financial fight. That is a fight over. We need the money that this sauce brings in. So go do it. I'm counting on that income. You can't just arbitrarily axe it off the menu.

Speaker 4: 37:20

But why isn't that power as opposed to authority?

Speaker 3: 37:23

You see what I'm saying. It's like when you work somewhere he has the authority to say it or he wouldn't say it. But how does he enforce it? He tells Carmi to do it when Carmi doesn't do it, when.

Speaker 2: 37:33

Carmi throws the can of tomatoes into the trash and doesn't make the pasta. What leverage does he have? What's his recourse?

Speaker 3: 37:42

He almost Well prior, which is recourse? He almost well. That was prior to that. But when, when carmy tried to establish, hey, I'm, I'm in charge, I don't have to listen to you, I don't have to do this richie ignored him at the table and then he almost let carmy get his ass kicked. Uh, because carmy was out of line and didn't know how things worked, and only then did he save him. So he does have mechanisms to exercise his control. And I know what you're saying there's like in your mind, because because, uh, you're a robot, you know that there's a legal document no, no, no, wait, hold on.

Speaker 2: 38:14

No, no, no. Sorry I'm cutting you off because that isn't, that's that's not what I'm talking about.

Speaker 3: 38:18

He doesn't have that. What he has is functional. No, no, no, no wait I understand what you're saying.

Speaker 2: 38:25

What I am thinking is oh well, carmen's name is on the deed, therefore, he is in charge. What I'm saying is that the group dynamic right now is dysfunctional. I'm not talking about who gets to sign the checks. I'm saying that who signs the checks needs to be the de facto leader, because they are the ones that hold all the responsibility. This is the rights and responsibilities lining up or not lining up and Richie is trying to take responsibilities, take rights that he doesn't have access to. I'm not talking about, like, who the tenant is. I'm saying that, for the kitchen to be successful, richie can't keep pulling this bullshit because he's not the one who, at the end of the day, will need to pay the bills.

Speaker 3: 39:11

I think, I think I hear your, I hear your, your perspective. I think Richie thinks he pays.

Speaker 2: 39:17

I think, richie. This is why I said yes, but he's wrong. Right, I think that he thinks that, but he is wrong.

Speaker 3: 39:24

My thesis. I hear, I hear you, I hear what you're saying. My competing take is that what we're witnessing is a transition of power, and it is messy and unclean and undignified and not sort of talked out in a way that lends itself to the gray areas being known widely across the staff. So even in this scene, even with the writing, the reason that we get Carmy pulled away from Sid is because Richie yells yo Carm, uh, from from sid is because richie yells yo karm, okay, so we hear richie call karm and then we see him come out and we you want me to- back up yeah, is it richie right there?

Speaker 3: 40:14

yo, karm richie, okay, yeah. And then, as at when carmy comes out, he's like yo, I got this. The first thing richie said is, no, I got this, cousin. Okay now, maybe he called him before the lady comes in. Maybe he was like, hey, yo, whatever. And then right then is when the health inspector walked in. That's possible. We didn't see it, so we don't know. Yo, I can handle this myself, cousin, I got this. So right away, richie's establishing I am the person that does these things. I don't need your defeat New York. You know, noma ass coming in here to not understand how to deal with an inspector.

Speaker 3: 40:49

This is a really this is a very blue collar sort of take, and I know this because I grew up in a family where there's like absolute mistrust. For in our town was the building inspector. They'll never let you do anything. They'll screw you every chance they get. You got to pay all these fees. Whenever you build, do not tell the building inspector. That was like that was a talk about a golden. That's like chiseled in stone in my family and I remember the first time I went to talk to the building inspector I was like, hey, can I do it? And he's like's, like, yeah, of course, why wouldn't you want to improve your property? That's great where I'll come down, I'll help you figure it out and I'm like what it was? It was absolutely a different take and I'm saying that's what we're up against in this scene is a who is actually in charge, and b based on who is in charge, how one deals with the government in a situation where you either believe in the prospect of inspections or you don't.

Speaker 4: 41:55

So a couple of things stand out. I'll try to be quick, so I hear a couple of different things. I feel like the different pieces being pulled on here, because I hear both of you on what you're saying. I think there's the part you're talking about, the distrust part, right, which is government, bad regulations get in the way, right. All that Now I'll share that. At um, we thought about remodeling the house, blah, blah, blah. And we were, we were thinking about what we would be able to move or not move, and I was like you know, what would be dope is if we knocked that wall down right there, that wall, blah, blah, blah. And I forget technically who it was, cause it might've been a contractor, cause it wasn't an inspector, an an actual inspector.

Speaker 4: 42:44

But they said, oh no, no, no, that is a load bearing wall like if you knock that wall down, you are taking down your house, your house down, yeah, so we like to act like regulations are so stupid and it feels very like we don't need all that. But they're like, in part, these people exist so that you don't, genius, take a sledgehammer and inadvertently knock down your house. I would say the same thing is true here. The truth of the matter is it is, on a certain basic level, un-fucking-safe to have this dirty-ass kitchen and shit everywhere and cigarettes where they're not supposed to be, and these rules exist for a reason. So I think I understand the distrust and in some ways I share the distrust. I also think sometimes it's taken too far and people don't want to have basic rules, and sometimes rules exist for a reason. So there's that part.

Speaker 3: 43:41

Coach, coach, that is a. It is a. It is like when people say, oh, the speed limit, yeah, the speed limit is all well and good, but that's for idiots. I don't need to go 20 miles an hour. You'd have to be a moron to go 20 miles an hour. So it used to be a badge of honor.

Speaker 3: 44:01

Once upon a time, For example, someone would look at you, a contractor, and this is, this is not an attack, but just an outside perspective, right, and they would say you say you know it'd be dope is to take that wall down. And then they'd go oh, you went to yale, I get it, okay, right? Yeah, see, if you don't know, that ceiling joists run perpendicular to the wall and that means that the wall is likely load bearing. That's a rite of passage. It's like a blue collar rite of passage, like obviously, that's a load-bearing wall. Just look at where the joists are. It's. This is, this is a, a no-brainer. That's the type of of knowledge that we're talking about. Where it's like richie would never. He's like we don't need a fucking spell, all anything that was required for me to do my job. I don't fucking need an inspector to do. That's his perspective, whether he's right or not, and wherever the line of delineation is between oh, let's keep people safe and not, it still is a very commonly sort of a common mistrust of regulatory entity.

Speaker 4: 45:02

I know it exists and actually I'm not saying it's all wrong, right, like, I think I bet it's been years. There are people who eat here once a week. They've never had a single problem. They've never been sick after they ate there. They're like I'm sure people have been wolfing down this spaghetti great, and I guess they're not even. But, and there's a reason why there are rules about how you store food. There's a right. So I think both those things are true and I bring it up especially because I think that's the rub, part of the rub that we're going to see constantly between karm and rich. Like even what you said about that whiteboard, right, yes, yes, it's a working tool and I get why it's not pristine. Also, this is a working tool. We can't be drawing pictures of people bent over showing their assholes because, like, we need that space for the work part. Like, both things are true.

Speaker 3: 46:04

Except we do have it, because that's also part of what the function. You see what. You see what I'm saying, like he when he says so let's hands or whatever he needs a thing to happen.

Speaker 4: 46:14

But wait, but let me just go pull back and make it a bigger.

Speaker 3: 46:16

A bigger conversation, right, we talked about with wayne. It's different between civilization and and barbarianism, right? So so with this it's a function even in the. I think I'm not sure that Boss and I are exactly saying different things. I think Boss is saying practically Karmie is in charge, whether Richie likes it or not. Richie just doesn't know it yet and hasn't gotten around to it. Is that?

Speaker 2: 46:39

fair. Okay, yes, and that's probably true. I don't actually care about Richie style versus Carmi style. I think that each of them could work in different situations. I obviously am more in favor of regulation, because I'm a fucking accountant. That's how we do shit. What I'm saying is that at the end of the day, when Carmi said, why didn't he leave it to you, then that is going to be Richie's character development through the rest of the show. Like he wants to be the person who the restaurant was left to, but Mikey didn't leave it to him. So what is his role going to be in this place when he isn't the owner, when he isn't the one that's actually in charge? Like, how are he and Carmi going to work that out, and what's he going to do in order to not constantly be failing at being this thing that he doesn't get to be?

Speaker 3: 47:30

this is a through. One of the best three lines of this show is that exact dynamic, um, and and so we'll explore that as we go in this moment um, you know you're talking about, you know this sort of varying takes. For those of you who may recognize the actor who plays the health inspector, this is a little tip of the cap to she plays Trudy Platt on Chicago Med, chicago Fire and Chicago PD and Chicago Justice too. She's like, she's just like in everything Chicago. So for those, those are not. I don't, I'm not a fan. I don't watch a ton of network TV, mostly because you can't swear. But you talk about something, the speed limit of sort of scripting it is. You know you, coach, what is the term? You said this to me one time and I forgot it was a film school term you learned about. It was like minimum exclusion or something like that. It was like with network.

Speaker 4: 48:36

TV. It's like Least objectionable programming. That one, that's it.

Speaker 3: 48:40

Least objectionable program. Yes, which is what you feel every time you watch a bad network TV and even some of the good network TV, you go, oh, they would have made this, they would have zigged here, but they had to zag because of, quote unquote, least objectionable program. But anyway, we get the scene here where you know I can handle this cause and I got this. We've been working with Ron. You're not Ron. You know this whole thing, the dynamic that Boss talked about about Ron's dead, and so there's some niceties where they say, oh, my brother died, my condolences about your brother dying. Richie says, oh, ron's dead, my condolences about Ron dying dying. Richie says, oh, you know, oh, ron's dead, my condolences about Ron dying. And then he asked for identification. And this is where sometimes you know this is where you I think, if you're mindful of things like this, is where you hate white men. You just hate them so much.

Speaker 3: 49:46

I let a guy turn in front of me the other day. It was like crazy traffic and there's a truck trying to cut across the lane and I'm like this guy's going to be here for forever, you know. And I'm like, all right, fine, I just like stopped and let him go in front of me, he cuts in front of me and he cuts in front of me, um, and uh, of course, does he wave. Coach, did he thank me for that? No, and uh had a certain sticker on the back of his, uh, of his ford f-150, uh, oh dear, reflecting who he's voting for in the upcoming election which uh aligned with with that um.

Speaker 3: 50:19

But there's this thing sometimes where you're like, oh god, just shut the fuck, like these, this is your old trick. Oh, let let me see some identification, right. So she shows him identification. And what does Richie say here, coach, interesting, interesting, because, god forbid, right, it's like, oh, no to, I have to seize the, the moment I'm, I am, I am falsely making myself, uh, you know, like a, yeah, a key member of this interaction, when it's like, but you, interesting.

Speaker 4: 50:56

Yeah, no, it's not I, I, but I love karm's reaction to what I see in. It is, and maybe speaks to your, your friend in his f-150 as well, but that's a different conversation. Not my friend. People who there's no, us, there is not enough, no, no. But he. There's something about watching someone who is experiencing their lack of power try to exert power. Yes, right.

Speaker 3: 51:31

So I'm trying to think of, like a this is like the last 10 years of our life is yes People who recognize that their precarious toehold on power is slipping and that they'll do anything to hold on to it. Now, ritchie's not doing that, but if you look at the scene, look at the way he's looking at it, just look at the look.

Speaker 4: 51:52

She's literally just doing her job. This is literally her job.

Speaker 2: 51:57

Yeah, also, I think this grasping onto power is exactly what Ritchie is doing. In the same way, I'm not saying that Richie voted for Trump, but I'm saying Richie did not vote for Hillary. I know that 100%.

Speaker 3: 52:14

I guarantee you're right about that. I don't know if he votes.

Speaker 2: 52:19

The thing about it the most is you can see how not tough he is. Like he has an input. If there is a power, he is impotent in it right now. He cannot make her go away. He can't get run. Carmy is going to handle the situation like this will see you know him develop over this, but he doesn't look powerful. He looks like a tool right, which is exact opposite of what he's trying to do.

Speaker 3: 52:44

He doesn but he doesn't look powerful, he looks like a tool right, which is the exact opposite of what he's trying to do he doesn't. He doesn't have the skill set to understand sorry, I should have said jagoff.

Speaker 2: 52:52

He looks like a jagoff. That's much more of a chicago word that is a proper.

Speaker 3: 52:56

That is the problem.

Speaker 4: 52:57

But I think impotence is is the perfect word choice there, though, because I like that's what it is. It's like well, let me see some identification. Like it's almost his last, last. Like like um, obstacle, he's just trying to throw in her path on her way into the kitchen. Like next he'll just start like throwing chairs in front of the kitchen door. He's like so desperate. She's clearly not there for a sandwich, and she looked pretty official before the badge. She certainly looks pretty official holding that badge. He's like what are?

Speaker 3: 53:29

we doing. He's got also body language. He's got his arms crossed in front of him, he's glaring at yeah, he's a baby, and so he says interesting to her badge. And Kami goes what boss? I love this response.

Speaker 2: 53:42

Is it? It's interesting? What's interesting about that? And then when he's like oh, it's an interesting Logan. She says Nancy, if you need anything, you can come find us. So this is again what you do when you want to demonstrate power isn't puff your chest up and demand to see people's badges. You say like okay, well, I am the one in charge, so if you need anything, you let me know. And then he walks away.

Speaker 3: 54:11

Which do you think Nancy, make yourself at home? If you need anything, give us a. That's what that's. I'm just saying. Who is she more likely to play ball with? The fucking ogre who thinks the logo on her badge is interesting and is trying to hold her up? This is, this is stop. 11 out of 38 she's got today. Does she need some fucking barbarian to stand in her way?

Speaker 4: 54:34

by the way, 36 of which include some version of this interaction, because ron is on the take or was right Right, right Right. Sandwiches and shit all around town. So now she's got to go everywhere and go. No, no, no. This is an actual inspection. Like this isn't. I'm not on my like collections route here. Like this is I'm going to inspect this place. That's my job.

Speaker 3: 55:01

Right, Right. That is part of the transition which is left to her. Thanks, Ron. We don't know that Ron's on the take. In all fairness, we don't know. But we know that they felt comfortable with him. That's true, You're right. And now it's a level of discomfort and she has an affect to her appearance, to her sort of vibe of you're not going to bribe me, she's just got sort of a no shit serious business kind of affect to her, and so I'm sure that's disconcerting to people who thought they might get out for a sandwich.

Speaker 3: 55:42

Now she heads off and on her way out, lest he try to salvage any decency for a sandwich. Now she heads off and and on her way out, lest he try to salvage any decency or or integrity whatsoever. Boss, what is what does Richie say to her back as she's walking away?

Speaker 2: 55:59

No, funny business, ms Chore. And she says you too, and then walks away.

Speaker 3: 56:09

Yeah, there's that no funny business, because that's what the government's all about. I don't know, maybe Ron shook people down. I don't know, we don't know Without seeing Ron. We don't know Now, what happens here, coach, walk us through. We don't know without saying wrong. We don't know, um, now, uh, what happens here? Uh, coach, walk us through. Carmi walks away. He says, nancy, make yourself at home. Um, and as they're heading sort of out back, he's got um, uh, he's, he's got Sid trailing him, and what's happening?

Speaker 4: 56:41

Um, she said, explaining that she also sees it's expensive and that there's shipping in terms of this flower and somebody should go pick it up, he says, okay, great, marcus, yeah only Marcus.

Speaker 4: 56:54

He has to go pick it up, of course. Of course it needs to be Marcus, to which he says no, it can. She's like why, marcus, it can only be Marcus. Why can it only be Marcus? Sweeps, tina and Ebra. Don't drive, ebra. Well, what about Richie? Suspended license. So I thought this was great for all the reasons we've been highlighting. Otherwise, like she's like oh no, this is a task that could be shared by multiple and it's like not here, it can't. We got suspended licenses. We got motherfuckers who don't even drive. We got some you know what I mean like who knows what else is at play, so-and-so's. You know x lives down the street from there, so they can't go. Like whatever it is like he understands that there's more to it than what's in that report there is a uh, it doesn't matter what industry you're in.

Speaker 3: 57:42

there is always a disconnect of some level between theory and practice, absolutely. This is why you get architects who draw the most beautiful things, and then you get GCs, general contractors or tradesmen who look at it and go this fucking door jam won't close. If I do it that way, like what is wrong with this guy? You know what I mean. Like, practically, this doesn't apply. It really doesn't matter what industry you're in. So I said that in a really weird way it doesn't matter what industry you are in. When Sid makes this sort of pie in the sky outline, it's great. But yes, we have a practical matter of the fact that people don't drive and richie's got a suspended license.

Speaker 4: 58:25

keep going here, coach so uh, sid says I saw him drive this morning, which she no doubt did like suspended license. So, um, so that I thought that was like a great way to end that exchange, because nothing, I shouldn't say it quite that way, that's a little off. But uh, the way it feels is like nothing is quite as it should be. Like should is not a word that matters a ton around here how things are supposed to go, that there shouldn't be egg yolk dripping off onto the floor like who who gives a shit? People like their sandwiches. See you tomorrow. Like should is not. You know that's not something that's held in very high regard around these parts.

Speaker 3: 59:13

And then yeah, coach, before we jump into that, I want to refresh people's memory about how much we admired and this is where Ted Lasso lost boss from time to time. But those of us who were big fans of keely fucking jones in ted lasso, we admired how uh, we alluded to to the dynamic where sometimes in certain corporations and certain entities, in certain entities, in certain locker rooms, in certain places, workplaces, even in clubs, even in PTA organizations, a new woman on the scene finds the most friction from not the men on the scene but the existing women employees looking to cut her knees out and how that's something that is. There's a commonality to that across different workplaces and environments. And we admired about Ted Lasso that they showed an example, they were able to give us an example of how that would look if that wasn't the case, which was so optimistic in many ways that boss was like I'm out, like, like, oh, that would be nice.

Speaker 3: 1:00:29

But not everything has a happy ending. Um, here in the bear, they don't, they don't suffer from that, that same malady. And what we have now is we, we step into a situation where tina, of all people, um, is not all that hype about the report, that she must have seen the report be delivered. And Boss, what is she saying? Here out back? She's with Ibrahim. He's smoking a cigar. They're outside the back of the beef and what does?

Speaker 2: 1:01:00

she say? She says I'm telling you, beware of bitches with little notebooks.

Speaker 4: 1:01:07

I laughed out loud at that. One thought that was great.

