Ink Medicine
Ep. 70: Making Tattooing Kinkier with Ayden Love
Ayden Love is a total Love.
I met Ayden in my tattooing studio when a good friend of mine brought her to get tattooed by me. I put a matching set of tattoos on the two of them. One for "Daddy" and one for "babygirl".
And if you know me, you know how happy that made me.
I love ritual. I love relationships. I love overt power exchange. I love tattoos.
I asked Ayden to come on the podcast and tell me about their journey. And in the process we touched upon as much kink as I myself could handle on this here public forum, as well as ritualistic tattooing. We also talked about Ayden's dislike of eggs and therefore most breakfast dishes, how she got her formidable social media following while not being all that into social media, some of our favorite shows, and I even got some tips on guest spotting. And their small joy at the end of the episode gave me all sorts of happy fuzzy sensory memories.
Ayden works out of their own private studio in Durham, NC, and can be easily found on their website: http://www.thetinyfire.com/
or on instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/the_tinyfire/
You can connect with me, Micah Riot, as well as see my tattoo art on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/micahriot/
Micah's website is www.micahriot.com
The podcast is hosted on Buzzsprout but truly lives in the heart of Micah's website at:
https://www.micahriot.com/ink-medicine-podcast/
Ayden Love is a total Love.
I met Ayden in my tattooing studio when a good friend of mine brought her to get tattooed by me. I put a matching set of tattoos on the two of them. One for "Daddy" and one for "babygirl".
And if you know me, you know how happy that made me.
I love ritual. I love relationships. I love overt power exchange. I love tattoos.
I asked Ayden to come on the podcast and tell me about their journey. And in the process we touched upon as much kink as I myself could handle on this here public forum, as well as ritualistic tattooing. We also talked about Ayden's dislike of eggs and therefore most breakfast dishes, how she got her formidable social media following while not being all that into social media, some of our favorite shows, and I even got some tips on guest spotting. And their small joy at the end of the episode gave me all sorts of happy fuzzy sensory memories.
Ayden works out of their own private studio in Durham, NC, and can be easily found on their website: http://www.thetinyfire.com/
or on instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/the_tinyfire/
You can connect with me, Micah Riot, as well as see my tattoo art on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/micahriot/
Micah's website is www.micahriot.com
The podcast is hosted on Buzzsprout but truly lives in the heart of Micah's website at:
https://www.micahriot.com/ink-medicine-podcast/
Hello, my darlings, this is Micah Riot with another episode of Ink Medicine Podcast. It is May 2nd or May 3rd or May 4th, whenever you decide to listen to this episode, and today I am interviewing a new friend of mine named Aiden Love. Aiden is a tattoo artist, a southern femme, a Leo, a witch, a mom and the baby girl of one of my friends. In fact, the way I met her was through this friend of mine, who brought her to me to tattoo a set of magical, ritualistic, kinky tattoos for her baby girl and for my friend Daddy. If you know me, you know that this made me very happy because I love ritual, I love authenticity, I love relationships and I love play. So let's get into it. Introduce yourself with, like your pronouns and your, some of your identities and your favorite thing to eat for breakfast oh, wow, um, I'm aiden I use she her pronouns um.
Ayden Love:Some of my relevant these include being a queer femme, genderqueer, southerner, a parent, a white person and a witch, and I really struggled to eat breakfast because most breakfast foods I associate with being eggs, which I hate, or sweet things. So anything that is a savory food that's not egg based is my favorite breakfast food, or maybe my breakfast.
Micah Riot:My favorite favorite breakfast food is just lunch that you know what you can eat like lunch, for breakfast, like there's no rule. So you've you. Have you always hated eggs? Yeah, yeah, okay. Yeah, I mean they're kind of weird. I get it like I like them myself, but they're like a weird concept yeah, I think it's more just like they're really sulfury and weird.
Ayden Love:Yeah, but when I was pregnant, the first time I it was the only thing I craved, which was really weird because I had this like cognitive dissonance where I was eating them and knowing that I theoretically hated them I cannot imagine what that would be like it's like getting your body hijacked by some other living being.
Micah Riot:That is that is that is wild. So then, like the second, you like the kid came out, you were like, okay, I hate eggs again.
Ayden Love:It only lasted for the first trimester, okay, yeah.
Micah Riot:Amazing. Yeah, so you're a tattoo artist. Yes, how long have you been tattooing?
Ayden Love:I think I've been tattooing six going on seven years.
Micah Riot:And how did you come to?
Ayden Love:it. So an ex-partner of mine just gave me a tattoo machine for Christmas one year and I came up in the era of tattooing where that was very frowned upon, so I had a hard time receiving the gift because that's not how you're supposed to do it. Um, but that particular partner was, um, I'll say, from a different class bracket than I was and had a lot more entitlement to whatever the fuck they wanted. So they were like you can do anything and I was like that's against the rules and they kind of like bleed me into starting to tattoo our friends. Um, and that's how it started.
Micah Riot:And then what like? Did you end up in a shop? Did you end up getting like formal training? How, how did you continue?
Ayden Love:you continue.
Ayden Love:So most of it was just self-taught, trial and error with lovers and friends.
Ayden Love:And then I went through a particularly like rough year where a lot of traumatic things happened and the career that I was previously in became somewhat triggering to me while I was navigating some health issues and I needed a job really quick.
Ayden Love:So it kind of just became my like side hustle that turned into my full-time job over the course of about a year. I never had any official training from anyone but was um a woman in the town where I live who I would like go over to her house and she would talk me through some technical aspects. We did that a few times um, but I have a background in health care so I had a grasp on all of the sort of safety um issues that one would be concerned with. All the bloodborne pathogen stuff was not unfamiliar to me and I've been an artist my whole life, so it was really learning sort of the technical side of things. But most of my learning has come from trial and error and being in community with other self-taught tattooers and occasionally other official apprentice tattooers that are willing to share their wider breadth of knowledge.
Micah Riot:Yeah, this is interesting. The person who would allow you to come to their house and talk you through stuff is kind of a mentor of yours. Did you meet them through tattooing or did you know them before?
