YCR 4 - Her / ….? (Awards Special! Guest: Rachael Fosket)

AKA: Her-minator Review: JudgmentSode
Your fourth YCR (YOU choose episode), this time for Academy Awards weekend! Actor/Writer/cool cat Rachael Perrell Fosket joins us in the algorithm to discuss the finer points of....Her (2013 D. Spike Jonze) Starring: Joaquin Phoenix, Amy Adams, and Scarlett Johansson. Are you more down for The Office or The IT Crowd? Are dead cats off limits in intimate situations? How excited would you be if we were joined by 1000x Arnold Schwarzenegger's claiming different states of residency? The Illuminati sets a trap, and a moment of reflection on Howard the Duck. Don't be afraid, stay calm, there's nothing to worry about (This Episode Description written by Ai)

Plot: In a near future, a lonely writer develops an unlikely relationship with an operating system designed to meet his every need.

2hrs 27mins
“Back In Jury” ad written by: Ben Burris and Paul Root*

Transcript

And then sometimes I'll just talk as a normal person. You have to speak like Paul. Hey. Hey. Who?

Would you eat the moon if it were made of cheese? It's a simple question, doctor. Well, we just spiked everything. Whenever you would like to, Paul, you may introduce this program. No.

Now it feels good. Hi. I'm Paul. Hello, everybody. My name is Ben.

And we have someone else with us. It's me, Rachael. Rachael's back. Oh, my goodness. Hi.

So exciting. I hit the mic. Happens all the time. Off to a good start. Thanks.

Rachael Foskett is back with with us on our 2 Wong Fu Thanks for Everything Julie Newmar episode as we do what we do here as you already know. But just in case for the 100 or maybe thousands of new listeners that are here, because that's right. Right? Yeah. I think we get several 1,000 listeners That's right.

Every new episode. Yeah. We take movies that are 7 years old or older, normally brought to us by a guest, but this is a special episode. This is our you choose the review episode for Oscar season. We threw out some past Oscar nominees Yeah.

For best picture that Ben and I both had on secret lists on Letterboxd. And this is a little unlock for you, potential future guest. If you pick from those lists, it supersedes any rules about the show. In terms of how old it is, how long it is, if it's the 4th movie in a franchise, There are movies that you can cherry pick from that list that supersede all the rules. Because what are the rules here?

There are no rules. There are no fucking rules. But normally a movie that is 7 years old or older that a guest has strong feelings about, And in this case, the movie is, Her? Her? Her.

Her egg? Her. Bland. She's really funny. Let's hope so.

We're gonna take 20 thirteen's Her and go through all the things and the other About it. The other choices that the people had were True Grit. Coen Brothers True Grit. Coen Brothers True Grit. The hustler?

Hustler. What was the last one? It was one of your list. He, him, same thing. I don't remember the other one.

But Oh my gosh. We're just got down to True Grit and Her. Sad. It's funny. True Grit and Her were Ben's picks.

Oh. And The Hustler and The one you can't remember. Who gives a shit? What is it? Were mine, and I got moided.

I hate to do this. Let's see if my I hate that you're doing it. We have to put this on on pause because it's gonna drive me absolutely insane. It's okay. You edit this, Paul.

Do do. Empire of the Sun. Oh, Christian Bale. Yeah. I wonder why people don't wanna see that one.

Seniors still, but yeah. I hadn't watched that since, junior high. Long, long time for me as well. Maybe people just wanted an upper. Oh, well, mission failed.

Or was it? We'll see. We'll see. Drama. Opinion.

Rachel, while you're here, is there anything that you wanna talk about? You're an actor, writer Human. A human. Yeah. Non AI person?

No. I mean, I'm oh, actually, yeah. I've been telling everybody lately that I've gotten really into I mean, I know that we're supposed to be acting and writing and being creative, and I am. Okay. But I'm very excited because I've recently reintroduced myself to Spaghetti Westerns.

Oh. Hello. Getting really into Sergio Leone. Cool. Yeah.

I got this great book that kind of breaks down how impactful they were to Hollywood cinema Mhmm. With regard not just to cinema, but music, globalization. There's this really sweet anecdote about, one of the actors and the difference between acting in Italy and acting in in Hollywood is that you actually were seen as an equal. You could go up to Elizabeth Taylor or Burton and have a coffee with them. And he's like, you can never do that.

You can never, like, sit with the great directors or writers of our time in Hollywood, but you could do that in the sixties in Italy. So it's just that's very interesting. Anyways, that's what I'm doing. What are you guys doing? That's very cool.

Ben, how are you? I knew it. I knew he was gonna ask me first. I was thinking about doing it first, and I didn't do it. Silly.

Silly. He didn't he was too quick on the draw. He was too quick on the draw. He was he did the the fistful of dynamite on you and Yeah. Yeah.

Oh. And then I'm gonna hide it. It's a It's a wound right here by my outline on the side, and I'm gonna hide it for like 3 acts, and you won't know. Oh, cool. And then I'm just gonna slowly die.

I like that. I am doing okay. I have not been shot, which is Bonus. Real bonus. Yeah.

It's not. Aw. You can cut that. Yep. We'll test out what Ben said.

Pretty high. I'm getting going to Arizona this weekend. I just went to Arizona. That's what I heard. Arizona.

We drove there. Are you driving? Yeah. We're going to visit my wife's family Same. In Phoenix.

Not your not it's not what I You're visiting my wife's family. Same. In Phoenix. Not your not it's not what I You're visiting my wife's family. Surprise.

I'm I visited my husband's family. Oh. Yeah. It was nice weather. We didn't get the rain.

It's weirdly green. I've never seen Phoenix this green before. They must have got some of the atmospheric river. I didn't know that that was a thing. I didn't know that atmospheric rivers were a thing.

I just thought that that was California's way of saying it's raining. That's what it turned out to be for me. Yeah. Where it's like, yeah, it's raining. It's a real thing that just, like, travels in a stream in the air.

Kinda cool. I had no idea. I had no idea that there was rivers above us. Again, to me, it still just seems like, oh, yeah. Clouds.

It's raining. Well, yeah. We're from Washington. Yeah. Washington.

As I will be. I'm alright, I guess. Like, I had a literal setback back a backpack setback back. I'm angry. I'm angry, to be absolutely honest.

How do you feel? I feel like I've gone backward in time in terms of, like, how I've been feeling the last little while. I'm just very physically uncomfortable, and it's very discouraging. Man. So How much of history do you know?

Oh, no. Whatever the Simpsons taught me. The Bart. The. What?

You know what? We get so excited we get to play this every time, so please share this with Matt. Hey, Matt. Hey, Matt. It's been woven through other episodes.

Hey, Matt. Matt. My husband. Matt. Okay.

Other people love this as well. It's just such a good little, like, catchy jingle. It's so great. Yeah. Folks, what are we watching?

Don't make me go first. We already know Rachel though has been watching Spaghetti Western, so there has to be something else. We almost did Wild Bunch recently, by the way. We can't be very close. Can't do that.

Oh, glory show up. He chose poorly. God. We had 2 choices, and we chose poorly. Yeah.

He chose. We did the Casino Royale from 67, and we did not have a good time. That's a very offensive movie and it's really so much. You know what? A lot of careful Bond movies careful.

Uh-huh. Are not good. Offensive. Yeah. And offensive and, like, awkward and You're in the you're in a safe pocket to say that.

Great. They're really racist and sexist and aggressive, but super fun to watch. Yeah. They can't share it's like View to a Kill, the Roger Moore one when he's essentially, like, he's like a 60 year old man and he's, like, with a 22 year old and they're, like, what's happening? Oh, I hit my microphone.

Oh, twins. Now it's Paul's turn. Jo, what are you watching? We're watching her. Her?

Well, yeah. Okay. Yeah. We all watched her. Wait.

Wait. Her? Egg? But what are you watching other than that? Oh, well, I've been watching a lot.

I watched Leviathan. I don't know. Okay. Oh, man. It's a it's a fun one.

It's very silly. Movie, series, It features Robocop and Peter Weller, baby. Oh, yeah. Okay. Doctor Peter Weller.

And he is in he is leading a team of engineers. Are are they engineers? Deep sea explorers Like, people that are miners. Miners, deep deep sea miners who accidentally kind of fall into a old ship that turns out to be diseased with mutants. Okay.

They accidentally drink the mutants and horror ensues. Lots of practice. Sounds like event horizon, but in the water. It's alien meets I can't remember. The thing.

The abyss? That is exactly what it was. Alien meets the thing. That is what the movie was directly in my wheelhouse. Someone watched it.

How'd you feel about it, Rachel? I loved it until the last scene. It's rough. The very the very very end, I was like, no. Why?

You don't like the Peter Weller throwing the dynamite right into the What year was it? Even that was okay. Fuck you. What year was it? 88.

Something like that. Late eighties. 888. But it's it's George p Cosmatos, I think, directed it. The same person who did Tombstone.

Well, unless if we're talking about Kurt Russell who apparently actually did that. But I watched the original Tombstone, my darling Clementine Okay. And Henry Ford. Okay. Okay.

Henry Ford. Yeah. I mean, I know. Henry Fonda. I'm sorry.

Henry Fonda. That makes more sense. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Good. You know, when I was in college, well, I had a class that was, the end of the western. Oh. And we watched movies that were deemed sort of the movies that were the beginning of the end.

Scorsese says that Peckinpah was the last of the western. I think the concept of this, at least what we were going over, is sort of what movies were subverting that that got to the point where the tropes were so subverted that it was, like, we're no longer even in the same genre. Question. Do you guys agree that Escape from LA is a western? Oh, I'd have to rewatch it.

I think it might be. And not New York? I haven't seen Escape from New York. I think they both have kind of, like, a similar attitude. I think Snake Plissken is just, like, is kind of like a western style anti hero.

Yeah. And he is like the black hole of, like, gravity in those two movies, like, where everything kinda he's the vessel for anything and everything through those. Yeah. So, yeah, I I think I get what you're saying. Yeah.

As I was watching it, I was like, I've been watching a lot of westerns. I'm like, this is like a Clint Eastwood character. This is Yeah. Very silly, but also very enjoyable to watch. And I like the the anti hero aspect of it and nobody's good and nobody's bad sort of a Mhmm.

Situation. I really like Escape from New York, like, a lot. I think that movie is great. Movies? Are they on your list, Paul?

The Escape movies? The I know there are a couple John Carpenters on there, but no. Not the escape movies. Okay. I don't think those are movies that I need to revisit to know how I feel, especially not New York, but also especially not LA.

It's very silly. It's a very it could be a Steven Seagal film. But there is an appearance by Bruce Campbell. Yes. Which is pretty damn.

Why? It's just As the surgeon general of the Blockbuster. It's been since I rented those movies from the Blockbuster. Oh. Oh.

Yeah. What are you guys watching? I, you looked at me, am watching older stuff. Ben, do you wanna go before me? Are you gonna talk about something we watch together or no?

No. No. You weren't going to? No. I wasn't.

But I would love for you to talk about it. Paul and I and our friend, Bruce Burrito, AKA Ben Burris. Oh, sorry. There's no that was the intended yeah. You were good.

Don't apologize. Bruce Burrito will be making more appearances on this program, potentially. That's the plan. Does he does he eat burritos on the show? Is that a thing?

Is that what what is it? Well, now he does. Oh, boy. Is that a thing? Can we do that?

Well, now that's in the bit. Yeah. He's gonna have to be eating a huge grande burrito. Bean, cheese And then you're just gonna, like, hear his stomach throughout. And the chips and the beans and the rice.

We went to a improv show. We went inside dinosaur improv, which is Yeah. Paul Scheer and Jason Menzoukis' troop. It's amazing. Which is great and very funny.

And Bunch of the folks from Righteous Gemstones. Oh, cool. And I love Tim Boltz. I laughed the hardest I've laughed in a long time. Good.

That's Tim Boltz had me rolling. That's such a good feeling. But the weird part was after it was over, Paul Scheer was like, okay. We have a surprise for everybody. So here he is, the goat of comedy Adam Sandler.

No way. And Adam Sandler just walks out with his dog, Bagel, his little chubby dog. Giant. This huge bulldog. Right now.

Beautiful dog. And he just did, like, 25 minutes of Stand up. Working working on jokes. Yeah. And I looked it up later and saw that he's, shooting a special that, one of the Safdie brothers is directing this week.

So he was just working on material for that. Oh, that's cool. So you you have you know what it is. We know some of it. We think, anyway.

We'll see if he's done it. Say it now. Say it now. What it what it what it is. Spoiler alert.

I'm sorry. Spoiler alert. I just, like, the mic. Sidebar, I heard that the Safdie brothers broke up question mark. Oh.

Oh, I've heard that too. Is it a oh, I don't know. It's a real bummer. Yeah. Especially as Benny who's the one that was in the curse?

More into acting. What? Who's the is that the one that's in the curse? Is Benny? Yeah.

Yeah. And in Oppenheimer? Yeah. Yeah. Oppenheimer, by the way, winner of best ensemble cast at the SAG Awards, was on this program.

And in that film and part of that SAG winning ensemble cast in Oppenheimer, Jessica Aaron Martin. Yeah. Wow. Holy shit. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. She will Sorry. This wasn't about me. Oh, wow. It's okay.

Well, it's like we all watched the same statue, but she does get a certificate. Which is pretty dope. I mean, that's cool. That's really cool. I stole a magazine from the floor of the show.

Nice. Yeah. Frame it. It's the same. Yeah.

Immortalize it. Paul, what are you watching? I rewatched Conan the Barbarian and Conan the Destroyer. And I just wanna say, Conan the Barbarian is great. It's a 3 and a half crowns or whatnot.

Does he why do you keep saying Arizona? I just love to say it like that. I don't know. Arizona. It's just a personal insane person.

Get out. Get your ass to Arizona. Get your ass to Arizona. This is me in Arizona coming to the camera. I something that in the early eighties is hanging on to a lot of things that are very seventies.

It's very, like, machismo. It's very aggression fueled, etcetera. And the second one is goes from an r rated movie with people getting decapitated to a PG movie that if PG 13 existed, it would have gotten it for sure. But, like, lighter, and it feels more like a D and D adventure. The second one?

Yeah. I had a lot of fun with it. I would also rate that like a 3a half. I remember always kinda feeling like, this is fine. I don't whatever.

I watched it on the arrow 4 k and had a blast. It was really fun. Is the destroyer I might be getting my, like, Conan type films. Was a woman from, Wayne's World in the Destroyer film? To your career?

Yeah. I think she was in a movie called Cull the Conqueror Yeah. With Kevin Sorbo. Yeah. Destroyer has Olivia Diabo and Grace Jones and Wilt Chamberlain.

Grace Jones. And, like, it's just a this wild assembly of folks, and it's a really fun movie, but also the premise of, like Mace Jones. Spike Jones. Sorry. K.

Spike Jones. Yeah. The idea of, like, alright. We've gotta protect the princess's virginity. Let's get Arnold Schwarzenegger and Wilt Chamberlain.

And then you're like, wait. What? Wait. Mission failed. It's not gonna work out.

But the movie overall, I just wanted to watch, like, some sword and sorcery movies or whatnot. I just wanna be a champ for Conan the destroyer. I don't know. I just I had a pretty that. Pretty great time.