Speaker 2: 1:01:10

Um sorry, continue I just thought that's a very funny way to open that sydney walked in just a couple of days ago and now she's running shit just like that. Uh, all fucking willowy and scribbling. Jeff, I could do anything to work at Noma bitch. Look around this, ain't Noma? And I think that this is I. I didn't see this as so much as being, um, like a, an older, younger women, woman thing. I think she has an affection for car me that she was willing to go along with some of this shit, like when, uh, she said when he says don't wipe your hands on tea with him with him when he's no, no, no when he's because, listen when he says, uh, don't wipe your hands on your apron, chef, and she says jeff, like she doesn't understand it.

Speaker 2: 1:01:59

But she keeps calling him jeff, like that becomes her thing To mock him Kind of, but not, not in a not in a mean way.

Speaker 3: 1:02:09

You have a different read on Tina than I do you. You feel like Tina has been around forever and she was like part of the family. I don't think Tina has been around that long and I think she's been an employee and that's it, and I don't think she's been around long enough that she's been around, but I don't see her as, like, a member of the inner circle, uh, like mikey's inner circle.

Speaker 2: 1:02:32

I don't think she's coming to thanksgiving. That's what I'm saying. I don't think she's not rich, so I'm gonna put a pin on this. Right now. She's not even fat. I'm gonna put a pin in this because there's a scene where it is explicitly stated how close they were. So I, I want to come back. That's coming, that's coming up. Yes, so so we'll come back to it. But, um, especially the way that she talks to carmy, I, I, I believe that she has known him since he was a teenager and that she has a. There is, um, a resentment and an underlying sort of uh, the same way that richie feels betrayed by carmy going off and working in all these great places and saying, like I'm a high-end chef, I don't need to talk to you guys anymore.

Speaker 3: 1:03:12

I think that she has the same level of like, feeling betrayed by him, but I believe that she loves carmy in the way that you would love a nephew okay, uh, regardless, let's say uh, I will concede that you, you know that scene and I don't, and therefore you're probably a hundred percent right in in this case, it is still functionally a woman. Uh, who is? Who is the? You know for lack of a better term the aggressor or the, the person who is, um, you know, know, taking those concerns and making and saying them out loud. It's not Ibrahim saying it to Tina, it's not Marcus, it's not wait, it's not Ibrahim.

Speaker 2: 1:03:52

Wait, no, no, no, that's Ibrahim that she was talking to they were outside having a cigarette?

Speaker 3: 1:03:55

Well, he was having a giant cigar.

Speaker 2: 1:03:57

She was having a cigarette.

Speaker 4: 1:03:59

Giant yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 1:04:01

That was a Churchill, that was, that was a cigar yeah and and and that is, uh, one of the strengths of this writing staff, about the, about the entire writing staff. But, chris, store, specifically for this episode where, um, you have to build stakes and that is a tiny. It's what? Two lines, right, beware of our three lines. Like three sentences, right, uh, beware of little. Whatever, uh, with notebooks or you or whatever. It says Willowy and scribbling. I laughed. I'm like I don't know if Tina uses the word willowy, scribbling. Yes, I'm like willowy feels like that seems like a very specific word to use for her, but it's accurate. But I laughed, but yeah's that's funny.

Speaker 4: 1:04:46

I thought it did something, though, coach, and maybe you're I'm not sure she really would use it like in real life if we ran a thousand tinas through the the simulator. What I like about it, though, is it says smart does not equal educated, and we shouldn't use people's vocabulary, you know, as like an all in indicator, but to me, the use of the word willowy is like Tina's no dummy. Like Tina may talk rough and she may curse and she may call a little bitch or whatever, but Tina's not dumb. Like this is not the smarts versus the dumbs here. This is this is ivory tower versus street.

Speaker 1: 1:05:24

This is whatever but this is not the smarts versus the dumbs here. This is.

Speaker 4: 1:05:25

This is ivory tower versus street this is whatever, but this is not that, and I thought I think that line helps to like make it clear that that's not what we're doing here okay, okay now, yes, theoretical versus practical.

Speaker 3: 1:05:38

Coach. Bishop went to yale, doesn't know which way joyce go in his house. So you know what he is.

Speaker 4: 1:05:43

He is a I am gonna stand up for myself for a moment here. No, go ahead uh.

Speaker 3: 1:05:49

So what I'm saying is it's the theoretical versus the practical, but willowee is is a reflection on her appearance.

Speaker 3: 1:05:57

Willowee right is a suggesting she's kate moss right, this is a little this little thing comes in here and and she's got you know no fat on her and right she's a little, and you go, okay, that's where you're like. No, so that I listen. It's valid if people factor these things in, if someone's appearance is always factored into to the outcome of, uh, interpersonal sort of um, you know, interactions, but that's not like oh, I don't like the, the, I don't like the cut of her jib, that's that is. You know, fuck this little thing. Who the fuck is she coming in here with her little body?

Speaker 4: 1:06:42

because it is a reflection of her appearance as opposed to the content of the report I'm specifically curious I hear you on that and yes, I think that is specific to the to the dynamic between women, because if a man even said willowy, that would land different right, which I know. Gender sexual, I get it, but I'm just saying like broad strokes what we're talking about here. I'm curious, boss, what your reaction is. Slash was to appearance being brought in. Yeah, I'm not even gonna say why, I'm just gonna say that I'm curious.

Speaker 2: 1:07:20

I did not read it as her physical appearance so much as her persona, her attitude. I don't want to say aura, but the way that, coach, the way that you said, like sometimes people think that she's coming across as passive, aggressive, that there is something ethereal is not quite it, but Willoughowy is good. Um, I think, and I think that they will lean into this a little bit more later but I thought that this was more representative of uh, gentrification in specific neighborhoods, especially Especially the idea of some like culinary school asshole coming into your favorite sandwich shop and changing shit up, like not just for the people that have been eating there for 25 years, but for the people that work there. Like no, I don't want you coming in and changing my sandwiches. This felt much more Very interesting.

Speaker 2: 1:08:24

This felt much more on the level of Richie versus Carmi and Tina versus Sidney, and I think that that's because of the positions that each one of them played in the previous restaurant and what they're going to be playing in this restaurant, and so Tina, reiterating the same things that Richie said, reminded me a lot more of uh, we have been doing this. We don't want you to fix us. Nobody asked you to fix us the way that nat told car me in the first episode. No one asked you to fix this, including the staff that works there. Like tina was fine with it. Tina likes working there. She doesn't need shit to be changed. I don't need your fucking clipboard.

Speaker 3: 1:09:09

I think that's a really great point, and the way Richie does it is he uses slurs to attack Carmi, suggesting he's gay, or suggesting he's less of a man, or somehow. Some of the words he uses are really toxic, but it also could be taken that way, where it's like I'm going to attack you as a messenger of change, and Tina is definitely doing that with Sid. You're right. The conundrum that they face, though, is that when they try the sandwich, they have the reaction of like oh my God, and this is how society has changed in many ways. You know it's.

Speaker 3: 1:10:00

You know we used to say like there was a value to people knowing who they were. You know I remember the thing I would say is like you know, got dumb. People knew they were dumb in a way, like you know I would. It would be like oh yeah, I didn't go to school for that. So tell me, you know, I know you spent four years studying that you're an engineer. How do you think that's where it wasn't like, oh, I know as much as you, even though I haven't done anything.

Speaker 3: 1:10:22

There was like this sort of thing, and it's a pitfall because, yeah, you can say we don't want change, we have a system, we can do that. But then you can't also like the sandwich. Richie does it privately, but Tina does it publicly, right? You can't just go, oh my God, that, oh my God, because because that, oh my God outs you and that's your actual position. It doesn't matter what your purported position is. If you take a bite of that sandwich, it's like my dad used to say the proof of the pudding is in the eating. And it's literal here where if you eat the food item and it is that much more improved, you have to be open to the necessity of adjustment inside the system to manifest that outcome.

Speaker 4: 1:11:10

Oh sorry, go boss, but people don't make that, tether they don't make that emotional or philosophical tether.

Speaker 3: 1:11:18

They're like oh no, but I still want to keep it my way. Well then, you don't get that sandwich. This is a linear progression.

Speaker 2: 1:11:26

Not when you are in the middle of a grief cycle.

Speaker 2: 1:11:30

Yes, Right and so I think that that's like you say that people, you need to know these things. People do this shit all the fucking time. People will say all the time Jesus helped me with this win today and you never hear them saying well, fuck man, jesus, let me down and we lost big. Like those same ways, people can make associations in a lot of different ways that never need to make sense to them and when you're in the middle of grieving and don't want to change, they've already been through so much fucking change. They lost, mikey restaurant changed.

Speaker 4: 1:11:59

Carmy is trying to come in and do even more weird shit like even if they love the shit out of that sandwich, they are not going to accept it right now because they are too raw and too traumatized okay, I have to jump in because the point you just made about people thanking god for the game, the win, specifically jason tatum and I'm serious because for years I've noticed this and jason tatum, the other night the boss plays for the b Celtics, he's like one of their two lead stars. He thanks, he says how good God is and then he says, not because we won, but because I had this opportunity.

Speaker 4: 1:12:34

I think the way he phrased it was essentially like because I had this opportunity to be in this position to do this thing at this time and I like very much noted it, like I felt like oh, oh, like somebody has been doing some thinking, like in this unbelievable huge moment when people just sort of say that to some degree he. So I just wanted to call out, shout out to jason tatum that's what I want to hear. World champion b world champion Boston Celtics. Even as I root for them, saying world champion Boston Celtics still hurts a little bit.

Speaker 3: 1:13:11

I know, coach, I wouldn't think that's what would hurt. I would think it's the fact that with that win they pull ahead of the Los Angeles Lakers as the winningest franchise in history Magic Johnson tweeted, or whatever it's really hard to know that they now have the most championships ever.

Speaker 4: 1:13:30

I was laughing. I was like it's poor man, he's not kidding like he's in pain right now.

Speaker 3: 1:13:34

I'm sure he. Yeah, no, it's great, it's absolutely crazy. Um, yeah, no, there's, that was a. I uh watched a lot of the playoffs. I was not a huge basketball fan. Coach has been telling me to get back into it and I really enjoyed it. I thought it was great. Strangely enough, as a lover of sports, I started watching and then I'm like God, my favorite player watching was on the Mavericks. I'm like this guy, what's his name? Donchich, donchich, yeah, donchich, yeah. I'm like this guy, uh, uh, don uh, what's his name? Don Cheech, don Cheech, yeah, don Cheech, yeah. And I'm like Jesus Christ. Six foot seven Guy looks like a brick wall and and can dance. You know, has has hips. You know how I love nice oily hips, coach, absolutely. I just go wow.

Speaker 3: 1:14:18

Every time you get a big man that can, that can, that can dance, that can move and twist and stop on a dime, you just go wow, wow, just so impressive. But yeah, no, it's a great, it was a great moment. That's funny that you noticed that with Jason Tatum. That's yeah, that represents a quantum shift in thinking Seriously, and you have to admire the thought behind it. That represents a quantum shift in thinking and you have to admire the thought behind it. You know not that we won, but that we were in this position. Yeah, that's really cool. So we have Tina and Ibrahim talking about the while, while they're getting a health um inspection, the staff is is having those little. You know, it's like it's like mice going off to to talk, or it's like in a disney movie when you have mice at the bottom that have a sort of running commentary. Now we also we find another, another group here and who's this boss? Who's talking in the sort of kitchen?

Speaker 2: 1:15:32

We got a fact Marcus and sweeps faxing and the health inspector is coming in here. She's not nice, she's not your friend. She may smile, don't see the teeth, see she's. So again more mistrust of. I can promise you as somebody who has done financial auditing to an extent. Nobody's actually trying to be mean. There might be some people who are assholes, but by and large we don't get any more points for finding more things wrong. It doesn't help. Nobody's trying to sabotage anybody's business.

Speaker 3: 1:16:08

Yeah no, you strike me as a mischore. No funny business, boss. She's on mute. Oh yeah, no, I'm letting that one die.

Speaker 2: 1:16:19

That one just hung out there like a fart in the wind.

Speaker 3: 1:16:25

See those teeth, those are daggers. And then we cut back to Sydney. There's a lot of gamesmanship here, a lot of people with agendas. The point is, it's one of a hundred things we can do. She's still trying to pitch Carmi, sydney, sydney, sydney, sydney, sydney. Look, I'm sure this is all correct, okay, but it's a lot. It's a lot. The job you're describing goes way outside of I can afford to pay a sue which I can barely afford to pay already. But but I hear you okay, and every intention of turning this into an efficient, uh, respectable place of business run by adults, which is direct, who's that?

Speaker 2: 1:16:59

uh, directed out there, boss. That is entirely richie.

Speaker 3: 1:17:03

Richie is acting like a child and, as karm says, eventually richie comes over the top. Something this, this, the show does masterfully better, almost better than any show on television with the conflicting dialogue, but they do a great job with sound editing. Where it doesn't feel uh, you get to hear all the different competing voices and, as Kami is literally saying, eventually we're going to do this, he finishes with the word eventually It'll be run by adults. What do we hear over Top Boss? We hear Retchie's voice.

Speaker 2: 1:17:37

Oh my God, that's some fucking ass shit.

Speaker 4: 1:17:41

So before we move on because that was that again made me laugh he also says we're gonna make it efficient, respectable, run by adults, which says it's none of those three things now. So as much as we may be looking at richie and his pushback, he's not wrong in experiencing that he's being told you suck, you don't know shit. And it's not true that he don't know shit, and I think that's part of the rub too. It's like why is this place not respectable? Like there's something about what he's, what Karm is saying about himself, his upbringing, Mikey, I don't like or maybe some combination of those. But respectable did not have to go in with those other points, and all of them are are kind of insulting.

Speaker 3: 1:18:38

Yeah, no, no, well said, coach. The other, the other element that we uh sort of didn't cover is richie knows where the bodies are buried and carmy doesn't necessarily know that. So when somebody shows up, it can feel like you know the the sort of the bell ringing, uh, that you've been trying to avoid for all the time. Richie probably knows that there are health code violations that they've skirted or got away with Well, which is why it's not respectable, whereas Carmi doesn't know that.

Speaker 2: 1:19:11

I mean, this is the problem Richie thinks my value is. I know how to skirt the system. I know where the bodies are hidden. I know where we, you know, bring together whatever sort of pulley system to keep this thing above health code violations. I know where those are. So you need to listen to me and Carmi's like why the fuck did you do any of those things? That's all a terrible idea.

Speaker 2: 1:19:34

So this is like also a disconnect between the two of them. Carmi isn't saying I don't see your value. Karmie is saying what you have been doing isn't valuable because it's worse for the business.

Speaker 3: 1:19:45

Yeah, I mean this whole show is about disconnects. I mean it is unbelievable. And what we're going to see is there are certain ways of operating where, first of all, they have a disconnect because they disagree about this, where, first of all, they have a disconnect because they disagree about this. But we've talked about theoretical versus practical. But there are these elements where once we meet Uncle Cicero, we go wait, wait. It's not just practical versus theoretical, it's also like hyper practical. I talk a lot about the social, social control and how I like that.

Speaker 3: 1:20:25

The players in hockey police themselves in the gray areas, and I've mentioned that many, many, many times ad nauseum, but it's the only sport I know of where that happens and there's so many gray areas in life. So between the monthly visits or ron's, whatever, a biannual visit, there is tons of gray area where these guys have had to, mikey's had to make do and that's where you have like an alternative of sort of legal system or system of order which is presented by the um in the ciceros of the world. So we will get to that. But of course, richie's reacting to the fact that there was an infraction. Does anybody know how dangerous this is? What's going on? Richie's trying to talk his way out of it.

Speaker 3: 1:21:12

I discovered a large hole in the tile. It looks like former gas line next to the stovetops. Not only was it not properly drywalled and caulked, but someone clogged the hole with napkins and then proxied over it with some kind of plastic. Richie's like don't look at me. Grease seeped into the napkins and the proxy became unproxied. What does that mean? Carmi wants to ask. It's a potential cross-contamination. Additionally, no hot water in the hot water stations. And Sid tries to like like oh wait, uh, I know that. You know, richie, they're all talking over each other. Trying to make sense of this. I told chicago ron a hundred times, um, and then there's that mansplaining thing that happens here, uh, where uh never happens on our podcast. Uh, isn't that right, boss? Um, don't worry about, I don't know, I'm not interested yeah, I was waiting for that cue.

Speaker 3: 1:22:07

Um, no, no, uh, but but where she just talks over the, the woman, and and says like oh wait, you're just gonna, okay, you're gonna talk over me and take longer, okay. Like she's like actively, like oh, that's, are you for real, like you are an ogre, you are like like, am I hearing this? She can't even believe in her worldview that a guy, a troglodyte, troglodyte like this exists.

Speaker 2: 1:22:33

Um, it doesn't matter, uh that last one I'm going to push back on a little bit. I don't think that sydney is I bit. I don't think that Sydney is unfamiliar with people like Richie. I think that she just thinks that he's an asshole. The idea that Sydney, living in Chicago, would not have come across a Richie at some point in her life seems pretty unrealistic yeah, but but doesn't it feel like they?

Speaker 3: 1:23:04

okay, yes, that's, I'm sure you're right. I would think that in her experience, especially of late, uh, they would be a dying breed in, in sort of um, you know, in restaurants where she's she's worked. So it may be a surprise for her to like be back in a place where it's like, wow, I guess it's a factor of where she is rather than, uh, or not those men exist.

Speaker 2: 1:23:21

Well, no, because we just saw at the beginning of the episode that the New York chef was a total fucking asshole and was screaming at people and talking over people and being demeaning and belligerent. Like because it has a slightly different vibe to it, I don't think that it's any less familiar to her. I think that she just thinks like wow, you're being a real dick.

Speaker 3: 1:23:42

Wait, men are still assholes, Even in fancy restaurants.

Speaker 2: 1:23:48

Even if you worked at AVEC, you might still find I'm not saying anything about the staff there. I've been in many times. It's lovely. I'm just saying maybe somebody's an asshole.

Speaker 3: 1:23:56

Well, that's unfortunate Happens. Health code states that any sick near a prep area needs instant hot water, needs to deliver hot water instantly to prevent the spread of bacteria, which you know. I haven't even delivered the big one yet and you're like, oh God, there's a big one. Karmie's got his head in his hands, richie's trying to talk his way out of it. Karmie's like, oh shit, what's the big one?

