Fantasy Position Series: WR

Welcome to another exciting edition of the Pine Pony Podcast! Join the OG and the Fantasy Uncle as they dive deep into fantasy football wide receivers. In this episode, they break down top wide receivers from the past season, discuss potential breakout candidates for the upcoming season, and debate who might fall off the radar. They also touch on the latest NFL news, including contract extensions  and discuss technology's role in professional sports. Don't miss out on their insights, predictions, and even some sleeper picks for your fantasy football drafts!

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Transcript

Speaker: 0:00

Welcome, welcome, ladies and gentlemen, to another edition of the Pine Pony Podcast. It is me, the OG. Hanging out with us. We've got the fantasy uncle what's happened in person. Howdy.

Speaker 2: 0:15

Glad to be back for another edition of the pie and pony podcast this week. We're going to be hitting up the fantasy wide receivers as part of our positional fantasy series. And I cannot be more excited.

Speaker: 0:31

Yeah. Wide receivers is there's a lot, there's a lot of them. There's, there's too many to possibly cover, but we'll, we'll do our best. To cover the best with all that being said, let's, let's start the show.

0:46

The Pony Pony Podcast.

Speaker: 0:52

So before we hit up the main topic, I wanted to get into the latest and greatest of the news. And starting off, we had, we had a couple of contracts. We had some extensions CMC got his extension. He is again, the highest paid running back in the NFL. He got two years, 19 million. He got 24 million in guarantees. I mean, he does deserve it though. I fantasy wise in real life on the football field was off the football field at, in your hearts and my heart. Yeah. What do you think about that?

Speaker 2: 1:37

Yeah. I think that this is somewhat predictable and also pretty well earned the, he's not like a normal running back. So it does make sense that he is the highest paid running back. Right. Not only is he one of the best just pure runners in the league, but when you're talking about running backs who could run routes, who could catch, catch passes, who can block, I mean, there's nothing that he doesn't do at an elite level. The sort of headache that he creates for defensive coordinators is absolutely worth that kind of money. I think you could make an argument that he's really worth it. More like what a good receiver gets paid, you know? So it's a well worth the investment. He showed no signs of slowing down last season. So I'm sure for them, it still makes sense to sign this extension. And I think it's going to be another year of Elite production.

Speaker: 2:39

Speaking of elite production deserving of an elite contract, Justin Jefferson, 140 million contract, four year extension, 110 million guaranteed.

Speaker 2: 2:53

Whoo.

Speaker: 2:54

Yeah, that's a lot. That's a lot. What, what is interesting about this is what does this mean for CD lamb? Who's looking for a contract. T Higgins who's looking for a contract like You could argue. I would argue T Higgins is on the same level as Justin Jefferson I think T Higgins is that dude? He's just there's so many people Surrounding him on that damn team that he can't shine.

Speaker 2: 3:28

Yeah, I don't think I see Higgins quite as in that elite tier that Justin Jefferson obviously isn't for me, but I get what you're saying. I think unfortunately for Higgins, I think the Bengals have already made up their mind that they're going to hold on to Chase and that they cannot afford Chase, Burrow, and Higgins. And I certainly don't blame Higgins for being like, yo, I'm not, I'm not taking a discount, you know. They, they got him on a franchise tag. I think if they're not an obvious contender by the trade deadline, that they, they do try to trade him so that they could recoup some value back heading into the future. But I don't think that they signed him, unfortunately for him. Cause like you said, he does deserve it. You know, he does deserve it. I think, you know, hopefully someone wants to trade and they, they offer something aggressive enough to where he gets, go ahead and get his extension. Now get on our new team now. I would like to see that for him, but I think the CD lamb thing is interesting because CD lamb had the kind of year last year where his agent can make the argument that, well, look. He needs to be getting more than Justin Jefferson that he needs to set the thing you know, and I think what's interesting is Tyreek Hill is not up for an extension and He's sounding off. He's angry. He wants the Dolphins to renegotiate because he is like I'm the best receiver I don't think that he's going to

Speaker: 5:10

get that. I don't think he's gonna get that. I ain't re signing him.

Speaker 2: 5:14

Yeah, I mean the thing about him is that it makes no sense because he already said that he plans on retiring after Not this season, but after 25 And the thing is like why are you going to sign someone to an extension who's telling you that

Speaker: 5:28

you know what I mean? I'm offloading him for pics

Speaker 2: 5:32

Yeah, I would I would rather trade him than pay him that extension. Hopefully He doesn't pull any bullshit and he just plays on the contract that he fucking signed. But I yeah, you are absolutely correct that this Justin Jefferson contract is clearly resetting the entire wide receiver market and guys that have already signed extensions recently like Waddle and Nico Collins are actually feeling like, damn, I got lowballed.