Ayden Love:Yeah, I had a friend of mine who was just really, really amped for me to start tattooing because she's always been really supportive of my art in general, and she was like oh you have to meet Stephanie. I love her, she's tattooed me a whole bunch and Stephanie used to own a shop in Durham, like some years prior, and so she introduced us.
Micah Riot:Wonderful. Are you still friends with that person?
Ayden Love:Yeah, yeah. I mean I think COVID has made all of our relationships a lot more distant than they once were, so I haven't seen her in a while, but we see each other on the internet from time to time.
Micah Riot:So where do you work now? It's a private studio, or I have a private studio in.
Ayden Love:Durham yeah, I did work in a shop for about two years, but it closed last year.
Micah Riot:And you're by yourself now.
Ayden Love:Yeah, which I honestly much prefer because I am an introvert.
Micah Riot:Yeah, I hear that, but you know it's like, over time I feel like it got to me. You know I worked by myself for most of my like 15 years of tattooing and there comes a time when you're like okay, I feel like I'm living in a bubble and then, there's like no input and output, like it's just all internet and like me.
Ayden Love:Yeah, and the internet is a rough place to get all of your input from internet and, like me, yeah and the internet is a rough place to get all of your input from.
Micah Riot:Yeah, I was like scrolling today and I'm in like a kind of a PMDD cycle where I'm just like not at my like peppiest and I was like scrolling today, I was like this was designed to make me feel bad, like I literally work better than me yep every time, I just like don't even let myself scroll anymore because I'm like I'll quit if I keep scrolling.
Micah Riot:Yeah, there's definitely days where I'm like I feel like that, Like I need to stop, like unfollow everybody who is like way better than me and I'll never be at their level, you know.
Ayden Love:I? I appreciate that it's not just me out there Sad scrolling.
Micah Riot:I assume it's all of us, which is why we're all kind of like I feel like depressed as a community of humans.
Ayden Love:Yeah, not just tattooers, but, like you know, everyone.
Micah Riot:Yeah, because I mean, if you're a creative, you're following other creatives and you're like oh, they're doing amazing, beautiful shit. And then if you're somebody who like doesn't think they're creative, then you're like I'm not creative.
Ayden Love:And look at all these creative people Like it doesn't think they're creative. Then you're like I'm not creative. And look at all these creative people like it's the same, yeah, or even just like a person trying to live your life, and then you're like this person has enough money to go on vacation, or this person has enough time and patience to make crafts with their kids, or whatever the thing that you're doing.
Micah Riot:There's just only comparison yeah, it's basically what it's designed for, right. It's like part of capitalism to like make us hustle harder and like do more and spend money on better equipment or whatever.
Ayden Love:Yeah, and it's like I get stuck in a trap where, if I only see the internet for too long, I forget that other tattooers can be nice, um, and I just assume that they'll all be scary and mean um, which is why I really love doing guest spots, because, while it's terrifying before you get there, usually you meet people who are really sweet once you're there. Have you done a lot of guest spotting? Yeah, I try to do one every few months, even if it's somewhere like pretty close by.
Micah Riot:Okay, that's, that's interesting. So, besides, like community, what else do you get out of it?
Ayden Love:I love traveling and seeing new places. Like I just love seeing what a new town is about that I haven't gotten a chance to explore before. But I honestly usually try to go to cities where I have people that I already love and don't get to see very often. So it's kind of an excuse to visit people that I care about. Like I tried a guest spot in Seattle or Tacoma or Portland somewhere in the Northwest a couple times a year so that I can see the people that I knew when I lived there, just to kind of offset the insane resources needed to travel.
Micah Riot:I kind of love that strategy and I haven't done a lot of guest guesting. I've really only done it twice Like right, I've been tattooing for a long time. I've felt like, yeah, people are scary. But when I've guessed that at walk-in shops you end up doing a lot of um, infinity symbols, oh, wow, yeah. I believe that so so I don't know, like maybe it's changed. You know, and I'm um, I'm gonna go do a guest spot in june and I'm excited and also like a little bit terrified where are you going?
Micah Riot:I'm going to chicago fun. I'm going to butterfat studios um. Esther garcia, who owns it, is like somebody I've followed for, like my whole life as a tattooer.
Ayden Love:And that tattooer is incredible.
Micah Riot:Yeah, yeah, like her work, her, her philosophy around it, her like thoughtfulness, her work in like kind of equity and tattooing, like she, you know, does color testing and stuff on like melanin skin. Yeah, she's really great and I am excited and also like terrified.
Ayden Love:Yeah, I bet you'll have a great time I am sure I will Um yeah, I get, I did a guest spot in Chicago. It was really fun. So what did you guess there? Um, I'm totally blanking on the name of the studio right now. It'll come to me in a minute.
Micah Riot:Okay, so for people who want to guest right Like, this is one of the perks of tattooing that you can travel and like work anywhere. Can you give your like best tips? Well, sitting out there, who might be like beginner tattooists? Or just not very experienced guests, guest spotters.
Ayden Love:Yeah, I mean I really started out guesting as a really really new tattooer and probably gained a lot of my initial knowledge through going to shops with artists that were open to somebody with less experience. Carrie Burke that used to own Heart of Gold in Hendersonville gave me my first guest spot and I was like a very fresh first year tattooer at that point or like first year of doing it professionally, and I was always really surprised at sort of the openness and generosity of all of the studios that I've guested at. But I've really prioritized studios and shops that I knew were other queer people or gender nonconforming people, people of color, like I never I've never guest it at some random trad bro shop. I don't know what that experience would be like. I'm not super interested in having it. So for me it's just been about finding a shop that you feel like is in alignment with what makes you feel comfortable just as a person, not even as an artist.
Micah Riot:But that might not be everybody's priority, but for me that's like been the easiest way to combat feeling really scared of how mean people can be. Yeah, so what's your approach? Like what do you do? You're like, okay, I found the shop it's. Do you prefer walk-in shops or?
Ayden Love:I've never done a walk-in tattoo.
Micah Riot:Okay.
Ayden Love:Yeah, I've only.
