E023 - People Centric Leadership with Ben Steel (Pt 2)

In part 2 of our insightful conversation with Ben Steel, Global Head of HR Operations at FTSE100 company Informa, Ben shares his framework for decision-making, highlighting that stagnation is often worse than making the wrong choice and emphasising the importance of embracing mistakes as learning opportunities. 

The conversation then shifts to the significance of cultivating an engaging organizational culture, with Ben sharing his perspective on the importance of communication, trust, integrity, humility, and passion in igniting a dynamic team environment and how having a clear vision and goals, allows room for creativity and innovation while maintaining alignment with the organization's objectives.


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Ben Steel is the Global Head of HR Operations including Payroll at Informa, a FTSE100 company with headquarters in London.  His early days saw him working across finance roles with companies like Ford Motors and Pitney Bowes, before moving into wider scope and more senior roles at Maersk Containerised Shipping. His passion is to create the culture, space, and engagement for people to develop and grow. 

Transcript

Ben Steel: 0:00

Don't be afraid to make a decision. One of the worst things actually is not making a decision. If you don't make a decision, you go nowhere. Everything's become stale and everything overtakes. You Go back into that simple cycle Make the decision Plan, do it. If it goes wrong, learn Correct. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. We should allow all of us to get things wrong to learn. We're human. We have this innate ability to learn.

Ben Steel: 0:32

Doing things by row, repetitively, that's not learning you're listening to the life and leadership podcast, where leaders from across the globe share openly about the trials, triumphs and lessons learned along the leadership journey. Whether you're a seasoned, new or aspiring leader, get ready to receive powerful insights and practical takeaways to help you grow in your leadership. And now here is your host, Mary Eniolu.

Mary Eniolu: 1:10

So I mean, culture is extremely important, you know, for any organization. How do you go about creating an engaging culture? If there was a leader sat here, you know they're just building their team and and they said Ben, you know I'm hearing what you're saying and Informa seems like where I should be working if I didn't have my own business. How did you create that? What would you say to them?

Ben Steel: 1:30

Well, first thing in that one, erin, it's a really interesting question to ask. Is that actually, if I was to have joined an organisation where my cultural fit didn't work, I wouldn't have stayed with an organisation? I think sometimes you have to assess where you can be successful or not. Uh, it is good that I'm now working in an organization where there is a great cultural fit for it. Now, how do you develop that one?

Ben Steel: 1:59

So, have I? Do I look and think I've developed anything unique? No, I don't think I do. Do I do I look and think I've developed anything unique? No, I don't think I do. Do I? Do I look and think, god, you've done a great job there? No, I don't think I have. Maybe that's just humility coming out to it. Do I believe in a real diverse mix of colleagues? Absolutely, and, like I said, that is from all manners of diversity in there, and the reason for that is actually we all bring something to the conversation and it's that in conversation, I think, which is really important. So it's that ability We've spoken about communication already it's that ability to communicate at all levels which helps create a culture.

Mary Eniolu: 2:43

Right.

Ben Steel: 2:43

As a leader leader I could have made hierarchical term again could have made it a very transactional based environment where we measure people on their performance of how many transactions they've done per day and that that's technical term that sucks that isn't what we're trying to achieve.

Ben Steel: 3:03

What you want to do is to actually give people to to be free in how they operate and then the results follow. Again, let's go back into do I set, do I top down, set objectives? No, I don't. Do we have a conversation about our team around what we need to achieve as an organization and then people come with their objectives for a good. Maybe that care and candor, challenging conversation about will it that get us to our goal? Yes, will I support people in terms of learning and their approach? Yes, will we have sometimes quite challenging and emotional conversations around things? Definitely, because then again that comes in the passion. So there isn't one strategy. I'd say that you would build that engaging culture, but there are certain key themes in there which comes again trust, integrity, humility, passion. There's that passion for others.