Speaker: 5:59

Yeah, they got fucked. They got fucked. Speaking of someone who got fucked, depending on how you want to look at it, Lamar Jackson docked 750, 000 for missing 80 percent of the off season training or off season workouts. Man.

Speaker 2: 6:21

You're talking about last year, right?

Speaker: 6:24

No. Like they haven't even,

Speaker 2: 6:26

they haven't even done 80 percent of the OTAs yet, have they?

Speaker: 6:32

Yeah, well, I mean, this is just literally posted like today.

Speaker 2: 6:38

Oh, well, yeah, I don't know anything about that I I'm not sure why he's not Not with the team now. I mean last year obviously he was going through the contract issue Yeah, I mean they were do they've been doing like training camp I wonder what the issue is this time

Speaker: 6:57

why he wouldn't be He probably just don't want to go I don't blame him. I don't blame him. Fuck it. Fuck it. Someone else who I believe has gotten fucked are the Browns. They extended Kevin Stefanski. Why? Why? He has consistently shown you that he cannot coach. This, this football team, I mean, give this team to any fucking coach with a fucking brain cell and they're winning championships. They're winning championships.

Speaker 2: 7:35

I see where you're coming from with the lack of You know, actual success, particularly in the postseason. But I kind of have a hot take here. And I think that the problem is not him. I think that the problem is actually that Deshaun Watson is actually just bad now. And that he's not the same Deshaun Watson anymore.

Speaker: 7:55

Deshaun hasn't played though.

Speaker 2: 7:57

Yeah. But the thing is that when Jacoby Brissett played and when Joe Flacco played, the offense was much better. No, no, but

Speaker: 8:09

you're, but you, all right, Deshaun Watson came back after a year, right? He played how many games? I don't remember to be honest with you. You talking about 2022? The whatever, no, last year. He didn't,

Speaker 2: 8:22

did he play all

Speaker: 8:23

of last year?

Speaker 2: 8:24

He played most of last year. He missed a little bit at the end. I think he missed five games

Speaker: 8:29

at the end. Yeah, he

Speaker 2: 8:30

played

Speaker: 8:30

most of last year. No, because they went on a big run with Joe Flacco. They, they won like

Speaker 2: 8:34

Yeah. Six games or

Speaker: 8:35

something. He played like half the season if that. He played like half the season, right?

Speaker 2: 8:41

No, he played more than half the season. It's, but it's fine though. The, the, the point is that when, when he played, the offense wasn't doing well. When Flaco played the offense was doing well. I mean, the defense was good. The defense has been solid for like three years in a row. I don't think that's his doing. I think that's the defensive coordinator. But the thing is that Stefanski is an offensive guy and I don't think it's actually,

Speaker: 9:08

hold on. Okay. Let me get up in this. The Sean Watson played six games, six games. Oh, I thought played more than six games. So a flacko played, no, the offense isn't going to be humming after the quarterback has missed an entire season after missing an entire season, the year before, no, the office isn't going to be humming. He still was playing pretty well and put up similar fantasy numbers, I mean, as Joe Flacco did, when everyone was like, Oh, this office is doing well. Oh, Joe Flacco is crushing it. He had, he did have Deshaun Watson had seven touchdowns to Joe Flacco's 13. Right. So how many games it was? He played one more game than Joe Flacco. So Joe Flacco did score a lot more touchdowns. Right. Yeah. I mean, they were putting up like 30 points a game with Joe Flacco. Right. Right. But, but just hear me out. Just hear me out. I think this is the year for Watson. If he comes back this year and is a fucking dud, it's him. But we have seen Stefanski time and time and time again, get this team to a point to the playoffs and just, Lay a fucking egg and it's always been, oh, well he had Baker Mayfield and Baker Mayfield couldn't get the team over the hump and this and that. And it's, it's always the quarterback and it's like, okay, well, Denver had fucking Peyton Manning statue back there. With a defense that the Browns defense was considered a better defense than that Broncos defense Which was considered one of the best defense of all time. This Browns defense was considered better than that most of that season

Speaker 2: 11:16

Yeah,

Speaker: 11:17

what so out? Well,

Speaker 2: 11:19

yeah Do not blame the coach To be honest, it was going well. And then for whatever reason that defense completely fell apart, they played the Texans in the playoffs and the Texans just went ham on that defense for whatever reason, but

Speaker: 11:36

had no business going ham on that defense.

Speaker 2: 11:42

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, Stroud and Niko Collins just had a, had a day and I don't know why the defense struggled so much, but I just, I just don't know if that really points the fanski so much. I'm actually surprised to see that you're still In on Watson, it'll be interesting to see how Watson plays this year. So I just think

Speaker: 12:05

he, I mean, I

Speaker 2: 12:06

think that he's kind of running out of excuses. It's

Speaker: 12:09

been a while running out of excuses, but I mean, it's not an excuse when you just haven't been on the field, it's not an excuse.

