The Bear | S3 E1 Part1 "Tomorrow"

Ever wondered how stepping out of your comfort zone could change everything? Join us as we unravel the much-anticipated premiere of "The Bear" Season 3, Episode 1, entitled "Tomorrow." Coaches Castleton and Bishop, alongside Boss Emily Chambers, share their unfiltered initial reactions and set the stage for what promises to be a season of immense character growth, unexpected twists and quantum disappointment. We also debate the much-anticipated redemption arc for Carmy and discuss whether the episode met our sky-high expectations.

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The Tedcast is a deep dive podcast exploring the masterpieces that are Ted Lasso on Apple TV+, Wayne on YouTube, and The Bear on FX/Hulu.

Sponsored by Pajiba and The Antagonist, join Boss Emily Chambers and Coaches Bishop and Castleton as they ruminate on all things AFC Richmond, entertainment, and everything in between.

Boss Emily Chambers
Coach Bishop
Coach Castleton

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk, the Tedcast. Welcome all Greyhound fans, welcome all you sinners from the dog track and all the AFC Richmond fans around the world. It's the Lasso way around these parts with Coach, coach and Boss, without further ado, coach Castleton.

Speaker 4: 0:40

Welcome back, beautiful people. Today we are discussing the Bears, season 3. Season 3, mighty. Season 3, episode 1, entitled Tomorrow I am your host, coach Castleton With me, as always, is Coach.

Speaker 3: 0:51

Bishop. I will say more about this later, but apples do not fall far from trees. I will open up the dialogue with that phrase because, wow, that was quite a season premiere okay and uh, with us is our boss, emily chambers that's extremely true.

Speaker 2: 1:11

Um, for those of you who have already binged the entire season, feel free to reach out to me. I watched every single episode I mentioned right before we started recording that. This is, uh, exactly like when I used to go to the Captain Nemo sandwich shop here in Chicago, which is deli subs. This is not like a burger place sandwich shop, this is subs. I've been going there literally my entire life.

Speaker 2: 1:37

Every single time, as an adult, that I went, I would tell myself you're going to get half of a super cheese, that's what you're getting. I would tell myself you're going to get half of a super cheese. That's what you're getting. You're getting half. Every single time. I would order a whole. Every single time. I would tell myself do not eat this until you get home. Don't eat it in the car on the mile drive back to your house. Every single time, I would eat half of the sandwich Every time. I never once made it through the front door with a complete sandwich. It was always half of the whole that I'd already eaten. And that's how I did this. I was like watch one episode, watch one, pace it out, give yourself some time. Nope, whole fucking thing One day.

Speaker 4: 2:20

Wow, wow. So you blasted right through the entirety of season three in one sitting, or did you take a break?

Speaker 2: 2:29

Well, by breaks I had to do work like real job work, but basically it was on, not even in the background, but I would watch it and then I would have to work and then I would watch again. So it took like a few minutes in between each episode.

Speaker 4: 2:46

Okay, okay. So. So that's good Cause you have some more perspective on on the entire series so far. That's interesting. Now, boss, when you did you come into this season with any hard and fast expectations, like, did you know what you wanted to see? Did you have any idea, like, oh yeah, I think I know where this is going to go? Did you watch trailers for season three?

Speaker 2: 3:11

As few as possible. I knew that there was some, that the kitchen was not running as well as everyone had hoped it might, but I have stopped. Just as I've gotten older in life, people are like oh well, what do you think on Bob's burgers? Who do you think Tina is going to marry? And I'm like I'm not speculating on that. I don't care, that is not an important thing to me. What I want to watch is what they want to show me. So, like I will, I am just going to accept whatever you give to me.

Speaker 3: 3:42

I bloody well give over you're saying like yeah I'm like, yeah, I'm much more than I'm here for it yeah, yeah, I'm much I'm much more than generally.

Speaker 2: 3:51

But yeah, I get you yeah, I just I'm like I can't speculating, doesn't isn't fun for me on these shows um, but did you see the trailers and things for season three?

Speaker 4: 4:04

I avoided those at all costs. I did. I made it without seeing them. As soon as I, they would pop onto something and I would, you know, skip it or click away or look elsewhere. I just didn't want to, I did not seek anything.

Speaker 2: 4:17

When things I, when I saw some things like there was the initial like teaser, not even a trailer, it was just right Car me walking into the kitchen.

Speaker 4: 4:24

Yeah, and.

Speaker 2: 4:24

I was like I. You just stay damaged. Car me. It's fine, Lip, I will love you in whatever form you present yourself. It's fine. It's fine to me. If that's what you need that's fine. I can love you through that. It's fine.

Speaker 4: 4:37

Okay, what? Just in terms of?

Speaker 3: 4:48

my experience coming into this, what do you mean? Well, your expectations, like, did you have an idea about? Yeah, well, like, what you wanted to see? Yeah, yeah, um, I was definitely curious about clear um and where that was gonna go, because, like I said, there's part of me that was like you know what, bro, just stay in the freezer. Just, it's been a good run. You really fucked that one up, um, but yeah, that that. So I was very curious about that um in particular. And, yeah, I was, I am curious to see what happened.

Speaker 3: 5:25

You know what happens when everybody steps out of their comfort zone. Like what's going to happen now? Growth isn't a straight line, so folks are going to revert. They're not all going to revert in the same moments. Then, when they do revert, in the same overs, what that? What's that going to mean? So, yeah, I was. I was just much more. I was generally curious. I was particularly invested in what is khan brandu about, how he just fucked up with claire, because I'm not sure you can fix that one I think, uh boss would say there's a road back for everyone.

Speaker 4: 5:58

Uh, thank you, coach. I um I asked you this question because I thought, um, I came in with a empty slate and the more I watched, the more I watched season three, episode one tomorrow, the more I had a sense that I this is not what I wanted. Yeah, like, I came, I'm very interested. We have not talked about this for everyone listening. Uh, thank you for joining us. If you're joining us for the first time, uh, what we do is we, we break down shows. Uh, we've done ted lasso, we've done wayne and now we're doing the bear. Uh, we've jumped forward in time. We started out by breaking down season one, but we jumped forward to try to, uh, you know, sort of be up to date with the drop of season three. And I had a reaction, um, where I was like god, okay, like I had a very strange reaction to this episode, um, and so I can't wait to hear, uh, how it landed.

Speaker 3: 6:59

Uh, for you guys I will share in the general reaction section of this that when I texted just simply S3E1, completed, to both our text thread and to Daphne, and Daphne's response, I believe, was it was gorgeous. It might have been it was beautiful, but it was something like that and I tended to agree.

Speaker 3: 7:24

I didn't tend to agree, I agree that was her reaction to this episode, to this episode, was it was beautiful and I, I, I leaned, I agreed, although I did see a headline for an article that was basically the bear is not a good show and we need to accept that or something like that. And I didn't read the article because I tend not to read a lot of the coverage of stuff we're talking about, but I thought really that sounds like clickbait.

Speaker 3: 7:53

I'm loving it. So yeah, yeah, yeah, it could be. I mean, you know, I never think that first, because I'm not intellectually bankrupt. But yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, a lot of things I like that I like that a lot yeah.

Speaker 4: 8:13

You just um, boss, oh, uh, general, um, specifically for season, uh, sorry for the opener of season three general reactions. As you started watching, how are you feeling? Were you nervous? Were you excited? You're open to the. You know, you said you're open to the, just like I'm open to the universe. Let the gods of entertainment, uh, rain down upon me with whatever, uh, they deem fit. But as you get into it, it's got. It's got a mood. I mean, it starts with a mood. There's a vibe to start. We open on some some train images, some establishing shots. It's all gloomy, there's a melancholy vibe to it. We see carmy from behind, first of all, uh, silhouetted against the windows, and then, um, he's not talking. We have some atmospheric music and then we see what is the first insert so close up on his right hand.

Speaker 2: 9:13

There's a deep scar in it and it seems not like a childhood scar. This doesn't seem like something he's had forever. This seems very much related to being a chef and working in kitchens.

Speaker 3: 9:26

Healing.

Speaker 2: 9:27

Yeah, I also. I I'm not sure if it's going to be important for anybody else, but the opening train shots. The L is the in Chicago trains like the, the subway, except Chicago's like fuck that, not underground in the air. So the L's are the ones that go in mostly the city. They touch some of the closer suburbs. What we were looking at is the metro which is further out. I'm not saying that's symbolic yet, but I am saying that it gives us a grander aspect of the city. Um, also in terms of this episode.

Speaker 2: 10:05

So I said briefly to Bishop in our For the Community site, only For the Buttercups, only our brief little podcast, that there are some restaurants where you go and it is the tasting menu and they say we are giving you 10 different things and it is going to be an. Actual. People use the word journey too much, I think, but journey like we're going to have you taste a bunch of different things and the meal itself is going to say a specific thing. You might not love every single course. There might be one where you're like this is making me actually feel uncomfortable when I eat it. This is not like the texture is different or the flavors are clashing in a way that I'm not sure I'm used to. But the overall meal itself is supposed to be about going through all those emotions, not necessarily having one or the other.

Speaker 2: 10:58

So to relate that to this, the opening episode I felt like was not in a moose boosh, but sort of it is setting the tone for a lot of things and like putting out what I think will become themes later on the season, without trying to say like this is salty, sweet, fatty, you're gonna love it. Like it's not feel good. It's not feel good tv. But I liked it. A-good TV, but I liked it a lot and I enjoyed watching it and it gave me a really great idea of where I think they're going.

Speaker 4: 11:34

Ah Okay, that's what you felt for the opening. Yes, the whole episode, or just like sort of the okay, okay, and it didn't bother you that. It felt like a primer episode, like in that there was a limited amount of dialogue, a limited amount of like plot movement, it felt to me like a tremendous amount of. It was like an extended sort of music video. Um, it was like an extended sort of music video. Uh, that where it was like um, hey, let's you know when they say like uh, previously on the bear, it was a lot of that mixed in with some other things we hadn't seen before, like right, some that you go okay, ah, okay, this is so. They're giving us this perspective to get us to a certain place. I thought it was clever in the way that it wove together things that we were familiar with and then moments we had heard alluded to but we hadn't seen ourselves Go ahead. Coach.

Speaker 3: 12:38

Well, so because I'm trying to find a word, sorry, I feel like I've shared a central question for me just in life that I've bumped into. That's knows that a story is a collection of moments. But what if a moment is a collection of stories? And the opening of the Bear, in my opinion, was that kind of moment. All sorts of stories exist and existed in that night, right. Sorts of stories exist and existed in that night, right, the, the, the relationship was said, and their mother, you know, you know, donna, like all of it, right, and so what I experienced here and enjoyed but I wouldn't be surprised if, if you find a lot of company coach in terms of like, what is this like? Why are we watching a music video is.

Speaker 3: 13:45

I found myself appreciating this way of looking at this moment and it felt like it was the story of the experience as opposed to the story of the event. Now, some would argue if I wanted to go through the experience, I'd read a novel called the Bear. I'm watching an episode of a show. So I want the events, I want events, I want this to move forward, but for me it moved forward in terms of my understanding of the characters, my understanding of what I'm actually watching and what I actually just watched for two seasons in some cases became clearer. So I guess it addressed for me and this is truly not me going and that's good storytelling. I think it's one very risky storytelling. And two I'm not sure whether it's good or bad, but's good storytelling. I think it's one very risky storytelling. And two I'm not sure whether it's good or bad, but I can tell you I like it in that when I engage with a story, really engage with a story, this tends to be some of the stuff that I want to dig into.

Speaker 2: 14:58

Yes.

Speaker 3: 14:58

Right. So I've found a lot of these little exchanges and so on fascinating in the context of what else I've seen them do and what I know they'll have to do going forward to make a restaurant.

Speaker 2: 15:10

Yeah, I think that there, okay, sometimes on shows it feels like they are going back to the same well over and over again, sometimes that it works incredibly successfully, and sometimes I'm like you're doing this, really, we're doing this again, but Ross and Rachel are breaking up and getting back together again. Really, I think that the it was a break. And, by the way, like you could chart my track through adulthood by when I was on Rachel's side and when I was on Ross's side. I'm not pretending like that, didn't it that? That?