Mary Eniolu: 4:09

It will drive that, yes, and communication is a key piece, obviously, and obviously we know communication is both ways. You know passing on information and listening to the others, um, but I also think vision is quite important. I think I think you alluded to just now when you said you know setting the target and then allowing people the freedom in terms of how they actually deliver that objective. I really think it's so important for a leader to clarify the vision, clarify the goal, what we're trying to achieve, and make sure people get that, but give flexibility and allow people to be creative in how we go about trying to achieve that.

Mary Eniolu: 4:48

I think often when the vision is not clear is where perhaps people feel the need to be very directional and start to micromanage, because you know where you want to go, and when you see that people are not acting in a way that you feel is going to get them there, you say, oh no, do it this way or do it or do that or do that. But if you're able to communicate the end goal, where we're going, and then trust again, like you say, people to come up with ideas and you know innovation of how we're going to achieve that, then people feel like I have, I've got skin in the game. I've got I've got a part to play here. I think will help you get their buy-in when they feel like I've got a role to play, I've got something to contribute. I'm part of this. I'm not just a robot doing as I'm told.

Ben Steel: 5:36

Yeah, a really insightful way of putting it in that one, mary. In that a direction, something to head to, is really important. And going back into that communication part, just setting that point in the future for people to get to, that's not a vision, that's not a strategy, that's just a point in time that people will either go yeah or no. You need to actually give people the chance to explore what that looks like. Yeah, so in the conversations I have with the teams that I work with, have the pleasure of working with, we do have conversations about what we can achieve to the future. So it's not that the again hierarchical term, the leader sets. We know what we need to get, we know where we need to get to. The journey to get there is that really important part.

Ben Steel: 6:30

So, again, let's go back into that point in time in the future. If you stick that stake in the ground and then don't discuss it, you've created a void. So let's say that you started using words like scalable, efficient, and then you don't explain what they mean. Cynical minds might go. We're looking to automate, we're looking to leverage AI. Is my role secure for the future? Oh my God, I mean AI being a hot topic in that one, and therefore negativity creeps in. Actually, when you sit down and discuss that journey to it, people will start contributing ideas yeah they'll start contributing their views, their thoughts where the problems are.

Ben Steel: 7:13

Yeah, so again, creating that vision structure, I think, is really important, and one of the key things in that really is how you communicate with the team, how they communicate back to you to support it.

Mary Eniolu: 7:27

Well, thank you, I mean okay, so this is the Life and Leadership Podcast and we wanted it to be real because leaders are real people.

Ben Steel: 7:37

It's like a hard question coming in.

Mary Eniolu: 7:42

It's not a hard question. If you're enjoying this conversation, don't forget to hit the subscribe button. That will help us bring more inspiring conversations to you and reach more people. And if you know of a leader that should be featured on the life and leadership podcast, please reach out to us with their details. We would love to hear from you, as a leader what would you say has been your biggest leadership challenge, or the biggest, the most difficult thing you've encountered that you had to overcome?

Ben Steel: 8:12

There was a team I was working with Again, I won't go into specifics of company or groups and essentially we were going to make a large number of people redundant and we were doing it for really good reasons for the future of the organisation. Now, I really don't like the thought of people losing their roles. I've already spoken about mobility. I like to try and make sure people can secure futures. In this instance, unfortunately, people were going to lose roles. Now, that was personally challenging for me. Families were involved, people had mortgages to pay.

Ben Steel: 8:58

It's a big decision to make, isn't it really that you are going to affect in a change that is going to have real personal consequences? Now, in reality, I could have shied away from making that decision. I could have postponed it, I could have found an excuse not to do it. That wouldn't have been in the interests of anybody. Actually, over a period of time, it would have become very clear that the structure we had would have failed, at which point there had been performance complications and therefore other implications for people within that mix.

