Being Stepmom: Must Dos and Missteps

The month we celebrate moms seems like the perfect time to address the complexities of step-parenting in blended families, a subject close to both our hearts as stepmoms. This episode unearths the realities that debunk the wicked stepparent stereotype, revealing the compassion and strategy that goes into creating a strong and united family unit. 

We know that so many of you listening have navigated this journey yourself. Our call to action invites you, to become part of our extended family by sharing your step-parent stories. Whether they're full of cautionary warnings or brimming with triumph, we believe your experiences can deepen our collective understanding of the step-parenting journey. We eagerly await your contributions as we continue to embrace the chaos and love intrinsic to our blended family lives. Don't forget to show your support by engaging with our content – like, share, subscribe, and most importantly, join the conversation.

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:02

you're listening to dumpster diving with janice and jane what?

Speaker 1: 0:07

hi? What the heck are we talking about today and how you're blonde. Let's talk about that first. You appear blonde. Well, it's kind of blonde. Yeah, it's blonde right now it's like a it's. It's funny. It was like a gray. It was a nice silver, light silver, and then I have burgundy underneath. I got rid of the, out with the teal, in with the burgundy and, um, it looks really cool. I get lots of compliments on it. The ends are purple because not all the teal came out, so I spun like ombre burgundy to purple but because you can call that ombre, I think it's just weird.

Speaker 1: 0:44

Yeah, it's weird. It's like rainbow hair, but not really. Um, not all the colors, but no, the. The blonde part was the gray, you know, and it was nice, and silver, so I have to use the purple shampoo and all that fun stuff.

Speaker 1: 0:56

But then the red, yeah, and so it turned my hair like this peachy kind of color and it actually is really cool when it's down and you know, not a mess it's really cool looking, and then when I flat iron it looks really cool. So, yeah, so I changed it. It's no longer like the tips are just colored. It's now the first front of my hair is all like the blonde gray and then the back is the color Looks like you?

Speaker 2: 1:21

Yeah, I'm having fun. Is the color? Yeah, I have my typical, although today everybody gets the washed it and let it air dry.

Speaker 2: 1:32

look and it looks like you're just came off the beach, so it's my beach curls. I worked 27 days to get them, cause you know they're not natural. So, yeah, yeah, I it's funny because you mentioned the purple shampoo and I know everybody wants to hear about this. I, like I have that cause, you know, my hair is colored and it's a little bit lighter. But I don't know, like, lately I've had to mix into a different brand too, because it's so my hair feels so coarse it's almost like I can't even wash it, like it doesn't lather enough that I can wash it. Okay, it's not for me, all right, good, well, I'm like, why the fuck am I? Why, why, why am I doing it wrong? Like am I supposed to do something different?

Speaker 1: 2:06

It's very complex. It's like, it's just weird and like like weird so, but it's meant to strip out all the gold tones out of your hair. So, yeah, it makes it a little drier, so you just need to add like a little bit of other shampoo if you want to get that lather.

Speaker 2: 2:21

I'm going to mix it Cause of what I did was just kind of switched back and forth. Now I'm just going to mix it. I like that idea. The conditioner is fine, the purple conditioner is fine, but yeah, so there you go. Hey, everybody, aren't you glad you were here for that part of the conversation? It's so great. It's so great, we're so happy. Yeah, we were just slammed and our team that supports the podcast of zero people, so we are posting tomorrow like the mini episode we did last week.

Speaker 1: 2:56

It was so fun that real quick between the dumpsters or behind the dumpsters we haven't decided on the name yet Kind of like behind the dumpsters. But that was fun because it's it gave us like that little peek into or gave our five. The peak into what the fuck we do.

Speaker 2: 3:16

Yeah, how are?

Speaker 1: 3:17

you wired and together it's actually out there now.

Speaker 2: 3:20

If you haven't listened to it, you're going to want to go listen and just understand that there's no science behind this, that, uh, there's very little organization. Um, but thank god, we're both really creative and we have a lot to say, and so we just come together and go oh wait, we're gonna talk about this stuff and this. Yeah, there's no magic, right, there's no magic.

Speaker 1: 3:37

Really good at improv too, so and we haven't used ai yet.

Speaker 2: 3:40

To just say ai here, here's who we are. We're amazing. Give us 30 episodes that we should cover for the complex for AI.

Speaker 1: 3:49

Ai would just not get us and they'd be like it would downplay our glory.

Speaker 2: 3:54

So what I just heard you say is that everybody who uses AI really thoroughly are very simple people. That's what I heard you just say. Literally insulted everybody.

Speaker 1: 4:02

You and I are too complex for AI together.

Speaker 2: 4:06

Oh, the combination. Okay, all right, that's less insulting to our audience.

Speaker 1: 4:11

You sounded like a asshole. I just pointed it out. I pointed it out.

Speaker 2: 4:15

Sometimes you should just listen, you know what this is an episode of communication. So moving on so stop talking Exactly so, but it is Silence. You know what we're not talking, how about? So moving on. So stop talking, exactly so, but it is. So the rest of the episode of silence, if you would. You know what we're not talking, how about that?

Speaker 1: 4:29

yeah, we're in a fight everyone gets the silent treatment bitches.

Speaker 2: 4:35

I'm just right, that's right and you better not push pause on this recording. You sit there and speaking of speaking of speaking of harsh women um, today's episode is on stepmoms.