Ayden Love:Never done a single walk-in tattoo. Okay, never done a single walk-in tattoo Two years in the shop that we own. That was a street shop and I just did customs and occasionally we would do larger flash days. But my way of getting guest spots has just been emailing the shop and almost always you hear back and I've never been told no. I've had some shops that never responded, but nobody's ever been mean to me or been like your tattoos suck, you can't work here. Which is always.
Ayden Love:My worst fear is somebody is going to be like you're. You know, whatever my imposter syndrome will come in and we'll be like you're not good enough. Um, but people are always really sweet and then, um, yeah, just emailing and being being ready to hear no, but usually you hear yes and most of them have a pretty set like guest policy and you know I usually say something about like who I am. Like a brief description of like here's where I'm coming from. Here's the type of tattooing I do. Um, here are the dates I'm interested in. Would love to work at your shop and then they'll send back. Like here's the supplies we do and don't have. Um, here's how we handle booking. Like you're responsible for this. You're not responsible for that. And then what the shop payout uh structure is like?
Micah Riot:and then, as far as booking your clients, do you then advertise in that town like, do you do like some kind of paid ad or do you like, for example, you know, butterfat, like estra said she'll, she'll post for me on their like shop page, which I'm hoping will get some of the clients that I will need to fill my time but I'm also like, kind of, how do I approach that piece of it? You know, like getting booked up for the time they're in like a private studio, because, yeah, there's no welcomes yeah, definitely.
Ayden Love:Um, for me it has mostly just been the internet and knowing people in towns that are willing to sort of cross post for you. Like the shop posting is usually the most helpful thing that I've seen if they're willing to post like a little bit before your visit and then during your visit if you still have openings. And I try to make one or two flash sheets available for each guest spot so there's like new, fresh designs to pick from because people love to see new stuff. And then you know queers know everyone by two degrees of separation. So I'm just like who do I know in Chicago and I'll ask them to repost something about my visit and usually you can find one or two of your friends in one direction where they'll tell their friends and eventually it books it out. But I do think it's been harder in the last year or so to really fill out those bookings. It does feel like it has slowed down some post the mid COVID boom of tattooing.
Micah Riot:Yeah. So I'm curious how you're feeling about that. Like I keep seeing I definitely, you know, have a there's a slower flow, like I have a lot less emails coming in, but books are still full for a little bit ahead. There's been a bunch of cancellations, whatever seems kind of normal. But also like I can feel that there's less you know, interest just the part of like people out there. And then I keep seeing tattooers posts like this is the slowest season ever. We've just all been sitting around like no one's books are full and I'll go and like look at their instagram and they'll have like 20 000 followers and and be like I'm just sitting around and I'm like, okay, well, um, I hope not to get to that point. Um, so how are you feeling with what is considered, I think, like the worst recession tattoo business?
Ayden Love:Yeah, I feel I feel similarly to how you're feeling, like I think I got really spoiled as a tattooer who was only a couple of years in when COVID hit and it was just consistently packed and people were really clamoring to get in with every flash post you make or whatever, or books open or however you do it. But now it does stay consistent for me, like there's never a day that I'm like I didn't have somebody. Today there might be a cancellation last minute or something like that, but it's more like booking out two months instead of six or eight months or whatever the case may be. But then my scarcity mindset comes in and it's like you imagined this career and it is finally disappearing, this thing that you dreamed of.
Ayden Love:But it's helpful when I see other artists sort of going through the same thing, that I think we're all just kind of exhausted, you know, spiritually and in a resource way and in all of the ways possible, just as humans right now, cause, like I think, during COVID, everybody went into this mindset of like, oh, my God, my mortality, like we could all die and we're all going to end up dirt. So I might as well get that tattoo that I've been dreaming of, but I've been too scared to get and I would tattoo a lot of like first time sub suburban, like housewives that were like I don't know. I just am like in my house thinking about it and like why not? Um, I think now people are just fucking broke because groceries are a million dollars and nobody has health care and it just feels harder and harder to like eke out joy, even in these really personal, meaningful rituals that some of us hold dear, you know.
Micah Riot:Yeah. So when, when that mindset comes into play for you, what do you do Like? Where do you go with that?
Ayden Love:That's a really good question. So I think my scarcity brain tries to tell me to just make the most appealing like mass sort of I don't know like the thing that will be the most interesting to the most people and put that out there.
Ayden Love:But I've been trying to like I don't know, everybody loves a flower Like make it really accessible art, make it really like anybody could look at this and be like sure I can slap that sticker on, but it has led me to feeling less inspired by the work as a whole.
Ayden Love:So what I've been trying to do lately is go weirder, and one of the things that that has led to is that I'm trying to restructure a few days a month of my work days to be dedicated to more ritual style tattooing, where it's more about having an entire day set aside for one client that has a specific ritual intention that they want to work with, because I do think that tattoos most often can be for many people a sort of blood magic and really respecting them as that, and so those sessions for me are more about like people don't come with a specific image in mind, they come with an intention, and we do a tarot card reading and we build an altar and we sort of set those intentions and I draw from a more like ritual the information that we're receiving collectively in the moment, rather than I want it to be a butterfly, and that has felt more fulfilling to me than trying to just like mass market myself in a way that feels kind of soul crushing and capitalistic.
Micah Riot:Do you charge differently for those days?
Ayden Love:and capitalistic. Do you charge differently for those days? Yeah, I have a set rate because I want it to be more about, like you know the experience, being more honest to what you're coming for, rather than like you sat for so many hours. So it's like if the tattoo that you need is three inches or if it's a chess piece, I don't want you to have to feel like you're is three inches or if it's a chest piece, I don't want you to have to feel like you're sacrificing what you really need for a budget. So it's just sort of like a here's a day rate and if you're interested in this, like here's what we're doing. And I have been a massage therapist for 12 or 13 years now, and so I offer body work as a sort of wrap-up component to it, doing some craniosacral therapy at the end of the session to kind of like seal it.
Micah Riot:Okay, you still do it afterwards, because craniosacral is not very like body heavy, right?