Speaker 4: 1:24:21

And what is the big one? Uh here, uh, coach. Someone left a pack of cigarettes on the stovetop near the burners. Nervous laughter. Not only very dangerous, but also a potential contaminant, motherfucker motherfucker commie says to richie yeah, like her and and don't actually say it again, you fucking idiot. You're about to get fucking power washed, cousin, which I'm not familiar with, but I'm pretty sure you don't want to have happen to you that's, that's a that.

Speaker 3: 1:24:56

What is he saying there? Coach for for people who don't speak? Washing allegories.

Speaker 4: 1:25:02

I assume it means that he's going to blow him so far back that it would be like one being physically power washed. It sounds not good, it sounds not good at all. Physical violence. Unfortunately, these violations leave me no choice. I award you a C Woo Richie. No, no, no, no, no, no, wait, no, no, no, no. He puts Karn, puts his hands up like she is passing around. Arsenic, like everyone, like a bomb has been dropped here. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:25:38

Everyone knows like this is a death knell has now been sounded. So, um, yeah, poor sid. I didn't even notice that. Sid looks like she's about to puke. Um, yeah, it's, it's. It's obviously like the worst. Um, I was once in the middle of eating at a fat burger when I realized there was a c in the window. That was an interesting moment in my life. I had to really start looking at my choices and decisions. Uh, at that point, um, but yeah, that's actually that's true.

Speaker 3: 1:26:08

I really did look up and go oh, you just like drop, yeah like okay, um, but but yeah this coach. This is a. This is a knock on a potential knock on the show, because this is apparently an LA and New York thing. La County Meanwhile I think it's a Dade County. I want Boswell to let us know Chicago doesn't have this rating system, Got it? But I thought it was a mechanism that the writing staff used to give a visual representation of the situation From whence we begin.

Speaker 4: 1:26:40

Yeah, I thought that for sure. Writing staff used to give a visual representation of the situation where they, where we are, from whence we begin. Yeah, right, I thought that for sure. Also a c, with all this sort of academic versus, blah, blah, blah a c is actually in in school. A c is a passing grade, so so, but no one. I saw a talk with John Wooden once where he said when he was an English teacher, it was amazing that everyone felt that a C was fine for the neighbor's kid but not for theirs, and so there's something about getting a C. That's like she didn't close them down.

Speaker 3: 1:27:17

But Coach a C is an F A C is an F a c is enough in the in this rating this establishment does not comply with the minimum sanitary standards.

Speaker 1: 1:27:30

Correct so yeah, that is enough, that is a failing grade, right, um, I reward you.

Speaker 3: 1:27:36

I love that she rewards them. I reward you a, c and the place goes apeshit. Everybody, carmen won't touch it. He backs away. No, no, no, that's some hood shit. Marcus says that's, that's some hood shit. Like sydney looks like she's gonna throw up. She can barely breathe. You know what? I'm gonna cock that shit right now. She says it doesn't matter how fast you do it, I can't come back for at least test for 30 days. It was like five minutes, don't touch that.

Speaker 4: 1:28:04

Richie says like do not do not yeah, until you touch it, it's still hers.

Speaker 3: 1:28:10

That's like a court summons.

Speaker 4: 1:28:12

Yeah, exactly, he's just like oh God, oh God.

Speaker 2: 1:28:16

Yes, although much like at court summons, if, if you don't touch the subpoena, you still have to show up like that whole. You've been served. Now you need to go to court Now. If they try to serve you three times and they can't get you, they're like all right, well, we made an attempt and we sent some shit to their house, so Is that right? It's a misconception. There might be like one or two jurisdictions out there, but for most court and federal levels you can't just be like I didn't touch it.

Speaker 4: 1:28:44

There's a non-zero chance. I'm wanted. No, I'm kidding, this is a joke. I'm sitting there. The number of times cock was said here and no one made an actual cock joke. I was stunned by In this crowd. I was waiting for somebody to go in a cock joke. I thought there was?

Speaker 3: 1:29:00

Wasn't there to go in a cock? I thought there was, wasn't there.

Speaker 2: 1:29:03

Let me fucking call it comes later.

Speaker 4: 1:29:06

Oh.

Speaker 2: 1:29:06

I will also mention that, um, uh, new girl did do this with the uh quick hardening cock episode, so it just that has happened. And I think maybe I'm cranking fingers one time, Um one other thing. Do you say cranky anchors?

Speaker 4: 1:29:23

That's a pull.

Speaker 2: 1:29:23

Wow, I'm pretty sure that Stephen Colbert called a hardware store asking for different kinds of cocks.

Speaker 4: 1:29:32

That's funny, so you watched cranky anchors. Oh for sure. Oh yeah, coach, you watch cranky anchors too. I mean not religiously, but you have seen.

Speaker 2: 1:29:40

Yeah, I mean, like there's the one where, um uh tracy morgan is uh trying to get into a country club and he's like oh this is racist. Oh, this is racist.

Speaker 3: 1:29:51

So wait, is this? Is this because I'm fascinated? So not that I've seen the show I've seen it. I know I know a little bit about it, but it seems like a show that's not a show that you would say oh, I'm going to record this and go back and watch Cranky. It seems like you're already high and it comes on, and then you watch it.

Speaker 4: 1:30:11

I will not claim because I don't remember specifically and I'm sure I was high sometimes when I watched it, but I will say that wasn't why Prank phone calls was definitely for me a brand of foolishness that I was like, yeah, I'll listen, I'm trying to remember the guy like what was the jerky voice?

Speaker 4: 1:30:32

that's the one I was trying to remember. You put his face to that hood. You say you gotta buy I. I used to fucking fall over laughing at these idiots and people they would call. This is not a thing anymore, by the way Poor kids today don't know the beauty of a good prank phone call or shoving someone in a pool.

Speaker 3: 1:30:52

That part Can't just push anyone in a pool.

Speaker 2: 1:30:56

Also, it sucks. Destroy a $1,500 computer.

Speaker 4: 1:30:59

Yeah, seriously, that's not a thing anymore, because yeah, they's destroy a fifteen hundred dollar. Yeah, don't, don't, yeah, seriously, yeah, that's not a thing anymore, because yeah, they've got a computer in their pocket.

Speaker 2: 1:31:07

I should also mention because I am bringing up any Chicago errors. We'll say the city of Chicago does not say this restaurant is not safe for you to eat at and then lets you continue operating for 30 days. That's not a thing that happens. If you fail the health code like if you have too many health code violations they shut you down immediately and I think they come back in like a week to see if you've gotten them. But you don't just put a warning in the window that's like hey, watch out, can't promise you're not going to die if you eat here.

Speaker 3: 1:31:41

They make you stop beware I was hoping you would weigh in on that. I mentioned that this, this system, uh is not. Uh is an la and new york thing and not necessarily a chicago thing, but but still, I, I think, I, I do think it was a mechanism, you know, to visually represent yes, no, I, I 100.

Speaker 2: 1:32:00

I am okay with and into the way that they represent it. I just for the sake of anybody touring coming to Chicago, if you're visiting, we don't let rat houses just stay open. When we know about them, we say you've got to stop selling food until you get this cleaned.

Speaker 3: 1:32:18

Okay, so thank you. Thank you, the the good. Is it, dade county?

Speaker 4: 1:32:22

no, it's um cook county wait, what is it, dade?

Speaker 3: 1:32:26

county miami here uh, miami I was. I was thinking where, where are all the criminals from dade county, cook county, um, so it's cook county, um and um, uh. This is where this is where tempers flare because, um, uh, carmi is so, he's so fucking pissed and he slams the sea onto Richie Cause. Richie left the. He left his fucking cigarettes on the store. That is the biggest. No, no, how dumb do you have to be to do that? This fucking guy Yep and he says what coach?

Speaker 4: 1:33:06

Bitch at me. You want to run this place, you fucking slob. So we're on it now, right and it's. You know, this is it. This is the core of the whole thing. Like you don't know what the fuck you're doing. No, you don't know what the fuck you're doing. So you don't know what the fuck you're doing. No, you don't know what the fuck you're doing, so you know who's gonna put it in the fucking window. You put it in the window.

Speaker 3: 1:33:25

You put it in the window. You put it in the window.

Speaker 4: 1:33:27

You own this shit. No, it's your restaurant, right, big guy, you do it right. I mean, it's got that shit. Oh well, fyi, I'm not your fucking gopher. See, this is all of it. You cocked it up. You're gonna caulk it out. Okay, there's my joke. I, I did, I did forget that that was there it is. Yeah. Um well, I would love to, but I but, uh, my license is expired Is expired, right.

Speaker 4: 1:34:00

And then Sidney reminds us you drove in this morning, sidney, you want to help, you can take him. So now I thought this was great. By the way, on a mechanical, got to get this show working level. It was brilliant to set this up, to set up the dynamic. Sidney wants to get in there and help okay, great. And then also, richie can't drive. And you now take these two characters, who would choose any other fucking character in this show to be with, and put them together and go off. You go, yes. I thought like great job in the midst of all this chaos. Great, great job, yeah. And then he says he'll take an uber surge rate fucko, which I thought was I love that, yeah, yeah, no, no, thank you, I don't know.

Speaker 3: 1:34:52

I'm like why is richie protesting? He's so he can't drive himself. But no, I'm not gonna have sydney drive, like no, no, no, like that's. But I'm like what is it? What is what? What's your key protest here, guy? I think, I think it's I'm.

Speaker 4: 1:35:06

You know, I think part of it is you don't tell me what to do. So at this point, if it was raining and he said, take an umbrella, fuck you, I like rain. I mean, I think there's part of that I see, okay, but this is all uber. Thank you, yeah, he's. You know I a big boy, I don't need somebody to take me to the goddamn hardware store.

Speaker 2: 1:35:21

Yes, it feels emasculating to him and Surge Raids.

Speaker 3: 1:35:25

Fucko is a pretty good line.

Speaker 2: 1:35:26

That's a pretty good line In the same way that you said before that like. Richie can't say these sandwiches are fucking amazing and be against what Carmi is doing.

Speaker 3: 1:35:35

Richie can't say I'm running everything great and get a fucking C, like can't say I'm running everything great and get a fucking c, like this is the flip side of that, and so this is why car me can now pull rank and be like oh, you got us to see you fucking fix it, that's your thing, fine, but I'm taking my car. What again? Like yelling at the back of miss shore, yes, okay, I'll. I will be driven, uh, by someone younger than me, because I'm a fuck up who doesn't have a license, but I'm taking my car, and to which sydney responds what coach?

Speaker 4: 1:36:06

I, I don't care, which I also thought was great. I, I love sydney, so I'm very curious to learn more down the line as to why people don't like sydney, because I think sydney is very funny. Oh, she's great.

Speaker 3: 1:36:19

I think my assumption is my assumption is, we wouldn't agree with the people that don't like as a I got you element of society that we probably are at loggerheads with.

Speaker 3: 1:36:32

Um, this is, this is funny. He's that broke that that took him out. The search for the sir that's where that was the winning argument. Surge rates fuck, oh, like he's that broke that. That that took him out. Like that's where he stopped protesting jesus christ. And then we hear in the background you know, carmy goes to pick up the sea off the ground. And what does fact say in the background? Boss, I graduated with a c and tina says what coach we know which?

Speaker 4: 1:37:00

again, I love these people. I love the dynamic, I love the like hard-hitting, like nobody gives a fuck about your feelings, but they all clearly love each other, like everyone comes back again tomorrow, and I just fucking love that. This is such a family. This is such a family. It's just great.

Speaker 3: 1:37:22

So there's a noise that's driving Carmi crazy and he says Fac, fix it, I will fix it. Fac always fixes it. The kid comes in, they break it. What happens? I fix the balls. Fac always fixes the balls, fix it, I'll fix the balls. It's like a total. It's just driving me crazy. Everyone's got their own personality and then, as a camera move, we let everybody leave screen and we zoom into the king size sapphire box of cigarettes.

Speaker 4: 1:37:59

By the way, which also strikes me as a bit of a class. You know, know, talk about gentrification. Um, now, not to say, you know, only poor people smoke cigarettes. But I do think, like cigarettes are marketed in certain areas, whatever, like, I think the fact that everybody here literally goes out for this cigarette break is, uh, it's something that we're commenting on in the midst of all this chaos.

Speaker 2: 1:38:17

Well, I would like to point out in the best possible way chefs are, as my younger sister, who spent a lot of time in restaurants, can tell you, degenerates by and large. I say that with a lot of love. I don't think that chefs are bad people.

Speaker 2: 1:38:34

I get it but there is an aspect where you work all night, you stay up after that, you don't eat yourself, you smoke too much, you don't take time for like. When I say degenerate, I mean like you are not doing a nine to five. That is not your life when you're a chef or when you make your career in the restaurant industry. So there's a little bit where it's like, yeah, I'm gonna smoke my fucking cigarettes, but I just I just had to play 86 meals in 30 minutes, I'm gonna go have a fucking cigarette I have yeah, for sure yeah, and as someone who, uh, I smoked once upon a time, uh, nicotine cures what ails you.

Speaker 3: 1:39:13

It's a, it's a, it's a hell of a drug. Oh boy, it fixes just about everything. I remember when, uh, in the days uh, I was much, much, much younger, when, um, I was never like a huge, huge, huge smoker. But I remember thinking like, uh, man, it's good when you, it's good when you're hungry and you don't have any food to eat, and it's good when you've eaten and you're stuffed. And it's good when you're lonely. And it's good when you're with people, and it's good when you're like jesus christ, nicotine like well, yeah, fucking hog. It's good when you're with people and it's good you're like jesus christ, nicotine like well, yeah, fucking hog.

Speaker 3: 1:39:43

It's like heroin, it's like you know, this is, like you know, hard to knock it out of the gate. Uh, not that I'm advocating heroin, but it has that, uh, that addictive quality where you're like, yeah, I can, I can put this in any situation, um, and uh, sort of, you know, here's what else. Uh, we, we slam to richie getting into his own car in the passenger seat Such fucking bullshit. Sid is getting in the driver's seat, the keys are jingling. Can you hold this? She gives him something to hang on to while she sets up and gets the car started. Then there's this great line we get Counting Cr of music here, which, uh, is definitely a choice. Um, she shifts it, uh into, tries to shift it into a drive. He's like you got to wiggle it. Oh, I should have known that I had to wiggle it. That's on me, that's on me. I don't wiggle it. Um, and then I love this. I I laughed out loud. Every time I see this, I laugh out loud.

Speaker 3: 1:40:39

Every time I see this, I laugh out loud. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Coach. What does Richie say? We don't get a shot of the vehicle, but it's Richie's vehicle and we can imagine what his vehicle looks like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And what does he say?

Speaker 4: 1:40:50

here. I wasn't expecting company. By the way, these Army's Cups are from different visits. I cackled, I cackled and then I cackled, and then her topper, which is not a topper I shouldn't put it that way but it is in the function of the show. I respect that. I can respect that. I mean, is it better that you made many trips to Arby's Multiple trips?

Speaker 3: 1:41:13

to Arby's.

Speaker 4: 1:41:15

Is that an upgrade on what's going on here? And that through those multiple trips, none of the cups made it out of the fucking cart? Like it's just a funny, like he just tried anything to salvage any shred of dignity he might be able to hold on to although of course, the going past the additional step to say these are from multiple trips.

Speaker 2: 1:41:35

Like, obviously I one time was picking up Mexican food for my entire family, so it was like I don't know 17 tacos and some tostadas and chips and salsa and guac and whatever else. And as I'm getting through the entire thing and I was like then one uh, chicken, taco dinner, rice and beans, blah, blah, and at the end she was like, okay, that'll be 76 dollars to for here to go. And she was like okay, that'll be $76 for here to go. And I was like can you imagine if I said for here, if I sat down with the 27 tacos that I just ordered for myself and just started eating Because I'm here, it's just me.

Speaker 3: 1:42:12

You want to join me? Did you think that this?

Speaker 2: 1:42:14

would be for here? How?

Speaker 4: 1:42:17

That's like a built-in dad joke.

Speaker 1: 1:42:25

I've only done it a couple times, but where you do like the whole family's order and then turn and go.

Speaker 4: 1:42:28

You guys want anything.

Speaker 3: 1:42:28

It's just such a like yes, it's just a that's like a layup of a dad joke it is. It's brutal. Reminds me of a midnight run um, where the guy's booking a ticket and move the film midnight run and he's smoking a cigarette and she goes, smoking or non. You guys take a fucking guess take a wild fucking guess that's funny I need to watch.

Speaker 4: 1:42:48

I haven't watched that in literally decades.

Speaker 3: 1:42:50

I remember loving that movie oh my god, it's the movie I've seen, the most of that was the movie I need to come home.

Speaker 3: 1:42:56

Oh, I've seen it. I know you loved it a thousand times the script is so good man, you will die. When you see how tight the script is, you will go, oh my God. From a writing standpoint Right. But yeah no, that was the one. I would come home after you know, in college, after going out or whatever, and I'd just throw it, just press play, and then that would be on the background. Carmi puts his Chicago Board of Health C into the window over the top of the montage of Counting Crows playing Quickly. Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:43:30

Before because this is huge, so quickly. I mean, what's about to happen is huge. Not my point, but I like that they had Carm put the C there Because ultimately, as pissed as he might be, it's our C, it's our C and you can, you know I blame you blah, blah, blah, but it's our C and I think that to me that showed some ownership of it, that he wasn't really just gonna pretend that was Richie C all by himself.

Speaker 4: 1:44:01

Also, I used to know a comic that went by Richie the C and this is disorienting, so we got to get away from Richie C.

Speaker 3: 1:44:08

Okay, we'll take that off the table. I thought it meant oh, this is my place. I'm putting the C in the window.

Speaker 3: 1:44:16

This is my place. We get a nice shot, so we get. We get a nice shot, so we get the camera. Wise, we're outside through the window looking in as carme uh, attaches the seat of the window, and then we pivot and now we're inside, uh, with carme in um, out of focus. We see a hand tap on the window and and we, we rise up over carme as a nice camera move. And who do we see standing there? But, uh, beloved legendary actor oliver platt, um, and who is he?

Speaker 3: 1:44:47

uh, because whoever he is boss car me says uh, shit obviously a beloved family friend okay, um, we cut to the uh hardware store, um, and this is uh, I, I I've I've noticed uh people uh chicago, and saying that, yeah, this is um, a lot of people will complain. Uh, you know, there's that whole thing where you get local pride in your show. It's oh, you know, people wouldn't have to drive to a hardware store, they'd go here or whatever. They would do that whole thing. But apparently this particular hardware store on the North side is the one to go to. I don't really know oh that's cool which one this is.