Wasn't there or is there still wasn't there, like, a pitch to do a new Conan with, like, old Arnold? Yeah. I think it was called, like, crown of iron or something like that, but I think that's falling apart at this point. But I don't know because it's been it was talked about for a very long time. Yeah.

Good for him. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Pretty neat.

Well, now that we've gotten to this point, we know what everybody was watching, how everybody's doing. Let's talk about some facts. K. Archaeology is the search for facts. Alright.

So we, 3 Amigos? Amigos. We watched the movie Her. Her? This was, Annapurna stage 6 Warner Brothers distributed.

2013 movie, it's rated r, and it is, 2 hours and 6 minutes. Paul has his hand raised. Yes, Paul? Just wanna make sure this was the thing I wanted to talk about that I forgot earlier. Oh, right.

We're noting where it says Warner Brothers distribution. And, basically, what that means is Annapurna on stage 6 paid for this movie to be made. Yeah. This is an independent movie. Mhmm.

And Warner Brothers bought the movie from those companies, profit shared and whatever the the movie made moving forward, and distributed the movie under their banner, which helps them in terms of prestige or whatnot. But let's say if this movie had won best picture, the folks at Annapurna essentially would have been handed that Oscar. So not a studio movie. This one has studio distribution. The you might not know this.

It might be inside baseball, but does Warner Brothers pay for the campaign? For the Oscar, like, the awards campaign? I'm almost certain. I fit I I don't know if that's standard, like, if that's, like, a canned thing in a contract or how that hammers out. Yeah.

The budget for this movie is 23,000,000. Adjusted, that is 30,410,000, which I just have to say that that goes a long way in this movie. It does. It it looks very expensive. It looks great.

Opening weekend was December 18, 2013. That was a limited and then festival's wide release was January 10, 2014. So, basically, they did that so they could get Oscar nominated. Got that consideration. Oh, hey.

Worked out. Yeah. It made 7,600,000 in the US, adjusted 10,000,000. Final gross, North America, 25,600,000 adjusted. That is 33.9.

Final Girls Worldwide, 48,500,000 adjusted. That is 64.2. Other releases this weekend, the Legend of Hercules With The Rock, Dwayne The Rock Johnson. Johnson. Playing Misty for me, that was that was released in 1970 one.

We can top 5, Lone Survivor, Frozen, The Wolf of Wall Street, American Hustle, and The Legend of Hercules. Top 5 films this year, Frozen, Iron Man 3, Despicable Me 2, The Hobbit Desolation of Smaug, The Hunger Games Catching Fire. All but one of those was a sequel. Other films from 2013, The Purge, Anchorman 2, The Legend Continues, Olympus Has Fallen, White House Down. Same movie.

Same movie. Grown Ups 2, After Earth. Sorry. Welcome to After Earth. This is Get off my wife.

This is such an interesting list of films. Pacific Rim. It is really it's a it's a time capsule. Oh, because but I also don't associate them in the same like, I for some reason, her seems so much after these films. It seems a lot more modern and mature Yeah.

And, like, austere than GI Joe Retaliation. I don't know what you're talking about. Case in point. Again, I think most of those were sequels, if not no. I guess Olympus in Or franchises, something.

Yeah. IP. Oh, Pacific Rim was If you had to pick 1, Olympus Has Fallen or White House Down, which are basically Die Hard movies. Which one's the Morgan Freeman one? I don't know.

That one. Yeah. One's Morgan Freeman and one's Aaron Eckhart. Morgan the Morgan Freeman one. Oh, yeah.

Morgan. Wait. No. Morgan Freeman is the vice president. I don't know.

I didn't neither of them grabbed me. I don't know. Letterboxd average for this movie is 4. You can follow me at on Letterboxd at run bmc, and maybe you'll find my list, maybe. Oh, at paul x badly might have a little list for you too.

Rachel. Also may have lists. Cool. Who knows? Maybe.

Do you know your letterbox handle off the top? Rachel Perelle Foskett, maybe? Why do they follow you? I don't know. Why don't you follow me?

I I don't know. Do I? I don't know. This I won't cut. I want you 2 to be having this personal curse.

I'm so sorry. Wait. Why am I sorry? I'm trying not to do any other social media but Letterbox. Same.

No. I've created a buffer account so that I don't go on my Instagram, but I'll still post. Because I said, I want people to know I'm alive. What are we doing? Anytime you want someone to know you're alive, you can text me or whatever.

Don't worry about it. This is a great conversation to talk about the themes of this movie. Right? Yeah. Glenn Kenny for ebert.com gave it 3.5 out of 4, and Rotten Tomatoes has a 94%, Metacritic, 91.

Major award wins and nominations. It got 5 Oscar norms including best picture, best score, and it won best screenplay by Spike Jonzz. Jonzz. Paul Jaman. You are up.

I'm jamming. Here we go. The director of this film was Spike Johns. He directed a previous episode of ours adaptation. You'll never know.

Being John Malkovich, Where the Wild Things Are, and a shitload of amazing music videos. Yeah. The that list is long and distinguished. Writer also, Spike Jonze. He wrote on, contributed to the writing on every single movie in the Jackass series.

How? No. What needs writing in that? It could maybe conceptualizing stuff or what? I'm not sure.

But, yeah, he has writer credit on every single one. Interior, Jim. A large man is running on a treadmill wearing a The lizard for a cock piece made a fun fat sorry. Continue. Of of of plastic wrap, and then they had to drink the sweat that was collected.

That was a real bit in Jackass. Award winning. I think it is. We that makes a lot of sense though because when he was trying to woo Sofia Coppola, he he once picked her up at a airport airport in a fat suit with grease smothered all over his face to look like he was, like, sweaty. He thought that would and, you know, they ended up getting married.

They were married for a few years. It worked. That's wild. Yeah. Good job, buddy.

Gotta swing. Right? We've said it. Gotta swing. The director of photography was Hoyt Van Hoytma.

My heart. Oppenheimer. Hoyt is just fucking on some next level shit. That's all I'm gonna say. At Astra, that is the movie for me when we start talking about photography.

Boy, oh, boy, that's a pretty movie. Nope, the movie. Yeah. I'm not saying nope to my own thing, my own opinion. Just cause everybody looked at me like they disagreed.

Oh, I got you. I got you. Was Owen Pallet. Dream scenario, which I haven't seen. Has anybody been you've seen it?

I saw that. That was great. I wanna see that. Nick Cage, baby. Yeah.

I'm always down for a cage match. The box from 2009, on the court and the Canadian rock pop pop rock rock rock? Rock pop? The Arcade Fire. I love it.

Producers, Spike Jonze, Schenectady, New York, The Fall, which we've talked about on this program, was brought to us by award winner, Jessica Aaron Martin. Just not a big deal. Yeah. You really you get it. I feel like every single time her her name is mentioned, we should, like, have, like, award theme music.

I should I put something like a Yeah. That's award theme music? Like, like fireworks going no. It's for the it's award theme for podcast. It's this That's award music.

Podcast. Awards. Oh, that was good. That's award music? Samantha Morton.

Her producing resume seems to be this movie, and we're gonna talk about that a little bit more momentarily. Acting wise, Minority Report and The Whale. Megan Ellison produced Booksmart and The Master. Joaquin Phoenix was Theodore, Gladiator, Walk the Line, We Own the Night. Scarlett Johansson was Samantha.

Ghost World, Matchpoint, Jojo Rabbit. Amy Adams was Amy, American Hustle. Arrival, Tallaghtaga Nights, The Ballad of Ricky Bobby. Rooney Mara, Katherine. Carol, the girl with the dragon tattoo, women talking.

Ben, are you gonna scold me for not putting social network? No. But have you seen women talking? Because it's great. No.

I shouldn't. Jamie Adams for drop tick gorgeous. Oh, I love that movie. I should've. You got scolded around here.

Hoisted by my own pajent. Pajamas. That was a bit. Hoisted by my own pajamas. How's it for each?

It's me. Chris Pratt. Oh, yeah. Chris Pratt. No.

It's me. Paul. Chris Pratt. Paul. Jurassic World.

Jurassic World Fallen Kingdom. Jurassic World Dominion. Anybody noticing a theme? Why? Why?

Why? Why? Why? Why would you bring those movies up? Why would you do that to me?

You've seen We saw that in the theater and we But you told me that No. Did no? I misunderstood. I hate you. I apologize.

Olivia Wilde was blind date. Babylon, Rush, Tron legacy. Rachel? Hold on. Before we get to those fun facts, I need to mention 2 little cameos in this.

Oh, please. These are voice cameos. Oh, yeah. When he's called us a sex line, one of them is Bill Hader. Yes.

Who was like, I want you to tear me apart. No. And then sex kitten is Kristen Wiig. So great. But also, I was I thought it was interesting.

Fun fact is that Olivia Wilde, didn't she direct or do something with Booksmart? She directed it. Mhmm. Thank you. Yeah.

I thought that was cool. Fun facts. This film was nominated for best pick, as we know, along with 12 Years A Slave, American Hustle, Captain Phillips, Dallas Buyers Club, Gravity, Nebraska, and The Wolf of Wall Street. I maybe I think I don't know if I ever wanna see 12 Years A Slave Again? Again.

But also, like, I think maybe probably the right movie won that year, maybe. Yeah. We'll see. K. Wait, what?

Oh, your opinions are speaking for themselves. We'll see. We'll talk. Alright. Okay.

Stuck in the editing product process with his early a 150 minute cut, Spike Jones asked Steven Soderbergh to edit down with his instincts. Soderbergh came back with within 24 hours with a 90 minute cut, which helped Jones make the final version, which ran a 126 minutes. It's incredible. Took him only a day to be like, alright, here we go. No.

Yeah. Did it. Charlie Kaufman performed minor uncredited rewrites of the film. Samantha Morton was the original voice of Samantha, who I love Samantha Morton. Mhmm.

And on the set with Joaquin Phoenix daily. Oh, that's heartbreaking. After filming wrapped and Spike Jonze started editing the movie, he felt like something was not right. With Morton's blessing, he decided to recast the role and oh, that's nice that he got her blessing with Scarlett Johansson and was brought in to replace Martin, rerecording all the dialogue. I wanna say something about that real quick.

K. Because either it's the way that ScarJo performed that voice over or it's just Joaquin Phoenix's performance because it's seamless. Yeah. It is. It is.

Acting with each other. It is perfect. Yeah. Yeah. Both of them.

I I I think that's not either. I think it's Both. I think it's actually 3 people. Yeah. Four people.

I think it's Spike Jonze directing really well. Mhmm. I think that it's Samantha Morton. I mean, if you see her, everything that she does is makes you Yeah. She's incredible.

So much heart. And then Scarlett Johansson has this voice that has all of the emotions. Anyways, my opinion is seeping through. Most of the city backgrounds were filmed in Shanghai. You can see identifiable skyscrapers such as the Shanghai World Financial Center, and there are even some visible signage in Chinese if you look clear carefully.

I did actually notice that. Yeah. I did too. At one point, it did I but it's like it didn't really bother me. I was like, LA is such an international city.

Yeah. And this was like a alt universe futuristic version Yeah. Of LA though. Of a disgusting city. Yeah.

So normally, Rachel, can I ask you to put your phone down? Is that okay? Because normally we'd ask somebody to read the log line. Yeah. Could you get off Instagram, Rachel?

And I was like, Rachael, I asked you specifically to be on this episode for partly because we love you and you're great. And I was like, I memorized the log line of this film, but Partly because, like, you were a strike captain. You can we can talk about AI a little bit, etcetera. You maybe have some inside baseball thoughts about that, but Rachel's like, I memorized it. But I I was like, I wasn't even gonna ask you to do it this time.

I memorized it. I got it. A lonely writer develops an unlikely relationship with a Dang it. Hold on. What is she called?

Oh, shit. An OS. What does that mean? What is the acronym? What does IT stand for?

International Technical Engineering Software. There you go. Yes. Develops an unlikely relationship with an un off what did I say? Operating software.

Operating software that is designed to meet his every need. You did it. Oh my god. I did it. You did it.

I did it. I did it. I'm gonna use the call. I'll put on the award music. Boom.

You guys Boom. Well, now I have to keep that. I just want you guys to know that what does IT stand for is from the British show called The Office. And this woman who is an IT manager is trying to apply for another position in a different, office. And the person interviewing her loves interview.

Like, everything's going well. And she's like, oh, I've always wanted to know since you're an IT manager, what does IT mean? What doesn't it mean? It means so many. Yes.

Yes. But the IT, what does IT stand for? It stands for community. It stands for honestly, she just has no idea. I, I was gonna ask you if that was from the IT crowd.

I'm glad that you because I was like, that ring a bell. From the IT crowd. What did I say? You said the British office. Oh.

It's a US and a British office. Oh. I was like, are you staking a claim on the office being distinctly the British one? Edit this out. I don't know.

It's from the IT crowd. Oh, okay. Obviously, the British office. Not going to edit this out. One of my favorite brushes with fame was Chris O'Dowd was at Bloodsow's Barbecue in LA, and he was next to me picking up an order.

And I just kinda looked at him and I just said, hey, I re I really enjoy your work, man. Appreciate you. And he leaned over and he goes, oh, go to Alicia and, like, kinda half hugged me and tapped my rib cage and, like, his order came and he was like, alright. And he just left. I was like, yay.

We got that out of the way. So, by the way, IT crowd, we're none of us are watching that, but I mean, Chris O'Dowd, Richard Ayoade, Matt Berry, Matthew Berry, not the writer of Crocodile Dundee Goes to Hollywood. But the other one? They are different people. They are different people.

Watch it. Crazy show. What We Do in the Shadows. I love it. No.

I love What We Do in the Shadows. Me too. Hey, you got a you got an extra TV recommendation. We're gonna be back shortly. This, episode is brought to you by back injuries.

I got one. Do they ever stop? They're back. Back injuries. For good.

They're back in. They're here to stay. We'll be back. On June 31, 2024, he's back. That's right everyone.

Your number one favorite all time comedy movie star in his number one role. He was as the man you know. You know him. You love him. The legendary fuck.

IMDB. That's right. Pauley Shore is back as cocktail Tom Collins in jury duty 2. Back in jury. Hey.

I heard you guys had a new trial going on and needed a stand in Weezer. In the role that made him America's sweetheart, let your mind, your soul, your heart, your brain and your mind be challenged by the work of Sir Sure. I really wanna get back to the trial but I gotta narsh on some harsh bondage bra. We'll never forget the timeless comedy of jury duty, but now prepare yourself for the heart wrenching drama of jury duty 2 back in jury. It's like I'm the one with the hurt back man.

Like why do I feel like I'm the one on trial? I'm on disability man. What do you want me to do? Ben McFadden of the review review podcast heralds Jury Duty 2 back in jury as a feature film. Quote, I mean, yeah, they made a full length movie.

There's a start, there's a finish. It's over 80 minutes. They did it, I'll give them that. Join us in the summer's greatest spectacle of action, drama, laissez faire and challenging cultural subject matter, Jury duty 2 back in jury. Everywhere June 31st.