Ayden Love:no, no you mean like often you're just holding somebody's head or their feet or like maybe their hands.
Micah Riot:That's a beautiful component of tattooing. I love that. I love the like, the comprehensive, like we're doing this like soul, spiritual work and then we're finishing with the physical mortal shell and loving it and ending it that way. That's beautiful.
Ayden Love:Yeah, it feels nice Tie a little bow on it. It also like I don't know. I've lived so many different lives that sometimes it feels kind of compartmentalized and for me it feels really good to have several elements of what has been important to me over time be present in one place.
Micah Riot:So what other details are part of this ritual? So you have a tarot piece, you have the bodywork piece, the tattooing piece, the drawing piece. Do you do special food? What other things? Do you include.
Ayden Love:I think the altar building is a big part of it for most people and I do a grounding exercise with people, very light trance work, and then I've studied very minimally in herbalism and then I've studied very minimally in herbalism before in the before times and so I try to pair everything with supportive herbal tea if people are wants to call in their ancestors or whatever the case may be. So I really want to meet people where they're at with their particular needs for the session. So some of it I leave open do you?
Micah Riot:okay? This will be a weird question, but I want to ask it. Um so kink, okay, I know that, do you? Is that okay to talk about?
Ayden Love:yeah, totally okay.
Micah Riot:So kink is magic too, right, it's also blood magic and body magic and skin magic, like it's part of it. And also, clearly, we have very specific boundaries with our clients, like it's not a relationship. So. But kink to me isn't necessarily sexual. It can be, but it isn't always. Is there ever a time or ways that you include kinky energy or power dynamics or kink rituals, like I think about piercing my clients, like not piercings and piercings, right, but like play piercing? I think about that like as part of a ritual such as what you're describing, definitely like dreamed into something like that, as like part of a tattoo ritual, like. What are your thoughts on this?
Ayden Love:I think that's so fascinating and this is like it's so funny to find aspects of something that's already taboo and then find a such a niche, specific corner of that taboo thing that it's taboo inside of the taboo thing.
Ayden Love:And I think combining the elements of kink and tattooing is as niche as I could imagine, that taboo getting you know, because so much of it and I think maybe this is also specific to the tattoo culture that I came up in which is very queer, it's very consent oriented, it's very aware of power dynamics.
Ayden Love:So if you add that in conjunction with intentional manipulation of power dynamics for kink purposes, like where do you go with it Right? So I think it's a fascinating kind of unexplored territory, which was a really fun part of when, when I got tattooed by you, when we came in and got those matching tattoos cause I was like, oh, this is the first time the ritual that I'm going through is explicit, with the person that is participating and making it happen for me, and being able to like name that that was kinky out loud instead of it having like a private meaning for me or whatever, was really powerful. So I mean, it definitely seems like there are ways to go through that with an intention and consent that are aware of, but not exploiting a power dynamic, but it seems really unexplored, like what are the ways that you've imagined that looking like in an official context?
Micah Riot:I mean in the sense of like tattooing you and your partner who I will not name, but knowing you have a kinky relationship and knowing that person from um not really a kink space, but in kink space as well um, and it was like really fun for me.
Micah Riot:You know, I was like, oh, my friend's coming in with like their girl and they're gonna do this thing and I'll be a part of it. Like it's really fun. It's just like fun and playful and exciting to me and like um had like a like, you know not not like it's not a turn on, but it's like a turn on in like a soulful way. You know, it's like these people have this dynamic. They're both really happy about it and I get to participate in it and it's intimate and so that piece is so fun for me. I've done that before, maybe a couple of times you know, not very many times and I also get that, like most people who are in kink relationships in like power. Dynamic relationships are not going to just like some tattoo artists they don't know probably for those kinds of tattoos, or they're doing it and they're not saying it out loud, like you said.
Micah Riot:You know it's not explicit, but I guess, besides that, that feels very straightforward to me. You're my friend, you're bringing me your partner, your girl, and I'm doing this thing for you Like cool, just in a sense of like. How could I bring in, for example, play piercing, which to me doesn't feel sexual, it feels ritualistic in a way of like. When I've done it the first few times with friends in play space, you're there, you're ready to get pierced and the person piercing you is saying, okay, breathe in, and you know. When I pierce you, like, say your intention, you know, or call in something you want, and then, when we're taking the needle out of your skin, you will say out loud or express in some way something you want to let go of, release, right.
Micah Riot:So I've done these types of rituals in play spaces that were for me like a spiritual experience and not so much like a sexual experience. I think it's always been more of a soulful way to connect to the body, to the spirit and to other people, more than like I'm going to get off on this type of thing, and so, like, for example, play piercing is something I could do with anyone, you know. There are things like beating somebody, flogging somebody, spanking somebody, doing something else to them might feel more like I have to have intimacy with that person. But piercing I could do with almost anyone, you know, and so if somebody would want that experience as part of their ritual, I could imagine being really easily able to provide it. It's just as intimate as tattooing, you know, like it's the same, like yes, we're dealing with your blood and your skin, but I'm gonna be tattooing you, so it's like the same thing. I don't know. I don't know if this makes sense no, it makes total sense to me?
Micah Riot:yeah, because I I feel like I've run into this thing with, like, folks who are not as familiar with kink or for whom kink is very sexual, where if I talked about kink and outside of sexual dynamics, they'd kind of be like what do you mean? Like this is how you feel about that person, and I'll be like no, I just it's like, I see, I'm like I don't know how to talk about it. Well, cause.
Ayden Love:I think it's hard Cause the like outsider perspective on kink is like oh, you get off on causing people pain. That's the most like dumbed down version of what it is and as a tattooer you are really holding that space to try and make a safe and comfortable environment. So to have that cross association of people thinking that, oh, this is like a kinky tattooer means that they're getting off on hurting you, which is like very much not my experience. But that would be like my fear, in sort of outing that connection between people if there's not already that inherent understanding of how kink can be separate from sexual arousal, you know.
