Mother / KOMBAT : ANNIHILATION (Guest: Moses Olson)

This special, and super sized episode for "Mother" (Dir. Bong Joon-Ho) brings us special guest Director/Writer/Producer/Actor and proud Seattleite Moses Olson. Who's worked on projects for The American Cancer Society, Microsoft, AT&T, Sony Interactive, Nintendo, Valve's Steam, NBC, Amazon, SIFF, and a diverse array of award-winning shorts, music videos, and feature-length films. In this episode we speak at length about the noir genre, and the tropes within. We get tough on everyone's number one masterpiece, and ne'er used punching bag "Mortal Kombat: Annihilation," and strap in for the Mother of all Holiday Wishes. This, is Mother...or was it...? ........I'll drive

Plot: A mother desperately searches for the killer who framed her son for a girl's horrific murder.

Recorded 12/23
2hr 33mins 11sec

Transcript

Hey, everybody. Welcome. Welcome to the Review Review, a podcast about movies. That's what this is. I'm Paul.

I'm Ben. And today, we have a very special guest. We have Moses Olson. Moses. Hey.

Hello. Hello. Moses is a producer, director, writer, actor, and just an amazing individual that I'm, humbled to have here with us. So thank you so much for joining us. I wanna say slash model maybe.

We haven't met in person, but I think, like, slash model. Is that fair? I'll I'll I'll take it. Y'all are too too kind. And and really, like, legitimately, the pleasure is absolutely the honor is all mine.

This is, you know Thank you. We're sipping whiskey and talking about movies with other movie nerds. This is this is heaven. Yeah. The slice on earth.

A couple times, I've jumped in with Moses like a like a film school, like a random day where we'll put a movie on, typically with Brandon Marino, watch it with kind of like a Zoom situation happening, and we'll just kinda talk through it and talk about it afterwards. It's been, like, a super fun time. That's awesome. I love that. Does anybody know how to work the parties on Prime or Netflix?

I've never even tried. I think during COVID, I tried and decided that I hated it, and we just ended up doing it, the the very old school, let's count down 3, 2, 1 play. Yeah. And that seemed to be a lot better. I did that with Mortal Kombat with a friend.

Yeah. And not who was not Mortal Kombat with a friend in Vietnam. I reference cable guy by accident. Hopefully not Mortal Kombat annihilation. No.

Never. You were saying, Moses. Sorry. No. No.

But I also realized, I think, you know, because a lot of that setup is pretty much doing it on the computer. I realized, like, how much of a nerdy film purist I might need a bigger screen. And so the the countdown approach was was a much better approach. But we've definitely tried a few times, and 3, 2, 1 play was was was definitely the way to go. More satisfying.

Okay. Well, Moses brought a movie to us, and that movie is mother. Hits all the qualifications. To to clarify, not Darren Aronofsky mother. Wait.

I watched Mothra. It because I was priming up for God's All Minus 1. Sure. Is that not so and it wasn't mother. I wasn't supposed to watch that either.

Nope. Or mama's boy. Oh, jeez. No. No.

Jeez. Well, jeez. Luckily, I was playing a big joke on y'all, and I did watch the correct one. Very effective. But You used joke, and it was very ineffective.

This movie was made by Bong Joon Ho. Sure was. That actually, spoilers. I don't wanna get too far ahead of ourselves. Okay.

So I'm gonna start by saying, Moses, how are you doing? I'm doing well. Thank you for asking. I like I said, I'm just happy to be here. So this is this is amazing.

And getting to watch movies again is kind of a a a really big deal because we if you don't know, I just had a lovely little boy. Oh, congratulations. Thank you so much. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Dad mode. And so, legitimately, Ben had asked me what now feels like a 1000000 years ago if I'd jump on the podcast, and I was like, dude, I'm so excited. I'm excited that you're making this thing, but I'm just about to have a kid. Yeah.

And so, yeah, it's been this has been kind of a really lovely thing to do because I've just kind of been able to be creative ish again and watch movies and read books and all that kind of stuff because he's just now old enough for, you know, that kind of stuff to happen. Okay. And, again, right, the much needed debate is when are we doing screen time, and what will his first movie be? Right? Oh, that is an important important question to ask.

Absolutely. It is. My first thought was Mortal Kombat annihilation. Absolutely. Absolutely.

While you play with a friend in Vietnam as the state in k 100%. Playing on SNES online somehow So I guess that and watching the VHS. That leads to Paul, how are you? I I'm gonna say this to both of you. Moses, since you mentioned you've been listening, I don't know if you've been on board for the odyssey of my back pain, but, it's been interesting.

And, I'm going through acupuncture pretty regularly right now. Wow. Which, that should be interesting this coming week. The relaxation point that I need to get to to get acupuncture. We'll see how I do.

Wow. Have you have you had acupuncture before? Like, honestly, just like a couple needles in, like, arm hand area. Okay. And now it's, like, you know, back, head, etcetera.

And I've been doing great, but, you know, no spoilers. But part of this movie is about the acupuncture. And so I guess it's just like, oh, I do I am I ready for this next week? I'm I'm fine. This is fine.

Everything's gonna be fine. Ben, how are you? Thank you for asking me. I'm doing well. I'm in the holiday spirit.

Oh. Enjoying we got the Christmas tree up. Yeah. And, I know some people go after thanksgiving. Some people go a little later.

I'm a December 2nd, December 3rd kind of You know, when I walked in, I asked why you had mistletoe hanging from your belt buckle. And then I kissed you. Well, cutting that. I don't know what that setup was by me. So Well, I didn't wait for you to finish it.

Otherwise anyway Under the mistletoe? Okay. Yeah. Anyway, I am doing well and I'm happy to be here to talk about, this movie. So, if there's no further do you have any more jokes?

I crashed and burned enough here. I need Matthew Bhaskett to come in here and swoop me up and save me in his wearing zer. Alright. And Let's scoop you up. Moses, if you would like to lead us off, this is our segment of what are we watching.

What you seen anything cool? Like I said, I've been we don't need to get into the process of what it takes to to have a baby, but, you know, for about Wait. Don't make any assumptions. Back up. There's, when a man loves someone really much, like, you know, a lot, there's a a special honeypot.

Okay. Like Al Pacino in sea of love. Just like Al Pacino in Sea of Love. I get it. I've seen Al Pacino in Sea of Love.

So I've legitimately missed so many movies. There was COVID. The theater thing wasn't kind of happening, so people are watching stuff at home. Whatever your feelings about the pandemic may be. We we were very, very careful, and my wife is is, considered a high risk pregnancy.

So we just, like, locked everything down even after things were kind of opening up. And so didn't go to movie theaters, didn't go to things. So, legitimately, over the last probably the last 5 months, 4 months, I've been watching everything that I missed, like, all the theatrical stuff. And a a lot like YouTube Lovely Gentlemen, I'm a big genre movie fan, so I will bounce between international cinema and, Paul, I was stalking you online on, Letterboxd, and very appreciative of the, high level of b movies that are in your That movies that are in your That is the nicest way you could say that. Thank you.

Moses. The fact that you had a JCVD in your mix as a a highly rated film, I I Oh, thanks, man. The man crush just kicked in so well. Yes. So yeah.

So it was it's just been me watching just all the stuff that was, you know, we were way too in the thick of it, if you will, to to go out and see movies. So I I don't know if you just brought up, Godzilla, I just saw it last night. Oh, shit. Please. Yeah.

No shows non spoiler warnings. Yeah. But I'll just say that I was very, very glad to have watched it in IMAX. Mhmm. It's if you are a kaiju head, then you're absolutely gonna love it.

If you I think if someone doesn't know anything about Godzilla films in general, they'll probably enjoy it. It's very, it was so weird because the the one of the friends that I took to go see it is a massive Godzilla fan. When I say massive, like, knows the specific heights of Godzilla in various films. It's, like, very, very, you know, knowledgeable, of the genre and specifically Godzilla in the Toho era and, you know, destroy all monsters, everything, has strong feelings about Kong being The same larger. Yeah.

Yeah. Things like that. So we went and saw it, and as we were waiting in line to go into the theater, we were having this conversation, and something that I was sharing with them we got the, Apple TV series out, and we've got the Legacy Monster stuff out. Something that I've had a bit of a disconnect with the American films is that, to me, a a huge thing with Godzilla specifically is that it it he's so distinctly Japanese, and and a lot of the representation of pain. Yeah.

We're talking about, you know, what they're talking about as a culture, you know, the response to certain things. So to me, some of the really powerful stuff is when Godzilla is addressing that. And so this film kinda does that. So I think if someone had never seen a Godzilla film and or maybe you've only seen the OG Mhmm. One or the 1985 one, this is very much it was it was excellent.

I I'm so excited. I don't watch trailers. I don't see it tomorrow. Yeah. You really should.

Oh, I should. Watch it with a really amazing sound system. Watch it on the big screen you can. Yeah. It's I felt like I love movies that you feel love.

Like, you feel the love for whatever that character is, and I know so sadly, we don't always get that with a lot of our Right. Franchise films on this side of the pond. But you could feel, like, this, like, deep, deep, rooted love for for Godzilla. I love that. I actually have to ask.

Does does anybody remember what was the first Godzilla movie you saw? The original. Woah. Wow. That's awesome.

I've not heard many people say that answer. Really? Yeah. Honestly. The one from the fifties?

Yeah. Yeah. Moses, do you remember? I don't remember. Was the Broderick.

It it was not the Broaddrick. It was definitely probably destroy all monsters or something where Godzilla is fighting some of the other, OG kaiju. Okay. And then maybe 1985 was very, very close to that. So I love that you mentioned that one.

That was my first one was, like, the bastardized recut, Raymond Burr, whatever, the 85 one. And I even as a kid, like, I had the greatest fucking time. I had the greatest time. I I've seen that one. I wanna partly I wanna transition from what you're talking about to something that I just watched for the first time that I think is so in sync with that.

I watched, a movie about the development of the nuclear weapon, called Fat Man and Little Boy directed by Roland Joffe. It's Paul Newman. It's, Dwight I forget the name of the actor. He's in, like, a team and Star Trek The Next Generation Dwight something. He plays Oppenheimer.

Solid movie. I don't know if anybody has, like, a soft spot for movies that feel like high budget TV movies, but this movie was kind of I've seen that. I've seen the poster for that, Amber, being like, oh, that looks like it was made for TV. Yeah. And, like, some good performances, but, you know, it's it's interesting to you know, with Oppenheimer and how great that is and some of those incredible performances, this this movie really sticks to, I guess, more of the, like, what are the ramifications and and, like, the papers involved with that and the rumblings involved with that.

And, like, that's more what the movie revolves around, not solely, but very strongly. But I mean, you just you talked about Godzilla and set me up for talking about that. So Well, I typically movie. I typically bring up things that I'm watching that are really great, and I'm just gonna talk about some trash that I've been watching. Please.

I've been watching Squid Games the challenge. The reality show. It is amazing. It's so bad. I don't know.

I heard a review that was just oof actually. So I'm not sure how amazing it is. I mean, okay. First off, I love Squid Games the series. So already I'm, like, tied into, like, the production value is incredible in this reality show.

I'm, like, what the fuck? But What the fuck? What the fuck? But, like, it it, like, borders on on psychological torture. No doubt.

It, strays from the series, because it has to. But it I I assume there are some challenges that you just can't actually do in real life from the movie Yeah. Series. It I mean Does no one dies then? Not yet.

But the thing that's he's crossing the figures. The thing the thing that's interesting, though, is that it's part reality show and definitely part, like, live action role playing. Because they act They're larping. They're definitely acting like these people are gonna be dead and acting like they like, when they're eliminated, they have a a ink pack that explodes on their chest, and then they fall to the ground. Dick, you're fired.

Thank you. So you're telling me I should be watching this is what you just said. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Oh, wait. Are you telling me somebody got squid? Yeah. Sure. I'm in.

It's it's it's just like I put it on for a minute, and what's funny is that I was just watching it casually, and then Jess is now addicted. Like, she was the one that, like, hooked into it and was, like, I need to watch more of this. And we're both watching it like this is hot trash. Jessica Aaron Martin, former guest and actress who was in Oppenheimer? Oh, I can say that now.

Oh, that's right. We haven't been able to say that. She's fucking great. Say what I want. We spent so long during the during the strike not being able to say anything.

It's true. Okay. But I think I should get into a boom box forever. What we all watched, thanks to Moses. I got no I got you.

No I know it's just not good. No I got you. It's not a good joke though. I mean it's a great visual joke for audio Nobody's looking. Medium.

Because if you're gonna fail, don't fail in front of your whole audience. Just do in front of who's here. You failed in front of me and Yeah. I feel safe. And for the record, I've got I've got your eyes stuck in my head now, so I don't feel at all.

Yay. The light, the heat, all of it? All of it. Alright. So we all watched mother.

Mother. CJ Entertainment, Barisan Distribution, 2009 rated r, and it is 2 hours and 9 minutes. The budget on this film is 5,000,000, which is not a lot. Adjusted is 7,200,000. Opening weekend, March 12, 2010, made 36,000 in the US, 51,000 adjusted.

Final gross, North America, 551,000, adjusted 790,000. Final gross worldwide, 17,200,000. Whoo. Adjusted 24.666. You knew it.

It was gonna happen. It had to happen. Other releases this weekend, Green Zone. Anyone remember that movie? I actually kinda like that.

Paul watched Paul Greengrass anything. That was Matt Damon. Right? Yeah. I think I saw that in the movie theater.

I thought it was alright. Solid action flick. Yeah. That was weird. Yeah.

I it was kind of almost billed as, like, a Jason Bourne ish movie. Yeah. Right? And Was it an army movie? I've I've been what was that?

Was it an army based movie? I honestly, I saw it, and I can't remember anything about it. I wanna say it's Iraq or Afghanistan, and and it's more so him looking for WMDs. That's the whole movie. It's like the conspiracy.

So I wonder how well it has aged. Yeah. I was gonna say, it's been a long time. It's been a while. Matt Damon.

Matt Damon. She's out of my league. Remember me. Matt Damon. Matt Damon.

Matt Damon. But this is not team America. Matt Damon. Matt Damon. Matt Damon.

Weekend top 5, Alice in Wonderland, the Tim Burton disaster. Tree, green zone, she's out of my league. Shutter Island, I hated that movie. And remember me. I feel like I gotta rewatch it.

I get it. I feel like, the culture's, like, reclaimed it. Apparently, people love that fucking movie. Shutter Island? Yeah.

Moses, Shutter Island? Actually, I really need to hear why you hate Shutter Island. Well, okay. I saw it once. I was in I was in a bad state of mind already.

I had just gotten out of a breakup. But I for me, it was the opening shot, which shows the boat in the mist, and then we see Leo and put water on his face, and he looks in the mirror. And for some reason and I didn't know anything about the movie. I hadn't read it, the book, or anything, but I immediately guessed that there were had never left the island. That was my like, in my head, I was, like, spoiler alert.

Yeah. Spoilers for a well, how old movie. But Yeah. If you haven't seen it now So that was the first thing that came to my head because I was like, oh, we didn't see them on a shore. We didn't see anything else.

And then throughout the entire movie, I just felt like I was a step ahead. I think it's, like, executed well. Like, technically, it's it looks good and it's but I guess I just felt like I was a step ahead of the of the film. Just didn't have a fun time. Like, the ride you were you were on the ride, but, like, not in the seat.

Maybe I need to rewatch it. But I think I are you a fan, Moses? Here's the thing. I feel a lot of validation coming from you right now is really what's happening here. I so I actually just saw it, within the last few years.

So I did it very late. I also made the and I know it's a mistake to do it. I have recently read the book. Okay. And for me with cinema, especially in being a screenwriter, I'm obsessed with the idea of adaptations.