Speaker 2: 1:45:27

But people said yeah, I wonder if that's Clark Devon. I could look it up. That might be Clark and Devon. Yeah, yeah, the hardware store itself, because it's called clark and devon.

Speaker 3: 1:45:39

It are the streets that it's on oh okay, uh, I don't remember what they said, but they said yeah, this is, this is accurate in that that's probably where you go. Uh, now we get a pretty generic scene about richie looking for the things. Why don't we ask somebody? No, he's not gonna ask somebody. And then he's taking he's not going to ask somebody and then he's complaining. I'm taking direction from a toddler. He's using Sidney as someone to hear all of his complaints. There's nothing more charming than someone complaining. It's really really great, especially when you don't care for them and don't want to be there and are forced to drive them. My entire life I had to listen to everybody, everybody acting all worried about him all the time. He's a baby don't get car me into trouble. You know I was a baby too once. Sydney. Nobody gave a fuck listen.

Speaker 4: 1:46:32

One, it's funny. But two, I think this stuff is so real. I've read stuff about how like you can get at any age, you gather siblings back together and everybody falls back into their childhood roles. Oh yeah, you know, and and so it's funny. But also I felt for richie here, like there's probably a level of like everybody talks to me like he's not. Okay, I'm gonna a comparison, not because I think he's the equivalent character, but this element of it. Fredo and the Godfather yeah, and I get where Fredo's like hey, I'm the motherfucking big brother man. Like when's somebody going to talk to me with some goddamn respect, you know?

Speaker 4: 1:47:14

like even though I'm like, yeah, but Fredo, you are kind of a fuck up, am afraid. Are you all kind of a fuck up, like I also get his experience of it, which is like, why am I being treated like this? Um, I also think sometimes, having been the one who experienced a fair amount of survivor's guilt, getting to go from flatbush to a place like yale, where there can be a feeling like, oh, look at, mr gets it all. I remember having somebody tell me about the, the golden spoon, which I thought was funny, that like they were so far from the idea of a silver spoon that they got the phrasing wrong, which I thought was great.

Speaker 4: 1:47:47

But because I'm an asshole, but but like the golden spoon I was born with, I was like what the fuck are you taught? But to them you got to go to school, you got to do all these things, like Like. To them it was like I was little Lord Fauntleroy to them, you know, and it was a real thing. So, anyway, I really did feel for Richie here, like he is, and he did go to get the cock Like he plans to fix the thing. It just sucked how it all went down.

Speaker 3: 1:48:17

It's also a very clever way. His bitching and complaining is a clever way to give us a little more, absolutely it while him beat, while he's active visually. So there's some dynamism in the scene because they're walking through a uh, a busy, uh, hardware store, but he's also there's some exposition happening too, which is a very clever use of of the material. Um, since, like, I'm sorry about that, but none of that messed up the wall that we're here to fix, she's trying to refocus him. Fuck that, I'm not letting him work at the restaurant. When he was a kid, you think I give a fuck where that dude works? It was fucking Mikey. Wait, why didn't Michael want him to work at the restaurant? Because he's a little bitch, probably?

Speaker 4: 1:48:59

Okay Again. Awesome work at the restaurant, because he's a little bitch. Probably okay again. Awesome writing, because that question had already been my question right. This whole time I've been like I don't what, like what. What went on there? What went on there and her asking it was critical. But he cannot engage that question. The show is hinging on. We got to keep that question going, so his reaction is perfect. Yes, it's a perfect reaction.

Speaker 3: 1:49:27

It's one of the funniest revelations we ever had on this show is when coach uh admitted that he likes gossip and he'll gossip with a motherfucker and he loves to do it. And I was laughing because sydney, one second ago, was trying to refocus. She's like, yes, but that is not uh, germaine to the. And he's like, yeah, and mikey probably do it.

Speaker 4: 1:49:45

She's like, oh, wait, wait, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. Yeah, true, you know, I took that an entirely different way.

Speaker 2: 1:49:55

I thought, oh, she had done so much research on the restaurant as a business that she's now recognizing she needs to do research on the restaurant as a functional unit. She has a business plan, but the business plan does not take into account the fact that the owner and executive chef was prevented from working in this restaurant until his brother died. I'm going to oh no, no, no Just that there's some shit that when I think.

Speaker 2: 1:50:25

When Carmi said earlier like we can't do that yet, she felt frustrated and now she's trying to figure out why it is that they can't do it yet.

Speaker 3: 1:50:35

And what does she ask here? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 1:50:37

So like what was the deal?

Speaker 3: 1:50:38

with.

Speaker 2: 1:50:38

Michael, which is a good question when his ghost is hanging over everything. Uh and richie says uh. He shot himself in the head about four months ago so I think that he says it is important.

Speaker 4: 1:50:54

Yeah, how he says it is also important he says it like. Also, I have friends who order the spaghetti on Wednesday. Oh, here's the cock. And I'm like I'm sorry, what? And her reaction reflects my reaction.

Speaker 3: 1:51:10

And we never take the camera off of her Right. This is not a two-shot, this is just Sid, and sometimes he will blur through frame, but we are here to watch her reaction and her uh, information gathering. If you, if you take the boss perspective, um, and she continues, boss, what does she say?

Speaker 2: 1:51:28

said were you guys related on your mom's side or like your dad's? And he says, neither, he was my best friend. Which is like, oh, obviously, obviously you're somebody who grew up as your brother's best friend, is somebody you refer to as cousin now makes sense. And then he uh immediately goes directly to all the different cocks. Boom, there's that.

Speaker 3: 1:51:53

Shit told you, yeah yeah, he's like looking at an end cap or whatever. And and what does he do here, paul?

Speaker 2: 1:52:05

Silicone, adhesive caulk, acrylic caulk. And she's like are you just reading the labels? Okay, we got a rubber sealant. I'm going to go find somebody who works here and he's like no, no, no, I know what I'm doing, I got this. Obviously, I've got this. He doesn't.

Speaker 4: 1:52:21

No, no, I know what I'm doing. I got this. I could, obviously I've got this. He doesn't. And well right, he ain't got it. Like there's nothing, like somebody telling you I got it, I got it when you're watching them and going you ain't got it. I hate to break this to you, but there's. There's a quote I thought of earlier and it's like distrust of expertise that I and it's. There's a cult of ignorance in the United States and there's always been the strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge. That's Isaac Asimov, and I feel one. That's my experience of every fucking day of my life in this country, but also it's so much that seed like of course asimov.

Speaker 3: 1:53:07

By the way, einstein said there are two things that are infinite the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe yet. That's einstein. It's amazing, it's not like yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not like some dude yeah, no, no, no.

Speaker 4: 1:53:26

I I you know I get it, but I lack, because that is so much what's going on here? It's like just ask someone who knows?

Speaker 3: 1:53:37

this is also technology killed this Waze and all the mapping programs killed this joke. So this is the analog version of this is men rolling down their window to ask for directions when they're lost. I'm not lost. I'm not lost. Yeah right, and that doesn't happen anymore now that you have or at least as long as you have the, if you're connected to the digital world.

Speaker 4: 1:53:59

My father-in-law God bless him refuses to use um any of that technology.

Speaker 3: 1:54:06

Oh, is that right. That's how they get you.

Speaker 4: 1:54:09

Wait why. It's just one of those ways to get in the car and I'm like, all right, that's fine.

Speaker 3: 1:54:21

It'll take as long as it takes to get there. Am I doing this today as a person with adhd? I will say I've said this before on the on the podcast there was no quantum, there was no app that personally changed my life more than ways or mapping approach where I would know exactly that I was getting the optimal way to get from a to b. Um, this is. This is like right out of a patriot on amazon. They're very difficult to transfer something from a to b, but I would know not only how long it would like the best way to get there that wouldn't be lost along the way, or like take an indirect route, but also that I would know how long that trip would take, based on real-time statistics that were crowdsourced, would be like, yeah, usually it's 40 minutes, but it's going to take you an hour and 10 because of the current traffic. And I was like, oh my god, like I haven't been. I haven't been like anything since. It's like that much of a of a change, because I was like always unsure. I'm one of those people that you know they say like uh, juliana, can you can be out in the middle of the woods and she can kind of just look and be like hey, north is that way and I'm like, wait, what Like? Are you looking at the sun Like she's like always knows direction? Some people are gifted with that. Uh, I can't, I can't tell, um, but yeah, that's uh, which is not great for the situation, that's it.

Speaker 3: 1:55:43

We cut back to the beef. We're sort of shooting from inside. Looking at the front window, the original beef is Chicagoland. It is the sign facing outwards. We're getting it in reverse, backwards, mirrored in our screen, and in front of that, inside the restaurant, we have car me with his hand on his face, where you go, oh god, and he looks like he's suffering and coach, walk us through, uh, what he's having in this conversation with the gentleman the oliver platt. Anytime I see oliver platt I go, oh my god, like, thank you, thank you something good is about to happen on screen, so much.

Speaker 3: 1:56:22

Yeah, so fucking good when he is sitting here with a drink and Carmi's got him a drink and it looks like he just finished a sandwich or something and they're having a little chat walk us through this.

Speaker 4: 1:56:33

And then you know the produce bill is due. You know, and the power comes in and I can't build enough of a parachute. You know, and the power comes in and I can't build enough of a parachute. You know, even if we got this place packed, that's only. And then the response is it's exhausting listening to this, and I imagine it would be. And then so Carm responds you asked me what's going on Correction? I asked where he didn't say correction. I added that I asked where he didn't say correction. I added that I asked where you've been. Yeah, you're looking at it. This is where I've been wow.

Speaker 2: 1:57:07

And now we don't know enough about oliver blatt's character yet to understand exactly what's going on with this. But when he said where have you been? We remember from the first episode that fax said I'm sorry I couldn't make it to mikey's funeral, and he was like I, it's fine, I wasn't there either. So this is not just like what have you been doing the past two weeks, it's like hey, remember how your brother died and you weren't around for that. Like I, you expect him to say like so have you called your mom? Yeah?

Speaker 4: 1:57:34

at some point in this conversation.

Speaker 3: 1:57:35

That's the sort of role that he is there's a, there's a quality that the character, uh, that oliver platt is playing um has, which is he's got some gravitas. He has his hair pulled back. He's like sort of slicked back, uh, old school sort of do. Um, it's like a not quite a pompadour, but it it has. It has a cleanliness to it and a put together sort of look to it. Um, it that sort of informs who he is as a person. He's wearing glasses, he says Carm, this place is bullshit. So, boss, I'd like you to play Cicero Coach, you play Carm and let's just finish this scene, all right.

Speaker 2: 1:58:15

Carm, this place is bullshit. I mean you're never going to fix it, you can't start it fucked. You understand that right.

Speaker 4: 1:58:24

Is that really a question?

Speaker 2: 1:58:25

You're operating a business historically has a lower success rate than I don't know, chicago, fucking Bears. You're having a hard time keeping your vendors current and we're not even getting into the money I lent your brother.

Speaker 3: 1:58:48

I was like okay, yeah. I was like oh, all they do is keep adding stakes. I was like you did not just say you are not gonna come in here yeah like when, when my ass is in the fucking blender and now tell me I also have a loan nice fire.

Speaker 4: 1:59:00

Hold this gas for me, jesus christ they just like we were on sid.

Speaker 3: 1:59:07

We are on carmy in this shot where he's like like come again like what?

Speaker 4: 1:59:12

yeah, you see him processing I don't know. I didn't know michael, now he's michael, so I thought that was interesting. Like what the fuck? Did he do oh yeah, it's not Mikey, right? No more Mikey. What the fuck did he do? I didn't know. Michael took money from you. He took a lot of money from me, keep going boss, yeah Oof.

Speaker 2: 1:59:31

I mean cash infusions for this place, you know term loans which he never paid back.

Speaker 3: 1:59:43

And now I gotta hold you responsible. Okay, I was like, wait a second, you gotta hold me responsible. So I was like, okay, he's not a banker, like when you go, like that, that's like I made the shift. Yeah, I was like, wait, how the fuck am I responsible?

Speaker 4: 1:59:58

but Carmi's like, okay, I'm like oh yeah yeah, yeah, pretty quickly as soon as he said that I think it was the responsible line actually that made me go.

Speaker 3: 2:00:07

Oh, yeah okay, yeah I see I gotta hold you.

Speaker 4: 2:00:11

Yeah, I was like you are going to pay this money one way or the other.

Speaker 2: 2:00:14

Brother I actually love that you brought that up. Okay, so I don't want to jump anything too much, but because we just got that line also, we know that this guy's name is Uncle Jimmy Cicero Kulowski, which is a fucking lot People ask, if not from Chicago, asking if Uncle Jimmy is mobbed up. Uncle Jimmy Cicero is mobbed up People from here. When you say Cicero, you're like, oh, got it, yes, that is. It is where Al Capone hung out when he was doing all of his shit.

Speaker 2: 2:00:48

It's the town that he ran, because he couldn't be in Chicago actually and it's still got some pretty strong mob affiliations, but but. But. But we don't have a real mob, everybody is only sort of mobbed up. There are people that, like you, run a nightclub and it's pretty seedy, but normal people still go in there and nobody has been like. You're not a made man, you just kind of do some shit that's vaguely illegal. So Cicero's whole thing. I don't think that Chicago has an official mob anymore. I don't think that Chicago has an official mob anymore. It just has a group of dudes in questionable jackets lending people money and probably selling drugs.

Speaker 3: 2:01:29

Interesting. Yeah, okay, I mean, I'm sure that, yes, I would. So, certain man, this is going back a long time, but like there are certain cities that are open cities Chicago is not technically an open city, so it's like there is a official mob somewhere, sort of somebody owns something. We might not see it, it might not be on the surface as much, but like you definitely have this level yeah, yeah, yeah of person operating in conjunction with the public but that's the thing, is that behind him.

Speaker 2: 2:01:56

He answers to somebody I'm sure he does, but I don't think it's also number one it's not quite as lethal as it used to be. Like there was a big uh rico case in the 90s in new york that sort of dismantled a lot of the shit and there haven't been like the same level of hits and that kind of thing. Like you might still get killed, but that's usually because he pissed somebody off. I think like the level of it. The familiarity in chicago is that every single person I know who lives here, who also has like larger social networks, if you're like, hey, could you get me to somebody who is in the mob, do you know somebody who is mob adjacent? Every single person is like oh yes, oh 100 like I.

Speaker 1: 2:02:38

It used to be my uncle friend, but he's dead now.

Speaker 2: 2:02:40

So now who knows?

Speaker 3: 2:02:43

Yes, exactly right. Yes, that is a dynamic you know once upon a time. So one of the great advantages of what they call La Cosa Nostra, this thing of ours, the Italian organized Italian mafia, was a code of ethics that kept the thing running at a global level. And then, at a certain point, all over the world, you had an influx of people without ethics into the criminal community who were not beholden to any sort of code at all, and that changed the the face internationally of organized crime. That that being said, the social control aspect of it is what's interesting for the purposes of this show, because it is something like hey, you need something done. You know who are you going to turn to. You can't go to. You can't go to Miss Shore. She's not coming back for 30 days. She will not listen to an appeal of any kind.

Speaker 3: 2:03:47

So there are people that can get things done. What we have is Jimmy saying I got to hold you responsible and Kami saying okay, no pushback, no wait, what? Why the fuck? Nothing? Okay, right away. That was his response. I was like, oh man, who is this guy? And keep going. Finish the scene for me how much?

Speaker 2: 2:04:10

300 grand.

Speaker 4: 2:04:12

Jesus Christ, jimmy. Can we pause it for one second, because I said Jesus Christ before Carm in real time. I did too, Jesus Christ.

Speaker 3: 2:04:20

And then he said Jesus Christ before Carm. Yeah, in real time, I did too, I did too, I went Jesus.

Speaker 4: 2:04:22

Christ. And then he said Jesus Christ, Jimmy. I was like, exactly that is a lot of goddamn money. I don't give a fuck who you are, that is a lot of money.

Speaker 2: 2:04:32

So I think one of the most interesting things about that and I don't want to get too far away from this but when Jimmy says I got to hold you responsible and Karm says okay, it doesn't feel like there is fear, it feels like this is a familial obligation that Karm understands Like I don't think that.

Speaker 4: 2:04:49

Yeah, no, I don't think he thinks he's going to get his arm broken.

Speaker 2: 2:04:51

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, no no, I don't think that he ever was like, oh fuck, Jimmy's here to kill me, and so I think that that adds a really interesting dynamic to the fact that after Carmi says Jesus Christ, Jimmy's response is Jesus Christ is right. Car Like yes, that's a lot of fucking money. Why do you think I'm here talking to you?

Speaker 3: 2:05:12

Yeah, that's a lot of money for this little fucking hole in the wall, yeah 300 grand. If he said 50 grand, my, my butt would have like I was like what what? Yeah 25 grand, eight grand. Where am I gonna get eight grand? No, no, 300. A third, like approaching a third of a million dollars.

Speaker 2: 2:05:37

Yeah, you go like and a part of it for me was yeah, three hundred thousand dollars is a lot of fucking money, but it's also why the fuck did you give three hundred thousand dollars to michael?

Speaker 4: 2:05:49

well, that yeah like how it does bad.

Speaker 3: 2:05:52

So let's, let's let's, let's, ride out the scene and finish it.

Speaker 2: 2:05:54

You guys play your parts here and it's not like you put it in this place. Looking around, uh, still looks like some kid painted it with ass with his ass.

Speaker 3: 2:06:04

I I laughed so hard. I'm like I don't know what that means it still looks like some kid painted it with his ass.

Speaker 4: 2:06:10

What does that mean? Yeah, I had the same reaction like. I know what it means, and yet what?

Speaker 3: 2:06:14

yeah, not good, it's not. It's not a compliment, but um okay, people paint things with their ass apparently All right, keep going.

Speaker 2: 2:06:22

Look no disrespect, you know your brother. He was an animal, you know, surrounded by dickheads which should tell you something about the state of the restaurant, and then he lost his mind and he put you in a real tough spot, so that that's why he stopped by. He says I stopped by to see you. Uh, should have stopped by a long time ago, but you know, I guess I'm becoming forgetful should stop by to break your legs.