Speaker 3: 15:46

wasn't. That's really funny. We have to have that conversation one day.

Speaker 2: 15:49

But I think that sometimes it feels like are we going back to this because there are things that were intentionally left unresolved prior and we need to finish those or we need to advance those? And are we going back to this because this worked before, so we're going to do it again? Like and I think that in this case it is much more gross, is not linear like you don't just get better and then stay better, you don't deal with something one time and then you put it away forever. Like you, it turned 40 and you're like, ah shit, my dad is dead and I'm 40 now, so maybe I'm going to need to figure that out and it comes up. So like having the flashbacks, the presence, the time cuts.

Speaker 2: 16:33

It to me made it feel like this is a better description of what Carmi is feeling right now. A lot of these moments are times where he did as well as he's ever done in his entire life and this is the worst that things have ever been. And I think the night after opening your own restaurant, which you're hoping to get a michelin star for, and you spent it locked in the fucking walk-in and you fucked up your relationship with your girlfriend I could understand why he would be reflecting on, reflecting on those moments. That makes a lot of sense to me. Yeah, okay.

Speaker 3: 17:10

And also seeing the event Through a certain set of eyes. And I, I I'll come back to that as we go into the, to the episode, and we are actually addressing, you know, about last night, kind of, you know, but I, I, I have a take. I, I think when we feel a certain way about an event, we, we, we tend to feel that way about everything around it, right, so, like everything becomes that. So if I loved my trip to blah, blah, blah, all of a sudden it's this quaint little story about this restaurant we went to and the waitress didn't understand us If I hated the fucking trip, it's, you know, jesus Christ, nobody understood a goddamn thing I said, and I almost fucking starved the next day.

Speaker 3: 17:51

And so you know, I mean, it's just what we do. And so he's feeling how he's feeling right now, he did fuck up on a number of levels and we can talk about that and even the idea of overwhelm, but he, it means he's not seeing the full picture. And I and I've pointed out before, I think sometimes in our society that I think he's seeing.

Speaker 3: 18:23

He's seeing everything quote about last night in the harshest, most carmy sucks possible light possible.

Speaker 4: 18:35

Okay.

Speaker 3: 18:36

Or light possible. Excuse me, you need two possibles there. That's a lot of possibility, but my point being that's not all that happened last night. Did you fuck up with your girlfriend? Yup, should you have gotten that handle fixed Also? Yup, that's not all that happened, and unless he can get himself to a place where he can see the picture more completely, last night won't be the only night that doesn't go so great.

Speaker 4: 19:06

Okay, all right. So, uh, I just I want to make sure that I want to be on the same page as everybody. Um, when we left season two, carmi had where we're talking a lot about his quote, unquote fuck ups or his mistakes, right, uh, coach, you're referencing the fact that his natural inclination is to beat himself up over these things. Um, the, the, the. What is the biggest? Um, what is the most leading into season three, what is for to both of your eyes or to your minds, what is the biggest mistake carmy made? Uh, like, because it's, it's sort of framed in an unforgivable way, uh, or or like a like you really fucked up, bro, type of you know feeling, um, and, and so, what's the biggest? Is there one glaring one, or is it the series Of them? Is it the? Is it the fact that there was a snowball Effect to the Cooler mishap, the walk-in freezer mishap, like? What is the? What's the? What's this big Mistake?

Speaker 2: 20:20

I mean yeah, no, you go ahead. Sorry, go ahead, boys Well quickly I'll jump in.

Speaker 3: 20:24

Oh sorry, Go ahead, boss. Well, quickly, I'll just say that it's he thinks it's focusing on one thing and not the other. I would argue that it's not focusing on the right thing at the right time.

Speaker 4: 20:39

Yeah.

Speaker 3: 20:42

OK, so we're meant to believe.

Speaker 4: 20:44

Ok, I just want to. I want to. Just sorry, boss, just for clarification. I'm, I'm definitely, I'm excited to hear what you have to say. Um, I, I coach. You're saying, uh, he's focusing on the restaurant when he should be focusing on claire, or he's focusing claire when he should be focusing on the restaurant, and that his focus is not on the right thing at the right time is, to your mind, the big fuck up of yeah I mean, I would even argue, if you're trapped, is the most important thing for you to not be trapped, or is the most important thing for you to do any and everything you can possibly do to make sure things go as they should in the kitchen?

Speaker 3: 21:25

That's two different things. He made them the same thing. They're not the same thing. So when he's in there just screaming, he's not helping. When he's screaming where, in the freezer, when he's essentially just get me out of here and we see all that, he's thinking I got to get out into the kitchen. He's not thinking the kitchen needs to run well, and that's not the same thing. So that's just another.

Speaker 4: 21:50

It's another level of what I'm describing okay, um, how had he, uh, boss, I'm I'm sorry, I'm just a couple clarifying questions before we get to your answer on this. Uh, had, had he, to your mind, um had had the show? Uh suggested that he had learned these lessons before, or, um, I guess? I guess, let me frame it a different way. How is anyone else tired of all the sorries from carmy um, as a, as a character trait? Uh, especially in light of the fact that many of these sorry seem to be similar things he's saying sorry for it is that? Does that weigh in at all? Or did that, did that? Did you feel that at all in listening to this or watching this episode? Actually, coach, I just want you to answer that, because I really want to hear Boss's thing, and then it might take us down a different avenue.

Speaker 3: 22:56

Okay, no, I'm not Now. I will account for the fact that I watched a season and a half in a day, so my experience of it may also be different. You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4: 23:10

Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3: 23:11

So maybe it's like well, yeah, I mean it was just Tuesday, I mean he just seemed to have a bad day, as opposed to me watching him over a course of years and going God damn army again. Okay, that's all. No, yeah, that's it.

Speaker 4: 23:25

I um, okay, that's all. Actually, that's all I know. Yeah, that's it. No, I'm gonna. I just want to hear bosses like what the bit? There's a reason. The reason I'm asking is I want to make sure I understand where, where our jump off point is for all three of us um and I want to hear what boss is thing like what was carmy's big mistake?

Speaker 4: 23:39

or like you know. You know there's a lot of when we enter season three. There's this. There's this palpable sense of it's not quite dread, it's like melancholy, or the lights are so low, the music is this very, very, it's like dirgy atmospheric stuff and I just want to know, leading into that, what was Karmie's big mistake in your mind at the end of Season 2?

Speaker 2: 24:04

Leading into that. What was Karmie's big mistake in your mind at the end of season two? I think his biggest mistake through the end of season two is believing that achieving excellence means you force out failure rather than embrace it. If you really want to be excellent, you have to acknowledge failures are going to happen and incorporate that into your idea. And he instead is demanding everybody work at perfection, and that fucks him okay, all right, this is what I thought.

Speaker 4: 24:37

Okay, so I need a quick time out for therapy, but I'll be back.

Speaker 3: 24:41

You guys go ahead without me all right, no, all right.

Speaker 4: 24:45

So when I ask you guys what your the big mistake is, it's what you have inferred and like, analyzed and considered. Because to my eye, the big mistake is that carmen got locked in the. He forgot to call the the door handle thing, that door handle person or whatever, or you know, there was a number of chances. He had to fix the handle on the door and he didn't, and he got locked in the freezer on opening night. That seems to be the big the. That's the inciting event. That sid is like you abandoned me. That gets him in a fight with richie, fine, freeze to death in there. Um, that gets him to lose claire, um, and I'm like okay. So the big thing is that he was just so distracted in opening up a michelin star restaurant that he didn't do the very basic follow-up on what might have seemed the least important on thing on his task list. Right, and and for me I go. Hmm, that's not unforgivable to me.

Speaker 3: 25:44

That like but I also. There's a total lack of empathy. What's that? I don't think. Well, go ahead, because I thought that was a period, not a comma. Go ahead. And also there's a total lack of empathy. Go ahead, tom.

Speaker 4: 25:55

When everybody's pissed off at him for abandoning them. It's not like there was any intent for him to get locked in there. It was like a total fluke If locked in there. It was like a total fluke, uh, if that was on this team, right? Let's just say this. Let's say we're in, we're in, uh, the three of us, and and the buttercups open up a restaurant, um, and, and coach gets locked in the walk-in freezer. Is everyone screaming a coach like hey, what the they'd be like all right, we got you, coach, hang on, coach, we're good. And that's actually what they did. Everybody stepped up in an amazing way and they they brought it home right. It was like. It was like amazing to see how they pivot and one of the dudes is smoking crack, right.

Speaker 4: 26:33

So I just thought, like these are great team moments. But I'm like why is the takeaway that carmy fucking blew it like that. He that he fought like he, like there's no intent to fuck, like if it was, if he was out with claire instead of at the opening, I could see that if he was, um, you know, willfully, I understand he was losing his shit a little bit, which we've seen before, where he started to like freak out and and sid was like whoa, whoa, take it down and they do the, the I'm sorry, chef, which I liked. I'm like okay, yeah, that's, that's progress, like the fact that she in the moment, can call him out and then they can do the sorry. I'm like these are really good things.

Speaker 4: 27:11

But I'm like, okay, I wasn't as I. I was surprised that there wasn't um more empathy for, like fuck dude, I'm so sorry that that happened to you, that you got stuck in, stuck in the thing. I'm glad that we built a system and a team that can rise to the occasion when one of us drops out. That's a good sign for the future. I'm like, what? Maybe it's because I look at things from an optimistic or positivist standpoint, but I'm like that dude didn't try to get locked in a freezer.

Speaker 3: 27:42

I don't think it's a matter of years, and so I think you tend. Intent means the world to you, like even when you've described that your family, which I love. If somebody spills something, everybody jumps up to help clean it up, because they didn't mean to spill it.

Speaker 4: 28:27

Nobody ever means to spill anything.

Speaker 3: 28:30

I know that and I get that, and I don't think it would be wrong to be for one of two things to happen. One, for there to be a family where people go well, we're not going to, you know applaud like we're all at summer camp, but like I'm eating, I didn't spill my shit, I'm going to keep eating I think there's a family within which that's a perfectly reasonable.

Speaker 4: 28:53

You know, of course.

Speaker 1: 28:55

No, no, no, I'm for it, I think most families are like that.

Speaker 3: 28:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I think you know it doesn't mean nobody loves anybody, it's just. You know. That's the culture. Beyond that, though, I think sometimes whether or not someone wanted to, meant to spill becomes a way of not discussing the impact of the spill or how we got there. So one of the things I used to say to my kids, from the time they were really little, was it's not the thing, it's the thing after the thing. So let's say they spill some juice. Yes, they spilled it because they turned and their elbow hit it and da-da-da-da-da, but they spilled the motherfucking juice because they put the cup on the edge of the table. Don't put the cup on the edge of the table, don't stand behind a closed door. The number of times I've told my kids don't stand behind a closed door, don't stand at the top of a fucking flight of stairs. Just like got to think about, like it's not the thing, it's the thing after the thing. So for car me.

Speaker 4: 30:01

That is true. Every time I go to your house I open the door and knock both of your kids down the stairs, every time just rolling ass over tea kettles but.

Speaker 3: 30:10

But you know what's funny though they know it now like if they come upstairs to talk to like if my son comes upstairs to talk to me and he stands at the top of stairs with his back to the stairs, he will turn himself. We may still be standing at the top of the stairs, but he's not gonna stand with his back like facing the stairs. Like because he knows I can't even hear anything you're saying right now so what?

Speaker 4: 30:30

I'm sorry, I'm sorry, no, no, no so to me, karm.

Speaker 3: 30:35

The thing is you're you're treating that like it's a little thing, but it's not a little thing, and you learned that on opening night. That's where all the motherfucking food is, bro. We got to be able to get in and out of there, so he was focused in the wrong place.