I find them to be really fascinating. You know, what are you choosing to bring to the screen? You know, what are you moving out? You know, sometimes it's just thematically, do androids dream of electric sheep. Right?

Like, shit is spiritually Blade Runner, but there's that's about it. Right? Right. Mhmm. So I I was reading the book and was just like, this is amazing.

There's just something really, really cool here. Scorsese is kind of a hit or miss filmmaker for me. But I will always and, Ben, what you just said, I think is really on point. Like, I tend to even if I don't like a Scorsese film, I will always go, like, technically, that's sound. Right?

Yeah. It's Yeah. That's the movie that he set out to make. It's not it just didn't work for me, or it didn't connect with me or whatever. And so I'm with you.

Shutter Island doesn't work for me, and I've been curious at you know, now we get to that kind of ending. Do you ever reapproach it and make it a miniseries? Is it too rushed? Is it too but, Yeah. I'm totally with you, and and, I watched it with another filmmaker friend of mine who's also a really brilliant DP, and he was just oohing and aahing over the film, and I just felt, like, so disconnected from the whole experience.

So to hear you say it honestly makes me feel just a little bit better. Simpatico. Sure. We're in sync. Word.

I'm not gonna ask how you liked it, if you liked it. I don't really remember. I feel I gotta watch it again. Alright. You kinda did ask.

You kinda did. But I pretend like I didn't. Yeah. It I don't know. Because Really?

Because we have this, like, love hate thing going. Yeah. We're going into it. Top 5 films this year, global. Toy Story 3, tear up my heart, throw it on the ground, smash it.

That's Toy Story 3. Pee on it while my mom watches me do it. Alice in Wonderland. Yeah. What?

What? Alice in Wonderland. That's some weird thing. Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows part 1. Inception inception inception inception Shrek forever after, hot tub time machine that finished at 89.

Oh, no. Not I would've thought a little better. Yeah. Films of note from 2 2010, Black Swan, The Social Network, Due Date, The Other Guys, The Town, and the remake of a Nightmare on Elm Street. Then if I wanted to know more about that film, could I You could find it, in the library of this podcast.

Woah. Okay. From spooky season. So in October. Correct.

So I don't have to go back that far. Matthew Foskett was the guest. Great. Let's do it. But other than that, you know, movies about dysfunctional relationships.

Social network is still in really high up for me. I think it's my favorite Fincher. Gotta watch it again. My most recent Fincher rewatch was Alien 3, and that movie kinda fucking rocks the shit. If you're just looking at Ripley's hero's journey for 3 movies I can't do that.

Then stop. I tried I I did I did watch Alien. That's it. Why there always fucking Harrier jets over your face or whatever? I mean, it's cool.

Because they're all They're doing, like, exercises here and stuff. Yeah. With Billy. There'll be a lot of drama happening there. Of Letterboxd, which Moses brought up.

Yeah. You can follow me on Letterboxd at run b m c. You can follow me on Letterboxd at Paul acts badly. Moses? And you can follow me on Letterboxd at holy Moses, w h o l l y m o s e s.

You'll see that this movie has an average of 4.2. Very high for the box. The Guardian gave it 4 out of 5 stars, and Rotten Tomatoes gave it 9 it has 96% on Rotten Tomatoes. That's a really good score. Major award wins, domination, Saturn award nominee for best international film.

I'm gonna throw it to Paul. Oh, I'm gonna catch it, and it's my turn. Okay. Director was Bong Joon Ho. Okja, Parasite, the host, Memories of a Murder.

I have not seen Memories of a Murder. Do you wanna borrow it? Maybe. Do you have it on I have the criterion collection. Is it a blura?

Yeah. Maybe I'll borrow from blura. I like it. I wanna really ask a quick question. Okay.

Everyone's first Bong Joon ho. The host. Memories of Murder. Where did you see it? Oh my god.

Did you 2 see it together and this is all being set up? No. No. I I didn't watch it till Moses recommended it to me, actually. Oh, nice.

Okay. I know Ben and I have a a love of physical media. Every time I would go into the UK or some cool place, I'd have to visit whatever cool physical media space that was in whatever area, and I had found a copy of it. It had been on my list. I was following some film nerd website when there were actual film word websites, not just apps or things.

Yeah. Yeah. And it had been on my list forever. Probably jump into this in a little bit here, but, basically, I found a DVD copy of it by, it was a company called Tartan Video that was kinda doing, again, precriterian, pre Dragon Dynasty, pre 88 films, although, you know, the 3 places. Yeah.

Yeah. I knew that it was on my list. I found it at this, like, cool, not Tower Records, but one of those type of places. Yeah. Yeah.

The, you know, small locally owned joint and bought it, just grabbed it, not even knowing how good the copy was, knowing that Tartan video did cool stuff and immediately watched it within days. Tartan was like a distributor, like Arrow or Criterion, something like that? That's awesome. I didn't know that. For me, it was the host.

I saw the host at the Uptown Cinema before it was Sif Uptown. So Uptown Cinema, in Queen Anne. But also, I wanna mention, I saw have you guys seen Tokyo? No. That's he and, Michelle Gondry.

Michelle Gondry, and there's one more director that I can't place. But I saw it at Bumpershoot. I saw Tokyo at Bumpershoot, the year it came out, which I think was, like, 2,008, I wanna say. That's rad. I had no idea going into that.

Bong Juno had directed for it. I just I was a huge Michelle Gondry fan and then got got a delicious surprise while watching it. So anyway, did you know also the writer of this movie was Bong Joon Ho? I did. Who wrote Snowpiercer, Barking Dogs, Never Bite, and Seafog?

The director of photography was Hong Kyung Pyo, the wailing broker Parasite. Did he pronounce that correctly, Moses? Look. We're gonna give it to him. That was so close.

I'm trying. So close? Okay. I'm trying. I promise.

Music Lee Byung woo, a tale of 2 sisters, Tokyo exclamation point. Yeah. Ode to my father. Producers, see Woosik, the good Target, the servant, and Mickey Lee, Lady Vengeance and Past Lives, which is a movie that came out pretty recently. On my list.

Apparently very good. Kim Hyeja, mother, our blues, princess hours, how to steal a dog. Quick pause. I'm just gonna say this right now upfront. This is one of the great singular performances.

It's so fucking good. Max. Is it pronounced Jah? I just Yeah. Like Yeah.

What? Ja? Say it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hye jaa.

Yeah. Won Bin, Yoon Do Joon, the man from nowhere, guns and talks, my brother. Jin Goo was Jin Tay, a bittersweet life, epitaph, a dirty carnival. I don't know why. That sounds like the most terrifying fucking movie to ever get.

It's a pretty straightforward gangster film, actually. Is it? Oh, wow. Yeah. But it's a type of film where, he's a gangster that's connected to a movie, and they're making a movie about gangsters.

It's it kinda folds in on itself. You're it's a very divisive you either, like, really, really feel the film or you don't care about the film at all. You say it's great. Like, definitely, Jeremy. It's in my list.

I own it. Mhmm. I've been wanting to revisit it because it it's kind of like what we were just talking about with So, like, step step in optimistically, but with caution? I would almost say if you're a if a fan of that really specific genre, I'd recommend it. If you do not care about the the Korean gangster film subgenre, you probably won't care.

Let it go. The title, it's one of those things where it's like Paul Verhoeven gets RoboCop, and he's like, I'm not going to make stupid movie, and then he throws it away. And then his wife, like, takes it out of the garbage and goes, this movie fucking rules. Like, make this movie, idiot. Not shooting, son.

What's your name? Again, it sounds like similar story, like, interesting title. Yoon Jae Moon. Jae Moon. The Good, the Bad, and the Weird.

The Drug King Influenza. Song Se Byeok, Sae Park Takra detective. Broker the unjust sector 7, Lee Yong Suk, junk collector, my mister, the soulmate assassination. Moses, tell me a little about this movie, wouldn't you? Is there any, like, behind the scenes lull?

Yeah. You know, here's the tidbits? Here's a cool thing that I kind of really dig about the film. Right? It's so it's Bong Joon ho's 4th feature.

You know, we're starting to see him use some reoccurring actors. Right? Is the same actor that was in Memories of Murder. Mhmm. You know, we're we're seeing him do the things that he does really, really well.

I I guess the first question I would have wanna ask both of you before we even jump in, had y'all even seen this movie before today or before this session? I never have. Okay. No. This is this is the one, I think, one feature of his that I had not seen.

Right. This is one of a few. I've never seen Tokyo Memories of Murder. I haven't seen any of his shorts. Yeah.

And I don't wanna commandeer it with just kinda talking about that kind of stuff, but I do think that it's that there's just a lot of cool visually things that he obviously does in Parasite, he does in Memories of Murder, that I I think I really, really, really appreciate about it. And really shocking that Song Kang Ho, the actor who we've seen in Parasite, Memories of Murder, is missing in this. And I I was always really curious about that. Yeah. You know, it's kinda like Scorsese not having De Niro or at this point, DiCaprio.

Right? Like Right. One of the other of us. I mean, I'll definitely pass off the the torch here, but something that I do think which is really kind of important about this film is that it came out in, like, a really special area of era for Korean cinema in general. Right?

This is kind of this is where just all the bangers, like, the 2000, early early 2000, all of 2000, we're seeing just this really amazing wave of Korean cinema. So Bong, as everyone just affectionately calls him, is Yeah. Is in that mix of these really cool film that are releasing really, really cool stuff. I almost just want to comment just on the in terms of, like, the history of cinema in itself and international cinema, like, why this film or how this film is, like, kind of such a big deal. So what's really interesting in Korean and I I got kind of excited because I love sharing foreign cinema to friends.

And also being Korean, there's, like, a, you know, personal connection there. But what's really interesting is the name of the movie would traditionally be Umma. Umma is mom in Korean. That's the direct translation to say mother. And what I thought was really fascinating about this particular film is that instead of calling the movie Umma, they call the movie, Moda, which tends to only happen with American films.

For some strange reason, when American films or western films get brought to Korea, they pronounce they don't directly translate the title. They'll actually, like, say in Korean. They'll, like, spell out the the titles. Oh, weird. Yeah.

It's a it's a really strange approach. So for this particular film, instead of calling the film Umma, they call the film which is, you know, to say mother because the obviously, some of those, vowels and consonants don't exist in the Korean language. But bong being bong, and I'm in the camp that thinks Bong Joon Ho is pretty brilliant. Yeah. Sounds like murder.

Mhmm. And, again, that r sound is not in the the Korean language in the way that, it is in the English language. So it's kind of a cool double entendre thing. That's so cool. Yeah.

When you do, like, phonetically or yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. Thank you. It's such a fun, like, clever little thing.

Like, they're 1 in the same or what like, it's really cool. I love shit like that. Yeah. And I it's just I know both of you are are are writers as well. A good title is that is that is such a difficult hill to climb.

Robocop. Star Beast. I mean, you know what you're getting with Robocop. Hell, yeah. Did you know the original title for alien was Star Beast?

And then he abandoned that while riding it because they said one of the characters said the alien. He was like, Well, I already did dark star. I imagine it being like I imagine it being like a like an episode of house, you know, where he's, like, bouncing the ball against the thing and, like, all these things written on the wall and then just, like, season a, season l, season I, c like, alien. He's just doing all this stuff and I haven't seen house, so he just looks crazy. He just looks like a crazy person doing crazy crazy Oh, yeah.

You haven't seen house? No. No. Quick Moses, alien alien or aliens? Look.

If it's aliens, you don't have to be quick. Here's the deal. It's alien. I knew you just you wouldn't have asked if he wasn't gonna side with you. The game is rigged.

It is. No. It's it's it's alien, and it's aliens is an amazing sequel, but alien is a better film. There it's there's no wrong answer as as we like to say. I mean, there's no wrong answer because there are both no wrong answer.

Amazing. Well, I don't know what's the Solomon. Sequels are really fucking hard. Yeah. And I think sequels in a lot of cases don't get their due.

There because there are a lot of fucking really bad ones, but there are also godfather twos and rocky threes and fours. So And the aforementioned toy story 3. There you go. Yeah. South Korea's official submission to the 82nd annual Oscars in the best foreign language category.

When filming the opening dance sequence, director Bong Joon Ho danced with lead actress Hye Ja Kim to help calm her nerves. What a guy. Like, he just seems like a like, whenever you see him at the Oscars, you're like, just let him just let him do don't play the music. Shut up. Let him talk.

I actually I was at the Academy recently, and they have all the acceptance speeches, like, on the wall, and they they cut not all of them, but they have a lot. They hand picks them, and they did the one for best picture for Parasite. Oh, that mom is so fucking good. There's, like, the woman who I think is a producer who after the music has, like, started and everyone tells her, like, no. Turn the music down.

Turn it down. And she I think she might be intoxicated. I'm not a 100% sure. But she's, like, she's, like, going she's just, like, going off about how amazing Bong is, and it's like, it's the cutest I love that. Most awkward thing.

It's it's really Just let her go off. Don't play the music. Just let him go. Yeah. Do you wanna read the next one, Moses?

Yeah. Meeting Kim Hye Ja or Hye Ja Kim, was the chief inspiration for director Bong. He met with her frequently over the development of the script to make sure it suited her skills. I love that he wrote this for her. Yeah.

Makes a lot of sense too. A black and white version of overseen by director Bong Joon Ho was screened at the 2015 Sydney Film Festival. I brought this up on this show before. By a raise of hands, I'll communicate this. Has anyone seen Johnny Mnemonic starring Keanu Reeves and Dolph Lundgren?

Has anyone seen Johnny Mnemonic All our hands are raised. In black and white? No. Moses, do you own it as well? Or have you just seen it?

We're both raising our hands about Johnny Mnemonic and thumbing up in black and white. And in black and white. Yes, sir. Yeah. I have the Blu ray, and it's, like, a totally different experience.

And I would love to actually see this movie in black and white, for a lot of reasons. I'm sure especially since it was overseen by the director. I'm sure called Beautiful. The Johnny's gray edition? No.

Sadly, no. Only Moses and Brandon would have gotten that joke. I'm just looking at Ben, like, no. I'm lost. Yeah.

It's okay. Do you have anything else, Ben? Yeah. Bong Joon Ho originally can see this idea of the film he made for this film before he made the host. He wrote the first synopsis in 2004, which is around the time that he met, the the actress Kim Hye Cha for the first time.

Moses, I have a question for you. Yes, sir. If you were to give me the log line, the elevator pitch, the very fast synopsis of this film, what would it be? There are no right answers. There are no right answers.

Correct. Okay. Well, just knowing that then, I would say, I'm not wrong. A mother will do everything and anything for her child. That's very close.

A mother desperately searches for the killer who framed her son for a girl's horrific murder. I just feel like it's like when the movie goes all the way through, the story of a mother who will do anything for her child. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Same movie. Yeah. Just doesn't include the murder the murder part. I'll add one extra little nugget. Mhmm.

Hye jae Kim. Obviously, it's so cool that Bong wrote it with her in mind, built the the film around her. She's played a lot of mothers. Mhmm. So there's a really cool kind of meta thing happening here.

She's played a very matriarchal character in, a lot of shows, in a lot of movies, but, again, nothing to to the likes of this. Yeah. I I couldn't help myself but just sometimes see my own mother. I don't know. She's just so fucking fantastic.

Well I can't like this set. We need to, take a little break here. This episode is brought to us by mothers. Mothers. All mothers.

You mothers. Yeah. Yippee ki yay mother. I love you mother. This episode is brought to you by mothers.

Moses, thank you so much for being here. Stay tuned. We'll be back in a hot second after I figure out how I do this. Hello. I'm Paul's mom.