Speaker 3: 2:06:53

Should stop by to break your legs is what he is. What he says, um, and you know, I stopped by to see you. When he says I stopped by to see you. I go, oh okay, oh, that's nice. Oh thanks. Yeah, that's nice. I should have stopped by to break your legs, but you know, I guess I'm becoming forgetful.

Speaker 2: 2:07:14

I'm like oh oh, casual violence. Just shit up.

Speaker 3: 2:07:19

Broke.

Speaker 2: 2:07:22

There is no real threat behind it. There's absolutely no chance that Jimmy would ever break Carmi's legs. I think that when he says that he is saying you know what I'm supposed to be doing? This, this is the process.

Speaker 3: 2:07:36

Let's keep going, let's keep going.

Speaker 4: 2:07:43

Why'd you give him the money?

Speaker 2: 2:07:47

It's a very good question. You know, I don't know. He said he was going to franchise this place and we knew that was bullshit.

Speaker 4: 2:07:58

You still gave it to him. I loved him too. That line hit me hard. That line hit me hard and I don't even know these motherfuckers I'm.

Speaker 2: 2:08:12

Two episodes in that line hit me hard so look, yeah, let's just do the easy thing here and you sell it to me. No, no, you just said yeah.

Speaker 4: 2:08:20

Let's just do the easy thing here and you sell it to me. No, no, you just said restaurants are bad for business.

Speaker 4: 2:08:29

Who says I'm going to keep it as a restaurant. I'll get you the money, jimmy. All right, I promise you. So so many reactions here. The the break the legs thing I totally felt coming into all this because I was like I know that feeling of them's the rules, like I am already breaking my rules by not breaking your legs. So we already have a problem here. I like that part, but I also. Richie and Carm do the same thing from different places. They both, in the name of I, will make this restaurant work. I will not accept defeat of this restaurant are ignoring what I would call reality. You don't know what kind of caulk to use and you don't know what the fuck makes a good sauce, and you don't know what the fuck makes a good sauce, and you certainly don't know, mr, I can't even pay my sous chef. Have no fuck. How are you gonna come up with 300 grand? You can spin off this fucking sinking ship like how, how and I said how when we were watching.

Speaker 3: 2:09:56

I remember going how yeah, no, you said how out loud, how you wouldn't get that if you sold it to him. I remember going how yeah, no, you said how out loud, how you wouldn't get that if you sold it to him. I mean 300 grand.

Speaker 2: 2:10:04

If you gave him right now, you stop operation.

Speaker 3: 2:10:07

Yeah, you're not going to get that right now.

Speaker 4: 2:10:08

Yeah. So I just thought, anyway. I just thought, yeah, they're an interesting pair, these two, because what they do have in common is stubbornness. Mikey and Carmi, or or me, and Richie is what I've been oh, carmi and Richie, ok, got it.

Speaker 3: 2:10:29

This is fascinating because I was watching Carmi. They stay on Carmi as this realization taunts on him that not only did Mikey leave him and leave the world and and then give him a parting gift, the ultimate fuck you parting gift of now you get the place that I never would let you work at, but also here's some crippling debt to go along with it. Don't forget to babysit Richie. When we talk about the five stages of grief based on the Kubler-Ross model, we have denial, anger, bargaining, bargaining, depression and acceptance. It is tough to pinpoint where anyone at this restaurant is at any given time. You know, based on who they are, based on where they are. There's so much anger. I think carmy's like still probably in denial about like hearing oh, my god, I actually have with 300. You know what I mean. Like it's, it's just, it's just a lot to take in.

Speaker 3: 2:11:25

Um, I'm glad I loved him too is very, very, uh, is very telling as a, as a little insert in this, in this beat, though, because that would that's outside the framework of what you'd expect. Yeah, you know, it's like it's almost like a guy like cicero you go like all right, he's jimmy's. Like you know, sometimes those guys are not as honest about, uh, you know their their own foibles. There's a lot of blame shifting in the bear. Uh, it's, it's a, it's a masterwork of blame shifting all over the place. Even the people you like are gonna shift blame constantly and you expect them to be like well, he, well, he made me do it, but he's like yeah, I loved him too. That's a half-assed answer that it actually feels authentic.

Speaker 3: 2:12:07

Oh, I didn't think it was half-assed at all, I don't mean half-assed, like that's the wrong term. It's a very honest answer that you wouldn't expect from a guy. I expected him to shift plane. Well, mikey, what was I going to do? Let him start. I was expecting him to shift plane.

Speaker 2: 2:12:25

He's like fuck, I love you too.

Speaker 3: 2:12:26

He's like sort of you know at least own somebody.

Speaker 2: 2:12:31

This might be that my perception is being colored after the fact, because I know how the next this season and the next one play out Got it, but I never you know how the next this season next would play out. Um, got it, but I I I never pictured jimmy as somebody that would shift blame in that way that his role in this situation is to be the honest guy and that means that he's going to be the one shouldering a lot of responsibility for decisions made and he needs to stand in that. Okay, um, I think one of the other things is that you mentioned the five stages of grief. I think it's important to point out people don't think that you move from one to the next straight through and that then it is over. It is you bounce around through all these different things that are different reactions to grief that come up during different ways.

Speaker 2: 2:13:20

I think the part that I love so much about jimmy saying I gave him three hundred thousand dollars because I loved him too is how deeply the show is invested in loving not just flawed characters but bad characters, like people who make really serious, huge mistakes. The show still loves and, even though richie is like using slurs and being a total asshole. We it shows him and parmin close to each other and close emotionally and doesn't make us think that he is a villain, like he's not a, he's not the bad guy. He is a bad guy, but he's not the bad guy he's a prick.

Speaker 3: 2:14:03

There are a lot of people who were like I don't want to watch this show because I fucking hate that richie guy. See, I don't hate him.

Speaker 4: 2:14:08

It's interesting yeah, I don't hate him.

Speaker 3: 2:14:10

They. They use mechanisms to soften him. The call with his daughter softens him. When he saved car me, it softens him. You know, it's like certain things where you're like if you can do perspective taking and go well, you know he's not always wrong then yeah, that will soften his character. But he was very hard to like for a lot of people and that I perfectly that I get.

Speaker 2: 2:14:29

Like there are characters on tv shows where I'm like I just don't care for them. I don't want to name any right now because you have too many m's, but I get that. I think um one of the things that this show I love so much and I'll get into ways in which it details this later. But sometimes there is this idea that people think, oh well, I only like good people, I'm only a fan of good people more moral or more morally evolved. There is something where they're like well, I only like nice, I only like good in these ways and that presenting people who love people that have sharp edges doesn't make you morally inferior. Like the show never looks down on any of the characters and never looks down on them for caring about each other and I, even when they present us with difficult characters, is it is done with um a respect and an affection that I don't think we get on a lot of other shows no, and the show also doesn't look up to anybody.

Speaker 3: 2:15:32

The whole thing is it presents.

Speaker 3: 2:15:34

It doesn't take a position, it just expresses the humanity. It allows, it gives us a window into these personalities and, wherever they are on that sort of graded spectrum, it just presents them. It doesn't necessarily take a side, or for good or for bad, and in that way there's an equanimity to the whole thing. We bounce back to Richie and Sid in the car. They've ostensibly achieved the mission. Richie says well, shit, we're going to be in gridlock for over an hour because of your new best friend. Okay, I don't even know why you work. Sid says okay. He says I don't even know why you work for that little student which is, you don't have to know what Stunad means to know.

Speaker 3: 2:16:26

It's an Italian criticism, an Italian put down, and Sid has a position on that. I know why I work because he's good, which is like, oh my God. Like, whether you like it or not, he's incredibly talented and we could all learn a lot from him. You know he was one of food and wine's best new chefs. Oh, oh, we could learn all that. Oh my god, when he was 21,.

Speaker 3: 2:16:49

She says Richie's responding oh my god, he was one of food and wine's best new chefs. Oh my god, that changes everything. That's what you just told me. That changes everything. Um, it is so, God. Talk about just just that. That is. It's funny. Uh, sometimes you're in a conversation and you and you have more insight than the person you're with, or you had a business conversation and you've dealt with the customer more than maybe your coworker has, whatever and somebody pitches something and you're like that's not gonna that, one's not gonna work, like that's not the right pitch for this particular thing. And when, when uh sid says this, I'm like that you're barking up the wrong tree with his magazine accolades like he couldn't give. There's nothing he will give less of a fuck about than food and wines. Take on carmy that he knew when he was a little shit that everybody protected when nobody protected him.

Speaker 4: 2:17:45

Right. Yes, I had a boss who was excellent at sales. I am not, and so I'm always trying to learn and piece it together, but he would. One thing he did teach me was don't sell to yourself, and that's what she just did. If somebody told her that somebody was food and wine, then she'd be like whoa, really, don't sell to yourself. That's what she did.

Speaker 2: 2:18:09

Yes, but he said why are you even here?

Speaker 3: 2:18:17

She wasn't trying to sell.

Speaker 2: 2:18:18

That's a good point, he said what are you doing here? Because he's good.

Speaker 3: 2:18:19

Because he's good, it has value. Because's a good point. He said what are you doing here? That's a good point. Because he's good. Because he's good. Because he's good, it has value. Because food and wine says he's good, it has less value.

Speaker 2: 2:18:28

Yeah, but to go along with your point about how he knew who Carmi was when Carmi was a little shit and everybody protected him and babied him. That has nothing to do with how good you are as a chef or restaurateur. That means that you, richie, still think that Carmi is a little bitch, so you think he shouldn't be in charge because he's a little bitch. And what she's saying is no, he gets to be in charge because he's one of the best chefs in the country. So this is again what is being valued, what is being evaluated, and how there's the disconnect between I am a chef, sydney is a chef. Of course. That's why she's going to work for Carby. He came back and worked in her city at a sandwich shop where she could get a fucking job. Obviously, she's going to do that.

Speaker 3: 2:19:10

Yeah, no, no. She points out really good short-term memory there, richie, and she looks at him and there's this beat. She gives him a second. He's not even looking at her because he's not gonna make eye contact, because he would give away that he's being, you know, a transient jerk, uh, and she goes. You know the restaurant could be good, like, like, you know that, like I, like, I know, you know that she says like it doesn't have to be a place where the food is shitty and everybody acts shitty and feels shitty. Like it could be a good legit spot. Like that's her, like that's does this.

Speaker 4: 2:19:40

If you don't get us there, carmy gets us there well, yes, and is this, uh, uh, some sort of permutation of maureen mcnulty? Like there's a level on which I think richie can't even right. I'll go to a separate thing quickly. When I was a bartender in New Haven, we were the hot, hot spot at one point. I mean, like crazy, like us, like throwing juice bottles down the thing to make drinks, like it was we. Everybody came to our spot and they opened a new club I want to say it was called like the Key Club or some shit like that and everybody went over there. All of a sudden our club was a fucking ghost town.

Speaker 4: 2:20:25

So on another night this woman comes in and she's telling me about the place and it's this and it's that she goes.

Speaker 4: 2:20:29

It was so nice you wouldn't even think he was in new haven.

Speaker 4: 2:20:34

I remember, just like I continued the conversation I didn't point it out to her, but I went wow, what a way to think about the place where you come from, that your way of expressing how nice it is is to go. It's not even of this place from which I come, and to me part of what richie can't lean into the restaurant could be good, because part of him feels I'm not good. And if I and I'm probably has some and if I was good I would have saved mikey probably built in there, like I just feel like he can't do this right now. I don't think he can see it. I think, even if there's a part of him that would kind of go, that would be awesome if this place was awesome. I, if there's a part of him that would kind of go, that would be awesome if this place was awesome. I think there's part of him that is, quote unquote, accepted, that his lot in life is to be in shitty places with people who treat each other in shitty ways.

Speaker 4: 2:21:33

I mean show me how would he know that there's an old Well, no, I'm not blaming him for that, I'm just saying I think, no, no, I'm not blaming him for that.

Speaker 3: 2:21:41

I'm just saying I think that's a thing. No, no, no. I'm saying I don't think he's ever thought I can be in a place without shitty people. I don't think it's even occurred to him as a prospect.

Speaker 2: 2:21:49

I think that he hasn't felt shitty at the restaurant, I think up until Mikey, up until things got dark. For Mikey, that wasn't a bad place for him to be. I think that.

Speaker 4: 2:21:58

No, that's interesting. I agree, that's interesting.

Speaker 3: 2:22:01

I think you know I always. It's only shitty since he's not in church.

Speaker 2: 2:22:04

Anytime that you say who would have taught them, that I always ruffle, because my feeling is people are so active in their own learning and their own understanding of the world, even when they don't do things in ways that we necessarily would think of as learning, would think of as learning.

Speaker 3: 2:22:19

I know Coach has alluded to your hyper-optimism.

Speaker 2: 2:22:25

Everyone will just know everything through a school of hard knocks. I don't think that that's hyper-optimism, though I think that to imagine that people are sheltered by their own shitty upbringings isn't necessarily right either.

Speaker 3: 2:22:45

I'm just saying vocationally. I don't think he has probably worked in a place where there wasn't this tone.

Speaker 2: 2:22:50

I don't think that this tone existed before Carmi got back, I think up until then, even when things were getting dark with Mikey. I think everybody has been there for as long as they have and they are staying there even though they don't fucking know Carmi Most of them don't they don't know what's going on with it, they don't know what's happening. I think that they're staying because it felt like a family place to them. Think about how, in the first episode, they say Tina, what do you think thankful for?

Speaker 3: 2:23:26

And she said all of you motherfuckers, I don't think that you say that. A place where you don't feel loved by your co-workers, no, no. But I think if tina probably hasn't worked in a place that doesn't have that environment, I think as long as richie is in is in the in the work space, it's gonna feel, you know, confrontational and shitty and demeaning well I don't know, I would push back a little on sorry, go ahead, that is with Carmi, when you see him with the other co-workers.

Speaker 2: 2:23:46

There isn't that. There is not a resentment or hostility. In the first episode, Tina says how was your recital about his daughter? Like they know about each other, they are friends. He gets along with Ibrahim and Marcus and everybody else.

Speaker 4: 2:24:08

Fax says that he's an asshole but like everybody in the restaurant seems to like him and hate him and in. But in calling him an asshole, it's not, he's an asshole, I hope he dies. He then immediately says he's like sad on the entire. I forget the exact line, but like I think it's I, I don't I Coach that there was probably the same acerbic, I guess, quality.

Speaker 4: 2:24:24

Yes, but I think the meaning of the acerbic quality shifts right. So I think Tina, saying I'm thankful for you motherfuckers in the mouth of Higgins is the Christmas episode speech. Yes, but that's how she says it.

Speaker 2: 2:24:40

Yes, because Chicagoans are blunt assholes.

Speaker 4: 2:24:41

I don't think she was like I really, I hate you motherfuckers in my heart. She was saying I love you motherfuckers and that's a sentence I'm not gonna say out loud to you, fucking motherfuckers.

Speaker 3: 2:24:54

I, I, I, I, I, I, I think richie is a asshole. I think Richie is an asshole and I think that that's how he functions. I think they've had money problems at the beef for a long time. I think Mikey's descent into substance abuse and depression most likely clouded the environment in some way or another. I think there's been consternation and frustration, and I don't think a grownup has run the place, maybe forever. So I think, with all of those elements at play, yes, the current thing is that there's a specter of despair over everything because Mikey killed himself, and there's that loss and that sadness and no one's come to terms with it yet, and also the rapid pace of change based on the fact that there's an outsider in the temple. All of those things are contributing to it. For me, it's hard for me to imagine a place where Richie has any authority that isn't mismanaged or has a, has a quality of mockery or listen. The next line that comes out of Richie's mouth is so fucking horrible but to an outsider it's horrible.

Speaker 2: 2:26:13

It's not an outsider. Sydney is not part this I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm.

Speaker 3: 2:26:17

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. He's got that gear.

Speaker 2: 2:26:19

He okay, but he has this gear right now and I am cheating a little bit because we know things that happen in later episodes. But you are imagining that Richie has been this kind of asshole, this sort of damage and, uh, sat on the inside for his entire life. I think things changed for him when Mikey died. I think, as they were getting worse, things were changing for him. Yeah, I'm, things changed for him when Mikey died. I think, as they were getting worse, things were changing for him.

Speaker 2: 2:26:43

Yeah, I'm sure, but that means that this guy was not in the kitchen 15 years ago, when Tina and Ibrahim and a different group of dishwashers and a different Marcus were forming a family. I don't think he's always been like this.

Speaker 3: 2:26:58

I think this version of this guy.

Speaker 3: 2:27:00

that's okay Listen as we go it's going to become very clear. It's going to become very clear as we continue. But the key thing right here is Sidney tries to give him a pep talk. She's like you know, it could be really good. That's brightness of the future. That's like in the middle of. I know we're in a pit of despair right now, but like this place should be great and the fact that the, that the qualifying element of the place being great is carmy as opposed to richie, is the thing that triggers him and he says what coach, say it right here, because this is so fucking racist and he's such an asshole. It makes me. It makes me, oh, wow.

Speaker 4: 2:27:37

No, I'm trying to remember this because that was not my reaction to the scene. So now I'm all right this scene. So now I'm. You're getting a little aggressive and I think maybe you should just pause and take a breath before you start driving. Man or woman, I'm not discriminating.

Speaker 3: 2:27:52

It's dangerous to get behind the wheel when you're hysterical yeah, it's dangerous to get behind the wheel when you're hysterical here's how I took that.

Speaker 4: 2:28:03

Here's how I took that. He's not joking. No, no, no, no, no, he's not joking. Here's how I experienced it.

Speaker 4: 2:28:11

I definitely reacted to saying to a Black woman that she's being aggressive and to any woman that they're being hysterical. I was like, oh God, oh God. Now the fact that he says I mean man or woman I think he knows he's not supposed to say that to a woman. What I viewed all of this as was deflection. Yes, I viewed all of this as I am feeling things right now. I don't want to be feeling things. You're making me like look at shit that I'm not here to talk about or reason.

Speaker 4: 2:28:41

With notice, he doesn't call her aggressive. She's hella sarcastic with him. Right before this, he was fine with that. It's when she says, hey, you know we can make life better that he's like see, now you starting shit with me, and I think that's. I think that's relevant. I'm not taking away that you don't want to be saying that to a black woman and you don't want to be saying this to women in general. What I am saying is I think he is doing it to get out of the conversation he doesn't want to be in, which is we can make this better. This is not okay.

Speaker 3: 2:29:18

That's okay then, then that's appropriate.