Speaker 2: 4:48

oh, holy dearest, and we can say that because we've both been them. But, in all seriousness, um, today's conversation is going to be about our experiences in the role of stepmom, um, and hopefully, through our experiences, um, for those of you who are in that space, who are perhaps in the process of getting into that space, it comes to you later in terms of, like, blending a family. So we're going to kind of talk about, like, what we have found that has helped us be effective in that role pitfalls to avoid all those kinds of things. And it's a topic that's really near and dear to both of us because, like I said, we've lived it. We've had step parents ourselves, right, we've kind of been on all ends of it.

Speaker 1: 5:29

Yeah, yes, oh my God, yes, Well, have I had multiple step parents? I mean, I guess I have. I had my stepdad, but you know, our father, the greatest father of all of all, he, I mean, gave us multiple step parents, but we never really met them or anything.

Speaker 2: 5:50

That's true, but we don't know. Shout out to all the stepmoms out there I don't know, this isn't about you, Bobby.

Speaker 1: 5:57

I heard you're awesome Like you, look super cool on Facebook. Like you know, she's like one of those grandparents. I'm just going to go on a little hand I'm just going to give.

Speaker 1: 6:07

Bobby a shout out. So I've never met Bobby in my whole entire life but I've heard lots about her through my siblings and I see her on Facebook and she's just the cutest thing she has, like this little farm and she gets the grand babies out there and they get to roll around in the dirt and jump around with goats and eat stuff out of the ground and I just think it's the fucking cutest thing ever and I or I hope that when I do become a grandma even if I don't that I'm that lady like I have like a little piece of property and have my little fucking animals and fuck everybody else. That's what I get from her, which I love. You know she's super nice. I doubt she says fuck everybody, but she's living her best life.

Speaker 2: 6:52

I feel like she does it, but who knows, right, our Facebook personas aren't always really who we are, so she could be that chick behind the scenes. But I started this conversation by saying speaking of all the obnoxious bitches out there, in jest, of course, because one of the things as we were talking about planning for this episode, one of the things we noted is like and we all know this right, step-moms get a bad rap. When you think about, um, you know, when you think about the world of movies and that kind of stuff, I I went on the rant about like every step-mom in every Disney movie Jane went to the dark side of what were some of the?

Speaker 2: 7:27

movies you listed, like Cinderella and no, no, no the horror movies, like Mommy Dearest.

Speaker 1: 7:30

Mommy, dearest Flowers in the Attic. Children of the Corn. I mean, throw Mama from the Train. Remember that bitch. I don't even know if I saw that one. Oh Goonies.

Speaker 2: 7:54

The mom on Goonies was horrible, that's true, she was. Oh, goonies, the mom on Goonies was horrible, you know, I mean she was just nasty, nasty. But then also, again, in all seriousness, to really to get into some of our own lessons learned, to the extent that they can be helpful to other folks, because I do know that. You know, for me, moving into the role of a step parent was it was intense and challenging, and I was so grateful to have under my belt my experience as a teacher and a school principal, et cetera, because I had had to be a quasi parent in a lot of roles for different kids, for different reasons over the years and obviously, understanding kids at a at a deeper level maybe right, because I've had so much experience with so many kids, but I can't imagine, without that right, stepping into that role and how hard it is. So where do we want to start? Do we want to start with some of our own experiences? Do we want to start? Do we want to start?

Speaker 1: 8:44

with some of our own experiences. Do we want to start with? What do you think? Well, you know, um geez, there's so many ways that we can start this. Well, why don't we?

Speaker 2: 8:53

start. Why don't we start with our own childhoods? Let's do a timeline thing right, like so. We all had step parents right growing up. Everybody already knows my short story is short and sweet. My stepfather was a monster. Right, go back and listen to my one of my first episodes to hear my story, and so I don't even know that I can like say a whole lot about being a step parent, because it was so overshadowed right by the violence and all the things right, so so but but you know.

Speaker 2: 9:20

So that was my experience having a step parent.

Speaker 1: 9:21

It was great it was great yeah yeah, well, yeah, so you, I, you had a double whammy. Not only did you have a parent or step parent, but you also had a predator. Um so there's that um pedophile predator triple threat. My experience having a step parent was interesting because you know this was the. This was the. The, the, the time in our, in our childhood, where my, our father had kidnapped Devin.

Speaker 2: 9:57

Because that's what fathers do.

Speaker 1: 9:59

That's what tapas do you know? And so Devin was kidnapped. My mom went into a downward spiral. She already has mental health issues, depression, all those things. And now her youngest child has been kidnapped by the person that she like. That was like her, kurt was, I think my mom's like first, like true love, you know, like she really loved him, you know, and, um, unfortunately he was not emotionally available, you know, for anyone, not even his kids, you know, yeah, for anyone, even himself, you know. And so, and that's gosh, that's one of the hardest things with relationships is one party is not emotionally available and the other one just needs that. It's so, it's so heartbreaking, but anyways. So she goes into this downward spiral and she's dating every guy in town. Like, I mean, she was on a date every night. Devin or jason and I were alone every single night for I don't know how long.

Speaker 2: 10:57

I remember and remind us how old you were.

Speaker 1: 10:58

You were little so I remember one night laying in my mom's bed just screaming at the top of my lungs I just want my mom. You know like I, that's all I wanted, and that Jason didn't know what the hell to do. You know, he was like just, and I'm like you know, I wanted, I just wanted to hang out with her, but she was always gone. So, um, she meets our stepdad, Michael, and so what made this weird is that my mom at the time was 37. Michael is 22. So she's 15 years older. Wow, Michael is 10 years older than Jason. Wow, 10. He's 12. Michael's 22. Older than Jason. Wow, 10. He's 12. Michael's 22. That's insane.