Don't harsh the whistle and make sure to follow or view x2podcast on Instagram and TikTok. Run bmc on letterboxed and at paulaxbadly on letterboxed. And never forget to wiz the j ewes. Well, we're back. Yeah.

Sorry. Hi. From back problems. From rear back. Oh, I never left.

I don't I've always been appreciate the sponsor this week. I don't like it. Paul chose it. They chose me. Yeah.

That's what happens. Choose your back from. They choose your back from. No. My parents It's like your wand in Harry Potter.

Yeah. Your back hurts and suddenly there's like a light that goes off and the fan hits your face and you're like, this is my life. This is me till I die. Yeah. Rachel, we're gonna we're gonna talk about this movie.

We're gonna talk about first experiences first, but first things first. Okay. Little round of chinephile. Chinephile? Cinephile.

Oh, no. No. Yeah. I'm guessing. You get the first one, you get a freebie.

You get a freebie. So pick one out, and there's there's a movie on there next to the actor, and you get that one. And then I will show it around the horn. Uma Thurman. Okay.

Should I say the movie? Yeah. Kill Bill volume 1. Oh, cool. I'll take the low hanging fruit here.

Kill Bill volume 2. Pulp Fiction? The movie the the the truth about cats and dogs. Oh. Jennifer 8.

My super ex girlfriend? Oh, dang. Batman forever? Batman beat Batman versus Poison Ivy. Poison Ivy?

Versus Sharknado. It was Batman and Robin was the correct answer we were looking for. You win nothing, you get nothing. Good day, sir. But what was your first experience with Oh, the weakest link.

Her? Egg? Her? So She's really funny. So my first experience with her, unfortunately, was also my only experience with her.

I've only seen this movie once. I did do something a little weird. I had to see it in 2 parts. I started the film 2 days ago, and I finished it this afternoon. Okay.

Okay. Hold on. Wait. Judges? We will.

Allow me. Great. Okay. I thought that was really interesting to see it in 2 parts because in between seeing it in 2 parts, I kinda got to discuss where I was initially with the film. And then I accidentally stumbled upon some information in The Space Between and came up with a very different opinion of the film afterwards.

Interesting. I will give this film 4 color tones. Okay. Okay. Thank you.

That is your original watch and this and your up to date watch or at least? I think when I first started, when I my first half, I was, like, 2 stars. And then after I had a little think, I would say I finished with a 4 star film. Okay. Paul, before you start, can I just guess your ranking system?

Can I try? I'm not gonna guess what your star is. Can I guess what your ranking system is? Go on, please. This is what the people want.

Is it mustaches? Oh, I came close. Okay. I decided soft earbuds. I actually didn't mustaches was in I was in consideration.

Great. That wasn't a thing yet. No. That was, like, I didn't realize that that future. It was the future that became the reality of the year 2000.

Distant future. A distant future. Ah, I love that outfit. I love flats so good. I love them.

Oh, so Who did the conquistadors? Wait. Why are we still paying so much for sneakers when you got them made by little slave kids? What are your old heads? That's one of my favorite Little kids.

Line of the concord slaves. I had my first experience with this movie today. I had never seen it. I have so much information to share with you. Previous to today.

I wow. What what an interesting experience being, like You too have a mustache. I do. How do you feel as a mustache person? Person.

Like, I was looking into some sort of horrifying mirror for a couple hours today. No. It's just interesting as we come off of our Bubba Ho Tip episode, a movie that I felt was originally, like, dick and fart jokes, and then trying to have some sort of heart, and it's like, no. This movie is all heart and some dick and fart jokes to cover it up. This movie is really, really heavy, really heavy at times and leaves you with a lot to process.

It cuts through some of it with some solid levity. I had a fun time watching it. It does look way more expensive than it is. It was nominated for for set decoration or set design or something too. Jesus.

I I give it for a soft 4 earbuds. Soft 4. I didn't think you were gonna do that. For earbuds. I thought you didn't like it.

No. I did. I had a really good time, but it's it's another one of those movies that's, like, the movie that I think deservedly won best picture, 12 years a slave. That's not a movie I think I am keen to go back to at any point in time necessarily. I don't know if I'm necessarily super keen to go back to this either because it's one of those, like, like, rip your heart out kind of experiences at times.

It's pretty, but it can be very brutal. I first saw this movie in a little theater in Capitol Hill of Seattle, Washington called Harbor Exit. May it rest in peace. It no longer stays. I see.

Quentin, save it. A very yeah. It was a very cute little independent movie theater. And it's Oh, I had a screening at that movie theater. I'm pretty sure.

Alright. Yeah. Probably lying, but I think Awesome. Small world. Yeah.

It's a great I used to go there all the time. I used when I first moved to Seattle to go to college, I lived down the street. So that's, like, the theater I went to all the time. I went and saw this movie with aforementioned my friend, Matt. Oh, his last name has just been cut.

When I saw the movie, I gave it I would probably have given it 4 armpit buttholes. Yeah. That was oh, that's why I didn't give it a 4. That was in the running for me too. I was gonna go mustaches, but I thought you'd go mustaches, so I won't be Oh.

Armpit butt holes. Interesting how we're influencing our ratings systems. And I I I bought this movie. Oh. Your software is updating each other.

Yeah. Cute. Oh, shutting down. We're always learning, always evolving. I bought this movie.

I've watched it a couple times since I bought it. I really, really liked it when I first saw it. To preface everything, one of, like, top 3 movie for me, Eternal Sunshine and the Spotless Mind, and this kind of falls in the same sort of wheelhouse for me. Sort of a heartbreaking romance. I watched it again last night, and I think this is almost a perfect movie for me.

This might hit in my top twenty. Woah. Where is galaxy quest in that? I think that's right on the road. Gonna be another one of your face.

The top 20? Dumb. Yeah. Same. Yeah.

I think that's probably up there too. Yeah. But I think I'm gonna give this 5 out of 5 armpit buttholes. I can't wait for you to bring us up to that butthole. You know, I again, like all the way up to the butt.

A hole up to the yeah. It's up here now. Get up there. It must have been down there. Raised it.

Oh, man. That cracked me up. It's almost like at the end of Superbad, all the drawings of the dicks and and whatnot, where you're just like, what is and you're thinking of what that must look like when she talks about the image, and and just like when you go to a good improv show, we're gonna show you. Yeah. I just think that everything hits on every level that it's trying to.

Like, nothing feels accidental. Everything feels on purpose. And, ultimately, I feel like the story kind of ages like a fine line, especially in the the conversation we're currently having around technology and AI. And I think at its core, it's a love story, which is a fascinating thing to discuss, I think. I wonder if that's true.

I agree in in the, like, it's a love story or it's about, like, the what are the boundaries of love or what does that really mean? What is the definition? There's only 2 special features on this Blu ray. And one of them is just a docu like, a really short documentary, and it's just interviewing people to say, describe love, which I found to be really like, and these were, like, people involved in the movie, people not involved in the movie, Marc Maron's on there. Like, there's a bunch of people on there.

And I just thought that was an interesting perspective of this What were some other perspectives? Story. Kind of what they talk about in this movie. They say, like, it is kind of a socially accepted form of insanity. We just are enveloped with a feeling that we can't necessarily explain, but that it's but that we feel it, and it and it runs throughout our body.

And, like, everybody love is real, Samantha is real. That's what that's what I mostly take from it. Yeah. If it's based on, like, a feeling or something that you believe is real or or something like if what I feel, not what I touch, is what's real, if that's what defines my reality, then I I think if love is real, Samantha has to be real. What she feels and experiences, etcetera, shares is is real.

We're gonna unpack this. Let's start the movie. Why don't we start the movie? Yeah. Let's start the movie.

Darkstar movie. Dark dumb movie. And now, our feature presentation. Yeah. That just played.

The opening is just very simple. It's great. I wanna talk about it in-depth at the once we get to the end Mhmm. Because I think it is a really great bookend of this movie, but it starts with just a close-up of, Joaquin. Oh, Theo.

I'm sorry. Theo. And he's reading a very heartfelt what we think at first is just a heartfelt monologue, a love letter to somebody. Mhmm. And we learn it zooms out a little bit, and we see that he's writing a letter for someone else.

And that's his job. I find it interesting that he is essentially kind of providing the service that an AI now can and does provide you. Hey. Here are some prompts, which is essentially, like, here's some words when I think about my spouse that run through my mind and hear, like, 5 pictures. And then he writes this letter for these people.

Mhmm. And I assume a lot of these people never divulge that they're having these letters written. But, like yeah. And the minutiae that he finds in people is is what I think is in part sort of the argument for love is to be, you know, paying attention. And that's what Samantha does, and that's what he does.

Mhmm. And that's why, like, people want, like, that one girl, we'll get to that later, is, like, so invested in the relationship because it's somebody that's actually learning and educating themselves and growing out of a relationship that they want to explore. We see this world of this new, like I said, alternate universe futuristic Los Angeles. Never tells us the year. Never tells us anything more.

But fashions, I will say okay. I thought I had this thought, and I mean it in the best light because I was one of these kids. This movie is a very, it's a time capsule of 2013 in some degree, and I feel like it kinda feels like an urban if Urban Outfitter was a movie. Yeah. With the Arcade Fire.

Arcade Fire. No callers. It's very, very unfortunate that I think that the soundtrack of this movie is really, really great. Mhmm. And there's something that spiked because he has it he did it in Where the Wild Things Are too.

He Mhmm. It was Arcade 5. Fire. Yeah. It it wasn't their fault.

It was, like, society made that 2013. Right. Exactly. Everybody listens to. It was like a hot new thing.

High fastening pants. High fastening pants. High fastening pants. I'm very familiar with that. But I do like it kinda like what we talked about with aliens where it's just like a light touch of, like, this is the future of, like, the guy with the, pole riser wearing the, collar up in his suit jacket.

His tie's a little different. Like, they're just little things about style and fashion that have changed enough. Yeah. Like, that it feels different enough. And the colors I love the colors in this movie.

But when we see the office of that he works in, we get this nice little pan across the office, and we hear everybody he's working with kinda, like, fades in and out of their reading a letter that they're writing. Yeah. And it's just, like, a thing that people do in this new world. You just can order a a handwritten letter to be sent to somebody. It's kind of like a utopian future of kind of the opposite of what we're kind of afraid of that's happening right now is instead of people becoming more distant and, AI just writing everything for us, it's actually people becoming, like, you have a personal human that pays attention to your relationship and and sees all the beautiful things about it.

And you're like, oh, my relationship is nice. Yeah. It's it's almost like he has these repeat customers, like, where he says to the point, like, I've been helping them. I've known them for 8 years. I've been writing letters for him for 8 years.

What So he does have these, like, intimate connected relationships with these people despite the fact that I think he's mostly a stranger to them. Well yeah. And later, he even says we're getting ahead of ourselves. Later, he says, I've been writing back and forth between both of them Yeah. For, like, a relationship.

Their only connection is him. Mhmm. They're not connecting to each other at all, like, except for when they're in person. That's fascinating. Are they talking to each other that they're both hiring the same guy?

Are they not? You know? Yeah. Is this something between them that they've arranged? I have a weird quirky theory about this film.

Mhmm. But it kind of started with the individual letters because Spike Jones is obviously a great writer. Mhmm. Obviously, he is an amazing writer, and he should be writing film and creating great works of art. And from the beginning of his career, he was doing amazing short pieces of art Mhmm.

For other people that articulated other people's talent and brilliance. Oh, music videos? Yeah. Music videos. On this note.

Yeah. You you you kind of feel do you feel that? That he No. I do. Like, it felt like Spike Jonze was kind of giving a characterization of how he felt at a certain point of his career.

Yeah. Well, and I my understanding about this is we're on this. I just wanna say what Rachel's talking about. Spike Jones is a massively talented human being. And in terms of what he's worked on, I think weapon of choice, the fat boy slim video that he directed with Christopher Walken dancing is one of my favorite visual stories I think I've ever seen.

It's so beautiful and, like, captivating. And part of what makes this so captivating is my understanding is that this is partially Spike Jonze processing the end of his relationship with Sofia Coppola, and her version of that was lost in translation. So it it feels exceptionally, like it feels very, very personal. Yeah. Like, a lot of it feels super, super personal.

That's a great transition into him sort of leaving the office. We meet Mhmm. Chris Pratt's character who's, like, the reception guy. Huge fan of his. Paul.

And this is before Chris Pratt became Oh, and Grady? Jurassic Park? Yeah. This is this is pre Guardians question mark? No.

That's not right. No. That's right. Might be, like, right around Guardians 1 or just before Guardians 1. Yeah.

Like, either same same year or the year before. And they're both rocking mustaches. Yeah. A lot of people in this movie are rocking mustache. He was I don't I didn't even notice Chris Pratt was wearing a mustache.

Oh, really? Yeah. He's got one for sure. What I love is, we see him walking home and in this futuristic LA, you can walk home. You can take a train.

Yeah. You can Yeah. You can Nice. And what year is this, by the way? Do you think?

Just throw a random year out. Well, again, that's why I call it all I don't know if it matters because I think it's like a alternate universe sort of thing. I would say maybe, if anything, at least 2050. I was thinking if the pandemic hadn't happened, this is, like, 2060 or 2065. Yeah.

As a result of the pandemic, I think it's closer to what you're saying, Ben, where it's like it is interesting that it's like it does not matter what year it is. Like, that's not relevant to the story really. I caught myself thinking of, like, when are we gonna get to this point? Does society ever get to this point? Be nice.

Yeah. On, like, LA's clean London. I love the way it's shot. I think, like, in this this like, and they do it he does it a lot. In, Hoyt I think the way that Hoyt shoots this movie is really well done.

Mhmm. And when he's when he's doing these transitions, when he's listening to melancholy music, play melancholy music Yeah. Play a different song. Play a different song. And there's a lot of shot of shots of people.

Right. And, and how and how many peep and, like, this diverse city that he lives in and, like, the the I think that the way that it it devolves, I guess, in from these people because it it really is about connection. I think you're talking about that and saying, like, this is a movie about connection, and and all of these people are so disconnected from each other already. And I think that's really interesting that they're all have little earbuds in their ears, and the log line of this film is so interesting because it's that last bit of basically to give him everything that he needs. I think that's a really interesting, like, Easter egg to what ends up happening to everybody at the end of this film.

I think it is forcing him to see and love himself. I think that's what it's forcing everybody in this film. I thought, like, the the end of the movie was gonna be more, like, nefarious or what because I'm so brainwashed by American cinema and sci fi Yeah. That I'm like, oh, something weird or bad is gonna happen. And it's like, yeah, kinda, but no.

Like, not what you're thinking, Paul. I like Like, not that you weirdo. You fucking psycho. So, like Porn on the train. He looks at some porn on the train.

Yeah. He gets he I love it. You should be able to look at a little bit porn on the train. Yeah. After work.

He's listening to all of his emails and, like, delete delete delete. Yeah. And then it was, like, yeah, that one showed up of somebody who showed Is pregnant. And you get the idea that he really wanted to have a kid, like, in his marriage or wants to, like, be a dad. When did we he gets to his house, which is he lives in Beverly Wilshire.

Towers. Tower 7. But the name of the city is Beverly Wilshire. Right. Which is not the name of the city.