Speaker 4: 2:29:20

No, it doesn't make it appropriate, but it doesn't make, but I think it has-.

Speaker 3: 2:29:23

There's an interesting element where you guys are rushing to defend Richie. It's just interesting to me where it's like well, if this were coming out of somebody else's mouth, you'd be like I am done. I am fucking done. Did you just say hysterical? This is as horrible as any Senate hearing you've ever heard, or any confirmation hearing, where women are not able to control their emotions and meanwhile men are crying at the dais and you go like what no? No, no you just go like what the fuck? No, no, no, no no.

Speaker 3: 2:29:58

It's so there's like a black comedy element to what he says. Why does it got to be black?

Speaker 4: 2:30:02

I'm kidding no, no, no, it's so. There's like a black comedy element to what he says.

Speaker 3: 2:30:04

Why does it got to be black. I'm kidding, but yeah, no right.

Speaker 4: 2:30:05

Exactly You're going to say that.

Speaker 3: 2:30:06

But there's like a dark comedic tone where you're like, oh, it's so preposterous and he's not saying it with a smirk on his face that you're like there's no attack, there's no aggressiveness.

Speaker 4: 2:30:25

But that's not his. I mean, when he says you're being a little bit aggressive, I do think that's his experience of it. I don't think he's bullshitting. I think he feels like shut up and drive. I don't want to deal with the fact that this could be great or that it's not great or that, whatever. Like I don't want to deal with the fact that this could be great or that it's not great or that, whatever. Like I don't know one kind of cock from the fucking other. Like I don't want to do this. Like she's actually dealing with the thing so that makes her aggressive. Wait, stop.

Speaker 2: 2:30:52

Hold on Because you think that we agree with him by saying that we understand what he's saying.

Speaker 4: 2:30:57

That's not I'm not endorsing what you're saying. Right saying, that's not. I'm not endorsing what you're saying right, right, this is.

Speaker 2: 2:31:02

There's a very there are. There is a huge difference between a tv show like ted lasso, showing us the character of ted lasso, and that is supposed to be somebody that we say they are doing things correctly. It as far as a moral person he is, one we should be emulating. Ted Lasso. The show says this is an endorsement of Ted Lasso the bear and, by extension, I think me and Coach Bishop. Saying we understand who Richie is as a character and why he's doing the things that he is isn't an endorsement of his behavior. It's an understanding why the people around him would love him, even when he acts this way.

Speaker 3: 2:31:41

Okay great, people around him would love him even when he acts this way. Okay, great. I take an alternative perspective, which is this would be pretty, this would be pretty damning for me, uh, to be in his presence and try to like, give him the credit of like. Oh yeah, I see why everybody loves him. This specific speech I thought was like real, which is interesting because right after it, he does the thing where I makes me like him the most that I've ever liked him, which is which is really, really clever writing.

Speaker 4: 2:32:04

Go ahead, coach just to jump in because I think the call is an interesting piece for us to address as well. I guess for me the difference between this and the congressional hearing. You're using that as like a model. I feel like there are choices being made there that are actually not under duress, that are creating duress for other human beings. I see a guy here whose fucking lawyer wants their money and whose friend fucking killed himself I just found out five minutes ago and who's got the fucking stupid, fucking ron fucking died. Now what are you fucking doing to me, ron? Like it, just like the weight, in the same way that with with karm, I'm not like hey asshole, don't you know what? He's going through, then to we all get it so.

Speaker 4: 2:32:55

So I'm just saying that's what he's experiencing. Yes, when he says back up like I am barely holding it together as it is. I don't need you coming over here talking to me about how fucking gentrified and great the restaurant could be the whole.

Speaker 3: 2:33:13

He's been the one doing all the complaining and sydney was did not have the okay to say hey, shut the fuck up, I'm not into. You're being very aggressive right now talking about my boss that way I'm. There's no, it's only one, one direction. So, yes, we all understand that he's under a tremendous amount of suffering and duress and and change and misery, and he's he's got all the stages of grief operating all at once, not to mention everything we're going to find out in this next phone call. But it's, it's, it's only the, the, the, the locus of his attention or his. What he can cope with is goes only as far as what he gives a shit about. So the fact that sydney has an alternative perspective and and elucidates it with with calmness and a brightness and some hope, uh, yes, maybe that's a bridge too far for him, but that doesn't excuse him for being like you're being aggressive and you're being hysterical no, I wasn't like whoa, whoa.

Speaker 4: 2:34:08

No, no, I didn't intend to be excusing, I guess sorry let's move on.

Speaker 3: 2:34:12

let's just move on to. I hear everything you're saying let's move on to the call and let's and and we can, we can I'm sure this this will help paint more of a picture Boss, walk us through. He says why the fuck does she keep calling me? And then he answers his phone and Sid's just sitting there.

Speaker 2: 2:34:27

She says why do you keep calling me? And she says fuck me, says what's going on with her. Is she crying again? Yeah, what did you say? Well, she's, I'd be crying too. She's at this different school with all those kids. Are a bunch of fuck faces. Hold on.

Speaker 3: 2:34:50

Boss, hold on. Hold on one sec. I'm not going to put you on the spot here, because this is one of those things. Let's just listen to a tiny bit of the actual sound from Richie. He's on the phone, clearly talking to his ex-wife or in the process of something, and they're talking about the daughter. Hold on and let's hear his actual lines. Hold on. Can I just talk to her please?

Speaker 4: 2:35:19

Hey sweetie, how you doing, you not doing so good, what's? Wrong. Oh, you're scared. What are you scared about? Yeah, I get it, but you know what?

Speaker 1: 2:35:43

You're going to do great, I promise, and if you, don't, I'm going to give you $500.

Speaker 2: 2:35:51

But you're going to do great.

Speaker 1: 2:35:55

And I'm going to see you on Friday, right how could you of? Course I still love you. I love you so, so much. I love you more and more every day. If that's possible, I just no, I don't need to talk to mommy, but uh, call me after, let me know how it went.

Speaker 4: 2:36:25

Okay, I'm so proud of you, kiddo.

Speaker 1: 2:36:34

I love you. Sorry, my daughter's going through a phase. Yeah, yeah, how old is she?

Speaker 4: 2:36:44

She's five Like Carmy.

Speaker 3: 2:36:51

Fucking great. How fast does it go? I was like, wow, wow, that's my favorite. I think I was hooked on this show right away. But when we got to that scene I was like, oh my God, like what a? What a curveball. I thought the aggressive and the hysterical was so offensive. It made me so mad, viscerally angry, and then it was absolutely stolen from me. All of my righteous indignation got completely stolen from me. Yeah, as I, as I saw a entirely different side of this character, you know, totally humanized. He has to listen.

Speaker 3: 2:37:36

For those of us who have been through divorce and I've mentioned on the on the show before it's the craziest thing to to wake up in a house where you used to hear morning noises and things and then your kids are gone. It's a it's. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. It's terrible and the helplessness is palpable. You, you, when your kids start to go through someone and you're their person and you're not there, actively there, they have to call you, they have to get permission from someone who's not all that excited to talk to you, and then you know what I mean. There's this weird disconnect. It's so awful, it's an awful feeling and I really related to this one moment where he was in the midst of everything, in the midst of just realizing he left his fucking cigarettes on the stove. You know, now, the brightness of the future that really irritated him from from from, uh, sydney. He's got to really shift gears and make it about somebody else.

Speaker 3: 2:38:26

And I thought he was so generous with his tone change and his uh like. In his world it's like oh, somebody, I'm scared. Uh, well, fucking, suck it up and rub some dirt on it. You know you could see that response, but suck it up and rub some dirt on it. You know you could see that response. But it was like oh no, he actually put the fm sign.

Speaker 3: 2:38:50

He's like, okay, what he's like? What are you scared about? Like, so it's like, oh my god, like the, the, the, I don't know, I thought it was the acting is so fucking amazing in this scene. And then, coach, I'll let you, I'll let you go, but um, I'm gonna let you finish, coach, but um, but right after that, the same way, I felt like he was stolen from me immediately when he says oh, she's five, like carmy, all of my, all of the. It's like the best treacly cutter in the world where all of a sudden. Now I'm laughing out like they forced me to laugh, because he's back to being the Richie we know, and now his focus is back on what a prick Carmi is. Carmi's not even in the room, he's not even in the car. So I thought it was just a fascinating scenario.

Speaker 4: 2:39:31

So a number of things. So I guess a couple of things. I entered the car at this moment, I think at a different place, with richie than you did, and I think part of it is richie reminds me of of several people I've known in my life like very much so, not italian blah blah, but like. I'm thinking of one of my cousins in particular, who has a backstory the likes of which, like that's right, a novel like jesus christ, you have been through some shit and she is so goddamn acerbic and for some reason, it seems like with almost every human being on earth except me, like to the point where I've noted it and been like, and then if I get mad at her for anything, like she gets really upset, like I have to be super careful. Like she is fragile, but I know how fragile she is, right. So when she's being an asshole to people which she can be I'm the one who's like, oh, come on, take it easy, why don't you come have a drink with me? Anyway, we'll hang out right like, but I know like, I know that I know the backstory. So when she acts like that, I'm not like fuck's the matter with you. I'm like, oh, I know exactly what the fuck's the matter with you. You still can't act like that, but okay. So I think that's how I was experiencing richie as like okay, yeah, yeah, you're broken, I get it, I get it. Man, you're just. You know, you're trying to make it from one day to the next.

Speaker 4: 2:41:00

What I loved in in this scene and I'll you know, in my soliloquy, when coming out of the call because the call is fantastic too, and I thought he was saying the child reflects him I thought fucking experience he is having right now where he's telling her you're gonna be great, what did he just hear? That got him super upset. He needs his goddamn call as much as his child does. But then when he gets off the phone, he realizes, fuck, I was just vulnerable in front of somebody, and to me that's what light carmy was. Yes, it's a treacly cutter technically in terms of how you write a scene, but I think it was also him reclaiming Don't you go getting any funny fancy ideas that I'm fucking vulnerable. Either you and I found that. As for a character, I found that intriguing. Like I was like OK, ok, this guy has levels. So, yeah, ok, love it, coach, boss, okay.

Speaker 3: 2:42:01

Love it. Coach. Boss, you have anything before we move?

Speaker 2: 2:42:06

on. So, yes, I love this scene. I think it's great. I think there's obviously some difference in how coach Castleton is viewing Richie and I think maybe how coach Bishop and I are. Go fucking figure.

Speaker 2: 2:42:22

One of the things that I never like about characterization is where people decide that one character trait invalidates another one. So they do really bad jobs on a lot of tv shows especially. You know, I don't want to point fingers, but but there's some late 90s, early 2000s shows where it's like, oh, this woman is tough and can kick ass and do all this other shit. And then you find out, oh my God, she can be vulnerable too and all of a sudden she's not badass anymore. Like the alias actually did it surprisingly well where Sidney Bristow was both kick ass and and a little bit vulnerable. So I like that these things are all bumped up right against each other, that it's richie being an asshole to sydney and then being extremely sweet to his daughter and then taking a dig at carme.

Speaker 2: 2:43:12

Um, I think a lot of what we are seeing is richie feeling betrayed by carme and being angry at him and being a little bit angry at Mikey, and that that makes for the kind of person I'm not saying that I would love Richie if I knew him in real life.

Speaker 2: 2:43:30

I'm saying that in real life I love the absolute shit out of Gretchen Cutler, who is a terrible human being on You're the Worst. And if people ask me like how could you be friends with her if I knew her in real life, I'd be like I don't know what to tell you. Like she's funny and fun and I think she kicks ass. So like I know she's a horrible person but I love her and I don't know what to do about that. And I think that the show gives us that distance. He's not a great person, but the people around him loving him makes a lot of sense to me. So I think that for me it felt less personal of Richie being an asshole and more like what does this show say about the kind of person who Richie is and the kind of person who loves him?

Speaker 3: 2:44:08

The kind of people who love him. I get it. I get it. I can only operate with the information the show is giving me, and once he does go the hysterical and aggressive route, my hackles go up more than usual.

Speaker 4: 2:44:25

No, no, I hear you on that. I guess I was so into the oh boy, this is him just like cornered animal kind of a deal that I guess I kind of was like yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right, you're on point.

Speaker 3: 2:44:39

For some people that language would be disqualifying, right I think right. No for sure, but again you know, uh, so like carme, uh, oh, he says food and wine's best new dickhead sorry, I meant to do that uh, food and wine's best new dickhead is what he calls carme um nominal and yeah because she rolls her eyes but eyes.

Speaker 4: 2:45:03

But they've had a moment here that nobody can take away, including either of them. Neither of them got in this car going. You know what's going to be great about this trip to the hardware store? We're going to have a chance to get to know each other a little better and share some of our thoughts on what's been going on. No, neither one of them wanted to be in this car, but we see, like they can never undo this now if they never spoke again. Something happened in this car and I love that. Um, I don't know if you want me to pick up where that went I just you're right, you're absolutely right.

Speaker 3: 2:45:39

There is this moment. He was vulnerable in front of her. He tries to give an excuse Sorry, my daughter, and she, no, no, no, she, she's gracious, you know. Even though he was just a fuckhead, she's gracious about it. And then food and wine best new, whatever, dickhead, whatever. This is the first time we shoot through the front windshield and we get a two-shot of them. We've been going like overs where someone's in the foreground, someone's in the background, or singles, but this one is like a standard two-shot from outside the front of the car. And as Sid is buckling up to leave, he says fuck and he shakes his head. And then what does he say here, coach, I fucked up with those cigarettes and I loved this moment and I loved her.

Speaker 4: 2:46:32

Look up at him, he sighs and you realize he knows he knows right. I guess that's what I get from him throughout, like for the moment I met him, I was like this poor guy is being put through it, life is whooping his ass and he is just doing his best to make it to tomorrow. That's been my sense of him from jump. But, um, I love that. Him saying that and saying in a way, was him going all right? Obviously you already know I'm a human. Now I'll go ahead and just sort of like express what's going on in me, at least a little bit. I love that.

Speaker 4: 2:47:10

She then says I'm sorry, uh, about michael, because to me it also speaks to like I get. It doesn't mean you haven't been a, doesn't mean you didn't talk over me when the inspector was there, doesn't mean the wrong, it just means I get it and I really like that about the exchange. And then he says and I got the wrong cock, I think, to which she says and this is when I was like oh yeah, come on, you did, which I laughed because I thought she was going to go back in the store and instead. Come on, you did, which I laughed because I thought she was going to go back in the store and instead, but she pulls out I didn't, and it's just fantastic. She's like I wasn't going to argue with you.

Speaker 4: 2:47:50

It was obviously the wrong one. I know you didn't want to get the fucking wrong one, so I just went ahead and did it and and he says Sid making moves and laughs and she says fuck off, richie. And that's what I mean about the place in general. To me that exchange could have happened in that kitchen at any point with other people, and now she and Richie have that too. That fuck off was more loving than any other line she said to him the entire time.

Speaker 3: 2:48:24

Absolutely right. Yes, this was a very big bonding event for the two of these guys and it's you know like we talk about coming into the boat. When you're in a negotiation. If you're standing in a rowboat with somebody else and you lean away from the center, they have to lean away from the center as well, just to balance the boat. So the more you come into the boat, the more they have to keep the boat balanced, make sure it doesn't capsize. And when he shows his vulnerability much like Dr Sharon in Ted Lasso, once she's honest about her shortcomings that's what opens up ted to his therapy.

Speaker 3: 2:49:00

Um, it's all about coming into the boat and, uh, I've loved listen. I want, I would love people listening to to make note of how angry I am at richie at this point in the story, because you might hear me sing some different songs as we, as we as we continue, uh, throughout the course of the bear. But I thought it was a beautiful moment. And when he says, like I really fucked up with those cigarettes, yeah, I loved that, I thought that was fantastic. Okay, so we cut now to Carmi, and he is watching. He's flipping through Sid's proposal. We get a nice little. He stops at one page it's like, shows all the labor costs broken down in Excel spreadsheet format. Which colorized? It was a color print. When you're going to spring for a color print app, man, you're not fucking around, and so, boss, walk us through this moment here with Carm and what happened.

Speaker 2: 2:50:05

He's looking through the binder and then he sort of takes a look around. He's sitting in the office again, probably after everybody else has clocked out, and it occurs to him that he needs to call somebody. So he picks up his phone and on the other end we see it buzzing and another character, a new one, a man, picks it up and says Car. And he says hey, pete. And Pete immediately says Is everything okay? These are not people who call each other on a regular basis. Carmy says yeah, sugar wasn't picking up her phone. And he, immediately pete is like oh, okay, great, let me, let me get her on the phone and get you off. I'm just gonna go get nat.

Speaker 2: 2:50:50

Uh, carmy in the meantime is like look, I just wanted to kind of mention. He says I'm sorry, I just um, she said I wanted to. He's going that that like, obviously pete does not want to be having this conversation, so I just wanted to talk to you about something. I just um, uh, I wanted to apologize for the last time. And pete says oh, you know what? I went to urgent care. Who's? Uh, they gave me some stuff to put on it, and um, and carmy says no, I shouldn't have. And Pete says I'm just going to go, let me just go grab Nat, I'm just going to go walk the phone to her, hold on, just give me no problem. No problem, most awkward conversation for a while.

Speaker 4: 2:51:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's bad, but they do the thing that I've shared with you both, that I always love this joke where you never actually show or say the thing, yes, yes, and I just, I never tired of that exactly like you start going through your mind like what the fuck went on.

Speaker 3: 2:51:59

What the hell did he do? Yeah, what did?

Speaker 4: 2:52:01

he do, and I think it's far more interesting. They said oh, I didn't mean to punch in face like, and it's like, okay, well, that's what happened. So, anyway, I, I, I'm, I'm a sucker for that no, I think it's great.

Speaker 2: 2:52:12

I I love that they never actually addressed exactly what it is, nor do they actually explain exactly who he is. Until you hear that, like, obviously this is my husband. We're putting that together, but I do like refusing to spoon feed anything to us. Absolutely Even the fact that on the phone it says Carmi by the way.

Speaker 3: 2:52:35

Yes.

Speaker 4: 2:52:37

Wait, say that again, coach. Even the fact that his phone says Carmi, because that means at some point we were affectionate enough in our relationship that I put you in there as Carmi, and now you are Carm, who I do not want to talk to at all.