Speaker 2: 12:17

Well, yeah, but it's a couple of years in a row where. Sure. The sample size is small, but the time, the games, the games that he has played, he just hasn't looked like the same dude. He's looked like a mediocre dude. That's not, you know, and I understand fantasy wise, he's still doing all right because he still runs a decent amount, but the offense is just not running well, whenever he's under there, it seemed like when Brissette was under there. The previous year it was, it was a much better offense. And then when flack goes there, it's a much better offense. It's just like, it, it seems to point more towards him than it does to Fanski. But

Speaker 3: 12:55

I

Speaker 2: 12:55

don't know. We'll see, we'll

Speaker 3: 12:56

see. We shall see. We shall see.

Speaker 4: 13:03

All right. So that's, that's all I have for extensions and contracts and negotiations. Do you have any other ones that you care to, to mention? Nah,

Speaker 5: 13:16

nah, I think it was just the McCaffrey. And the Jefferson were the big ones. I think chase and lamb might be coming down the pipe pretty soon here, which should be interesting to see, but we'll see.

Speaker 4: 13:33

Oh, you know the one, the other one that I wanted to hit real quick is Iuke hasn't been reporting to minicamp and he's looking for a contract. Yeah. He wants to get paid. Yeah. So anyway, well, Moving on, hitting up the fun facts. Fun fact number one. The NFL is telling the Packers and the Eagles that they are not allowed to wear the color green in Brazil due to gangs. The teams will likely be forced to stay in a hotel all week and travel in armored vehicles. Why are these teams playing in Brazil?

Speaker 5: 14:22

Yeah. I mean, that's, it's just absolutely insane. It's absolutely insane. The NFL wants to try so hard to push into other markets that they're making the fan, they're making the players and all of the team personnel, like be put in a situation where we need you on lockdown. Cause it's not safe where you're going to be staying. It's not safe to be out and about. It's not safe. Like who's to say it's going to even be safe for the fans to come see that game. You know what I mean? You're, you're going to have a game between a green and yellow Packers. And a green and black Philadelphia Eagles. And you're going to be a all black and all white. And you don't think the fans will show up wearing merch? Like if it's dangerous for people to be wearing green, then you're creating a, a dangerous situation by doing this at all. I just think this is ridiculous. I'm surprised that the NFL PA is not pushing back against this. And just being like, look, this is insane. We need to cancel this. We are not, we're not going to let our unionized players. Participate with this. Like we're just, I'm surprised they haven't, they haven't tried to fight back. It's just, it's just ridiculous. Okay. It's ridiculous.

Speaker 4: 15:49

Fun fact. Number two, the Birmingham Southern college after 168 years has shut down due to financial instability. The baseball team is going to the D three college world series. Which was backed by a hundred K GoFundMe because the school know they're playing for a school that no longer exists. Wow. That's crazy.

Speaker 5: 16:23

It's kind of cool. Actually. I think that would be bad ass. I think that would be bad ass to actually win it and be like, yep, we want it. You know, because we got, you know, Go fund kickstarters to, you know, fund our team for one last season or whatever. That'd be pretty cool.

Speaker 4: 16:43

Then fun fact, number three the NFL assigned a new kind of player, gave Stevenson a three year rookie deal with the bills. He's a former Olympic gold medalist wrestler headed to the NFL.

Speaker 5: 17:01

Yeah. They're going to, they're going to try and like nose tackle. Right. Right. It, yeah, it didn't say, I think they expect him to be like an interior defensive guy. I don't know if he's

Speaker 4: 17:12

big as fuck. I

Speaker 5: 17:13

will say that a lot of Like college wrestlers who also played football have been, have successfully trans trans what's the word have successfully transformed into quality NFL caliber linemen. And I think most of the stories I've heard have been on the offensive side, but I could see, I could see either or workings, you know, if you're a really, really good. Olympic level wrestler, then you are exceptional with contact. Balance is, which is what you gotta do to weight. Yeah, you got good

Speaker 4: 17:52

arms. Good arms, you gotta,

Speaker 5: 17:54

yeah, you, you need arm strength,

Speaker 4: 17:56

You need arm strength, good arms in order, good legs, solid, solid calves and thighs, all of the above all. Things which in my opinion are needed for tackling, but yeah,

Speaker 5: 18:10

one thing that could be could be

Speaker 4: 18:12

used for blocking could be used for blocking One minute. Let's let's move on. Let's move on. Let's move on man. Let's let's get on to the fantasy football Wide receivers

18:28

Main topic.

