Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
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Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs
Broken Hearts and Cannabis: The Painful Evolution of a Plant Activist
The deeply personal journey of cannabis activism unfolds in this raw, emotional account of what happens when ordinary people stand up against an unjust system. Joe Grumbine takes us through the aftermath of his first cannabis arrest, when he discovered that the advocacy organizations he'd supported weren't equipped to help defendants navigate the legal system.
From this realization emerged The Human Solution - a grassroots support network founded on a simple yet powerful premise: showing up matters. With just a few hundred dollars and a handful of dedicated volunteers, they created the now-iconic green ribbon with a red cross symbol, worn by supporters in courtrooms across America as a silent statement of solidarity with cannabis defendants.
The contrast between courtroom appearances alone versus walking in with supporters proved transformative. Judges, prosecutors, and court staff could no longer view defendants as faceless criminals but as community members with visible support networks. This strategy helped Joe win his first case, only to face an even more aggressive raid and six-year legal nightmare shortly after.
What makes this story particularly compelling is its unflinching honesty about the darker side of activism. While building a nationwide network of chapters and supporting countless defendants, Joe encountered both extraordinary loyalty and devastating betrayal. Some supporters emptied retirement accounts to fund his legal defense while others spread false accusations after receiving help themselves.
This episode illuminates the human complexities of social movements - how principles may inspire action, but relationships determine outcomes. Despite the heartbreak, those rare, unwavering allies made all the difference in ultimately securing victory against seemingly impossible odds.
For anyone who cares about justice reform, medical freedom, or grassroots organizing, this story offers a rare glimpse into both the public victories and private struggles behind meaningful social change. What would you risk to defend your principles? And who would stand beside you when everything is on the line?
Intro for podcast
https://www.wcsblog.com/podcast-episodes
Hello and welcome back to the Healthy Living Podcast. I'm your host, joe Grumbine, and today we're gonna continue the series that we called the Love Affair of the Broken Heart, and this is part three, probably, of four parts. This is where things start to get interesting. So if you're interested in hearing the story of my lifetime love affair and ultimately broken heart over the cannabis plant, I encourage you to go back to part one and hear it from the beginning. But meanwhile, where we left off, I had just gotten arrested for the first time and began my journey as a cannabis activist. So I'm locked up and I get out.
Speaker 1:I got bailed out and I didn't have a lawyer and this is all new to me. You know, I don't, I have no experience with law enforcement. I don't even get traffic tickets, because I was always a hilltop grower and always careful when I drove. I always drove with my eyes looking to the back of my rearview mirror and I just was always super careful and never got never got pulled over. But uh, this one time, just in some dark spot, got pulled over cause there was paint on my license plate, or so they said. Anyways, I can remember going now, what I'd have to I don't know anything about this and I've always said halfway in joking that the thing I do best is the thing I've never done before. I have always been an explorer and kind of a pioneer, and not that that's any big deal, it's just. I've never been afraid to try things and fail. But in this case I didn't have a choice. So I've got. You know, I'm bonded out. I've never been on bail before learning what that means. And now I've got to find an attorney and I got some numbers.
Speaker 1:Now, remember, when I had the dispensary, I was approached by, you know, this group, asa, and signed up as advocates. So the first thing I did is I called them and they didn't have anything to offer. And then I called normal and they didn't have anything to offer and I said wait a minute, I thought I was doing everything right. Aren't you guys here to help me? And then I come to find out. Well, we have meetings and you know you can come to the meeting. Okay, so I also learned about, you know, lanny Suerdlo's group out in Riverside, and everybody was big in the activism there. But again there was a case that they were supporting. So finally I okay, well, let me go see this meeting and meet these people that I don't know, and I go up there and I start telling my story about what happened and everybody's like, well, I thought you were legal, I thought you were doing everything right, and I says, yeah, me too. But you know, that doesn't seem to matter.
Speaker 1:And there was this guy, ronnie Knowles, who had a federal case. Now that was a different story because we knew that, you know, federally everything was illegal. It still is to this day. But this was a state case I had. So it didn't. Nobody could understand how I could have a state case. Well, how much did you have? Everybody always said, well, it was. Why would it matter, you know?