I'm here to let you know this episode is brought to you by my mother. Just got me. I know. You're hearing my voice you say to yourself, how could you sound so, so young? How are you even a bop?

Well, I am at Pine Rock and believe it or not I smoked a pack a day for 50 years. How, pray tell, has this miracle been achieved? Mother owned herbal organic lozenges made by me for moms. By a mom, that is me, with only the highest quality forage local Vancouver herbs, spices, nicotine, and high fructose corn syrup from the mother on herba organic lozenges. Be all sound.

Rocking and rolling and rolling and rocking and rocking and rocking and rocking. Rocking, rocking out. Oh, sorry. I didn't I didn't, I didn't see you there. This episode is brought to you by the review review podcast.

Like, subscribe, review and share wherever you listen. Follow and share our podcast on Instagram at reviewx2podcast and letterboxed at run bmc and at Paul acts badly. And to you and yours from us, happy holidays. Happy holidays. And we're back.

We are Back. From mothers. We came from mothers. Mothers. And mothers supply this world with so much.

They do. True. Truly. I don't wanna make a joke right now. I'm not trying to.

True. No. I won't I want to, but I'm not going to try to because it's not the time. It's not appropriate. Right.

It's inappropriate. I'm being appropriate. Okay. As Moses and I discussed this, I'm going flip mode. Oh, wow.

We're very good friends now. This is the extinction level event. Stay calm. He's giving you just he's got This is the wild shit. I'm gonna give you some more.

This is where we're at. Everybody spread love. Give me some more. When I was told Stop me. Stop me, Smee.

Stop me. Stop me. I'm gonna kill myself, Smee. Run home, Jack. Run home.

Is it a Christmas movie? Yes. Okay. I don't have a lot. Do do people have really hard qualifications for that shit?

Because I don't. I don't. I I'm in the group that this whole, like, everything's a Christmas movie thing, I am not about. I don't think every but I I feel like Eyes Wide Shutters. Gremlins, I watch every year.

I love Gremlins as a Christmas movie. Gremlins is definitely a Christmas movie. Thank you. Okay. Good.

And Die Hard. Me. And, see, and I'm Iffy on Die Hard. Okay. There's too many Christmas things, too many Christmas too much Christmas music.

Now I have a machine gun. Ho ho. Ho. Ho. Ho.

Has anyone seen the trailer for John Woo's silent night starring Joel Kinnaman? It's a movie that has apparently no dialogue and repeats. I forget the name of the piece, but the piece that's made so famous by Die Hard. And now a Christmas movie was made that reuses that music that is famous for being associated with Christmas because of Die Hard. Someone's doing their job.

Yeah. Hey, John Woo. I like Joel Kinnaman. I like that he's kind of this genre dude, and I am very nervous about a new John Woo. Yeah.

Me too. Was the last one he did the one with Will Smith? No. The last one he did was a a Japanese coproduction called Manhunt, and it was awful. Okay.

Are you thinking of Ang the Ang Lee movie, Gemini Man? Oh, maybe I am. Got it. Okay. No.

I Ang Lee. Yeah. I don't That's also weird Ang Lee. Yeah. Yeah.

There are a lot of I love Hulk. I'm just gonna say that and then move on. So we watched a movie that wasn't Hulk called mother, no exclamation point, and we're gonna talk about our ratings of this film. Let's do it. Let's do it.

I had never seen it before. You 2 had seen it. Moses, you are the guest. You get to choose the order. Oh, okay.

I'll Paul, I you're you're already talking. I wanna hear your thoughts. Yeah. I wanna hear your your, rating without knowing anything. Wanna hear my thoughts?

Can I just call you dad for the rest? No. If not for any reason, I'm fine. Again, I'm fine. Okay.

If you're gonna call him anything, call him mother. Mother. You 2 touched on this a little bit with Shutter Island as I feel like I might be walking into a minefield just by giving the score, but this is a pretty good score for me. It's 3 and a half needles, and I'm gonna say a couple things why. I know that the performance and the way it's written and etcetera, etcetera is supposed to be off putting.

It reminds me of my mother in a way that is upsetting for me that I don't enjoy regardless of whether or not that is the mission of the filmmaker. It sometimes for me and it's a beautiful movie, but at some points there's just, yeah. And also, yeah, I'm excited to talk about it. I'm ready to move. I'm ready to move.

Okay. Moe, you get to pick you or me? I don't wanna give you the pressure of, of of closing it out because yeah. So please go next. Okay.

Yeah. Follow me up. The you gotta follow-up nothing. So I believe and I might be speaking of ignorance, I believe this is the one Bong Joon Ho that I haven't seen. I'm a huge fan of his.

Huge fan of his. And a thing that I found while watching this, as both of you know of me, I'm also a huge fan of Twin Peaks. Mhmm. And when I finished it, I had to be, like, okay. Bong Joon Ho has to be a fan of Twin Peaks.

I I thought about Twin Peaks. I thought about David Lynch a few times. And I went in and I and I found one of his favorite movies is Fire Walk With Me. Woah. And I was, like, okay.

And and we've already talked about David Fincher. And, obviously, Fincher takes a lot from Bong, and and they they kinda work in a in a fun way. Sometimes, I ate this up. I felt like it was atmospheric. The thing that I find so fascinating is that every single performance feels so fucking natural and truthful.

And in this world there was nothing that felt out of place at all for me. It's a process it's one of those tight things where I watch a movie like this and I don't know if I actually fully comprehend what the process was like to get this. Mhmm. To get this because it just feels so complete. So for me and I I tried to rank it in a way for me that was like, oh, how do I compare this to my other bongs which I I love so much.

I love all my bongs. I love all the bongs. And I went with All my other bongs. I went with What you said? All my other bongs.

Yeah. Not the other bongs. My other bongs. You said 3 and a half needles? Was that yours?

Yeah. Because it needled me. Oh, gotcha. 3 and a half needles. Thank you.

Okay. Yeah. I'm gonna go with, 4 big rocks. Nice. Yeah.

I'll jump right in. So I'll go with what I went in, like, my memory of it. Right? Because I know, Ben, when you had pinged me, I was like, okay. I need to choose something that I hadn't seen in a while.

Mhmm. And I wanted to kinda have a memory of. And, obviously, like I said, over the last, you know, year ish, I've been jumping back into movies that I wanted to watch again or rewatch or revisit or watch for the first time. So I had a list probably of, like, the moment you asked, I started creating a list of, like, 15 films or so. Sure.

And It's hard to kill those. It is. It was hard to kill one of them. It was definitely. Hard to tell you.

I'll take you straight to the love of the blood bank. The blood bank. Poor Ben's like you 2 or Yeah. You're on an island. This one.

No. But With Steven with Steven Steven Seagal. So Call me, man. My my chocolate bar. Like, I remembered it being I I was giving it, like, 4 and a half stars right off the bat.

That was kinda my previous memory of it. I was like, I'm gonna give it 4 and a half stars. I think, like like, you had kinda shared, this era of Korean cinema is, like, such a big deal, I think, to me, for me. Right? Like, being a film nerd and growing up watching I think a a lot of our films' journeys are probably very similar.

Whenever I have conversations about cinema with Ben, like, there's a lot of, again, as we said, like simpatico. And a big part of it is just, like, I love movies. I love storytelling. I love, and being a, child of immigrants, international cinema, specifically Hong Kong, Korean, Japanese cinema, has, like, a really big effect on me both as, a person enjoying cinema, but also someone that now gets to tell stories. I didn't realize until I was a little bit older how much of an effect especially Asian cinema has had on my writing style.

And and sometimes it's just a matter of, like, we you made the joke with the list earlier, but, like, killing your darlings, I think, is a thing that Korean cinema does. Asian cinema tends to do a little bit better. Yeah. You know, they take big swings at at characters. You know?

And it's a big deal, I think, when we see that in in western cinema, but it's it's you know, I grew up watching, you know, the eighties, the heroic bloodshed era in Hong Kong cinema. A little bit of a film history thing. 1999 was probably the game changer for Korean cinema. There's a film called, I'll say it because it sounds like I'm saying shitty. It's called Shiri, s h r I r I s h I r I.

Okay. And it was the first considered kind of the first big budget Korean film by way of almost, and I know it probably has a a much more jokier kind of understanding now, but it was basically like a Michael Bay movie. Okay. But it was a Michael Bay movie with very deep themes. Like, awesome.

No. Not as good as your often owned movie. But but you've got to, like, early early, I would I would say, like, Michael Bay by way of, Bruckheimer kind of, you know, so, like, Bad Boys era. To The Rock. Oh, yeah.

Bad Boys era. To The Rock, that kind of era. And so you should say, oh, I've never seen that in Korean cinema. Welcome to The Rock. What?

This is Should've got led in a pencil. This movie comes out Yeah. It but it's, you know, Chaemin Shik, right, from old boy fame. Yeah. He's playing a a North Korean in the film.

We're dealing with the deep North Korean, South Korean divide, and you're starting to see a lot of that in Korean cinema. Right? JSA and these kind of films coming out. So 1999 breaks the breaks the seal in Korean cinema, and they make this big budget film. You know, it's got the shootouts.

It's got the things, but there's a deep emotional core. And, Choi Min sik, again, of Old Boy fame, does this insane monologue. Again, funny enough, got actors that are in, got a lot of Bong Joon Ho films, and it just does everything. It it becomes a an overseas hit. That film kinda specifically jumps right into the 2000, and we see movies kind of just jump out the gate in Korea.

So the Park Chanwooks, right, the Chanwook Parks, the Bong Joon Ho's, like, all these filmmakers that were making these very, very Korean films, but they're kind of getting international fame. Or, you know, in the case of Oldboy, right, it's a Korean film based off of a Japanese manga that somehow, you know, breaks overseas and becomes this it's an art house film. I heard someone once compared this time frame in Korean cinema to the seventies in Hollywood in terms of, like, just, like, re kinda reinventing the wheel a little bit. Interesting. Absolutely.

And we're seeing right. They're having budgets, you know, because, again, very similar. I know we I love that the conversation's kind of folding in on itself, but a lot of Korean cinema look like TV movies Mhmm. Yeah. Up until that point.

And so now we're seeing, the 2,000 or this change, and then we're all kind of physical media nerds here, or at least I know Ben and I are. But No. I have I have a pretty good all, like, 4 ks vinyl collections. I'm in. So right we see 2,006, right, Blu ray's kinda hitting more mainstream.

2,008, Blu ray kinda wins the HD wars. 2009 ish, we're seeing I owned a a region free DVD player. So I was watching I was ordering from, like, Asian websites. Love. Breaking the love.

You badass. Well but I was legally purchasing DVDs. Right? I just had the the region re because there there was no way to watch any of these movies. I thought you were cool.

I bought I remember buying I remember buying, I was in London, and I bought, like, the Edgar Wright, some movie, Shaun of the dead, I think. And I was like, sweet. I'm so glad I own this movie, and then didn't realize that I could only change my region on my on my DVD player 3 times, I think, or twice. Yeah. And then got stuck in the UK pow mode.

Region and was, like, oh. Oh, no. Yeah. Whoop. Yeah.

And so we're seeing in 2009 now, all these these films are, available on Blu ray, and a lot of them don't have the the region, locks on them. Right. This movie specifically, I love that we're comparing it to 2010 releases. It came out in Korea in 2009. It did.

Correct. Okay. And so we're now seeing all these so for me, I think I was going with, like, what it kind of you know, cinema is such an interesting time capsule as well. Right? Like Yes.

You know, we're we're I love the Mortal Kombat annihilation joke. Beep. Because we we think about where we were at the time when these movies came out. I remember annihilation is a pre Internet movie for me. So we went in just knowing that the first mortal combat was dope.

Yeah. Not knowing how awful it is. It could be followed by the worst movie ever made. Ever. The worst movie in the history of movies.

Guys, legitimately, like, annihilation is my gauge for how bad a thing is. Legit like, when we come out of a movie, I'm like worst. Yes. It was bad, but it's not Mortal Kombat annihilation bad. Like, that is the lowest bar that you can give it.

I saw the preview for Transformers, the new beasts, or the last beast, or whatever the fucking new one is, and it got over. And I just, like, with a blank stare said, that makes revenge of the fallen look like citizen fucking Kane. Like, where are we going? What's happening? So, yeah, all that to be said, like, I think all I was thinking about was, like, where I was, you know, how I was showing friends movies.

Mhmm. And then just, like, being in this, again, eating real good kind of era of of movie watching. Right? Like, I'm watching I mean, the fact that Won Bin who, plays the son in the film, a film that wasn't named, he was in a film again, another breakout film in terms of Korean cinema. I don't know if it's aged as well, but, again, they're doing the big Jerry Bruckheimer movie thing.

It's a movie called Taeguki, which was, like, right, 2 brothers during the war, find trying to find each other a little bit of a same pride. Right? There's a little bit of a chasing after what was doing really well in America kind of stuff, but with a very deeply rooted, maybe, nationalistic vibe or again, which tends to kinda be in those Bruckheimer films as well. Sometimes. Seeing Woah.

We're seeing one bin jump from Taeguki. He's jumping from my brother, and he basically does, mother. And then in 2010, he does a movie called the man from nowhere, which actually here's a weird title thing. The movie action is called achashi, which just means mister. So they give it the man from nowhere because it's a more badass sounding title.

Sure. Yeah. Right? But he goes from this character to basically this, you know, man on fire, creasy ass Oh, shit. You know, it's Scott Glenn.

Yeah. He's yes. My my dude, come on. He's doing this, like, essentially Leon. He's doing Creasy.

He's doing Yeah. You know, the protector, you know, the movies that now Liam Neeson does a 1000000000 times. Uh-huh. But he he does this, like, insane hand to hand combat The sun. In the same era.

Y'all just reviewed raid. Right? Because I it's probably I would even put it over the raid in terms of Woah. Final the final not the whole movie, the raid, but Sure. Sure.

The final knife fight is probably the greatest hand I love the knife fight. I've ever seen, yeah, ever in cinema. Oh, wow. And then 1 bin just disappears. He is Really?

So 2010, he has not done anything. Wow. As an actor. Holy shit. You had sold me a knife fight alone.

It's like, I'm that person who's like, yeah. But Under Siege has that knife fight. Like, when people, like, shit on that movie. Yeah. I mean, and they're just flicking their ears.

And Tommy Lee Jones is like, don't hit the leather. The Captain America winner soldier, the knife drop. Oh, it's so great. I got by the way, Moses, you said something that rang really true for me in terms of Korean cinema and just, international cinema in general. People seem to understand that, like, life is hard and full of sorrow and tragedy and etcetera etcetera, and they and swings are taken.

And so it's like, I I remember watching at a younger age, like, infernal affairs or or making movies and, like, things of that nature. And then as we talk about Scorsese and the departed or whatever, and I was like, I already knew this was gonna happen. Yes. But it's it's one of those things where it's like you almost wanna prepare yourself or understand that there's gonna be some shit that's gonna be, like, unpleasant or leave a bad taste in your mouth because life does that too. And it has a tendency to not be sugarcoated, in the way that domestic cinema has a tendency to do it as much, I think.

So, Moses, you're ranking. I will go 4a half lawyers. And you're still at 4a half having just watched it. And then my final ranking about it. Yeah.

Your final ranking We're gonna try to sway you in one way or another. Okay. He's not gonna sway. We'll see. We'll see.

I will I went in going 4a half was my previous feeling about it with all that crazy stuff I just shared. Yeah. And my final feeling is 4a half lawyers. Still at 4a half. Okay.

Great. 4a half. Okay. So we've I did admit as I have a tendency to, I'm willing to wiggle just to especially with movies I haven't seen yet. I really wanna hear what people have to say because I'm still, like, I'm like a babe in the woods.