Speaker 4: 18:31

there's so many of them. We could get lost up in the sauce And so just like last week, I'm going to roll through the top 10 and then we'll, we'll throw out some names who we think could bust, move out, move up, who could be a sleeper, who could be someone to lift you up into the championship game, maybe. So Would hope if I would be on the right. So from last year, number one is CD land, 268 points. Number two, Tyree kill number three. I'm on Ross St. Brown for Mike Evans, five Puka Nuku, six DJ Moore, seven Debo, Samuel, eight AJ Brown, nine Nico Collins, and 10 Brandon. I, you, that's a pretty solid list. And honestly looking at that list. I had a hard time even really moving anyone outside of that top 10, except for one to two people. And that one person immediately right off the bat is, is number four, Mike Evans. I don't think he'll maybe move out of the top 10, but I think he'll drop out of the top five for sure, as Canalys is no longer there in historically speaking. Gino Smith reverted back to Gino Smith once Canals left Seattle. I expect Baker Mayfield to do the same and thus Mike Evans fantasy output will, will drop a hair. And if, if you're wondering, he was 203 last year, I'm thinking he goes to like 180. Which is just like still in the top 10.

Speaker 5: 20:23

Yeah, he actually was my number one contender for someone who could drop out as well. He's into his thirties now, so it would not be shocking if. He kind of loses a step at some point and he just doesn't have quite the same juice. And then also, like you said, that that offense is going to change. They got a new coaching staff coming in. They've already said that they're going to put Godwin back into a full time slot position, which is almost certainly going to mean more looks for Godwin and probably Les looks for Evan. So yeah, I think he, I think he's the one who's most, most likely to fall out of that.

Speaker 4: 21:09

Yeah. Another couple of guys just kind of at the bottom. Niku Collins, Brandon iu Brandon iu. Just'cause we don't know what's gonna happen with his contract. You know what, what, what's is he, I know he is planning on playing. But what we don't know what's going to happen. He may get traded. So it's to BD, depending on where and when he's playing. If he's playing in San Francisco, then everything will be gravy and he'll be in the top 10. If he gets traded, it all depends on where if he's going to Carolina, it'll probably be outside the top 10, but and then another guy Nico Collins just because. The landscape there is changing wide receivers, Stefan Diggs coming in. So they're going to get him the ball, but Nico could, could carve out, you know, he could not fall far from the top 10, but I could, I could just see him dropping out of the top 10. He had 180 points last year. He could fall to like 160, 170, not a big, not a big time drop, but just some.

Speaker 5: 22:20

That's exactly what I was going to say too. Once again, I agree with you. I was going to say. You know, DJ Moore and Nico Collins, I put into the same bucket, which is pretty elite caliber, wide receivers, at least has that kind of potential, but now is facing much more competition with DJ Moore. He was kind of the only show in town last year. They bring in Keenan Allen, they bring in Romo Dunze, they bring in Gerald Everett, they bring in a pass catching specialist in De'Andre Swift, that running back position. So you got to think he's going to get a smaller piece of that pie. Even if Caleb Williams is All of that, you know, and is the guy that people expect him to be. I still think DJ Morris targets are coming way down because, you know, these guys are not slouches. Keenan Allen's going to get a piece of that pie. Romo Dunes is going to get a piece of that pie. And then same thing with Nico Collins. When you got Stefan Diggs coming to town, obviously he's going to get his, they wouldn't trade for him if they didn't have a plan for him. So I think that. Niko Collins probably is the most likely to lead the team in targets, but unfortunately I think all three of those, meaning him, Tankdale, Stephan Diggs, will be somewhere in the wide receiver two to wide receiver three area. I don't think they're going to be those top 10 guys, even though all three of them have that kind of potential in them. And there wasn't anyone else on that list that I particularly thought was likely to have a down year.

Speaker 4: 23:55

Right.

Speaker 5: 23:55

Right. Was there anyone that you really expect to jump into that top 10 mix? That wasn't there.

Speaker 4: 24:04

Well, funny, you should mention that because that's exactly where I was headed next. I was taking a look at my little list here and You know, right. Well, there's two ways I can look at this. I can look at this right outside the top 10 guys, like Stephon Diggs, Keenan Allen, as you mentioned Jamar Chase, Devante Adams, but see, you know, for me, Devante Adams, arrow kind of slight downward tilt, not all the way down. But kind of slide downward because quarterback situation, DK Metcalf again, as we already said, Gino Smith already reverted back. I expected more revertation back to his normal self. Jamar Chase, he stands out to me here, depending on what T Higgins does. He could be the sole number one guy there. T no T no T Higgins fighting them. As you said, Stefan Diggs, he, he's going to get his, but he's still going to be fighting Nico Collins and take Dell off. So, you know, those guys, I don't really see they could, but that's not what I'm looking at. What I'm more looking at is kind of further down in the 15 to 20 and beyond range at guys like Jaden Reed, who Homer me loves and Dontavious Wicks. He's the Wix isn't on this list anywhere close, but he just a Homer pick. Garrett Wilson, I think could move up a lot in this with Aaron Rodgers. You know, being the being back if he doesn't get hurt, Michael Pittman Jr. with Anthony Richardson. Coming back and being fully healthy, that could be another guy and T Drake, London, Drake, London, anybody on the, you know, the Falcons rosters instantly going to be upgraded at the wide receiver position with Kirk cousins, at least fantasy perspective wise for the regular season.