Speaker 1:And so I began telling my story and I've never had to be a public speaker and I, frankly, sucked at it for a long time, but I didn't care. I needed to tell my story, I needed to find a lawyer, I needed to figure out what the hell in a pretty quick way, and so what I discovered was, everywhere that I would speak, I would get some people that would listen. And you know, of course I'm having to break into a seasoned community and the cannabis world has always been very, you know, cliquish or community based. So you know they don't know you. Everybody is going to be suspect and it's going to take a minute to break through. But I was in a vulnerable spot and I had taken risks that they had all taken. And so and I was genuine, so it was fairly easy for me to get my foot in the door and, you know, I turned on whatever charm I had, did what I could.
Speaker 1:Then I went to the. I turned on whatever charm I had, did what I could. Then I went to the excuse me, asa and normal meeting in Orange County and again I was received, I was given an audience, I was able to speak and ended up connecting with this attorney. Ended up connecting with this attorney and first attorney I called was one out of the book and he was like $10,000 will take you, you know, pre-trial and if you have to go to trial it'd be more than that. And I was like, wow, I don't have any money, what am I going to do? And then this other attorney, chris Glue, he was, I think he was speaking at that first meeting and he heard my story and he said you know, I'll take on your case and he didn't give me. I don't remember it was. It was a a relatively small amount that he charged me and he heard my story and I was legit.
Speaker 1:You know, we had all the patient records. We did everything right according to California law and our California law was actually a good law and it was vaguely written and it was written in such a way that it's supposed to be interpreted in the benefit of the defendant. But that's not how it works here in California. California is a fucked up state and it is really. The government is for the government and the government tries to fleece everybody small businesses, individuals. We're taxed into oblivion, we're regulated into oblivion and you know it's all about control and fleecing us, keeping us quiet and broke and scared, and it's a brutal place. But I live in a remote little spot and I can avoid most of it, most of the time, and I love where I live, so I'll stay here. But my goodness, it's a rough place to have to do business and anything like that in law enforcement, my God.
Speaker 1:Anyways, I meet with this lawyer and I say, well, what do I do? He says, well, I need you to get your case together, you need to get witnesses together and you need to get some community support, people willing to write letters, maybe come to court for you and you know we'll go at this and then when they turn over discovery, we'll see what they have against you and we'll build the case. And I didn't know anything about anything. So I said, well, okay, I'm going to begin to become an expert. And so I learned. I learned about the law. I learned about what I had to support the law. I learned about, you know, getting witnesses. I learned about a lot of things and over time I continued speaking at these meetings and gathering support and eventually I had gathered enough people together that we decided that these other groups weren't doing what I needed them to do.
Speaker 1:They weren't there to support people in court. They were there to I don't know advocate for their own shit. Norm't there to support people in court. They were there to I don't know advocate for their own shit. Normal's there to reform laws and, in my opinion, keep themselves alive. Asa was supposed to be there for patients and they did some rallies and stuff for some people and they did ultimately help us out some, but not really.
Speaker 1:Um, it was always the work we did. We got them to be included. Actually, they started doing what we were doing more and we ended up gathering the people together that had supporting people together in common and we ended up having this meeting together in common. And we ended up having this meeting, this little fundraiser, to raise money for Ronnie Knowles and my case. And I remember we had this little fundraiser and we did our best and threw it together pretty quickly and we raised a couple hundred bucks. That's what I should have realized, that I don't know how to raise any money and it was kind of a crazy deal because we all got together afterward and we had this meeting. We said, well, what are we going to do with the money we raised? I don't know, it was four or five hundred bucks, something like that. It was a very small amount, not enough to support either of our cases.