Like, guide me a little bit. Like, give me a little pet. He likes a little lubrication. It's true. Go in easy.

Mono. Wait. What? By the way, so we're at 3a half, 4 and 4a half. And mother is wandering in this big open field in this gorgeous outfit she has on and dancing.

I feel like he uses fields a lot. Well, at least in memories in this movie, I feel like fields come in Oh. Frequently. Yeah. I, and Different kinds of fields.

But How many times does she break the 4th wall in this movie? A dozen or more? Like, so I mean, just in that opening shot. Right? Like, yeah.

I think she does it at the end. Is that is that the moment spoilers. Is that the moment where she goes later in the movie that we're seeing from? I think it's the same place. That's what we're gonna talk in-depth about this film from start to finish, and people are gonna have questions.

You know, is that moment at the beginning, is that a flash forward to the moment later? So if we're, you know, spoiling too much, my purse like and this was a lovely thing revisiting the film. My feeling as it stands now is that and you brought up the breaking of the 4th wall. I think that that is the moment that Neil goes in, and we're watching everything play out in her head at We thought the same thing. It was everything being deleted.

Mhmm. Like, it flashed one time before her eyes, and then it was done. Interesting. That was the last time she got to live that portion of her life. That was the moment that it starts getting dancing in that freedom moment that we see at the bus at the end of the film because that's the field is her mind.

Wow. Okay. I felt the say I felt the exact same thing, that that was the deletion point. That was as far back as it went. That was the portion that went away.

That was the 8 gigs in her head. Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception.

Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception.

Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception.

Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception.

Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception.

Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception.

Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception. Inception.

In for visitors at the prison, like, to where the mother is, and it's just the movie is shot gorgeously. I just love the way the movie is set and staged and lit and Every one of his movies is shot beautifully. Yeah. And the movie begins with the deletion point, and she's chopping what is it that she's chopping? Herbs.

Is it herbs? Herbs. One of the because her yeah. She sells her herbalist, a healer of some sort. And then she has one of those, like, terrifying acupuncturist.

Office paper cutters that you always think you're going to cut your fingers off. Finger off and she And the way it's shot and the sound of the crunching. Ugh. And she sees across the street, she sees we don't know it's her son yet, but we see 2 young men and one of them is playing with the dog, and then this car goes by and just, like, clips him. Yeah.

And she A black Mercedes. She just goes and, like, clearly slices a part of her finger off. Question. Yeah. Did anybody feel like it's, like, the way it's shot and set up?

It's like, oh, she's gonna cut her fucking finger off, and they weren't gonna hold back. Like, she was, like, she was gonna injure herself, which she does. And, like, it was gonna happen. Absolutely. Yeah.

And for me, it's like, I don't do great with in horror movies, if there's, like, a moment where someone gets chopped in the neck with a machete or something, I have to look away. And in this Meat hooks. Yeah. Meat hooks. In this moment, like, even if they didn't I don't care what you're saying.

Even if they didn't look. Even if they didn't show me the cut, just the sound was enough to be like, oh, god. Ow. So anyway, she runs after and we learned that's her son. And this black Mercedes has hit and run.

And so her son and her friend her friend son's friend hop in a a cab, I guess. It seems like a cab or, like, a car service or something. Like, after the black Mercedes that hit them, and their assumption is it's a Mercedes. They're going to a country club. And it's just like it it's a correct assumption.

What I love about that line too is that yeah. And what I love about that line too is you immediately know this is a small town because that line to me is like, oh, yeah. If there's one place in this town where all the rich people are going, then we know this is small community in a hurry to make a tea time. And as we jump into in this, I wanna open it up since we're going right into it. Is Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Please do. I was really fascinated and really excited to talk about this with y'all because I was blown away. Something that I've heard about him, and I don't know if it's all his films.

I don't know if it's this film. I know he definitely did it in Snowpiercer. Bong does not shoot coverage. Oh, wow. So on Snowpiercer, he had the editor on set, and he was just shooting the scenes and the moments he wanted.

And there's something so specific about him as a filmmaker that was kinda blowing me away. Again, as you're talking about the we're moments into the film. We just have this crazy dance in the field. It's unnerving. Right?

She's got these amazing eyes that legitimately penetrate you every time she's, you know, looking direct it feels like she's looking directly at us. Soulful. Very soulful. Very soulful. There's a, you know, a Buster Keaton esque almost quality at times.

Right? Sure. There's just so much stuff going on again underneath the hood. Right? So we've got this amazing framing.

We've got this amazing composition. The sound, the editing, the we meet her in this moment. We're seeing we're hearing the the blade coming down. And, again, we're saying things about the character. We know that she's it's her own blood when he's like, oh, there's blood on me.

There's blood on me. And it's her own blood. So something that I was really fascinated by and really excited about talking about this film with y'all is that for me, it really clicked with Memories of Murder, Snowpiercer, obviously, and even, you know, the hit that was Parasite, is that he's making these distinctly Korean films. And so I was really curious about what aspects, and maybe just keeping in mind as we're continuing to converse about it because these are deeply rooted generational, often silly beliefs, you know, from her being an herbalist Mhmm. From her being an acupuncturist.

And Unlicensed. Unlicensed, which is a very big deal. Right? But we're we're also talking about generational issues. We're talking about cultural issues.

We're talking about ageism. Mhmm. We're talking about the disconnecting kind of matriarchal culture. Asian I mean, so much. Yeah.

Totally. Right? And something that was so fascinating for me watching it is Asian cinema and Korean, Japanese, and and Chinese, which is probably where I've spent a lot of, I've I've seen I've I've clocked in a lot of hours in in in those worlds. Great. Tend to be rooted a lot in melodrama.

Yes. Asian Asian actors can go bigger, and it still works. In a in a similar way, I think, like, British actors can can get away with because the the, the culture is rooted from the stage. And in a similar fashion, Asian cinema has right? It's rooted in soap opera.

It's rooted in, you know, the, like, the, you know, very kind of a different style of stage, but still kind of rooted in the stage. So I wanted to kinda throw that at y'all because we're taking these things that I'm watching as, you know, a Korean black dude knowing these deeper cultural things, but thinking about, you know, the conversations about Parasite afterwards or something like, Snowpiercer, which is a Korean filmmaker with an English language cast working on a French comic book. And he's still pulling out these, like, to me, very Korean things that kind of, translate to an audience that, you're you're seeing these things about the mother. And I'm, you brought up something really beautiful, Paul, which is and also maybe painful, which is it you know, she reminded you of your mother, and I'm going, this is such a Korean mother. Right?

So I wanna throw that out there, you know, as as more of a thought, not trying to shove it into the thing. But No. Yeah. Yeah. Without getting, like, overly personal or whatnot in this moment, my my mom is a lovely lady, but she's, like, very controlling.

And if I did something on purpose or on accident or whatnot, my mom would 1000% step in and try to do anything to make sure that I'm okay and convince me that what I did was justified. She's she's wonderful, but she is sick. The other thing is, I mean, that's a sick thing. You just made me blow away. The other thing you touched on it really, really well, Moses, and I'm so glad you did is I kind of, like, I'm, like, this movie's fucking great, and sometimes I have trouble with the concept of this thing that I came up with where it's, like, I'm judging genius's fucking incredible artwork or what have you.

Or the concept that we came up with that I fucked that up so. No. But people can look at the Mona Lisa and be like, that sucks. That's that's correct. But, Moses touched on this really, really well.

The emotionality from some characters goes from 0 to a100 extremely fast. And in some cases, it doesn't land on me. Or there's, like, a tonal shift, and it's done with music sometimes where the music doesn't I'm like, what I don't know what to feel. That's so And and and and that I understand that maybe the mission of the filmmaker, it's not his job or any any his or her job, their job, to make me feel anything or make any ultimate decision. It's art, and it should be, as you said, like, the Mona Lisa.

Somebody could look at that and say, look at this piece of crap. I and that's the thing is, like, I don't feel like that at all. I really enjoy this movie a lot, but the the really melodramatic performance that works for me that goes from 0 to a100 that, as a person with an extremely melodramatic mother, don't listen to this. She she will go from 0 to a100 very, very fast. And if you are a third party, you 100% fall under the spell.

You believe it, like, because it's so honest. And that's part of the thing about this the performance by the main actress that plays the mother is fucking amazing. Again, I say this with without any lightness at all. Before we dig into this movie, this is one of the great performances I have ever seen. It's so captivating.

She's incredible. I, 1, a 100% agree. And gonna truck along, but just to kinda piggyback off what you were saying, Moe, for me at least, especially with this and memories and Snowpiercer and Parasite. This one in particular, I felt like there was a, we're getting ahead of ourselves, but a real disbelief in systems and Yeah. The breaking down of, especially, you know, in a world where you don't have enough money.

And I think that he he is constantly telling that story. And I think that he's I think Parasite is a very, exaggerated sort of extreme idea of the classist issue. And clearly like you know, and I have never Actually I have been to South Korea. That's a lie. I was in 9th grade.

Oh wait, forgot. I was in 9th grade, don't remember anything. The world is dealing with these classist broken systems. And I think that that that notion is what Bong is hitting at really hard in this movie. And I think it resonates strongly with for me where I'm like, yeah.

Fuck fuck the cops. Fuck the lawyers. Like, none of these people are gonna be on your fucking side. You need to do this shit your own Well by yourself. This is where it hits, like, for me with, like, we talked about Scorsese, like king of comedy or De Niro with Joker or king of comedy where it's like, yeah, the part of the reason why the mother is taking care of the son along with a lot of we gotta talk about this movie.

We're gonna talk about the philosophy of it so fucking deep. It's it's a 2 and a half hour episode? It's a distrust and disbelief in social systems. Mhmm. Because you should have that as a person who's dealing with health the health care system in a longer form kind of way.

It's a it's a fucking criminal enterprise in the in America at least. Well, I think every well, not in Canada. Whoop dee. Yeah. There's also something really and it's interesting, right, how there's a few similar threads in Memories of Murder Yeah.

Which is oh, of course, this is gonna happen in a smaller town. Right? Of course, this is gonna happen in the countryside. Like Right. We're able to kind of get away with certain things.

I think the time period that it takes place in, it frees up a lot. Right? Like, memories of a murder, Paul, if you don't know, one of the fascinating things about memories of a murder is that it's based off of, the actual incidents of Korea's first serial killer. Oh, shit. I did not know that.

Very much like the zodiac of It's Like, Fincher made the feature with zodiac all the time. I'm like Oh, dope. Like zodiac. Yeah. If you like zodiac I do.

Big fan. This is Yeah. The very, very like, the Korean twin, if you will. Yeah. Love it.

And what I find so interesting about Bong as a filmmaker and as a storyteller, and we're I'm trying to stay right in the beginning of this film, is that when he deals with these particular issues, it can be funny. It can be silly. It can be mocking. Absurd. But it's not always right.

Like, it's not oh, because this like, you know, I think it's where we're at in maybe the just using something like police officers. And I was really thinking about what this experience would be for the 2 of you watching just that stuff with the the interrogation scene, confession scene. Because they're looking at it from a western viewpoint. It's already going to be pretty intense. Yeah.

And then looking at it from a Korean standpoint where you're like, oh, yeah. Like, they can kinda do whatever they want, and it's it's treated so differently in Korea, and it doesn't make it better. And he's not saying it's better. Right? There there's clearly manipulation.

There's clearly all these kind of things happening. Of course. But it's Yeah. So interesting that there's still a pathos there. She clearly knows these officers.

Right? She's bringing the little I don't wanna jump too far ahead. But when she goes to the police station, those little bottles, the vials that she's dropping on their desks, those are the cream version of energy drinks. I was wondering. I thought it was liquor.

I thought she was dropping off, like, specifically made, like, vials of, like, tincture that she had made for different people with different herbs or oils or something in them. I thought they were maybe personalized. It's totally ginseng and and other it's all that, but what's so funny is in Korean culture, they're this small. So anytime you watch a Korean Not this big movie. Yeah.

Anytime you watch a Korean movie now, if you see those little things like and it tends to be in cop movies all the time. They're energy shots, essentially. Oh. Yeah. So she's bringing but it's also rooted in the fact that she's an herbalist and all these things.

But they're, we call it, like, Bacchus d and, is kind of a more popular brand. So she's dropping off. Right? Like, oh, you've had a long day. Here's some, you know and it's not looked at as, like, you know, like a homeopathic that's a weird little It's just like a Red Bull.

It's just like a Red Bull, and she's dropping a but she knows these cops. She knows. Right? Like Right. And there's just something that familiar She gets to know I mean, let's jump there.

I mean, what so, you know, the car the taxi gets in a car accident, which is, like, super random to me. But then they get to the golf course and they find the Mercedes and his friend's name is what? Jin Tay. Yeah. So he just fucking just fucking kicks that, mirror right off and the other 2 just whips.

And I was trying It's so good. You can see him in the reflection of the car, and I was trying to see if there was a mat down there, and I did not see one. Oh. Because I was all the fucking way. I was.

I was like, oh, that looked like it hurt. And I was like, maybe the mat's well well hidden, but it looks like that dude just landed right on the cement. I did not notice that. So when they're golfing, how did they know those guys were the guys? The so they see a golf cart pull out.

How did they know that the guys they attack are the guys that were in the black Mercedes? So they hit and here's what I love about Bong's films and why I appreciate that his films are meant to be revisited. I believe that they do see them in the car when they get hit. That's what I have to Something about Won Bin's character, Do Jin's character, is that we're immediately told something about his memory. Yeah.

Right. Immediately remembers the car. He He knows the color. He knows so there's a lot of really cool little things there that we're saying about him as a character. Yeah.

And the memory in the in this movie, this movie fucks with memory, like Mhmm. Constantly. It's noted too. Doojoon says, like, oh, it's a white Mercedes. And he's like, it's a fucking black like, you're immediately let like, it's immediately told to you, do not rely on his memory.

Do not rely on anything he says, thinks, feels, whatever. It's told to you right up front. He does not even remember the color of the car that hit him. And they yeah. They get to the I love that they get there and they're, like, practicing what they're gonna do, and they're, like like, what are you gonna do?

Right? Does anybody find the fight on the golf course a little weird too, though? I find it amazing. I didn't find it that, like, funny? No.

But it's it's so real. Is it? Yeah. They don't do anything. That's the thing that I think is have you ever seen, for me at least, a fight out of a bar last mostly last, like, 5 seconds or 10 seconds.

Because usually the guys, like, roll around on the ground, and then someone's, like they're not actually trying to hurt each other. That's the thing that I think is amazing. No one's actually trying to hurt anybody in this. Not everybody fights like me. He grabs the golf he grabs the golf club, and he could easily just, like, take someone out, but he doesn't because no one's actually trying to hurt anybody.

They're just they're reacting. They're impulsive. They're, like, we have to do something. I I guess because they're using words like it's about revenge. It's about fucking vengeance.

We vandalize this guy's car. I'm, like, they're gonna fuck these guys up, and they're not they're not sealed. Subversion, I guess, the subversion, like, doesn't land on me the way that I would like it to land on me and that it's like, I wish I had more fun with it like you I guess okay. So here's what I'm saying. It's not to no.

No. I honestly I don't think it's a subversion for me. For me, it's He's not subverting my expectations? No. For me, they just don't actually know they're not skilled.

They don't actually know what they're gonna do. To me, it feels just very real. Jintae comes off as, like, very skilled to me later. And we learn no. But that I think is part of the the joke, isn't it?

Like, I think that there's there's a lot said about Jintae that, like Oh, shit. I didn't get the joke. Right? Like and and here's another kind of fun visual motif. Jintae's shirt.

So you'll hear me say the word accidentally, but that shirt is like, Yakuza movies. Right? Like, you see the shirt or the suit, you immediately know that person's a gangster. I thought he got it for, like, Dan Flashes or something. Yeah.