Speaker 1: 11:49

All of a sudden he's our new stepdad, like it was. Like I don't. You know, when we're kids we don't have a really good concept of time. Yeah, of course it just seemed like. And when we're little, if you remember back when you were little, five minutes seemed like five years, of course. Right, if you remember back when you were a little, five minutes seemed like five years, of course. So for me and my brain to go, it was like they met and then they were married. Was is is like for a little kid, yeah, maybe that quick. It was quick. I don't know the timeframe, but it was fucking quick.

Speaker 1: 12:19

Like all of a sudden we were in a courthouse, devin had come back, so I would say maybe six months or so, like my mom's dating and stuff, and Devin was gone for six months and then he comes back and then it was like she meets him right around the same time and then boom, they were like married. So it was crazy. And and then my mom's pregnant, you know. And then you know, but we on the step-parent side, he was in the Navy, he's 22 years old, he's partying, he's an alcoholic, he's a functioning alcoholic and she invites this chaos into more into the circus, you know, and so it's like we had a.

Speaker 1: 12:59

We had a 22 year old bachelor living in our house, like literally like somebody was talking about their music influence, and so this is one thing that I kind of like chuckled and I was like this is kind of cool was he came with boxes and boxes of albums and CDs and VHS videos, cause he would record HBO while he was at work, all that stuff, you know. And that was back in the day when we had VHSs, you know, you had a a time your recorder, and he would record movies. So it was kind of cool because he came with all this entertainment and we didn't have any of that shit. We didn't have it like I think we had a little tiny tv, but he had a bigger tv, he had a stereo system, he had all the stuff.

Speaker 1: 13:36

So in the moment we were like this is like fucking disneyland. Oh my god, this is the coolest shit ever because we have, we had all this cool music that, oh my God to his. In his defense, I mean he was really thrown into some bullshit. You know, a mentally unstable woman with three kids. The last one is like super fucked up because he just got, came back from being kidnapped for six months, so he's everywhere, um, you know, uh. And then you're moving in, a 22 year old and a and a instant father to three children, and then now only imagine like there's.

Speaker 2: 14:28

I know we'll never hear that story, right, but an interesting story would be to hear, like how he decided to marry her Right Like and his family, like what his family must've thought, like his family must've been, just like what the fuck.

Speaker 1: 14:46

All I have to say this is going to be totally terrible, but it was probably WAP. It was that WAP, I don't know, because I don't know who in their right mind would step into that and go oh please sign me up. Are you kidding me why? Your mom mom had a whole. My mom laid it down, man, like that's, like a takeoff. Evidently she is just like whoa life-changing.

Speaker 2: 15:17

Wow, because you, you know not what I know now once he settles in, I and I know, like you said, you know in the beginning it was like living with a bachelor and all the things. But at what point do you feel like he started to take on that role of stepdad, like you started to see him in that role, beyond being told he's your father? Now, now call him that, which, by the way, everybody, by the way, did happen. It's on our pitfalls list, that's a a no do.

Speaker 2: 15:43

Let's not automatically tell your children Now they will call this other person something whatever it is, even zoom says that's a big thumbs up. Even zoom was like, let me get in on this, yeah.

Speaker 1: 15:53

Well, here's the deal, and we'll revisit this, and it was an episode I don't even know right now, but we talked about that how, once they got married, my mother had sat us all down and said you need to call michael dad, and if you don't call him dad, you're going to be in trouble. And what we knew of that was we're going to get the shit beat out of us, like I mean, yeah, drive something, you know whatever. Like it's not going to be fucking fun. And so we were like, okay, hi, dad, like and, and we were also told that our dad was no longer our dad anymore which by the way he kind of opted out of like that.

Speaker 1: 16:31

Well, I mean, come on he didn't really opt into to being a father.

Speaker 2: 16:35

But to your point, like the, just the idea, right, that that's the language we would use with our children, right and we've. We won't hash it again because we've talked about, like, the roles of our moms, but in that case, like that's so, like not putting the child first, right At all.

Speaker 1: 16:51

Well, I mean, let's face it with our. Our current world is so different than when we were very true. Yeah, you know what I mean. When our parents were our age a totally different world, you know, it was it world. It was all about control and all of those things and just keep moving forward, because that's what we all do and we're all livings. And now I love the emotional intelligence awareness that's going on now and so many people are so more aware of how they show up and everything else.

Speaker 2: 17:25

So it's an awakening.

Speaker 1: 17:26

I love it so, but I digress on that it's. You know, if you want to hear that whole freaking story, we'll have to put the notes, and you know yeah, we'll put the note.

Speaker 2: 17:34

I can't remember what episode it is. I don't even know like it's, it's just whatever that happened right, yeah, exactly, at some point we got through all of that, and I do know that right. Looking back now as an adult, yeah, yeah, fondly, in terms of like what he tried to do for you guys and what his family did for you guys.

Speaker 1: 17:51

And they were great, you know, and, um, and he really did try, but I mean, I really think that over the years, um, you know, he's definitely turned into my mom's minion, you know, and and that's just how they are now turned into my mom's minion, you know, and that's just how they are now. But he would really, he would try, you know, he would try. I think that a lot of his stuff was ruled by my mom, so he didn't really have a voice. It was just more so him being my mom's, you know, you know, but there was things that he would do that was just like weird and and we were just like, why does he? And it was just, it's just his personality. Yeah, as a stepdad, I will say that, you know, he really does care about us and love us.