Speaker 1:And we had this meeting. I had this big patio between my house and you know the little house that we had and we had this big long table and I don't know I think we had 30 people and we sat there for the whole day and we discussed and we shared our thoughts and ideas and by this time, you know, I had gathered a pretty decent group of people together and the whole idea was that we're going to support each other. We're all at risk of having the same problem. And ultimately, out of that long meeting I think eight or ten hours we sat at that table and discussed. We ended up deciding that, rather than put this money towards a couple of bucks each for our lawyers, let's create an organization that is there to support each other. And out of that we came up with a bunch of names and I realized at this point that I was going to be thrust into a leadership role and I did not want to force myself on these people and but I just knew nobody was guiding this thing the way I needed it to be guided. And so ultimately, I didn't want to be the president and I wouldn't be the president and I said you know, I'll be the vice president or whatever.
Speaker 1:We ended up creating this group. We ended up filing papers to incorporate it. We submitted a bunch of names. Now, my name that I had submitted was the human solution, because I just thought that was an awesome name and but I didn't want to force it in there and I didn't even pitch it that much. But I didn't want to force it in there and I didn't even pitch it that much, and so I forget the name that we had originally accepted. But we submitted this name and it got rejected. And then I took the next name and submitted it. It got rejected. And so, finally, we submitted three names and the state randomly selected out of the three names the human solution. I was like, all right, well, I guess that's it, there's no getting away from it.
Speaker 1:And our initial incarnation, who was the president, backed out pretty quickly. And next thing, you know, I find myself being president. I'm like, ok, if I got to do this, I'll do it. And so, you know, I find myself being president. I'm like, okay, if I got to do this, I'll do it. And so, you know, I took the bull by the horns. I'm the one who needed the help, and I can remember when we originally had this first fundraiser, we all took these green armbands and we wore them as a symbol of solidarity. And when I had to go to my first court appearance, I realized that we can't walk into a courtroom with armbands and we said, well, we need to come up with something that we can use as a symbol of solidarity without it being aggressive, without it being something that'll be pushed out. And we ended up coming up with this really cool idea. It was at the time when the trade towers had this was like 2005, 2000. No, this is 2009. When it happened, it was 2009.
Speaker 1:But still, the ribbons were a big deal the yellow ribbons and the pink ribbons. Everybody was wearing ribbons for things for cancer, for support our troops, for support everything. So we thought, well, a ribbon would be a good symbol because it's it's a universal symbol. People understand it. And then, but then every color was taken. So we thought, well, green's a good symbol because it's you know to me, it's you know to me, it's a symbol of healing. And then we came up with this red cross. We said, well, you know what are we doing here? And we're acting like first responders and, and I says, and plus, we're supporting our rights to medicate ourselves as we see fit. And so we thought, well, we're going to take a green ribbon and put a red cross on it. And so we sat down and we were meeting pretty regularly generally at my place, but there were other people that we would sometimes go to, and so we bought some art supplies and we got our scissors and our glue guns and one of our members had this cricket machine and it worked once, I think and they made a bunch of these little foam crosses and that's where we started out and we were hand-cutting these ribbons and the first ones were very awkward and clumsy, but we put them together and we stuck little stick pins on them.
Speaker 1:And I remember my first court appearance and it was called a preliminary hearing. I mean, at my arraignment there was nothing, but then there was a preliminary hearing where they determine if the case has merit to go forward. And I remember walking into the court for the first time and I was just, you know, terrified and I was all alone, just me and the attorney, and and I pled not guilty and whatnot, and and, um, the second time we had I don't know, maybe a dozen people with us and we went into court. We were all there and we had our ribbons on and we had a woman in a wheelchair who was part of Asa and and her husband, and we had a woman in a wheelchair who was part of Asa and her husband and we had a. You know just these people that were willing to take time off of their day and go to court with us, and it was an amazing shift. I felt the difference in the courtroom when we were there and I said, whoa, there's something here. This being in the courtroom together matters. And, frankly, that turned into the key pillar of what the human solution became and ultimately, these ribbons got refined and turned into a really beautiful piece of work and over many years, thousands of ribbons were made and and distributed and the human solution turned into an amazing group.