Speaker 3: 30:51

So no, I don't blame you for getting locked in there, but I will say you needed to do better. So, like Marcus, marcus deserve to have that donut slapped out of his hand. No, yeah, marcus fucking up. Yes, marcus was fucking up. Right, marcus was fucking up.

Speaker 4: 31:09

Oh, coach hold on let me because I know boss is going to jump in. I'm only trying to table set for the season three premiere. So this is I. I wanted to get you the read on that as we enter this, the, the opening scene. And the reason I ask is because it seems like, due to the mood in season three, there's an accepted thing, uh, like there's an accepted moon, like a tone like oh fuck, there's some, there's some making up that needs to happen. Right, it's like this is that is that a fair statement? Like we're gonna, we gotta, patch some things up as season three opens. Is that is that fair? Um, and the reason I say it is because you got. It seems like, uh, the community who watches this show, the listening community, uh, the watching community, um, sort of all agrees.

Speaker 4: 31:58

And it's not lost on me that, like carmy is the one always saying sorry or that, like this is a. It feels like a habitual sort of carmy thing. Even when we go back in time and we look, there's references to you know, carmy, doing certain things that frustrate other people, and sometimes it's you know, why are you such a little bitch? And sometimes it's oh, we got a baby car, me and all these different things. So I know that there's a car me through line that goes through this. I was thinking if that was Marcus, if that was Sid, if somebody else got locked in there, it would not have ended up like that. The heavens fall and everybody hates whoever you know. It's like not the evil cooler where, if once you're in there, everyone starts to hate you. So why is it unique to car me? It's immaterial. I just wanted to make sure. I wanted to see where you guys came from, because, as we start season three, there's a real, you know, very, very discernible sense of but what, what's the right term? Go ahead, coach. Well.

Speaker 4: 32:58

We should let.

Speaker 3: 32:59

Foss talk every once in a while too.

Speaker 3: 33:04

His behavior, though, I think, drives this. I know what you're saying, that the quote mistake right is that? But I would argue no, the mistake is you're in there and your cousin comes, and I say it very intentionally. Your cousin comes to talk to you and you alienate him and you're supposed to be working arm and arm like I don't think that abandonment is just getting locked in there. That's's what I'm saying. I'm saying that he abandoned Sid more fundamentally than that, and so his getting locked in there isn't just a mistake, it's you. We went into this thing. We're doing a fucking high wire act. You can't be waving to your girlfriend down on the ground. I am way up in the goddamn air.

Speaker 4: 34:02

Like you gotta be here with me. He barely even took the food to his girlfriend. He barely even, like they had to, like coax him to go out and give his girlfriend food. It doesn't matter, I can't wait to do the deep dive.

Speaker 3: 34:11

When you're the leader. You cannot. You cannot be the one who fucks something like that up.

Speaker 4: 34:19

You can't Walks into the wrong place. Okay, no, it's fine. Okay, no, no. Who, for days and days and days, doesn't get the?

Speaker 3: 34:25

thing fixed. That's what I mean, though, by the thing before the thing. It's like oh, we ran out of gas. Okay, but we ran out of gas because last night, when shit was calm, you decided I'll do it in the morning, and this morning, when shit was chaotic, you forgot that. You said that shit last night, and now we're on the side of the road. So am I saying nobody can ever miss out on gassing up the car? No, but I am saying if you're in charge of the fucking trip, part of being in charge of the trip is being the one who makes sure we have gas in the car. I've never looked at my kids and been like how could we not have charged the car last night? Like we who? What the fuck are you talking about, orlando? Charge the car is your motherfucking job and it has to be done okay, in the words of do the right thing.

Speaker 4: 35:10

I got it, I'm gone.

Speaker 2: 35:12

Let me introduce you to our boss emily chambers um, the mistake wasn't getting caught in the walk-in, the mistake was freaking the fuck out because he was locked in the walk-in. That is something I can. That carries a tremendous amount more validity to me.

Speaker 4: 35:31

Because that is a discernible choice that he made. Yes, I got that Okay.

Speaker 2: 35:36

In the same way to tie it to the first season. When Sid accidentally leaves the pre-order on, that's a fuck up. That was a fuck up. But when Carmen freaked the fuck out and started streaming Fire Everything without a plan and without taking a beat and without like settling himself down Once he was in the walk-in, he was like fuck you to everybody out there, Get me the fuck out. I shouldn't be dating Claire. It's like what the fuck are you?

Speaker 4: 35:59

talking about this show likes mottos and it's you know, every second counts, let it rip. I have been having a really funny reaction to the term fire everything, like I actually want it on my thing Because I'm like I would pull a team aside, like if I was starting a restaurant. I'd be like listen everybody, bring it in, bring it in. All right, here we go. Under no circumstances do I want anyone, including myself, to yell, and I quote fire everything. If I'm yelling, that somebody pull me aside and be like no, no, no bro.

Speaker 3: 36:32

This is a thing. What the fuck kind of general is this? That's like some ready to aim shit Like what the fuck.

Speaker 4: 36:41

Yeah, yeah, I laugh every time I hear fire, everything. I'm like, oh my god, that's the thing you can't see. Just don't ever say fire. No, I was so funny.

Speaker 3: 36:49

I'm like 22, 23. Whatever our friend is driving, there's a bunch of us in the car, so she gets this intersection and, whatever happens, somebody did do something crazy I don't remember all the details a long time ago, but she screamed. Like she handled the situation just the driving part, just fine. But she screamed. And once we got through the intersection I said listen, you, the driver, you can't scream, you can't scream, everybody else can scream, the driver cannot scream, period. That's the end of the discussion. If you know you're gonna have to scream, don't fucking drive me nowhere. The driver can't scream. And he's the driver and he screamed. He screamed when he said fire everything. He screamed when he's fucking slapped away the donut. You, when you're the driver, you can't scream. That literally that whole fucking kitchen could be on fire and it has to. They have to be able to look at you and think we are going to make it through this night yeah, what's the first thing?

Speaker 4: 37:47

yeah, no, no, listen, I was the first one. We we've been watching shows together for a long time now. Um, I, I don't want to put you on the spot, but I I was going to say what is the first thing I look for, like the very first thing, when I watch a new show. And I don't want to put you on the spot, but I was going to say what is the first thing I look for, like the very first thing, when I watch a new show, and I don't want anyone to have to guess and realize that you guys pay attention to each other more than me, which is a fact, but the first thing I feel is am I in good hands?

Speaker 1: 38:11

Am I in good hands? Yeah, I say it all the time when I write Like I see the opening camera shots.

Speaker 4: 38:17

I see the opening camera shots, I see the, the dialogue, I see the, the. You know the sort of thing that's being built and I go, am I in good hands? And if I'm in good hands, I relax and watch the show. If I think you're just fucking with me and you don't know the answers, right like right? No, I'm not, I don't feel like I'm in good hands.

Speaker 4: 38:32

Yeah, not exactly exactly right, you driver can't scream. I really love, love that. So, boss, as we're opening, I want you to walk us through this series of the images. We're only you know, we're right, spot on at the two minute mark. We've seen the train, the Metro. Thanks for clarifying that. By the way, that it wasn't the L, actually. That's a great point. I would not have known that I've ridden both.

Speaker 4: 38:58

And yes, oh, factually point, I would not have known that um and uh, I've written both and yes, oh, yeah, no, that's yeah, um, and what we have is, uh, uh, a shot of the look at the, the dark, um, the rest, the bear restaurant, not the person the bear restaurant is, you know, unlit lights are not on.

Speaker 2: 39:17

Uh, and walk us through what we're seeing here, boss, please so there is some light coming into the main dining room from the kitchen, but it it's not very much. He comes through and immediately starts cleaning everything up. Uh, there are wine glasses on the table that he stares at and, as he's looking in close, there's also a couple of cigarette. Butts, don't smoke inside the restaurant when it's illegal. Number two don't do that. That's that's not where we do that. So he doesn't love whoever was. That was staff.

Speaker 3: 39:49

I was going to say that was not during dinner. That was holy shit, that was fucking nuts. Let's have a drink.

Speaker 2: 39:55

That was yes. That was let's have a drink. That was yes. That was let's have a drink and we're gonna smoke inside, even though we're not supposed to. Uh, he moves the flowers, he takes down the board with the menu, he's cleaning up and straightening chairs at the bar, wiping tables. He is pouring himself into the same routine over and over and over again, because he can't stand the emotional mayhem of his life, so he's instead going to focus on organizing the restaurant. Okay, within an inch of its life, in order to make him feel better. Uh, he does a practice play setting including, uh, lighting a candle and then walks across the room and kicks a cart with a wine bucket on it because this is this. Therapy is going really well for him the way that he's doing things I was like why is he lighting candles?

Speaker 4: 40:42

are people coming? Like, what am I? What am I? I wasn't sure. I was a little bit confused. I wasn't sure about timelines and I was like, okay, is this the future?

Speaker 3: 40:50

I can't this I I'm sorry, no, no, no. I'm sorry because, yeah, I, I was doing what you're doing and I think we're meant to One of the things I said you know, I mentioned this when we were doing the general reaction recently is this is not a show you watch while folding your laundry. I said to Daphne some shows are like sipping a nice drink. You just sort of sip your nice drink and whatever I said, this is like bring a steak knife, bring a fork, don't wear a shirt you care about. Like this is some serious shit. And to me that's a little of what's going on here. They're like, yeah, sure, we could go. You know, hey, this is how this one feels and this is where this one is and this is where that one is, and they're like no, work for it. Like work for it, um.

Speaker 3: 41:37

And I'll say in that moment, when he was doing kind of straightening up but whatever, as someone who may or may not have some history of rage-filled moments is all I'm saying no, I'm kidding, but um, there is, there is a quiet aftermath. Seriously, that's almost eerily quiet, like even internally. So I'm sure right now, without last night's event, if Clear walked in, he'd give her a kiss. If Sid walked in, he'd say, whatever, all whatever built up inside him, whatever that pressure is, it's out now. But because it was an explosion, things got damaged Right, these relationships got damaged. So I think in a way it's him just trying to like. I think he's wondering what the fuck happened almost as much as anybody else who was around him. I don't imagine that he would think that in that pressure situation he would behave exactly the way he actually behaved. I think he's like processing that. So now the answer is I'll just be all about the restaurant all the time, which is not the actual answer, but he's going to try it.

Speaker 4: 42:52

OK, yeah, it's allegorical for him trying to clean up his life, but a minute and a half a minute and 38 seconds later, roughly now, he's in a different outfit and I was like, wait, the lighting is different and walk us through this boss. What is happening here?

Speaker 2: 43:08

So we don't know when exactly this is, except that he is wearing a chef's coat, so this is not when he was a child. He is writing in a notebook, keeping different notes of, I'm guessing, what he's learned, but I can't make out the handwriting. I tried stopping on a few different things a few different times, couldn't do it. Um, so we do know that he keeps notebooks of different recipes, that he's perfected. My assumption, oh, this is, uh, car me, the french laundry. So this was one of his first jobs right, there is a.

Speaker 4: 43:42

there is an insert where he throws his notebook. That's like a journal, and there's on the binder, on the binding side, there is a label that says car me the french laundry, which was like, oh okay, like okay, thank you, guess. Thank you for clarifying that. That's like an old school label maker label, and I was like, would he call himself whatever? Or would somebody at the French Laundry have given him that? I was trying to figure out where this came from, you know if it's not an expositional device. But so, yeah, he tosses that down and we see that and then keep, keep going, boss sorry, my interpretation of that is that at the french laundry they give you those books.

Speaker 2: 44:25

Okay, it says carmy, so that he's not confusing it with somebody else's.

Speaker 4: 44:28

Great, absolutely possibility, right?

Speaker 2: 44:31

yeah, I felt right um, we then move to carmy uh separating I want to say it's juniper berries from the branch. Um, we've got uh. Will polter back, who was the chef in copenhagen in season two, who helped train marcus?

Speaker 2: 44:48

yeah, we told the story about the chef that he worked with. Yes, that uh made him better. Um, we're not entirely sure where they are right now, only that the two of them are working side by side, so it's earlier in their careers, and that they're both doing this separating of herbs that carmy has mentioned before tweezing herbs, I might say tweezing.