Speaker 5: 26:13

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 26:14

Yeah. What, what do you think?

Speaker 5: 26:17

Yeah. Well, I really, for guys

Speaker 4: 26:18

that could crack in that, I mean,

Speaker 5: 26:20

Yeah, I was going to bring up the same third year breakout candidates basically is with Drake London and Garrett Wilson. They're getting a pretty obvious upgrade in quarterback. So it just makes sense that these guys who are supposedly uber talented finally get their chance to shine. Another guy, third year breakout, you didn't mention, but I think he's worth bringing up as well. Chris Olave. His quarterback situation doesn't change, but one thing we know about Chris Alave is that he's had a lot of trouble, a lot of trouble actually getting the playbook down and making basically what amounts to mental errors, running the wrong routes, not being on the same page as Derek Carr and even having like concentration drops or whatever. I think he's in the same exact offensive system with the same exact people around him. I think he. If he can get it down and not just be a dumbass and actually get his shit together between the ears He absolutely has the talent and he's already earned the targets. He's made huge plays. I like how he's the first read almost all the time and they let him run down the field routes. I think Even though he's not that far from the top 10 already I think a breakout season could be in line for him as he he's a third year candidate, you know breakout candidate as well the the two obvious guys for me Is the Jamar chase and the Justin Jefferson. I think that their issues were injury related. I think last year they would have been in, if it wasn't for the fact that. You know, in Justin Jefferson's case, he, he missed a whole bunch of the season. And then Jamar Chase's case, not only did he miss, but then of course, he didn't have Burrow. I think he has Burrow back this year. I do not expect Burrow to be injured every single year, but we'll see.

Speaker 4: 28:16

I mean, Jamar Chase didn't even do that bad still though. I mean, he's just outside the top 10. But nah, Justin Jefferson, nah, I am needle.

Speaker 5: 28:27

JJ McCarthy just won't be good enough to get him fantasy production at that level.

Speaker 4: 28:32

I know. I don't think that JJ will be good enough for JJ.

Speaker 5: 28:38

Oh, wow.

Speaker 4: 28:39

You just don't think he's like on that level. I mean, I like McCarthy as a quarterback, but I mean, like, let's be real. If you're looking at him in Michigan, you're like, I hit him, blow you away. Right.

Speaker 5: 28:53

Oh no. I mean, he did well with what they, he did well with what they asked him to do, which I don't want to hold against him. But the thing is that they would run the ball and run the ball and run the ball. Like they did not win because of him. Like they, they were, and that's fine.

Speaker 4: 29:09

Yeah.

Speaker 5: 29:10

They won because of defense and, and running the ball and then he just did enough to not fuck it up for them. I think he's a huge question mark. You know, we already talked about these rookie quarterbacks before, so I won't belabor it, but I think if he is decent, which I don't know, but I think if he is solid, then Justin Jefferson's going to be in the top 10. I think he is an elite wide receiver. But that's kind of how I see, that's kind of how I see the top 10 for next year. I don't know if there's anyone else I really think has a chance to. Those guys, I think there's probably an argument to be made for guys like Jalen Waddle or for George Pickens, you know, in Jalen Waddle's case, he, he wasn't able to actually stay on the field very many games. He kept leaving. early due to injury. But if you actually look at his per route data, they're all in the top five, meaning when he's actually playing on the field, he's getting tons of targets and he's scoring, you know, he's getting production touchdowns and yardage. So I think the Jalen Waddell might actually surprise some people with how good he can be if he stays healthy. And then with George Pickens, It's a, it's a wild card as to how he's actually going to get used. But I think he's more than just a go route. Deep ball guy. I think he actually can run a full route tree and he, he can make waves. I could see him being in the top 10 and kind of surprising some people.

Speaker 4: 30:51

So as we're talking about. Guys who we think are good on the, on the inverse. What about guys that, that maybe were once a good that you think could be bust? I'm looking, that's me looking at you, Justin Jefferson. I'm also looking at Keenan Allen, man. I don't, you said earlier, Keenan Allen's going to get his piece there, but I, they got a lot of mouths to feed all of a sudden they got a new quarterback. I think, and didn't they go after a guy that he's already played with? So there could be a lot of relationship passing there. Yeah. You're talking about Gerald Everett? Yeah.