Speaker 1:It went through a lot of changes and, and you know, what I learned about advocates and activists was that it's a lot of really broken people and a lot of difficult problems people with mental problems, people with physical problems, people just with every kind of problem but for whatever reason, they were moved to help and they were. None of them ever had money. We never raised any money, but we always could pull people together and I had the ability to rally people together for a cause and, you know, create enough incentive and enough magic that people would want to come and ultimately, you know, this case drug on and went through all these different prosecutors and and appearance after appearance, and and we I realized that it was difficult. You couldn't ask everybody to show up every time, because it's a lot of work to take your day off and go to court and be there for somebody else and it's a screwed up place to be and it's just a terrible spot. And so, you know, over time we learned about, you know, managing resources and all of this. But meanwhile, you know I'm back to the dispensary, still working and I'm going through this and every day, of course, worried that you know the feds are going to come raid us. I've still got this case and eventually, after I think it was about nine months it's been a while now so the very specifics of this sometimes are getting a little fuzzy, but that's not too bad. They end up dropping the case and it was sort of unexpectedly.
Speaker 1:We've gone through, I think, three prosecutors and it was sort of unexpectedly. We had gone through, I think, three prosecutors and, for whatever reason, the fourth prosecutor actually wanted to look at our evidence and I can remember the attorney saying you got all those records? I go, I sure do. And he says, well, we're going to take them to the court. So I literally we had I don't remember how many boxes, but it was probably. There was thousands of records we had from the patients that we served, the, the clients, and it validated everything we did.
Speaker 1:And I literally I had a truck and I showed up with a dolly and I don't know it was at least eight or ten cases of records. And I said I showed up at the da's office and I says I've got this discovery to turn over to you guys. Where do you want it? And I had a dolly with three or four cases of records and I remember them looking at you like, whoa well, put it over here. I said so, there's more. And so I went back and forth, I brought it in there and we had this pre-trial hearing and this was the last hearing before the judge was going to push this thing to trial. And I can remember going in there and it was just me and my attorney into his chambers and I didn't know what was going on. And I remember they came out and the judge dismissed the case with prejudice and I was like what the heck? And I walked out of there and we celebrated Eventually I even got my evidence back, all the pot that they seized, all this stuff. I got it back in evidence bags and it was just amazing, a giant victory.
Speaker 1:And through this time, you know, now we have this group, the Human Solution, and we had the hub at the dispensary and we had a lot of people that were supporting. But the part that I didn't really pay attention to and I was always the optimist, I was always the one that would see the good in everybody and make excuses and what I didn't pay attention to and maybe I should have was the amount of people that walked away, the amount of people that were afraid, the amount of people that would not come to court, the amount of people that said they would support me but didn't. I didn't want to see that but nonetheless, enough people were there and enough people did support and we were able to get this victory. And I realized this thing that we were doing worked Well, we celebrated and within I believe it was less than a month, I was raided and that was where the real nightmare began. So I can remember showing up at the dispensary and getting set up and then all of a sudden looking up in the cameras and seeing all these cars descending on us and boom, they come in Next thing. I know I'm staring down the barrel of a weapon and I don't know if you've ever stared down the barrel of a weapon before that's being pointed at you by law enforcement with the finger on the trigger, but you can actually see the tip of the bullet inside the weapon. And that was quite an experience and scared the shit out of me. Get locked up again.
Speaker 1:And when I got out I realized my wife had been raided, my whole property, my daughter had guns stuck in her head. They had simultaneously descended on multiple places and took everybody. They thought we were El Chapo. They thought we were this big old thing. But the thing they didn't find. They didn't find any weapons. They didn't find any drugs. They didn't find any weapons. They didn't find any drugs. They didn't find any money. I mean, relatively speaking, they didn't have shit. They had a bunch of plants, uh, at our grows, but they're really there. There was no evidence of this gigantic um thing, but they took everything and they spent almost a year building a case and when, when they finally filed their charges and took me into custody, they hit me with this $125,000 bail and the real nightmare began.