Speaker 3: 45:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's pretty intense yeah, uh, it's.

Speaker 4: 45:18

It's like I've I've mentioned in the past um, how, uh, there are things where you go, oh, like I, you know, when I was a kid I remember thinking, oh, a really expensive watch is like it's five to ten thousand dollars. You know what I mean. Like, oh, there's like the high end is something I can imagine, and now, like, like I can't even the most expensive watch on the planet. I don't know what it is, but I'm guessing it would be like, you know, like more than people's houses and things like that. It would be like like it would probably be a million dollar watch or I don't know.

Speaker 4: 45:49

Maybe I don't know, but I know that, like I'm never, I'm always blown away by the trajectory of things inside a framework. So when you see this and I think, oh, the best chef I ever saw growing up would have been I don't know, would have been at like a local, I don't know, it would have been like a fancy restaurant in Paris, right, and then when you see what goes into it, like the expectation of the art form, you go, oh, oh, oh. So you tweeze. So part of the game is now that you pick herbs with tweezers Like, okay, okay, cool, like it's resetting my understanding.

Speaker 3: 46:28

Then we get an insert shot of the boat that Marcus lived on in Copenhagen. Jump in quickly. The most expensive watch. I did a quick Google search. It did make me wonder, and it is I'm'm gonna fuck up this name but a patek philippe grandmaster chime 6300, a dash 0, 1, 0 and it went at auction for a cool 31.19 million dollars. Oh, I just ruined I just ruined. I just ruined your christ gift, but I felt that the Buttercup's amazing Thank you, coach. So there you go.

Speaker 4: 47:00

No, I did want that. Yeah, thank you, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely Nothing says you more than a $32 million watch.

Speaker 3: 47:05

There you go.

Speaker 4: 47:06

That is my brand, yeah.

Speaker 3: 47:08

No, that is my brand.

Speaker 4: 47:09

Get me two of them, yeah right, exactly. Why? Why stop at one? Um? So, yes, we have an insert of the uh of the boat that uh marcus um uh lived on and and fed the invisible cat, coco um, which was a uh, a great uh time in marcus's uh training and existence, when he met the will polter character named luca and he learned how to make just sick desserts. Um, in copenhagen, one of the most beautiful places in the world, or the most beautiful place, according to carmy, most beautiful place he'd ever seen.

Speaker 2: 47:47

So, boss, keep walking us through this please, as we as we see uh, the establishing shot of the boat and we see and we see carmy feeding invisible cat cocoa and watering plants and appreciating copenhagen, uh, walking across its beautiful bridges and admiring, like sort of uh, uh, the calmness of it, uh, which is immediately intercut with, uh, the fishes episode, the aftermath of that, where Unk Richie both the facts and Carmi are outside watching Donna's car be towed away after it was presumably removed from the house.

Speaker 3: 48:26

It took me a moment to process that and all you know, there was a. There's a lot going on and there was a lot going on, but I was like, wait what Like? Where the fact brothers?

Speaker 4: 48:39

then the sweaters was a great touch because it was like oh, that's, you know exactly yeah, yeah, like totally helped me go oh oh oh okay, because I was a little lost there, what the fuck was going on and you think it's part of the design.

Speaker 4: 48:51

And so, for me, I saw this and I went fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Okay. Now here's why Because I came into season three. Okay, this is the difference between process-oriented and goal-oriented. I came in not being like you guys, I didn't realize it, I wasn't like I'm here for the journey, everybody. I was like give me some fucking answers about what is happening right now.

Speaker 4: 49:16

And then when I got here, I was like, oh shit, we got a real time thing. We got a let's jump back. And then we got a let's really jump back. And and I saw, okay, sort of internal beat of hanging with Carmi and you know a scene that maybe tells you what his mood is, with the resetting of the of the restaurant. We got a scene where it was like, oh, let's, let's go, let's show you, uh, carmy's growth curve, um, and and I was, I was very aware like when, when he was on the boat and coco, and I was like, okay, we haven't seen this.

Speaker 4: 49:54

We saw him next to the luca character. I was like, oh, we know these things happened. We saw the picture on the wall, but we didn't. We've never seen this happen. So now it's like, okay, we're gonna see car me in the restaurant, in in the in the now, in the real time. Then we're gonna go back and see his journey, which we hadn't seen but we know existed, and then we're gonna go back and see his personal journey. For now we're outside the chef world and now we're in his like, back into his family life, and now we're going to explore that. And I was like, oh OK. I was like all right, this is OK, it's a choice, this is what we're doing. But I was like I didn't want this. This is what. I was like, ok, I think it's just the difference between being process and goal oriented. And I came in, unknowingly, a much more goal oriented than I had originally intended to.

Speaker 3: 50:42

That's all One. I appreciate that. That's really insightful. Actually, this is not the first time and the reason I perked up on that point is this is not the first time you have spoken to wanting to know, and I believe when we talked even about the afterlife, your take on the afterlife was that will be my opportunity to say to God okay, what's this all about? And-.

Speaker 4: 51:08

I get every question answered. That's my version of heaven Every single thing. It gets answered for me.

Speaker 3: 51:14

Right, and it's funny because and I won't take you through the whole experience, but I had a very I've had a number of pretty powerful experiences just trying to like dig into what's up with me, and one of them led me to it's always about the questions- I was like what if this was that?

Speaker 3: 51:34

I was like it's always about the questions Every time you get to an answer, look for the next question. That's like a thing I have worked through in my life, that that is what I'm doing. And so, probably, as you went, fuck, I went, oh, oh, now we're going to see. Oh, ok, now you're the one who's nervous. Okay, how do we deal with that? How were you treated? Oh, that's interesting, you know, like it's just I, I, yeah, I wanted to know more and I kind of feel less and less clear on the relationship with cicero, which I'm also like great, can't wait to learn how the fuck that unfolded. Like I, that's sort of, yeah, I. I found myself more curious. I think I shared with you personally I I don't know if I've said on the podcast I used to do a thing when I was on the train in new york, um, on subway, um, because we put ours underground, um, that all worked out great anyway, um, but uh, the, the the game was I would look around the car and I would imagine stories for each of the people in the car.

Speaker 3: 52:46

So there's a woman over there with her grocery cart and it's got bags from blah, blah, blah oh yeah, she had to go because her son needs this and blah, blah, blah when she gets back home, right, and I would make up these stories, like just about people in the car around me, and so, in a way, this approach is almost like they're going. You see this interesting group of people. All right, cool, we're going to play that game together now, though with visuals. Oh cool, why sugar like that, like that? Well, funny, you should ask. Yeah, why is, why did you do that? Funny, you should ask you know it?

Speaker 4: 53:27

didn't feel like a departure for you at all. Uh, in that we haven't had a full episode that was all of like this sort of montage.

Speaker 3: 53:37

Uh well, it definitely it definitely was a choice, right like it definitely was, because I just I actually did um and it's very crude, but I did a quick word count on the transcript for this episode and the transcript for the season two finale and roughly a thousand words for the transcript for this one and five thousand words, yeah, for because it was because it was like a montage completely so, yes, but I enjoyed it and I felt like it was an extension of what I've said about the show before, which is they ain't gonna tell me.

Speaker 3: 54:18

They're not gonna tell me. Oh, you know, carmy's wondering what the fuck and how could he blow up like this and he ruined everything and what the fuck is wrong with him. They're just gonna show him coming out and lighting a candle for motherfuckers when he's gonna show up and pulling out his notebook, and then it's my job to figure out what I see going on there. So I liked it, but I get where. If you were like God, there were so many questions, let's get to answering them. Exponentially more questions would be frustrating, and there are definitely exponentially more questions, leaving this episode for me, which is exciting for you, right which?

Speaker 3: 54:58

is totally exciting for me. Totally exciting for me.

Speaker 4: 55:04

Nice.

Speaker 2: 55:05

Yeah, I didn't think of this as a departure from earlier style, so much as an extension of some scenes that we have seen before. Like we've seen long establishing shots of different parts of Chicago. We have seen. When we get to it, when we go back to cover and deep dive on season one, there's a scene in episode four where Cicero is talking to Carmi about Carmi's dad. Yeah, and that feels in the same vein as this, like it doesn't feel like reality, it feels like sort of a dream state giving us more information in a much more poetic way, and so I felt like this was just a. We are going to keep doing this in the same way. We're going to give you a lot of information. I felt like there was a lot of answers that were conveyed, just not about what is happening tomorrow in the restaurant. This is everything that has happened before.

Speaker 2: 56:02

I think also um, I almost always am I am here for the plot, not for the characters. I want to like the characters, but if the plot doesn't work, like people raved about mayor beast town, but I didn't appreciate the murder mystery and I was like you guys, it's fucking bad, it's fucking like I know that mayor is going through all this grief and shit, but it's a fucking bad murder mystery so I can't get here for it. On this one, I feel like the only goal is car me learning how to be okay with not being happy all the time. So if we spend all of the episodes talking about that explicitly, I'm fucking fine with that. Like that, that would be. That's great as far as I'm concerned with goals.

Speaker 4: 56:47

Okay, yeah, yeah, it's fine, it's, it's. I understand that tonally. Some of those scenes with the one you referenced, with Carmi talking to, to uncle Jimmy have a sort of dreamlike quality to them. Definitely. I think that's intentional, At least for me. I was waiting for the we're four and a half minutes in. I was waiting for the montage-y cuts to give way to some scenes like interactive, dialogue-based plot movement, and instead what they opted for was sort of an overview, a refresh and an overview, and they opted not to do that. That's again, totally fine.

Speaker 4: 57:39

The coach bishop in my head is like this is going to be great, Like let's just see where this goes. This is good for them, I love this. And the cynic in my head says, oh, you weren't sure what to do with season three and so you went and looked at your greatest hits. If the fishes episode, someone said, oh, Mulaney was amazing. I wish we had more Mulaney in this. And then you're like, okay, how can we give everybody what they want? And that's the cynical take where it's like let's play our greatest hits, so, so that again. Oh wow.

Speaker 3: 58:15

This felt like behind the music, to me not greatest hits. This felt to me like yes, this felt like. Yeah, sorry, go ahead boss.

Speaker 2: 58:24

This is the refrain no, no, no. This is the same refrain in Les Mis, coming up over and over and over again. This wasn't a rehashing. This is the theme of the entire show being I don't want to say, exposed. What's the word I'm looking for here? Displayed specifically in this way. They're saying like here is pain and grief and striving to be excellent and sacrifice. Here's all the shit that the show has been talking about, wrapped up in this ball of everything that he's been through.

Speaker 3: 58:55

I think for me, writing, I tend to go from the feeling. I remember actually saying that on set when I was directing Dinner for Two which I'm very thankful that the crew seemed to be able to kind of rock with me on that but I said, look, this thing started with a feeling and needs to end with a feeling. I had a feeling and we're going to go through all this shit and somebody's going to watch this shit and somebody's gonna watch this and they're gonna have a feeling. It's gonna start a feeling and with a feeling and we can't lose that throughout the process. And to me this captured the feeling and I get why.

Speaker 3: 59:26

For some it's like what? I'm not here for feelings, I'm here for a story and a story has popped right, all that. But I actually really enjoyed an opportunity to understand and connect to these characters. So when you call it an overview, that's that's like actually not opposite, but close. You know maybe what? 135 degrees right, like I mean maybe not 180, but from what? My experience of it? Because I felt like I understood better at the end. And there were moments we'll get to them.

Speaker 3: 1:00:01

But there are moments where I was like oh shit, I've had almost that exact fucking experience.

Speaker 4: 1:00:06

Have you ever read a book in a series where you you're reading the book series and then you say you're at book three or book four and then you realize the author has to do a tap dance for the people who just happened to pick up the book at an airport and hadn't read the previous book, where they're introing all the characters and showing you whatever.