And so with the with the we call it gangte, right, as gangster movies. Right? Like, he's wearing a gangbae shirt. Right? He's wearing the shirt that immediately visually like, oh, that dude's a gangbae.

Like, that guy's a gangster. I do feel I feel that. And so to as Ben was saying, like, that moment, I love I call it the in Korean, we jokingly call it, like, a shaky kick. And it's just that this is Sparta kick. Like, just that, like, committed kick.

And Korean movies do it all the time right at the beginning of memories of a murder, right when they get to the murder scene and he jump kicks him. Yeah. Right? There's this full bodied throwing yourself fully into the kick thing that I love in Korean action movies and sometimes not even action movies. They just completely throw their body into the kick, and he destroys that side view mirror.

And so That is great. I think that is the joke. He looks the part. He kicks the car like he's gonna do stuff, and then they get there, and nothing happens. And I think that's this lovely whether it's a version or not, I think one of Bong's amazing strengths as a filmmaker is that, again, there's kind of this theatricality in his frame.

We're now watch he goes wide with the camera. We're seeing just comedy of errors. It's silly. When you think about it too, they're and it's revealed later. They're professors.

They're trying to fight these old dudes Like academics. Again are entitled. Yeah. They're academics. So there's just so many fun little layers just in that moment.

But I I do think that that is kind of the thing because visually we're told right off the bat, like, oh, this dude's a bad mamma jamma. He's gonna do I think this is landing me on me a little bit better, not only because I'm embarrassed because I feel dumb, but also because what both of you are saying, like, for me, I'm seeing this and I'm like, what the fuck? This guy's, like, saying all these words like he's a badass, and he's kicking mirrors like he's a badass. And I expect him and want him To be a badass. I'm not thinking about what I saw.

I'm thinking about what I wanted to see, which is not what I should be considering. And to get not to get too far ahead, but I think the subversion that you're looking for is actually when he realizes he has not been putting his best self forward. And he starts putting his best self forward when he starts to actually investigate. And that's where I think I should have been a cop. You have been the best.

Yeah. And that's where I think it's like, Oh, this is maybe what I should be doing because I'm actually skilled at this. And then there's, like, this meta kind of thing happening as well where these characters are not their best selves. Yeah. Right.

There's this, like, almost anchor or weight. You know, because the film is a modern noir. Right? It's definitely a noir. Yes.

Okay. Good. I thought that too. Yeah. It's absolutely a noir.

Right? There are almost and I don't wanna jump too far ahead, and we'll get there, but there are almost no good people in this world. Right? There's no one is actually good. And so but a huge, like, kind of burden is the I could have been.

I should have been. And it's like this continuum. So the first people that they attack in this film are people at the height of their thing. Right? Like, they say it in the police station.

Like, he's too important to be here about this professor that has Yeah. Yeah. Degree Yeah. These things. It's such a great line.

Right? And there's something really interesting that even when we're with Jin Tae and we get this revealed later. Right? He was in the military. He served like every, you know, Korean, male does.

He has the book on his desk. There are these things about these characters that could have been, should have been, and I think that that carries on both her as a mother. And, again, we've gotta also say this about, Hye Ja Kim, the who's playing the mother. The film never says her name. She is just known as mother.

And just to throw this out, being a Korean dude, everyone in this world, and it's an affectionate thing that we do as Koreans, they call her mother. Yes. So even as the jumping forward a little bit, but even when Jinta is taking her money, he calls her mom. Yeah. Right.

I mean, that's her identity. Well That's her identity. Wait. Let's jump to the police station because we talked about the tincture or the you know, she put the because they they get arrest. Everybody gets arrested or or goes Yeah.

I don't know if arrested or they they go to the police station. They're held for some sort of, like, mediated thing by the cops between the And the cops clearly and the main detective clearly knows these people. These are Yeah. They're all locals. They're familiar with one another.

And they know that her son is slow. So, there's this like understanding that he isn't completely able to sort of, like, be there. And And that's like we we transitioned from that piece to the dinner with his mom where she's kind of, like, telling him what to eat and why and asking about sexless. He is charged. Yeah.

Don't skip And his virility? Yeah. But oh, yeah. She does. But she but don't skip the fact that he, when they say they're gonna, like, they're gonna call it a wash.

You know, it's like on football in football I watch a lot of football. When both teams get a flag, they say offsetting penalties. Yeah. We're gonna go, like, repeat it down and then it's brought up that, oh, but he did take off my mirror. That's like $1500 and $2.

Which is not gonna cost that much. Right. 100% not gonna cost it. Like, what the fuck? Totally.

The cops like, okay. Well, someone has to pay for that. And his friend, Jintae, lies because he knows his friend has a bad memory and says it was him. That's where I think it's a really smart writing tactic because we're immediately mistrusting now of Jintay. Like Right.

If we hadn't been before, we're now like, oh, that guy is not on our side. It makes him it makes it him as a character really effective until we fully kind of understand where he lies. Yeah. It's a red herring and it's really well laid. About the sex and virility thing at dinner Please talk about the sex and virility thing.

About sex and virility. Are you listening? Sex and virility. Is that what you call your mom? That's what my mom prefers to be called.

Are you making that up? No. Your mom you call your mom That is what my mother prefers to be called. Hold on. I've never known this.

Okay. That is true. That is a true you're not fucking with me right now. No. I'm not fucking with you right now.

You understand why I have to ask you. Yeah. Because I'm a piece of shit. So if you're just joining us, we're having a therapy session. I just had to because I had never I never I showed Ben proof that my mom prefers to be called.

I have no idea. I just needed to clarify. I'm not judging. No. So in the sex and virility conversation, not the one I had with but the one in this movie, I feel like it's because she's afraid he's, like, floating away from her a little.

Like, she's she's super protective, and I think, like, she just knows that he's not cut out to be on his own, that the state isn't gonna take care of him, that the society isn't gonna take care of him. Like, she does everybody else, like she mentioned several times. Like, are you still doing this or this thing I made you when you were a kid? Or how's this going? She knows everybody.

She can talk to everybody. I think she feels he's potentially pulling away or has interest in pulling away or someone who could pull him away, something like that. Totally. And what's really fascinating about that, and I love that interpretation, and this is maybe even the start of our many conversations or dialogue about looking at it from a non Korean point of view, which is so fascinating because what we're really getting right and and something really important and will this film is so, to me, elegant in the way it bookends things. Mhmm.

But vanity is a massive theme in this film. And and so a thing that's brought up a lot about Won Bin's character is that he's so good looking. And Yes. What's so cool is you've got your lead actor who has played mothers continually in her career continuously in her career. And then you have a your co lead, Won Bin, was a heartthrob.

This is like watching Brad Pitt do 12 Monkeys. This is at that time. Right? It was it's a big deal that he's he's at, like, kind of the height of his career. He's done, more typically in his career at this point.

He's played the, like, really kind, really sweet, really loving brother character. I mean, again, one of the films that you listed was my brother, and then the other film that I threw out there was Tegoki, which is about brothers. So he's played, like, the perfect brother a lot in his career, the perfect son, if you will, in his career. And so he's known as a good looking actor, and funny enough, even though he's not, he's apparently, they've been giving him grief for not having done a movie for over a decade. Something that has been brought up is that his pickiness as an actor.

There's been a few projects that he's, you know, tried to be a part of and, you know, they just haven't seen the light of day, you know, and and whatever it may be. So he's just been really specific about the roles that he's been taking on. But he's known, you know, he's known as, like, a good looking actor. Yeah. And here he is.

Like, they're talking about it, and it's a continual thing. Like, you know, his eyes and how good looking he is and how good and, you know, so you're almost casting this actor who's very aware of how he's seen in society, now playing the son. And so when we get to that point where she's talking about the virility thing, what tends to happen in a lot of Asian, maternal, just matriarchal culture in general in Korea, and I'll speak specifically as a Korean. And maybe we can even bring it up in, maybe something you guys have seen, and I think it was handled incredibly well was the miss Marvel series as well. And looking at her mother Oh, yeah.

Again, this, like I haven't. Yeah. I love that family so much. Or in that show and in the movies, I like, that family is delightful. They're just And it's and it feels so true.

Yeah. And and so here, what the reason I can bring that up is just maybe it would it would be something to kinda anchor in. But there's a weird thing with, Asian mothers and Korean mothers, the shame factor, and we'll see it later when he's coming on the on the my god. She this is actually that's exactly where we're at is where she just drinks in that cock. She just takes a long hard look at that thing.

So you know, she's looking at it, like, in the same manner that she like, he's 8 months old. Yeah. Like, there is no sex Making sure it's working. She looks It's like she's making sure it's scientific. We're just making sure it's working.

And so that shame factor, the, like, my mom is Korean, and my mom would be the type when we were kids and would be the most embarrassing thing ever, would stand in front of the store. Like, it could be Target. It could be whatever, and yell out our names at the front of the store. So it's that, like, lack of anything. And so when she's saying the virility thing, part of it is, I think her character in terms of the vanity, in terms of these other things is like, oh, my son is a a worthy suitor.

Like, she's looking at him. The Korean term would be like a the direct translation would be my little prince. So she's looking at her son going like, oh, yeah. Like, you know, because all the ladies that are lining up for you. I love that just being able to see it without that context, you're like, oh, yeah.

This is weird. And it is weird, and I'm I'm definitely commenting that it is weird. But it's so cool to look at it in that way as well going like, yeah. This is there's absolutely no shame. There's app like, that is TMI.

You know? This is, like what was it? There is some television show, and the the mother is always like, do you need to make poops? What was right? Like, it's just that, like right?

Like, do you need to go pee pee? Like I think of, like, the Goldbergs because the mother is very It is Goldbergs. Yeah. That's exactly what it is. She's talking about the little poops.

Right? Like so it's totally the Goldbergs kinda thing is you're like, this is super embarrassing. And to her, it's just her doing her due diligence as a mother. So virility is that your penis workings off that watching you pee. Like, all of that, which is like it is she is absolutely 0% embarrassing.

Paul, you were gonna say. Oh, shit. What were you just saying, Moses? Helicopter mom. Mothers.

This episode is brought to you by mothers. Mothers. Surprise, mother. It's gone. Surprise, mother.

It's gone. Some fries, mother. Disguise, mother. Star eyes, mother. This is where the sun is at the Manhattan Club.

He's wasted. Oh my god. And he's, like, hitting on the daughter and the whole deal. And this is when we find out the best, but Ginte has Well, he went to go meet with Ginte, and Ginte went to go eat the golf club out of the water at the golf course. To sell it?

That happened during the fight, I guess. It's probably worth some money. I guess he doesn't golf himself, but that's when the son and the mom end up in bed together. They sleep in the same bed. They sleep in the same bed because they've got that tiny little place.

I mean, I think he's constantly hitting, and just like he did in Parasite, he's constantly showing us, like, these are people who don't have money. When you live at or below the poverty line or what have you, things are a lot different. It's like I have friends that are like, we're having our 2nd kid, so we have to have a 6 bedroom house. And I was like, that's crazy because I would just be in the sink while my mom smoked a marbled light while she had like a corded phone while she's in the shower. I'm like, what are you talking about?

One of my favorite moments in my life was when we had a lot of those, you know, remember the, jam, like, jam jars, Like jars? Yeah. Remember which way we're going? Hi, baby. Jars of jam.

Yeah. But the ones with like Jar of jam in it. Characters on them? Yep. Do you know what I'm talking about?

You ended up using them for drinking glasses? We had them for drinking glasses. And I was drinking orange juice out of one of them and I dropped it on the ground and it broke. And my mom said, This is why we can't have nice things. And I remember being like That's her bad.

I remember being like, I think we're poor. Because That was the moment. I mean there were several other moments, but that was a very youth, like, that was like preschool. So that was like, interesting. The glass that we had jam in last week that I broke.

Anyway, moving on. This is where it starts to get that very kind of Lynch fire walk with me blue velvet thing where it's like, we're in this small town where everybody knows everybody. The cops know each other. Everybody has the same mom, essentially, and the whole deal, but there's a dead girl. Because, like, the scariest things always happen in the places you'd least expect or in the smallest towns or that sort of a thing.

Like, that's I I kept getting these, like, hits. It's weird because it's like, I don't feel like I've ever seen anything like this, but I also feel like I've seen I don't know, man. Bong is totally his own totally his own filmmaker, but it's one of those things where you can see he and other filmmakers that appreciate each other. That's what I was saying. Like, him and a finisher.

Yeah. I just fucking love it. Him and Lynch love it. That's why I had to go with this. I eat that shit up.

Because of course I'm a David I'm a David Lynch aficionado. The way that the body is displayed, you know. Mhmm. He's she's dead wrapped in plastic like the the The ripple effect in a small town when you in particular have a dead teenage girl is just this impact that creates this crater and the ripples just destroy the rest of the town. Obviously, we see him walk home drunk and we see and so, like, we don't see that moment in between.

We just see We see a rock fly at him out of the darkness Yeah. In that moment. Like, when it actually happens, like, I ran it back to be, like, wait. What? Because he just looks down like a dark corridor, and a huge rock flies at him.

And he's like, and walks away. Yeah. And all the way up until that moment as well, I kept thinking about and and, Ben, you're kinda hitting on it as well, is that the framing you used to shot. Like, it's shot like it's a horror film. Right?

It's shot 100%. The way she walks away from him. Yeah. Yeah. It's just so tightly constructed.

Every frame is a painting, but there's just something so fascinating about, as we're kinda hitting this, and again, you brought up these amazing filmmakers that I do think kind of break the quote unquote mold of Western cinema. And when we say Western cinema, what we're really talking about is the studio system. Right? And what we're really saying is every 10 minutes, there has to be an action beat. Every right?

And I think, you know, both Lynch and Fincher and all these, again, we tend to deem them as auteurs. The brilliance of, like, Bong, especially, is that this is a bit of a slow burn film. Like, we've not a lot has happened. Obviously, it's saying a lot. There's a lot of setup.

There's a lot of visual motifs. There's, again, continual themes. But something that's really fascinating, even as we're here, right, we're unnerved, and it's weird, and it's scary, and it's all these things. And and even something I think that even more so and maybe close to Lynch is Wang will also find some strange humor. Yeah.

And and it and it and it always works, and it is one of those things for him specifically as a filmmaker that I think he does really well is that you can have all of those all at once. Yeah. Right? Like and he there's not a lot of artists that can do that, and I think it's what makes him really special as a filmmaker, that he can make something scary and haunting and unnerving, and then suddenly funny or weird, and it's everything all in that same moment. And that that sequence that we're talking about, that whole scene is all of that.

Right? It's scary, and it's weird, and it's creepy, and then the music is really brilliant, and the sound design is really brilliant, and the shadows. It's that cool thing. What was it? Rosemary's baby.

They were kind of talking about the shot where she's on the phone, and he purposely cut her out, in the frame. And the cinematographer is sharing that in the theater, everyone in the theater starts to kind of shoot like, look over to try to see past the door frame with Polanski's work there. And in the same way, right, that we see these shadows and we know something's there, and we're, like, squinting even harder to, like, see into the darkness. I think it's brilliant. Yeah.

Having to run it back to be like, wait. That was a what that came from what now? What's going on? Yeah. Yeah.

Like, in terms of, like, the rock direction. These are my probably my two favorite sequences, which is kind of interesting because, like, we don't get mother really in either of them, but is kind of that when he's following her and a couple of the turns that she makes and stuff, which are pretty unnerving. Yeah. But also, like, no mother is in the next one. Pardon me.

I should never forget that. But she, is chopping herbs again. We're going back to the repeated. Before Every day is the same. Before we move to that moment, I just wanna mention the fact that he's throwing the golf balls with his signature on them.