Micah Riot:And I feel like, in relation to this conversation, I've heard people, or people have asked me do you like hurting people? Like people have been like do you I? Basically you say this like without using that word, because most people aren't using these words, and I'd be like, no, I don't actually, because it's not part of our relationship. Like without using that word, because most people aren't using these words, and I'd be like, no, I don't actually, because it's not part of our relationship. Like, if I knew they were enjoying it, then I would enjoy it too, because I like making people happy.
Micah Riot:But yeah do I just, in the vacuum, enjoy hurting somebody like no, yeah, it's, it's a slippery slope, it is a slippery slope, um, and then I feel like that question's not very kink, informed, you know definitely yeah.
Ayden Love:And then you also like then you're being asked to sort of like disclose really intimate and personal parts of yourself in a way that is unheard of in other contexts. Like I'm, you know, if somebody asked me if I'm a sadist, I'd really clearly be able to be like, absolutely not, I'm a masochist. I I got reprimanded by the woman that mentored me for apologizing for hurting my client. So like it's actually the opposite for me, but like it's a role I can play on TV. You know of somebody's needs, but like, absolutely not.
Micah Riot:The pain of it is not doing something nice for me you know, but that's, that's like level 202, you know, yeah, and also, what pain is to your average lay person is something complex and layered and intricate to somebody who is kinky, right like for sure. If I'm spanking my partner, I imagine how the warmth and the sting and the pleasure of it like feels at the same time, and then I can tune into how she's feeling and so like that gives me pleasure. Sure, because I can imagine that it feels nice. But like the idea of just like causing someone pain, like for the sake of pain, right like I think that's also why I like things.
Ayden Love:Like cutting things I cannot imagine, because cutting to me seems like a lot more pain than pleasure and that's kind of besides the point yeah, I mean it's also also personal the way different people integrate different sensory experiences, you know, and it's also I mean like if you do any kind of intentional magic ritual, anything like that, there's like a good chance that you're a really empathetic person and combining all these really complex experiences while also having your own energetic boundaries and taking care of yourself. It's just like actually way more to hold than I think most people are thinking of when they come in and get a random flash piece.
Micah Riot:You know For sure. Yeah, and I, like you, I haven't done a lot of those kinds of tattoos. I've only done those tattoos when I've guest bought it. Really, you know, I guess I equate the flash with more walk-in style of work. I don't really draw flash. Maybe it's time because that's what the economy is pointing to.
Micah Riot:But, yeah, like, my tattoos tend to be all very ritualistic, without really setting it up that way, because people come have to wait. I mean you, you know, like the people who wait and you do custom work for, like for them it's deep and important and when they're there, like they're really ready for it. So, yeah, I guess I'm just like back to the kink conversation, because I think that's so interesting, and talking to you specifically about it. Um, I would like to draw in more kink, specific and like, like I I guess overt dynamics that but there aren't going to be seen as sexual, right, like, just just because I'm doing this thing for you and we're calling it this thing, that doesn't it's not a reason for you to hit on me. It not a reason for me to hit on you, like it's not to do with romantic or sexual dynamics, right?
Ayden Love:or, you like, the. The chance of someone being seen is like crossing a boundary, like you know, because that's the other piece of it, you know like that right, yeah, and like as a young person, like I, you know, was assaulted by's.
Ayden Love:The other piece of it, you know, like right, yeah, and like as a young person, like I, you know, was assaulted by a tattooer while getting tattooed when I was 18 and like brand new to it, and so I think that really informs how I try to talk to people about their bodies while they're getting tattooed and try to be aware of that inherent, like power dynamic that you really can't get rid of.
Ayden Love:But sometimes the thing that makes it safe is just naming it right. So maybe, in saying it really blatantly and out loud, that that's the thing that you're trying to attract and that's the type of session that you're trying to do will bring you the people that understand what it is and are trying to have the same kind of experience that you're trying to have, because it's like you were just saying, I think, yeah, definitely, the majority of my clients are coming to me with really heavy shit that they're processing through an experience that I'm with them for. Um, and it was a ritual before I called it a ritual and before I set up all of the extra stuff around it. Um, and, in some ways, that version of it, the less manicured version of it, is more accessible for some people that are not familiar with some of the more explicit aspects of it, but sometimes, if you just are saying it out loud, then people can say yes, that's definitely what I want, even if I didn't previously know that that was a thing I could ask for.
Micah Riot:Mm-hmm, and that's definitely not a thing people think they can ask for, because we're also. We don't speak about power dynamics or intimate things. You know very much in public or with providers.
Ayden Love:Unless it's like a very specifically the context of hiring a sex worker. Like you know, they've really got the skill set. Maybe we should do like a Skillshare trade between professions to like merge some of the brilliant skills.
Micah Riot:That is brilliant. Actually can think of somebody who would probably be a good candidate for that. Yeah, yeah um, yeah, but for what it's worth.
Ayden Love:If anybody is thinking of coming to you for this, I can say my experience with my kink explicit tattoo uh, you were the perfect person and, um, I really loved what you brought to it in terms of facilitating that aspect of it.
Micah Riot:I appreciate you saying that. That's very kind for you to say. I guess I really like authentic, honest, unexpected dynamics and truths in a space you know where it's kind of like with tattoos. You know like I like for things to not be super linear and like take a wild turn. I'm like I love that, like this is part of being human. So doing something unexpected or unusual or something people don't come to me often for is always exciting.
Ayden Love:Definitely. Yeah, that's how you stay in it with inspiration and gratitude, right.
Micah Riot:Mm-hmm, with inspiration and gratitude, right? Um, I wanted to ask you a question earlier when you were talking about the ritual and like what comes to you in the midst of that as you're working with this person. Is you so? You have a specific style? You have like a niche style? Um, do you ever have people who are in that space and then asking for something that you don't usually do?
Ayden Love:Not in the ritual space. I feel like I've been really lucky to just have the clients that are very, very open to like just receiving what happens in the session, and I'm trying to really create an environment where they still feel like they can say, like, no, I don't like that, Like, even if I feel like I got this information from somewhere from the ether or whatever, I don't want them to feel like they have to get it. You know, Um, and it has felt like a really collaborative process. Um, but it was really informed by when I so I, when I was living in Portland this is the most stereotypical sentence I could possibly say. But when I was living in Portland, this is the most stereotypical sentence I could possibly say.