Speaker 4: 1:00:25

I had a little bit of that during this episode because I was like I wonder if the studio gave him a note like listen, there aren't any other shows dropping right now. You're going to get an influx of like millions of new viewers based on your success. You know, you got to have some retrospective element to the opening um episode to catch people up who aren't in it. And and I stood back looking from that perspective and I was like if I came into this show hadn't seen season one and season two and this is the way this was my entree I would think it was like masterful, because what it did was what I initially said, was it gave us this sort of refresher about, okay, what's happened. It gave us these, these moments that we've seen, really sort of key moments, but also gave us new moments and gave us a perspective and all the tone was um, the tone, the tone was the bear. It wasn't like they changed their tone. This is. You know it was true to form.

Speaker 3: 1:01:22

It's not the Christmas episode or something like that Exactly. Yes, no, no, for real.

Speaker 4: 1:01:28

No, no, seriously it was. And so in that way it was, I was thinking, oh, I bet there was some note where they had to like catch people up in a way. Anyway, when we see, when we see that the mom's car, donna's car is is carried away by a wrecker, and there's a moment we hadn't seen we had alluded to Claire Bear being, everyone had interfered. Who asked you to do that? Who asked you to do that? When, when, when Carmi was like talking to Mikey and Richie and they had put in some form of good word, he's like what did you do about Claire? But we hadn't seen her in that episode. She did not appear in the fishes episode. But now we get a shot from outside and what do we see here, coach?

Speaker 3: 1:02:26

She is watching the aftermath. People are outside as they would be, as people drift out to see what the chaos is. And what I loved about seeing her here is actually one of the moments I really appreciated is sometimes when we get to know somebody. Part of it is learning the shit right, like learning, oh, in your family, this is the person who does this or that's a problem here, or there's a thing people don't talk about or well, they're siblings but they don't really speak. Like all that shit is part of making your way into a relationship. I should say, in a general, my general experience Right, general. I should say in a general, my general experience right here.

Speaker 3: 1:03:01

She's seen the embarrassing part to some degree. She just saw the aftermath of your drunk mother driving into a house. So when y'all meet back in front of a cooler and she makes it clear I want your number and, jesus christ, why'd you give me the wrong number? We know that when she said that, she wasn't saying, oh, here's some cute guy I just knew was cute in high school and I wonder how things would have gone. She's saying no, no, I know warts and all fucked up, mom, snap temper, hyper focus, whatever. I love you, and I think that's different than oh, I find you attractive. We should get to know each other.

Speaker 3: 1:03:50

What they had was not a meet cute. They had long since met and they knew, and she knows enough that she knows that she knows it's rough. Whatever fuck's going on in your house, it must be some serious shit, because I have seen some shit and I have never seen anybody drive a fucking car intentionally into their motherfucker house, like I don't even know what that means or what you thought it was going to accomplish, like wow. So anyway, for me that was informative, because it's like she is saying I'll embrace all of you In Death of a Salesman. There's a line I love.

Speaker 3: 1:04:28

I taught it when I was an English teacher and it says a man is not a piece of fruit. And what he's talking about is like you don't just, you know, eat the delicious part and throw away the rind, and you know that's I mean a man is not a piece of fruit. And to me she was saying we now know that. She was saying I love the whole fruit rind and all. Let's do it. Yeah, I see you, and that makes his fuck up even worse to me. It wasn't just some girl.

Speaker 2: 1:04:57

He went a few dates with so on. That that fuck up. What I liked is that they had claire physically present that she was not going to be something that they talked about she was going to be involved in the show like we were not going to see the last of the actress molly, whose name. I'm forgetting right now but she, she is going to be in the story. This is not a. People are brushing us under the rug.

Speaker 4: 1:05:19

Right, got it. Oh, that was it. I thought there was more. Okay, all right, good, good. Nope, that was it. Okay, all right. So, boss, keep walking us through here. We pivot from there to a scene. I was like okay, jesus, so there's so many different time, like this is a real keeping track of the text.

Speaker 3: 1:05:44

It's so funny because your voice saying the things like it's like classic, like if we both read the script, we could both read the exact same script. It would sound so different. Because I'm like, and there were all these jumps around in time and you kind of had to like piece together where they are in his life and his story and why are we seeing this here? So like you're like literally I could repeat what you just said with all the excitement in the world.

Speaker 4: 1:06:09

It's fascinating to me yeah, no, no sure I. I, I just really wanted to be engaged with it and I had to do some mental work that took me personally out of it to say, like when I saw Sugar's hair here in the next scene. You know, you look at Natalie's hair and I'm like, oh okay, that's a style I haven't seen her hair in.

Speaker 1: 1:06:30

I was like okay, when is this again? And I was like hey, this isn't.

Speaker 4: 1:06:34

I'm like I know we've had like three different things and what is this boss?

Speaker 2: 1:06:41

Walk us through this. So number one, Molly Gordon is the actress who plays Claire. I wanted to call that out.

Speaker 4: 1:06:44

Yes, thank you.

Speaker 2: 1:06:51

Number two. They're standing outside of O'Hare. Natalie has bangs, which means this is a few years ago. Or, as Jim Brockmeyer likes to say, bangs are a practical joke. A woman plays on herself every three years.

Speaker 3: 1:07:00

Oh, that's funny, so we might see them again. That's a great fucking line Wow. Like I could watch the whole fucking series based on that recommendation Go ahead.

Speaker 4: 1:07:09

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:07:10

It's so fucking funny, it's so and he means it so much and that's because he wants to help his daughter with her hair. Sorry, Slight spoilers.

Speaker 3: 1:07:17

It means so much, and that's because he wants to help his daughter with her hair.

Speaker 2: 1:07:20

Sorry, slight spoilers. You should watch.

Speaker 3: 1:07:21

It's delicious.

Speaker 2: 1:07:21

Go on, it's done, it's over, it's fine. So Natalie is saying so tomorrow and he says yes, I will call you tomorrow. Like when I get to New York I will call you, I will let you know that everything's okay. She's like do no, I'm good, I really I promise I could go. And then they immediately cut to him. In new york he's like new york's got everything.

Speaker 4: 1:07:42

Like trust me whatever we need, uh, the the city of new york.

Speaker 2: 1:07:46

New york, that little I think they have things, uh, yeah, yeah so this was um, I I will fully admit I was trying to figure out where in the timeline. This is because we know that he said that he went and he worked at the French laundry, all these best kitchens. So like trying to figure out where in. Is this the New York that we saw in season one and this is going to have the asshole chef as the boss? Is this the restaurant? Yes, but I also because I was like just wash over me and tell me whatever you want to. I didn't mind the jumping around, I didn't mind trying to figure out. I because I trust that the show will tell me why it's important to show me this. I was fine with them just throwing shit at me.

Speaker 4: 1:08:30

Yeah, no, I totally get that. Yeah, and he walks into a place. Where is he walking in, boss?

Speaker 2: 1:08:38

so the revolving door says daniel. I have no idea what that means. I've tried looking it up. I don't. I don't know, um, but he is walking into a restaurant because we didn't see the uh front of the new york restaurant. I'm not sure if it is. It's very clearly high-end and fancy. Uh. He's looking around the dining room and then presumably walks back to start that job, although the next time we see him he's wearing a tall chef's hat and walking through the back callways into our kitchen, and I don't think we know which one yet.

Speaker 3: 1:09:11

So I'm going to try to Google maybe as I'm explaining this, which is going to go awesome. But there's something in film and I want to make sure I'm saying the right one, because it's been years, but the Kuleshov effect, I believe, is the right one. Film editing, yes, good. So basically I'm right. So you know obviously Atta boy. Yeah, definitely. If you spend four years at Yale, another uh two at USC film school, um, you'll have this to prove to show for it, 20. Um, so I've been waiting.

Speaker 4: 1:09:47

I've been waiting. How much here we go, baby. That's it, how much that cost you coach.

Speaker 3: 1:09:52

Oh God, uh, actually, god, uh, actually I would, yeah, never mind what I've paid for. At one point I did do the math and from the time I left public school after sixth grade, through the end of college, or is that right, or maybe it was after grad school at anyway, at a certain point I realized that there was a quarter million dollars of tuition, essentially inside my head and I was like, yeah, that somehow I've not translated that potential value. Anyway, I'm distracted. What we're talking about?

Speaker 3: 1:10:23

the bear, okay cool effect here, big payoff on the education. So, um, basically what we're talking about is collision, right, and what happens we do it now because we're accustomed to it and we've watched a thousand shows and we've been growing up doing this that we put two images next to each other and then we fill in the story, right? So boss says a rape joke, as one does, and you cut to coach blanched and you know that coach just heard that joke and you know what coach's reaction is to it. Right, and we can go from there. So what I love about this episode specifically, or one of the things I love about specifically, is the power of collision, because if I see you walk in after I saw you leave right, show up in new york, walk into this building then I see, okay, so you went, you interviewed, you got hired, you're starting right, I can fill all that in, and I think a lesser show with lesser writers would show him going. Well, yeah, yeah, hung out at my brother's, but I know all that shit already.

Speaker 3: 1:11:38

I don't want to hear that shit. Yes, so I just thought you did a great, they just did a great job of being like we. We're going to give you the To me. This is how you would remember it if you're Carmi.

Speaker 1: 1:11:48

You might not remember every detail of walking from the subway station, but you might remember the first time you walked through that door that said Daniel.

Speaker 4: 1:11:56

Bravo. There's a great shot Frank Darabont did in Shawshank where the first time the what's his name? I'm trying to think of the character Dufresne, yeah, andy Dufresne. Yes, the first time Andy Dufresne goes into the prison. The camera tilts upward as the sky disappears. And Frank Darabont said because we all did that, he's like. I noticed every one of us as we walked in was like whoa, so they followed that. And so to your point, coach, which is an excellent point, and Boss immediately started nodding her head along with me was there is a this is how I remembered it quality to the cadence of the cuts, and that's a great, great point. At this restaurant now we meet person of interest, one we don't know who. This is to our mind. Am I right in saying that, boss, we don't know this chef.

Speaker 2: 1:12:59

We haven't met him To this point. Oh, also, I should mention, daniel is a restaurant in New York, one that costs more than I will be going to, so I'm sure that your nine course tasting menu is delicious. I don't eat fish so I won't be doing it, but it is a very fancy lovely restaurant.

Speaker 3: 1:13:17

I assume they made it up, so I'm glad you found that out for us. What is a tasting menu?

Speaker 2: 1:13:23

Oh, a tasting menu is something I have learned I don't enjoy actually that's funny, I get it. I don't think I'm a picky eater, but there are so many fancy foods that I'm not. I don't like foie gras, I don't like caviar, I don't like fish. Tasting menus use a lot of those. It is a nine course or some number of courses, usually at least four, but can be more up to 12 sometimes. So you walk into the restaurant and you say feed me, and they bring you a series of courses. Progression of the meal.

Speaker 3: 1:13:57

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:13:58

And they tell you what you are going to eat. You don't get to choose yeah, and you don't get to modify, and you just sit down and you enjoy what they give you. It's basically chef's choice it's just there's a set price for the entire experience and then that's it.

Speaker 3: 1:14:14

You don't yeah a version of this, because it's not. Yeah, it's not the version you just described with, daniel, but if anyone who's uh lives in a city city large enough where there would be a restaurant week a lot of times places will have a tasting menu during restaurant week. No, that's wrong. I'm wrong.

Speaker 2: 1:14:33

No, no, no, You're 100% right. I was just nodding. I was thinking God damn, I fucking love restaurant week. I do too. I had no idea. I would.

Speaker 1: 1:14:41

I was like, God damn, I fucking love Restaurant Week. I do too. I had no idea I would.

Speaker 3: 1:14:43

I was like God damn, this is fucking beautiful the prices are great.

Speaker 2: 1:14:47

The food's awesome. It's so perfect for me. Yes, this is exactly it, because they're not going to give me the fish dish. They're going to give me some choice. It's going to be three courses most of the time. It's going to be $60. I can fucking afford that. It's going to be great yep I love it.