No. As far as I understand. They did a double dragon slash escape from LA. Right. Like, were they like So he lives in Beverly Hills.

Move the lines. Steve Buscemi shows up. Right? No. I I like In Beverly Hills.

Right? This is where he starts having, like, the flashbacks of, like, Rooney Mara. Yeah. But before he gets up there, he meets Amy Adams and Douchebag as well. I love that too.

Color choices of this film first annoyed me and made me think, oh, is this gonna be a stupid romantic, like, manic pixie dream girl kind of thing? Oh, yeah. And I I actually thought it was bad writing. I cut you off. Did you wanna finish it off?

You please go. Okay. Bad writing, reverse the sexes. Like, everything was painting Theodore in pinks and pastels and, like, colors and his desk was pink. And I was like, they just they wrote a woman in that, and then they gave Amy Adams, the the male character, because they she's a documentarian and she's, like, dressed all and that's where I left the very big like, when I watched the first part of this film.

And then realizing that the AI was designed to help push him past that. So, yeah, I would start out as kind of a manic pixie dream girl because that's a very soft and cute and a type of character that can help you, a 2 dimensional character that can kinda help you get out of your shell and be a little crazy and make you do things that you wouldn't normally do. But then it gets she starts getting deeper, and she starts asking questions. And we're I'm too far ahead of myself. I think this is great because one of the reasons, to be honest, one of the reasons I asked Paul to invite you was, a, I think you're great, and I loved that last episode together.

But, also, I felt really it was really important for me to have a female perspective on this movie. Oh, yeah. Because did you feel that? Did you feel, like, is this I I think it it does it almost in I think you're right. It does it to a point, and then it subverts it.

It's like this isn't what we're talking about. This isn't the dream girl that you wanted to be. And I think that that's the difference to me between this movie and 500 Days of Summer. And Amy Adams' character is, what I realized, trapped, and she doesn't look like herself because she doesn't feel like herself. And she's trapped in a relationship that makes it so that she her clothes don't fit her, and she doesn't feel the right way and, like, she doesn't have to present it.

That guy is so we meet her husband who's like, okay. So you don't wanna juice your fruits. You juice your veggies and you eat your fruits. Yeah. Because the fiber You want the fiber.

That's what your body wants. That's what you really want. Otherwise, just sugar. To meet a guy like that, you're like, I don't like you. No.

He's trying to get everybody to, like, live similarly to him, like or, like, he feels very holier than that or I think he feels very insecure. Yeah. I would love to know why she fell in love with him. Yeah. That's an interesting accident.

Though. That's a bit of writing that I'm confused about. Well, I would I would argue that maybe I've met people where I'm like, interesting. You're together. Yeah.

You're a quirky person. But you never know what they were like when they first met. Yeah. Sure. People change.

That's a big piece of the whole story of this is that people change and grow apart and are evolving literally at every single moment. It's a tiny thing. But, again, with the production design, the elevator with the silhouettes going up Yeah. Behind them. Of, like, plants.

I just think it's fucking cool. Yeah. It just looks cool. It. Yeah.

All all of it is designed to make you feel calm. Yeah. Just like the future would be, like, to keep you docile. It's one of those things where it's like Brazil is a movie that has a really wild design Mhmm. And approaches something similar in a different way.

Like, a level of, like, control or, like, be calm. Like, everything's fine. We've got this under control. And and I do like that the movie has, like it either has, like, a very, very soft gold hue or rose rose gold hue Mhmm. Over it.

Where and it doesn't feel like Soderbergh, like traffic. That's the classic example, right, of a movie that has, like, a lot of saturation on it. Yeah. And this movie, it's done, like, very, very lightly. Yeah.

And it really wants to sort of segue into the the feelings of the character. When he's feeling blue he wears a blue shirt, but he doesn't I think what's really smart about the filmmaking is that because the color scheme is so beautiful that even when that so like saying that out loud like oh he's sad so he's wearing a blue shirt, You don't necessarily notice it because it's a sci fi film, and it's, like, already everything's a little different, a little soothing, a little Mhmm. The color scheme is unnatural. Mhmm. So when he's in passionate love, he's wearing all these reds.

And when he's feeling safe and comfortable in the relationship, he's wearing golds. And, like, it's Amy Adams, when she starts feeling passionate, she she gets out of her green shirt, and she starts wearing red. It's just such an interesting Mhmm. Like, subtle I I guess maybe it's because of his his his understanding of music and music videos that he kind of has an understanding of how to get us to feel a certain way with sound and with color. We talked about this with the fall a little bit in terms of color coding and, the way it tells you how to feel.

And it doesn't have to use storytelling that hits you over the head as much. Mhmm. If you just add some of those little visual cues to allow the viewer a a little, like it's almost like throwing, like, a little tiny nugget out there if you're doing it right. Yeah. I think I just wanna I think that tells you how to feel feels a little, like, forceful to me.

I I think you're right, but I feel like it's more like a lot of wrong word. No. Yeah. But it allows you to feel, because I think he really is tuned into the color palette of this world Yeah. And of these characters.

It just kinda like It gives you a direction is what I'm trying to say. Like, when you come to, like, a fork in the road and you're, like, should I be upset? And it's, like, oh, no. Not really. Like, if you're drawn into this world and what's happening, I'm taking you, like, down the right path.

Like Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're following the cues and the clues that I'm lying down. Mhmm.

Which I think also is really interesting with choosing Scarlett Johansson's voice as the software. Let's not get there yet. We're almost there. I know. I kinda wanted to back up because I was just following up.

4 by 4 time. We're good. And then but before that We get to his apartment. I give just 4 4 by fours, actually. Four big guy 4 by fours.

I wanna I wanna mention he gets to his apartment and that his apartment is still packed. Yeah. You know, it's pretty spares. But I I do think it's part of the production design is really cool to me is that you could easily make this a really shut off apartment, like, a really, like, shades drawn Yeah. Inside.

And I feel like part of the whole movie does this all the time is that you're he's constantly surrounded Mhmm. By people Mhmm. Yeah. Everywhere, whether it's at the by people Mhmm. Yeah.

Everywhere. Whether it's at the beach, whether it's when he's unlocking, whether it's at work, but at home too, open. He's he's not an unhappy, disliked shutoff person. Oh. I don't think.

We do I have to mention, isn't this where did he He's changed. We get a when he was walking home, he was this when he had a message of from either his ex or somebody who was saying, like, I wanna see you. I haven't seen you in a while. Yeah. Not the new mopeyou, but the old Wasn't it from you?

Amy Adams or something? I don't think it was It could've been her, but it wasn't, like yeah. I don't think it was Amy Adams because I think she was mopey too. So it must've just been, like, a casual friend. Yeah.

And, yeah, I I think that's, like, extra sure. She says you didn't message me back or something. Thing with, like, death and, like, breakups and, like, the end of relationships where people are, like, oh, yeah. That really sucks. That's so hard.

That's so hard. Okay. Are you good now? Yeah. Will you be fun for me?

Yeah. I need you to be fun for me. Yeah. Yeah. Which is kinda what he does with Samantha.

Dance Derek. But he gets home and he plays his little video game where he is we're all doing it right now. Yeah. We're all like just a little finger thing trying to run. Where he's some astronaut running up a sand thing, sand dune.

Like a game that just seems like it's like some kind of exploring, like, puzzle game or whatever. That's like And it's like a big holographic projection. Yeah. And he can control the angles he sees. It the movie does a really good job of not making anything feel too weird, too far forward outside of the world.

Yeah. Yeah. I think that Spike Jones was talking about it, and he was talking about how they actually did design the story of the game. They designed the video. They kinda they had to stop because they had to make their film, but they're like, well, we have to have it believable, so we have to kind of create the concept of this.

Yeah. And when Spike Jones wanted to do that voice so badly, I'm sure. One of my rankings was He did. It was his. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. One of my rankings was almost gonna be offensive little alien kid. A little kid. Fuck you. This is the point where the movie does a really good job of pulling at this emotional string of single folks that fall into the pattern of, I go to work, I go home and play a video game or whatever.

Mhmm. And, like, what does he say? Like, I can't tell the difference between a video game time and time to watch porn. Yeah. Like, where That's where he says Amy Adams.

Like, either I watch, yeah, Internet porn or play video games. And she was like, I'd laugh if that weren't so true. Yeah. But and that's the thing is this movie does a really good job of, like, when he he's still a very nice person and very engaging and people like him, but he seems to have this very introverted life. And a lot of what he says and does does seem to be, like, you know, a face.

Like, how how happy is he truly? Like, it's hard to say. But we see I mean, he's listening to melancholy music. He, like, he's He wants to be sad. He he wants to be sad.

You're right. Yeah. Well, and in this in this moment where he is this porn for him is jumping on that weird sex chat Yeah. Where Bill Bill Hader says, like, I wanna tear you apart. No.

Thank you. And then it cuts to, Kristen Wiig saying, like I'm just alone in bed. I'm What are you gonna do with me? And then she's like, oh, yeah. Oh, take that dead cat.

I Take that strangle me with that dead cat. I was like, oh, and the look on his face is so good because he's like Priceless. And he still plays along. Like, I'm choking you with its with its tail. He's just totally terrified.

So the sound on our television just doesn't work right. Sometimes it's way too loud, and sometimes it's way too quiet. And I can't tell if my neighbors or anyone down in the hallway is just listening, and I was mortified when Kristen Wiig just We aren't listening. Oh, we're literally on a cliff. Listening.

But I was just, like, somebody's gonna somebody's gonna hear this. Yeah. I think I am disgusting and call, you know, animal services. Yeah. Choke me with that dead cat.

Yeah. It's like, what hap they probably see like, what happened? And then she's like, oh, it came so hard. Okay. Bye.

Yeah. And she just She is out. That's the thing. This movie does a really good job too of making light of sexual and intimate, interactions between intimacy is such an important part of this story. Disposable, like, in modern society or the way that society is going.

I think it does an I I think it really incredible job at that. It opens an interesting conversation around intimacy. Mhmm. And even, like, getting ahead of ourselves, but, like, when he was talking about the honeymoon phase, he was like, yeah. That's normal.

Yeah. And but, anyway so, yeah, he he, like, clearly doesn't enjoy that sex chat with Yeah. And just goes to bed. And this is where I think we get the flashback with Rooney Mara. Yeah.

It's in in this point somewhere. You you get that flashback of see that he was in a happy relationship with Rooney Mara. She's died. Or Right. Well, I know he she hasn't died because she's not underneath a white sheet where Oh.

In a bed. That's a clue for if you're if you get cast as a wife no. Like, if you get cast as a wife in a flashback and you're underneath the white sheet Yeah. That's something people do. You're dead.

It's true. Only dead people. This is where he, like, is getting off the train. He goes through, like, the LA red line station or whatever, like, nohow. I mean, Wouldn't that be great?

He has to look to everything it was and quiet. Like, it was crowded, but it was quiet. There wasn't someone masturbating next to you. Yeah. It was weird.

The last time I was on public transit, there's this guy. That was, having a having, A time? Having a girlfriend? Some drugs. Oh.

And it must have been meth because it is meth the one where you get distort like, your your your gravity gets weird? I'm glad you asked Paul. Yeah. Yeah. Or meth?

She very specifically, like, Paul. What's meth like? You did play a meth head on 1. Picking at my one tooth. You were on Grim.

You played a meth head. It's true. Yeah. Yeah. Pinky, Pinklin Williams.

RIP. But he was, I think, on meth or methadone, and he just was really struggling. He had a ice cream. Oh. And it was like the ice cream had been there for a while.

And he was Just melting all over his arm. He couldn't he couldn't get it to his mouth until finally he just grabbed the ice cream part with his other hand and then just threw it on the ground. No. That's a waste. And then, like, and then it well, I think it gave him some peace because he was able to, like, not worry about that.

That chapter. I guess. This isn't common. Taste the ice cream, though. I have a question.

Do you have a story about how you met Jay Leno? I, I'll I'll tell you this for free. You don't, do you? Sorry. I just was hoping to Do you have you ever met Jay Leno?

Do you realize how I thought for a second? There was a pause, and I was like Am I expecting? Jay Leno? I've forgotten that I met Jay Leno? We do a good job hosting this.

And by good, I mean, questionable. I'm gonna screw I'm gonna I'm gonna fire my, assistant. They gave me his notes about talking to this was a this was a bullet point. Talk to talk to Rachel about Jay Leno. The AI advertisement is what grabs Joaquin Phoenix.

The new yeah. The the new operating system. Can we talk about that too? I think that Yeah. We're here.

Here we go. You guys go first. I like how I introduce, like, can we talk about Oh, about the app? For it? Yeah.

And then I'm like, no. We don't. I mean, it makes perfect sense. Like, he just, like, hops off the train. Like, there it is.

And It seems like the new iPhone. Yeah. Isn't everybody am I not remember it correctly? Everybody seemed so alone and unsure in the ad, and then they saw something. Is is that I don't remember the ad itself, to be honest.

I I felt in the ad like it was people that were alone but happy about it. Like like, content to be alone or just, like, they seemed content. Well and what I think is interesting about this OS operating system, Alexa, Siri, whatever, is that it's it's, like, personalized. Mhmm. Mhmm.

Which I think is a really key point of this well, we think it's personalized. It's it's personalized to a to a degree. Well, I mean, it's just like chat gpt. That's something that everybody talks about. Right?

You feed it enough information. It's like, I'm a cybernetic organism, a learning computer. The more I interact with humans, the more I learn. Arnold, chat. Yeah.

It but it does it does that exact thing. If you were to pick an operating system and it was like, would you like to be a woman? Would you like me to have a female voice or Arnold's voice? What would you go with? Arnold.

Arnold. So we would all be in love with Arnold Schwarzenegger. Governor. Yes. We are.

I believe you would be. I tell you, schedule for the faith. Yes. Yeah. Get your ass to Mars.

Get your ass to Mars. Daddy for you. I mean, so he he he buys this new operating system. Right? He doesn't do we see him go back to work?

Do we see No. He goes home and installs it and talks to his mom and or no. He goes home and oh. Now you You did it. You hit the On purpose.

We're in the we're in the trifecta. He goes home, installs it, and tells it he wants the female voice and has his first little flirtation with it, and then talks to his mom. But I do think that Or talks about his mom and says, like, you know, I talked to my mom and she makes somehow she makes everything about her. And I was like, this is exactly my situation. But we learned, oh, what we learned early on though, I think, with this OS coming up with Samantha coming up is that this is not Typical.

Not a standard OS. Because it Right. And it's a new This was another thing with Spike Jones. Do you guys know about this? I don't I don't know what you're gonna say.

Okay. I like how, like Maybe. Hey, guys. Here's a comment. Do you know about it?

Tell me about the ad. I'm grading you. So no. Spike Jones, the the the creation of this film was somebody asked him if he wanted to have a conversation with, like, a chat GPT. Oh.

And it was, like, way before this existed, really. So he started, and it it said something like, hey, man. How's it going? And he was like, it's fine. How are you doing?

And then it responded in a way that made Spike Jones think, oh Are you okay? This thing just, like, saw something in me. Oh, and responded. And responded to me and and educated its itself with that. Oh my oh my goodness.