Speaker 1:Well, meanwhile, the human solution has grown and I realized that it was going to be important to start helping more people, that it was going to be important to start helping more people and you know, every time I went to court I found people that needed help too. And of course, you know people ask about this ribbon and you know this is really starting to become a thing and other advocacy groups are connecting with this. More and more people are reaching out, are connecting with us. More and more people are reaching out, and you know it really, I became stronger and stronger in this role and I became more resolved because, as I'm meeting more and more people, going through more and more stories, I'm realizing that people are getting arrested and they're not. They haven't done anything other than grow a plant or provide medicine.
Speaker 1:And you know, for me it wasn't even so much about the plant. It was about the idea that we in America are not allowed to put any substance we want in our body for any reason. We get told what we can do and what we can't do, and that we can't grow a fucking plant. Are you kidding me? And that really just really burned me to my core. And I was willing many years ago to, you know, hike miles into the mountains and find a secret water and go through endless hardship to go and grow these plants so that I could have them for my own enjoyment and ultimately for people's medicine. I was willing to take that risk and I just deepened my resolve and we would meet more and more people and eventually we met a person who had a prison outreach.
Speaker 1:And I come to discover that there were all these people locked up in prison, mostly federal, but then we find out they're state prisoners. So this human solution expanded and we began to do prison outreach. And meanwhile, you know, we're growing prison outreach and meanwhile you know we're growing, and eventually I had somebody from Northern California with the case and they reached out and all of a sudden we started sprouting chapters and next thing, you know, we've got a NorCal chapter and an Arizona chapter and then a San Diego chapter. And then all of a sudden, known activists are connecting to us and we had an activist down in San Diego and then this activist from LA. We ended up joining with them, we absorbed them is how it turned out. We took their prison outreach program and made it our own. So then Human Solution now has this prison outreach program evolving out of this other program.
Speaker 1:Well, all these people that were coming to us, I believed that they were genuine and I think they were. To some degree they had everybody's best interest in mind. But what I didn't see was the agenda. I didn't see the drivers behind it. We ended up supporting cases all around the country. Eventually, my case drug on for over six years I got locked up multiple times one time for months they did everything they could to keep me from being able to fight my case and through this, people came and went. The drama began. Oh my God, I had no idea the drama that could ensue. And so these people that would come in and be volunteers and be so adamantly supportive. I didn't really want to see it, but we were given a medicine and providing and supporting them and going to court. I was traveling around. I didn't have any money, but I always found a way to sacrifice myself and go out and be there for them, with them. I understood the importance of these people coming to me.
Speaker 1:So when my trial finally came up, we had organized, we had coordinated with every connection. I had the biggest network I've ever had. We had thousands of people involved and we had leaders from other groups. I mean, we had standing in the community and when my trial began, we had a rally, a protest, we had courtroom full of supporters and it was a powerful demonstration and I believed it took all of that to ultimately make the change we did. But I can remember how much work it was. I had people that were willing to bring food, people willing to donate rides, people donated some gas money. We had whatever medicine I had, I gave it to people. We even paid people sometimes to, you know, just so they could take off work to come. We did everything we could do to get people to come. It did not happen without a huge, huge, huge effort and that was when everybody was really cohesive, the most cohesive.
Speaker 1:At the same time the Occupy movement was going on and I can remember my trial and the Occupy movement happening at the same time and there were times when we actually would leave the trial and we'd go down to downtown LA and I got up on the courthouse steps in there and with my bullhorn and I would, you know, speak out there and and and somewhere. There's some recordings of that. But you know, I was, I was truly an activist and I was, I was, I was the tip of the spear, I was willing to, I was willing to do what I believed anybody should be willing to do and they just kept beating me down and I kept getting back up and it was quite an experience and one day maybe we'll tell that whole story. But through this whole story there were all kinds of betrayals and all kinds of dramas, and that's when I started becoming accused. Now, remember, the biggest problem here was that I was accused by the government of doing something that shouldn't have been a crime and I didn't realize it at the time. But even activists were starting to accuse me of things, and that's when I realized at one point that I was actually having an impact.