Ayden Love:But when I was living in Portland, I went to witch school and one of the areas of magic that felt really like I had been doing it my whole life I just didn't have a name for it was making charms for people, and so when I started tattooing, I did a lot of designs that were sort of charm informed, and that's the way that I think of it. So there are like bits and pieces that I can imagine if I were making a physical charm to hand somebody, that those are like my personal symbolism that I might bring in, but other people are bringing in, you know, their own components and my job is to sort of weave that narrative together in a cohesive way. But yeah, so far nobody has come through trying to get a ritual tattoo and then being like but could you make it like Garfield skin rip kind of Exactly?
Ayden Love:Yeah, which is a real tattoo I did, but that was um not in a ritual context.
Micah Riot:So, like stylistically, given that you have such a niche style, will you sometimes go outside of that? Like if somebody is like I want a rainbow bright, like whatever.
Ayden Love:Sure, I mean, I think that stuff is fun as long as I feel like technically I can execute it. Some stuff I I'm just like I don't know how to do that. I don't even know how to draw that, but for example, I did tattoo Garfield skin ripping through my friend Leanne's leg and then behind the skin rip it was a rainbow flag and then there was a banner that said these colors don't run, don't run, um. And that's not something I would ever tattoo out of my brain. But when Leanne was like I need this really specific niche um idea, I was like anything for Leanne, you know right.
Micah Riot:When, like, a friend asks you, you're like yeah, I'll do it for you. So then would you post something like that.
Ayden Love:I did post it, yeah, because I thought it was a fucking hilarious tattoo. Okay, cause it's also like a, you know, a reference to like, I think. I think it's like bumper stickers in the South that are like these colors don't run, and then it's like an American flag or like I don't know some really bullshit thing. And you know, we were just trying to have a moment of like. Not everyone in the South is a bigot.
Micah Riot:And like just turning it around on its head. Yeah, yeah, um. So I wonder that, though, about people who have a very new style like, who are like this is what I do, this is, you know, and the scope of this like kind of a narrow style. I guess I do all these different things. Um, by narrow I don't mean, you know, not expansive, just a specific line work and shading and all that. Do you do other stuff and not post it? Like, how do you keep your say? You know, social media looking more linear tends to attract more people, more followers.
Ayden Love:Sometimes I feel almost like I've backed myself into a corner with the style Like there are things that I'd like to explore more, but people see a certain thing on your page and then that's the thing that they ask for, and while I would love to tattoo flowers until the day I die, you know, occasionally I'd like to put some color in there, and so I feel really grateful when people do ask for something that's not all over my feed, cause it gives me a chance to do something new.
Ayden Love:But, like, at the end of the day, if I'm saying no to a request, it's because I just don't think that if I did it, I think you would be able to tell I was faking it. You know what I mean. It's like I've had a few people ask me to like do recreations of some other thing that they saw, and I'm like it's going to look like a photocopy of a photocopy of a photocopy. This isn't. This isn't how I work, and I think that's probably both um a part of the luxury of being some self-taught tattooer that didn't have to like struggle through walk-in shop years, um, that I just got spoiled in doing my own art, but the other piece of it is like it does make you less adaptable in these times of, you know, recession, like I can't just go get a job doing Sailor Jerry pinup style stuff, cause I don't know how to do it.
Micah Riot:I mean, you'd probably learn, since you were in the States.
Ayden Love:I would need some help, but for sure I mean there are also days where I'm like there are artistic visions in my mind that I technically don't know how to execute, that I would love to just walk into a shop and pretend that I've never tattooed in my life and try to get an apprenticeship so that I could learn to be like a neo trad bro, cause I think that shit's beautiful.
Micah Riot:But like I don't people say you know online, like if you are self-taught and you don't feel like you have the you know the basic skills, like you could get an apprenticeship or kind of like retrain or work in someone else's shop and like unofficially retrain right. Like I've thought about it, cause I also feel like I'm self-taught, like I don't think my apprenticeship was um in any way formal.
Ayden Love:There was, you know, the person who was supposed to be my teacher was not there very much and when they were they were tattooing and not watching me and like not talking to me. So, yeah, I hear, I hear that from a lot of people and it seems so unfortunate because most people that I've talked to had really unfortunate apprenticeship experiences and still ended up kind of having to teach themselves. And yeah, I think it's scary. But sometimes I do think about just like trying to go get an apprenticeship to learn a different way of doing it, cause I certainly don't think mine is the best way, it's just the one I've come up with, you know.
Micah Riot:And it's work for you, so you're doing it. I mean, that makes sense, like same for me.
Ayden Love:Totally.
Micah Riot:And I have, over time, just kind of been like okay, I'm like somebody you know, I did a traditional back piece and it was like hard but also really fun, and I think he's really happy with it, and I was like I would do more of this. But because it's not on my feed yeah, people don't come for it, but when they do like, I get excited about it and I'll teach myself to do more of it for sure.
Ayden Love:Really, yeah, the way I sort of like sneak it in every now and then is, if I'm interested in exploring something that's not all over my feed, I'll just draw something in that style and then post it and see if anybody wants it, and it'll give me a chance to sort of play around with new stuff. But now I feel like the internet doesn't show any of my stuff to anyone, so it kind of doesn't matter anymore.
Micah Riot:So, speaking of the internet and it's showing your stuff to people which it doesn't, you're right. How did you build your following? I mean, for a tattooer who's not been doing that long, do you have a good following?
Ayden Love:Yeah, I mean, I think I was just kind of. I think I just lucked out in the time and the place that I started tattooing and I am in the South and my primary clientele are like queer and trans younger people and so there's not a ton of us doing that kind of experience and in addition to that, when I started tattooing there was not very many people doing fine line work at all in all of North Carolina, and especially not like fine line botanical stuff, the way that I tend to focus on. So I feel like it was just kind of the luck of that moment. And when I first started out, I think I was a lot more boisterous and personable on the internet. I'm a little tired and older now and so I don't put as much of my self personality forward, but the internet is a terrible game that you can play.