Speaker 5: 31:39

Yeah. I, Caleb Wade already play with him. I agree with you. I, I think that in these situations where there's just a, a lot of mouse to feed, I'm, I'm not. I'm probably not drafting any of these guys. I think they're all going to be drafted higher than what I'm willing to where I'm willing to take them. So, you know, my comment about Keenan Allen was more Joe more. So just to say that last year he was really good. And he's at he's at an age where I wouldn't be surprised if he did fall off. So there there's a lot more risk in him than I'm willing to take on at the kind of play. Cause he's probably going to be drafted at like the third round of drafts. And that's just too high for me. You know what I mean? I mean, we'll see when we get closer to the season, how, how, ADPs are shaken out. But for me, I agree with you. Basically, most of these older dudes, and unfortunately that includes Devante Adams, he had himself a great year last year. Really did not show signs of being too old or whatever. But the thing is that Antonio Pierce is. Very direct with, we are run first. We're a run first team. And now we want to do two, two tight end sets. So you bring in Bowers who they want to get the ball to. And it's just like, okay, so now he's going to be, they're not going to be passing the ball that much. And he's going to have to split with guys like Bowers, Jacoby Myers. Draws targets here and there. Michael Mayer. It's like, I just think that he's probably going to be like a more like a top 24 guy then. Where he's going to be drafted like at the end of first rounds, beginning of second rounds, because it, because it's Devante Adams, but I just, I, I don't think he's going to get the chance to, to really get that many targets. So, unfortunately, most of these older dudes, definitely Stefan Diggs, are guys that I'm, they're just too risky to spend that early draft capital on.

Speaker 4: 33:48

Well, the thing is, with the wide receivers in the fantasy realm, there, there's a lot of dudes out there. But there's not a lot of like the dudes, like the, the elite talent is very, very small. Like, I mean, I'm looking at elite for me is 200 plus points and that's like CD lamb Tyree kill I'm on St. Brown Puka Nuku is like really close to that. So he's, I'm going to say I'm putting them in there. He's like one 93. Yeah. And Mike Evans is two Oh three, but I don't think Mike Evans will get back to that.

Speaker 5: 34:30

Yeah. For me, I agree with you on Puka. I think that what he showed as a rookie. is so positive that I'm willing to take him in the first round. I'm absolutely, you know, I'd, I'd probably draft CD and the offense. I'd probably draft CD lamb, Tyreek Hill, Aman Ra ahead of him, but he's definitely like a first round guy for me. You know, I think that he would, he would probably go right around where I would take like Bijan and Brees Hall. Like I think of him as that valuable.

Speaker 4: 35:07

And then I got, I got a tier two, like one 90 to one 70, kind of Mike Evans, DJ Moore, AJ Brown, Debo Samuel, those kinds of guys, and then tier three, one 60 to one 40 last year, unfortunately it was Jamar Chase. He was in that realm, but he could, he could easily be. In elite or an above average tier one, tier two guy. So look for him to obviously move up, but I mean, Stefan Diggs for me is a tier three kind of guy consistently Devante Adams, while he did have those elite years, since being with the Raiders, he's kind of a tier three guy, unfortunately. Jaden Reed last year was a tier three guy. I think he could move up to be a tier two kind of person for the Packers. And then tier four, and then kind of everyone else is like Cortlandt Sutland, Tank Dell, unfortunately, as, as much as I relied on him last year. He's going to be below one 40 this year. It's just, there's too many mouths to feed in my opinion. Garrett Wilson could get up into above tier four level, but he's tier four right now. And Jalen Waddle, the same thing, like you were already saying, you already alluded to that. So, and then, I mean, that's, those are about those kind of what I got. And then it's just kind of everybody else is just half ass

Speaker 5: 36:38

for guys that I think are overrated. It really is. The guys that are in, you know these murky situations where there's so much target competition and particularly the older ones, the, these older guys who there's just so many ways in which it can go wrong. And so tho those are the guys, I don't have a problem with most of Most of the top 20, 24 guys outside of those older guys, though, most of them, I think we'll return to, to the, that kind of level this year. Did you want to go ahead and throw out some sort of like sleeper guys, some guys you could probably draft at the end of your drafts that might be, might be better than what people are expecting.

Speaker 4: 37:24

Yeah, well, I think we already mentioned a couple of them. I think George Pickens is a good sleeper candidate. I don't know what everybody's thinking with Russell Wilson as the QB and the way the Steelers have kind of been playing the, they just haven't really been that heavy pass offense. You know, Drake London's not deep sleeper, but he, he, he could be going later than, you know, but that's kind of one of those, we have to wait when we get closer to see you. Where he's going with, with Kirk cousins edition.

Speaker 5: 38:00

Yeah. I've got a few guys that I wanted to bring up and just let me know, just let me know what you think about these guys. I think that a guy who's probably going to go late in drafts is Courtland sign. And I think that he was clearly the best wide receiver for the Broncos last year. And then the second best receiver they got rid of. Now, obviously we don't know how good or how bad Bo Nix is, but I think this is a guy who's got a chance to just be fed a shitload of targets and make his way into that top 24, top 25, just off of sheer volume. And my guess is that he's going to go pretty late in drafts. What do you think?