Speaker 3: 1:15:04

It's the most wonderful time yeah, one of the uh can do it. I highly recommend it's.

Speaker 4: 1:15:09

It's really quite nice one of the unintended consequences of having four children was uh, restaurants quickly came off the off the list of things that we can afford. I get that.

Speaker 4: 1:15:20

I think we went to celebrate one time One of our kids did something, graduated from this program. We thought, oh, let's celebrate. And we brought them out to a restaurant I had worked in as a waiter, you know years and years before, a fancy restaurant, and we sat there and paid, you know, entree prices for kids who didn't touch their food and we were like, yeah, that was like. You know, like if you imagine, say, $27 to $35 a plate for kids that eat two bites, you go all right. Well, this is coming off the list until you graduate from college.

Speaker 3: 1:16:02

Oh, this is a hundred and fifty dollars of leftovers. Look at that, really, yeah, and we ate for like a week. I'm for real.

Speaker 4: 1:16:08

Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, okay, so we meet this gentleman. Uh, he's a. He's a, uh middle-aged man and he is, um, he is sort of crafting sea scallops. He's like instructing Carmen wrapped in spinach and wrapped in puff pastry. There's a.

Speaker 4: 1:16:29

Did you guys have a sense about this person? I will tell you that I really liked him right from the jump. I didn't know anything about him, but there was an instructive quality to him and a patient quality that I like really really gravitated to, and I've talked about in my life having the importance of, like trying to find a male mentor. My dad was on the spectrum, so he didn't really he was a great guy, but sometimes he was very Homer Simpson-y about certain things. He was just very rigid about certain concepts and it wasn't like, you know, you could go to him for any to answer any question, especially, uh, when I started gravitating to like art, and he was more of a practical in needs kind of guy. So, um, watching a guy have a mentor like this watching carmy sort of be instructed was was, uh, something I really enjoyed seeing.

Speaker 2: 1:17:18

Go ahead, boss boss, I love that. The only thing that I was going to say is that Jeremy Ellen White said in I think he was on Seth Meyers One of the times when he was on Late Night with Seth Meyers, he said that he would go into kitchens to learn how to do some of this stuff and would have to say to the other chefs like I'm so sorry, I'm an actor, I really apologize, and they're like oh, we know. And so there were a few of these characters on the show sometimes where they're like I found out later that they were a chef, but that's almost like a kind of oh we know, like this guy is not an actor, this guy is a chef in real life. His name is Daniel and I'm going to mispronounce it because it's french and I don't do that uh, boulud b-o-u-l-u-d okay, so he is a in real life, an actual, uh, very famous chef.

Speaker 2: 1:18:13

Okay, I did like I, I picked up on that. He, he does not have the actor vibe and so I haven't checked out every single person on the show who is a real life chef, not a real life actor. But I did very much get, especially the contrast with the shitty new york boss chef, like the difference in him showing car me how to do it, not yelling at him and asking them and those types okay, right, yeah, but was there anyone else that was a chef that you noticed, besides this gentleman in your, in your research?

Speaker 2: 1:18:47

Well, I've watched the whole thing, so yes, okay, got it. There are, there are more chefs. Oh, you're talking about this about this season?

Speaker 4: 1:18:53

Okay, yes, so we see it. We have a series of cuts where the gentleman is teaching Kami lots of things, it looks like over a period of time. It's every type of. I mean, it's just crazy how many different types of food they're cooking. We don't hear the man talk because we got music over top and it is a montage-y sort of cut piece. Montage, sort of cut um, uh piece and uh, we go from there to carmy, um, you know. Again we see the back of him, like we did in the opening shot, and we see him walking to a place and just crashing like he's asleep on his feet. And where is he, boss?

Speaker 2: 1:19:37

we don't know. For a second he's just on a couch. And then a second later we see uh, stevie, played by John Mulaney from season two, come over and cover him with a blanket and say I smell like a goddamn donkey.

Speaker 3: 1:19:50

Yeah, again, though, so much information, right, stevie, who we met, who did the toast? Oh wait, carm stayed on his couch. Like this is a real connection these people have. They look out for each other. It's the kind of relationship where he could sleep on your couch. Not only can he sleep on your couch, but he could sleep on your couch thinking, and you react by telling him he stinks, whether he's too sleep to hear you or not. You know, I mean, I thought it did kind of like, again, give us real info. Like I'm not even sure, is this before, after the cousin? Like maybe he met the cousin through carm, I don't know. But like, obviously there's an actual connection between these two. You don't take off the shoes of a person who you know what I mean. You might bring them a blanket. You're not going to take off his shoes, unless you two are kind of like friends where if he woke up and you would take it off his shoes, he wouldn't assume you were stealing them.

Speaker 4: 1:20:51

Right, okay, but and and Stevie is with cousin Michelle, right, is that? Is this the thing that everyone understands? I mean, that's my understanding, is that?

Speaker 3: 1:20:59

Yes, that was my understanding.

Speaker 4: 1:21:06

Sorry, understands? I mean, that's my understanding. Is that yes, that was my understanding michelle had invited him to new york. She's like I want you to get out of here. It's not good for you here, you know, come, stay with me. He's like I'll try, uh in in true carmy fashion, doesn't say yes, for sure, um, but we, I understood in this scene we were meant to infer that he did take uh, her and and, by association, stevie up on it. Um, and that, um, I'm gonna sound so bad in this episode. I was like, oh, they couldn't get sarah paulson for this scene, so they're like hey, melanie, you're not doing anything, why don't you come pull his shoes? I'm like I don't. I'm like, okay, all right, uh, okay, wow, it's so funny like none of this is my experience at all.

Speaker 3: 1:21:43

Like usually, I'm like oh okay, like I'm like wow, really okay I mean, you are you are likely right, because a season two contract it would have been contained, so it would have been a new sarah paulson contract for what I know about the business, as you know, but like that is not in terms of the storytelling I never and everyone who.

Speaker 4: 1:22:06

This is atypical for me to be the boss on a show, especially a show I love. I love this show, Love it, love it, love it. And I'm saying in being goal-oriented as opposed to process-oriented, I had to do so much catch-up in my mind as I was watching that it probably took me out in ways that I wasn't even when I started to think about the actual Now you're thinking about contracts.

Speaker 3: 1:22:30

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 4: 1:22:32

Which I normally wouldn't have been. He pulls off Karmish's shoes he's like a goddamn donkey Covers them up, which is nice.

Speaker 3: 1:22:45

Now we're meant to believe that's their apartment, uh, and now we cut to what. What is this coach? We're in the kitchen, um, back to where we've seen him be bullied by the chef, uh, played by joel mikhail. Um, I found myself and I know I think we touched on this I found myself wondering, because we're seeing spots of other people as well. I don't doubt this guy, this character, was an asshole to Carm. I wonder if that's all he was them how to spoon that shit on there and not make a mess. We don't see any. We only see this. Um, you know, fuck you. And like we don't see. We see very specific moments, and I would imagine, though, they are very bad and this guy is an asshole. I would imagine it's the worst of the time there, and I'm curious what some of the rest of the time might have included, because somehow Carmi managed to move up in this place, so at some point he said something nice If only you're promoted.

Speaker 4: 1:23:50

Very true, and this is the French Laundry right boss. Is that correct? This is not the Daniel anymore.

Speaker 2: 1:23:56

No, well, daniel is in New York and French Laundry is in San Francisco or Napa Valley around there, so I think that this is at Daniel.

Speaker 4: 1:24:05

Oh, this is at Daniel, although.

Speaker 2: 1:24:06

I don't. I think, although it seems like Daniel was named after a guy named Daniel, so I don't think he's supposed to be portraying this real-life chef, but I'm pretty sure that this is. He is definitely the New York asshole boss.

Speaker 4: 1:24:21

Right.

Speaker 2: 1:24:21

So I'm pretty sure this, this is. He is definitely the New York asshole boss, right.

Speaker 4: 1:24:23

So I'm pretty sure, this is New York, so this is New York, and so we're meant to figure out that Carmi has gone from sort of entry-level chef who is under the wing of the sort of gentleman chef that I mentioned before, the older man who was coaching him up, and now this is later in that same uh sort of trajectory or in that same through line um, now he's further along in the universe of that restaurant and now he is, you know, under the auspices of the I don't need it. I mean, up before season three we did not have the joel mckay character was like asshole, it was like nyc chef, no name, right, yeah. So I don't know if you got a name uh yet, but right now, as of, as of this, that's how we see him, as the finicky chef, and I had a. I had a question about whether or not uh to comport with sorry coach's take is the nyc chef.

Speaker 4: 1:25:29

Is this again the total interaction, or are these carmies memories? And the only thing he can remember is when the guy was an asshole like we talk about in sports, how you always remember the thing uh, quarterback throws three touchdowns and you say great game, and he goes. Ah, I had the tight end over the middle for a fourth one, and I fucked it up. You're like no, no, no, think of it. You know, is this Carmi's version of this, where all he remembers about this guy was the live traumatic experience of being under his you know, the eye of Sauron, so to speak, every time he displayed a new plate? I don't know, do you guys have a feeling about that?

Speaker 3: 1:26:11

I? Hmm, my guess is, because of the way the show is, that it's someplace between here and there that the guy is an asshole. But he wasn't an asshole 24 hours a day, seven days a week, which, just judging by what we get to see, would be a logical conclusion. So that's my instinct. I'll add to it that it points to a question we've bumped into a couple times otherwise, which is if you're going to be at this kind kind of level, do you need this kind of coach to get there? I very firmly believe the answer to that is no. Um, I think you can be tough without being cruel, but that's a whole other set of things, and you know I've never run a kitchen that got a star before, so so you know I get it, but but we've we've referenced.

Speaker 3: 1:27:04

That's part of what's at play here?

Speaker 4: 1:27:06

we've coached over the years. We've referenced how many, uh, how much data there is on uh children that came from abusive or over or unrelenting fathers, you know, or you know that sort of thing, and how the you know the data suggests that helped them get over a certain hump. So so, yeah, no, I agree, I agree with what you're saying. Boss, do you have a take on this?

Speaker 2: 1:27:28

Sort of it shockingly aligns a lot with Bishops, that the chef character probably is a total dick, but also Carmi is. We have seen him interact with other chefs in ways that were instructive and mentoring, and so he doesn't have those feelings. How much of this is then shading his image of all of it? I think I've mentioned that last summer I drove to Southern Illinois to stay in some hobbit cabins for a night and on my way down I passed through Champaign-Urbana, where I went to grad school the first time when I was 20 years old and an undergrad. I was like this is the cutest fucking place you're ever going to see in your entire life. You could walk to the bookstore and to the bar, both on the same street. So adorable. And then, as a 40-year-old woman, when I drove back through, I was like, oh, this is central Illinois, this is okay, it's cute, so cute. But I was like there's some sadness around the edges to this that I did not pick up the first time.

Speaker 2: 1:28:28

So I think maybe there's a pretty strong element to that the time, the place, the emotional feeling. He is putting all of that on the chef. I'm sure the chef's a dick, but I don't know if he was a raging dick every single moment of every single day, I think. Also, I want to touch a very quickly on the difference you had to this episode and I did, I think, because joel mckale just popped up.

Speaker 2: 1:28:55

There's an episode of community called um, cooperative calligraphy. It is a bottle episode. It is, in every definition, a bottle episode. The entire thing takes place in a single room and then they have flashbacks to other things to fill in the story. Bottle episodes originally were so that, uh, you know, the cast and crew would get a day off and you could cut together some shit with a couple of new scenes and they'd be like remember that great episode, cooperative calligraphy? They filmed brand new shots for every single flashback scene. So even though I had been watching yes, so I had been watching for two full seasons and they were like, remember that time we went to the dude ranch and I was like I fucking don't wait. What did I miss? How? Did I what is.

Speaker 2: 1:29:40

And so the point of that was that they were going to like it was a joke and they were going to have a bottle up so that wasn't a bottle episode and they were going to leave all of these loose ends untied, just like they apparently went canoeing one time and they didn't take us with, and that's fine.