Speaker 1: 18:36

you know, and he tried really, really hard with what he was given, you know, and and the stage in life that he was. He was 22 years old and took on a full fucking family. So, being a 22 year old man that I believe may be on the spectrum a little bit, he has some things and stuff like that to take on. All of that he did a stellar job. Where they're at now is in their own, like weird codependent stuff. So it is what it is, but you know, he tried, he really tried, and he, he tried the hardest to be a provider. But that's not enough.

Speaker 1: 19:13

You know, I wish that he would have done a little bit more when it came to protecting us from our mom, you know, and stuff like that, because he saw the stuff, he saw it, you know, and I mean he was being abused too. You abused too, you know. I mean, let's be honest. So I'm sure that he in his own right didn't know what to do, but it was crazy, but I think he did, I think he did his best, you know. That's, that's well.

Speaker 2: 19:37

I think that's a nice segue then to us talking about kind of our experience and you know what, some of the things that we can put forward to our audience in terms of how to think about being in this role and, again, whether you're on the cusp of going into this role, whether you've been in it for a while, and you know, excuse me, that you're struggling, that your children are struggling.

Speaker 2: 19:57

You know, whatever the circumstances, in one of our more recent episodes we talked about this idea of like it's never too late to make amends with your children. It's never too late to be a different parent, even if they're adults. Right, if you, because in that episode I know we talked about like you got to be the parent that they're going to want to choose eventually because once they turn 18. So, you know, when Joe and I for us right this idea of like being a step parent, honestly, it started that we started talking about that almost as soon as we started dating, because from very early on, when we started dating, we knew we were going to be together. And you know, for those who haven't caught up, joe and I went to high school together. We dated briefly our senior year. I broke his heart, and he then spent 20 years, you know, wandering the earth and waiting for me to come back, and so that's exactly what happened.

Speaker 2: 20:48

So when? Yeah, so when we got, when we reconnected, we knew almost immediately and you know, he has four biological children. I have two biological children. That's the only time you'll hear me talk of them in that way, because from the get go we have both said you know, this doesn't work if they're not ours. Right, it does not work if we move forward with your kids and my kids, from the get go it has to be ours.

Speaker 2: 21:12

Now we can say that behind the scenes, but with the children themselves. Right, you have to. They have to catch up. Right to your point about being told here's your new daddy, right, but you got to let the kids catch up. The kids have to come to that on their own right. And so we never, ever, got caught up in. Like, you'll refer to me as even your step-parent, let alone your mother. God only knows, or that's your step-sister or that's your right Like.

Speaker 2: 21:38

For us it was about they will use the language when they're ready to use the language. And the cool thing is, now that you know, 10 years later, they don't even usually refer to each other as step-siblings. They say that's my brother, that's my sister. Right, and we never asked them to do that that was letting them and letting their relationships evolve right. So for us, out of the gate, that was one of the big rules.

Speaker 2: 22:03

The second big rule was to never, ever, speak ill of their other parent in their presence.

Speaker 2: 22:09

And we've actually, I feel like, done a good job of like we haven't spent a lot of time in 10 years talking negatively about their other parents anyway, right, like those relationships are separate from our marriage, right, but certainly making sure that there's never anything negative right said about the other parent and, in fact, quite the opposite, an intention to look for the positives, to say out loud, right, about the other parent with our children, so that they see that, you know, and in the end we're all a team, right, like, and that's, that's how it had to be from the beginning, remembering that when we got married, our kids were the two oldest Lainey had just graduated high school, brandon was a year or two out of high school, and then Jonah and Montana were in high school, sid was in middle school, cammie was little, she was in early elementary school.

Speaker 2: 23:04

So that was the range of ages that we had when we got married and that was helpful on some level, I think, just because, since some were already young adults, and then we had Kami, who was really little right. There was a different relationship you developed with each of them right Out of the gate. So that's kind of the way we started right, and I can talk more about some of the things that we've done along the way. But how about you, cause you've had that experience as well.

Speaker 1: 23:27

Yeah, I've had that experience twice and the you know I wish that. You know, obviously they weren't successful and you know amongst other reasons, but you know that was a huge part that me, as the parent that I am, kind of took for granted, thinking that the other person was going to be the same way and not having the conversation like you and Joe did, and so and just like basing it off of this is what we do on a regular basis. You know, in the home and and everything's combined and everything's happening, you start to see, oh okay, we need to have conversations and we need to talk about this, but now you know it's. It gets to the point where you know, if you don't talk about it beforehand, get ahead of it or and or handle it right when the first time it happens, and and talk about it and come up with the, the answer to how you're going to handle it, moving forward, you won't be successful, because every single time is going to be oh well, this was the case this time, and whoever is getting defensive because usually it's the person of the child that did something wrong or whatever You're just picking on my child, I mean, I've been through all of that you know back and forth both ways.

Speaker 1: 24:46

My child, I mean, I've been through all of that. You know back and forth both ways, and so that would that's what I would say is, you know you're giving really great advice is like really having that conversation and talking about how you're, how you are going to handle things, how you are going to speak about the other parents and not about them. You know those are so important because you know I remember I've always been a big believer in you you don't even speak to your children. You know, especially about your dislikes or or points with the other person. You don't talk to your children about that. It's none of their business and has nothing to do with them, and as soon as you start telling them these things, then it does become their problem.

Speaker 2: 25:24

Yeah, their relationship with their other parent is their relationship with their other parent, and what I always say is like kids need a healthy relationship with both parents.