Ben Steel: 9:33

So to actually take the action was the right thing and the big part of it that and this is me trying to not cross a boundary of um saying ben, you did a great job again, think of that humility aspect. I would say as a team, we did a very good job of making sure that the reasons why and the actions to support were communicated. So, yeah, so very challenging personal kind of make decision making process, knowing that there was going to be real human impact and then supporting people through strong communication. Now what I can say I think that the journey was right is that actually people impacted by this ended up on the majority into destination-based roles, so that was really good we also saw that actually the the engagement scores that we were receiving, so we made sure we monitored that journey through from pre to post engagement actually grew over the period.

Mary Eniolu: 10:37

Wow From the team members that remained.

Ben Steel: 10:42

Team members who left the organisation, so a mix people who remained and people who left Right. So we could see that actually the reason why we did it was strong and people understood why it was taking place. Again, it's that understanding, isn't it you communicate. It's not a message, it's actually a conversation People need to understand. You don't leave voids in that, because that's a negative space for people. You have caring and also candid conversations, sometimes challenging conversations, with people in that mix and if you can do that.

Ben Steel: 11:16

Actually, what can be the really tough decision making process can still drive momentum change in the right way. Yeah, so again, take that back to your original question. That was personally challenging and a real learning opportunity for me.

Mary Eniolu: 11:32

That's awesome, you know, because, like you say, yes, sometimes things happen. I mean just using my husband for, as an example, where he used to work, he was working with an oil and gas company. He was taken on board. He's an IT consultant. He was taken on board for a particular project in anticipation of this particular project and eventually, when that project happened, things went wrong and they could not continue that project. So it was understandable that he was going to be let off.

Mary Eniolu: 12:03

But, like you say, it's not just about you having a good reason for doing it, it's how it's communicated as well and how it's not just about it you having a good reason for doing it is how it's communicated as well and how it's managed.

Mary Eniolu: 12:13

So, yes, I know it should be done, but the way it's been done has made me left me feeling, um, really bad about myself and feeling like I've done something wrong when I really haven't done anything wrong. So there's's a difference, isn't it? And I think sometimes it might just be a lack of either a lack of care or just a lack of know-how. It's easier to pass the blame on, to say we're not keeping you because you don't meet this standard or you haven't really done what you're supposed to do, so that's why we're letting you go. I don't think it always has to be like that. It's okay to say we, we really can't keep you because of this, that or the other, while still making the person feel like, well, okay, it's like you're giving me poison to drink and I'm saying, oh, thank you so much that was really lovely absolutely right.

Ben Steel: 13:06

Yeah, and if you do it with integrity, so people will know that what you are saying is trusted ingredient in there.

Mary Eniolu: 13:16

Yeah, it goes back to that people-centric leadership, putting people at the heart of what you do really most definitely. So what are the values for Informa? What are your core values?

Ben Steel: 13:31

So I mean, we have some founding principles in there, like freedom to succeed. Yeah, because we want people to succeed. We are a people-centric organization. There is the understanding that it's our knowledge, our skill set, our variability that makes our organisation Actually. We celebrate entrepreneurship in all its forms, which is, again, you link that to freedom to succeed. Now we have started in more recent years talking about things like the power of us. Yeah, so quite collective based thinking, which I think is again a really strong trait in the organization, cause it is the power of us, it's that community.

Ben Steel: 14:17

Yeah, so I mean that's how I'd probably talk about Informa to others.

Mary Eniolu: 14:25

Okay, and then how about your personal values? What are your top three?

Ben Steel: 14:30

again, I would say Again, pinning me down to three. I could go on. Um, I'm going to put in and I've probably said these already, just maybe not in one sentence passion passion for others.

Ben Steel: 14:42

Yeah, um, I'm, yeah, I am exceedingly passionate about others success and their environment and care of others. Humility again, I don't think you're probably surprised by the, by that one and then the last one I'm going through now, and I don't think you'll be surprised either. Integrity I think they're okay top three. Quality and, again, quite reflective uh, something I haven't said before and I don't often say is I'm quite a self-reflective and self-challenging person. Maybe that links into the humility side.