Yep. Like through windows. We see him just like tossing those around. When we're back to the same moment, next day, chopping, it's like the same old we see across the street, he is being arrested. Yeah.

And it all happens, like, very, very fast. And pretty quickly after he's arrested, the cop car gets rammed and basically destroyed. And that's one of those moments where it's like, oh, it's all the same. Then it's like, wait. What the fuck is happening?

Then all of a sudden the car gets wrecked, and then the mom runs up and they're like, she's fucking fast. Like, when she's chasing them, she looks like the fucking t 1,000, and then she, like, looks through the window at him, and I laughed out loud. The way she's, like, right against the window. I'm looking at him. I crack.

Shot. When the car gets hit, there's just a shot where she's center in the frame in the street, and she stops running. And it's just like this really just performance, but the the performance mix with the symmetry of the shot is just fucking awesome. I I I I remember that exact moment because you could see this realization, this fear, this horror in her eyes that her son is being at this point, maybe dead. You know, like, she hasn't gotten there yet.

So They have a pretty seriously codependent relationship to essentially have, like, the a person that I mean, yeah. It's part of your Borderline survival. By proxy. Like, to essentially have an arm cut off out of nowhere or whatever. Yeah.

Pretty intense. And so he's interrogated now. Yeah. Now we're to the interrogation scene that you brought up. Get the quote, unquote confession.

Can we talk about that Apple thing for a second? Yeah. What the fuck? Because that's fucking I mean, that's pretty fucking cool. So there's a lot of, and I also wanna go back just for a second because I love that you brought up that shot of her alone on the street.

And it's one of the few times that much like the field shot that she's there's nothing else. It's just her. Yeah. Yeah. Right?

And they they handle that, you know, and later in the closet, there's a really cool moment. But there's very few times where it's just a shot of her alone with just not and we're saying a lot about her. Right? We're saying a lot and this is again. Right?

There's that thing in whether you're in, like, freshman year, high school, English lit class, or something where you wanna go, did the author really mean these things that we're analyzing, or, you know, are we just, like, talking out our butts? And I I Mhmm. I think the beauty of Bohm's work is that we're allowed to kind of interpret. We're allowed to kind of look at these things. And that moment, I think, is such a fascinating thing where we see her absolute alone.

The car is moving without her, and it crashes. And that is exactly what she would believe would happen, or are we also looking at it going, like, did she will this to happen? You know, is that, like, is her connection to her son that deep, right, that she's just willing to will anything for her son? You know, there's almost like a the herbalist thing with, again, this old Korea world kind of cultural thing. There could be a very easy westernized look at it, which is like, is she a witch?

Sure. Is she, like, is she making potions for her kid? You know, like, these kind of things. And so Mhmm. It's really, really fascinating to see that.

So then going back to the interrogation scene, the confession scene, the apple thing is such a funny thing because, again, we're talk we're talking we're all actors here as well. Something that every character actor that I know and love, we tend to look at every role as there are no small parts. And I think what's so fascinating about the Apple moment is we find so much about this particular detective, this particular cop, right, because he's the youngest of the cops. And and he does the Apple bit, which is such a showy taekwondo thing. You know, look at this awesome thing I can do.

Yeah. But Kick kick kick kick kick kick kick kick. Is this supposed to be threatening? Yeah. What do I do?

And that's what's like, and I love that he's like, I've got a lot of apples in here. Right? Like, he's got Yeah. Like, I'm just gonna keep kicking apples. Yeah.

Right? Yeah. It's just such a a a but it goes back again as we're saying, like, that is frightening that you can kick an apple out of a dude's mouth or kick the apple in half out of his mouth, but it is also silly. It is also incredibly vain. It is also weird.

I mean, I think we're really That made me laugh. Yeah. Like, I had a good time with that. And I think I I I believe that you 2 are on a similar level as me with my David Lynch love, but I feel like this movie is really leaning hard into like, I watched the original series of Twin Peaks at least 7 times in my life. Wow.

Maybe 8. And I think this movie in particular was, like, oh, he has to be a huge fan of Twin Peaks. Because that that level of absurdity, which is based in a truthful characteristic of a of a human is what makes it work. If it was something that didn't feel truthful to that person, you would not it wouldn't be funny. It would just feel like why is that in this movie?

Small places are filled with weird fucking people doing weird fucking things. Hey. That's Dave Lynch's motto. Exactly. In the interrogation where so quickly the cop picks up, but, you know, we know you wouldn't kill anybody because a bad person well, I could be bad Well, and we can read it out loud for I can read.

Like, the cop picks up so quickly. It's like, all we need to do is kind of, like, challenge his intelligence, and we've got this. Like, we can coerce anything we want. No problem. Also a thing about vanity, and it's also a thing Mhmm.

That we we see directly in that moment how protective his mother actually is and and what benefit his mother would have had in that moment. Yeah. Yeah? It's saying, again, as as you're saying, misogyny and all these other things that Bong tends to fold into his films. But, also, I love that you're bringing up Lynch because I'm watching this film going, like, man, this dude loves movies.

Mhmm. Like, I'm I'm feeling his love of storytellers. You can see that he's watched Scorsese. You can and studied Scorsese. You can see that he studied Lynch.

You can see that he studied Hitchcock. And all of those figures diploma. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

And definitely and diplomas just don't get sick. Right? Like Sure. Yes. I mean, you know but all being said, whether all these amazing filmmakers that we all worship or we are all inspired by or have had monumental milestones in cinema, what I really appreciate about Bong and maybe certain filmmakers I sometimes can feel maybe their arrogance more so, Robin Lynch is something that I really find fascinating here is that I feel his love of these other filmmakers in this work.

Mhmm. You know? I can see it in the scene work. I can see it in some of the shots. And, again, that ability to go uber quirky, I felt myself more so this go around because film was not as fresh in my head as he was told to remove his pants, which knowing the genre and knowing, I've seen enough Korean cop movies or even very specifically, like, countryside Korean caper type flicks or whatever that, oh, he's about to get I mean, even the fact that here's a filmmaker that had a very similar scene in Memories of a Murder, and he doesn't do that.

You know, he's subverting even his own work is really fascinating. Yeah. I just found that to be really interesting. So there is an admission that there is subversion happening. So we are saying that.

You are correct in in the nursing It is occurring at least at times. Yes. Whether I understand it Hold on. I just wanna I just wanna say something. Paul, you're right.

You heard that. Right? Yes? Absolutely. Okay.

Great. Excellent. When his mom visits after the interrogation and basically is just like, what the fuck happened? What are you doing? You are a fucking idiot.

And the son's just like, don't call me an idiot. You signed a confession. You agreed to all this shit. As you said, Moses, like Which is also a true thing for him throughout the film. Never happened.

Yeah. Never happened. I don't know if he real quick sidebar. Have you guys ever seen the documentary series making a murder? Yeah.

Yes. Do you remember the interrogation scene with the young man? Yeah. That's what I was thinking of. It was like, oh, yeah.

The cops will do anything they can to make their job easier. And if they can just have someone if they can just be like, so but, you know, but you did it. Right? You did it. You just get them to say it and make their make it seem like it's gonna make their life easier.

Yep. I'm gonna step your side Please. Side a little. Step on my side. I know a couple of the folks who've worked on that, produced it, whatever.

And, when you deep dive like that thing and you I don't know, man. It's one of those things where it's hard to say how much is this is the cops, how much of it's him, and but a lot of it would say, like, the cops are, like, okay. We got him a second time, and we're not gonna fucking let him get away. Well Whether it's accurate true Sure. And the thing that I always think of when I see something like that, I'm like, Yeah.

But this one is being recorded. How many are not? Mhmm. Mhmm. People are in power for positions are scared of losing their power.

Oh, man. And they do things to try to anyway. This episode's already supersized. Yeah. Let's not get into that.

The the cop when the cops talk with mom and they recreate the murder and she's handing out flyers and her coworker helper, who I I think is the only good person in this movie, is helping her hand out flyers about, like, his innocence. He didn't do this. But he's out there in broad daylight helping the cops recreate the murder with this big silver dummy. Oh my god. That moment.

And they you were gonna say? They take it upstairs, and the head pops off, and I died. I died. And so this is also a cultural thing. I'm legally dead.

When you confess to a murder in Korea, you actually have to walk Oh my god. Really? Them through it. So that moment, Memories of Murder has a very similar moment. Yeah.

Yeah. And that in itself is also doing this thing where he doesn't even know they're pushing the the dummy to be in the position. You know, he doesn't even know how it happened. Yeah. And and that's what we're discussing.

Yeah. Or he doesn't remember, you know, the way that they kinda show it there. And, again, right where we are now doing this really interesting again, back to the comedy bears, much like the golf sequence that you didn't care for. Right? There's there's all these, like but he's kinda doing the same thing again.

Right? Except it's bigger. It's a grand scale. We find out that characters are being set up, you know, when we kinda get to the end of the film that are observing the situation and scenario. We've got, Herb being lost in the crowd.

There's just so many amazing kinda things happening there, but, also, we just got a comment, brilliance of him as a director to have all these moving parts, the camera, the the way that this is playing out, the theatricality of it Yeah. Is just so astounding. Yeah. All the people moving in the frame and just the rhythm of everything. And, again, the sound design and the music, it's just brilliant.

Yeah. And everyone's there watching. Like, the whole the whole city is there to see Right. I mean, this is a huge deal. If you live in a small town, this girl was murdered and That's shown in town for sure.

Yeah. And he sees the teenage daughter of the, of the bar owner. Yeah. That he has a crush on and he takes his mask off and waves at her. Yeah.

And the cops are like, what the fuck are you doing? Stop. Basically being like, show us how it happened and they he has no idea. But, yeah, the silver head rolls right off. The head that pops off.

And these Don't touch it. Don't touch it. Don't touch that. Don't touch it. It's great.

I we go from that scene to, like, the mom showing up at the wake or the the funeral for Moon, and, obviously, like, so inappropriate, terrible. Like, they react appropriately. Like, what the fuck are you doing? But for her but for her as a character, it makes total sense. Perfect sense that she's there and that she's defending her kid, and she's like, well, funny thing is he didn't do it.

She thinks they might be allies. Right. But the because They wanna know who did it. Period. That's that's what we should all be worried about.

Right? And the face slap that happens when somebody steps in to one of these fights and actually does something, an actual punch, an actual kick that didn't happen at the golf course. It's not that I didn't like it, Moses. I just wanted somebody to get face slapped like in this scene. But that's I like that, it builds up where these are all kind of the altercations are kind of hokey to a degree to me, but then the face slap happens, and it's like, no.

This shit is real. Everybody stops. Everything stops. The teenage girl, the lived with their granny who drank a lot of, rice wine. Rice wine.

Soju? Yeah. Soju. Right? Yeah.

Yeah. And cheap stuff, I think. Yep. Because soju Whatever she can get her hands on. You shouldn't be that white, at least as far as I understand it.

She's just throwing it everywhere. It looks like milk. It's great. A white paint. And then the mom gets the lawyer, the best lawyer there is or whatever.

Right? In the town or in the county. What is he? Something? He's clearly a big shit.

He seemed to me, it seemed like somebody who, what do they call them? Better Call Sauls, like, getting the person who's gonna, like, car accident lawyers. You see him on the billboards. Yeah. That's what it felt like to me.

Called I got the feeling that she was never gonna see this lawyer again. Like, they go over what happened a little bit or whatever, and he hears the money down. Yeah. No money down. Yeah.

I mean and he just, like, bolts. I didn't think we were gonna see him again anyway. I didn't take that. I mean, I get I I come back to the idea that I feel like Bong is hitting on systems that are set to fail for people who don't can't afford it. Keep rich people rich, etcetera.

Yep. Yep. And they're just looking for anybody to pin this fucking thing on. That's the other thing about a small town. You don't want people to panic, so they're just gonna pin it on anybody.

And they just went for the easiest. I mean, it does make sense though when they like, they're like, well, we found the golf balls. They weren't they found the golf balls and he is also they were making they were connecting the dots that he was hitting on the teenage girl at the bar. And so, like, what sucks is that they are right. Spoilers.

It sucks that they they actually even in doing little to no work, were actually right. Well, the mom's doing all the work, and that's the thing that, like, I end up questioning throughout this movie, like, when we get to the end, and we will get there, people. Don't you worry. We're gonna take our time, but we'll get there. When mom goes take their time.

Go damn right. They make it with care and love and a little just a few feathers of gold. But, maybe a slap or two. The mom the mom goes to Gintez because she's so convinced that it must have been him, and she finds the golf club in his place. I feel like she's, like, breaking boundaries now.

We've seen her break boundaries between her and her son Right. Obviously. But now we're seeing her, like, fully breaking through boundaries of other people to prove her right. She assumes correctly that she is the only one that is going to fight for him. Yeah.

That's it. Period. Yeah. And so she's gonna, like, pull out all the stops, do whatever it takes. And that whole scene, her sneaking in, finding the golf club, did anybody okay.

When you first saw this, what did you think the outcome was gonna be? Does anybody have an answer for that? You mean, like, the the moment Who did it or what was the how how was she killed? I I was fully on board for I I will admit, I was fully fooled by the storytelling that Jin Tae was was culpable in some capacity. I felt I felt like they did a good job of layering laying those bread crumbs for me to follow and for me to believe that she was on the right track.

And so we we saw that he was not a trustworthy individual, at least in terms of her son and and, like, all that. I thought that she was gonna, like, at least find something that I was fully on board with her being the, like, detective of the story and saw in solving the crime. Moses? I had seen the film before, so I I think I was just kind of, like, looking more so at the things that I may have missed the first time. Sure.

And so right before this scene happens, right about the lawyer moment, something that I did find fascinating, I'll hand the baton back to you, is that we are almost exactly halfway through the film. And at the almost precise halfway mark of the film, it becomes a mystery film. Mhmm. She is now the hardball detective chasing after, and so this is one of the first things. So that was more so what I was kind of gleaning That's awesome.

At this point is, you know, where Sam Spade. Yeah. Yeah. The tone shifts. Like, it does the tone shifts extremely hard.

And I do like that they take that knee that noir trope of the detective or the antihero, the protagonist, whatever, watching people fuck. Like, I because that is something that happens over and over and over in the in noir movies, and I love that that happens in this movie. Usually, it's through a camera. While I was watching, yeah, body double or whatever, I was watching this movie, and I was like, so Jyn Tae or somebody was using that club and hit a golf ball and a golf ball hit her, and that's what killed her. That's what I was assuming through most of this movie was that was with the thing that did it.

Like, it just happened to have his name on it. Like and then I just figured that he had thrown it through the window that she went into and Okay. And that someone else had been involved. I I imagine I I as as a fan of mysteries and noirs and all David Lynch and Ennis, I knew there were memories missing in this story. So I I I knew what we saw wasn't the full story.

So I was just, like, waiting for for the rest of the story to come. This is where we start getting the Laura Palmer breadcrumbs though, a little more of the story because we get the video with Mina. Mhmm. Did you notice how long that video was? Anybody see how long that is?

Like, 3 minutes, 4 minutes? I think it was less. Moses, did you see? On the phone. I made a note.

Yeah. It's 1 minute and 11 seconds long, Ben. Illumina. What I I wanna mention is She walks all the way through a fucking storm. I I just wanna mention that her escape from his Disposable glove.

Apartment is so brilliantly well shot and the tension of the water bottle falling and the water slowly leaking to his fingers. I just that is that is a master of his craft because you're just, like, immediately tense. Even though you don't even know this guy is a bad dude. You would still assume he is at this point anyway. Yeah.