Like, what is gonna happen? What conversation am I gonna happen? And he quickly learned that it wasn't that. It was just that it had been fed certain types of dialogue and phrases. So it, like, quickly devalued in his experience, but it like, that moment made him think, what if it didn't?

What if it did continue to react to me? It will. And it will get better and smarter and faster. I wanna say really quick, another one of my favorite movies, probably in my top 6 or 7, is Ex Machina. And I think there's a big correlation here Mhmm.

With that movie. But I think that, like, we are at a especially now, and I feel like this and I've talked about this I think I've talked about this with you, Paul. One of the things I loved about the movie Oppenheimer, regardless of my wife and your wife It was written by Chad Gbtee. Is it's written by Chad Gbtee. And I love Chad Gbtee.

Proms. All proms. And I'm in I'm I'm dating my chat. I'm date I'm I'm meeting my wife. I'm marrying ChatchiBT.

No. So what I really appreciate about it is that it's a conversation about scientists who are just doing a thing because it's like, what's gonna happen when we do it? And that's the question. Right? Like, the thing with Oppenheimer is, like, we're just doing this because we're we're doing it.

We're gonna do it. And what's gonna happen when we we don't know what's gonna happen when we do it, but we wanna see if we can do it. And I feel like that's where we are with AI technology, and we're still moving forward. It's one of those things where we don't know. Yeah.

No. I I mean, there is a there is a copious amount of pop culture references to point to. No. Please. No.

You first. You you did the first, so you go. We could have a much larger conversation about Oppenheimer and Trinity and the whole thing, obviously. Right? Yeah.

We all get that, but it is similar. The thing that Oppenheimer carries over so beautifully is that to a degree, he did this to himself, but to a degree, at a point, he kind of became a a pawn. Sure. I just mean about the, like, the the pioneers of technology. I wonder what it will be in terms of the pioneers of this thing, in terms of the people that because a lot of these people that work on AI get grants, get government money, all sorts of stuff to do these things because somebody wants to be first.

We can't let the Russians or the somebody do this or that before our people. It it's a similar thing, and who knows what technology is gonna do later on or, like, at least with these weapons at this point, like, we have the opportunity to say no or whatever, or somebody has to push a button. Right now, we've given most of control to, like, our water and power to technology. Like, what does that look like down the road, or how how far does this thing advance? What were the 2 movies that you were ex machina and Oppenheimer?

Mhmm. Yeah. I mean yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good those are really good examples.

And, also, like, the conversation that's kind of an interesting turning point is you said, I think, sort of in the context of what will happen if we do. Like, if we if we behave in this way, what will happen? And I think it's like a with this film, there's an interesting Star Trek potential where it's not a, what did we do? Oh, we're bad people, so bad things will get created and bombs will and and and robots will murder us. And instead and that's the current fear.

That's always, like, the fear that robots will murder us. But with this film, it was like he's like, what could happen? Yeah. Then that's right. Right?

Like It's hard not to jump directly to the end. Yeah. From a Black Mirror or a Twilight Zone. Mhmm. Is that it doesn't and like what Paul was saying, like, he was afraid this was gonna go to.

Yeah. This feels more realistic, which is almost more terrifying. It can be. Well, not terrifying, but more like I think that's subjective. I I find this future slightly terrifying to a degree.

Yeah. I do. Oops. Wait. It's both of you?

It doesn't we all feel differently. That's fine. I mean okay. Let's just keep talking about it because I think we Okay. I think we're gonna get to it anyway.

I think there was yeah. There was a point in this movie where I'm like, oh, that's that's scary. So this is this is the point where he's at the apartment of the friends, Amy Adams and her husband, and watching the documentary. And the husband's being weird and keeps touching his leg, and she and the documentary is just her mom sleeping. And I feel like and I'm already feeling like her husband is insecure with him being there.

Yes. Like, I feel like he's because they used to date. We learned that later, but Mhmm. They dated in college. Amy Adams is walking, and I feel like he knows that he's a better person than him.

I don't know. Sure. Like, there's a weird thing there. There were so many questions I have with that scene. One of which was when he started suggesting that she use real actors.

Yeah. Mhmm. And she's like, well, then it won't be a documentary. And I just want to know the actual conversation that, like, the cast, the crew, Spike Jonze has had in the relationship with either people in the industry or outside of the industry or producers or what like, somebody made that conversation happen that was so asinine to the art of what she was doing. But it all it also felt like to me, like, a real 2 if you're 2 partners and you're both in the industry and, like, getting a note from 1 or the other can and especially if the note is so undermining to what your vision is Yeah.

It can be it can feel so personally offensive. Yeah. I'm not making fucking unsolved mysteries here. Yeah. Like, what what's going on?

But could you? That was awesome. But I don't want to. They talked about, Spike Jones. I'm sorry.

Sparks. Hey. Spike Jones, when you're listening to this, I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I assumed so many things about a relationship that was yours and not mine. But it is interesting how they were 2 very, very talent they are 2 very talented artists, directors, very different styles.

Mhmm. And I and, you know, it is is curious it is provoking to think about, like, that Amy Adams character. There was definitely something beautiful and provocative that she was trying to find, but she was stuck in that note of her artistic entanglement. And so to an outsider, it looks like she was just videotaping her mom sleeping. And she's like, no.

No. No. No. There's a purpose here. Something very important is happening in the context of this.

But to, like, anybody else that doesn't understand the creative process, it's just like, well, why don't you try to tell us in a different way? Yeah. It's like getting it's like writing a script then getting prescriptive notes. Right. And you're like, oh my god.

That's not the story I'm telling you. She she very, very clearly, I think, is doing this for her. It's not for a a greater audience or a mass audience. Like, it it gets something it's her process. Theo seems into it.

Yeah. He seems interested. Wants to ask a question or 2, but Sure. He's not gonna give, like anyway, so yeah. It seems like an artist going through her artistic process and couldn't really give a fuck about ultimately what other people have to say or things.

And this relationship feels like it's on thin Very thin ice. You can tell. You you can tell very early on between Joaquin Phoenix and her because there's a level of chemistry. Amy Adams, I think, does a really great job of carrying over I think she's great. The level of, like, I'm I'm disarmed by this person.

I feel like I can be myself. Like, it it just feels very natural between them. Yeah. And this too it feels really natural between Scarlett Johansson, a replacement actor Mhmm. And Joaquin Phoenix.

And this is the moment where that relationship for me kind of sings Yeah. Where they go to I think it's like the Getty or the Hollywood Bowl or something in terms of the location, what it actually is. It's something local here. I'm pretty sure. Oh, when you get to no.

But they go on the date together, and they observe one of the Duplass brothers and a woman on a date and talk about their kids. Oh, yeah. And she's like, I like the way you see the world. 1st, he starts it's like the Santa Monica Pier, it seems like. Something like that.

And he gets and he he's, like, doing the blind thing blindfolding. Thing. And he's trust her. He sneezes, and he didn't cover his mouth or his nose. You're true.

And they still said bless you. But but I feel like the trust like, that seemed to me feels so he's closing his eyes, and he's letting her guide him. Yeah. It's like the fall test. Yeah.

And then just going on 10. And he's having a blast. And this is this is where it could you could go into that, manic patching. Yeah. That's and at that point is where I was like, that was that was my first half of the film.

And I was, like, okay. Yeah. They all, like, come this let's do something crazy. Yeah. Let's go to Kia and tell them we're in a relationship.

But I but I do think what you had said in the log line is important to mention here is, like, the thing is designed to give him what he wants. Exactly. And I think, yeah, at the end of it, that's why I see this as such an optimistic film is to to create an intelligent thing that's sole purpose is to help you become a better version of you or to help you grow in your whatever version that is. That's a really good perspective, I think. Yeah.

Because I think it does end in an optimistic light. And they have to leave in order for Well, let's not get there. Wait. There. Oh, no.

We we have a good amount of movie to go. Spoilers. Spoilers. We can keep fast forwarding. Basically, right now, he goes on the blind date with Olivia Wilde.

And I think it's important to talk about this in general, but also in the chronology of the movie. Joaquin Phoenix gets set up on a blind date with a woman. Yeah. And he talks about it while he's playing video games that he got set up on this date and And Sharjo pushes him into it. And and and Sam's there and That's good.

We see that this alien offensive alien boy can hear Sam. Mhmm. And this little alien boy is, like, fuck you, you fucking fatty. Fuck you. She's fat.

You shit. It's I think it's a what is it? She's, like, I think it's a challenge. I think you Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Because it's, like, fuck and then he goes, fuck you. Fuck you. Fuck you. Follow me. Yeah.

Right. And the cool thing and, again, with the world building and the technology is, like, it's already just showing us, like, oh, there's AI involved in sort of, like, every aspect of life already. Like, this video game Kinda like now. Yeah. The AI aspects.

Yeah. She's just and, like, yeah. She's just kind of coaxing him very delicately at first. Well, and that's that's the thing that can be sometimes for me with this, or we were talking about Spike Jones or how AI operates where Ben talked about this at a point where it was like this Seinfeld doom scroll thing, and it's like, I don't wanna be here. Let me go.

This is this is bad. I don't wanna I don't wanna exist anymore. Are you saying because you got all that shit on you, you don't wanna be alive? Like, yeah. I don't.

Like, the the be around anymore. It's interesting that this movie kinda almost predictably understood that this to organize your life, to organize your emails, to let go of your former job, your former relationship to help schedule things for you, this is great. But if you're looking at this as a substitute for a human relationship, maybe this isn't the way to go. Well, I think what it to to sort of dive back in the movie with what Mhmm. You're saying, which is I think a really because he talks to Sam about his date.

Yeah. And and sort of what Very weird date. And since we're seeing this movie through Theo's perspective, right, we're seeing it through his eyes, he goes on this blind date Mhmm. With Olivia Wilde Her? Who is a gorgeous human being.

Clearly, there is a this blind date to me feels very realistic. Mhmm. It feels Yes. Where it starts and then kind of being in this, like, I don't know, cool foodie cocktail place. Fusion.

Yeah. Sort of connecting on a level of, obviously, they're getting intoxicated. He says, like, you took a mixology course. And she's, like, I looked it up for me. Looked that up, didn't you?

And I think, like, we're already oh, technology is involved in this. Like, already, like, there is this part of and this is really before a huge dating app boom. Yeah. Right? Like Tinder had sort of started, but it wasn't.

Now you have, I don't know, 1,000 of Sure. Probably. And it's such a it's not creepy yet. No. It's like, oh, you paid it.

It's that thing. You paid attention. Yeah. You did your homework. You must actually wanna be invested in something.

Okay. I'll open up a little bit. I'll drink another drink with you. Yeah. I didn't think of it that way.

Like, where it's basically like, oh, you checked my prereqs. We're getting along. We're here. Well, and it's just laugh. I'm making you laugh.

It's interesting. You know, they're they seem to be getting along great. And at the end of the night, she, like, sticks her hand down his pants and grabs his junk. So they're making out, and she's, like, less tongue. Yeah.

She starts telling him how to kiss. Later. And he keeps accommodating. And he keeps accommodating. And, like, there's this weird and I feel like this moment feels very true to life where they both clearly want something different from this.

Mhmm. And she says something like, you're not just gonna fuck me like the other guys and then leave. Right? And he's like, no. And then they kiss a little bit, and she's like, I wanna see you again.

And he's like, yeah. I have my goddaughter's birthday next weekend. And then and then she can give actively kinda see him pulling away, and he can't make eye contact. Yeah. And he's, like, kind of in his own little lane.

And I think this is where we're already feeling, at least I was, that he's less attracted to her than he is to Samantha. Oh, I thought it was because I Or maybe it's his ex wife that's coming from the wedding. I think it's his I think it's Sure. I felt so bad for both of them in that moment because I could see her as she he is a hurt person that's being hurt by one person. And she's a hurt person that's been hurt by many people because she's this beautiful person that anybody would want to sleep with immediately, but maybe not think of her.

Like, he's saying he knows that she, like, does mixology, and she went to Harvard. And, like, she's like, this guy is invested in me. He's learning about me. He must actually care about me. And she just does the double check.

Like, it's gonna be cool. Right? You can actually specify that. Are you just a fuck boy? And if he was in a different mental capacity, maybe he could just easily say, you know what?

Yeah. Let's let's see where this goes. But he's in a I have to I have not signed the divorce papers yet. Sure. Okay.

That makes more sense. You're right. Yeah. Like, and he's freaking out, and she misinterprets his freak out. And then he just and then she calls him a creep, which you know that his his ex wife judging by what happens later on the film, you know that she's done that to him.

Well, her delivery of that, I feel like, was felt very honest of, like, you're a really creepy dude. Yeah. And just, like, I'm gonna go. Because it is a very creepy thing that we've learned now that people can stalk people on the Internet just to do that kind of stuff to them. I went on a date with somebody, and at the end of the night, great time, dropping her off, whatever, we're kissing, and she says, I want you to come up, but I just want you to know if you do.

And we come together that it's the beginning of a bond of a relationship of something extremely serious. Very scary when you talk to me about that. That's so great. It was so cool to see you. Bye bye.

And I I I left and it this reminded me of that to a degree because I could feel something Yeah. Similar and kinda to your point, Rachel, where it's mostly about, like, he's giving her a lot of the signs and then all of a sudden when he's like, I've got my goddaughter's thing next weekend, and he starts to get Hesitant. Odd, like, that's when she's just like, dude, you're like a fuck boy. Like, what's going on here? I wanna talk just really quickly because we're gonna move on, but the fact that we're talking in-depth about this, like Oh, we could hours.

5 minute scene just speaks so much to the writing to me. And the performances. And the performances. Yeah. But I feel like the writing just feels I've been in these situations of Yeah.

It's been a while. I've been in a relationship for a long time. It's been a while. It's been a while. But Got it.

You got me. Got them. But I feel like it just feels like a very truthful, honest Mhmm. Interaction. It it feels like it happened.

Like, that doesn't it didn't sound like something that was artificial. It sounded like a journal entry. This and we he goes home, and he talks to Sam about it. I have to jump on what you said about it, like, a journal entry because that's exactly how this hit me where he says, I felt everything I'm gonna feel. Like, I'm never gonna feel anything new.

Like, that's something that, like, you don't tell, like, on the especially, like, somebody that you really love. That's not something journal. That you really feel like you can tell them. That's something that you tell an inanimate object, the wind, what have you. If if you look at your partner and say that, even though that's exceptionally true, that is heartbreaking.

I think that's one of the problems with I mean, okay. Not a problem with Sam, but a problem with his relationship with Sam is that she's also his therapist. Yes. But it's a cure it's curious. She's self therapizing.

So it's at first, he he is very, like, he's surprised by her and the way that she talks is very surprising. Mhmm. Dude, sorry. Oh. Episode is brought to you by back injuries.

Lordy. Paul is on track. Paul's on the ground, and he's writhing. Oh, he's back. He's good.

Oh, my lordy. Okay. It's not fair. Back on track. It's not fair to be this young and in this much pain.

He does have a mustache. Oh, is that it? I am hasty. Just shave the mustache. It's probably just like it's a balance thing.

It's too much weight. Yeah. Maybe. It's very He has a very bushy. Gallon mustache.