Mary Eniolu: 15:13

I think it does.

Ben Steel: 15:14

I think it does. I will look back and think through how something went, how my actions might not have been where I wanted them to be, and I will actually solicit feedback from others as well. I'll use an example of that one, and this might be quite a real, simple example. So obviously, in my role, I will interview people and as part of an interview process, I always want the candidate to be able to walk away with as much information and as much knowledge to make an informed decision about whether they want to join or not. But something I'll always do is whenever I'm interviewing with someone I haven't interviewed from, from wherever they are in the organization, I'll always ask how was that? How was the approach to it? Do you think we gave a candidate opportunity? Because I'm wanting to hone my skills, I want to learn more and make sure I've done it right, and I don't interview all the time. It's a muscle that sometimes gets dusted off out the cupboard, and is it still match fit?

Mary Eniolu: 16:18

I don't know so yeah, so there's a lot of self-reflection that takes place yeah, no, that's good. Um, I'm going to ask you. I mean, making decisions is a big part of a leader's job, so do you have a framework you use when you're making a decision, especially big decisions? Is there any thought process you go through?

Ben Steel: 16:38

Yeah, so let's split that out. Sometimes decisions have to be made in a unilateral way. It could be because there's confusion between others and no one can make a decision as a community so somebody has to make a decision and that generally defaults upwards.

Ben Steel: 16:59

Um, if I was to put some criteria down of how I'll do it, there'll be a couple of key fundamentals in there and they'll you kind of go down the system, tick them off. People now that could be people impact, as in as in. Does it have a direct impact onto people? Or it could be a question of what people are required to be able to make this the best it can be. What skill sets do we need? What challenges might we be facing in there?

Ben Steel: 17:28

And, of course, the next one out of this is actually the decision has to create the result, the desired result. So there's a bit of a question mark against it about do we know what that future result needs to look like now, which, if you're making a unilateral decision, can be really challenging. Because actually, do you really know? If you're pointing at yourself and looking at yourself, you're hard in the mirror. Do you really know that that decision is going to get the result you need it to? It drives me to want to consult, so I would have 99 of my time as a consultative decision making process. You look at where you want to get to. You make a decision of how to get to that place and then you road test it Right. There's definitely refinement in that. So there's no. That can plan, do study act. You can plan for as much as you like until you actually get to do for, do part of it.

Ben Steel: 18:27

You don't know if it's going to work.

Mary Eniolu: 18:29

Yeah.

Ben Steel: 18:30

Okay, then you study that and then you act to create, to correct it, and I think that cycle really works into especially self-decision making.

Mary Eniolu: 18:40

Yeah, no, I like that. I, I like that a lot. So, again, clarity of vision, clarity of where we're going, is important, but obviously, again, people, people come in. How it impacts people, and who do you need to get involved? You need to include in the decision making process. Uh, who do you need to to to include, to make it work if you do decide to go down one way or the other, but also being open to know that, um, once you've made that decision, it doesn't have to be a closed door. You can come back and review once you start to take action. So leaving that room or space for review and change is really, really important. And obviously you talked about collaboration as well. So I think that's safe. I really think that's a safe way of making decisions.

Ben Steel: 19:29

Maybe I need to be more risky in my life. I don't have a good accountant than for me coming out risk averse.

Mary Eniolu: 19:36

Yeah, and I think that's a good way of making decisions. I'm going to ask you just two more questions, ben, because we're out of time, so I'm going to ask you what's the best advice you've ever gotten in your life? What do you say?

Ben Steel: 19:51

What's the best advice you've ever gotten in your life, would you say oh, great one. Best advice Don't be afraid. Actually, now this bit of advice and I've used this bit of advice, of course, many different things Now, do not be afraid. There's a point in time as you kind of move through your career where ultimately you're probably going to be asked to stand up in front of a room full of people, could be in a, in an international webinar, it could be very local town hall, etc. And not everybody is comfortable with that. Not everybody wants to be the person who's up front talking.