Ayden Love:And if you're like, willing to like put on a cute outfit and talk to the camera, people see what you're doing more. But it made me feel bad in my spirit Cause I was like I don't know, I could you just look at my art? That's actually the thing I'm trying to show you. I'm not trying to be like a personality, so I definitely see less engagement, the less of myself I'm trying to put on the internet. But also, people are fucking insane.
Ayden Love:I had people like getting in my DMs being like who's your sperm donor, and I'm like that's creepy, like I don't even know you. So, like the more of yourself you put on the internet, the more of yourself you're kind of like vulnerable with, and at the end of the day, I was like I'm just trying to draw tattoos for you. Like I'll get vulnerable in your session once we like know each other, but you don't deserve these parts of me just because you saw them on the internet. So I got a little creeped out and I think, as a result, like I spend less time being there on the internet.
Micah Riot:Yeah, and the internet's not really rewarding anyway, like it just feels like, yeah, everyone is putting in a lot of effort, people who are doing well, putting in lots of effort to make the stuff that they're putting out, and it's not energy that I have.
Ayden Love:It's also like a whole full time job, like not only do you have to be a tattooer and do the tattoos and do the drawings for the tattoos and the emails for the tattoos, but now you also have to be a videographer and an editor and, you know, have this whole other job.
Micah Riot:So what happens if tattoo industry dies? What are you going to do?
Ayden Love:Well, like I said, as a thought experiment.
Micah Riot:What's that? As a thought experiment, more than like reality, because I don't think it's going to happen, but like sure, let's dream, let's dream about it.
Ayden Love:Well, I am still a massage therapist, and so two days a week I do pediatric body work. Um, and as much as that's like a fallback in case the tattoo industry disappears for me, um, it's also just that, as a neurodivergent person, I need novelty to be able to stay interested and to stay good at what I'm doing, and so being able to sort of bounce back and forth between two really different styles of using my brain helps me stay sharper in both of them, so I can still do pediatric body work.
Micah Riot:I guess Pediatric you mean for kids yeah, I do mostly.
Ayden Love:I would say like three months and under is my main um population that I work with, like babies, babies, newborns, wild, that's wild, yeah, but it's really fun and they're so receptive and like open.
Micah Riot:I imagine, so I'm afraid of babies, so I could never do it, but like you're afraid of like dropping them or something, Um, I think the idea of dealing with their bodies is terrifying because they are so there with their bodies is terrifying because they are so they can't communicate like in a adult way, like that's comfortable, that's uncomfortable, that hurts, like I know they'll cry and they'll probably move and stuff, like I know they communicate. But it feels so alien to me the idea of, like you, know like learning the language yeah, like as a as a person who parented a kid for a time.
Micah Riot:my, my stepson, was four when I met him, and so it's what he had some language so much language and like so much expression, attitude and all that so like a four.
Micah Riot:You know, when he first met me he was like I do not care to know you at all, and it took us a while to get to a place where he like trusted me enough to like interact with, not care to know you at all, and it took us a while to get to a place where he like trusted me enough to like interact with me and cry with me and like play with me and all the stuff. Um, it was beautiful and hard. But four like three.
Ayden Love:Four feels like the age I can start to like do deal with kids at like younger is so scary if you threw yourself into it, I bet you'd be better at it than you're giving yourself credit for, because you deal with people's nonverbal communication all day, every day, like you're constantly reading somebody's cues about whether they need a water break or if they're about to tap out, or like you're doing the same thing. Babies are not any different. They're just doing it without words, but they still have that whole system of language in their bodies, and that's what I'm reading when I'm working with them.
Micah Riot:That makes complete sense and I definitely you know it's like we're not all good at the same things and I love the fact that this is like a passion for you and also your parent, and you're going to be a parent again and like this is your thing. I can see how amazing you are as like a nurturing figure in like a person's life, you know, and you're like, I still don't want to hang out with babies.
Micah Riot:I mean, it's like if it's like my dear friend's baby, you know, it's like when I imagine the folks that are around me now, especially the younger folks that I feel nurturing towards that, I feel like I'm their queer uncle or their like grandpa. In case of Sailor, if, like, one of them got pregnant, had a baby, I would be, I would totally be there for them. You know, the baby had babies to the baby. I would feed it, I would stay up night with it, whatever, like I would do the things as like a good grandparent would. Yeah, but I definitely am like was happy to skip, like the parent part of like having the little baby of mine, like starting at four and on and then now having people in their 20s. I'd be like my children. This is, you know, I like I, I feel I feel good about this.
Micah Riot:He's got your niche yeah, my, exactly, I have a niche of parenting yeah.
Ayden Love:so my, I guess my fallback is that particular niche of mine. But lately, because of the neurodivergence, I have to like, uh, quit my career and get a new one every six years. And lately I've been like what if I just quit all of it and go become a nail tech? Okay, and like, you get to do all of the art, but none of it is permanent and you can just like. And like you get to do all of the art, but none of it is permanent and you can just like, do it over again if they don't like it.
Micah Riot:It's just that I feel like you'd have to work so much to make money to live on.
Ayden Love:I don't know Like a full set's, like 150 bucks.
Micah Riot:Hmm, you spend, like what, an hour on it. Yeah, maybe an hour. See, I don't know anything about it because I don't do nails. I don't get nails. Have you seen the show claws? I love the show claws, yeah okay it's very inspiring, like watching a show. I'm like I could be like a gangster nail tag.
Ayden Love:Okay, you could yeah, you could launder a bunch of money.
Micah Riot:While you like, paint really cool designs on nails right, there was like a Russian mafia person yeah, it's part of it and like the butch, the one that's butch I was like, wow, this is so great.
Ayden Love:Wow, I really. Now I want to revisit that show.
Micah Riot:I like love the show for a while and then I was like this is getting tedious, Like there's too many different mafias for the main character, Like she's so stressed out. I just like can't watch her be that stressed out anymore.
Ayden Love:You just want something good to happen to her. Finally.