Speaker 3: 1:29:54

And so I was a little more ready to jump into this, to be like okay into this, to be like, okay, you're showing me shit I don't know yet and I need to keep up to figure out. So, yeah, maybe I'm just prepared for it. So I also, as I, as I was watching this, you know this interaction. In particular, it made me think about in fishes, when they do say, you know, we put in a good word for you with care, with claire, and blah blah, and his reaction isn't because I actually I thought about this later, especially after the meltdown in the freezer his reaction isn't. Oh my god, that's so embarrassing. What did you say? I hope blah blah, oh no, what am I gonna do that? Like? What am I? What am I gonna do of? It is, you guys are fucking with me. You did this to make my life worse. You did this to make a fool of me.

Speaker 3: 1:30:49

That's a different reaction he had. That's a really negative take on. Like what the fuck just happened? Like even if you're like you guys are so annoying. If I wanted to say something to her, I would have said something to her. That's different than you said something to her to make me look like an asshole, and I know it now. And if you look at their reactions mikey maybe especially, but all of them are kind of like what the fuck man and even stevie is like this is a good thing, like you all right over there, like we, and so another reason I don't take this as like an account from a reliable narrator is I have watched this guy interact with somebody and come away with an impression and I'm like that's not exactly what was said.

Speaker 4: 1:31:43

I'm amazed by that. Take Coach, especially from you. That's amazing Coach once gave I was talking about I have children with anxiety and they had some successes and then had more anxiety and I would be like I was like what is wrong with you guys? Like everything worked out Like that's a dream come true and Coach goes. No, man, no. If you have anxiety, the only thing worse than not getting what you want. You guys like everything worked out like that's a dream come true and coach goes. No, man, no. If you have anxiety, the only thing worse than not getting what you want is getting what you want.

Speaker 4: 1:32:07

Now you have a whole new list of things to be anxious about, right, and so I that coach, based on you telling me that which is mind-blowing to me, and my kids are like yes, just from now on, can we talk directly to uncle orlando or?

Speaker 3: 1:32:20

that's really funny, we have to be parented by you.

Speaker 4: 1:32:21

Still dummy. Um, I, uh, uh, I, I. I saw that carmy scene and fishes and I was like, oh yeah, that's him being like. He's like what did you say? Like what? Because I thought he was freaking out like now, what do I have to deal with? Like, and he thought you're fucking with me. Based on his history, based on a long list of all you guys do is fuck with me. So I was like I had a totally different read.

Speaker 4: 1:32:43

We're going to break down that episode when we come back to it after finishing season three. But you know it's, there's this, okay, is it? Is it actually? Is this guy an asshole, is he not? Ultimately, we're never going to be able to answer it right now, but what we can say is he shows the New York chef a plate and the guy who the subtitles call him David and his response is what the fuck is this shit? It's way too many components. Basically made nachos. You want to add another fucking sauce. Anybody got any more sauce we can add to this? Uh, we have a dish with dill in it. You know that right? Yes, chef, never repeat ingredients. Move on. Um, I was like oh, it's yeah. Um, the film industry has historically been full of assholes. Like seriously, like serious, like they'll throw a phone at you. You have to be in order to make it.

Speaker 4: 1:33:52

Yeah, lunatics, yeah, sometimes it's. There's all types of harassment. Most of it is illegal and just to get ahead, ahead. Sometimes that's who you have to deal with, um. And then there's that concept of um. You know, sometimes when people get successful, you say, oh, money, uh, doesn't change, you just reveals who you already always were. So a lot of these assholes become bigger assholes than you can possibly imagine and this felt like that to me.

Speaker 4: 1:34:23

I saw Karmie is up front, he's plates this food, he shows it to the chef, everyone behind him looks like. I don't know how people work like this, because I talk about how important workplace environments are, the culture of your workplace, it's really, really important to me. Team building is really important to me and really important to me and and you know understanding that we we tend to spend more time with the people we work with than our own families all of these things factor in and I look at everybody in the back and I'm like, wow, they must really love this to be in this, like high pressure, tense environment, right, and they're not saying a word. But then the auditory receptors kick and they hear this guy, who, all of them. If you're a chef in this room.

Speaker 4: 1:35:06

I'm guessing you would look at Carmi the way Luca looked at him, like oh that's, I cannot believe how good that chef. That chef is un-fucking-believable. And then you hear him just disrobed publicly by this other guy. I'm like, oh, my Like, what is this environment? And it gives me stress to watch and look at it. And and and, and. You're like, okay, it's in the pursuit of perfection. And this guy is basically what coach and I would say is like, he's like the Bobby Knight version. Right, he, his, his, his way of coaching is to scream and yell and and rage and whatever you, whatever His version of that is belittling and talking down. But it's not necessarily how we would think success comes through coaching. It's certainly not the Ted Lasso way of coaching.

Speaker 3: 1:35:53

No, and I'll share. I mean, I had coaches, and sometimes this stuff is self-selecting. I'm not saying it was good, just that it worked. I had coaches who yelled at me who I hated and it made me shut down some and I had to learn how to navigate around that and just sort of do my thing, despite the fact that they were coaching me improperly for me. But there were other coaches who yelled at me and that was not my experience and the difference was always is this person expressing a belief in me? So if the yelling even if it weren't said explicitly was, I know you can do better than that. So what the fuck's going on here? Okay, like that pushed me to want to live up to whatever you saw in me, but the this I would have gotten fired eventually either for blowing up at him or for not blowing up at him and shutting down over the course of time and then just you know, basically being reduced to like putting hot dogs on a plate with a vacant look on my face. I can't function like this.

Speaker 4: 1:37:04

You didn't have that realization during it. When you were a little kid, you had that realization.

Speaker 3: 1:37:08

No no, no, no, that's new. This is all new shit to me analyzing my life from the gray beard seats.

Speaker 4: 1:37:16

Now this chef David, the NYC chef, after he dresses Carmi down, he pulls out a piece of tape and cuts it with scissors. And we see Carmi notice that and I was like, oh okay, so that move that Carmi really reveres comes from this guy. He equates that with this level of excellence. Right, and it was interesting to see that, because he was really. This is his, as far as we knew ahead of time, like this is something he's like I subscribe to this and um and so that's that was the insight into that. The chef David writes something in Sharpie. We don't see it initially and, boss, what does he say here? That's how you do better. And what does the tape say?

Speaker 2: 1:38:03

Subtract.

Speaker 4: 1:38:04

Yeah, okay, keep going boss.

Speaker 2: 1:38:09

So now we are with Carmi wearing a chef's jacket. He is doing closeups on everything from the kitchen that he sees wrong Dirt on the floor, the lock from the walk-in there's a shot of him another flashback slamming against the door and raging inside. And then Sid brings him a coffee. There's a tool bag like a belt tool belt that says Neil Jeff Falk. So I like that. We get his full name. And then Carmi opens the walk-in door and goes in. It's obviously been fixed. Turns out that maybe the fix was as easy as getting fuck to get his fucking drill and get it fixed, which is another fuck up that we could deal with at another point um, and then we have like okay, when is this?

Speaker 4: 1:38:59

but I see this is so confusing for me, I love it. You're just like yeah, yeah, this is one. Okay, look at what happens here. We get carmy getting his. He's sitting on the table in the kitchen. Sid comes in wearing the um. Uh, what do you call this? Uh, again the chef. Uh, what's this? Uh, that jacket called the fancy jacket he bought for her um, as a gift I just thought it was a a chef coat, chef jacket.

Speaker 4: 1:39:27

I don't know if it has okay um, and, and and based on the color of of the bandana on her head. Um, that is. This is like opening day time frame, right?

Speaker 2: 1:39:43

Yes, this is after opening night. This is closing after opening night.

Speaker 3: 1:39:47

This is the next morning, or whatever.

Speaker 4: 1:39:50

Oh, is it? Because it looks dark?

Speaker 2: 1:39:53

I thought this was at night, after they'd gotten him out, and service was over.

Speaker 4: 1:39:56

Okay. So after they got that's what I thought. So after they got him out, now he had been cut out of the freezer and he's sitting there, you know, reflecting by himself in the kitchen and Sid brings him a to-go cup coffee and to-go cup, right, and they're sitting next to each other. And so I was like, okay, we're eight minutes in. At this point I'm like, oh, do we get a scene? We get like, okay, yeah, what. Okay, so what happened? Now? I was like, oh, good, we're here, this is what I wanted.

Speaker 4: 1:40:32

And when I ended season two, okay, now we'll see whatever. So you get, uh, neil jeff, fac on the uh, on the bag of tools, um, and then I was like, oh wait, now we're repairing the thing. I'm okay, that's repairing the thing must be the following day, I'm guessing. So, okay, now we're actually not with sid and and, uh, carmy. And then they show carmy in his next day outfit, which is the all blues, right, and and he's got his head on the door. And I'm like, okay, so now we're next day outfit, which is the all blues, right, and and he's got his head on the door.

Speaker 4: 1:41:04

And I'm like, okay, so now we're next day. So I'm like, all right, okay, I'm not getting a, I'm not gonna get a, an answer here. I was like, all right, okay, that's fine, uh, but now we're now, we're next day, and so did that all track for you, that quick series of cuts? You wait. But see, yeah, sorry, no, I just didn't know if you followed it or you had. Did anybody have to rewind or anything and go oh wait, what was that? Again like?

Speaker 3: 1:41:26

it just tracked for me in that again, I think speak it to the experience of. It's funny because I I wouldn't be as aware of this if you weren't asking about it. It tracked for me because it doesn't matter to me for my experience of this episode. Okay, she brought he's there in the morning and she brought a cup of coffee because she's come back to the place where she's the executive chef or it's that night in the aftermath of everything, and he and she's just sort of like you know, yeah, that, you know, let's, there's the aftermath in either. In whatever case, this is where they're, this is where their relationship is right now. So, whether it's the next morning or that night, this is where their relationship is right now. So the temporal piece didn't impact me as much because I was like what difference does it? I guess, like I didn't think consciously, but not just saying it to me I'm like what difference does it make? Emotionally? Where they are right now is where that scene shows them and leaves them night, morning. Who gives a shit?

Speaker 2: 1:42:25

no, it was my experience I, I, I love that you said emotionally it temporally is not linear. Emotionally I do think it is vaguely linear in that what carmy is going through is how did I get from there to there, to there, to there, to there and this is fucking high fidelity when his albums are all arranged autobiographically Like this is what we're watching right now. That's just coming through in TV form.

Speaker 4: 1:42:57

Okay. And we see him go into the takes the plunge, goes into the new, uh the freezer with the new handle, and we see him labeling things with scissors, you know, cutting the tape appropriately. He had noticed at the end of last season that things were mislabeled to his standards in the freezer. Right, everyone is with me on that. You guys remember that moment um. And then it looks like he goes into uh uh sugar's office and is reorganizing the books on her shelf. Is that?

Speaker 2: 1:43:29

appears to be yes, so yeah, I mean I was really like I.

Speaker 3: 1:43:32

I wondered if it was rearranging, I would have had to go. I did wonder this if it's rearranging or unpacking books that were brought. No, they were there they were there.

Speaker 4: 1:43:39

They were there, yeah, they feel like they definitely were. Like she's had meetings in there. They were there. They were there, yeah, they feel like they were there. No, they definitely were. Like she's had meetings in there, even in the omelet scene or whatever. Every time these books were there, that book was there. Okay.

Speaker 3: 1:43:49

He is taking them all off the shelf.

Speaker 4: 1:43:51

Yeah, so the sense is that he again allegorical, or reordering of his, the environment that he can control, to make up for elements of his life that he is struggling to control? Is that fair analysis? Mm-hmm. Yeah, okay. So we see, we see him do this, we follow through this and then we are back to. We don't know actually where we're back to, because it's just an extreme close-up of just his eyes and then an insert of what he's writing. And what is he writing here, boss?

Speaker 2: 1:44:31

What he is writing, as far as I can tell, in this handwriting is now negotiatum.