Ben Steel: 20:29

I'm probably actually quite an introvert. So back in my early days, I'm standing up in front of a room of people probably wasn't my go-to actually, and someone just simply said don't be afraid, people don't know what you're going to speak about. So as long as you're clear in what you speak about, generally people want you to succeed. Don't be afraid, just go and speak simple as and that almost took away that point of am I going to be good enough at this? Do I have to know everything I'm going to talk about word for word? Am I got to regurgitate a script? No, you don't need to do any of that. And if you take that methodology in there, well, actually in decision making, you're not always going to get it right.

Ben Steel: 21:19

Don't be afraid to make a decision one of the worst things actually and I'm not looping this back into how I make decisions is not making a decision. If you don't make a decision, you go nowhere. Yeah, everything's become stale and everything overtakes. You make a decision, go back into that simple cycle, make the decision plan, do it. If it goes wrong, learn correct, don't be afraid to make mistakes. And that's that's part of it. Takes me back into part of that team culture and community. We should allow all of us to get things wrong to learn. We, yeah, we're human. We have this innate ability to learn. Doing things by rope repetitively that's not learning. Yeah, so sorry, that's probably one of the best bits of advice I ever had was no, that is great advice.

Mary Eniolu: 22:10

Great advice, I mean I do public speaking and I do public speaking training and that's what I say to those who come on my workshop. You know people want you to succeed. They're not looking at you thinking, oh, I wish they're going to miss their words. Well, I hope they're going to forget. You know, you're the expert. There's a reason you're standing in front of the room at that particular point in time. So you're absolutely, absolutely right. And and creating a growth environment is so, so, so important, and you cannot have a growth environment without creating room for people to fail. I say to my clients if you're failing, it's actually a good thing because it means you're learning, it means you're doing something you don't know how to do, so it's it's really a good thing. Yeah, wonderful, really enjoyed this conversation with you, ben. I'm going to ask you one final question. If you could give any piece of advice to your younger self when you stepped into your first leadership role, looking back now, what would that piece of advice be?

Ben Steel: 23:09

you've saved a good question for last there, haven't you, mary? Thank you for for that one. Well, I've just said don't be afraid, I definitely would not be. I would be more confident and less imposter syndrome. I think, actually, one of the joys of doing and interacting with people is, I would say, be free to work with others. Yeah, responsibility is not all on your shoulders. Wow. So, as a, as an early leader, benefit from the support you have around you. Don't be fearful of being an imposter. You're not going to know it. You need to learn how to do it. You will make mistakes.

Mary Eniolu: 23:58

I really, really, really love that To free yourself to work with people. I think leaders put the pressure on themselves unnecessarily to feel like I need to know all the answers. I always say when I, when I was in law school, one of the first things they taught us was as a solicitor, you're not expected to know all the answers, you're just expected to know where to get all the answers. When they were teaching us legal research so it's the same for a leader.

Mary Eniolu: 24:26

We don't. We don't have all the answers. We're not expected to have all the answers. So just free yourself of that burden and work with the people around you and tap into the their knowledge and their skills, and that's how you become a great leader. John maxwell says most of my best ideas were not mine.

Mary Eniolu: 24:45

Absolutely true, yeah yeah, no, wonderful, wonderful, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation. I've really really enjoyed it and you've really shared some insights that, for the first time, I really would sponsor going and listening to more of Mary's great conversations and work. Oh, I really appreciate that. Thank you. The Life and Leadership Podcast is brought to you by Can Do Academy, where we help organizations develop high performing teams and extraordinary leaders. To find out more about our work, visit candoacademynet. See you next time.

Ben Steel: 25:37

Thank you for listening to the Life and Leadership podcast. If you enjoyed the conversation, hit the subscribe button. That will help us reach more people and inspire more leaders. See you on the next episode.