Speaker 4: 38:47

Yeah. I mean, I relied on him for, for a time period last, last year. And absolutely, he, he kind of, I don't even know that you really have to draft him, to be honest. I feel like he always like flies out of the radar because he's with the Broncos and they've just been terrible. You might be able to just get him

Speaker 5: 39:08

on waivers or something. He

Speaker 4: 39:10

could definitely be like a six, seven, eighth rounder.

Speaker 5: 39:13

Yeah. Yeah. That's what I, that's what I'm thinking too. I think he's going to be late later in drafts. Another guy that's kind of in a similar situation where I think he might just be force fed a bunch of targets is Joshua Palmer. I saw an interesting stat where last year, well, really over the past two years, whenever he's played without. Mike Williams and Keenan Allen, which actually has been like 11 different games, but at any rate, whenever he has, he's gotten at least seven targets in those games and he's averaged, he's averaged like nine. And I do expect that lad McConkey is actually going to be. The biggest target owner. I think he's going to be kind of like the first read guy, but Joshua Palmer runs the really fantasy lucrative routes, which is like the go balls that down the field. Shit. Lad McConkey is going to be asked to do less of that. I think that if they do have to rely on Palmer, he's going to end up having. You know, some spike weeks in there. And I think that's a guy who might just be at the very end of drafts, maybe even not even drafted in some leagues. It kind of depends. And then another guy you already mentioned actually, and you're the one that really turned me onto this guy recently, Dontavian Wicks, I think that he's going to go. So late that he might not even be drafted in some leagues. And I think that he was the most efficient. Wide receiver, even though it was on a smaller sample size. And, you know, the funny thing is, is I know you already understand this, that the bread and butter plays what the Packers want to set up for the most. He is the most efficient specifically with those bread and butter plays. So I could see the coaching staff pretty sure he was the most

Speaker 4: 41:10

targeted on those plays too.

Speaker 5: 41:12

Well, yeah, on a per route basis,

Speaker 4: 41:14

he did. He didn't have

Speaker 5: 41:15

as much playing time as, as the others, but

Speaker 4: 41:18

yeah, yeah, no, that's what I mean. Just when he was on the field and they ran that play, he was targeted the most.

Speaker 5: 41:25

Yeah. And I'd encourage people to take a look into that. Those stats because they're they're pretty interesting not only was he the most efficient But it was like a head and shoulders above Even jayden reed who also impressed as a rookie and a lot of times A lot of times what you see with rookie wide receivers specifically is that when they are very efficient that first year The next year they get a huge bump in usage the coaching staff looks back and they say they they notice that shit And they're like we got to get this guy on the field And I think that it's a, it's a weird situation where I don't know if LaFleur is really going to lean on. One or two of those guys, or if he's just going to keep rotating them in. But I think that this guy's just going to go undrafted in most leagues and he's absolutely worth a dart throw on the end of your bench, just to see if he were to become the dude. I mean, there'd be a ton of fantasy upside with that. One last dude, one last guy I wanted to bring up. Also a guy you're not even going to have to draft Troy Franklin slid to day three, he gets to play with. The same quarterback he had at Oregon. He's going to run all the underneath stuff. Courtland Sutton is going to be running the, the downfield routes. And the thing about Peyton's offense is that he emphasizes, it's, it's kind of a homer pick for sure. But the thing is that he, he emphasizes this underneath stuff with all the running backs and the slot receivers. And that that's what Troy Franklin's going to be doing. The offense is actually better suited for a guy like him than it is Courtland Sutton. Even though he's. Probably not going to be as good as Kort and Sutton. I could see him just getting a ton of underneath work, which is what he was great at at Oregon, which is what Bo Nix was great at at Oregon. So there's a world in which there's upside there and nobody's going to draft him in most redraft leagues. You could just stick them on the end of the bench by week three or four. You'll know if he's worth it holding onto or not. Oh, I can't hear you.

Speaker 4: 43:41

It would help if I wasn't muted. Yeah. So that's what I have for wide receivers. Did you have anybody else that you maybe wanted to bring up?

Speaker 5: 43:51

Nah, I think that's the guys that I find most interesting. Myself, at least at this point in time, I guess, do

Speaker 4: 44:00

you think, which, which are your top rookies? I mean, obviously they're going to go quick, but who do you think is going to perform one, two, three?

Speaker 5: 44:13

I think it's going to be Marvin Harrison Jr. Malik Neighbors, and then Xavier Worthy, I think is what's gonna be. I think that Xavier Worthy And where do you think

Speaker 4: 44:21

they're gonna be drafted?

Speaker 5: 44:25

Ooh, they're gonna be all over the place. I think Marvin Harrison's gonna get a ton of hype. I can see Marvin Harrison being like a second round dude, because people are like, Oh, he's dead. He's the best prospect ever. We can, I would not saw an

Speaker 4: 44:37

article headline that, that got me hype for him.