Speaker 2: 25:34

no, matter what the adults have done to each other. Frankly, it's completely irrelevant, right Short of putting people in danger, right. Like obviously there's always a line, right, if somebody's being the shit out of you, you're going to be worried about them being with your children. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about typical, right, kind of more typical situations. But at the end of the day, they need that healthy relationship and you can despise that other parent, right, and that can't be relevant. It just literally can't be relevant in a kid's relationship.

Speaker 1: 26:03

Right, exactly, and so it's. And I always made myself a promise, because you know, again, back to our childhood, you know, and you know, everything that I do is based off of my childhood. I feel I have, I have tracked my personal lineage and my timeframe of life. So, um, but just being able to give them a voice you know the kids have voiced too and and you know, I'm not, I'm not one of those people that's like it's not fair, but you gotta have some type of equal rights in your own home when it comes to being able to talk to somebody and and bring something up and oh, don't do that, I'll do this part, and you only do that part, and it's just, it's just silliness. So, um, just being able to not have those, um, gosh, what am I? I'm double standards that's the word I'm looking for, you know, not standards with, with, with the kids, so that everybody has the same rules.

Speaker 1: 27:03

Because it was like for me, in my experience, the way that I parent and everything else is is great, but, yeah, not only because of my kids, I, I want to do my own thing over here. So it was like wild banshees. And then I have these kids that are obedient, you know, and it's like, okay, you know, so you, oh, you don't want a parent, that's what you're saying, I got, I got it. So it's like we, okay, you know, so you, oh, you don't want a parent, that's what you're saying, I got it. So it's like we just had to deal with the chaos when it was there, and then, and then everything would, the dust would settle, and then it was chaos, and then it would, the dust would settle. So it was never like routine, it was just whatever, whatever emotional decision that they wanted to make, and I was like okay, you know well that's the big challenge, right Cause it's.

Speaker 2: 27:48

You know, this isn't as much about how you blend a family as it is about we're really focusing on being in that role of step-mom, but, um, and you know, I can speak for myself step-mom, cause I've never been a stepfather, right, you can have the similarities but, um, but I think to what you're saying, right, so it's like you know, we talked before, right, how, like I said, how we would talk about the other parents et cetera, but we also talked about parenting in general. Right, we dated for a few years ahead of time and in that time, had opportunities to kind of practice how we would co-parent, right, which is why, when people do things so fast and move so quickly, I'm always like it gives me a little bit of just anxiety, because I'm like, okay, you got to give yourself time to practice before it's full time in the lives of these kids.

Speaker 1: 28:32

Right.

Speaker 2: 28:33

And we would. I mean, we were so careful when we started dating Jane that, like like we, we made intentional decisions about when we would start holding hands in front of our children, when we would kiss each other in front of our children, all the things because we knew they were still coming off of. Especially the four youngest ones were coming off of, you know the you know their parents being divorced right.

Speaker 2: 28:57

So so we were really intentional about all of those things and, and, to your point, a big part of those conversations in advance were how we were going to co-parent, because we parented very differently. There were some similarities, don't get me wrong, but we definitely had different parenting styles and we kind of had to have conversations early on about what would and wouldn't work right, like what I like would be a deal breaker for me, or what would be a deal breaker for him. And and and be honest with ourselves in terms of like, we can't get married if we can't figure this out, because we're not going to do that to our children. Right, this isn't going to be a like, come along for the ride of our marriage. Right, this is we're trying to build a new family and so we have to, you know, factor all of that in and so you know, so some of the like kind of to do's right, which none of this is going to shock anybody, right? But it's things like give yourself time and in that time, allow your like, give, give your kids, your, your both your biological kids and your new children the opportunity to start building trust with you, develop a rapport with you. What's their relationship going to look like with you, right, and then you know kind of how you're going to communicate with each other, what they can expect and having conversations about that, right, and even like this idea of us kind of figuring out how we were going to co-parent together and then saying it out loud to them, right. And one of the things they knew is that this is never going to be you know his children and my children, and so it's never going to be well, if they did something wrong, you deal with that. That's your kid, right.

Speaker 2: 30:30

It was always doing things together, because for both of us, we understood, like, if the kids saw each other being, you know, getting different consequences or getting different even gifts, or getting even different positives, right. Then it was that whole like, okay, who's got the power here? Because if one parent gives more to their kid or the other like, which is why, from the get-go, it had to be our right. So those are some of the kind of to-dos things that we did out of the gate that have allowed us, 10 years later, to have a what I would call a highly effective blended family, right, it wasn't messy. At times, of course, it was messy and it was hard and again, especially as our children dealt with like the reality of our parents are never going to get back together again all of that, like all of that stuff, was there and hurtful and hard, but we were able to navigate it because of the some of the things we agreed on upfront.

Speaker 1: 31:23

Yeah, no, and that's and that's exactly how you should set it up is. You know that communication is so important at the beginning. So then, that way you can carry that through and remind each other of the promises that you made each other and everything else. Hold each other accountable to that. And that's the biggest thing is the accountability for being a parent. You know, if you haven't made that decision on how you're going to parent, you can't hold each other accountable to that because you never agreed to it. You know, and that's and that's the biggest you know, choice that I made, you know that I would have changed in those, in those moments, and you know we're doing it out of.

Speaker 1: 32:00

Not only is it convenience, you know, because, oh, we're both parents and blah, blah, blah, but it's, it's being scared adults trying to do this on our own and trying to figure it out and going, yeah, we love each other and we want to try to make this work.