Micah Riot:Yeah, yeah, yeah, and like it just keeps getting shit and shit and shit and I'm just like she's the best and she's really suffering here and I can't watch this anymore.
Ayden Love:Yeah, that's real. Yeah, I go back and forth with Grey's Anatomy in that same way, like I can watch it for like a month and then I'm like this is too much misfortune.
Micah Riot:I need to take a break. Yeah, watching shows where it's just like bad shit keeps happening is yeah, bad shit keeps happening out there in the world.
Ayden Love:There's already enough bad shit. I don't need to watch entertainment about bad shit.
Micah Riot:Yeah, for real. Do you have a show recommendation for me and the listeners? What's your like favorite thing? That's comfort or just something you really liked in the last couple of years.
Ayden Love:In true neurodivergent fashion. I just keep rewatching the X-Files every time I need to feel comfortable. That's my like safe zone. It's just like me and Dana Scully forever.
Micah Riot:Okay, that's very, very retro classic of you.
Ayden Love:Yeah, it's never going to be a new one, because I was raised Pentecostal so I wasn't allowed to have TV when I was young, so everything is new to me. So I didn't get the X files like in the nineties when everyone else did. I got it a couple of years ago.
Micah Riot:Got it, but it like you're talking about, like the retro 90s style of it. Right, there's no remake, it's just that old.
Ayden Love:Yeah, it's just the original and I just watched it for the first time, like some years back, and now I just keep rewatching it.
Micah Riot:That's great. I never watched it because I didn't come here to this country until I was 12 and I was watching Saved by the Bell.
Ayden Love:There you go, or Buffy. I feel like Buffy is my other one. Last night I saw this new horror movie with a friend of mine and I left it thinking about how many references to feminism were interlaid into some of the visuals. And then I was like this could be a whole dissertation. And then I thought about what it would be on my drive home.
Micah Riot:that would be a dissertation would be yeah, yeah, what was the movie? It was the new omen movie. Okay, yeah, did you watch speaking of horror? Did you watch love lies bleeding?
Ayden Love:that was the one with which one was that. That was the one with k, which one was that.
Micah Riot:That was the one with Kristen Stewart, yeah.
Ayden Love:Yes, I did. Okay, Did you? I absolutely loved it.
Micah Riot:I was sure you did. Yeah, something up your alley. Um, I had no idea what I was walking into. I completely didn't know. It would be like that.
Ayden Love:You saw it too.
Micah Riot:I saw it early on, when I first came out, just being like oh, it's like a working class lesbian love story.
Ayden Love:Boy, were you wrong? Huh, yes, I was. Were you unhappy or were you pleased?
Micah Riot:I was freaked out, honestly. I think even more so because my partner sitting next to me kept being like why did you bring me here? Like why are we here? Like I would not have come if I knew, and I was like I didn't know either. And then I got really defensive because I didn't know either and I felt like responsible for like how she felt.
Ayden Love:So that must've felt awful. I also didn't know what the movie was about when I went into it. Somebody described it to me as lesbian fight club and I was like, obviously I'm in, but that's not what that movie is at all.
Micah Riot:No.
Ayden Love:Yeah, I feel like we all needed more information going in Um, but I I was really pleased with my outcome and I'm sorry you weren't.
Micah Riot:Well, most people who I've talked about it loved it the way you did and, you know, wanted to see it again. I did and, you know, wanted to see it again. I think you know the first murder scene, what I was fine with, even though it was graphic and intense, like I don't mind cool special effects where there's like pieces of skull missing, yeah, like that I was fine with. And then it's like it got further, yeah, progressively more gruesome and bloody and intense. That's where I was like do we not get a break? Like there's not going to be like just something else, like nice happening no, they were really not giving you anything nice in that one no, they weren't.
Micah Riot:But like the end, when they're skipping through the fields as like unicorns and there's like rainbows, I was like, okay, give us some camp, I'll take some camp, yeah I I really appreciated some of the breaks for surrealist weirdness that happened in it.
Ayden Love:I thought it was really visually beautiful. Also, if I'm like not enjoying a movie, sometimes I'll just sort of zone in on like the color palette or the camera angles or whatever, and that'll usually get me through to the end at least. But yeah, it was a gruesome movie and I did not know that that was about to happen.
Micah Riot:If you do watch lesbian, if you do want lesbian fight club, there's a movie on I'll remember what it's called now and I'll talk to you about it but there's like a teenage movie online that's literally lesbian fight club. It's these two teenage girls in high school decide that they will start having fight club as a way to get closer to their crushes, their female crushes. It's called bottoms bottoms okay yeah, and it's quite literally that teenage lesbian fight club that is so cute.
Micah Riot:There's lots of fighting and people hitting each other and it's like pretty done in like a very juicy way where there's lots of sound effects and wow, bloody noses and stuff well, maybe I'll take a break from the. X-files tonight. I think you would enjoy it. I think you actually would really enjoy it, yeah, so last question I ask my guests is what is something small that's been making you happy lately?
Ayden Love:Um, so it's very spring in North Carolina right now and my yard is full of wild strawberries Like I've never seen so many in my whole life, and this morning my son discovered them, and so we spent a good chunk of this morning just gathering wild strawberries and eating them, and it was it's the most joy I've felt in weeks, I think. Definitely like the spring coming, my child playing in the yard, all that is feeling like big joy.
Micah Riot:Wild strawberry flavor is one of my most favorite tastes in the world.
Ayden Love:Really yeah, yeah.
Micah Riot:It's such a specific thing. It doesn't to me, doesn't taste like strawberry, strawberry, but it's. There's something very special about it.
Ayden Love:It's almost kind of ephemeral you know, yeah, it's not like a hit you in the face. Flavor.
Micah Riot:No, but it's a very specific flavor.
Ayden Love:Totally. Yeah, well, you should come over to my yard, cause they are going off right now.
Micah Riot:Okay, I'm on my way, thank you, thanks for coming on the podcast. It was so kind of you to both to be down and also to be like like last minute. I'm like how about tomorrow? You're like yeah, okay, thank you.