Speaker 5: 44:42

Yeah. Yeah. He's going to get a tremendous amount of hype. I mean, he's already got like three years of hype behind him, if we're being honest. So, I mean, I think that I, I'm not going to have much of him in redrafts or best balls because people are going to snag him. Earlier than I'm willing to take him.

Speaker 4: 45:01

Well, you got enough picks to get him in dynasty. That's for sure

Speaker 5: 45:04

Oh, yeah dynasty. He's mine Yeah, he's mine at dynasty. I'm not trading that pick away But yeah That would be my forecast I think there's going to be four guys that are going to stand out this year and it's going to be the three I just mentioned plus lad mcconkey and I think those are going to be the four that are Going to have an immediate impact Hopefully you get guys like Jermaine Burton, Brian Thomas, Adonai Mitchell in years to come, but I think for the first season Those are the guys I'm looking at.

Speaker 4: 45:35

Fantastic. Fantastic. All right. Well, I got one remaining topic for you this week. I want to lead you guys with, I had an interesting thought as to why, what is up with the professional sports and not investing in technology, like for years, we've been whining and moaning about the chain gang in NFL and they finally are doing it. For MLB not wanting to use a computer assistance in the strike zone. Like we have systems that can put in place protections to make sure it's fair. I was watching an MLS game. It was Charlotte FC game and the ball went over the goal line. Play continued when we finally got to a break, it finally was reviewed, but for whatever reason, they don't use goal line technology, which they ended up scoring the point to Charlotte, but in, in the Olympics, they use goal line technology, you can see if a. Fraction of that ball goes over the goal. They use it. So why, like, you know, it's like, why is the MLS not using that? Why are we not already? What was the pushback? Is it money? I mean, surely it can't be money in the NFL because they make too much of it. Like, it's just like, Oh, we, we, we don't want to do this review. We don't want you to have to review everything. We don't like. And they always have like an excuse. Oh, it's timing. It's this, if, if everything was reviewable, it would, it would take too long. And it's like, no, it wouldn't. Cause you only get so many reviews. You only get two.

Speaker 5: 47:28

Yeah, I agree. We're not, we're

Speaker 4: 47:29

not going to throw the

Speaker 5: 47:30

flag at every little thing. And not only that, but if you think about leaning on the technology in the first place. You'll have less need for reviews anyway, like we have had, like you and I, you and I watching from home, we have had the, the first down and the goal line lines on our screen for decades. Now we, we've been privy to a better angle or a more precise angle that is then what the, the refs have to deal with and they're making the official calls. It's like. Obviously this should have been done. I'm glad that they're using the chips now versus the chain game, but it's what took so long, you know?

Speaker 4: 48:16

And what's crazy is last year we're watching a game via Toy Story. So there's clearly GPS being involved in that. And then this year in the NHL, fans can watch, can go to their stadium of their team and watch an away game. And on the ice rink. Is the dots of the players in their team colors, moving around the ice rink. It was freaking cool. It was awesome. That actually, you can basically watch it live. So it's just like, I'm so sick of hearing this, these excuses for technology. And I say we should just invest more in tech and sports and because it, you know, If we're talking in betting terms, we want it to be the fairest that it can possibly be. We want to know that we are not getting gypped off. And is that, is that like the, the goal of the NFL is like. We want that level of, we want that little bit of doubt in everyone's mind just to, just to keep it, but it's like, it's like, I don't know, I don't,

Speaker 5: 49:34

I don't know for sure, but this is an idea that, that Smith used to say, friend of the pod Smith and he's like, he's like, yo, we, we, as in the NFL, we should just leave it in because whenever there's these controversies, It gets talked about. It's all on the media the next day. It's all on the media for several days sometimes. And people want to talk about what happened here. Was it right? What the ref did? Was it wrong? Was it right? When, when this happened with the coach responded this way, yada, yada, there's all these different angles that people get to talk about. And it's quite possible that the NFL is like, okay, if we don't have any controversies, then We're gonna be less on people's mind and more importantly less talked about in the media. I don't know That's yeah, right. Exactly. I don't know if that's true And I don't even know if it's true that that that would be why they're dragging their feet But I think whatever it is, whatever is the reason why they have dragged their feet? Hasn't been a good reason like they need to get on. Well, it's long overdue

Speaker 4: 50:46

Nonetheless, I will try to do some research and get back to you populous Anyway, that is the show. That's all we got.

Speaker 6: 50:54

You can always hit us up at the email address, pineponypodcast22 at gmail. Or you can hit us up on threads or Instagrams at pineponypodcasts.

Speaker 4: 51:07

We'll hit you up next week when we come back with you and we're going to talk about running backs. Fancy football, running backs. Hasta la vista, baby. Adios.