Speaker 1: 32:14

But you know, one of the other big things that um, that really um, you should look out for and and and just pay attention to really, is how do the kids interact with each other? What are those relationships like and stuff like that Give them the opportunity to get to know the other kids before, to where you can figure out the little like who likes who you know and who's going to get along and stuff like that. Because if there's turmoil between the kids the whole time, there's never going to be a good adult relationship coming out of that. And then it just fails because now you guys are fighting about the kids, because the kids are fighting about them and you know they're taking my space and blah, blah, blah, like it sucks, you know, and it never goes away because it's always there. And then you know whoever's kids are rotating from one parent to the other. You know timing, it's always something and it's like you know if, if none of the kids get along, it is just going to be a lot. It's going to be.

Speaker 2: 33:14

just keep that in mind, you know that's a good point, those relationships with each other. And we were fortunate. You know we've been called the Brady Bunch more than one time because we have six kids. But you know, when we first got married, our, you know, the very first year out of the gate, joe was here in San Diego.

Speaker 2: 33:33

So we lived here full time with the two children who were here with their mom, because the his two youngest and again I'm saying it that way for people to understand because I see them as his but um lived here in San Diego with their mom, um, and so that year I spent two weeks a month at San Diego and two weeks a month in Virginia, because Montana and Sid stayed with their dad, because we knew it was a transition year, um, so so you know, jonah and Cammie got kind of full-time dad, if you will, I.

Speaker 2: 34:04

I mean they went back and forth and they got me sometimes, but sometimes not me, and that actually worked out really well because then they were, so they were actually getting to know Joe again, because Joe had been in the Navy for Kami's whole life, by that point, and you know we saw him on holidays and summers, right, like it wasn't a regular you know regular parent, if you will, and a full time parent, right Everyday parent, and so there were times where I wasn't there, which also was good, because they needed that Right, they needed their time, and that's another kind of thing to do, Right, remember that even though we're going into it, as they're our kids, we know that they need time with that parent.

Speaker 1: 34:41

Individual time is so important.

Speaker 2: 34:43

Exactly, but because of that. So Montana and Sid would come for holidays and they would spend time together, but they didn't have to live together Like that's what I'm getting at. We didn't have all six kids under our roof at one time living together full-time ever. Right, that never happened Over the 10 years. It was like we had that for a year and then Montana and Sid were with us full-time. Jonah came for the breaks and then interspersed where Ray and then Eleni because, again, young adults at that point. So they kind of came in and out. Eleni was in college, she came during breaks, you know the whole thing, um, so so that kind of helped. But to your point, I think it helped on some level just because they didn't all of a sudden get stuck in a house together and have to figure it out, right?

Speaker 1: 35:24

And that's crazy. Yeah, like it's. You think about the. What was it? The parent trap?

Speaker 2: 35:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 35:30

You know, like all of a sudden, we're all just moving in together and it's like, oh, wow, you're not. No, that wasn't the parent trap, it was um, oh, what's the other one?

Speaker 2: 35:40

it was like the one with like eight million years, like they had. They had the gazillion kids.

Speaker 1: 35:44

I know which one you're talking about, but I can't you know what I'm talking about so, like you know, they all just move in together and and it's like, oh my gosh, the turmoil between all the kids. That's real shit. That's real shit because you know we act different when the new spouse is around and we're going to keep, you know, we want to keep the balance and oh, everybody's happy and blah blah, but you know we're not if we're not sitting down talking to the kids about how they feel, about what's going on, oh so and so left the towel on the bathroom floor like for the 15th time. And mom, you know, you know, like that, okay, but there's new kids in the house and we got you know, and so it's like old, new, old rules mixed with new rules and we got a flag.

Speaker 1: 36:20

If I would have, left the towel on the floor, you would have killed me, but call me over there, you're okay with it. And so they start getting this resentment because now you're parenting different and treating people. You love them more than me because they're so and so's kids. Oh, my god, ah there's so many.

Speaker 2: 36:38

No, I love what you're doing because you're bringing up all the different angles right again. We said in the oh my God, some of the things that we said already. You know other kinds of things that are that become mainstays. Right, in terms of how you handle all of that while they're trying to figure out how to blend together. Right, avoiding negative comparisons. Right Between them, between the parents, all the things. Right, like not, not, not comparing them to each other, which, by the way, is not easy to do. Right, at that point I had been raising, raising girls, so it was my first time with boys, and boys are smelly and but you know, messy and all the things, and they know this.

Speaker 2: 37:27

We talk a lot about this, um, and so I had to adjust to that, because I was like, because I think it's different when you like raise a boy from birth, right right, you don't. And all of a sudden you've got like this, you know, smelly teenager. And you're like what am I? And I remember montana and sid struggling with that like yeah they're like he's so gross, right, oh yeah, so uh figure it out yeah, but you got to think about it this way too.

Speaker 1: 37:51

You know, he's probably like oh, I have a sister right now, or you know they're little or whatever. And then all of a sudden, you know, you know two more sisters.

Speaker 1: 38:01

Oh, jesus you know, and here we go and they're different and they think different and they say different things and this is, you know, it's just so much all at once. It's an overload of of stimuli and it's it's them navigating through all of that stuff too. So, exactly as much as we would all like it to be, you know, the brady bunch and happy, go, lucky and all those things, we really have to take in consideration the kids, the effect on the kids, and and and how we can best support them in it, cause this is a decision that we're making as adults, that we're doing it to them.

Speaker 1: 38:33

It's going to be great, yeah, this is going to be fun.