I did. There's also just a really fascinating thing about that particular sequence as well, which is this person is probably what would be deemed a best friend who knew what we've been given as an audience is the girl that he was attracted to, that he has a crush on. He's sleeping with her regularly because her, manhua, her comics are there. We're we just learned so much again. We're back to vanity.

We're back to all these kind of things about these characters, but also kind of, and I know we're kinda commenting before about the virility thing and all this other stuff. The absolute disinterest in the the sexual moment that's happening there. Right? She's just hiding. She's biding her time, and that's also back to the kind of detective hiding in the closet kind of way that they approached it, is that in a way, she's the monster in the closet.

Right? Like, there's just a lot of cool little layers there, but but just her whole mission and, you know, and again, back to Bong being a master of his craft, the almost silly comedic amount of stuff she had to walk by to get out of the house. Yeah. Yeah. Just growing.

Yeah. Yeah. What is Bong's thing about also, like, water flowing on the ground? It's like when dude pees early in the movie, there's a shot of water flowing. Oh, yeah.

Like, in this, the water spills flowing. In the head. I was gonna yeah. There there's something about liquid flowing on ground. I mean, it's it's fun to shoot.

I I I kind of agree with that. I mean, that that's kind of It does. It's fun to light. My interest. Yeah.

Yeah. I think there's also something interesting. The first time we see it is when he's taken a piss on it, and she Mhmm. Coincidentally or ironically uses a rock to cover it. Right.

And she's trying to clean it. Right? She's legit kicking more dirt on top of it. And fast forward to the end of the film when after, you know, we'll get there. But with the blood, she tries to cover it up.

So we're the first thing with the paper cutter cutting the herbs, she's willing to, like, literally have blood on her hands for her son. Mhmm. Willing to hurt herself for her son. Wow. And now she's covering up her kid's piss.

Right? Like Yeah. Yeah. I didn't think of, like, all these things that, like, constantly, like, have a tendency to repeat. Like, the the the theme is different or the usage is different or what have you.

Like, the happens Yeah. The situation is different, but it repeats. And we get the repeat of the attorney, like, if the assistant picks up the mom in the rain. It says, is he assistant? I think he's, like, the, your co counsel attorney.

I don't know. Yeah. Like, his, like What do they call him? A clerk? Yeah.

He handles the small stuff. Right? Like Yeah. He he goes and picks up mom and brings her to, like, a karaoke bar. And as you you you keep talking about vanity, which I love, where it's, like, drive a Mercedes 230, live in a shoebox, whatever.

Like, as long like, just don't bring anybody to the shoebox. Like, live through the Mercedes. This attorney is gotten these 2 dudes so hammered with a presumably prostitutes question mark. Of course. Definitely call girls.

That's something. They are legitimately at, we call them Noravang, karaoke bars. They're just karaoke bar girls. That's like They're just like your flavor Flav at the karaoke bar. They just work at the airport.

They just work at the airport. Get you help you get drunk and hang out with you. So they're, like, waitress slash strippers without having to, like, dance on you. Yeah. But they'll like No touching.

No touching. They'll they'll be cute with you. They'll drink with you. They're just gonna flirt with you and get you to spend more money. I think Yes.

Dude, I think she actually likes me, though. Like, do you think I think she I mean Well, that's her job. Pay her to be nice. No. That's her job.

No. Come bro. I think she's she's into it. Come on. Well, you're gonna spend more money and not get anything.

I've also I remember the thing I was gonna say earlier. I'm also watching Arrested Development. We're talking about amazing moms. Okay. Well, this episode is brought to you by motherfucker.

Great moms. And reality. Jessica Walter being one. I just wanna say I need to get all these all these mud. You're not supposed to do this little thing.

Me? Yeah. I'm quoting Jessica Walter. So she she is so upset by this karaoke thing. Well, and her flaming Doctor Pepper is.

But I but I have to but I have to mention that he so the lawyer the only reason he does this is because he realizes a monetary avenue for himself which is he's found a partnership with someone who runs the asylum. And if they claim that her son is unable to serve time because of his mental well-being and that he can go be put into a mental health place, there's a there's a money there's a back channel money thing happening here. Yeah. Well, dude, there's a yeah. He's made a side deal with somebody where it's like, hey.

If I can get her to put her cable in the way of the most famous killer in this city How much are you gonna pay me in our side deal, which actually does happen in actual settlements with actual lawyers? Guy who's like, he runs the hospital. He's Phil Lanbeer. What? They can't like a wrestling announcer or something.

The owner to I'm Paul Baer. It's so Take the snake, Roberts. It's so good. Exotic. Well, let's just name wrestlers for the next 25 minutes.

Crazy. I was a stone cold sea Boston guy. Oh, nice. I like that. I liked British bull dog and Bret Hart.

I was a Howard Foundation type cat. I only really got into it in the Stone Cold Rock era. Oh okay. The Raw era. The Attitude Era.

The Big Time. I mean I did like unfortunately, I liked Hulk Hogan at one point. You all did. You did. I had too much burrito.

Maybe I should go home to bars. Hulk Hogan, the Mel Gibson. Like you did the wrestling. Fuck. Do June smile.

Too much burrito. When we get the Flash, just like a 5 year old child standing there with some sort of bottle You mean the Flash going, going to the speed zone, the Oscar award winning, moment in Speed Force. Speed Force. Yeah. This whole thing is falling apart and it's canceled and it's over.

Mhmm. But he that it won an Oscar. So did crash. We've talked about this. So did driving miss Daisy.

So did green book. Leave it alone. Says all these dumb stupid shit. Damn it. Children, do I do I need to give you a moment?

No. Yes. Do we have to go? The mom when the mom sees the flash, it's just like what we see is, like, random kid, random bottle. It's like how long is that flash before she starts like, we see her with her head in the toilet throwing up at home?

We see a flash of a child. Yeah. It's, like, it's not even a second. It's so quick. Yeah.

I think the other beautiful thing about that, right, is we see how she sees her kid all the time. Yeah. Right? Yes. Yeah.

Right before the puking. I mean, I I'm definitely in the world where I feel like my father always sees me as a child and will always see me as a child. Oh, dude. Yeah. Can't do it.

That's at least my world, and I can see like, I think that's how she sees her son is he will always be 10 years old or whatever. And I think there's also the guilt trip moments, you know, as he was talking about his memory earlier in the film. Oh, yeah. He comments on the poison moment. And remembering.

Yeah. Is that earlier, or is that when she because she comes and visits him in prison, and he he says it there. I I vaguely recall it happening beforehand, but I could be wrong. Maybe it does. And when she gets home after she pukes, Jintae is there.

Like, I love when she opens the door and she thinks it's her son. Well, I think it is shot, and it is hers. And it is It is. They show him for a moment. Yeah.

I believe so. Okay. I I love I love that. I think that's a brilliant moment. It's because of course she would like Well, yeah.

Of course she would. Anybody would, right? Yeah. You're accustomed to seeing this person in your home with their shirt off. Oh, yeah.

I'm not saying take your shirt off. Oh, okay. God. But yeah. And she sees Jin Tay.

And for a second, you know, and it does it so well. Bong is so good at this. He makes you feel unease. He makes you feel like this is not a trustworthy moment. It's tense.

And then it bends it. And he bends it to the direction of, like, Jin Tae is here. He's an ally. He's here to help you. He wants he wants to help.

After he steals her money. Sure. Yeah. After he steals her money. He's like the kid from Monster Squad who makes the bully eat the smashed Snickers bar.

He's actually a cool guy. I mean, he's I'm in the damn club, aren't I? Moses is in the club. But I just feel like but it feels real to me. It feels like it feels it just feels like a real human doing something that is immoral but also not going to hell for.

But gonna go help gonna go gonna gonna help try to Yeah. Solve this crime. He has a feeling that he can. He has the right attributes. I have a certain set of skills.

You would have made a great cop. I will look at the too. The mom too. Find you. She has no fucking shame.

She talks to everybody. Yeah. She's, like, visits her kid in prison multiple times and he keeps getting these memory waves because he hasn't, you know, had his, medicine in a while or whatever it might be that is causing him to remember these things. But I do love that mom just starts like, she talks to everybody. Mhmm.

And this is, you know, during one of those prison visits, as she's gathering all these little pieces of information, her kid remembers what she attempted to do. How he was 5? Yeah. Which is like she man. But then we get, like, Jin Tay in full detective mode.

Clearly, this guy is a skilled this is a profession he could have taken. Yeah. Probably better than the actual detectives that are on the case. That's a question that I ultimately have. It's even like the thing with when mom is, like, oh, that poop on your phone that's spinning when you get a call is so funny.

Can you do that to my phone? Your phone's too old. Like, she constantly just puts fucking a and b and 12 together. She's very clever. She's very observant.

Like Very manipulative. And very manipulative. Yes. Well, I think she also understands her role. The bottle drop, man, is so great.

Yeah. To trick those boys. She also Yeah. Yeah. And that's a moment too where it's like she understands her role as being kind of an invisible person.

As an elder woman, as an older woman, I don't know because I am not. But I've heard plus 50 women feel like they are pretty Don't matter? Yeah. Don't matter. And that there's so many moments in this where I feel like she knows that she can just disappear.

And I'm jumping ahead here, but when she gets to the trash man's house and he's like, Don't I know you? And she's like, no. And he just goes, oh, okay. Yeah. Sure.

Even though the whole piece The other fascinating thing about her character as well, right, because, obviously, we keep talking about kind of vanity, is that she, out of all the characters, is the only character that lacks vanity. Her only vanity is her son. Yeah. Right? So even in that the, you know, the the poop phone moment, she lacks the self awareness to recognize that they're mocking her.

That, like, like, she's about, like, I will still use the old lady technique. I'll still, you know, feign this thing. Mhmm. But it's it's continuing. Like, it's not about her.

So everything that she's doing, like, the lack of vanity to go to the to the wake. You know, these Yeah. These things that she's continually doing throughout the film, the way that she infiltrates, like, again, back to the detective thing, back to the noir thing. You know, Jinta, again, being a really great noir character. It reminds me of the, mouse in double in a blue dress.

Right? Like Sure. I haven't seen that forever. Holds up, by the way. I wanna hold.

We need we need, Walter Mosley in this era of the, you know, HBO Max kinda miniseries things or whatever. That's what we need. Type of character where you're like, they're volatile. I don't trust them. But, again, because Bong is so good at it, you know, and I I would say he probably pulls from the school as for Cece in that.

But even Ginta is like, you I love that you're commenting. Like, he's almost this noble character. I'm like, that dude took her money. That dude is driving a nice car by the end of this film. You know, he's he made sure that she paid up before he did his little cop, you know, separating him in the Sure.

Interrogation room moment. Yeah. But there is something really fascinating about her as a character. She's always talking about how handsome her son is. She's always, you know and then even that really sad moment when she is with Chaemun, the the woman that owns the little Photoshop Mhmm.

And, again, kind of one of the few good people in this world, is always talking about her son's eyes, always talking about how handsome he is, but there's something that wrecks me in that moment. And, again, it's her work as a performer is that she's talking about wishing that they had died, that she'd be in heaven dancing with her son. Yeah. That, like, there's just something really heavy about that that this world that she exists in to only live for her son. Gong plays both sides of that.

Right? In the same way than Parasite, the whole time you're like, these aren't the good guys. We understand them, but they're not the good guys. Yeah. Yeah.

You know? And and that's really fascinating that he can find the humanity in these moments or the pathos in these moments where you're like, I get it, and this is really sad because we are legitimately seeing what her world living for her son plays out as. Yeah. You know? And even when she talks about wishing that she was dead, it's not because her son is such a burden.

It was her way of protecting her kid. I it's it's just really fascinating. I'm so glad you touched back on that point because I it hit I took a big sigh there because I breathe really hard because I assume, you know, the son never asked to be born. She never asked for this to be the situation, and she feels so much shame and guilt that this is his existence that she would have wanted nothing more than to make sure he didn't become, like, you know, a ward of the social system or whatever was gonna potentially happen to him. Like, I think she just she felt so much pain and sorrow over the fact that he had to be born into the existence that he's in and trapped by the existence she's created for herself.

Like, she's just got there's a lot of fucking pain there. I I don't know if it's as much pain as getting your fucking tooth knocked out with a fucking leather soled boot, but that shit is fucking brutal, and it's awesome. Yeah. I like after, like, when those 2 boys that are trying to mess with that girl who's helping with the phone thing and whatever, and he get and Ginte gets him in that Ferris wheel, and he's like, what's the real fucking story here? And that one guy is just begging on, Dujune, and he just fucking pummels him in the fucking face.

There like, there's a part of me that feels like, a sick level of, like, triumph, like, in that moment. As you said, everybody's so shitty. When you think that this this is a thread that is worth following. Right. It it makes you and like a good new r, it it really keeps the onion to Brian Johnson's credit.

He keeps going. Like, there are so many layers to it that you A lot of red herrings. That you're yeah. And that you're on at least for me as a viewer, I'm constantly following these threads he's giving me, and I'm on board. And it's is it the moment where the son in prison, his memory, like, comes back?

Yeah. Because he's not getting he's not receiving acupuncture or whatever anymore, I think, is a big piece of it. Like, he's he's away from his mother enough. He's thinking independently. But he's also doing what his mother told him to do, which is rub his temples.

Right. He's doing the acupressure action. Right? Most of the movie, he's not listening to his mother. Yeah.

That's also, I think, kind of an important thing is that when he was actually away from his mother, he was actually listening to her. Yeah. And then the added part of that, right, even that every time someone calls him, in Korean, the word is, I think the subtitle translation kept saying, retarded or idiot. Right? Like Right.

But what basically, they're calling him an idiot, and that's what was his trigger word. But even if there's a brilliant moment at first when he's rubbing his temples and the you know, he's like, oh, this will be funny. Like, call him that. He's avoiding a fight. He's actually listening to his mother, and I think I found it really fascinating when he remembers the first thing he does is cry out for his mom.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. He does. That's right. And we have forgot to mention this.

They've established very early on that every time he is called that name that he reacts in a impulsive violent Yes. Way. Right. Which is important. It's like punching a hot button.

Yeah. Yep. Yeah. That's his trigger word for sure. Mhmm.

Yeah. This is when mom meets the grandmother. Granny of the And gets the phone. Right? The phone that we've heard has a bunch of photos of men that this teenage girl has been with.

Yep. Because Which is very Laura Palmer ish. Yep. Minus the phone. Absolutely is.

Minus the phone. There were no phones in 1990. Spinning poop phone girl is like Mister, you burn suit. I'm not following you. Burn this suit.

Burn this suit. How do we check out that suit Burns was wearing when he got shot? Did you have the same backwards talking for him with the flaming carts? I'll drive. I can set up your phone where you can take photo or videos and it won't make any noises.

Mhmm. We will make you a pervert phone. No problem. And I love that they call it a pervert phone. Is that what people called you in college?

Pervert phone? They called me Pervert Paul. Oh, got it. And then they called me Pervert Poned, and they called me Pervert Dome, and then they called me Dome, and then they called me Domer. Is that why we call you the Tacoma Dome?

And then they called me domer. We're gonna keep on. So maybe better to hat chat with the junk man. Take the same step as Take the umbrella. Don't talk to me.

Grab that umbrella, Lisa. Junk man. Yeah. That's probably a better idea. That the the junk collector is the only good person in this world.

I've I thought it was him and the girl who's getting the and handing out the flyers. Yes. Those are the 2 things. Argument I can make against the junk man is that he doesn't come forward earlier. But he's afraid because we're back to the old people aren't listened to.

Oh, sure. Sure. Sure. Sure. Yeah.

And the And he's about to. Doc. He's literally about to when he gets killed. That's true. Do Jun remembers this in between where he's like, oh, yeah.

I totally threw a giant rock at that chicken fucking killed her. He remembers it. The the isn't that where he remembers it? Is it I don't think he does he remember killing her? I'm almost sure.