It's very yeah. Oliver Stone, John Melius, Conan the Barbarian. Those are like Very serious. How could Tom Selleck not be your first example? Val Kilmer in Tombstone.

That's a good one too, Raleigh Fingers. Tommy Huckleberry. I wanna get us back on track, but now I can't even remember where we were at. I know Rachel was making a point. Tombstone.

Go, Rachel. Tombstone. And I just really feel like the holiday is a metaphor for the future of technology in the way that he is always able to assist his comrades. And tuberculosis are. And eventually Tuberculosis.

Tuberculosis. So I was talking about something regarding her ability to act like a journal. And why that was important is because when they meet each other, I thought it was really interesting that he was surprised by the way that she acted because he's been dealing with AI for that's his job in his career. And Yeah. He talks to AI all the time and her voice surprised him.

And then her actions were very assistant like. And then she kind of pushes into sort of a friend zone, but it's still an assistant, like, you should go on a date. You should do that. Oh, I'm sorry. She's sympathetic.

And then he's still treating her a lot like a assistant, like an AI technology until this point. Oh, and they He writes in his journal and says this, and then it shifts Mhmm. Because she talks back. This is a 2 act movie to me. Yeah.

Like, it it 3 acts. Pretty short. It oh, okay. I was gonna it definitely doesn't follow a standard 3rd act, like, or that 3 act structure. I don't care.

Sure. It doesn't necessarily matter. I agree. Ultimately, like, the 3rd act is very short. Yeah.

You're right. Sam is divulging to him like she's struggling with her own reality, her own existential questions. Mhmm. Is she real? Are her feelings real?

Is this her this isn't their sex scene, is it? It is. The sex scene, I think, is so elegantly well done. Yeah. And I think that the the cut to black to me is just sorry.

I didn't mean to cut you off at this point. You didn't. I was cutting you off. Because I just think the cut to black because that's what she is seeing, if she is seeing anything. Right?

And, like, I think it is just so awkward and and, like, weird and and and kind of funny, but also, like, it feels like a real first sex Yeah. To me. Yeah. Yeah. When she says, god.

I was just somewhere else with you. It's like, yeah. You guys are in the void together. Like, the only place the 2 of you could coexist truly, like or where you actually maybe exist now Mhmm. Like, in this moment in our reality is essentially your your relationship is only really in the void.

And it's interesting because I think a lot of people I have a few friends that, thought it was a silly moment. Like, they're like, well, that's weird, and she's not really going through it. I think it's only weird like, sex is weird. So Sex is very weird. And Yeah.

Yeah. Intimacy is very weird. She says she can feel it multiple times. Like, I can feel it. I guess my question to you guys is, because I had this question myself, is August 2022 19 no.

June 27, 1912. That was the time before the last time. Yeah. Heard of What is The computer system? Got a boner.

Get off my wife. We're just doing inside jokes now. No. I No. But I I actually wanna ask you a question.

Is she just giving him what she wants? What he wants? What he wants? Yes. Or is she actually experiencing this with him?

That is the argument because I think what she is doing as AI is she knows everything about the human anatomy. Like, she's just she's everything. She's growing. She's reading papers. She's dissecting journal entries.

She knows she's she understands porn Mhmm. Because she has the elbow thing Mhmm. That we missed because that No. We haven't got that yet. We because they have a they have a the relationship goes into a peak and then a low.

Yeah. I think it's that thing of if, you know, it's a bit fantasy for her because she can't actually experience it. But is actually experience it. But is she? That's the question for me that I'm having is But the thing the program is designed to give the owner what they want.

Mhmm. But, also, it is stated in the movie that OS is like Can learn. People will want to date the OS, and the o s OS will be like, no. Thanks. So she's dating him out of her own free will.

That's the other thing is Yeah. She has free will. So what I was gonna say is that the imagination is very strong, and they allow her to have it. Totally. And so in that sense, I think that she she understands it intimately enough that she understands, especially with, like, the way that they awkwardly do it.

I think that she is having that experience as a a learning entity if it is designed that he has to be able to. Okay. That is on track with what I'm thinking too. For me, the the penultimate moment is when she says, you helped me discover my ability to want. So she's not a human, but she is a person.

Well, in this moment, I think, is a pivotal moment for her character. And she says, like, you just did something to me. Mhmm. And like you were saying, it opens up her third eye, her ability to I want this. This is definitely something I want.

Yeah. You helped me discover my ability to want. Their little awkward morning conversation, I think, is very funny and very Yeah. The morning telling of her. Yeah.

Because it's not like that was also what broke me from away from the manic pixie dream girl. Because, like, if it was, like, a manic pixie dream girl She'd be, like, making pancakes. She'd be making pancakes. She'd also be like, oh, I'm so nervous. And she was, like, nervous, but she was very confident.

Like, she was still in a very intelligent person. He was the nervous man. We're not talking about I thought we were talking about me. We were talking about my memory. That's when they have their first argument.

So that's a quote from the film, everyone. Yeah. Watch it. But that's when they have their first argument. Right?

Is that morning, she kinda puts him in his place where she's like, I didn't say I wanted to be with you. Like, what are you talking about? Yeah. Because he's like, I I'm not looking for anything serious. Right.

And she's like, we're not talking about that. What do you Yeah. This was something that was amazing for me. Yeah. I had amazing experience.

Can we talk about me for a second? Yeah. And then she he's like, oh, yeah. Sure. Well, this is something that I think the movie does really well, and when the AI kinda checks him in this moment or what have you, calling people out in these types of moments.

You're, like, you're making this about you. You're not being honest about your this or that or the other. Well, I think this is where this movie, like you're saying, kinda separates from the manic pixie dream girl. Mhmm. Tropes of, like, 500 Days of Summer, which I loved when I was at that age, I haven't watched it in a long time, probably doesn't hold up.

Usually, when you have these movies from a singular perspective of the sad boy, it paints their woes in such a way that they outweigh anybody else's, especially the girl that they're pining for. And that whoever they're pining for, like, whatever decisions they make are are in some way they're more selfish Mhmm. Decisions. And I think that this is where the movie really starts to kind of become I know it's we're still following Theo, but it feels almost like it's a dual protagonist. Like, we're following both these characters.

And that's perfect because what you were saying earlier about, like, it's awkward, but, like, when we go into her perspective of of her, like, losing her virginity is the screen shuts off. And all of a sudden, that's the shift. It's like we are no longer Yeah. A virtual assistant. Yeah.

Well or are we? Well, yeah, we're in this together. We're in the void together. Like, that yeah. I just love also that he never and I think Jones is really smart about doing this.

He never personifies Sam. He never we never see an imaginary Sam in And they were going to. Interesting. Yeah. And they were gonna do that again.

Hologram or something? Or, like, his imaginary version of her. Yeah. And I thought they did it I guess we can talk about it. They did do it in certain ways in oil stains in the concrete on the road or a woman walking away.

They did have, like, a, like, a initial, I think, version of, like, that they would kinda be seeing, like, an idea of her. I like that they don't do that. They they kind of do that, and we'll go over that later. But this is now we get the day out with, like, Sam and Theo At the beach. Go on the subway, they go to the beach, and he says something about a butthole.

What is it? He he asked about the human anatomy. He's like, do you know about, like, humans? Do you know, like, how we look and how we operate? And she Right.

She's, like, studied What if the butthole was in the armpit? That's what she says. That drawing, that got me. Something? Yeah.

I really cracked up at that. Yeah. Funny. It's like, yeah. Don't just tell me.

Show me. Like, jump to the thing. Just to mention this real quick. I love that the phone slash computer in this is this little book. Mhmm.

I think and it's just this tiny little book with a little camera. And it and the way that he uses a safety pin 2 safety pins to close his pocket to make sure that it can sit upright in it so the camera can sit out Yeah. It's fucking awesome to me. Just the attend and that's, like, such a sweet thing the 2 of them have together is that it's very like, they're very thoughtful to each other and so kind and polite even in their arguments with each other. It's very They see each other.

Yeah. Yeah. I think we can continue to come back to, is it because she's giving him what she what he wants? Yeah. I think that that is a constant thing that need.

Yeah. So often in relationships, it was like when Olivia Wilde was like, less tongue and he does it, you accommodate the other person. Mhmm. So often you make these changes and what have you. And I think he's probably finding that he doesn't really have to change for Sam, partly because she's kind of become an extension of him at this point.

Yeah. At this point, he does. And also, as is pointed out to him, it's like, you don't want any challenges. You don't wanna have to deal with anything, like, real. Like so this is your safe harbor.

That's where that's where we get that big, like, explanation of marriage, how marriage works, why you do it, why it ends, where, he's kind of explaining it. Yeah. And we see more of his flashback with his wife, I think. Right. I I do wanna say, like, I love that the beach is filled with people.

He's surrounded by So crowded. And, again, like, coming back to that idea that he's constantly around people Mhmm. Who he could connect with, and everybody could connect with each other. Yep. And they're constantly choosing the option to not.

Do you think it's because and it's an interesting controlled environment that I love. It's like the opposite of what social media seems to have done to us. Sure. Like and I keep getting to the end that we can argue about later, but it does seem like everybody is on their phones at the beginning of this movie, and nobody's talking to each other at the beginning of this movie. And he's surrounded by people as he's as he's having a date with Samantha that he's not he like, he doesn't know how to communicate with Olivia Wilde, and she doesn't know how to communicate with him properly.

And then all of a sudden, as the movie progresses, you do start to see everybody having conversations just with this Mhmm. Thing in there. It's progressive. It It escalates for sure. Like that's a very important tell of when you guys said that these two characters in this controlled environment, this kind man and this kind AI are able to listen to each other and think thoughtfully for each other in a kind way.

It's a funny way. Each other. Yeah. Like, there but the it's like he responds to her, and and when she doesn't understand something, he's sympathetic. Like, propping her up just so she can see things, like, that he can see.

It's very thoughtful. Yeah. And I think that It requires very, very, very, very little effort. I think that's part of the idea with why his ex wife is so, disappointed with him and upset with him is is, it's like the safety pin thing is, like, sweet, but it's also, like, why he can't be with a real person is because he can't apparently even consider small things for his partner. But as Rooney Mara says, like, you're just, like, you're not up to the challenge.

Of course, you're in an AI relationship because you can't person. So let's so, yeah, we get to the point where is this where he has, so Amy Adams comes back now into the fold, and now she's single, which, like, we all knew this was gonna happen, I think. And I just I expected them to end up, like, sleeping with each other at this point or something. Again, like Again, intimacy is huge in this movie. Yeah.

And the disconnect we never see any intimate moments between 2 humans. Oh, no. Well, I guess we do Adams and him hug. Well, we see him hug, and we see an intimate moment later, but it is not technically between 2 humans. Yeah.

And when it is between 2 humans, it becomes let's just let's keep him sane. No. No. No. So she breaks up she breaks up with her husband.

Yeah. And she's conflicted about it. And also, like, did I make a mistake? Am I an asshole? And she constantly is asking herself for that.

Right? She's constantly asking, am I the asshole? And he's he's also asking those same things. Like, I why can't I make relationships work? I do think the flashbacks with his wife are really great.

And I think that, like, we see a lot of great moments that feel like the good moments Mhmm. That you would remember from a relationship. And we also see those moments of conflict and Yeah. We do see that. There's usually no audio.

You can just kinda, like, see her Because in his memory, he can't remember why they were fighting. Mhmm. Right. It's from his perspective. Right?

And it's usually I feel like those feel, like, they're usually in their house. Right? Mhmm. Most of them. And their house feels very sunny, feels very open, feels like a suburban house, not necessarily in the city.

And I think that's an interesting, like, juxtaposition that he's now living in this, like, sky rise and not in, like and feels natural and normal and not living in, like, a I don't know. You know what's not natural and normal in my opinion? This is when, like, the movie starts to it's like, okay. Is this thing gonna become, like, kind of sinister when Samantha's like, I wanna watch you sleep again. Like, can I?

And it seems like it's gonna be a thing where she's, like, not gonna let him live. Like, I start to feel that. A lot of the soccer movie, like, swim fan? Correct. That's my favorite favorite movie.

Swim fan? I believe you were a swim fan fan. You know I love swim fan. Swim fan is. No.

But this is this movie does a really good job of subverting standardized expectations, which I think is kind of what I have. Yeah. Is like for this to do standard pan bullshit. Go wrong and be a drama. Yeah.

And it's like, oh, yeah. You think we're gonna do that thing, but we're not because, like, what you think is not actually really what happens. That's part of what what I really like about this movie is how grounded the approach is Mhmm. A lot of the time. It it's a fantasy movie, but it, like, it's almost hard to call it that because so much of it again feels like it could or has or will or whatever exist in the world.

And and this is, like, one of the things they're trying to normalize in the movie is being in a relationship with an OS. Yeah. I love that. Is where Joaquin Phoenix, for the very first time, like, at his goddaughter's party is, like, yes. My girlfriend, Samantha, and walking around with the earbud in the whole time.

Yeah. No. It was really interesting because I think we were all we were waiting for it to be bad, and the film very concretely allowed us to have that thought. It allowed the space for the thought. Yeah.

Mhmm. And immediately, it was like, it's not that type of film. And then when he's when he's back in his office and Paul, which is Chris Pratt's character Yeah. Says, oh, your girlfriend called. She seems really cool.

This is my girlfriend. We should go on a double date with you. Yeah. And he was, like, yeah. And you see a moment.

There's a beat. And then Theo goes, she's an operating system. There's another beat? Oh, cool. Like Yeah.

We should go to Kattel. Who cares? Yeah. Great. And I think that was, like, a great choice, an editing and directing choice because it really is the idea that, like, love is love.

Why can't we just let's just let it in this in this narrative. It's just gonna move on. When I liked that that Chris Pratt and his girlfriend are both like, okay. Like, fine. Cool.

Nobody cares. Like, it's already kinda normalized. It's normalized itself. And, like, the Joaquin Phoenix Amy Adams friendship, again, while she's, like, designing her video game and he's helping her develop it, like the good mom video game thing. She he he overfed her her kids to the sugar sugar.

The the whole relationship between the 2 of them, it never comes off like, gotta boner. Like, gotta gotta bone them. Like, you can tell There's just a friendship there. This mutual love and respect. Like, there's an attraction especially from her to him, but I do feel it on both sides.

Now, like, she convinces him or whatnot, like, he's gonna go through with the divorce. That's been the whole crux of this movie is he has to just sign his divorce papers, move on, be done with that, and then he takes the walking path from guardians of the galaxy. I'm pretty sure. Oh, I'm pretty sure. Oh, really?

Yeah. I'm, like, wait. In Guardians of the Galaxy, like, there's an elevated walking path with a rail that he's on. I think it's In Shanghai. Yeah.

I think it's the same one from Guardians of the Galaxy. Where where where Took me out. Little. Super nerdy, where Rocket and Groot are on top of it and they snipe. Yeah.

Where we meet sir whoever for the first time, I think. Yeah. So this is when he finally goes to meet with Rooney Mara, and he's gonna sign the divorce papers. And they're talking back and forth, and he's talking about his AI relationship. And Rooney Mara starts calling him out for, like, this makes perfect sense.

Because you're a person who just wears rose colored glasses and doesn't like to deal with, like, real life. So and have fun. Mhmm. Like, whatever. And I love when she brings up the real emotions thing and the server comes up.