Speaker 2: 38:36

Guys watch and they're like no, yeah, you watch, right, like. Like you said, you have to create that space and you brought up in what your comments just now, a couple of the other like pitfalls to avoid, right, and one of them is, like you can't ignore, like in your, in your effort to make the stepchildren build the rapport and build the trust with them, you can't ignore the biological children, right, like. And so one of the I've said this example many times to people that you know we were so intentional from day one, right, and so recognized that we were doing this to them, right, and so we had to allow for that, we had to allow some space for that, right, we had to not be, as you know, I don't know, set in our own way, set on our own rules and stuff, right, like, we had to give them a chance to melt down and give them the space to have their emotions and all the things. But that also included, like I remember vividly, like you know, we've lived in one, two, three, four houses, four or five houses since we were married and in each one I have like, down to the number, ensured that there were an equal number of pictures of every child. Oh, my God, I like when we lived in Washington and Jonah and Kami were coming up to visit and breaks and stuff, I would make sure that in the room that Jonah was sleeping in there were pictures of him and his mom.

Speaker 2: 40:02

Yeah, like this idea that we don't want you to feel like that when you come to the family that you're, you have to turn your back on the other part of the family, right, like we're all family. And that doesn't mean that we're besties, because we're not, but it does mean that we're all. When we say family, we mean everybody, right, not just, oh no, just our family. And I actually remember. That reminds me, oh my gosh, like it takes time. And here's the indicator that just popped into my head. So we had been married maybe three years, I guess, when Montana and Jonah were graduating, because they both I don't know three years when they and I know three years when they, and then five. So it was almost a five-year mark actually, now that I think about it.

Speaker 2: 40:43

Um, and then so at the five-year ish mark, sid was graduating, and the reason I remember this moment is that we were on, you know, graduation at her school, high school, on the football field. Everything was over. We're all down on the field taking pictures right and, um, you, you know Montana's grandma's there and you know my sister, ann, is there. You know, we're all there, we're taking pictures, and at one point we're like taking family pictures and Kami kind of steps aside and we were like, what are you doing? And she was like, oh no, that's your family. And I was like, babe, your family, we're all family. And so she came right back into it.

Speaker 2: 41:22

But my point in that is that even with as careful as we had been, as intentional as we had been, in her little brain at the time I shouldn't say little anymore, but I guess she was 11, 12, right at the time she still had that like thought or that understanding that you know, oh, that's her grandma, that's their family, that's, um, and now she refers to as Nana, just like they do, right, because Nana comes and spends time with us and all that kind of stuff. So so you, you just have to be so intentional about calling that stuff out right and being really careful about it. And the other thing I want to say is, like, in terms of like pitfalls to avoid, is you in all of that, you still have to take care of the two of you right as a couple, right Like you still have to like make sure that you're taking care of the two of you, which is really hard to do in the midst of all that.

Speaker 1: 42:13

Right, right, yeah, and that's. And you've got to remember that you're in a new relationship, a new marriage. And you know, typically when people get married, you know they're or the stereotypical marriage is young, zero children, haven't really lived life together yet. Now you're going to go live life and then in a couple of years start adding kids. Not I'm jumping into a full-fledged, you know dysfunctional family right off the bat and here we go, let's start the party. Yeah, that's not your stereotypical American dream wedding. Yeah, so you know, knowing that and going into that, be prepared people. Yeah, because there's many different levels. It's not just how you two are going to work together and parent together, it's how is everybody going to function as a family unit? Exactly Because that's what it is.

Speaker 1: 43:05

Yeah, and the outskirts, because you mentioned something earlier and I wanted to bring this up. You said you know we knew that we weren't going to talk bad about the other parent and they wouldn't about us, and blah, blah, blah. You know I know what. Probably wasn't easy at the very beginning, but you know you work on that relationship too. You have to bring in the other parents into that fold, because if you don't have cooperation with them, the other stuff won't work, because it could be, you know, either intentionally driving a wedge or unintentionally driving a wedge. You know, unless you're not, if you're not communicating on how things are working within each other's home and and even trying to mirror that. So then that way there's more consistency. That's the thing that the kids you know thrive on is consistency throughout. Exactly Like you said, you had pictures of Jonah and his mom.

Speaker 1: 43:59

Why wouldn't you? You know like that makes sense to me, but I know that. I know there's plenty of women and or men that don't want to see their spouse's ex in pictures and they take a big stink about it. Who gives a shit?

Speaker 2: 44:15

It's still there. For me, it's about like why are you threatened? Yes, why in the world would you be threatened?

Speaker 1: 44:22

yeah and for us it's like blah, blah, whatever, who cares?

Speaker 2: 44:26

exactly and we've said this many times across episodes this idea that like our kids to know that, no matter what happens to the romantic relationship, family doesn't have to be gone right.

Speaker 2: 44:38

Because the adults decide to get divorced doesn't mean that family goes away.

Speaker 2: 44:42

Family is what you make of it, right, and that's kind of what you're describing. And yes, there's a whole other episode, I think, out there for us to have a conversation about in terms of the co-parenting right, the co-parenting with the other parents, so we can put it in that and come back, because we can have a long conversation about that as well, right, but you're right, it's it's the two of you, it's the family unit, it's the people outside who influence it, right, and how you create consistency for your, for your kiddos, across all of that Two other. You know, as I kind of look at the time here, two other things that I want to put on the table, too are, like, um, uh, this idea of like show interest in who their other parent is Right In terms of like family rituals and traditions and that kind of stuff. When Joe and I got married, he was like we didn't really have a lot of traditions, right, like I, whereas I'm a very big like, there are certain things.

Speaker 1: 45:32

I'm like.