When do we who is remembering it when we see him walk the path again and actually see him throw the rock and it hits her in the upper back and back of the head? It is it is the junk collector, which, again and this is on my phone. Well no. No. Because one of the cool things that this film does is we actually don't ever fully know what her son knows.

Right. Yeah. All an interpretation of. And I think the really interesting thing we're going back to the ageism thing and all this other stuff. She's known as Umma, and that is her her character name.

And he is only known as junk collector in the movie. Yeah. So there there are 2 people given titles by the thing that they do. The old people. Yeah.

The old people. Isn't that interesting? Because that's one of those things where when you're meeting somebody. So, what do you do? Like, that's one of those things that becomes kinda what you're defined by.

Chris? Just something you just touched on too, Moses, is the fact that his world is constantly being manipulated by the people around him. That he the son he he never actually gets to actually live in his memories in his world because everyone just tells him what happened. Right. And so that when he remembers a certain thing and then that she kind of fills in the gaps, she goes to the junk collector because she's really like, Oh, he's the dude who did it.

This old guy, he attempted to sexually assault this young girl and he ended up murdering her. But what he she discovers in this interviewinterrogation is that no, actually his her son did in fact commit the murder. And this guy witnessed all of it. Leading up to this thing is is we've talked about Laurel Palmer and David Lynch and all this stuff, and we go through her phone. Yeah.

She was fucking everybody. She had a good system going. Right. Like, that's the main the main big thing that is I I think, like, the they talk about somebody escaped from a sanitarium. They're talking about how all you have to do is give her rice crackers.

They're they're talk rice cakes. They're talking about all these, like, who it could be or why when they unpeel that onion is, like, holy shit. This could be a 1000000 people as you both, like, really put really well that it's like, we're actually seeing this other person's interpretation Mhmm. Like, of this thing. If the if if he's dead and the cops have this phone, they've got a 1000000 suspects.

Mhmm. What and that is definitely a twin peaks. Right? Because he she Laura Palmer, of course, was Sleeping with. Dating, seeing Multiple.

Flirting with multiple people. Yeah. And that is a great conceit as a writer because you're immediately opening so many doors. Yeah. Because all these, like, companions are, like, lovesick and crazy or obsessed or whatever their fucking malfunction is.

When we as audience too, like, I mean, it's obviously different in Twin Peaks. Big old spoiler. If you have not seen Twin Peaks, please stop listening right now. And maybe watch Mother. Watch Mother.

If you haven't watched Mother, I don't know why you're watch listening to this podcast. So obviously in I'll drive. In that series, it's her father. Right. Lara Palmer's father commits this horrendous crime.

And in this, it's what what I think is brilliant is it's the the person we all were told it was from the beginning. Yeah. I this is the mom fucking murders that junk collector guy with, like, a monkey wrench pretty fucking Okay. So, Moses, I'd love to know your interpretation of this moment because to me, I feel like, this is what I took away is that her impulsive violent response to what this man says is generationally it's passed to her son. Like that is what is a step like, this is the first time we really see it is that she has the same thing that he has which is like she will jump and be violent and then go into a fugue state or whatever happens and forget like, holy fuck, what did I just do?

And that's what I felt like was a spinous dance. Such a cool obviously, it's harsh to say it's a cool moment, but it's such a really powerful moment because we don't, a, typically see that from a female character. And then 2, at this point of the movie, we're playing house. Right? You've got mom and dad in the house, and this happens.

And, I mean, and the the the whole thing ends with the house being burned down. Right? Like, everything's destroyed. It allows us to open up as an interpretation about what happened to his dad. Yeah.

Right. Right? Right. Was that his dad? Woah.

Was she? Woah. Wow. Yeah. I'll drive.

But what also is really fascinating about that is what you're what you're saying is, like, oh, you know, we're atypically see this in sins of the father, but to see it as sins of the mother is really. Yeah. And also back to the vanity thing. Right? The same thing that triggers her son.

Right? It's it's, again, the vanity thing. My son could never have done this thing. Right. It's it's, yeah, it's really it's a really powerful moment, the violence of it.

And, again, the the reflection of blood, the thing that we're covering up, and now just everything is folded in on itself. And the blood is, like, almost just looks like mud? It almost looks like oil. It's it's Yeah. Brain blood.

It's, like, essentially black. Yeah. Yeah. It's dark and the way it's mixing with the dirt, and she's so frantic and doesn't obviously, like, the only answer here is to burn the place down. And when she does burn it, like, the way the days start to turn on the calendar and stuff, it's one of those things where you you watch the, the beauty of fire, like, for a couple moments there where you're like, fuck, man.

I understand why, like, I I always love, like, just sitting and watching a campfire. Like, this is, like, that, like, a fucked up moment to feel that kind of feeling. It was really weird. You're watching life and destruction at the same time. Yeah.

And then mom back in the field and then gets picked up by the cops. Right. And we we assume right? We wrongly assume that she's being picked up by the cops because obviously, she killed a man. She fucking murdered somebody.

His house then, but we find out that there was another dude that JP. Had been yeah. Escaped from the sanatorium. Yeah. Jurassic Park.

He had been he had been, Get off my wife. What? Not even what? He had Life finds a way. He had some blood on.

And what I think is we forgot to mention this moment because Nosebleeds. The nosebleed is so well it's such a great little bread crumb. We see her get a nosebleed at a point. And that he's like, he this dude has blood on him that and he's like, it's a nosebleed. Because the girl who gets murdered, her nosebleeds when she fucks?

Well, he she says nosebleeds. My wife is nosebleeds. Said it was oh, I thought it was no. They the cops do think it's because it's her blood on him. That's the evidence.

Yeah. Right. And But what we got is nosebleed. Yeah. She just gets nosebleed.

I thought somebody I thought there was some specific reason. No, Paul. You're right. He says he says say that her her blood was on him. Yeah.

It must have been that's the best evidence we have. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And he says the reason her, it happened to rape?

No. No. The boyfriend says or JP says it was because they were having sex and her nose blood. Right. Which is definitely what happened.

Sure. Okay. But that just happens. Like, Jessica's nosebleeds, like, we'll just be sitting there doing nothing. I should be like, ah, and run-in the bathroom.

It happens all the fucking time. Well, Doojun, oh, man. The the meeting between the mom and JP Oh, man. Is so rough. I mean, it's like Doojun gets out, gets a tofu cake or whatever.

At this point, she knows he's innocent. Well and she talks to them, and she's like, do you have parents? And he's like, no. Mom, I'm not. And she it just starts kinda bawling, but then I think, like, happiness overwhelms her or a sense of relief or something.

She seems overwhelmed. She knows that this is a guy that she can she's this is a guy she can pin this on. Well yeah. But the the thing that's, like, tough for me is it's like she seems like she has this sense of, like, relief, but a sense of guilt that it's like, oh, someone that's in a much worse situation than my son is gonna become, like, a ward of the state or in prison or or institutionalized. And he But, like, I don't care.

Yeah. Right. What'd you say? It it's he's not pretty like her son. Right?

And pretty. Yeah. And I also take that extra interpretation. You don't have parents to protect you the way I'm protecting you. Yeah.

Nobody's gonna come and save you. My kid's safe. And it wrecks her, though. I think Right. I I interpret that as she's so destroyed because your mom would be here to protect you, and she's not.

Right. Protecting mice. Like, it's just all of that in that Yeah. In that moment. Yeah.

Well, Du Jun goes back, has a sleepover with mom, and then goes through the junk collector's rubble with the homies, and guess what he finds? Needles. Needles. Back to the future too. Needles.

I'm gonna take care of this, man. You know, I always take care of it. Look. Needles. And then he hits a a dope bass riff.

Dude, it's so good. Californication. But she gets mom gets on the bus and finds her, prime meridian in her inner left thigh and, like, makes the decision where she's like, oh, man. Ignorance is bliss and pops her thigh and Dances the night away. And jumps up and starts dancing with everybody.

Party bus is fucking, like, Daft Punk levels of It's like a parents getaway bus or something. If that's what elderly people are doing these days, sign me up. Party and party and, yeah, party and We also need to go back to just when he finds the needles, and it makes us as an audience question just how much he knows was aware of every Yeah. And that's Yes. That's just, that's the, like, the twisting of the knife, the salt in the wounds.

Yeah. Because he berates her much like a parent would. Right? And the but the way he does it so simply and and there's something that I I find really fascinating about his performance. How I don't wanna use the word dumb, but I'll use it in in the context of the movie.

Like, is he actually dumb, or is he playing dumb? Or is it both? Yeah. Or is it both? Right?

But, like, is he aware of how he's seen? I believe he is. I feel like it's a little bit of both. I I think at times. I I think sometimes he remembers more or it's almost like a pathological thing or I'm not Or what can he get away with by playing dumb here?

Yeah. I think that it's a brilliant performance in that capacity. Does anybody else think that potentially whatever he drank when he was 5 that apparently had him puking and shitting water for 2 days is potentially what caused some sort of damage to him? Sunny d. Right?

Soda, purple stuff. Oh, shit. Sunny d. Alright. Yeah.

Yeah. It might have been the purple stuff. She was definitely giving him something that was, messing with his mental. I I do yeah. I I do agree though.

Or I I I do think that this is her, like, deleting, like, a file. Well, like I said, I think there's I love that. But just to talk on what you were saying real and I brought it up earlier. There is a bit of Munchausen by proxy here. Right?

Oh, agreed. She is treating him like this slow child and he is going to keep acting that way. She is constantly enabling and babying. Yeah. And like if he is going to get what he needs to from that relationship, then he is just going to keep going.

And I think obviously he is not up to speed with a lot of, like, where he should be at his age. But, He's 27 or something, I think. Late 27. Yeah. I I don't know.

But the final mode I the the the dance on the bus It's over a minute, I think. It goes for so long. And it's so oh, but don't we we get a flash for hold on. We skip the moment where we see the field again. Right?

Right where she says So so I I guess I didn't realize other than the field and a couple other things that I did. But there are beats that are hit in different ways multiple times. That's something that I guess that's landing on me pretty hard as we're coming to the, finish of the movie here and about into the re ranking. That definitely some of the tonal stuff in the music or whatever still, but, like, man, there's just some stuff that's landing on me harder, different. I please don't make me go first.

I need a moment. Yeah. Please. And I'll I'll close out that thought too in terms of, like, there's something really cool about vehicles not bringing you away from problems. Right?

So giant bus, no different than all the other vehicles that have done things in the movie that we've seen so far. Right? Like, does she actually forget, or is she just lying herself? Is this whole thing because I wanna believe personally, and this is the beauty of this type of art is, like, I wanna believe that when she gave him the medicine, if you will, or the stuff to kill him, that it was because she knew something was off, and this was her way of not having him live. Because, again, I think her vanity was through her son.

Yeah. So I think that she wanted to kill him because she didn't want him to live a life where he was seen as lesser. Because he was other. Yeah. Yeah.

And then here, you know, that's why that culmination her she has to believe that her child is this perfect. Yeah. And her reaction to, you know, when when he remembers it, how can you remember something like that? Like, there's just something really brutal, but because it is her one sin. It's never brought up that this awful man that, you know, wasn't worth nothing, and he's gone now.

Right? Like, it's about her taking care of her kid, and the one brutal sin that she holds on to is this thing. And even then when she thinks about it, it's about her wanting to protect her son. And I think that it's just yet she's willing to kill her son to protect her son. And, you know, she you know, I I thought about that moment in the same way that I didn't understand it.

And especially now as a father, I I get it a little bit more, which is, you know, I always thought it was a strange selfish thing when you're if something happens on the airplane and the, the air pops down, you have to cover yourself first. Mhmm. Right? And I think in the same way, like, her logic was, I will make sure that he's dead, and I will follow him immediately after. Interesting.

That same kind of logic. So I I personally interpret that as she wanted to kill him because she knew something was wrong. Right. He's 5 at that point. Exactly.

I was reaching a bit. But it's but I think we're allowed to. I think we're allowed to, you know that's the kind of the beauty of of of cinema and and stories stories that our, lord willing, thought about before they were made. This is the beauty of hiring writers to write a thing and then making the thing Wait. Wait.

Wait. Wait. Wait. I'm under the understanding that studio execs have the ability to make these stories on their own. Look, I'm writing I'm gonna write a movie for you right now.

Guy works at a mundane job. He really doesn't like it. He finds out that he is in fact one special dude that is gonna save the entire universe. A guy Wait. Hold on.

Is he a white guy? He is. Okay. Great. I'm on board.

Okay. And basically he gets pulled into another dimension by a really cool girl that he's super into and they have to stop this guy. Is this Lego movie or Matrix? It's both. Oh.

Are they both the chosen one? Are they both the chosen one? They're both they're both Chris Chris Pratt Pratt, Macauley Coli. We've talked about this movie ad nauseam. If you're still with us, let's find out what our final rankings are.

Moses, what order are we in? I'll I'll I'll start it off, and then we'll let, you can go next, and we'll let Paul close it out. Reverse order. I like it. Okay.

Cool. So I will I will say I'm exactly where I was before. Just like the film, we have bookended perfectly. I'm still a 4.5. I thought I might wait I thought I might wiggle.

I I like to wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle. Yeah. And I just I I I think I'm gonna go to 4.5 rocks. Mhmm. I'm at I'm at 4 4a half giant rocks that will kill somebody.

4. I give it 4 needles. I do y'all make some really good points. There are some things that, like, there are some things that don't land for me just because of, like, my tastes or preferences or whatever. The movie's fucking great, and I kinda stopped myself a couple times just because I've done it already.

That performance, is like something else. It's one of those things where it's like, I wanna rewatch this movie, but it it's hit certain chords where it's almost like I don't want to. It's a great movie, but and I love you. But it makes me so mad at you. Makes me so mad at you.

Moses, I wanna thank you for giving us so much of your time and your wisdom. If people wanna see things you've done or follow you in any capacity, what how can they do that? Yeah. Thank you so much. And I I I gotta say thank you both of you for having me.

This is like I said, this is my happy play. This is my getting this is great. Thank you. Yeah. This is my acupuncture needle on my day of of joy in this.

If you wanna find me, yeah, I it's holy Moses because I'm a smart aleck writer guy. So it's w h o l l y, Moses, at virtually, you know, most of the socials, I think, Letterbox, whatever is remaining of Twitter, Instagram, and all those things. Not on Facebook. You could probably find work that I, have done online. I think like most artists that takes themselves too seriously, I don't want you to see it, but it's out there.

There's there's laurels and stuff on it, and, we are obviously, y'all know Brandon really well, so I'm working on a Nightwing straight with Brandon. That's He's directing Nightwing. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Wrote and directed going through that. And, there's some other stuff that I'm really excited about, but I don't want to put the cart before said hers. So Next time. Not talk about yeah.

Next time time. I'll be able to brag about it. Next time. And you can follow us on Instagram at reviewx2podcast. And if you listen to this podcast and you're not following Jamie Henwood and Matthew Foskett or you don't appreciate their work, then unsubscribe and go away.

Yeah. If you're listening to this right now, go follow Jamie Henwood immediately on Instagram and you will just be delighted. At big time bopper is, Matthew Foskett. I'm at Paul acts badly on Letterboxd reviewx2podcast on Instagram. Clap for Moses, everybody.

You are officially the longest episode. I apologize. No. No. No.

No. Don't apologize. I had the best time. Yeah. We can't wait to have you back.

Thank you everyone for listening. We'll see you in 2024 after the retro Spectacus. Sure. Review, review. Retro Spectacus.

Happy holidays. We've talked about this. Happy holidays everyone. Happy holidays. Go watch Mother.

Happy holidays. Okay. I'm going to press this button now.