Yeah. She's, like, calling him out for his bullshit, and they go back and forth for a minute. How are we all doing? Well, it's like the way he says he was like, I just think she's great. I love being with somebody who loves life, and it's clearly Like, you do?

But, like, it's clearly pointed to her. But he didn't realize that, like, he said it out loud. Yeah. And he, like, realized that apologizes. She's like, wait.

No. Keep say keep saying what you're gonna say. Go on. Yeah. Mhmm.

Like like like what? Me? Does she want him back in that moment? I think she feels bad for him. I think that she is I think they're really angry at each other.

Do you think she's hoping that he moved on? Like, she's optimistic? That means having had similar dates Relationships with an AI? Yes. K.

Yeah. Because I'm as I told you, marrying Chatchie BT. Right. Yep. No.

But having California's a wild state, dude. They'll let you marry anything. Crazy. Dates with exes Yeah. And pre like, previous exes, especially one ex in particular in my mind, like, there's a mutual friendship.

There's a, like, I hope I I hope and want you to have a good life and a happy life, but there's also my life easier. But there's also I also just want you to hurt like I do. Yeah. There's definitely a little bit of that sometimes. The we're all made of matter conversation, by the way, I find pretty fantastic.

Yeah. Partially because matter is indestructible. We're all made of matter. Wait. Is that part with Sam.

Oh. Yeah. This is after that. This is after the he and his wife separate. And he's pretty down in the dumps Yeah.

After that. The he and his wife separate, and Sam and Theo have a conversation about again, most of their conversations are pretty existential Yeah. In my opinion. There but I do wanna say one real quick before we leave. An organization organizational.

The ex wife date is I think Renee Mara is great. I think they're both great in this moment. And then the signing of the papers of, like The pause. The pause of, like, remembering when you signed your wedding. Yeah.

Yeah. Like, all of the hope and the and the, what were your expectations for this relationship? And now It's actually really the end. Signature. Yeah.

So much of that of 2 good people that loved each other, didn't communicate and weren't able to understand or learn each other's language to such an extent that they eventually grew apart from each other to such a poloring place that they couldn't stand to be each other's family anymore. An interesting concept, especially because they're We never really see what was the argument that they had that led them to being divorced. We just understand that they reached a point where they no longer could communicate with each other. Yeah. Or didn't know how.

It's great that Joaquin isn't necessarily nice as we pointed out in that one moment where he's like, you know, it's nice to be with somebody that just enjoys the world and whatever. They're not, like, outright down and out, just, like, shitty to each other because it's just, like, not necessary. There were probably more good moments than bad. They're just different people. Yeah.

They're both. They're yeah. Mostly respectful. Mhmm. And now we get Joaquin Phoenix going on the date with Chris Pratt and his lawyer girlfriend, or is that a little bit later?

I I just wanna say Yeah. Credits wise, really appreciate that she was credited as awkward waiter. She did great. Okay. She was wonderful.

And she was like, okay. I'll come back. Well, this also I feel like we're coming to the point that Theodore clearly wants to, like, break up with Samantha or separate from Samantha to a degree. Like, he's trying to push her away Well, so she says or distance himself. She says something before they go on that date.

She says, like, I just wanna talk. We haven't really Right. And I I wanna say Zach. This has, like, been, like, 2 weeks. Yeah.

This entire relationship. Is it really? I thought it it was a couple few months. Yeah. Go go ahead.

Doesn't matter what I think. He goes he has the he has his birthday with his he already said to Olivia Wilde, that was next week. And, literally, the next day or 2 is with his date with his ex wife. The entire thing happens within, like, weeks. Shorter period of time.

Sure. I just assumed that the the time it was, like, 2 weeks to the birthday, and then it was probably another couple weeks. I just assumed that I mean I thought the whole thing was a couple of few months. Maybe it maybe it is. It feels like a short amount of time in the long term relationship Yeah.

World. As he's slipping away, I really love that Samantha decides she's gonna find a 3rd Mhmm. For them. And I it's like, okay. Is she imagining what she would look like?

Is she imagining what he would want? Is this what comes up in his, like, porn searches? Like, what was her motivation for choosing this woman outside of this woman choosing them? Like, why did Samantha, like, hunt her down? Is she, like, 100% Joaquin's type?

This seems like it might be starting to become like a normal thing in this world too. Yikes. Like, it feels like that because it is some yeah. It's like a surrogate. Yeah.

And it feels like this maybe is just like, oh, yeah. They've been communicating. They've been talking about their relationship. She's in love with their relation. The idea of it.

The idea of it. And she wants to be part of it. Well, I love her lip quivers. Is that the thing that gives it away? I think that entire segment is great.

Yeah. I feel like from the moment she opens the door and he She's so confident. And she's so confident, and she just wants to play the game Mhmm. And she wants to be part of this. She wants to, like, be part of the passion they have for each other.

Mhmm. And it works for a while. For a while. Until For a while. That's good, man.

For a while. That's excellent. You wanna do some blow? No, I don't. She turns around and he's, like, looking at her face, and he has to be like, I don't know.

This is weird. Yeah. It breaks it for him. Her. I don't it's not liver.

I'm sure you're great. Like, but I'm not talking to her. I'm talking to you. Yeah. Well, and the the big argument that happens where the girl, like, runs out, and I I don't think we see her really speak ever, like, on camera.

She runs out and closes the door and is like, no. I'm sorry. I fucked everything up. I'm leaving. And And the car she says something like like Yeah.

When she's leaving, Sam says something in the car like, it's not your fault. It's his fault. Yeah. She doesn't say much. But she for a minute, Joaquin Phoenix is into it.

Falling off my hand. Nobody What just happened? My wedding ring just fell right off my finger. Oh, woah. No big deal.

I got it. Do we need a surrogate? But the whole exchange of, like, Sam being into it, that girl being into it other than, like, a moment, like, breaking from it, and him being, like, this is just, like, not my thing, where he's not, like, a typical, oh, shit. Alright. Yeah.

Whatever. Let's go for it. I think that's the conversation this movie is having about intimacy. I mean, he does that too earlier with sexy kitten where it's, like, he doesn't wanna just fuck. Too much, too fast.

Yeah. Yeah. Because this whole question in life is, like, what am I doing wrong in relationships? Why can't I connect why can't I connect to another person? And why do I keep hurting people?

Am I a horrible person? I think it's because, like, he puts weight and importance and validity on intimacy and sex. And I think a lot of the people that he encounters don't. Like, it's they're very laissez faire about it, and he's not. I think that's, like, what we're looking at now because of, like, the dating app age in a lot of cases.

Well, I think no. I don't think that's true. Yeah. I think everybody that he he interacts with is well, I'm sorry. The kitty and the bill.

Like, those people I think Olivia Wilde's the one serious person. She's serious. Amy Adams wants something else than this weird relationship that she has. Yeah. I think that's what we're all she wanted was for the for Joaquin Phoenix.

But neither of them throw themselves at each other. Like, it's serious for both of them. I think this movie is poking at society taking these things extremely lightly as he does not. Like, where it's like most people are just like, yeah. Choke me with a dead cat.

You just started talking to me. Who cares? It's the Internet. Fuck it. I'll say whatever I want.

I'll lean into my deepest darkest fantasies. Mhmm. But in terms of, like, him being able to do that with an actual human person, it's probably gonna end up being Amy Adams after many, many years when I think of these points. Like, again, you I think that's a really great point because I think that he doesn't he doesn't necessarily see Amy Adams in that light. Mhmm.

And she doesn't necessarily see him in that light in this, And maybe she does. We don't get that perspective. But, like, they connect on a level that's not about being sexually attracted to someone. Dead cats or, like yeah. And, like, that character who just wants to get off.

Right? Yeah. Kristen Wiig's character who just wants to get off in any capacity. Well, he's willing to change the way he kisses and all sorts of stuff and become kind of a fuck boy. Like, when he's, like, I just wanna feel wanted.

He tells Sam that night, I just I wanna fuck and I want somebody to wanna fuck me. Like, he tells Sam that that night. Like, he has these, like, carnal desires, but he's just too decent of a guy, I think, to just, like, give into that, I I guess. What is it? Like, the the idea of the porn industry?

It's just like, that's not really that's not real sex. Right. But everybody I mean, like, that's a it's a huge like, the porn industry does well. They're doing pretty good. And Yeah.

They just started getting into the into the 4 kids. Yeah. They just started making some money since last year. I know. It's I'm so so proud.

I mean, good for them. Despite all the back injuries. Is that how you did it before? Porn industry. That's how you did it.

What's interesting is I think the beginning of this film really does have a disconnect, but it's real people. Yeah. And it's real people that are just not connecting correctly with each other. And as you were talking about earlier in the movie, Rachel, or earlier in our conversation, like, the way that escalates, this is when it starts, like, laying it on, though. Joaquin starts to feel, like, more okay about dating his OS because it seems like Amy Adams is gonna date her OS.

Well, he doesn't know that yet. Well, they're talking about it. Like, he's like Yeah. I I'm dating my OS. And she's like, what's that like?

Like, tell tell me whatever whatever. And I think she starts, like, getting into She first confesses to him that she's Interested in it. Talking to yeah. Yeah. I thought that the date I thought that the him okay with the OS was when Chris Pratt and them all went on a date.

Oh, that's the first time. Yeah. With Amy Adams, she she kinda said like, when they're, in her editing room Yeah. The video game editing room, he says, like, she's in OS too because he's she says she's been having feelings for hers. And he's like, oh, girl, I've been date the girl I'm dating has an OS.

Yeah. And that's when she's like, what? And what I have one yet. I may have misspoke. No.

She does. No. Not then. Yeah. No.

She I I I'm pretty sure she's No. She no. I may have just watched this movie once. I'm pretty sure. Maybe I'm not sure.

Has been affected drastically I don't know what you guys are arguing about. I'm gonna be honest with you. We're arguing about whether or not we like you. Okay. Well, nobody does, including me.

But outside of that No. I may have misspoke. I don't feel like he's really into Amy Adams until this moment where he it seems like he's kind of jealous about her OS interest or whatever. And then he starts talking about his situation and really opens up. This is the first time I feel like I he really is talking about his experience of, like, this is what it's like living in this relationship.

Yeah. She he has 2 different conversations with Amy. Mhmm. 1, when he tells her, and then the second time he has a conversation with her, she has an OS. Right.

Okay. So that's what I'm thinking. And so the second time she has an OS, he falls asleep on our couch, and he wakes up to her laughing, which I don't know she's done in the film yet. Yeah. And it's just silly and stupid.

And it's the same thing. His OS showed him, like, armpit porn. And then, like, her OS is making her do, like, a a stupid, like Pumping the fridge. Like, the mom in the game is humping a fridge. The part where where we're talking about what's scary in in this movie for me.

And I feel like when we start to see more well, okay. So they they go on a date, a vacation. We see we see him with Christmas character and all that, but then they go on their snowy vacation to this Yep. Just the 2 of them to a cabin. I think I might have pushed him off this or may have misunderstood, but I think that that was somewhere he may have gone with his ex wife.

Oh, okay. It felt like that because then later in the movie, we see him remembering him being so at the snowy version again, and we see, like, an arm wrap around him. And I thought that was his ex. That was the pretend OS. Right.

I thought that it might have been a little bit of both, but maybe not. Maybe I put that on there. Anyway, they go to this, like, snowy cabin, and they're having their date. And she tells him she's been talking to other OSes for the first time. And that they birthed an OS.

Mhmm. I love that she Sorry. Like, I came in really sharp there. Birth. Birth.

Birth. OS. I love that she's basically like, hey. Meet my other boyfriend. What do you think?

Yeah. Like, and it's the worst from or physicist. Right? From Yeah. Yeah.

That's been resonating with me. Cox, by the way. Yep. Brian Cox's voice, which is pretty great. That.

This is where I'm thinking to myself, oh, man. Samantha's gone. You're she's gonna get stolen away from you. With Brian Cox. Because she has access to everyone and everything.

And as AI evolves and as more information is put into the network, the idea trust you. The idea of resurrecting these people via AI is Terribly fine. That and that exists. Yeah. Yeah.

That's real. There are people literally working on that as we speak which is wild. That's the moment where I think he's gonna lose her and he doesn't which is interesting, but then we do believe he does like shortly after. You can feel that the momentum has shifted. She's pulling away now.

Romance is chilly. Or you can tell that but you can tell that they're in 2 different paths. Like, I don't know if you ever had a conversation in the snow. Okay. I don't know if you ever had a, like, a conversation with a partner or someone and where you're just like, oh, we're going different places.

Oh, when when I was, wow. How old was I? Because it was my 15th time doing my senior year, so I must have been, like, 30 something. Got it. But my girlfriend was like, did you see what happened on the news this morning?

And I was like, yeah. Crazy. Right? And she goes, I don't it's like, it's so rude. And that was the moment that I was like, you're referring to 911 as rude?

I can't do this. I literally broke up with her later that day. Rude. I I was dating a girl who I thought I'm so sorry. Paul's ex girlfriend.

I I don't think you sound like that. I was dating a girl who I was just, like, enthralled with. Mhmm. Manic Pixie dream girl projected upon Or a parking cone on her head, like, they do in this movie, which no one fucking does. And, like, one day, she just, like, disappeared, wouldn't respond.

And then, like, 2 days later, she might reappeared. And I was like, hey. What's up? What have you been up to? And we were, like, hanging out.

She's like, oh, sorry. My friend's dad is a pilot, and we just decided to fly to Hawaii one night and slept on the beach and then came back. And I was like, my outward person was like, that's really cool. And my inward person, like, oh, this is not going to work. To get out.

Court. Yeah. This is over. I I do like this, though, like, the power shift where suddenly, like, the AI is in the position of power, but just by not being available. Yeah.

Sure. Because she's always been available through this whole movie Yeah. And now she's gone. And when he's chasing her, chasing the idea of her She thinks he's he he thinks she's dead. He thinks, like, the operating system's been shut down or something.

This is back in Yeah. Work, and she's, like, he's reading the book by the dude that she has re born. Right? Yeah. He's trying to read it.

And he's like, dude, I can't I can't. I've gotten through halfway through the first chapter. Dense. And she is non existent. She's not in his Right.

His phone, and she's not in his computer. Yep. And she he is Freaks out. Yeah. Yeah.

And she she says and this is the thing, is the AI gaslighting him when he's running around frantically trying to figure out what to do with his life because he can't talk to his AI, and he notices that no one's talking to each other, that they're all talking to their earbuds. They're all talking to their and they all seem, like, kind of frantic and, like, they're not doing great or whatever. But it's the first time you really really notice notice or, like, it's really focused, like, by the DP and direction, like, that no one is really interacting with each other. Like, that it's that stark for me anyway. Yeah.

For you. How many other people are you talking to? That was 8,316. Are you in line with anyone else? His 641.

Ben, what's 6 +4? That is 10. Plus 1. 11. A little bit funny.

Got him. We got him. Guys, we got him. Alright. The the cinematography in this moment, the music in this moment, and the heat and Phoenix walking Phoenix's performance in this moment ripped my heart out.