Speaker 4: 1:44:37

Yes, correct.

Speaker 2: 1:44:38

It turns out he's trying to write non-negotiables, but his handwriting is not any better than mine, so it's barely legible. But he is writing non-negotiables.

Speaker 4: 1:44:47

Yep and keep going here, boss.

Speaker 2: 1:44:50

Next thing we see is him tying up a chicken, trussing it, putting it onto the tray and he pats it to make sure that it's set and then he moves on. So this is some point in his career. I don't know if we can tell when exactly the outfit indicates. It might be the same as the separating herbs with tweezers, which is a previous scene, but also this next scene, like the outfit is the same.

Speaker 4: 1:45:13

Early Daniel, it's the same place.

Speaker 2: 1:45:16

No, no, no, this one isn't Daniel. Oh, this is French.

Speaker 3: 1:45:20

Laundry Right, didn't you say?

Speaker 4: 1:45:22

Cause oh, this is French line. Cause. This is what he's with Luca.

Speaker 2: 1:45:26

Right. Exactly, and he wasn't with Luca at New York, so I'm not sure if we know when he first met Luca Um, and then the the next scene actually gives us more information, because chef terry, played by olivia coleman from forks back in season two great olivia walks over oh man I love her um she's really really great really love her. I think she's amazing. Um walks over and says it gently and kindly, but faster and cleaner, chef.

Speaker 4: 1:46:13

So at this point, what we know, is that the work with the tweezers where he worked with Luca is in the same restaurant where Richie staged in season two. Right, ok, good, ok, so we're in the French Laundry and we see that. Well, no, no, no, wait, no, this one isn't French Laundry. Oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker 2: 1:46:23

This restaurant is the one where richie worked in chicago. It has been said that it's probably based on ever a real restaurant here. That's high class tasting menu, all that shit. I don't think that they have established that on the show, but that's okay, right, so this is a a different.

Speaker 4: 1:46:39

this is early. Carmy and lumi and Luca where they had originally worked, and then we come to find, okay, so the reveal here is that this is Chef Terry's place. Correct Got it yes.

Speaker 4: 1:46:52

Oh, that's so interesting, okay, okay, actually, I'm learning as we go because I thought this was okay, all right. I was like chef terry is the sue here before she gets her own place? And this is the same place as where he had where. So, like the head chef here would have been the um asshole guy. Oh, no, yeah, no, no, no, that was my take at all.

Speaker 3: 1:47:24

Yeah, okay, that was my take but I mean, I mean they don't say, which I guess points to what we've been saying about the show generally.

Speaker 2: 1:47:32

But but yeah, I I'm with boston that I thought this was a different setting yeah, I mean they don't say and we haven't discussed this yet but in Forks when Richie is talking to Chef Terry, he asks like how did this place come about? And she was like I had already been a chef, I went too fast, too hard and then I started this place. So I have assumed that she has been head chef at this place, executive chef, since it opened it's opened, right.

Speaker 4: 1:48:03

I didn't know if we were seeing her in the fat in the crash and burn place or one of those places or some pre before, when she was hot-headed when she opened her own place. Okay, I didn't know. Uh, just for clarification, we have now the chicago restaurant, we have the french laundry and we have the daniel.

Speaker 2: 1:48:19

So far, we have the daniel, we have the one that we can call ever yeah, let's call it ever. Yeah, let's call it ever so, yes, so french laundry, ever daniel, I believe. The place where, um, I just looked up his name, uh, old bull duel, or whatever his name is, um, I think that that is a fourth restaurant altogether. I I think that we are seeing four different places, oh, in addition to the bear ah, okay, so the daniel, the chef that you looked up is not at the daniel correct?

Speaker 2: 1:48:57

oh, jesus christ, I think. Let me. Let me me confirm. I'm just going to confuse the shit out of you, but let me double check that that's it.

Speaker 4: 1:49:05

Too many restaurants.

Speaker 3: 1:49:07

It's so funny and I really am going to spend some time on this. I'm sitting here going. This is fascinating. I didn't wonder for a second. He worked at a bunch of places. Some people were nicer than others. We end up seeing some of them again. He now knows that he can send his people to these people to get them where he needs them to be. Boom, I really was like I got, but I just moved, I just went with it and hearing you all reasonable questions. If I were in the writer's room I'd be like so how did we get here? Where was that? Where did that come before? Yeah, like I hear you, but it really just I. I guess I really did just say okay, take me on your ride, because I didn't ask any of this?

Speaker 4: 1:49:51

yeah, fascinating. No, that's good listen. In an effort to deep dive it, I just want to have clarity about what we're actually saying oh yeah, no, I mean the choices that are being made on the screen and I and I, even now I'm still learning as we're going.

Speaker 4: 1:50:01

So, um, but yeah, I, I actually get where you're coming from, coach. Uh, sometimes there's yeah, there's like, yeah, take me on a ride, I'm happy to go along. I don't need every uh, every checkbox checked. Um, there is this uh very astute visual aid here where we see Luca is taking peas out of, uh, um, out of pea pods. Uh, all the several chefs are doing it together and we see that everybody has like an inch. They have containers in front of them that are filled a little bit and, uh, luca and several other people have an inch, and Carmi's already, like you know, 12 inches deep, um with peas here in his container and he's just, you go, oh, it's not like, oh, he's slightly ahead. You're like that dude's a machine like that.

Speaker 4: 1:50:52

That's crazy, you know they give an inch insert of Luca's face, or he's like struggling with some of the the you know the outers of the peep on the pod part. And then there's another chef here who we have seen him in season two as chef Terry's Sue. Is that right? Am I using the right term there? He's the second in command to chef Terry. He's the one that says I'm not going to make a big deal about a smudge, but we have to fuck. Yeah, smudge guy 40, 47 seconds.

Speaker 4: 1:51:27

Right, yes, 47 seconds Right. This guy is also way behind. Yes.

Speaker 2: 1:51:36

I would just very quickly mention I think that the term is executive chef that you have the chef owner, you have the executive chef. So chef terry is chef owner and then the executive chef. Um, I believe also at daniel. Obviously the owner is daniel baldul. How do we pronounce his name? I apologize for that. Then the asshole chef is the um executive chef. And I would also like to mention that you said car me is 12 inches deep and I didn't even say I heard it. I heard it. Okay.

Speaker 4: 1:52:08

I thought boy, that's why I added peas to the to the next.

Speaker 2: 1:52:13

Yeah, cause that's going to make it cleaner. He was only. He was only 12 inches, come on.

Speaker 4: 1:52:21

So we get. It's funny when I know we have to end the episode. I look for a place to like a natural place to cut. And in this episode, who cares? Because it's all montage. Who gives a shit?

Speaker 2: 1:52:41

Yeah, man, you know know what you could tell people that this was just part of the flashback. The next episode we're going to be catching up in the future.

Speaker 3: 1:52:48

Don't worry, we'll move back and forth, I feel like I learned so much and I'm like this is I'm I'm not kidding when I say I'm totally fascinated by how differently we experienced yeah, no, me too yeah I was, I'm stunned that I'm so out on a limb on this one, um, but okay, yeah, that's uh.

Speaker 4: 1:53:07

Uh, listen, we, we, we are pausing here on the beautiful face um of olivia coleman and, uh, she is, she's just, oh god, I love her so much. Um, I just was watching hot fuzz the other day where she was just tremendous and hot fuzz so stupid. Such a funny, stupid throwaway role and she's brilliant. Everything she says is brilliant. I just love her, um, but let's pause there because we'll pick it up, uh next time.

Speaker 3: 1:53:33

Um, yeah, I'm gonna toss a phrase in quickly. I may have already said this to y'all recently, because it's been bouncing around in my head since I saw it. Oh, I did, actually, I said it in the last one. Anyway, the difference between Olivia Colman's character and Joel McHale's character takes me back to a boss wants you to know how powerful they are. A leader wants you to know how powerful you are, and I feel like we see it here in in pretty clear and stark terms. She is leading, she right, and he's, you know, top down. Let me see if I can break you and I shouldn't say he's not. Yeah, actually I will say he's not leading. He is taking them in a direction and he's looking to get people there, but I think leading is specific and it's not what he's doing.

Speaker 4: 1:54:25

He being who? Again, Coach Joel McHale.

Speaker 2: 1:54:29

Shitty New York chef.

Speaker 4: 1:54:30

David.

Speaker 3: 1:54:33

Yes.

Speaker 4: 1:54:34

At one of the 14 restaurants we visited in this retreat. Wonderful Coach, where do people find you if they want to find you?

Speaker 3: 1:54:49

Come through the community, come through the community, come through the community. We are um having some fun conversations. Folks are, you know, jumping in there. We're figuring out how we can finally get coach to like dogs all sorts of fun things going on. That's just dumb.

Speaker 4: 1:54:59

That's so funny for those of you who are new to all this.

Speaker 3: 1:55:03

I grew up with a dog phobia and coach was, uh, central in getting me past that when I want to get past it. So I'm just having a little bit of ridiculous fun he absolutely adores dogs?

Speaker 4: 1:55:17

yeah, I've, I've partnered uh with with a person who is allergic to dogs and so, um, I now do not have dogs and I'm a dog lover, so I'm the guy who stops his car and jumps out to come pet your dog when you're walking, because I'm like, oh my god, that's a beautiful dog and I have done that.

Speaker 4: 1:55:37

Um and, and you know, especially you get a vibe from certain dogs. You're like I just got to go say hi to this dude because this dude's awesome. This dog or she, you know she's a beautiful dog or a great dog. You know, just get a vibe and you're like would you mind any chance I could say hello, I just love it, love dogs. Boss, where do people find you if they want to find you?

Speaker 2: 1:56:03

You can find me on threads talking about how I had one dog my entire life who was mine, and she was not one of those dogs that you'd be like could I come over and pet her? She'd be like I'm a bitch and you should stay back, and this is why we were in love. Shocking this, is it exactly?

Speaker 4: 1:56:13

shocking, shocking that that was the personality of your dog.

Speaker 2: 1:56:16

Yes, shocking that my dog was the kind of dog that one time I had to wrap her up in a cover and put her in the seat next to me and, being blinded in the cover, like completely swaddled, she was still growling the entire time at one of my younger brother's friends because she fucking hated him for no good reason. He is a good dude, she just hated his guts. Anyway, if you want to talk about that, um, uh, I am on threads at Emilychambers.31 or you can find me at blue sky, which is dumbly underscore chambers.

Speaker 4: 1:56:47

I'll be happy to talk about all those things. Sometimes this podcast feels like that car ride. You know it? Just, it coaches your little brother. The dog gets along with him fine, but you're growling at me the entire fucking time.

Speaker 2: 1:57:00

The entire fucking time. I just hate him. He's a perfectly fine guy. I just hate his guts. I literally like I had her eyes covered. She couldn't see him. She shouldn't have known that he was there and just growling the entire time Old factory boss 2,500 times the old factory what? A bitch.

Speaker 4: 1:57:18

Amazing, amazing Dogs are great. Thank you everybody. Thank you for joining us today as we explored the Bear, season 3, episode 1, entitled. Tomorrow, we will be back with Part 2 of our coverage of this episode. If you've joined us for the first time, we really appreciate you taking a chance on us. Sometimes people look at the run times and they're not sure what they're getting into. I would caution you to not get hooked, because they just get longer and it's a pretty terrible podcast. All in all, I would not one out of 10, would not recommend.

Speaker 4: 1:57:51

Thank you Thank you for taking your time to spend any portion of your day with us. We really appreciate it. Please support your local libraries and the written word. Raise better boys, Raise better boys. Raise better boys out there. Everybody, inside America and out, let's make the world a better place.

Speaker 3: 1:58:12

And until next time we are Richmond, richmond Till we die. Silently, stand here and look at the camera and make you understand what we're feeling.

Speaker 4: 1:58:26

Wow, wow, yeah, that's it okay, perfect, coach. Thank you all right, thanks everybody. We'll see you next time. Fire everything, fire everything, jesus christ.