Speaker 2: 45:34

I got my own traditions Right, so we had to kind of start to do those and then feel them out. Right With the kids. Because what I didn't again, what you don't want to do, is make the kids feel like you're replacing anything, right? But you also message very much so that it's okay for them to be different. It's okay for Christmas to look one way when you're here and another way when you're at your other parent's house, right? Or when we go to have Christmas with a grandparent, that's going to look different from this too, right, like it's okay for it to be different. And it's okay for us to celebrate on different days, which we had to do for years, right, because you know you did and it's not that, oh, you went to you know mom for Christmas and so we don't have Christmas. It's that now you get two Christmases, which, by the way, is at least one of the bonuses of right?

Speaker 1: 46:16

oh, it really is parents yeah it really is. It really is unless you have a, a parent that you know gets mad that you weren't there on that holiday, so you don't get anything um, I feel like the story there, but yes, there's a major story behind that, but yeah, oh my god yeah, see, that's the kind of stuff and I know you and I are so synergetic like that.

Speaker 2: 46:38

We look at that, we're like why? Why would you do that?

Speaker 1: 46:41

But there's so many people out in the world that it totally makes sense for Like, yeah, I mean come on, and so it's it's, it's the it's, it's totally the perspective, and hopefully we can help change perspectives into more positive thinking and all those things.

Speaker 2: 46:56

Well, it gives people different ways to think about it. Right, because at the end of the day, we're developing adults right that we want to be good people who give back to their world. And we don't do that right If we put them just through the worst of the worst. And that kind of brings me to probably what's my final pitfall to avoid, and that is that, out of the gate, you have to remember you are not there to and you never will replace the other parent, right Like you can't come into the role of step-mom, thinking to yourself I hope one day they'll call me mom because they have a mother right, for better or for worse, they have a mother and for better or for worse, they have a mother.

Speaker 2: 47:39

And I know all contexts are different, and so for me, my mantra has always been I am, you know, even early on, especially with cammy, because she was a little one what should I call you? Right like she would ask that question and my answer would be you should call me whatever you want to call me, and you know that that I am another adult in your life who loves you and wants to be a resource for you. That's who I am in your world. So when people say who is that right? You can refer to me as your stepmom, you can refer to me as Janice, you can refer like.

Speaker 2: 48:08

Whatever you want to do, you do, but at the core, I am just another adult who loves you and wants to be a resource to you, and it happens that I'm also married to your father and we all are a family together. Right, and I think that's one of the mistakes people make is, in their head, feeling like it's not a win or a success unless they call me mom, unless they like me better than they like their mom, unless they like and and if that's what you're sending out to do, you are doing it wrong. On the sake of that kid, you're just doing it wrong.

Speaker 1: 48:42

That's as clear as I can say it and the reason for that is and I know this is going to be hard to hear yeah, but it's not about us, it's about them.

Speaker 1: 48:53

Yep, that's it and what they're comfortable with and when they're ready for things and everything else, and you can't force those things. And you know, going back to the, you know being forced to call somebody dad when you know they're not dad and being told your dad has gone, like that fucks you up. Yep, I will never forget that day. Yeah, or ever. Ever in my whole entire life. Will I ever forget being lined up, being told that ever?

Speaker 2: 49:19

and in the end, doesn't it really send the message that those titles don't mean shit? Yeah, if they can just be easily plucked away and moved around right now, this person is now, that person is okay, so it doesn't really mean anything, is what you're saying to me exactly, and that's, of course, not the message we would want our children to have. I love that. That. I think you're exactly right. Right, that that's it's, that it's at the core about them. And if you're unsure, you can ask yourself how do I feel, like they'll feel or what will they think. Or, even better, you can ask them. Yeah, right, you can ask them, and it's hard to do and it's uncomfortable and you have a pit in your stomach and they don't like it either, because it's uncomfortable and they probably won't feel like crying and all the things, but what they'll remember is that you asked them Right and that's that's, I think that's that'll be a core memory forever.

Speaker 1: 50:09

And and you know, and I know that you know, um, when, uh, back in the fall with Thanksgiving, you know, I know that that will forever be a core memory for Chase, when I gave her the choice to have that guest to Thanksgiving and not and let her make the choice, and she'll never forget that. That's exactly right, ever, ever, ever. So they remember good things and they remember the bad things too. So it's, let's try to make those core memories good more than bad.

Speaker 2: 50:37

Well, and it goes back to, for me, final thought, that similar final thought to a few episodes, which is, be the parent they will choose eventually, because if you decide to make it all about you in those years and you decide to do what makes you happy and kind of like they'll, they'll figure it out, they'll get over it, they'll be fine. They won't choose you later. Yeah, they won't choose you later. Yeah, right, they won't choose you later. And so be the parent you want them to choose, right yeah, now and later exactly, exactly, all right, I love it.

Speaker 2: 51:07

Yeah, now everybody knows, go forth be stepmothers. You're welcome, so great do it too.

Speaker 1: 51:15

Yeah, if you're having trouble, just listen to to our podcast.

Speaker 2: 51:18

We'll give you some tips Exactly, but with that in mind, last thought, of course, as always, like share and subscribe, we'd love to actually increase to like 20 viewers on a regular or listeners on Racist. It'd be cool, right, It'd be cool. And in the notes of the podcast is our email, because we'd love to hear your stories. If you have a step parent story that you think would be really important for people to hear, whether it's a don't do what I did story or a this actually turned out really well for me story, we would love to be able to share those as well. Our experiences obviously are incredible, but we also know there's a lot of people in the world and there's probably a few other incredible experiences, so we would love to have all of the things. So, like, share, subscribe, do all the things.

Speaker 1: 52:03

Yes, peace out yeah, see you guys later. Bye.