Speaker 3: 2:52:59

It's an interesting introduction because it's the first time we meet Pete, who is Sugar's husband, and he seems like a very nice. He was like very nice. I thought when I first, oh, no, don't worry about it, no, let me, let me get, let me get. You didn't want to talk about it. And I was like, oh, he's a really, really nice guy. And then shortly thereafter they subvert that immediately, Not that he's not nice, but uh, we'll get to the with the line specifically. But I was like, oh god, sugar, uh. So, uh, sugar says what's going on. He says it's car me. Um, she's. Why is he calling you? I don't know she's, she's in the, in the kitchen. You're calling pete. Uh, she says as she gets on the phone and he says you weren't answering your phone. She's like I'm making dinner. Who answers their phone when they're making you know, it's like I'm making dinner. Fuck off and, boss, pick it up from here with Carmi and Sugar.

Speaker 2: 2:53:53

He says did you hear I apologized? And she says so, which it's funny to me, like not actually actually funny. Of course you think immediately that pete is nice. I thought his refusal to discuss it definitely his right, but that didn't make it feel nice to me, it just made it feel like he doesn't, he doesn't want to talk about it, so he's not going to, he will avoid it. Obviously he was the wrong party, so he is allowed to. But I didn't think of that as him being like oh no, no, you're off the hook, it's no problem, forgive and forget. It's just like I'm not going to talk about this shit with you, um, but anyway. So then uh, carmy says uh, cicero was here. And she said yeah, I heard, which means that she also knowsicero and knows him well enough to know when he is visiting her brother.

Speaker 3: 2:54:47

And it's done over the top of something that made me so fucking hungry when I saw it there is a what is this that we're looking at this, this insert here but it's gotta be like a chicken cacciatore maybe, or uh yeah, I thought it might be like maybe yeah.

Speaker 2: 2:55:04

I thought it might be like a lemon. Yeah, lemons and capers, capers and lemons. I always think, yeah, piccata or cacciatore. I think cacciatore, right, am I thinking of the right one?

Speaker 4: 2:55:13

Piccata definitely has those. I don't know, cacciatore myself.

Speaker 3: 2:55:16

Let me look that up. Yeah, piccata definitely has those. I don't know. I don't know Catch a toy, but I know Picada. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 2:55:22

Um, uh, sugar says I also heard there's a C in the window, nice, which, like uh, natalie slash sugar, who is the same person for those following along, uh, doesn't miss much. Apparently, she knows when sister has been there, she, she knows that there's a c in the window. Uh, listen, sugar. He says I woke up in the middle of the night cooking a bunch of wrap, frozen shit, almost set my apartment on fire. And she reacts like oh fuck, like yeah, she's, does it happen a lot? And he says sometimes, you know, did you look at the thing? And he says no, uh, no, I didn't look at the thing. Well, I was like what, what thing are they talking about? And then she says what boss?

Speaker 2: 2:56:08

uh, pete and I have been going lately ah and it's actually been really nice yeah, of course pete would go shut the fuck up and then okay, then okay, me, me and Pete have been going.

Speaker 3: 2:56:24

it's actually been really nice. Karmic says, of course Pete would go, the guy he just apologized to. And then what does Pete yell from the other room?

Speaker 4: 2:56:32

Coach you want me to shut the fuck up, which I snorted laughing and I don't often snort. That was so goddamn funny to me, one that he like how he would receive his I assumed wife telling him to shut the fuck up was just sort of like. It was even like beyond yes, dear to me in the ass game, like, really like, is it just like a curiosity? Oh, I'm sorry, would you like for me to shut the fuck? So I thought that told me a lot about Pete, especially in contrast to this family where you get the sense that somebody getting punched in the face is not that distinguishing of a of an event. So yeah, so, but yeah, so anyway.

Speaker 3: 2:57:20

Yes, that's right. I thought you said a lot about Pete. You want me to shut the fuck up? And then this is the giveaway, because now the show will tell us how to feel about that. And what does Sugar say here, boss?

Speaker 2: 2:57:35

No, not you, sweetie. You didn't say anything.

Speaker 3: 2:57:40

Oh, copy that. Pete says I'm like, oh my god. And then I'm like, oh, she's from this violent family. Is it possible she overcorrected in her choice of spouse? I'm like, oh my god. And then Carmi asks what are you making? And what does she say?

Speaker 2: 2:57:57

Says mom's chicken which is piccata Cacciatore is the one with tomatoes and olives. I was confusing them.

Speaker 4: 2:58:03

So quickly I'll toss in and it may just be my mistake. So that's that when we were first watching it, my eye told me salmon this time through. I'm like, eh no, that's not salmon, that's just chicken. So I had a whole thing going in my head of why did she lie and say mom's chicken? Was she trying to get him roped into? Whatever she was trying to get him to do? So anyway, I'm just tossing that in, that I had that moment because maybe it's telling me something else about how I was experiencing the story. But she definitely wants him to check the thing.

Speaker 3: 2:58:38

Yeah, she wants him to check the thing. He says really I'm fine, you know, really just have trouble breathing. Sometimes he writes down lemon chicken in his like a little thing by his lemon chicken piccata. He writes down his notebook at his desk. I know tons of people that cry out of nowhere and she says I just, oh, go ahead, boss. What does she say?

Speaker 2: 2:59:02

I know tons of people that cry out of nowhere. And she's like just, oh good, good boss, what does she say? I know tons of people that cry out of nowhere. Okay, I just send it to you again, because she really wants him to look at it. So he says I don't want to bother you. She says you're not bothering me. That isn't like unscary. Which is the fact that as soon as he said, uh, I almost set my apartment on fire and she's like does that happen? Often means that she knows she is not going to be surprised by it. I mean, even if she is, she's going to know to have a muted impression. So now she's saying, getting into the other levels of this, when did the breathing problem start? How long has this been going on? This is like almost more of an intake than anything else yeah, it has that vibe to it, right and she knows how to talk to him and he and we get the sense she's the only one he's reaching out to.

Speaker 3: 2:59:47

He says I think maybe sometime in new york. Uh, I was throwing up uh every day before work she says oh well, yeah, that sounds chill great he says I kind of dug it, you dug throwing up no, no, no, it was awful. Uh, chef was a piece of shit. Why did?

Speaker 2: 3:00:08

you stay there then I don't know um.

Speaker 3: 3:00:15

You know people loved the food. It felt good.

Speaker 2: 3:00:29

Chefs always say a big part of the job is taking care of other people, right? Yeah, I guess, I guess. Okay, well, you can't really do that when you're not taking care of yourself, then it's just. I like, when you tell me things, I'm asking you to look at the thing.

Speaker 4: 3:00:45

It's okay for you to ask for help. I think that's a humongous line in this episode and I suspect in the show, because we've seen a ton of that.

Speaker 2: 3:00:53

Yes, absolutely 100% on that. What I think is really interesting and what I think it says about the larger show is he says I was throwing up every day before work and she's like, oh, awesome. And he's like, no, actually I kind of dug it and I like so much that the show says experiences or jobs or passions or other things that you might have that don't feel nice can still be extremely valuable and something that you want to invest it Like I. I did sort of start leaning away from Ted Lasso when it got to be to the point where it was, uh, if everybody does everything nice, then everything will be great and nice.

Speaker 2: 3:01:38

I think that there are experiences that people can have that feel painful or hard or that you struggle with or that are annoying and piss the shit out of you, but then when you figure out the spreadsheet you're like, oh, fucking worth it. I'm really glad that I did that. So I like that they're acknowledging that part of the passion of being a chef for him is that it kicks his ass, but like he enjoys that part and the show was validating that.

Speaker 4: 3:02:06

In a yes and way. One of the things I discovered about my own life is that a brand of toughness I had to develop led to me kind of taking on I can survive anything, I will not quit. Sounds familiar to Lassall right. So I think yes to everything you just said and yes to probably he learned a ton, and yes to he, I'm sure, built up a level of ability to withstand all of that and still do great work, and that may not be going forward in his life. The healthiest element of his personality and I guess where I definitely line up with you on that is I think one of the things you pointed out to me about Ted Lasso is things are either good or bad or nice or not nice, and you often do a good job of showing how it's both. It's all it's. I like that and and I think that's true here from what I'm seeing so far of this, of this character- okay, thanks.

Speaker 3: 3:03:20

Although that's a very great point about how you can over push it or you could push yourself too far, being gentle with yourself is as important as anything else, as nat says yeah, um, I, I I thought coach would have a different reaction to it's okay to ask for help because, uh, as recovering god, complex people, coach and I have admitted we're like, oh, no, I'm the one that can handle this or I can whatever.

Speaker 3: 3:03:47

Yes, as as a, as a negative, uh mirror to that. That's that, that quality you develop where you think you can get through anything. Uh, there, there, there is, has sometimes in your past, in my past, been a quality of like I'm the only one that can do this or you know that kind of thing. And and the worst thing you can say to someone who is in the middle of that is it's okay to ask for help. That is the fastest way for me to not ask for help in the world is for you to frame it in a way that I need help and I have to then ask for it. I'm like, oh, oh, my God, like I just remember, like that version of myself, how it would have, how that would have landed.

Speaker 4: 3:04:27

Yeah no no.

Speaker 3: 3:04:29

It's. You know what I mean. There's a, there's a, it's honest, it's valid, it's totally. Now I'm like, yeah, throw that up, you know, but it takes if you're not ready to, and you're not ready to come to terms with the fact that you're a person that needs help. Um, just the, the, the quality of asking for help, uh seems like is borderline, insulting. Oh, he's like, I understand, I really do, and I saw, I thought I saw his wall go up a little.

Speaker 4: 3:04:56

Um, I don't think he understands no, I think, yeah, I think he understands intellectually that if one is having trouble, one can ask for help, which is different than I am in trouble, I need to ask for help, and I, and that I think when I said how, after the 300 grand, he said he's gonna pay back the 300 grand. That was a bit of it where I'm like, oh no, I, I know, I know this dance. No matter what gets said to him, he's like all right, I got it, all right, I'll take care of that too.

Speaker 3: 3:05:23

It's like, no, you will yeah, what are you talking about? What?

Speaker 4: 3:05:27

are you?

Speaker 3: 3:05:28

money. I'll get your money, jimmy, yeah how?

Speaker 4: 3:05:31

like you know but I never asked myself how I just knew like I, you know, I can clear tall buildings in a single bound. So you know I'll make it happen.

Speaker 3: 3:05:42

Then we thank you, coach. Then we cut to a shot of the sea in the window and someone has penciled in car me like an ARM. Why, after the sea, which is which is so obnoxious, cause you would have had to peel it back to write like it's not, like they wrote it on the window, the way it's facing like wow, they really like they had to, like do a little work, uh, to get that to happen. Um, and we, we, we stay on that for a second. Uh, we got a I don't think any.

Speaker 2: 3:06:14

Whoever wrote that intended it to be like this, but they were filling out carmy. But they also did write sea army, which would be more of a. I don't think that they're thinking of it as this is, you know, unifying us that together we are the sea army, but I think it would be a pun later on possibly.

Speaker 3: 3:06:39

It's a it's total restaurant.

Speaker 2: 3:06:41

Yes, exactly.

Speaker 3: 3:06:45

Okay, so we get a little. It's a little montage with music over, um, and we see, uh, richie nows is using the right cock, um, and uh, you know, he knows, looks like he kind of knows what he's doing. He's trying to get around the edge. Oh, it's something that pisses me off. If you're somebody that does, you know these types of repairs in your house or your whatever, sometimes you're like God damn it. It's always the stupidest things. He's trying to get around to the right side of it and there's a stupid locker in the way and you know he's sort ofing gun and as he goes to pick it up, what happens here?

Speaker 4: 3:07:21

Coach. As he bends down to get his pencil, he sees something behind the lockers and it's an envelope. We're zooming in and we see Mikey and it's someone's handwriting. And then he pulls out an envelope and we push into the envelope to car me from mikey. So obviously we got a note from somebody who's not doing much talking these days. Whatever's in this envelope, we all want to know what the fuck is in this envelope, including including rich, who definitely spends a moment looking at the envelope and, it seems, making a decision as to what he is going to do next.

Speaker 3: 3:08:10

He also looks over his shoulder. Before he even reaches for it, he makes sure no one is there. I thought, oh, that's so interesting before he even knew. Yeah, two comedy from Mikey. And he just stares at it. There's shot they really hold on the shot of him looking at this marcus pops in, yo, we need you up front. He's like, yeah, yeah, I'll be right there, hides it. Uh, looks over shoulder again make sure nobody sees it. He's like, fuck, he's just sort of really processing this. Gets up still looking at it. Yet another shot it's got to be 30 seconds of screen time with him exploring this, walks into Kami's office, does the right thing and drops it on Kami's desk and you're like, wow, jesus Christ, I was like, didn't look at it, I was super impressed.

Speaker 3: 3:09:02

And Coach will tell you my reaction in a moment. I was like wow.

Speaker 4: 3:09:04

Because I saw you notice me react, but I was like good for you, Richie.

Speaker 3: 3:09:10

I was so pleased. I was like how is that? What gear do you have where you would make that choice? I couldn't believe it and go ahead, boss.

Speaker 2: 3:09:24

You want to say um and go ahead, boss. You say something um the gear that that is is not wanting to acknowledge like interesting. There are, and there are a lot of things about this that he's not going to want to acknowledge. Number one is that this is mikey suicide note, and there's something about reading a suicide note that would make things final in a way that other things would not be.

Speaker 2: 3:09:40

The second one is that he left his note addressed to Carmen and I know that Richie's an asshole, I know that Richie's butting heads with Carmi for no reason. He's coming up with shit. But he said Mikey was my best friend, I worked with him at this restaurant, I took over for it when he was, when things were getting dark for him, and that motherfucker left it to Carmen Like he is pissed.

Speaker 4: 3:10:06

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 3:10:07

And this is not to excuse any of his behavior. He's being a dick, he's being a complete asshole, but it's because he lost his best friend and he's fucking pissed at his best friend and he's fucking pissed at his best friend's little brother, cause that shitty fucking asshole who ran away got all of mikey's love and so like. Not wanting to read this note is much more about richie protecting himself than wanting to respect carmen's privacy that that's incorrect.

Speaker 4: 3:10:35

That's really insightful thank you for that because I wouldn't have thought about that piece. I definitely thought about the jealousy piece, though I was like I thought of him and I was like I would be like are you fucking kidding, are you?

Speaker 2: 3:10:50

fucking kidding me. That son of a bitch ran away. You're fucking leaving your family. I'm in god damn debt making sure your mother's.

Speaker 4: 3:10:57

Okay, are you fucking kidding me? So yeah, it was an interesting.

Speaker 3: 3:11:01

Yeah, it's a very interesting moment it's a terrible gotta be a terrible feeling to be passed over in that way by your best friend in the world. Uh, makes you doubt a lot of things. I would think, um, this, that's, that's some heavy duty stuff. But richie takes the high road, drops it on Karmie's desk while music plays over the top, and we see him leave frame and we just stay on the desk. And then what do we see? Coach.

Speaker 4: 3:11:30

He comes marching back in and grabs the envelope, at which point because I remember this distinctly because of your reaction I threw my arms up over my head.

Speaker 4: 3:11:38

I was like no, no, no no, no, no, no, no, no you. I threw my arms up over my head. I was like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You did it right. The first time I was just like please don't do this. But then and I thought this was fascinating that was for sure cut to him ripping it open, but he puts it back where he found it. Yeah, I just thought this guy is just fucking fascinating. I was just like what, what?

Speaker 4: 3:12:07

so anyway, that was like my whirlwind with Richie there, because I thought I was like I was already the envelope's already open, and then to see him put it back was like really so he's almost like leaving it to fate. You left it there for carmy.

Speaker 2: 3:12:23

Let's see if carmy finds it yep leave me out he's not gonna get in the middle. Yep, uh. Also, every time that I uh knock the show for getting something wrong about chicago, I would like to uh acknowledge when they got right. Uh, the next scene, as the tickets are printing out. It says um one can of pop. The term is pop. It is not soda. Soda is something else. Pop is the sugary, is ace coke or pepsi or sprite. Soda is seltzer water. If you ask for a soda out here, we will give you bubbly, sparkly water almost thank you almost tore down my marriage almost tore down my no I'm are you?

Speaker 4: 3:13:05

no, but we did we had a couple of those like yeah well, I I don't use them to wear tennis, so why the fuck would I call them tennis shoes?

Speaker 3: 3:13:14

moments we had we had several of those yeah they're gym shoes, your gym shoes, and daphne's from the Chicago area. Yes, grew up on the south side of Chicago Very interesting.

Speaker 4: 3:13:28

Anyway, I won't divert us now, but yes, grew up in Chicago.

Speaker 3: 3:13:35

And you met her at Yale right.

Speaker 4: 3:13:37

I did. You got Yale and Tesla in the same episode.

Speaker 3: 3:13:42

Oh, look at that, I see where we're going with this. Does Daphne know which way the you?

Speaker 3: 3:13:47

know what you ask you know it would be dope if I could just knock everything down. Well, that would be dope, sir. That would be as you say quote. That would be as you say quote, unquote dope. All right, so Boss has corrected us about pops, coach has chimed in with tennis shoes and we're back at the Italian beef over montage, food prep montage. We are getting everyone hustling. The beef is getting put into buns, now with more, now now with fresher, now with water in the in the oven. So we hear Sydney. Right, this is, this is interesting, chef, let's fire two chicken peppers. I was like wait, what am I hearing? And what is it reminiscent of? Weirdly at the beef all of a sudden, coach, what does that make you think of?

Speaker 4: 3:14:43

Well, it definitely felt like when we start to turn folks. For me, it reminded me of when the team started to be in on Ted's foolishness. We still had Jamie out, but when it's hands in and it's all like, people are like you know what?

Speaker 3: 3:15:00

he's not so bad. You know what? Right, yeah, there is that Ted's hands in and it's all like people are like. You know what? He's not so bad, you know what.

Speaker 4: 3:15:06

Right, yeah that there is a. There is that Ted Lasso moment to it? Yeah, that's where, that's where I went, but yeah, I'm not sure where you were. No, no, no.

Speaker 3: 3:15:09

That's good. No, that, no, I love it. That's good.

Speaker 2: 3:15:24

That is good. We have to get them. You want to see people get Boss. Was this a bookend of any kind to you, with Sidney calling out things that the chefs were responding to? It felt like adding elements from the New York restaurant but, without any of the Nobody is in Sidney's ear telling her that she's fucking everything up.