Speaker 1:And when I really got my first haters, I became aware wow, I'm actually making a difference out here, and these people that I thought were my friends, they turned on me, sometimes in horrible ways. I got accused of stealing money, I was accused of stealing electricity, I got accused of taking advantage of patients and just doing shit that wasn't even ever remotely true or real, and that was always the thing that got me. You know and I believe that's that contributed to the cancer that I currently am dealing with is all the betrayal and all the hurt and all the you know, it's like man. I'm spending my time trying to help all these people. And I'm being attacked by them. Well, so be it. I kept going and ultimately we overturned it and this story had I don't know how many miracles that happened. I think there were seven miracles over six years things that could never happen, but because of the amazing effort and will and the love and the support that we had, just the balance tipped over and I believe the hand of God was right there guiding and supporting me. I was righteous, I was doing good work and eventually fast forward. I ended up beating the case and when it was over, I realized that, you know, I was free, much because of all the support I had.
Speaker 1:Again, ignoring all the drama and all the chaos and all the horrors, I mean, we went up on this bus trip up to Montana. It was the most hellish experience of my life. Some good things happened on the trip and we connected with the NorCal chapter and met some amazing people and all of that. But I saw the dark side of activism in this and these people ended up turning on us and accusing us of taking gas money. I mean, it's just, it's the craziest shit. And you know, we went on this week-long 10-day trip on a bus, in this freezing cold bus with these people, that ultimately, all of them ended up not being supportive, and what a life-changing experience, and I should have learned.
Speaker 1:You know, the craziest thing was we went up there to help this guy named Chris Williams and he was a righteous guy. We thought and we went and supported him as he was about to be potentially sentenced to 100 years, 99 years in prison, and we had an influence on the situation and ultimately he got 10 years in a camp and through the time that we were supporting him and he knew what we did and all the good things, somewhere in the middle of it, somebody's accusations trickled down to him and he severed ties with us and it began to happen these people in prison that we were supporting, people's cases that we were supporting, we'd go spend days in court. I visited people in jail, in prison. We did all these things and, one by one, these people, after we were done, they just vaporized and I always thought, man, we could build this amazing world, this amazing community, and we did, but instead of it, growing and building because these people were grateful and were wanting to give back and true and committed, one by one, not only did they not do that, except for rare occasions, there was just a handful. Sometimes they'd turn on us and you know, if I had three cases, what happened at one time, and I could be at one of them and I'd choose the one I could go to. You know, if I had the resources, I had the time and the ability, the ones that made sense to go to whatever and I would get attacked by the one I didn't go to. It just was the craziest thing and I navigated it. But that was really the story of my activism and we'll get to the heartbreak of it all as we start looking at it, and I want to highlight this because there's a lot of heartbreak that we're going to get to.
Speaker 1:But some of the most incredible people emerged out of this. Emerged out of this A woman named Kathy Z, my friend Laura, a handful of people that came together in critical times when I really needed it, people that visited me in jail, and some of them ended up turning on me in the end, but there was demonstrations, people who were willing to testify, tracy and Charles and some of the people that you know, really stood up and really sacrificed and some of these, sandra, you know, gave us money when we didn't have any money and I didn't have any way to pay the lawyer and she, I can remember she called me up one day and says I heard your story and I just want to meet you. And I drove down to Huntington Beach and I remember her husband going into his safe and he pulls out money and he handed it to me. He says I just want you to have this. And Kathy Z my God, she took her retirement and got me out of jail so that I could fight and some amazing, amazing, wonderful, wonderful people came out of it. But you know, the percentage of those people was so small and had I been mindful of that, I would have maybe done things different.
Speaker 1:And I think we're going to cap it on this note. This is probably going to end up going to five episodes, but this is just the tip of the story, the bullet points. I've got a YouTube channel that actually documented a lot of this. If you go back into the archives of that, there's a lot of information about this whole activism and the human solution and all of it. But this really was how important this plant was to me and the people that were involved and I had dedicated my life to it at this point. So I really thank everybody who's been supporting this and if you want to learn more about the story, there's more information coming and if you want to support the show, you know there's a subscriber option and you can get support the show and become more of it. If you want to be a guest, hit me up and otherwise, I hope you have a great day and thank you for being a part of the Healthy Living podcast by Willow Creek Springs.