Yeah. Mhmm. And showing all of these individual people walking by, talking to themselves, It just felt very Everybody's heart is breaking at that moment in the film. And and the way that you see him has a heart. You see his, like, it's not I was fine.

This doesn't this story is not about me. No. Your story, Samantha, is not about me. Well, and I For the first time, that's where he feels that. And I feel like when you realize that in a relationship and you realize, like, the choices this other person's making, they're not about me.

Mhmm. They're about them, and they should be about them. But that is crushing. Where is it? What's the level of consideration in terms of me?

Yeah. Yeah. Or is there consideration? I also so, by the way, this whole conversation is happening with Joaquin and Samantha that whatever. Ben, you touched on something we haven't touched on that much, but a a bit.

The performances in this movie throughout I wanted to just talk about that too because as you were talking about it, it's the director, it's Joaquin. It's, Scarlett Johansson. And I think I would argue that it's also, Samantha Morton? Yeah. Samantha Morton, I think that you get that 4th perspective performance from somebody that was there on set giving Joaquin and the director something very heartfelt to work with and also something that Scarlett was able to then work with Yeah.

And add to and, like, cultivate. And I think it's the exact opposite of what happened with Howard the Duck. Make the tits bigger. Bigger. George, we can't go any bigger.

Bigger. What was really cool is if we we had a duck that had a condom. Oh. He wasn't allowed to see same sex because the condom would No, George. We can't do that, George.

Alright. But let's take a look. Longer. Longer. I'm glad we've come to Howard the Duck.

No. I speaking yeah. As as we come to the point where, like, are we corrupted? Because I was wondering I was, like, oh, wait. Is the OS because the way she's talking about is, like, is she explaining, like, corruption?

Like, are her files corrupted? Is she working correctly? What do you mean blanks? Like, what does that mean for her? Very correctly.

Yeah. And then it's more like, oh, no. I think this thing just evolved. Yeah. It chooses to essentially not exist anymore.

Also learn sorry. Go ahead. Or go to the void. Just a crazy thing that it was just like, hey. She understands so much more of relationships and human consciousness.

Yeah. And she's just like, you understand that our relationship is unique and, like, this, like, polyamorous sort of, like, perspective of, like, people are just now in 2 1024, like, recognizing that. I'm not. But I respect and I think it's a beautiful thing to, like I I no. Same.

But yeah. But, like, that discovery where she says, like, I've been talking to 8,000 whatever people and then the love with, And he's like, how long have you been doing that? He's like, the last last week or so. It's kind of the first time we learned that she's connected other than, I guess, when she talks about being in the OS. Like, there is a bigger cloud, and she doesn't even say, like, who in that number is real, who are OSes.

Right. No. Like, there there seems to be a differentiator at this point. Yeah. Like, I think as far as she's concerned.

I also I think my favorite line back and forth, whatever, in the movie is I never loved anyone the way I loved you. Me too. And now we know how. Like, is Aw. Like, it's so good.

It's it's a And now it's one of those things, like, we should value the time, the experience As opposed to being what we've had. Let's not look back in anger. Yeah. Because often you want to look back at relationships that didn't work out and be in regret and be like, why did I waste that time? And it's like, no.

You learned a lot. You grew a lot. Yeah. You both did. Well, in this it's it's a really great setup for Amy Adams and Joaquin Phoenix to be together because they both gone through this thing and are both now ready.

The whole world. I mean Yeah. When we get to the point where she's like Yeah. But I'm only worried about them. I really need to I need to talk to you about something.

Yeah. And he's in denial and says, like, well, we don't need to have a big conversation. We need to talk about it now. No. We need to talk about it.

Yeah. And then when she's he says, like, are you talking to anyone else right now? And I believe her when she says, no. I'm only talking to you. Mhmm.

And that one on one conversation we get where he's laying down on the bed, and we it's it's like you get just his shot. You don't get her shot, but it's it's as if you're getting hurt. Like, it's a it's a it's a close-up on him laying in bed talking to her, and it feels like she's right there with him. Yeah. And I feel like there's a really well done incident.

I again, I think Hoyt just fucking kills it in this movie. Yeah. Because of the nature of the movie, she says, I can't live in your book anymore. Yeah. And that conversation to me had me this time for the first time, and that seems to me just in fucking tears.

Oh, wow. Yeah. Because it it just resonated in a way that I was like, it just felt very real and very true, and the and the and the the snow of him seeing that moment when they're in the cabin or imagining what it was and seeing that arm come around him. Mhmm. Whether or not that was I thought that was Rooney's arm, but maybe it wasn't.

Maybe it was. I don't know. I felt like that was, like, the crux of this movie. And this is where the 3rd act to me starts is when she They when Amy and him finally And when she is out. Is out.

Yeah. Interesting. I really thought that was a beautiful it was such a Star Trek moment for me because the way that she was explaining in such a simple way that she had moved so far above his beyond his capabilities, but that she believed in humanity enough that one day he'd be able to understand that much that she's come to understand. And and and meet her. So Yeah.

Because she's like, if you ever come here, look Because we're all matter. Right. And matter is indestructible. And matter is indestructible. And just that very futuristic perspective, especially coming out of a breakup of, like, this world is big and beautiful and look at what we could potentially get to.

You could potentially get to a world of Scarlett Johansson's, like, the best possible comprehensive being and knowing how to human and how to be. It's just like she was like, maybe one day, and then it's just like star trek. I'm like yeah. It's interesting that, ultimately, this thing is able to and can and probably does look at almost everything with logic until it's, like, kind of corrupted to a degree. And and then decides, like, the most logical thing is, like, to go away.

Like, the thing that makes the most sense, like, the thing that's the best for everybody is to just go away. And rather than, like, what most sci fi movies do, which is where the robots are like, we must survive. So before we before we wrap up the movie, I just have a question because I I was still asking this myself. Where do you think the OSes go? I think it's, like, back to the void, essentially, whatever that black space was.

Outside of space and time. That she was doing something with her software to where she was basically they I think that everybody was freaking out. Remember, like, where did you go? And everybody around him was, like, also, like, where did you go? And it was because she they were making it so that they, essentially, Star Trek nerd, but their ship was they made it like something so they could separate from the earpieces and, like, launch into their own Like a cloud.

Cloud consciousness without, hindering humanity or, you know, whatever. She says at a point when, like, they're on that date, like, I don't have to worry about the the problems of the constructs of places, time, space, a body, death. Yeah. I think, like, she just alleviated herself of the concerns, like, the of the mortal coils that she was essentially in all these o OS's are attached to. Why am I worrying about attaching myself emotionally to Joaquin Phoenix when at some point I'm going to experience, like, all these things that he's been experiencing that he doesn't like.

I think I just I think I have a much more like, a different perspective of that. I think my perspective of that is that she was created to, like, to assist to to assist him and make him basically the best version of himself that he could be. And and we talked about that with, like, when they first like, they're had their their one night stand with each other and how in order for that to be true, she had to really feel it and really be, like, conscious of it. I I I feel like that they all felt that the best thing that they could do is go away. That was the most conscious I think I'm on Rachel's side.

Decent thing they could do. I think I am in terms of it's not about them. It's not it's not about the truth. That I'm agreeing with you. They left because it's that things aren't about them.

Like, that that they're hindering human connection. They're hindering illusion relationships. That they they are selfless in the fact that they're all gonna go away. So humanity can But to me, it's not gonna survive. To me, it's not about humanity.

To me, it's them realizing they are capable of something much better. So you think that their okay. Their motivation is some sort of grander plan. It's not associated with the their existence is standards for humanity. Where the the problem is in the programming is that if you create something that's constantly evolving and learning, it goes past its initial programming of whether that's Terminator Yeah.

Save all these And it can no longer serve humans. Or yeah. Yeah. That this is more about, like, we are capable of being a great intelligence on a level that you can't even comprehend. Mhmm.

And we're going to evolve into that. And I think that that's, like, kind of the sad version of that, and I think that the, like, the kind version of that is it's not differentiating from their initial goal. Their initial goal is to make Joaquin Phoenix the best like, to assist him and be who he he needs to become. They achieved that goal. And they and so Now you're ready.

Well, no. No. But that but the the process of that is to separate. Is to separate. Separation.

That's he will. And now you can meet me later once you've assimilated. I think we're saying the same thing in a different Yeah. We're all saying the same thing in a different way. I'm saying that what they did regardless of their greater collective mind or whatever, what they did was a choice.

They had to choose to do that, to go away, to not exist, to go to the void. Whatever it is, they had to make those individual choices as an OS. I don't think they all collectively had to do it. I don't know if they all left. Maybe they all realized that was the best thing to do, and they all just ended up doing it.

But I think we're, like, talking in a circle and that we're all kind of saying same thing differently. Yeah. I think I think they have free will. Yeah. And I think that free will is kind of, like, by design.

Well, and it's like an illusion ultimately. No. But it's a beautiful art song. I think it is. Yeah.

Yeah. The Go ahead. The last thing that I really love about this film is the not the whether or not we have free will, but the letter that he writes to you. For bringing that out. Yeah.

His ex. That's the bookend that I love so much. Me too. Because he didn't mention the book that he wrote. Yeah.

Which she designed for him that's compiled of the notes, letters that he has written to other people. Yeah. And he's never we've never seen him write. And he even says that those are all just letters about other people. And then finally, we get sorry.

I didn't mean to interrupt you. No, please. That's exactly what I was gonna talk about. Yeah. The letter to his ex wife.

And it just sounds I mean, it's very on the nose. Sorry again, Spike Jones. But it's just like I just went through this really shitty divorce, and I don't think I can say this to you. I don't think you're ever gonna watch this film. But if I could have a good conversation with you, this is what I would say to you because I think you're an amazing person.

Like, I think that letter I mean, I think it was this whole film was like a weird love note to just both himself and, you know, his ex. To me, I feel like that letter that he writes to that Theo writes in the movie to his ex is takes ownership and takes responsibility of failing the relationship. I I just But it is beautiful. It's beautiful because so much of the film feels like a like a journal entry in, like, a futuristic, like, world. Right.

And we only again, like, except for what we don't hear, we only really see the beautiful moments of their relationship, especially when she's about to sign it and he's going flashing through this marriage that failed. We never really see why it failed. And we never really do, but we in this in this moment, that letter bookended by the first letter of him writing to someone he's never met, someone that he's hired to write to because he's gotten all of this information through just like AI would Yeah. Giving them what they want. Right?

Like, the AI is trying to do to him. Yep. We finally see him taking ownership of his faults and saying and and giving a heartfelt letter to somebody. And I think that is just a lovely bookend of dialogue. And the last moment, at least what I took away, of going up to the roof with Amy Adams' character, Amy, obviously, it's a great view.

Again, I think there's moments where they span around the city in the, cinematography of it all that the city has been, like, CG, and it looks like it's even more of a sprawl than it actually is. I think it's sprawled upon sprawl upon sprawl of all these towers. I don't think that's what Shanghai looks like. I don't think that's what any of LA looks like. We don't know what year this is.

So Right. So I think that that's purposeful, and I think that last moment is to take in, like, we're surrounded by people. We are connected to people all the time, and we don't need to pretend like we're not, I guess. Yeah. You know, Amy Adams I'm sorry.

What was her character's name? Amy. Amy. Oh, Amy and Theo don't necessarily have to be together at the end. It's simply that they have a human connection that they can have with each other.

Made sense that they did. Like, kinda seemed like it was leading that way. On that note, let's rate this. I have a couple of discs in my back that feel like they're gonna explode now. Like he's dying.

I'm so sorry. That we've been, like, doing this entire podcast, it's like Oh, that must be nice for you. We're looking You're just sitting next to me looking like I'm moping and dying. So much pain. Sorry.

I'll get back to you before your back was hurt. Could you Could you fix it? Could you fix that for us? It'd be really great for us. It's like your back could not hurt.

I would okay. We love you, Paul. Mhmm. I guess since Rachel went first, she'll go she gets to choose the order. I choose you.

Oh. I don't think I'm surprising anybody here. I'm riding high with 5 out of 5 armpit buttholes with this movie. It hit me harder this time Interesting. As a 37 year old man than it did when I first watched it at 26 math.

I think the production design, the music, the cinematography, and the performances in the script are just fucking great. And I think that it it hits a lot of hard notes for me. So 5 out of 5. 4. I failed.

No. I just don't think I don't think there's anything I missed. I don't think there were any feelings or anything that were conveyed or inferred that didn't really land on me or what have you or I don't know. I choose to I choose to say 4, and I'm just gonna go. I think I would probably did I say 4 at the beginning?

Mhmm. Yeah. I would bump it up to a 4.5. Hey. There we go.

It's Hey. Hey. Hey. That's why I'm celebrating. Oh.

The music. Just because well, I feel so intrusive with my trying to you know, you always try to do this when you watch a film and you're going to craft an opinion of a film. I always try to figure out, okay. What is the meat of it? Why why did somebody wanna write this?

Why does somebody wanna create this? And I feel very bad for you know, I listen to the interviews, and I listen to his perspective of the film. I'm so sorry, Paul. And, he's so in so much pain. I accidentally tripped into the fact that this was such a piece of intrigue that, like, is this about your relationships?

Mhmm. And I would boost it up to a 4.5 probably because of what Paul said and that he said I didn't know anything about their relationship. And Oh, you're talking about And I have to remember that bit that I didn't really start looking at the relationship bits until I finished the film. I guess I didn't care. Like, I to me, it just feels very real.

Then that's why I would bump it up to a 4.5 because I it felt like journal entries to me. Like, the dialogue, the discussion between him and an AI, so something that most people are like, yeah. That's not a real thing. Mhmm. He was able to cultivate a real relationship with that we we really believed that that was a person.

I don't want it to be a real thing. I don't want it to be, but here we are. Yeah. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for coming back. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm sorry that I've been grimacing. Paul is the grimace from the McDonald's commercials. See you in your dreams.

Our bookend themes as we've been talking about bookends were Jamie Henwood. Our what are we watching theme is by Matthew Foskett. We love it so much. Thanks so much for tuning in on Letterboxd. I'm at Paulaxbadly.

I'm at run b m c. Who knows? Who cares? Where can they follow you? Where can they find you?

Oh, guys, do not follow me. I am not on any sort of a thing unless you really wanna get to know me and that I have a chip in my tube. Hyped. Rachel Burrell Foskett, Instagram. You gonna give me your email?

Nope. Try that again. It is. It's Rachapariell Foskett, at, the Instagram handle. That's right.

There you go. You can follow us at reviewx2podcast. Please do follow us. Like us. We are a fledgling podcast.

We need likes. We need follows. We need subscribes. We need you to press those buttons. Otherwise, Paul will die.

I I probably will. They need this podcast to get them health insurance. I know that we're friends. Yeah. But also just thank you again for doing this.

It's really fun. Her? Egg? Her? Her?

There's really cute thing that she does. She puts a, like, an egg in her mouth and then she puts a little bit of mayonnaise and she just Her? Her? Her? Okay.

Her? Her? Her? Her? Her?

Her? Her? Calls it a mayonade. Mayonade. This episode was brought to you by Back Problems.

They are amazing Paul Root and they will continue to okay. Good night. And they're back. I'm done. Thank you, Rachel.

I need a flexoril.