Speaker 3: 3:15:40

No, but she's going to sasha to pepper, to more del. Ibrahim says to chicken pepper, to chicken pepper. Yes, chef, right, to more del chef, like, like people she's calling. Thank you, chef. Yes, chef, I'm like, wait, what is happening? I love it. What I I had just bought into the darkness of the future. I was like there's no hope, there's no hope, and we're 300 grand in debt. And uh, you Richie's leaving cigarettes on the stove.

Speaker 4: 3:16:05

It's a disaster. There's literal light added, by the way, which I just processed, because you said I had just bought into the darkness Because I did notice that light when he walked in. But that's yeah, I don't think that's by coincidence.

Speaker 3: 3:16:18

You think that, like the actual, the actual sort of uh color palette is, is is a little bit a little bit lighter.

Speaker 4: 3:16:25

Yeah, okay, yeah, I think so.

Speaker 3: 3:16:28

Thank you, chef. Yes, chef, um, and we get everybody at Kami's running around fit. One sausage pepper, one sausage pepper, one more motor. Yeah, other stuff is going on. Uh, carmy's checking the the sauce burners turning on. They do cooking montages in a way that makes me so god damn famished, it's every time it's gonna be very we're gonna, we're gonna gain 30 pounds, right, exactly, watching this exactly and commenting about the deep dive into a sandwich when I get out of here.

Speaker 3: 3:17:00

I love it A sandwich, I love it. Coach, I am one of those people that was born with sensitive hands and feet, if that makes any sense, so temperature-wise. So sometimes if I go into, like my family, they'll be like, hey, let's go to Cape Cod or in Massachusetts, or let's go up to the beach in Maine and go in the ocean. And I walk in and I feel excruciating pain, like I cannot. Meanwhile I have some friends who just walk in Nope, they don't feel any. They're like oh, it's cold. And I'm like, no, no, I am in actual pain, like I'm in pain. So when Carmi reaches into a hot chicken there's some chicken cooking in one of these skillets and he's just feeling it with his fingers. I'm like, oh my God, like how are you able to? I'm always fascinated by that, but I can't do it when I cook. I can't like use my fingers as a temperature gauge. Thank you, chef Sidney. Okay, let's fire one more sausage pepper. We got Sidney over top. There's behind. We say Abraham is going back, Sidney says gorgeous.

Speaker 3: 3:18:07

Thank you, chef. You want a line change? No, no, no, stay I'll. What's the word he uses there? What is that, Boss? He says I'll turn on it. What is that? No idea, Sure, Don't know. I can check.

Speaker 2: 3:18:29

I can definitely look it up Before we move too far away from it, because it took me a second to come up with it. I still don't know. I can't remember what the article is. If I remember who the author is, I will find it and pull it up. When you said that you had just bought into the stakes, the darkness, the 300,000, the restaurants going to shit, they've got to see all this other stuff. There was somebody that was talking about having suicidal ideation, and luckily they didn't die because they wrote this piece, so obviously that didn't happen. Ideation, and luckily they didn't die because they wrote this piece, so obviously that didn't happen. Um, but contemplating the actual plans of taking their own life and that after they thought like how would I do it, where would I do it, when would I do it, thought oh shit, I have to pick up the dry cleaning, and like just the bizarre juxtaposition of something.

Speaker 3: 3:19:19

so I know what you're referring to.

Speaker 2: 3:19:22

I remember who was that? I can't fucking remember, damn it. What. What was that? Oh my god.

Speaker 3: 3:19:27

And I remember really liking it and that kicked them out of it sort of something was like.

Speaker 2: 3:19:31

Also, just like the way that it was like the, the, the monotony of like your daily, like the idea continuing, even when you're thinking about actively ending it, like just the weird way that it was like the idea of ending your own life was as mundane as picking up your dry cleaning, but also you expect it to pick up your dry cleaning, like. So there is something about the way that the show goes back and forth from like we are having a huge fight. This is a huge deal. This is very, very big to okay. Well, now we need to do prep. Like I really enjoy it, I really like it. I I like that. It doesn't seem that we need to keep doing this stuff, but I don't know. I liked it so much and now I'm gonna look up what uhnate means.

Speaker 4: 3:20:21

Yeah, I don't know what that means, but yeah, I got you in a total podcasting move because you two were on that conversation I jumped in A floating or relief chef, a member of the culinary hierarchy, whose job involves stepping in when needed to complete a variety of culinary duties. So actually we've got a little total restauranting built into that as well. But I would also say he's saying I don't have to be in charge like that. Like I have a way, I want things to run. But you know what, sydney, you are kicking ass out here and I'm not going to jump in the fucking way just to say I'm the head of this and I think that matters in a way. You know what I mean. Like we saw with, to me this isn't quite the same thing. It's actually not the same thing with the quality of it is. Hey, nate, you got any ideas there in your pocket, right? It's like okay, apparently Sydney can run the fucking kitchen right.

Speaker 3: 3:21:23

It's like, okay, apparently sydney can run the fucking kitchen, so let her. I think it's so cool and, not knowing how these operate, it just seems like someone yelling things. I'm like, okay, why is that important? Why is that an important function? I'm sure it is I'm sure, like I can list things too, like why is that? Uh, I wonder why that's like a, I don't know. I'm sure there's a method I don't know enough about cooking. I don't know, it's impressive.

Speaker 3: 3:21:41

I'm owning my own, my own um, uh, lack of knowledge in this area, I don't know, but it seems like it makes a big difference and we saw this when karm was the cdc at at the new york restaurant, that it it mattered and and it was like, uh, it was like marching orders and you adhere to it. I was like for me with ADHD, I'm like, oh God, if I was the one listening for whenever they called my thing like, give me three ice creams.

Speaker 3: 3:22:10

I'd be like, wait, am I an ice cream guy? I'm like, yes, ice cream with strawberry. You said right, was that? Yes, chef, okay, give me two chocolate ice creams. You got two, three chocolates and well, how many strawberry one? Just hit me up again about this. I would be like I don't understand, I don't know how they do this thing seems like fucking hogwarts magic to me I'm like I don't know how this works, but it's amazing.

Speaker 3: 3:22:34

Um, and I guess you call shit out and then when people call it back, that's how it's done, probably matters yeah, yeah, I don't know, yeah, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't last 18 seconds, uh, in that dynamic. Two quick things about that one is when I was a bartender.

Speaker 4: 3:22:49

I actually looking back because, again, I didn't know at the time I think it, especially when we were fast, I was a better bartender when the place was nuts, because then I was just bang, bang, bang bang, bang, bang like I was this and and I think that there's something about that that I'm noticing in the kitchen I've never been in a space like this.

Speaker 4: 3:23:09

I've never had to cook under this kind of pressure. For all I know I would set the whole fucking place on fire, but that particular element of it does feel like oh, I kind of get where. If your only choice is to hear it and move, I think it kind of eliminates some of that other noise.

Speaker 3: 3:23:24

But I, that's where the hyper focus kicks in. Right, exactly, and then you can, exactly, you just go in that way but I love the chef thing here.

Speaker 4: 3:23:34

Yes, they're buying in. But also when I first became a football coach, the first sport I coached like officially out of you know in high school was football, because the fall season and the first time somebody referred to me as coach like another coach, I mean this man had coached me, this man had yelled at me, this man had made me run, this man had right, he goes coach. I want you to blah, blah, blah. I mean you could just hear like coronation music. Did you look behind?

Speaker 4: 3:24:03

you. I was like, yeah, coach, is there a coach in here? Oh, me, me coach. So the beauty of them with the chef, like there's a certain like I got to think that Ibrahim, for example, just picking somebody in the kitchen, may hold themselves a little differently after being called chef 10 times.

Speaker 3: 3:24:27

Yeah when you're like oh, I'm a cook.

Speaker 4: 3:24:29

Oh yeah, you know I make sandwiches yeah no I'm a chef, like I don't know. I don't want to make it too, whatever, but I think there's something kind of cool there in terms of how they're coming together as a team.

Speaker 3: 3:24:44

We're going to get into this as this show goes on. You're talking about themes of validation and belonging. It's like oh you call me a coach. That makes me a coach. I could call my coach my self-coach, it wouldn't have any benefit Right.

Speaker 3: 3:25:00

But when you have sort, you have uh, sort of uh, bequeath that title on to me. It gives it a lot more sort of meaning. Um, there's a little quiet moment between sydney yelling about marta dell or whatever she yells, and uh, and you know there's this, um, you know. So carmy says yeah, I, yeah, no, no, you do it, you keep going whatever. And coach is standing back, the ghost of coach Bishop is watching from an organizational structure standpoint and he's going yeah, respect, like I, like what you're doing, like that choice.

Speaker 3: 3:25:35

And then we punch in a little bit more, punch in a little bit more. And um, and and carmy like, looks, like, stops to look up from what he was doing and makes like, looks right at sid. She's still looking down, she's, she's busy, uh. But he says thank you for taking richie today, like, like a real thank you, not a casual, whatever. He's been pushing her off all day because he's so busy, whatever. But he takes the time to make the eye contact and look at her.

Speaker 3: 3:26:05

She says no sweat, uh, do you want me to? Um, come in tomorrow? And what does? What does he say here? Uh, boss, I, I get, I get missed, I get excited at this moment this is a stupid throwaway moment, but but the vulnerability of like. Do you want me to like? Should I? She is fucking killing it. She's killing it, she's in the middle of killing it. He says thank you for doing this shit job. That I know is a shit job. You're the only person that could have done it, you know, except for Marcus. But like I asked you to do it, you did it. Appreciate it. She says okay, and then she's vulnerable and says do you want me to come in? And what does Karmic say, boss?

Speaker 2: 3:26:45

He says please you're hired, please.

Speaker 3: 3:26:49

Please come in. Yeah, she's like. Yeah, she looks up at him. Yes, you're a past chef.

Speaker 4: 3:26:57

So your past to be like how they say it in comedy like if you're passed at a certain club, that means like you're somebody who can go there and get time like you're. So I took it as that, as like you're in now, like I'm watching you and you know what the fuck you're doing. We're good like so yeah, I don't know if that works the exact same way, but that's the way I heard it.

Speaker 2: 3:27:21

I believe that that is the way that it is supposed to be presented on the show. As it turns out, pass is also like the window of the kitchen, so he's literally saying like this area of the kitchen is yours.

Speaker 3: 3:27:34

This is your kitchen.

Speaker 2: 3:27:35

Yes, like the kitchen is yours is what he means, but I think it functions in the same way. I think that's also why they picked that, instead of saying the window or this galley or whatever else, they said your pass. I think to convey that meaning.

Speaker 3: 3:27:50

Yeah, it's all you, coach, go ahead, we're going to play to you, we're going to play through you. There's the glimmer, the tiniest glimmer, of a smile from sydney and she's like back, right back to business. Can I get hands? Please fire one more sausage pepper? Uh, one more sausage pepper. There is a insert here. Uh, one more sausage pepper, chef. Thank you, chef. She says. And at the bottom of the taped menu that we assume she's looking at, what does it say? Uh, written in all caps, handwritten in all caps. Uh, what does it say here, boss?

Speaker 2: 3:28:32

sense of emergency or of urgency.

Speaker 3: 3:28:36

Yes, yes, In like we are in the middle of an emergency.

Speaker 2: 3:28:42

Sense of urgency.

Speaker 3: 3:28:44

Sense of urgency and we do get that sense when, when this is going on and I thought it was, I don't know, I thought maybe it was a note from Sydney to herself. I didn't know if anyone read it as something that Carmi wrote, but I thought it was she was reminding herself like let's keep a sense of urgency, maybe something that was in the notes of her, yet to be read, document I'd toss in.

Speaker 4: 3:29:24

That also strikes me of, strikes me as an extension of the versus the, the academic or however we want to phrase that. Right like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's all great that you know this and that and the other thing, but, uh, let's fucking go. Yeah, and that that's an element of this conversation too uh, carmy heads outside.

Speaker 3: 3:29:38

Yo, you fix that hole? Yeah, yeah, it's the health department coming back. Richie says yeah, I think so. Uh, fucking cicero, you know, they like somehow cicero pulled up, pulled strings, get the health department going back. But they're calm this time. The two of them are not, there's not, they're just like it's a little check-in uh where they're both out having a cigarette. Um, carmy goes out to have his smoke. We all good in there. Yeah, we're good, you know. Yeah, we're good. I'm just gonna burn one. Have an ad one all day. Carmy says all right, I'll see you in a sec, all right, and wax him with.

Speaker 3: 3:30:07

It was the the mabine, one of my least favorite words. I use it as a punch line. It means like a dish right, it's italian word for dish rag, and anytime I'm making fun of um juliana for being uh, italian in any way for fun, remember one of the legal things she's italian and irish, so I can. It's legal both, both sides of the equation. But I always say, hey, who's seen my mapin? But mapin is a funny word to me, um, and so he whacks him with the the dish rag, richie, and he heads in and now we're alone with carmy outside the original beef chicagoland and he is going to have himself a dart.

Speaker 3: 3:30:45

He's going to have himself a cigarette and he pats his oh yeah, where did I leave those? Pats his thing, and then he thinks where did I leave my cigarettes? They're not on my pocket where I usually leave them. And we get a flashback of him cleaning earlier. He's cleaning earlier he kneels down and something's uncomfortable. He reaches into his back pocket where he keeps the cigarettes and pops them up on top of the goddamn stove yep, where they would eventually be found by the health inspector and which got them a seat so when we were watching those of you who've been with us for a couple of uh episodes now know that I'm I'm the newbie, I'm the I don't, I can't see the future, I don't know.

Speaker 4: 3:31:32

So my mouth fell open. I was like, oh shit, that was staggering and such a specific thing and you 100% get how it could happen. And we know like everything made sense. And you were like, oh no, I, just I, in an episode full of really sharp storytelling choices, I thought this might have taken the cake. I mean, I was just like what a great fucking choice To me. That was resolved right, Like we dealt with that. That's the inspector, blah, blah, blah. They're all in this together and no one's blameless, no one's totally right, no one's totally wrong. They're just like getting through this thing best they can. And sometimes you forget that you're doing one thing and you put the cigarettes down for a second. You know it just. Oh god, it was so fucking it happens.

Speaker 3: 3:32:32

Of course it's human, it's human, and here's the here's the little, here's the little easter egg that's so nice. In the middle of that moment where the lady, the the um announcer, uh, the the inspector, announces that the cigarettes are the thing richie is like flailing, and he yells how do we fucking know they're not your cigarette? That's right, but we all miss it. Yep, I didn't even.

Speaker 4: 3:32:54

I didn't even catch it when we watched it. I caught it today because I knew what was going to happen, that you know yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3: 3:33:01

And then we get this moment. Carmy goes fuck, he has this long, this long realization where he's like, oh my god, like those are my cigarettes. We stay on him and he just stands there and, uh, we pull back. We get that nice shot where we're in tight on him and then we, we drop way back just a little, cut back to a wider shot where he's off center left. We get have you seen me lately by counting crows? And then an insert of Karmie reaching for his phone where Sugar has sent him the website for Al-Anonorg. Here's the info for Al-An group locator that, um, that sugar has sent to him on his phone. And this is the moment where that is somehow valid. Now we pull way back, which, much like ted in the airport, uh, at ted lasso. The beginning of season two uh shows his isolation, meant to show that he's a man alone as he, as the realization that he's the one that fucked up hits him and he starts to question things and to the point where he's considering going to an al-anon meeting. And we hold on that moment with cars going by just for a second as music plays, and then then we smashed black and we are done with the bear, season one, episode two.

Speaker 3: 3:34:26

This was entitled hands, directed and written by Christopher store and we yeah, it is a, it is. This is a. This is a show off episode. I think it's a. It's a. I think it's a tremendous. Is a? This is a show-off episode? I think it's, uh, it's. I think it's a tremendous, tremendous episode of television. For people that weren't hooked, uh it, it really hooked. A lot of you're like, oh my god, what a flex, uh, to have an episode of this with this much in it and the stakes just keep. They amp up the stakes so much. Yeah, uh, it's absolutely unbelievable. Uh, it reminds me.

Speaker 4: 3:35:05

So, yeah, coach, quickly it reminds me of and I'm going to forget who said it, so I'm not going to pretend. I remember right now that that the way that, to create a story, you run your character up a tree and throw rocks at them and I was like, how tall, yes, that's the three-act structure.

Speaker 3: 3:35:23

Act one is you run your character up a tree. Act two, you throw rocks at them. And act three, you get them down and, yes, the tree. How tall is this tree? God damn, this is like you just go. Oh my God, like what the hell. But yeah, it is just an unbelievable episode. Coach, where do people find you if they want to find you?

Speaker 4: 3:35:49

Come through the community, become a Buttercup. However you can support helps. We are moving forward, we are doing the thing and poor coach is bleeding money from all the offices. So no, but really, if you can support, but if your support is who just come through and be a part of the conversation, please do that and it's great, good people. I think you'll be glad you did.

Speaker 3: 3:36:17

Boss, what about you?

Speaker 2: 3:36:18

You can find me on threads at emilychambers.31, also at Blue Sky, which is Emily underscore Chambers, and reading the Antagonist, like you all should be doing, which is antagonistblogcom.

Speaker 3: 3:36:34

Thank you, boss, thank you everybody for joining us for this episode of the Bear. We'll be back next time with the Bear season one, episode three, entitled Brigade. I'm sure one of the things that plagued us with Ted Lasso was, as it got more and more complex, the episodes lasted longer and longer. We only spent roughly four and a half hours on the second episode of the Bear. So, yes, we're going to be, we're going to. Really, I'm scared, I'm really scared. I'm just scared. I'm just scared, I'm trying Scared.

Speaker 3: 3:37:09

We're going to finish this sometime in August or September of 2029 is my estimation, but we're glad to be doing it with you. Thank you everybody, Thanks for listening to us, as always. Please support your local libraries in the written word and raise better boys. Raise, raise, raise better boys. If you can do it, if you have that shot, if you're a person who is raising children, make sure you get those boys to march to the beat of a drummer. That is not the way they marched to in the past and we'll be back next time, thank you, thank you for joining us. Please consider supporting us and until next time we are Richmond.

Speaker 4: 3:37:53

Till we Die. Where the fuck are my cigarettes?

Speaker 3: 3:38:01

It's so good. I was like what it's so painful's so good. I was like what the the it's so painful and so good the way he reacts, the long drawn out fuck, where the fuck like oh, that's on me, oh you, just your stomach tenses up, um so amazing. All right, everyone, thank you and we'll see you next time.